MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-04 03:34:53 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
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  error line:  120
Friday, December 19th, 2008, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:09] clever: my latest boot problems are related to missing modules
[00:00:33] clever: i hacked a network boot together by having a local copy of /boot/
[00:00:34] jams: the error codes suggest i need to perform a flash from usb, but the documented procedure isn't taking
[00:00:34] clever: but apt automaticaly uninstalled the old kernel
[00:00:44] clever: so i lost access to the bttv, sound, and ide
[00:00:50] clever: and couldnt upgrade /boot/
[00:02:08] CaptObviousman: so the backend's been doing well all day
[00:02:13] CaptObviousman: as long as I stay off that channel it works
[00:02:34] ** CaptObviousman would kinda like ot know why it does that **
[00:03:06] clever: bbl
[00:04:10] dustybin: clever: have you heard of ettercap?
[00:04:23] clever: yes
[00:05:04] fuxxy: what does LAM stand for "LAM lock"
[00:05:26] fuxxy: I'm getting partial LA_ lock (I'm assuming M is for multiplex?)
[00:06:21] zzip66 (zzip66!n=no@66-168-16-154.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:06:30] zzip66: hello
[00:06:46] janneg: no, program Map table which contains the pids of the indivial audio and video streams of a channel
[00:08:06] Tomasu (Tomasu!n=moose@S010600016cb89986.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:08:12] fuxxy: hmm.
[00:08:47] CaptObviousman: commflagging = the se
[00:08:48] CaptObviousman: sex*
[00:09:10] fuxxy: okay, I tried mplexid's from 1 thru 13, and none work.
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[00:10:05] fuxxy: I get a partial LAM_ lock with mplexid 11
[00:10:13] fuxxy: but no video
[00:10:57] kormoc: CaptObviousman, watch the language, family friendly channel, etc, yadda, yadda, yadda.
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[00:12:38] CaptObviousman: wut?
[00:12:56] CaptObviousman: you're telling me we're not allowed to say the word sex?
[00:13:23] kormoc: it adds no value to the idea and certain people can find it offensive in that way
[00:13:35] CaptObviousman: that's flatly absurd
[00:13:35] kormoc: we do try to be as non-abrasive as we can
[00:13:39] ** kormoc shrugs **
[00:14:07] kormoc: it makes no sense even used in that context
[00:14:17] fuxxy: so how do I figure out what mplexid a particular channel uses
[00:14:25] fuxxy: other than trial-and-error
[00:14:36] kormoc: there's a mplexid in the channel table
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[00:14:46] dustybin: CaptObviousman: i got told of for using the 'h' word :P
[00:14:50] dustybin: *off
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[00:16:22] iamlindoro: Sheesh, from the way this HD-PVR comes apart you'd think they didn't intend for people to take them to pieces
[00:16:52] fuxxy: kormoc, that's the field I"m currently trying to set :)
[00:17:12] kormoc: Ahh
[00:17:20] janneg: fuxxy: you shouldn't set it manually
[00:17:21] ** kormoc peers at the folks who use dvb **
[00:17:42] fuxxy: janneg, I wouldnt need to if mythtv actually found the channels
[00:17:52] dustybin: can mythtv view ITV HD yet?
[00:18:04] dustybin: i cannot find a ITV HD guide anywhere, how odd
[00:18:23] fuxxy: janneg, I'm having to manually add channels to mythtv that my hdhomerun scan finds, but mythtv's scan doesnt.
[00:18:30] iamlindoro: dustybin, As I understand it, ITV Hd doesn't even advertise when they'll be on the air in HD
[00:18:38] dustybin: bloody heck
[00:18:45] dustybin: *language
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[00:19:27] janneg: dustybin: afaik ITV HD uses mheg to advertise it on the SD channel
[00:20:08] janneg: i.e. a menu ask watch in HD on the STB
[00:21:07] iamlindoro: Victory, the HD-PVR board is mine
[00:21:13] janneg: fuxxy: are you sure you have set the serviceid in the channel table correctly?
[00:21:39] fuxxy: I just set it, let me double check
[00:22:16] fuxxy: serviceid is 2, hdhomerun says serviceid should be...
[00:22:57] janneg: the hdhomerun reports a service id?
[00:23:11] fuxxy: sortof
[00:23:15] janneg: if it reports a program number use that
[00:23:34] fuxxy: hdhomerun reports serviceid as "ProgramNumber"
[00:23:41] fuxxy: and it's actually supposed to be 1
[00:23:58] fuxxy: but 2 on the same freqid is the weather ondemand
[00:24:02] fuxxy: so it should still tune.
[00:24:32] janneg: fuxxy: ServiceID is the DVB term, it's equivalent to program number though
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[00:27:18] fuxxy: I'm not sure if atscsrcid/atsc_major_chan/atsc_minor_chan should be set, they aren't set on the digital channels that mythtv found.
[00:27:49] fuxxy: the only things that I see pertinant are freqid, mplexid, serviceid
[00:28:02] fuxxy: pertinant to actually tuning the channel, that is.
[00:28:34] janneg: fuxxy: depends whether the channels use ATSC signaling. tuning will work regardless
[00:30:11] fuxxy: grrrr..
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[00:30:22] fuxxy: Theoretically how high do mplexid's actually go?
[00:31:29] janneg: fuxxy: mplexid in channel is just the link to the dtv_multiplex table
[00:31:36] fuxxy: ooooOOoo
[00:31:48] fuxxy: I havent messed with dtv_multiplex table
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[00:33:36] fuxxy: hmm.
[00:33:50] fuxxy: freqid "21" matches my channel frequency
[00:33:53] fuxxy: let me try it and see
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[00:35:19] adam_home: hi! can i ask a tech question here?
[00:35:26] fuxxy: hey, it worked! I'm learning!
[00:35:27] fuxxy: :)
[00:36:20] kormoc: adam_home, didn't you just ask a question?
[00:36:47] iamlindoro: Also depends entirely on which question you ask
[00:36:50] adam_home: just making sure i'm in the right channel before speaking :)
[00:37:08] adam_home: i have a problem that just started. trying to change up/down channels.
[00:37:25] adam_home: it's slow to show the osd as i go up/down.
[00:37:47] adam_home: this happened once before, a long time ago, and i can't remember how i fixed it.
[00:38:02] fuxxy: could be a few things, off the top of my head.
[00:38:04] adam_home: it might be db problems, but not sure.
[00:38:30] adam_home: everything was fine for a looong time. i'm still on v 0.20
[00:38:36] fuxxy: adam_home, does the OSD stutter as it moves?
[00:39:09] adam_home: well' with xvmc for playback, it does stutter sometimes, but that's nothing new
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[00:39:23] adam_home: i tried disabling xvmc, but not joy
[00:39:47] adam_home: my machine lost power a few times in the last week, and something might have gotten borked in the db.
[00:40:15] adam_home: i was able to dump/restore the db, and it seems sane.
[00:40:40] adam_home: program guide is responsive, it's just when doing chan up/down in live tv that funky.
[00:42:05] adam_home: any ideas?
[00:43:16] adam_home: is there a simple way to rule out the db as the problem?
[00:43:31] fuxxy: adam_home, you may consider running 'top' while messing with the OSD.
[00:44:08] fuxxy: and buy a UPS, dude. No telling what can happen when the box isn't properly shut down.
[00:44:59] adam_home: good advice on the ups!
[00:45:24] adam_home: anyway... top shows that the backend and frontend are both busy when i have th e prob
[00:45:24] fuxxy: adam_home, I'm seriously considering running diskless frontends so i only need one UPS.
[00:45:36] fuxxy: adam_home, CPU saturated?
[00:45:40] adam_home: right
[00:45:48] fuxxy: which one's using the most CPU?
[00:45:53] fuxxy: (should be the frontend)
[00:45:56] adam_home: each about 40%
[00:46:11] fuxxy: hmm, that seems awfully high for the backend, but I'm no expert.
[00:46:35] fuxxy: log into mythweb and have it check your database.
[00:46:39] adam_home: i think so too. could well be something in the db chatter as it does its lookups.
[00:47:05] adam_home: does that feature exist in 0.20?
[00:47:11] adam_home: never saw it.
[00:47:16] adam_home: looking now.
[00:48:16] adam_home: where in mythweb is the check db function?
[00:50:03] kormoc: that's a 0.21+ feature I believe
[00:50:10] adam_home: ok.
[00:50:42] adam_home: can you tell me which tables are the most likely culprits for a problem like this?
[00:50:54] kormoc: I wouldn't imagine it as a db problem
[00:51:06] kormoc: watching the frontend logs would be a better indication imho
[00:51:45] kormoc: but running the optimizedb contrib script should do what mythweb's db module does
[00:52:21] adam_home: ok. i'll turn on some verbosity in the fe, and look for the optimize db script.
[00:52:45] adam_home: this database is probably 4 years old, so there certainly could be some cruft.
[00:53:02] adam_home: the mysql checkers all seem happy.
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[01:04:05] test1: HI All >>>> convert NUV to AVI ? an easy tool to install ? who can help me please ? config : OpenSuse11 + KDE4
[01:04:31] test1: easier than nuvexport .. its only 1 file
[01:05:49] kormoc: you can use mythtranscode to dump it out in raw format and pipe it into mencoder/ffmpeg/etc
[01:06:01] kormoc: which is what nuvexport is a nice frontend for doing
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[01:12:36] clever: 18 21:12:17 <clever> do you need a 200 page explanation on how to use a text editor?
[01:12:39] clever: 18 21:12:29 <iSoviet> yes
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[01:12:48] clever: ok, i give up, this idiot is hopeless
[01:13:21] clever: kormoc: your glad im not this dumb, or i would have been kicked from here months ago
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[01:16:51] test1: kormoc: ok so u recommand to install nuvexport ..?
[01:16:59] kormoc: yes
[01:17:13] test1: oki
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[01:18:24] test1: is nuv2avi of nuv tools working with suse? sm1 know?
[01:18:32] test1: (one click ;)
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[01:22:09] test1: ty kormoc .. i'll try nuvexport
[01:22:13] test1: bie
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[01:23:43] adam_home: no luck here, but i'm now convinced that it's not db related.
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[01:26:27] iamlindoro: Woo hoo! HD-PVR successfully powered internall off the PSU
[01:28:25] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: So, what did you end up doing, buying one or making one?
[01:28:29] iamlindoro: made it
[01:28:32] iamlindoro: too impatient
[01:29:32] iamlindoro: Have the other cables on order, though
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[01:29:59] iamlindoro: Will probably drill holes through PCI placeholders to make one input bracked and out output/passthrough bracket
[01:30:05] iamlindoro: er bracket
[01:30:51] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: Yep.  ;-) Makes sense... as long as you don't need all your slots!
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[01:33:03] iamlindoro: Thanks to monoprice insanely fast shipping, The other cabling is already on the way so Hopefully should have this done by christmas
[01:33:16] iamlindoro: Will probably mount the HD-PVR itself internally this weekend
[01:33:26] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: Nice... ;-)
[01:33:38] iamlindoro: Thinking I'll drill four posts on the wall of the case that opens and mount it there
[01:33:54] ** J-e-f-f-A could mount about half a dozen HD-PVR's in his case... ;-) **
[01:34:08] fuxxy: iamlindoro, I should be getting my cables from monoprice tomorrow – extremly awesome website
[01:34:42] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A, I'm doing this one in the upstairs frontend for effect, ie the "whole STB experience." Could fit a tone downstairs, but this will give a neater look
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[01:34:48] iamlindoro: s/tone/ton/
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[01:35:39] J-e-f-f-A: Wow, an HD-PVR on a frontend? Is it also a slave backend then?
[01:35:55] iamlindoro: Will be
[01:36:26] J-e-f-f-A: Nice. ;-)
[01:36:52] fuxxy: J-e-f-f-A, http://s155.photobucket.com/albums/s310/fuxxo . . . uter%20case/
[01:41:16] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: Ah, about the same space as my rocketfish Monolyth... only side-by-side... ;-)
[01:42:05] fuxxy: J-e-f-f-A, I just wish I had bigger drives to go in it. It's a well-built case.
[01:42:17] adam_home: aha, it *is* something in the db causing my slow channel up/down problems. i found a backup of mysql/mythconverg and the old one works fine. now to narrow it down.
[01:42:19] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: and it needs a good cleaning in those pics.  ;-)
[01:42:31] fuxxy: J-e-f-f-A, I've rebuilt it since then :)
[01:42:40] clever: iamlindoro: how are you routing the USB lines for the hd-pvr?
[01:42:49] iamlindoro: clever, B connecter to internal header
[01:42:54] clever: ahh
[01:43:04] iamlindoro: So all power/data connections are internal
[01:43:05] clever: one of my pci usb cards has a plain usb plug on the inside of the case
[01:43:41] clever: so all you have to do is route the signal lines out
[01:43:42] iamlindoro: and I'll use short (1 foot) lengths of component and optical to handmade PCI brackets
[01:44:17] iamlindoro: so one bracket will be inputs, and one will be outputs
[01:44:52] clever: something that would be more interesting is getting a small frontend(like a mac mini or something) inside a tv
[01:45:04] clever: theres plenty of dead space in my CRT tv
[01:45:28] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: Here's an info page for my monster case... ;-)
[01:45:29] clever: the only problem would be rf noise and psysicaly fiting/mounting it
[01:45:41] iamlindoro: Well I'm glad we've narrowed down what would be more interesting... to you
[01:45:43] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: Oops, helps if I paste the urlhttp://www.rocketfishproducts.com/pc-93-3- . . . e-black.aspx
[01:46:06] clever: if the entire frontend is internal to the tv, then you would have 2 cords and 1 box
[01:46:10] clever: or with wifi, a single core
[01:46:40] fuxxy: J-e-f-f-A, yeah, thats pretty freakin' huge
[01:47:07] iamlindoro: clever, they call those "iMacs"
[01:47:30] clever: those dont have as big of a screen
[01:47:45] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: I've got 2 5-bay hot-swap Sata cages in the 6 5.25 bays... no room left for the DVD-R... ;-)
[01:47:52] iamlindoro: But I guarantee their resolution in many times anything in your house
[01:48:11] clever: you probly got me there:P
[01:49:44] fuxxy: It appears gentoo doesn't have an ebuild for myth_apple_trailers
[01:50:01] iamlindoro: what's to build? It's little more than a perl script
[01:50:57] fuxxy: I wouldn't know where to get it if it's not in portage
[01:51:27] iamlindoro: gentoo probably also wants nothing to do with overt copyright infringement
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[01:52:19] fuxxy: iamlindoro, but that's only if you download the trailers, not just stream them.. Correct?
