MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (210):

A-, abqjp, aBs0lut30, academy, adante, Agrajag-, akv, alexvd_, andreax1, Anduin, AndyCap, AngryElf, anykey_, arttu, at0m|c, Axios, Beirdo, benc_, bestis, bobgill, cafuego, Caliban, Captain_Murdoch, CaptObviousman, cattelan, CCFL_Man_, ceecil, cesman, chainsawf, ChanServ, charlieS, Chicago, Chutt, clever, Computer_Czar, CoreDump, Cougar, CrazyFoam, croppa, d00gster0, d0netsFN, Dagmar, danomac, dashcloud, Dave123, dec, dfgas, DGnome, Dibblah, directhex, dkeith, dlblog, dmz, doc__, dustybin, eNeRGi, FinnTux, flindet, Floppe, FlyOnTheWall, forrestv, gbee, gnome42, grantm, gregL, GreyFoxx, growler, Gumby, hachi, hadees, hatchmt, high-rez, Honk, Hoxzer, Huijari, iamlindoro, ikonia, inordkuo, J-e-f-f-A, J-e-f-f-A|work, jackson__, jamesd, jamiem, jams, janneg, jarle, javatexan, jduggan, jedi__, jesse, jgoss, Josh_Borke, jpabq, jroysdon, justdave, justinh, jvs, kabtoffe, kali67, KaZeR, keith4, keith_, kensukeido, kothog, KraMer, kurre2, LabMonkey, laga, Led-Hed, linagee, LiNERROR, Lollero, Lord_Deathscythe, Lunar_Lamp, lwizardl, lyricnz, mace, MartinCleaver, MaverickTech, mchou, meshe, mgisbers, mikeones, MilkBoy, mishehu, mo0dbo0m, moodboom, MythLogBot, mzb_d800, nagnag, neddy, notyjoey, nsx, nullsmack, Octane, olejl, opello, otwin, paladine, Patina, pat_, Penfold_, perilousapricot, pheld, phunyguy, pigeon, PointyPumper, psipsi, psofa_, purserj, quicksilver, quigleymd, radi0head, RDV_Linux, RobertLaptop, rojo, rooaus, ruskie, Scopeuk, Sedorox, sege_, shadash, sid3windr, simcop2387, simoo, slayven, SlicerDicer, Slim-Kimbo, smithzv, sphery, squidly, squish102, stephelton, styelz, sulx, sutula, symptom, tanderson, tank-man, tarbo, Terrortoertchen, tfm, thefRont, Therock_, Thomas-, Tomasu, tomimo, toorima, tris, tritium, troldrik, unimaginative, unimaginative_, ventz, wagnerrp, Wayhigh, whodat, Winkie, wylie, xand, xris, zand, zDen, zlyzyr, [gquit]bombadil, [PUPPETS]Gonzo, _abbenormal, _charly_, _crichardson, _packetscan
Wednesday, January 14th, 2009, 00:01 UTC
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[00:06:21] wagnerrp: khunt: that seems to be a common problem
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[00:20:30] sphery: iamlindoro_: look what you did to poor gbee
[00:21:26] iamlindoro_: sphery, Wait, what I do?
[00:22:08] sphery: you know... (see #mythtv)
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[00:22:47] sphery: I'm just joking, by the way.
[00:23:00] wagnerrp: aww... beirdo doesnt log #mythtv
[00:23:46] sphery: nothing too interesting... he's just making more work for gbee
[00:23:48] iamlindoro_: sphery is right, though, I threw poor gbee into a pool of boiling hurt
[00:26:22] sphery: iamlindoro_: well, it's good for entertainment, at least
[00:26:40] iamlindoro_: I'm not entertained by his rudeness
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[00:27:07] sphery: yeah, but his lack-of-connection-to-the-real-world is entertaining
[00:28:08] ** iamlindoro_ makes a retroactive new year's resolution to keep his mouth shut...ish **
[00:28:29] sphery: I do that once every week or so, but it never sticks.
[00:28:54] iamlindoro_: Ugh, someone just needs to mention that it's too late to write a whole new API
[00:30:51] iamlindoro_: sphery, you should step in, you are good at making things sound nice
[00:31:04] sphery: lol... have you ever read the -users list?
[00:31:44] sphery: iamlindoro_: perhaps the xml he just wrote is all he was trying to contribute...
[00:33:00] jpabq: iamlindoro_: If you want the matrix trilogy on HD-DVR, borders has it for $10. item #8948347 on their web site.
[00:33:02] sphery: there... danielk's got a good plan.
[00:33:23] sphery: wow... firesale on HD-DVD
[00:33:23] jpabq: s/HD-DVR/HD-DVD/
[00:33:39] iamlindoro_: jpabq, Have it already :) Thanks
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[00:38:09] sphery: iamlindoro_: summarizing (where "you" = "Myth"): Your UI isn't up to my standards, and even the new MythUI-based stuff isn't good enough that people would pay for it. I'm not willing to work the way you guys work, but you should do things my way. I'll make a template using a language that you don't use, and you can use it (by converting it to C++) to completely redesign the entire UI with my "universal facelift" which will ...
[00:38:15] sphery: ... involve tons of animation.
[00:38:29] iamlindoro_: Well I'm about to hear all his thoughts on my work again, sigh
[00:38:47] iamlindoro_: Because it was so fun/polite/inspiring last time
[00:38:53] ** kormoc laughs **
[00:38:54] kormoc: whoops
[00:39:13] iamlindoro_: haha, it's okay, least I deserve after throwing gbee into the pit
[00:39:13] kormoc: I should shut up, I *HATE* those flashy ui stuff
[00:40:28] kormoc: Cause nothing makes a UI usable like video background, 3d, dropshadows, glows, and fading transitions
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[00:41:02] wagnerrp: dont forget the lens flare!
[00:41:04] iamlindoro_: ah this will end well
[00:41:25] ** kormoc laughs **
[00:41:28] kormoc: this is awesome
[00:41:36] smithna: Anyone up on qt4/c++
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[00:42:30] sphery: smithna: details?
[00:43:17] sphery: anyone with bets on prometh's age?
[00:43:19] smithna: I am working on porting a plugin to qt4 and am havng issues with qprocess (specifically , start)
[00:43:30] smithna: QProcesss proc; QString program; QStringList args; proc(program, args); .... result: exec: args (ie: --test, instead of /usr/local/bin/x --test)
[00:43:51] kormoc: sphery, 28
[00:44:03] sphery: kormoc: I'd have guessed < 15
[00:44:36] kormoc: I've meet way too many mid to late 20's folks that act exactly the same way lately...
[00:45:24] sphery: smithna: that's definitely much better details--enough, even, for me to know I won't be much help
[00:45:31] sphery: smithna: which plugin?
[00:45:37] kormoc: when you are interviewing with a company with a established product, it's bad form to admit that you have know knowledge of the language they used, and you lied on your resume and you feel that you can re-write it all in a few months in your preferred language cheaper then the entire current dev team
[00:45:42] smithna: myrhvodka
[00:46:24] meshe: kormoc: makes good sense :)
[00:46:58] ** kormoc laughs **
[00:47:10] kormoc: ahh, right, he'll save the company money! Whee!
[00:47:20] sphery: smithna: I'd recommend an e-mail to the mailing list (with appropriate details and code). I'm guessing that either Nigel or Daniel K would reply with some advice.
[00:47:59] smithna: dev or user?
[00:48:41] iamlindoro_: Isn't there a pretty lengthy thread about it already with kkuphal joining in?
[00:48:45] iamlindoro_: on -users
[00:48:48] sphery: kormoc: sounds like something similar to what I (an outsider) get the feeling may have happened on a particular Open Source project
[00:49:26] smithna: Thanks iamlindoro, sphery
[00:50:11] sphery: smithna: Probably -users is best since it's a 3rd-party plugin. Both Nigel and Daniel watch -users.
[00:50:22] kormoc: sphery, Sad :(
[00:50:25] sphery: though kkuphal is also a dev
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[00:58:55] wagnerrp: fun... another mouth breather on the -users list with a borked mail server
[00:59:07] wagnerrp: mail, from several hours in the future
[01:00:15] sphery: smithna: as iamlindoro_ mentioned, kkuphal is a dev, so posting your patches/progress in response to http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/365268#365268 would likely provide the initial push he needs to start helping you
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[01:03:09] perilousapricot: what headers do I need to build from SVN with vdpau?
[01:04:12] iamlindoro_: vdpau.h
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[01:15:30] smithna: Thanks guys, although I just realized my error.... trying to fix it now.
[01:16:08] sphery: cool
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[01:38:53] petre: any word on driver support for the Hauppauge 2250?
[01:39:07] sphery: iamlindoro_: in your playing with the menu stuff, you wouldn't happen to have found the code that's doing watermarks for the menus, would you?
[01:42:16] oobe: iamlindoro_, i noticed lately that the metacleanup script is naming files differently instead of 3x07 show name episode title it is naming them s03e07 show name do you know anything about this was wondering if it was a change to ragetv or somthing on my system
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[01:42:34] iamlindoro_: sphery: I think that's in myththemedmenu.cpp, no? (but sounds like you alraedy got an answer in #mythtv)
[01:42:36] sphery: iamlindoro_: nvm... it's sorted.
[01:42:54] sphery: right--and you were too quick in replying. sorry to you, also
[01:43:32] iamlindoro_: oobe, Mine should always rename them, sounds like a local issue
[01:43:41] iamlindoro_: oobe, Just ran it on some new files and they were named correctly
[01:43:52] iamlindoro_: "Firefly 1x12 – Trash"
[01:44:08] oobe: must be somthing to do with my mythtv updates
[01:44:16] iamlindoro_: oobe, Oh, wait, I take that back
[01:44:23] iamlindoro_: you're right, something has changed ragetv side
[01:44:39] iamlindoro_: well, the script is deprecated, there is something better coming for .22 but you'll need to hang in there until then
[01:44:51] oobe: thats ok
[01:45:01] wagnerrp: petre: despite the desireability of such a card, seems driver development has stalled
[01:45:19] iamlindoro_: oobe, Not because I'm trying to keep it from anyone, but just because I'm not the one working on it
[01:45:22] oobe: but your files are still named correctly so the ragetv site hasent effected your script for you
[01:45:28] wagnerrp: last update on progress was mid-december
[01:45:46] iamlindoro_: oobe, No, I just mistaked an old file for a new, I'm seeing the same rename issue
[01:45:53] iamlindoro_: mistook
[01:45:54] oobe: oh ok
[01:45:55] petre: wagnerrp, yes, I saw that on the wiki, in the table at the top of the page
[01:46:12] petre: but the text below the table suggested work was being done yet
[01:46:12] oobe: im working around it by combining script with another
[01:46:47] petre: seems like a highly desirable tuner card; I wonder why development has stalled
[01:46:54] kormoc: iamlindoro, you know, I just realized, the guy's name was prometh, or pro meth. No wonder he was so screwy
[01:47:02] iamlindoro_: kormoc, Hahahah
[01:47:14] wagnerrp: mid-december was the last word about any work on it
[01:47:26] petre: are there any other dual digital tuner cards?
[01:47:27] iamlindoro_: Real life intervenes, the drivers author is busy
[01:47:40] wagnerrp: hdhomerun
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[01:47:55] iamlindoro_: There's a Fusion HDTV 7 series with two tuners IIRC
[01:48:50] iamlindoro_: http://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/DViCO_F . . . Dual_Express
[01:49:03] iamlindoro_: But the HDHomeRun is certainly the best supported dual ATSC/QAM tuner
[01:49:18] sphery: kormoc: if only we had noticed earlier...
[01:49:26] kormoc: indeed
[01:49:39] wagnerrp: the only fault of the HDHR is the lack of multirec
[01:50:02] wagnerrp: seems no one has both the knowledge and motivation to do so
[01:50:16] iamlindoro_: explains the love of flash
[01:50:26] iamlindoro_: "gotta keep moving... gotta keep moving..."
[01:50:30] sphery: kormoc: so I was going to work on the detect DB corruption patch (which shouldn't take long) and then the channel icons from the backend patch, but updating my outstanding patches to current trunk took all day...  :(
[01:50:49] iamlindoro_: makes you wonder if he sees this in his nightmares: http://www.svachon.com/catapult/small2.jpg
[01:51:07] Shadow_M: multirec? record from both tuner or record multiple channels from within one stream
[01:51:17] iamlindoro_: Multirec is the latter
[01:51:23] sphery: multiple channels from one multiplex
[01:51:24] kormoc: Yeah, it's not like it's all that 'amazing'
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[01:51:53] petre: I don't understand how the HomeRun works with myth
[01:51:55] iamlindoro_: kormoc, not to mention all perfectly doable with the GL renderer and once there's a video background widget
[01:52:06] Shadow_M: yeah it really depends how good ur multiplexes are
[01:52:20] wagnerrp: petre: mythtv simply controls and captures the mpeg streams over the network
[01:52:25] sphery: iamlindoro_: I hope your theme will never have a video background
[01:52:27] iamlindoro_: kormoc, composite the video with medium alpha over the image, then the text list over that... done
[01:52:38] iamlindoro_: sphery, No, but it *will* make liberal use of the video widget
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[01:52:39] wagnerrp: no need for linux drivers of any sort
[01:52:57] kormoc: here's his linkedin profile, http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenvachon
[01:53:10] kormoc: he is late 20's at least
[01:53:11] iamlindoro_: sphery, the empty boxes on each screen are for recording preview/trailer preview/mythmusic visualization
[01:53:18] sphery: kormoc: nice call on the age
[01:53:20] petre: so it could be streaming video to the mythbox while the mythbox is streaming out to other frontends?
[01:53:25] iamlindoro_: "self taught"
[01:53:47] wagnerrp: petre: thats the idea
[01:53:56] iamlindoro_: (not that I am not, but I don't claim to be capable of writing what the myth UI API should be either)
[01:54:11] petre: 100Mb pipe big enough for that?
[01:54:24] sphery: iamlindoro_: no mention of his people skills, either
[01:54:45] wagnerrp: with multirec, on QAM, the MOST an HDHR can pump out is 78mbps
[01:54:59] wagnerrp: which should not be a problem with proper bi-directional 10/100
[01:55:16] wagnerrp: however without multirec, about the most you will ever see out of the HDHR is ~35mbps
[01:55:32] petre: right, but then the myth box could be streaming out video to other devices
[01:55:44] wagnerrp: which should work even if you have a hub (rather than a switch)
[01:55:53] petre: or is the hdhr supposed to be on it's own dedicated network with the myth box?
[01:56:22] petre: i.e., two nics in the myth box, one for recording from hdhr and one to feed the frontends around the house?
[01:56:24] wagnerrp: if you have a 100mbps card, with a proper network, you can both send and receive 100mbps simultaneously
[01:57:07] wagnerrp: there is no need for a dedicated NIC for the HDHR
[01:57:36] petre: what do you mean by 'no multirec'?
[01:57:54] wagnerrp: multirec was build for the dvb subsystem
[01:57:55] kormoc: sphery, Well, updated patches is quite the happy for everyone, so good work! :P
[01:58:08] wagnerrp: no one has bothered rewriting that ability for the hdhr code
[01:58:30] wagnerrp: so you can only capture one subchannel per tuner
[01:58:34] wagnerrp: rather than one multiplex per tuner
[01:58:59] petre: wagnerrp, that's not so bad, same as what I've got now
[01:59:45] petre: with my hauppauge dual ntsc card
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[02:01:22] wagnerrp: anyway, you should have no trouble receiving two streams, and then resending them to two frontends simultaneously
[02:01:36] iamlindoro_: god, that guy even looks like a douche
[02:01:45] iamlindoro_: http://media.linkedin.com/mpr/mpr/shrink_80_8 . . . /30e8b72.jpg
[02:05:14] GreyFoxx: who is that ?
[02:05:26] iamlindoro_: flash UI guy
[02:05:29] GreyFoxx: oh
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[02:13:38] kormoc: iamlindoro, I'll do one better, http://twitter.com/account/profile_image/svachon
[02:14:29] iamlindoro_: I'll see your chin and raise you another
[02:14:47] iamlindoro_: wait, isn't he stephen vachon, though
[02:14:50] iamlindoro_: ?
[02:15:02] kormoc: hrm
[02:15:06] kormoc: perhaps google failed me
[02:15:45] ** iamlindoro_ wonders whether he twitter photo is as unflattering **
[02:15:47] kormoc: same username but yeah, different person it seems, no mention of flash on the guys twitter account
[02:15:48] iamlindoro_: er his
[02:16:08] iamlindoro_: which is to say, my own
[02:18:11] sphery: this is why I don't have a facebook, twitter, myspace, linkedin, ... account.
[02:19:14] iamlindoro_: I have three of four-- but seldom log in to any
[02:19:33] iamlindoro_: interesting who from college will decide you were ever friends after a few years
[02:20:47] kormoc: sphery, oh really? http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-T-Dean/9614463 :P
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[02:21:22] kormoc: I will blindly believe anything google tells me from a search result!
[02:21:38] sphery: I really haven't made any... I have met 5 other people named Michael Dean.
[02:22:11] kormoc: there's two with the same middle initial
[02:22:38] sphery: OK, that's definitely not me. I'm a bit narrower and don't have the hair on top, anymore.
[02:23:03] sphery: I'm not the Orthopedic surgeon, either.
[02:23:26] kormoc: my faith in the google is crushed, oh noes!
[02:23:38] kormoc: and so you know, I'm quite hopped up on cold meds
[02:23:48] kormoc: so take everything I say with a grain of salt
[02:23:48] sphery: heh
[02:24:32] sphery: seems you can pretty much exclude any Google result that doesn't have something to do with open source if you want to see me...
[02:25:11] sphery: good thing this isn't me... http://www.funkfuneralhome.com/obit-guestbook . . . amp;id=32705
[02:25:45] wagnerrp: something just seems wrong with 'funkfuneralhome'
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[02:26:47] GreyFoxx: most of the first few pages I find are me. a lot of stuff from code I use to give away back in the early 90's
[02:26:54] GreyFoxx: before opensource was cool ;)
[02:27:27] GreyFoxx: Ahh yeah, hand tooled inline ASM inside pascal....comment on every line.... long time since I commented every line ;) http://www.bsdg.org/SWAG/FILES/0049.PAS.html
[02:27:40] GreyFoxx: I use to be arfeak for comments
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[02:29:17] sphery: GreyFoxx: wondering if that's you with Einstein in the 1st Google result (searching just for your first and last name), or perhaps the facebook guy?
[02:30:23] GreyFoxx: Nope, that's not me :)
[02:30:32] sphery: :)
[02:30:54] sphery: I'm seeing some of that pascal, though
[02:32:59] GreyFoxx: Wow, search google groups finds a lot more of the code though
[02:33:17] GreyFoxx: I lost all of it years ago, I should try and gather it up heh
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[02:34:10] phunyguy: laff
[02:34:16] sphery: cool... nice to have Google for online storage
[02:34:16] phunyguy: ok what deinterlacer do you guys recommend?
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[02:34:29] phunyguy: that is obviosuly my issue
[02:34:42] dustybin: i use linear-blend, works ace for me
[02:34:49] phunyguy: i disconnected my cable for the video source so no video would play...
[02:34:55] sphery: phunyguy: kernel, linear blend, one field are not bad and don't trigger the slowdown in the LiveTV EPG
[02:34:57] phunyguy: menu flies
[02:35:00] phunyguy: and flies some more
[02:35:11] GreyFoxx: I use to use greedyhx2, but now I'm using the VDPAU advanced 2x
[02:35:25] phunyguy: ok, you can use more than one?
[02:35:33] sphery: greedyh x2 will trigger the slowdown
[02:35:34] phunyguy: oh
[02:35:38] phunyguy: wait i get it
[02:35:50] phunyguy: lol sorry about jumpin into #mythtv
[02:35:56] phunyguy: (was that you that yelled at me)
[02:36:10] phunyguy: it was an honest /join typo
[02:36:23] sphery: you specify a primary deinterlacer and a fallback deinterlacer (in case the primary doesn't work) in your playback profile. only one gets used
[02:36:33] sphery: yeah, it was me, but I don't think I "yelled"
[02:36:47] phunyguy: stop being literal
[02:36:49] phunyguy: :P
[02:37:01] sphery: you're not the first/only person to join the wrong channel by mistake, so we're used to it.  :)
[02:37:34] phunyguy: yeah yeah
[02:37:37] phunyguy: it was bound to happen
[02:37:49] phunyguy: let me test new settings
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[02:39:35] sphery: phunyguy: If you still have issues, I recommend making your own custom playback profile group that has only one profile > 0 0, ffmpeg, xv-blit using kernel then linearblend for deint and no filters (anything you want for OSD renderer and fade)
[02:40:05] sphery: if you have issues with that, it's likely something else causing the slowness
[02:40:48] sphery: (though, really, try osd fade off if all else fails, that might be important)
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[02:47:07] gizmobay: Does anyone know where I can download mythvodka?
[02:47:30] gizmobay: The link in the wiki gives a bad package when untraing
[02:48:01] gizmobay: *untar'ing
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[02:48:45] phunyguy: hmm spherry
[02:48:49] phunyguy: its still slow.
[02:48:57] phunyguy: this time it takes forever to even get to the guide.
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[02:49:56] phunyguy: sphery*
[02:52:18] phunyguy: oh didnt see your messages
[02:52:22] phunyguy: they scrolled off my tiny window
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[02:54:58] sphery: phunyguy: If you still have issues, I recommend making your own custom playback profile group that has only one profile > 0 0, ffmpeg, xv-blit using kernel then linearblend for deint and no filters, and OSD Fade off. if you have issues with that, it's likely something else causing the slowness
[02:55:13] sphery: note that MySQL is a prime candidate for slow guide, too
[02:56:22] phunyguy: ffmpeg isnt coming up in the list
[02:56:24] phunyguy: :-/
[02:56:29] sphery: standard?
[02:56:35] phunyguy: yeah
[02:56:35] unimaginative: Yeah, my guide is slow also, but it didnt' become slow until I added my digital tuners
[02:56:52] sphery: use standard, then
[02:57:03] sphery: (I forgot the UI name for it)
[02:57:04] phunyguy: ok.
[02:57:16] sphery: standard = ffmpeg
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[02:58:13] sphery: unimaginative: that could happen due to using the wrong playback profile group. If yours is CPU+, change it to Slim.
[02:58:20] phunyguy: ok.. i will test.
[02:58:34] unimaginative: sphery, oh, thanks, I'll try that.
[02:59:01] sphery: unimaginative: (actually, you should change it to Slim, anyway, but I'm guessing it's CPU+ just because it would give the behavior you describe--guide becomes slow once you start using digital capture)
[02:59:24] unimaginative: sphery, it's slow even if I'm watching an analog stream
[02:59:27] sphery: though Slim would require a pretty powerful CPU for decoding
[02:59:47] unimaginative: it just seemed to get slow after I added my digital tuner as a source
[02:59:47] sphery: unimaginative: if that's the case, it could be channel icons
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[02:59:59] sphery: i.e. broken source/channel configuration
[03:00:13] unimaginative: I can disable channel icons and see how it acts
[03:00:42] sphery: even disabled, it will be slow if they're improperly defined
[03:00:50] sphery: you have to fix the data in the DB
[03:00:55] unimaginative: hmm
[03:00:57] unimaginative: just a sec
[03:01:31] sphery: making sure that every file specified for an icon is available (exists and is accessible by the user running mythfrontend) on every frontend
[03:01:47] unimaginative: the icons aren't streamed?
[03:01:55] unimaginative: (forgive me if that's a stupid question
[03:01:57] unimaginative: )
[03:01:58] sphery: SELECT chanid, channum, callsign, icon FROM channel;
[03:02:02] sphery: nope, not streamed
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[03:02:23] sphery: that was that patch I was supposed to be working on today...
[03:02:34] unimaginative: that's probably it, I'm using a seperate backend and I don't think I have a channel icons folder on my frontends
[03:02:41] phunyguy: yeah... that didn't work.
[03:02:46] phunyguy: still sluggish
[03:02:49] phunyguy: err
[03:02:52] sphery: phunyguy: then I think it's something else causing issues
[03:02:52] phunyguy: non-operational
[03:02:56] sphery: not deinterlace
[03:02:58] phunyguy: i just wish i knew what
[03:03:06] phunyguy: im at my wits end with this
[03:03:13] sphery: if you did the UPDATE channel SET icon = ''; then it's not the channel icons
[03:03:21] phunyguy: well heres what i did
[03:03:29] phunyguy: i shut down mythfrontend
[03:03:35] phunyguy: ssh'd in to that box with -X
[03:03:44] phunyguy: loaded up mythfrontend so it would really take out the video
[03:03:51] phunyguy: EPG came up like a champ
[03:04:00] phunyguy: with all icons
[03:04:07] phunyguy: there was just no video in the corner
[03:04:30] unimaginative: sphery, when you get time, does this look odd? http://rafb.net/p/eQ27HP11.html
[03:04:43] sphery: phunyguy: do me a favor and pastebin the output of: SELECT chanid, channum, callsign, icon FROM channel;
[03:05:45] phunyguy: hmm
[03:05:47] phunyguy: access denied
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[03:05:57] phunyguy: cant get into the database
[03:06:25] unimaginative: sphery, haha, I'm such an idiot
[03:06:30] phunyguy: bah.
[03:06:35] phunyguy: what is the damn password – lol
[03:06:40] phunyguy: it created a random one
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[03:06:43] unimaginative: sphery, the backend has no /home/mythtv/.mythtv directory, period.
[03:06:55] phunyguy: how do i know what the password is?
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[03:07:04] unimaginative: sphery, the frontends have /home/mythtv/.mythtv, but are missing the "channels" subdirectory
[03:07:22] unimaginative: sphery, do I need the "channels" icon folder on the backend?
