Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 00:03 UTC

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[01:13:51]

duiu:

Is there anyway to schedule mythtv recordings from a windows box aside from installing the windows port, or doing some form of remote login to the linux machine?

[01:14:09]

wagnerrp:

mythweb

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wagnerrp:

although i suppose you could consider pulling up a web page a form of remote login

[01:16:20]

duiu:

but it's not XDMCP or VLC, so it's nice. thanks :)

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** sphery thinks he meant VNC **

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[01:32:06]

i-pink:

hii

[01:32:11]

i-pink:

i get erorr

[01:32:29]

i-pink:

cannot login to database

[01:32:51]

sphery:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-6.html#ss6.2

[01:32:56]

i-pink:

some one can help me?

[01:33:34]

sphery:

i-pink: see the URL above

[01:33:52]

i-pink:

is not a login to remote media center.

[01:33:59]

** kormoc sighs **

[01:34:59]

i-pink:

<sphery> i use ubuntu

[01:35:04]

sphery:

i-pink: if that doesn't help, then you probably need to find someone who uses your particular distro to help

[01:35:16]

sphery:

so, you might want to try #ubuntu-mythtv

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[01:36:37]

i-pink:

i dont make nothing, because the URL is not talk about ubuntu

[01:36:37]

Gumby:

i-pink, I suggest you actually bother to read the page posted by sphery. it has the exact info you need

[01:37:14]

** kormoc sighs **

[01:38:28]

i-pink:

is normal to connect to the database if i want media center on my computer?

[01:38:29]

sphery:

i-pink: the people in #ubuntu-mythtv will know how MySQL (including root and mythtv DB user accounts) are configured and what steps of the normal install have been done for you already, so they would know far more than I about how to fix your problem.

[01:39:06]

Gumby:

i-pink, mythtv uses a database for almost all of its settings. so yes, its normal to connect to a database

[01:39:07]

sphery:

MythTV requires a database... Everything (except video, music, and images) is stored in the database

[01:39:18]

JEDIDIAH__:

it's not an ubuntu problem, you just need to know how to reset the mythtv/mythconverg password.

[01:39:44]

JEDIDIAH__:

learn about mysql and then promptly forget all about it.

[01:40:40]

i-pink:

but i am normal woman – not computer engineering

[01:40:41]

JEDIDIAH__:

A myth system is lots of little bits that are mostly not myth.

[01:41:08]

JEDIDIAH__:

normal women in the corporate world connect to oracle databases all the time.

[01:43:16]

sphery:

i-pink: if you want an Ubuntu-centric walkthrough of getting started with MythTV, I'm sure there are some on the Ubuntu wiki.

[01:43:41]

i-pink:

i am use the computer to see movies and internet

[01:43:45]

JEDIDIAH__:

the ubuntu channel gave it to her.

[01:44:52]

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[01:49:02]

PMantis:

Hi guys (pastebin to follow), Fringe was supposed to record last night on 31–1 (local fox OTA). About 4 minutes before it was to record, I saw line after line of "Can't find channel blah blah". Fringe apparently recorded, but then when I went to play from the frontend, "could not find file". :(

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[01:52:49]

benklop_:

hello

[01:53:25]

sphery:

PMantis: that's normal... we tune the channel, then wait for data and write all data we get... if the card never gives us data, we have a 0-byte file (which then gets deleted)

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[01:54:07]

benklop_:

i'm trying to use mythwelcome and mythshutdown and such to save some energy, and i'm having some little issues.

[01:54:39]

benklop_:

i've followed the guides in the wiki, and I am able to manually tell my backend to power on whenever

[01:55:00]

PMantis:

sphery: A show recorded just before this on the same channel and it was fine. A show recorded just afterward on a diff channel..

[01:55:02]

benklop_:

works great as far as hardware is concerned

[01:55:04]

sphery:

PMantis: not much we can do, though, when the network is broadcasting garbage at the time the show starts... happened to me once, too. Terminator: TSCC recorded but had all sorts of issues at the end, then Prison Break (on the same channel immediately after) didn't record because the station sent out garbage

[01:55:07]

PMantis:

Here's my pastebin: http://pastebin.com/d3175fd5

[01:55:41]

sphery:

in my case, another myth user also using an antenna and OTA had the exact same thing happen

[01:55:55]

PMantis:

sphery: Hmmm

[01:56:13]

sphery:

PMantis: yeah, it means that they were sending out garbage in one of the "important ATSC" tables

[01:56:17]

sphery:

NIT or whatever

[01:56:25]

benklop_:

but "mythshutdown -t" gives me an error, "QTime::fromString: Parameter out of range"

[01:56:55]

PMantis:

sphery: by "it means" are you referring to the data in my paste?

[01:57:01]

sphery:

PMantis: yeah

[01:57:08]

sphery:

Could not find channel 31_1 in TVCT

[01:57:33]

PMantis:

An odd thing is... it's 31–1 in SD, and on my myth setup

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[01:58:38]

benklop_:

if I enable logging (most) I see this : 2009-02–11 18:56:28.666 Mythshutdown: wakeup time given is: ti56e_t

[01:58:49]

sphery:

PMantis: since we stop the (already tuned-in) capture card and start again, when it tried to tune Fringe, there wasn't enough info to find it, so it did the best it could and waited (hopefully) for data, but it never came

[01:59:10]

benklop_:

I can't figure out why it's trying to set the wakeup time to ti56e_t....

[01:59:11]

sphery:

on the bright side, it won't happen again for quite some time (unless your Fox affiliate is completely inept)

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[02:00:01]

benklop_:

I have the wakeup time format set to time_t (which is what its supposed to be..)

[02:00:33]

PMantis:

sphery: I occasionally have a 0B file showing up in mythweb.. by occasionally, I'd guess 2–3 a week, on varied channels.

[02:01:07]

PMantis:

sphery: What really sux is I'm into Fringe. Fortunately, we still have a DishDVR

[02:02:07]

PMantis:

On a side note, I was able to change jumpers on the HD inside my DishNetwork DVR500, plug in a USB adapter, and play the recordings on Myth! :0D

[02:02:09]

PMantis:

:-D

[02:02:38]

benklop_:

that's pretty cool

[02:02:54]

benklop_:

I assume you had to remove the HD though,

[02:03:16]

benklop_:

not just made the dish dvr a networked dvr that myth can get to..

[02:03:25]

PMantis:

benklop_: No, *just* enough room to unplug and plug in cables with it still in the box.

[02:04:09]

benklop_:

cool.. but still it's not a networked thing right? because that would be pretty neat too..

[02:04:13]

PMantis:

benklop_: Oh, I see what you mean... yeah, needed a physical powerdown, and connection to the mythtv box do read the HD directly.

[02:04:29]

PMantis:

s/do/to

[02:04:52]

benklop_:

okay, yeah. when i saw you say something about switching jumpers I got kinda excited..

[02:05:14]

benklop_:

thought they had a switch to allow you to get access to the box or something like that

[02:05:38]

PMantis:

haha, jumpers on the HD.. master/slave/cable select... couldn't see the labels w/o breaking the warranty seal, so I just did it trial and error.

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[02:06:29]

PMantis:

benklop_: Anyway, we're really OT. :)

[02:08:02]

benklop_:

yeah... I'm looking for info on an arror mythshutdown is throwing

[02:08:14]

benklop_:

http://rafb.net/p/frbEKX87.html has the log

[02:08:48]

benklop_:

It's saying I specified the time format as "ti56e_t"

[02:09:03]

benklop_:

but I have checked, and everywhere I can see it says "time_t"

[02:10:18]

PMantis:

Hmmm, That doesn't mean much to me..

[02:10:47]

PMantis:

BTW, anyone know why my myth setup uses "RecordingOnly" instead of "Recording", so I can't watch the show while it's recording?

[02:11:20]

benklop_:

PMantis: not sure what you mean

[02:11:22]

PMantis:

TVRec(4): Changing from None to RecordingOnly

[02:11:29]

sphery:

you can always watch a recording in progress... just go to Watch Recordings

[02:11:47]

sphery:

that's all internal state keeping stuff

[02:12:01]

sphery:

just start it from watch recordings and it will play

[02:13:20]

PMantis:

Oh sure, but if a frontend tries to tune to that channel, I would expect it to "piggyback" on the same tuner if it can... so if 3 frontends want to watch the same channel, it shouldn't lock 3 tuner cards...

[02:14:11]

sphery:

benklop_: according to http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythwelcome#MythShutdown_program there is no -t arg to mythshutdown

[02:14:28]

sphery:

benklop_: you should try with --debug

[02:15:04]

benklop_:

sphery: according to mythshutdown --help there is..

[02:15:32]

benklop_:

it's supposed to set the startup time to the next recording time

[02:15:41]

sphery:

ok, wiki may well be out of date (wouldn't be the first time :)

[02:16:08]

benklop_:

basically, my box was not coming back up, and I am running that to check why

[02:16:22]

sphery:

benklop_: yeah, there is a -t in current -fixes...

[02:16:49]

benklop_:

and it's trying to use an invalid time format, even though all the configuration pages I can see have it set to "time_t"

[02:18:47]

benklop_:

sphery: just checked, and it's set to "time_t" in the database

[02:19:53]

sphery:

benklop_: I don't use it (as I'd rather waste power than risk a failed boot when I'm traveling), so I can't help

[02:20:11]

sphery:

but, still, try runing with --debug and see if it says anything more

[02:20:55]

benklop_:

ok, i will.

[02:21:15]

benklop_:

think it could be a bug?

[02:21:30]

benklop_:

or more likely just a settings error?

[02:22:13]

sphery:

iamlindoro: actually, GreyFoxx was just waiting for me to submit #6255 so that he could change things enough to break my patch so I'd have to update it

[02:22:33]

iamlindoro:

So inconsiderate

[02:22:44]

GreyFoxx:

hahah

[02:23:03]

GreyFoxx:

I would have done it last night but my laptop broke (just fixed it)

[02:23:08]

GreyFoxx:

and today was too busy at work :)

[02:24:40]

iamlindoro:

I'm really glad you went with the merged view

[02:25:00]

sphery:

have you already installed it?

[02:25:17]

iamlindoro:

no, not yet, just reading the log

[02:25:45]

sphery:

I just booted my dev box to try to catch up with you and you were just faking...

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[02:26:51]

iamlindoro:

I'll be here all night resolving stuff w/ my existing patches

[02:27:00]

GreyFoxx:

Sorry :)

[02:27:11]

iamlindoro:

s'ok, I'll probably put it off 'til the weekend

[02:27:25]

iamlindoro:

(and maybe anduin will have committed one of them by then and I will be off the hook :) )

[02:27:25]

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[02:28:00]

hadees:

anyone using the Intel DG45FC?

[02:32:09]

sphery:

iamlindoro: what happened to date night?

[02:32:16]

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[02:32:19]

sphery:

or was it a date with a myth box?

[02:32:28]

iamlindoro:

It's on its way

[02:33:15]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: I can see we're going to need an ability to delete SG dirs for other hosts (i.e. users will invariable /not/ delete Videos group with a host before decomissioning/changing hostnames)

[02:33:26]

iamlindoro:

!trout GreyFoxx Change-all-the-same-DB-queries-as-me

[02:33:26]

** MythLogBot slaps GreyFoxx with a Change-all-the-same-DB-queries-as-me trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[02:34:30]

benklop_:

is there a websvn or something for mythtv?

[02:34:39]

iamlindoro:

svn.mythtv.org

[02:35:50]

iamlindoro:

Five files with major fixes to make, could have been worse

[02:36:07]

sphery:

ooh... r19979... Only 21 commits to 20K

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[02:37:24]

iamlindoro:

I think Anduin will get it, because he's so very good looking and smart and capable and always looks at other people patches

[02:37:35]

sphery:

heh

[02:38:00]

Anduin:

I should have tomorrow off, really

[02:38:01]

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[02:38:10]

GreyFoxx:

oopd missed a couple files!

[02:38:34]

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[02:39:11]

sphery:

Wow... Only 2 fuzz 1's after GreyFoxx's change

[02:39:33]

iamlindoro:

Anduin, S'ok, I'm amending to account for Gfxx's patches, think I can get it done before date night ;)

[02:40:39]

GreyFoxx:

sphery: You I was thinking of a mythvideo popup for that specific group when when the backend is no longer around

[02:40:43]

benklop_:

sphery: it looks like the bug might be fixed in svn, i'm gonig to have to update and see..http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/18321

[02:41:06]

iamlindoro:

DONE!

[02:41:10]

GreyFoxx:

Or make it a choice of "remove remote group or ignore for now"

[02:41:21]

GreyFoxx:

instead of the ok box

[02:41:41]

GreyFoxx:

(which pops up if a scan can't reach a backend it wants to scan :) )

[02:41:52]

sphery:

One of the fuzz's puts my new function (helper for Init() that I put just below Init()) below his new functions (Captain_Murdoch can rearrange them if he wants) ... The other I can't figure out (don't see any fuzz)

[02:42:22]

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[02:42:41]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: that would make sense for in there... I was thinking it might be nice to have some "cleanup" capability in mythtv-setup for generic groups

[02:43:10]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx, Think you have a build failure here

[02:43:10]

sphery:

(though they don't "hurt" anything in other places, they do add to the list of dirs to try--therefore slowing things--when we fallback)

[02:43:16]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: Update again

[02:43:23]

GreyFoxx:

I missed 2 files in my first commit

[02:43:25]

iamlindoro:

heh :)

[02:43:29]

iamlindoro:

Them's the ones

[02:43:34]

GreyFoxx:

I forgot to svn add them :)

[02:43:43]

sphery:

iamlindoro: always check with /current/ trunk before reporting bugs... sheesh!

[02:43:50]

** iamlindoro hangs his head in shame **

[02:43:57]

GreyFoxx:

hah

[02:43:59]

sphery:

now you owe us 2 extra patches

[02:43:59]

iamlindoro:

I'll just not report bugs from now on like the cool kids

[02:44:14]

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[02:44:29]

sphery:

iamlindoro: can you blame them for not wanting to go on record providing a clip from a stolen video?

[02:45:19]

iamlindoro:

Fifth amendment and all that

[02:45:44]

GreyFoxx:

They coud privide a 20 meg dd from the start of one

[02:45:59]

GreyFoxx:

And just rename it

[02:46:01]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[02:46:17]

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[02:48:32]

sphery:

but then when you do a bitwise comparison with the offending file, it would show up like Unix code in an SCO search of Linux source...

[03:14:22]

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[03:15:53]

SuiDog:

Hey there.. Should I see a dmesg saying loading firmware for my win-tv 500 mce card? I see it initialize everything else but I don't see it loading the firmware. I'm just wondering if in 8.10 it does it differently.. everything I see (older versions) says I should see it.

[03:19:01]

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[03:19:21]

wagnerrp:

yes, dmesg should report loaded firmware

[03:19:26]

wagnerrp:

or it should report failed loading

[03:19:33]

wagnerrp:

either way, it should report something

[03:20:25]

SuiDog:

it didn't say either

[03:21:01]

SuiDog:

thats whats strange... now I had another card in there before and I notice that I didn't get the message one way or another unless I had the firmware in the dir.

[03:21:15]

SuiDog:

and that what was strange

[03:22:04]

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[03:22:33]

SuiDog:

I looked at downloading the firmware package from ivtv website.. I already have them and it looks like the verison that came with 8.10 are newer than whats on the website.. if I go by file dates

[03:23:19]

wagnerrp:

i just use the ones my package manager gives me

[03:24:24]

SuiDog:

did you do 8.10 or another version..