[01:52:46] iamlindoro: depends on how it works-- AFAIK it scrapes the site which is a violation of the TOS
[01:52:53] iamlindoro: (versus working through the RSS feed)
[01:53:32] fuxxy: Do you know of a revision that uses RSS?
[01:53:55] iamlindoro: there is none
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[01:59:29] wagnerrp: whoops!
[01:59:45] wagnerrp: mythweb has been acting flaky ever since moving over to trunk
[01:59:46] J-e-f-f-A: fuxxy: More pics to show the size, etc... ;-) http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/r200903 . . . -Li-special-
[02:00:17] wagnerrp: theres nothing wrong with mythweb, i had just forgotten to switch it over to the new database (still running off the -fixes database)
[02:00:35] kormoc: whee!
[02:00:49] kormoc: You know, I was attempting to trace that one issue you reported for days without luck
[02:00:53] iamlindoro: J-e-f-f-A's showing off the "size of his case" again
[02:00:55] wagnerrp: yeah, hope you didnt spend too much time looking through that when i was complaining last week
[02:01:01] wagnerrp: sorry
[02:01:04] kormoc: np :P
[02:02:02] wagnerrp: i couldnt understand why there were programs scheduled to record, but no data associated with them
[02:02:05] wagnerrp: it finally clicked
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[02:03:13] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: sorry... ;-)
[02:03:33] iamlindoro: I really want these cables to get here, I'm impatient to do this project
[02:03:58] wagnerrp: aww... that case looks so tiny
[02:04:41] GreyFoxx: What project ?
[02:04:51] fuxxy: iamlindoro, I'm no expert by far, but this error message appears as if myth_apple_trailers is using rss
[02:05:07] fuxxy: Warning: file(http://images.apple.com/trailers/rss/newtrailers.rss): failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found
[02:05:19] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro: I put a frontend in the living room, and my wife's begun to schedule programs, so now I've got to setup my 3rd Dish tuner again... it's a Dish 501PVR (UHF), so will be a little tricky...
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[02:05:25] wagnerrp: is that the script that parses the apple page into an xml list?
[02:05:37] fuxxy: wagnerrp, yeah.
[02:05:53] iamlindoro: GreyFoxx, Mounting the HD-PVR internally-- jsut built and tested the MOLEX-to-external power cable and have the USB-to-internal header and various other cables on the way
[02:06:16] wagnerrp: seems the link has changed from the old copy i have
[02:06:17] iamlindoro: GreyFoxx, Will build two custom PCI brackets, one input and one output
[02:07:15] wagnerrp: is there any real need for output? or do the components take up the size of two slots anyway?
[02:07:33] iamlindoro: wagnerrp, Passthrough, might want it eventually so might as well build it in now while I'm at it
[02:07:37] ** J-e-f-f-A wonders why he saved an 8x DVD-Rom drive... Trash time I think... **
[02:07:56] GreyFoxx: What re you mounting inside of ?
[02:08:13] GreyFoxx: insideof your PC case ?\
[02:08:14] iamlindoro: GreyFoxx, Micro ATX Case w/ existing Frontend/SBE
[02:08:20] GreyFoxx: ahh
[02:08:30] GreyFoxx: taking the board out of the existing shell ?
[02:08:35] iamlindoro: Already done, yeah
[02:08:50] GreyFoxx: cool
[02:08:57] wagnerrp: J-e-f-f-A: does that card duct actually work? my P180 has one but it buts up against full height cards
[02:09:00] iamlindoro: has four screw posts that will make for good mounting, probably on the removable side panel
[02:09:14] wagnerrp: they ended up just scrapping it after the first batch
[02:10:05] J-e-f-f-A: wagnerrp: yep. It's about... 1" above the cards...
[02:10:25] wagnerrp: i wonder if its actually wider than mine
[02:10:54] J-e-f-f-A: There's a full 1" on each side of the 5.25" bays...
[02:11:37] wagnerrp: ive probably got half that... theres the extra space
[02:12:58] J-e-f-f-A: ... Humm... thinking about setting up the 3rd tuner again reminded me of the occasional 'scratchy' audio on my 2nd PVR-500 tuner... Humm....
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[02:18:19] sutula: There's a setting on mythtv-setup having to do with the size of the buffer used while recording...does anyone here have the default value?
[02:18:30] fuxxy: grrr... where do I need to put this stinking xml file for the frontend to use it as a menu
[02:18:54] ** sutula changed his setting and (apparently) it's too big now...he wants to put it back to default **
[02:18:59] fuxxy: /home/mythtv/appletrailer.xml
[02:20:45] wagnerrp: fuxxy: wherever you want
[02:21:09] wagnerrp: the instructions for using said script explain how to alter the menu trees to read in that xml file
[02:21:41] fuxxy: wagnerrp, I edited /usr/share/mythtv/info_menu.xml to include that appletrailer.xml file, the instructions didn't reference a path in info_menu.xml, only the filename.
[02:22:22] fuxxy: we put the file in user mythtv's home directory, then populated it, and all I get in the frontend is a blue screen after selecting the new myth_apple_trailers option
[02:22:49] wagnerrp: "as root, 'sudo ln -s /home/mythtv/appletrailer.xml /usr/share/mythtv/appletrailer.xml'"
[02:23:19] wagnerrp: straight off the wiki
[02:23:37] wagnerrp: so you can put the xml file anywhere you want, so long as mythtv can read it from /usr/share/mythtv
[02:24:11] adam_home: hmm, my chan up/down problem (slow response, high cpu usage) goes away after i do 'delete from program;' Then, as mythfilldatabase runs, things remain until it gets to the end of the job.
[02:24:46] fuxxy: wagnerrp, got it.
[02:27:51] clever: adam_home: that sounds allmost identical to mythfilldatabase --refresh-all
[02:28:42] ** sutula finds the answer to his question (HD Ringbuffer size default value) in the user manual :) ...sorry for asking here **
[02:28:53] adam_home: clever, right
[02:29:07] adam_home: i had already tried that with no luck.
[02:29:17] wagnerrp: sutula: that section in the manual is outdated
[02:29:23] clever: adam_home: about the only difference, is that your also whiping the whole table, so its like running the optimize script also
[02:29:28] wagnerrp: there is no ringbuffer used anymore
[02:29:36] adam_home: clever: yeah.
[02:29:41] sutula: wagnerrp: It appears that I was changing the wrong value anyway after reading the description
[02:29:42] wagnerrp: recording (and livetv) are both done directly on the hard drive
[02:30:28] sutula: wagnerrp: I wonder what's up...maybe a bug in a library or my kernel...it was working flawlessly until I updated a week ago (tracking Debian Lenny)
[02:30:52] adam_home: clever: i tried the chan up/down while it was refilling an empty table. everything seemed fine until it got the the part where it does 'Marking generic episodes' and other stuff like that.
[02:31:40] adam_home: it looks like all the indexes on that table are ok.
[02:31:42] sutula: I was able to record 4 channels of normal broadcast with minimal load before, now any more than two produces kernel messages about lost data and skips in the recordings
[02:31:52] sutula: This using PVR-500's
[02:32:08] wagnerrp: hard drive full/fragmented?
[02:32:29] Dagmar: Make sure your disks are using UDMA and that you didn't somehow manage to default to the non-enhanced generic IDE chipset driver
[02:32:42] sutula: wagnerrp: That could be...I'll try there
[02:32:43] wagnerrp: either you have no spare memory, or a very heavily fragmented for that to be the cause
[02:33:10] wagnerrp: the linux disk cache should take care of most of that, assuming you have async write on your storage partition
[02:33:27] sutula: Actually, the recording drive is over nfs, so could be any number of things :)
[02:33:58] dustybin: clever: does this ring any bells: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2209/220875566 . . . 8dd3.jpg?v=0
[02:34:27] clever: dustybin: my garage looks a little like that
[02:34:28] wagnerrp: well dd several test files to the recordings share, see what performance you get
[02:34:49] wagnerrp: anything more than 1MB/s/stream is sufficient for anything the PVRs will dish out
[02:35:11] adam_home: sutula: nfs writes are syncronous by default, so you may be maxing out the disk in terms of IOPS
[02:35:14] wagnerrp: sensibly anyway, i think they can go to 12mbps if for some reason you want them to
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[02:39:21] wagnerrp: i should have gotten a 1GB chip for my firewall...
[02:39:38] Dagmar: 1Gb RAM for a firewall?
[02:39:43] Dagmar: Seriously?
[02:39:45] wagnerrp: CF card
[02:39:50] Dagmar: That's a wee bit overkill
[02:39:52] Dagmar: Oh
[02:40:03] wagnerrp: 512MB is a bit cramped
[02:40:07] sutula: adam_home: The fact that it was working flawlessly before is making me think that what changed is probably the disk being more fragmented
[02:40:27] Dagmar: sutula: We'd be talking REALLY fragmented
[02:40:51] Dagmar: Not the sort of fragmented that would happen overnight
[02:40:51] sutula: I've gotten the disk up to 90+% several times now, and have copied stuff off of it to bring the size back down into the 70–80%
[02:41:06] wagnerrp: as in a standard 2GB recording would have a hundred thousand fragments
[02:41:18] ** sutula notes said disk is a ReadyNAS, not the fastest thing anyway **
[02:41:36] Dagmar: did you turn on some christmas lights near your ethernet cables?
[02:41:49] sutula: Actually, yes  :(
[02:41:52] Dagmar: haha
[02:41:53] adam_home: great question!
[02:41:57] ** sutula better check that as well **
[02:42:07] Dagmar: Here's a hint for you
[02:42:08] Dagmar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIA-568B
[02:42:22] ** sutula appreciates all the great ideas **
[02:42:28] Dagmar: You can get away with hanging christmas lights on the same hooks as your ethernet cables, *if* you use the right pinout
[02:42:47] Dagmar: If you just pinned them straght 1–8 then electrical interference will slaughter throughput
[02:42:59] Dagmar: I've been there
[02:43:10] ** sutula thinks he used -A when he wired it a few years back **
[02:43:12] adam_home: yeah, but how do i shield it from my tesla coil?
[02:43:21] Dagmar: Tree goes on, Duke Nuke'Em deathmatch in the house falls over and dies.
[02:43:27] Dagmar: Tree goes off, game works again.  :)
[02:43:48] sutula: Actually, I saw trouble during the day today with the lights off, but good idea
[02:43:58] Dagmar: sutula: You can do either A or B, they're just color differences.
[02:44:25] adam_home: sutula: anything new on the network?
[02:44:59] wagnerrp: depending on your equipment, you may need both A and B
[02:44:59] ** sutula will try this week's kernel first, then will look into using a local disk instead of the ReadyNAS, copying the recordings to the ReadyNAS later on **
[02:45:11] sutula: Thanks everyone
[02:45:53] Dagmar: Hint: A on one end and B on the other makes a crossover cable.
[02:46:01] adam_home: so, what is mythfilldatabase doing at the end of its run that makes my chan up/down slow to a crawl?
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[02:46:20] Dagmar: adam_home: Probably kicking the scheduler into rechecking everything
[02:46:33] adam_home: it's not that.
[02:46:42] adam_home: scheduler runs in short time.
[02:47:02] Dagmar: Then use top to see what's gobbling your CPU
[02:47:15] dustybin: I hardly ever go into the 'Manage Recordings' menu on my frontend, time to have a look
[02:47:20] adam_home: been there. backend and frontend both get real busy.
[02:47:42] adam_home: i suspected the db and copied in a backup i had. then it was fine.
[02:48:04] Dagmar: So mysql doing a whole ton of lookups
[02:48:10] ** J-e-f-f-A cheers... His Dish 501 PVR has an ir receiver, and is enabled if the UHF receiver is simply un-plugged....  ;-) Time to setup lirc now... **
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[02:48:41] adam_home: Dagmar: yeah, that's the idea, but the queries in the logs seem ok. they run fast manually.
[02:48:56] dustybin: the 'Program Finder' is pretty cool
[02:49:35] adam_home: mythfilldatabase can fill the whole program table (~31000 rows) and everything looks good until it does its final stuff. from then on, i get the problem.
[02:49:59] Dagmar: That's because at the end of things teh scheduler goes and reevaluates all the recording schedules, afaik
[02:50:22] Dagmar: ...cuz you woulnd' twant a last-minute schedule change for something airing tomorrow to get missed
[02:50:28] adam_home: Dagmar: i agree with that, but the log shows the scheduler finishing normally.
[02:50:52] Dagmar: Your CPU and RAM are going somewhere. I blame MySQL.
[02:50:52] dustybin: 'Search Lists' is handy indeed
[02:51:49] Dagmar: You're not really going to know until you take a hard look at what the system is doing *while* it's doing it.
[02:51:54] adam_home: Dagmar: all the tables check ok. i dumped/restored the whole thing, so the indexes should all be nice.
[02:52:23] adam_home: Dagmar: suggestions?
[02:52:35] Dagmar: To run top *while* the thing is doing the thing you dont' want it to do.
[02:53:03] Dagmar: \So far you seem to be eliminating every possible cause based on what you're seeing from logs.
[02:53:04] adam_home: i can see that the backend and frontend start chewing up a lot of cpu.
[02:53:14] Dagmar: ...which means you either don't have a problem or it's time to get more information.
[02:53:49] Dagmar: The backend is what makes channel changes happen, so if it's running like mad... welll...
[02:54:21] adam_home: Dagmar: there's definitely a problem. this system has been running fine for a long time.
[02:55:11] adam_home: something in the db is causing the fe/be or both to act funky now.
[02:55:54] Dagmar: It's MySQL. It's decided your RAM is deeee-licious.
[02:56:12] adam_home: nah, plenty of ram.
[02:56:15] Dagmar: ...or some update to the system has caused a config file to revert to some suboptimal state
[02:56:29] Dagmar: ...hence why I don't mess with my config when the thing works.
[02:56:32] adam_home: not that either.
[02:57:00] Dagmar: Like I said, you've nixed every other possible cause, so it's time to look more closely at the system while it's malfunctioning.
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[02:58:39] adam_home: Dagmar: please believe me. i didnt change a thing. as i mentioned earlier, the machine did go down hard a couple times this week, so i suspected corruption in the db. The mysql checkers say it's fine.
[03:00:09] adam_home: Dagmar: if you can recommend a good way for me to find out what the be/fe are doing i'm all ears.
[03:00:31] adam_home: strace seems a bit low-level at this stage though.
[03:00:37] clever: damnit
[03:00:45] clever: my frontend cant play any recordings that are recording
[03:01:23] Dagmar: `top`
[03:01:37] clever: 80# used
[03:01:55] clever: but that doesnt explain why its spamming the logs with recorder querys
[03:02:09] adam_home: Dagmar: what can top tell me that i don't already know?
[03:02:13] clever: 2008-12–18 23:00:31.951 RemoteEncoder::SendReceiveStringLis
[03:02:14] clever: t(): No response.
