MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (208):

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Thursday, January 22nd, 2009, 00:01 UTC
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[00:02:44] kormoc: you never know, perhaps he is the neo!
[00:03:24] Dagmar: He could get lucky and hit a magma pocket like they did in HI
[00:04:30] Dagmar: I think about the only solution to his problem is going to be to come up with an entirely new way to compress video.
[00:04:53] Dagmar: ...the very idea of which would probably make a lot of mathematicians run and hide.
[00:06:03] Dagmar: That he hasn't yet boiled things down to an enumerated list of sources of latency and their proportional differences and variances is kinda sad.
[00:06:19] thefRont is now known as thefront
[00:06:46] Dagmar: He could probably solve one, maybe two of them "reasonably" and that would probably be enough to make his channel-surfing advisor happy.
[00:07:16] Dagmar: I just think he has no idea how deep the project he's trying to tackle will become, and hasn't yet even thrown the figurative stone down it to hear the lack of echo.
[00:08:25] Dagmar: I know of a "business strategy" for eliminating channel-change delays.
[00:08:54] Dagmar: Just cache a bunch of commercials locally, and when someone switches ot a new channel, start showing them a cached commercial which buys you a LOT of time for buffering
[00:08:57] kuki_n_on_gas: its getting very 1984 in here
[00:09:15] Dagmar: .,..and no one's actually likely to get killed by falling PVRs when their owners chuck them out the window for that.
[00:09:24] kuki_n_on_gas is now known as kukin_on_gas
[00:09:41] Dagmar: The guys in ad revenue would probably be headed to the bathroom with a box of tissues after reading that tho
[00:10:18] kukin_on_gas: at least with a mythtv box it wont get nick!! loled when your house gets robbed. Its too heavy
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[00:12:06] Dagmar: They could also just start showing video from whatever partial frame is available
[00:12:24] Dagmar: Everyone loves the psychedelic effect you get when you replace an I frame with random data
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[00:29:38] sphery: iamlindoro: nice
[00:30:10] iamlindoro: sphery, Yeah, it's pretty much working perfectly, would just like to figure out a progress bar for the copy and it should be more or less done for now
[00:30:53] Dagmar: Just generate a random number between 6 and 400 and display it every few seconds.
[00:30:58] sphery: does it block the UI?
[00:31:00] Dagmar: It worked well enough for XP.
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[00:31:06] iamlindoro: sphery, yes
[00:31:37] sphery: so how long did it take to copy 6GiB?
[00:31:47] iamlindoro: couple minutes (over the network)
[00:31:57] wagnerrp: Dagmar: i want you to know thats blatantly false! i have a transfer here that says it wont be done for 1562486218 minutes
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[00:32:22] iamlindoro: sphery, I threw in a confirmation dialog since it does
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[00:33:00] sphery: iamlindoro: cool... I guess if I do the backend support for move, I should have it check fsid and, if the same filesystem, move, otherwise copy
[00:33:37] iamlindoro: sphery, Well, i'd prefer to have a flag for "always copy" in this case
[00:33:54] sphery: why?
[00:34:01] iamlindoro: provides a little fallback in case the person wants it in both places-- I would prefer they have to check and *then* delete the original
[00:34:21] sphery: oh, I see... Didn't think about both places
[00:34:44] sphery: but for same filesystem, move is just relinking it (renaming it)
[00:35:10] iamlindoro: Also need to figure out how to parse the userjob-style %VARIABLES%
[00:35:18] iamlindoro: since right now my preferences are just hardcoded
[00:35:59] iamlindoro: would rather they be able to build something like "Television/%CATEGORY%/%TITLE%/%TITLE% %DATE% – %SUBTITLE%"
[00:36:10] sphery: cool
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[00:37:05] iamlindoro: This is where season and episode number would come in suuuuuper handy from SD
[00:37:24] Dagmar: Hmm... sounds like a hint
[00:40:00] sphery: I would tell you that you could look at program.syndicatedepisodenumber , but it's not guaranteed to be there and it's in whatever garbage format the show creators decided to use.
[00:40:26] iamlindoro: yes, sometimes it's sort of right, other times... ugh
[00:40:33] sphery: i.e. 19/20 or 5136 or TP01089 or 5ABE13
[00:40:59] sphery: however, I'm pretty sure thetvdb has that kind of info...
[00:41:21] sphery: (and distilled down to a sensible/meaningful value)
[00:41:24] iamlindoro: yeah, but until we're parsing it directly into programinfo I don't want to use it
[00:41:33] iamlindoro: I don't want to make this a three way transaction
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[00:56:42] iamlindoro: Channel source is supposed to be whomever you get your listings from, be it a grabber, Schedules Direct, EIT, etc.
[00:56:42] iamlindoro: You probably ought to read and follow the manual
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[01:08:32] gumpert345: iamlindoro you were right, I tought it was a install problem, but I simply didnt configure mythtv
[01:08:45] iamlindoro: ;) Glad you got it sorted out :)
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[01:11:59] dolphin: what should i get for OTA HD?
[01:12:02] dolphin: hdhomerun?
[01:13:21] J-e-f-f-A: dolphin: That's what I have... I have also had a HD-3000 and HD-5500, but don't use them currently.
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[01:14:08] dolphin: J-e-f-f-A: so i'm guessing that the homerun is my only way of getting HD recordings? ... since HD cable will be encrypted?
[01:14:43] poodyp: any ATSC tuner will work
[01:16:00] wagnerrp: dolphin: the HDHR is incapable of getting encrypted cable
[01:16:23] J-e-f-f-A: dolphin: As poodyp says, any ATSC tuner will work. You will also be able to import HD via a HD-PVR – through component video output on a HD Set-top-box
[01:16:47] poodyp: also for cable you could try firewire
[01:16:50] dolphin: poodyp: even if the channels are encrypted?
[01:17:10] dolphin: Jeff: i'm not renting a cable box
[01:17:15] wagnerrp: QAM encryption, and firewire (5C) encryption are two different things
[01:17:15] dolphin: i'll cut it before i pay more $$
[01:17:29] wagnerrp: dolphin: most digital cable is encrypted
[01:17:40] wagnerrp: no QAM capture device under linux will capture encrypted cable
[01:17:57] wagnerrp: meaning you usually cant get more than the local broadcast channels
[01:17:59] dolphin: exactly.. so a HDHR is my only chance at HD recordings with myth, right?
[01:18:06] dolphin: that's what i've heard
[01:18:15] wagnerrp: NO! any linux compatible QAM tuner will do
[01:18:22] wagnerrp: and nearly all digital tuners support QAM
[01:18:53] poodyp: the HDHR is just one of many QAM/ATSC tuners
[01:18:55] wagnerrp: you need a decryption card to access digital cable
[01:19:04] J-e-f-f-A: dolphin: The only option for digital, encrypted cable would be a 'CableCard" tuner, and none exist... (I think at one time there was one for MCE, but perhaps that never made it to market...)
[01:19:04] wagnerrp: whether that 'card' is hardwired into your cable box
[01:19:07] poodyp: only it has a network interface instead of PCI/PCI-e
[01:19:13] wagnerrp: or you have a cablecard based tuner
[01:19:24] dolphin: ok, so cableco sends me encrypted channels, i don't rent their box, but a HD-5500 will ...
[01:19:27] dolphin: this hurts my head
[01:19:30] wagnerrp: i only know of two cablecard tuners, and neither of them work on linux
[01:19:41] dolphin: ok then...
[01:19:46] Dagmar: dolphin: The card will do nothing with their encrypted signals
[01:19:50] gumpert345: when I start mythtv from command line with: mythtv I can watch TV but I miss the menu where I can choose other plugins or options what command do I need to access the frontend?
[01:19:56] wagnerrp: an HD-5500 WILL NOT access encrypted digital cable
[01:20:06] J-e-f-f-A: gumpert345: just "mythfrontend"
[01:20:12] gumpert345: thx
[01:20:14] wagnerrp: nothing you do in linux will let you use encrypted QAM
[01:20:16] Dagmar: "but a HD-5500 will ... " The answer is "fail me miserably"
[01:20:27] dolphin: wagnerrp: then why did you answer NO! earlier?
[01:20:52] wagnerrp: because any linux compatible qam tuner will do just as much as an HDHR
[01:20:58] wagnerrp: none of them will access encrypted channels
[01:21:07] wagnerrp: if you want the encrypted channels, you need an STB
[01:21:32] dolphin: so, how many OTA receivers are there that work with linux besides HDHR?
[01:21:34] wagnerrp: and you either need to capture what you can over firewire, which is an unknown but a free unknown
[01:21:51] wagnerrp: or you have to buy an HDPVR and capture component off the STB
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[01:22:10] wagnerrp: dolphin: check out linuxtv.org, the DVB section
[01:22:15] J-e-f-f-A: dolphin: Yes, lots. there's a list at linuxtv.org
[01:22:24] ** J-e-f-f-A is too slow tonight... DOH!  ;-) **
[01:22:40] gumpert345: mythtv crashes using mythfrontend: http://pastebin.com/d3ad77c11 what might be the problem?
[01:22:55] wagnerrp: if you go to http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels, you can get a list of channels you can expect to record over QAM
[01:25:05] dolphin: this is all too lame
[01:25:07] Dagmar: gumpert345: When did it stop working?
[01:25:15] dolphin: anybody here used boxee?
[01:25:34] Dagmar: dolphin: Your options for HD are basically the HD-PVR and an STB. It's less annoying if it's simple, but not by much.
[01:25:59] Dagmar: Boxee doesn't change that.
[01:26:19] gumpert345: i looked up segmentation fault, Im using 0.22 so it might be a bug, right? Dagmar: using "mythv" works and I can watch TV but when I use "mythfrontend" it gets black and tries to start but crashes
[01:26:23] wagnerrp: boxee cannot record anyway
[01:26:35] dolphin: Dagmar: i realize, but it is a good frontend
[01:26:44] dolphin: i can live without cable if they force me to pay for their STB
[01:26:46] wagnerrp: gumpert345: you need some more verbose logs to figure that one out
[01:26:51] Dagmar: gumpert345: Answer the question asked.
[01:26:58] wagnerrp: dolphin: boxee is not a frontend
[01:27:02] dolphin: uhh... yes it is
[01:27:03] wagnerrp: boxee is a video player
[01:27:11] dolphin: it's a frontend for any video
[01:27:15] dolphin: including myth recordings
[01:27:16] Dagmar: Let's just leave him to wallow in his own ignorance.
[01:27:21] wagnerrp: frontend implys that there is something in the background, like mythbackend
[01:27:32] dolphin: rtorrent??
[01:27:34] wagnerrp: if there is only one program, its not a frontend
[01:27:44] dolphin: the flash videos online?
[01:27:49] gumpert345: Dagmar I dont understand your question it stopped working 2 minutes ago
[01:27:57] wagnerrp: thats like calling firefox a frontend
[01:28:03] wagnerrp: its a frontend to the web!
[01:28:06] Dagmar: So you got one segmentation fault and it won't restart?
[01:28:09] dolphin: all graphical apps should be called frontends
[01:28:20] Dagmar: dolphin: No.
[01:28:21] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: but it is... a frontend to the web! <dam*, to slow again!>
[01:28:29] gumpert345: Dagmar yes
[01:28:34] poodyp: dolphin: you're thinking interface
[01:28:35] Dagmar: gumpert345: Have you even tried REBOOTING?
[01:29:14] gumpert345: Dagmar no, is this a common way to solve this kind of errors?
[01:29:30] Dagmar: gumpert345: For people who don't know much about Linux, yes.
[01:29:42] gumpert345: Ill try a reboot
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[01:30:15] Dagmar: We could spend an hour poking and prodding the machine with me typing things for you to try and you maybe typing them in correctly or maybe not, and you maybe noticing things which matter but mostly typing stuff that doesn't matter to me, or we can just skip over a whole lot of stuff that neither of us cares about and reboot the machine.
[01:30:30] Dagmar: Unintrusive, simple fixes come first in triage.
[01:30:33] wagnerrp: a bit late there
[01:31:24] Dagmar: If he comes back and we find out it was only running for ten minutes total before segfaulting, I'm going to tell him to run memtest86
[01:31:25] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Yeah, watching a movie @ the same time... ;-) so I was typing while watching the movie... ;-)
[01:31:58] wagnerrp: i actually meant Dagmar
[01:32:09] wagnerrp: responding after the guy left, presumably to reboot
[01:32:19] Dagmar: I should hope so
[01:32:35] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Ah... I didn't notice since I turned off join/part messages recently... ;-)
[01:32:49] Dagmar: I've not seen Myth have many failure states that make it up and segemntation fault at random times that didn't involve user insanity or hardware problems
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[01:33:40] gumpert345: Dagmar rebooting did not help
[01:33:51] gumpert345: I get the same error again
[01:34:02] wagnerrp: Dagmar: actually, my frontend up and segfaulted with much the same behavior a few hours ago
[01:34:12] wagnerrp: but it was over VNC with the primary decoder set to VDPAU
[01:34:16] wagnerrp: so i didnt think much of it
[01:34:47] wagnerrp: i suppose you could say that did involve 'user insanity'
[01:34:58] Dagmar: gumpert345: It ran for how long?
[01:35:29] gumpert345: 3 seconds
[01:35:44] Dagmar: So how long was this running before?
[01:36:04] gumpert345: 3 seconds
[01:36:13] wagnerrp: gumpert345: run the frontend using 'mythfrontend -v all > some_log_file', do the same thing that made it crash, check whats in the log file right before the crash
[01:36:24] Dagmar: *sigh*
[01:36:38] wagnerrp: theres not much point to debugging mythtv if you only have marginal logging
[01:37:01] wagnerrp: check memory usage, make sure youre not running out and getting killed
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[01:40:47] gumpert345: http://pastebin.com/d6cd310ee this what the logfile says I checked for memory usage but I got 1 GB left when I tested
[01:41:29] Dagmar: That's where the log terminates?
[01:42:09] gumpert345: yes thats all
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[01:42:20] wagnerrp: theres no error, or other indication of failure in that log
[01:42:25] Dagmar: Are you sure you don't have a DISK FULL problem?
[01:42:38] gumpert345: what means DISK FULL?
[01:42:44] wagnerrp: no space free
[01:42:46] Dagmar: It means your disk may be full.
[01:42:54] gumpert345: no 21 GB free
[01:43:04] Dagmar: And you only have one big partition for everything?
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[01:44:06] gumpert345: yes. Maybe it is VDPAU related? I use a nvidia gpu and 180.22 driver, as it happened to wagnerrp ?
[01:44:23] wagnerrp: so change your playback profile to one that is not using vdpau
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[01:44:46] wagnerrp: vdpau is a technology demonstrator
[01:44:52] wagnerrp: wholly unsuppoprted
[01:45:30] Dagmar: What version of MythTV are you running?
[01:45:52] gumpert345: 0.22
[01:46:01] wagnerrp: there is no such thing as MythTV 0.22
[01:46:10] gumpert345: trunk
[01:46:11] J-e-f-f-A: (yet) ;-)
[01:46:15] wagnerrp: revision?