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[03:08:23] sphery: unimaginative: the pastebin is almost fine if ~/.mythtv/channels exists on all frontends (and contains all the files in there)
[03:08:52] sphery: unimaginative: the backend has no need for channels folder, but frontends (including MythWeb hosts) do
[03:09:01] unimaginative: ahh, okay..
[03:09:10] phunyguy: spherry: http://pastebin.ca/1307762
[03:09:22] sphery: unimaginative: however, you should fix the icon for TH!S: UPDATE channel SET icon = '' WHERE chanid = 5247;
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[03:09:33] unimaginative: sphery, ok
[03:10:12] unimaginative: one
[03:10:13] unimaginative: done
[03:10:22] unimaginative: now I need to find my channel icons backup folder
[03:10:43] sphery: phunyguy: that looks good as long as /home/phunyguy/.mythtv/channels/ (and all the files referenced within) exists on all frontends
[03:10:54] phunyguy: its just one frontend
[03:11:00] phunyguy: yeah so it cant be the icons
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[03:11:03] phunyguy: *cry*
[03:11:20] sphery: phunyguy: and you're running mythfrontend as user phunyguy ?
[03:12:08] phunyguy: waaaaaaaaait a min
[03:12:15] phunyguy: icon owners are root
[03:12:18] phunyguy: will that matter?
[03:13:03] unimaginative: gah, now I need to compare the results of that mysql command with the actual contents of the 'channels' icons folder.
[03:13:14] sphery: phunyguy: please pastebin: ls -ld /home/phunyguy{,.mythtv{,wjct_pbc7_jacksonville.jpg}}
[03:13:58] unimaginative: sphery, can I just 'touch' the filenames that are not present, and update them later?
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[03:14:04] unimaginative: or will it still bork the guide?
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[03:14:45] sphery: phunyguy: oops: ls -ld /home/phunyguy{,/.mythtv{,/channels{,/wjct_pbc7_jacksonville.jpg}}}
[03:15:23] sphery: unimaginative: that might work, but it might not (depending on whether we handle corrupt/invalid images as poorly as missing images :)
[03:15:29] sphery: worth a try, though
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[03:17:02] phunyguy: http://pastebin.ca/1307768, sphery.
[03:18:28] unimaginative: bleh, I'm just wiping them all for now, I don't need channel icons that bad at the moment
[03:18:50] unimaginative: much, MUCH more responsive, thanks sphery
[03:18:51] sphery: unimaginative: UPDATE channel SET icon = '';
[03:18:57] sphery: enjoy
[03:19:06] sphery: now you know when you do update them how to make it work.  :)
[03:19:22] phunyguy: sphery it has to be the owner
[03:19:27] phunyguy: can't hurt to chown
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[03:19:32] sphery: phunyguy: those file perms should work
[03:19:36] phunyguy: argh.
[03:19:42] sphery: doesn't hurt to chown, but won't help
[03:19:55] phunyguy: *bashes head*
[03:20:20] unimaginative: now I jsut wish I could figure out why I can't tune any digital channels
[03:20:35] sphery: unimaginative: did you do a channel scan?
[03:20:54] phunyguy: what card unimaginative
[03:21:11] phunyguy: it may be set to the wrong type
[03:21:13] unimaginative: sphery, I restored the channels table from my old backend, then made sure the input matched
[03:21:14] phunyguy: i had that same issue
[03:21:24] unimaginative: phunyguy, it's a silicondust hdhomerun
[03:21:33] phunyguy: oh ok, dont have one of those
[03:21:51] wagnerrp: the scan worked, but tuning does not?
[03:22:07] HRearden: can anyone help? I'm running SVN as of last night. New install, not upgrade. No matter what theme I try, I get no icons displaying. Message about error loading image to scale.
[03:22:18] wagnerrp: HRearden: svn of what?
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[03:22:25] HRearden: mythfrontend
[03:22:30] wagnerrp: HRearden: svn of what?
[03:22:41] wagnerrp: specifically, what branch
[03:22:46] unimaginative: wagnerrp, I did not scan on this new backend (with the cards out of the old backend) because the mythtv scan didn't pick up the channels that were actually available.
[03:22:48] phunyguy: there, i chowned, but my wife is gonna get mad soon – she is trying to watch TV
[03:22:49] HRearden: trunk
[03:22:54] sphery: HRearden: trunk? If so, rm -r ~/.mythtv/{osd,theme}cache
[03:23:20] phunyguy: sphery, in theory i should be able to connect to that mythbackenbd from here?
[03:23:44] phunyguy: how do i know what the password is?
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[03:23:49] wagnerrp: cards? you said you had an HDHR
[03:24:14] unimaginative: wagnerrp, I have an HDHR and a PVR150
[03:24:18] HRearden: nope. did rm, still no icons.
[03:24:19] sphery: phunyguy: connect to the backend how? where's here (same network)?
[03:24:28] wagnerrp: do you live in the US?
[03:24:41] unimaginative: wagnerrp, yes.
[03:24:44] phunyguy: same network
[03:24:54] phunyguy: yes, just a different PC with frontend
[03:25:09] sphery: HRearden: you may want to rm -r /usr/{,local/}share/mythtv/themes and then reinstall mythtv, mythplugins, myththemes, and themes
[03:25:10] wagnerrp: you shouldnt be doing an analog scan, SD will take care of that. but you need to do a digital scan if you do not already
[03:25:13] phunyguy: i can connect but it doesnt like the password i thoguht was right
[03:25:26] wagnerrp: go into the info section, status, check if the HDHR is actually shown as connected
[03:25:42] sphery: HRearden: oh, wait... you said it's a new install, not an upgrade...
[03:25:47] HRearden: right.
[03:25:53] phunyguy: i copied the password from the other frontend
[03:25:55] phunyguy: and no go.
[03:25:56] wagnerrp: my HDHR works fine on 0.21-fixes, but does not work with trunk
[03:26:02] wagnerrp: i havent gotten around to figuring out why
[03:26:02] phunyguy: maybe the port was wrong? I didnt change it....
[03:26:06] sphery: HRearden: have you checked permissions/location of the files it's complaining about
[03:26:11] HRearden: And it's a friggin via, I don't want to recompile.
[03:26:59] sphery: I always leave a copy of my compiled source dirs (in a tar file--bzip2'ed if I have the time) for just that reason :)
[03:27:20] sphery: actually, 2 tars--one for mythtv and mythplugins, the other for themes
[03:27:35] HRearden: Owned by root. Of course, at the moment, I'm running as root (don't tell...)
[03:27:53] unimaginative: wagnerrp, I didn't do a channel scan on the analog either, that one I pulled from SD like you said. I guess I should wipe the digital channels in my channels table and do a digital scan, then re-add the missing channels manually again.
[03:28:28] phunyguy: nevermind – stupid l looked like a i
[03:28:29] sphery: HRearden: hmmm... Don't know what could cause that, then.
[03:28:33] unimaginative: sphery, if I delete the digital tuners on my HDHR with mythtv-setup, will it delete the corresponding entries in the 'channels' table?
[03:28:44] wagnerrp: incorrect
[03:29:00] sphery: unimaginative: if you delete a video source, it deletes channels... if you delete capture cards, it deletes only the capture card(s)
[03:29:24] unimaginative: sphery, okay, I'd have to delete the source corresponding to the cards as well then.
[03:29:42] wagnerrp: no need to delete the card
[03:29:46] wagnerrp: just the source
[03:29:49] wagnerrp: theyre independent
[03:29:56] unimaginative: ahh, okay.
[03:30:24] sphery: unimaginative: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034
[03:30:46] sphery: unimaginative: and make sure you don't do a scan on the analog channels
[03:31:19] unimaginative: sphery, ok
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[03:32:31] phunyguy: ok i give up on another frontend...
[03:32:46] phunyguy: any other ideas spring to mind, sphery?
[03:32:55] phunyguy: i am so ready to toss this project.
[03:33:19] sphery: sorry... don't know what else it could be
[03:33:30] phunyguy: ok, well i do appreciate your help with this.
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[03:33:37] phunyguy: you get a cookie.
[03:33:40] sphery: good luck with it
[03:33:45] sphery: mmmm. coookie
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[03:37:05] phunyguy: ok i am going to bed
[03:37:07] phunyguy: <3
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[03:55:42] HRearden: sphery? Starting over here – perhaps I needed to do that anyway... Getting an error about QtWebKit headers not found. Patch history shows you solving this, though?
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[03:56:06] HRearden: On Gentoo, FYI.
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[03:56:53] sphery: PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/qt/lib/pkgconfig:$PKG_CONFIG_PATH perhaps
[03:56:54] wagnerrp: you probably need to install qtwebkit
[03:57:49] wagnerrp: emerge x11-libs/qt-webkit
[03:58:06] HRearden: yeah, apparently my stupididty knows no bounds tnoight.
[03:58:11] HRearden: tonight. See!
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[04:00:57] HRearden: so do I install qt-webkit 4.4.2 even though I'm running qt 4.3.3 ?
[04:01:09] wagnerrp: you should install matching versions
[04:01:18] wagnerrp: either force 4.3.3, or update everything
[04:01:45] HRearden: gentoo only HAS webkit 4.4.2.....
[04:01:52] wagnerrp: although there is no longer an ebuild for 4.3.3, so you have to upgrade
[04:02:08] wagnerrp: 'emerge -uD x11-libs/qt-webkit' should do it
[04:03:05] HRearden: so upgrading QT to 4.4.2 is OK? -uD won't do it,since the only ebuild that exists is 4.4.2.
[04:03:26] wagnerrp: there is 4.4.0, 4.4.1, and 4.4.2
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[04:04:00] HRearden: Not in gentoo :) only 4.4.2
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[04:04:00] Chicago: I have too much trouble with the linuxtv.org hg repo for v4l-dvb.
[04:04:16] HRearden: As long as Myth doesn't care, I'll upgrade.
[04:04:17] wagnerrp: '-D' should do a 'deep' scan, updating everything that webkit depends on, and then backtracing and updating everything that depends on qt
[04:04:37] wagnerrp: well my sync from a few days ago still has the other two
[04:05:00] HRearden: oh, right. Except everything is ~x86, so I'm putting those in package.keywords as I go.
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[04:17:14] HRearden: OK. I'm losing it. wagnerrp, did you get qt-4.4.x to emerge with mysql support?
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[04:18:06] wagnerrp: yes, i put 'mysql' into my USE variable, and it took care of everything for me
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[04:18:45] wagnerrp: also, if you want, you can install trunk though portage
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[04:19:32] wagnerrp: just add an overlay, copy over the most recent mythtv ebuild, change the name to the current revision, and digest it
[04:19:33] Chicago: wagnerrp: Do you use media-tv/v4l-dvb-hg?
[04:19:56] wagnerrp: i did at one point... i had to use it to get my 1250 working
[04:20:06] wagnerrp: but recent kernels support the drivers i need, dont use it anymore
[04:20:18] Chicago: I have problems.
[04:20:37] sphery: HRearden: I know nothing about Gentoo/emerge/... but kormoc just gave Cardoe an updated ebuild for mythtv trunk...
[04:20:39] Chicago: Whether I use the linuxtv.org repo or the media-tv/v4l-dvb-hg package.... I get kernel Panics.
[04:20:59] sphery: he posted the link in #mythtv earlier tonight
[04:21:08] HRearden: ahh, no longer a use flag on qt-4-4–2, but off of qt-sql-4.4.2. Strange things happening in gentoo and qt 4.4.x
[04:21:45] wagnerrp: sphery: ill have to check that out
[04:22:18] wagnerrp: probably just a dependency fix
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[04:25:54] HRearden: more like a split-ebuild thing vs. monolithic, similar to the way they do kde.
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[04:28:57] wagnerrp: what would you split beyond what they currently do?
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[04:29:25] HRearden: the qt thing – it's now like 12 separate ebuilds
[04:29:38] wagnerrp: i thought you were talking about mythtv
[04:30:17] HRearden: i don't like the idea of an ebuild there, since it would do a complete re-compile everytime. On my Via it would take FOREVER.
[04:30:36] wagnerrp: ebuild where?
[04:30:49] HRearden: at least if it works like a normal ebuild (the mythtv ebuild mentioned above).
[04:32:11] wagnerrp: set up distcc, and take the load off the via box
[04:32:34] Chicago: and use ccache
[04:32:38] wagnerrp: or, move to a distro thats NOT about compiling everything locally
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[04:33:16] HRearden: Yeah, Yeah. for a long time, gentoo was the best for getting strange things supported on the via's – openchrome, etc.
[04:33:26] Chicago: I am trying genkernel now in order to figure out which modules were missing on my custom kernel in order to get this HVR-1600 running.
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[04:38:28] wagnerrp: well i got my HDHR fixed
[04:39:02] wagnerrp: my iscsi boot script was partially screwed up, and was on the wrong (overly large) subnet, making auto-detect not work
[04:39:32] wagnerrp: but that doesnt explain why an IP would work on -fixes, but not trunk
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[04:49:15] Paladine: well for all the sceptics out there my little transmeta crusoe thin client box is now working perfectly as a myth backend running at about 12W :p
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[04:49:54] wagnerrp: should work find for recording off encoder or digital cards, but thats it
[04:50:20] wagnerrp: dont expect commflagging, transcoding, or video playback of anything but standard definition
[04:50:31] Paladine: comflagging is working fine
[04:50:49] wagnerrp: im guessing at far less than realtime
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[04:50:55] kormoc: wagnerrp, https://www.kormoc.com/trac/browser/portage
[04:50:59] Paladine: I don't transcode so that is not an issue and I use VLC to watch the recordings
[04:51:11] tritium: Paladine: standard definition, I presume?
[04:51:18] Paladine: yes
[04:51:25] Paladine: Sky SD in the UK
[04:51:35] kormoc: wagnerrp, current revision is just before the -vid merge, they're almost done ironing out the bugs enough for me to jump to head again, so in a week or two I'll be back to head
[04:51:41] Paladine: it is even running dusky control for changing the STB channels with no problems
[04:52:10] Paladine: I thought sound was borked for all of about 5 minutes until i checked alsa mixer and noticed that capture was muted :)
[04:52:42] tritium: I can believe SD. If you said High Definition, I'd be skeptical.
[04:52:56] Paladine: no way it would run HD
[04:53:02] Paladine: I would need an atom at least for that
[04:53:17] wagnerrp: an atom wont manage HD
[04:53:21] Paladine: but since I don't have HD it is not an issue :)
[04:53:29] kormoc: wagnerrp, with vdpau it should :)
[04:53:33] wagnerrp: that atom isnt considerably faster than your crusoe chip
[04:53:41] Paladine: still 12W for a perfectly functional mythbackend is pretty damn good I think
[04:53:42] kormoc: wagnerrp, the nvidia ion platform looks amazingly tempting
[04:54:13] Paladine: it was always just an experiment and I expected it to fail, so I am pleasantly suprised it works
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[04:54:54] Paladine: now I just need to strip down mythbuntu to remove all the bloat (such as X)
[04:55:11] Paladine: and upgrade it from 256MB to 512MB RAM
[04:55:19] kormoc: why wouldn't it work? you have hardware mpeg-2 encoding on the card, so really all it needs to do to work is handle two streams of io at the same time (one to record, one to send out). Seems to me that it shouldn't have been an issue
[04:55:48] Paladine: kormoc, cos I had to make significant changes to the thin client for a start
[04:55:57] wagnerrp: Paladine: you need X to run a backend
[04:56:19] wagnerrp: unless you mean you just dont want it actively running
[04:56:26] Paladine: I had to remove the flash DOM with windows CE on and replace it with a 2.5" IDE drive, I also had to get a PCI expander module to get the PVR-150 in, then I had to make significant changes to the case
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[04:57:06] kormoc: none of which is technically an issue that would prevent myth from working
[04:57:08] ** kormoc shrugs **
[04:57:17] Paladine: wagnerrp, now I have run myth-setup and everything is working as it should, I have no need for X as the box will be headless, keyboard and mouseless
[04:57:31] kormoc: other then QT requiring it
[04:57:41] kormoc: but that whole reality thing is optional
[04:58:01] Paladine: why do I need QT for mythbackend?
[04:58:10] kormoc: because it's a QT application?
[04:58:44] Paladine: it is?
[04:58:48] kormoc: yes
[04:58:55] Paladine: I always assumed QT was only used for GUI based apps
[04:58:59] wagnerrp: it uses the QT file libraries, and various other objects
[04:59:02] kormoc: ldd `which mythbackend`
[04:59:09] wagnerrp: as well as mythtv-setup being a QT app
[04:59:20] Paladine: I know mythtv-setup is
[04:59:24] Paladine: I never realised mythbackend was
[04:59:51] Paladine: I could presumably just stop X from running though and it won't effect mythbackend?
[04:59:55] clever: the backend needs all the gui libs also
[04:59:57] kormoc: that is correct
[04:59:58] Paladine: just trying to free up system resources
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[05:02:28] kormoc: RyeBrye, but but but I require http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146766
[05:02:37] wagnerrp: RyeBrye: PC100 is still fairly expensive
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[05:03:04] wagnerrp: what do you need 4GB DIMMs for?
[05:03:30] wagnerrp: and why do you need 'mac certified' memory
[05:03:33] Chicago: kormoc: Why so expensive for DDR2 667 at that density?
[05:03:33] kormoc: wagnerrp, gluttony?
[05:03:47] ** kormoc shrugs **
[05:03:54] wagnerrp: Chicago: its buffered ECC... but more specifically its 'mac certified'
[05:03:57] kormoc: wagnerrp, well, I do have a mac pro... :P
[05:04:17] Paladine: RyeBrye, I have more RAM I bought a 1GB stick but sadly the BIOS only supports upto 512MB so I need to buy another one
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[05:04:27] kormoc: nah, you can get way cheaper mac certified memory, that just happened to be the most costly ram I could find
[05:04:28] Paladine: it will cost all of $10
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[05:05:22] kormoc: whoops, here is even more costly http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134627
[05:06:27] Chicago: DDR2 400 even!
[05:06:49] Chicago: That's more expensive obviously because it's more scarce and old, right?
[05:07:21] kormoc: that's IBM eServer xSeries certified memory
[05:07:34] Chicago: and it's supposed to run at 2.0v but my motherboard is only giving it 1.8v.
[05:08:11] wagnerrp: in comparison, you could get a pair of crucial 800 fb-dimms for under $400
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[05:08:39] wagnerrp: or 667 for under $300
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[05:09:33] wagnerrp: im amazed though. those mushkins actually have meaningful heatsinks
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[05:09:44] wagnerrp: as opposed to puny 'heat spreaders'
[05:10:07] Chicago: Okay, help. I just am on about the 6th kernel build of the day here in order to get the cx18 driver working.
[05:10:28] Chicago: My dmesg is polluted with :cx18: disagrees about version of symbol video_register_device
[05:10:35] Chicago: Unknown symbol video_register_device
[05:11:29] Chicago: and then goes on with the same for cx2341x_ctrl_get_menu, dvb_frontend_detach, dvb_net_release cx2341x_log_status cx2341x_fill_defaults dvb_unregister_frontend dvb_retister_frontend v4l2_chip_match_host, tveeprom_hauppauge_analog, video_device_release and dvb_unregister_adapter.
[05:11:47] Chicago: I'm trying too hard.
[05:11:58] Chicago: Someone with more experience should guide me.
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[05:35:50] Chicago: What is the meaning of these errors while trying to load the cx18 module? -> http://pastebin.ca/1307841
[05:36:27] wagnerrp: it means your drivers are not built against your kernel
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[05:40:25] Chicago: wagnerrp: Well, the order of operations I used was. 1.) emerge genkernel 2.) genkernel all -lvm 3.) reboot 4.) emerge v4l-dvb-hg 5.) update-module -f, reboot.
[05:40:49] Chicago: After that failed, I thought maybe I needed to run 'genkernel all --lvm' again....but that didn't fix it.
[05:40:53] Chicago: Can you throw me another clue?
[05:40:55] wagnerrp: ive never used genkernel
[05:41:16] wagnerrp: i dont know if genkernel automatically moves the kernel into the proper place, and sets up grub to boot off them
[05:41:17] Chicago: I don't prefer to use genkernel at all.
[05:41:47] Chicago: Except, if I just use gentoo-sources, I get a kernel panic and can't boot... (only when the cx18 driver is built.)
[05:42:09] wagnerrp: but regardless, thats kind of error you get if are trying to load a module built for a different kernel
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[05:43:16] clever: genkernel puts the kernel into /boot, but i had to configure grub manualy
[05:43:36] clever: the main reason i was forced to use genkernel was to get a initrd with lvm
[05:44:36] wagnerrp: build your own
[05:45:01] oobe: hello ChanServ you seem to be on every network i go on how it going
[05:45:05] clever: yes i could do that, but its alot more complex to make one from scratch then it first seems
[05:45:20] wagnerrp: not once you figure out how
[05:45:44] clever: ive made slight changes to the ubuntu one but that was just adding hook scrits to the existing structure
[05:45:55] clever: so that it did a --bind mount extremely early on
[05:46:12] Chicago: Well, here's the brakes for me.... don't know howto boot my machine with the HVR-1600 inside of it...
[05:46:34] Chicago: If I boot a kernel with a cx18 driver in /lib/modules... then I kernel panic.
[05:46:35] wagnerrp: i built one based off http://wpkg.org/Diskless_/_remote_boot_with_Open_iSCSI
[05:46:40] Chicago: If I don't have the driver, then I can boot...
[05:46:43] wagnerrp: fairly painless once i figured out how to do it properly
[05:46:46] Chicago: but, if I don't have the driver then I can't use the card.
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[06:45:07] Chicago: wagnerrp: Done for tonight with the 1600... it's out of the PC.
[06:45:09] Chicago: done.
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[07:20:24] hachi: how's trunk?
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[07:20:38] kormoc: trunky
[07:20:53] wagnerrp: revisioned
[07:21:05] hachi: heh
[07:21:20] hachi: I really badly need to figure out my DVB card
[07:21:35] hachi: mythtv thinks that I have 50 channels of VH1 on it
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[07:23:08] hachi: do any of you fine folks have pointers for what to do when you hit that sort of situation?
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[07:25:24] Chicago: hachi: I usually try it again and hope I can find my mistake... usually involving deleting my video sources and capture cards... then adding them again and scanning for channels.
[07:26:59] hachi: I've done that many times, actually
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[07:27:34] hachi: I think the channels as mythtv sees them are not lining up with schedules direct
[07:27:45] hachi: and I wasn't able to figure out how to reassign them
[07:28:11] hachi: I mean, I went into the channel editor and tried to make things line up
[07:28:17] hachi: but didn't get the right result
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[07:31:14] Chicago: let schedules direct know. They have a 'report problems' with listings button.
[07:31:24] Chicago: I sent them an update about my locale this week.
[07:33:19] hachi: I don't think the problem is schedules direct
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[07:34:15] hachi: the problem is that my DVB card claims the channels are like
[07:34:31] hachi: 104#3, #4, #5, 125#0, 125#1
[07:35:47] hachi: and according to anything I look at, I don't have channels up in that range
[07:35:59] hachi: except for mythtv
[07:39:24] d0netsFN: hey how do i get my logitech wave keyboard working with mythtv
[07:39:40] d0netsFN: (the media buttons)
[07:40:01] kormoc: try google
[07:40:02] d0netsFN: like pause, fast forward, etc...
[07:40:04] d0netsFN: i did
[07:40:15] kormoc: if google doesn't know, how should we?
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[07:43:00] tank-man: d0netsFN, some terms you can search on google to help are "getkeycodes setkeycodes xmodmap xkeysymdb xev"
[07:43:22] strex: having some serious connection issues between my BE and FE, video is completly unwatchable. FE is running mythbuntu, and BE is running mythdora, suggestions on things to try?
[07:43:27] Chicago: d0netsFN: 'cat /dev/input/eventX' until you find it... then maybe use Xmodmap to setup your bindings.
[07:44:03] Chicago: strex: 'tail -f /var/log/mythtv/mythfrontend.log' or 'tail -f /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log' or setup a logfile to watch so you can tail it.
[07:45:42] strex: NVP: prebuffering pause, and Write Audio: buffer underrun
[07:46:08] wagnerrp: there is audio and video, but its too jerky to be of any use?
[07:46:25] strex: correct, unwatchable.
[07:46:32] wagnerrp: wireless?
[07:46:45] strex: audio seems to play fine, but video pauses about every 10sec
[07:46:48] Chicago: strex: How many frames do you get with 'glxgears' and what are you doing for playback? xvmc or ffmpeg or something else?
[07:46:57] strex: wagnerrp: no, 100BaseT
[07:47:08] tank-man: strex, are they even running the same version of mythtv on the fe and backend?
[07:47:10] wagnerrp: because opengl performance would have any bearing on video playback?
[07:47:18] strex: tank-man: yes
[07:47:38] Chicago: wagnerrp: Well, opengl vsync has bearing on playback.
[07:48:00] kormoc: or using the opengl video context...
[07:48:51] strex: willing to try anything to get a usable system back, who wants to know what?
[07:49:10] wagnerrp: hardware and content?
[07:49:14] strex: I should note, this is a fresh install of mythbuntu.
[07:49:20] Chicago: strex: playback a recording using mplayer, do it still ststststutter?
[07:49:27] kormoc: Credit card numbers and expiration dates?
[07:49:34] Chicago: Mothers sexual preference
[07:49:41] wagnerrp: a/s/l?
[07:49:49] strex: lol.. Chicago checking..
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[07:50:36] wagnerrp: i mean nuvs? SD mpeg2? HD mpeg2? what processor? what video card? are you pushing over NFS or mythproto?
