MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (203):

a1fa, abqjp, aBs0lut30, adante, aegis, afm, Agrajag-, akv, andreax1, andrew[andrboot], Anduin, AndyCap, anykey_, AriX_, arttu, at0m|c, Axios, banyan, Beirdo, BenB, benc_, bestis, bfirsh, bobgill, cafuego, Caliban, Captain_Murdoch, CaptObviousman, carpenike, CCFL_Man, cesman, chainsawbike, ChanServ, charlieS_, clever, Computer_Czar, Cougar, crichardson, croppa, d00gster, d0netsFN, d3ity, Dagmar, danomac, Dave123, Dave123-road, daveg, dec, Dibblah, directhex, disc-q, dlblog, dserban, dustybin, elmojo_, eNeRGi, EvilGuru, flindet, Floppe, FlyOnTheWall, fpsdavid, gnome42, grantm_, gregL_, GreyFoxx, grokky, growler, hadees, high-rez, holister, Honk, Hoxzer, Huijari, iamlindoro, iamlindoro_, IceWewe, J-e-f-f-A, J-e-f-f-A_, jackson__, jamesd, jamiem, jams_, janneg, jarle, jduggan, jhulst, joe2371, Josh_Borke, jpabq, jroysdon, justdave, justinh, kabtoffe, kali67, KaZeR, keith4, keith4_, khunt, kormoc, kothog, KraMer, LabMonkey, laga, levander`, linagee, LiNERROR, Lollero, Loto, Lunar_Lamp, mace, mag0o, Maliuta, malocite, MartinCleaver, Master_PE, MavT, mbamford, meshe, Mez, mgisbers, mikeones1, MilkBoy, mishehu, moodboom, MythLogBot, mzb_d800, nagnag, NeoMatrixJR, notyjoey, nsx_, nullsmack, nuonguy, Octane, oldman, olejl, oobe, opello, otwin, packetscan, Patina, pat_, pheld, phunyguy, pigeon, pike_, PointyPumper, poodyp, psipsi, purserj, qfx, quadtree, quicksilver, quigleymd, radi0head, RDV_Linux, RobertLaptop, rooaus, ruskie, RyeBrye, Scopeuk, Sedorox, sege, shadash_away, sid3windr, simcop2387, slayven, SlicerDicer, sphery, sprinteren, squish102, strex, styelz, sulx, sutula, tanderson, tank-man, tarbo, tfm, thefront, Therock_, Thomas-, Tomasu, toorima, unimaginative, ventz, wagnerrp, wang, Wayhigh, whoDat, Wicked, Winkie, xand, xris, yalu, zand, zDen, zlyzyr, zorglups, [gquit]bombadil, [PUPPETS]Gonzo, [yzf600], _abbenormal, _charly_

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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-01 13:36:55 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
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  error line:  120

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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-01 13:36:55 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 00:01 UTC
[00:01:23] joe2371: Am I right in my understanding that there is no way to import QAM channel listings from silicondust.com data into MythTV?
[00:03:24] iamlindoro: joe2371, You are right in understanding that-- none of the necessary information is on that site
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[00:27:28] denos: Does this ring a bell for anyone: I had been using Intel onboard, just switched to nvidia (and updated xorg.conf). Now whenever I try and play a video, the screen is white with very light hints of the underlying video.
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[00:30:22] Gumby: aoeu: whats the exact error?
[00:30:53] aoeu: ERROR! You must have FreeType installed to compile MythTV.
[00:32:28] Gumby: aoeu: 64bit OS?
[00:32:43] aoeu: nope. debian etch
[00:33:29] Gumby: whats the output of dpkg -l *freetype* paste to pastebin
[00:34:37] aoeu: http://www.zeug.us/temp/freetype
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[00:35:14] Gumby: how are you compiling it?
[00:35:55] aoeu: by running ./configure first
[00:36:45] Gumby: I dunno. you've tried google?
[00:37:06] aoeu: yes
[00:37:44] aoeu: also. i currently have a binary version installed. when i do mythtv-setup, i can't figure out the keyboard shortcuts. i tried googling it, but couldn't find anything. when i click on an item to configure, there's no button to go back.
[00:38:09] Gumby: esc should go back
[00:39:25] aoeu: i'm going to try downloading the source version of freetype.
[00:40:18] joe2371: iamlindoro: ok, thanks. Guess I should try starting from the one for my location in the wiki, even though it may be out of date.
[00:41:27] iamlindoro: joe2371, Why not just run a channel scan like you're supposed to?
[00:43:16] joe2371: iamlindoro: because if that was working, I wouldn't be trying to do something more complicated. ;-) It looks like my cable provider may not be entirely compliant with QAM standards.
[00:43:57] aoeu: if i install a new version of freetype, will it overwrite my old one?
[00:44:38] aoeu: right now i have libfreetype.so.6.3.10
[00:44:44] aoeu: could that version be too old for mythtv?
[00:49:28] Dagmar_ is now known as Dagmar
[00:49:47] Dagmar: Use whatever version of Freetype your distro shipped
[00:49:56] Dagmar: Do not go changing system libraries for speculative reasons.
[00:50:05] Dagmar: Not unless you like the idea of completely breaking X.
[00:50:17] joe2371: Depending on the settings I use when I scan for QAM channels, I get either "Encrypted Channel", "no signal", or "no tables". In each case, the scan ends with no channel available for the starting channel field.
[00:51:11] Dagmar: If you're trying to COMPILE on Debian, you need to install the -dev packages for stuff so you'll have headers.
[00:51:36] Dagmar: without the headers for things, configure tests will fail
[00:52:15] aoeu: i have libfreetype6-dev. isn't that what i need?
[00:52:22] Dagmar: ...and don't expect to "click" on anything. The entire interface is driven around the idea of being used with a remote control
[00:53:21] Dagmar: aoeu: It might be, but the odds are higher you don't need to compile it if you have a binary package
[00:53:35] Dagmar: You will likely gain nothing but new and exciting bugs
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[00:54:30] joe2371: Which is only a good thing if you are an entomologist.
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[01:04:13] sphery: denos: what nvidia card?
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[01:10:59] aoeu: i uninstalled mythtv by apt-get removing the packages and deleting all the files i found with locate mythtv. when i reinstalled mythtv, it didn't go through the same things. how can i be sure it's completely installed?
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[01:12:43] Gumby: aoeu: dpkg-reconfigure package_name
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[01:17:57] wagnerrp: aoeu: you wont uninstall mythtv until you dump the database
[01:18:09] Gumby: is it possible to just delete one tuner from mythtv-setup?
[01:18:22] wagnerrp: until that point, you can have mythtv back up and running exactly the same as you had it within about 3 minutes
[01:18:39] wagnerrp: Gumby: 'd' should do it
[01:18:41] Gumby: ah yes... with the"D" button
[01:18:42] Gumby: hehe
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[01:27:37] denos: sphery: 9500 GT
[01:28:26] denos: sphery: Everything is fine until I hit enter on the video. The preview video looks good. THe actual video playback is almost entirely white but you can see hints of the video underneath.
[01:29:10] denos: sphery: Tried nvidia 177.82 and 180.22
[01:29:22] denos: (same)
[01:29:58] denos: sphery: If I play the video with mplayer, it works. If I go into mythfrontend, play the video (get the white screen), and exit and try the video again in mplayer, it plays white there as well.
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[01:40:43] Dagmar: So, you're the one who is getting the output from mplayer saying what driver/method it's using
[01:40:46] Dagmar: You should take a look at that
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[01:41:50] Dagmar: xv picture controls are probably set to something insane, and mPlayer isn't being affected because it's not using them or something
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[01:46:37] sphery: denos: what video renderer? Usually it's the picture controls messed up that cases that (like Dagmar said). I know some nvidia cards don't support them, but the 9500 might. Hit F while playing back a recording and if it brings up picture controls adjust them.
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[01:47:23] sphery: Wow... I never thought I would live to see the day... The Simpsons in HDTV, starting Feb with the episode, "Take My Life, Please."
[01:47:57] sphery: Imagine how much more work it's been for the animators having to draw ~3x as many pixels.
[01:49:40] denos: Thanks for the help sphery and dagmar! I switched off the "Enable Picture Controls" option in the playback setup and it's working perfectly now.
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[01:58:34] Dagmar: sphery: I thought we've been doing it with an intelligent upscaling filter
[02:04:45] sphery: Yeah, but at least this way the non-Myth users will see their Simpsons in HDTV. (Really, it's mainly the widescreen that will be nice.)
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[02:14:57] phunyguy: very nice
[02:15:01] phunyguy: HD Homer.
[02:15:11] phunyguy: HD Beer...
[02:15:14] phunyguy: HD Donuts....
[02:15:32] phunyguy: hah i just watched some Season 1
[02:15:42] phunyguy: talk about a change
[02:15:58] phunyguy: The voices don't even sound the same.
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[02:17:21] [yzf600]: hello all
[02:17:46] [yzf600]: finally started to run mythtv after hearing about it for years
[02:17:59] [yzf600]: trusty old Tivo is on it's last legs
[02:18:19] [yzf600]: so I see myth has tons of options for recording shows
[02:18:50] [yzf600]: which option would be closest to the tivo season pass?
[02:19:14] [yzf600]: "find & record one showing of this title each week"?
[02:19:47] [yzf600]: ah ha
[02:19:53] [yzf600]: google lets me down
[02:20:08] [yzf600]: I see gossamer threads has season pass discussion
[02:26:16] sphery: [yzf600]: Record at any time on any channel is my favorite. If you've seen old episodes, just mark them "Never Record" and eventually Myth knows every episode you've ever seen.
[02:27:48] sphery: [yzf600]: However, you can also use Record at any time on any channel and then use a filter, such as "New Episodes Only" or "Exclude Repeat Episodes" or "Exclude Generic Episodes" or "Exclude Repeat and Generic Episodes" to get only the new stuff.
[02:28:23] sphery: But you almost definitely do not want "Find and record one showing of this title each <anything>"
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[02:28:56] afm: what button switches input sources while watching livetv?
[02:29:03] afm: er key i guess
[02:29:28] sphery: That's pretty much for shows like The Daily Show, where the listings don't tell you which episodes differ. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/153872#153872
[02:30:17] [yzf600]: is there a problem running mythtv with the recordings dir being on a linux software RAID 1 partition?
[02:30:40] sphery: afm: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/322676#322676 (and the rest of the thread)
[02:30:53] sphery: [yzf600]: not a problem, per se, but it's not ideal
[02:32:01] sphery: [yzf600]: MythTV will work best if it has at least 1 filesystem per tuner--that way it can spread out the load onto different filesystems (which are often on different controllers) and prevent file fragmentation, etc.
[02:32:10] [yzf600]: ok
[02:32:13] [yzf600]: good to know
[02:32:38] [yzf600]: my mythtv is really not stable and I think it may be due to my recordings dir being on the RAID
[02:32:40] sphery: You used to have to use RAID or LVM to put a bunch of drives together, but you should use Storage Groups, now, to specify a directory on each filesystem you want to use
[02:33:03] [yzf600]: I've got a single HDHomerun, (2 tuner) putting all recordings to 1 RAID1 partition
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[02:34:59] a1fa: lol
[02:35:01] a1fa: yzf600
[02:35:05] a1fa: fazer
[02:35:32] [yzf600]: it's not called the fazer here on this side of the pond
[02:35:35] [yzf600]: ;)
[02:35:38] sphery: the instability may not be from RAID, but you would probably be better off without RAID, even if it doesn't help the instability
[02:35:46] [yzf600]: ok
[02:36:02] a1fa: i know
[02:36:07] a1fa: i am on the same side of the pond as you are
[02:36:09] a1fa: which year?
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[02:36:52] [yzf600]: sometimes when I tune a live tv show, it never displays it. the backend dies and when I launch it again, I discover my capture cards (HDhomerun) have been mysteriously deleted
[02:36:58] [yzf600]: '98 I think
[02:37:23] a1fa: the boxy kind
[02:37:30] a1fa: :)
[02:37:33] [yzf600]: I sure hope I can fix my problems – it looks like mythtv is what I want to replace my Tivo with
[02:37:51] [yzf600]: a1fa: they still make it in the same body style as mine
[02:37:54] a1fa: do you have the newest version of mythtv
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[02:38:00] [yzf600]: but it is lookin kinda dated
[02:38:08] [yzf600]: a1fa: 0.21
[02:38:20] [yzf600]: it was whatever Ubuntu 8.10 ships with
[02:38:24] a1fa: ah
[02:38:28] [yzf600]: with is 0.21 I'm pretty sure
[02:38:31] a1fa: did you go mythbuntu route
[02:38:35] a1fa: or ubuntu and then mythtv
[02:39:07] [yzf600]: don't laugh – I've got a myth-backend running on my desktop to try it out before I build a special box
[02:39:14] [yzf600]: hey – I gotta go
[02:39:25] [yzf600]: thanks a1fa and sphery for your help
[02:39:37] a1fa: hehe
[02:39:55] a1fa: [yzf600]: know about seppes yzf videos?
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[03:20:53] iamlindoro: Anduin, any chance of a review/application of #6159 in the next little bit? I have too many patches laid over each other right now and it'd be nice to get a big one out of the way :)
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[03:21:16] iamlindoro: (and by next little bit I don't mean "right now," btw, just if you have some throwaway time in the nearish future)
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[03:22:38] iamlindoro: updated today to include the file browser for all added types
[03:23:14] Anduin: iamlindoro: I'll see if I can find time, probably going to be Sunday, only time for simple things like iterator/music playing till then
[03:23:42] iamlindoro: Anduin, Sounds great, when you can it's appreciated
[03:23:44] Anduin: iamlindoro: people seem to like quilt (I don't use it though)
[03:24:06] iamlindoro: Anduin, So I keep hearing, I'm too deep into these few to start with it but intend to when I clear the 4–5 I have going right now out
[03:25:15] sphery: quilt ftw!
[03:25:40] iamlindoro: Thanks dustyb.... sphery
[03:25:43] iamlindoro: ;)
[03:25:49] sphery: heh
[03:28:34] sphery: If you already have patches that apply over one another, starting with quilt is as easy as: 1) get a clean working copy (no diffs from SVN), 2) create a file called series with a list of filenames of patches separated by linefeed and in order to apply (use # comments as desired), then c) for fun (and to keep you from accidentally deleting your series/patches), export QUILT_PATCHES=/some/dir/not/in/your/tree , and finally) quilt ...
[03:28:41] sphery: ... push -a
[03:30:22] sphery: I have a separate dir under QUILT_PATCHES for mythtv, mythplugins, mythweb, myththemes, and themes, so my filenames are mythtv/mythtv-patch1.patch, etc. And, if your patches are -p0 patches, you have to specify the patch with -p0 at the end of the line--i.e. mythtv/myth-patch1.patch -p0
[03:31:13] sphery: oh, and series belongs in $QUILT_PATCHES dir
[03:31:29] iamlindoro: ummmmmmm yeah
[03:32:16] sphery: (I have a dir series_files under $QUILT_PATCHES that contains series-mythtv and series-mythplugins, etc. and use a symlink called series: ln -sf series_files/series-mythtv ${QUILT_PATCHES}/series
[03:32:22] sphery: so, easy ;)
[03:33:00] sphery: OK, it's not easy until you've been doing it for a while, then you wonder why you waited so long to start using it.
[03:33:23] iamlindoro: There's a sick sort of joy watching Jean-Yves run around having to provide support...
[03:33:30] iamlindoro: But I have to wonder, what happens when he gives up?
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[03:34:28] sphery: Yeah. The road to a city in Montana is paved with good intentions.
[03:35:00] basskozz: Can someone tell me if I am in over my head here: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1389074
[03:35:02] sphery: or is it Michigan?
[03:36:01] wagnerrp: stained glass overlay is closed tomorrow....
[03:36:05] sphery: seems it's California, Michigan, Grand Cayman, Norway, and in Montana it's Hell Creek
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[03:36:18] iamlindoro: sphery, Think there's a purgatory Minnesota
[03:36:27] wagnerrp: .... why would i care enough about some store being closed for inclimate weather for them to display that on TV?
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[03:36:42] mchou: basskozz: bah, just wait for the nvidia ion
[03:36:52] mchou: basskozz: you'd be better off
[03:36:55] wagnerrp: i dont even know if i like the idea of them broadcasting school closings
[03:37:06] wagnerrp: if youve got a tv, youve probably got a phone
[03:37:11] sphery: where did sparkle come from? I'd never heard of them, and now everyone's buying their cards.
[03:37:20] wagnerrp: but a small little store, that probably has relatively little business???
[03:37:25] sphery: Guess they picked a winner when they decided to go for the cheap vid card market.
[03:37:31] mchou: sphery: sparkle has been around for a long time
[03:37:36] basskozz: mchou: so I have no luck running on that rig even with VDPAU?
[03:37:51] mchou: basskozz: no, that's not the issue
[03:37:52] sphery: iamlindoro: never can keep all those afterlife cities straight
[03:38:29] mchou: basskozz: the question is why you'd want to run a power hung monstrous rig when nvidia ion is right around the corner
[03:38:39] mchou: hog*
[03:38:39] iamlindoro: "I just had a look at his package" Best quote ever from the users list
[03:38:41] sphery: mchou: heh, I had never heard of them until after VDPAU
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[03:39:26] basskozz: mchou: well this is my first MythTV setup, and I wanted to test it out before spending money on a more powerful setup, and I got the used computers for cheap
[03:39:27] mchou: sphery: I first heard of sparkle when they were making HSF for tbirds
[03:39:58] wagnerrp: mchou: 'around the corner' actually means several months off
[03:40:03] mchou: basskozz: that's a false economy. The power you suck will be enough to buy another computer
[03:40:08] wagnerrp: whereas a new video card is $50 and a couple days away
[03:40:13] sphery: mchou: I first heard of them when Homer got his picture on the box of soap, but they must have branched out since then...
[03:40:20] mchou: wagnerrp: lol. like VDPAU is ready for prime time
[03:40:46] wagnerrp: it certainly is not, and it may not be by the time the ION comes out either
[03:40:46] mchou: sphery: no, I'm being serious.....
[03:41:10] mchou: sphery: tbird as in AMD, not Anderson :)
[03:41:21] sphery: yeah, I know... That was my way of saying I hadn't heard of them--and my only recollection of Sparkle is from the Simpsons.  :)
[03:41:45] sphery: iamlindoro: did you see that The Simpsons is going HDTV in Feb?
[03:42:33] iamlindoro: sphery, Yeah, heh, saw that on Engadget-- am curious how lineart will benefit, but we shall see :)
[03:42:55] sphery: only benefit I can imagine is widescreen-ness
[03:43:06] wagnerrp: mchou: if you actually want to discuss power costs, say the ION comes out in 6 months, that PC might pull $75 in power
[03:43:10] mchou: basskozz: just be patient. no need to rush into vdpau right now
[03:43:12] wagnerrp: hardly enough to buy a new computer
[03:43:44] wagnerrp: and if its a frontend only, put it in standby when not in use, and that probably drops to about $15 over the same period of time
[03:43:48] sphery: saving power with myth means shutting off your myth computer when not in use
[03:44:30] mchou: the ion is going to use a power brick. maybe 12V at 1amp. not a frigging atx power supply
[03:44:31] sphery: you can also buy low-power systems, but if doing so you need look at more than CPU (and, now with VDPAU, some are starting to look at GPU) TDP
[03:44:47] mchou: sphery: that is indeed correct
[03:44:56] mchou: sphery: not to mention chipsets
[03:45:20] wagnerrp: the ION is going to use considerably more than 12W
[03:45:22] mchou: cause some chipsets suck more juice than the cpu these days
[03:45:31] wagnerrp: the current Atom330 systems top out at 25–30W
[03:45:48] sphery: Yeah, chipsets power usage tends to offset differences in many CPU TDP's (and people seem to think the processor always runs at max TDP which is ludicrous"
[03:45:54] wagnerrp: although ill admit, that is far less than the 150W most systems idle at anymore
[03:45:59] mchou: sphery: indeedy.
[03:46:05] basskozz: Lets say power $$$ was out-of-the-picture, will I be able to run 1080p on that rig using an 8400gs w/ VDPAU?
[03:46:34] wagnerrp: basskozz: in theory, you should
[03:46:40] mchou: basskozz: if power $$$ is out of picture, you can run anything you like
[03:46:46] wagnerrp: just keep in mind that VDPAU is currently nothing more than a tech demo
[03:47:34] sphery: I vote for tons of processing power on the frontend system(s) and, if separate, you can use garbage for backend systems, but only with MPEG encoders or digital TV
[03:47:34] mchou: just think, you can run asterisk and mythfrontend on the ion with cycles to spare.....
[03:47:35] wagnerrp: you will only be able to run that resolution with stuff you can decode on the graphics card
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[03:47:46] mchou: glue that to the back of your tv set.....
[03:48:05] wagnerrp: anything you have to decode in software, and youll barely be able to push 1280x720
[03:48:11] mchou: just a better experience all around
[03:48:53] mchou: honking atx for frontend is just more and more ridiculous....
[03:49:13] wagnerrp: i will agree with that
[03:50:51] mchou: I'd get a STB (like cable or tivo) even b4 getting a ATX frontend
[03:51:25] mchou: their mpeg decoding is way more robust than crappy PC
[03:54:57] wagnerrp: CPU requirements not withstanding, id trust a software implementation over a hardware one any day
[03:56:03] mchou: so says a guy who have never even used a stb
[03:56:06] wagnerrp: ffmpeg may not be 'efficient', but it can handle just about anything ive thrown at it
[03:56:14] mchou: the voice of experience there
[03:56:16] wagnerrp: meanwhile, my PS3 is a finicky bitch
[03:56:45] wagnerrp: and ive had STBs crap out when they got bad data from Time Warner
[03:58:08] wagnerrp: or they could have just randomly crapped out...
[03:59:48] wagnerrp: basskozz: youre not going to be using trunk immediately? then did the computer not come with graphics cards?
[04:00:40] wagnerrp: looks like they come with onboard intel graphics, which is perfectly sufficient for myth
[04:00:59] wagnerrp: if youre not going to be running trunk, no reason to purchase anything right now
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[04:04:21] basskozz: wagnerrp: will the onboard intel graphics beable to handel the streams comming off of the HDHomeRun & Recordings from it?
[04:04:48] mchou: noy if uou intend to decode anything higher than standard def
[04:04:52] basskozz: wagnerrp, thanks for the help BTW
[04:04:52] mchou: not*
[04:05:11] basskozz: mchou: hmm, bummer
[04:05:23] basskozz: that's the whole point of a HDHomeRun :p
[04:05:24] wagnerrp: my P4 1.8 is incapable of doing HD mpeg2, now a 2.4...? i cant say
[04:05:53] basskozz: but will the 8400gs 512MB ram be able to (out of trunk)?