[01:46:41] Dagmar: Im not touching that then.
[01:46:46] Dagmar: Unstable versions are unstable.
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[01:48:04] Dagmar: By the way, a better answer earlier would have been "It was running fine until I upgraded to trunk"
[01:48:19] gumpert345: deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/mythbuntu-trunk-0.22/ubuntu intrepid main thats where its from it says its 0.22 trunk but I dont think vdpau would be choosen as playback profile by default, I didnt change it do vdpau by myself
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[01:48:50] Dagmar: Doesn't matter, it's the unstable branch.
[01:49:01] J-e-f-f-A: gumpert345: Well, it's still SVN Trunk, ^^^ exactly.
[01:49:10] Dagmar: It's also *MythBuntu* which has it's own channel
[01:49:34] iamlindoro: And they can't make excuses for you not suing trunk since they were silly enough to give it to people
[01:49:39] J-e-f-f-A: gumpert345: You should be running 0.21-fixes if you want stability.
[01:49:41] iamlindoro: using
[01:50:31] wagnerrp: some package managers prefer to call trunk '0.22', as it makes it easier to maintain versioning
[01:50:43] gumpert345: im aware of all that, and I dont complain, I was just curious whether this is a instability related or configuration related problem
[01:51:24] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: perhaps they do it because the version string says 0.22 ?
[01:51:29] wagnerrp: switch over to another output mechanism (other than vdpau), and see if that fixes your problem
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[01:51:57] J-e-f-f-A: I don't think that will help him, since "livetv" works via "mythtv" startup, but not the main menu... seems odd...
[01:52:52] gumpert345: I dont even know whether it is using, vdpau, I cant get into the options menu, it crashes too fast, maybe there is a config file?
[01:53:05] wagnerrp: so it has nothing to do with playback
[01:53:15] wagnerrp: the frontend is just crashing on its own
[01:53:55] gumpert345: I dont know why it crashes but when I type mythtv I can watch without problems, only mythfrontend crashes
[01:54:25] wagnerrp: but it crashes when youre just navigating the menus as well?
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[01:54:50] gumpert345: I dont even get that far, it is about to start but crashes after 3 second
[01:55:02] wagnerrp: so you cannot even open the frontend
[01:55:13] gumpert345: no
[01:55:27] wagnerrp: ok, i thought you said it had crashed going into livetv
[01:55:35] Dagmar: So um, by now a lot of people would be realizing that what you've installed doesn't work
[01:55:47] Dagmar: Not "stopped working" but "does not work"
[01:56:05] Dagmar: So remove that "0.22" and install 0.21 or 0.21-fixes.
[01:56:30] J-e-f-f-A: gumpert345: probably best to continue in #mythbuntu ...
[01:56:43] wagnerrp: actually, looking back through the irc history, is this the first time youve used mythtv?
[01:57:12] gumpert345: no,
[01:58:06] wagnerrp: you ran 'mythtv', thinking that was the frontend application
[01:58:29] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: I can't get over how fast hibernate/resume is on FC10... blows windoze away... ;-)
[01:58:47] Dagmar: No one who's read the documentation would be likely to try and start MythTV by running 'mythtv`.
[01:58:51] gumpert345: yes, but I soon realised it isnt ;-)
[01:58:53] Dagmar: That's a bit of a giveaway
[01:59:07] Dagmar: You need to be talking to #MythBuntu about problems with their binary.
[01:59:09] sphery: gumpert345: I /highly/ recommend following Dagmar's advice and using the stable 0.21-fixes branch rather than the unstable trunk branch.
[02:00:21] Dagmar: New Lost is on. All conversation will likely now collapse in upon itself.
[02:00:48] wagnerrp: in season 12, you learn the aliens put them on the island
[02:01:19] poodyp: in season 56 their great grandchildren are all inbred and drooling
[02:01:52] sphery: there is no island
[02:02:15] wagnerrp: great grandchildren in 56 years? i guess theres nothing else to do on a deserted island...
[02:02:47] tank-man: we don't watch tv on your schedule dagmar
[02:03:18] tank-man: mythtv set us free from schedules
[02:03:45] poodyp: actually in seasons 16, 23, 44 and 48–52 they skip forward years at a time
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[02:05:24] sphery: just like Desperate Housewives...
[02:05:38] poodyp: basically because the actors got bored and quit, so they had to fast forward to their 'children' in order to write them off
[02:06:01] Dagmar: Well, I'm watching this one live because there's a problem with some transcievers here on campus
[02:06:06] Dagmar: So I'm "monitoring" the situation
[02:06:17] sphery: they're far more likely to quit because ABC won't pay them what they want
[02:06:39] Dagmar: sphery; For what they did in Seasons 1 & 2 (and part of three) they deserve a good BEATING
[02:07:05] Dagmar: The way they pulled bullshit through a wheel and made it into something sensible during 4 tho... That's just crazy even for science fiction standards.
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[02:24:54] dashcloud: hi, any idea why it's showing a conflict with two shows back-to-back on the same network?
[02:25:35] sphery: dashcloud: what are start and end times?
[02:25:55] J-e-f-f-A: dashcloud: only one tuner and you've extended the end time?
[02:26:19] sphery: dashcloud: pastebin the output of mythbackend --printsched and I can tell you exactly
[02:26:20] dashcloud: J-e-f-f-A: that seems to have been it- I refreshed and it seems to have been sorted out
[02:27:14] dashcloud: I feel really stupid now- thanks for the help anyway
[02:27:37] poodyp: shouldn't an extended record time be cancelled in the event of a conflict?
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[02:29:33] J-e-f-f-A: !seen high-rez
[02:29:33] MythLogBot: high-rez is here and has been idle for 1 hour 32 minutes 51 seconds
[02:30:44] J-e-f-f-A: poodyp: Depends... if it's got a higher priority than the other program I would think not! ;-) (even if it had the same priority...)
[02:31:33] poodyp: ah
[02:32:35] poodyp: I just remember it saying something like that in the settings menu when I set myth to record a little extra
[02:33:55] J-e-f-f-A: poodyp: Think about it – you'd be pretty mad if you scheduled the ball game to be exetend by 30 mins because you were working, and when you got home it cut off at the normal time because of a conflict... kinda defats the whole purpose of the setting.
[02:34:14] J-e-f-f-A: 'extended' even...  ;-)
[02:36:17] poodyp: yeah, but I don't watch sports, and I'd be equally annoyed if it didn't record a show just because one channel has a tendency to run their shows a little late and I need to extend recording 20 seconds some of the time
[02:36:25] poodyp: also isn't that what mythextend is for?
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[02:39:08] J-e-f-f-A: poodyp: Yeah, but last I knew it had not been updated for 0.21 — but it may be now – haven't looked into it in a few months now, an not for myself, for someone else in the list.  ;-)
[02:39:41] poodyp: oh
[02:42:29] poodyp: will myth drop an entire show just because the first one overlaps by 20 seconds? cuz that's what the dvr from my cable company does and it's a pain in the behind
[02:43:37] Anduin: poodyp: Yes, unlike most from the cable company though, you can easily/cheaply buy more tuners
[02:44:48] Anduin: poodyp: if the schedule is correct and you overrecord by 20 seconds then it will not (it will just ignore that overrecord)
[02:46:30] poodyp: ah, so it will drop the 20 seconds extra to record the next show?
[02:48:19] Anduin: poodyp: if the 20 seconds is the result of you telling it to, if it is part of the actual schedule info, no
[02:48:48] poodyp: oh I see
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[02:50:36] poodyp: more tuners is easy but unfortunately about 70% of the stuff I watch is non broadcast
[02:51:21] wagnerrp: well if you were recording broadcast, the whole overlap thing wouldnt even be an issue
[02:51:47] wagnerrp: you wouldnt need multiple tuners to manage that
[02:51:48] Anduin: well, may be less of one
[02:52:16] wagnerrp: multirec would just make multiple recordings of the same program
[02:53:49] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: if he's in the US (appears to be), then multirec isn't going to do much imho, unless it also allows to recordings to record the same stream...
[02:54:34] wagnerrp: 'same program', meaning same program stream inside transport stream
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[02:55:33] J-e-f-f-A: Ok, so if he scheduled two programs back-to-back, with one extented by 10 minutes, the 2nd would still record with multirec enabled? Cool.
[02:55:48] wagnerrp: i believe so, yes
[02:56:08] wagnerrp: anyway, multirec is a lot more useful if you get your broadcast stations over cable
[02:56:55] wagnerrp: NBC and ABC come in on one stream, CBS FOX and CW on another
[02:57:52] Anduin: depending on how lucky you are with each multiplex
[02:59:12] J-e-f-f-A: I just get ATSC OTA HD... so the only a couple of channels have sub-channels, and most of which I wouldn't watch usually (One pbs station has 2 channels, another has 4.)
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[03:00:29] poodyp: hopefully drivers for the hvr-2250 will be out soon and I'll get one of those
[03:02:19] Anduin: I think many of us are hoping the same thing, several months has been the usual answer, for several months (I don't follow it that closely, figure it will show up in here when it does)
[03:03:29] wagnerrp: the problem is that most of the people looking to get one have already moved onto other devices that are already available
[03:03:46] wagnerrp: i think the only reason i might want one at this point is if my 150s start to fail
[03:03:51] J-e-f-f-A: (Like the HDHomeRun) ;-)
[03:04:07] wagnerrp: but those will probably end up getting replaced with HDPVRs eventually
[03:07:06] poodyp: It's not so important to me that I'd get something else
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[03:10:10] wagnerrp: i had some show on a different multiplex i wanted to record, so i finally just broke down and bought an HDHR when newegg had a black friday deal on it
[03:10:34] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: How much?
[03:10:40] wagnerrp: $110 i think
[03:10:51] wagnerrp: it was like $50 off
[03:11:03] J-e-f-f-A: *nice*... I paid like $139 for mine at Micro Center on sale...
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[03:13:08] wagnerrp: if/when that multirec patch gets added into subversion, ill be able to record everything simultaneously
[03:13:36] phunyguy: this is odd
[03:13:37] wagnerrp: all three multiplexes i pick up unencrypted anyway
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[03:13:44] phunyguy: every once in a while on a reboot my cards change device names
[03:13:57] phunyguy: /dev/video0 and /dev/video1
[03:13:57] wagnerrp: yeah, that will happen
[03:14:01] phunyguy: how to cure?
[03:14:05] J-e-f-f-A: phunyguy: check out "udev rules"
[03:14:07] wagnerrp: udev manages all that stuff
[03:14:09] phunyguy: it wrecks the setup
[03:14:15] phunyguy: ok.
[03:14:16] phunyguy: thanks
[03:14:20] wagnerrp: those two cards are on two different sources?
[03:14:28] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: ha! beat you that time... ;-) (I was paying attention that time)
[03:14:28] phunyguy: yeah
[03:14:41] phunyguy: one is OTA (HD) and one is Dish Network
[03:15:04] wagnerrp: ah, i wouldnt even notice if my 150s had ever flipped
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[03:22:43] DavidFreeman: Hi. Anybody here with a KWorld ATSC 110 Hybrid card? In my most recent Myth installation, I experienced a new variation of the "roaming inputs" weirdness. The outermost input will now only do analog, and the innermost input will now do only QAM. I currently have each input configured as a separate card --V4L analog and DTV DVB, respectively. I really liked that patch from about a year and a half ago that provided a config
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[03:30:05] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: I would notice if my ivtv tuners flipped... since they're connected to dish network STB's... and each have specific channel-change scripts... ;-)
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[03:37:17] Remedial: Does anyones PIP work?
[03:37:58] tank-man: never tried
[03:38:35] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: I haven't tried it in a long wile... I'll try it now on my 'prod' backend, which is 0.21-fixes from a week or two ago.
[03:39:09] wagnerrp: whats the key to start pip?
[03:39:31] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Um... well, it just segfaulted on me... ;-) DOH! ;-)
[03:39:42] tank-man: useless feature with a pvr imo
[03:39:51] Remedial: wagnerrp: V
[03:39:54] J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, I haven't used it in ages... ;-)
[03:40:55] Remedial: My PIP shows another "copy" of the input already showing on the main screen.
[03:41:03] wagnerrp: 'y' doesnt seem to be doing anything
[03:41:20] Remedial: If I time shift, it feels like PIP.
[03:41:29] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Pull up the menu with "M", then select it from there.
[03:42:24] wagnerrp: dont see an option for it
[03:42:37] Remedial: wagnerrp: <shift> y switches between inputs
[03:43:10] wagnerrp: yep, not doing anything
[03:43:20] J-e-f-f-A: Well, PIP causes a segmentation frault for me on 0.21-fixes 19241 – but I'm not bothered as I almost never use LiveTV, and never use PIP.
[03:43:46] Remedial: wagnerrp: Are you recording on the second input?
[03:43:58] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: You have to be in LiveTV too...
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[03:47:47] J-e-f-f-A: Ugh... looks like my antenna got whacked- signal strength is horrible today... ATSC recordings are failing... DOH!
[03:48:27] iamlindoro: E_MUSTNOTMISSLOST
[03:48:39] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: OTA has always brought me to tears
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[03:49:39] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Well, the antenna's been up there and fine for a year or more now... Although we do have about 1' of snow out there right now, I wonder if it's high enough on my roof to be touching the antenna and affecting the signal... humm....
[03:49:40] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: works, then it doesn't — argh
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[03:50:08] sphery: J-e-f-f-A_: sounds like a job for a flamethrower
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[03:50:40] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Are you doing HiDef?
[03:50:47] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: It should improve in ~30 days...  ;-) I might even have to attenuate my signal, as I've got a 75-mile anteanna for a signal that's 25 miles away... ;-)
[03:50:51] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A, My afternoon project while not working at work: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6158
[03:51:12] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Yeah, ATSC OTA HD.
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[03:52:15] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: OOh, baby! ;-) I have often thought of a feature like that...  ;-) Nice!
[03:52:32] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Last I tried was with a hd3000 card, What are you using?
[03:52:55] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A, I cut commercials and move everything into MV, this saves me massive headache
[03:53:10] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: I started with a HD-3000, added a HD-5500, and 1250, then switched to a HD-HomeRun.  ;-)
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[03:54:05] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Your favorite?
[03:54:06] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: I've currently got my HD-5500 in a test backend fooling around (only a little bit right now) with trunk... Starting to do little things with the mythlcdserver at the moment, more will come with time...
[03:55:25] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: I think the HDHR is my favorite – more-or-less plug & play. When I got the HD-3000, it was a real pain, but now the 3000 and 5500 are plug & play too – unless udev 'helps' by moving your SD video devices around on nearly every boot...
[03:55:47] sphery: iamlindoro: so are they ever going to show the last 3 eps of Daisies or should I just watch what I've got?
[03:56:01] iamlindoro: sphery, There's not been any announcement that I know of :(
[03:56:17] sphery: guess maybe that's their plan for marketing the DVD's/BD's
[03:56:17] iamlindoro: Youprobably ought to just watch
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[03:56:51] iamlindoro: That would be pretty dickish
[03:57:00] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: I think I did have that udev problem, hence the tears.