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[07:52:22] strex: Chicago: well hangon, how should the FE be accessing the recordings from the BE, streaming them or (semi) locally over nfs?
[07:52:32] Chicago: strex: Your preference.
[07:52:55] Chicago: I find the playback is suitable with the streaming... but if you find that using NFS works for you... do that too
[07:53:16] Chicago: But think of it this way, if the backend has to grab the video over nfs before it send it to your frontend... then you're copying those frames 3 times....
[07:53:43] ** kormoc raises an eyebrow **
[07:53:47] strex: well it is currently set to stream, but I'm not sure how to test playback with mplayer..
[07:53:53] kormoc: Chicago, say what?
[07:53:59] wagnerrp: mplayer <file>
[07:54:19] wagnerrp: kormoc: hes talking about a backend with no local content
[07:54:25] strex: wagnerrp: I know that, but what is <file> if your streaming?
[07:54:29] wagnerrp: backend grabs file off nfs, and then pushes it to the client
[07:54:36] kormoc: ahh
[07:54:38] wagnerrp: strex: there is none, you cant do it
[07:54:50] Chicago: kormoc: If my files are exported from an NFS server... and a slave backend needs to grab them.... then needs to stream them to the frontend... those frames move over the network more than once.
[07:55:05] kormoc: sure
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[07:55:11] strex: wagnerrp: ....then how do I test playback of a recording?
[07:55:36] wagnerrp: what is the content? nuvs? SD mpeg2? HD mpeg2? what processor? what video card?
[07:55:41] kormoc: copy a file local?
[07:55:49] hachi: so, with mythtv and an over-air digital capture card, what channel source should I try to use?
[07:56:06] hachi: I'm having bad luck with both schedules direct and the 'EIT' (is that the term?)
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[07:56:22] wagnerrp: use schedules direct
[07:56:35] wagnerrp: (if youre a US user)
[07:56:42] strex: wagnerrp: mpeg2, FE core2duo 2.4, BE 1.8P4
[07:56:47] hachi: yeah
[07:56:57] hachi: oh shoot, I got a detail wrong
[07:57:07] hachi: I've got the card plugged into the cable line right now
[07:57:17] hachi: still, had the same luck in both places
[07:57:22] hachi: same answer I will assume
[07:57:36] wagnerrp: hachi: thats fine, if you have any form of cable, you get the local broadcast channels over QAM
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[07:58:09] hachi: how do I delete a video source from mythtv?
[07:58:45] wagnerrp: with digital, you must do a channel scan, open up the channel manager, open up the SD page, add in the corresponding xmlids for each channel, and run mythfilldatabase
[07:59:45] hachi: I remember trying that, and that landed me with a whole bunch of VH1... trying it again
[07:59:57] hachi: I still need to delete 3 of 4 sources
[08:00:31] wagnerrp: if youre just starting out, delete everything, channels, sources, and cards, and start from scratch
[08:00:33] strex: ok, playing an nfs mounted video works just fine in mplayer (not choppy at all).
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[08:00:41] hachi: not starting out
[08:00:55] hachi: running mythtv setup for two years now on analog cable
[08:01:09] hachi: really don't want to delete the source that's working for analog
[08:01:20] wagnerrp: then select the source, and hit 'd'
[08:01:27] hachi: ahh, 'd'
[08:01:28] hachi: thanks
[08:01:55] hachi: I was trying the delete key, or there was that 'delete all' choice
[08:02:27] strex: wagnerrp: it seams that only livetv and recordings are affected..
[08:04:26] hachi: wagnerrp: so then, I need to use the over air broadcast information from SD?
[08:04:31] strex: Chicago: anything else to try? any other suggestions?
[08:04:35] hachi: or do I pick the 'digital' version of my cable service?
[08:04:57] wagnerrp: hachi: either way, youre using the local broadcast channels
[08:05:00] wagnerrp: it doesnt really matter
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[08:05:14] wagnerrp: just make sure the xmlids match up for whatever you choose
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[08:05:49] hachi: er
[08:05:52] Chicago: strex: If livetv is all that has the problem... try and playback something you already recorded and run updatedb in the backgroup to cause some disk activity... maybe you are I/O bound.
[08:05:59] hachi: that's the problem I see, I don't have anything to line up the xmlid with
[08:06:05] hachi: SD has a list
[08:06:09] hachi: but there's nothing to correlate to
[08:06:21] hachi: do I just watch the channel for a while to figure out what channel it is?
[08:06:38] hachi: cause that's a lot of back-and-forth
[08:06:52] wagnerrp: mouse over on a channel, and you get the xmlid
[08:07:05] strex: Chicago: recordings do the same
[08:07:20] hachi: mouse over in what interface? the mouse pointer isn't visible in mythtv normally
[08:07:27] wagnerrp: the SD webpage
[08:07:34] hachi: oh, I have them on the SD webpage
[08:07:44] hachi: how do I know where to enter them once I scan for channels
[08:07:51] wagnerrp: channel editor
[08:07:53] wagnerrp: or mythweb
[08:07:58] Chicago: strex: How many megabytes per second can you transfer between your backend and frontend.... do you feel it's network, hard drive, cpu or memory?
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[08:09:45] hachi: wagnerrp: I'll try this, please understand that I'm not trying to be obstinate
[08:10:09] wagnerrp: i understand, its not straightforward after the simplicity of analog
[08:10:26] hachi: are you serious in that information?
[08:10:48] wagnerrp: in what information
[08:11:22] hachi: that it's not straightforward... I've tried to read specs and stuff, it seemed like it should be straightforward
[08:11:23] strex: Chicago: I used to be running mythdora on both the FE and BE and it was workind just fine, until last friday when libmythavcodec (update) decided to start core dumping. So I'm not too woried about the BE (not upgraded) I'm more concerned about the FE not working properly.. and at this point I know it's not the cpu / ram / io, only guess is the network.. but iperf is reporting 94.1Mbits/sec..
[08:11:46] Chicago: strex: Then you just seem to have problems with the package.
[08:11:50] Chicago: strex: Build from subversion.
[08:11:57] hachi: one of my first hatred in the new digital channels is that vendors get to pick how to show the channel numbers
[08:12:00] wagnerrp: the problem is that digital tv is based off arbitrary tags, defined by the video stream and your naming scheme
[08:12:03] hachi: mythtv lets you pick (thank god)
[08:12:09] hachi: ahh
[08:12:15] wagnerrp: theres no guarantee that they will match up to SD's
[08:12:37] wagnerrp: so the only sure fire way is to force them to match up, by setting the xmlids manually
[08:13:00] hachi: ugh
[08:13:06] wagnerrp: which you can do in the channel editor in mythtv-setup, or mythweb
[08:13:38] hachi: I remember trying to do this and botching up
[08:13:51] hachi: I don't remember if anyone had been around to answer questions while I was doing it though
[08:14:49] hachi: okay, when I set up a digital source do I need to care about the 'channel frequency table'
[08:14:59] hachi: or is that orthogonal to the digital channel stuff?
[08:15:19] Chicago: strex: Seriously though... if you don't want to build from subversion, try to get a confirmation from someone that your combination of packages works.
[08:15:55] wagnerrp: dont remember what the channel frequency table is off hand
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[08:16:21] hachi: like, the choices? us-bcast us-cable us-cable-hrc us-cable-lrc, etc.
[08:16:43] wagnerrp: us-bcast or us-cable
[08:16:50] wagnerrp: whichever you happen to be using
[08:17:47] wagnerrp: maybe cable high, QAM channels tend to only exist on 78 or higher and cable high will be a faster scan
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[08:19:32] hachi: and then 'scan for channels'... not 'fetch channels from listings source'... right?
[08:19:41] wagnerrp: correct
[08:20:47] hachi: blah, do you know the common QAM for north america, or should I go look it up?
[08:20:52] hachi: I can't remember which to pick
[08:20:56] Chicago: 256 on comcast
[08:20:58] wagnerrp: 256
[08:21:05] hachi: and I just noticed that I'm a moron
[08:21:10] hachi: it says it on the bottom of the screen
[08:21:54] hachi: Existing channel treatment
[08:21:58] hachi: do you know if this is for all sources
[08:22:01] hachi: or just this source
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[08:22:16] hachi: I'd love to pick 'delete exiting', but I don't want to blow away my analog setup
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[08:23:06] wagnerrp: you deleted the source, so theres nothing pre-existing
[08:23:10] wagnerrp: just do minimal updates
[08:23:19] hachi: fair enough
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[08:23:31] hachi: scanning, and we'll see if it crashes partway through
[08:23:39] hachi: like it used to do months ago :)
[08:23:43] kormoc: milticore/hyperthreaded cpu?
[08:24:00] hachi: oh yeah, it was an HT cpu, and I bet I disabled it the last time :)
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[08:24:11] wagnerrp: the mythtv digital scanner doesnt take to kindly to SMP/SMT machines
[08:24:30] hachi: that's fine, my tuner systems are all going to be single core once I get this working
[08:24:45] wagnerrp: just the scanner, fe and be dont care
[08:24:55] Paladine: you know what would be neat?
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[08:25:12] wagnerrp: a river of soft serve ice cream
[08:25:15] Paladine: a web frontend to mythtv-setup like mythweb
[08:25:17] hachi: peanut butter and jelly... in the same jar?
[08:25:34] wagnerrp: hachi: i think they do that already
[08:25:38] Paladine: pb&j always exists in the same jar
[08:25:38] justinh: you know what would be neat? I bunch of users who can't/don't code who are contented
[08:25:39] ** hachi hi-5 wagner **
[08:25:44] Paladine: Goobers for example
[08:25:47] Chicago: 'emerge female' would be nice.... I think they coverd that in Weird Science though.
[08:26:03] wagnerrp: Chicago: now you just need one of those rapid prototyping machines
[08:26:18] Paladine: justinh, I never said I wasn't content I said it would be neat
[08:26:36] wagnerrp: Paladine: i dont see much purpose for it
[08:26:46] xris: Chicago: works fine if you also include dinner/drinks/dinner/dinner/movie/dinner/dinner/dinner/ring  :)
[08:26:48] Paladine: or are users forbidden from making feature suggestions ?
[08:27:09] hachi: well, that didn't go well
[08:27:10] xris: Paladine: there's a wiki page for feature requests, which the devs rarely read.
[08:27:11] Paladine: wagner, would make it easier to configure headless backends
[08:27:21] Chicago: xris: I'm not too satisfied with all of the dependencies for the sys-companion/female package.
[08:27:23] xris: but which we occasionally take into consideration.
[08:27:25] wagnerrp: Paladine: the feature requests page on the wiki is primarily to placate people who can not code themselves
[08:27:27] Chicago: There are too many circular dependencies.
[08:27:46] hachi: wagnerrp: do you think I should try QAM-64, or 8-VSB... QAM-256 had no channels show on it
[08:27:46] clever: Paladine: just run mythtv-setup in vnc
[08:27:50] justinh: cat $feature_requests > /dev/null^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H wiki
[08:27:52] wagnerrp: Paladine: you can always pull up vnc
[08:27:56] kormoc: xris, ooh, no wonder, I get stuck in a recursive loop around dinner/dinner...
[08:27:56] xris: Chicago: lol. yes. there are those troubles. I got lucky with mine: http://tiger-chow.blogspot.com/ (waistline might disagree)
[08:28:03] Chicago: Mostly I'm just interested because of the features you get with USE="boobs buns booty"
[08:28:03] wagnerrp: hachi: are you plugged into antenna or cable?
[08:28:10] Paladine: a: it wasn't a request it was a suggestion of something which might be neat which just popped into my head. b: I can code, I just don't code for the mythtv project because I am entirely too busy
[08:28:16] hachi: wagnerrp: yup
[08:28:25] wagnerrp: hachi: are you plugged into antenna or cable?
[08:28:28] Chicago: Rainbow cookies!
[08:28:30] hachi: oh!
[08:28:31] hachi: cable
[08:28:32] Chicago: those look tasty
[08:28:36] hachi: I'll go double check
[08:28:39] wagnerrp: then QAM256
[08:28:51] wagnerrp: its very doubtful anything else would be the case
[08:28:57] Paladine: wagner, yes I could but that would require me to be running X on the backend
[08:29:06] hachi: I'll run a full scan of QAM256 then, not just the high channels
[08:29:08] wagnerrp: Paladine: nope, just vnc
[08:29:16] hachi: and check my cable runs again
[08:29:26] laga: xris: those cookies look tasty
[08:29:29] wagnerrp: after all, mythtv already requires the X libraries to compile the backend
[08:29:46] clever: mythbackend even loads the X libs at runtime
[08:29:52] kormoc: wagnerrp, or just x forwarding....
[08:29:54] wagnerrp: hachi: you may also want to try the scan utility out of dvb-utils
[08:30:13] wagnerrp: yeah, x forwarding works too
[08:30:22] hachi: I remember that thing... it had no way to 'scan' that I could see
[08:30:34] Paladine: it was just a siggestion, an idea. Not a criticism, not a complaint, sheesh this channel never used to be so userunfriendly
[08:30:35] hachi: I read the docs to it and the docs always said I needed to input a channel table
[08:31:12] kormoc: Paladine, blame the other users
[08:31:33] xris: laga: they were.. (whichever ones you're talking about)
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[08:31:56] Paladine: kormoc, I used to sit in here 24/7 and it seemed a lot friendlier than it has the last couple of days
[08:32:12] Paladine: you can't make a simple comment without someone jumping on it it seems now
[08:32:22] Chicago: There were some assholes I remember which I haven't seen here for a long time.
[08:32:22] wagnerrp: Paladine: you can always set things up manually though the mythweb interface to the database
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[08:32:58] xris: Chicago: as you get older (and more overworked and too tired), the use="kitchen" becomes important, too
[08:32:59] Paladine: wagner, I am already setup, it was just a fleeting thought that popped into my head is all
[08:33:12] wagnerrp: if you wanted, you could make a web interface to it, but it would be difficult to have things like hardware detection and channel scanning pushed over apache
[08:33:18] ** xris wishes he didn't feel so old lately at only 31 **
[08:33:34] Chicago: xris: I'd like the slotted install of sys-companion/female so that I can have version 1,2 and 3 installed at the same time.
[08:33:35] justinh: now I feel old
[08:33:39] wagnerrp: people are already baffled enough with mythtv-setup as it is
[08:33:51] wagnerrp: another more cumbersome interface would not bode well
[08:34:12] Paladine: I don't see any reason why it would have to look any different
[08:34:13] xris: Chicago: good luck with that one... http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-002
[08:34:17] justinh: well, at least I've got trunk working well enough again on my laptop to get some dev work done again :)
[08:34:19] Paladine: theoretically it could look identical
[08:34:37] kormoc: it would be silly to look identical
[08:34:46] xris: justinh: I'm allowed to feel old, too.. I was excited to get a new dishwasher installed this week.
[08:35:16] Paladine: xris, got kids?
[08:35:41] Paladine: if not wait til you start thinking paintings by a 3 yr old look really cool
[08:35:48] Paladine: then you know you are old
[08:35:50] justinh: oh dear
[08:35:55] Chicago: xris: That is a good one.
[08:36:22] justinh: then again I'm putting off buying a HDTV for some reasons, the main one being the current SDTV model is working just fine
[08:36:26] Chicago: Too bad PS3 and Nintendo don't open their network, it would be nice if the MythTV OSD would let you know when your friends are online.
[08:36:29] justinh: that's a sign of being old too I'd bet
[08:36:56] Paladine: I haven't HD because the Sky HD box is a ripoff
[08:37:04] Paladine: mind you sky is generally a ripoff
[08:37:08] hachi: well, I just remembered why I'm having so much problems with the scan
[08:37:26] hachi: disk blew out the last time I tried this.. firmware's missing again'
[08:37:43] justinh: wheee segfault when mythfrontend can't find preview images. worth debugging?
[08:37:45] Chicago: xris: Mother-inlaw 1.0 with popup feature.... lol http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-002
[08:37:46] xris: Paladine: not yet.. but probably this year.
[08:37:57] Paladine: whats the normal read speed of a generic IDE drive?
[08:38:07] xris: Chicago: those are funny.. but I actually like my mother in law. she's crazy in a good way.
[08:38:22] kormoc: xris, and you'll never have free time again... :P
[08:38:24] Paladine: xris, well good luck with that, despite the cost and the diapers, it is worth it
[08:38:57] clever: justinh: those preview images caused droped lirc keys(remote didnt work when loading image) so it was imposible to scroll thru my listings
[08:39:01] clever: so i turned them off ages ago
[08:39:10] clever: probly before the qt4 port
[08:39:15] xris: Paladine: yeah, so I've heard... a number of my friends have been having kids lately. and others already have them.
[08:39:17] justinh: wth are you talking about man?
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[08:39:31] Paladine: xris, mine turned 3 on december 12th
[08:39:33] xris: kormoc: it's not the free time. it's the "need a babysitter to have a life" thing
[08:39:36] clever: justinh: when the preview image was loading, the frontend totaly ignored the lirc remote
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[08:39:47] Paladine: so this christmas was the best in my entire life
[08:39:50] xris: Paladine: twins? (hopefully only twins)
[08:39:57] justinh: xris: get used to it already by simply not having a life :)
[08:40:02] kormoc: xris, I donno...
[08:40:04] clever: so button presses didnt queue up, and scrolling was painfully slow
[08:40:07] Paladine: they don't really understand what is going on when they are 2 but once they hit 3 they are so much fun
[08:40:28] justinh: I've been practising that for years since I packed in my DJ job
[08:40:33] xris: Paladine: I'm waiting for 20-ish.. which is when I think I finally started to appreciate my parents.  :)
[08:40:43] justinh: now I actually enjoy staying in :P
[08:40:45] Paladine: hehehe
[08:41:06] Paladine: well I work nights 6 nights a week so unfortunately I get to spend precious little time with my son
[08:41:12] justinh: still have to get out once a month & party though.. or I might go mroe crazy
[08:41:21] kormoc: Breeders are scary scary people...
[08:41:35] Paladine: they are when you breed them like my son
[08:41:48] Paladine: he is 4 feet tall and 65lbs at 3 yr old
[08:42:01] Paladine: he is like a Pit Bull with 2 legs
[08:42:33] ** justinh recompiles trunk with compile-type=debug **
[08:42:53] justinh: or is that build-type.. anyway.. with debugging symbols
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[08:45:19] xris: ok, definitely time to sleep now. later
[08:45:24] justinh: jees. a guy at work has just said that they're talking about banning bestiality in Holland. TALKING ABOUT BANNING it. WTF kind of messed up place is that?
[08:45:46] justinh: aanyway...
[08:45:53] wagnerrp: that is... oddly large
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[08:46:26] wagnerrp: one of the girls i knew in highschool, her 11yr old brother was almost 6' tall
[08:47:11] wagnerrp: of course one of my friend's 13yr old brother had a full jesus beard
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[08:48:29] hachi: okay, this time it's actually scanning and not actually throwing errors to the serial console
[08:48:45] wagnerrp: always good... serial console?
[08:50:29] clever: i setup 2 of my systems to dump all printk()'s to the serial port
[08:50:42] clever: so if/when it does a kernel panic while X is running, i can still see the error
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[08:51:20] hachi: serial console... I don't hook up monitors to all my machines
[08:51:28] hachi: especially the ones in the garage
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[08:52:48] justinh: ugh. GANT's 'watch recordings' screen isn't erm... eew. text leaking out of the list container. yukky
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[08:53:22] clever: atleast draw within the lines!!!
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[08:54:31] hachi: huh, the dvb drivers actually count for IO wait time in the linux kernel
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[08:54:40] hachi: like a block device... or something
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[08:55:30] Paladine: wagner, yeah he is large, 99.7th percentile for height
[08:57:39] justinh: oh dear oh dear. laptop has now locked up
[08:57:55] hachi: justinh: alt-sysrq-b
[08:58:03] justinh: sysrq?
[08:58:10] wagnerrp: print screen
[08:58:30] clever: that will hard reset the machine without flushing/syncing any buffers
[08:58:36] hachi: you could 's'
[08:58:39] hachi: and it would sync
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[08:58:54] clever: you should use the proper seq to properly umount too
[08:58:55] hachi: what's the mnemonic... raising elephants... something something
[08:59:01] clever: rseiub
[08:59:34] justinh: jees. X has hung. oops
[08:59:39] clever: Raw Sync tErm kIll Umount reBoot
[08:59:50] justinh: what was laga saying about qt4 & opengl the other day?
[09:00:06] clever: i usualy try to do less then a full restart
[09:00:08] hachi: wagnerrp: okay, I asked mythtv to label my channels as major.minor
[09:00:17] clever: alt+sysrq+r, ctrl+alt+f1
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[09:00:25] hachi: but the scan still landed me a bunch of channels named 104#1, 125#0, etc.
[09:00:30] hachi: any idea why this happened?
[09:00:37] clever: and check things like ssh and ping to see if i can properly shutdown -r
[09:00:52] justinh: well it just refused me a connection over ssh, so it's not dead dead
[09:00:56] wagnerrp: the major.minor syntax will only work on named streams
[09:01:15] clever: justinh: then the kernel and tcp stack is up, but the userspace sshd has died
[09:01:20] hachi: and since I haven't named them, okay
[09:01:23] wagnerrp: if the scanner comes across a stream that does not identify itself, it will just be <channel>#<pid>
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[09:02:06] ** directhex hands clever an oom_adj of -17 **
[09:02:08] hachi: so then how do I associate a channel like 126#6 with the xmlid it should be?
[09:02:16] hachi: this is where I got stuck last time, I guess
[09:02:23] justinh: hachi: manually? :)
[09:02:49] wagnerrp: leave it blank for now, its probably an on-demand channel that will be inaccessable later anyway
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[09:02:57] hachi: no, all of them are this way
[09:03:10] wagnerrp: the bigger issue is that you dont know what that channel is
[09:03:30] hachi: okay
[09:03:49] wagnerrp: load up mythtv, watch the channel for a few seconds to minutes to figure out what it is
[09:03:53] wagnerrp: then id it
[09:04:14] hachi: I can do this with the backend running?
[09:04:17] justinh: press E when watching the channel to bring up the channel editor
[09:04:25] hachi: oh!
[09:04:26] justinh: hachi: you NEED the backend running to watch the channel
[09:04:38] hachi: well, yes... but I mean the editing of the channel
[09:04:45] wagnerrp: bring up the backend and frontend, check the channels, then take it down and set the IDs
[09:04:45] hachi: I thought I had to do it from the editor in mythtv-setup
[09:05:06] hachi: you know, exit all the way out, down the backend, setup... edit channel, exit, bring up backend watch another channel repeat
[09:05:15] justinh: you don't need to take the backend down to set the xmtvids
[09:05:23] hachi: oh god, thanks
[09:05:24] justinh: you can even use mythweb's channel editor to do that
[09:07:12] clever: i usualy edit most things with the backend up, and if i feel that it was something 'major' restart the backend afterwards
[09:08:48] ** hachi stab stab stab **
[09:09:02] hachi: oh, do I have to restart the master backend after... yeah I must
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[09:09:47] justinh: arghhh ffs. running mythfrontend under GDB is messing up my system
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[09:10:13] justinh: just ran it without gdb & it crashed properly. now it's just hung X
[09:10:13] hachi: where's the storage setup thing
[09:10:17] hachi: was that in mythtv-setup?
[09:10:21] wagnerrp: yes
[09:10:26] wagnerrp: storage groups
[09:11:02] justinh: hrm maybe not hung. I can see the HDD LED flash sometimes. let's try being more patient this time
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[09:11:41] justinh: and clever there's no sshd running.. I was just seeing if the machine was hung entirely or not :P
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[09:12:10] justinh: hachi: what did I say about not having to restart the MBE just to add xmltvids?
[09:12:21] hachi: is there a race condition where mythtv-setup will ignore the flags I pass it, and also completely miss the fact that there was actually a UPnP backend available?
[09:12:28] justinh: it's dangerous to listen to _everybody_ in this channel
[09:12:36] hachi: justinh: no, after adding the input
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[09:12:48] directhex: justinh, like mchou?
[09:12:59] wagnerrp: mythtv-setup has nothing to do with upnp
[09:13:01] hachi: I was getting errors about 'can't open input 6 or 7' or something like that
[09:13:13] justinh: generally speaking you should stop the backend before running mythtv-setup & restart it afterwards
[09:13:17] wagnerrp: you cannot access the tuner cards with mythbackend running
[09:13:40] hachi: I'm on a slave backend
[09:13:47] hachi: I had stopped the slave backend process
[09:13:50] hachi: but not the master
[09:14:00] hachi: well, I just ran: mythtv-setup --geometry 800x600 -O ThemePainter=Qt -O RunFrontendInWindow=1
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[09:14:02] justinh: but take my word for it, editing xmltvids, channel icons.. infact prolly just those cases.. you don't need to stop the backend
[09:14:12] hachi: I trust you
[09:14:21] hachi: I didn't mishear you on that count
[09:14:28] clever: justinh: those make perfect sense
[09:14:46] hachi: in any case, I just ran that exact command
[09:14:57] hachi: and it launched itself full screen
[09:15:10] justinh: directhex: he's dangerous full stop. still though, makes my anger management problem look trivial
[09:15:34] directhex: justinh, welcome to the internet!
[09:15:38] clever: mythfrontend has has a -w and --windowed, but mythtv-setup seems to lack it
[09:15:55] justinh: the interwebs... where there's always somebody more screwed up than you!
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[09:16:43] justinh: hrm. gonna have to install ssh on this machine, at least so I can get control back
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[09:17:44] hachi: okay, finally got into the storage groups config
[09:18:56] justinh: ugh. not much in gdb.txt
[09:19:01] clever: hachi: i think i see your problem
[09:19:15] clever: one posible way
[09:19:19] hachi: :(
[09:19:24] hachi: are you about to insult me?