[03:02:28] clever: its doing that over&over and complaining about lossing the connection to the backend
[03:02:35] clever: but only for active recordings
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[03:11:15] fuxxy: Is there a way to transcode AAC audio to AC3 on the fly?
[03:11:44] wagnerrp: i believe you have to set up ALSA to transcode any raw audio to AC3 on the fly
[03:11:50] adam_home: Dagmar: thanks! you got me on the right track. somehow i ended up with a scheduled recording for "Paid programming" (~2500 events). even though the scheduler still runs quickly, it kills chan up/down.
[03:12:17] wagnerrp: so you just have mythtv decode it, and ALSA re-encode it
[03:12:32] dustybin: anybody here like french films? i watched this a while back and it was excellent: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365190/ i need to do some french film research
[03:13:01] adam_home: so... mystery solved. thanks clever, fuxxy, Dagmar
[03:14:28] Dagmar: Just be glad you weren't able to hear me over muttering "It's the bloody DB... It's the bloody DB..."
[03:14:37] Dagmar: ...among other colorful words.
[03:16:22] Dagmar: The re-evaluation of all the recording rules is about the only thing that it could have logically been
[03:17:02] adam_home: i didn't know if it had problems looking up logos, or what.
[03:17:44] adam_home: but why does it need to check the schedule just to browse up/down channels?
[03:17:49] Dagmar: It doesn't.
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[03:18:02] adam_home: then i still don't understand what the problem was.
[03:18:15] Dagmar: ..but if the thing is incredibly busy processing hundreds of database queries, it can't exactly get the information about the next channel right away
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[03:18:39] Dagmar: In your case, evidently thousands.
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[03:19:19] adam_home: Dagmar: why do you say it was busy processing so many queries?
[03:19:50] adam_home: -v database wasn't spewing anything major
[03:20:02] Dagmar: "<adam_home> Dagmar: thanks! you got me on the right track. somehow i ended up with a scheduled recording for "Paid programming" (~2500 events)."
[03:21:04] Dagmar: That would likely result in >10x the normal number of schedule lookups
[03:21:08] adam_home: sure, i understand why it would do tons of queries every time the scheduler runs. but the scheduler still completed in a couple seconds and even when it was done i had the problem.
[03:22:00] Dagmar: So enable logging of all queries *and their results* and look at what you get.
[03:22:02] wagnerrp: where is cacti picking up a dependency on python...
[03:26:40] Dagmar: Probably has a python script in it somewhere
[03:34:23] ** J-e-f-f-A cheers as he got the IR control of the Dish 501 working... ;-) **
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[03:38:15] dustybin: interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films
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[03:42:46] squish102: df -h
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[04:08:03] stoneymonster: ok, I've rebuilt my machine a bit and was trying to get lirc to work with two serial ports: one for receiver, one for ir blaster
[04:08:23] stoneymonster: that seems really hard, so screw the serial receiver... any recommendations for a usb based receiver that I might find at fry's or somesuch?
[04:08:39] stoneymonster: there seem to be a lot of these vista mce remotes, do those work?
[04:09:27] wagnerrp: the MCE remote seems to be highly recommended around here
[04:09:58] wagnerrp: the one thats about half the size of a credit card, and has two jacks for IR blasters in the back
[04:11:12] clever: wouldnt do me much good
[04:11:21] clever: my STB is in a closet a long ways from my frontend
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[04:11:40] wagnerrp: would still work to have a pair of blasters
[04:11:47] wagnerrp: with your bakcend
[04:11:52] [kP]: mythtv rocks, i'd just like to say
[04:12:06] clever: id need to steal dads STB and find a way to make the frame grabber work on the 400mhz
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[04:12:37] clever: the frame grabber would be my bigest problem
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[04:22:03] fuxxy: 2008-12–18 22:17:30.655 AFD Error: Could not open codec 0xa404c740, id(MPEG2VIDEO_XVMC) type(Video) aborting. reason -1
[04:22:47] wagnerrp: of course a $30 spree on ebay would fix that problem right up
[04:23:15] kormoc: he'd need to get a job before he could go on a spree
[04:23:31] fuxxy: Google doesn't know anything about that error, does anyone else know?
[04:23:47] kormoc: try turning off xvmc?
[04:23:59] fuxxy: kormoc, that makes it go from bad to worse.
[04:24:02] wagnerrp: what about all those people on IRC who revere him
[04:24:11] wagnerrp: theres got to be some money available in there
[04:24:30] fuxxy: the issue started when I increased decoding CPU's from 1 to 2
[04:24:34] kormoc: wagnerrp, nah, he's too selfless to do that!
[04:24:42] kormoc: fuxxy, so decrease them?
[04:24:54] fuxxy: On this p4 2.8Ghz Prescott.
[04:25:01] kormoc: the cpu decoding should only matter with software h264 decoding I believe
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[04:27:21] fuxxy: kormoc, makes sense. my laptop doesn't support xvmc, and I'm using ffmpeg decoding with 2 cpus (Core2Duo T8500) – works perfectly.
[04:27:49] jamesd: is decoding multithreaded?
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[04:28:06] kormoc: I believe that h264 with software encoding can be, aye
[04:28:15] kormoc: might be limited to -trunk tho
[04:28:29] wagnerrp: jamesd: its called 'slices', its one of the basic functions of the h264 format
[04:28:59] fuxxy: I know there's a CPU setting in playback profiles
[04:29:03] wagnerrp: the video domain is literally divided into independent parts that are compressed and decompressed separately
[04:29:20] wagnerrp: no other codecs currently have multithreaded support
[04:30:12] wagnerrp: of course h264 and vc1 are the only two that could really make use of such a thing
[04:30:32] wagnerrp: any dual core processor, besides maybe an Atom, should be able to handle HD mpeg2 and ASP just fine
[04:30:44] wagnerrp: single threaded
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[04:41:05] wagnerrp: having fun there RyeBrye?
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[04:42:00] RyeBrye: Sorry :) My computer was on the fritz because I'm debricking a router via the ethernet and eventhough it's set as a lower service order than my wireless – every time I tried to reconnect it to get the timing right for starting the TFTP it would screw with my routing table and disconnect / reconnect all my stuff
[04:42:13] RyeBrye: sorry about that :)
[04:42:30] wagnerrp: no need to apologize to me
[04:43:10] wagnerrp: merely commenting on your network instability
[04:45:29] davez0r_: anyone seen this message before? NVP: Couldn't find a matching decoder for: /storage/recordings/filename.mpg I recently upgraded to 0.21.20080304–1 and many but not all of my old recordings won't play and that's the error message.
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[04:54:08] ** J-e-f-f-A cheers that his 3rd Myth Dish tuner is working, but not that his PVR-500's 2nd tuner's audio is 'scratchy' about 25% of the time, and clears up with a channel change... ugh. **
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[05:04:24] RyeBrye: J-e-f-f-A: what kind of Dish? DVB-C or Dish Network?
[05:04:39] RyeBrye: errr DVB-S I suppose I mean
[05:04:47] iamlindoro: Dish network is DVB-S
[05:05:31] RyeBrye: right, but you have to do illegal stuff to use a DVB-S capture card directly, don't you?
[05:05:42] wagnerrp: in the US, yes
[05:05:50] iamlindoro: Yes, (and, for that matter, a regular DVB-S card won't work) but it *is* still DVB-S
[05:06:20] davez0r_: link me to this 'extralegal' stuff
[05:06:31] iamlindoro: davez0r_, Not welcome in this channel
[05:06:34] RyeBrye: I don't have links
[05:06:34] davez0r_: gah
[05:06:38] davez0r_: ok
[05:06:42] RyeBrye: And breaking the law is wrong
[05:06:49] davez0r_: but i live in ecudor
[05:06:52] davez0r_: ecuador
[05:07:08] wagnerrp: i was under the impression that most of those programs ran windows anyway
[05:07:26] iamlindoro: davez0r_, But you're *in* this channel
[05:07:30] iamlindoro: so it's not welcome
[05:08:15] davez0r_: so has no one this message before? NVP: Couldn't find a matching decoder for: /storage/recordings/filename.mpg I recently upgraded to 0.21.20080304–1 and many but not all of my old recordings won't play and that's the error message.
[05:10:09] davez0r_: i've googled around and found a few references, but none have solutions
[05:10:19] J-e-f-f-A: RyeBrye: Dish Network – 3 STB's...
[05:10:46] J-e-f-f-A: RyeBrye: S-Video/Analog audio -> PVR-500 and PVR-250.
[05:10:53] RyeBrye: J-e-f-f-A: Oh
[05:10:54] RyeBrye: ok
[05:11:01] RyeBrye: and IR blasters to control them?
[05:11:16] J-e-f-f-A: Yep.
[05:11:50] davez0r_ is now known as davez0r
[05:11:56] J-e-f-f-A: RyeBrye: since that's the only legal, and reliable way to get Dish into a Myth box.
[05:12:13] RyeBrye: Yep – just curious if there was another way
[05:13:03] davez0r: yeah i dumped my dish for OTA, and haven't missed it at all.
[05:13:11] wagnerrp: analog capture only, unless you want to shell out for a commercial headend license fee and equipment
[05:14:10] adam_home: davez0r: i seem to remember running into that a long time ago. probably after an upgrade. I never found a solution either, but mplayer will probably play the files.
[05:16:26] davez0r: adam_home: thanks for the reply. Yeah, its the strangest error- all of the high-def stuff plays fine, but a bunch of the older standard def recordings refuse to play and will crash mythfrontend if I try to play them
[05:17:49] davez0r: its almost like myth's decoder wants to read a header. some of the recordings have it, but many do not.
[05:20:21] kormoc: Didn't someone earlier have an issue with mythweb returning an error about file( no wrapper being found?
[05:21:07] adam_home: davez0r: yeah, something like that. I would expect stuff like that if you were trying to play a new recording with an old decoder, but i don't understand why a new decoder isn't backward compatible.
[05:21:57] adam_home: kormoc: this? [21:05] <fuxxy> Warning: file(http://images.apple.com/trailers/rss/newtrailers.rss): failed to open stream: no suitable wrapper could be found
[05:22:12] kormoc: Looks like it
[05:22:23] kormoc: although, that was a perl script I thought
[05:24:01] davez0r: whoa wtf... all my old recordings are playing now
[05:25:10] sphery: davez0r: Haven't been following, but it may be broken seektables. Run optimize_mythdb.pl, then http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Repairing_the_Seektable (use the mythtranscode approach for MPEG-2 and the mythcommflag approach for NUV). You only have to repair the seektable for the affected recordings (i.e. those that give you problems).
[05:25:36] sphery: btw, run optimize_mythdb.pl while the backend is running.
[05:26:01] wagnerrp: if you have mythweb installed, you can run it from within the settings pages
[05:26:04] davez0r: whoa interesting
[05:27:26] sphery: davez0r: if you do it from mythweb, make sure you do the /repair/ one--that's the important part, not so much the optimizing
[05:27:38] davez0r: ahh ok
[05:28:03] kormoc: and it may take a minute or two, depending on the status of things
[05:28:13] davez0r: u know- a bunch of my recordings that refused to play only an hour ago are now playing
[05:28:26] davez0r: i wonder if that script was auto-run
[05:28:41] kormoc: it's not
[05:28:44] sphery: Ubuntu sets it up to auto run, IIRC
[05:28:48] davez0r: hah!
[05:28:49] ** kormoc blinks **
[05:28:53] kormoc: that's a bad thing...
[05:28:57] davez0r: yeah, this is an ubuntu machine
[05:29:09] iamlindoro__: J-e-f-f-A: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mounting . . . R_Internally
[05:29:19] kormoc: I'm all for people setting up their own cron jobs that can kill data, but uhh... automatically, ugh...
[05:29:56] sphery: with *buntu, everything's magic--data loss and all :)
[05:30:09] davez0r: heh
[05:31:11] HowdyDoody: does VisionTek have any linux drivers for NTSC & QAM & HDTV play, Record/PLay Hardware acceleration [HD650] I ahave searched but cannot find list of supported hardware that mythtv can use ? Should I just return the product and seek something else ?
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[05:31:15] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro__: Impressive.  ;-) Especially your excellent documentation ability!  ;-) I almost never 'slow down' to take pictures while doing a project... ;-)
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[05:31:55] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro__: I'm often doing 're-creation' pictures for my documentation purposes...
[05:31:58] iamlindoro__: J-e-f-f-A: Would have liked to finish tonight, but have to wait on the other cables :)
[05:32:31] RyeBrye: iamlindoro: that's cool. I heard the HD-PVR ran hot, is that true?
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[05:32:56] wagnerrp: iamlindoro__: might be a good idea to photograph the spacers in place, before people bolt their brand new HDPVR to their case and fry it
[05:33:02] wagnerrp: people follow images, not directions
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[05:33:32] iamlindoro__: RyeBrye: In theory-- but it's been running for months in a closed box with no fans-- and now will be in a larger box *with* fans so I'm not concerned
[05:33:38] RyeBrye: I wonder if after seeing your hack Hauppauge will say "Hmm... Maybe we should just make a bracket-mounted version and save $ on the case"
[05:34:21] RyeBrye: it coudl still be USB... but that might be more trouble than it's worth for them
[05:35:31] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro__: How much was shipping on that USB B <-> Header cable?
[05:36:00] iamlindoro__: J-e-f-f-A: Couple bucks I think. $5ish?
[05:36:10] wagnerrp: more than the cable itself
[05:36:25] iamlindoro__: Cable is $10ish
[05:37:02] wagnerrp: do any of the IR parts work yet?
[05:37:09] iamlindoro__: No
[05:37:52] wagnerrp: just wondering if it would be worth it to desolder the receiver, and move it to the front of the case
[05:37:53] J-e-f-f-A: Humm... Well, it's way past my bed-time... Although I get to work from home tomorrow due to the snowstorm coming this way... this time tomorrow I'll have 12" of snow to clear...
[05:38:09] iamlindoro__: I already have IR, don't need the (very limited) IR from the HD-PVR
[05:38:23] wagnerrp: fair enough, too much work, not enough worth
[05:38:47] iamlindoro__: I guess if I was building it as a solution for someone else I might do so, though
[05:39:03] ** J-e-f-f-A waves "Goodnight!" ;-) ZZZzzz... **
[05:39:22] Lexridge: can I build a USB extension cable using cat5e cabling? If so, is my length still only limited to 15'?
[05:39:48] iamlindoro__: You can do so, and you'd get slightly longer runs because it's twisted
[05:39:48] wagnerrp: your length was never limited to 15'
[05:40:03] iamlindoro__: though how far it'll work is anyone's guess on a homemade cable
[05:40:11] Lexridge: I thought usb was limited to 15'
[05:40:13] wagnerrp: (spec is for 16')
[05:40:31] Lexridge: okay, ~15' ;)
[05:40:50] Lexridge: how are usb cables shielded?