[03:24:36]

wagnerrp:

i dont use ubuntu

[03:24:43]

SuiDog:

I looked in the package manager and I only saw like source and utils

[03:27:40]

pigeon:

anyone used mythtv with asian languages (chinese) before? the osd showing those glyphs as boxes only, but then the mythtv gui (tv guide for example) shows them properly.

[03:30:07]

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[03:40:35]

sphery:

PMantis: good news... Since the episode of Fringe that didn't record for you was the last one until April, Fox is almost guaranteed to rerun it before they start the April episodes (which start a run of 7 in a row)

[03:41:04]

PMantis:

hah

[03:41:41]

PMantis:

sphery: I watched it on the Dish DVR, but that's not connected to my new wall mounted widescreen LCD TV and Myth

[03:42:12]

PMantis:

Myth rocks, but it ticked me off that it didn't record.

[03:42:38]

PMantis:

Maybe I'll write a little script to monitor the log, and let me know if something is awry

[03:43:09]

sphery:

if you were using anything other than myth to record from the OTA feed, it probably wouldn't have recorded either

[03:43:25]

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[03:43:25]

sphery:

so blame your local fox station

[03:44:43]

wagnerrp:

what happened that it didnt record?

[03:44:46]

wagnerrp:

time change?

[03:45:02]

sphery:

broken broadcast

[03:45:26]

wagnerrp:

cableco switch PIDs on their broadcast?

[03:45:32]

wagnerrp:

err... station

[03:45:57]

sphery:

http://pastebin.com/d3175fd5

[03:46:27]

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[03:46:29]

sphery:

broken tables

[03:50:14]

wagnerrp:

i missed the first part of the superbowl because NBC moved from 27 to 93

[03:50:17]

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[03:53:41]

jamesd:

wagnerrp, what you didn't catch that error in the 6 hours of pre-game show they showed

[03:58:35]

sphery:

PMantis: that's a good point... you may just need to rescan after they shuffled freq's or channel names

[03:59:10]

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[04:00:29]

PMantis:

sphery: Hmmm,

[04:00:35]

PMantis:

sphery: WTF?

[04:00:55]

PMantis:

sphery: I just tuned to 31–1, and I'm getting the channel 8 news.

[04:01:04]

sphery:

related to the digital changeover

[04:01:13]

sphery:

rescan

[04:01:46]

sphery:

most likely, that is

[04:02:22]

PMantis:

That's REALLY odd... American Idol recorded on the same channel in the timeslot just before Fringe.

[04:03:04]

PMantis:

But... I *did* see that happen before... this exact circumstance.

[04:03:14]

PMantis:

I rescanned and it went away.

[04:03:21]

sphery:

I know my Fox station is switching things around--including terminating analog service--by the 12th

[04:03:33]

PMantis:

Are channel 8 and 31 switching again??

[04:03:35]

PMantis:

WOW

[04:03:47]

PMantis:

I thought they had to do that on the 17th or so...

[04:03:51]

PMantis:

not befor.e

[04:04:37]

PMantis:

sphery: I'll scan in a little while, I'm supposed to be working for a client right now. lol

[04:04:44]

sphery:

did you see the link to the FCC PDF on the -users list? it lists the stations and whether they're terminating analog service a) before the 17th, b) on the 17th, c) after the 17th

[04:05:13]

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[04:05:20]

sphery:

I clipped the local area out of it for my reference

[04:05:39]

PMantis:

sphery: No, not on the list.

[04:05:52]

sphery:

it wasn't completely up-to-date, though, because it shows my Fox as terminating analog after the 17th

[04:06:15]

PMantis:

I can't wait for this to settle down.

[04:09:11]

sphery:

PMantis: you wouldn't happen to be in an area where WPVI is your local ABC affliate, would you?

[04:09:40]

PMantis:

sphery: nope-never heard of that.

[04:09:58]

PMantis:

Hmmm, ABC.. gotta look up the channel number. :)

[04:10:00]

sphery:

just wondering... someone on the -users list seems to be finding the same issue

[04:10:38]

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[04:13:02]

PMantis:

sphery: Ahh, ABC is WHAM channel 13, who is broadcasting 13–1 and 13–2 OTA

[04:20:01]

PMantis:

sphery: Ok, would you recommend doing a scan with minimal updates, delete... ?

[04:20:31]

sphery:

I'd do a full scan

[04:20:36]

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[04:20:45]

sphery:

but the other might work

[04:22:51]

PMantis:

That's not what I mean.. It's the "existing channel treatment"

[04:24:34]

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[04:24:37]

PMantis:

Oh, and... ATSC Channel Separator... should that match what's being broadcasted, OR what Schedules Direct uses?

[04:24:52]

sphery:

channel separator is personal preference

[04:25:50]

sphery:

for the existing channel treatment, I'd do the most destructive (actually, I will be doing http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 --the video sources part) for mine

[04:26:21]

sphery:

I'm not a fan of the "hope it cleaned up all the garbage for me" approach. :)

[04:27:55]

PMantis:

sphery: I found that SD never brought in guide data unless I matched what they had.

[04:28:14]

PMantis:

Ahhh, hmmm... I don't like deleting stuff and recreating it. :(

[04:28:16]

sphery:

you have to match xmltvid, the rest is up to you

[04:28:50]

sphery:

myth checks channel/subchannel without regard to separator when comparing with the SD data to see if it can find xmltvid's for you

[04:29:24]

sphery:

but generally, if your callsigns aren't exactly what SD uses, it won't be able to put xmltvid in for you

[04:29:27]

PMantis:

Really? Hmmm, not the experience I had.

[04:29:30]

sphery:

(I manually edit xmltvid)

[04:29:45]

sphery:

i.e. through the channel editor in MythWeb

[04:29:57]

PMantis:

or mysql. :)

[04:30:05]

PMantis:

Ok, MythWeb is easier.

[04:30:56]

PMantis:

I /really/ don't feel like deleting and recreating all of this.

[04:31:13]

sphery:

try whatever rescan you want

[04:31:25]

sphery:

I'm OC, which is why I'm doing the delete and recreate approach

[04:31:28]

sphery:

but others might work

[04:32:05]

PMantis:

BTW, is there a way to log the channel scan? I'd like to look closer – I think some DTV channels are broadcasted on more than one ATSC channel.

[04:33:16]

sphery:

is it in the normal log output?

[04:33:26]

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[04:33:28]

PMantis:

I checked mythbackend.log... didn't see it.

[04:34:32]

sphery:

it would be in mythtv-setup, since it's doing the scan

[04:36:08]

PMantis:

Well, that scan didn't work. tune to seinfeld, getting letterman

[04:37:19]

PMantis:

There's no log file of that name in /var/log/mythtv for me...

[04:39:00]

sphery:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachm . . . 09-221A5.pdf and http://blogs.spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/200 . . . ons_pla.html (I think my first link is more up-to-date than the one they reference)

[04:40:09]

sphery:

However you're starting mythtv-setup, it's outputting to stdout... If some script starts it, it may send the stdout to a log. If not, it's going wherever stdout goes depending on how it was started.

[04:40:32]

sphery:

easiest thing is to run mythtv-setup in a shell with: mythtv-setup 2>&1 | tee mythtv-setup.log

[04:41:53]

PMantis:

sphery: I'm using ssh -X, and I see nothing in my console

[04:42:02]

PMantis:

Oh well...

[04:43:14]

sphery:

PMantis: *buntu, if so, you have to run mythtv-setup.real

[04:43:43]

PMantis:

Wha?? I've never done that.

[04:43:45]

sphery:

or look at mythtv-setup to find out where it's writing the output

[04:44:22]

sphery:

(mythtv-setup would be a script that calls mythtv-setup.real, which is the name that *buntu renamed mythtv-setup so they could make things more user friendly)

[04:44:44]

PMantis:

Ahhhhhhh

[04:45:13]

PMantis:

So, I have to stop the backend myself.

[04:45:32]

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[04:45:39]

sphery:

I know nothing of *buntu...

[04:46:11]

sphery:

but (all) mythbackend(s) and all mythfrontends must be stopped before running mythtv-setup, else things may go wrong

[04:47:05]

PMantis:

mythtv-setup in mythbuntu stops the backend for you.

[04:47:43]

sphery:

and it probably redirects output somewhere... you could just find out where

[04:48:05]

PMantis:

I could... :)

[04:48:31]

PMantis:

Ugh, Firefox is sucking liverworst sandwiches tonight.

[04:49:02]

PMantis:

Maybe 'cause I've ad it open for a week, and did updates w.o closing it. lol

[04:51:01]

pigeon:

the audio from the tv has left channel only, can i tell myth to record it as mono?

[04:51:39]

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[04:54:42]

sphery:

pigeon: don't know (don't think so?), but there is an option to mute channels independently which allows you to mute left only/right only/both. When right is muted, left plays on both speakersl.

[04:54:57]

pigeon:

ah ok

[04:54:59]

pigeon:

thanks

[04:55:10]

sphery:

probably in playback settings in mythfrontend

[04:55:14]

sphery:

tv playback, that is

[04:58:45]

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[04:59:24]

HRearden:

Anyone else experience a VDPAU regression since 19969 (at least I think that was the cause...). I only get a green screen now. This used to occur if I tried to set the USE_VDPAU_COLORKEY variable

[04:59:32]

pigeon:

sphery: that works, thanks

[05:04:18]

sphery:

HRearden: mark_k has been working on the color key stuff, specifically, in the last couple of days... might want to catch him in #mythtv (he's usually there earlier in the day--I think he's ~18hrs off US EST)

[05:06:47]

PMantis:

ok, this is stupid... I deleted all video inputs, did a full scan.. tune to channel 31–1, I'm getting 8–1... and I can't tune into 8–1... no lock.

[05:07:24]

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[05:08:35]

wagnerrp:

im watching Life from tonight

[05:08:51]

wagnerrp:

you think they could at least teach Rease how to hold a gun straight

[05:09:09]

sphery:

why are you looking at the gun when she's on screen?

[05:09:22]

wagnerrp:

because shes fully clothed

[05:09:41]

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[05:09:56]

sphery:

PMantis: could 8–1 be off the air for the day?

[05:09:58]

wagnerrp:

it just bothered me that crews is pointed straight, at eye level, right at the guys head

[05:10:11]

wagnerrp:

at the range they were at, rease may have shot his foot

[05:10:21]

sphery:

heh

[05:10:32]

PMantis:

sphery: Now, I'm watching it now... but it's appearing to Myth as 31–1

[05:10:47]

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[05:10:58]

wagnerrp:

of course she would have had to shoot through a hair band groupie to do it

[05:11:05]

sphery:

PMantis: hmmm.... don't know what's happening.

[05:12:02]

wagnerrp:

i guess crews had weapons handling pounded into him daily for Band of Brothers

[05:14:06]

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[05:16:52]

PMantis:

Mythtv-setup keeps exiting:

[05:16:57]

PMantis:

mythtv-setup.real: ../../src/xcb_lock.c:77: _XGetXCBBuffer: Assertion `((int) ((

[05:16:57]

PMantis:

xcb_req) – (dpy->request)) >= 0)' failed. Aborted

[05:17:10]

PMantis:

Ooh, sorry.. thought that was one line

[05:17:37]

sphery:

PMantis: ssh -X?

[05:17:43]

PMantis:

Yeah

[05:17:50]

sphery:

using -O ThemePainter=qt

[05:17:56]

sphery:

(you should)

[05:18:10]

PMantis:

Added on to the ssh parameters?

[05:18:25]

wagnerrp:

PMantis: the general rule is actually 3+ lines

[05:18:27]

sphery:

no, when starting setup: mythtv-setup -O ThemePainter=qt

[05:18:29]

wagnerrp:

so youre safe... :P

[05:18:51]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: heh

[05:19:42]

sphery:

also, might want to use ssh -Y, instead of ssh -X (but note that then mythtv-setup could log keystrokes and send your bank account username/password to the Internet)

[05:20:38]

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[05:21:02]

sphery:

which is my way of saying that a bunch of people will tell you -Y is stupid because it's a security issue, but if it's a security issue when you shell to your myth box, you've got /much/ bigger issues than -X (versus -Y) could protect you from

[05:21:12]

PMantis:

I also don't understand why I'm seeing WUHF (fox) on ATSC channel 16 on one scan, and then my local PSB trio on 16 the next scan, and WUHF appears on ATSC 46... the stations apparently appear on multiple frequencies according to Myth.

[05:21:34]

sphery:

this is OTA, not cable?

[05:21:39]

PMantis:

Yeah

[05:21:42]

sphery:

don't know

[05:22:03]

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[05:22:08]

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[05:22:18]

PMantis:

*that's* what I wanted the log for... to see what's really going on.

[05:22:42]

sphery:

The whole ATSC standard is pretty much a black box to me, so I don't know how it works

[05:23:47]

sphery:

PMantis: oh, and if you have a multi-core or multi-proc system, make sure you run mythtv-setup pinned to a single core with: taskset -c 0 mythtv-setup -O ThemePainter=qt

[05:24:00]

sphery:

that might be why it's crashing...

[05:24:49]

PMantis:

Hmmmmm

[05:25:47]

PMantis:

I just deleted all channels and am scanning again

[05:26:08]

PMantis:

I see: Adding WUHF, Updating WUHF...

[05:26:19]

PMantis:

on the same ATSC channel.

[05:26:29]

PMantis:

Odd to me

[05:28:11]

PMantis:

It's only being this way because it's 12:30 AM here, and I have stuff to record tomorrow, and I'm low on slep.

[05:29:02]

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[05:29:26]

RyeBrye:

sphery: what is the pegging to only one core do?

[05:29:31]

RyeBrye:

err s/is/does/

[05:29:48]

sphery:

there's a race condition that occurs on multi-core systems when scanning channels

[05:31:04]

sphery:

since the whole channel scanner is being replaced (not to mention the Qt3->Qt4 QString changes and QString-handling changes), it's not worth tracking it down

[05:32:23]

sphery:

though it's possible that a user did (don't know if http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6223 fixes it or fixes a different crash)

[05:32:36]

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[05:40:35]

mzb_d800:

PMantis: you *may* also want to do: export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1

[05:40:52]

mzb_d800:

(prior to the mythtv-setup command)

[05:40:58]

mzb_d800:

when doing ssh -X

[05:41:12]

PMantis:

ha, so may options

[05:41:21]

mzb_d800:

eg:

[05:41:24]

mzb_d800:

#!/bin/sh

[05:41:27]

mzb_d800:

export XLIB_SKIP_ARGB_VISUALS=1

[05:41:28]

mzb_d800:

mythtv-setup --geometry 1280x768 -O ThemePainter=qt

[05:41:39]

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[05:41:42]

mzb_d800:

(in a small script)

[05:42:33]

mzb_d800:

if you end up with dodgy (grey?) window then alt-tab to the terminal, ctrl-c and restart

[05:45:09]

mzb_d800:

(rinse & repeat?;))

[05:46:37]

WAudette[ansi]:

We have Comcast cable out here. I still haven't seen an integrated receiver that uses an M-Card or something. Until then it looks like it makes more sense to use the Comcast DVR for recording video with the Dual Tuner feature it's hard to beat. Still though I'd like to use MythTV some day when the integration becomes a bit more elegant.

[05:47:31]

WAudette[ansi]:

Haves anyone made an integrated card/device to tune DirectTV or Dish though?

[05:48:00]

WAudette[ansi]:

*Has

[05:49:18]

RyeBrye:

Not legally

[05:49:49]

wagnerrp:

well its kind of a grey area

[05:50:00]

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[05:50:07]

wagnerrp:

there are... methods that are not to be spoken of in here, capable of doing it

[05:50:15]

wagnerrp:

but theyre usually used for satellite theft

[05:51:26]

sphery:

the grey area being the R5000 boxes that are modified DISH receivers that output via some messed up firewire

[05:51:49]

sphery:

the not spoken thing is not a grey are (at least if you're in the US)

[05:51:52]

sphery:

area

[05:52:21]

wagnerrp:

well if youre paying for the content, you have the right to it

[05:52:37]

sphery:

not according to the Terms of Service

[05:52:43]

wagnerrp:

but breaking the encryption is a violation of the DMCA, and probably your user agreement

[05:53:09]

sphery:

you actually purchase a right to watch the content through their equipment...