[09:19:26] clever: the QApplication is created before the -O arguments are parsed
[09:19:42] hachi: oh, oh, okay
[09:19:45] hachi: sorry for assuming that
[09:19:45] clever: which may lead to the RunFrontendInWindow=1 bit being ignored
[09:20:21] hachi: clever: there's something weird that happens, normally when I run mythtv-setup it launches the grey screens and lets me immediately configure things
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[09:20:36] clever: sounds like the g.a.n.t theme
[09:20:39] hachi: once in a while it throws this error about being unable to find a 'UPnP backend'... witha bright blue background
[09:21:00] hachi: and those are the cases where it launches full screen
[09:21:21] hachi: it then spins for a while (60 seconds or so) while it calculates how to draw the window I think
[09:21:22] clever: when it fails to find the upnp backend, it wont touch mysql at all, and wont know any of the current settings
[09:21:35] hachi: what's weird though
[09:21:40] clever: causing the theme to reset to something else
[09:21:40] hachi: if I try it again, it will work fine
[09:21:54] hachi: the killer of it though, it doesn't parse the window size
[09:22:16] hachi: so it takes FOREVER for it to tell me that it can't connect
[09:22:27] hachi: I could maybe run my laptop at something other than freaky-high resolution
[09:22:33] hachi: and that would speed it up
[09:22:43] clever: ssh -X allways lags for me
[09:22:58] hachi: yes, but it's much faster with smaller window sizes
[09:23:02] clever: i gave up using it ages ago
[09:23:15] clever: i now use raw x11 over tcp over the LAN
[09:23:29] ** justinh uses VNC & freenx **
[09:23:45] clever: DISPLAY=d600:0 mythtv-setup # this would show up on the d600's screen
[09:24:17] sid3windr: possibly dumb question but how do I delete a channel?
[09:24:19] clever: but you would need to modify the startup for the X server, by default it gets '-nolisten tcp' which disables everything over the network
[09:24:23] sid3windr: pressing delete on mythtv setup doesnt work ;)
[09:24:26] hachi: does a mythtv slave backend assume it has all the master backend storage directories mounted
[09:24:30] clever: sid3windr: did you try MENU?
[09:24:31] sid3windr: or am I just supposed to set it invisible or so?
[09:24:37] justinh: hmmm.. how to Delete something. What letter does Delete start with?
[09:24:41] hachi: er, what I'm trying to ask:
[09:24:46] sid3windr: justinh: HM. ;)
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[09:24:53] justinh: A ?
[09:25:00] sid3windr: justinh: on all other lists (video source, tuner, etc) the delete key works
[09:25:00] justinh: no. hmm,.... B?
[09:25:01] hachi: can I get my slave backend to stop assuming that the filesystem looks the same on it as it does on the master backend?
[09:25:06] sid3windr: so I never thought of the E ;)
[09:25:10] justinh: c? No...
[09:25:25] clever: hachi: add atleast 1 storage dir to the local slave, and it should use that alone for recording
[09:25:30] hachi: okay
[09:25:31] sid3windr: luckily I prefixed it with "possibly dumb question" eh ;)
[09:25:34] sid3windr: thanks
[09:26:28] clever: hachi: i see another posibly cause for your problem
[09:26:48] clever: mythtv-setup has code to manualy parse the arguments in main(), while mythfrontend uses mythcommandlineparser.h
[09:27:01] clever: though none of what im seeing may matter, if your not on trunk
[09:27:21] hachi: i'm going to switch to trunk once I get a working setup going
[09:27:36] hachi: I really wanted to just get this mostly working, and then start coding ideas of things I want
[09:28:41] clever: ahhhhh, --windowed just fates -O RunFrontendInWindow=1, but that just leaves me more confused:P
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[09:30:10] hachi: hey... uhh
[09:30:54] hachi: nevermind, I'll try it on trunk later
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[09:32:11] strex: put this up a while ago, if anyone finds it interesting, quite a few little mythtv related stuff in it: blog.morphx.net
[09:32:57] clever: looks like mythtv-setup will handle all the -O flags, then load a MythMainWindow, and MythMainWindow will handle if things should be fullscreen or not
[09:33:08] strex: night folks
[09:34:13] clever: but even then, running it in a 'window' doesnt make it non fullscreen, it just lets the window manager theme the edges
[09:34:26] clever: so im thinking the --geometry is not working right
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[09:35:40] justinh: No symbol table info available. BAH
[09:35:54] hachi: since I don't have the listings available to me yet... got a recommendation on a site for looking up what channel I'm looking at, if I know what program is playing?
[09:36:34] justinh: clever: you could just hack the db temporarily instead :)
[09:36:43] justinh: desperate times & all that ;)
[09:37:07] clever: thats allways an option
[09:39:41] justinh: hrm. should I have to distclean before rebuilding with debugging enabled?
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[09:40:52] hachi: are any of the columns on the channel editor in mythweb something I shouldn't change?
[09:41:28] hachi: I see that both channum and freqid are something that I want to change to be more useful, but I don't know if either of them are tieing this channel row to the way the card opens the channel
[09:41:54] justinh: change to be more useful?
[09:42:08] hachi: well, the row in question
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[09:42:30] hachi: channum says 104#2, and freqid says 104
[09:42:52] hachi: it should actually be channel 44.1
[09:43:22] clever: i know that 'chanid' is something you shouldnt change, but no idea foru 'channum'
[09:43:45] justinh: better to make any changes now before you have recording schedules to screw up
[09:43:53] clever: that too
[09:44:04] clever: less to break right now
[09:44:10] hachi: oh, yes
[09:44:16] hachi: but I just mean... if I change these columns
[09:44:24] hachi: it won't make it 'untunable', right?
[09:44:30] hachi: it might just screw up the listings
[09:44:39] justinh: it won't screw up the listings
[09:44:47] justinh: it won't make it untunable
[09:44:59] hachi: thank you :)
[09:45:23] justinh: the only column in channel that can make a digital channel untunable is mplexid & AFAIK you can't edit that in mythweb anyway
[09:45:54] justinh: oops. and serviceid. forgot that one
[09:46:10] justinh: also unavailable to mythweb's channel editor last I looked :)
[09:46:39] hachi: nope, I can't touch either of those
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[09:51:27] hachi: lots of rubbish TV on at this time of night, but I'm making progress
[09:51:41] hachi: thank you wagnerrp, justin, clever... I hope I'm not forgetting someone
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[10:05:18] justinh: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/justin.hornsby2/gdb.txt &nd ash; any ideas there?
[10:05:22] hachi: bloody hell... now the slave is looping trying to connect
[10:05:27] hachi: http://nopaste.snit.ch/15303
[10:08:29] hachi: mysql.txt says to connect to something not localhost
[10:08:49] hachi: I don't even know why it's trying to connect to localhost... bleh
[10:09:25] laga: config.xml?
[10:09:34] Dibblah: justinh: Nasty backtrace.
[10:09:40] justinh: Dibblah: how so?
[10:10:05] hachi: no config.xml anywhere
[10:10:09] justinh: I know what the problem is – it shouldn't be segfaulty though
[10:10:15] hachi: well, there's one in /usr/share/doc
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[10:10:24] hachi: but that doesn't matter
[10:10:36] justinh: the frontend can't find the files it thinks it should be able to see.. which is fair enough cos they ain't there :)
[10:10:58] justinh: that was for Dibblah btw hachi, not you ^^^
[10:11:10] hachi: yup
[10:11:15] hachi: I understood that
[10:11:35] Dibblah: justinh: Because I hate corruption – It's difficult to debug without stepping back through execution.
[10:11:46] Dibblah: Hmm. GDB doesn't do trace logging, does it? ;)
[10:12:08] justinh: no clue how to use gdb.. I'm just copying what I found in the docs
[10:12:32] Dibblah: The way I've done it previously is with breakpoints :(
[10:12:46] Dibblah: There must be a better way, but I haven't found it.
[10:13:09] justinh: I'm just trying to be a good person & do my duty :)
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[10:14:22] doc__: hi there
[10:14:45] justinh: Dibblah: gonna see if it happens with the qt painter
[10:14:55] Dibblah: doc__: Why do that?
[10:15:01] Dibblah: If you have a question, ask ;)
[10:15:14] justinh: !seen there
[10:15:14] MythLogBot: there has not been seen here
[10:16:07] Dibblah: !seen brevity
[10:16:07] MythLogBot: brevity has not been seen here
[10:18:17] justinh: hmmm seems it's fine with the qt painter
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[10:19:55] justinh: so, dunno what to do now other than fix the 'file not found' problem & see if it still crashes
[10:20:20] justinh: if it does it might be related to the problem laga said he had.. in which case it's due to qt4.4
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[10:20:40] justinh: and that's gonna suck cos I like the gl painter these days
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[10:22:11] laga: justinh: what problem?
[10:23:05] justinh: opengl crashy crashy
[10:23:33] lyricnz: Is there any patch to just make stuff as "deleteable" rather than deleting it now? My family keeps deleting things I haven't seen yet.
[10:24:00] Dibblah: lyricnz: It's in current SVN.
[10:24:05] justinh: lyricnz: no patch needed. just set stuff to be expired rather than deleted
[10:24:15] justinh: in 0.21
[10:24:26] hachi: no, I think they're saying
[10:24:27] justinh: and while you're at it, give your family a good smack
[10:24:33] hachi: don't allow people to delete from the interface
[10:24:34] ** Dibblah loses track of SVN vs release :( **
[10:24:39] cesman: lyricnz: let your belt do that talking ;)
[10:24:45] justinh: nah you can't do that
[10:24:53] lyricnz: justinh: I want some control over deletion, just stop them deleting my stuff.
[10:24:58] justinh: (prevent deletes from the interface)
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[10:25:21] lyricnz: (to them) Sheesh, I built the goddamn machine, who are YOU to say I'm wasting space? Grrgrrgrrr
[10:25:38] laga: justinh: no, my *laptop* crashes
[10:25:45] justinh: laga: ah
[10:25:52] justinh: it was gdb hanging my laptop btw
[10:25:59] laga: ah
[10:26:01] lyricnz: mythtv on fedora 10 = crashycrashy
[10:26:16] laga: well, i do get some stuff in dmesg. something about i915 drm IIRC
[10:26:19] lyricnz: I've had two backend "crashes" and maybe five frontend crashes, in the last couple of weeks
[10:26:22] justinh: laga: watch recordings with missing files in gl painter.. crashy crashy
[10:26:32] justinh: in qt painter, works ok & just yells about missing files
[10:27:56] lyricnz: Most of the time somewhere in NuppelVideoPlayer.cpp it seems
[10:29:41] hachi: ugh, I'm stuck... when I go to 'watch tv'... it just bails out saying "Error was encounterd while displaying video"
[10:29:45] hachi: log says
[10:29:50] hachi: "Unknown error, exiting decoder"
[10:29:57] hachi: but now I can't seem to get off that channel
[10:29:58] hachi: help?
[10:30:17] hachi: I can't even figure out what channel it is to disable it
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[10:32:32] laga: try setting a different start channel in mythtv-setup?
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[10:41:37] ** justinh ponders buying Maplin's £25 USB twin tuner dvb-t stick **
[10:42:00] ** Dibblah just bought 4 USB DVB-t sticks for £35. **
[10:42:05] justinh: ruh?
[10:42:11] justinh: from where?
[10:42:16] justinh: teh fleahbay?
[10:42:17] Dibblah: Admittedly, it'll take 4 weeks to arrive, but...
[10:42:19] Dibblah: Yeah.
[10:42:41] Dibblah: Hopefully, they're linuxtv supported :(
[10:42:43] justinh: worky in loonix or wonky on loonix?
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[10:45:00] justinh: my dad got one & it's one of the very few which'll prolly never work in linux.. very obscure chipset
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[10:46:17] dustybin: justinh: have you run out of PCI slots?
[10:46:30] justinh: no. it'll be for my laptop
[10:46:38] dustybin: haha nice
[10:47:06] dustybin: i was thinking, if i used that USB dual tuner on my sisters tiny frontend box, that would be the smallest frontend/backend box in the world
[10:47:16] justinh: like shite
[10:47:18] dustybin: i might have to do that when i leave
[10:47:22] justinh: nvidia ion :)
[10:47:36] dustybin: that will be expensive?
[10:47:54] justinh: doubt it
[10:48:28] dustybin: them tiny boxes look lovely
[10:48:36] dustybin: almost too small
[10:48:39] justinh: they won't be using low-production run chips like Via do :)
[10:48:44] laga: sweet
[10:48:45] dustybin: heh
[10:49:14] justinh: dustybin: no such thing as too small
[10:49:50] dustybin: justinh: tell that to the CPU and GPU
[10:49:54] justinh: it's gonna make having a STB form-factor mythtv machine feasible at last.. one capable of playing HD and not based on Via crap :)
[10:51:11] dustybin: will there be linux acceleration with intel GPUs one day?
[10:51:16] dustybin: and ATI
[10:51:25] justinh: one day, maybe when hell is nice & icy
[10:51:32] dustybin: LOL
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[10:52:04] justinh: gah why is mythfrontend insisting on creating preview thumbs itself?!
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[10:52:19] Dibblah: dustybin: The Intel IGPs aren't really up to the job for anything better than mpeg2 acceleration.
[10:52:26] dustybin: eek
[10:52:27] justinh: just take the files I copies already damnit!
[10:52:40] dustybin: Dibblah: what about ATI
[10:52:47] justinh: you said it. what about ATI
[10:52:51] dustybin: LOL
[10:53:15] dustybin: is VDPAU closed source?
[10:53:22] dustybin: binary only
[10:53:27] justinh: FFS.. there's no other way round this. I need a fscking tuner on this machine.. or at least the bloody video files. BAH
[10:53:32] dustybin: or have nvidia opened it up?
[10:53:33] justinh: dustybin: yes. and?
[10:54:08] dustybin: just wondered, so that means everyone has to rely on nvidia if its stable or not?
[10:54:30] justinh: like anything open source in video drivers works apart from Intel
[10:55:16] justinh: jees. the packaging of this effort Maplin sell (Twinhan allegedly).. "Dual Tunner". yay
[10:55:52] hachi: well,k this seems like such a waste
[10:56:04] dustybin: i bought another Nova-T 500 from PC world for £49, same price as whats on web shops
[10:56:11] justinh: people prattle on about open vs closed source stuff but at the end of the day it doesn't matter unless one works & the other doesn't
[10:56:20] hachi: out of 41 channels I could tune... 30 of them are PPV... I guess
[10:56:23] dustybin: aye true i guess
[10:57:08] justinh: so until the OSS driver does what it says on the tin, I won't be using it – no matter how many puppies are killed in the process
[10:57:34] dustybin: :o
[10:57:39] justinh: if that means I "hate freedom", so be it :)
[10:58:48] dustybin: justinh: richard stallman would not be impressed
[10:59:09] justinh: I wasn't impressed with him when I saw him, so it'd be mutual
[10:59:17] dustybin: LOL
[10:59:56] justinh: well I say 'saw'.. he was surrounded by fanboys who looked like they wanted to cook his sock faster than you could blink
[11:00:35] hachi: wagnerrp: did you say that the local cable company should be delivering all on-air channels via QAM?
[11:01:10] Dibblah: My goodness. People buy hardware from pchurled?
[11:01:28] justinh: Dibblah: yeah when it's cheaper there than anywhere else
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[11:01:33] justinh: which sometimes it is
[11:01:47] Dibblah: Sorry – I worked for a temp job at Dixons. So I know their stock handling routines.
[11:01:52] directhex: heh
[11:02:05] Dibblah: It's quite amazing how far you can throw a DVD player.
[11:02:07] directhex: and their policy on sending returned-defective items to the shrink wrap machine? :)
[11:02:40] justinh: like it's any different to any other electrical/electronic retailer....
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[11:03:02] justinh: I know people who've worked at MicroDirect, Scan, Aria & PC World. they're all sharks
[11:03:46] justinh: half the time customer returned stuff really isn't faulty, and they're all (retailers) arrogant enough not to really care who they piss off, so it's a win-win
[11:09:45] Dibblah: If you want really annoying, ebuyer used to have a "top deals" section thing.
[11:09:56] Dibblah: Bought 5 identical motherboards from it.
[11:10:04] Dibblah: All non-booting faulty.
[11:10:42] dustybin: justinh: Dragons Den is a great show worth recording
[11:11:00] dustybin: I imagine iamlindoro to be just like Peter Jones LOL
[11:12:13] clever: Dibblah: atleast they where all identical!
[11:13:22] dustybin: haha clever!
[11:14:27] dustybin: clever: i read this and thought of you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
[11:15:23] clever: those images look like my house....
[11:15:50] justinh: Dragons Den.. clueless DOLTS line up in front of a theatrical panel of 'entrepeneurs' pitching their stupid ideas anybody could've dreamt up in their teabreak...
[11:16:22] clever: dustybin: http://gallery.clever.mine.nu/index.py/desk2/desk 015.jpg
[11:16:49] clever: stuff everywhere
[11:18:00] dustybin: clever: isnt it about time one used mod-rewrite: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.2 PHP/5.2.4–2ubuntu5.3 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g Server at clever.mine.nu Port 80
[11:18:25] justinh: ooh look! another panellist has rejected my idea of a platinum oven cosy because it'll be too expensive to make & the market will be too limited. Maybe the next dragon will like it...
[11:18:28] clever: modrewrite is in use
[11:18:44] dustybin: clever: if it was in use i wouldnt be seeing that server message
[11:19:01] dustybin: justinh: is it on now?
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[11:19:10] clever: dustybin: im just not using it in the right way/places then:P
[11:19:16] dustybin: nope..
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[11:19:35] justinh: dustybin: on now? why would it have to be on now for me to take potshots at the stupidity of its contestants?
[11:20:37] dustybin: i have one recorded what i havent watched yet :D
[11:20:40] dustybin: "Series in which budding entrepreneurs pitch business ideas to five multi-millionaires. Pitches include walk-in stress relief shops and a lemon-slicing device for pubs."
[11:21:11] justinh: dustybin: manchester has loads of those walk-in stress relief shops already
[11:21:16] justinh: they're called BROTHELS
[11:21:20] dustybin: LOL
[11:21:47] dustybin: there will be a new series of the apprentice on soon, i look forward to that  :D
[11:22:06] justinh: they even have a drive-thru where you can opt to take the stress relief in your car
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[11:22:20] justinh: *not available on the high street
[11:22:22] dustybin: haha
[11:23:34] ** Dibblah loves the "MythTV Doesn't Work When I Don't Follow The Instructions" waaaah on the mailing list. **
[11:23:56] justinh: Dibblah: the way myth doesn't read minds is very troubling
[11:24:10] dustybin: i took me about 3 years to figure out MythTV
[11:24:21] dustybin: and there are still loads i dont know
[11:24:24] justinh: everything on PCs should just be a one-click install process or it's just not worth the time downloading it
[11:24:54] justinh: yeah but dustybin let's be honest.. this is you you're talking about :P
[11:25:02] dustybin: haha true
[11:38:52] justinh: damnit still can't get these preview thumbs to appear
[11:39:59] justinh: ugh. that box progdetails uses could do with a redraw
[11:41:00] hachi: when I change channels on my DVB card, the frontend likes to spit a few times... things complaining that it's too slow. Are there documents on trying to speed things up in that regard?
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[11:43:53] dustybin: "how to lose friends and alienate people" i just watched a few clips, this film looks _ACE_
[11:44:16] dustybin: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0455538/
[11:45:59] justinh: how to lose friends & alienate people.. tell them you're putting them on /ignore
[11:49:12] dustybin: i just learnt a new handy IRC command, this works with IRSSI: /exec out [any command]
[11:50:02] dustybin: actually, its /exec -out [command]
[11:50:09] dustybin: Wed Jan 14 11:50:09 GMT 2009
[11:50:14] dustybin: 11:50:14 up 14 days, 21:50, 5 users, load average: 1.14, 1.62, 2.09
[11:50:19] hachi: and if you don't want to send it to the channel, just use /exec
[11:50:25] dustybin: aye
[11:52:26] justinh: might aswell alias that command with /flood :D
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[11:54:27] hachi: I know a number of people who like to combine it with figlet
[11:55:24] dustybin: hachi: thats a good way to get a kick ban
[11:55:56] hachi: well, that's what they like to do
[11:56:00] hachi: not what I like to do
[11:56:03] justinh: think I'll go to Maplin at lunchytime :)
[11:56:19] dustybin: yuk why mapcraps?
[11:56:25] justinh: give the unclued more exposure to my cash
[11:56:34] dustybin: expensive mapcraps
[11:56:36] justinh: dual tuner dvb-t usb stick £25
[11:56:49] dustybin: bloody heck thats cheap for them
[11:56:57] dustybin: they are usually 8* the normal price
[11:58:47] ** justinh is not a mug, ya know **
[11:58:47] Dibblah: Meh. They also pervert google.
[11:59:07] justinh: yeh. "find paedophile material cheaper at Maplin"
[11:59:12] Dibblah: As in manipulate search rankings.
[11:59:24] Dibblah: Not as in google for porn.
[11:59:44] phunyguy: Uptime: 11 hours and 35 minutes
[11:59:56] justinh: no that was a ludicrous example of how they end up in google results
[11:59:59] hashbang: dustybin: Maplin are funny on prices
[12:00:00] phunyguy: awesome
[12:00:05] hashbang: dustybin: some stuff they're hideously overpriced
[12:00:15] hashbang: dustybin: some stuff they're the cheapest around, and OK quality too
[12:01:03] Dibblah: They've stopped being an "electronics" shop, mainly, though.
[12:01:06] hashbang: dustybin: I think it depends on whether they buy lots of stock and then it experiences rapid depreciation (CPUs, memory, graphics cards) or they're charging a premium for supplying something of limited demand and in small quantities (resistors, TTL)
[12:01:16] dustybin: justinh: watch this video :D http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7816500.stm
[12:01:23] ** dustybin giggles **
[12:01:30] hashbang: Dibblah: in what way? Mine still sells ICs etc from the counter.
[12:01:31] justinh: dustybin: er.. no. I'm at work.
[12:01:39] dustybin: ok
[12:01:54] Dibblah: http://www.rapidonline.com/
[12:01:58] Dibblah: is much better.
[12:02:28] justinh: we thought they'd gone out of business here. turned out that rapid has blocked our IP
[12:02:44] Dibblah: http://www.rapidonline.com/netalogue/banners/ . . . _47-5118.gif
[12:02:51] Dibblah: Ooooh! January sale!
[12:02:58] hashbang: Dibblah: what are their order handling/postage charges like? That's what excludes RS for me.
[12:03:08] justinh: wow! a zener diode!
[12:03:13] Dibblah: 1.3w Zener diodes – What everyone needs after christmas!
[12:04:04] MartinCleaver_: Hey, is there an official pre-built mythtv backend vmware image?
[12:04:14] justinh: official whut?
[12:04:25] justinh: official prebuilt nothing from mythtv.org
[12:04:41] MartinCleaver_: maybe there's one on vmware.com then
[12:04:48] Dibblah: Why would you want to put a backend in a VM?
[12:05:08] Dibblah: That's just odd.
[12:05:16] justinh: Dibblah: to see it not work in a VM of course :)
[12:05:44] MartinCleaver_: maybe you use the server for something else too?
[12:06:01] justinh: maybe you don't run linux on a server? weird
[12:06:13] MartinCleaver_: maybe mythtv is just one linux image you want to run on the server?
[12:06:42] justinh: people & their use cases. there's nothing more strange
[12:06:59] justinh: is that because mythbackend is so much of a resource hog?
[12:07:27] MartinCleaver_: no, more for manageability
[12:07:42] justinh: ah because mythbackend is so hard to manage
[12:07:53] MartinCleaver_: there's a live cd of mythtv?
[12:08:01] ** clever points to #knoppmyth **
[12:08:03] justinh: only for frontends
[12:08:10] sulx: mythtv is application, not os
[12:08:13] ** MartinCleaver_ just found http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/991 **
[12:08:36] MartinCleaver_: Rating: 1 / 5
[12:08:58] directhex: "Allocated Memory (RAM): 256"
[12:08:59] directhex: o_o
[12:09:23] Dibblah: MartinCleaver_: How exactly are you going to do capture cards in a VM?
[12:09:28] justinh: Video media thanks to Justin Hornsby http://www.juski.co.uk/ .. WTF?
[12:09:35] MartinCleaver_: I have a hdhomerun
[12:10:00] Dibblah: That may work for you then. Not a good idea, but still.
[12:10:06] justinh: MartinCleaver_: that'll likely kinda work then
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[12:10:19] MartinCleaver_: gave up on the capture card world when I realised I wouldn't be able to hand a PCI bus card to a virtual machine
[12:10:21] hachi: ooops, I've marked two channels as the same xmlid
[12:10:29] hachi: and now I don't know how to tell them apart and fix it
[12:11:28] justinh: but seriously mythbackend isn't exactly a runaway process which'll kill a machine. if your 'server' is so mission critical you need to sandbox apps, I wouldn't be using it for DVR duties anyway.. and if it's not so mission critical after all, why bother with vmware at all?
[12:11:46] MartinCleaver_: justinh: y, I noticed that thanks line there. Always nice to be thanked.
[12:12:09] MartinCleaver_: There's a virtual machine way of life...
[12:12:10] justinh: MartinCleaver_: more wondering what the 'video media' is.
[12:12:16] MartinCleaver_: ah
[12:12:30] justinh: a virtual machine way of life.. and a virtual machine bandwagon
[12:12:41] MartinCleaver_: ... where you sandbox everything. Affords you portability of the image between machines
[12:13:14] justinh: well, it's your funeral. I dunno why we spend so much time trying to talk people out of doing daft things here
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[12:13:27] MartinCleaver_: ... allows you to separate applications into groups. Push whole operating systems around...