[03:57:32] sphery: iamlindoro: yeah, it /does/ sounds exactly like something a studio executive would do
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[03:58:41] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Yeah, I didn't have any issues until I added the 1250 into the mix, then udev decided to play 'video card roulette' with the devices on every boot... And at the time I didn't fight with it and create rules, so I just fixed it 'manually' in mythtv-setup and my channel change scripts each time it changed. Now I'd just create the correct udev rules... .
[03:59:07] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: Acctually, could you describe this "moving around" thing in detail?
[03:59:20] Dagmar: If I knew more of what you were talking about I could probably hack up a fgix
[03:59:24] Dagmar: s/fgix/fix/;
[04:00:13] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Well, I had a PVR-500, PVR-250, HD-3000, HD-5500 and 1250 in the same box. Until I added the 1250, things seemed to (maybe by pure luck?) stay in the same places all the time... ie...
[04:00:53] J-e-f-f-A: PVR-500 was V0/V1, and PVR-250 was V2 — HD3000 was V3 and DVB0 – HD-5500 was V4 and DVB1.
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[04:02:24] J-e-f-f-A: When I added the 1250, udev starting detecting them in different orders, and they would get assigned devices in the order they were detected, which would totally goof me up if the HD tuners somehow became VIDEO0/1/2, etc... Or if the 500 and 250 were swapped, then my channel change scripts changed the wrong STB...
[04:03:41] Dagmar: Okay. I gotcha
[04:03:49] Dagmar: Gonna smoke a cig, back shortly
[04:04:00] Dagmar: I just wanted to be sure that was the problem I thought you were hvaing
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[04:04:20] tank-man: current udev makes a /dev/v4l/by-path/some_unique_name_with_lots_of_numbers
[04:04:32] tank-man: that is a symlink to /dev/video
[04:05:19] tank-man: the name will be the same all the time
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[04:06:31] J-e-f-f-A: tank-man: Yeah, I finally broke down and learned some udev rules 'vodoo' when I added a Crystalfontz 634 USB LCD display, and it would flip-flop with my USB-> Serial adapter I use for X10 control... Now the LCD is always accessible as /dev/lcd and the X10 port is always available as /dev/x10, regardless of the /dev/ttyUSB* device...
[04:07:33] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Do you think digital signals will improve in February?
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[04:07:53] wagnerrp: Remedial: they should
[04:08:01] wagnerrp: theyre operating at very low power currently
[04:08:04] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: It should – from what I understand, they're currently running at reduced power as to not interfere with Analog.
[04:08:28] wagnerrp: after they cut off analog, they should switch the digital feeds over to their primary channel and crank up the power
[04:08:40] poodyp: if Obama doesn't roll over and push the changeover again
[04:09:10] wagnerrp: they were all temporarily given control of a second frequency, but as J-e-f-f-A mentioned, they have to be low power so as to not interfere with other markets
[04:09:19] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: And some (many?) channels will be moving their digital broadcast channels from UHF to VHF too...
[04:09:50] iamlindoro: If he's going to be stopping torture, closing illegal prisons, and improving foreign relations, he can push off the Digital transition until universal heat death for all I care
[04:10:06] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Hmmm, Because I could have sworn that the Digital Signal used to improve during major telecast: Superbowl, Worls Series, etc
[04:10:18] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: For instance, Fox 25 here in Boston is digital channel 25.1, but broadcast on Channel 31
[04:13:06] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: I always figured that a major sporting event was sort of like knowing that the boss was coming — the engineers made certain everything was working well
[04:13:40] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: hehe... Are you doing ATSC OTA now?
[04:14:03] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: I gave up
[04:14:43] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A the signals kept going from beautiful to aweful
[04:14:49] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Take a look at tvfool.com – shows what direction what stations are, and how good your signal reception is likely to be.
[04:14:59] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: A good antenna makes a HUGE difference too...
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[04:16:02] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: "Rabbit Ears" or a crappy "amplified" indoor antenna don't work that well IMHO.
[04:16:24] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Thanks I had a pretty good map of signals — not from tvfool but...
[04:17:06] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: I can see some of the towers too, sdo reception should not be trouble
[04:17:12] Remedial: *so
[04:18:03] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: But I did use a several crappy antennae
[04:18:06] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Yeah, previously I was using antennaweb.org but tvfool is WAY better.  ;-)
[04:18:42] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Yup that's the one I was using
[04:19:02] Remedial: So what antenna should I buy?
[04:20:00] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Well, that's a good question... I'm using a "UHF 75" from Radio Shack – about $30 iirc... with no amplifier, pointed right at Boston, and I get every Boston station pretty good, should be perfect mid-feb...
[04:20:06] J-e-f-f-A: (with no amp at all)
[04:20:29] Dagmar: Just know that a coat hanger with a ball of tinfoil on the end is not what you want.
[04:21:21] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Although with some stations going 'back' to VHF, I'll have to put up the UHF/VHF antenna instead. (The one up there now is only UHF)  ;-)
[04:22:06] wagnerrp: Dagmar: that only works for cables right?
[04:22:18] poodyp: Dagmar: is the ball of foil supposed to act as a ground plane?
[04:23:26] Dagmar: Damned if I know.
[04:23:34] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: How far from Bean town are you?
[04:23:45] Dagmar: The hillbillies who live in Tennessee have come up with all sorts of crazy things to "help" antennas.
[04:24:09] Dagmar: I still see the "cell phone antenna booster" stickers being sold here and there.
[04:24:22] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: I'm about 26 miles away... and about 16–20 from the various transmitters... ;-)
[04:24:23] poodyp: wow
[04:24:29] poodyp: I haven't seen one of those in a while
[04:25:11] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Oh, wait, those don't really work??? Crap, I stocked up on them before they sold out!!!
[04:25:32] Dagmar: They could work, in theory, if they were actually connected to the antenna
[04:25:44] wagnerrp: the antenna isnt run through the battery?
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[04:25:59] Dagmar: ...but if it were that bloody simple the antenna design would be built into batteries by now to be sure.
[04:26:18] Dagmar: The battery is where the vibrator is on a lot of phones.
[04:26:22] wagnerrp: see... now youre just being too logical
[04:26:26] Dagmar: Don't go thinking it's "just" a battery
[04:26:39] aegis: <aegis> If I want to use firewire to control my Verizon STB, can it go through my frontend? My backend is in my basement...
[04:26:40] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: hehe... just kidding. It's just a scam I know... ;-)
[04:27:29] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: Umm... well, the stb should be feeding into Myth...
[04:27:38] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A, Dagmar, poodyp: I'll ask you to please stop making fun of me wife. Yes she has a few booster on her phones
[04:28:04] poodyp: just one wasn't cutting it?
[04:28:26] aegis: J-e-f-f-A: yeah... into the mythserver... i'm just not sure how to get the firewire connection between the two since they a geographically separated.
[04:28:27] Remedial: Hey they came free withthe phone — what could it hurt — right
[04:28:29] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Tell her that if she puts one on her forehead she won't need to carry the phone anymore, she'll just have to touch her ear to answer a call... ;-)
[04:28:38] Dagmar: What could it hurt?
[04:28:43] Dagmar: It could make you look like a fool.
[04:28:54] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: very funny
[04:29:35] Remedial: Dagmar: Does that hurt? I wouldn't know :)
[04:29:38] J-e-f-f-A: Remedial: Hey, just joking, hope you're not taking it personally.
[04:29:52] poodyp: it might hurt pulling it off
[04:30:05] Remedial: J-e-f-f-A: Not even close
[04:30:18] Dagmar: Nah they usually don't have a very good adhesive on them.
[04:30:36] Dagmar: It's just dumb luck that no one at Best Buy has ever tried to sell me one
[04:30:51] poodyp: http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/
[04:30:57] J-e-f-f-A: I've heard they actually work the best if you put them over the phone's LCD screen. ;-)
[04:31:00] poodyp: nothing wrong with aluminum foil and coat hangers
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[04:31:19] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: I think you're confusing them with a "cell phone privacy screen"
[04:32:03] J-e-f-f-A: poodyp: That antenna is actually very good, but Dollar-store baking racks work better for a rear reflector.
[04:32:24] Dagmar: Yep, although it's hard to get them as cheap
[04:32:33] Dagmar: That looks like a reasonable design to me.
[04:33:14] J-e-f-f-A: I dunno – 2 racks for $1... 4 for $2 — the roll of foil probably cost more than that... ;-) (although you're not using the whole roll)  ;-)
[04:33:40] Dagmar: People who own homes tend to already have a roll of tinfoil around
[04:34:05] Dagmar: It's us apartment-dwelling savages that are caught short when we need things like tinfoil and silverware.
[04:34:46] J-e-f-f-A: Foil? Not much around my house really... it doesn't agree with Microwave ovens... ;-) Now we've got plenty of cling-wrap... ;-)
[04:35:04] Dagmar: Exactly.
[04:35:08] wagnerrp: poodyp: i have to wonder just how much that servo motor the antenna is attached to costs
[04:35:22] Dagmar: wagnerrp: I think that one he already had actually
[04:35:34] poodyp: I've always got a roll of heavy duty and regular foil on hand
[04:35:34] wagnerrp: so, most people dont
[04:35:46] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Looks like a standard antenna rotor — can be bought for roughly $40 if you shop around.
[04:35:54] poodyp: never know when you're gonna need a shield from the mind rays
[04:35:56] wagnerrp: if you build a directional antenna, you better have one, or hope the transmitters are all in the same direction
[04:36:49] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: If you spend big $$$ you can get one that's controllable by computer that will turn to the exact direciton you specify.
[04:37:26] wagnerrp: well if you cant specify direction, then its not a servo
[04:38:00] J-e-f-f-A: Usually they're controlled by a set-top controller with a knob to point in the right direction- then it moves the motor in the base and the motor on the antenna at the same time and stops when it hits the pointer on the controller.
[04:38:04] wagnerrp: servo implies a feedback loop on the controller such that you can specify an angular position
[04:38:22] J-e-f-f-A: The only thing keeping them in sync is the AC frequency that both motors are running on.
[04:38:48] J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, it's not a servo as there's no positional feedback — unless you pay the 'big bucks' for one that has that functionality...
[04:39:24] poodyp: actually with a servo all the directional ability is in the controller
[04:39:59] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: You should look through the antenna aisle at wal-mart or something sometime
[04:40:12] Dagmar: I know a couple of hams who absolutely refuse to even look in that direction.
[04:40:25] Dagmar: Places will sell antennas that sit atop a TV and have a knob on them that you can turn.
[04:40:28] Dagmar: ...which does nothing.
[04:40:32] J-e-f-f-A: poodyp: Yeah, but his point is that with a servo, there's a feedback mechanism to sense where it's positioned to.
[04:41:43] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Well, they do a little... but not really anything useful. More-or-less switching various filters in & out — mostly a marketing gimmic...
[04:43:11] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: So, yeah, you're right — it's not a Servo, it's known as an "Antenna Rotor" – and the 'standard' ones have no feedback whatsoever. But they're AC motors that are geared down something like 60:1, and there's a motor with the same gearing in the 'controller'...
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[04:43:53] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: when you turn the positioning knob on the controller, it turns on the ac power to move both motors in the direction to match the needle, then stops when they match.
[04:44:50] wagnerrp: that seems prone to failure
[04:44:56] J-e-f-f-A: And they can (and often do) get out of sync a bit... and have to be "re-calibrated' by going all the way to one stop, then the other, then they're fine for a while... ;-)
[04:45:21] aegis: so how would you guys suggest making that connect via firewire from a tv, stb, and frontend on one floor and the backend server on a different floor?
[04:45:36] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Yeah, they turn pretty slow too, it probably takes about a minute to go from one stop to the other... (~360degrees)
[04:45:47] wagnerrp: aegis: put the STB down with the backend
[04:45:53] poodyp: aegis: run a slave backend on the frontend?
[04:46:02] wagnerrp: if youre using the STB for mythtv, you cannot use it for anything else
[04:46:07] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: ^^ yep, or ^^ that too... Dang you guys are on the ball tonight! ;-)
[04:46:33] aegis: poodyp: Didn't think of that one!
[04:46:45] wagnerrp: mythtv is a jealous bastard, if it doesnt have full control, it gets really pissy
[04:46:45] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: Are you doing HD on that FIoS box?
[04:47:10] aegis: wagnerrp: Hmmm but since I can't get all the channels via firewire that the STB has, wouldn't that be a waste?
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[04:47:30] aegis: J-e-f-f-A: Yes, I have HD on the FIoS box
[04:47:34] wagnerrp: aegis: that just means you have to pick up the rest of the channels over analog
[04:47:46] wagnerrp: either with a standard definition capture card, or an HDPVR
[04:48:11] wagnerrp: if you want to use an STB for traditional tv viewing, just rent another STB
[04:48:21] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: Ugh... Well, to get that into Myth you'll need a Hauppauge HD-PVR – but that's not formally supported until 0.22 gets released...
[04:48:48] aegis: wagnerrp: so would I just be better off connecting soley to the tuner?
[04:49:14] aegis: J-e-f-f-A: ahhh... thanks...
[04:49:18] wagnerrp: aegis: absolutely not, unless you have an HDPVR, the capture will be standard definition
[04:49:25] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: And actually, It's still experimental support... but is working quite well from what I understand... [I don't personally have one, but many here do]
[04:49:36] wagnerrp: and even if you have an HDPVR, its better to grab the unmodified digital feed off the STB
[04:49:49] wagnerrp: it will be of slightly higher quality, and MUCH easier to play back
[04:50:10] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: Yeah, but FIoS isn't putting it out the firewire port, at least not in the clear...
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[04:50:35] wagnerrp: well if nothing else, you should at least get channel control
[04:50:44] wagnerrp: eliminating the need for a blaster
[04:51:51] ** J-e-f-f-A happens to like his IR Blasters... ;-) (Of course, that's because he created them himself... ;-) ) **
[04:52:38] aegis: uggggh... seems like there is no great option.
[04:53:01] wagnerrp: thats the way the providers want it
[04:53:08] wagnerrp: give you more reason to buy their DVR
[04:53:10] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: That's why I don't have HD from Cable or FIoS... Just OTA HD now...
[04:53:35] aegis: J-e-f-f-A: Did you have to install an exterior antenna?
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[04:54:20] J-e-f-f-A: aegis: I probably didn't have to, but I did... I get very consistent signal with an antenna on my roof. (I own my house) And I don't need an amplifier that way either...
[04:54:45] strex-work: anyone here useing the new mythdora 10.21? if so can you pls tell me if the output of 'lircd -H ? |grep iguana' comes back as true?
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[04:56:55] jams: strex-work- one moment
[04:58:49] iamlindoro: kormoc, Do you have a second to look at a SQL problem for me?