[04:05:53] mchou: the intel xvmc implementation is a bit crippled....But if you have beefy cpu it wont matter
[04:06:35] wagnerrp: everyone's xvmc implementations are a bit crippled
[04:07:39] J-e-f-f-A: basskozz: Chances are it won't be fast enough, but then again, a few years ago I had a PIII 1GHz playing 720p fine with XVMC... it would stutter horribly with the OSD, but was smooth otherwise. So YMMV – try it, it might work...
[04:08:10] J-e-f-f-A: basskozz: ps: that was on an NVidia Geforce5 card
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[04:08:18] mchou: J-e-f-f-A: you forgot to mention WHO'S xvmc :)
[04:08:34] mchou: J-e-f-f-A: yeah, that's more like it
[04:08:47] mchou: J-e-f-f-A: good luck w/ that on intel
[04:09:03] wagnerrp: the 845 seems to be pre-GMA
[04:09:10] wagnerrp: does it even support xvmc?
[04:09:13] J-e-f-f-A: well, he might be able to play it back without xvmc...
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[04:11:38] RyeBrye: I have P4 3 Ghz that does 1080i or 720p with deinterlacing as smooth as my Core2Quad 3.6 Ghz does
[04:11:52] RyeBrye: but maybe VDPAU is considered cheating ;)
[04:12:20] mchou: having a P4 defeats the purpose of VDPAU
[04:12:35] J-e-f-f-A: what?!?
[04:12:45] mchou: hot, noisy, power hungry
[04:12:54] wagnerrp: if you dont need the CPU power, you can heavily underclock/undervolt them
[04:13:19] RyeBrye: My living room isn't exactly silent as it is
[04:13:46] RyeBrye: To silence the most noisy things in my house I would have to break a few laws and I would probably go to jail
[04:13:51] mchou: RyeBrye: well, some people like a quiet viewing environment
[04:14:17] wagnerrp: you can always put the computer in the basement, run the wires up through the floor
[04:14:24] mchou: RyeBrye: you have airport next to your house? :)
[04:14:30] ** J-e-f-f-A did that... ;-) **
[04:14:33] RyeBrye: mchou: close... a 2.5 year old
[04:14:34] wagnerrp: not much is going to get through an inch and a half of wood and carpet
[04:16:40] RyeBrye: power where I live is cheap – and vdpau let me repurpose an older machine that was collecting dust to be a suitable frontend for my upstairs for less than $100 total... compare that to at least $600+ to build a new machine to playback HD content without VDPAU and that seems like a pretty sweet deal to me
[04:17:06] basskozz: I think I am gonna pull the trigger on the 8400gs w/ 512, and use it to test MythTV w & w/o VDPAU... Thanks for all the help
[04:17:10] basskozz: Everyone
[04:17:13] wagnerrp: you dont need $600+
[04:17:32] RyeBrye: basskozz: the Asus EN8400GS or whatever it is at newegg? the one that is G98 for $<50?
[04:17:45] wagnerrp: my single core 2GHz AMD does HD mpeg2 just fine
[04:17:51] wagnerrp: RyeBrye: hes looking for PCI cards
[04:17:55] RyeBrye: Oh
[04:17:57] basskozz: RyeBrye, no the Sparkle: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187042
[04:18:06] basskozz: my MoBo only has PCI :(
[04:18:08] ** RyeBrye has no idea about pci cards **
[04:18:22] RyeBrye: if that works, report back
[04:18:30] basskozz: will do
[04:18:34] RyeBrye: and maybe I'll revive an even CRAPPIER machine and make it an HD-capable frontend :)
[04:18:44] quinten: i have not had much luck with getting vdpau to work on my machine
[04:18:45] wagnerrp: if you want to wait until tomorrow, mine should arrive in the mail
[04:18:55] mchou: basskozz: lol. Be the channel guinea pig. Take one for the team!
[04:19:01] basskozz: Thanks again everyone, I'll be on tomorrow in-between snow shoveling sessions
[04:19:18] basskozz: basskozz = guinea pig
[04:19:21] basskozz: :-P
[04:19:22] quinten: just tried out those packages announced ont he mailing list, and first i got stuttering sound when i set up a vdpau profile, and then no video at all
[04:19:35] mchou: haha
[04:19:38] RyeBrye: there were packages in the mailing list?
[04:19:39] wagnerrp: packages on the mailing list?
[04:19:44] RyeBrye: probably explosives
[04:19:54] mchou: serves you right for trying a "package"
[04:20:04] wagnerrp: vdpau only comes with trunk
[04:20:07] wagnerrp: trunk only comes in source
[04:20:10] quinten: my package usually works just fine :)
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[04:20:28] quinten: ah, you missed the big debate
[04:20:34] iamlindoro: and trying someone's retarded VDPAU BACKPORT is double stupid
[04:20:38] quinten: someone backported vdpau to .21-fixes
[04:20:47] iamlindoro: you can backport right out of the channel if you want help with that
[04:20:49] RyeBrye: yeah, there is no debate – that person was a retard
[04:20:52] wagnerrp: yeah, you will get no support for that in here
[04:21:09] RyeBrye: there is #mythtv-abusers for support on crazy unsupported stuff
[04:21:17] quinten: ha
[04:21:27] wagnerrp: (thats assuming VDPAU is supported to begin with)
[04:21:35] quinten: well, it seemed slightly safer to try than upgrading to trunk
[04:21:46] quinten: i'm not expecting support
[04:21:48] mchou: "seemed"
[04:21:51] wagnerrp: yeahhhh... no
[04:21:51] iamlindoro: safer still would be holding the heck on
[04:22:01] RyeBrye: Hmm... Safest route: waiting
[04:22:26] mchou: even safer: uninstall myth
[04:22:28] RyeBrye: less safe route: using the trunk that the developers are actively working on and squashing bugs on – checking in fixes and updates at least three or four times a day on SLOW days
[04:22:59] RyeBrye: even less safe route: using some guy who is not a develpers hacked up backport on old code
[04:23:20] iamlindoro: code missing multiple crucial fixes from *today*
[04:23:21] quinten: where less safe is defined as ...
[04:23:35] quinten: this is tv, not mission critical
[04:23:49] RyeBrye: trunk would be significantly better than backport fixes imo
[04:23:52] mchou: quinten: you'd be surprised :)
[04:24:01] wagnerrp: trunk is by and large, stable
[04:24:09] RyeBrye: except for when it is unstable ;)
[04:24:14] quinten: really? i had a sense that it breaks like once a week
[04:24:16] RyeBrye: but now it's in a fairly stable state
[04:24:33] wagnerrp: oh, there regularly are revisions that break one or more parts of it
[04:24:34] iamlindoro: It's as stable as the user is capable of making it
[04:24:38] RyeBrye: early on in the mythui stuff there was a big "Hey, shortbus riders – get off the trunk or you are gunna bleed" and I got off trunk for a while
[04:24:42] wagnerrp: but those usually get patched up pretty quick
[04:24:52] quinten: i thought this might be a chance to preview vdpau and see if it's worth it, that's the real reason for trying the backport
[04:25:05] Dagmar: Backport?
[04:25:10] mchou: hahah
[04:25:22] wagnerrp: the backport will break compatibility with myth, you will not be able to automatically upgrade in the future
[04:25:23] mchou: look who just gophered
[04:25:39] iamlindoro: quinten, Would you drive a yugo painted to look like a ferrari to get a sense of whether a ferrari would be worth buying?
[04:25:42] Dagmar: vdpau and backport were said several times in close proximity to each other
[04:25:54] quinten: heh
[04:26:07] wagnerrp: Dagmar: yes, someone hacked up the VDPAU code to get it working in -fixes
[04:26:17] Dagmar: Hmm...
[04:26:19] quinten: i wouldn't recommend it though
[04:26:23] Dagmar: I'll wait until the initial fires go out
[04:26:24] quinten: broken packaging
[04:26:38] Dagmar: broken packaging? I don't use people
[04:26:41] Dagmar: 's packages
[04:26:44] iamlindoro: make sure to post to the list explaining such
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[04:27:41] quinten: how often does trunk break?
[04:27:47] Dagmar: Weekly
[04:27:47] quinten: on an average month
[04:27:51] wagnerrp: about as often as it gets fixed
[04:27:58] Dagmar: Ooo even better answer
[04:28:02] Lexridge: clever: I can remember for sure, but wasn't it you who recommended last night I try cpdvd for backing up my dvds?
[04:28:27] mchou: Lexridge: what's wrong with it?
[04:28:33] clever: Lexridge: yeah
[04:28:36] quinten: in reference to an earlier line: what was this broken thing that was fixed in -fixes, not in the backport?
[04:29:11] Lexridge: wth is the syntax? I have been trying to make this work for 30 minutes with no luck. I give it a mount point, and then it tells me it cannot find /dvd.
[04:29:16] iamlindoro: not fixed in fixes, there were multiple commits to trunk for VDPAU today
[04:29:35] iamlindoro: all bugfixes
[04:29:40] quinten: ah
[04:29:45] clever: Lexridge: 'man cpdvd'
[04:30:30] Lexridge: I've tried that. No man. All I have is the help screen, which should be enough....but maybe not. /:
[04:30:42] clever: ahh
[04:31:01] clever: i think its perl based, i just read the code to find the arguments
[04:31:05] quinten: the main reason i was interested in trunk or a backport, is this problem that a lot of people have been having with the machine ignoring remote presses
[04:31:19] quinten: which seems somewhat related to high load
[04:31:24] quinten: but not entirely
[04:31:34] clever: Lexridge: it seems to check DVD_DEV very early on, then maybe default to /dev
[04:32:08] quinten: i see a fix is in trunk now, but i thought i'd try vdpau as an alternative fix rather than take the plunge. my sense atm is that .22 is still months away and the bug bothers me on a daily basis
[04:32:09] clever: ahh there it is, cpdvd -d /dev/something -m /media/cdrom/ dest
[04:32:13] Lexridge: I've tried the -m [mountpoint]. no luck.....-d [device ie /dev/hdc-dvd] Nothing works. :( It still wants /dvd. Maybe I should try mounting the dvd as /dvd. humm.
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[04:32:44] clever: odd
[04:32:56] RyeBrye: quinten: the point isn't really "how often does trunk break" the point is more of "how often do you feel compelled to update to the latest trunk"
[04:32:56] clever: Lexridge: ls -l /dev/hdc-dvd
[04:33:12] RyeBrye: if you install it, and it isn't broken – you don't need to care at all if it breaks the next day
[04:33:31] quinten: RyeBrye: that is a good point.
[04:33:56] RyeBrye: just watch mythtv-commits list and see what gets put in and when there are things that sound cool that you want – update and rebuild
[04:34:06] Lexridge: brw------- 1 hines_j disk 22, 0 Jan 23 17:42 /dev/dvd-hdc
[04:34:28] Lexridge: clever: plus it is mounted in /media
[04:34:45] quinten: RyeBrye: sometimes hard to tell when it's going to be stable for you though, as various different components, my config may be different, etc, which made me not sure when to start. the last commit i saw was interesting, i saw a bug report on it just hours later that it introduced new problems of its own...
[04:34:54] clever: Lexridge: cpdvd -d /dev/dvd-hdc -m /media /some/dest/folder
[04:35:06] Lexridge: hang on, I'll try that.
[04:35:13] quinten: RyeBrye: i used to run debian unstable but i eventually got tired of the breakage even with trying to upgrade cautiously
[04:35:33] quinten: RyeBrye: why i was excited about the ubuntu project
[04:35:46] RyeBrye: yeah, don't run ubuntu alphas though if you don't like breakage :)
[04:36:31] quinten: eh, generally i don't mind waiting six months. of course, the switch to pulseaudio reveals that even stable ubuntu releases can be risky
[04:36:35] quinten: :)
[04:36:49] Lexridge: clever: strange, this time I get: ... FAILED! – No DVD?
[04:37:09] clever: Lexridge: odd, are you the 'hine_j' user?
[04:37:14] Lexridge: yes
[04:37:27] clever: dont know then:S
[04:37:41] Lexridge: oh well, it was worth a shot.
[04:38:16] quinten: i've read all the warnings about trunk on the documentation, etc, saying "there is no return to stable"
[04:38:24] quinten: at this point, is trunk heading towards .22?
[04:38:36] quinten: is there a transition from trunk to .22? or is trunk always trunk
[04:39:05] wagnerrp: trunk is always trunk
[04:39:17] wagnerrp: at some point, trunk will be forked into a 0.22 release branch
[04:39:51] quinten: ok. at this point it's not clear if there will be an upgrade path though
[04:40:17] wagnerrp: the reason there is no return to stable is because there have been some 20 or so schema updates since the last stable release
[04:40:49] wagnerrp: at which point there is another stable release, you will be able to move over to it, assuming you are using a revision of trunk from before the fork
[04:41:43] wagnerrp: technically, you could go back to stable
[04:42:07] quinten: ok, that makes sense. so the warnings are simply that there's no upgrade from trunk->previous stable release
[04:42:14] wagnerrp: but no one has written any such programs to downgrade the schema, and clear out any other options and configs in the database that may have been added
[04:42:54] quinten: i guess it's not surprising that if trunk branches to a new stable release, there is a way for an end user to transition to the branch from the trunk
[04:43:01] wagnerrp: if you wanted to, it wouldnt be hard to restart 0.21-fixes using an old snapshot of the database
[04:43:05] wagnerrp: and import your new recordings
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[04:47:34] quinten: well...maybe it will be a weekend project after a thorough database backup
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[04:51:39] quinten: thanks for the input
[04:53:50] RyeBrye: in trunk can you have multiple PiP's now?
[04:54:01] RyeBrye: I have 6 tuners, can I see them all at once? :D
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[04:54:38] wagnerrp: back to the future video wall!
[04:54:43] RyeBrye: you bet :)
[04:54:57] wagnerrp: the peak of 80s video technology
[04:55:49] RyeBrye: It would mostly be cool to show people who are easily amused and who like to suck on the teet that is Windows Media Center
[04:57:24] RyeBrye: why does the name Jean-Yves Avenard sound so familiar?
[04:58:56] wagnerrp: ive heard him mentioned on here frequently the last few days
[05:01:13] RyeBrye: oh. Well regardless of what he was before, it now appears that he is super annoying the devs – and he was the source of the backport of vdpau crap
[05:06:28] justinh: I was just thinking "hmmm, wonder what's being talked about in #mythtv-users...".. heh
[05:12:16] iamlindoro: SSDD
[05:12:33] iamlindoro: We have a file edit dialog now, that's new and fun
[05:14:11] iamlindoro: er file browse, that is
[05:14:47] iamlindoro: justinh, http://robertmcnamara.smugmug.com/gallery/706 . . . 3_bFmAv-A-LB
[05:14:49] justinh: oh great. another thing to theme :P
[05:16:07] iamlindoro: At least it's just once for all of them
[05:16:39] justinh: iamlindoro: did you ever have the 'pleasure' of trying to theme the coverart browser for mythvideo? ;)
[05:16:48] iamlindoro: only just now :)
[05:16:56] iamlindoro: (which is obviously the new one)
[05:16:59] justinh: I say a hearty BYE BYE to that old chestnut
[05:17:35] iamlindoro: hehe
[05:18:03] justinh: it was fun in a way that only hard-coded stuff can be, but the alternatives open at the time meant writing a new widget for which there was no other use
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[05:18:59] iamlindoro: This file dialog had me going crazy tonight, and I'm sure it's a huge step up. I think I am done with themes for the night
[05:19:45] justinh: y'know the more I see of graphite, the more I'm liking it. it's getting much harder to motivate myself to continue with 'concept'
[05:20:47] iamlindoro: Nonsense! I've said it before, I ache for just a little of what you've got
[05:20:56] iamlindoro: and wait til' you see the XML, *shudder*
[05:21:00] justinh: heheh
[05:21:52] iamlindoro: hooray for the fix to the "falling off the edge of the world in grid mode" thing
[05:22:19] justinh: iamlindoro: what I'm seeing in your screenshots now isn't 'a well meaning guy having a pop at making something' ;)
[05:23:12] iamlindoro: I'm learning a bit as I go-- If I had it to do over again I'd probably do a lot of things different, but can't get this lady un-pregnant
[05:23:23] justinh: lol
[05:23:32] justinh: I have a lot of catching up to do
[05:23:40] RyeBrye: iamlindoro_: "can't get this lady un-pregnant" <-- meet me in the alley at midnight
[05:23:45] RyeBrye: ;)
[05:23:51] justinh: I've not touched any xml since before the fanart stuff was brought in
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[05:24:02] iamlindoro: Which you'll do in short order as *you* won't take four hours figuring out why certain images show up on top of each other
[05:24:20] iamlindoro: justinh, Technically speaking the fanart exists only in a ticket and my system
[05:24:21] justinh: don't bet on it!
[05:24:42] justinh: oh, I thought it was integrated already
[05:24:43] Wicked: hello all. anyone have any recomendations for a case for a htpc?
[05:24:45] iamlindoro: but hopefully that'll get in fairly shortly
[05:25:04] justinh: or are we waiting on the grabbing to come together so it'll all go in one go?
[05:25:12] iamlindoro: justinh, Pinged An duin about it tonight and he thought he might have a chance to look at it this weekend
[05:25:30] iamlindoro: I think the metadata and UI side will probably make it in first, then the grabber stuff thereafter
[05:26:05] iamlindoro: I have a secondary patch in #6159 that enables grabbing of the fanart grabbing in the short term
[05:26:16] justinh: Wicked: something with 6 sides, probably a few slots in it to take stuff like optical drives. and a PSU. maybe a fan or two. solved!
[05:26:35] iamlindoro: "grabbing of the fanart grabbing"
[05:26:38] iamlindoro: Me write good
[05:26:42] justinh: lol
[05:27:12] justinh: I need to figure out how I'm gonna improve my backend this weekend
[05:27:20] Wicked: hehe. well im just looking around and there are lots of options..didnt know if you guys in here had any suggestions...u guys tend to know your stuff when it comes to htpc's :)
[05:27:32] justinh: it's had a few crashes lately.. hard ones where the rootfs disappears
[05:27:40] iamlindoro: yummy
[05:28:15] justinh: like I was logged into it from work yesterday & screen just quit, then I couldn't even ls
[05:28:32] justinh: got home & the IDE LED was lit solidly
[05:28:56] justinh: the fact I can make it happen using synaptic makes me shudder a little
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[05:29:03] iamlindoro: I had that on a aBit mobo, seemed to be controller related
[05:29:13] iamlindoro: drives were fine on the next system after replacing the mobo
[05:29:31] justinh: I can dd copious amounts of data across buses with nary a flicker
[05:29:43] justinh: but synaptic.. whoah
[05:29:47] iamlindoro: every time I think I've themed all the UI widgets another one appears
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[05:31:14] justinh: I was thinking about the mythical 'theme editor' the other day
[05:31:35] justinh: and how it'd have been a major pain to write before mythui but I'm now wondering if it's more possible now
[05:31:49] iamlindoro: I had given something like that a little thought too (not that I think myself capable of it)... but it *sems* like you could re-use 90% of the code you would need
[05:32:01] justinh: i.e. before mythui you'd have to basically emulate every screen in every plugin since so much was hard coded
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[05:32:36] justinh: I'm not sure dragging & dropping would be that much faster though
[05:32:51] iamlindoro: I'd be satisfied with a wysiwyg text editor
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[05:33:48] justinh: besides, if I was gonna write anything right now I wouldn't waste my time making life easier for the competition :P
[05:34:11] iamlindoro: it is worth waiting until gbee says "I'm done" anyway
[05:34:30] iamlindoro: (with MythUI)
[05:35:39] justinh: hmm a lot of what I need to do this weekend is waiting for rsyncs to finish, so it won't necessarily hold up theme work
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[05:36:58] justinh: saw a nice 'coming next' on a show I recorded the other day & it gave me a new direction to try in pbb
[05:37:58] justinh: gonna go less cluttered I think
[05:37:58] RyeBrye: the graphics that the themes use are raster, right? the themes don't use svg or anything natively?
[05:38:05] justinh: nope
[05:38:08] justinh: can't
[05:38:40] RyeBrye: and the theme can't be made to turn into an attractive female and hop out of my TV screen and satisfy strange primal fantasies, can it?
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[05:38:58] iamlindoro: it can with the right fanart and hallucinogenics
[05:39:00] justinh: qt4 can import svg but they'd only be rendered to rasters anyway
[05:40:26] RyeBrye: are there transition effects in place yet? like can you do a simple flip-effect to give the apperance of a panel flipping over? like this kind of effect > http://www.tink.ws/blog/files/flex/FlipExample.html
[05:40:32] justinh: nope
[05:40:56] justinh: the current fade would need to be abstracted out
[05:41:03] justinh: it's not much work I'm told...
[05:41:29] iamlindoro: a flip effect would make me insane before I got to a plugin
[05:41:36] justinh: but if anything I'd be more in favour of styles which don't operate on the whole screen
[05:41:52] justinh: i.e. slide on, slide off.. whizzing style
[05:42:09] justinh: and not take any more time than the fade does, or there's no point!
[05:42:16] iamlindoro: I'd like to fly menus in, maybe fade in buttons, but that's about it
[05:42:27] justinh: and not take any more time than the fade does, or there's no point!
[05:42:32] RyeBrye: The way that flex does transition effects is pretty clever. It defines some basic constructs like <parallel> and <sequence> and you can define things inside there with things like <move> or <fade> with properties on them galore – (i.e. set the easing function to some premade functions... etc)
[05:42:47] justinh: flex?
[05:42:49] RyeBrye: well, I guess clever isn't the right word – it's just very thought out
[05:42:58] RyeBrye: yeah, Adobe Flex?
[05:43:06] justinh: never heard of it
[05:44:21] justinh: from what I've seen of the mythui stuff not used yet, individual elements can move & transform... all (haha 'all') is needed is something to bind it together & make it themable
[05:44:36] RyeBrye: It is like flash, only for programmers basically. Has an xml-based way to layout views and a whole lot of other nice goodies for making RIAs http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.ht . . . tions_3.html shows some of their syntax for the transitions
[05:45:14] justinh: all I know is, it's not as far off as it once was
[05:45:15] RyeBrye: ignore the <state> crap at the top – the implementations of states in Flex 3 sucks so they are redoing it entirely in flex 4 – but the transitions are pretty straightforward
[05:45:29] RyeBrye: yeah, the mythui stuff is waaaay better than it was before :)
[05:45:36] justinh: and not a single reference to libclutter :P
[05:46:36] justinh: I think given the current state of XBMC, Elisa et al, people will appreciate it more when mythtv gets it
[05:47:09] iamlindoro: justinh, People will *still* be incapable of comprehending mysql/lirc/et al
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[05:47:16] iamlindoro: I promise
[05:47:21] justinh: iamlindoro: and i still won't care
[05:47:26] iamlindoro: The complaint will become "I can just *starT* XBMC!"