[12:13:44] justinh: but for WHY?
[12:14:00] justinh: because you CAN, or... oh wait. nevermind
[12:14:26] MartinCleaver_: isolation. For instance, I run Quickbooks in its own Windows 2000 environment. Nothing else is in that environment. Its locked down hard and fast.
[12:14:28] Dibblah: Didn't you get the memo? Virtualisation is Where It's At.
[12:14:49] MartinCleaver_: I don't believe in doing things for the sake of it
[12:14:50] Dibblah: MartinCleaver_: Because you're in the habit of getting infected with malware?
[12:15:03] justinh: Dibblah: I did get the memo. it was written on loo paper, funnily enough
[12:15:04] MartinCleaver_: No.
[12:15:13] afm: a locked down windows 2000 env....it's locked down if it's powered off
[12:15:36] ** MartinCleaver_ runs a Mac for his desktop. Linux on his servers. **
[12:15:38] Dibblah: And Windows 2000, which is out of support, is of course not vulnerable to anything.
[12:16:08] MartinCleaver_: It has host-only networking. Runs on the mac.
[12:16:10] MartinCleaver_: it's fine.
[12:16:24] justinh: anyway, good luck. at least with a network capture device you stand the best chance. which may not be saying much
[12:16:31] MartinCleaver_: Thanks.
[12:16:37] afm: just tossing a log on the fire...off to work... :)
[12:16:48] MartinCleaver_: enjoy
[12:16:52] Dibblah: afm: Ewww. Doesn't that smell a bit?
[12:17:01] Dibblah: Oh. Wrong type of log ;)
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[12:17:35] justinh: time to see if I can remember my way to Maplin
[12:17:54] justinh: whoops. stock check first
[12:19:21] justinh: none in. heh. saved me a trip & parking fee
[12:19:58] justinh: they can shove that up their jumper then
[12:21:23] Dibblah: justinh: If mine from ebay works, I'll give you the seller's details :)
[12:22:23] ** MartinCleaver_ reads http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/ . . . 78831/inc/-1 and http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14348179  ;– other people have tried this set up. **
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[12:35:29] justinh: makes me sick how they're being sold as 'hd ready' when infact the opposite is the case in the UK
[12:35:52] troldrik: ?
[12:36:30] justinh: they can't be 'hd ready' if they're not dvb-t2 – and none are, of course
[12:37:04] justinh: there aren't even any dvb-t2 chipsets yet
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[12:39:57] justinh: the BBC, who so far are the only broadcaster to have tested it, have designed their own dvb-t2 modulator & demodulator using FGPAs.. so they're still a way off producing a chip :)
[12:40:39] troldrik: HD-Ready is just that it accepts hd inputs... not that it can receive it OTA.
[12:41:16] justinh: no wait.. NXP have a dvb-t2 demodulator :)
[12:41:19] troldrik: And some resolution requirements.
[12:41:56] justinh: troldrik: that's BS. cos HD over the air is going to be dvb-t2. so on a video device with no other inputs than for an aerial...
[12:42:30] troldrik: Um... what device only has a RF in these days?
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[12:42:52] justinh: troldrik: USB DVB sticks :)
[12:42:59] troldrik: Ah.
[12:44:19] justinh: so, being made by NXP I wonder if specs will be readily available or not to make a linux driver possible quickly
[12:44:52] hashbang: justinh: it's a bit naughty, but the issue is with Maplin (for not covering up 'HD ready' with a sticker) rather than the manufacturer (who probably produces one set of packaging for all markets, some of which will be doing HD over plain DVB-T)
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[12:45:28] justinh: yeah that's a good point
[12:45:41] justinh: they also say 'HD ready' on their website IIRC
[12:46:01] hashbang: justinh: oops. Print it out, then claim a refund in x years time for 'not as described' :-)
[12:46:57] justinh: I wonder if anybody has had a go at DSG yet for 'digital quality' :D
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[12:47:34] justinh: then again, digital could just be claimed as being synonmyous with 'low' or 'mediocre'
[12:47:52] hashbang: justinh: OTOH, is it not possible that OFCOM might bodge some HD-over-DVB-T by using lots of mplexes, possibly in conjunction with HD-over-DVB-T2?
[12:48:07] hashbang: justinh: digital = "it works, or it doesn't"
[12:48:44] hashbang: justinh: and, again, to play devil's advocate, some people's analogue signal is so bad, digital /is/ an improvement
[12:49:05] justinh: hashbang: no, it's not possible. though maybe they might consider it if their plan to sell spectrum freed by the analogue switchoff falls on its arse.. maybe
[12:49:55] justinh: the current plan is to make room for just ONE HD mux using dvb-t2 by moving SD channels in mpeg2 onto the other four muxes
[12:50:27] justinh: and it's looking ever more likely that one hd mux will be a single frequency network
[12:50:44] hashbang: justinh: how many channels broadcast anything worth viewing in HD, mind?
[12:50:53] justinh: indeed they ultimately plan to move all the freeview muxes to SFNs too
[12:51:04] justinh: thereby freeing up even more UHF band
[12:51:22] justinh: hashbang: only BBC.. maybe C4 at a push
[12:51:34] hashbang: justinh: SFN = same frequency, regardless of region/transmitter?
[12:51:39] justinh: yup
[12:51:52] hashbang: justinh: 'zactly. :-)
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[12:52:08] hashbang: QVC doesn't improve through being broadcast in HD, after all.
[12:52:19] hashbang: likewise ITV, Sky3...
[12:52:20] justinh: it's all very clever & requires very accurate time alignment at the tx site
[12:52:48] hashbang: justinh: I can imagine – otherwise you end up with collisions for people who can see two TXers
[12:53:09] hashbang: justinh: presumably that'll kill regional breakouts (local news) too?
[12:53:23] justinh: hashbang: more than likely
[12:53:38] justinh: ITV has been heading that way for ages anyway
[12:53:41] hashbang: justinh: or it'll break horribly for people who live in no-mans-land between two regions
[12:54:17] justinh: and they'll lose local ad revenues...
[12:54:20] hashbang: justinh: I think it was yesterday on BBC Breakfast – got London news for a minute or two, before BBC West kicked in.
[12:55:03] justinh: maybe it'll only happen on muxes where it's possible.. local programming only accounts for 2 channels really
[12:55:20] justinh: but we know what OFCOM are like ;)
[12:56:23] justinh: it's funny on some cable channels cos they get London adverts
[12:57:27] justinh: DAB is like that sometimes too actually. classicFM, talksport etc.. all have local ad breaks but not on DAB
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[12:58:05] Dibblah: The problem with QVC and SD is that most SD sets don't have very good luminance range.
[12:58:21] justinh: lol
[12:58:21] Dibblah: So the oooh sparkley of diamonique is lost ;)
[12:58:36] justinh: s/diamonique/shiny plastic
[12:58:49] Dibblah: Of course, the other problem with QVC is that it sells crap to gullible people, but hey.
[12:59:09] Dibblah: Better than someone I know, though.
[12:59:14] justinh: one of my aunts has a house chock full of their rubbish
[12:59:23] Dibblah: Got a really good deal on LR44 watch batteries.
[12:59:35] justinh: heh
[12:59:42] Dibblah: ... At cost price, said the watch repair guy.
[12:59:47] Dibblah: Only 3 quid each.
[12:59:50] Dibblah: She needed 3.
[13:00:00] justinh: maybe they sometimes do have some good deals but you'd have to watch a lot to get to them
[13:00:13] Dibblah: No, they don't.
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[13:00:38] Dibblah: I lived in a flat with a compulsive watcher.
[13:00:40] justinh: when we first got Astra at home it used to be great fun rolling in drunk & flicking over to the shopping channels to laugh at them
[13:00:43] Dibblah: They only sell crap.
[13:01:09] justinh: the kitchen/home decorating gadgets were the best
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[13:01:44] justinh: have to hand it to them.. the demonstrators do a brilliant job a)filling in dead air and b) making the stuff look like it does what it says on the box
[13:02:05] jduggan: lol
[13:02:18] justinh: they ARE evil.. but not half as evil as the 'quiz' channels though
[13:02:21] khunt: mythtv does not detect my tuners nova t 500 and nova t s2
[13:02:36] justinh: khunt: mythtv does not detect tuners full stop
[13:02:55] khunt: when i set up my capture cards
[13:03:11] khunt: and select CArd type = DVB DTV capture card
[13:03:17] justinh: that's better
[13:03:19] Dibblah: justinh: Yes. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2964207458363362133
[13:03:47] justinh: khunt: then I suspect you don't have the drivers working in linux for your cards
[13:03:50] khunt: Frontend ID: Could not get card info
[13:04:05] khunt: they are supported oob on my other system
[13:04:11] khunt: same distro
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[13:04:17] Dibblah: Or http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2138 . . . 43&hl=en
[13:04:18] justinh: same kernel version?
[13:04:23] khunt: yes
[13:04:24] justinh: Dibblah: that's hilarious
[13:04:40] justinh: khunt: the user you run mythtv-setup as a member of the 'video' group?
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[13:04:52] khunt: not sure
[13:05:02] justinh: make it so :)
[13:05:23] khunt: I appear not to have /dev/dvb folder?
[13:05:37] grokky: Mmmm. svn.mythtv.org down? or just from Australia? Can't hit it from my ISP, or my work systems, so it ain't me.
[13:05:39] justinh: looks like drivery not loadey :)
[13:05:50] justinh: grokky: it was down earlier. maybe still is down
[13:06:04] khunt: how do I load them? they have always done it on install before
[13:06:05] justinh: Dibblah: whoah.. that last one looks serious
[13:06:19] justinh: khunt: depends which distro you use.. etc
[13:06:22] grokky: ahh. good to know. Hope it is nothing serious. I absolutely hate it when my systems die.
[13:06:29] khunt: mythdora
[13:06:35] khunt: I know thats not you remit
[13:06:43] khunt: but any help would be appreciated
[13:06:47] justinh: and your other box runs?
[13:06:58] khunt: mythdora
[13:07:02] khunt: fedora spin
[13:07:03] justinh: and you got the other box working how?
[13:07:10] khunt: just installed it
[13:07:13] justinh: same release & everything?
[13:07:14] khunt: and set cards up
[13:07:19] khunt: same disk!
[13:07:24] justinh: weird
[13:07:28] hashbang: khunt: no firmware installed?
[13:08:04] khunt: I am a novice at linux I have only been using it for 6 months full time
[13:08:08] khunt: how do I check
[13:08:59] justinh: dmesg
[13:09:05] khunt: .../lib/firmware contains dvb-usb-dib-0700–1.10.fw
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[13:10:37] khunt: there is so much stuff what exactly am i looking for?
[13:10:45] khunt: is the a way to restrict the output
[13:10:47] khunt: ?
[13:10:56] hashbang: khunt: less, grep
[13:11:01] justinh: dmesg |grep dvb
[13:11:17] khunt: nothing
[13:11:36] justinh: well, maybe it's been too long since you booted it up :)
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[13:12:14] khunt: how do I load the drivers then?
[13:12:29] justinh: modprobe
[13:12:41] justinh: but which modules you need to load depends on which hardware it's for :)
[13:13:12] khunt: How can I find out?
[13:13:20] justinh: lspci
[13:13:24] khunt: I knwo what cards I got
[13:13:30] justinh: ok then. name em
[13:13:42] justinh: fwiw just forget the S2 tuner for now
[13:13:47] justinh: won't work in 0.21 anyway
[13:14:39] khunt: nova td 500 is the main one
[13:14:48] khunt: the latest one
[13:14:57] MilkBoy: hmm.. is a geforce 9400gt any good for a myth frontend?
[13:15:33] MilkBoy: or is a ati hd4550 better?
[13:15:35] khunt: Milkboy, that is what I have seems fine to me but I do get overscan but the frontend can correct that
[13:16:33] justinh: MilkBoy: nvidia > ATI in linux right now
[13:16:36] MilkBoy: khunt: which processor do you have?
[13:17:11] MilkBoy: justinh: mmm.. got this crappy integrated ati x200 something now.. it sucks big time
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[13:18:10] khunt: x2 4800
[13:18:45] MilkBoy: any guesses on the HD acceleration support diffrences in nvidia and ati for the near future?
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[13:19:49] khunt: my machine handles hd content fine
[13:20:32] khunt: i did this as root modprobe dvb-usb-dib0700
[13:20:33] justinh: MilkBoy: considering nvidia are the only ones with beta, WORKING drivers supporting video decoding offload to the GPU.. erm...
[13:21:00] khunt: now dmesg |grep dvb returns the dvb thingy but still no capture card in myth
[13:21:21] justinh: returns the dvb thingy. yeah. what thingy
[13:21:23] MilkBoy: justinh: mmm.. so maybe I'll give the nvidia and latest mythtv svn a try then
[13:21:56] khunt: usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_dib0700
[13:23:40] justinh: khunt: pastebin the output
[13:24:24] MilkBoy: tho I can't seem to get the mplayer vdpau stuff to actually do anything...
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[13:24:58] justinh: MilkBoy: vdpau only works on nvidia gear, with nvidia's latest drivers & the betas that preceeded them
[13:25:34] khunt: that is the output
[13:26:08] justinh: khunt: ok then, the whole output of dmesg in a pastebin
[13:26:44] khunt: its not on this machine
[13:26:50] MilkBoy: justinh: driver version 180.11 with appropriate patches for that version
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[13:27:35] MilkBoy: might be some bugs that are fixed in later versions tho..
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[14:14:11] khunt: justinh, you will never guess what the problem is!!
[14:15:40] directhex: arse cancer?
[14:16:01] justinh: your user isn't in the video group?
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[14:22:48] khunt: pci card not in properly
[14:23:14] khunt: almost arse cancer though
[14:23:56] justinh: very apt nick, that's all I'm gonna say
[14:44:30] dustybin: LOL
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[14:51:01] dustybin: i didnt realise nokia owned QT?
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[14:55:04] directhex: trolltech? sure
[14:55:44] directhex: On June 5th, 2008 Nokia’s voluntary tender offer is approved for all the shares in Trolltech. Nokia announced, on 17 June 2008, that it has completed its acquisition of Trolltech. On September 30th, 2008, Trolltech was renamed as Qt Software
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[15:01:55] dfgas: ok, i used to have a ati pci tv card and the quality of the picture sucked big time, what is a good card to get that does hd and will allow me to use as a pvr card?
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[15:03:55] justinh: hauppauge hd-pvr allows component capture of analogue HD
[15:04:08] justinh: or your other options are to capture OTA HD with a digital tuner card
[15:04:39] justinh: or to get a cable box with firewire from your cable company & use that but chances are you won't be able to record everything you pay for
[15:08:41] dfgas: what is better for hd content, pci or usb?
[15:10:17] dfgas: for tv card thingy
[15:11:08] justinh: pci doesn't suffer from random USB disconnects ;)
[15:11:43] iamlindoro_: Heh, MythVodka is the old "Usenetty downloady and play-y" plugin
[15:11:51] iamlindoro_: <sound of firearm cocking>
[15:12:11] dfgas: hmmm
[15:13:12] justinh: iamlindoro_: mythnettv?
[15:13:19] dfgas: i am just not sure what to buy, i have cable tv, with hd channels that i don't need a cable box for. i want to be able to record hd shows and playback in hd
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[15:13:37] iamlindoro_: justinh, I don't think so, I think it's the one from the youtube video (did you ever see that one?)
[15:13:40] justinh: dfgas: so you'll be relying on what you can get over the air
[15:13:51] justinh: iamlindoro_: yes. I sighed loudly
[15:14:24] iamlindoro_: yar
[15:14:33] dfgas: justinh: but it would be hooked up to cable, that will still work right to get hd content and record it
[15:14:37] unimaginative: dfgas, that's exactly what I'm doing. With a digital tuner, SOME stations can be recieved in HD.
[15:14:54] dfgas: i was looking at this ok, i used to have a ati pci tv card and the quality of the picture sucked big time, what is a good card to get that does hd and will allow me to use as a pvr card?
[15:14:56] dfgas: opps
[15:14:57] dfgas: sorry
[15:15:08] dfgas: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Searc . . . p;CatId=3493
[15:15:10] unimaginative: dfgas, but keep in mind that the only ones the cableco are REQUIRED to carry are your 'locals' (aka "must carry" channels)
[15:15:15] justinh: dfgas: HD is always receiveed digitally at the point of entry
[15:15:16] dfgas: its actually a pci-e
[15:15:37] justinh: so the issue of quality is moot since you get what you get
[15:16:16] unimaginative: justinh is right, with a digital stream, there's no such thing as "high quality" or "low quality"  – you either get it or you don't.
[15:16:29] dfgas: unimaginative: yah thats all we have, actually i don't have cable tv, just the internet, they block basic and basic expanded, but the blocker doesn't block the music, local hd channels and some other digital channels too
[15:16:51] dfgas: justinh: thats not a good quality one?
[15:17:03] justinh: MNGGGGGGGGGGGG. With digital, you either get it or you don't.. righ! but when you DO get something, you get what they give you. So if it sucks, it's not down to the quality of the tuner card
[15:17:21] dfgas: oh, sorry missed that message
[15:17:24] justinh: basically you get what the broadcaster gives you
[15:17:49] unimaginative: dfgas, you're recieving a compressed stream. the tuner doesn't really do anything except recieve the stream and hand it off to the program. You either get the stream in the condition it was broadcast, or you don't.
[15:17:56] dfgas: well when i had the ati pci tv card, i had it hooked up to cable and the quality of the picture sucked big time
[15:18:07] justinh: well you don't have to do that now
[15:18:13] justinh: that was analogue
[15:18:17] dfgas: true
[15:18:18] unimaginative: brand of tuner won't make the stream any better, You just have ones that are compatible with linux, or not.
[15:18:33] dfgas: hmmm
[15:19:08] unimaginative: dfgas, point of reference: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category . . . apture_cards
[15:19:15] dfgas: a dual tuner one doesn't actually give you the chance to record 2 shows right? that just a atsc and then a ntsc tuners right?
[15:19:24] justinh: the statement about digital isn't strictly true though.. you _can_ have a poor quality digital signal.. which'll show itself as issues where the video jumps & jerks around, goes blocky etc...
[15:19:41] justinh: dfgas: depends. dual tuners should mean TWO individual tuners
[15:19:56] justinh: otherwise it'd just be a 'hybrid' card – which would be a waste of time
[15:19:57] unimaginative: dfgas, just make sure it's actually DUAL and not HYBRID
[15:20:13] dfgas: hybrid?
[15:20:34] unimaginative: dfgas, the HVR-1600 is a hybrid card. It can recieve analog AND digital, just not at the same time.
[15:20:44] dfgas: ahh
[15:20:46] unimaginative: As an example.
[15:20:53] iamlindoro_: unimaginative, incorrect
[15:20:56] dfgas: thats what i was thinking, i was looking at that card
[15:20:58] dfgas: too
[15:21:01] iamlindoro_: the HVR-1600 *can* receive both at the same time
[15:21:04] iamlindoro_: it is not hybrid
[15:21:21] unimaginative: dfgas, http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_HVR-1250
[15:21:32] unimaginative: iamlindoro, oh?
[15:21:34] iamlindoro_: unimaginative, The 1250 *is* a hybrid card
[15:21:38] iamlindoro_: the 1600 is not
[15:21:45] iamlindoro_: unimaginative, yes.
[15:21:51] dfgas: now someone told me that, a normal pci card can't handle the hd on the slow bus, is this true?
[15:22:13] iamlindoro_: dfgas, nonsense, HD capture is a teensy fraction of what the PCI bus can handle
[15:22:17] unimaginative: iamlindoro, oh, I guess I got them confused :)
[15:22:44] justinh: whoever said that was talking out of their rectum, dfgas
[15:22:58] dfgas: lol
[15:23:05] justinh: now if they'd have said _uncompressed_ HD video I might tend to agree
[15:23:09] dfgas: k, thats why i was looking and pci-e as well
[15:23:23] justinh: since that's like > 1.5Gb/sec :)
[15:23:33] justinh: but no, it's all compressed :)
[15:23:35] dfgas: where would i get uncompressed? ota?
[15:23:41] iamlindoro_: "nowhere"
[15:23:46] dfgas: oh
[15:23:47] justinh: so way less than even < 20mbit/sec :)
[15:23:47] dfgas: lol
[15:24:07] dfgas: hmmm
[15:24:13] justinh: uncompressed HD.. hrm.. maybe in pro video applications.. film production.. er.. :P
[15:24:18] Daniel_DK123: Is svn.mythtv.org down? or is it just me?
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[15:25:03] iamlindoro_: Think it's been hit or miss the last few hours
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[15:25:25] dfgas: trying to decide what i want to get, its either 2 cases, 1 whole new computer for the tv, other case to replace hers, or get 1 case, guts for inside, and a tv card
[15:25:57] justinh: iamlindoro_: people with commit access can still do checkouts, if it's any consolation :)
[15:26:22] iamlindoro_: justinh, Heh, I'm not *that* dependent on getting ZOMG THE NEW REVISIONZ
[15:26:33] Daniel_DK123: okay – guess i'll try the refresh button once in a while..
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[15:28:58] Chutt: try now.
[15:29:21] jedi__: there was an hdmi capture card that would fit this general description: uncompressed video editors card.
[15:30:29] jedi__: got discussed and then promptly forgotten due to the whole 1.5Gb/sec thing.
[15:31:11] justinh: seems worky over http now :) cheers
[15:31:29] Daniel_DK123: (Chutt) : heh works now
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[15:48:21] dustybin: iamlindoro_: try and watch the show 'Dragons Den' you remind me of Peter Jones :P
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[16:03:48] simoo: Hi, if I want an ATI card that works well witht he opensource drivers can anyone reccomend one or a certain family?
[16:04:24] justinh: hmm. ati card that works well with open source drivers.
[16:04:27] justinh: hmm
[16:04:36] justinh: hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[16:04:59] simoo: is that a silly question?
[16:05:22] laga: ask in #radeon or a similar channel. they'll probably be annoyed because they probably get that question all the time, but at least it'll be on-topic there :)
[16:05:30] laga: Xv support would be good for mythtv
[16:06:05] simoo: thanks, would you guys recommend nvidia for myth boxes? I only have agp
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[16:09:45] Daniel_DK123: I run a nvidia fx5200 that does an excellent job...
[16:10:09] Daniel_DK123: fanless... nontheless
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[16:10:57] simoo: cheers
[16:11:06] jedi__: I am not sure I would say that any of the ATI cards work well... regardless of which driver you use.
[16:12:35] simoo: as I have to buy a graphics board I just felt like supporting the open source stuff, I have nvidia in my main myth box wich works great (looking forward to trying the new accelerated drivers too
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[16:13:07] jedi__: nvidia and intel seem to have the most potential moving forward.
[16:13:29] simoo: can you buy agp intel boards?
[16:14:02] jedi__: dunno, I've only used onboard stuff for intel.
[16:14:18] justinh: nope
[16:14:30] Daniel_DK123: maybe a new mainboard is in order – can be much more $ over a new graphicsadapter if any
[16:14:39] jedi__: with nvidia I've not really had any motivation to really find out.
[16:15:15] justinh: I'd be fully behind any open source graphics driver if it actually did what I need it to do
[16:15:27] ** jedi__ agrees with justinh **
[16:15:35] simoo: :) yeah... maybe I'll stick to nvidia
[16:15:40] justinh: I can't rightly advocate using something that wouldn't work for me :)
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[16:16:19] simoo: there is a pci nvidia card that works with VDPAU
[16:16:22] simoo: ?
[16:16:31] simoo: sorry, imeant is there?
[16:16:41] justinh: you'd be lucky
[16:16:47] simoo: right
[16:17:09] Daniel_DK123: geforce 8 and later afaik
[16:17:12] justinh: new motherboard with a separate pci-e card or integrated GPU would be cheaper
[16:17:32] justinh: you'd have to bite the bullet sooner or later anyway
[16:17:48] justinh: or hang on for a while & see what comes out in Nvidia's Ion platform :)
[16:17:48] directhex: need to bring up my new backend this evening
[16:17:58] directhex: justinh, you sound excited about ion
[16:18:10] simoo: not if I don't worry about VDPAU, then I could pick up a GPU for about £20
[16:18:12] justinh: I am. uncharacteristcally so
[16:18:16] directhex: justinh, the next tiny perfect frontend :p
[16:18:40] justinh: directhex: might finally be able to banish the noisy fugly hot backend box
[16:18:58] justinh: and have myself a _vialble_ STB form factor machine :)
[16:19:07] justinh: er.. viable, even
[16:19:08] directhex: damnit, i wanted to pick up an hdmi cable today. rargh!
[16:19:18] justinh: hdmi cable? got zillions here
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[16:19:35] justinh: nothing shorter than 10 metres though
[16:20:18] justinh: well, nothing left in < 10m since before xmas ;)
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[16:23:45] justinh: dustybin: the people in that video shouldn't be allowed to breed
[16:24:23] dustybin: the BBC video? haha
[16:24:53] ** iamlindoro sighs, installs inkscape on his work system **
[16:25:28] dustybin: look how red those figures are: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/default.stm
[16:25:32] dustybin: _worrying_
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[16:27:02] justinh: hmm. all that imaginary money which doesn't and never has existed is now worth even less. wow
[16:27:51] justinh: so er.. when 'all' the markets go down.. none go up.. none at all? am I just being thick ?
[16:28:02] iamlindoro: Oh, and not knowing british popular culture, was I recently compared to a Simon Cowell-like figure?