[05:41:23] iamlindoro__: Just the cladding in most cases
[05:41:49] wagnerrp: the spec is set because of timeouts
[05:42:12] Lexridge: what spec?
[05:42:18] Lexridge: on shielding?
[05:42:29] wagnerrp: standard timeout is 1500ns, which equates to a 5m (16') cable
[05:43:19] wagnerrp: longer limit cables have internal hubs used as repeaters
[05:43:34] wagnerrp: its got nothing to do with signal loss, but rather protocol
[05:43:41] Lexridge: So I could use a usb hub every 16 feet or so.
[05:43:57] wagnerrp: correct, up to 5 hubs chained
[05:45:07] Lexridge: okay, that would get the distance I need easily. I had bought these kvm extenders that are usb, but apparently only the keyboard and mouse work through them. Expensive crap! I wanted to connect editing controllers through them.
[05:45:42] Lexridge: so now I need to extend the USB for the editing controllers, etc.
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[05:47:12] Lexridge: I'd assume the usb hubs need to be independently powered as well, correct?
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[05:47:25] wagnerrp: depends on the hub
[05:47:50] wagnerrp: hubs are usually powered so they can provide full 0.5A to all connected devices
[05:48:14] wagnerrp: but if its just acting as an in-line repeater, theres no need for additional power
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[05:50:48] Lexridge: okay, that solves all my forseeable issues. Thanks!
[05:51:17] wagnerrp: what are you doing such long distance?
[05:52:39] Lexridge: We have this VCI automation software, and the clients are 1RU rack mount computers mounted in our datacenter, and extended via kvm extenders. There also needs to be JLCooper editing controllers plugged into them as well. So I need to extend that.
[05:53:23] wagnerrp: oh, so the kvms are not really USB compliant
[05:53:35] Lexridge: The datacenter is right next to both production control and master control, so the runs would not be more than 30–40'
[05:53:36] wagnerrp: they can just handle usb attached PS2 keyboards and mice
[05:53:55] Lexridge: apparently so. :(
[05:54:26] Lexridge: My intention was to put a usb hub on the client end of the kvm. NOT!
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[05:54:54] Lexridge: A keyboard or mouse won't even work though a hub plugged into it.
[05:55:20] Lexridge: at almost $300 per unit, you'd think they should. :/
[05:55:24] wagnerrp: yeah, i paid quite a premium for a pair of KVMs i have that are actually USB compliant
[05:56:03] wagnerrp: the keyboard and mouse ports are actually usb ports, rather than dedicated keyboard and mouse ports
[05:56:55] Lexridge: what is your maximum extension length with that? These things are 300'
[05:57:19] wagnerrp: theyre swiches, not extenders
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[05:58:36] Lexridge: oh, okay
[05:59:19] wagnerrp: basically so i could have a keyboard and mouse with all sorts of buttons, rather than just a keyboard and mouse
[05:59:33] Lexridge: right!
[06:02:22] Lexridge: I wish I could get an eight port USB hub that could handle multiple machines. That would simplify quite a bit.
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[06:04:38] HorizonXP: iamlindoro? bsdfox_ told me to ask you about playing HD video content on an intel atom, and how possible it'd be
[06:05:06] wagnerrp: HorizonXP: what is the source of said HD content?
[06:05:13] wagnerrp: and what version of the intel atom?
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[06:05:28] HorizonXP: Atom 330, and hoping to pull HD content via network
[06:05:43] HorizonXP: so no encoding, just decoding
[06:05:43] wagnerrp: again... what is the source
[06:06:05] wagnerrp: the video didnt just magically form on your hard drive
[06:06:09] HorizonXP: oh
[06:06:16] HorizonXP: lol, recorded HDTV content
[06:06:31] HorizonXP: so 720p/1080i
[06:06:34] wagnerrp: so mpeg2 ATSC?
[06:06:41] HorizonXP: yes
[06:07:21] HorizonXP: tho i'm hoping to eventually start using h264 to encode
[06:07:35] mchou: HorizonXP: what? on an atom?
[06:07:48] wagnerrp: youre dual core, so youre in luck there
[06:07:53] HorizonXP: mchou: oh no way, encoding is done else where
[06:08:01] wagnerrp: but i wouldnt expect decoding performance more than ~6mbps
[06:08:07] wagnerrp: for h264
[06:08:16] HorizonXP: wagnerrp: hmm....
[06:08:17] wagnerrp: maybe 8 if you use CAVLC instead of CABAC
[06:08:22] davez0r: adam_home: Thanks
[06:08:22] davez0r: sphery: Thanks
[06:08:22] davez0r: kormoc: Thanks to you too I figuered out the problem
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[06:08:37] mchou: HorizonXP: even playback I'd have some serious concerns regarding atom. memory bandwidth might not be enough
[06:08:45] wagnerrp: but youll end up with the same quality video either way
[06:08:52] mchou: even if you use VDPAU
[06:09:01] mchou: HorizonXP: ^^^
[06:09:02] wagnerrp: for ATSC playback, youre probably about at your limits there too
[06:09:10] HorizonXP: well VDPAU requires an Nvidia/ATI card
[06:09:18] HorizonXP: i'd be sticking with teh onboard GMA950 from intel
[06:09:24] wagnerrp: and you can get a PCI video card
[06:09:35] HorizonXP: i can
[06:09:49] HorizonXP: but i'd only do that if absolutely necessary
[06:09:55] mchou: HorizonXP: you'll still be constrained by memory bandwidth
[06:10:00] HorizonXP: i wanna keep this box as small/cheap as possible
[06:10:09] HorizonXP: mchou: yeah I thought so
[06:10:10] mchou: forget it
[06:10:22] bsdfox_: HorizonXP: I think I'd probably look at the E5xxx series
[06:10:28] HorizonXP: Intel Atom 330 1.6GHz Dual Core – 7.18 GB/s
[06:10:28] bsdfox_: or even E7xxx
[06:10:33] mchou: you want a respectable box for playback of HD material
[06:10:39] wagnerrp: wait a month or so for the mini-itx core2/geforceM boards to come out
[06:10:50] wagnerrp: or wait until next year for the atom/geforceM boards
[06:11:17] davez0r: i saw a miniitx core2 up on newegg
[06:11:22] mchou: HorizonXP: being cheap on a frontend requires real experience :)
[06:11:33] davez0r: problem was finding a powersupply for it
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[06:12:00] wagnerrp: whats the form factor VIAs use? that one
[06:12:12] HorizonXP: http://www.pcworld.com/article/155566/nvidia_ . . . el_atom.html
[06:12:33] HorizonXP: looks like that's what I want
[06:12:43] HorizonXP: HDMI out, HD playback? yes please!
[06:12:47] wagnerrp: like i said, mid next year for that one
[06:13:36] HorizonXP: yeah, i can wait for something like that..
[06:13:43] mchou: HorizonXP: I wouldnt touch that with a 10 ft. pole until someone finds out how much heat the nvidia chip puts out
[06:14:09] mchou: cause that will be the power sucking part, not the CPU :)
[06:14:17] HorizonXP: agreed,
[06:14:43] HorizonXP: but i'm trying to build a small system that I can mount to the back of a 22 or 24-inch LCD screen
[06:14:43] wagnerrp: i doubt it would be considerably more than the P945 theyre shipping currently
[06:15:04] HorizonXP: wagnerrp: you're prolly right since they're talking about stickign it in netbooks
[06:15:24] wagnerrp: remember, the 945 chip is the one with the big heatsink
[06:15:33] wagnerrp: pulls 3x the power as the atom itself
[06:15:41] HorizonXP: anyway, i'm gonna get the parts required for it molded. so if I need to allow space for cooling, it COULD be allowed, within reason
[06:15:54] HorizonXP: whoa really?
[06:15:59] HorizonXP: i didn't know it drew that much power
[06:17:17] HorizonXP: According to nVidia, the thermals of an Ion-platform machine will be lower than those of a current Atom system, and the idle power will be comparable, while maintaining roughly the same battery life.
[06:17:23] wagnerrp: apparently the 9300M pulls about 13W
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[06:17:39] wagnerrp: so tack on an extra couple W for the rest of the chipset
[06:17:55] HorizonXP: so 15 or 16 W?
[06:18:05] wagnerrp: which is where the 945 is already
[06:18:13] HorizonXP: yeah
[06:18:35] HorizonXP: and for my purposes, that's totally fine. we're not talking netbook, we're talking AC-power
[06:19:11] wagnerrp: but... thats ~8mo away
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[06:20:17] HorizonXP: yeah
[06:20:34] HorizonXP: i'm thinkin of just getting the intel atom board i want now, develop for it and use it
[06:20:42] HorizonXP: then switch when the nvidia ion comes out
[06:21:55] kormoc: Hrm.... this object rewrite's getting big, +741 lines, – 2263 lines
[06:22:12] wagnerrp: sounds more like a delete
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[06:22:39] kormoc: well, more like house cleaning :)
[06:23:45] wagnerrp: HorizonXP: in the near term, you might want to look for these things starting to hit the market. http://minicomputerworld.com/mini-motherboard . . . -motherboard
[06:23:52] wagnerrp: i dont think any are available yet
[06:24:28] wagnerrp: but strap on a low power core2, and youre looking at something thats fairly small, <40W, and ~$200-$250
[06:24:59] kormoc: wagnerrp, 404
[06:25:24] wagnerrp: damned lack of copy-paste
[06:25:54] wagnerrp: http://minicomputerworld.com/mini-motherboard . . . -motherboard
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[06:26:38] Lexridge: Sweet!
[06:26:55] Lexridge: but still a bit too expensive.
[06:29:15] wagnerrp: well you can pick up an 8200 miniitx board, and an amd chip for considerably less
[06:29:27] wagnerrp: but no VC1 for you, for whatever worth that is
[06:31:37] Lexridge: I have no plans of buying anything like this anytime soon. I'd like to play, certainly, but not at that price. I have build several of the AMD Geoid (sp?) as routers, but would like to eventually enter bigitme into the Micro/MiniATX world.
[06:32:07] bsdfox_: geode
[06:32:12] Lexridge: that's it!
[06:33:06] wagnerrp: ive got one of those...
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[06:33:31] Lexridge: I'd like to eventually do this for my vehicle as well, with a touchscreen mounted to the dash. Maybe run RockBox or Amarok on it.
[06:33:57] Lexridge: that would be very cool :)
[06:34:06] bsdfox_: lol rockbox and amarok are so completely different
[06:34:24] Lexridge: they certainly are, but both are great programs.
[06:34:45] wagnerrp: never had much love for amarok
[06:34:56] wagnerrp: too big/slow for what it did
[06:35:12] Lexridge: I'm not attached to the hip to the databasing of amarok, but it what it does it does well. It is big!
[06:35:45] Lexridge: I hate the jack integration personally. Slow and delayed.
[06:35:55] wagnerrp: give me a linux port of winamp any day
[06:36:01] wagnerrp: the one AOL product im proud to use
[06:36:09] Lexridge: xmms pretty much fits the bill of winamp, imo.
[06:36:24] wagnerrp: xmms is winamp2
[06:36:26] bsdfox_: wagnerrp: audacious
[06:36:38] wagnerrp: audacious is just a fork of xmms isnt it?
[06:36:55] bsdfox_: yea
[06:37:01] Lexridge: i didn't know that.
[06:37:07] Lexridge: huh!
[06:37:09] wagnerrp: anyway, i mean wa5, thats two versions past
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[13:11:45] Finswimmer: hello, when trying to burn an 8GB video file to a DVD, mythTV uses SP to fit it on a 4GB DVD. but mythburn.py errors in: ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 137
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[13:15:02] mzb_d800: audacious (kde?) // bmp (?) // xmms (original ... being a "clone" of winamp)
[13:15:30] ** mzb_d800 slinks off back into the ether **
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[13:18:09] ** dustybin executes a r00t attack on mzb_d800 **
[13:18:32] ** mzb_d800 feels slightly violated **
[13:18:43] mzb_d800: (but not inconvenienced;)
[13:18:46] dustybin: haha i thought this was another channel, my efnet channel whoops
[13:19:30] mzb_d800: heh, yeah ... blame it on your eyes (or something) ;)))
[13:19:39] dustybin: :P
[13:19:43] mzb_d800: heh
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[13:20:31] mzb_d800: that sort of provocation might force me to get another beer ;)
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[13:20:40] ** mzb_d800 looks for any other excuses **
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[13:24:55] ** mzb_d800 != kde (btw) **
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[13:32:24] mzb_d800: no excuses found. Time for bed, I guess. Gnite all.
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[13:54:54] Finswimmer: anyone an idea why this occurs: ExpatError: not well-formed (invalid token): line 1, column 137 it seems te be an invalid xml file. but why and which?
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[14:08:38] Finswimmer: the problem with this XML file is, that there a "unreadable" characters in it.
[14:09:03] Finswimmer: Jos^Car such this one.
[14:09:40] Finswimmer: I do not know python. But shouldn't it be possible to remove thes character?
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[14:12:06] hashbang: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/154640
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[14:22:16] jackson__: Hmm, The Dark Knight blu-ray is encoded in VC-1?
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[15:06:04] iamlindoro__: jackson__: yeah
[15:06:50] iamlindoro__: jackson__: That aside, it's easily the best looking blu ray I've ever seen (although obviously that likely has more to do with the source being fantastic)
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[15:23:02] benklop_: anyone ever seen an XFS file system with a freagmentation factor of 99.79% ?
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[15:23:23] benklop_: i had xfs_fsr run all night and now its around 75%.
[15:23:42] benklop_: any ideas how long it will take to clear up?
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[15:32:01] GreyFoxx: ....
[15:32:10] GreyFoxx: if it took all night to do 25 %
[15:32:26] GreyFoxx: take "all night" * 3 and that\s abouthow long
[15:32:35] kkuno: *4
[15:32:37] kkuno: :P
[15:33:34] GreyFoxx: 1 fourth is already complete :)
[15:33:42] GreyFoxx: laeaving 3 left :)
[15:34:09] kkuno: lol
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[16:03:48] GlemSom: When choosing video source – i can select different grabbers from xmltv. I can also select to combine the grabber with eit... Is it possible to do that as well – if I'm using a custom grabber? (Like selecting NO grabber in video sources) ?
[16:10:17] sphery: GlemSom: the use of both XMLTV and EIT isn't really supported (as both keep stepping on each other's data)
[16:11:25] sphery: But, if you select EIT only, then Myth uses EIT (and you can run a cron job for XMLTV the same as if you were using No grabber).