[05:47:36] justinh: and FWIW they still have those concerns with XBMC et al
[05:47:45] justinh: lirc, not mysql :P
[05:48:15] iamlindoro: so in an amusing stroke of HAHAHAHAHA YOU FOOLS, XBMC just got external player support
[05:48:15] justinh: xbmc won't even start on my laptop. it plays its startup sound then crashes
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[05:48:29] justinh: what?! oh dear gawd
[05:48:38] justinh: wrong move, Clyde
[05:49:10] justinh: that's what listening to users makes
[05:49:37] iamlindoro: It's one of the *few* things I thought they had going for them
[05:49:39] justinh: on my desktop, xbmc works but OMFG I see WAY too much blank screen for no discernable reason
[05:49:53] iamlindoro: ie single player to support, demand that the user have OpenGL 2.0 card, etc.
[05:50:22] justinh: iamlindoro: I can think of only one reason they've done it. to shut people up while they make their player work with viddypow
[05:50:35] iamlindoro: They seem to be not really working on that
[05:50:48] justinh: game over, man. game over
[05:52:01] sulx: XBMC doesn't even compile ;)
[05:52:20] justinh: iamlindoro: when i was waiting to go onstage & demo mythtv at LRL07, there was a guy on demoing his screencap app. he was showing it capturing Elisa. most of the demo was him trying to get Elisa to load/not crash
[05:52:56] sulx: =)
[05:53:04] iamlindoro: justinh, Hehehe, which capture app? gtk-recordmydesktop sucks horribly, istanbul sucks but slightly less
[05:53:11] justinh: istanbul
[05:53:12] iamlindoro: justinh, would love to find something that sucked not at all
[05:53:35] justinh: iamlindoro: use your HD-PVR :D
[05:53:48] iamlindoro: Heh, you might have something there
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[05:55:57] android60: with a service like scheduledirect, how does it interface with mythtv? does mythtv just login with ur account info and grab an xml file? how does it work
[05:56:09] iamlindoro: yes, more or less
[05:56:24] android60: so mythtv reads from an xml file for channel and guide listings?
[05:56:36] iamlindoro: yes
[05:56:53] android60: is there a place where i can find how the xml file needs to be formatted?
[05:56:54] RyeBrye: well, it reads that file and then dumps it into the DB right?
[05:57:08] iamlindoro: yes
[05:57:08] RyeBrye: myth isn't constantly chewing on XML files
[05:57:22] iamlindoro: correct, mythfilldatabase inserts the XML into the DB
[05:57:27] android60: so theoretically, if i manually put all the listings in an xml file up on a server, mythtv could grab it and put it in the db
[05:57:55] RyeBrye: that sounds a little ass backwards if you are doing it by hand – just create a load script and put it in the database yourself
[05:58:01] iamlindoro: You wouldn't need to put it on a server, if you have XMLTV compatible files, you could use them with mythfilldatabase's manual mode
[05:58:56] android60: RyeBrye: ya i know, but in theory i am correct?
[05:59:25] RyeBrye: yes
[05:59:34] RyeBrye: you can put your own data into myth
[06:00:13] android60: becuase i have some php experience, so follow this, i have the server when requested by mythtv to provide the xml file, the server could grab listing from say yahoo tv listings, compile it into the xml file with proper formatting, and supply that to myth
[06:00:32] RyeBrye: what country are you in?
[06:00:35] android60: usa
[06:00:58] clever: and wouldnt that violate the TOS for yahoo?
[06:01:02] RyeBrye: if you think that it's more worth your while to spend time making and maintaining your own screen scraper rather than paying the $20 per an entire year of reliable data... sure
[06:01:03] android60: idk id check
[06:01:24] android60: but my cable company also has listings, i doubt they would care for personal use
[06:01:25] RyeBrye: I'll save you the time – yes. no public listings site allows you to screen scrape.
[06:01:44] clever: RyeBrye: that 'reliable data' is causing me to record the weather network every day now:P
[06:01:56] clever: rogers changed the channel liineup and SD hasnt caught up
[06:02:11] RyeBrye: ah. weird. have you recorded the lineup error?
[06:02:30] android60: is there an example xml file so i can lookover the formatting required?
[06:02:34] clever: i informed them of 2 of the channels that changed as an example of what the valid lineup contained
[06:02:39] clever: and they fixed those 2 channels
[06:02:58] clever: i suspect they are waiting for rogers to reply with the full change, rogers.com doesnt even show the valid lineup
[06:03:28] sphery: clever: you know you can just swap the xmltvid's until they catch up, right?
[06:03:56] clever: sphery: i changed the channum field on one of my channels that got moved, but that broke things:P
[06:04:09] clever: so i just deleted the channel and let mfdb readd it at the normal place
[06:04:55] clever: also, atleast 1 of the changes was adding a channel to the lineup, and if i cant select that chan in SD, then adding the xmltv id doesnt sound like it would work
[06:06:10] sphery: clever: for a channel that moves from one frequency assignment to another, changing the xmltvid will mean that the listings appear on the correct/current channel
[06:06:34] clever: not dealing with frequency's, still using a channel change script
[06:06:47] sphery: chaning the channum will /only/ affect livetv (as it's only used for livetv, with one small guide display exception)
[06:06:54] justinh: xmltv.org have the brief
[06:06:58] sphery: however, changing the chanid will break a /lot/ of things
[06:07:07] clever: sphery: isnt there another column used to feed the channel changer script?
[06:07:22] clever: i know i changed 2 or 3 of them
[06:07:29] sphery: clever: if you're using an external channel change script, you also have the option of simply changing the freqid
[06:07:33] sphery: but not chanid
[06:07:35] justinh: android60: yahoo expressly forbid screen scraping, and they're known for changing page layouts every 5 minutes
[06:07:48] clever: yeah, chanid i know can be left alone
[06:07:49] android60: ok
[06:07:54] sphery: freqid changes external channel change script
[06:08:04] sphery: s/changes/feeds/
[06:08:10] clever: i forget what channel it was now, so i cant try it again
[06:08:27] android60: justinh: but i doubt my cable provider would care, they are pretty good about stuff like that, they even have unfiltered 3rd party newsgroup access no extra charge
[06:08:52] sphery: basically, though, with an external channel change script, the easiest fix is to change only the freqid
[06:08:54] justinh: android60: it's funny, but what rice do you put on your time? bet it's more than $20 per hour. and it'll take you way more than one hour
[06:09:00] justinh: s/rice/price
[06:09:07] sphery: but, as you said, it won't provide data for the channel for which they have no data
[06:09:09] android60: justinh: its a hobby thing
[06:09:22] android60: im doing it more for the challenge than for the convenience
[06:09:29] iamlindoro: so is mythTV, and using SD supports the community
[06:10:23] justinh: I have a moral objection to paying for stuff sometimes – usually only about the sheer amount but hey sometimes it's the easiest way
[06:10:36] sphery: android60: SD is a /much/ better option--you won't find the amount or quality of data that SD provides by combining data from every TV listings website on the 'net
[06:10:54] android60: all i want is show name and channel name
[06:11:04] sphery: and writing/maintaining a single web scraper will take you a lot of time
[06:11:08] justinh: sphery: having seen the descriptions of some shows, I find that saddening
[06:11:23] android60: iamlindoro: are you the one i was talking to the other day about the hauppauge 1800?
[06:11:29] sphery: there's much more to it than just the descriptions
[06:11:55] iamlindoro: android60, maybe
[06:12:04] justinh: sphery: I know, but descriptions are very important. still, SD can only go with what TMS are given
[06:12:05] sphery: android60: you'll need starttime/endtime/title/subtitle/description at minimum to have any kind of scheduling with duplicate checking
[06:12:25] android60: you said you had it , you asked if i live near atlanta?
[06:12:32] iamlindoro: no
[06:12:35] android60: ok nvm
[06:12:51] sphery: android60: and many websites actively attempt to prevent automated programs from downloading their data
[06:12:53] iamlindoro: Not only was that not me, that was not this channel
[06:13:19] android60: iamlindoro: heh, ya i think i mixed you up
[06:13:21] justinh: sphery: ahh the old chango-layout-o on page load-o trick
[06:13:24] justinh: seen that all over
[06:13:36] android60: i think it was the linux driver chan or someting to, sorry
[06:13:44] justinh: you need better firepower to scrape them babies
[06:13:55] sphery: yeah, that and just refusing requests based on timing/frequency of requests and/or user agent
[06:14:19] sphery: not to mention tons of JS scripts to make the data harder to capture (requiring JS support, etc)
[06:14:40] justinh: flash will come next I'm sure
[06:14:41] android60: spoofing a random useragent on request would be easy. i mean im not trying to steal or do anything illegal, just saying
[06:14:51] justinh: course you're not
[06:14:57] android60: ha im really not
[06:15:05] sphery: I even saw one (overseas one--don't remember where) that did every single piece of listings data with a palette of character images
[06:15:08] android60: im not goign to waste time on a project to just have it be for nothing
[06:15:11] justinh: but they really do value the data they pay for
[06:15:13] iamlindoro: just trying to get something for free after getting software and support for free
[06:15:19] justinh: information == money folks
[06:15:45] android60: i use linux for a reason, well a few, but mostly b.c its free. i could steal windows just as easy
[06:15:47] iamlindoro: Some would look at the fact that they're getting all of that and decide that $20 a year to support that community is a fair price to pay
[06:15:56] justinh: infact they're probably contractually obliged to make it hard to scrape
[06:16:09] iamlindoro: other people, on the other hand, don't give two craps about anyone but themselves
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[06:16:46] RyeBrye: If it would take me more than 15 minutes to write a scraper (which it would) SD pays for itself
[06:16:48] justinh: most/all tv guide data in the USA comes from one of two companies IIRC
[06:17:00] sphery: android60: stealing windows doesn't make it free
[06:17:27] android60: i know, but im saying i wouldnt steal tv listings
[06:17:34] sphery: and paying $10,000 for a Linux distro doesn't make it not free
[06:17:56] iamlindoro: android60, scraping any site would be stealing them
[06:18:10] iamlindoro: There are *no* sites whose terms of service permit it
[06:18:11] android60: iamlindoro: not if like my cable company wouldnt care
[06:18:14] ** justinh wonders how long uk_rt will continue to be free of charges **
[06:18:15] sphery: android60: if that's the case, go read the terms of service on some websites and come back here when you find one that allows (or even does not explicitly disallow) scraping the data and placing it in a database
[06:18:29] iamlindoro: "Wouldn't care" != allowed by terms of service
[06:18:41] RyeBrye: the cable company doesn't own the data
[06:18:49] RyeBrye: they pay TMS for it, most likely
[06:18:51] android60: not not allowed != not allowed either
[06:18:55] sphery: android60: if you do that, we'd be happy to help you find the tools/support you need to write the scraper and many cheapska^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpeople in the MythTV community will thanks you for it
[06:19:22] clever: sphery: seems like you need another 'stty erase ^H' :P
[06:19:24] sphery: link to TOS
[06:19:31] sphery: clever: heh :)
[06:19:50] clever: i find that that gets broken often when i ssh into redhat inside screen
[06:19:58] RyeBrye: can schedules direct provide promotional images like the ones it appears zap2it provides for TiVo's site?
[06:20:03] clever: but bash doesnt care that its broken, so it only goes nuts when i start to edit files
[06:20:13] sphery: mine gets broken a lot when I feel I shouldn't say what I'm actually thinking
[06:20:15] justinh: RyeBrye: it's being looked into I think
[06:20:28] RyeBrye: cool.
[06:20:55] justinh: I want to know where thetvdb.com fanart people get their images from
[06:20:56] iamlindoro: I see a day in the near future where the disk space requirements for metadata skyrocket
[06:21:04] justinh: heh
[06:21:06] android60: ill investigate the legalities using certain sites and get back to you guys
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[06:21:19] justinh: and THEN will people see the point in myth having a database?
[06:21:23] justinh: nah!
[06:21:41] RyeBrye: android60: and in the time it takes you to even investigate that, you will have spent WAAAAY more than $20 worth of time
[06:21:50] sphery: android60: anyway, for real, the XMLTV devs will actually help anyone create a grabber for listings in the US provided they can provide proof that it's not disallowed by the TOS.
[06:22:03] sphery: so the first task is finding that website to be the source of info
[06:22:11] android60: ya
[06:22:26] sphery: (oh, and to get you started, zap2it.com and tvguide.com are both out of the running)
[06:22:29] android60: RyeBrye: like i said its for the challenge, and if i can do it legally itll save a lot more people than me the $20
[06:22:46] clever: sphery: i noticed that the weather program i have on windows is pulling xml files for its data
[06:23:04] clever: sphery: might it be allowed to just use the same url in mythweather?
[06:23:17] sphery: MythWeather now does that for the US (using the National Weather Service)
[06:23:23] RyeBrye: getting weather data is not hard
[06:23:26] clever: this is in canada
[06:23:35] android60: later guys
[06:23:44] clever: http://weyedata.pelmorex.com/WeatherEye/ObsData/CANB0029.xml is one of the url's
[06:23:51] sphery: it now supports pluggable scripts, so provided it's a legal source, you can create a Canadian weather grabber script
[06:24:24] justinh: sphery: and yahoo, and google, if they have tv listing data
[06:24:26] justinh: and MSN
[06:24:38] iamlindoro: "anyone who buys data from TMS"
[06:24:44] iamlindoro: oh wait, that's EVERYONE
[06:24:50] sphery: yeah, figured I'd start with the biggies
[06:24:55] RyeBrye: there is that one other company, isn't there?
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[06:25:19] justinh: the BBC make all kinds of metadata available
[06:25:26] sphery: iamlindoro: well, everyone except those that use their competitor's (Gemstar? whoever owns TV Guide) data  :)
[06:25:35] sphery: but I'm sure the same applies to their data
[06:25:59] RyeBrye: http://www3.tivo.com/images/zap2it/programs/1 . . . ce_h1_aa.jpg do their program numbers on the TiVo site line up with the ones that we use from SD?
[06:26:03] clever: sphery: cant realy find the TOS for the weather site, it just says 'Welcome to Load Balancing Web Site !!! ' on the root page
[06:26:17] sphery: Hmmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemstar "/was/ a media company"
[06:26:45] clever: sphery: does a crappy site design mean im free to scrape it ? :P
[06:26:48] sphery: clever: probably the data is owned by someone else who's hired that load balancing company to help distribute it
[06:27:12] clever: that could be it
[06:27:20] sphery: "On December 7, 2007, Gemstar signed a definitive agreement to be acquired by Macrovision in a cash and stock deal"
[06:27:26] justinh: ARGHHH! MY EYES!
[06:27:45] sphery: and we all know how Macrovision feels about protecting intellectual property, so...
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[06:28:10] justinh: RyeBrye: Golden Girls pics should always be accompanied by a warning
[06:28:24] RyeBrye: face it – bea arthur makes you hot :)
[06:28:25] sphery: ah, how I long for the days of Macrovision-protected VCR tapes...
[06:28:42] justinh: RyeBrye: nah, best contraceptive known to man
[06:28:59] justinh: sphery: heh. all you need is a sync reconstructor :)
[06:29:35] sphery: Then I could get my N'Sync tape working!
[06:29:44] sphery: Oh, wait, you were talking about something else.
[06:30:09] justinh: I want to see a real-life Celebrity Deathmatch show start up
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[06:30:41] justinh: up first.. paris hilton Vs Amy Winehouse
[06:30:54] RyeBrye: http://www3.tivo.com/images/zap2it/programs/1 . . . ce_h1_aa.jpg <-- not golden girls.... but if program id's match up – I know a source for images... ;) .../${progamid}/p${programid}_ce_h1_aa.jpg ;)
[06:31:08] justinh: RyeBrye: naughty
[06:31:22] iamlindoro: RyeBrye, No, Golden Girls on SD is EP00017476
[06:31:27] RyeBrye: http://www3.tivo.com/images/zap2it/programs/1 . . . ce_h1_aa.jpg ... yep.. sequential
[06:31:40] justinh: iamlindoro: you just contravened fella
[06:32:00] iamlindoro: justinh, Hrm?
[06:32:20] justinh: you're not allowed to redistribute program data :P
[06:32:41] iamlindoro: Yes, and I'm preventing violation of tivo ToS :)
[06:32:48] sphery: RyeBrye: SD program ID's are 12 digits (10 if you don't count the 2 initial 0's)
[06:33:01] RyeBrye: I'm not serious about scraping TiVo's site
[06:33:04] justinh: ahahahah
[06:33:06] RyeBrye: but I do have a new hobby now
[06:33:17] RyeBrye: http://www3.tivo.com/images/zap2it/programs/1 . . . ce_h1_aa.jpg <-- increment the numbers until you find something strange
[06:33:27] justinh: tivo goatse?
[06:34:10] RyeBrye: I've found some interesting stuff
[06:34:15] RyeBrye: but not goatse yet
[06:35:04] justinh: there was somebody who was trying to claim they'd been 'hacked' by that method. I'd be careful
[06:35:04] iamlindoro: Someone *really* needs to go in the the commflag code and build a aspect ratio change detection method now that we have it
[06:35:16] justinh: iamlindoro: I thought gbee had
[06:35:30] iamlindoro: justinh, Hrm, has he? I wasn't aware anyone had touched it yet
[06:35:43] justinh: I know he did the change detection
[06:35:57] iamlindoro: right, but don't think anyone's touched mythcommflag yet
[06:35:58] justinh: oh you mean it's there but not in as a method yet
[06:36:02] RyeBrye: hacked by what method?
[06:36:09] justinh: RyeBrye: URL guessing
[06:36:21] justinh: guessing/mis-typing
[06:36:52] justinh: tenuous huh
[06:36:54] RyeBrye: yeah
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[06:45:48] sphery: iamlindoro: It is becoming FrankenMyth... Just got the #5900 audio patches (the ones that I'd be a lot more comfortable with if Mark S looked at).
[06:46:10] iamlindoro: yep, saw that
[06:46:15] sphery: not to mention the LATM/AAC patches
[06:46:44] iamlindoro: ah-yup
[06:47:06] sphery: How many changes from stable Myth does it take to make a fork? (Four, perhaps? One for each tine on a standard dinner fork? Maybe only 2 if you talk about an oyster fork...)
[06:47:07] iamlindoro: and possibly the early used by three of us HD-PVR patches that make the MPEg-2 recorder use the HD-PVR
[06:47:17] iamlindoro: Three for an escargot fork
[06:47:19] Chutt: why are you guys so bothered about all this?
[06:48:07] sphery: Just finding it interesting. I'm really amazed at how impatient people are for support for it.
[06:48:53] Chutt: you've been bitching about it for days, now
[06:48:56] iamlindoro: Speaking for myself, I spend a fair amount of time answering question about myth here and on the list-- it's complicated enough to determine what bizarre steps people have taken let alone weird permutations like this
[06:49:14] iamlindoro: And who knows what will happen and what people will fail to mention when .22 *does* come?
[06:49:25] Chutt: so ask what they're using, then say 'no support unless it's a release'
[06:49:27] Chutt: or whatever
[06:49:37] Chutt: the whole thing's kind of the point of open source software
[06:50:08] RyeBrye: yeah. They can pay for a subscription for MythTV Enterprise if they want support for their batshit-crazy version
[06:50:18] RyeBrye: ;)
[06:50:30] iamlindoro: Chutt, I understand since you primarily occupy yourself with development that it's easy to absolve yourself of that stuff, but surely you can see my perspective? If they want to do what they will with the software, go to it, but muddying the waters of the support channels for the "real thing" isn't helpful
[06:50:39] Chutt: no, honestly, i can't
[06:50:40] mchou: oh lord
[06:50:54] Chutt: has anyone asked for help with it?
[06:51:00] mchou: iamlindoro: no one says you have to provide support
[06:51:06] iamlindoro: Chutt, one person in earlier tonight, and numerous on the list.
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[06:51:18] Chutt: no, there were numerous people on the list thanking the guy for doing it
[06:51:20] iamlindoro: Chutt, anyway, to each his own *shrug*
[06:51:33] iamlindoro: Chutt, take a look again, there are multiple support requests for it
[06:52:01] Chutt: for some obvious errors which would've happened with 0.22 if it were to be released now
[06:52:29] Chutt: like the atrpms packaging crap
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[07:05:52] wagnerrp: i fear im about to do something clever
[07:06:15] iamlindoro: A dangerous proposition given the local meaning of clever
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[07:06:28] wagnerrp: my iscsi server occasionally drops offline
[07:06:34] wagnerrp: and while nfsroot can recover, iscsi cannot
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[07:06:47] wagnerrp: so im going to embed a small ssh server inside the boot initrd
[07:06:57] wagnerrp: so i can remotely restart if necessary
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[07:09:46] wagnerrp: a work around instead of just solving the initial problem directly
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[07:26:33] RyeBrye: wagnerrp: dropbear is a really small ssh server
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[08:06:03] jroysdon: I've got a dual-tuner card (not sure the exact model, but it has two PVR-500 chips on it). How or what do I configure it as in MythTV? Do I need to add it twice? Otherwise, I appear to only get Tuner 1 if I just add it once.
[08:06:27] justinh: dual tuners need to be added as two tuners
[08:06:35] jroysdon: Hmm, perhaps once as /dev/video0 and /dev/video1 ?
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[08:07:00] justinh: do you already know both tuners work and produce mpeg2?
[08:07:09] jroysdon: yup, it worked with 0.20
[08:07:23] jroysdon: I just reinstalled MythDora 10.21 from scratch
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[08:10:33] jroysdon: Ok, if I recall right, even though I have tuner1, composite, and svideo1 & svideo2, I can only record on one at a time, per /dev/videoX, correct?
[08:10:45] justinh: correct
[08:10:57] ** jroysdon scratches his head a bit **
[08:11:20] jroysdon: Hrm, well, I guess for OTA soon I'll need a digital card anyway, so that's all good.
[08:13:13] jroysdon: If /dev/video0 Tuner 1 & /dev/video1 Tuner 2 both input from my cable (no convert box) and have the same thing, is there any reason to have a different input priority other than 0 for both? Hmm, and what is the input groups for, do I need to assign them to anything of those?
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[08:13:56] justinh: input grouping is for cases where you'd want to use multiple inputs on one tuner card
[08:14:35] jroysdon: oh, perhaps like some sort of switching device, or using tuner1, composit, and svideo1 & svideo2?
[08:14:44] justinh: what?
[08:15:02] jroysdon: (In other words, so it knows all 4 things are on the same tuner and that it cannot record from all of them at once, but only one at a time?)