[16:28:04] shadn__: selling at all levels
[16:28:15] justinh: iamlindoro_: not simon cowell, no
[16:28:25] dustybin: iamlindoro: hha simon cowell and peter jones mixed in
[16:28:29] justinh: Peter Jones is a straight-talking millionare (bastard)
[16:28:31] shadn__ is now known as shadash
[16:28:39] dustybin: arrogant as hell
[16:28:50] iamlindoro: I may not like Simon Cowell, but he's seldom wrong
[16:28:56] justinh: no, straight talking & never suffers fools
[16:28:59] justinh: not arrogant
[16:29:10] dustybin: ok
[16:29:14] shadash: It's sad I'm getting a better return over the last year with CD's than anything else
[16:29:18] iamlindoro: Well, then I choose to take it as a compliment ;)
[16:29:35] justinh: anybody who sees him or Cowell as arrogant is a victim of themselves, but it's somebody else's fault
[16:29:48] dustybin: aye true
[16:29:51] justinh: (except it isn't anybody else's fault)
[16:29:53] shadash: Simon signs up everyone he makes famous to his record lable
[16:30:03] shadash: then makes even more $$$
[16:30:12] iamlindoro: No problem with that IMO
[16:30:19] shadash: me either
[16:30:32] shadash: It's a free pass to stardom
[16:30:36] iamlindoro: At least he's not that creepy pedo who created all the boy bands
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[16:30:54] justinh: hahahahaha
[16:31:00] dustybin: whos that?
[16:31:05] justinh: Louis Walsh
[16:31:06] shadash: my personal opionin is that bands should create themselves
[16:31:28] dustybin: haha oh yeah
[16:31:48] shadash: then market their services to the highest bidder
[16:31:58] dustybin: Alan Sugar is my favourite :D
[16:32:02] justinh: hell's teeth how do you know of him iamlindoro_ ?
[16:32:04] wagnerrp: well if they dont create themselves, then someone is just creating them using some generic formula, and you get the standard drivel
[16:32:28] iamlindoro: justinh: Heh, I was talking about our homegrown version
[16:32:31] iamlindoro: justinh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Pearlman
[16:32:37] justinh: roflmao
[16:32:39] iamlindoro: I guess every developed nation has to have one
[16:32:47] shadash: that guy was a major putz
[16:32:48] justinh: it's the law?
[16:33:05] shadash: but he discovers Timberlake
[16:33:12] wagnerrp: seriously? hes in jail? thats awesome!
[16:33:15] iamlindoro: justinh: UN treaties and all that
[16:33:30] dustybin: i want to see a show called 'American Inventor' i hope they show it here sometime
[16:33:44] justinh: put it this way, I'd sooner go for a dip in Michael Barrymore's pool than leave Walsh in charge of a child
[16:34:00] justinh: dustybin: it's on some backyard satellite/cable channel
[16:34:07] shadash: dustybin: that's a really good idea
[16:34:07] justinh: Sky One or summit
[16:34:08] dustybin: dam i dont have sat
[16:34:30] justinh: dustybin: but you do have TPB
[16:34:36] dustybin: ?
[16:34:46] justinh: good gawd Perlman looks even scarier than walsh
[16:34:51] dustybin: I have a dis-used SKY dish, but nothing connected to it
[16:35:02] justinh: dustybin: no payment, no Sky
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[16:35:20] dustybin: the dish is still there, i could plug that into a DVB-S if i wanted to
[16:35:25] iamlindoro: justinh: He's terrifying
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[16:35:44] iamlindoro: justinh: ABC did a reality series with him called "Making the Band" and it was like grooming-in-progress
[16:35:46] J-e-f-f-A_: dustybin: I watched it last season, some really good inventions on there, some totally off-the-wall inventions...
[16:36:03] dustybin: J-e-f-f-A_: did you see Peter Jones ?
[16:36:12] dustybin: He was in that show too at one point?
[16:36:37] J-e-f-f-A_: dustybin: Humm... I don't recall names... </me googles for a pic>
[16:36:44] justinh: iamlindoro: they showed some on 'T4' ages ago but I got bored with it quickly
[16:37:34] iamlindoro: justinh: I think I caught the first episode a number of years ago, but I was sincerely creeped out
[16:38:35] J-e-f-f-A_: dustybin: Yeah, he was one of the hosts/judges... I remember now.
[16:38:51] justinh: I think I was more interested in seeing how they did the studio side of things.. and was disappointed :)
[16:38:58] justinh: like they'd give any of that away. heh
[16:39:34] dustybin: J-e-f-f-A_: look out for The Apprentice, thats a UK show, one of my favourites :D
[16:39:39] directhex: justinh, microsoft speech synthesizer. that's where boybands come from :)
[16:39:57] dustybin: espeak $lyrics
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[16:40:09] wagnerrp: directhex: isnt that actually true of some j-pop band?
[16:40:20] justinh: it is, actually
[16:40:31] wagnerrp: the singer is CG, with an artificial voice
[16:40:49] justinh: or at least some are all CGI & just some session artist.. didn't think they were that good at synthing voices yet
[16:41:20] justinh: state of the art a few years ago was 'Lola'.. which was amazing for software but er, crap
[16:41:27] directhex: wagnerrp, yes
[16:41:51] wagnerrp: justinh: well the Gorillaz are all CG, with studio recorded voice, but i thought there was actually a singer who was fully generated
[16:42:10] shadash: there is software out there that fixes singers notes so they're more flat or less sharp so they sound on-key
[16:42:24] shadash: less flat
[16:42:32] directhex: wagnerrp, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genki_Rockets
[16:42:40] J-e-f-f-A_: The speech synthesizer on the Amiga was better than M$'s speech synthesis... ;-)
[16:42:52] directhex: shadash, remember cher's "believe" that sat on the charts like a walrus a few years ago?
[16:42:52] shadash: it can't do everything but it does "polish the rough edges"
[16:43:07] shadash: oh god that was horrible
[16:43:14] justinh: bah synthed from samples of various females
[16:43:18] shadash: digital modulator
[16:43:21] justinh: not the same as synthed from scratch :)
[16:43:23] directhex: shadash, the aliasing on the the on-key pitch shifting was painful
[16:43:43] directhex: justinh, yeah, well, genki rockets are the only one i knew off the top of my head
[16:43:49] shadash: yea it put shivers up and down my spine every time I heard it
[16:44:50] justinh: ah. Vocaloid was the package which features Lola
[16:45:38] justinh: basically sounds as bad as Cher on 'Believe'.. and any other lot who use that pitch-correcting junk
[16:46:38] shadash: well now yu understand how important it is to record in a good studio
[16:47:46] wagnerrp: personally, i think there are a fair number of singers who could be replaced by computer with an increase in quality
[16:48:21] wagnerrp: for instance, anyone who forcibly makes their voice waiver, thinking it make them sound like something other than a no talent hack that cant hold a note
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[16:49:02] shadash: The "warbleing" thing is obnixious
[16:49:23] shadash: makes me want to start punching faces
[16:51:14] justinh: leon/leona/whiney houston/saline dion/etc
[16:51:22] wagnerrp: punch throats instead, do the world a favor
[16:52:40] shadash: haha
[16:54:16] justinh: hometime!
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[16:55:36] gishdog: hello
[16:55:46] iamlindoro (iamlindoro!n=iamlindo@12.232.47.78) has quit ()
[16:57:10] gishdog: so... Can myth tv handle recording multiple video streams (with multiple video cards) but not as an off the air type box – more specifically record video from cameras in a studio connected to the capture cards?
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[16:57:58] cesman: yes, it can handle that
[16:58:01] wagnerrp: sure... but im positive there are better tools for doing such things
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[16:58:16] cesman: as there is not guide data to key off, you'd have to do a manual record
[16:58:42] gishdog: manual record would be fine – any documentation on setting something like that up?
[16:58:58] wagnerrp: standard myth install, just skip anything related to listings providers
[16:59:07] J-e-f-f-A_: gishdog: Are you looking to setup a security recorder with Myth?
[16:59:27] cesman: gishdog: http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
[16:59:41] gishdog: J-e-f-f-A_ – no – a recording system for several cameras for broadcast tv – basically a backup recording off the isolate camera feeds
[17:00:19] wagnerrp: typically that kind of footage gets stored raw
[17:00:19] gishdog: any specific motherboard or video card reccomendations for an application like this?
[17:00:36] wagnerrp: you really dont want to be doing editing on something thats already been converted to mjpeg
[17:01:00] gishdog: wagnerrp – well – typically that kind of footage doesnt get stored at all – I was hoping to get a DV stream captured instead of mjpeg
[17:01:44] wagnerrp: what kind of outputs do the cameras have?
[17:02:06] gishdog: composite, svideo or component
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[17:03:31] wagnerrp: just get any cheap framegrabber card, make sure it works on linuxtv.org, and set up ffmpeg to capture to your codec of choice
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[17:04:03] gishdog: didnt realize ffmpeg captured – thought it was just for transcoding
[17:04:20] wagnerrp: i believe it does have video capture modes
[17:04:25] wagnerrp: i know mencoder does
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[17:05:02] iamlindoro: It does indeed
[17:05:42] wagnerrp: teenager kills parents after having halo 3 taken away... blame microsoft!
[17:06:13] gishdog: hmm – I'll have to dig up some docs on it – and then as far as doing multiple streams of video I just need to get multiple cards installed? can I run more than one instance of ffmpeg like that?
[17:06:36] wagnerrp: the judge was quoted as saying the defendant 'had no idea at the time he hatched this plot that if he killed his parents, they would be dead forever'
[17:07:23] iamlindoro: He thought they would re-spawn , so he camped out in their bedroom?
[17:07:26] Led-Hed (Led-Hed!n=LedHed@75.151.70.113) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:07:34] wagnerrp: if i kid gets to be 17 years old and doesnt yet understand the concept of death, the whole family needs to be axed
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[17:09:27] wagnerrp: damn, he even looks like Gomer from Full Metal Jacket... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7826663.stm
[17:10:37] wagnerrp: seems the kid couldnt even get murder right
[17:10:56] wagnerrp: shot his dad in the head at POINT... BLANK... RANGE... and the dad survives
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[17:11:31] jesse: Hello. If I want two TV cards for mythtv, do I need two soundcards also?
[17:11:54] jesse: I don't think either of my cards is bttv, so I can't use btaudio (right?)
[17:13:12] wagnerrp: jesse: that depends on your TV card
[17:13:40] wagnerrp: if you have a digital or IVTV tuner, you get a nice pre-packaged mpeg stream
[17:14:06] wagnerrp: other cards have built in sound recorders you can access
[17:14:35] wagnerrp: its hard to find a card you actually need loopback audio for anymore
[17:14:46] jesse: I'm using an MPEG-2 card.
[17:14:58] jesse: So, that's good, right?
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[17:15:08] wagnerrp: thats recommended for analog tv
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[17:15:23] jesse: Well, I have a directv box, so I think I need analog.
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[17:15:55] wagnerrp: yeah, use the svideo and audio inputs on the card to capture the feed out of the DTV box
[17:15:58] jesse: I couldn't get the D10–300 box to work with a digital only card. Maybe I'm just bad.
[17:16:08] gishdog: so – i cant seem to find any docs on ffmpeg (or mencoder) for capturing a live stream
[17:16:15] wagnerrp: youll need an IR blaster to control the STB
[17:16:47] sphery: zDen: What do you mean by "second screen (not xinerama/twinview)"
[17:16:51] jesse: No, I've got a perl script and a USB interface for the channels. (What's STB?)
[17:17:04] wagnerrp: gishdog: http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg-doc.html#SEC3
[17:17:10] wagnerrp: jesse: set top box
[17:17:42] jesse: wagnerrp: Oh. Well, I'm okay there. Ah, I didn't notice the "line in" port on the card. I just assumed it was line out!
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[17:18:14] wagnerrp: unless you have a PVR-350, or one of the other rare framebuffer devices, theyre all line inputs
[17:18:40] jesse: wagnerrp: So, I should take the audio output and put an adapter on it for the line in?
[17:18:54] sphery: zDen: as I'm pretty sure that the only way you can have a second screen without xinerama/twinview/(some other xinerama relative) is to have 2 separate X processes running on the system, at which point you'd have DISPLAY :0 and :1 and Xlib ScreenOfDisplay would return 0 on each (i.e. screen != display)
[17:19:17] wagnerrp: if your STB has RCA outputs, and your capture card has a 1/8" input, yes, you will need an adapter
[17:19:20] zDen: sphery: it's configured in second screen section in xorg.conf... so not used xinerama or twinview
[17:19:33] sphery: zDen: that's xinerama (or some relative)
[17:19:51] wagnerrp: sphery: you could just... not use xinerama
[17:19:53] gishdog: wagnerrp – thanx
[17:20:02] wagnerrp: get screens :0.0, :0.1, :0.2, ...
[17:20:11] zDen: sphery: no its not... I have in xorg.conf: Option "Xinerama" "false"
[17:20:18] sphery: zDen: there's a setting in myth called, "Display on screen" that you need to set to the screen number you want... It's probably now at All, but you want either 0 or 1 or ...
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[17:20:36] sphery: zDen: regardless, you need to set that setting
[17:20:46] jesse: wagnerrp: Hmmm... I don't seem to have an adapter lying around. Darn.
[17:20:54] wagnerrp: note that there is very little chance of getting two separate X servers running on a single video card
[17:20:59] sphery: zDen: it's under Appearance
[17:21:37] zDen: sphery: yes but i dont think that i will solve that because my mythtv says 2009-01–14 18:25:19.260 Primary screen: 1.
[17:21:50] zDen: i will check that anyway...
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[17:22:53] J-e-f-f-A_: jesse: It's the same cable you'd use to play an ipod on a sterio with RCA inputs... just used in reverse...
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[17:24:05] jesse: Ah, I *do* have one. Down in the bottom of the box with other useless cables.
[17:24:11] zDen: sphery: Are you sure that there is such option... i didnt find it...
[17:24:25] jesse: Hot dog! I have sound! Thanks, wagnerrp and J-e-f-f-A
[17:24:42] zDen: sphery: the real problem is that Xlib DefaultScreenOfDisplay return wrong value... it return 0 when it should be 1
[17:24:56] sphery: zDen: it's only displayed if X tells Myth there are multiple screens... Since X isn't telling us that, you have to use DISPLAY to specify where to put mythfrontend
[17:25:59] zDen: sphery: yes, I'm running mythtv with DISPLAY=:0.1 and myth know it because it report screen 1 as primary
[17:26:54] sphery: and mythfrontend is being displayed on screen :0.1?
[17:27:03] sphery: but the video is on :0.0 or something?
[17:27:32] sphery: if so, that's the problem with running an unstable build of Myth that uses an alpha feature of the video driver that's barely been integrated into Myth
[17:27:44] sphery: (and, really, it's probably a VDPAU limitation)
[17:27:52] zDen: yes, of course mythtv is on :0.1 and vdpau fails because it gets wrong screen from DefaultScreenOfDisplay
[17:28:04] zDen: but for example opengl rendering works
[17:28:07] sphery: so, probably a driver/VDPAU limitation
[17:28:15] J-e-f-f-A|work: jesse: np btw... ;-)
[17:28:33] zDen: no its not vdpau limitating because if i make change to the source manually, then it works... you see?
[17:28:53] J-e-f-f-A|work: zDen: then submit a patch...  ???
[17:28:58] sphery: well, find a way to fix the source so that it always does the right thing or just patch yours manually until someone else does, then
[17:29:55] zDen: sphery: yes... but is not good patch because screen number is hard coded... so if you are running "normal" system (screen number 0), then it will be broken
[17:30:27] sphery: right, so find a way that always works or patch yours with a hardcoded value until someone else fixes it properly
[17:31:38] zDen: sphery: yes... thats why I was just asking that if someone know something about how mythtv and xlib works and I could figure it out and make things right...
[17:32:26] sphery: ok, I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't just a configuration problem before you started taking up the devs' time
[17:33:31] zDen: sphery: ok... but it looks like that I'm not able to write that patch myself... I think that have to just make a report so someone else can do it
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[17:33:33] wagnerrp: that may actually be one of a few bugs that would not get outright deleted without a patch
[17:33:38] wagnerrp: (on trac)
[17:33:58] zDen: wagnerrp: url?
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[17:34:32] sphery: wagnerrp: though, since it's a VDPAU bug, it might get deleted (since VDPAU is /not/ yet supported--even in trunk)
[17:34:43] wagnerrp: sphery: good point
[17:41:05] J-e-f-f-A|work: Who knows, it might be well received if it's not 'bleeped' about, but as a documented fix – ie "This isn't the right way of fixing it, but it works for me.", and may be a one-line fix for the 'real' implementation...
[17:43:21] J-e-f-f-A|work: [ot] Gee, either the lcdproc developer(s) are on vacation, or don't give a hoot about my CrystalFontz 634 USB hang on startup... It's been 2 weeks without a peep about it, but several other questions/answers flying around... Oh well...
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[17:53:08] Similian: is there a exit myth skript
[17:53:13] Similian: would like to init 0 there
[17:55:12] wagnerrp: as in a script that runs when mythfrontend exits?
[17:55:45] J-e-f-f-A|work: Similian: Utilities/Setup -> Setup -> General -> Page 5 "Miscellaneous" -> Halt Command <-- perhaps?
[17:55:57] Similian: Sweet mr Jeff
[17:56:00] Similian: thankyou
[17:56:19] J-e-f-f-A|work: wagnerrp: ^^ I guess that did it... ;-)
[17:56:21] J-e-f-f-A|work: Similian: NP.
[17:57:34] wagnerrp: one typically doesnt directly set runlevels unless they are debugging
[17:58:20] Similian: isnt init 0 a metaphore yet?
[17:59:13] Similian: i like to init $AWESOME
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[18:19:03] dustybin: I have started to apply for unpaid internship positions, why didn't I think of this before!
[18:19:33] wagnerrp: im confused...
[18:19:34] laga: dustybin: cool.
[18:19:37] J-e-f-f-A|work: dustybin: Perhaps because you may have been looking for a paying job before?
[18:19:49] wagnerrp: why would you want an unpaid internship?
[18:20:01] dustybin: yep. Internship is a bit like going to college, but a lot better, its the real thing :D
[18:20:25] wagnerrp: and theres all of no certification
[18:20:39] dustybin: wagnerrp: I dont have IT experience, so a 3 month internship will help
[18:21:03] wagnerrp: theres a thing called 'co-op education'
[18:21:14] dustybin: I would like to be sitting next to a advanced highly skilled 50 year old greying linux hacker, that would be cool :D
[18:21:23] wagnerrp: you take classes for a quarter, you work in industry for a quarter.... for profit
[18:21:34] dustybin: nice
[18:21:46] J-e-f-f-A|work: dustybin: Gee, you in the Boston area? We could use some free help up here... ;-)
[18:21:55] dustybin: nope, im in UK
[18:22:09] wagnerrp: dustybin: school around here have been doing it for almost 100 years
[18:22:17] dustybin: wow
[18:23:13] wagnerrp: i pity the industries that take unpaid internship as a expectation
[18:23:23] justinh: internship, from the employer's point of view.. slave labour
[18:23:35] justinh: same attitude as the old YTS scheme
[18:23:39] dustybin: maybe so, its a advantage to both parties
[18:23:48] dustybin: experience for me, free work for them
[18:24:08] justinh: well, it might've been, had the people I'd seen employed been assets ;)
[18:24:15] dustybin: heh
[18:24:42] justinh: but yeh it's gonna help you get out of the catch-22 situation you're in. No experience, no job. no job, no experience
[18:25:03] dustybin: indeed
[18:25:15] dustybin: in these current times, a lot of companies might say yes to that
[18:25:20] wagnerrp: gah... still no UPS
[18:25:33] wagnerrp: they usually drop off packages well in the AM
[18:26:29] Similian: gawd
[18:30:20] dustybin: holy cows
[18:30:23] dustybin: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/8254469
[18:30:59] dustybin: everything is collapsing :(
[18:33:28] Similian: PS3 took massive damage in Holiday sales last season
[18:33:30] Similian: niiiiicceee
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[18:37:55] meshe: didn't Nortel already have major problems just a couple years ago?
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[18:39:11] GreyFoxx: Several years ago they laid off like 10,000 people or something crazy
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[18:39:45] meshe: yeah, that's what I thought, time for a bailout of the tech industry </sarcasm>
[18:40:35] wagnerrp: cars get bailouts, airlines get bailouts, techs get bubbled
[18:41:23] meshe: i've worked for the same .com since 1999 that has just kept growing
[18:41:47] iamlindoro: Let's just al find jobs in the porn industry
[18:42:00] iamlindoro: The one industry guaranteed to stay afloat
[18:42:12] meshe: that and video games (mmo's)
[18:43:17] jackson__: heh, the porn industry is asking for a $5 billion federal bailout :)
[18:43:30] wagnerrp: seriously? why?
[18:43:32] iamlindoro: It was a joke
[18:43:37] iamlindoro: They asked as a joke
[18:43:53] laga: are they getting oneß
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[18:44:28] meshe: why not?
[18:45:22] iamlindoro: You keep your Ess zetts to yourself, mister
[18:45:23] meshe: the government has tons of money to give away to companies that don't know how to run their businesses
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[18:51:27] wagnerrp: ugh... why are you still out for delivery...
[18:52:07] shadash: where was the tech bailout in the late 90's
[18:52:22] shadash: wasn't pets.com "too big to fail?"
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[18:53:39] shadash: oh yea I forgot THERE WAS NO TECH BAILOUT in the late 90's and the world kept spinning
[18:54:07] wagnerrp: thats because the tech companies had just started up, and really didnt have many employees
[18:54:14] meshe: hehe, yup, and the tech industry kept growing
[18:54:16] wagnerrp: just a bunch of investment capitol
[18:55:25] shadash: but all the crappy businesses got weeded out
[18:55:55] meshe: i wonder what would happen if the Big 3 went out of business
[18:56:11] shadash: could you imagine what the computer industry would be like it Diamond Rio continued to make crappy mp3 players?
[18:56:32] wagnerrp: the trade deficit would balloon, since you would have no choice but to buy a foreign car
[18:56:41] meshe: they could continue, but apple would have still dominated the market regardless
[18:57:01] shadash: Or SiS was bailed out because of their superior graphics chips
[18:57:46] shadash: who's to say? maybe if diamond rio had bailout $$$ there would be no ipod or iphone
[18:58:13] meshe: or *cringe* SCO
[18:58:21] shadash: exactly
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[18:59:14] shadash: how would you feel if you had to keep an idiot on your dev team because they were the bosses son or daughter?
[18:59:33] shadash: what about 10 or 15 bosses sons or daughters?
[18:59:47] meshe: no thanks, i'd quit
[19:00:06] shadash: exactly let them go. move on
[19:02:42] shadash: the word "bailout" is a mask for government allocating your tax dollars to their chosen few
[19:02:56] shadash: why not give myth a bailout
[19:03:14] shadash: ugh... im just grumpy
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[19:07:54] meshe: our banks are still in good shape, though we did jump in and add to the auto industry bailout with $5b
[19:09:39] shadash: Are the banks really in "good shape" or are they just pushing off the payments to a later date? Or are they spending your tax tollars to put more finance charges on you?
[19:10:34] dustybin: mythtv should open up a office in silicon valley, we could have justinh and iamlindoro as the executive sales team :P
[19:10:47] iamlindoro: why? Neither of us cares about anyone else using it
[19:10:52] dustybin: heh
[19:11:18] shadash: offices are getting less expensive up there
[19:11:20] meshe: lol
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[19:11:52] Paladine: just wait for the next tech company to go tits up and you will be able to get an office cheap
[19:12:23] dustybin: if windows 7 fails. could that be the end of ms?
[19:12:30] meshe: hah, i wish
[19:12:35] justinh: damn, really feel like Udo now that valgrind didn't work
[19:12:35] dustybin: dam :(
[19:12:47] justinh: why do so many people want MS to fail?
[19:12:54] dustybin: dunno lol
[19:13:32] shadash: MS used to be a big bully. Either work with them or don't work
[19:13:39] shadash: then came Linux :-)
[19:13:44] meshe: i personally hate their products, if someone else could take a big chunk out of them we'd see more major software companies developing for other platforms
[19:13:47] jduggan: everybody hates successful companies and people, generally
[19:14:04] dustybin: aye true
[19:14:23] dustybin: i think if windows was solid, based on unix, and was secure, i wouldnt hate them
[19:14:25] justinh: other platforms... so that's PCs, Macs and er.. hmm..
[19:14:27] shadash: The only product keeping M$ in the server roon is Exchange + Active Directory
[19:14:30] shadash: room
[19:14:40] meshe: i don't necessarily want them to go under, just lose a large chunk of market share
[19:15:05] shadash: too bad Zimbra never really happened
[19:15:12] meshe: windows, mac, linux is what i meant, maybe a new OS
[19:15:44] shadash: Also Apple should use LDAP and Make an Exchange alternative
[19:16:37] iamlindoro: Apple does use LDAP and make an exchange alternative
[19:17:08] shadash: yea but on calander
[19:17:10] shadash: no
[19:17:22] shadash: well no M$ calander
[19:17:33] iamlindoro: No *MS* Calendar, their CalDAV implementation works fine
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[19:18:49] khunt: where is the default path to mythweb?
[19:18:50] shadash: I actually use LDAP at a location I manage. All windows + Linux passwords are the same and when you change it in one place it applies to both platforms
[19:18:57] justinh: what default path?
[19:19:12] meshe: what distro khunt ?