[16:11:34] iamlindoro_: ISTR some very strange and not-fun scheduling errors that occur as a result of using both
[16:11:39] sphery: yep
[16:12:18] sphery: might end up recording The Rosie Show when you asked for Chuck
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[16:13:27] iamlindoro_: Pretty much the same, right?
[16:13:50] sphery: lol
[16:13:53] GlemSom: sphery, hmm yeah... That might be the solution here... Since mythtv does not wanna fill in EIT for one of my transponders (unless I change the network ID... But then I cannot tune)... So guess I'll have to rely on a custom grabber to fill in the banks (Since xmltv's grabber currently does not work... They changes their website again)
[16:14:33] sphery: as long as you disable EIT on the channels that XMLTV is filling in (and vice versa), it will work fine
[16:14:46] gbee: mixing both on the same channel isn't a good idea since there are liable to be subtle differences in things like start times or subtitles which mean repeats get recorded etc
[16:14:50] sphery: if you use both XMLTV and EIT on the same channel, you'll have a mess
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[16:15:10] gbee: but mixing them on the same source for different channels is fine – I've done it for years
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[16:20:40] javatexan: can you concat VOB files?
[16:21:07] javatexan: at binary level....will that work, I mean.....take 5 VOB files and concat into one?
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[16:22:49] iamlindoro_: It can be done but you'd have seeking issues as they're Program Streams and not transport streams
[16:23:04] iamlindoro_: If I were going to try it, I'd cat them together, then do a stream copy in ffmpeg
[16:23:29] iamlindoro_: ie "cat test0*.vob > Final.vob"
[16:23:30] iamlindoro_: then
[16:23:45] iamlindoro_: ffmpeg -i Final.vob -acodec copy -vcodec copy outputfile.vob
[16:24:00] iamlindoro_: which should fix the duration/seeking if you're lucky
[16:24:07] at0m|c: try mpgtx
[16:24:18] javatexan: cool thats exactly why I want to concat them.....to throw them into mencoder actually
[16:24:45] iamlindoro_: There's no need to get into exotic tools, cat'ing and a stream copy should do the job fine
[16:25:04] iamlindoro_: It works perfectly on EVOB, which is VOB + support for HD formats
[16:26:15] javatexan: cool...thanks.
[16:26:20] at0m|c: javatexan, http://www.electric-spoon.com/cgi-bin/man/man2html?mpgtx+1
[16:27:22] javatexan: cool beanos....
[16:27:42] inordkuo (inordkuo!n=inorkuo@97.66.21.169) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:27:53] javatexan: i love google bookmarks
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[16:28:18] sphery: Finswimmer: Problems with the umlaut meaning that in the UI (program listings, OSD, etc.), they're not the right character?
[16:29:30] javatexan: I cant rip DVD in mythtv from disney....is there a way around that? The cars DVD effectively says "infinity" and some of the others just outright fail. I am using the RipDVD within mythtv....
[16:30:21] sphery: Myth doesn't support ripping copyright-protected DVD's... So, if it fails (and it will on (virtually?) all Disney DVD's), you'll need to find some other program.
[16:31:19] javatexan: ok thats what I thought....thanks
[16:31:53] iamlindoro_: Plus Disney and Sony are the nastiest with "non-standard" copy-protection
[16:32:04] iamlindoro_: Which technically makes it not a DVD any more but that's neither here nor there
[16:32:33] javatexan: I know...punks.....If I didn't have kids I would boycott....but try doing that with 3 kids....right!!!
[16:32:38] javatexan: yeah...I know
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[16:33:42] sphery: Agreed... From a Disney board meeting, "When it comes to DVD's, pirates can't rip ARccOS we have RipGuard[s] in place..."
[16:34:20] iamlindoro_: sphery: In spite of the incorrectness of that statement, I'm sure that's what they'd have investors believe :)
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[16:34:30] Finswimmer: sphery: no. they are from mythfilldatabase.
[16:35:09] sphery: iamlindoro_: the incorrectness meaning that pirates can rip them (which I agree with)... The semi-homophones should be correct, though, right?
[16:35:25] iamlindoro_: sphery: Exactly
[16:35:50] iamlindoro_: sphery: Was differing only with them, and only with the contention that it couldn't be done
[16:36:29] sphery: Finswimmer: So what problems, exactly? If mythfilldatabase (and/or your grabber) has things encoded incorrectly, that would prevent it from working.
[16:36:34] sphery: iamlindoro_: understood
[16:38:00] iamlindoro_: Ah, that's helpful: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=124978
[16:39:00] sphery: iamlindoro_: nice...
[16:39:26] sphery: nice enough that I'd bet a lot of people in #mythtv would appreciate your mentioning it there... :)
[16:39:29] iamlindoro_: sphery: Yeah, would be nice rather than guessing about which chips can do what to just point people at that
[16:42:27] sphery: I'm wondering what you can do with 2-bit alpha... R10G10B10A2. Perhaps for when you don't need alpha, but want 10-bit color.
[16:48:25] GlemSom: If I choose my grabber to be "EIT only" – and use that as video source... And then one 3 channels I choose NOT to enable "use over the air" scanning... Will that work then?
[16:49:28] kormoc: 2 bit alpha is just 'fully transparent' or 'fully not transparent', no?
[16:49:52] iamlindoro_: sphery: I'm very curious to see the "chroma upsampling" features of VDPAU in action-- seems that the analogue of the "PureVideo" features they tout in windows (ie "Brighter, shinier, vibrant colors!")
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[16:51:59] iamlindoro_: Also want to see ivtc working :)
[16:54:23] at0m|c: even Winblows seems to have issues with Disney DVD's :> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310510
[16:54:31] at0m|c: "Playback and Copy-Protection Issues When You Try to Play the Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs DVD Movie"
[16:55:15] GlemSom: hmm, even tough I selected "use over the air" on the channels I get this in mythbackend.log: "TVRec(1): EIT scanning disabled for all sources on this card"... I'm using "no grabber" since I need a custom grabber (then one with xmltv is currently broken since they changes their website)
[16:55:31] iamlindoro_: As previously mentioned, they're not technically DVDs any more when ARCoSS is applied, so it's no wonder legacy UDF drivers have trouble with them
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[16:55:51] at0m|c: crazy
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[16:56:26] ** iamlindoro_ huggles his AnyDVD HD **
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[16:56:49] iamlindoro_: 12 days to buy it with lifetime upgrades, folks :)
[17:00:22] Finswimmer: sphery: i am using tvm2xml.py. the devs say, that the umlaute are transformed in number coder such as: &#xF6; because mythfilldatabase cannot handle real umlaute.
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[17:05:53] dustybin: iamlindoro_: does this do the same thing as anydvd: http://www.dvdfab.com/free.htm
[17:06:05] iamlindoro_: Nothing does the same thing as AnyDVD
[17:06:28] iamlindoro_: There are other decryption/ripping programs, but none of them have the abilities AnyDVD has
[17:06:34] dustybin: aye ok
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[17:09:33] GlemSom: Since using "no-grabber" does not work with EIT – how do I add my own grabber to the grabber list in mythtv-setup?
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[17:11:02] iamlindoro_: GlemSom: If your grabber in XMLTV compliant and installed properly, mythtv-setup should "automagically" pick it up AFAIK
[17:11:08] iamlindoro_: er s/in/is/
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[17:14:54] ** iamlindoro_ is amused by the "MythTV records but doesn't write to disk" subject **
[17:15:00] iamlindoro_: Not by the thread, just by the subject
[17:15:26] javatexan: iamlindoro_: are you getting kickbacks from anydvd?
[17:15:51] iamlindoro_: I should at this rate
[17:15:51] javatexan: :P
[17:15:52] iamlindoro_: There's at least one person in here who's convinced I have lucrative corporate sponsorships, so why not?
[17:15:54] javatexan: LOL
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[17:16:27] ** Anduin bets against it being Seagate **
[17:16:43] iamlindoro_: HAhaha
[17:17:26] iamlindoro_: It's not so much that it's *not* seagate so much as it *is* WD
[17:17:45] javatexan: they even put that disney crap on Baby Einstein...babies never want to watch the same thing over and over until it doesnt work anymore.....shish
[17:17:46] iamlindoro_: PS, I heard that Seagate will knock up your teen daughter and run away with your wallet
[17:17:54] javatexan: lol
[17:18:32] javatexan: wow Seagate is diversifying their portfolio....I hear thats a good thing in a tough economy...
[17:18:38] HowdyDoody: does VisionTek [HD650] tv card have linux drivers. I have searched but cannot find list of supported hardware that mythtv can use ? Should I just return the product and seek something else ?
[17:18:50] iamlindoro_: HowdyDoody: www.linuxtv.org
[17:19:03] iamlindoro_: Search the wikis there, DVB wiki for digital card, v4l wiki for analog ones
[17:19:15] iamlindoro_: If it's not listed as supported in the wiki, in all liklihood it's not
[17:20:35] iamlindoro_: Per my own search, seems it's unsupported
[17:21:16] iamlindoro_: !trout Anduin svn-commit
[17:21:16] ** MythLogBot slaps Anduin with a svn-commit trout on behalf of iamlindoro_... **
[17:21:59] iamlindoro_: Sorry Anduin, trying to teach the kids how a bill becomes a law... erm... how a patch becomes a commit
[17:24:28] Anduin: iamlindoro__: Yes I know, should have time tonight/over the weekend, only my changes holding it up.
[17:24:35] iamlindoro_: Maybe if I promise not to patch MythVideo for at least two weeks...
[17:24:49] Anduin: bah, I can ignore patches, just look!
[17:25:11] iamlindoro_: You underestimate my facility for getting under people's skin ;)
[17:25:37] iamlindoro_: Too many people ignore the all out obnoxiousness step of getting their stuff committed
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[17:26:50] Anduin: some people need to be prodded, I'm certainly one of them
[17:27:46] iamlindoro_: I promise the next crazy idea I come up with will pertain to someone else's stuff
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[17:35:08] iamlindoro_: Actually, had thought about looking at the thetvdb API to see about pulling the banner images for TV shows in as part of MythFillDB for use in the EPG
[17:35:54] iamlindoro_: YES, nice post – http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008 . . . /242142.html
[17:36:07] iamlindoro_: Howcome MythTV sucks allthetimes?
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[17:37:31] iamlindoro_: "Here is a list of complaints and no diagnostic information whatsoever. Fix it!!"
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[17:43:24] javatexan: wow...I love anydvd...too bad its on windows
[17:43:28] Anduin: I like the scheduler, that doesn't stop me from checking it every day. Of the many possibilities I'd check the input priority first, oh wait, or you could just ignore the user list.
[17:43:54] kormoc: Ignore the users! That's what I've been doing wrong all along!
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[17:44:12] iamlindoro_: kormoc: How will you even get people to adopt your product? for shame!
[17:44:15] Anduin: I felt obligated to read it when I got commit access, I no longer do.
[17:44:17] iamlindoro_: s/even/ever/
[17:44:52] Anduin: it is easier to do knowing sphery will just take care of it anyway
[17:44:58] kormoc: iamlindoro: adoption rate doesn't seem to be a problem :P
[17:45:00] ** kormoc laughs **
[17:45:14] kormoc: Anduin: how true!
[17:45:22] iamlindoro_: Anduin: But then if anyone prints his response, there's a very real chance of deforestation
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[18:57:01] sphery: GlemSom: EIT only (in myth) + script that uses XMLTV to download a file and calls mythfilldatabase for the appropriate video source (outside of myth). No grabber does exactly what it says--disables /all/ grabbers (including EIT). It's meant for those who record from VCR's whatever.
[18:57:39] sphery: iamlindoro_: you do realize GreyFoxx is working on thetvdb thing, right?
[18:57:55] iamlindoro_: sphery: Yes, although I am talking about an entirely different purpose
[18:58:17] iamlindoro_: sphery: His is for plot info/MythVideo, I am talking about adding functionality to MFDB for the EPG
[19:00:43] sphery: he + gbee have plans to make it generic so it uses posters/(the short-wide pics) in, i.e. Watch Recordings.
[19:01:01] sphery: so, TTBOMK, they're not planning on making it only for MV
[19:01:12] sphery: (or using it only in MV)
[19:01:48] iamlindoro_: OK, perhaps I misunderstood. The last time he and I were talking about it it was only MV
[19:01:57] iamlindoro_: though I allow that it's probably evolved since
[19:03:32] sphery: maybe it's just gbee that's taking it farther
[19:03:56] sphery: hmmm... someone on the -users list is recommending WD green. Can't believe they're not recommending Seagate.  :)
[19:05:13] sphery: sping down /and/ unmount drives when not in use?
[19:05:54] clever: umounting!?
[19:07:06] sphery: he says it's for a backup drive, only (he said backup drive and a RAID spare, but the RAID spare wouldn't be mounted, so...)
[19:07:08] GreyFoxx: sphery: That package arrived, thanks!
[19:07:19] GreyFoxx: 3 of those will be in use tomorrow morning ;)
[19:07:53] sphery: GreyFoxx: sweet... Just in time to replace your bad 250
[19:08:19] iamlindoro_: sphery: http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008 . . . /242160.html
[19:08:47] sphery: GreyFoxx: if you don't end up using the PAL one for your security camera, then thanks for keeping it in your computer junk room instead of mine
[19:09:09] clever: weird, it looks like i got booted from -users
[19:09:28] iamlindoro_: You're *in* users.
[19:09:32] clever: maybe it was when i tried to sent a small reply with a link and it didnt go thru
[19:09:35] clever: the mailing list
[19:09:38] GreyFoxx: sphery: Yeah, perfect timing
[19:09:40] iamlindoro_: ah
[19:09:41] sphery: clever: you posting with the name "VCR Addict"?  ;)
[19:09:47] iamlindoro_: Ha
[19:09:52] iamlindoro_: Oh, and stop calling Isaac
[19:09:57] clever: my vcr went tits up months ago
[19:10:02] GreyFoxx: I tried my failing pvr250 using the composite inputs and the picture was fine. So it's the tuner on the device that's failing, not the card itself
[19:10:11] clever: and its the only hifi one, so all the tapes are useless now
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[19:11:33] clever: or not
[19:11:35] Anduin: GreyFoxx: That is the way 3 of the 4 x50s I've lost went
[19:11:41] clever: got an email saying that im allready on -users
[19:11:56] clever: whcih is odd because i havent gotten any of the recent posts
[19:12:41] Anduin: clever: checked that you are still set to deliver?