[04:59:11] kormoc: iamlindoro, sure
[04:59:40] iamlindoro: Ok, keeping in mind this is obviously totally wrong right now, just brainstorming:
[04:59:42] iamlindoro: http://rafb.net/p/Y3v2P619.html
[05:00:08] strex-work: thanks jams
[05:00:14] iamlindoro: Idea is to move everything from recordedmarkup (which uses chanid and starttime) into filemarkup (which uses filename)
[05:00:20] jams: strex-work- it's not in the list
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[05:00:42] iamlindoro: kormoc, So I need a bindvalue for filename, but to take all the contents of mark, offset, and type directly... does that make any sense?
[05:00:59] strex-work: jams: thanks, that will help with the troubleshooting later..
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[05:03:26] kormoc: iamlindoro, where are you thinking of getting the filename? recorded.basename?
[05:03:56] iamlindoro: kormoc, Well it is actually coming from the code, which is why I sort of need it to be a bindvalue
[05:03:57] kormoc: or do you mean to pass it in via SELECT :FILENAME, mark, offset?
[05:04:10] kormoc: so why not SELECT :FILENAME, mark, offset?
[05:05:09] iamlindoro: Maybe there's something I don't get, but recordedmarkup has no filename
[05:05:21] iamlindoro: recordedmarkup has mark, offset, type, chanid, and starttime
[05:05:30] iamlindoro: filemarkup has mark, offset, type, and filename
[05:05:32] kormoc: sure, so you want the query to end up like, SELECT 'filenamehere', mark, blah ?
[05:05:53] iamlindoro: If you mean what I think you mean, yes :)
[05:06:21] iamlindoro: I want to fill all values in filemarkup with a filename I pass it, using all the mark, type, and offset values from recordedmarkup for a given starttime and chanid
[05:06:27] kormoc: Aye
[05:06:51] kormoc: so just select :FILENAME, blah, blah and bind in :FILENAME to whatever, just as if it was in the where clause
[05:07:15] kormoc: SQL's dirty little secret is, it's all just string manipulation with a pretty layer around it
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[05:09:37] iamlindoro: kormoc, Does this look like what you mean? http://rafb.net/p/5ewerq83.html
[05:10:06] kormoc: aye
[05:10:26] iamlindoro: Cool! Thanks, I'll give it a go now
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[05:11:00] kormoc: basically all .bindValue does it look for that string token and replace it with a filtered value, escaping ' and " and the like
[05:11:29] Dagmar: Off-topic... Anyone here know of any hardware-based "secure" disk erasure products
[05:11:30] Dagmar: ?
[05:12:22] kormoc: Sadly, I haven't. It seems to be commonly held as a boot disk is easy enough
[05:13:01] Dagmar: Yeah, I'm gonna have to tell my boss he's out of luck if he wants a hardware solution.
[05:13:22] Dagmar: I was doing it before with some old hardware we had here. I've still got hardwre like that at home, but we've got to sanitize about 600 drives
[05:15:27] kormoc: Dagmar, something like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817147066 might make it a little less painful...
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[05:16:04] iamlindoro: kormoc, it didn't seem to like that one
[05:16:06] Dagmar: Not really, I think they're wanting something "sealed"
[05:16:17] Dagmar: I can sure as hell *build* something that would do the trick
[05:16:30] kormoc: iamlindoro, ooh? Could be qt specific then... let me look at their docs quick
[05:16:53] iamlindoro: kormoc, Hmmm, it's possible I've once again swapped recstartts where it ought to be startts I suppose
[05:18:10] iamlindoro: kormoc, DOH, No, I think it's me
[05:18:31] iamlindoro: heh, data = offset
[05:18:40] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: and 600 drives??? Yikes...
[05:18:51] kormoc: iamlindoro, hehe
[05:19:01] iamlindoro: kormoc, One calls it one, the other the other, d'oh
[05:19:03] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: Yeah, and it doesn't help they're all freaking SCSI, too.
[05:19:14] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: If you don't need to save the discs, there are companys that offer destruction/shredding services... but at a cost...
[05:19:15] Dagmar: Doing a DoD wipe on them will take about two hours or more apiece
[05:19:17] kormoc: youch
[05:20:01] Dagmar: Man, this is a rather sizeable research Uni. I'm *sure* that if I were to ask around I could find a department that has some sort of furnace we could melt the things down in, but I suspect they're wanting to donate the cleaned drives somewgere.
[05:20:15] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Humm... a SCSI low-level format command would probably do the trick... at least it USED TO whipe the entire disk, but maybe not to the specs you're required to do though... DOH!
[05:20:25] kormoc: http://www.ssiworld.com/watch/watch-en.htm
[05:20:35] Dagmar: A low-level format will DEFINITELY wipe a disk, but it's not what's needed.
[05:20:46] kormoc: they have hard drive shreding :)
[05:20:48] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: As to how to do it with software, that I know _well_.
[05:21:02] Dagmar: kormoc: Yeah I found a company earlier that makes something I'd *never* want to get my hand caught in.
[05:21:11] Dagmar: It can chew up full height drives.
[05:21:38] kormoc: yeah, they have a few videos of their shreders chewing up full sized trucks
[05:21:56] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Yeah, a low-level format would wipe it pretty well, but theoretically it may still have some recoverable data... Wheras writing every sector of the disk with random data a few times over would pretty well obliterate all possibility of any recovery... ;-)
[05:22:26] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: No, don't even bother saying "theoretical".
[05:22:37] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: hehe... ;-)
[05:22:45] Dagmar: I've had the discussion with about twenty people this week about the freaking "Gutmann protocol"
[05:22:52] Dagmar: All because of that damn news artcle
[05:23:38] Dagmar: In *1996* Peter Guttman said point blank that a single overwrite with zeros is going to make a disk just about as unrecoverable as unrecoverable gets just because of the complex way stuff is stored on modern disks (modern for _1996_ mind you)
[05:23:51] Dagmar: People are STILL figuring this out on their own and acting like no one's ever said it before
[05:24:26] iamlindoro: kormoc, That did it, perfect, thanks so much
[05:24:33] kormoc: iamlindoro, you're quite welcome
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[05:24:59] Dagmar: I could easily list out the causes of failure for secure data erasure, but I'm not gonna because i'm tired of saying it
[05:25:26] Dagmar: I'll just leave it at "The only problem of any significance remaining is that sometimes resetting HPA on the disk will require special tools"
[05:25:40] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: rotfl! ;-) Yeah, I hear ya.  ;-) The only truely secure way is complete destruction. ;-)
[05:26:27] Lexridge: as in a sledgehammer or hdd grinder. ;)
[05:29:51] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Did you see the Linux Format article about "Cold Boot Attacks" – recovering data from RAM from a cold boot...
[05:30:32] Dagmar: Yep.
[05:30:37] kormoc: liquid nitrogen cold
[05:30:43] Dagmar: It's not new information to me, either.
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[05:30:55] Dagmar: I might be working in a NOC but I have yet to stop keeping up to date on skullduggery.
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[05:31:42] Lexridge: Wasn't the Amiga able to do that?
[05:31:52] Lexridge: RAD disk, or something like that.
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[05:32:02] Dagmar: huh?
[05:32:09] J-e-f-f-A: Lexridge: That was a Ram disk that survived WARM boots.
[05:32:24] Dagmar: RAM is going to always survive a warm boot.
[05:32:40] Lexridge: yea, one could crash their amiga, and as long as you had the RAD disk mounted, it would survive.
[05:32:52] ** J-e-f-f-A hugs his Amigas... ;-) **
[05:33:10] Lexridge: Jeffa: I have had several. Loved those machines :)
[05:33:11] Dagmar: The current round of "cold boot attack" mechanisms being tossed about in the news tend to downplay the fact that if you don't nab that machine within *minutes* (or at least in under an hour) you're not recovering a damn thing
[05:33:30] Dagmar: By comparison, it's far far easier to recover data from a machine that was merely suspended
[05:33:53] Dagmar: ...cuz you can just open the damn thing, hose the chips down and take them out to put them in something you control.
[05:33:54] J-e-f-f-A: Lexridge: I still have my original 500 that I "bastardized' into a tower, an A4000 Toaster/Flyer, and an A1200 that I hacked a Laptop DVD-Rom into the side. ;-)
[05:34:28] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Yep, because they're still powered in suspend mode...
[05:35:14] Dagmar: Exactly.
[05:35:15] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: I just had a thought — it would probably be just as easy to grab a hibernate snapshot off a disk too...
[05:35:18] Lexridge: jeffa so you are familiar with the RAD disk. Cool!
[05:35:31] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: Snagging the hibernation file would be almost trivial
[05:36:02] Dagmar: There's only one thing that can stop that, and that's the module in some IBM hardware which there is *probably* a backdoor too that Iv'e just not been made privy to
[05:36:09] J-e-f-f-A: Lexridge: Oh yeah. I even converted some PC floppy disks to Amiga in 1990, but never got off my A$$ and put the schematic on Aminet... Was only 2 TTL chips too, including hardware no-click...
[05:36:34] Dagmar: THe motherboard and hard disk share a secret token that MUST be passed upon boot up or the drive will refuse to talk and just makes this little siren dee-doo-dee-doo-dee-doo noise.
[05:36:51] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Yeah, I think some of the newer lappys are doing encryption at the controller level too iirc...
[05:36:56] J-e-f-f-A: ^^ exactly.
[05:37:16] Dagmar: So if you steal someone's laptop with that on it, you can't even part it out like most laptop theieves do, or at least you can't part out the hard disk or the mainboard if the user put a password in
[05:37:33] Dagmar: The mainboard won't talk to any drive that doesn't have the chip and the token, and the drive is the same way
[05:37:58] Lexridge: jeffa: don't mean to sound like a ebay ad, but I have two A4000 68060 systems with Video Toasters which I would love to sell......or throw in the dumpster. Make me an offer if interested.
[05:38:04] Dagmar: I kinda get the feeling that a board swap might be enough to bypass it, but no one's paying me to find out
[05:38:15] J-e-f-f-A: Lexridge: Where are you located?
[05:38:19] Lexridge: WV
[05:38:29] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... I'm, in the Boston area...
[05:38:57] Lexridge: humm, I have friends who went to law school in Boston. Not too far actually.
[05:40:01] Lexridge: If you want to come and get them, I can give you 2 A4000s, 2 A2000 and maybe three VT cards.
[05:40:33] J-e-f-f-A: Lexridge: ps: I finally noticed your pm's...
[05:41:12] Lexridge: gawd, those were from a while ago, IIRC.
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[05:41:44] J-e-f-f-A: Not too bad... 15 mins ago!
[05:42:22] Lexridge: humm, really? Must have been a mistake on my behalf. Strange!
[05:42:50] J-e-f-f-A: hehe... ;-)
[05:43:00] Lexridge: I see it now. DUnno how that was a private msg.
[05:44:38] Lexridge: anyway, if you want them....you can have them. Either come and get them, or pay the shipping and you can have the whole lot. I'd love to see them go to a good home.
[05:44:45] J-e-f-f-A: I'll send you my email in a pm. ;-)
[05:44:51] Lexridge: ok
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[06:39:17] perilousapricot: dumb dumb question, but does anyone else have trouble with the 0.22 branch with the program guide borking up video playback when you close it?
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[06:42:14] kormoc: there is no 0.22 branch
[06:42:33] perilousapricot: ..
[06:42:36] perilousapricot: the trunk
[06:43:49] perilousapricot: there's some weirdness with going back and forth to the program guide, and I was wondering if that was a known issue
[06:44:04] sphery: what video renderer?
[06:44:08] perilousapricot: if not, I'll submit a bug report, but I don't want to waste everyone's time otherwise
[06:44:45] perilousapricot: sphery, that's a hard thing to answer. I have it set up to use XvMC, but I have an nvidia card..but nvidia hasn't compiled their driver for the new Xorg, so I'm just using the nv driver
[06:44:58] perilousapricot: I don't know if nv supports xvmc though
[06:45:02] perilousapricot: so it might be falling back to ffmpeg
[06:45:40] kormoc: it doesnt', and it might fall back to opengl
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[06:45:47] kormoc: and what new xorg doesn't it support?
[06:46:02] sphery: perilousapricot: and if it falls back to OpenGL, you're likely to have the problem you mentioned
[06:46:23] perilousapricot: the closed-source nvidia driver (nvidia-glx-173) isn't compiled for the Xorg that's shipping with jaunty
[06:46:29] sphery: perilousapricot: So, take XvMC out of your playback profile (if it really doesn't work) and put in a good renderer
[06:46:48] sphery: perilousapricot: My recommendation is to switch to (the default configuration of) Slim and try
[06:46:58] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Playback_profiles
[06:47:05] perilousapricot: sphery, I mean, it works great, I just wasn't touching it because, you know, if it doesn't work don't fix it, but I'll try and go back to the other one and see if it changes things real quick
[06:47:06] perilousapricot: one sec
[06:47:11] kormoc: could always compile the nvidia driver yourself as well, if you really want XvMC (and have a card that supports it)
[06:47:29] perilousapricot: kormoc, with what source?
[06:47:52] sphery: he means compile the nvidia driver interface kernel module
[06:48:00] kormoc: the nvidia driver from nvidia.com ships with the kernel module shim code that it will compile as part of it's install if it doesn't have a prebuilt one
[06:48:03] perilousapricot: the kernel interface isn't the problem
[06:48:11] perilousapricot: that's fine, and you can lsmod it okay
[06:48:20] perilousapricot: but they havn't compiled against the new xorg api
[06:48:29] kormoc: I'm running on 7.4
[06:48:31] ** kormoc shrugs **
[06:48:39] perilousapricot: the -180 series is close enough, but 173 hasn't been touched in a while
[06:48:57] kormoc: the 173 won't, as 180 is now marked stable
[06:49:18] perilousapricot: kormoc, unfortunately, the different numbered branches support different sets of nvidia hardware
[06:49:23] perilousapricot: and mine is only supported under 173
[06:49:40] kormoc: it's fairly doubtful they'll actually backport those api changes
[06:49:46] ** kormoc shrugs **
[06:49:55] perilousapricot: they said they were
[06:50:10] perilousapricot: but they wanted things to stabilize before they bothered with it
[06:50:52] kormoc: 7.4's api stablized september 23, 2008 when they released it and branched out 7.5, hard to get more stabler
[06:51:36] perilousapricot: I mean, I don't know the details personally, I'm just following a bug ticket I submitted that was updated today saying that thigs were stable enough for people get on their business
[06:53:26] perilousapricot: sphery, switching to the slim profile shows the same glitch
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[06:54:27] perilousapricot: sphery, the little preview in the program guide shows the correct video, but gets frozen
[06:55:08] perilousapricot: sphery, escaping out of the program guide shows the program again, but only in the area that's clipped by the old guide
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[06:58:38] sphery: perilousapricot: did you restart the frontend (and possibly X)
[06:58:55] perilousapricot: oh dumb me, do I need to restart the frontend?
[07:01:16] kormoc: can't hurt if things are wonky
[07:01:23] sphery: usually no, but as kormoc said
[07:01:41] sphery: and the particular wonkiness is why I'd just restart X
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[10:37:12] justinh: stupid blimmin managers & marketing people here, promising a customer something that no software has been written for
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[10:47:17] Benjie: xris, (also gbee, though he's not here): Fantastic job on the website – good work!