[08:15:12] justinh: say you wanted to swap between recording from the tuner on /dev/video0 and svideo on /dev/video0. that kind of deal
[08:15:29] jroysdon: yup, ok, I'll mess with that later, but that makes sense
[08:15:34] justinh: or if you had one of those retarded hybrid cards
[08:15:47] jroysdon: Oh, that was my other question – is there a way to group/hide channels w/o deleting them? I don't want stuff like the shopping channels showing, but would like to manually be able to punch in that channel number if I really wanted to
[08:15:59] justinh: no channel grouping is possible yet
[08:16:07] jroysdon: (same goes for Spanish, but perhaps a soccer match is on that I want to see, etc.)
[08:16:09] justinh: but you can set channels to hidden
[08:16:12] tank-man: is that favoriutes?
[08:16:20] jroysdon: How do I hide a channel?
[08:16:21] tank-man: is'nt
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[08:16:30] justinh: you set it to hidden
[08:16:32] justinh: easy
[08:16:55] jroysdon: In the channel editor?
[08:17:21] justinh: hmmm. I want to edit a channel's properties. where might I be able to do that?
[08:17:33] justinh: I know! in WATCH RECORDINGS!
[08:17:44] jroysdon: I don't see a hide option, other than hide channels w/o channel number
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[08:18:04] jroysdon: oh, I see it, I have to select it
[08:18:04] justinh: what's the opposite of 'hidden' ?
[08:18:19] jroysdon: MythTV's menus are not always intuitive
[08:18:25] jroysdon: and/or my remote isn't set up the best
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[08:18:46] justinh: no, mythtv's users do not always have intuition or the ability to think for themselves. sheesh
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[08:19:44] ** lyricnz just discovered http://mythtvnews.com/ **
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[08:20:21] justinh: they better not have the very latest news...
[08:20:42] justinh: nope. gonna take a while for that nugget to filter down
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[08:23:46] jroysdon: Is there a way w/in the frontend to kick off the mythfill script?
[08:24:31] jroysdon: Right now I don't have a permanent network connected to my box, so I'm using a crossover to my laptop and my laptop is routing it via my wireless, but just long enough for me to get channels and then I'll have to do this again once every 10 days or so
[08:27:20] jroysdon: Who maintains mythtvnews.com? No mention of MythDora 10.21 being released in the beginning of January...
[08:27:30] jroysdon: Ah, I see it in the about page
[08:29:28] justinh: I didn't know mythdora 10.21 was released
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[08:30:36] lyricnz: which nugget?
[08:30:38] justinh: I don't even know why there's so much effort going into making so many solutions with the same goal rather than pooling everybody's talent
[08:30:49] justinh: lyricnz: you're better off not knowing
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[08:54:50] justinh: oh Mister Ma you've done it again
[08:55:16] justinh: I approve a new connector sample you send, and then what you end up shipping to us has a completely different footprint
[08:55:21] ** lyricnz is optimistic this nvdia acceleration thing will help his machines **
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[08:55:34] justinh: trunky :)
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[09:12:12] justinh: time to head to the lab & do some 'work'
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[09:13:51] jduggan: work? wuh? you'll frighten teh clever and dustybin's
[09:13:55] jduggan: :S
[09:20:37] justinh: did you miss this? dustybin got a job
[09:20:51] justinh: started on Monday
[09:21:03] jduggan: oh wow wtfs
[09:21:18] justinh: printing prep stuff apparently
[09:21:24] jduggan: good on him
[09:21:26] jduggan: :o
[09:21:28] jduggan: sorta
[09:21:29] jduggan: ;]
[09:21:49] justinh: bah. EWRONGPASSWORD
[09:21:56] justinh: gonna do a screencap
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[09:23:34] jroysdon: The streaming internet plugin – any plans to allow it to record content to disk?
[09:24:04] justinh: that'd depend awfully on the stream T&Cs I'd have thought
[09:25:27] jroysdon: Well, in this case it's a streaming tv channel I don't get with my cable package (actually, my provider just doesn't offer it period), but if I lived elsewhere I could get.
[09:26:01] jroysdon: Basically wanting the ability to timeshift the show, like any other content I'd record with mythtv
[09:26:30] jroysdon: Of course, I want to do the same thing with fm radio as there are a few radio dramas on that I want to record
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[09:28:07] jroysdon: Argh, I don't recall as I set them up so long ago – where does one add Group Filters?
[09:31:58] justinh: oh, man. this animated background might be staying
[09:33:13] jroysdon: Recording Group storage = Group Filter when one goes to view the listings?
[09:33:35] justinh: no. storage groups are different to recording groups
[09:34:14] jroysdon: ok, but they are under Storage Options on the frontend
[09:34:23] jroysdon: I dislike a lot of the menu nesting... confusing at times
[09:34:41] jroysdon: (especially when it doesn't relate at all to how mythweb shows and labels things)
[09:34:48] justinh: muh muh muh
[09:34:59] justinh: I dislike a lot of things people say about mythtv :)
[09:35:12] jroysdon: ;-p
[09:36:22] justinh: there's a lot I'd like to change, but some of it could only stay as local changes – I can forsee some things meeting a _lot_ of resistance
[09:38:37] jroysdon: yup, I hear ya
[09:39:09] jroysdon: I hack the menus all up anyway. For instance, we don't have Live TV accessible, remove all the setup menus, etc.
[09:39:45] jroysdon: We put everything into Recording Groups, and have different Group Filter passwords, etc.
[09:40:35] jroysdon: Hmm, where is the option to remove LiveTV from the Group Filters in the Recorded Shows?
[09:40:47] jroysdon: (that is, previously recorded LiveTV stuff)
[09:41:46] justinh: oh boy
[09:41:58] justinh: press M in 'watch recordings'.
[09:43:05] jroysdon: ah
[09:43:45] Gumby: can anyone suggest what the best way to archive a storage group would be? I dont necessarily need to transcode anything, just move the recordings to a specified directory and rename them to something that is more human friendly
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[09:45:16] Gumby: and also remove the entries from the db (so they dont show up in my recordings listing)
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[10:03:12] quicksilver: Gumby: mythrename will rename things to something more huamn friendly.
[10:12:58] justinh: wtf kind of OT thread is this? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/368189 lol
[10:15:30] justinh: ooo Noel Clarke has said he wouldn't mind being asked to return to Dr Who eh. Yeh well *I* would mind
[10:16:30] Gumby: quicksilver: yes, but that only does a minor part of what I need. thanks for the thought though
[10:19:13] laga: justinh: yeah, beww tends to get OT
[10:19:48] justinh: what next? I'm gonna paint my shed this weekend. What colour should it be?
[10:20:30] directhex: candy pink
[10:24:56] jduggan: creosote brown
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[10:32:22] laga: kubuntu blue
[10:32:36] directhex: ubuntu satanic edition black
[10:33:53] laga: i should put out a bounty. whoever gives me a working "kill this thread" extension for firefox gets 20€ or so
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[11:26:19] Dibblah: justinh: Funky. There _may_ be a driver in development for the £11 DVB-t sticks I ordered.
[11:26:39] Dibblah: I found the datasheet for a related part and someone else got all excited.
[11:26:52] justinh: I'm happy with my dual tuner usb dvb-t stick
[11:26:56] Dibblah: :)
[11:27:06] justinh: not happy with the aerial thoguh
[11:27:21] jduggan: bee sting aerial?
[11:27:22] jduggan: ;O
[11:27:48] Dibblah: Those free antennas work great.
[11:27:54] justinh: as what?
[11:27:56] justinh: eye stabbers?
[11:28:01] Dibblah: While you're sitting under the mast.
[11:28:06] justinh: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/concept.ogg for laughs
[11:28:13] Dibblah: As long as you point it in the right direction.
[11:28:24] Dibblah: And don't have a mobile with you.
[11:29:04] directhex: justinh, neato, although decimate the framerate of the background
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[11:29:29] justinh: directhex: threaded screen creation/loading will help nix that
[11:29:55] justinh: it's not such a distraction in use
[11:30:18] justinh: and the 'loop' I used isn't seamless. nor is it subtle
[11:30:29] justinh: but I can make my own. this is just proof of concept
[11:30:31] directhex: the background looks rather like the playstation 3 default – http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1sWOIPb1TlQ&feature=related  :p
[11:31:25] justinh: man I hate cross menus
[11:31:38] Dibblah: How do they make you feel?
[11:31:47] directhex: i'm not talking about the cross menu, just the wallpaper
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[11:32:04] directhex: until the guy gets super-mature & switches to an image marked "xbox sucks"
[11:32:09] justinh: yeah it's blue & smokey
[11:32:35] directhex: yes!
[11:32:51] directhex: actually they changed it to a different color every month, but still
[11:33:21] Dagmar: That's kinda of questionable to admit to knowing
[11:33:27] Dagmar: s/of//;
[11:35:29] directhex: it's only questionable if you know offhand which month is pink
[11:37:02] directhex: whereas i had to google it. march is pink.
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[12:27:49] sivel: hello all
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[12:55:49] justinh: hmm what I'd really love to be able to do is a loop like those used on Wonnafon Woss' show. lava lamp bubbles
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[13:06:25] Dibblah: Oooh, that's interesting. Pin 11 on the SATA power standard for the Seagate line is noted as "ground or LED signal" – and deferred spinup.
[13:07:24] justinh: getting at pin 11 might be slightly tricky though
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[13:14:50] Dibblah: Indeed. Annoying baskets :(
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[13:26:17] Dibblah: justinh: One solution: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt . . . 170297939817
[13:26:49] Dibblah: Not so much of a fan of their idea of microstrip routing, but... :(
[13:35:37] justinh: jees. the more I see this the more I want it
[13:35:53] justinh: it's rucking focking now
[13:37:18] Dibblah: Animated stuff?
[13:37:41] justinh: yup
[13:37:50] justinh: need to make my own backgrounds though
[13:38:31] justinh: I now remember it's not as easy as first appears to make seamless 'plasma' type effects
[13:38:54] justinh: wonder if a trial version of Adobe AE is fully functional
[13:41:49] jduggan: have any of you actually seen sata damage because of removal and plugging?
[13:42:58] justinh: I wouldn't know about that
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[13:46:09] jduggan: sounds like a farce
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[13:46:58] Dibblah: jduggan: It's possible. More on the plug than the socket end, though.
[13:47:35] Dibblah: For me, I am looking at making a proper backplane, and the damn connectors are just hard to get hold of.
[13:48:00] Dibblah: (The real connectors, not the moulded ones with pins joined)
[13:51:25] aBs0lut30: need some ideas, i rebooted last night and when it came back up, i no longer get sound on recordings or live tv with AC3 audio...
[13:52:19] justinh: molex not do em?
[13:53:12] aBs0lut30: huh?
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[13:54:44] Dibblah: Yes, if you like 10k minimum orders ;)
[13:54:58] justinh: samples? ;)
[13:55:15] aBs0lut30: also, anybody recomend a good sound card? i blew my audigy2 last night...
[13:56:37] Dibblah: Lucky audigy2.
[13:56:41] Dibblah: Ahem. Sorry. ;)
[13:57:07] justinh: ruh?
[13:57:24] justinh: ah. the list
[13:57:51] aBs0lut30: haha, yeah was trying to figure out what happened to the sound from my files, and went into that little sound config app in gnome, hit test and i guess I had all the volume tunred to 100 and it fried the livedrive and the input on my reciever... :( i was in tears
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[14:01:14] Dibblah: Theoretically, you shouldn't be able to do that.
[14:03:02] aBs0lut30: yeah, thats what i would have thought... but once i rebooted the liveDrive unit would never come back on... moved pci slots and everything, so i swapped back to the crappy onboard sound board and hooked the spdif back up and the input on the reciever was all messed up, so not 100% sure what happened but it died...
[14:06:20] aBs0lut30: HOLY CRAP the new X-Fi is almost 300bux!
[14:06:59] laga: the new x-fi doesnt work in linux AFAIR
[14:07:05] laga: i wouldn't buy creative at all
[14:07:22] laga: they did release a driver or docs, but i don't know how well it works
[14:07:28] aBs0lut30: what would be a good quality card that will work well then?
[14:08:05] aBs0lut30: I have a fairly highend home theater rec and speakers so I want a good card that will drive it well...
[14:08:18] GreyFoxx: Man, where is the 0.21-fixes+hdpvr+vdpau+funkydvb+ZOOOOOM branch?
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[14:08:29] GreyFoxx: "That's what we call Trunk" :)
[14:08:50] mag0o: haha GreyFoxx
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[14:10:29] justinh: hmm I can do some backgrounds in Vegas
[14:10:41] GreyFoxx: it just seems silly
[14:11:01] GreyFoxx: justinh: Was that a real animated background in your video or some sort of fake voodo ? :)
[14:11:05] justinh: make plasma bitmaps of varying transparency, then put a few of them on 3d planes with blurs
[14:11:09] justinh: GreyFoxx: real
[14:11:21] GreyFoxx: Nice! I didn't reallize that would work
[14:11:29] GreyFoxx: standard flippbook animation stuff ?
[14:11:33] justinh: aye
[14:11:37] GreyFoxx: cool
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[14:14:54] aBs0lut30: laga: what about the Asus Xonar cards?
[14:15:59] laga: aBs0lut30: dunno :)
[14:16:18] laga: aBs0lut30: i usually use onboard sound
[14:16:22] justinh: aka RAM eater
[14:16:35] aBs0lut30: hehe
[14:17:20] aBs0lut30: justinh: got any recomendations??
[14:20:02] afm: hmm after a fresh reboot...i get Node 1 active for firewire plugreport. all tests for p2p and bcast fail. after a bus reset, i get Node 0 and all tests fail..
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[14:23:42] afm: yet myth actually picked up the GID and STB model, channel changing works...no video
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[14:31:15] IceWewe: hello all
[14:31:36] IceWewe: I'm running mythtv 0.21-p19046 and it's *constantly* accessing my disk
[14:32:06] IceWewe: it's small accesses, about 600–1000KB/s but it's annoying, and I suspect, detrimental to my disk's longevity
[14:32:39] justinh: watching 'live tv' eh?
[14:34:43] justinh: IceWewe: you do know mythtv records everything don't you?
[14:34:48] justinh: hence the disk activity
[14:35:01] justinh: and no, you can't turn it off. if you watch, it records
[14:35:12] IceWewe: no
[14:35:20] IceWewe: I'm doing nothing, infact mythbackend is refusing connections
[14:35:40] joe2371: I have my backend up and running. I am trying to set up my laptop as a temporary frontend. However, I am getting the error: "Cannot login to database?" on the laptop. But I'm reasonably sure that the necessary ports are open on both firewalls. Could this message refer to the database of the frontend instead?
[14:35:43] justinh: it must be doing _something_
[14:36:00] IceWewe: justinh, you are correct, it is doing _something_
[14:36:17] IceWewe: justinh, it's spewing constant errors over not being able to access the mysql database, I am investigating
[14:36:48] aBs0lut30: Sweet, ALSA says the Asus cards are supported :D
[14:37:24] justinh: :-\ same old same old
[14:38:14] IceWewe: this is so weird....
[14:38:18] IceWewe: mysql is running fine
[14:38:29] IceWewe: mythbackend has the same login creds it's always had...
[14:38:30] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: Running Trunk ?
[14:38:36] IceWewe: and yet it refuses to login
[14:38:42] GreyFoxx: oh, no your using -fixes
[14:39:17] IceWewe: GreyFoxx, yes, but it's the same version I've been running before
[14:39:36] IceWewe: it's... being weird
[14:39:38] IceWewe: Access denied for user 'mythtv'@'localhost' (using password: NO)
[14:40:01] IceWewe: and yet... straight in /etc/mythtv/.mythtv/config.xml it states the user as mythtv and the password as mythtv
[14:40:11] IceWewe: (before choose a better password, etc.)
[14:40:18] GreyFoxx: Is there another one in ~user/.mythtv ?
[14:40:37] IceWewe: yes
[14:41:12] GreyFoxx: one thing to also check is if there is another backend process running with --gen-preview or whatever going on
[14:41:30] IceWewe: there are no other backends running
[14:41:39] GreyFoxx: A few of us in trunk have had that kinda freak out recently and start spewing crap about being unable to get into the database
[14:42:05] IceWewe: log ouput is here: http://pastebin.com/d43d1924b
[14:42:10] IceWewe: perhaps it's smething you've seen before
[14:42:45] justinh: IceWewe: check the ~/.mythtv/config.xml file
[14:42:46] GreyFoxx: Yup, looks similar to a ticket we have going on
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[14:43:15] IceWewe: justinh, they all exist in the same way as they have for the months upon months that mythtv has been working flawlessly
[14:43:23] IceWewe: GreyFoxx, so it's sit back and wait for a fix, or downgrade?
[14:44:06] justinh: downgrade?
[14:44:14] justinh: thought you said you've not touched it
[14:44:29] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: Check again to see if more than 1 backend process is running
[14:44:42] IceWewe: I've just updated about everything else on the system, it's possible that upgrading something else preturbed mythtv
[14:44:54] justinh: ffs
[14:45:01] justinh: bingo
[14:45:08] IceWewe: GreyFoxx, 'ps ax | grep myth' yields nothing
[14:45:16] justinh: s/possible/highly-probable
[14:45:31] IceWewe: yes, thank you
[14:45:42] IceWewe: that's why I didn't come on here saying "it's not working, diagnose!"
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[14:45:51] IceWewe: I'm trying to be constructive here
[14:46:03] justinh: it's always the same when you guys say it "just stopped working all of a sudden"
[14:46:19] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: Ok, for me it only happens when the backend is running, and another is spawned to make previews
[14:46:35] GreyFoxx: And it's something that just recently started
[14:46:43] justinh: IceWewe: and you can still log into the mysql server with the same user & pass as before?
[14:46:59] GreyFoxx: the spawned process doesn't seem to get a response to the sql query and does not fail back to it's config file
[14:47:26] justinh: if you have a mysql.txt file, rename or otherwise get rid of it
[14:48:25] justinh: or just make sure it has the correct credentials
[14:48:26] IceWewe: justinh, yes, I can still login to the mysql database using the credentials set forth in the config.xml file
[14:48:40] IceWewe: yes, I have a mysql.txt file that is blank for username and credentials
[14:48:40] justinh: what does mysql.txt have inside?
[14:48:47] justinh: get it out of the way
[14:48:52] justinh: or correct it
[14:49:06] IceWewe: hrm
[14:49:07] IceWewe: well done
[14:49:09] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6157
[14:49:15] justinh: it's falling back to theone with the wrong stuff in it by the sound of things
[14:49:45] IceWewe: what package is mysql.txt generally included with? mythtv?
[14:49:53] justinh: it's not
[14:49:55] justinh: not AFAIK
[14:50:09] GreyFoxx: Myth auto creates it. No idea if someone packages it as well
[14:50:21] justinh: they blimmin well shouldn't
[14:51:08] IceWewe: well it's strange, because with mythbackend successfully started, I see no generation of this file
[14:51:20] justinh: mythbackend doesn't start it
[14:51:26] justinh: s/start/create
[14:51:38] IceWewe: I didn't say that
[14:51:40] GreyFoxx: The frontend will create it, the backend will fall back to it
[14:51:47] IceWewe: hrm
[14:51:56] GreyFoxx: Basically you can have connection info in mysql.txt or config.xml
[14:52:00] IceWewe: why is the frontend generating any files for the backend?
[14:52:06] justinh: it creates it from the details you give it when you first run it
[14:52:07] IceWewe: that seems counter-productive
[14:52:13] GreyFoxx: It's generating it for itself, but the backend will also use it
[14:52:25] GreyFoxx: It's a chicken and egg thing
[14:52:46] GreyFoxx: the backend must have aconfig file to know how to talk to the database, so must the frontend
[14:52:53] IceWewe: interesting
[14:52:54] GreyFoxx: both will use the same file if available
[14:53:14] IceWewe: so both will use config.xml, unless, and for some strange reason it existed on my system, mysql.txt is there
[14:54:16] IceWewe: hmmm, perhaps we can diagnose another problem I've been having with mythtv, if you all can stand me for another couple minutes
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[14:55:06] IceWewe: ever since my switch from nvidia to ATI, when watching or playing back TV through mythfrontend, there are two pictures present
[14:55:12] ** GreyFoxx sighs as he cannot seem to find any compat-libstdc++ tarballs for slackware **
[14:55:29] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: Change your deinterlacer from Bob to something else
[14:55:34] GreyFoxx: That's a common ATI bug
[14:55:42] justinh: why would anyone switch _from_ nvidia ?! :-O
[14:55:54] IceWewe: justinh, I needed a cheap/powerful 1 slot card to replace my aging 7900GTX
[14:56:00] IceWewe: the 3850 was that card
[14:56:17] justinh: powerful has no meaning in linux
[14:56:35] justinh: not w.r.t. ATI cards
[14:56:57] IceWewe: heh
[14:57:04] IceWewe: well, I'm slowly finding this out for myself
[14:57:17] IceWewe: GreyFoxx, sorry to be thick-headed, but where is that setting defined? frontend or setup?
[14:57:40] justinh: frontend
[14:57:53] justinh: video playback profiles. tv settings > playback
[14:57:55] IceWewe: I must be missing something...
[14:58:08] justinh: utils.setup > setup > tv > playback
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[14:58:24] justinh: buried in there
[14:58:49] IceWewe: yeah... well it's buried well
[14:59:00] IceWewe: because I've been through this, and I can't find deinterlacing settings
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[15:00:09] justinh: you ain't looking hard enough then :)
[15:00:25] IceWewe: must be
[15:00:30] IceWewe: because I'm still not finding it
[15:00:37] IceWewe: does this really exist in 0.21?
[15:00:50] justinh: yes
[15:01:04] justinh: ok here we go
[15:01:08] justinh: utils.setup
[15:01:19] IceWewe: there
[15:01:21] justinh: setup
[15:01:24] IceWewe: there
[15:01:31] justinh: tv settings
[15:01:38] IceWewe: there
[15:01:40] justinh: playback
[15:01:42] IceWewe: there
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[15:01:50] wagnerrp: i spent half an hour clearing a half inch of ice off my car this morning
[15:02:06] justinh: IceWewe: 3rd page. playback profiles
[15:02:12] IceWewe: CPU++
[15:02:12] justinh: see them 'edit' buttons?
[15:02:32] IceWewe: yes
[15:02:40] IceWewe: but I see Decoder: Standard
[15:02:40] justinh: try one
[15:02:41] loki_666_: i'm experiencing slowdown when retrieving program info when watching liveTV
[15:02:51] justinh: IceWewe: decoder yes, not deinterlacer
[15:02:52] loki_666_: any idea? mysql maintenance?