[05:53:28]

sphery:

you don't purchase the content itself (or the right to use the signal as you see fit)

[05:53:39]

sphery:

at least as I understand it

[05:54:39]

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[05:55:51]

wagnerrp:

well thats where the grey area comes in

[05:55:58]

wagnerrp:

whether or not it falls under fair use

[05:57:43]

wagnerrp:

its illegal... but is it illegal in the manner of cable theft, or in the manner of dvd ripping

[05:58:19]

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[05:58:42]

wagnerrp:

but since its often used in combination with forged smart cards, its tending more towards the former

[06:00:07]

sphery:

yeah, and if nothing else, it's definitely a service agreement violation, so...

[06:01:07]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: the closest you'll likely ever get in the US is something like the Hauppauge HD-PVR, which takes component in (analog) and encodes it to MPEG. That won't really be ready until 0.22 is released, though.

[06:01:29]

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[06:03:13]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: How frustrating.

[06:03:49]

WAudette[ansi]:

I don't mind paying for what I use at all. I just wish they'd let me receive it the way I want to use it.

[06:04:18]

sphery:

well, if you like to vote with your wallet, going OTA only (and foregoing the DRM-laden cable/satellite channels) is great with Myth

[06:04:58]

WAudette[ansi]:

Because of that I don't mind operating in the grey if I am paying for what I am using they can bite me and we, if they take it that far, can argue in court. IMHO.

[06:05:27]

jpabq:

For me, the HD-PVR was money well spent.

[06:05:33]

sphery:

of course, since 99.99% of US citizens aren't serious enough about changing things to actually give up their Sex in the City or Sopranos or whatever cable subscribers are watching these days, I'm fighting a losing battle, I think

[06:05:43]

WAudette[ansi]:

OTA doesn't get you 250 plus channels.

[06:06:17]

sphery:

yep, but it makes a statement (very small, though it may be) to the local cable monopoly and the satellite companies

[06:06:26]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: Agreed on the people not being aware or caring.

[06:06:59]

jpabq:

I would love it if some company (cable or satellite) would offer a-la-carte. I would only need half-dozen channels.

[06:07:06]

WAudette[ansi]:

I hope IPTV type tech that is out there will bite them all in the shorts and raise awareness.

[06:07:59]

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[06:08:16]

WAudette[ansi]:

I'll look at the HD-PVR, but the digital analog to digital seems like such a waste.

[06:08:17]

sphery:

I hope the cable/phone/... companies that provide the Internet infrastructure actually invest in sufficient upgrades to handle the kind of bandwidth that video delivery across the Internet will take

[06:08:32]

wagnerrp:

sadly, iptv is largely unregulated, and ads untold wonders of digital rights restrictions

[06:08:54]

sphery:

Isn't Netflix shipping out DVD's every day whose content equates to significantly greater than 50% of the entire bandwidth available on the Internet?

[06:09:19]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: you do take a minor hit in picture quality because of the digital-analog-digital, but there is no better option. It is still MUCH better than recording SD

[06:09:48]

sphery:

and that's just netflix... think about the BlockBuster, Hollywood Videos, ... users as well as people who watch on movie channels from their cable cos...

[06:09:49]

WAudette[ansi]:

jpabq: How snappy at changing channels is the HD-PVR?

[06:09:57]

wagnerrp:

well loading a station wagon with flash drives is a faster bulk delivery method than the best optical interconnect

[06:10:09]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: typically takes around 7 seconds when used with Myth.

[06:10:31]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: it's likely orders of magnitude faster than the DISH STB when coupled with the LIRC transmitter and the channel change script

[06:11:41]

WAudette[ansi]:

7 SECONDS wow! We need something better. Still I tend to watch pre-recorded shows so it'd have less of an impact, but still.

[06:11:49]

sphery:

(i.e. most of that 7 seconds is probably due to the non-HDPVR stuff--at least if it's anything like the PVR-x50's were with my DISH box back before I called up DISH and told them to cancel my account because I wanted high def in my Myth box and they couldn't do it)

[06:12:07]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: you really don't want to channel surf with myth, anyway...

[06:12:21]

sphery:

I don't remember the last time I changed the channel on my Myth box... 2004, probably

[06:12:41]

wagnerrp:

i do it to access the local weather channels

[06:12:45]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: I had no idea the LIRC transmitter method was so slow. I am really glad I talked to you guys before going that route.

[06:13:05]

wagnerrp:

they took away my analog weather feed on cable

[06:13:19]

jpabq:

It takes the HD-PVR two seconds to lock onto a new input resolution. Since it can record 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i, it is necessary to wait two seconds to find out what the input resolution is.

[06:13:55]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: Dish is cheaper than Directv, but Directv can be controlled via USB, which is slightly more reliable.

[06:13:56]

WAudette[ansi]:

Wow. That makes sense though.

[06:14:29]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: well, the LIRC thing can be fast, but you have to transmit slowly enough for the STB to keep up... I had a 0.4s sleep between digits... Would send Cancel|8|5|4|3|Select|Cancel (so, for that, it was 7x0.4s), then the STB would change channels (which usually took 1 to 2 seconds--starting at the Select)... It all adds up

[06:14:32]

WAudette[ansi]:

DirecTV sounds like the way to go if I abandon Comcast.

[06:15:31]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: Dish's "Turbo HD" is much cheaper than HD from Directv. I did see, though, that if you are a AAA member, than you can get $10 off per month, for the first two years.

[06:15:42]

WAudette[ansi]:

Even the Comcast Dual Tuner DVRs take a bit to change channels but I think it is like 1.5 seconds. Analog on the other hand was nearly instant.

[06:15:45]

jpabq:

--- From Directv

[06:15:51]

WAudette[ansi]:

HD Comcast might take longer.

[06:16:32]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: yeah, that's pretty typical for an STB... 1–2s for a channel change... And, since with Myth, you have to add the other stuff on top of that...

[06:16:37]

wagnerrp:

analog is... an analog signal, you can start recording the instant the tuner locks in

[06:16:55]

wagnerrp:

digital is an mpeg feed, you have to wait until the next i-frame before you start recording

[06:17:27]

wagnerrp:

so you have to lock the tuner, wait for a good start point, prebuffer to disk, read back from disk

[06:17:42]

wagnerrp:

so all together, 4–5s is typical for myth

[06:17:54]

jpabq:

My channel change script also does a 1 second delay in case the STB is turned off, which slows things down a little bit. If you always had the STB turned on, and always had it fixed to a specific resolution (e.g. 720p), then the channel changes could be sped up a little bit. Still would probably take ~5 seconds, though.

[06:18:00]

WAudette[ansi]:

We deploy Bulk systems with DirecTV and a block of tuners... one for every channel, then condense them to into 120 analog channels. That costs us about 40k in equipment though. Can't do that in the home.

[06:18:19]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: it just looks worse with Myth, though, because you key in channel number /to Myth/, then Myth tells the channel change script which tells the STB... So, you /think/ you've told it to change channels when you finish keying, but really, Myth hasn't even started...

[06:18:20]

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[06:18:31]

RyeBrye:

so mythvideo is going to gain streaming ability? happy day! :)

[06:18:40]

RyeBrye:

(as in streaming content from BE -> FE)

[06:18:46]

WAudette[ansi]:

Is the DirecTV USB controller any faster at changes?

[06:18:57]

wagnerrp:

usb controller?

[06:19:06]

sphery:

jpabq: yours actually comes up in 1s? Mine (old-tech DISH analog ones) could take as much as 20–30s...

[06:19:18]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: yes.

[06:19:35]

sphery:

so, I'd run the discrete power on on a cron shortly before primetime (when nearly all my recordings occur)

[06:19:35]

jpabq:

sphery: it takes longer than 1 second, but 1 second is enough of delay that it avoids problems.

[06:19:46]

jpabq:

sphery: that is a good idea

[06:19:48]

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[06:20:11]

sphery:

it doesn't really help if you have a power outage and the STB doesn't restart during the recordings, but...

[06:20:26]

sphery:

my OTA is /so/ much better now that I don't have that failure mode

[06:20:49]

WAudette[ansi]:

Ok so if I start penciling this out what is the correct DirectTV USB device to order? Do I need two of them for the dual tuner thing to work?

[06:21:39]

jpabq:

The Directv pearl script automatically includes a ON command at the beginning of an channel change requests. If the unit is not on, it waits for it, but if it is already on, it can continue with the channel change with minimal delay.

[06:22:43]

WAudette[ansi]:

I am surprised people ever turn the receivers off. On the DVRs we've had, Tivo and Comcast's DVR we leave them on all the time.

[06:22:52]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: that is the problem. People have been having a hard time finding USB->Serial adaptors with the PL2303 chip lately. The PL2303 is one of the few chips the Directv receivers understand. Most companies have switched to the PL2303X, which the directv receiver does not understand.

[06:23:14]

WAudette[ansi]:

I have UPSs on them, small ones 850VA.

[06:24:02]

wagnerrp:

i wouldnt consider that a 'small' UPS

[06:24:03]

WAudette[ansi]:

jpabq: Ok, that's an important bit to know.

[06:24:13]

jpabq:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Controlling_DirecT . . . SB_or_Serial

[06:24:30]

WAudette[ansi]:

Well small in that the TV runs off of it too.

[06:24:38]

jpabq:

The report that the Dynex DX-UBDB9 works is recent, so there is hope

[06:24:43]

wagnerrp:

my biggest one is a 900VA, and it runs my desktop, server, and a handful of monitors for 20min on battery

[06:24:55]

sphery:

WAudette[ansi]: Yeah, I measured power consumption of my DISH STB--it was identical, whether on or off... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/234916#234916 ... so I never turned it off.

[06:25:25]

wagnerrp:

sphery: so the power button was a placebo?

[06:25:33]

sphery:

basically

[06:25:34]

WAudette[ansi]:

wagnerrp: I am rather flush with equipment I suppose as I have been steeped so to speak in the industry for a long time.

[06:26:02]

sphery:

though the funny thing was you had to push it every once in a while so it could apply updates... I had to reboot my DISH boxes more than my Myth boxes.

[06:26:12]

sphery:

(at least once/2mos)

[06:26:43]

WAudette[ansi]:

I am not surprised.

[06:26:50]

wagnerrp:

that reminds me, i need to look into getting replacement batteries

[06:27:02]

PMantis:

sphery: I think I finally have all the OTA channels working.

[06:27:04]

wagnerrp:

my oldest one is coming up around 3 years

[06:27:11]

jpabq:

http://www.upsforless.com/

[06:27:21]

WAudette[ansi]:

So one STB per concurrent recording channel or are there dual tuner types that work with the USB interface?

[06:27:40]

wagnerrp:

i should plug it (the usb port) into something and see how much life it actually provides

[06:27:43]

jpabq:

1–1

[06:27:49]

PMantis:

sphery: I reset th HDHomeRun, rescanned a couple times, then started a scan, killed it as soon as it detected 16...

[06:27:56]

WAudette[ansi]:

wagnerrp: Yup, every three years. We have a great local company that does a good job.

[06:27:58]

sphery:

I have my 9 UPS's stacked in my office (because I haven't gotten a chance to take them to hazardous waste disposal) because they /caused/ more downtime than they prevented.

[06:28:13]

PMantis:

sphery: I hope the jumping through hoops goes away when the DTV transition settles down.

[06:28:26]

sphery:

PMantis: and you were running it on a single core?

[06:28:58]

sphery:

my UPS batteries were useless within a year, too... FL power isn't kind to UPS's.

[06:28:59]

PMantis:

sphery: Not when it finally came together, no... it did a few times.

[06:29:15]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: What brand?

[06:29:36]

sphery:

of UPS's? APC, Conext, and a couple of others...

[06:29:44]

WAudette[ansi]:

jpabq: 1 -1 dang... I was hoping we were past that by now.

[06:29:57]

wagnerrp:

i didnt think frequent cycling really bothered SLAs

[06:30:37]

WAudette[ansi]:

APC should be good for more years. They have stronger units though. Typically their commercial ones last much longer.

[06:30:45]

jpabq:

WAudette[ansi]: Dish has a DVR which can output two different shows on two different outputs, but one of the outputs is SD only, and would not work well with myth.

[06:31:02]

sphery:

The problem was their smarts... They would often get to a state where they required a manual reset (of the circuit breaker) before they would resume power. Of course, this always happened on Monday afternoon while I was on a plane starting my week-long business trips.

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[06:31:32]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: I have experience that as well.

[06:31:54]

WAudette[ansi]:

Some of them have a dip switch for that so you don't have to breaker them.

[06:31:54]

wagnerrp:

a pair of APCs and a Cyberpower, ive never had such an issue

[06:32:15]

PMantis:

sphery: Then convert all your equipment to 12 volt... and plug a trickle charger into the batteries. :)

[06:32:30]

WAudette[ansi]:

APC, HP, Triplite, and Ultra (QVC) here.

[06:32:48]

sphery:

So, I took out the UPS's, now my PSU's take whatever hits them--and sometimes pass it on to the mobo/HDD's/...--but generally, the power will blink (we almost never have extended power outages here), the system crashes, then reboots (and, thanks to a journalling filesystem...)

[06:33:12]

sphery:

PMantis: I considered that... Was seriously looking at some car pc PSU's...

[06:33:42]

wagnerrp:

PMantis: you know, with everything we have that runs on DC, ive wondered if it would be worthwhile running DC lines through new homes

[06:33:46]

sphery:

just decided I didn't trust my EE abilities when it came to making the system

[06:33:48]

PMantis:

sphery: Ugh! My client has all their systems setup with dual PSUs, only /one/ PSU uses a UPS.

[06:34:02]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: LOL me, too.

[06:34:03]

wagnerrp:

computers are all DC, electronics are all DC

[06:34:24]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: FYI, I've had really good luck with a industrial grade PSU maker called HEC. They have tested very well in the lab too. We had a Gamen engineer rate them and they come out on top every time. Antec and other quality names OEM from them.

[06:34:27]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: Yeah, and AC is only helpful for long distance transmissions, really.

[06:34:45]

wagnerrp:

PMantis: thats absolutely not true

[06:34:52]

wagnerrp:

high efficiency motors run AC

[06:35:19]

sphery:

This PSU was the top of my list (primarily because it's plenty powerful): http://www.opussolutions.net/catalog/product_ . . . oducts_id=48 with http://www.batteryweb.com/lifeline.cfm batteries

[06:35:36]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: Actually.. high voltage is better for long distance. A/C was choses because it's safer

[06:35:38]

wagnerrp:

anything over a couple hundred W is usually an AC induction motor

[06:35:45]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: U R right.

[06:36:13]

WAudette[ansi]:

PMantis: That's actually a good idea. Most of my clients have multiple UPSs but that isn't a bad idea at all in Dual PSU systems.

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[06:36:17]

WAudette[ansi]:

Never thought of it.

[06:36:28]

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[06:36:40]

wagnerrp:

i mean if everything is UPS backed anyway

[06:36:45]

PMantis:

WAudette[ansi]: or at least a /different/ UPS. :)

[06:36:51]

wagnerrp:

thats quite a waste to do AC to DC to AC and back to DC

[06:37:06]

PMantis:

wagnerrp: Exactly

[06:37:08]

sphery:

yeah...