[19:13:37] clever: i havent changed that, but i didnt see where to get into it either
[19:13:54] sphery: GreyFoxx: my tuners were never used (always S-Video)--and technically, the 2 PVR-150's didn't ever really get used at all, so I hope that means they're up for a long tuner lifetime
[19:13:56] Anduin: clever: in the mailman settings screen you log in to
[19:14:17] clever: i dont see a login section
[19:14:42] GreyFoxx: Anduin: well, 5 years of hardlarbour is a pretty good life so I can't complain I guess
[19:14:47] clever: ooo there
[19:14:48] Anduin: clever: http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users/
[19:14:52] clever: unsubstribe OR EDIT
[19:14:59] GreyFoxx: but dang, having 4 fail would be pretty upsetting
[19:15:10] clever: that was right next to the admin thing, so i didnt read it
[19:15:17] sphery: iamlindoro_: agreed (though I would have added, "someone who has a separate system just for MythTV development" in the "who should run trunk" part--as, especially now, running it in production is more dangerous than ever).
[19:15:28] clever: wtf, delivery is off?
[19:15:34] iamlindoro_: sphery: Written in the heat of the moment :)
[19:15:40] Dagmar: Using trunk for a production system is just stupid.
[19:16:17] clever: fixed i think
[19:16:21] Dagmar: Do not, do not, do not ever use unstable and/or devel code in anything that needs to be called "production"
[19:16:35] sphery: clever: it gets set to off if your mail server is unavailable for a long time (> a few hours)
[19:16:54] clever: sphery: i had forgoten to tell my emial client to delete messages from the server
[19:16:57] clever: so my bot overflowed
[19:17:09] clever: box*
[19:17:12] Dagmar: gmail > you
[19:17:28] sphery: I.e., rather than the list server wasting time trying to send to a broken mail server/full inbox, it just stops sending until you tell it, "OK, please forgive me, I've fixed my mail."
[19:17:28] clever: its my ISP service
[19:17:32] Anduin: clever: it happens, some number of bounces can trigger it too (when my VPS provider changes something I get bumped occasionally)
[19:17:43] Dagmar: "You are currently using 1124 MB (15%) of your 7275 MB."
[19:17:55] clever: but the dev list didnt get booted
[19:18:10] Dagmar: clever: Use your brain
[19:18:10] iamlindoro_: dev list is much lower volume
[19:18:13] sphery: fewer messages sent to it, so may not have hit the bounce limit :)
[19:18:15] clever: ahh, makes sense
[19:18:32] ** iamlindoro_ sits patiently and waits to be yelled at on the users list **
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[19:18:53] iamlindoro_: "How DARE you! You don't know me! I do what I want!"
[19:19:33] jamesd: iamlindoro, http://xkcd.com/386/
[19:19:40] sphery: I should really find a Gentoo user who wants to fix his system so that 8-bit characters will work properly so they can test the procedure for me before I write it up in the wiki...
[19:19:48] iamlindoro_: an oldie but a goodie
[19:19:52] clever: lol
[19:19:54] clever: yeah
[19:20:12] sphery: Unfortunately, my parents are about to show up for a 3-wk visit.
[19:20:16] clever: was arguing with a guy last night about something, and he refused to check if he was wrong:P
[19:20:17] iamlindoro_: jamesd: I just have a feeling that from the perspective of the -users list, *I'm* going to be the "wrong guy on the internet"
[19:20:33] Dagmar: Oh yeah
[19:20:40] Dagmar: iamlindoro: You're Robert, right?>
[19:20:43] iamlindoro_: Dagmar: yar
[19:20:50] clever: thats the same guy that couldnt even change 1 value in a text file thru gedit
[19:20:53] Dagmar: Yeah if they start going nuts, say something to me.
[19:20:58] Dagmar: I'll sign up on the list just to back you up.
[19:21:06] iamlindoro_: Hehe, well thanks :)
[19:21:10] ** iamlindoro_ tears up a little **
[19:21:37] Dagmar: There's a very significant gap in the logic most people use to justify wanting production behaviour out of their cobbled together bullsh*t system at home
[19:21:51] Dagmar: I've got experience smashing that mental failure
[19:21:57] sphery: If everyone starts yelling at iamlindoro_, I'm going to take their side. I want them to be my friends.
[19:22:24] iamlindoro_: sphery: Heh, was jut about to say something about how hard it is to go against the grain on the list, you just *know* you'll catch grief for doing so
[19:22:44] ** Dagmar doesn't care if he makes "Internet Enemies" **
[19:23:00] Dagmar: The internet's full of people who'll hate you anyway.
[19:23:04] sphery: besides, why shouldn't they be able to run trunk? I mean, look how stable the trunk of that 30-yr-old oak tree outside is. It's the branches that do all the waving...
[19:23:06] Dagmar: A few more is nothing
[19:23:58] iamlindoro_: The only acceptable behavior on the list is to provide them with whatever information they want, within five minutes
[19:24:04] iamlindoro_: (with a smile)
[19:24:29] iamlindoro_: TBH I'm not even entirely certain *I* qualify to run trunk, aside from the fact that I'm adding new stuff here and there
[19:24:56] J-e-f-f-A: watto: nope. The major version must match – protocol changes.
[19:25:12] J-e-f-f-A: ^ woops, up arrow on wrong screen! \
[19:25:12] sphery: anyone can run trunk--as long as they (like you said) don't add to the support burden
[19:25:37] sphery: was going to say, "Is there really someone trying to be on topic in here?"
[19:25:57] clever: ive got trunk on everything
[19:26:03] clever: but its fairly old
[19:26:06] sphery: iamlindoro_: (and you don't add to the support burden--except with your whining about committing :)
[19:26:23] iamlindoro_: I only add to the burden if he actually *does* it ;)
[19:26:57] sphery: Not nearly as bad as, "Please , check this patch, as soon as possible!" on #6004
[19:27:02] iamlindoro_: Besides, that whine is directly related to new fun features
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[19:27:25] sphery: In other words, "My patch is far more important than any of the patches in the other 600 tickets, so why haven't you committed it, yet?"
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[19:27:38] sphery: ^^^ is the #6004 guy
[19:27:52] iamlindoro_: Wait wait
[19:28:07] iamlindoro_: did he set up a repos just for myth + his patch?
[19:28:22] clever: lol
[19:28:32] sphery: I don't know... I thought he was piggy-backing off the mythdora repo, but...
[19:28:56] sphery: from the summary, though, it looks like he just set up his own
[19:29:11] iamlindoro_: "This project is intended to provide updated pack's for Myth Dora&Buntu distro's. Especially for updated RTL (Hebrew) languages patches not included yet in mainstream"
[19:29:37] sphery: Well, on the bright side, it's not like the packagers spend a lot of time doing their jobs... Oh, wait. They do.
[19:30:04] Dagmar: Packaging is *definitely* a lot of time
[19:30:21] sphery: yeah, sarcasm
[19:30:27] Dagmar: Not sarcasm
[19:30:42] sphery: right--agreeing with you, my first was sarcasm
[19:30:48] Dagmar: Ah okay
[19:31:04] Dagmar: Like, you don't even want to know how much time I was spending on Dropline stuff.
[19:31:09] J-e-f-f-A: \
[19:31:10] J-e-f-f-A: \\\
[19:31:43] iamlindoro_: Slash key gremlin
[19:32:22] Dagmar: *Ferret-like typing detected!*
[19:34:09] Dagmar: wow... boggle @ "ringbuf in memory" thread
[19:34:22] sphery: Perhaps I should set up a repo for better "Automatically mark recordings as watched" support (with patch from #5910) and a repo for YL (with patch from #5759) and a repo for "Allow NIS-format /etc/timezone" (#5896) and a repo for "Allow different but equivalent time zones" (#5872) and a repo for "Make MythXML program guide inclusive" (#4956)
[19:34:46] sphery: Dagmar: yeah, an X2 5200+ that can't do SDTV playback.  :)
[19:35:07] sphery: and he thought it might be the reading/writing of video
[19:35:15] Dagmar: Well, what gets me is that he's hoping to throw money at the problem by feeding RAM to a mechanism that's no longer there
[19:35:23] justdave: are there known issues at all with playing DVDs in MythVideo that were generated by Apple's iDVD software?
[19:35:57] justdave: seem to play fine on a normal DVD player, but Myth just aborts and goes back to the MythTV menu if you try to play one in Myth
[19:36:01] Dagmar: Allow NIS format whatsis?
[19:36:31] Dagmar: Apps shouldn't need to look at /etc/timezone. What's going on there?
[19:36:55] Dagmar: justdave: Find out some specifics about what format the video file on the DVD is
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[19:37:00] iamlindoro_: Yay! Just got a $300 Amazon Gift Card from work for Christmas
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[19:37:09] iamlindoro_: Guess my loved ones are getting presents this year after all
[19:37:10] J-e-f-f-A: justdave: I don't know, but I've had iDVD-generated DVDs that would not play with audio in all players, etc...
[19:37:22] sphery: Myth verifies that the time zone ID in use on the master backend is the same as the remote backends and frontends and MythWeb
[19:37:31] sphery: because Myth hasn't been converted to use UTC times
[19:37:35] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro_: After you guy another HD-PVR for $208?  :-)
[19:37:40] Dagmar: justdave: Odds are they're using some "not the usual" codecs there that the ffmpeg code isn't happy about
[19:37:56] iamlindoro_: J-e-f-f-A: My current one is still working, my workmanship isn't *that* shoddy ;)
[19:38:11] J-e-f-f-A: iamlindoro_: Yeah, but you KNOW you want another one! ;-)
[19:38:14] sphery: iamlindoro_: and you can save $15 on any $75+ purchase from buy.com (today only)
[19:38:30] Dagmar: sphery: Pardon my french but "HOLY SH*T" do you mean to tell me that when Myth got started the guys didn't know to convert everything to UTC and do evaluations from UTC time?
[19:38:33] sphery: Udo's back on the list
[19:39:14] iamlindoro_: sphery: Will probably break it out into a couple of other gift cards for adult siblings and spend the rest on my folks and the youngest kids — not really techies, any of them
[19:39:19] Dagmar: I guess that's something you have to learn the hard way, but still... eoe
[19:39:25] Dagmar: s/eoe/wow/;
[19:39:44] iamlindoro_: sphery: He's the "Why backend leak memory" allergice to valgrind record everything at once on his VIA guy, right?
[19:39:54] sphery: Dagmar: the decision was made that since Myth is for use within a household and all machines in the household should be in the same time zone and it's /much/ easier to view listings data when the DB contains the start/end times in local time, it was good enough
[19:40:01] iamlindoro_: s/allergice/allergic/
[19:40:04] justdave: Dagmar: where would I look for that, vob files?
[19:40:14] Dagmar: sphery: Hmm... That was kinda a bad decision there.
[19:40:21] sphery: (much easier to view when not using Myth--i.e. when debugging the program that was just starting to be written)
[19:40:23] Dagmar: Like I said, ya gotta learn it the hard way
[19:40:35] sphery: why is it so bad?
[19:40:46] Dagmar: Well, as is being seen now, it'll *eff* you every time
[19:40:51] justdave: My household lives in two different timezones for example
[19:41:00] justinh: ruh?
[19:41:06] Dagmar: For one thing, UTC never goes backwards
[19:41:06] justdave: because I live on the east coast in the US and work for a company on the west coast
[19:41:16] justdave: and I work from home
[19:41:21] justinh: so?
[19:41:23] Dagmar: ...and there are never any suprise hour leap forwards, either.
[19:41:24] justdave: so there's a couple of the computers that run on pacific time
[19:41:33] sphery: Dagmar: It only upsets the one guy who wants to record a show from 2:00–3:00am (either of the 2) on either DST change (and only because that guy doesn't know how to do it right).
[19:41:39] justinh: ah. do stupid stuff like that, silly things happen :)
[19:41:57] justinh: can people not reckon time differences in their own heads?
[19:41:58] Dagmar: ...and there's easily-available functions in almost every language to seamlessly convert any localtime value to UTC, which eliminates the problem
[19:42:05] justinh: it's not as if they're ever fractions of hours apart
[19:42:06] sphery: Dagmar: it doesn't eff anyone--only those who don't set up the same time zones on their machines--i.e. those who /don't/ properly configure their systems, anyway
[19:42:37] justdave: or if you move from one timezone to another and everything changes
[19:42:44] Dagmar: justdave++
[19:42:46] justdave: then all your old stuff suddenly has timestamps that are a few hours off
[19:42:46] justinh: edge cases
[19:42:48] sphery: justdave: no, that does /not/ matter
[19:43:04] Dagmar: Like, there's many MANY ways using localtime for computations can and will f**k you hard, none of which are obvious.
[19:43:13] justinh: it only matters when the machines in a myth network are on different TZ
[19:43:28] Dagmar: Imagine what happens if you're doing your own timeouts and suddenly, time jumps an hour forwards.
[19:43:42] justinh: that used to happen in maths lectures
[19:43:47] sphery: justdave: with the current setup, if you move, your show that you recorded at 8:00pm EST on whatever day is shown as recorded at 8:00pm (new local time) on the same day it was recorded.
[19:43:48] Dagmar: BOOM. Everyone's been idle for an hour. Logout everyone. Break all locks as stale, timeout all sockets, etc etc
[19:44:00] Dagmar: justinh: lol
[19:44:11] sphery: justdave: would you prefer that all your old primetime recordings get shown as 4:00pm start tiem?
[19:44:37] Dagmar: Convert all times to UTC and do the computations/comparisons as UTC and then convert back to localtime to show users, and then all these crazy time problems go away for good.
[19:44:39] justdave: sphery: maybe store the timezone that it was recorded in as well
[19:44:45] justinh: why?
[19:44:52] justinh: for a very edgy case? not even worth it!
[19:45:05] sphery: justdave: if there were a valid reason for the /machine/ to be in a different TZ, it doesn't matter... Just start myth programs with: TZ="America/Los_Angeles" mythbackend
[19:45:15] Dagmar: sphery: They wouldn't show at being recorded at 4:00pm
[19:45:30] justdave: it's not an edge case, it's just proper programming when dealing with time
[19:45:31] Dagmar: ...unless they were acutally recorded at 4:00pm.
[19:45:48] justinh: timezones shifting around is er.. edgy
[19:46:01] sphery: justinh is right... "All that to appease a few users" (or people who want "academically correct" regardless of practicality)
[19:46:07] justinh: hey, what if the international definition of a second changes? what then?!
[19:46:10] Dagmar: ...because if you moved three hours away, yeah, they *were in fact* recorded at 4:00am, so it wouldn't be so bad to store the TZ value you'd like to permanently display a given time as
[19:46:36] Dagmar: justinh: Ubuntu syslogs will begin with irrational fractions
[19:46:43] sphery: Dagmar: So, you're saying we should /show/ the time zone in the starttime/endtime in the OSD? justinh thoughts as a themer?