[15:02:52] IceWewe: Video Renderer: xv-blit
[15:03:01] wagnerrp: and yet the UPS still has their trucks rolling
[15:03:01] IceWewe: I see *no* deinterlacer setting
[15:03:08] GreyFoxx: IceWewe: Hit next
[15:03:13] GreyFoxx: it will show it on the next page
[15:03:14] wagnerrp: IceWewe: its on the second page
[15:03:19] IceWewe: linear blend
[15:03:20] IceWewe: not bob
[15:03:44] GreyFoxx: I've only heard of what you are describing on ATI cards with bob
[15:03:48] justinh: so the problem is that your ATI driver sucks. welcome to the happy land of ATI on loonix
[15:04:16] justinh: it's really very common
[15:05:54] justinh: and you're no doubt thinking "hmmm well other players aren't plagued by this".. but they likely don't rely on Xv
[15:07:09] IceWewe: it works now...
[15:07:12] IceWewe: on the libmpeg2 decoder
[15:07:17] IceWewe: instead of standard
[15:07:25] IceWewe: I couldn't make it work on standard with any deinterlacer
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[15:10:31] aBs0lut30: anyway on my original question, what could make ac3 playback just stop all of a sudden?
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[15:13:54] justinh: oh crap. "muh muh muh, me want mpeg4 dvb-t tuner. most dvb-t tuner only work mpeg2.". I need my gun
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[15:14:46] aBs0lut30: justinh: sounds like you need a vacation ;)
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[15:15:28] ivor_: nah he'd only grumble about the food, weather and tourists....
[15:15:36] aBs0lut30: lol
[15:16:12] aBs0lut30: well as someone who likes go grumble and complain myself, a change of things to grumbel and complain about is nice every once and a while...
[15:16:46] justinh: I see unclued users. they're frickin everywhere
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[15:17:23] justinh: and I've TRIED staying the hell out of this channel. like that ever works
[15:19:43] justinh: some good news: ITV are to stop making Heartbeat & The Royal :D
[15:20:46] gbee: is it because they want to spend the money on great new original drama? No, it's because they can't afford them anymore and will knock out a few more cheap reality shows instead
[15:20:49] gbee: :/
[15:20:56] ivor_: more room for celebrity dancing in the icy jungle with paris?
[15:21:19] justinh: cool. more reasons to not watch ITV :)
[15:21:53] ivor_: reality fly on the wall celebrity docu-soap how not what to look like....
[15:22:59] jduggan: erm
[15:23:04] jduggan: heartbeat & the royal
[15:23:09] jduggan: i read a similar story
[15:23:11] jduggan: but
[15:23:18] jduggan: it said they had so many backed up episodes still not aired
[15:23:23] jduggan: that theyre taking a production break
[15:23:38] jduggan: which is funny when you see headlines like 'itv axes heartbeat'
[15:23:51] justinh: trust people to put a positive spin on it
[15:23:55] jduggan: LOL
[15:25:33] justinh: who's a modern day Big Bopper & Buddy Holly? We need Ant & Dec to start flying with them
[15:25:52] gbee: which decade is it set in now anyway? The 80s?
[15:26:01] justinh: still the 60s I think
[15:26:13] justinh: which works, cos it's all in slow motion
[15:26:19] gbee: after 15 years it's still the 60s?
[15:26:31] justinh: think so
[15:26:43] jduggan: lol
[15:26:58] aBs0lut30: is there any way to set the parental control level on a whole folder?
[15:26:59] justinh: yup. still the 60s
[15:27:07] gbee: 18 years even
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[15:28:58] wagnerrp: aBs0lut30: "update videometadata set <whatever> where file like '<absolute folder path>%'"
[15:29:12] BassKozz: Just got my HDHomeRun, and I can't detect it on my XP VM :-(
[15:29:14] aBs0lut30: cool
[15:29:25] wagnerrp: im not sure what the column name is
[15:29:35] wagnerrp: and you have to end the line with a semicolon
[15:29:55] wagnerrp: and you should probably back up your database lest you break something
[15:30:03] aBs0lut30: would still be cool to have a way to do it at the folder level though, that way any new files you drop in would automaticly pickup the settings...
[15:30:17] justinh: you should probably never advise anybody to mash their own database
[15:30:19] aBs0lut30: guess I could setup a trigger though... hummm....
[15:30:27] justinh: said the kettle to the pot
[15:31:29] wagnerrp: justinh: hopefully anyone who recognized that as sql code has some sense to be cautious when messing with the database
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[15:32:17] aBs0lut30: so would it be bad to add a drop mythconverg; to the end of that line??
[15:32:18] loki_666_: i'm experiencing slowdown when retrieving program info when watching liveTV
[15:32:25] loki_666_: any idea? mysql maintenance?
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[15:32:47] wagnerrp: aBs0lut30: certainly not... assuming you just made a backup!
[15:32:54] aBs0lut30: ROFL
[15:33:27] aBs0lut30: ahhh backups are for wimps! ;)
[15:33:51] wagnerrp: seems the column is 'showlevel', and its 'filename', not 'file'
[15:34:00] BassKozz: aBs0lut30, backups are for people who are lazy :P
[15:34:30] aBs0lut30: which is why i didnt think twice before updating my kernel last night and spent the next two hours trying to figure out why everything broke and then recompiling drivers and crap...
[15:34:36] aBs0lut30: cool thanks wag...
[15:35:00] wagnerrp: BassKozz: my guess is that whatever you are using for this 'XP VM' does not properly translate broadcast packets
[15:35:08] aBs0lut30: think i may try and setup a trigger on that field too... which raises a good question, does mySql even support triggers??
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[15:35:14] wagnerrp: autodiscovery on the HDHR works through broadcast
[15:35:23] BassKozz: wagnerrp, yeah, my guess aswell...
[15:35:38] BassKozz: Maybe I'll try VMware Workstation instead of VirtualBox
[15:35:46] wagnerrp: just grab the command line tool from silicondust, build, and try it
[15:35:56] wagnerrp: or dont bother, and just connect to it with mythtv
[15:36:12] BassKozz: I can go to the HDHR's IP in my VM browser thou
[15:36:18] BassKozz: I need to update the FW
[15:36:24] BassKozz: It's really old April 08
[15:36:30] wagnerrp: so use the linux command line tool
[15:37:09] BassKozz: BassKozz's Brain hurts, now I gotta learn more commands, I am much happier in a GUI world :p
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[15:37:43] wagnerrp: 'hdhomerun_config <id> upgrade <new firmware>
[15:38:56] BassKozz: There are two different downloads: libhdhomerun_20081231.tgz & hdhomerun_config_gui_20081231.tgz
[15:39:01] BassKozz: I assume use the non-gui one?
[15:39:07] wagnerrp: ive only ever used libhdhomerun
[15:39:10] BassKozz: ok
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[15:52:08] BassKozz: nice, FW updated :-D
[15:52:09] BassKozz: Thanks wagnerrp
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[16:01:00] BassKozz: Now the XP gui works in my VM, must have been the old FW... Geez it sure does take a long time to scan for channels :-P
[16:01:25] BassKozz: I am testing it in XP VM for now, and I am installing MythTV on another rig as we speak.
[16:05:14] joe2371: Do I need to manually add privilege grants for each frontend to the mysql database on the backend? I'm getting "Host ... not allowed to connect to this server" and "Cannot login to database" errors.
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[16:09:21] joe2371: I believe my firewall configuration and hosts.allow are correct. I have tried running mythfrontend from my laptop both with my normal user account, and as the mythtv user. Would UPnP help me here if I opened the appropriate ports?
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[16:31:37] wagnerrp: upnp only exists for autoconfiguration of login data
[16:32:21] wagnerrp: all frontends and backends must be given mysql access, however you can use wildcards to give it to whole blocks of IPs, rather than each individual machine
[16:32:46] wagnerrp: make sure mysql is set up to listen on the network interface
[16:32:46] joe2371: I have found what I missed in section 6.2 of the docs.
[16:34:21] joe2371: Joy! *fanfare* *angels-singing* (etc.)
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[16:40:42] joe2371: Well, I now have one of the newer (QAM-capable) HVR-1600 PCI cards working like a charm. I wonder, though, whether I am likely to overtax the PCI bus if I put a couple more of them in the server. Would PCI-Express be a better buy?
[16:41:29] wagnerrp: QAM tuners will use AT MOST ~38mbps
[16:41:56] wagnerrp: compare that with the theoretical throughput of 1066mbps for the PCI bus
[16:46:25] justinh: 1.066Mb/sec?!
[16:46:33] justinh: ;)
[16:47:17] wagnerrp: of course at THOSE speeds, you could only record european TV
[16:47:36] joe2371: He clearly said 1066 milibits per second. So about 1 bit per second. ;-)
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[16:47:48] justinh: pfft
[16:48:02] justinh: fwiw NTSC was always lower res than euro tv
[16:48:16] justinh: and it still shows :)
[16:48:34] justinh: Daily Show looks like crap compared to PAL SDTV
[16:48:36] wagnerrp: perhaps, but we dont run our digital tv at 300kbps.... :P
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[16:48:57] wagnerrp: well... unless you get your tv through AT&T of course
[16:48:58] justinh: the channels I watch are much more than that, even on average
[16:49:07] BassKozz: Correction from earlier, the HDHomeRun Gui for XP doesn't work in VirtualBox but does however work in VMware Workstation, so it might not have been the FW causing the issue. I guess HDHomeRun doesn't like how VirtualBox handles the networking adapter. Oh well, no biggie, mythTV almost installed on my rig. ;-)
[16:49:30] justinh: oh silly doggy. ate a random chicken bone he found & now he's been sick
[16:49:54] justinh: he's always picking up random crap
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[16:55:18] joe2371: I guess my PCI vs. PCI-Express question really only matters if, as I add more capture cards and have more data flowing through the backend, were I then to decide to upgrade to a quad core to improve my ability to transcode all that content, having PCI-Express capture cards would allow me to also consider legacy free models when shopping for a new motherboard.
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[16:55:58] wagnerrp: we still have boards with PS/2 keyboards and mice
[16:56:03] wagnerrp: PCI isnt going away for a long time
[16:56:18] wagnerrp: and LPT ports!
[16:56:20] sid3windr: isnt it?!
[16:56:20] joe2371: The frontends can participate in the transcoding also, right?
[16:56:33] sid3windr: if you put a backend on them
[16:56:38] wagnerrp: my latest box doesnt have a serial port, but there are still serial headers on the board
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[16:57:12] wagnerrp: joe2371: if you want, you can run 'mythjobqueue' to get jobs on a machine without all the library overhead of the backend
[16:57:50] sid3windr: o_O
[16:58:08] J-e-f-f-A: my latest mb has headers for a single serial port and parallel port, but neiter on the backplane. (that's ok though, it's gonna be a frontend...)
[16:58:19] wagnerrp: of course the frontend is going to be carrying a number of those libraries anyway
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[16:59:12] wagnerrp: i dont understand the point of even having the headers if they arent going to get you a slot bracket to use them
[16:59:46] clever: wagnerrp: you could put a ir receiver directly on the header without using a db9 connector
[17:00:31] clever: by connecting it internaly you can mount it in a hole on the front panel and not have a db9 sticking out of the back 24/7
[17:00:50] joe2371: sounds good. Does mythtv then do something sensible about copying the source file to the frontend (running mythjobqueue) before transcoding? I imagine transcoding files on a network filesystem would have significant overhead.
[17:01:15] wagnerrp: all files are streamed, there is no caching mechanism in mythtv
[17:01:39] joe2371: I guess I'll be glad I have a gigabit wired LAN, then. :-/
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[17:03:36] jroysdon: Is there a way to create read-only front-ends, that can see tv listings, schedules, and recordings, but not modify it? Possibly creating a read-only mysql user?
[17:05:12] joe2371: I understand it is possible to change the playback speed. Can this be used simultaneously with commercial skip to allow watching reduced speed LiveTV without commercials?
[17:05:55] justinh: nope
[17:06:12] justinh: because the scheduling is all done over the myth protocol AFAIK
[17:06:13] ** iamlindoro_ wonders why one would want to make liveTV *longer* **
[17:07:02] justinh: iamlindoro: people who are a bit 'slow' ?
[17:07:23] sid3windr: because you want to stay in realtime with your irc buddies
[17:07:25] sid3windr: or neighbours
[17:07:28] joe2371: heh. I've got a user who insists on watching LiveTV. I'm just wondering if that means she must also then be forced to watch commercials.
[17:07:30] sid3windr: but don't want to watch commercials =)
[17:07:51] justinh: I don't watch commercials. I just skip them when I watch the pre-recording :)
[17:07:59] justinh: at a time that suits me
[17:08:10] justinh: not when Mr MAN says I should watch them
[17:08:39] iamlindoro_: but to answer your question, yes, if she chooses to watch LiveTV, she gets to be a pod person and watch commercials too
[17:09:21] justinh: HDD space is cheaper now than it ever was. the argument for 'needing' live tv lessens every day
[17:09:23] joe2371: Well, take, for instance, the example of sporting events. Some folks insist on watching them live, for whatever reason. Perhaps they don't want their buddies calling to discus the outcome of the game before they have seen it themselves.
[17:09:43] justinh: other than for testing tuners, and you can arguably get by just scheduling test recordings
[17:10:10] iamlindoro_: in the US, starting something 16 minutes late for every hour of TV, generally speaking, will allow you to skip commercials with the skip button and catch up at the end
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[17:10:27] iamlindoro_: for sports, if you watch live and want to be "in the moment," you've got to suck it up and watch commercials
[17:10:27] justinh: so you schedule the show to record, and watch it a couple of minutes behind :)
[17:10:45] jroysdon: joe2371, just tell her to watch her shows 10 or 15 minutes after they start (but have them scheduled recordings). Then she can watch it as it records and zap all the commercials, and end at the same time the show is over, but have saved 10–15 minutes that they could be doing something else.
[17:10:55] J-e-f-f-A: justinh: I used livetv extensively to test and refine channel-changing scripts... but i suppose the same could be done from a command line with a tv or monitor connected to the STB...
[17:11:03] justinh: not everything I watch is from yesterday, or even an hour ago
[17:11:34] justinh: get with the programme folks :)
[17:11:43] joe2371: jroysdon: could be. Though getting her to change her behavior in any way is a bit like trying to herd a cat.
[17:11:50] justinh: you'll catch on sooner or later
[17:11:53] justinh: preferably sooner
[17:12:08] justinh: if people were scared of progress there wouldn't even BE any TV
[17:12:25] clever: i sometimes start watching a recording ~15mins after it started to actualy record
[17:12:25] clever: which leaves enough of a gap that i can skip most comercials
[17:12:27] jroysdon: joe2371, just do as Justin said, start watching a show and hit record, then go do something for 10–15 minutes (check email or something) come back, and, there ya go.
[17:13:25] jroysdon: joe2371, just tell her she's throwing away 15 minutes each hour that should could be doing something else
[17:13:42] jroysdon: (of course, there are plenty of mindless drones that just want to do that)
[17:13:53] justinh: I make my wife watch her stories at 1.3 or 1.5x realtime :)
[17:14:06] jroysdon: lol
[17:14:28] justinh: she did figure out how to disable it per viewing, but she soon tired of that
[17:14:40] jroysdon: Hey, anyone know of a way to make a frontend not be able to change scheduling or delete shows (basically make it read-only)?
[17:14:46] jroysdon: justinh, heh
[17:14:54] justinh: jroysdon: there is no way to do that
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[17:15:06] BassKozz: Anyone know how many HDPVR's (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html) the USB bus on a standard system can handle? I was thinking of building a rig with 4 of these ;-)
[17:15:08] justinh: see the google SoC project (abandoned) for 'multi user myth'
[17:15:16] clever: other then patching the code yourself
[17:15:38] BassKozz: Also HDPVR won't be supported until .22, right?
[17:15:47] joe2371: How about, instead, one detects commercials in live tv and switches to a pre-recorded program at greater than 1x speed for the duration. Might one then be able to watch two shows at once, one of them live?
[17:15:53] J-e-f-f-A: BassKozz: You could also throw in a PCI USB2 card...
[17:15:57] jroysdon: justinh, yeah, multi-user would be nice too. How does a frontend interact with a backend? Purely through mysql and then telling the backend to stream a show? Or does it send delete/schedule commands via the backend which then does the mysql changes?
[17:16:06] justinh: jroysdon: myth protocol
[17:16:22] justinh: and the backend deals with the database for programming stuff AFAIK
[17:16:37] justinh: I might be wrong
[17:16:40] jroysdon: joe2371, sure, that's what I used to do before I trained myself not to watch livetv
[17:16:49] sid3windr: I was wondering if the commercial flagging worked for Belgium, I saw on mythweb that it actually flagged one. Currently on holiday so will see when I get back :P
[17:16:58] justinh: but even so, making mysql read only could be tricky for just one box
[17:17:15] clever: justinh: some parts of the frontend still use mysql but i think things are slowly moving towards the myth proto
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[17:17:55] BassKozz: J-e-f-f-A, so are you saying that a standard USB bus can't/won't handle 4 HDPVR's?
[17:18:05] gbee: most parts of the frontend hit mysql in some way
[17:18:06] justinh: BassKozz: in theory it should cope fine if it's USB2
[17:18:07] jroysdon: joe2371, but the problem I found (watching two shows at once, switching during the commercials to the other show which was buffered on a Direct Tivo dual-tuner system) with watching two shows at once is that I end up watching way more tv than I should (as once the main show is done, I would switch to a 3rd show when the original secondary show is on commercials)
[17:18:17] gbee: s/mysql/the database/
[17:18:27] NeoMatrixJR: i need help getting my audio settings to mesh up properly. frontend console: Mixer unable to find control PCM.
[17:18:34] jroysdon: gbee, I'm just wondering if I created a read-only database user, how the frontend would deal with that
[17:18:39] justinh: gbee: point is, scheduling & stuff is done by the backend I think. correct me if I'm wrong
[17:18:56] jroysdon: (in other words, if someone tries to do a delete of a show or add/change a scheduled show)
[17:19:18] justinh: jroysdon: wouldn't it be much easier to disable the EPG etc on one frontend by removing the menu entries?
[17:19:27] clever: when you try to delete a recording, you send a msg to the master backend
[17:19:29] J-e-f-f-A: BassKozz: I don't know for sure — but if it doesn't, you can always add a PCI USB card, that's what I was saying. Hauppauge would probably be the best folks to ask...
[17:19:30] BassKozz: justinh, thanx
[17:19:35] justinh: but then you couldn't stop them deleting shows & stuff
[17:19:45] BassKozz: J-e-f-f-A, thx
[17:19:50] jroysdon: justinh, I tried doing that, but you can still hit some buttons to get to the schedule, etc.
[17:19:59] clever: and the mbe does the actual deleting
[17:20:12] jroysdon: Plus, I don't mind someone seeing the schedule, I just don't want them to add shows and cause conflicts or program it "wrong"
[17:20:14] justinh: IIRC Max bitrate of the HDPVR is 25Mbits/sec. 4x 25 == close to the bone on USB2 innit
[17:20:17] sid3windr: clever: stuff moving to the myth proto? that's cool...
[17:20:23] gbee: setting watched flags, auto-expire etc all involve direct writes to the db
[17:20:24] sid3windr: clever: do you know of changes in that area in .22 then?
[17:20:24] jroysdon: (thinking of kids in this case, or guests)
[17:20:26] justinh: jroysdon: then you need to get busy with multi-user mythtv
[17:20:36] justinh: cos otherwise there's NO way to do it
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[17:20:44] jroysdon: justinh, I really think mythtv needs a multi-user mindset... I agree
[17:20:44] clever: sid3windr: i just thought that some of the devs where avoiding adding more sql to the frontend
[17:20:49] justinh: or put up a bounty & pay some dude
[17:21:04] justinh: we know, but nobody else has the inclination :)
[17:21:04] jroysdon: justinh, I may, just seeing how some other business ventures work out
[17:21:08] sid3windr: clever: it's pretty ****** that it's there in the first place, so I'd love that ;)
[17:21:16] joe2371: Would intermittent inability to get a lock on QAM be a sign that I need to upgrade my cabling and/or splitters?
[17:21:31] gbee: sid3windr: what the direct DB access, or mysql?
[17:21:47] jroysdon: Any idea what such a bounty would cost to develop or update the SoC project?
[17:21:56] BassKozz: USB 2.0: 480 Mbit/s
[17:21:57] gbee: nothing is really changing about that for 0.22, it's not that we don't want to, but it's not a priority for the next release
[17:22:18] BassKozz: so 25x4=100, less then 1/4th
[17:22:19] justinh: jroysdon: $manhours * hourly fee == cost
[17:22:35] justinh: BassKozz: protocol overheads on top of that
[17:22:41] justinh: and in USB there are a lot
[17:22:45] jroysdon: A-yuh, I know, but no idea of what the man hours would be, nor the expected hourly rate.
[17:22:52] justinh: jroysdon: a lot
[17:23:05] justinh: and I don't get out of bed for less than $50 an hour. not that I could do it
[17:23:06] jroysdon: We talking 2 weeks, 2 months, and $50/hr, $100/hr, $150/hr?
[17:23:19] gbee: jroysdon: depends whether someone wants to work on it anyway, I don't think you'd want to pay what it would really cost
[17:23:20] J-e-f-f-A: USB3 will fix that... 5Gb/sec...  ;-)
[17:23:32] justinh: jroysdon: in theory it's not all that complex but there'd be a hell of a lot of code to meddle with
[17:23:42] justinh: like every aspect you want to be able to add privileges to
[17:23:58] jroysdon: Right, or perhaps just a front-end change/limitation
[17:24:05] jroysdon: (depending on how much you wanted to change it)
[17:24:11] justinh: you could hack stuff out yourself & rebuild it
[17:24:23] justinh: make it impotent :)
[17:24:33] jroysdon: That is, if you wanted it truly multi-user fron each front-end, or if you were fine with just having read-only access and read-write frontends
[17:24:43] justinh: that'd be far quicker but obviously way less flexible
[17:25:02] jroysdon: justinh, right, but it would get the ball rolling, at least for what I want to do
[17:25:19] justinh: it'd be almost as much work even to add a runtime flag as it'd be to add full multi-user priv stuff
[17:25:20] jroysdon: Anyone know of folks doing custom installs for people as a side-job?