[06:37:14]

wagnerrp:

just do a big DC converter, hooked up to a live battery backup

[06:37:31]

wagnerrp:

maybe hook in a generator for kicks

[06:37:35]

PMantis:

lol

[06:38:04]

wagnerrp:

the problem is high power DC converters (except for PC power supplies) are not cheap

[06:38:31]

wagnerrp:

no market besides industrial users who need the quality (and dont mind paying the price)

[06:39:12]

sphery:

I just swapped a PSU out yesterday and ran some old/new measurements with a Kill-A-Watt... The same system (myth master backend) with the old PSU ("Efficiency: up to 80%") was taking 3.62kWh/day. With the new PSU--an 80 PLUS certified, "Efficiency: >80% at all loads"--it's taking 3.12kWh/day.

[06:39:28]

sphery:

amazing how much that AC->DC can cost you...

[06:39:40]

WAudette[ansi]:

One of my clients actually installed a huge flywheel... REALY HUGE to keep crystals growing for short outages. There was one or two per crucible. The weight and momentum kept things going evenly for quite some time.

[06:39:41]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah

[06:40:32]

PMantis:

So, we setup an array of 1000W 80 PLUS with diodes for safety, and run the house off of 12V. :)

[06:40:41]

wagnerrp:

WAudette[ansi]: ive actually heard that as an alternative to batteries in gas/diesel-electric cars

[06:40:42]

PMantis:

WAudette[ansi]: Flywheel atached to what?

[06:40:52]

jpabq:

This is worth watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBtFTF2ii7U

[06:40:55]

wagnerrp:

PMantis: a combo motor/generator

[06:40:59]

WAudette[ansi]:

sphery: This is the company/brand I was talking about. http://www.directron.com/hp585dbox.html

[06:41:03]

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[06:41:28]

WAudette[ansi]:

http://www.hecgroupusa.com/ Good steel cases too.

[06:41:48]

wagnerrp:

higher amperes than batteries, higher capacity than supercaps

[06:42:23]

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[06:43:00]

WAudette[ansi]:

PMantis: Flywheel attached to a generator and magnets flywheel on top of very good fluid bearings..

[06:43:11]

WAudette[ansi]:

Note DC

[06:44:19]

WAudette[ansi]:

wagnerrp: And very very efficient. Also never had to replace any batteries.

[06:44:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, no memory, very little maintenance or worry of lifetime

[06:44:47]

strex:

can anyone recommend a low profile nvidia card that works great with mythtv, currently using a fx 5200, and looking to upgrade..

[06:45:04]

wagnerrp:

you just need some intelligent circuit to make sure you dont saturate the flywheel

[06:45:22]

wagnerrp:

that much mechanical energy could have explosive results

[06:45:23]

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[06:45:28]

PMantis:

Well guys, thanks for putting up with my gripes while I got mt OTA stuff working again.

[06:45:36]

PMantis:

Time for bed

[06:45:41]

WAudette[ansi]:

They figured that out... also figured out an elegant way to keep the same cycles no matter the speed of the wheel.

[06:45:46]

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[06:45:57]

wagnerrp:

strex: stick with the 5200, so upgrade the whole machine

[06:46:26]

strex:

wagnerrp: I already have, but still having problems with the damn video drivers.

[06:46:43]

wagnerrp:

are you trying to do xvmc or something?

[06:46:46]

WAudette[ansi]:

PMantis: Thanks for the chat. night.

[06:46:55]

wagnerrp:

because nvidia is by and large, pain free

[06:46:57]

strex:

wagnerrp: nope, no xvmc

[06:47:16]

WAudette[ansi]:

jpabq: and everyone else. Thanks for the help.

[06:47:21]

wagnerrp:

just install the binary drivers, run nvidia-xconfig, and youre done

[06:47:38]

strex:

tried that several times.. still problems

[06:47:52]

wagnerrp:

what problem specifically?

[06:47:56]

strex:

NVRM: Xid errors and the screen goes pink, etc..

[06:48:54]

strex:

even made some posts on the nv forums, with no result..

[06:49:12]

wagnerrp:

what distro, version?

[06:49:46]

strex:

mythdora 10.21

[06:50:05]

wagnerrp:

youre using the legacy drivers, correct?

[06:50:10]

strex:

yep

[06:51:14]

strex:

while watching a video (iso) try and fast forward, and it freaks out and goes pink / freezes..

[06:51:36]

strex:

tried local file (non nfs) same result

[06:52:30]

wagnerrp:

only thing i could think of would be a damaged card

[06:52:54]

wagnerrp:

something that old, a warranty is doubtful

[06:52:58]

strex:

could be.. any idea how to research that?

[06:53:19]

strex:

or determin if it's a damaged card.

[06:53:43]

wagnerrp:

other than swap out for another card? maybe run it in windows a bit, see if you get similar problems

[06:54:18]

strex:

that would be a good test, but I'm all linux/bsd here.. hmm..

[06:54:49]

wagnerrp:

is this a combo box? or a frontend?

[06:54:59]

strex:

frontend only.

[06:55:16]

strex:

2.8 dual core, 2gb ram etc..

[06:55:39]

wagnerrp:

a dual core chip on an AGP board?

[06:55:57]

strex:

no, the vid card is pci...

[06:55:58]

wagnerrp:

or is this a 5200PCI?

[06:56:07]

wagnerrp:

ah, well then problem solved

[06:56:14]

wagnerrp:

just pick up a modern nvidia PCIe card

[06:56:37]

wagnerrp:

i thought you were in the market for another AGP card

[06:56:45]

strex:

like what? supported by linux / mythfrontend?

[06:57:03]

wagnerrp:

and with VDPAU and other hardware video acceleration in the works, buying an AGP card right now would be a poor choice

[06:57:05]

strex:

nope, in the market for a card that just works, hopefully

[06:57:36]

wagnerrp:

get a low end 9 series, or an 8400GS with a clock speed ~560MHz

[06:57:47]

strex:

pcie would be great, got the slot for it, but need an idea of what kind of card i'm looking for.

[06:57:52]

strex:

k

[06:58:06]

wagnerrp:

those chips support the full capability of VDPAU

[06:58:26]

wagnerrp:

for whenever that capability gets an official release (by nvidia and mythtv)

[06:58:46]

strex:

nice, i'll look for one of those..

[06:58:48]

wagnerrp:

its only supported in trunk, and is considered a beta feature of the nvidia drivers

[06:58:54]

strex:

any idea if their low profile?

[06:59:12]

wagnerrp:

im sure you can find one

[06:59:33]

wagnerrp:

i have a low profile 8400 PCI (not PCIe)

[06:59:52]

strex:

any recommendations that are supported with non beta drivers, and non trunk mythfrontend.

[07:00:13]

wagnerrp:

any of those cards are supported just fine with the 180 drivers

[07:00:22]

wagnerrp:

just use Xv until VDPAU gets an official release

[07:00:39]

wagnerrp:

180.22 are non-beta, i believe

[07:00:53]

strex:

I think your right, i remmeber seeing that.

[07:01:14]

strex:

so 8400 – low 9x would be good?

[07:01:24]

strex:

PCIe?

[07:01:34]

wagnerrp:

if you pick up an 8400, there are two revisions

[07:01:44]

wagnerrp:

a G86 and a G98 version

[07:02:05]

wagnerrp:

the latter supports VC1, for if you ever want to start ripping blu-ray in the future

[07:02:27]

wagnerrp:

seems the former runs at 450MHz, and the latter at 567MHz

[07:02:41]

strex:

might be a possibility.. so I might just go with that.

[07:03:02]

strex:

so a 8400 G98

[07:03:19]

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[07:03:28]

wagnerrp:

the 9400s should have support as well

[07:03:34]

wagnerrp:

i know the integrated 9300s do

[07:04:28]

strex:

alright, sounds good. I'll have to see what I can find.

[07:04:52]

strex:

Any recommendations as to where to look? (i'll check google obviously).

[07:06:09]

cesman:

strex: you are looking a low profile 8400?

[07:06:23]

strex:

cesman: yes please..

[07:06:35]

cesman:

http://www.sparkle.com.tw/product_detail.asp? . . . p;sub_id=239

[07:07:23]

cesman:

You can remove the VGA connector which leaves you w/ SVideo and DVI

[07:08:13]

strex:

DVI is fine, already have the DVI -> HDMI cable.

[07:08:13]

cesman:

the box has a bracket for low profile

[07:08:29]

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[07:08:49]

strex:

wagnerrp: but would that card meet the g98?

[07:08:57]

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[07:09:22]

cesman:

strex: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187042

[07:09:58]

cesman:

strex: you should note the heatsink does stick out

[07:10:12]

cesman:

strex: depending on your case, it may not fit

[07:10:14]

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[07:10:42]

strex:

cesman: it's the only card in the box, fitting shouldn't be a problem as long as it's low profile.

[07:10:52]

cesman:

ok

[07:10:57]

cesman:

that you should be set!

[07:11:00]

cesman:

have fun

[07:11:32]

strex:

cesman: thanks man, sound good..

[07:12:46]

wagnerrp:

strex: cesman's card is PCI, not PCIe

[07:13:02]

wagnerrp:

unless your board does not have PCIe slots, there is no reason to buy a PCI card

[07:13:31]

wagnerrp:

in fact, PCI will not be able to keep up with unaccelerated HD (1080p) video

[07:13:53]

wagnerrp:

the first card you posted *should* work fine

[07:14:20]

wagnerrp:

the one cesman posted is the one i have currently, or rather formerly had before sending it in for RMA replacement

[07:14:30]

wagnerrp:

i knew i shouldnt have trusted a company like sparkle

[07:15:31]

strex:

wagnerrp: so with that said, what do you recommend.?

[07:17:07]

wagnerrp:

the sparkle should be fine

[07:17:13]

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[07:18:06]

wagnerrp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187042 is the PCIe variant of that card

[07:19:00]

wagnerrp:

id rather go with this one... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127367

[07:19:30]

wagnerrp:

has the same high heatsink problem as the sparkle

[07:23:33]

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[07:23:58]

hachi:

https://rosa.succub.us/~hachi/mythtv-azraelle.cgi

[07:24:10]

hachi:

for some reason, my backend azraelle thinks that there's nothing to record

[07:24:47]

hachi:

both of my slave backends claim there is nothing to record

[07:24:53]

hachi:

https://rosa.succub.us/~hachi/mythtv.cgi

[07:24:56]

hachi:

but my master is fine

[07:25:25]

hachi:

mythfrontend is claiming the backends are offline... I'm not seeing any errors in logs about problems

[07:25:33]

wagnerrp:

i dont believe you are who you say you are

[07:25:35]

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[07:25:37]

hachi:

anyone got ideas to figure this out?

[07:25:52]

wagnerrp:

you didnt pay the CA tax

[07:25:52]

hachi:

well. fine

[07:25:58]

wagnerrp:

:P

[07:25:58]

hachi:

:\

[07:26:29]

cesman:

hachi: restart the MBE then the SBEs

[07:26:48]

hachi:

cesman: sure... but, I'd love to know what's actually wrong :\

[07:26:55]

wagnerrp:

it was formerly working, with no changes since?

[07:26:56]

hachi:

hang on...

[07:27:02]

hachi:

yup

[07:27:06]

wagnerrp:

the MBE must be brought online before the SBEs

[07:27:25]

hachi:

the MBE's been online and running the same version for ages

[07:27:29]

wagnerrp:

if for some reason the MBE went down, the whole system must be taken down

[07:27:32]

hachi:

and I always have it up before the SBE

[07:27:46]

wagnerrp:

or otherwise a fault with the network causing it to get disconnected

[07:27:47]

hachi:

are you serious? it doesn't reconnect?

[07:28:07]

wagnerrp:

at startup? it will try a couple times and then shutdown

[07:28:18]

wagnerrp:

after its been running... i really dont know what would happen

[07:28:23]

hachi:

:\

[07:28:52]

hachi:

master was started last on feb 4

[07:29:09]

hachi:

slave was restarted 27 minutes ago

[07:29:53]

wagnerrp:

pastebin a bit of the SBE logs

[07:30:17]

hachi:

https://rosa.succub.us/~hachi/mythtv-azraelle.cgi

[07:30:23]

hachi:

no change in state, hold for logs

[07:30:52]

wagnerrp:

bah... firefox has made it painful to access sites who havent paid the CA tax

[07:30:58]

wagnerrp:

iexplore go!

[07:31:03]

hachi:

I know

[07:31:10]

hachi:

I kinda want to strangle firefox for doing that

[07:31:43]

wagnerrp:

i mean the logs

[07:32:05]

hachi:

huh?

[07:32:08]

hachi:

yes, hold on I said

[07:32:31]

wagnerrp:

ok

[07:33:16]

wagnerrp:

what is mythtv.cgi? is that your MBE?

[07:33:20]

hachi:

yes

[07:33:24]

hachi:

http://nopaste.snit.ch/15596

[07:33:26]

wagnerrp:

why does it have no tuners?

[07:33:42]

hachi:

:\

[07:34:02]

hachi:

many reasons in my original design, only some of which even apply

[07:34:11]

hachi:

I've been lectured on how it's not supported like this

[07:34:28]

wagnerrp:

it works, if technically not supported

[07:34:41]

hachi:

but partway through the lecture people started discussing it among themselves and realized that it should work fine

[07:34:55]

hachi:

thing is... the master backend is a virtual machine

[07:34:55]

wagnerrp:

but considering myth doesnt support shutting down SBEs independently, theres not a whole lot of worth beyond just running a job queue

[07:35:24]

hachi:

I'm actually working on that in trunk

[07:35:43]

hachi:

but I haven't been able to deploy trunk to my running setup, so I have no idea if it works

[07:36:15]

hachi:

er, I have a branch of trunk where I'm trying to codify it

[07:36:16]

wagnerrp:

the BE just consumes an extra 150–200MB of memory, for little use if there are not tuner cards

[07:36:25]

hachi:

well, in my original setup

[07:36:40]

hachi:

the MBE has all the disk space, and most of the CPU time to thrash commercials

[07:36:51]

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[07:37:45]

hachi:

you saw the logs, yes?

[07:37:56]

wagnerrp:

yeah, everything seems peachy

[07:38:15]

hachi:

I'd show you the frontend.. but that's hard :)

[07:38:27]

wagnerrp:

to be honest, i dont know if the recordings should show up on the schedule for the SBE status page

[07:38:40]

hachi:

well, that's fine

[07:38:49]

hachi:

but the frontends are showing all recorders as offline

[07:38:52]

hachi:

or whatever the term is

[07:39:01]

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[07:39:08]

wagnerrp:

even though the status page says theyre online?

[07:39:12]

hachi:

yup

[07:39:37]

hachi:

actually... the frontend can play live TV

[07:39:44]

hachi:

so now it's just the scheduler claiming

[07:39:46]

wagnerrp:

with offline tuners?

[07:40:09]

hachi:

no, the tuners work in live TV, but the schedule just claims the tuners are offline

[07:40:34]

wagnerrp:

no clue...

[07:40:50]

hachi:

and now they all show up online after playing some live TV...

[07:40:52]

hachi:

heisenbug

[07:40:55]

wagnerrp:

all i could think of would be start everything up with '-v all', and spend the next hour sifting through megs of logs

[07:41:17]

hachi:

this is the first time I've had this happen, so I'll put up with it

[07:41:26]

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[07:41:27]

hachi:

once every 10 months is sorta okay

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[08:27:49]

pigeon:

hmm, i just noticed for live tv, the thumnbnail is always a blank color image, while scheduled recording is ok.