[19:19:17] justinh: normally $webserverrootpath/mythweb
[19:19:26] dustybin: I downloaded Solaris 10, i didn't realise it was free, Sun make money from support
[19:19:56] meshe: dustybin: i think they GPL'd it in the last year or so
[19:20:16] dustybin: meshe: there is OpenSolaris and Solaris, they are both free to download and use
[19:20:39] dustybin: ideal if your a Java coder
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[19:22:59] jesse: Hey ho. I'm moving mythtv to a new machine and followed the HOWTO for copying the database over, but I keep getting "Duplicate entry" errors when I try to restore it.
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[19:23:43] jesse: Is there a problem in copying a database from an older version of mythtv to a newer?
[19:24:15] xris: khunt: default path is wherever you put it.
[19:25:35] khunt: mythdora
[19:27:42] jesse: All I really want to copy is the scheduling data. Which tables contain that?
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[19:30:21] iamlindoro: read sections 23.5–23.7 of the manual
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[19:32:49] dustybin: iamlindoro: have you read the _whole_ mythtv manual?
[19:32:53] jesse: iamlindoro: Is that a response to me? If so, where do I find the manual?
[19:33:12] iamlindoro: jesse: Yes, that's for you, it's at www.mythtv.org linked off the main page
[19:33:17] iamlindoro: it should give you the tables you need
[19:33:24] iamlindoro: dustybin: Yes. Why?
[19:33:29] dustybin: LOL JEEEEEEEEZE
[19:33:43] jesse: iamlindoro: Oh, sorry, I *have* read those sections!
[19:33:55] jesse: iamlindoro: It was the HOWTO I was using!
[19:34:26] jesse: iamlindoro: I wonder: if I drop the database, I'll have to setup my card again, right?
[19:34:31] iamlindoro: jesse: Ah, I see what you're saying-- do you have new recording rules on the new box?
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[19:36:01] jesse: iamlindoro: No, I don't. I'm not worried about losing any recording rules.
[19:36:22] iamlindoro: jesse: It *should* restore cleanly unless you're trying to steamroll over existing entries in the new DB-- it is likely enough to do "TRUNCATE TABLE tablename;" on each of those tables in the new db, then using those steps to restore the backed up tables
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[19:38:04] jesse: iamlindoro: Then I must be doing something wrong. I get "Duplicate entry" errors.
[19:38:17] jesse: iamlindoro: Oh, wait, I see that the record table is *not* empty.
[19:38:32] iamlindoro: jesse: sounds like you're on to what's wrong-- exactly, the tables need to be empty
[19:38:47] jesse: What's the easy way to empty just those tables?
[19:39:14] jesse: I don't want to lose my other settings (video card, etc.)
[19:39:44] iamlindoro: "TRUNCATE TABLE tablename;"
[19:40:19] jesse: Ah. That did it. Thanks.
[19:40:25] iamlindoro: np
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[19:57:38] jesse: There's *gotta* be a faster way of extracting the right information. Grepping the dump file seven times is pretty damn slow.
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[20:01:23] justinh: try hitting it harder, or turning up the juice supplying the cutaneous electrodes. It works for Jack Bauer
[20:04:18] iamlindoro: TELL ME!
[20:04:34] iamlindoro: Where *slap* is the *slap* DEVICE?
[20:04:52] jesse: Well, we could certainly write a single grep instead of seven. Surely that would be faster?
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[20:05:18] iamlindoro: ideally this isn't the kind of thing you do every day ;)
[20:05:27] sphery: jesse: are you talking about a partial DB restore?
[20:05:49] jesse: sphery: I guess so. Moving my mythtv files to a new machine.
[20:05:51] sphery: jesse: if so, the grep approach is broken
[20:05:56] jesse: Oh?
[20:06:24] jesse: I guess a better way is just to dump the tables you need, right?
[20:06:36] sphery: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database_Backup_and_Restore + http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . _of_a_backup , but you'll need a patched version of the restore script (which fixes the breakage that's the same as the breakage in the grep approach).
[20:06:45] sphery: http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythconverg_restore.pl
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[20:07:33] jesse: Er, what if I used the grep approach and it seems to work? Do I need to start over?
[20:07:40] sphery: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/6013
[20:07:52] sphery: jesse: if you use the grep approach it will corrupt your data in the DB
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[20:08:13] iamlindoro: sphery: Even if he's just on .21?
[20:08:14] jesse: You're kidding.
[20:08:17] jesse: Dang.
[20:08:59] iamlindoro: "mysqldump (from MySQL 5.0 and above, at least) always uses UTF-8 for the dump unless otherwise instructed."
[20:09:00] iamlindoro: ahhhhh
[20:09:07] jesse: Yeah, I am on 0.21 I think.
[20:09:13] sphery: jesse: the restore script in trunk will work for a "blacklisted" partial restore (i.e. partial restore including plugin data), but not for a whitelisted one (partial restore of only mythtv data). The restore script I linked above fixes both partial restores
[20:09:28] sphery: iamlindoro: yeah... we learned a /lot/ from the whole Gentoo configuration thing
[20:09:40] jesse: Er, so...? sphery, I need to start over?
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[20:09:49] iamlindoro: sphery: I stopped paying attention to that debacle after my head started hurting
[20:09:57] sphery: jesse: I /highly/ recommend redoing the restore using the script at http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythconverg_restore.pl
[20:10:03] sphery: jesse: it works with /any/ version of mythtv
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[20:10:13] iamlindoro: jesse: Yes, follow sphery's way, just truncate the tables in the new DB and go his route
[20:10:15] jesse: Okay. Dagnabit.
[20:10:20] sphery: jesse: see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . _of_a_backup for all the details
[20:10:28] jesse: Got it. Thanks.
[20:10:31] sphery: jesse: and, you might want to do a partial restore including plugin data, anyway
[20:10:41] sphery: (which you can only really do with the script)
[20:10:45] jesse: plugin data? What's that?
[20:11:01] sphery: sorry I didn't notice earlier--been working on a patch to detect DB corruption
[20:11:18] sphery: plugin data, meaning data for MythMusic, MythVideo, MythWeather, ...
[20:11:25] iamlindoro: jams' new MythSettings app does a fantastic job moving settings from host to host, hopefully that makes it in for .22
[20:11:34] iamlindoro: s/app/plugin and app/
[20:12:01] jesse: I don't have any data for those yet.
[20:12:50] jesse: So I should do the backup with the perl script, too?
[20:12:51] sphery: jams: I still haven't gotten a chance to look at the mythsettings app stuff, but once I do I plan to make it the place to do a hostname change (unless you'd like to take the hostname change code from the mythconverg_restore.pl and implement it in your app) :) It makes more sense to do hostname changes with it.
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[20:13:11] jesse: Or does my earlier mysqldump file work okay?
[20:13:15] iamlindoro: sphery: Already doable in his app
[20:13:25] sphery: jesse: the earlier backup will work
[20:13:31] iamlindoro: sphery: with the "copy_from" function
[20:13:58] iamlindoro: sphery: at least, in a tiny bit roundabout way (change hostname, open mythsettings, copy_from old hostname)
[20:14:06] sphery: jesse: (even using the script to restore) but you may want to look at getting the backup script working and put it in a daily or weekly cron job...
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[20:15:00] sphery: iamlindoro: `does it have a delete host?
[20:15:37] iamlindoro: sphery: It has a delete *copy*, would be a couple lines to add delete existing host... I see what you're getting at about the stale data, but it is at least doable
[20:16:59] jesse: sphery: Thanks for the advice. You too, iamlindoro.
[20:17:14] iamlindoro: jesse: np, sorry, didn't realize that approach had recently become out-of-date
[20:17:42] sphery: jams: (like I said, I haven't gotten a chance to look at it, yet, but just in case) your copying settings should also look at "encoded" hostname info in SGweightPerDir:<hostname>:<directory> . The restore script also deletes rows for the host in tvchain, but we can ignore that since it will eventually be cleaned up by the housekeeper.
[20:17:52] jams: yeah adding "delete current host" would be trivial
[20:18:08] sphery: jesse: good luck--and it goes very quickly with the script... I've used it to restore a DB 15 times today (testing a patch)
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[20:18:52] jams: sphery- i will take a look at that. As it stands it has little chance of making it into .22 but after making the changes greyfoxx suggested i'm hopeful it will.
[20:18:54] sphery: jams / iamlindoro : yeah, in truth, the stale data is really not important, but it's something that users would worry about...
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[20:19:42] sphery: iamlindoro: does delete copy mean it deletes the specified host, then goes in and copies settings from another?
[20:19:58] jams: i have a python script to change the hostname of the machine, but it would also work well with mythsettings.
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[20:20:08] iamlindoro: sphery: No, it makes a distinction between settings for the host, and "backed up settings" for a host
[20:20:18] sphery: jams: I /really/ want to see it in 0.22--it would be nice for packagers to be able to set up defaults with it and for users to be able to use when required
[20:20:25] iamlindoro: sphery: so the current delete deletes whatever backed up copy you have specified
[20:20:34] sphery: iamlindoro: oh
[20:20:44] iamlindoro: rightly so IMO
[20:20:47] sphery: Yeah, the only reason for a delete is to allow users to "reuse" hostnames...
[20:21:05] sphery: If we just leave the old stale data in there, the user would have to know what names can't be used.
[20:21:10] jams: sphery- right, but you could restore defaults to get a clean slate if you wanted.
[20:21:57] sphery: OK... I should really take a look at it before trying to make suggestions. :)
[20:21:59] jams: sphery- the only delete that occurs from the settings table is when the new settings are about to be applied. If you don't delete them you send up with duplicated.
[20:22:53] jams: "replace into" does not replace as the term indicates. At least not when the table allows for duplicates.
[20:22:54] jesse: Oops. I must have done something wrong. Nothing happened when I restored.
[20:23:22] sphery: jesse: no output on the console?
[20:23:39] jams: sphery- you probably know mysql sql better then me, so i'm open to suggestions on things that could be done in a better way.
[20:23:52] jesse: sphery: It said that it successfully restored, but there's no other output
[20:24:09] sphery: that's a good restore, then, "Successfully restored backup.
[20:24:21] sphery: if you want other output, you need to use --verbose
[20:24:35] jesse: sphery: But the tables are empty still!
[20:25:21] sphery: jesse: you dropped the DB, then ran mc.sql, then did mythconverg_restore.pl --partial_restore
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[20:25:57] justinh: hmm. was walking the doggy & thought about a new pbb layout. got to thinking that maybe we could do with an online help function which'd guide users around a bit.. maybe hook into lircrc & even name the remote buttons
[20:26:06] jesse: sphery: Er, no. I was being too lazy. I tried just to truncate the relevant tables. Guess I should have followed the directions more closely.
[20:26:23] jesse: sphery: I didn't want to lose the settings I already have (video card, etc.)
[20:26:24] sphery: jesse: yeah, definitely follow the instructions...
[20:26:31] sphery: getting bad data is a bad thing
[20:26:44] justinh: it'd need a new keybinding of course, which some themes could opt to show onscreen all the time
[20:26:59] ** justinh wonders what H is already used for **
[20:27:19] iamlindoro: justinh: Had been talking about that over the past few days
[20:27:48] justinh: heh I missed that, honestly
[20:28:00] iamlindoro: Binding a key to a <webbrowser> popup that showed the docs/wiki page for that spot, and maybe ultimately youtube videos walking through certain bits
[20:28:05] justinh: maybe I've only _consciously_ missed it
[20:28:51] justinh: wouldn't necessarily make it docs/wiki links though, since most of the things I'm envisioning are precise operational help
[20:28:54] iamlindoro: Makes for a fair bit more work on the theme, but I think it's a *really* nice touch
[20:29:25] justinh: though I can see the case for your idea – one set to update & only one set :)
[20:32:07] justinh: ruh? wth is up with flash player in hardy? websites are saying I don't have it installed when I do, but when I uninstall that & install the .deb from the adobe site it says there's a newer one in my repo. bum!
[20:33:29] sphery: justinh: H is PREVCHAN
[20:33:39] sphery: (at least in TV Playback context)
[20:34:13] jesse: sphery: I'm sorry to say, I followed the instructions and my tables are still empty.
[20:34:59] sphery: jesse: use --verbose and pastebin all the output, please
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[20:36:12] sphery: jesse: ideally after doing another DROP/mc.sql
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[20:37:03] jesse: I'm not a regular IRC user. Remind me how pastebin works.
[20:37:29] sphery: http://pastebin.ca/
[20:37:48] sphery: then just paste, submit, and send back the URI it gives you
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[20:42:40] sphery: jesse: I guess I should also ask why you're doing a partial restore? Is there some reason you're wanting to throw out the old ocnfiguration?
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[20:43:15] jesse: sphery: New computer.
[20:43:35] sphery: jesse: likely a full restore would be appropriate... You just might need to do a hostname change http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . d_or_backend (which you do after a full restore)
[20:43:59] sphery: really, unless you know that you have a bunch of bad data in teh DB, a partial restore isn't that useful.
[20:44:49] tanderson: What about it you want to back up the history of recorded programs?
[20:44:55] jesse: sphery: Well, I just thought that a fresh DB is nice.
[20:45:04] sphery: The worst case--assuming you have a good DB backup of everything from the old host--you'd do a full restore, hostname change, then delete all video sources/capture cards and reconfigure just video sources/capture cards/input connections/channels
[20:45:07] jesse: http://pastebin.ca/1308342
[20:45:20] sphery: jesse: OK. Spring cleaning is a valid reason for a partial restore.  :)
[20:45:46] jesse: sphery: As you can see, restored 0 lines.
[20:45:54] sphery: jesse: yep
[20:46:03] sphery: what version of mysql?
[20:46:08] sphery: is it 4.x?
[20:46:33] jesse: 12.22 on the old machine? Is that plausible?
[20:46:52] jesse: 14.12 on the new.
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[20:47:25] jesse: When I used the "grep" method, the records were inserted.
[20:47:43] sphery: that's mysqldump?
[20:47:50] sphery: 12.22?
[20:48:04] sphery: what's mysqldump --version on the old machine give?
[20:48:18] sphery: jesse: did you use the with backticks or without backticks version?
[20:48:19] jesse: mysqldump is version 9.11
[20:48:27] jesse: sphery: Without.
[20:48:28] sphery: whole output, please
[20:48:42] jesse: mysqldump Ver 9.11 Distrib 4.0.23a, for slackware-linux-gnu (i486)
[20:48:42] jesse:
[20:48:56] jesse: Ah. That's the 4.x you were asking about?
[20:49:11] sphery: jesse: try re-downloading the script (I have an update in it) http://misc.thirdcontact.com/MythTV/mythconverg_restore.pl
[20:49:40] sphery: jesse: yeah, I didn't think anyone had MySQL 4.x, anymore, so I didn't think there'd ever be a backup without backticks
[20:50:38] jesse: Well, updating slackware is a little time consuming, so I'm behind on that machine.
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[20:50:47] jesse: I'll convert it to Ubuntu soon.
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[20:52:11] sphery: Yeah. Good that I found out, so I appreciate your help/feedback.
[20:52:29] sphery: I'll post a patch once we get it working.
[20:52:32] jesse: Looks like your fix is sensible. I'm waiting still...
[20:53:14] jesse: Ah. Good. Restored rather more than 0 lines.
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[20:54:04] jesse: That's that! Thanks, sphery.
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[20:55:07] jesse: Now, I'm running late! Must get dinner on the table like a good housewife.
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[20:55:40] jesse: (Er, that joke doesn't work so well on IRC, but "jesse" is a masculine name....)
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[20:55:57] jesse: In any case, thanks much!
[20:56:08] sphery: jesse: thank you for finding a bug
[20:56:40] dfgas: i have fix the lines in my screen from deinterlace but now i have a different kind of lines in my screen when stuff moves fast. i know its not the tv. its in both windows and linux. could it be my video card? its a fx5500
[20:58:00] sphery: dfgas: lines or blockiness?
[20:58:16] dfgas: lines
[20:58:21] dfgas: its kind of weird
[20:58:24] sphery: more than one on screen at a time?
[20:58:27] justinh: using a TV output?
[20:58:32] dfgas: vga out
[20:58:37] dfgas: hooked up to hdtv
[20:58:47] justinh: ah. you need to enable deinterlacing in playback profiles
[20:58:51] dfgas: i am thinking maybe card is the problem
[20:58:55] justinh: nah
[20:58:59] sphery: 5200 works great
[20:59:03] dfgas: did that, it fixed one kind of lines
[20:59:05] sphery: especially with vga
[20:59:18] justinh: ah could be 'tearing'
[20:59:28] sphery: dfgas: what deinterlacer did you choose? bob? If so, change it to kernel or linearblend
[20:59:28] dfgas: tearing sounds more like it
[20:59:35] sphery: tearing is unlikely in windows
[20:59:45] dfgas: just normal deinterlace
[20:59:49] justinh: tearing is caused by the refresh rate being different to the source video rate
[21:00:03] justinh: sphery: oh you'd be amazed
[21:00:32] justinh: I get tearing on my main monitor output on my desktop but not the 2nd monitor
[21:00:37] sphery: dfgas: so are you playing 50 frames/sec video on a 60Hz display or something?
[21:00:40] justinh: or vice-versa
[21:01:02] dfgas: sphery: no idea, just runing a vob file
[21:01:20] justinh: dfgas: you in europe or USA/canada/japan?
[21:01:25] dfgas: us
[21:01:34] justinh: and your refresh rate is?
[21:01:56] dfgas: 60
[21:02:32] justinh: still vsync/refresh rate related no doubt
[21:02:48] jesse: Agh. Now what? When I try to watch a file remotely, I get 2009-01–14 16:01:15.448 Error: File '/storage/mythtv/1292_20090114090000.nuv' missing.
[21:02:48] jesse: 2009-01–14 16:01:15.482 Error: File '/storage/mythtv/1292_20090114090000.nuv' missing.
[21:02:48] jesse: 2009-01–14 16:01:15.514 Error: File '/storage/mythtv/1292_20090114090000.nuv' missing.
[21:02:48] jesse: 2009-01–14 16:01:15.546 Error: File '/storage/mythtv/1292_20090114090000.nuv' missing.
[21:03:10] justinh: jesse: hostnames the same on the backend & frontend perchance?
[21:03:25] dfgas: justinh: how could i fix that?
[21:03:39] justinh: dfgas: search on openglvsync
[21:03:39] dfgas: like i said, its in any software i have used
[21:04:03] dfgas: k
[21:04:06] jesse: justinh: Yep.
[21:04:31] jesse: Well, I'll be back. Gotta run.
[21:04:36] justinh: jesse: make the frontend hostname different. myth uses hostnames to determine which machine is which so it thinks the file is local on your frontend :)
[21:04:43] justinh: this won't be the case on 0.22
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[21:05:08] sphery: jesse: does the new machine have a different hostname? If so, you needed to do http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . d_or_backend before starting a myth program
[21:05:10] J-e-f-f-A|work: ... but still not a good idea to have two machines with the same hostname on the network...
[21:05:33] jesse: sphery: Oh, sorry, I misunderstood!
[21:05:40] sphery: are we sure he has 2 differnt systems?
[21:05:46] sphery: or just a combined frontend/backend?
[21:05:53] jesse: justinh: They have different hostnames. I'm using IP addresses.
[21:06:00] J-e-f-f-A|work: he said "when I try to wach a file remotely"
[21:06:10] justinh: misunderstood that? I give up :)
[21:06:14] sphery: guess remotely does say 2 hosts :)
[21:06:19] jesse: justinh: Hey, some of us are slow.
[21:06:33] jesse: Yes, I'm using my laptop to view a show.
[21:06:38] sphery: jesse: so is the backend using the same hostname as the backend was before the restore?
[21:06:42] jesse: It works when I'm viewing locally.
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[21:06:56] jesse: sphery: Yeah, in both cases, I use the IP address.
[21:07:04] sphery: right, but hostname?
[21:07:25] jesse: That hasn't changed.
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[21:07:37] jesse: Er, wait.
[21:07:46] sphery: jesse: then your Storage Gruops need fixing (in mythtv-setup)
[21:07:52] justinh: so they definitely aren't the same hostnames on the remote frontend & backend?
[21:08:18] jesse: sphery: There is no real hostname on the new machine. Not one that the other machine recognizes.
[21:08:27] jesse: sphery: I;ll check.
[21:08:36] justinh: jesse: not having a hostname won't help either
[21:09:10] justinh: the backend doesn't have to 'know' any hostnames as such
[21:09:26] jesse: justinh: Well, I'm a little unclear on how hostnames are used.
[21:09:40] justinh: settings are stored in mythtv's database as hostname based
[21:09:57] sphery: jesse: What's the output of: SELECT hostname FROM recorded WHERE basename = '1292_20090114090000.nuv';
[21:09:58] justinh: i.e. each frontend's settings are stored & retreived by the machine hostname
[21:10:28] sphery: and recordings are stored with a hostname that's used to contact the backend that recorded the show so mythfrontend can ask the backend to stream the show
[21:10:40] justinh: you don't actually put hostnames in mythtv-setup *unless you have working DNS on your network, which loads of people dont
[21:11:00] ** justinh curses the damn adobe-flashplugin package again **
[21:11:09] jesse: OHHHH!
[21:11:12] jesse: I get it.
[21:11:13] sphery: justinh: yeah, and in 0.21-fixes and below, even with working DNS, it wouldn't work.
[21:11:38] justinh: really? even with DNS? heheh
[21:11:41] jesse: sphery: I'm a little slow. That's where the problem is. The records all have the hostname of the old machine.
[21:11:47] jesse: Gah.
[21:11:48] sphery: only recently got the hostname lookup functionality with the Qt4 switch
[21:12:00] justinh: ah you changed the backend hostname? cripes
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[21:12:11] sphery: jesse: so you needed to do the http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . d_or_backend
[21:12:13] jesse: sphery: I see I can fix that with the restore thing.
[21:12:21] justinh: yay :)
[21:12:21] sphery: jesse: change oldbackend to new backend
[21:12:29] jesse: Right. Well, that has to wait. Dinner really will be late now.
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[21:12:42] sphery: jesse: though now that you've already started a myth program running on the new system, you'll likely have duplicates...
[21:12:43] jesse: And my wife will beat me like a rented mule.
[21:12:55] jesse: sphery: Yes, how bad is that?
[21:13:05] sphery: jesse: you need to do another restore, then hostname change, then start mythtv-setup on either/both systems
[21:13:06] justinh: hey some people pay good money for that kind of treatment :P
[21:13:08] jesse: sphery: I'll phase out the old machine later this week.
[21:13:21] sphery: dups prevent the name change from working...
[21:13:31] sphery: so you have to go back to a clean restore without the dups
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[21:13:58] jesse: sphery: Agh. Got it.
[21:14:09] jesse: Later.
[21:14:15] sphery: jesse: best approach with myth is to never change hostnames :)
[21:14:31] sphery: (i.e. change host/hardware as often as you like, but take the hostname with you)
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[21:15:02] jesse: sphery: Not so easy at present. I need the old machine with the old name for about a month.
[21:15:28] jesse: Back later.
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[21:23:14] wagnerrp: well my receivers came in the mail
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[21:23:43] wagnerrp: and loading the lirc_mceusb2 module causes something to crash
[21:23:55] wagnerrp: the machine is still running, but the module cannot be removed
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[21:24:18] justinh: lircd using it still?
[21:24:26] wagnerrp: lirc is killed
[21:24:52] wagnerrp: i mean the module load crashed, with stack trace and all
[21:25:00] wagnerrp: but the kernel thinks its loaded
[21:25:00] justinh: ah
[21:25:05] wagnerrp: and a forced unload doesnt work
[21:25:34] justinh: ouchy
[21:27:41] wagnerrp: im going rebuild the kernel, move it to the tftp server, and reboot
[21:27:52] wagnerrp: just to make sure im actually running the kernel defined in the source tree
[21:28:51] wagnerrp: i also need to cut a hole in the floor to run wires
[21:29:09] justinh: sounds like you have it under control
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[21:34:41] mersault: Are there any Toronto based users pulling data down OTA here? I'm looking advice on the best way to deal with SD's lack of digital channel listings in Canada.
[21:38:37] justinh: hrm, seems the desktop effects BS is turned on.. wonder if that's what's causing my gl painter segfaults
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[21:42:07] sphery: Any users in here with non-latin1 characters in their MythTV data?
[21:44:02] sphery: (i.e. Chinese/Japanese/Korean or other 3-byte characters)
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[21:48:46] J-e-f-f-A|work: mersault: btw, There's a survey on SD now to guage the interest of support for other countries.
[21:48:53] MilkBoy: yay. the old athlon64 3000+ can play HD now =)
[21:49:29] J-e-f-f-A|work: mersault: If they're broadcasting EIT (which is hit-or-miss here in the us), you can use that...
[21:49:56] MilkBoy: if only I could get mythtv to work with vdpau also
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[21:52:10] hachi: it would actually be really useful if there was a way for SD to tell me what program is playing on a channel in my lineup from their frontend
[21:52:43] wylie_ (wylie_!n=wylie@68.142.115.74) has quit ()
[21:52:43] hachi: cause I've got two channels botched in my mythtv listings... because the channels are lying about their callsigns
[21:52:45] Anduin: hachi: They don't have that information currently (and zap2it etc still exist)
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[21:53:21] hachi: wait
[21:53:35] hachi: SD doesn't know what programs are in my lineup?:
[21:53:37] J-e-f-f-A|work: hachi: or use tvguide.com ... for 'manual' lookups...
[21:53:43] hachi: I thought I was downloading that information from them
[21:53:49] hachi: I tried to do that last night
[21:53:55] hachi: the callsigns don't line up right or something
[21:54:02] Anduin: hachi: you get the actual info from tms servers still
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[21:54:20] hachi: huh, okay
[21:54:36] Anduin: hachi: and zap2it may be closer, try it
[21:55:01] hachi: I used to use zap2it... I thought that system was shut down
[21:55:23] iamlindoro: zap2it labs was shut down, the www.zap2it.com web site is still around
[21:55:24] Anduin: hachi: the data portion
[21:55:27] hachi: oh
[21:55:35] J-e-f-f-A|work: hachi: You can't use it for mythtv downloads, but you can still do manual lookups on it.