[17:25:33] ** jroysdon nods **
[17:25:41] ** J-e-f-f-A sighs... it's time to snow-blow/shovel snow... **
[17:25:58] BassKozz: J-e-f-f-A, yup me too, (MA)
[17:26:12] justinh: jroysdon: there's a good reason the SoC project was green lighted.. and that's cos it'd be nice for us all to have
[17:26:13] jroysdon: I know about a dozen folks that love my system, but are not technical enough to do it themselves or maintain it (shoot, that's really true for most home PC users anyway)
[17:26:35] justinh: maintenance of mythtv? less work than keeping Windows on its feet
[17:26:46] J-e-f-f-A: BassKozz: Yep, Marlborough here...  ;-)
[17:26:54] jroysdon: Right, maintenance is easy enough, just make sure it backs up and off-box
[17:26:58] gbee: I've thought about multi-user as a project once mythui is behind me
[17:27:10] jroysdon: So I was thinking of a 2–4 hour turn-key system for folks
[17:27:15] justinh: gbee: assuming you ever get that monkey off your back ;)
[17:27:39] gbee: could be tough, I saw him with a tube of superglue earlier
[17:27:54] jroysdon: Most of the folks I know love their DVRs, but hate that the platforms are closed.
[17:28:01] NeoMatrixJR: !pcm
[17:28:10] NeoMatrixJR: !mixer
[17:28:12] jroysdon: One guy was telling me about when his cable dvr died and they just gave him a new one and he lost all his shows, etc.
[17:28:14] justinh: I had a look at the mythuibuttonlist code again, and my brain melted. I need to ease in slowly
[17:28:14] NeoMatrixJR: ...no bot?
[17:28:29] jroysdon: Anyway, all sorts of reasons why mythtv would be great for folks who like dvrs
[17:28:38] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: just ask. we have real people here, and for answers a bot could give you there's google & mythtv's wiki
[17:29:05] ** jroysdon is just curious if anyone has ever done or thought about doing that sort of custom mythtv work for others **
[17:29:26] jroysdon: (don't quit your day job or anything, but still, extra money, plus it's really cool for less-technical folks to have a mythtv box)
[17:29:34] NeoMatrixJR: I'm getting " Mixer unable to find control PCM." in the console for mythfrontend, but I know volume control is alsa pcm
[17:29:45] ** justinh does everything for fun. and Blue Peter badges **
[17:30:34] justinh: and if I could code, I think I would quit my day job. it sucks
[17:30:49] gbee: hey I'm changing my perspective on bountys/tips etc these days
[17:31:04] jroysdon: Problem is I don't want to "work" when I'm not getting paid
[17:31:22] justinh: jroysdon: when it stops being fun it IS work ;)
[17:31:24] jroysdon: So I don't do "work" stuff like fixing PCs and user support w/o reimbursement
[17:31:40] jroysdon: justinh, just about everything I do at my day job is fun for me
[17:31:44] justinh: like maintaining themes you fell out of love with ages ago
[17:31:51] jroysdon: I love Cisco/networking stuff, I breath it
[17:31:56] jroysdon: justinh, heh
[17:32:17] justinh: gbee: part of me feels bad for disowning themes people gave me donations for.. and then I think that was then, and this is now
[17:32:19] jroysdon: But here is a perfect example of why I'd want the read-only system:
[17:32:21] gbee: plenty of people make a little extra money from their hobbies, so why not?
[17:33:04] jroysdon: gbee, I'm thinking I couldn't charge more than $200 or so, as they'd need to get a tuner card for $150 or whatever, and right there is pushing it for most average folks
[17:33:34] gbee: justinh: having put a 'donate' button on metallurgy page, I can count the donations I received on one hand
[17:33:37] jroysdon: I'm totally fine with pointing technical folks right to mythtv to do it themselves, it's just that most are too lazy or never get around to it
[17:33:49] ** jroysdon donates **
[17:33:57] justinh: gbee: but you weren't a publicity whore like I was :P
[17:34:22] justinh: was/am
[17:34:54] gbee: true ;) didn't pay for the JD consumed in one night at LRL :p
[17:34:57] sid3windr: gbee: the direct db access I meant (sorry for delay in reply ;)
[17:34:58] justinh: I loved the good attention but couldnt live with the negatives. so now I have neither
[17:35:00] jroysdon: The place I'm at now (day job), I was showing off my mythtv stuff to my boss (director) who was jazzed and wanted me to show his boss (cio) and next thing I know, he's like, "could we use this for replacing our windows media streaming servers" (I'm not sure what the real name of the windows servers are)
[17:35:24] jroysdon: That, and they wanted to be able to have remote-control access for all their fire stations to watch training stuff that they record, but be able to get to anything
[17:35:45] justinh: jroysdon: so that's easy. mythvideo :)
[17:35:45] jroysdon: (they've got gb fiber to all the fire stations)
[17:35:49] gbee: sid3windr: no really changes being made on that issue right now, it's on the long term plan but may not happen for a while yet
[17:35:50] justinh: read-only shares
[17:36:03] jroysdon: justin, ok, but does mythvideo have the remote control working?
[17:36:08] justinh: yeah
[17:36:15] justinh: like every mythtv plugin
[17:36:21] sid3windr: gbee: okay :) I think it's way better to have it all over the protocol, but I don't have any time/clue to cook up patches or what not, however the direct db access for all clients is a bit weird :)
[17:36:23] jroysdon: that's what is used for video files that you dump on the disk, right?
[17:36:29] justinh: every true plugin I mean, discounting mythweb which is more a web frontend
[17:36:32] sid3windr: gbee: but I'm happy with the stuff running as it is so I don't complain ;)
[17:36:42] justinh: jroysdon: yes, and optical media
[17:37:05] jroysdon: justinh, so I could use a frontend with all the menus to "record" a training session, then archive it and have custom frontends with just mythvideo to play it, right?
[17:37:10] gbee: and optical media dumped onto disk
[17:37:17] justinh: yup
[17:37:29] jroysdon: gbee, right, I just don't know all the "mythtv" words for stuff (I've used it for the last 3 years)
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[17:37:54] justinh: my frontend has NO write access to any media shares
[17:37:55] jroysdon: Mythdora 4 made it so easy to setup, I just spent 2 hours or so, and that was it, and never had to learn all the back-end stuff of how it works
[17:38:11] justinh: I can delete recordings, but not videos, music or picturs
[17:38:12] jroysdon: justinh, you mean you took it off the menus?
[17:38:16] jroysdon: ah, gotcha
[17:38:17] justinh: no
[17:38:35] jroysdon: You can't delete from mythvideo anyway, right, you have to go into the mythvideo manage recordings
[17:38:46] jroysdon: (same with music), right?
[17:39:06] justinh: mythvideo video manager
[17:39:11] BassKozz: J-e-f-f-A, West Roxbury here... ;-), time to go back out a finish
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[17:39:20] justinh: and the rub there is, the frontend would need write access to do it
[17:39:21] jroysdon: Right, so w/o mythvideo video manager, you have no edit access
[17:39:31] jroysdon: (ah, as it deletes it right from the disk anyway)
[17:39:43] justinh: no, with video manager, if you don't have write access there are no deletes
[17:39:51] jroysdon: Ah, gotcha
[17:40:06] justinh: that's likely gonna change though, with storage groups marching toward mythvideo & mythmusic & the rest...
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[17:40:16] jroysdon: Right
[17:40:42] jroysdon: Ok, time to get this project in gear then. I gotta get some tuner cards (my employer's cio wanted a parts list, but I wasn't ready 2 weeks ago)
[17:40:46] justinh: but as of now.. if your frontend has no write access to the mythvideo share(s), it can't delete anything
[17:41:42] jroysdon: I'd asked what sort of cards were good to use, and I got a number of answers. I just need the best happaung (sp) card that has an analog tuner but is still shipping, or a dual analog/digital tuner card
[17:42:06] jroysdon: Problem I ran into was that so many were not still shipping that I knew about, or folks were saying this card sucks or whatever.
[17:42:25] justinh: plenty on Ebay :)
[17:42:41] jroysdon: ugh, no, you cannot tell a government purchasing agency to go on ebay
[17:42:45] justinh: lol
[17:42:54] jroysdon: I need two dozen cards in new condition
[17:42:58] jroysdon: (to start with)
[17:43:42] jroysdon: They'll want to be able to record at any station, but they've got a million "old" PCs which could all be BEs just fine
[17:44:20] justinh: bear in mind you'd need to move recorded material into mythvideo before it becomes 'undeletable' though
[17:44:22] jroysdon: hvr1600 was recommended, but then someone blasted it (it didn't do some mode or something). Is it well-supported with mythtv (as in, just works)?
[17:44:42] Josh_Borke: jroysdon: the hvr1600 doesn't ship anymore, i thought
[17:44:45] justinh: if the linux drivers do what they say they'll do on the tin.. then it'll work
[17:44:46] jroysdon: justinh, yup, I won't even give them the watch recorded menu
[17:45:00] jroysdon: Josh_Borke, http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1600.html has a buy now link
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[17:45:41] jroysdon: I think I'll just buy one on my own, test it out, and then next week hopefully be able to recommend it
[17:46:27] joe2371: I have just installed an hvr1600 without too much trouble. The cx18 drivers in 2.6.28 seem pretty stable.
[17:47:06] jroysdon: (I'm already getting paid working here no matter what, so this is just a "good for the customer" thing, and it's good for the CIO's group supporting the fire dept who isn't happy with their current media solutions)
[17:47:46] jroysdon: Of course, it's too bad it's too political and all the IP issues, otherwise each firehouse could have a full-blown mythtv box connected to their bigscreens. I'm sure they'd love that
[17:48:04] jroysdon: (but no way, lawsuits just waiting to happen there, I'm sure)
[17:49:32] gbee: there are mythtv setups in schools and universities etc all over the place. Think we heard about one being setup in a hospital for patients too
[17:49:41] jroysdon: The hvr1600 can only record one show at a time, right? Either analog or digial, but not one of both at the same time, right?
[17:50:40] jroysdon: gbee, I think it'd be awesome, but it seems to me it would be a bomb waiting to go off... for personal use, a DVR everywhere is fine, but for a shared group like that, seems like trouble (unless you pay for media licensing that allows you to show any video, etc. all you want, which perhaps those places already have)
[17:50:59] jroysdon: I know my church has to kick out the bucks for a license like that, so they can show VeggieTales and stuff w/o being sued
[17:51:14] jroysdon: They still have to buy the DVDs, but the license is required for "public showings" or whatever
[17:52:07] jroysdon: I'll have to run it by their legal... it could be a cool thing for them to have in their gym as they have tvs droning in there... much better to have shows worth watching on
[17:52:40] jroysdon: If the hvr1600 was getting EOL, what is the replacement card to move "up" to?
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[17:54:12] jroysdon: Anyone messed with the Hauppauge "Wireless MediaMVP"?
[17:54:34] gumpert345: hi im using mythtv trunk right now, and i saw a menu: http://www.mythtv.org/w/images/e/e8/Mythui_buttonlist1.png is this just an example or an existing theme? where can I get it?
[17:54:54] jroysdon: Seems like it would be the perfect set-top solution for playing back media from a mythtv BE "cheaply" (the wired one is just $99)
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[17:55:37] iamlindoro_: gumpert345: That was a demo of certain attributes now possible with mythUI, but the border/tyle/etc. are metallurgy
[17:55:50] iamlindoro_: http://miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy.html
[17:55:50] jroysdon: How is mythtv hvr1800 support? It is cheaper by $10, and boasts that it is a dual-tuner card
[17:56:06] iamlindoro_: jroysdon: Digital will work in Myth with the 1800, analog will not
[17:56:20] jroysdon: ah.. odd
[17:56:32] jroysdon: oh, it's cheaper as it doesn't come with a remote nor blaster
[17:57:06] jroysdon: Is the analog part never going to work, or just not figured out yet?
[17:57:44] iamlindoro_: It'll work when someone writes code for it to work
[17:57:53] jroysdon: Ah, ok. So down the road it might be a good card
[17:58:10] jroysdon: (I'm just thinking for my own personal use there, as I have a dual-tuner pvr500 for now, but wanted to add digital)
[17:58:12] iamlindoro_: yes. Someone is looking at the issue, but he's very busy so it may be a bit
[17:58:26] Josh_Borke: jroysdon: the analog side works in linux but support needs to be written in to myth for it
[17:58:28] jroysdon: yup, no rush, I don't have an OTA setup anyway (yet)
[17:58:38] jroysdon: Josh_Borke, ah, I see, ok, so it's just a matter of time
[17:59:12] iamlindoro_: Death is only a matter of time. Support for a card is a matter of someone with the skills and time to do it doing so :)
[17:59:23] jroysdon: Yup, or just money ;-p
[17:59:41] jroysdon: How about the hvr1250? I don't see a price for the card on the site, but it looks scaled down (so possibly cheaper)
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[17:59:57] iamlindoro_: 1250 works fine, but is only really useful for digital
[18:00:06] iamlindoro_: as the analog side is a foul framegrabber
[18:00:38] jroysdon: ah, ok, so the 1600 seems like the best solution for now for analog and digital
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[18:01:05] iamlindoro_: right. If you want analog hardware encoding, and digital, in a dual tuner package, both of which work in myth, it's the only game in town
[18:01:08] Josh_Borke: the 1600 is a hybrid tuner in that you can only record analog or digital, not both at the same time, correct?
[18:01:12] iamlindoro_: no
[18:01:17] Josh_Borke: it is a dual tuner?
[18:01:20] iamlindoro_: yes
[18:01:26] jroysdon: I didn't think it was a dual tuner
[18:01:29] iamlindoro_: and yet it is
[18:01:34] jroysdon: (just from reading it). ok, well cool!
[18:02:00] Josh_Borke: iamlindoro_: including the newer models that only include 1 RF input for the tuner?
[18:02:11] ** iamlindoro_ sighs **
[18:02:29] Josh_Borke: i've looked and it is hard for me to find exact information on it
[18:02:31] jroysdon: (right, this http://registration.hauppauge.com/webstore/Pr . . . isID=2163800
[18:02:46] jroysdon: err: it says it has two onboard tuners: http://registration.hauppauge.com/webstore/Pr . . . isID=2163800
[18:02:57] iamlindoro_: Yes
[18:03:11] jroysdon: (so you can do one digital and one analog at the same time, but not two of either)
[18:03:21] iamlindoro_: correct
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[18:03:42] iamlindoro_: If you wanted two of either, you'd use an HVR-2250, which does not yet have linux support
[18:04:10] jroysdon: Ah, ok, or just buy two hvr1600s, right?
[18:04:23] iamlindoro_: yep
[18:04:43] joe2371: I find I seem to be unable to get a lock on QAM channels that were working yesterday. Is this likely due to fluctuations in signal strength/quality? Or would doing a fresh channel scan be likely to help at all?
[18:04:48] jroysdon: I wish hauppaunge would open up the specs and such for their MediaMVP. It'd be a cool set-top solution if one could get myth frontend on it: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_mediamvp.html
[18:05:07] jroysdon: (but it as it is, the mediamvp requires an application to run on a server to serve content)
[18:05:16] joe2371: I think the problem is not so much with Hauppauge, but rather with Conexant.
[18:05:21] Josh_Borke: iamlindoro_: thank you for your answers
[18:05:27] iamlindoro_: Josh_Borke: np
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[18:06:13] iamlindoro_: jroysdon: Standard Def's day is done-- small/quiet/efficient STBs with hardware accel of content, with myth frontends, will be possible with nVidia's ION in the next couple months
[18:06:42] iamlindoro_: IMO it's a bit late in the game to be buying hardware that can only barely manage SD
[18:07:01] jroysdon: Ah, ok, it just does SD, gotcha
[18:07:32] jroysdon: (heh, my "tv" is a 22 in flat panel that came with my hp, I'm not a big tv/media guy)
[18:07:57] jroysdon: Spending >$300 on a TV still blows my mind ;-)
[18:08:12] iamlindoro_: Heh :)
[18:08:33] NeoMatrixJR: can anyone help me properly configure alsa/pulse/mythtv?
[18:08:55] iamlindoro_: I'll not say what I've likely spent on my tMythboxes/cabling/renovation/projector/TVs, but it reminds me I *really* need to get homeowner's insurance
[18:09:17] Dubstar_04: could anyone help in the dev channel?
[18:09:36] joe2371: iamlindoro_: until you get your new policy, you are welcome to store all your valuable electronics at my home. ;-)
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[18:09:47] iamlindoro_: joe2371: Heh, I'll manage ;)
[18:10:06] jroysdon: iamlindoro_, yup, which is why I don't have a policy to cover more than $5K of gadget stuff in my house
[18:10:24] jroysdon: I doubt all my laptops and such are worth that, but it'd take that to replace them
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[18:11:39] ** dustybin enters iamlindoro_ backdoor and starts unscrewing the projector **
[18:11:50] iamlindoro_: you stay away from my back door
[18:11:54] dustybin: :P
[18:11:56] BassKozz_ is now known as BassKozz
[18:12:02] iamlindoro_: My dog will hurt you. Badly.
[18:12:07] dustybin: :O
[18:12:19] BassKozz: J-e-f-f-A, you done shoveling yet?
[18:12:24] iamlindoro_: And will get delicious treats for doing so
[18:12:25] BassKozz: I just got finished, I am beat
[18:14:06] BassKozz: iamlindoro, what kinda treats you feedin him?
[18:14:13] BassKozz: I hope none that contain peanut butter
[18:14:17] jroysdon: Man, I feel for you snow-livin' folks. I don't need a coat to go out, it's a nice day and going to hit 58F today ;-)
[18:14:25] wagnerrp: BassKozz: dustybin giblets
[18:14:28] iamlindoro_: BassKozz: trespassing limeys
[18:15:00] BassKozz: ummm, tasty
[18:21:35] Penfold (Penfold!n=mikewh@alysande.altrion.org) has joined #mythtv-users
[18:22:15] aBs0lut30: I believe I am going to hold a contest, the winner gets to pay all my damn bills for the next six months, anyone wanting to enter, email your name SSN and credit card into to me :)
[18:23:45] BassKozz: aBs0lut30, is there a prize for 1st entry?
[18:24:11] aBs0lut30: yup, they get to pay my bills for 6 months :D
[18:25:54] aBs0lut30: personaly I think its a great honor for whoever wins, but thats just me
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[18:28:24] aBs0lut30: hey, anybody seen the new underworld movie yet?
[18:28:38] jroysdon: What was the model of the dual-tuner pvr500? Was it a hvr1500?
[18:30:01] directhex: the pvr500 IS dual tuner
[18:30:03] justinh: the pvr500
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[18:38:25] Quantumstate: I notice that since ~trunk 19500 that Recording|<rightarrow> no longer takes me to Job Options. Is there a new way?
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[18:42:02] justinh: Quantumstate: INFO key
[18:42:15] justinh: do you not read the -commit list?
[18:42:23] GreyFoxx: hehe
[18:42:57] justinh: god help me if I get round to that change I'm planning to make INFO not launch the popup menu and put them all on MENU
[18:46:31] justinh: Quantumstate: you're welcome
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[18:50:42] Quantumstate: Well, I've just now been able to try it. Anyway, thanks justinh.
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[18:52:15] jroysdon: Ah, so the pvr500 is the dual-tuner, and has two pvr150 tuners on it?
[18:52:37] J-e-f-f-A: jroysdon: Yes, that's pretty much it.
[18:52:51] jroysdon: Cool. Thanks all for all the Q&A help here
[18:53:04] justinh: my invoice is in the post
[18:53:09] jroysdon: Other than justinh, everyone is nice and friendly (just teasin', justinh)
[18:53:28] jroysdon: Yeah, here's my address: 127 Loopback Ave
[18:53:44] J-e-f-f-A: jroysdon: shows up as two seperate tuners -
[18:53:53] Quantumstate: Does anyone know when support for the R5000 will be merged in? Patch is working great.
[18:54:03] jroysdon: J-e-f-f-A, yup, I get it working again last night, but didn't remember all the numbers
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[18:56:44] justinh: that's another one for the dodgy fork :)
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[18:57:45] jroysdon: LOL
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[19:08:17] BassKozz: Why does the HDHomeRun have an IR receiver?
[19:08:23] BassKozz: Aren't the channels changed via eth?
[19:08:41] poodyp (poodyp!n=poodyp@cpe-76-87-115-2.socal.res.rr.com) has quit ()
[19:09:24] iamlindoro_: the receiver is not for changing channels, it's for controlling a media center app (eg Myth)
[19:09:55] iamlindoro_: then if you tell *myth* to change channels (via IR or whatever) it will change the channels via eth
[19:10:29] BassKozz: ah I see, that makes sense, thanks iamlindoro
[19:11:04] BassKozz: So you could have a mythbox in a different room from your HDHR and you could still change channels on that Mythbox via the HDHR
[19:11:20] BassKozz: nice... now to find AV cables long enough to accomplish that :-P
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[19:29:17] iamlindoro_: Hmm. Sometimes I wonder "how does my implementation of fanart/banners/screenshot compare?" Then I see something like this... and feel fine :) http://www.geektonic.com/2009/01/sagetv-fanar . . . ault-ui.html
[19:29:36] sid3windr: fannart
[19:30:27] justinh: iamlindoro_: some of us have just eaten
[19:30:33] iamlindoro_: justinh: heh
[19:31:19] sid3windr: Yet another great job by a SageTV user.
[19:31:22] sid3windr: :|
[19:31:35] justinh: a user? I thought they had paid developers
[19:31:41] iamlindoro_: They do, and this is
[19:31:57] iamlindoro_: at leat, I thought so
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[19:32:14] oldman: hello
[19:32:30] iamlindoro_: seems sid3windr is absolutely right, though
[19:32:33] iamlindoro_: looks like a hack
[19:32:56] justinh: still, you can't polish a turd
[19:33:02] oldman: will a ATITV Wonder 650 work with Myth ?
[19:33:18] justinh: oldman: will a ATITV Wonder 650 work in linux?
[19:33:46] oldman: i'm askin if it will ? not sure were to go for info
[19:33:57] justinh: linuxtv.org .. in their wiki
[19:34:08] oldman: ok thanks
[19:34:25] oldman: i'm thinkin of changing os
[19:34:38] oldman: but i capture video with that card
[19:35:13] justinh: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCIe_Cards
[19:35:51] justinh: and http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/ATSC_PCI_Cards
[19:36:00] justinh: unsupported in linux by the looks of things
[19:36:06] oldman:
[19:36:50] justinh: plenty of digital tuners are though
[19:36:55] justinh: cheap ones too :)
[19:37:20] oldman: i suppose ... but i'm cheap 2
[19:37:22] oldman:
[19:37:41] iamlindoro_: ugh
[19:37:47] iamlindoro_: Let's keep it in english
[19:37:50] justinh: marklar marklar
[19:38:09] justinh: oldman: serves you right for buying ATI :)
[19:38:10] sid3windr: iamlindoro_: I just copypasted what was said below it ;)
[19:38:20] iamlindoro_: sid3windr: yeah, saw that
[19:38:24] oldman: true dat
[19:38:38] BassKozz: can't polish a turd, but you can get damn close: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBj6PonX14A
[19:39:08] oldman: vista dosn't even support it because of a pissing contest between microsoft and ati
[19:39:21] justinh: ATI don't have many friends do they? ;)
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[19:39:27] BassKozz: Checkout 8mins in
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[19:39:33] oldman: both want only their media center to control it
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[19:41:00] justinh: this isnt the 1st time ATI have ignored driver models
[19:41:25] oldman: i guess they knew that they were being sold to amd
[19:41:37] justinh: poor, poor customers
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[19:41:54] justinh: and now they've stopped making tuners altogether apparently
[19:42:50] GreyFoxx: heh so the US digital switch over is back on for the 17th
[19:43:00] GreyFoxx: that should be a fun few weeks :)
[19:44:00] iamlindoro_: "Hey guys, suddenly my PVR-150 won't get any channels... anyone know what's up?"