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[08:59:56]

oobe:

pigeon, possibly caise the image is unavailable since it has already expired

[09:00:19]

oobe:

i often see stuff in livetv that has already expired but is still listed

[09:00:28]

oobe:

doesent stay there long

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[09:31:21]

Gokee2:

Hello all, I recorded a show and it cuts out about 10 minutes early. mythtv shows 2:01 and only plays till 1:51 or so. The file itself when playes in mplayer time shows 1:50:21 and plays until the same point as mythtv. xine does the same. Any ideas what went wrong?

[09:33:18]

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[09:40:20]

pigeon:

hmm, but they're not expired yet, hmm

[09:49:38]

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[10:19:39]

soccerties:

Any colorado usa users here?

[10:20:33]

justinh:

just ask the question you came here to ask :)

[10:22:28]

soccerties:

Im interested in meeting some fellow mythtv users wondering if theres some type of user list by location

[10:24:07]

justinh:

the wiki used to have 'user groups' – I'm pretty sure that was the kind of thing you'd call a user list

[10:24:26]

justinh:

MUGs... Myth User Groups. nothing official AFAIK

[10:24:38]

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[10:24:55]

gbee:

one or two are listed in the wiki

[10:25:43]

justinh:

there you go: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:MUG

[10:25:48]

soccerties:

Every time i've searched i only find mailing list info

[10:25:56]

soccerties:

Nice

[10:27:04]

justinh:

oh bugger. some of my CD rip dirs are found to be 'corrupt' by windows. I hope that's just because of file naming

[10:28:16]

soccerties:

Nobody near colorado...

[10:29:32]

justinh:

apparently not

[10:33:52]

gbee:

if (detectedLinux) { print "Your filesystem has been corrupted by installing an non MS operating system, would you like Windows to fix it?"; UninstallCommieSoftware(); }

[10:34:10]

gbee:

yay, Moonlight has been released

[10:34:44]

justinh:

anyway, not to worry. I've got copies of everything on the linux box now

[10:35:16]

justinh:

maybe I copied _from_ linux_ to the ntfs disk. that'd explain it

[10:41:20]

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[10:41:35]

soccerties:

Anyone hear about the nvidia ion chipset coming out soon

[10:41:38]

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[10:42:02]

gbee:

unfortunately yes

[10:44:34]

soccerties:

Mythhtv's been ported to arm chips already right? It should be pretty easy to get a frontend running on one of those

[10:44:34]

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[10:45:22]

justinh:

what does arm have to do with nvidia ion?

[10:45:31]

cesman:

nothing

[10:45:39]

cesman:

The Ion is an Intel Atom

[10:45:40]

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[10:45:55]

justinh:

eggsackerly :)

[10:45:59]

cesman:

:)

[10:46:26]

soccerties:

Oh right is myth ported to the atom?

[10:46:36]

cesman:

Atom is x86

[10:47:47]

soccerties:

:D sweet, so its done son, thats awsome, how soon is vdpau gonna be supportted

[10:47:57]

justinh:

dohhhhhhhhhhhh

[10:48:37]

justinh:

vdpau is early days yet. beta from nvidia. initial support is already in trunk. watch this space

[10:50:42]

soccerties:

Yeah ive been reading the mailing list.. Any guess as to how long to get it fully supported

[10:50:52]

justinh:

no

[10:51:22]

justinh:

give it a rest. it'll take as long as it takes & much of it relies on nvidia's guys doing work as & when issues are found

[10:51:44]

justinh:

so far they've been right on top of everything. just be patient

[10:52:31]

justinh:

anybody could pluck a date out of thin air & tell you that instead

[10:52:37]

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[10:53:17]

gbee:

soccerties: it will be fully supported from the release of 0.22 (at least in so far as the driver works, it has it's own bugs right now), the development version of MythTV has VDPAU so it's on it's wat

[10:53:19]

gbee:

way

[10:53:59]

gbee:

and yes, MythTV runs fine on the Atom, I've been doing so for months

[10:54:35]

justinh:

next question is gonna be "great, so when's 0.22 out..."...

[10:54:42]

soccerties:

True its just gonna be sweet when we have it. Im not running myth in hd yet, but things like the ion and vdpau will make it more of a reality for me

[10:55:14]

gbee:

heh, people talking rubbish on the mailing list again, about subjects of which they have no knowledge

[10:55:27]

soccerties:

Btw .22??? ;)

[10:56:05]

** gbee just bought a dual core CPU ... instant HD support **

[10:56:11]

justinh:

last Q 2009, optimistic estimate.

[10:56:32]

soccerties:

Gbee what is your atom setup like

[10:56:39]

gbee:

third Q would be my guess

[10:56:56]

gbee:

soccerties: like a netbook ... because it is

[10:57:10]

gbee:

one

[10:57:58]

soccerties:

Eee? I have a n800 havent tackled getting mythfrontend on it yet though

[11:00:16]

justinh:

ugh. avenard is at it again trying to patch -fixes with trunky tickets

[11:01:36]

gbee:

eww, not an Eee, Aspire One

[11:02:18]

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[11:02:50]

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[11:03:55]

gbee:

justinh: he seems to derive pleasure from conflict

[11:05:38]

gbee:

with that energy I wish he was interested in helping move mythtv forward rather than just getting in the way

[11:07:03]

justinh:

heh. some of us have had the foresight to hack stuff in we can't even use ourselves til the nest release :)

[11:08:25]

justinh:

s/nest/next

[11:10:05]

justinh:

I should be finished ripping my albums by the weekend, which should leave me free to get back to hacking :)

[11:13:01]

gbee:

I quite like the thread "Playback with Xine", where a guy who hasn't used the internal player for "several versions" is criticising it and fighting for mythvideo to keep external player support

[11:14:56]

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[11:16:10]

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[11:26:22]

justinh:

heh. I hate how you have to enter all the digital channel information yourself in mythtv

[11:26:29]

justinh:

oh wait, that's version 0.16

[11:27:09]

justinh:

actually I've got some AVI files which really don't play well with Internal

[11:27:41]

justinh:

I dunno what's up with them but others I created with the same process work ok

[11:28:31]

justinh:

hrm ffmpeg says "Seems stream 0 codec frame rate differs from container frame rate: 23.98 (65535/2733) -> 23.98 (23976024/1000000)"

[11:28:47]

justinh:

that might be the problem

[11:48:38]

oobe:

gbee, will the next version not have external player support in mythvideo?

[11:49:30]

sulx:

soccerties: I want myth frontend to work in my n810 also =)

[11:49:31]

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[11:50:38]

justinh:

using external players is not the real solution. making the internal player work better with more formats IS the solution :)

[11:50:54]

sulx:

true

[11:51:04]

justinh:

and the more people try the internal player and report problems they find, the better things will be for everybody

[11:51:08]

oobe:

i agree but its better to be able to have external players as an option

[11:51:12]

justinh:

nope

[11:51:20]

justinh:

it's better to play everything internally

[11:51:34]

oobe:

so there will be no internal players for the next version

[11:51:41]

justinh:

nobody's saying that yet

[11:51:47]

oobe:

what about unsupported video formats

[11:51:49]

oobe:

oh good

[11:52:07]

oobe:

wmv does play nice

[11:52:18]

justinh:

who the hell willingly uses wmv?

[11:52:21]

oobe:

only have of the mp4 i come accross do

[11:52:30]

soccerties:

Sulx https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mythtv/ our prayers have been partially answered

[11:52:38]

oobe:

justinh, i knew you would say that its not the point

[11:52:50]

oobe:

people have different needs and deserve a choice

[11:53:24]

oobe:

but yes no one willingly uses wmv

[11:53:39]

oobe:

hence needing external player when they have no choice

[11:54:06]

sulx:

soccerties: partially...

[11:54:16]

tank-man:

xbox360 owners use wmv, but i guess that isnt by user choice

[11:54:46]

justinh:

if you need to use a different player, then so be it. I wouldn't care if you need to launch that player yourself

[11:56:07]

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[11:56:13]

soccerties:

Just need some on the fly transcoding and it would do the trick, if you have wimax you got tv almost anywhere

[11:58:30]

tank-man:

get a ps3+psp, it can view the videos/recordings stored on a mythbackend and the ps3 can stream/transcode on the fly to the psp

[11:58:56]

tank-man:

n810 is too weak

[12:00:34]

soccerties:

Yes they are slow but ccapable of getting full frontend on them

[12:00:52]

justinh:

yay to mythtv on a 2" screen:-\

[12:02:24]

soccerties:

Ill take that while at work so i can watch the game

[12:03:01]

justinh:

I hope you don't operate machinery

[12:03:18]

sulx:

actually I don't even need full frontend

[12:03:20]

justinh:

or work making critical equipment

[12:03:50]

soccerties:

Im just a brain surgion...

[12:04:21]

jduggan:

lol

[12:04:25]

jduggan:

with that spelling.. ;]

[12:05:08]

[Peter]:

jduggan: it's okay, it's not like he has to write something on the brains

[12:05:29]

soccerties:

Note to self 'dont perform brain surgury / irc chat while pulling all nighter

[12:06:35]

justinh:

a surgion what does surgury. god help me

[12:06:49]

jduggan:

lol

[12:06:53]

justinh:

scalpel in one hand, phone in the other

[12:07:15]

soccerties:

Typing on an n800 isn't easy either i'm just glad i can keep up

[12:07:18]

jduggan:

no, thats not his phone, its his psp for watching mythtv

[12:07:29]

laga:

that's not a phone, that's my wife

[12:07:33]

jduggan:

lol

[12:07:37]

justinh:

rofl

[12:08:03]

justinh:

oh you said in.. not on. whoops

[12:08:13]

justinh:

my mind is filth

[12:09:57]

mzb_d800:

how do I determine the aspect ratio of an nuv recording|file ?

[12:10:00]

jduggan:

sure is

[12:10:16]

justinh:

ffmpeg?

[12:10:25]

mzb_d800:

hmm

[12:11:05]

justinh:

Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 592x320, 25 fps(r)

[12:11:13]

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[12:11:49]

justinh:

gawd it's cold at my deak

[12:11:51]

justinh:

*desk

[12:11:59]

jduggan:

its cold everywhere

[12:12:03]

jduggan:

even my house is cold

[12:12:08]

jduggan:

and i have heaters on

[12:12:08]

jduggan:

:|

[12:12:44]

mzb_d800:

justinh: that line doesn't tell me the aspect ratio

[12:12:52]

mzb_d800:

DAR | PAR might, but which one?

[12:13:29]

thefront is now known as thefRont

[12:13:48]

mzb_d800:

DAR is the one that mplayer seems to (incorrectly) conclude with "autoaspect"

[12:13:54]

thefRont:

hey there

[12:14:33]

jduggan:

right then software raid know it alls – i created a raid5 with just two disks (coz i had to archive data off the third), evidently, my 3rd disk is a few mb smaller than the other two – can i safely shrink the md partitions on the other two disks? (slightly off topic, i realise :| )

[12:14:45]

thefRont:

I'm just curious. Why does mythtv add 3000 to every channel id?

[12:14:59]

thefRont:

so if a channel id is 16348 it appears as 19348 in mythtv

[12:15:08]

mzb_d800:

ah, DAR = PAR * (width/height)

[12:15:18]

mzb_d800:

that helps, thanks justinh ;)

[12:15:20]

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[12:17:21]

justinh:

thefRont: might be rather like the way you keep changing capitalisation of your nick :P

[12:17:55]

mzb_d800:

thefRont: my guess would be that those channels are from sourceID=3 ?

[12:18:09]

mzb_d800:

(but then I only count to ten)

[12:18:39]

** mzb_d800 takes both feet out of his mouth to double his limit ;) **

[12:19:44]

justinh:

I've never paid much attention to channel numbers. my tv watching is all about programmes :)

[12:19:59]

thefRont:

hehe

[12:22:49]

thefRont:

I'm just checking why the EPG of one multiplex doesn't get updated when I noticed this difference in channel numbers

[12:32:12]

thefRont:

damn. I don't know why, but it doesn't get the EPG for this multiplex

[12:32:50]

thefRont:

a successfull scan looks like this: http://pastebin.com/m442fcb17

[12:33:24]

justinh:

is 'useonairguide' checked for that channel?

[12:33:37]

justinh:

assuming that's how you're expecting to get EPG data of course

[12:33:47]

thefRont:

but with the multiplex I worry about, the line "EITScanner (1): Started passive scan." doesn't come up and it never gets any events

[12:34:13]

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[12:34:47]

thefRont:

the thing is, that I haven't changed any settings for any channels

[12:34:57]

thefRont:

it just stopped a few days ago

[12:35:45]

thefRont:

anyway, I will check the backend config if there is anything wrong with this particular multiplex

[12:36:11]

thefRont:

brb

[12:39:14]

justinh:

bugger. I have to reboot the windows machine because its serial port has gone inaccessible. Again

[12:42:06]

sid3windr:

hmh

[12:42:26]

sid3windr:

WAF just took a big tumble.. apparently my myth didn't record a bunch of stuff it was supposed to

[12:43:10]

laga:

ugh

[12:43:15]

sid3windr:

(i'll check the actual recording settings later to investigate ;)

[12:43:21]

sid3windr:

or should that be ;))

[12:43:22]

sid3windr:

:/

[12:43:47]

thefRont:

well, all channels in that multiplex are set to retrieve epg through dvb

[12:44:32]

thefRont:

but unfortunatly it was not listed in the transponders. could that mean anything?

[12:46:14]

laga:

eh. i need to go home. i'm *so* tired.

[12:47:35]

justinh:

thefRont: so channels you don't get epg data for have an mplex id which isn't defined? whoops. that'd pretty much explain a lot :)

[12:47:46]

justinh:

*defined in dtv_multiplex...

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[12:58:16]

thefRont:

ok, it is in the dtv_multiplex table, but it doesn't show up in the transponder list in the backend config

[12:59:23]

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[13:00:48]

thefRont:

btw, useonairguide is enabled for all channels

[13:03:37]

thefRont:

i think there is something totally screwed up

[13:06:20]

thefRont:

or I finally found the problem

[13:06:25]

justinh:

how can it be in the dtv_multiplex table yet not show up in mythtv-setup?

[13:06:54]

thefRont:

looks like mythtv has found two transponders with the same channels. one at 602mhz and one at 650mhz. it's using the wrong one at 650

[13:07:20]

thefRont:

i've updated the mplexid...hope this will do the trick

[13:07:22]

justinh:

unless the sourceid of an mplex is wrong...

[13:08:01]

thefRont:

but the transponder at 602mhz doesn't show up in mythtv-setup.

[13:08:16]

mzb_d800:

or you've got a weird situation like some of us Australian's with "translators" ;)

[13:08:54]

justinh:

maybe they moved frequency

[13:08:56]

mzb_d800:

(like a digital relay that transmits on different frequencies but doesn't rewrite the tables)

[13:09:00]

justinh:

weird stuff happens

[13:10:09]

thefRont:

yes

[13:10:28]

thefRont:

in the end, the best thing might be to prune channel and transponder list and start from zero

[13:10:29]

justinh:

broadcasters are always doing annoying stuff

[13:10:56]

mzb_d800:

btw, justinh: the situation got even more interesting recently: I added a DVB-S card and now I have two of those multiplexes from each of the states (pretty much) ... along with time zone & local differences ... makes life interesting.

[13:12:31]

mzb_d800:

eg: if all tuners are busy at (say) 7pm, it can now record (on some channels) a "later showing" at 9pm (Perth is 2 hours behind). The schedules are almost the same.

[13:12:44]

mzb_d800:

getting the grabber to place nice was the hard part ;)

[13:12:53]

justinh:

arghh why the hell isn't the first thing our units do after initialising the network port, starting ftp & telnet servicees?