[21:55:37] J-e-f-f-A|work: ^^ yeah.
[21:59:40] iamlindoro: Windows 7 MP3 imports corrupts the MP3... hahahaha
[22:00:46] hachi: yeah, can lose up to several seconds
[22:00:57] hachi: they put out a patch, I guess
[22:01:38] ** iamlindoro somewhat wonders why in the world they were touching the file in the first place **
[22:02:19] hachi: it was supposedly rewriting the tags or something
[22:02:21] justinh: did somebody forget to untick the 'mess with my files' box?
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[22:10:24] shadash: sounds like a way to force you to update and register your system with M$
[22:12:18] ** sphery can't wait until his new laptop with Vista Home Premium 64-bit arrives so he can run an fdisk on it and replace it with GNU/Linux. **
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[22:15:34] jesse: sphery: Say, about that hostname problem. Can't I just change the existing database rather than start over?
[22:15:59] jesse: sphery: I just have to replace the old hostname with the new in one table, right?
[22:16:10] clever: jesse: in your mysql.txt or config.xlm, you can set a fake hostname for the local system
[22:16:27] clever: so mythtv will think the hostname is 'xyz'
[22:16:32] jesse: clever: Thanks, but I want a longterm solution.
[22:16:48] clever: the hostname comes up in a number of tables all over the place
[22:17:04] jesse: Darn.
[22:17:05] clever: wouldnt be easy to find and update each posible place by hand
[22:17:09] sphery: jesse: what are all those hostnames you had in the old system and the ones you have in the new system?
[22:17:40] jesse: sphery: The old system had hostname phiwumbda and the new system will have hostname leibniz.
[22:18:03] sphery: but the new system (at least) has more than one hostname, right/
[22:18:57] jesse: Er, mythbackend will be running only on one machine, so just one hostname.
[22:19:08] sphery: frontend hostnames are important, too
[22:19:39] sphery: I need to know the exact configuration of hosts before and after to tell you what your options are
[22:19:45] jesse: Oh. Well, there's a few different frontend hosts, including hume, frege, epicurus.
[22:20:11] jesse: Epicurus is the only frontend that's been running on the existing system (aside from phiwumbda itself).
[22:20:40] sphery: have you started a backend on leibniz, yet?
[22:20:44] sphery: (or mythtv-setup?)
[22:21:09] jesse: Yes, but only just this afternoon (when you were helping me).
[22:21:34] sphery: OK, so you need the system that used to be phiwumbda to become leibniz, right?
[22:21:50] jesse: Yeah, essentially.
[22:22:54] sphery: If you use the change hostname, now, it will try to change all occurrences of phiwumbda to leibniz. However, when you started mythtv-setup or mythbackend on the host leibniz, it created all the settings for leibniz. So, when the script tries to change phiwumbda to leibniz, it will create duplicate entries in the settings and fail.
[22:23:19] sphery: If you do a clean import, then change hostname, there's no leibniz, yet, so phiwumbda becomes leibniz.
[22:24:02] sphery: At this point, the only option is to do the following (which only changes some data--and leaves a lot of garbage in your system): UPDATE recorded SET hostname = 'leibniz' WHERE hostname = 'phiwumbda';
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[22:24:37] mersault: does a frontend cache video that it's streaming from an hdhomerun to the local disk in any way?
[22:25:01] iamlindoro: The frontend doesn't stream from the HDHomeRun at all
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[22:25:19] jesse: sphery: I don't want garbage in my system.
[22:25:30] jesse: sphery: What sort of garbage would be left?
[22:25:37] iamlindoro: HDHomeRun->Backend. Backend streams to the Frontend, and no, it does not write it to disk
[22:25:46] mersault: iamlindoro, so it streams from the hdhr to the backend and then to the frontend?
[22:25:50] iamlindoro: yep
[22:25:52] sphery: jesse: and, since you're trying to do /both/ a partial restore /and/ change the hostname from phiwumbda to leibniz /using/ leibniz, the fact that a partial restore requires running mythtv-setup (which creates settings using the hostname on which it's run), means you would actually have to jump through some hoops to get a clean partial restore with hostname change...
[22:26:43] sphery: jesse: i.e. do a full restore of the old DB, change the hostname from phiwumbda to leibniz, then do a backup, then use the /new/ (hostname-changed) backup to do a partial restore (drop db, run mc.sql, run mythtv-setup, do partial restore)
[22:27:12] sphery: jesse: the garbage is /probably/ not an issue, but I can't guarantee that it won't cause issues some day...
[22:27:30] sphery: I'm a bit OC, so I would do the clean approach...
[22:27:42] jesse: er, it's starting to sound more complicated.... I don't have to jump through so many hoops if I just drop the database and use your script, right?
[22:27:50] jesse: OC?
[22:28:11] jesse: I've used the script before. Might as well do it again.
[22:28:25] sphery: hoops required if doing a /partial/ restore and a hostname change on the system whose hostname is the desired new hostname
[22:28:59] sphery: based on what I now know of what you want to do, you have to do the full restore/hostname change/backup/partial restore
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[22:29:30] sphery: /or/ you have to use a system whose hostname didn't exist on the old setup to run mythtv-setup for the partial restore :)
[22:29:59] jesse: Doesn't mythtv-setup have to run locally?
[22:30:02] sphery: actually, I should say, a system whose hostname isn't the destination hostname of a hostname change
[22:30:09] jesse: I.e., on leibniz?
[22:30:12] sphery: you can run it on any system
[22:30:21] jesse: Who knew?
[22:30:35] jesse: Okay, so I can do it remotely from this laptop.
[22:31:02] jesse: Can you walk me through the process, so I'm clear what I need to do?
[22:31:31] sphery: so, for example, if Epicurus didn't exist on the old setup and it's a new host (one that you plan to configure, rather than change the hostname of an old system to), you can use it to run mythtv-setup
[22:31:36] jesse: I'm still a bit uncertain why my needs are so difficult.
[22:31:51] sphery: ok, so epicurus is hte laptop?
[22:31:58] jesse: Let's say Hume.
[22:32:03] sphery: ok, hume...
[22:32:12] sphery: didn't exist on the old setup?
[22:32:34] jesse: No. Hume's never had a version of mythfrontend compatible with pw's backend.
[22:32:42] sphery: re: "I'm still a bit uncertain why my needs are so difficult."-->because changing hostnames is a real pain in Myth
[22:33:04] sphery: ok, so you plan to configure hume from scratch, right?
[22:33:34] jesse: Well, hume's been running mythfrontend with the new server today. Does that matter?
[22:33:36] sphery: i.e. do mythtv-setup and/or mythfrontend settings starting with the defaults and changing for hume, right?
[22:34:30] sphery: (meaning you're not planning to do any hostname change where hume is the new hostname, right)
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[22:35:30] jesse: sphery: Right. Hume won't be the backend server.
[22:35:43] sphery: jesse: OK, I'm sure I have you really confused by now... There are 2 ways to fix your system from here.
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[22:36:44] lwizardl: hi
[22:36:49] jesse: sphery: I want the easy way. You've almost talked me out of importing the stuff from phiwumbda.
[22:37:06] sphery: One way, you can just "get rid of" all the settings for leibniz (that were created by running mythtv-setup/mythbackend since the restore). To do this, you just do a hostname change from leibniz to "garbage", then hostname change from phiwumbda to leibniz . Then, the hostname "garbage" is the garbage in the system.
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[22:38:06] sphery: The cleanest approach is to drop your DB, run mc.sql, run mythtv-setup /on hume/, do a partial import, then do a hostname change from phiwumbda to leibniz , then run mythtv-setup and/or mythbackend on leibniz
[22:38:49] sphery: either should work.. If you do the "garbage" approach, you can get rid of most of the garbage after the fact with: DELETE FROM settings WHERE hostname = 'garbage';
[22:38:56] jesse: You say "do a partial import and *then* a hostname change". I thought your script did both at the same time.
[22:39:37] sphery: nope... http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Database . . . d_or_backend "Note that changing the hostname is performed on an existing database and does not restore a database."
[22:39:52] sphery: that allows you to change multiple hostnames
[22:40:48] sphery: it's also a safer approach than the grep/sed type approach for when people use "common" hostnames like "myth" or "video" or something else that's likely to occur somewhere besides a hostname
[22:41:05] jesse: Wait. So, I've recently *done* the partial import. I can just delete the settings for leibniz and then do a name change, right?
[22:41:55] sphery: you'd need to do the name-change from liebniz to garbage, then do a name change from phiwumbda to leibniz then delete the garbage settings (because there's more to the hostname than just settings)
[22:42:35] sphery: and with that approach you're may have to do the video source/capture card/channel configuration again ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034 )
[22:42:40] jesse: Oh.
[22:42:43] jesse: Pooh.
[22:42:54] sphery: yeah... Changing hostnames is a pain.
[22:43:31] sphery: the other option is to change the (system--not the mythtv) hostname of phiwumbda to anything, then change the system (not mythtv) hostname of leibniz to phiwumbda
[22:43:57] sphery: then, when you run the backend, it's /still/ running on phiwumbda (even though it's new hardware)... I.e. you "moved" the hostname with Myth.
[22:44:09] sphery: by system hostname, I mean the one returned by the hostname command
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[22:44:33] jesse: No, that's more complicated than you'd think. Phiwumbda is still running many services I need.
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[22:45:41] sphery: If that's the case, you're stuck doing it in mythtv... So you have the 2 options--quickest (with garbage temp hostname) and cleanest (which means another partial restore)
[22:45:49] jesse: Is there a way to amend the script so that, if an insert fails because of dup, it notes the failure and continues? That might be a better situation for me, no?
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[22:46:13] jesse: I don't want phiwum's settings, but I want other bits from him.
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[22:46:52] sphery: the script just does a blind change of all matching values for all hostname columnss in all tables... The significance of the failure is /very/ different on different tables, so I wrote it to fail fast (at the first error).
[22:47:09] jesse: Yeah, I guess that's the safest.
[22:47:20] sphery: modifying it to continue would actually be a challenge (i.e. would likely require rewriting the whole name-change portion)
[22:47:27] sphery: so it's not really a quick-fix
[22:47:49] jesse: It's not much work --- for me. That's a quick fix.
[22:47:58] jesse: You may disagree.
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[22:49:42] sphery: I don't think it would be too slow/difficult to just DROP DATABASE IF EXISTS mythconverg; / mysql -umythtv -p mythconverg < mc.sql / run mythtv-setup on hume / mythconverg_restore.pl --partial_restore --directory=<whatever> --filename=<whatever> / mythconverg_restore.pl --change_hostname --old_hostname="phiwumbda" --new_hostname="leibniz"
[22:50:18] jesse: Okay. I'll do it that way. You seem pretty certain.
[22:50:25] sphery: That's the best way
[22:51:06] sphery: make sure you don't use leibniz to run mythtv-setup until after the name change
[22:52:04] jesse: What should Hume do when I run mythtv-setup? Should I make any changes, or do they not matter?
[22:53:13] clever: u just had a weird problem with my frontend
[22:53:15] clever: i*
[22:53:25] sphery: jesse: nope... The whole purpose of running mythtv-seutp is to create the database schema that you can populate with the partial restore
[22:53:27] clever: i started to play a recording and it just sat at a black screen forever
[22:53:58] sphery: no need to change any settings... Just start it, then exit it (and say, "I know what I'm doing" if it complains about missing storage groups or whatever)
[22:54:10] clever: turns out the STB was formated by the cable co and reset to defaults, and turned off
[22:55:17] clever: lost allmost 20 hours of recordings
[22:55:49] sphery: clever: I got a lot of those "middle of nowhere on a dark night" recordings when I used DISH--until I finally got a discrete power on signal that I ran on a cron job about 15 mins before primetime every day
[22:56:12] sphery: discrete power on ftw!
[22:56:23] clever: know of any similar code for the dct2000?
[22:56:40] clever: i also need to go in and fix my channels, it seems rogers added more
[22:57:48] sphery: clever: nope, sorry... Some user posted the codes for DISH. I looked all over and could only find pronto ones, but couldn't find any way to convert them to LIRC
[22:58:01] clever: :(
[22:58:12] clever: i could try random searching:P
[22:58:42] sphery: I think there are some windows programs that can do conversions, though, if you happen to stumble across a pronto remote definition with discrete power signals for your box
[22:58:44] clever: or research how the on/off/toggle codes are related in other remotes
[22:59:53] clever: odd
[22:59:58] sphery: Yeah, that might help. I know that once this guy posted the DISH codes (as opposed to raw codes that everyone else had used until he reverse engineered the actual codes), they made perfect sense... It was easy to figure them out.
[23:00:06] clever: acording to the new guide in the STB, i should have space and history now
[23:00:10] sphery: just needed the starting point.
[23:00:10] clever: but i dont see them in schedulesdirect
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[23:00:56] sphery: may take SD a while to update... I think you can send a message telling them the lineup has changed (might want to try tuning them, first, to make sure they're actually there, though)
[23:01:16] clever: we arent paying for the channels so they should just come up blocked
[23:01:18] sphery: log in to SD and you can find the feedback/change request stuff
[23:01:31] sphery: oh...
[23:02:12] clever: ive allways wanted the space channel and never got it localy
[23:02:36] clever: now 60==space
[23:02:36] alexvd_: Hi i had to do a channel update because directv changed channels around. As a result my recording schedules now keep getting confused and not recording or trying to record the directv digital channels instead of the OTA digital channels. How should i fix this?
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[23:02:55] clever: and acording to SD, i dont have 60 at all
[23:04:09] clever: sphery: neat, we even have a few HD channels in the guide now
[23:04:16] clever: which simply say that my STB cant do hd
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[23:05:11] clever: and theres the space channel again at 281....
[23:05:51] jesse: sphery: Alright, I did it your way and I look foolish for thinking that it was too complicated.
[23:06:11] jesse: sphery: Thanks for holding my hand through that. I really appreciate the help.
[23:06:29] sphery: jesse: the problem wasn't that the approach was complicated--just all the background involved was very complicated :)
[23:06:33] sphery: glad it's working for you.
[23:06:50] sphery: alexvd_: are you using "this channel" recording rules?
[23:06:51] jesse: I had no idea that hostname played such an important role in myth.
[23:07:04] sphery: jesse: yep, that's why changing hostnames is a real pain :)
[23:07:33] GreyFoxx: Why change the hostname ?
[23:08:05] sphery: moved his Myth backend from one system to another and the old system was and is still running a bunch of other non-Myth services
[23:08:09] jesse: GreyFoxx: It's not changing the hostname on an existing machine, but moving the database to a different machine.
[23:08:16] GreyFoxx: Or even, why not use the mysql.txt unique identifier to "Fake" the hostname just for mythtv's purposes so it wouldn't matter what the systems hostname was
[23:08:30] sphery: it still matters for a backend
[23:08:31] jesse: GreyFoxx: That's cheating, that's why.
[23:08:37] GreyFoxx: jsse: Pffft :)
[23:08:43] alexvd_: Sphery: let me check I think what I am setting is record in the timeslot every week. Now it seems to want to record on analog 4, 4–1, and the directv 4 (33*).
[23:08:49] clever: GreyFoxx: i also mentioned that allready
[23:08:49] sphery: as the remote systems would try to contact the non-Myth system for streaming a recording
[23:09:02] GreyFoxx: jesse: I use that option to have multiple seperate FE's running on one machine :)
[23:09:19] sphery: GreyFoxx: but it only works for settings
[23:09:35] GreyFoxx: it works for everything
[23:09:41] sphery: not for hostnames in the recorded table?
[23:09:59] sphery: i.e when a remote frontend tries to contact the machine that recorded a show to stream it
[23:10:02] GreyFoxx: Anything where myth looks up it's own info via a hostname
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[23:10:40] GreyFoxx: And if you enable myth always stream from master it would never talk to any backend except for the IP defined as the master
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[23:10:45] jesse: GreyFoxx: Whacky!
[23:11:02] jesse: GreyFoxx: Er. Wacky. (Spelling! Bleh)
[23:11:08] sphery: yeah, with the MBE override, it would work--assuming the MBE has access to the files
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[23:11:19] GreyFoxx: But there couldn't be places where it might fail, I've just yet to encounter any of them
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[23:11:58] gbee: could
[23:12:26] clever: mythfrontend's upnp used to fail at finding a backend
[23:12:32] clever: if the client port was allready in use
[23:12:36] clever: by a 2nd frontend
[23:12:38] sphery: alexvd_: if you used "this channel" rules, you'll probably have to either a) delete and recreate the rules, b) change the rule to an "any channel" rule, then have it find an episode of the show and change the rule back to a "this channel" rule or c) never use "this channel" rules (just change it to "any channel")
[23:12:43] ** iamlindoro punches the Network Applet **
[23:12:49] clever: but that got fixed a while ago
[23:13:30] iamlindoro: So anyway, thank god I got that -users thread to find out I'm enjoying TV less without commercials
[23:13:31] alexvd_: Sphery: so yes the original recording schedule was setup " record in this timeslot every week". It was only selected for the OTA 4–1 channel and worked fine. When I did the channel update it then went in an wanted to record on all the inputs. I edited that and now it is defaulting to the HD Directv channel. This doesnt work because I am waiting to hookup my hdpvr on a stable build (still collecting dust)
[23:15:32] sphery: alexvd_: easiest approach is probably to delete and recreate the schedules
[23:15:36] alexvd_: sphery: thanks for the answer. So I think I tried to delete and redo the rule but it keeps wanting to record on the #$(@) directv HD channel. I will try it again and hopefully it works. Otherwise I will try and do what you suggest
[23:15:39] sphery: s/schedules/rules/
[23:16:17] alexvd_: sphery: that is like 5 years of recording rules
[23:17:03] alexvd_: Sphery: i guess its time to clean them up. Wanted to try out some new stuff anyway but my wife is going to hang me by my b@ll$
[23:17:37] sphery: alexvd_: you may want to redo your video sources/input connections and this time define the most-preferred inputs first (I'm guessing they've been changed since you originally connected them). The video sources part of: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264034#264034
[23:18:17] sphery: you really need to have your most-preferred inputs defined first, and it sounds like they're no longer defined that way.
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[23:19:52] gbee: that's a stupid limitation
[23:20:10] sphery: iamlindoro: what kind of lesson is it going to teach users when ja nn e fixes the mythbackend memory leak within days of finding a user who's actually running mythbackend under valgrind (and applying the debugging patches)?  :)
[23:20:24] sphery: gbee: you mean the most-preferred inputs defined first is stupid?
[23:20:39] iamlindoro: sphery, I GUARANTEE you that he is thinking to myself, "See? I did that!"
[23:20:52] gbee: sphery: yeah, if it were true, actually you can assign priorities to inputs
[23:21:02] alexvd_: sphery: I did have them at higher priorities. I will go back and check them
[23:21:13] alexvd_: Sphery: that is the HD OTA source
[23:21:21] sphery: it's really not... You don't have to do it that way--you could use input priorities--but if you do you /really/ need to read /and/ understand http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html#ss12.6 to see what affect it will have on the scheduler
[23:21:56] gbee: sphery: well then it's stupid, mythtv sucks
[23:22:28] iamlindoro: It'd be okay so long as the next release has XBMC as a frontend
[23:22:30] sphery: gbee: ^^^ not stupid / 99.9999% of users want the most-preferred input defined first / if you use priorities you can miss recordings that you wouldn't miss if you had the most-preferred input defined first
[23:23:01] alexvd_: btw i read the comments by that guy who posts about the memory leak and don't understand why he just wont run valgrind himself
[23:23:22] sphery: but most people who use input priorities don't understand what happens when you use them and then say mythtv sucks when they miss a recording (that they wouldn't have missed if they had defined their most-preferred inputs first and /not/ used input priorities)
[23:23:26] iamlindoro: because he's a jackass
[23:24:09] sphery: iamlindoro: yeah, I'm sure he thinks he's the one that caused it to get fixed
[23:24:36] gbee: sphery: adding the cards in order of the preference is a silly requirement, if input priorities don't or can't do what is required, then you should be able to re-sort the card order in the UI
[23:24:51] ** iamlindoro wonders if he can get the dialog boxes done tonight... **
[23:26:11] gbee: in the case of things like DVB-S, deleting/re-adding cards is a PITA, you've got to go through diseqc setup etc all over again, set EIT preferences a second time and then redo the input connections
[23:26:45] sphery: gbee: I agree that it would be nice to be able to re-sort them. (But not so nice that I feel it's worth my time to write the patch.)
[23:27:28] sphery: gbee: to see why input priorities won't work (quick story--but there's more to it so people should really read all of 12.6) see http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html#ss12.6 and search for "Note the two different effects"
[23:28:59] gbee: sphery: heh, will do, but tomorrow, too tired to take it in tonight
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[23:31:42] sphery: gbee: oh, and add to the end of the sentance, "meaning that the postponed show may not be recorded if the network changes the schedule and doesn't air the later show."
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[23:34:18] sphery: iamlindoro: worth reading why I like TV less without commercials?
[23:34:42] iamlindoro: I couldn't tell you, My internal commflag kicked in and I didn't read it
[23:35:05] sphery: lol
[23:35:15] ** gbee runs with "record higher priority recordings in later timeslots to avoid conflicts" **
[23:35:31] wagnerrp: im at a bit of an impasse
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[23:35:50] iamlindoro: HAHAHA, my first attempt at a dialog box is FAIL
[23:36:43] gbee: always some idiot who'd happily waste their time being assaulted with the propaganda of the commercial sector
[23:37:31] ** sphery wonders what wagnerrp is doing to the tail end of a devil **
[23:37:35] wagnerrp: i have an HD but little used tv, an SD but heavily used tv, and two computers, one each with and without 8000 series cards
[23:38:08] wagnerrp: do i want the fast computer, with vdpau, on the sdtv, able to play back all of my content on the primary tv
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[23:38:40] wagnerrp: or do i move it to the infrequently used hdtv, rather limiting the usefulness of mythtv on the sdtv
[23:38:54] gbee: or swap the TVs?
[23:38:57] wagnerrp: or do i just cough up the $50 and buy a new PCI card
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[23:39:36] wagnerrp: ill try to get xvmc working for now... decide later....
[23:39:51] gbee: eww xvmc
[23:40:04] wagnerrp: yeah, well ewww P4 1.8GHz
[23:40:14] wagnerrp: its an all around POS
[23:41:18] sphery: iamlindoro: I have to say, don't the authors of that study realize that the same expensive "hardware and/or software that lets them skip the commercials" allows people to pause whenever they want?
[23:41:40] iamlindoro: sphery, It would be worth determining who funded said stufy
[23:41:42] iamlindoro: study
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[23:42:50] sphery: published in "Journal of Consumer Research", so...
[23:42:56] iamlindoro: gbee, In using the "darken" effect for popups (think you are aware I was planning to do the same, how are you handing the fact that a MythPopupbox is centered? Just liberal negative co-ordinate usage?
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[23:44:35] gbee: iamlindoro: the popup box doesn't have to be centered, you can assign it any x/y and width/height coordinates that you want, to make it appear than the actual popup is centered you can just give them coordinates which put them in the centre of the screen
[23:44:39] wagnerrp: pity theres no way to prevent certain frontends from accessing certain content
[23:45:01] wagnerrp: i guess i could add it in hackishly using the parental controls
[23:45:13] gbee: and no, sorry I wasn't aware you were planning to do the same, I recall you wondering if it were possible and I explained how it might be done
[23:45:14] wagnerrp: of course the opposite side of that argument is 'upgrade your damn hardware'
[23:45:26] iamlindoro: gbee, So is the default's -1,-1 just a hardcoded cue to center?
[23:45:37] gbee: correct
[23:45:43] iamlindoro: ahh, good to know, thanks
[23:45:46] alexvd_: sphery: I wussed out and used input priorities for tonight. I will go back redefine the priorities in teh backend when its not recording. I have 3 OTA cards so I dont think i will miss the recordings :)
[23:46:23] sphery: alexvd_: either way works, but don't blame Myth if you miss something this way :)
[23:46:24] gbee: could be positioned anywhere, with any size and shape ... the menu could take the form of a banner with horizontal menu running the width of the screen, for example
[23:47:08] alexvd_: sphery: I will fix it the proper way.. tomorrow. I may just go crazy and upgrade to the latest release
[23:48:01] gbee: iamlindoro: hope you don't think I nicked your idea? :) I actually took the idea from mythvideo or mythgallery, can't remember which, where something similar had been done with the old UI
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[23:48:24] iamlindoro: gbee, Naw, I think there is bound to be some similar ideas, don't think that at all
[23:49:00] alexvd_: sphery: btw thanks for being a dev and contributing to mythtv. you guys all rock!
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[23:49:32] sphery: I'm not a real dev... give gbee the thanks--he's doing a /lot/ of dev
[23:50:13] gbee: sorry sphery, I'm out of cash
[23:50:43] sphery: :)
[23:50:53] gbee: sphery is a real dev, he contributes enough time and patches to be considered as such
[23:51:32] sphery: Guess you really want some cash... The check's in the mail.
[23:52:20] gbee: heh
[23:52:53] alexvd_: sorry i dont know all you nicks on irc but I do look at the tickets and forums all the time and I know you contribute so thanks....
[23:53:43] gbee: three cheers for Sphery, hip hip ...
[23:54:24] gbee: well sod you lot then ;)
[23:54:43] jduggan: hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooray
[23:54:59] sphery: lol
[23:59:16] lwizardl: anyone here use a video distribution system with mythtv

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