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[10:48:59] Benjie: I would add but one CSS rule: #content {margin:auto;}
[10:49:34] justinh: why?
[10:50:14] Benjie: Because if you have a large and large resolution screen, having to read the whole website off of the left of it is a bit tiring on the ole neck
[10:50:26] justinh: awww
[10:50:57] Benjie: :P
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[11:18:31] justinh: and today, for your listening pleasure we have 'The Wicker Man' soundtrack
[11:19:01] justinh: oops. did I say pleasure? I meant 'annoyance'
[11:20:10] AlmightyOatmeal: hah
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[11:30:58] dustybin: I got a new job!!! Start on Monday! Its only 5 minutes down the road, nice people, nice work, money isnt too great but its better than signing on :D
[11:31:24] AlmightyOatmeal: congrads dustybin
[11:31:34] dustybin: :D
[11:31:42] dustybin: iamlindoro will be proud
[11:31:54] directhex: what does it involve?
[11:31:56] AlmightyOatmeal: i wish i shared your luck, but as long as someone has the luck thats all that matters
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[11:32:34] dustybin: directhex: its a print shop, they print peoples business cards, letter heads, comp slips, etc. I will be preparing the artwork for print
[11:33:07] dustybin: most of the day will be spent on indesign / quarkxpress
[11:33:18] AlmightyOatmeal: nice
[11:37:26] GreyFoxx: dustybin: Congrats, that's great!
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[11:38:52] dustybin: :D
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[11:41:48] directhex: a working man. an adult!
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[11:45:22] ** mzb_d800 kicks his walking stick across the room **
[11:45:44] justinh: wooo congratulations!
[11:45:56] justinh: now you're qualified to moan about maligerers :)
[11:51:05] Benjie: Good work dustybin. Laters all.
[11:51:12] Benjie (Benjie!n=crayzee@jemjienet.jemjie.com) has quit ("Argh!!")
[11:51:48] justinh: hmm. panasonic 3CCD HD camcorder less than 300 quids at costco
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[11:53:35] directhex: for making homemade HD porno!
[11:56:49] mzb_d800: I guess that'd show _ALL_ the wrinkles? ;)
[11:57:25] phunyguy: eeeeeeeeeeewwwe!!!!
[11:57:55] mzb_d800: :))
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[11:58:47] phunyguy: argh
[11:58:50] phunyguy: cold in here
[11:58:57] phunyguy: its too cold for GA/FL
[11:59:14] phunyguy: my heater has been running constantly since 1- pm
[11:59:18] phunyguy: err
[11:59:19] phunyguy: 10*
[11:59:37] phunyguy: ACK!
[11:59:39] phunyguy: 27 out
[11:59:42] AlmightyOatmeal: lol
[11:59:48] AlmightyOatmeal: we haven't hit 27 in like a month
[11:59:55] phunyguy: high or low?
[12:00:05] AlmightyOatmeal: we're lucky to have a high above 0
[12:00:12] phunyguy: C: or F
[12:00:14] phunyguy: err
[12:00:16] phunyguy: C or F
[12:00:19] AlmightyOatmeal: F
[12:00:19] phunyguy: lol @ C:
[12:00:23] AlmightyOatmeal: lol
[12:00:24] AlmightyOatmeal: nice
[12:00:26] phunyguy: thats what i was afraid off
[12:00:31] phunyguy: of
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[12:00:34] phunyguy: F.
[12:00:38] AlmightyOatmeal: i live in the middle-of-nowhere wisconsin
[12:00:43] phunyguy: that would do it
[12:00:45] AlmightyOatmeal: :P
[12:00:47] phunyguy: I feel your pain
[12:00:53] phunyguy: i grew up in Massachusetts
[12:00:55] phunyguy: :|
[12:01:30] AlmightyOatmeal: i was born in the soviet union, living here in wisconsin is like living in a tropical paradise to me ;)
[12:01:39] AlmightyOatmeal: at least here the snow melts!
[12:01:40] AlmightyOatmeal: :D
[12:02:11] AlmightyOatmeal: actually i was 4 when i left the ussr so i really don't remember much except there was usually alot of snow
[12:03:30] phunyguy: hah
[12:03:31] phunyguy: nice
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[12:03:51] phunyguy: we got hit pretty hard with snow I when I was back in MA this past christmas
[12:03:59] phunyguy: over 2 feet
[12:04:03] phunyguy: i was snowed in
[12:04:09] AlmightyOatmeal: yeah
[12:04:20] AlmightyOatmeal: we've had storms here that dump like 1 ft in 6 hours
[12:04:21] phunyguy: my poor southern car
[12:04:34] AlmightyOatmeal: lol, i drive a wisconsin tank — tweaked ford explorer
[12:04:44] phunyguy: got a 2001 Monte Carlo lowered with a body trim kit on it
[12:04:51] AlmightyOatmeal: lol, rice burner :D
[12:04:55] phunyguy: Monte Carlo SS rather
[12:05:07] phunyguy: it was a free car
[12:05:11] phunyguy: and thats not rice.
[12:05:13] AlmightyOatmeal: not bad
[12:05:15] phunyguy: its not japanese
[12:05:18] AlmightyOatmeal: :P
[12:05:21] phunyguy: its american
[12:05:26] phunyguy: 2.8 Liter V6
[12:05:28] phunyguy: 3.8*
[12:05:34] phunyguy: i hate typing in the dark
[12:05:45] phunyguy: but yeah
[12:05:48] phunyguy: it doesnt like snow
[12:06:15] phunyguy: i pulled up to the curb, stopped... then felt teh car slide sideways and the snowbank took ownership.
[12:06:26] phunyguy: didnt move from there for a week
[12:06:30] phunyguy: .....couldn't.
[12:06:39] oobe: hey i hate typing in the dark to
[12:07:14] AlmightyOatmeal: lol
[12:07:30] phunyguy: THEN the plow came through
[12:07:32] phunyguy: :(
[12:07:47] phunyguy: i had the drivers TOP 1/4 sticking out
[12:07:58] phunyguy: could see a window and half a door.
[12:08:08] phunyguy: i woulda snapped pics but the camera was in the car.
[12:08:12] AlmightyOatmeal: lol
[12:08:29] phunyguy: then it was 45 the next day so i got free.
[12:09:07] ** AlmightyOatmeal yearns for 45 F weather **
[12:09:15] AlmightyOatmeal: we're probably a couple of months away from that though
[12:09:25] phunyguy: yeah i know man
[12:10:17] phunyguy: alright time to get ready for work
[12:10:24] phunyguy: some of us aren't losers  ;)
[12:10:27] phunyguy: j/k
[12:10:29] phunyguy: have fun
[12:13:31] AlmightyOatmeal: ouch
[12:13:33] ** AlmightyOatmeal cries **
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[12:58:24] justinh: woo Shameless & Skins start again next week :)
[12:58:37] AlmightyOatmeal: sounds naughty
[12:59:08] justinh: oops. Skins starts again tonight
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[13:00:19] AlmightyOatmeal: sounds just as naughty
[13:05:46] justinh: the last series of Skins was utter filth
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[13:06:13] AlmightyOatmeal: i like filth ;)
[13:07:50] justinh: every series of Skins made me feel like I'd mis-spent my youth :P
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[13:13:40] AlmightyOatmeal: mmm
[13:13:41] AlmightyOatmeal: i mean
[13:13:42] AlmightyOatmeal: cool
[13:13:45] AlmightyOatmeal: i mean yeah
[13:16:25] AlmightyOatmeal: hmm, i search my listings for ^skins$ and i get nothing :'(
[13:19:09] justinh: EWRONGCOUNTRYOFRESIDENCE :P
[13:19:36] justinh: I think only HBO would allow something as filthy as Skins to be shown
[13:20:02] dustybin: emo ftw
[13:20:51] justinh: you can have people being disembowelled alive on US TV, but you can't show a glimpse of tit
[13:21:07] justinh: very sad indeed
[13:21:14] dustybin: television x ftw
[13:21:27] justinh: lol
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[13:22:31] directhex: television x sucks
[13:22:43] justinh: directhex: it doesn't even do that ;)
[13:22:46] dustybin: its better than nothing
[13:22:58] directhex: justinh, of course not. can't show r18-rated activities on tv
[13:23:44] AlmightyOatmeal: justinh: ooh.. yeah, i'm just doing analogue cable.. i dont have another cable box to spare or an ir blaster
[13:23:50] AlmightyOatmeal: no hbo for me :9
[13:23:51] AlmightyOatmeal: :(
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[13:27:39] justinh: oo I get to go on a jolly today :)
[13:28:37] AlmightyOatmeal: wtf is a jolly you brit? :P
[13:29:27] justinh: a work-related journey offsite
[13:29:37] AlmightyOatmeal: oh
[13:29:41] AlmightyOatmeal: neato
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[13:32:28] AlmightyOatmeal: i wish commercial removal worked better in mythtv, flagging appears to work but transcoding doesn't seem to cut them out
[13:32:33] ** AlmightyOatmeal shrugs **
[13:32:39] AlmightyOatmeal: futurama still looks good ;)
[13:33:02] justinh: if you want to auto-remove commercials you need to do some extra lifting yourself
[13:33:21] AlmightyOatmeal: yeah i suppose
[13:33:25] justinh: i.e. turn the commercial flags into cutpoints
[13:33:33] AlmightyOatmeal: oh
[13:33:33] justinh: press Z in edit mode :)
[13:33:49] justinh: or use nuvexport, which can do the same job IIRC
[13:34:11] justinh: if you really feel like entrusting the commflagging to destroying a recording ;)
[13:34:35] AlmightyOatmeal: can i set it to a turn flags into cut points automatically? i use the web ui to record most of the time and i'm hardly in front of the box itself
[13:34:41] justinh: nope
[13:34:50] AlmightyOatmeal: oh poo, thats okay though
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[13:58:35] iamlindaro: iamlindoro, hello
[14:00:54] AlmightyOatmeal: uh
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[14:03:23] iamlindaro: AlmightyOatmeal, you dont really want to set cut points automatically with commflag i just use commflag as a guide point while editing cut points
[14:03:38] iamlindaro: press the M key and select edit recording
[14:04:04] iamlindaro: once you are done editing you can transcode it using a profile you are happy with
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[14:04:46] AlmightyOatmeal: yeah, but that would work when i'm sitting in front of it.. i may do that when i'm feeling ambitious
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[14:07:28] oobie: yeah i could never be bothered at first now i enjoy the extra space
[14:07:48] oobie: plus no ads with very clean seamless cuts
[14:08:42] AlmightyOatmeal: hmm
[14:08:50] AlmightyOatmeal: does sound tastey for sure
[14:09:07] AlmightyOatmeal: once i get the box to a point of having a head then i'll start doing that
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[14:14:14] tank-man: AlmightyOatmeal, yes you can with a small shell script and run that as a job after the recording
[14:15:38] AlmightyOatmeal: i realize that
[14:16:18] tank-man: mythcommflag has a option "--gencutlist"
[14:16:26] tank-man: that makes the cut list from the skip list
[14:17:38] clever: some of my shows have dark scenes which cause the flag marks to go in the totaly wrong points
[14:18:14] tank-man: as with automatic anything, caution is needed
[14:18:23] clever: i usualy hit e to edit, z to load flags->cutlist, then fine tune each point so i dont loose anything
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[14:51:25] dustybin: clever: why dont you get a proper job instead of hanging around on IRC?
[14:51:58] clever: i made ~80$ a few days ago from somebody i met on IRC
[14:52:19] dustybin: :P
[14:52:37] clever: its not exactly a stable/predictable income, but its something:P
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[14:54:07] dustybin: clever: you spend your whole life amongst a pile of aged computers without a job, im disgusted
[14:54:40] clever: currently, im amongst a 1.6ghz laptop, it isnt exactly aged but its got a broken back
[14:57:10] dustybin: clever: dont worry, im only joking :D
[14:57:28] jduggan: bleh
[14:57:28] sid3windr: are ya
[14:57:30] sid3windr: are ya REALLY
[14:57:31] sid3windr: :]
[14:57:45] clever: i have to hold my laptop panel upright with strings:P
[14:58:35] dustybin: clever: have you tested out, arch-linux, its a cross between slackware and gentoo, excellent package manager, and 100% configurable. It beats slackware because of the 'pacman' package manager, and it beats gentoo because its generally binary
[14:59:00] clever: havent tried that one yet
[14:59:09] tanderson: gentoo can easily do binary stuff as well, you just have to configure a binrepo
[14:59:10] dustybin: it isnt based on anything either
[15:00:02] tank-man: how does it beat slackware or gentoo when slackware users dont want an automatic package manager and gentoo users want to compile their stuff ?
[15:00:23] dustybin: tank-man: aye true, its a matter of taste i guess
[15:00:47] tanderson: tank-man: the level of customability is about the same
[15:01:09] clever: im working on a gentoo based frontend
[15:01:15] clever: see if i can get it smaller
[15:04:33] clever: currently, its using 2.8gig
[15:05:32] clever: ouch
[15:05:38] clever: 2gig for the kernel build dir!
[15:08:22] poodyp: clever: you could compile your kernel on another machine and unmerge kernel-sources
[15:08:40] clever: or i could just do a 'make clean' when its finaly done
[15:08:48] clever: the source itself is only 200mb
[15:08:56] poodyp: that too
[15:08:58] clever: but im still adding more things into the kernel itself
[15:09:11] clever: network booting needs the nic drivers inkernel
[15:09:25] clever: and i want to boot the same kernel from 5 different systems
[15:09:31] poodyp: but I tend to recompile my kernel a lot so keeping everything around speeds things up a bit
[15:09:44] clever: thats why i havent cleaned yet
[15:10:25] clever: the current 'testing' laptop that actualy boots is low on ram
[15:10:29] clever: and i cant access swap
[15:10:45] clever: ive got lvm working, but it seems like i compiled IDE out:P
[15:11:10] poodyp: heh
[15:11:35] clever: and the clock is still a bit screwy
[15:11:41] clever: its off by 4 hours every time i boot
[15:11:47] poodyp: using ntp?
[15:11:54] clever: bios is set for localtime, but gentoo thinks its gmt
[15:12:03] clever: so im forced to ntp sync it every time i boot
[15:12:10] Dibblah: You have low class machines... And you're doing Gentoo?
[15:12:15] poodyp: use ntp-client
[15:12:18] Dibblah: clever: There's an option for that.
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[15:12:32] clever: i tried to find it on my existing systems but cant remember where
[15:13:01] Dibblah: clever: /etc/conf.d
[15:13:05] Dibblah: Somewhere ;)
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[15:13:31] clever: ahhh clock!
[15:14:07] clever: now lets see if i can compile pciutils on 256mb ram
[15:14:42] clever: crap, its trying to -j3!