[19:44:11] sid3windr: "are you sure your stb is plugged in"
[19:44:16] sid3windr: :>
[19:44:22] justinh: I thought Obama had nixxed it
[19:44:28] laga: i suppose ir blasters will become more expensive
[19:44:33] iamlindoro_: Proposed it, it was struck down by congress
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[19:48:51] joe2371: If my backend will ultimately wind up with four or even more cable inputs, will I probably want to shop for a 4 or 8-way amplified splitter?
[19:49:42] justinh: laga: there'll still be uses for blasters
[19:49:56] laga: justinh: yeah, to control the STB ;)
[19:50:05] Gumby: does anyone if there is (or was) a bug in mythtv where if the backend was trying to delete a recording (possibly from an old livetv viewing) and the recordings was missing (ie: ERROR when trying to delete file: /GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/dvr2/1535_20090127215342.mpg. File doesn't exist) that the backend eventually chewed through all system memory then crashed?
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[19:51:35] sphery: kormoc: If you're looking for a quick ticket to close, pretty sure http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6186 is invalid due to http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/19255 , not to mention http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/19262 .
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[19:52:30] Gumby: I've been having issues with my backend and had a chance this morning to sit down and watch top and logs in realtime and this seemed to be the case. I created the file the backend was trying to delete in my livetv directory and once mythtv was able to delete it the memory usage dropped by about 300mb and stopped climbing
[19:52:41] kormoc: sphery, Yay! Ticket goes poof!
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[20:00:00] poodyp: anybody know why my backend decided to run 4 transcode jobs when it's set to only run 1?
[20:01:11] NeoMatrixJR: anyone know how to keep agpgart from loading?
[20:01:19] thefRont is now known as thefront
[20:01:55] dustybin: anybody know why my backend emits a foul stench?
[20:02:16] poodyp: did something crawl inside it and die?
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[20:04:00] Josh_Borke: dustybin: a rat chewed it's way in and died in its sleep
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[20:10:44] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: module blacklisting :)
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[20:11:54] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: did that
[20:12:38] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: and xorg.conf options "NvAGP" "1"
[20:12:54] justinh: I give up
[20:13:23] NeoMatrixJR: I'm trying to get XvMC to work. My frontend runs (over?) 100% cpu when watching recorded tv or live tv
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[20:14:02] NeoMatrixJR: other suggestions are welcome
[20:14:32] justinh: sounds like xvmc will be of little help
[20:14:52] justinh: try different video playback profiles
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[20:16:29] NeoMatrixJR: that's running "slim"
[20:17:20] justinh: using the closed source nvidia driver?
[20:20:16] NeoMatrixJR: yes, 173.x
[20:20:40] justinh: yup. I give up
[20:21:10] justinh: so, time to crack on syncing my disks so I'm ready for the migration at the weekend
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[20:25:46] NeoMatrixJR: should the frontend really be using 100% (or more...I've seen 115 in top) on a 3ghz hyperthreaded p4?
[20:26:27] justinh: playing what?
[20:26:39] NeoMatrixJR: recorded HDTV
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[20:26:51] justinh: mpeg2?
[20:26:52] wang: quick question
[20:27:02] justinh: wang: too slow, you lose
[20:27:04] NeoMatrixJR: I think it's in mpeg2....
[20:27:13] wang: I want to use mythtv for playback ONLY of divx/xvid files..
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[20:27:31] justinh: wang: go use something else :)
[20:27:34] wang: now, some of the newer HD x264 files are huge
[20:27:43] wang: what's the mininum CPU I need?
[20:27:51] justinh: x264? wooo illegal downloadables
[20:28:11] justinh: wang: too open a question. depends on resolution & bitrate
[20:28:11] wang: justinh: nope.. chinese programs..
[20:28:19] wang: I can't find them in Canada
[20:28:21] GreyFoxx: wang: like a nything it's gonna come down to bitrate/resolution and specific options used when encoding
[20:28:38] wang: 1280x768
[20:28:58] GreyFoxx: My Sempron 2800+ can play all of my HDTV mpeg2 material, but HDTV h264 just kills it
[20:29:00] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: how do I tell what the file's encoded in?
[20:29:17] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: where do you live and how are you getting this 'HD' ?
[20:29:17] GreyFoxx: I use a X2 5200 as my main frontend and it plays anything I've thrown at it so far
[20:29:25] wang: mmm
[20:29:36] wang: okay. I I guess a Duron 900 isn't going to kick it
[20:29:43] GreyFoxx: Not for anything HD
[20:29:43] justinh: BWAWAWAWA
[20:29:49] justinh: barely copes with SDTV
[20:29:55] GreyFoxx: it could do mpeg2/xvid sdtv
[20:30:04] GreyFoxx: but beyond that not very well :)
[20:30:09] justinh: 50% usage on my 800Mhz Athlon crap
[20:30:14] justinh: baaaaaaaaaad
[20:30:23] justinh: and that was only PAL mpeg2 :)
[20:30:24] wang: okay, time to upgrade
[20:30:32] wang: mine will be pal too
[20:30:38] wang: good old chinese opera!
[20:30:51] GreyFoxx: wang: I've got several 733mhz frontends which I don't use for nay of my HD stuff
[20:31:01] GreyFoxx: once the nvidia ion boards come out I'll be swapping them out :)
[20:31:01] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: Iowa, Mediacom Cable rebroadcast local chanel as QAM, Pinnacle 800i PCTV HD card. Recorded in MythTV
[20:31:02] justinh: wang: you need something like greyfoxx said.. so > 1.8Ghz core2 duo
[20:31:13] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: so mpeg2 then
[20:31:27] wang: mmm
[20:31:41] wang: ok
[20:32:01] justinh: that'd be a fair cert, though a lot of this 'x264' crap is encoded at pretty low bitrates
[20:32:21] wang: well, not much action in chinese soaps
[20:32:27] wang: but its so good though
[20:32:34] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: yeah...looks like mpeg2
[20:32:40] justinh: I'll take your word for that, wang
[20:33:27] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: still, your system should be perky enough for that
[20:33:53] wang: justinh: there's one new one that's coming out in 3–4 months about the 7 empire days
[20:34:00] wang: its 64 episodes x 1 hour each
[20:34:01] justinh: I can never remember the whole jive about USEEVENTS in xorg.conf but that might have a bearing on things
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[20:35:10] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: I would think so too, but vlc w/ bob deinterlace is just as bad....
[20:35:21] wang: and there's even one about the cultural revolution, something like 100–120 episodes soon
[20:35:35] justinh: sounds like pulling teeth
[20:36:08] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: so? USEEVENTS would affect all video
[20:36:50] justinh: and if other software has issues with the same material that rather says to me that mythtv isn't the problem here ;)
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[20:38:03] justinh: Option "UseEvents" "True" – google it :)
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[20:39:39] dustybin: justinh: million dollar trader is a good watch :D
[20:39:58] dustybin: that and dragons den make excellent entertainment
[20:40:06] justinh: lol
[20:40:22] justinh: if I want to laugh at clueless dolts I just come here
[20:40:35] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: useevents is already set true :( sorry...got that one already too....
[20:41:10] justinh: NeoMatrixJR: you sure the nvidia driver is actually working, then?
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[20:41:36] NeoMatrixJR: justinh: it's in lsmod
[20:41:47] gbee: doesn't mean you are using it
[20:42:20] justinh: Driver "nvidia"
[20:42:27] justinh: as opposed to Driver "nv"
[20:42:31] justinh: or anything else
[20:42:59] NeoMatrixJR: yes, my driver is nvidia
[20:43:17] gbee: glxinfo | grep NVIDIA
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[20:43:36] NeoMatrixJR: xorg.conf : http://rafb.net/p/Hlb4XR84.html
[20:43:53] gbee: grep NVIDIA /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[20:44:14] iamlindoro: Whee! http://rafb.net/p/xHpKTg16.html
[20:44:25] NeoMatrixJR: glxinfo | grep NVIDIA: error: unable to open display (can I run that from ssh, or do I have to open in X?)
[20:44:37] iamlindoro: MythVideo Export patch now matches coverart/fanart/banner on seriesID
[20:44:42] gbee: DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo ...
[20:46:41] NeoMatrixJR: ok, hang on...this might be part of it...http://rafb.net/p/pEsBpI87.html
[20:47:21] NeoMatrixJR: what about :/dev/nvidiactl (permission denied)???
[20:47:31] NeoMatrixJR: but then it's fine when I sudo
[20:47:34] justinh: your user isn't in the 'video' group?
[20:49:07] justinh: iamlindoro: did you catch my viddycap?
[20:49:22] NeoMatrixJR: I don't appear to have a video group. I have a mythtv group...
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[20:49:28] iamlindoro: justinh, Yeah! It's looking good, the animation looks beter than I expected it to
[20:49:36] NeoMatrixJR: I'm in mythtv
[20:49:45] jpabq: slashdot is reporting that the House did *not* pass the analog cut-off delay. So it looks like the USA will still drop analog on Feb 17.
[20:49:45] justinh: the new menu looks better now :)
[20:50:01] iamlindoro: justinh, I think it looks great
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[20:50:32] justinh: if I can wangle buttons being different heights it'll be better yet
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[20:53:53] iamlindoro: gbee, can I convince you to add m_selectedItem = dynamic_cast<MythUIText *>(GetChild("selecteditem")); to the MythUIFileBrowser?
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[20:54:02] justinh: looking at it though.. don't have a clue yet
[20:54:21] iamlindoro: (and m_selecteditem->SetText(file); where appropriate)
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[20:59:57] stillinuse: hi
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[21:00:07] stillinuse: same story, lemme repeat like a parrot
[21:00:33] stillinuse: my card is msi master, chip cx23881, tuner MT2050.
[21:01:01] stillinuse: both of them are being auto detected as per dmseg
[21:01:17] justinh: and?
[21:01:42] stillinuse: problem is, at any given frequency i can only see good picture or hear good sound
[21:02:11] stuarta: is this a digital or an analogue card?
[21:02:17] justinh: analogue
[21:02:18] stillinuse: it's somewhat like, audio is always clear by an offset of 1.000 – 2.000 MHz that of video
[21:02:21] justinh: framegrabber
[21:02:32] justinh: wrong video standard selected ?
[21:02:34] stillinuse: MSI TV @nywhere Master
[21:02:37] ** stuarta runs and gets justinh a fresh cat **
[21:03:01] stillinuse: sort of hybrid, but currently using only analogue PAL-BG
[21:03:05] J-e-f-f-A: stuarta: Hey, leave my cat alone! ;-)
[21:03:06] justinh: stillinuse: what's it like in tvtime?
[21:03:18] stuarta: :-p
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[21:04:47] stillinuse: well, channel list using europe western
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[21:05:34] stillinuse: along v4l2
[21:06:05] justinh: so you live in a country where pal-BG is used?
[21:06:38] stillinuse: yes
[21:07:13] stillinuse: but if i use the same card on winxp, intervideo pvs, channel are good
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[21:07:37] justinh: does the card work better in tvtime?
[21:07:53] stillinuse: no
[21:08:16] stuarta: definitely sounds like a mismatched standard
[21:08:55] justinh: yup
[21:09:24] justinh: so, that ties the issue to the linux driver by the sound of things
[21:09:30] stillinuse: but there are only a few channels like 3 or so, with good picture and audio
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[21:09:55] stuarta: do they use mixed transmission standards there or summink
[21:09:55] justinh: even in windows?
[21:10:14] stillinuse: rest of them are all dirty, due to an offset error between video and audio
[21:10:22] stillinuse: in winxp they are all good
[21:10:26] justinh: I had a framegrabber that was absolutely pathetic, just like that
[21:10:38] justinh: junk, like most of those type of cards
[21:10:43] stillinuse: but in winxp, sound quality and video quality no good
[21:10:44] stuarta: what's the offset? 1mhz or similar?
[21:11:02] justinh: PAL-BG is 5Mhz offset IIRC
[21:11:17] justinh: PAL-I is 6Mhz
[21:11:33] stillinuse: audio offset is video freq + 1.000 to 2.000
[21:11:36] stuarta: so the offset i'm thinking of would be 1Mhz in that case
[21:11:37] stillinuse: but it depends
[21:11:46] justinh: oops. 5.5Mhz
[21:12:20] justinh: and in PAL-I it's 6.5Mhz
[21:12:27] justinh: there's ya 1Mhz difference
[21:12:28] stillinuse: card support mjpeg hardware based
[21:12:35] justinh: no it doesn't
[21:13:20] stillinuse: on mplayer, it give sort of same problem but produces very good picture quality if mjpeg flag enabled
[21:13:53] stillinuse: so is my tuner bad ?
[21:14:12] stillinuse: currently its being detected as mt20xx
[21:14:13] justinh: not if it works in windows
[21:14:16] stillinuse: dmesg report
[21:14:28] justinh: card autodetection is sometimes useless
[21:14:32] stillinuse: hmm
[21:14:35] stuarta: there may be an option that you can pass to the driver to set it into pal-bg mode....
[21:15:05] stillinuse: i have tried that
[21:15:09] stillinuse: but same result
[21:15:18] stuarta: pants, cleared my compiler cache :(
[21:15:49] stillinuse: have dug through v4lwiki and stuff but .... no luck
[21:15:57] justinh: stillinuse: so does dmesg actually say MSI-TV@nywhere ?
[21:16:10] stillinuse: yup, so does lspci -vnn
[21:16:55] BassKozz: I've hit a wall, I am trying to setup my HDHomeRun (using the wiki guide: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Silicondust_HDHomeRun), but when I scan for channels I keep getting "Timeout Scanning — notables", I did a quick google search and someone else had the same problem and the issue was his Firewall, but I don't have a firewall besides my Tomato Router, but I don't think that blocks LAN routes (only WAN)?
[21:17:04] justinh: if you set tvtime to use PAL-B/G does it work then?
[21:18:11] stillinuse: yes but with problem in most of chans, only 3 of them are good
[21:18:27] stillinuse: perhaps due to strong signal or whatever
[21:18:37] justinh: doubt it
[21:19:02] justinh: if the driver etc was working properly, you'd get the same channels & quality you get with the windows drivers
[21:19:25] stillinuse: 02:05.0 Multimedia video controller [0400]: Conexant Systems, Inc. CX23880/1/2/3 PCI Video and Audio Decoder [14f1:8800] (rev 05)
[21:20:06] stillinuse: Subsystem: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. Device [1462:8606]
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[21:21:06] justinh: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Cx88_devices_(cx2388x)#MSI
[21:22:00] stillinuse: justinh: i have been through ti
[21:22:59] justinh: sooooooooooooooo... time to buy a tuner worthy of the job :)
[21:24:08] stillinuse: lol
[21:24:46] stillinuse: yes, but i have an external one as well
[21:25:01] BenB_: *sigh* I am still fighting with the AlphaCrypt CA and CI
[21:25:05] BenB_ is now known as BenB
[21:25:30] stuarta: well i'm still fighting with GLContexts. i feel your pain
[21:25:31] stillinuse: can i use its tuner some how and recieve channel via S-Video ?
[21:26:24] BenB: TechniSat SkyStar HD = Technotrend S2–3200, with CI. AlphaCrypt Light. Premiere smartcard. linux 2.6.27-rc5 with multiproto drivers, and 2.6.28 with S2API drivers.
[21:26:38] justinh: stillinuse: you should be able to use its video input without any problems
[21:27:12] BenB: I keep getting "dvb_ca adaptor 0: PC card did not respond :("
[21:27:18] stillinuse: hmm thanks for help
[21:27:33] BenB: I purchased a new AlphaCrpt and new CI (!), but still same problem :(
[21:28:52] BenB: it used to work, I could record even Premiere HD movies with this card and older multiproto drivers, about one year ago.
[21:29:29] BenB: I'm quite frustrated.
[21:29:44] stuarta: i'm not surprised
[21:29:58] BenB: I'm paying for premiere since one year and can't use it, now spent 100 eur on new hardware, and nothing works.
[21:30:26] BenB: I have no idea what the problem is: dvb card, smartcard, drivers, something else I'm missing.
[21:30:41] stillinuse: justinh: trying another tuner will work ? i am no sure since i am already able to tune into either audio or video
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[21:31:14] stillinuse: does changing tuner will some how magically overcome this problem ?
[21:31:22] justinh: stillinuse: there are much better tuners than framegrabber rubbish
[21:31:30] justinh: hauppauge pvr150 etc
[21:31:43] justinh: and they won't eat your cpu while recording/watching shows
[21:32:00] stillinuse: hmm ok
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[21:34:31] d0netsFN: hey how can i set my mythtv to record all episodes of survivorman
[21:34:34] d0netsFN: but not duplicates
[21:34:41] d0netsFN: like on my directtv i just hit record twice
[21:35:04] BenB: d0netsFN: "record all of this show, [on this channel|on any channel]"
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[21:35:42] d0netsFN: so it wont make duplicates ?
[21:36:13] BenB: no, it in general never makes duplicates (unless you use the time-based "once every week" options)
[21:36:47] justinh: and unless subtitles/titles/descriptions change
[21:37:10] BenB: yes – I'm assuming a sane tv program source.
[21:37:33] BenB: d0netsFN: you can, in advanced options, say to only compare subtitles, not descriptions.
[21:37:54] BenB: (assuming you have the subtitle in your program source)
[21:38:20] d0netsFN: ok and how can i have it name the files relevant names
[21:38:24] d0netsFN: like title and sub
[21:38:44] BenB: laga: you there? I'm at the end of my latin.
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[21:44:48] wang: OMG!
[21:44:55] wang: the busses maybe goign bakc to work tomorrow!
[21:45:05] wang: (ops, sorry.. wrong channel)
[21:48:31] stillinuse: err, on PAL-I mode picture is ok but dmesg is reporting unknown tv audio mode [0]
[21:48:48] justinh: myers
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[21:55:46] stillinuse: thanks
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[22:10:48] joe2371: I gather that the fact that closed captioning seems not to work with my configuration is due to the tuner cardhardware compression
[22:11:06] joe2371: I gather that the fact that closed captioning seems not to work with my configuration is due to the tuner card's hardware compression being lossy?
[22:11:59] kormoc: other then typically there is a VBI device node that holds that info and certain drivers (ivtv) write the VBI to the stream anyway
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[22:13:33] joe2371: hmm. So I would have a /dev/vbi or /dev/v4l/vbi0 or something if both my hardware and driver supported it?
[22:13:51] kormoc: I believe so
[22:13:56] BenB: gack! I even have the old kernel and multiproto drivers still, the exact same ones I used when it still worked, and it still doesn't work.
[22:14:26] BenB: it's the same machine (just different case), same kernel, same drivers. different distro. same DVB-S2 card, new CI, new CA.
[22:15:13] wagnerrp: damned UPS
[22:15:18] wagnerrp: no delivery on account of weather
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[22:15:27] BenB: wagnerrp: lol
[22:15:28] wagnerrp: what ever happened to my guaranteed 3-day delivery
[22:15:50] wagnerrp: i want my $0.00 in shipping costs back!
[22:16:18] BenB: wagnerrp: ok, I'll reimburse you. I'll be on your account in 3 minutes, even.
[22:16:20] kormoc: all guarantees are based on good will and faith, not on actual delivery
[22:16:35] BenB: kormoc: "guaranteed" means guaranteed.
[22:16:49] kormoc: BenB, sadly not, read the fine print on the contract sometime
[22:16:50] wagnerrp: im half wanting to drive over to UPS and pick it up myself
[22:16:51] BenB: kormoc: "it's raining, I don't want to go out" is not good will :)
[22:17:13] wagnerrp: the other half doesnt want to clear my car off for the 3rd time in 30 hours
[22:17:22] BenB: kormoc: I am not talking about contracts, but definition of "guarantee" per dictionary
[22:17:29] kormoc: BenB, I've had them not deliver because they couldn't fit it on the truck, that wasn't covered by the guarantee
[22:17:43] kormoc: BenB, well, legally all that matters is the contract that you agreed to
[22:17:45] BenB: kormoc: you're kidding
[22:17:53] kormoc: not at all
[22:17:57] joe2371: Neither rain, nor sleet, nor snow, nor dark of night, shall keep the UPS guy from making his appointed rounds (weather permitting).
[22:18:15] wagnerrp: well there was rain, sleet, and snow
[22:18:19] wagnerrp: and besides, thats the USPS
[22:18:22] stuarta: and the closer you get to christmas you need to add an exponential delay to delivery times
[22:19:19] BenB: either they guarantee something, and deliver in *all* cases (war, hurricane etc. excluded), or they say "estimated in 3 days".
[22:19:32] BenB: if they get through with this, your law system is fucked
[22:19:59] gbee: GreyFoxx: were you the one who created patches to use a Sony DVD changer with myth?
[22:20:03] wagnerrp: to be honest, i dont remember entering into any sort of contract with the UPS
[22:20:13] gbee: if not, hands up whoever it was
[22:20:15] wagnerrp: perhaps newegg did... but i never saw any documentation
[22:20:53] kormoc: newegg did, they sign paperwork when they ship it, and newegg is giving you the estimate, ups isn't bound by what newegg says
[22:21:09] wagnerrp: basically
[22:21:32] BenB: kormoc: if newegg says "guaranteed", he can sue newegg.
[22:21:47] BenB: because he *does* have a contract with newegg.
[22:22:05] kormoc: "If UPS is unable to start or continue with carriage of the shipper?s package for a reason beyond its control, UPS will not be in breach of its agreement with the shipper but will take all steps that are reasonably practicable in the circumstances to commence or continue the carriage. Examples of events beyond UPS? control are disruption to air or ground transportation due to bad weather, fire, flood, war, hostilities, civil disturbance, ac
[22:22:05] kormoc: ts of government or other authorities (including, without limitation, customs) and labour disputes or obligations affecting UPS or some other party. "
[22:22:25] wagnerrp: what about bedlam?
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[22:22:53] kormoc: BenB, sadly not really, Newegg doesn't actually claim that they'll ship it, they just say what ups says, and they never signed anything that said they'll be held to that
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[22:23:39] BenB: kormoc: what you just quoted does *not* include rain. "disruption" means it's impossible to go, not "we don't feel like running in the rain".