[19:46:47] ** justdave is an app dev for Bugzilla. Bugzilla stores stuff in the database in the server's local timezone. We've been shooting ourselves for it for a few years now because there's several bugs that never would have happened and features that could have been easier to implement if it had all been UTC from the start. **
[19:46:47] justinh: and they don't now? lol
[19:47:11] Dagmar: No, just crazy inhuman decimals from hell
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[19:47:41] justdave: MythWeb allows streaming your shows to the net.
[19:47:58] justdave: which means you could legitimately be in a different timezone than your Myth server now and still be watching stuff.
[19:48:23] justinh: so? mythweb's streaming doesn't have near-frame accurate seeking
[19:48:38] Dagmar: ...and if the time information was stored in UTC you could have things *easily* show hte user the schedule in their relative time, or in the timespec where the server is
[19:48:41] sphery: Dagmar: since times in the OSD/UI are always in local time, a show recorded at 8:00pm EST would show as recorded at 5:00pm PST if we did proper conversions--only way it would show 8:00pm if we did proper conversions is if it showed the time zone (and recorded the info about what time zone Myth was in when it recorded--which means reading /etc/timezone, anyway :)
[19:48:59] sphery: Dagmar: it's all doable, it's easy, but the conversion is /not/ easy
[19:49:14] justdave: yeah, what sphery said
[19:49:16] Dagmar: sphery: What your'e describing apparently as a bug is the right thing to be doing actually
[19:49:18] justdave: that's why Bugzilla hasn't been fixed yet
[19:49:19] sphery: Dagmar: and, the conversion benefits 3 people in the world--the 3 who record that show during the DST switch
[19:49:27] justdave: converting the existing data when you make the switch is painful
[19:49:36] Dagmar: If you recorded something at 7pm PST and then told the user it was 7PM EST it would simply be wrong
[19:49:46] Dagmar: sphery: no, it decomplicates code
[19:49:52] justinh: personally I don't care if the 'time recorded' is reported wrong
[19:50:01] justinh: all I care about is the right show being recorded at the right time
[19:50:24] sphery: justinh: me neither, I'd much rather the time reported for my primetime shows be in a primetime window, even if I've moved to Cali since I recorded them
[19:50:28] justinh: .. which over the xmas period isn't a big deal since there's FA on
[19:50:44] iamlindoro_: true that
[19:50:44] Dagmar: To break your example over my knee, my show recorded at 6:00am CST would usually be 12:00 midnight GMT, but why the hell would I have the thing showing me times in GMT?
[19:51:11] justinh: who cares WHEN it was recorded?
[19:51:32] justinh: a) is it the right show? b) is it the right episode? job done
[19:51:36] Dagmar: justinh: Pedants probably but...
[19:51:45] Dagmar: You don't need to read /etc/localtime directly to find out what the timezone is
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[19:52:41] Dagmar: There's a C function to call for that
[19:52:43] justinh: can't wait for 0.22 so I can finally edit out the 'time recorded' BS from 'watch recordings'
[19:53:18] justinh: from using myth in the last couple of days I've decided I don't like the new screen layout so won't be using it
[19:55:28] justinh: mixing horizontal selection areas & vertical ones on the same screen.. probably not a good idea, upon reflection
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[19:55:40] Dagmar: @#$@ I can't remember which function it is in C.
[19:55:47] Dagmar: I('m going to have to go look at the perl docs that reference it
[19:56:00] justinh: Dagmar: qt likely has lots of useful time mangling gear
[19:57:05] Dagmar: justinh: Well, I know it's a C function becuase of the work I've done in perl
[19:57:07] sphery: Dagmar: you have to read /etc/timezone to find out the Olsen DB/zoneinfo zone ID
[19:57:10] Dagmar: I just can't remember it at the moment
[19:57:17] sphery: Dagmar: there is /no/ *nix function that returns that
[19:57:42] justinh: anyway, I thought everything linux did was based on UTC & only coverted to local time whenever the user becomes involved
[19:57:45] sphery: Dagmar: and, knowing the current time zone makes no difference as we have to know when DST changes at all points in the past and future and verify it's the same on both systems
[19:58:00] sphery: Dagmar: that's why we need the zone /ID/
[19:58:50] Dagmar: 1. DST changes happened at the same time everywhere
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[19:59:10] Dagmar: Of this we can be sure because of the relatively contiguous nature of time (math lectures notwithstanding)
[19:59:54] Dagmar: Stsill looking up how perl is pulling it off
[20:00:10] Dagmar: I know we had to rely on those functions when I worked at that medical records place
[20:00:24] Dagmar: We had customers in multiple timezones and you absolutely had to not eff up time conversions
[20:00:40] sphery: Dagmar: for the zoneinfo/Olson DB, a time zone is defined as an area in which local clocks have all agreed since 1970.
[20:01:01] Dagmar: So, do we have any recordings that people made before 1970? (This has come up before)
[20:02:09] sphery: and, BTW, perl's TZ handling is garbage--but, believe it or not, they actually have a function that reads /etc/timezone on Debian-based systems, /etc/sysconfig/clock on Red Hat-based systems, or looks at the link for /etc/localtime or (if localtime is a file) does a direct file comparison of /etc/localtime with every file in /usr/share/zoneinfo
[20:02:25] sphery: which--btw--is exactly what we (and Java and PHP) do
[20:02:33] sphery: and, basically anything else that needs to know the zone ID
[20:02:48] Dagmar: Either way, storing times as localtime for the purposes of comparison/operation is still going to cause problems
[20:02:56] sphery: I didn't just make things up when I wrote the code--I actually did some research
[20:03:00] justinh: oh FFS, somebody send Udo a nice parcel of semtex
[20:03:10] sphery: justinh: lol
[20:03:58] sphery: Dagmar: I'll agree that storing times as localtime is not ideal in a world where more than one time zone exists, but the MythTV world specifies a requirement for only one time zone
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[20:04:17] Dagmar: sphery: okay my bad on thinking there was a C call, I guess perl is ahead in that respect
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[20:04:20] sphery: (and, IMHO, it's not worth fixing for the 3 guys who care)
[20:04:35] Dagmar: I do know that we did literally thousands of these lookups at that place I worked at
[20:04:37] sphery: Dagmar: but perl does exactly what we're doing--I've looked at the code
[20:05:06] justinh: actually there IS a time I care what time a show was recorded. if it's on in the middle of the night when they repeat it with a guy doing ravey dancing over the top
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[20:07:32] justinh: "please, check this patch ASAP".. or what? You'll blow something up? Gonna need more semtex this xmas
[20:07:35] Dagmar: sphery: Well, if you're doing the sasme thing as perl to check /etc/localtime then at least their stuff will catch fire at the same time Myth's does so it'll be unlikely to go unnoticed
[20:09:09] Dagmar: Man WTF does Ubuntu have against setting TZ
[20:09:25] iamlindoro_: justinh: Apparently, "or I'll set up my own sourceforge project for Myth + my patches"
[20:09:46] Dagmar: Let's just do the whole thing over again in perl until it becomes a CPAN module
[20:09:52] justinh: yeah, well. ho hum.
[20:09:55] iamlindoro_: justinh: BTW thought of you last night when I got a BBC iPlayer thingie more or less working
[20:10:00] iamlindoro_: (for MythTube)
[20:10:10] justinh: sounds scrapey
[20:10:14] iamlindoro_: Which I have absolutely no intention of ever making public
[20:10:31] ** Wayhigh wants to find the project manager of CBS's online episode that chose the Move player.. so I can kick him in the jimmy **
[20:10:41] justinh: I have the iPlayer on my cable box thanks. in lovely multi megabit-ness, not cruddy interwebby-ness :)
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[20:11:09] justinh: the UI ain't awful on the cable box either.. most disconcerting!
[20:11:11] iamlindoro_: justinh: Was more of a "can I podge this together in five minutes" and the answer was "yes"
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[20:11:17] justinh: heh
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[20:11:47] justinh: so, who's gonna tell me some good news today then?
[20:12:40] iamlindoro_: It's Friday?
[20:12:48] justinh: or is my guilt trip going to have to get the better of me & I start scribbling again cos nobody else is?
[20:13:02] Wayhigh: justinh: all I need is 4GB of RAM and a 750GB HD and I can build my 2 new mythboxes
[20:13:08] Dagmar: AHA! I was half right at least
[20:13:12] Wayhigh: (good news for me anyways)
[20:14:05] Dagmar: More stabs-in-the-eye for ubuntu not setting TZ, since that'll break the POSIX function tzname apparently
[20:14:15] justinh: all I need is a miracle
[20:15:39] iamlindoro_: All I need is you
[20:15:49] Dagmar: justinh: US automakers are getting 13.3B dollars so they can party for another quarter while they unload all their personal stock in the companies!
[20:15:59] Dagmar: Aren't you glad for them?
[20:16:10] justinh: ugh. nothing worse than being needed.
[20:16:39] justinh: Dagmar: very. hope their houses burn down & their offspring are all still born
[20:16:46] justinh: oops. did I type that? :_
[20:16:47] justinh: :)
[20:17:23] justinh: yes, it's gonna be a very merry christmas
[20:17:43] iamlindoro_: Oh yay, we're back to giving advice resulting in broken DBs on the users list
[20:17:49] iamlindoro_: la plus ça change
[20:17:50] Dagmar: Don't worry. Everyone but union workers are thinking it here
[20:18:29] justinh: ahh the unions. where would we be without the unions?
[20:18:46] iamlindoro_: sphery: and it's your fave and mine doing it
[20:19:08] Wayhigh: damn it.. I'm so annoyed by these auto makers getting bailouts
[20:19:53] Wayhigh: why should I have to give them money just because their corporate execs have their head up their ass
[20:20:05] justinh: BECAUSE! End of story
[20:20:09] justinh: feel better now?
[20:20:11] justinh: they sure do
[20:20:18] Dagmar: Wayhigh: Because we didn't burn Bush out of office
[20:20:24] iamlindoro_: Mommy, why is daddy justinh always so angry?
[20:20:46] justinh: iamlindoro_ you have no idea what kind of week I've been having
[20:21:04] iamlindoro_: justinh: FWIW I'm having the most horrible week I've had in years, so I empathize
[20:21:27] justinh: had to step in on my wife's behalf on account of her newly purchased car er.. not being fit for purpose. It's getting a new engine management unit next week. yeah, like that'll fix it.
[20:21:46] justinh: the dealer is paying for all this, but that isn't the point really
[20:22:21] Wayhigh: justinh: how old is it and how many major repairs have you had done so far?
[20:22:38] Dagmar: justinh: You should do like I do. Make her wear a wire and recorder and go in alone the first time.
[20:22:43] justinh: doesn't matter. one way or the other the matter will be resolved
[20:23:03] Dagmar: I had a service manager almost in tears
[20:23:06] justinh: they've got til a week on Monday to sort it out
[20:23:50] Dagmar: They'll see a girl and tell so many lies you just wouldn't believe how much ammunition it gives you
[20:24:26] Wayhigh: another thing.. I hope some president disbands the United Automobile Workers union if they go against what has been demanded
[20:24:28] Dagmar: "Well, what we told her was..." "No, I know exactly what you told her and it was ..." (hour later) "Perhaps I'm not being cleat enough, I have you on tape saying this to her."
[20:24:49] justinh: had the AA out last saturday, they read out 2 diag codes. I looked em up.. very common fault on this car. garage is clueless. I've asked them to itemise every single thing they've tried. not once did they mention any wiring checks or connector inspections, they're just poking around in the dark
[20:24:55] Dagmar: Wayhigh: Considering it's what the Unions want I doubt they'll have a problem with it
[20:25:09] Wayhigh: unions want to cut their wages?
[20:25:12] Dagmar: WHen factories close and/or slowdown, they don't get to skim as much money off the workers who aren't workoing
[20:25:36] Wayhigh: dagmar: hahaha that's so true
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[20:25:44] justinh: well, it'll be good when the ECU is swapped out either way. 1. if it IS that it's fixed! 2. if it's not that, the garage is out of pocket to the tune of ££££
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[20:26:19] Dagmar:
[20:26:22] Dagmar: ;)
[20:26:26] justinh: hell if I'd been able to find it I'd have checked it out myself
[20:26:51] justinh: Dagmar: about $2000
[20:26:56] Dagmar: Nice
[20:27:17] Dagmar: I hate greezy lazy repair shops and pretty much go into them now with the mindset of someone who is looking to grief the whole place
[20:27:20] Wayhigh: justinh: the problem you're seeing is that a lot of garages go by the book for the error codes.. and the manuals often say.. 1. replace x; 2. replace y; 3. replace z
[20:27:31] justinh: Wayhigh: duh :)
[20:27:48] Dagmar: I've had them tell me about "warped rotors" and all sorts of things which were easily verifiable as LIES
[20:27:49] justinh: thing is, even my wife is saying to check all the ducking plugs & connections
[20:27:52] Wayhigh: honestly.. they fix things by replacing crap without knowing what's even broken
[20:28:16] justinh: dealer is like "oh, I'm sure they'll have done all that by now". Really?
[20:28:20] Wayhigh: justin: what kinda car?
[20:28:24] justinh: ford fiesta
[20:28:32] Dagmar: I once had a repair shop *manager* invoked to explain to me that I needed new shocks and springs, and that those were the cause of the car bouncing like it was hitting invisible armadilloes in the road,
[20:28:44] Wayhigh: dude.. they only call it a fiesta cause it's a party on your dime..
[20:28:56] Dagmar: ...while the car was up on the lift, and I could SEE the gaping hole in my hub that was wear a couple of bearings just blasted their way out
[20:29:03] justinh: google "EAC fail" & see how many hits you get where an ECU replacement is mentioned
[20:29:32] Dagmar: They had the balls to tell me that after they replaced my shocks and springs it would be safe to take the car on the Interstate to get home
[20:29:50] justinh: not saying it ain't that, but in the majority of cases it's never the ECU at fault, just happens that changing it fixes stuff. Like er.. that can't mean the connector just needed to be reseated or anything...
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[20:29:59] Dagmar: I told them if they can't figure out they need to fix the hub and bearings, I would be calling the police
[20:30:06] Dagmar: I wasn't quiet about it either
[20:30:37] justinh: Dagmar: oh come on man, they're not paid enough to give a crap :)
[20:30:37] Dagmar: You don't take a car on the damn interstate when a wheel, literally, is about to come off the car. I was going to press charges
[20:31:08] Dagmar: justinh: Actually the mecahnics there were getting paid more per hour than I ever did as an on-site PC repair tech, and in theory their job is a lot less complex
[20:31:15] justinh: yeah? oof
[20:31:28] Dagmar: They were taking home $22/hour
[20:31:31] justinh: actually I know one grease monkey who's on a fair wedge
[20:31:38] Dagmar: I was making $11/hour and that was high for the area
[20:31:43] Wayhigh: dagmar: see.. should have asked if it would be fine to drive it with those bearing missing.. ohh.. it is.. OK..