[15:14:42] jduggan: Dibblah: to me, gentoo makes sense on low class machines more than the latest and greatest... i dont see the point in squeezing that extra hertz out of a quad core.. old machines makes more sense to me
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[15:14:46] jduggan: :)
[15:15:01] jduggan: Dibblah: though sure, its gonna be slow building it ;P
[15:15:19] Dibblah: You're talking optimisation of <1%.
[15:15:22] Dibblah: So why bother?
[15:15:24] poodyp: I once got gentoo running on a p266 with 32mb of ram
[15:15:24] clever: jduggan: i have distcc running on 2 systems atm, both with the same root
[15:15:45] clever: 00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01)
[15:15:54] jduggan: Dibblah: 1% on an old p3 is more juice :D
[15:16:03] jduggan: and clever has all gash stuff like that ;P
[15:16:47] wuzle: Is there a way to tell mythwelcome to not startup mythfrontend on boot in certain cases?
[15:17:05] jduggan: Dibblah: but yea, on newer stuff ur quite right.. though personally i only use gentoo on some publically accessible servers, i like its hardened tree, i dont use it for regular servers or desktop though ;P
[15:18:16] clever: <M> Intel PIIX/ICH chipsets support
[15:18:18] clever: found it:)
[15:18:56] clever: now that i think of it though, i think i had trouble linking the kernel itself on 256mb ram
[15:19:24] clever: and /proc/config.gz is enabled so it will allways relink the kernel
[15:20:51] clever: would you be able to remove the compiler from gentoo and still use most of it?
[15:21:10] poodyp: yeah
[15:21:21] poodyp: removing the portage files saves a bunch of space too
[15:21:43] clever: im storing /usr/portage seperately so i can share it between diff copys of gentoo
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[16:08:28] shadash: Ugh... Vista recommends 9GB if space to install
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[16:11:42] directhex: shadash, for 32-bit. it needs almost twice that for 64-bit
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[16:26:16] ** iamlindoro_ notices someone was obsessed with him in a "Single White Female" sort of way last night **
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[16:27:32] justinh: healthy
[16:27:43] iamlindoro_: indeed
[16:27:45] justinh: if you like duct tape & murder
[16:28:13] iamlindoro_: boy do I
[16:28:31] justinh: sorted, then
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[16:28:42] iamlindoro_: I wonder if this is another day of "pretend like you're industriously working on the laptop but write code for myth instead"
[16:28:47] justinh: hey, iamlindoro_ I could be like your long lost twin
[16:29:05] iamlindoro_: oh yeah?
[16:29:08] justinh: yeah
[16:29:12] justinh: lol
[16:29:29] justinh: god, I complained about being bored the other day. now I have a task
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[16:29:55] iamlindoro_: Do you have an almost unnatural fear of kidney beans and a grudge against the croatians?
[16:30:20] directhex: who doesn't?
[16:30:35] afm: no but i have an overwhelming desire to dip myself in butter and fight live lobster
[16:30:43] justinh: we have this mobile video recorder product, playing up somwhere – so some manager thinks it'll help to put another dvr onto it to record what happens. trouble is, the 56-pin nightmare connector needs to be teed into. guess who has to make that possible ? ;)
[16:31:12] justinh: iamlindoro_: couldn't care less about kidney beans. what purpose do they serve anyway? it's not like they taste of anything
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[16:33:57] iamlindoro_: So much for us being brothers then
[16:34:00] justinh: croatians though.. infact any kind of foreigner who doesn't speak English
[16:34:07] justinh: that included Scots
[16:34:18] iamlindoro_: + some members of the channel
[16:34:34] justinh: s/some/most
[16:34:34] iamlindoro_: "Anyone know a DVB-T card what has two tuners?
[16:34:44] justinh: iamlindoro_: he got a job!
[16:34:44] iamlindoro_: "
[16:34:48] iamlindoro_: So I hear
[16:34:51] laga: what?
[16:34:57] iamlindoro_: I might have to ease up if he gets an apartment
[16:35:13] justinh: dustybin got a job.B[B[A[B[B[B[B[B
[16:35:22] justinh: wth just happened there?
[16:35:31] laga: what kind of job?
[16:35:36] iamlindoro_: all those B's had their way with that A
[16:35:47] iamlindoro_: It was like japanese porno
[16:35:58] justinh: laga: something to do with printing.. ish
[16:36:15] iamlindoro_: He's the head desk clerk at the Office Depot?
[16:36:24] justinh: iamlindoro_: I didn't see any branches having their wicked way with 13 year olds
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[16:37:33] justinh: bah. only got a ten pound note. no chocolate break for me
[16:37:48] iamlindoro_: Lord how much does chocolate *cost* there?
[16:38:38] directhex: iamlindoro_, how much chocolate do you think he eats ni one sitting?
[16:38:39] justinh: the machines don't take notes :P
[16:39:02] iamlindoro_: directhex: I don't know, but it appears it's measured in dumptrucks
[16:39:10] justinh: lol
[16:39:18] jhulst_ (jhulst_!n=jhulst@unaffiliated/jhulst) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:39:20] justinh: yeah. and I keep losing weight. figure that one out
[16:39:48] directhex: your laxative smoothies just before bed?
[16:39:50] ** iamlindoro_ punches mythtv for not using a single busy indicator in the entire thing (not including plugins) **
[16:40:13] justinh: iamlindoro_: nah, you can tell it's doing stuff cos the animation stops
[16:40:18] iamlindoro_: Would be much easier to figure out the busy dialog if there WERE ANY outisde of MythMusic
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[16:41:02] justinh: what busy dialog?
[16:41:21] iamlindoro_: justinh: in default, the "radar/pie chart" dialog
[16:41:27] justinh: meh
[16:41:51] justinh: can't you just cheat?
[16:41:59] iamlindoro_: justinh: how so?
[16:42:15] justinh: i.e. copy the contents of it & plonk it somewhere else
[16:42:31] justinh: just to get the positioning etc right, then slam it back :)
[16:42:47] justinh: ning ning !
[16:42:48] iamlindoro_: Doesn't seem that simple
[16:42:55] justinh: it should be
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[16:43:53] justinh: oh hell yeah
[16:44:09] justinh: you just mean <window name="MythBusyDialog"> ?
[16:44:20] iamlindoro_: justinh: I mean in code, not in theme
[16:44:31] justinh: ah
[16:44:33] justinh: lol
[16:44:39] justinh: one track mind!
[16:44:49] iamlindoro_: for #6158
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[16:47:07] iamlindoro_: I should complain more
[16:47:21] iamlindoro_: Every time I do I figure out what I'm complaining about within 120 seconds
[16:48:03] clever: try complaining that my drives are too small:P
[16:48:15] laga: you do that enough
[16:48:29] iamlindoro_: Nature is a cruel mistress, but I'm sure some lovely girl will one day find your "drives" adequate
[16:48:50] clever: allready got one that likes my greasy hair:P
[16:48:58] iamlindoro_: sick
[16:49:16] laga: relatives don't count
[16:49:25] clever: its somebody i met on irc:P
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[16:53:42] laga: clever: i was afraid you were gonna say that
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[16:54:24] clever: ive yet to meet them outside of irc, so its not realy gone anywhere yet:P
[16:54:33] laga: "them"?
[16:54:55] clever: i forget if that person is even male or female:P
[16:55:16] clever: so it might not even be an option
[16:55:37] oobie: and how do you know they like your greasy hair
[16:55:51] oobie is now known as iamlindaro
[16:55:54] clever: because that person keeps saying it on irc:P
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[16:56:00] iamlindaro: oh ok
[16:56:05] iamlindaro: have they seen a pic
[16:56:10] clever: i think so
[16:56:16] clever: and i keep saying how i havent showered in a week:P
[16:56:21] laga: i get told that my washed hair is nice. OTOH, few people have ever seen it greasy ;)
[16:56:27] iamlindaro: and did you describe the texture and greasyness
[16:56:35] iamlindoro_: !trout iamlindaro singlewhitefemale
[16:56:35] ** MythLogBot slaps iamlindaro with a singlewhitefemale trout on behalf of iamlindoro_... **
[16:56:48] iamlindoro_: Get your own personality, shitwit
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[16:56:57] iamlindaro: lol
[16:57:20] clever: talking to yourself now arent we?
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[16:57:44] menotoobe is now known as oobe
[16:57:51] iamlindoro_: clever: Pay closer attention, dildo
[16:58:03] justinh: oobe: you mis-spelled it
[16:58:06] justinh: it's noob
[16:58:16] oobe: oh ok
[16:58:17] clever: ahhh, fake noob:P
[16:58:43] oobe is now known as Dustinh
[16:58:52] Dustinh: he
[16:59:17] Dustinh is now known as KemAWag
[16:59:20] iamlindoro_: If you're going to act like a jackass, you probably ought to do it in a way where you don't leave your IP open to banning
[16:59:31] KemAWag: me
[16:59:36] justinh: yes you
[16:59:49] shadash is now known as iamlindoro2
[16:59:53] justinh: mister ooo look I can be very mildly annoying
[16:59:57] iamlindoro_: 220.244.162.235, tpgi.com.au
[17:00:05] justinh: easy.
[17:00:08] ** justinh puts *.au on ignore **
[17:00:08] KemAWag: but i dont feel as if i am doing anything worth banning
[17:00:10] iamlindoro_: just for the logs in case you keep it up
[17:00:11] iamlindoro2: what that's just crazy talk
[17:00:35] iamlindoro2: I only care about myth for me
[17:01:06] iamlindoro2 is now known as shadash
[17:01:10] KemAWag: i would hide my ip if were doing somthing bad
[17:01:20] justinh: if were? english good
[17:01:41] KemAWag: yeah sorry i mean if i thought i were
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[17:03:33] ** justinh ponders just having an IRC whitelist in future **
[17:03:40] justinh: less work for me :)
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[17:05:03] oobe: me am tired just messing round dont take it seriously
[17:06:06] iamlindoro_: what was the excuse for doing it 8 hours ago?
[17:06:34] oobe: i was bored
[17:06:40] oobe: dont recall
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[17:07:04] justinh: bored/ADHD
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[17:07:12] oobe: you mean changing my nick
[17:07:14] zlyzyr (zlyzyr!n=mike@cpe-76-180-122-198.buffalo.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:07:17] oobe: yeah just bored
[17:07:19] windyj (windyj!n=unknown@jupiter.aui.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:08:12] justinh: beats me why so many people just sit in an IRC channel & literally never day anything in more than 3 months
[17:08:33] justinh: s/day/say
[17:08:48] justinh: hometime!
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[17:10:02] oobe: exactly
[17:12:24] windyj: Afternoon from cold Florida
[17:12:52] windyj: I am getting starting putting together a myth box.
[17:13:24] windyj: Basically will be dish network and OTA network for video inputs to start.
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[17:14:24] windyj: with the digital conversion coming next month what do I need for the digital inputs. I am getting confused with all of the different formats and cards avail.
[17:14:47] jams: iamlindoro_- without reading scroll back ,anything worth looking into?
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[17:15:09] iamlindoro_: jams: No, obnoxious but stopped short of anything worth policing... thanks though
[17:15:21] jams: cool
[17:15:26] Mez: I'm guessing that at least one person here will have a box in the attic which is their myth backend. Any suggestions for dealing with dust issues? (attics are generally dusty :D)
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[17:16:04] windyj: I am very familiar with fedora and was considering mythdora, but should I just compile from source for the most current drivers, etc.?
[17:16:51] perilousapricot: windyj, what drivers?
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[17:17:57] windyj: well that is part of my question, I haven't purchased anything yet. I've been reading Hacking MythTv and there were some comments about having to
[17:18:46] iamlindoro_: While oyu get *major* credit for taking the time to read documentation, books are generally a bit out of date-- as long as you choose well supported hardware any modern distro shouldn't need much futzing with drivers
[17:19:04] perilousapricot: I've not seen "hacking mythtv", but most recent distributions will have out of the box support for most hardware
[17:19:13] windyj: compile from source to get various drivers working. I guess I'm asking can you install mythdora and expect most or all drivers to work with current hardware
[17:19:16] perilousapricot: damnit, iamlindoro_ type slower
[17:19:19] iamlindoro_: Worst case scenario you might need to compile the v4l repository, which is a 5 minute exercise
[17:19:25] perilousapricot: windyj, probably so
[17:20:48] windyj: peril: ok thanks. with the coming change to all digital certainly all the books are out of date. The driver has always been the pain with linux, although some distros are better than others
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[17:21:20] iamlindoro_: windyj: Just keep in mind that the digital switchover affects ONLY antenna, it's not as sweeping as most companies would like you to believe
[17:22:38] windyj: iamlindoro: Well, the signal coming into the capture card is a very different signal compared to the analog sig that comes in now. I realize most networks are simulcasting.
[17:23:09] iamlindoro_: windyj: Once again, the switch *only* pertains to Over the Air, not to cable, satellite, etc.
[17:24:22] windyj: iamlindoro: Agreed. I know the dish network stuff stays the same, but I was speaking mostly about the OTA sigs coming in. No more analog OTA.
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[17:26:50] windyj: For instance, Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 – will this card handle the analog sig coming from the sat box and OTA digital sigs and output them at the same time
[17:27:04] windyj: either to live TV or record?
[17:27:05] iamlindoro_: Yes, we know :)
[17:27:36] iamlindoro_: Well, there's no "output," but yes, you can record OTA and record analog from a STB at the same time, yes
[17:28:41] windyj: Ok, trying to decide on a MB for the myth box I was picturing a need for a lot more slots than most of todays MB have. If there are multiple inputs that
[17:29:35] windyj: can be used on a single card that makes things simpler in my mind. I realize the "output" per se is the bus and then handled by myth I was really asking about the input side.
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[17:32:02] ** sid3windr has one of the last boards with 5x pci :) (+1x pci64) **
[17:32:10] sid3windr: pretty happy with that
[17:32:17] sid3windr: all slots filled, too ;/
[17:32:28] XLV: sid3windr, asus p5gc.. 6 pci slots
[17:32:34] XLV: and still sold
[17:32:48] XLV: supports even c2d 8600 with latest bioses
[17:32:51] sid3windr: hmm, it's pci-x even instead of pci64 ;)
[17:32:58] sid3windr: XLV: yea, I said "one of the last", not THE last ;)
[17:33:00] sid3windr: hehe
[17:33:13] sid3windr: hmm
[17:33:14] XLV: well, i am sure that p5gc is the last
[17:33:16] sid3windr: on mine it says: NOTE: This board DOES NOT support Q9000, E8000, E7000 or E5000 series processor
[17:33:31] sid3windr: when I bought it they weren't out yet ;)
[17:33:31] XLV: beta bios does
[17:33:42] sid3windr: ehh, I don't have a p5gc ;)
[17:35:51] GreyFoxx: Anyone know the VI command to show all charact4ers including embedded extra carriage returns?
[17:36:13] XLV: depending on chipset, they may support some of those with beta bioses.. maybe not quads, but dual cores 45nm could be supported
[17:37:07] jams: GreyFoxx- try :set list
[17:37:29] jams: set nolist to turn it off
[17:41:43] GreyFoxx: perfect that's the one I couldn't remember
[17:41:45] GreyFoxx: thanks :)
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[18:09:15] Anusien: Is there capability to stream videos (not recordings) over MythWeb the way music can be streamed?