[22:23:47] ** gbee is fascinated by the American love of suing **
[22:23:59] justinh: muhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I WANT MY PONY NOW!!
[22:24:00] kormoc: BenB, other then the fact that a lot of rain can be a disruption
[22:24:14] wagnerrp: BenB: it snowed, several inches
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[22:24:24] wagnerrp: followed by an inch or so of freezing rain overnight
[22:24:29] wagnerrp: and then several more inches today
[22:24:37] kormoc: gbee, the funny part is I (an American) is saying it's not a sueable offense and BenB (Not an American) is claiming it is.
[22:24:56] BenB: justinh: I'm waiting for my pony (Premiere) since one year already, and did all I can to make it happy, and it still doesn't want to walk :(
[22:25:27] wagnerrp: i had to chip somewhere around 6500lbs of ice off my driveway today, some areas were closed to traffic all together, id say that counts as sufficient disruption
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[22:25:33] BenB: wagnerrp: you're saying it actually is hard to impossible to drive? well, then... :)
[22:26:05] kormoc: BenB, it's all about 'reasonable expectations' and our courts tend to go with them. At times the shipper has to handle more packages then they intended and it's not unreasonable for some people to not get what they were promised as fast as they were, due to labor laws and the like. It's not unreasonable for them to delay delivery for a short time
[22:26:15] Matt22: Hi all, I've had a look through the links in the Chanserv message, but I can't seem to find an answer to my problem and I hope someone can help a poor orphan* (* may not actually be an orphan)
[22:26:36] kormoc: it's also not unreasonable for them to delay delivery if it might cause harm to their employees.
[22:26:36] wagnerrp: oddly enough, the 'Everyone vs. Everyone' episode of South Park was on last night
[22:27:10] kormoc: Matt22, so to go to Settings -> Problem -> Solution and make sure that Solution is checked
[22:27:15] BenB: kormoc: disagree. if they guarantee, that means they have to plan for all reasonably expected loads. which means they need to have enough staff to handle the *maximum* of packages with guarantee, not just something underneath it.
[22:27:19] justinh: kormoc: ha, then they might just get sued :P
[22:27:43] Matt22: kormoc: if only it was that easy – my machine keeps swearing at me instead. Most rude. :(
[22:27:46] kormoc: BenB, Well, that's not how it works here.
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[22:28:53] justinh: apple were granted a patent for an in-car power connector? fs
[22:29:06] BenB: wagnerrp: rather "the people vs. the companies"
[22:29:38] BenB: justinh: heh... FYI, there were rumors they are making a deal with Mercedes.
[22:29:55] Matt22: Can anyone spare a few minutes to help me find out just how stupid I'm being?
[22:30:09] BenB: Matt22: just ask your question, don't ask to ask.
[22:31:36] Matt22: Ok, thanks. I'm not sure I've got the mc.sql database populated correctly – when I run mythbackend, it gives me errors about a channel called "Please_add", even though I've run mythfilldatabase and I'm fairly sure the SQL database is running. The card is configured, and scans and identifies channels, but I'm not too sure how to go about troubleshooting from here.
[22:32:44] BenB: Matt22: the channel is called "Please_add"?
[22:32:59] Matt22: Yep. It's odd
[22:33:11] BenB: Matt22: that seems to be a remnant of some silly GUI which prefilled the field. just remove that one channel.
[22:33:30] BenB: Matt22: you know SQL / mysql?
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[22:33:41] Matt22: How do I do that? (new to this) And barely.
[22:33:43] BenB: Matt22: or maybe you can do it with the GUI tools.
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[22:34:27] unimaginative: Matt22, learning mysql was the smartest thing I did once I started using MythTV
[22:34:30] BenB: Matt22: $ mysql > use mythconverg; > delete from channel where channame = "Please_add"; or similar.
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[22:34:42] BenB: unimaginative: heh – which is a pity.
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[22:35:22] unimaginative: Matt22, "Please Add" has occured for me when I havent either retrieved the channels from schedulesdirect (when using analog) or scanned them (with digital)
[22:35:29] BenB: unimaginative: are you saying that mysql was needed for using mythtv, or that mysql was the *only* useful thing you did ever since, because you watch so much TV now?
[22:35:40] Matt22: unimaginative, I scanned them – so that's probably the issue
[22:35:58] unimaginative: BenB, learning mysql helped me understand what mythtv was doing, so that i could diagnose problems better.
[22:36:25] unimaginative: Matt22, are you running analog or digital tuners?
[22:36:39] Matt22: Digital, it's a Hauppauge HVR-1100
[22:36:47] BenB: unimaginative: right... now, imagine that my mom and dad or the video fanatic next door want to use mythtv.
[22:37:14] unimaginative: BenB, mythtv isn't for everyone.. yet.
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[22:37:30] kormoc: By Developers, For Developers
[22:37:42] justinh: I love that song.
[22:38:01] justinh: developers, developers, developers, developers :D
[22:38:18] kormoc: That's a song? Wow, talk about a low bar to get over :)
[22:38:50] unimaginative: Matt22, 1100, or 1110?
[22:38:54] Matt22: 1100
[22:38:57] justinh: hey you don't have to endure the iPod my colleague brings into the lab
[22:39:15] Dagmar: You know, iPods are very sensitive to ESD.
[22:39:18] BenB: kormoc: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1668365808879026423
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[22:39:42] unimaginative: Matt22, ahh, that appears to be an DVB digital/analog 'hybrid' card.
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[22:40:05] unimaginative: Matt22, if you're using digital, then you were correct, you needed to scan channels.
[22:40:10] Matt22: Yeah, that sounds about right – it seems to be picking up digital only with the settings I'm using at the moment
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[22:41:15] BenB: lol, that video is great.
[22:41:27] BenB: you need to watch it for at least 1 min
[22:42:10] ** gbee drools .... developers **
[22:42:15] unimaginative: Matt22, so did it actaully find any channels?
[22:42:26] unimaginative: Matt22, I've only got experience with ATSC, I'm in the US.
[22:42:28] gbee: developers
[22:42:33] Matt22: unimaginative, yes – it correctly found and labelled them, so that side looks like it's OK
[22:43:06] unimaginative: Matt22, so, now mythtv-setup SHOULD have automaticaly populate the "starting channel" combobox.
[22:43:19] Matt22: The channels are listed when I run myth-setup, but they don't seem to be toddling over to the database. :(
[22:43:35] Matt22: Huh. Hang on.. lemme check to see if I can find that box
[22:45:03] Matt22: How did I miss that... guh
[22:45:22] unimaginative: Matt22, :)
[22:46:36] Matt22: Nuts. Screen went black, then it hit an error with playback..
[22:46:57] unimaginative: Matt22, what's the backend log saying?
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[22:47:36] Matt22: The output window or the log itself? Sorry, I'm *really* new to this in case you didn't notice ;P
[22:47:55] unimaginative: Matt22, the log itself. IIRC, the output window gives some generic error message
[22:48:20] Matt22: Where would the log be?
[22:48:36] unimaginative: Matt22, specific to your distribution. Usually, /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
[22:50:11] Matt22: Preview Error: Run() file not local: 'myth://127.0.0.1:6543/1001_20090128224529.mpg – maybe this is it?
[22:50:39] Matt22: There's a video file with some of the footage that's about 8 seconds long. Weird
[22:50:41] unimaginative: Matt22, not necessarily. Usually that is followed by a line where it is made local.
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[22:51:31] Matt22: No mention of that; there are errors trying to delete a file, though
[22:52:01] unimaginative: Matt22, sounds like your storage groups are messed up.
[22:52:07] Matt22: This would not surprise me. :)
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[22:52:47] unimaginative: Matt22, 1) where is your storage directory? 2) what is the pathname of the file it is trying to delete?
[22:53:30] gbee: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/368371 would someone suggest to that guy that he updates to a newer revision
[22:54:08] Matt22: unimaginative, 1) it appears to be / (oops!) and 2) /GetPlaybackURL/UNABLE/TO/FIND/LOCAL/FILE/ON/warpstorm.localdomain/1001_20090128 224530.mpg
[22:54:11] unimaginative: gbee, good lord he's using truck, *with* VDPAU?
[22:54:18] unimaginative: and he's wondering why stuff doesn't work.
[22:55:24] unimaginative: Matt22, i'd first head back into mythtv-setup and double-check your storage directory.
[22:55:55] unimaginative: Then, I'd make sure it exists and is writable by whatever user mythbackend is running under
[22:56:21] unimaginative: personally, I use /recordings on a raid1
[22:57:21] unimaginative: gbee, haha s/truck/trunk
[22:58:27] Matt22: Ok. Corrected the directory for Live TV
[22:59:20] Dagmar: *chuckle*
[22:59:43] unimaginative: Matt22, at this point you do not need seperate storage groups. Do you have more than one storage group set?
[22:59:51] Matt22: Nope.
[22:59:58] gbee: the bug he's seeing was probably fixed 3 days ago, i.e. three days before he posted that, clearly not reading the commits list like he should be
[23:00:35] unimaginative: Matt22, okay, now make sure that directory exists, and is writable by the user mythbackend is running under.
[23:01:14] Matt22: Done, and just tried – TV works, but no sound. Typical ;) I suspect that's down to me having an X-Fi..
[23:01:40] unimaginative: Matt22, could be an alsa issue also. that's all handled on the frontend.
[23:01:46] Matt22: That said, I've compiled the drivers, and Totem uses it with no problems. I need to do some digging to set the XFi as the default sound device, I think
[23:01:56] unimaginative: Matt22, are you using spdif, or analog?
[23:01:58] Matt22: Analog
[23:02:38] unimaginative: Matt22, in the frontend configuration, make sure your sound settings are correct. ALSA:default should JustWork(tm)
[23:02:51] Matt22: Heh. Let's give it a whirl!
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[23:04:06] unimaginative: Matt22, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Detail . . . ontend#Audio
[23:04:19] gbee: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/368435&nbs p;– this guy probably needs to change the callsigns of identical channges so that they actually match
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[23:05:50] unimaginative: gbee, Not sure how DVB does it, but as long as I've made sure my XMLTVID's match they they work fine
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[23:08:30] Matt22: Everything's set to ALSA default, but still no go :/ Is there a way to force my soundcard to be the default for everything? (as Firefox can't use it for sound, either)
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[23:09:22] Matt22: Ah, wait – it's using an OSS driver
[23:09:50] Matt22: .. or is it? Gah! Creative ALSA Driver X-Fi (OSS)
[23:10:13] directhex: x-fi support is still far from sensible
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[23:10:28] unimaginative: Matt22, that's what I was about to suggest, it seems Alsa doensn't have an open source driver for the X-fi yet.
[23:10:46] unimaginative: Matt22, if youv'e got the option, you may just use onboard sound for now
[23:11:05] directhex: unimaginative, creative released all their source for their x-fi driver. they basically abandoned it & released the crap they had so far
[23:11:53] unimaginative: Ahh. Smooth move by creative.
[23:12:43] unimaginative: AFK for now.
[23:14:03] Matt22: Got it working :)
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[23:14:38] Matt22: Thanks for all the help, unimaginative – I probably would've gone on a small crime spree by now!
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[23:31:54] unimaginative: sigh, I'm considering setting up a -trunk test system on my laptop.
[23:31:59] iamlindoro: malocite, Anyway, no, I don't use that script-- but FWIW there's new functionality in MythVideo that'll be out in .22 to assign trailers to movies, play "x" trailers before a film/etc. so trailer playback will be more fun in .22
[23:32:27] malocite: that's cool...
[23:32:31] unimaginative: iamlindoro, which I will affectionately call "movie night"
[23:32:36] iamlindoro: yep :)
[23:32:37] sphery: malocite: and the apple trailers "plugin" is a hack that needs to be fixed--i.e. incorporated into MythTube
[23:33:14] malocite: iamlindoro: The issue I have... and I think its REALLY weird is that it takes 35 seconds from the time I click on the trailer for it to start, even if I download it straight to the harddrive ahead of time. When I launch it from mplayer on the command line it takes 1 second....
[23:33:27] iamlindoro: http://www.fecitfacta.com/Trailers.png
[23:33:33] iamlindoro: Trailer functionality ^^
[23:33:34] malocite: but it sounds like that too is going the way of the dodo
[23:33:42] sphery: the apple trailers script that was in contrib is violating the website's ToS, so it's gone, now. The "plugin" (that just makes menu entries to play trailers) should be a script for MythTube that makes the trailers available the same way the MythTube script makes YouTube videos available (inside the plugin)
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[23:34:10] iamlindoro: malocite, The Aplpe Trailer "plugin" is an awful awful hack.. anything that downloads AND plays using some external utility is going to stink
[23:34:18] malocite: wow, that's really cool.
[23:34:49] malocite: iamlindoro: hehe... yeah, you could use it to scrape the site and download all the trailers and play, or play from the online in mplayer, is the direction myth moving in to be more focused on the internal player?
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[23:35:30] iamlindoro: myth *only* provides support for the internal player, and no part of myth calls mplayer... if the user chooses to use an external player, they're on their own
[23:36:04] directhex: iamlindoro, i was wondering about netflix.........
[23:36:09] iamlindoro: and as for "plugin" authors who choose to use mplayer.. well it just sets aflame any aspirations of it ever being part of myth
[23:36:21] iamlindoro: directhex, hm?
[23:37:24] directhex: iamlindoro, netflix streaming using a qt html control & the moonlight browser plugin. it ought to be possible to integrate it cleanly
[23:37:52] malocite: iamlindoro: I used the internal player all the time on the previous version of Myth, but when I wiped the drive and started fresh with Mythbuntu 8.10 the internal player was so slow I couldn't use it. Responsiveness went from immediate to like 5 seconds or more of lag... I couldn't figure out why... I love the internal player, I hate using mplayer but right now its all that works for me.
[23:37:57] iamlindoro: directhex, except only Qt 4.5 supports mozilla plugins and it's not out yet
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[23:38:25] iamlindoro: directhex, at least in terms of integrating it in myth
[23:38:36] iamlindoro: and the webbrowser widget would need an overhaul
[23:38:37] directhex: iamlindoro, how does konq do it?
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[23:38:53] iamlindoro: since AFAIK it currently just paints to a QImage every so often and displays that, sothere's no way I can see to do video with it ATM
[23:39:19] iamlindoro: directhex, I would presume they wrote their own plugin support
[23:41:05] iamlindoro: Paul H is probably the one to ask about that, though
[23:41:21] iamlindoro: As I would bet he has *some* plan for integrating things like that once Qt 4.5 is available
[23:42:12] directhex: iamlindoro, well, either it needs to happen in a browser control of some kind, or libavcodec needs to grow the ability to use silverlight-media-pack-linux-x64-5–1.so directly
[23:42:28] iamlindoro: good luck getting that one by the ffmpeg devs :)
[23:42:46] directhex: iamlindoro, meh, it already supports win32codecs doesn't it?
[23:43:00] iamlindoro: mplayer does, ffmepg doesn't have anything to do with it AFAIK
[23:43:13] directhex: ah
[23:43:16] directhex: joy
[23:43:35] iamlindoro: although at LAST it looks like ffmpeg might get wmapro support in the nearish future
[23:43:47] malocite: any ideas as to what was wrong with the internal player on .21 that made it go so slow? Anything I could do to fix it?
[23:43:50] iamlindoro: which more or less removes *most* people's reasons for w32codecs anyway
[23:44:14] iamlindoro: malocite, Can you more compeltely describe what you're seeing?
[23:44:23] directhex: iamlindoro, well, when moonlight gets DRM support, it'll be in that codec lib directly
[23:44:52] iamlindoro: directhex, in w32codecs?
[23:45:20] directhex: iamlindoro, no, in silverlight-media-pack-linux-*.so
[23:45:24] iamlindoro: ah
[23:45:36] sphery: malocite: it's X locking with the new X API, I'd bet. There was a pretty major locking fix that went into trunk, but it can't be backported to -fixes becaues it's completely different code. Therefore, a(n affected) -fixes user has to debug it and submit a patch
[23:45:39] malocite: Sure, In 0.20 (mythbuntu 7.04) I used the internal player and it was fine. I upgraded to 8.10 (formatted the drive, clean install) when I used the internal player there, there was a lag of about 5 seconds between a button press and action (on the remote) as well keyboard access was very slow, and it was very slow to load videos. Primarily divx or xvid avis
[23:45:55] malocite: hmm
[23:46:03] malocite: so its an X Windows issue?
[23:46:08] sphery: malocite: it's not directly Myth that's the problem, it's 8.10 (and its use of a new X) that caused it.
[23:46:12] iamlindoro: malocite, I have been sort-of following that bug but not closely as I'm no affected, sphery seems to know more about it than I
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[23:46:41] sphery: Myth is just triggering an issue that didn't get triggered with the older X, so Myth has no code to prevent triggering the issue.
[23:47:17] sphery: I also am not affected, so I won't be finding the fix for -fixes.
[23:47:18] meshe: I might be experiencing that issue, sometimes I'll press a button on my remote and 2 minutes later it will execute
[23:47:32] iamlindoro: meshe, yeah, that sounds like it
[23:47:33] sphery: meshe: yep, that's it
[23:47:43] sphery: meshe: only on -fixes (current trunk has fixed the issue)
[23:47:54] malocite: Hmmm... you say it is fixed in the trunk for .22?
[23:47:59] malocite: or a trunk of X
[23:48:05] sphery: Myth trunk
[23:48:14] malocite: I can't install that I guess... '
[23:48:19] sphery: but rather than upgrading to trunk, we need someone to find the fix for -fixes
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[23:48:31] iamlindoro: Oh yay! I love it when LOST night sneaks up on me
[23:48:34] meshe: yeah, 0.21-fixes here
[23:48:36] jpabq: iamlindoro: any progress with DTS-MA?
[23:48:43] malocite: sphery: Enlighten me to the term -fixes
[23:48:47] iamlindoro: jpabq, none that I am aware of
[23:48:49] iamlindoro: jpabq, I'
[23:49:03] sphery: -fixes = MythTV 0.21-fixes (=what packagers make available)
[23:49:05] iamlindoro: jpabq, I've submerged myself in myth stuff so haven't even thought of it in a while
[23:49:24] jpabq: iamlindoro: what about your clone? What is he doing?
[23:49:33] malocite: sphery: Where do those end up
[23:49:35] iamlindoro: jpabq, They've got all the pieces they need to make it work, someone just needs to write the parsing code (and madshi donated parsing code, so...
[23:49:43] meshe: sphery: any idea where it was fixed in trunk? what files/revision?
[23:49:50] iamlindoro: jpabq, Hehe, I'd be useless for codec authorship, Im too scared of ffmpeg-dev :)
[23:50:24] sphery: meshe: several, but it's not as simple as finding the change and backporting it to -fixes because the code that's in -fixes was completely replaced with totally different code before the fix went into trunk
[23:50:42] meshe: heh
[23:50:50] sphery: i.e. the code that got fixed in trunk does not exist in -fixes... There's a different, older version of that code in -fixes
[23:50:55] meshe: is there a bug report that explains the issue?
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[23:51:10] sphery: there are a few tickets, but no explanations...
[23:51:35] meshe: that's going to be a hard one to find then
[23:51:52] sphery: It's likely just a matter of someone putting some locks in places in -fixes until they find the one that fixes it. Much easier if the person understands X locking and/or the MythTV event queue.  :)
[23:52:21] malocite: Where do you get the fixes? I don't see them on the main mythtv.org site
[23:52:35] meshe: yeah, but on my system it's so random, it happens like once a week
[23:52:43] sphery: Yep, so people on Ubuntu 8.10, FC10, and (I think) FC9 will just have to suffer through delays when hitting keys/remote buttons until someone finds it
[23:52:55] meshe: not good enough for debugging
[23:53:07] sphery: malocite: http://svn.mythtv.org/ (see the part about "for the /stable/ version"
[23:53:09] meshe: sounds like it's time to build from trunk
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[23:53:30] malocite: sphery: I see it now :) I should just reformat and put on ubuntu 8.04... that'll solve it
[23:54:06] malocite: I'm gonna run out and get some fattening and cancer causing mcdonalds food :) Be back soon
[23:54:18] sphery: if you move to trunk, please subscribe to and read the -dev and -commits mailing lists (which are a /lot/ to read). Please also don't waste developer time asking about things that are explained in those lists (i.e. search the archives so you can come up to speed on every change that's been made to Myth since 0.21 was released).
[23:54:30] sphery: i.e. running trunk is a committment
[23:54:45] sphery: if you just want a DVR, -fixes is a /much/ better option
[23:55:09] Dibblah: And the recently created fork of Myth is another ;)
[23:55:10] sphery: (and, it's likely that you can just use Ubuntu 8.04 or something until someone finds the fix for the responsiveness in -fixes)
[23:55:30] meshe: i have both lists bookmarked and I search them and google for pretty much everything before i ever ask a question
[23:55:43] sphery: Dibblah: yeah, something that pretends to be stable (because "it's -fixes, after all"), but is really trunk without a commit log
[23:56:09] sphery: meshe: we'd be /much/ happier if you could find the fix for the responsiveness issue, though.. :)
[23:56:43] meshe: if it was happening all the time I would definately look into it, but until i find a reproducable event it would be an excercise in futility
[23:57:03] sphery: Dibblah: btw, when talking about the guy fixing LiveTV with multirec, it was about a post to -dev list (and the guy who posted it is one who thinks LIveTV is broken with multirec because he has to switch cards to change to some channels)
[23:57:11] sphery: it wasn't a comment about you
[23:57:29] Dibblah: Sure – I know.
[23:57:33] sphery: meshe: and, living with it may actually be a better option
[23:57:54] Dibblah: I do think there may be an issue with the fast tuning or multirec code in trunk, however.
[23:57:58] meshe: heh
[23:58:01] sphery: I run 0.21-fixes on my production systems (3 backends and 2 frontends). I /only/ run trunk on my dev box.
[23:58:07] Dibblah: Should take the time to track it down :(
[23:58:13] sphery: Dibblah: yeah, could be.
[23:58:24] meshe: is it that unstable?
[23:58:45] Dibblah: For some, no. Perfectly usable.
[23:58:54] sphery: meshe: if it only happens once every couple of weeks, I'd stick with 0.21-fixes (especially since Ctrl-Alt-BkSpc is a quick way to regain control :)
[23:59:00] Dagmar: If it were "stable" as a user expects, it would be called "stable"
[23:59:01] Dibblah: For others, crashy as a crashy thing on the crashy crashy pills.
[23:59:27] sphery: meshe: whether it's stable or not is not the issue... Trunk simply puts the onus on the person running trunk to diagnose and fix all the issues that come up.

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