[13:12:57]

thefRont:

well, it's definitively two different broadcasters sending the same multiplex on different frequencies

[13:14:03]

mzb_d800:

I now run an instance of the grabber for each region, change the TZ, readjust the xml, and then insert into DB ... seems to work. Added benefit of automatically adjusting DST differences throughout ... quite nifty

[13:15:37]

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[13:15:47]

thefRont:

mzb_d800: what exactly are you doing?

[13:16:29]

justinh:

mangling, it sounds like

[13:16:44]

mzb_d800:

3x DVB-T tuners + 1x DVB-S tuner ... the DVB-S tuner gives me 2 of the FTA multiplexes already available on DVB-T, but for each state/region in .au

[13:17:19]

justinh:

AGRHHH! YEAH!!!!!!!! GET THAT JAMES BROWN OFF YOUR FASCKING IPOD!!

[13:17:29]

mzb_d800:

the grabber is only designed to work for a single source and/or region, so I have to run multiple instances of it, adjust for the time difference, and then insert data.

[13:17:52]

mzb_d800:

(I have more DVB-T tuners, but I've recently cut down;)

[13:18:27]

mzb_d800:

thefRont: does that make sense now?

[13:19:04]

thefRont:

yes. somehow ;)

[13:19:33]

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[13:19:59]

mzb_d800:

eg: Doctor Who is on at 7:30pm, but (some woman has programmed) rubbish to be recorded on the 3 tuners instead.

[13:20:03]

thefRont:

let me guess, there is no grabber available yet which could extract the tv guide from tvbrowser?

[13:20:15]

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[13:20:27]

mzb_d800:

now the scheduler can say ... "doesn't matter, I'll get Doctor Who at 9:30pm instead"

[13:20:28]

mzb_d800:

;)

[13:21:12]

mzb_d800:

(and record from Perth/Western Australia)

[13:21:32]

mzb_d800:

no idea about tvbrowser, don't recognise the name

[13:23:12]

mzb_d800:

the .au grabber I use is more than just a single grabber ... but then I'm not sure I should mention how amazing it is in public ;)

[13:23:53]

** mzb_d800 writes down the names of the ozzies cackling in the background ;) **

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[13:25:57]

thefRont:

tvbrowser is a software package that downloads and displays program guides from different tv stations

[13:26:34]

thefRont:

but they are not allowed to give away the data. it's intended for use with tvbrowser only

[13:27:32]

thefRont:

but as the data is available as, i think serialized java objects in files on disk, it might be possible to export them

[13:27:44]

mzb_d800:

.us?

[13:28:37]

mzb_d800:

.de?

[13:28:51]

thefRont:

mainly .de

[13:28:58]

thefRont:

I've just looked in the channel listings

[13:29:06]

thefRont:

they only have listings for AFN in .us

[13:29:31]

thefRont:

but they also have .au

[13:29:31]

mzb_d800:

gee ... even .au

[13:29:40]

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[13:29:58]

thefRont:

might be interesting, eh?

[13:30:52]

mzb_d800:

nah ... they're just using _one_ of the sources for shep^H^H^H^Hthe grabber I user (if not the grabber itself)

[13:31:07]

mzb_d800:

(probably the latter judging by the link)

[13:31:13]

thefRont:

if I get to know the structure of these java objects I should be able to write a little tool that creates xmltv data

[13:31:32]

mzb_d800:

iow, they using what I've already got (I think)

[13:31:45]

thefRont:

k

[13:31:49]

thefRont:

bbl

[13:39:12]

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[13:44:34]

thefRont:

re

[13:47:07]

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[13:48:01]

thefRont:

hahaaa

[13:48:28]

thefRont:

justinh: it worked.

[13:51:52]

justinh:

FFS. this XP machine has screwed the FS on the USB HDD I copied my rips onto

[13:52:00]

justinh:

F F S

[13:52:03]

justinh:

very pissed off now

[13:52:30]

thefRont:

uhoh

[13:54:42]

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[13:55:26]

justinh:

booted the machine into linux, and am recovering what I can off it

[13:55:45]

justinh:

keeping a log of the files which fail to be read.. and all should in theory be ok

[13:56:18]

justinh:

this is what I get for just powering a machine off after it refused to 'safely remove hardware' repeatedly

[13:56:37]

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[14:02:14]

shadash:

I've been watching all the recent new hardware releases and it seems like 50–70% are new cell phone designs

[14:02:43]

shadash:

If I was a hardware designer I'd look at a different market that isn't as tapped out

[14:02:57]

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[14:03:25]

justinh:

oh. more & more dirs are just vanishing now

[14:03:37]

justinh:

thanks again, windows, you steaming pile of excrement

[14:09:58]

justinh:

there. that's sorted it. I'll be ripping all the discs again. yay

[14:10:06]

justinh:

and the 300GB drive is now in the bin

[14:10:32]

justinh:

so, third time lucky, maybe

[14:11:20]

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[14:14:35]

shadash:

have you tried rebooting ;-)

[14:15:18]

thefRont:

justinh: don't put it in the bin. reformatting should do it

[14:18:36]

justinh:

needs to be put in the bin after being twatted off the desk repeatedly

[14:19:19]

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[14:19:24]

justinh:

it probably wasn't a healthy drive anyway, just one from my 'old HDDs' pile at home

[14:22:07]

gbee:

it's funny, I've never lost any files when hotplugging drives and flash media in linux without 'safely removing' it, yet Windows seems to trash things when you try the same

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[14:23:25]

[Peter]:

gbee: I think you've just been lucky, I've seen umount take quite some time to finish. And I guess the data wouldn't be good without the write back it did

[14:23:45]

justinh:

gbee: that might just be because windows leaves it til just power you power down to finish writing files

[14:24:45]

justinh:

or something... I mean who really knows wtf windows is doing when it's 'shutting down' :)

[14:25:07]

gbee:

that's not to say that I don't 'safely remove' the devices when I remember, although for a time that option disappeared entirely from Mandriva

[14:26:11]

gbee:

I've never seen umount take more than a fraction of a second with a removable drive ... might be down to differences in the distro configuration or software in use

[14:26:28]

** jduggan never clicked that windows thing that sys 'safely remove hardware' **

[14:26:31]

jduggan:

:\

[14:26:41]

jduggan:

i just pull it

[14:26:42]

jduggan:

:|

[14:26:51]

justinh:

I just throw it

[14:26:54]

justinh:

might aswell

[14:27:29]

justinh:

I think I'll just re-rip all my discs in linux, on the native fs they're gonna end up living on anyway

[14:27:35]

justinh:

so it'll take much longer

[14:27:45]

gbee:

I once pulled a scanner while it was in use, there was a loud pop followed by smoke out of the rear of the machine

[14:27:50]

justinh:

and so I'll have to do the tags myself because grip doesn't tag flacs.. but hey

[14:28:26]

gbee:

justinh: mythmusic will tag flacs in 0.22, hopefully

[14:29:45]

justinh:

doesn't do it now? just aswell I'm not using it then

[14:30:12]

justinh:

arguments against doing it on windows again are many, despite the rippers being much better

[14:30:25]

justinh:

1. samba really sucks my network to bits

[14:30:34]

gbee:

think it does, but I'll be certain by 0.22 because it will use taglib

[14:30:40]

justinh:

2. ntfs reading in linux.. I don't really trust it

[14:31:27]

jduggan:

i never had issues with ntfs in linux, even while it was 'experimental' status

[14:32:09]

justinh:

actually I could just use scp

[14:32:14]

justinh:

that'd be faster

[14:34:17]

justinh:

snaffled a good sony optical drive to rip with, so that should at least get me going better than before. what a chore it's all become :-\

[14:34:34]

justinh:

be easy if I was content with mp3 or apple's guff

[14:34:38]

justinh:

then I'd just use itunes

[14:35:49]

** jduggan does not have good enough aduio equipment to notice between mp3 and flac **

[14:37:33]

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[14:39:20]

shadash:

I can hear the difference between mp3 and flac

[14:39:33]

thefRont:

me too

[14:39:59]

shadash:

kinda like the difference between svideo and component visually

[14:40:08]

thefRont:

yup

[14:40:16]

jduggan:

i bet you couldnt using standard toshiba tv speakers

[14:40:17]

Dibblah:

NTFS reading in Linux is reliable.

[14:40:19]

shadash:

It's still the same channel but just better

[14:40:22]

jduggan:

sporting SRS wow!

[14:40:39]

justinh:

SRS whut? ;)

[14:40:43]

jduggan:

heh

[14:41:14]

shadash:

in fact I can hear the difference between mp3 and wave files

[14:41:36]

shadash:

I can't usually hear the difference between wave and flac

[14:41:48]

[Peter]:

shadash: but sometimes?

[14:42:12]

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[14:42:18]

shadash:

I think if you have a 3d stereo setup you can hear more with flac

[14:42:29]

[Peter]:

ok!

[14:42:30]

shadash:

but I'm not really sure

[14:42:48]

shadash:

I just know what I hear

[14:43:06]

[Peter]:

so you hear a difference sometimes between flac and wav? :)

[14:43:10]

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[14:43:17]

Ryushin:

Okay, so what do I need for a Direct TV Setup? IR Blasters, HD-PVR. Anything else?

[14:43:41]

shadash:

I said that I can't but I think there is a difference when it comes to surround sound

[14:43:59]

shadash:

I haven't looked at it that closely

[14:44:23]

[Peter]:

shadash: flac is just lossless compression, in other words the flac version would be exactly the same as the wav

[14:44:55]

justinh:

not quite

[14:45:06]

justinh:

there are quick & dirty encodes

[14:45:06]

shadash:

I have played guitar for over 20 years and can play by ear. With mp3's it's harder to hear indivigal instruments

[14:46:03]

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[14:46:12]

shadash:

if you're trying to consentrate on what one person is playing it's harder to do with an mp3 than a wave file

[14:47:01]

[Peter]:

justinh: that kind of contradicts the name of the format though :) Free Lossless Audio Codec

[14:47:07]

shadash:

that and surround sound elements are the only differences that I've been able to detect

[14:47:25]

justinh:

[Peter]: do quick dirty encoding, taking shortcuts... stuff will get lost

[14:47:36]

justinh:

why else would flac have an option for it?

[14:48:05]

[Peter]:

justinh: http://flac.sourceforge.net/features.html

[14:48:36]

[Peter]:

justinh: I would guess quick dirty encoding would result in a larger file

[14:49:07]

Dibblah:

You don't hear a difference between .wav and .flac?

[14:49:13]

Dibblah:

Now there's a shock. ;)

[14:49:16]

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[14:49:21]

justinh:

in == out.. apparently

[14:49:21]

Dibblah:

flac being... Lossless and all.

[14:50:03]

justinh:

nope. this machine is f***ed

[14:50:15]

justinh:

"muh it was working before I tried to upgrade it" my arse

[14:50:46]

Dibblah:

Ooooh. Didn't notice the multi media type streaming stuff going in :)

[14:50:50]

justinh:

even re-JTAGging it wasn't enough.. so erm. hrm. it bwoked!

[14:57:25]

thefRont:

if you export an audio cd to flac, the only part where errors can happen is while ripping the audio from cd

[14:57:53]

justinh:

really?! OMG

[14:58:05]

justinh:

you're full of useful information!

[14:58:10]

thefRont:

hehe, I know

[14:58:37]

[Peter]:

thefRont: but what if there's a bug in the flac encoder?

[14:58:44]

[Peter]:

thefRont: I'd call that an error! :)

[14:59:37]

justinh:

and if you rip discs in sound juicer, they come out full of errors

[14:59:46]

justinh:

absolutely no checking at all done in there

[14:59:53]

thefRont:

yummy

[15:00:48]

justinh:

it's really quick though!

[15:01:15]

justinh:

heh. naughty Fox news

[15:02:04]

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dustybin:

at work on IRC wooooo

[15:40:24]

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[15:43:29]

mkrufky:

stoth found this.......

[15:43:30]

mkrufky:

http://www.geektonic.com/2009/02/deal-of-day- . . . pvr-173.html

[15:43:36]

mkrufky:

HD-PVR for $173 today only

[15:43:45]

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[15:51:53]

gbee:

justinh: Fox news?

[15:52:59]

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[16:15:58]

iamlindoro_:

Well, that guy is officially a maroon. I've done my part to be polite, but some people are happier complaining that taking the barest of steps to get it fixed.

[16:16:19]

iamlindoro_:

after all, if it got fixed, what would he have to complain about?

[16:17:17]

sphery:

gbee: justinh leaves himself subscribed to -users but sets the option to no delivery ("vacation mode"). I.e. after subscribing, fill in e-mail on the bottom textbox at http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users and hit "Unsubscribe or edit options." After logging in, set "Mail delivery" to "Disabled." Then, you can send, but you won't get any e-mails.

[16:17:30]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: heh

[16:18:05]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: I was surprised to find that you're a right-thinking individual (based on who agrees with you).

[16:18:54]

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[16:19:09]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Heh

[16:19:27]

iamlindoro_:

I mean really, knowing me, I must say that I was trying to be very diplomatic in that thread

[16:19:29]

iamlindoro_:

but SHEESH!

[16:20:41]

sphery:

yeah... like you said--he just wants to complain

[16:21:20]

sphery:

after all, if you can't code and you're not artistic, or are just plain lazy, the only way to contribute is by being an "idea man"

[16:21:41]

iamlindoro_:

Hek, his weren't even ideas

[16:21:43]

iamlindoro_:

er heck

[16:21:53]

sphery:

actually, "if you can't code and you're not artistic and you can't write (documentation)"

[16:22:24]

iamlindoro_:

It was just bashing Internal accompanied by an obstinate refusal to help fix it

[16:22:25]

sphery:

When did an "idea man" actually have an idea?

[16:22:37]

_abbenormal:

wow that does not sound like you iamlindoro_ you taking it easy

[16:22:59]

iamlindoro_:

We all have bad days ;)

[16:22:59]

_abbenormal:

oh hi also

[16:23:07]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: well, obviously we wouldn't understand because we don't have W's, therefore, aren't affected by WAF...

[16:23:10]

_abbenormal:

not you never

[16:23:29]

iamlindoro_:

I have bad days where I'm accidentally nice

[16:23:29]

_abbenormal:

anyway mornin guys

[16:23:40]

_abbenormal:

lol

[16:24:11]

_abbenormal:

anyway just saying hi

[16:24:18]

iamlindoro_:

hi _abbenormal

[16:24:20]

sphery:

hi

[16:26:09]

iamlindoro_:

Edit the patch, la la la, edit the patch...

[16:26:25]

iamlindoro_:

Maybe for the last time on this one :)

[16:27:21]

gbee:

sphery: interesting

[16:29:11]

sphery:

Just reading http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/354783#354783 and the linked thread... I just don't get why he won't admit that the "Set Priorities" page was designed to set recording rule priorities... I guess he thinks the devs are idiots "whom aren't use they words good," so they didn't know how to say, "Recording Rules" or "Recording Schedules", so they went with, "Set Priorities" even though it isn't ...

[16:29:17]

sphery:

... about priorities... :)

[16:32:59]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: you're such a Microsoftie... :)

[16:33:06]

iamlindoro_:

That's me

[16:33:17]

** iamlindoro_ embraces and extends into sphery's living room **

[16:35:26]

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[16:35:36]

gbee:

sphery: definately a few places where the language could be improved, some of it seems willfully obscure while other bits are just too geeky, too wordy or not wordy enough

[16:36:25]

jams:

gbee speaking of works, did those descriptions work for you?