[18:16:34] xris: Anusien: for now, only via direct download
[18:17:32] clever: would be neat if you could flash stream any video on the system
[18:17:49] clever: convert your box into a private youtube server with 2000 shows
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[18:18:45] xris: clever: you have a big hard drive.  :) but yes, that's my hope
[18:19:27] xris: I'd like to get an swf audio player, too.. the m3u stuff is a pain if you're using https or authentication (or both as I do)
[18:20:02] Anusien: It works fine for basic, just not digest
[18:20:40] sid3windr: clever has a harddisk supporting 2 shows at max, he just dreams of one supporting 2000 ;)
[18:20:59] clever: i have 300gig going towards mythtv recordings alone
[18:21:31] clever: and if i actualy stored everything at youtube qualitys i might be able to get 2000:P
[18:21:48] Anusien: Heh. I set up MythTV and then my cable company gave me a free DVR. I have recorded 0 shows
[18:22:04] sid3windr: on the dvr? or on myth :p
[18:22:29] Anusien: on myth
[18:23:19] sid3windr: cc dvr is better?!
[18:23:43] Anusien: cc?
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[18:23:53] clever: cable co
[18:23:55] sid3windr: cable co
[18:23:56] sid3windr: yeah
[18:23:56] sid3windr: :p
[18:24:08] Anusien: It's extra hard disk space :)
[18:25:07] poodyp: I'm on the verge of taking the dvr i have and encasing it in concrete and dropping it 5 miles off shore
[18:25:29] Anusien: Don't forget the holy wafers to make sure it doesn't rise back up
[18:25:37] poodyp: while it's still on
[18:25:51] Anusien: 5 mile extension cable?
[18:25:57] poodyp: battery backup
[18:26:30] poodyp: I'll get a UPS just for the occasion
[18:27:04] Anusien: cc dvr has this obnoxious habit of not actually recording shows so it may be time to give it the boot. Problem is I only have 1 tuner and I need to record like 4 shows at once :(
[18:28:08] Anusien: Oh, another question I had. Mythweb shows me two identical copies of each song I have. I just checked and the problem is not that I have a duplicate copy of my music library. Any tips on figuring this out?
[18:32:13] Anusien: ... sorry, I lied. Apparently at one point my music collection did get copied
[18:32:31] sid3windr: :]
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[18:32:59] Anusien: I blame itunes
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[18:41:51] Anusien: Is there a command line way to update the mythmusic database? There appears to be none based on a google search, but I wanted to double-check.
[18:42:00] jams: no there is no
[18:42:02] jams: t
[18:42:47] Anusien: That's unfortunate. Has it already been feature requested?
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[18:42:58] jams: several times
[18:43:23] xris: Anusien: you could check the feature request wiki. not many devs do, though. too busy working on other things.
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[18:46:17] Anusien: I wonder how hard it would be. Maybe I'll take a swing at it later
[18:46:56] Anusien: It just boggles my mind because mythweb has a way to scan for videos but not music.
[18:47:53] J-e-f-f-A_: Anusien: You could always create a patch and submit it... ;-)
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[18:48:17] kaktuspalme: hi there
[18:48:25] xris: Anusien: might be becuase neither of the mythweb devs uses mythmusic
[18:48:39] kaktuspalme: would it be a big problem with this case: http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_cont . . . amp;area=usa to control the display inside?
[18:49:15] Anusien: Could be! Theoretically there's already a way to do it, it's just not exposed anywhere. So theoretically I should be able to just expose it in some way
[18:49:35] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: I think that display is fed via VGA.
[18:49:59] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: not sure if the touchscreen has readily available drivers for Linux, it might...
[18:50:37] kaktuspalme: but if touchscreen works, what about 2 displays with mythtv, one to control and one to to view the content(LCD Screen)
[18:51:12] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: and currently myth's interface doesn't support mouse input.  – iirc that's one of the things being considered with the new UI.
[18:51:35] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: hmm new UI? :)
[18:51:56] poodyp: mythtv does support rudimentary mouse support but it's extremely limited
[18:52:07] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: The 'trunk' version of myth is going through a conversion to QT4 and a new UI.
[18:52:24] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: its fed via VGA
[18:52:42] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Yeah, as poodyp mentions, mouse works for some things in myth, but not alot at the moment.
[18:52:46] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: hmm, then mythtv is written in C++ or only the UI?
[18:52:59] GreyFoxx: myth is c++
[18:53:09] kyriptic: man theres no way i'm getting off my couch to touch that thing to navigate my menu
[18:53:14] GreyFoxx: the libavcodec stuff is c and asm
[18:53:20] GreyFoxx: but myth itself is primarily c++
[18:53:22] kaktuspalme: hmm, ok, i thought it's written in C, i'd like to write things for it :)
[18:53:38] wagnerrp: sid3windr: i dream of a disk that might be able to store 2000 shows
[18:53:39] kaktuspalme: and C would be better for me
[18:54:05] wagnerrp: of course that would end up being 5–10TB, and on second thought, i dont think i want that much on a single drive
[18:54:15] Anusien: wagnerrp: So get a giant storage solution
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[18:54:41] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Ya know, C++ isn't that far from C...
[18:54:43] Anusien: wagnerrp: I had a similar thought and my friend suggested an XIV storage device
[18:55:01] wagnerrp: Anusien: i actually do have hard drives scattered around the house totaling shy of 8TB
[18:55:16] kaktuspalme: thx for coding new website xris :)
[18:55:24] wagnerrp: just a reference to sid3windr's joke of clever having old hardware
[18:55:28] Anusien: wagnerrp: I need a ton more
[18:55:52] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: the whole templating thing and other things, but it's not a big problem to include C Code in a C++ Project
[18:56:06] dustybin: clever: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others
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[18:57:06] wagnerrp: kaktuspalme: why not do something like pluto does?
[18:57:32] kaktuspalme: wagnerrp: ? who's pluto?
[18:57:34] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Well, I'm not a C++ expert, but I've been able to make some mods to the lcd server with my 'plain' C knowledge...
[18:57:35] wagnerrp: they have their own separate GUI that interfaces with mythfrontend using the telnet interface
[18:57:53] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: LCD Server?
[18:57:53] wagnerrp: the telnet interface in myth was actually written under contract for pluto
[18:58:17] kaktuspalme: wagnerrp: cool, where can i find that?
[18:58:21] wagnerrp: the remote keyboard in mythweb similarly uses the telnet interface to the frontend
[18:58:28] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: mythlcdserver – it's an lcdproc server for Character LCDs for myth.
[18:58:33] wagnerrp: 'telnet <your frontend> 6546'
[18:58:52] poodyp: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Telnet_socket
[18:59:08] wagnerrp: if you wanted to whip something together quickly, you could probably write it in python/tk or python/gtk
[18:59:30] wagnerrp: just use the native socket support
[18:59:31] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: cool, do you have a special HTPC Case, i try to find one, but no one fits with my needs
[18:59:49] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: it's currently somewhat limited in what it can display. I've done lots of work with character LCDs with microcontrollers, so I'm going to work on making the LCD capabilities 'prettier'...
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[19:00:09] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: cool :)
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[19:02:18] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: I have a huge monolyth case for my backend, with an external CrystalFontz 634 USB 20x4 character LCD currently. I also have an Antec Fusion 430 Black that's got an iMon LCD on the front, but not currently using that.
[19:03:04] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: i've got some other LCDs that I've used at one time or another... 40x2, 40x4, 20x4, 16x2, to name a few... plus some character VFDs.
[19:03:25] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: the Antec Fusion looks interesting, how many PCI Devices can i put in?
[19:03:48] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: it's a uAtx case, so only 4 slots sadly.
[19:03:58] wagnerrp: note thats 4 total slots
[19:04:00] xris: kaktuspalme: you're welcome.  :)
[19:04:03] wagnerrp: one will go to graphics
[19:04:06] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: thats one more i need :)
[19:04:09] xris: wagnerrp: you actually use that? it crashes my frontend when I try. heh
[19:04:20] wagnerrp: depending on your board, some more might go to other pcie slots
[19:04:30] wagnerrp: xris: the telnet interface?
[19:04:32] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Well, it all depends on what motherboard you put in there as to what the slots are...
[19:04:46] kaktuspalme: one DVB-T, DVB-S2 and perhaps one graphic card, and in the future perhaps a soundcard
[19:05:18] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: the motherboard I just put in there has 2xpci, 1x PCIe 16x, and 1xPCIe 1x.
[19:05:27] kaktuspalme: but, first, no graphic card, as long as nvidia has vdpau support :)
[19:05:46] xris: wagnerrp: the keyboard in mythweb
[19:05:53] wagnerrp: remember those all have to be low profile cards
[19:06:05] wagnerrp: xris: works fine for me... when it works anyway
[19:06:07] J-e-f-f-A|work: wagnerrp: not on the antec fusion 430, it's full-height.
[19:06:09] xris: it's fairly useless to me until I can get the remote screenshot functionality to work, too.. that also crashes the frontend for me.
[19:06:11] wagnerrp: ive never had it crash a frontend
[19:06:13] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: the only problem for me is, that no one delievers an antec fusion case, here in switzerland
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[19:07:10] kaktuspalme: are there any 5.25" LCD Screens, to put into a drive slot?
[19:07:13] wagnerrp: son of a bitch, i broke the arms on my chair again
[19:07:27] kormoc: language...
[19:07:27] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Also note that the Black one has an iMon LCD, with a bunch of icons that aren't fully supported yet, and the Silver one has a Character VFD (I believe also iMon), no icons.
[19:07:29] xris: kaktuspalme: fusion is a nice case (I have the black one)
[19:08:29] kaktuspalme: xris: J-e-f-f-A|work, hmm ok cool, i'll look for someone who can send me one
[19:09:23] xris: kaktuspalme: for pics: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129054
[19:09:45] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: The Fusion also has an IR receiver, and the black case has a volume knob that works through lirc (simulates two remote control buttons) I think the silver one has the volume knob too.
[19:10:41] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: yeah, xris has the exact case I have... ;-) and newegg is $9 more than I paid for mine when CompUSA went out of business here in the states... ;-)
[19:11:04] xris: I forget what I paid for mine. probably $150 or so (from newegg, with discounts)
[19:11:20] xris: wish I had time to poke around with it and get the LCD screen hooked up again,e tc.
[19:11:39] kaktuspalme: ok ok, which case should i buy, the black one or the silver?
[19:11:57] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: This is what the LCD display looks like: (only on the Black case) http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/Products/oem3. . . . ;leftMenu=43
[19:12:02] clever: .
[19:12:37] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Keep in mind that those icons all around the display area aren't supported yet (there are some hacks/patches out there, but not offical in lcdproc yet)
[19:13:08] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: ok, then i'll buy the black one, here it has exactly the same price as the silver
[19:13:19] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Also, that image is a little deceiving, in that the LCD has a blue background and white pixels.
[19:13:56] ** xris wishes he could turn off (or at least dim) the LCD **
[19:14:04] kormoc: kaktuspalme, if you're gonna pick whatever one folks want, I think you should go with bright pink with orange-red highlights
[19:14:19] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Here's the wiki page about the imon lcds: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Imon
[19:14:31] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Yeah, not trying to decide for you, trying to show you... ;-)
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[19:15:03] J-e-f-f-A|work: xris: Yeah, I'll work on that... ;-)
[19:16:11] kaktuspalme: kormoc: ok, link? :)
[19:16:23] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: the VFD is more pleasing to look at – off is black, character pixels are bright blue. The LCD is a solid blue background, with white (or bright blue?) pixels. And it stays ON with the case off.
[19:16:45] kormoc: kaktuspalme, these guys will do it for ya! http://www.directron.com/painting.html
[19:17:14] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: I had it connected to my windoze box for a test, and the software programs it to be a clock when the PC is off. (that isn't implemented in Linux)
[19:18:29] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: basically, do more shopping/research before you buy.
[19:18:30] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: hmm ok, that's not a problem, i have enough clocks
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[19:19:21] kaktuspalme: one cool thing im missing(not about the case) it would be cool, if i could turn the box into standby, and if it would automatically wake up if theres something it should record
[19:20:54] poodyp: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/ACPI_Wakeup
[19:21:01] poodyp: it's possible
[19:21:04] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: Yes, that's possible. I don't do it myself, but others do. I haven't checked, but there's probably a wiki entry for it... ^^ yep, there is! ;-)
[19:21:39] kormoc: does the MBE wake-on-lan when there's a schedule update for a slave be?
[19:22:15] kaktuspalme: J-e-f-f-A|work: ok cool, i'll look for it
[19:22:29] J-e-f-f-A|work: kaktuspalme: poodyp pasted a link to it^^^
[19:22:56] kaktuspalme: poodyp: thx :)
[19:23:06] poodyp: np
[19:25:15] kaktuspalme: if i'm right, i can even shutdown it
[19:25:27] sid3windr: wagnerrp: I recorded some show with mythtv, it's 688MB. On a 1.5TB harddisk 2100 of these would fit ;)
[19:26:21] wagnerrp: i wouldnt want a recording that small
[19:27:00] wagnerrp: either its mpeg2, and thats painfully small (unless its about 10 minutes long)
[19:27:25] wagnerrp: or its mpeg4, in which case i would have to deal with the hassle of a framegrabber
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[19:31:18] tank-man: sounds like 30min show in sd with mpeg2
[19:31:27] sid3windr: it's mpeg2 and it's 25min
[19:31:30] sid3windr: yup
[19:31:32] sid3windr: 25–30min
[19:32:11] sid3windr: 25min, 688MB :)
[19:32:15] sid3windr: dvb-t mpeg2
[19:32:22] wagnerrp: oof... thats what, 2mbps?
[19:32:34] wagnerrp: oh, well at least its not your fault then
[19:32:37] sid3windr: yeah, not a lot I guess
[19:32:37] wagnerrp: :P
[19:32:37] sid3windr: hehe
[19:32:42] sid3windr: also have a dvb-c recording
[19:32:45] sid3windr: 1 hour, 2.3GB
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[19:53:57] justinh: 2Mbps is quite high for some dvb-t
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[19:59:22] iamlindoro_: I can't help but feel all this coding would be loads easier if I knew a shred of terminiology
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[20:00:31] sid3windr: the 25min show was that thing they remixed with that rap thing :p
[20:00:32] sid3windr: lazytown
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[20:11:09] kormoc: iamlindoro_, 3/4ths of coding is terminology
[20:11:36] iamlindoro_: kormoc: That fits with my 25% capabilities
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[20:13:04] justinh: I'm told things 'just click one day' so until then you need to bang your head on the desk
[20:13:16] iamlindoro_: as in "I can do 25% of any job right."  :)
[20:13:56] justinh: I'm a jack of some trades, master of none :)
[20:13:58] iamlindoro_: Well I'm getting more adept and being a cheating, stealing codethief, though
[20:14:12] justinh: that's coding :P
[20:14:43] justinh: everything I've ever done has started as stolen stuff
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[20:19:28] Mousey: hi
[20:19:54] AlmightyOatmeal: OMG NO!