[20:31:55] Dagmar: Wayhigh: I did ask actually.
[20:31:57] Wayhigh: part goes.. new car.. money in pocket..
[20:32:13] justinh: another problem is that warranties pay out per visit
[20:32:15] Wayhigh: provided you survive.. :P
[20:32:19] Dagmar: I was going to call the police down there for whatever I could make them buy into. Criminal negligence, attempted homocide, whatever
[20:32:30] justinh: so the garages have no incentive to fix stuff 1st time out
[20:32:59] Wayhigh: I put a sweet negative review on edmunds.com for our local VW dealer's service department
[20:33:10] iamlindoro_: and now for something completely different: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHAshi4vdbg
[20:33:10] Dagmar: justinh: Tell them if they fail you'll have to park it in their showroom at a high rate of speed and they'll give you an honest answer about whether or not they're certain they know what's wrong
[20:33:10] justinh: infact I'd say that was the entire problem..
[20:33:16] iamlindoro_: Haha, I wanna go home and play with my dog
[20:33:22] Wayhigh: they tried telling me I had to replace stuff that I'd just replaced myself
[20:33:39] Wayhigh: and then had the nerve to send that stuff to me in writing so I have written proof of their attempt at fraud
[20:33:39] Dagmar: It definitely got straight answers out of those guys at Goodyear when I told them I was going to have to smash my car into their building
[20:34:11] justinh: OMFG you melted my cold heart iamlindoro
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[20:34:24] Dagmar: They'd just soaked me for almost $600 to replace a distributor, and were trying to soak me for another $800 to replace the carburetor.
[20:34:36] iamlindoro_: There's little that can't be solved by puppehs
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[20:34:49] Dagmar: I toook it to a dealership, and one hour and $110 later I had a new alternator, which is what I went in there f**king telling them it was
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[20:35:30] Dagmar: justinh: So, get a little freaked out and describe to them a possible scenario by which you destroy their place of business if they're wrong
[20:35:45] Dagmar: You find out real quick how sure they are of their diagnosis
[20:36:12] Dagmar: The sad thing was that I really meant it at the time I was doing all that crazy talk. They were about to take 3/4 of my remaining money and I was trying to get another job
[20:37:14] Wayhigh: My VW Passat is such a lemon I had to learn how to fix it myself.
[20:37:18] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: WTF/ $600 for a distributor???
[20:37:30] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: Oh yes. They had decided I was easy money
[20:37:47] Wayhigh: whoah.. dagmar.. was the second payment option "bend over" or what?
[20:37:57] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: What kind of car?
[20:38:08] Dagmar: Problem is, I've driven "beater" cars since I was 16. I don't generally have the *tools* around to work on them, but I *do* know how they work and how to do all the minor repairs "beaters" need
[20:38:40] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: What area are you from?
[20:39:04] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: It was a 1991 Mitsubishi Mirage. You know, the "zombie" model that never really dies, just the paint wears off
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[20:40:26] Dagmar: Electric valves, fun stuff when the alternator goes wonky
[20:40:56] Dagmar: The way the thing behaved just before it would completely cease to be able to keep the engine going steadily was kind of a dead giveaway about the problem
[20:41:35] Dagmar: My dad, for some reason, they never screwed around with
[20:41:53] justinh: well, time for some down time. had enough of car crap for one month
[20:41:54] Dagmar: He was the reason I took the car to them in the first place because he was sure that after 10 years they can't still all be idiots over there
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[20:42:34] Dagmar: I've been talking about the same repair shop here mind you. The busted hub and the "we dont' think it's the alternator, we think it'll cost you $1400" places are the same place
[20:42:56] Dagmar: BTW, the "Mr. Goodwrench" certification doesn't mean a damn thing
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[20:45:49] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: You're not in the northeast, are you?
[20:45:56] Dagmar: Nope. Southeastern US
[20:46:29] J-e-f-f-A: Dagmar: Ah, if you were close, I'd say "just come over my house, we'll fix 'er up..."... ;-)
[20:46:43] Dagmar: ...and the next time I have a repair shop tell me I can take a car on the interstate that I know would get me killed, I have a cameraphone they can talk into
[20:46:44] Wicked: hello all. anyone here using a hd pvr? im thinking about ordering one today.
[20:46:52] Dagmar: ...cuz I'm damn well pressing charges
[20:47:25] Dagmar: J-e-f-f-A: I have a scooter now which as soon as it stops being frozen and wet outside will resume being my "daily driver"
[20:47:32] Dagmar: Engines I can take out without a crane are FTW
[20:47:40] Wicked: but i read that cable co's may block or disable component out soon....in essence making it obsolete without getting another $200+ hdfury2 box
[20:47:51] Dagmar: Wicked: You've been lied to
[20:48:03] Wicked: i got it from the myth wiki
[20:48:14] Dagmar: At the moment, not only won't they disable component out, they're legally forbidden to do so
[20:48:20] Wicked: oh
[20:48:24] Wicked: cool.
[20:48:32] Dagmar: The FCC would haul them up by the short hairs
[20:48:35] Wicked: that was worrying me about buying it
[20:49:02] Dagmar: They _despise_ the "analog hole" because it means that people can buy PVRs that don't pay into the current monopoly group.
[20:49:04] Wicked: i was debating on either a hd pvr or a new video card.
[20:49:23] Wicked: right. money hungry jerks!
[20:49:55] Dagmar: ...but the FCC has forbidden them to disable component out because of all the people with HDTV sets that were made prior to HDCP getting sorted out
[20:50:24] Wicked: ah
[20:50:25] iamlindoro_: Wicked: need to read the HD-PVR article carefully
[20:50:29] Dagmar: The FCC explicitly does not want people to screw over the early adopters
[20:50:41] iamlindoro_: IT says they want to, and that they have in places in the UK, not that they can do it freely
[20:50:59] Dagmar: Now, this doesn't mean the MPAA aren't still trying to weasel out of it, but I think for now it's safe to say those will keep working at least another 4 years
[20:51:38] Wicked: ah. i just wanted to make sure if i bought it i would get a good amount of use out of it.
[20:51:47] Wicked: so i think im gonna get me one!
[20:51:53] Dagmar: ...and you, by buying an HD-PVR to do perfectly legal and reasonable things with your programming, are a perfect example of why they should never go back on that declaration.
[20:52:44] Wicked: also if i have this correct. hd pvr drivers are very much alpha and mythtv from svn has support for the hdpvr?
[20:52:58] Dagmar: Wicked: Right on both counts, but moreso on the second
[20:53:00] Wicked: and is there any big things that dont work yet....or that i should consider
[20:53:33] iamlindoro_: No IR, live TV is questionable, requires additional patching to use AC3
[20:53:55] iamlindoro_: still probably want to set your STB to a single-resolution output
[20:54:05] Wicked: ah no ir. i could use my old pvr ir still i think
[20:54:23] Wicked: hmm it wont work well under auto?
[20:54:47] iamlindoro_: Heh, you need to *really read* the HD-PVR article
[20:55:18] iamlindoro_: "Perhaps the largest "gotcha" currently with the HD-PVR in Myth is that the driver will crash when the resolution changes between channels. For this reason, whichever resolution the tuning device outputs *must* remain the same for the sake of stability."
[20:55:20] Wicked: ok. ill read all of it. i had skimmed it over a few mins ago
[20:55:46] iamlindoro_: It's *slightly* better than it used to be, but still want to be on a single resolution.
[20:56:06] Wicked: ah
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[21:11:13] Dagmar: Wicked: There's a lot of that skimming thing going on.
[21:11:28] Dagmar: Bad luck is, no one gets paid by the word-count on the wiki, so there's very little to no padding
[21:12:13] Dagmar: It's not really stuff you should feel the need to go into skim mode over, unless you want to miss stuff, 'cuz we don't want to waste time typing things no one needs to know
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[22:01:15] jarle: how do I restrict a title search to only match "apple" and not also "abapple" or "appleab"?
[22:01:34] kormoc: title = 'apple' ?
[22:02:32] jarle: kormoc: but I also want it to match tiles like "I love apple" "apple is good for you" etc...
[22:03:42] kormoc: WHERE title LIKE 'apple %' OR title LIKE '% apple %' OR title LIKE '% apple' would be the simpliest
[22:03:45] kormoc: or you can use a regex
[22:05:07] jarle: kormoc: a regex that would allow any char besides a-z on either side of the word would probably be what I'm looking for...
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[22:06:00] jarle: kormoc: so it would match "apple, the true story"
[22:06:25] jarle: but not "the apples"
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[22:07:55] kormoc: title REGEX '.*[^a-zA-Z]apple[^a-zA-Z].*' /may/ work
[22:08:00] kormoc: I'm rusty on mysql regexes
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[22:08:10] kormoc: you'll likely want to read the mysql manual where they deal with all this
[22:09:33] jarle: kormoc: thnx, I'll look into it..
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[22:25:01] rockhound: hi everyone ... after a system upgrade, I have the error of "Preview Error: Previewer file '/var/lib/mythtv/recordings/56601_20081219220901.mpg' is not valid." ... what does this indicate? the file itself exists.
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[22:32:36] aBs0lut30: got a quick question, does Myth support the ATI tuner cards?
[22:33:59] kormoc: Myth supports anything that follows a few specs. If it's supported by V4L (Video 4 linux), then yes, else not really
[22:36:42] iamlindoro_: ATI has a pretty spotty linux track record for tuners
[22:37:04] high-rez: s/ for tuners//g
[22:37:08] ** high-rez diucks **
[22:37:09] iamlindoro_: Where other companys use reference specs and chips that are outsources, ATI has created their own and not shared specs, so their linux support has been prety bad
[22:37:20] iamlindoro_: s/companys/companies/
[22:37:39] iamlindoro_: s/outsources/outsourced/, s/prety/pretty/
[22:37:43] iamlindoro_: sigh, I'm tired
[22:39:17] aBs0lut30: so, I should drop my two TVWonder 550 Pros :`( that makes me sad
[22:39:40] iamlindoro_: always worth a look at linuxtv.org, but pretty likely so
[22:41:55] iamlindoro_: Yep, there as a "not yet supported" device
[22:42:15] aBs0lut30: well that sux :(
[22:42:59] iamlindoro_: Hauppauge, FusionHDTV, BBTi, Technisat, etc. are all usually pretty well supported
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[22:43:29] iamlindoro_: but now at least you know where to look if you buy other cards
[22:43:44] aBs0lut30: yeah, just hate to rebuy and have 2 $100+/peice cards collecting dust
[22:44:23] iamlindoro_: You can buy $40 cards that will work just as nicely in linux
[22:44:54] aBs0lut30: well, when I rebuy I want to get up to HD so.... no $40 cards for me
[22:45:08] iamlindoro_: $40 = digital tuners, do HD fine
[22:45:41] aBs0lut30: unfortunately I need the component capture cause I have direcTV
[22:45:52] iamlindoro_: In that case, yeah, $183 from Dell,
[22:45:56] iamlindoro_: is the best price on the HD-PVR
[22:46:10] iamlindoro_: and you can probably find a coupon on top of that
[22:46:45] iamlindoro_: Ugh, dang, looks like their price went back up
[22:46:58] aBs0lut30: yeah, makes me cringe, also knowing that I really want to get some more storage up and running so I actually have a place to store my recordings, from what I understand thats about 9gb and hour at HD right?
[22:47:30] iamlindoro_: HD-PVR maxes out at 13.5 Mbit, so closer to 6 GB
[22:47:45] aBs0lut30: well a bit better than I was thinking
[22:47:51] iamlindoro_: and that's if you crank all the way up, you can use variable bitrate and it'll only crank up when necessary
[22:48:36] aBs0lut30: I just never have luck getting a cheap project to do ;) well anyway thanks for the info, time to fight the traffic getting home...
[22:48:45] iamlindoro_: Me too in a few, no problem
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[22:56:53] test1_: hello all can you help me to install nuvexport on opensuse 11 (having mythtv) any tuto, or link welcome
[22:57:16] Dagmar: *sigh*
[22:59:14] ** dustybin greps 23gigs worth of Dagmars packets **
[22:59:38] ** kormoc sighs **
[22:59:53] Dagmar: dustybin: So that would be about 2 month's worth
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[23:00:08] iamlindoro_: dustybin: One last time, google yourself what boundary packet sniffers work within
[23:00:14] Dagmar: i got a little worried about Comcast's 250Gb/month cap since I have a PS3 and all this other stuff.
[23:00:32] iamlindoro_: You might as well read his CD-ROM with your 3.5" floppy drive
[23:00:36] Dagmar: Turns out I use way, way less than I thought.
[23:00:37] kormoc: dustybin, why? Do you want the channel to consider you a idiot for some reason or is it entirely unintentional?
[23:01:15] Dagmar: See, you guys are worrying about broadcast domains and I'm thinking "yeah, I'm real scared of what output grep gives on binary data"
[23:01:57] Dagmar: 11.9Gb last month. Whoo I'm such a bandwidth hog
[23:02:28] iamlindoro_: that represents clever's anime downloads from today
[23:02:46] kormoc: that represents clever's disk space for a year
[23:02:52] clever: lol
[23:02:55] dustybin: jeeze you guys have no sense of humour :(
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[23:03:10] dustybin: Dagmar: http://www.packetfactory.net/projects/ngrep/
[23:03:47] Dagmar: dustybin: That URL really doesn't help you much, man.
[23:04:06] Dagmar: "ngrep has traditionally been used to debug plaintext protocol interactions [...]
[23:04:13] Dagmar: Emphasis on: plaintext
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[23:04:19] dustybin: oh ok
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[23:14:32] test1_: men.. i cant install nuvexport ..
[23:14:51] test1_: (on opensuse11)
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[23:23:54] devicenull: is there a plugin or addon that will automatically deal with USB drives that are plugged in?
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[23:26:09] kormoc: deal with them? like format them? eject them? backup files to them? toss random numbers on them?
[23:26:23] devicenull: add any media on them to my media library?
[23:26:43] kormoc: define media library? Music? Videos? Gallery? all? none?
[23:26:53] devicenull: videos/music
[23:27:23] kormoc: Music would require a manual scan on insert and removal
[23:27:46] kormoc: video you can use the live browser (file system browse mode) and get them that way, but no meta data I believe
[23:28:04] devicenull: live browser? I don't think I ever found that :D
[23:28:11] devicenull: let me find my remote and I'll go look for it
[23:28:24] kormoc: just set the video mode to 'file system' I think
[23:28:27] kormoc: or something similar
[23:29:43] devicenull: k
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[23:33:09] devicenull: course, finding my remote is proving difficult
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