[16:36:55]

jams:

words not works

[16:38:27]

gbee:

jams: they were fine, it just slipped my mind, sorry :)

[16:38:48]

jams:

cool

[16:38:58]

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[16:38:59]

jams:

the xml patch is alittle out of date now, but nothing you can't handle

[16:39:20]

jams:

in fact i think it was you who broke it (mythcontrols)

[16:40:04]

sphery:

gbee: Yeah, just thinking that page is all about priorities, so changing its name isn't the solution... I did make the "other page" on #5759 (which you now own). It's actually the same code extended to allow more data, but I included XML for a different page as I'm pretty sure bjm will complain if anything happens to Set Priorities.

[16:40:25]

gbee:

Manage Priorities would be better than Set Priorities

[16:40:53]

sphery:

that would work for me...

[16:41:01]

sphery:

but he's complaining about the priorities part

[16:41:14]

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[16:41:33]

gbee:

sphery: have a screenshot of the new page? I work better with visual aids :)

[16:41:53]

_abbenormal:

lol

[16:42:04]

gbee:

the whole focus of the existing page is editing priorities

[16:42:33]

gbee:

as anyone who had to theme it with the old UI would attest

[16:42:36]

sphery:

heh, seems I didn't make one... Guess I'm too new to this UI-stuff...

[16:42:42]

thefRont:

re

[16:42:43]

jams:

yeah it was pain

[16:42:44]

sphery:

Give me about 10 mins and I'll have one

[16:42:47]

thefRont:

now running xchat

[16:42:51]

jams:

[ ] [] +

[16:43:05]

gbee:

aye, just nasty

[16:43:10]

jams:

that was one of the more annoying screens

[16:43:54]

jams:

glad you got it, otherwise it looked like a cat walking across the keyboard.

[16:44:00]

gbee:

sphery: I will get around to reviewing the patch itself

[16:45:40]

sphery:

gbee: Yeah, but I should have made some... I thought I had, but I don't see them on my webserver.

[16:48:57]

sphery:

Go Athlon X2 5200! Compile! (I'm starting to think that 10mins was a bit optimistic after the MythVideo changes I'm having to compile.)

[16:48:58]

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[16:49:29]

iamlindoro_:

Thought I had my patch all sorted out, but I seem to have forgotten how/why I did at least one thing

[16:49:32]

iamlindoro_:

stupid brain

[16:50:44]

wagnerrp:

sphery: 10 minutes being optimistic? i usually do most of mythplugins in about 12 minutes on a 3200

[16:51:38]

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[16:51:49]

sphery:

well, had to boot the dev box, run configure, and do a full compile (of mythtv--I'm skipping plugins for now)... It's been 9 minutes, and I'm now on the compile stage.

[16:52:15]

sphery:

full compile with some ccache help, of course

[16:53:54]

sphery:

oh, the mythvideo changes were storage group changes... that's why they're affecting a non-plugins build

[16:54:11]

sphery:

I finally figured out what part of what I was saying made no sense

[16:55:09]

sphery:

d'oh... compile failure on unchanged source... I bet GreyFoxx doesn't build with --enable-symbol-visibility

[16:55:45]

shadash:

Ugh installing Oracle on a 64bit Sparc is a PITA

[16:58:45]

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[16:59:03]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin, or GreyFoxx: Remind me because it's been a while and now I can't remember what/why I did this-- a query.value(#) in metadata.cpp's MetadataImp::FromDBRow maps to the position in the MetadataListManager::loadAllFromDatabase in metadatalist manager, right?

[16:59:32]

iamlindoro_:

ie # = the position in the BaseMetadataQuery, I think?

[17:00:18]

clever:

its the position in the sql query

[17:00:37]

iamlindoro_:

clever: I'm aware of that, I'm asking if I have it right *which* query

[17:01:17]

clever:

the last query ran on the 'query' object

[17:01:23]

iamlindoro_:

clever: No.

[17:01:25]

iamlindoro_:

Don't help

[17:03:27]

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[17:03:33]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: I don't know why, the ListManager has an order that has no relation to the DB

[17:05:00]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin: I've updated the patch to account for GreyFoxx's recent changes, and it's working fine here, just wanted to make sure I had my head wrapped around any DB changes (as mine will have a different order than anyone else's w/ screenshot/fanart/banner coming before host)

[17:05:44]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin: But it appears the Position #s in MetadataImp::FromDBRow don't have a direct relation to... erm... well, anything, actually.

[17:06:13]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: I'm sure it will be fine, I've been doing nothing but peeking in here when it beeps for the last few weeks, should get a chance to look at things in a few hours though.

[17:06:17]

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[17:06:34]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: Yeah I can't imagine it would, or should.

[17:06:45]

iamlindoro_:

OK, sounds great, I'll upload what I've got and if it breaks somewhere you'll know where I got confused :) But it's working here, anyway

[17:07:01]

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[17:07:08]

sphery:

So, I realize the plan is to get rid of them, but I have to wonder why we 2 identical copies of encodeLongLong() and decodeLongLong() (in libs/libmyth/util.cpp --not exported, and libs/libmythdb/decodeencode.{h,cpp} --exported)

[17:07:18]

sphery:

why we /have/

[17:08:45]

Anduin:

probably no good reason, they were in util originally but mythdb should be at the bottom of the dep pile

[17:10:57]

sphery:

No biggie, since it's going away now that we have Qt4.

[17:11:42]

sphery:

Anduin: you wouldn't happen to have tracked down what I'm presuming is a symbol-visibility-related linking error in GreyFoxx's new MythVideo Storage Groups code, yet, have you?

[17:12:12]

sphery:

If not, don't worry about it, but just don't want to waste time redoing what you've already done.

[17:12:17]

Anduin:

sphery: Nope, not yet, I've built from new sources once in the last two weeks and not recently

[17:12:42]

sphery:

OK. Once I get it figured out, I'll post a patch for you.

[17:12:50]

Anduin:

I'll be doing a checkout, some sort of ceremony where I hope for few conflicts, and a built soon

[17:13:19]

sphery:

You'll never guess which functions it relates to... encodeLongLong() and decodeLongLong()

[17:16:58]

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[17:18:16]

iamlindoro_:

Anduin: I don't know if it's of any value of you to have my patch to to the auto-download of fanart, or if you just want to hold off on that until you have your new downloading stuff checked in?

[17:18:54]

iamlindoro_:

If you want something that works well in the meantime so that people can start playing with it, I've got the patch attached, although it's a bit of a hack (mostly just a caopy/paste/modify of the coverart download stuff

[17:19:01]

iamlindoro_:

s/caopy/copy/

[17:19:25]

Anduin:

iamlindoro_: include it, my stuff is exactly where it was, I may be able to finish it by the end of the weekend

[17:19:45]

iamlindoro_:

OK, it's in there from about 11 days ago, should still work with some offsets

[17:20:04]

iamlindoro_:

But it works for now until you get something better in

[17:20:19]

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[17:22:41]

Anduin:

thanks, I'll try to look at it today

[17:24:20]

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[17:24:44]

GreyFoxx:

sphery: Nope, I've never used that compile option

[17:25:05]

GreyFoxx:

I honestly don't know what benefit it would provide me so I've never tried it :)

[17:25:47]

GreyFoxx:

util.cpp should have the encode/decodelonglong removed as part of my commit

[17:26:06]

sphery:

really?

[17:26:32]

GreyFoxx:

http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Visibility just read that

[17:26:38]

GreyFoxx:

it does look very useful

[17:26:51]

sphery:

yeah, smaller binaries, faster...

[17:27:05]

sphery:

very nice (though a lot of work for Anduin to keep up to date since few use it :)

[17:27:21]

Anduin:

Yeah, like me, and now I know sphery

[17:27:32]

GreyFoxx:

I'm going to start now

[17:27:42]

sphery:

But don't try to use it on 64-bit builds if using GCC 4.1.0 or 4.1.1

[17:27:49]

GreyFoxx:

anything that makes smaller/faster is good to me :)

[17:27:56]

sphery:

(unless you have a gcc with backported patches that fix it :)

[17:28:09]

Anduin:

the faster bit is, well, you won't notice

[17:28:27]

sphery:

yeah, but the memory usage is noticeable

[17:28:34]

sphery:

and we all know how expensive RAM is :)

[17:28:39]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[17:29:10]

sphery:

So, GreyFoxx : http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . til.cpp#L440 show encodeLongLong() in util.cpp, still

[17:29:15]

janneg:

to expensive to store recordings in it

[17:29:36]

janneg:

upgrade my workstation to 6G last month

[17:29:40]

sphery:

I'll admit that much is true. Of course, a 20% larger binary is another story...

[17:29:55]

GreyFoxx:

sphery: I must have accidentaly overwritten my util.cpp or something

[17:30:17]

sphery:

I tried just removing them (so the exported ones were all that's there), but still had the same build failure.

[17:30:32]

** GreyFoxx does a make on a fresh checkout to see if it complains **

[17:30:33]

sphery:

it's in all the programs, like mythtv, mythjobqueue, mythfrontend, ...

[17:30:36]

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[17:30:51]

sphery:

I'm guessing it's only with --enable-symbol-visibility

[17:31:04]

GreyFoxx:

yeah I used that for this compile

[17:31:23]

sphery:

cool

[17:31:28]

GreyFoxx:

janneg: I'm still bugging work to update my machine from 2G :)

[17:31:37]

GreyFoxx:

I hit that ceiling all the time

[17:31:38]

sphery:

as I'm not having a lot of luck finding the issue causing the linking error

[17:32:03]

sphery:

My most powerful system (mythfrontend box) has only 2GB.

[17:32:13]

GreyFoxx:

same here for my home stuff :)

[17:33:17]

sphery:

I just bought a laptop with Vista Home Premium, but I got it with 1GB RAM (of which 256MB is used for the video card) and Vista was unusable. Of course, I bought it with the intent to replace Vista with GNU/Linux, so, now it has more than enough RAM.

[17:34:17]

Anduin:

sphery: I see the errors, looking now

[17:35:12]

sphery:

Thanks... It wasn't the most obvious (missing MPUBLIC on a lib function declaration), so I'm still digging.

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[17:37:00]

sphery:

GreyFoxx: IIRC, the reason Anduin implemented --enable-symbol-visibility was the 4th benefit on that page, "Much lower chance of symbol collision," because some of the ATI drivers used libs that collided with some we used.

[17:37:14]

Anduin:

sphery: I'm mostly sure it is just a missing #include "decodeencode.h" in decodeencode.cpp

[17:37:21]

sphery:

and now he's stuck maintaining it for, er, me...

[17:37:41]

sphery:

(and I don't even use ATI on my myth box :)

[17:37:46]

sphery:

Anduin: that makes sense

[17:37:48]

Anduin:

That was a side benefit

[17:38:11]

Anduin:

after that change I'm further, I'll commit after the build is done

[17:39:27]

sphery:

thanks... I don't think I would have ever found that (as I was looking at every use of encodeLongLong() and decodeLongLong() once I saw that decodeencode.h had the MPUBLIC's)

[17:42:14]

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[17:43:38]

gbee:

sphery: you say the difference memory usage is noticable, care to put some esimated figure on that? I might start using the symbol visibility stuff if it does indeed make decent difference

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[17:47:27]

sphery:

gbee: I haven't looked in a while...

[17:48:05]

gbee:

k, I might get around to it eventually

[17:48:10]

sphery:

I can run some pmap's for you, but (since getting this screen shot is taking longer than I expected), it may have to wait until next week (as I'm running out of week).

[17:48:12]

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[17:48:37]

iamlindoro_:

Must be some screenshot :)

[17:49:05]

gbee:

sphery: don't worry about the screenshot (or the memory), just curiousity, didn't mean to put you to any trouble

[17:49:20]

sphery:

It's actually and estimated 5–20% size reduction on DSO's, but since we're using C++, we're probably closer to the upper end.

[17:49:43]

sphery:

gbee: you're the /last/ person in the world who should be apologizing for putting anyone else to any trouble...

[17:49:51]

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[17:50:27]

Anduin:

when I first did it the binary sizes were a few MBs total smaller, that would be the max savings

[17:50:28]

sphery:

gbee: As much work as you put into Myth, you should be giving orders and people should be expected to do your bidding under penalty of loss of Myth.

[17:52:18]

gbee:

Anduin: right, so not huge, but meaningful maybe to someone wanting to run on a low spec platform

[17:52:53]

gbee:

it's not exactly going to solve my lack of memory issues when I've already got 4 Gb :)

[17:52:54]

sphery:

and--assuming it's all working--no harm for others :)

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[18:00:08]

benklop_:

hello everyone

[18:00:43]

benklop_:

i'm using mythwelcome and mythshutdown to save power. it seems to be working well as far as actually shutting down and starting up goes..

[18:01:05]

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[18:01:07]

benklop_:

but i'm getting crazy amounts of corruption in the video stream from my hd home run after i've rebooted.\

[18:01:26]

benklop_:

if i wait about 1/2 hour afoter the machine comes on, there's no corruption

[18:01:30]

benklop_:

any ideas?

[18:01:32]

sphery:

Anduin: doesn't decodeencode.h need #include "mythexp.h"

[18:02:35]

Anduin:

sphery: it need is somewhere above in the TU

[18:04:37]

Anduin:

(so people wanting to #include "decodeencode.h" only will lose, odds are they have something that will pull in mythexp.h)

[18:05:02]

sphery:

It didn't build for me without... Let me try your committed version of the change...

[18:05:41]

Anduin:

Ok, builds here for me, did you put it above the mythverbose.h include in your version?

[18:05:59]

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[18:06:22]

sphery:

Yeah... Let me try again, though, as I was on 19980, so things may have changed

[18:08:17]

GreyFoxx:

build fine for me with Anduins change

[18:09:14]

sphery:

may be my ancient gcc :)... Just updated and testing compile, now

[18:12:32]

sphery:

Anduin: it was my putting #include "decodeencode.h" above the mythverbose.h include

[18:12:50]

sphery:

so it builds fine with your change... I see what you meant, now.

[18:13:56]

sphery:

since mythverbose.h includes mythexp.h, the order is important unless you explicitly import mythexp.h in decodeencode.h

[18:14:08]

sphery:

and, thanks a lot for fixing it.

[18:15:12]

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[18:23:23]

iamlindoro_:

That is the best commit message ever

[18:23:38]

iamlindoro_:

And... slightly creepy

[18:24:11]

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[18:26:11]

GreyFoxx:

heh

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[18:27:25]

gbee:

hah, brilliant

[18:28:05]

sphery:

so, I figured out gbee's plan... make me get a screenshot so I have to figure out why the patch won't apply (because /someone/ moved manage_recordings.xml to themes/defaultmenu--something I actually thanked him for doing)

[18:28:32]

** gbee chuckles **

[18:28:51]

sphery:

I even marked that commit message in blue (TODO)--knowing that I'd have to change my patch for it--but forgot about it

[18:29:36]

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[18:29:36]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v kormoc

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[18:31:59]

sphery:

I wonder how long it will be before the slowness of loading a new screen using the Qt painter (which I do since I use ssh -Y to redisplay the frontend that's running on my dev box to the monitor I actually work with) takes more of my time than debugging the slowness would take...

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[18:37:32]

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[18:42:27]

shadash:

can someone help me quickly... I have a file 10gr2_db_sol.cpio.gz on the oracle website it says that the checksum is 873,334,160 bytes cksum – 1491417549 when I run cksum on the file I get this... cksum 10gr2_db_sol.cpio.gz 3556845883 873334160 10gr2_db_sol.cpio.gz

[18:43:07]

gbee:

a lot of the old UI screens are impossibily slow to load for some reason, started happening around the time of the initial QT4 port and seems to have become worse as more and more screens are ported to mythui

[18:43:09]

shadash:

bytes looks the same but 1491417549 != 3556845883

[18:43:16]

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[18:43:39]

gbee:

not inclined to spend time debugging it and I'm not sure that's what you are talking about anyway

[18:43:57]

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[18:45:21]

shadash:

Ahh figured it out the freakin Oracle site has a corrupted download on it!