[20:21:12] Mousey: can somebody PLEASE (point me to a link) explain(ing) why import DVD will rip the dvd fine, but won't actually transcode it
[20:21:14] Mousey: ?
[20:25:13] Anduin: Mousey: look at the mtd log, do you have 'transcode'?
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[20:35:35] Mousey: Anduin, yes. transcode and mythtranscode are both installed. the behavior is the same for both. when it finishes ripping, it says transcode is thinking, then says it's done. the mtd.log says transcode successful. so i'm stumped
[20:36:53] Mousey: 12:15:16: job thread beginning to rip dvd title
[20:37:24] Mousey: hmm, uncooperative clipboard
[20:38:28] Mousey: 12:17:29: job thread finished ripping dvd title
[20:38:38] Mousey: oh nm
[20:39:18] shadash: everyone see this... http://digg.com/linux_unix/Obama_wants_to_know_Why_open_source
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[20:40:42] GreyFoxx: yeah, they had that on Slashdot yesterday morning
[20:41:04] GreyFoxx: Interesting that he is looking into that sort of thing
[20:41:46] shadash: if you want to keep jobs and lower spending there's not many other choices
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[20:43:57] iamlindoro_: Would have been wiser to title it "Why *not* open source"
[20:44:10] GreyFoxx: It's just going to cause Fox and CNN to go on about how the world will collapse because of using open source blah blah
[20:44:43] justinh: I don't think anybody MS is making redundant will blame Linux :P
[20:45:18] shadash: Open Source is like a "cancer". That makes everything cheaper and work better.
[20:45:18] justinh: and er.. when I leave my current job I think I might rat on somebody for GPL violation
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[20:45:33] iamlindoro_: That's funny, I heard justinh is like cancer
[20:45:41] justinh: like? I AM
[20:45:48] iamlindoro_: I myself am a disgrace to the community
[20:46:13] iamlindoro_: kormoc's getting sued for not changing MythWeb as ordered
[20:46:19] justinh: although, maybe I'm just confusing 'the big C' with 'a big C' :P
[20:46:20] iamlindoro_: we're a bunch of rogues, we are
[20:46:46] justinh: look at my output this week. 2 measly icons. no more
[20:47:09] iamlindoro_: I've been sorta profilic this eek. I'm kinda proud of me
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[20:47:12] iamlindoro_: week
[20:47:15] iamlindoro_: prolific
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[20:47:35] justinh: prophylactic?
[20:47:41] shadash: I'll know MicroSoft has excepted Linux/Unix as an equal when I can type "ls" and it's linked to "dir" by default
[20:48:02] justinh: shadash: either that or just installed something by mistake
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[21:03:20] wagnerrp: changing mythweb? for what?
[21:04:06] iamlindoro_: Believe the request was that he rewrite it in some other language
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[21:04:27] justinh: all in a night's work
[21:04:32] wagnerrp: people language? or computer language?
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[21:05:09] justinh: I mean we're all beavering away on the flash mythfrontend cos somebody wants it to rawk on his PS3. Aren't we?
[21:06:22] iamlindoro_: wagnerrp: computer
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[21:20:53] Kazan: any idea why i would be randomly getting EXTREMELY long delays in mythtv responding to lirc input
[21:21:07] laga: trunk?
[21:21:13] Kazan: none of the input is dropped.. it just doesn't perform the instructions until one big clsuter anywhere from 15 to 60 seconds after
[21:21:14] Kazan: yes trunk
[21:21:23] laga: Kazan: i think gbee is seeing the same problem
[21:21:55] Kazan: i was just sitting with irw open watching the input
[21:21:55] iamlindoro_: A number of people are, I think it's being looked at pretty closely
[21:22:01] Kazan: it's not a delay from lirc
[21:22:02] iamlindoro_: Greyfoxx may be too
[21:22:27] Kazan: im currently synced to revision 19678
[21:23:15] wagnerrp: thats a bit aged, i think its nearing revision 19800 currently
[21:23:32] iamlindoro_: All the same, there's an open ticket on the issue, updating likely wouldn't help
[21:23:53] Kazan: have they isolated what patch introduced it
[21:23:55] wagnerrp: yeah, doubtful anything between now and then would have made changes to lirc
[21:24:23] iamlindoro_: go find the ticket and read it if you're interested
[21:27:47] Kazan: know the ticket number or a word in the title?
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[21:29:42] iamlindoro_: no
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[21:30:55] ** Kazan kicks lirc+myth **
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[21:36:06] Kazan: hmm.. i wonder if the ticket is just found INTRODUCED it
[21:36:10] Kazan: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5893
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[21:40:20] justinh: hmmm wonder why thetvdb.com fanart images have pre-applied vignettes
[21:40:37] iamlindoro_: I don't know but they're horribly ugly
[21:40:50] justinh: aren't they just
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[21:41:12] justinh: according to their wiki they're automatically done for some media software
[21:41:18] justinh: like er. why?
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[21:57:38] jackson__: Hmm, I don't suppose there is an undocumented User Job option to pass the recorded.recordid ?
[21:57:46] justinh: erm.. wonder where the 3d cover image is from, seen here: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4121/bluelistvidvieweg4.jpg
[22:05:25] wagnerrp: you can grab the full size image, you dont have to pick up the one with text pre-applied
[22:06:13] wagnerrp: although the site itself is painfully slow
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[22:06:39] iamlindoro_: Too many file monkeys hitting it with the latest 1000 files they've downloaded
[22:07:58] justinh: hrm. maybe the '3d' case images are coming from cdcovers.cc and are being warped round the box in the skin engine.. but I doubt it
[22:08:12] justinh: intruiging
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[22:24:28] yalu: pressing left is 5 seconds back. rewind is 10 minutes back. now where do I change that? :-)
[22:24:52] tanderson: Playback settings, isn't it?
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[22:25:55] sphery: There, finally provided the info to stop the annoyingly wrong discussion on the thread, "OSD fonts," on -users list.
[22:29:33] iamlindoro_: sphery: Done with the StorageGroup move code yet?
[22:29:37] iamlindoro_: heh
[22:30:27] sphery: Actually just thinking about doing channel icons SG code (warm up), then either preview images SG code or SG copy/move...
[22:31:21] sphery: Of course, I spent way too long tracking down info on each of the different OSD themes for that above-mentioned reply on -users, so I should have finished the channel icons SG code by now... :)
[22:31:30] iamlindoro_: You should bug Greyfoxx to commit his changes, then you could follow the example
[22:31:56] iamlindoro_: I gots patches need finishing!
[22:32:27] iamlindoro_: Plus if you do that I can abandon trying to get the devil-goddess that is the busy popup working
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[22:36:33] ** sphery thinks #4212 should be closed wontfix since MythVideo will soon have SG support **
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[22:36:55] sphery: at least that's one option for kormoc ^^^^
[22:37:26] iamlindoro_: Heh, was just reading that ticket
[22:37:47] sphery: you have to help me convince kormoc not to waste his time on it, then :)
[22:38:01] iamlindoro_: I don't think he'll take that much convincing, he knows it's coming :)
[22:38:15] kormoc: yeah... I've been dreading that ticket, as the last thing I want to do is add more things to data/, I'm on a (un?)holy quest to remove that directory!
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[22:39:22] yunosh: hi, my imon pad ir is working fine with lirc from cvs, with one exception: the buttons that generate events on lirc0 (black key, pad) always fire twice. any ideas?
[22:39:38] yalu: damit that works badly... sticky keys is nice when ffwding, but backwards it's sloooow
[22:40:04] sphery: kormoc: how do you want channel icons to work?
[22:40:14] sphery: I'm doing the patch for channel icons SG code now
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[22:40:34] ** iamlindoro_ cheers sphery **
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[22:40:55] sphery: (not that I plan to do the MythWeb part, but knowing how you want it to work would make doing the backend/frontend code easier)
[22:41:02] kormoc: sphery, I was under the impression that GreyFoxx had code he was going to commit any day now (tm) that would allow streaming of files from storage groups via the backend
[22:41:27] iamlindoro_: think his changes pertain only to MythVideo movies
[22:41:34] kormoc: sphery, so if that's the case, I'd love a similar XML interface as we're using for preview images
[22:41:38] kormoc: ahh, sad
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[22:41:55] iamlindoro_: not that they can't probably be easily adapted to EverythingElse (tm)
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[22:43:34] sphery: I don't know how much of the streaming is currently supported by MythProto (QUERY_FILETRANSFER), but--unless we currently require a chanid/starttime for it--I was under the impression it would work for any file in an SG.
[22:43:51] sphery: However, what I needed to know was whether you preferred the MythXML or MythProto approach.
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[22:44:14] sphery: I can do it for MythXML (which would require separate queries for different things, most likely)
[22:44:25] kormoc: I'm gonna migrate as much to the mythXML as I can, it's a fair bit faster then handling a full backendrow
[22:44:50] sphery: cool
[22:44:53] iamlindoro_: Would be nice to add similar after-the-fact loading of channel icons to the listings page as the recorded page
[22:45:19] kormoc: Aye, that's the plan
[22:45:22] iamlindoro_: wonder how much it would speed up loading of that page for folks like me with oddles of icons
[22:45:26] iamlindoro_: oodles
[22:45:28] sphery: maybe step 1 towards cutting MythProto down to basics (only what's required for performance--such as QUERY_FILETRANSFER) while migrating others to MythXML
[22:45:37] kormoc: could just disable channel icons and give it a go and see
[22:45:41] iamlindoro_: yeah
[22:45:47] sphery: kormoc: do you plan to cache them on the MW host?
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[22:46:40] kormoc: sphery, nope, I'm gonna do the same thing I did with the pixmaps. Mythweb's just passing them though directly without storing them, but asking the client to cache them aggressively, so each additional request never hits the backend if they have their browser set to cache
[22:46:43] sphery: Oh, BTW, I thought I was going to work on the patch right now, but I'm building an updated working copy and it seems someone's been hacking with enough of Myth that my ccache isn't helping much, so it will be a bit longer :)
[22:46:55] kormoc: heh, no worries :)
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[22:47:55] sphery: kormoc: cool... I also plan to do a Thumbnails storage group, such that if it exists all thumbnails are written to dirs in it. That should significantly improve the backend's ability to quickly find previews (for those users who configure the SG).
[22:48:07] kormoc: yeah
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[22:48:37] kormoc: I'm really a fan of having the BE handle it all, as then we don't have to worry bout cleaning up after recordings are deleted or the like
[22:49:02] kormoc: I half wonder if folks even care about how agressively we cache things on the client side...
[22:49:40] sphery: well, we only cache things that are tiny compared to the types of files Myth can process, so probably most haven't really noticed
[22:50:19] kormoc: Yeah, my 400 some odd recordings have about 3.5 megs of preview images, nothing that bad
[22:51:16] sphery: yeah, I figure with a thumbnails SG, users can specify a filesystem that's better designed for smalll files (i.e. better block size or whatever), not to mention cleaning up all the garbage in the recordings dir
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[22:52:48] sphery: I just can't decide whether to have mythtv-setup automatically move as many thumbnails as possible when the SG is created. I'm leaning toward no because of the issues with offline storage or non-local filesystems (i.e. users would only specify the Thumbnails SG on remote backends if they want to override its location, as defined by the mbe)
[22:54:04] RyeBrye: for performance reasons, I store all of my recordings in RAM – does anyone see a problem in this approach ;)
[22:54:12] ** RyeBrye is practicing to get on the -users list ;) **
[22:54:23] ** iamlindoro_ flicks off the lightswitch in RyeBrye's room **
[22:54:35] kormoc: RyeBrye, not at all! Infact, you can send me some extra money too, given you have so much to burn!
[22:54:50] iamlindoro_: RyeBrye: For real prep, when someone points out the flaw in your logic, you need to compare them to Hitler and firebomb their house
[22:55:23] RyeBrye: :)
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[22:57:26] myth-newb: i tried to rip a movie using the import DVD feature, but it ripped it in 4x3, so now on my widescreen tv the image is squashed
[22:57:37] sid3windr: with ram at 10 eur/2 gig, this is not unlikely, RyeBrye :>
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[22:59:52] myth-newb: anyone know why mythtv imported my widescreen movie and squashed it to 4x3?
[23:00:27] RyeBrye: nope
[23:00:52] RyeBrye: It's been about 3 years since I used the DVD ripper in Myth
[23:01:00] Anduin: myth-newb: the mtd log file knows (it will have the command passed to transcode)
[23:01:39] myth-newb: Anduin, where do I find the mtd log
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[23:02:46] Anduin: myth-newb: the mtd temp location, whatever you've configured that to
[23:03:10] Mousey: it lies tho
[23:03:41] myth-newb: Anduin, i haven't set it... i didn't know what mtd was until now.
[23:04:00] myth-newb: Anduin, in the dvd ripper settings it says "directory to hold temporary files: /var/lib/mythdvd/temp"
[23:04:08] Mousey: probably /var/log/mythtv/mtd.log
[23:04:44] venger: i just ran an update statement on the settings table and it looks like it auto committed, i do have a full mysqldump from a couple hours ago should i try to extract the stuff specific to this table from that dump..etc or do i have other options
[23:04:57] Anduin: nothing defaults to /var/log unless your packager does it for you
[23:05:21] Mousey: oh
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[23:06:09] Mousey: mythbuntu (and debian) put it there from the medibuntu(?) and debian-multimedia.org repos
[23:06:38] myth-newb: Anduin, the mtd.log says it was ripped at 720x480...that's widescreen, right? Why does it play 4x3 then
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[23:07:55] Anduin: myth-newb: was this a perfect copy or good,blah,etc?
[23:08:17] myth-newb: Anduin, excellent I think
[23:08:34] Anduin: myth-newb: yeah, so transcode could be altering it
[23:09:04] myth-newb: Anduin, oh... so is there anything I can do?
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[23:10:51] Anduin: myth-newb: use perfect, or track down why it is picking the wrong transcode profile
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[23:11:27] myth-newb: Anduin, will perfect take more time? Excellent took like 2.5 hours
[23:11:34] myth-newb: or more
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[23:12:43] Anduin: myth-newb: up to significantly less, !perfect = perfect + transcode
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[23:15:09] myth-newb: Anduin, up to significantly less? What does that mean
[23:15:50] Anduin: myth-newb: it means the time to transcode varies, excellent being the longest possible, perfect will be faster, probably significantly
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[23:17:08] myth-newb: ok
[23:18:19] myth-newb: Anduin, thanks
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[23:25:40] RyeBrye: it's absolutely ridiculous how much faster a C2Q can compile myth from distclean compared to a hyperthreaded P4
[23:25:56] RyeBrye: like.. 2 minutes versus 40 minutes or something crazy like that
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[23:42:02] venger: i learned something new during my restore, "show create table mytable" lets you see the full create statement with keys etc :)
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