[18:45:38]

shadash:

grrrr waste an hour of my time

[18:45:40]

sphery:

gbee: yeah, that's probably what it is... I just thought it was Qt painter (as it seems fast with OpenGL painter). Your time is definitely better spent working on other things. If it bugs me enough (and doesn't disappear when you finish converting to mythui), I may take a look at it eventually.

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[18:58:04]

gbee:

if it's restricted to the QT painter then it might be a different problem, I don't test the QT painter as often as I probably should, but the issues I'm seeing are when using the GL painter and unported windows – program guide, mythmusic, schedule editor etc

[19:03:18]

benklop_:

tucking an ethernet cable around Romex (115VAC) really makes mythtv stream video like crap....

[19:03:31]

benklop_:

:-D

[19:03:32]

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[19:06:34]

jamesd:

benklop_, 100mbit? gigabit? what quality of cable cat5? cat5e?

[19:06:44]

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[19:07:31]

benklop_:

cat5e plenum rated, 100mbit, this is a cable going between a switch and my myth backend, the video is from an hdHomeRun

[19:07:39]

iamlindoro_:

BNC, 1 Mbit

[19:07:45]

iamlindoro_:

So some reason HD streaming sucks

[19:07:49]

iamlindoro_:

er for some

[19:07:49]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[19:08:40]

benklop_:

jamesd: i've spent the better part of a month trying to figure out why sometimes my video is clean, and other times random bits of the mpeg stream drop out...

[19:08:42]

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[19:09:34]

sphery:

gbee: the issue I'm talking about is only in the menus (and--I'm pretty sure--only with Qt painter). Don't worry about it, though. I'll try looking into it sometime. (Might be related to that image scaling thing you were talking about--scaling an image /way/ too large because of bad multipliers, or whatever.)

[19:09:52]

benklop_:

jamesd: turns out it gets all crappy when I turned on the basement lights (power through the romex) because to keep the cable up on the ceiling, I tucked it behind the power wiring...

[19:10:16]

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[19:11:02]

benklop_:

iamlindoro_: yes. yes, that would suck. for 1080p, 16 seconds off, 1 second on...

[19:11:14]

sphery:

yeah, network cables like to be perpendicular to power cables

[19:11:46]

benklop_:

sphery: I knew the principle, but this is the first time I have ever seen any measurable degradation from it...

[19:12:04]

benklop_:

and its been driving me up the wall...

[19:12:17]

sphery:

or through the ceiling, as the case may be

[19:12:32]

benklop_:

heheh

[19:12:58]

benklop_:

does the hdhomerun send video over UDP?

[19:14:06]

benklop_:

because that would explain why the packets just disappear, rather than getting resent..

[19:16:05]

sphery:

I'm pretty sure it does

[19:16:46]

sphery:

Control is over TCP, video streams over UDP.

[19:17:20]

sphery:

straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/216178#216178

[19:18:58]

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[19:19:50]

benklop_:

cool.. knowing that sooner would have made me look at the cable more closely I think..

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[19:33:47]

clever:

sphery: ive also got alot of ethernet cords running near power

[19:34:02]

clever:

could be why im getting dhcp problems

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[19:46:18]

laga:

Dibblah: i do have more time new. anything specific you need help with in trac?

[19:46:24]

laga:

Dibblah: or just the same old?

[19:50:46]

JEDIDIAH__:

UDP? it's like a fell into a time machine...

[19:52:56]

iamlindoro_:

What's the problem with UDP? It's totally appropriate for many purposes, it's not like TCP replaces UDP or something

[19:53:05]

sphery:

UDP is good because it lacks error checking

[19:53:24]

jduggan:

and overhead

[19:54:47]

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[19:54:56]

jduggan:

sphery: lack of error checking can be bad to :P – it's good in /some/ applications :)

[19:55:18]

sphery:

right, it's good when you don't need it (i.e. real-time data like video) or when another layer provides it

[19:55:21]

jduggan:

realtime media where a lost segment would delay audio or video for example, :P

[19:55:21]

iamlindoro_:

exactly, right tool, right job

[19:55:35]

sphery:

(i.e. why waste the effort error checking twice)

[19:55:36]

JEDIDIAH__:

TCP replaces attempts to re-invent TCP because you decided to avoid the "overhead" .

[19:55:44]

sphery:

in this case, though, realtime was the reason

[19:56:01]

iamlindoro_:

UDP makes perfect sense for a transport stream which has FEC

[19:56:38]

clever:

FEC?

[19:56:41]

jduggan:

then ofcourse there are people that use UDP and do error checking @ application level – i guess they thinking they can do a better job than TCP :)

[19:56:56]

iamlindoro_:

clever: Forward Error Correction, redundant data

[19:56:58]

JEDIDIAH__:

that was the first thing I thought of jd

[19:57:05]

clever:

ahh:)

[19:57:26]

JEDIDIAH__:

...sounds entirely too sensible for an American standard.

[19:57:37]

sphery:

jduggan: well, with some things--ssh, for example--application-level error checking is kind of required

[19:57:37]

clever:

im adding some seq#'s to some udp packets im using to detect lost packets

[19:57:47]

clever:

not realy trying to resend them at this point

[19:58:26]

jduggan:

sphery: sure

[19:58:37]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: I'm now learning about the FECal nature of transport streams...

[19:58:48]

** JEDIDIAH__ groans **

[19:59:00]

jduggan:

lol

[19:59:01]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Heh, they're only Fecal when Comcast makes them 6 Mbit :)

[19:59:05]

sphery:

I didn't realize that the streams could provide that

[19:59:35]

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[20:00:37]

sphery:

Better terminology for the reason UDP is appropriate for real-time video streaming: "Unregulated send rate."

[20:00:58]

clever:

yeah i can see how that would be alot more usefull for video

[20:01:01]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: Believe it's parity packets in TS, so if "X" parity packets remain it can recover

[20:01:01]

sphery:

(i.e. doesn't have the congestion-control mechanism that TCP has)

[20:01:03]

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[20:01:50]

iamlindoro_:

sphery: I think a higher rate of FEC parity packets is used in satellite as opposed to cable, but TTBOMK both use it

[20:03:47]

sphery:

one of these days, I'll take some time to learn how digital video actually works...

[20:07:33]

iamlindoro_:

That reminds me, I need to look at Greyfoxx's commits and suss out how to get the other stuff into storage groups

[20:08:30]

janneg:

iamlindoro_: DVB-S uses two layers of FEC while DVB-C only one

[20:08:40]

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[20:08:43]

iamlindoro_:

There ya go, straight from the authority :)

[20:11:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

no... I think "it's in there" is a more appropriate justification for UDP.

[20:12:59]

JEDIDIAH__:

...the error handling is in the data.

[20:13:17]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: looks like "if (item->Host() != "") { filename = GenRemoteFileURL("Videos", item->Host(), item->Filename()); }" is what I want to emulate in using SG's for the other metadata?

[20:15:01]

iamlindoro_:

ie create an SG for each type, and then implement a check in each Get$SOMEMETADATA() function?

[20:15:15]

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dustybin:

iamlindoro_ is getting flash with coding

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[20:36:33]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: looks like GetRemoteFileList(QString host, QString path, QStringList* list) is hardcoded to the videos SG, what do you think about changing it to GetRemoteFileList(QString host, QString path, QString group, QStringList* list) so that you can pass it a group name (and I can use it for other stuff)

[20:37:00]

GreyFoxx:

Absolutely.

[20:37:36]

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[20:38:21]

GreyFoxx:

Fixing that now

[20:38:25]

iamlindoro_:

Thanks!

[20:41:10]

GreyFoxx:

ok, just a quick test and I'll commit it

[20:41:17]

iamlindoro_:

nice, thanks again

[20:41:19]

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[20:44:19]

GreyFoxx:

commited

[20:45:02]

iamlindoro_:

You're the man, thanks-- still have a fair understanding gap, but it's congealing :)

[20:45:31]

justinh:

phew. good thing I backed up everything up to what I'd ripped the other night :)

[20:46:01]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: hey you'll be able to fix up my hack soon :)

[20:46:12]

justinh:

if not already

[20:46:16]

iamlindoro_:

Pffft!

[20:46:20]

iamlindoro_:

All greek to me

[20:46:38]

iamlindoro_:

I just make the pretty pictures

[20:46:48]

justinh:

really? so you don't know how to er.. damn I forgot what the new method has to do now

[20:47:28]

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[20:47:31]

iamlindoro_:

heh

[20:47:41]

justinh:

hahaha. a disc eject just freaked the dog out & he barked at the pc

[20:47:48]

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[20:48:56]

dustybin:

justinh: cruelty to animals will not be justified

[20:49:15]

justinh:

that rules out picking on folks from warrington then

[20:49:22]

dustybin:

lol

[20:50:26]

justinh:

btw that 'news' about fox news I chuckled at earlier turned out to be a colleague reading out an item from some conspiracy website. something about fox flashing subliminal pictures of McCain last year

[20:50:43]

justinh:

I watched the clip eventually... load of tosh

[20:50:53]

justinh:

more likely to be a DVE slipup

[20:51:18]

dustybin:

typical americans

[20:51:19]

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[20:51:52]

iamlindoro_:

dustybin: No dumping on other nationalities when you're such an embarrassment to yours

[20:51:57]

justinh:

more like 'typical conspiracy nuts'

[20:52:03]

benklop_:

what is the usability of the QT4 port like at this point?

[20:52:04]

dustybin:

lol

[20:52:25]

justinh:

benklop_: it's pretty much all qt4 now, and some people use it a lot

[20:52:32]

justinh:

trunk is still trunk though, so YMMV

[20:52:34]

benklop_:

is it somewhat stable / at least not completely breaking the database every time?

[20:52:44]

benklop_:

er every time you upgrade i mean

[20:53:08]

justinh:

you'd still be advised to back up the db before carrying out any upgrades but guess what.. that's done for you automagically now

[20:53:22]

benklop_:

ooh pretty

[20:53:25]

justinh:

the developers are too kind. too kind I tells ya

[20:53:25]

benklop_:

:P

[20:54:26]

leprechau:

brb...changing computer desks

[20:54:37]

benklop_:

basically, what's its wife approval rating? better or worse at this point than .21-fixes?

[20:54:39]

Dibblah:

laga: Same old. Triage, reassign.

[20:54:40]

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[20:54:55]

laga:

Dibblah: sweet.

[20:55:29]

iamlindoro_:

I would say I'm fairly proficient at keeping trunk running, but I wouldn't want to unleash it on the wife/girlfriend just yet

[20:56:29]

RyeBrye:

I mostly just update when I see a laundry list of new commits accumulate I want to test out and play with – usually once every couple of weeks

[20:56:50]

benklop_:

ok, I may set up a test rig in the other room to see what its like..

[20:57:04]

benklop_:

anything especially better over .21-fixes?

[20:57:06]

RyeBrye:

the mythvideo streaming stuff that greg is checking in is making me want to update this weekend

[20:57:23]

benklop_:

i honestly havnt looked into it enough yet i dont think..

[20:57:50]

RyeBrye:

benklop_: yes – tons of things. mythUI, VDPAU, mythvideo streaming from the backend (perhaps it is a WIP – I haven't tested this yet )

[20:58:14]

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[20:58:22]

RyeBrye:

When 0.22 is released – it will be a much bigger jump imo than any of the other recent point releases

[20:58:55]

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[20:59:29]

benklop_:

i guess the jump to Qt 4 makes a great point to fix things that need it and break binary compatibilities and whatever else all at once..

[20:59:52]

gbee:

HDPVR, improved DVD playback, improved video playback and codec support, new themes, big improvements to mythvideo and hundreds of other small improvements

[21:00:07]

jams:

you know i really don't see how qt4 gets all the credit for new stuff in mythtv.

[21:00:19]

laga:

cutiefour

[21:00:43]

iamlindoro_:

I'll take those four cuties

[21:01:55]

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[21:02:01]

sphery:

iamlindoro_: I thought you had 4 and a half cuties

[21:02:12]

iamlindoro_:

Ew, don't tell the police

[21:02:20]

justinh:

hmmm getting a bit sick of ubuntu's file manager complaining about not being able to mount the cd

[21:02:40]

dustybin:

justinh: arch linux ftw

[21:02:48]

iamlindoro_:

oh christ

[21:02:50]

justinh:

no frickin way man

[21:02:53]

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[21:03:00]

iamlindoro_:

yeah you'd better run

[21:03:08]

i_is_cat:

slackware baby

[21:03:32]

** justinh goes to find the tickbox to uncheck **

[21:05:30]

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[21:06:52]

i_is_cat:

slackware: http://tinyurl.com/at3b8n

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[21:07:24]

justinh:

there are all kinds of distros for all kinds of people. I'm not a slackware kind of person

[21:08:59]

i_is_cat:

thats true, i just find slackware sooooooooooo much easier to deal with than all the other distros that try to manage everything through guis.. i love my desktop (obviously) but when it comes right down to it, i prefer dealing with configuration and installation on the cli level

[21:09:02]

benklop_:

jams: all I meant was that switching to Qt 4 means refactoring a large amount of the code, so while you are in there it makes a good time to do other things as well

[21:09:09]

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[21:09:26]

dustybin:

justinh: slackware is designed for crusties like dagmar :P

[21:09:26]

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[21:10:28]

benklop_:

justinh: slackware doesn't do it for me either... my favorites seem to be gentoo and opensuse

[21:10:29]

jamesd:

dustybin, s/is/was/ ... i haven't heard of anyone using it more than once a twice a year for the last 5 years or so... slackware was great back in the mid nineties... slackware 96 baby..

[21:11:08]

dustybin:

jamesd: its essentially the same as it was in 96

[21:11:13]

dustybin:

just newer packages

[21:11:19]

dustybin:

and no package manager

[21:11:41]

benklop_:

what are you talking about? if you use slackware YOU are the package manager...

[21:11:48]

benklop_:

:D

[21:11:50]

dustybin:

haha indeed

[21:11:58]

dustybin:

you need to code your own package manager first

[21:12:26]

jamesd:

benklop_, good point...

[21:12:55]

justinh:

go eat some power pills or something dustybin

[21:12:57]

benklop_:

i guess maybe that's actually the draw for some people, just not me..

[21:13:02]

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[21:13:25]

i_is_cat:

slackware just works

[21:13:28]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: Does this look sort of sane? http://rafb.net/p/JbQf3p83.html

[21:13:34]

i_is_cat:

i dont need a package manager

[21:13:46]

benklop_:

i'd rather spend time writing code than figuring out the dependancies for QDevelop...

[21:13:47]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx: Think I'm just about getting it

[21:14:06]

gbee:

a slingshot just works, you don't see armies marching to war with them though

[21:14:07]

i_is_cat:

i see the package manager as more of an easy-out solution and from experience with ubuntu and suse in the past, it seems to cause more issues than it solves

[21:14:08]

jamesd:

but now that i think about it, perhaps slackware is good for mythtv, just configure system and forget root passwd... 99% of the issues i have had with my mythtv box was when i upgraded something...

[21:14:15]

benklop_:

or Kdevelop, or whatever else i want to use

[21:15:11]

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[21:15:19]

benklop_:

jamesd: great idea... it would probably run forever that way.. or at least until you fill the hard drive with logs..

[21:15:44]

benklop_:

jamesd: which i somehow seem to have done a number of times

[21:15:46]

jamesd:

benklop_, that is why you configure log-rotate

[21:15:48]

i_is_cat:

like using apt-get on an asus eeepc trying to install kopete i believe it was, the package manager just started downloading huge files and ate the hard drive space completely and added way more programs than i wanted...

[21:16:06]

i_is_cat:

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