Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, August 21st, 2008, 00:00 UTC

[00:00:30]

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[00:01:19]

massi:

i've found out this error:

[00:01:20]

massi:

2008-08–21 02:00:47.117 AudioOutput Error: Error opening audio device (Predefinita), the error was: Nessun file o directory

[00:03:30]

weevilofdoom:

specify an audio device that actually exists

[00:04:49]

massi:

from the audio menu in frontend?

[00:05:32]

weevilofdoom:

wherever you specify audio device to use

[00:05:44]

Dagmar:

Like explained in the documentation

[00:08:10]

weevilofdoom:

man, i know i had issues with it, but that one's an easy one ...

[00:08:14]

weevilofdoom:

c'mon

[00:08:22]

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[00:10:44]

massi:

uff i cant find nothin in wiki

[00:11:00]

weevilofdoom:

utilities/setup -> setup -> general settings

[00:11:07]

weevilofdoom:

there is audio device in there somewhere

[00:11:18]

massi:

wiki?

[00:11:27]

massi:

thx

[00:12:24]

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[00:12:24]

massi:

if i m not wrong i already read it when i run mythtv for the first time

[00:13:32]

weevilofdoom:

vic rattlehead disapproves

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[00:24:51]

massi:

i must restart after changing audio settings?

[00:25:02]

massi:

restart mythtv i mean

[00:28:50]

iamlindoro:

no

[00:30:50]

kormoc:

the frontend? doesn't hurt

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massi:

whatever audio source i select in frontend i ve got ever the same fucked error

[00:32:05]

massi:

with the same audio source's name

[00:32:36]

massi:

i select ALSA:analog but i ve got Error opening audio device (Predefinita)

[00:33:03]

massi:

"the error was: no such file or directory"

[00:33:44]

massi:

there is some configuration file somewhere?

[00:35:59]

kormoc:

do you have ALSA support compiled in?

[00:37:11]

massi:

how can I check it? I can manage audio mixer by using alsamixer commandline

[00:37:29]

kormoc:

what configure options did you use to compile it?

[00:37:45]

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[00:37:47]

porcodildo:

hi

[00:37:51]

massi:

it was already installed i m using ubuntu

[00:38:01]

porcodildo:

can I use the same setting of tvtime?

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[00:38:41]

massi:

porcodildo: for analog i ve already used them

[00:39:01]

porcodildo:

?

[00:39:10]

porcodildo:

massi, how?

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massi:

i put tvtime frequencies in channel editor in backend

[00:41:51]

porcodildo:

well i'm talking about my problem

[00:41:55]

massi:

any idea kormoc ?

[00:41:56]

porcodildo:

a have always a green screen

[00:42:08]

massi:

porcodildo: in tvtime?

[00:42:48]

porcodildo:

no in mythtv

[00:42:53]

porcodildo:

in tvtime is perfect

[00:43:32]

massi:

what kind of antenna are u using porcodildo ?

[00:44:16]

porcodildo:

well standard antenna

[00:45:02]

massi:

anyway try to put tvtime's frequencies on mythtv channel editor in backend

[00:45:17]

porcodildo:

the frequencies are correct

[00:45:22]

porcodildo:

it is some video option

[00:45:44]

massi:

i cant help u soory i m very noob

[00:46:45]

massi:

i m trying to get out my fucked audio troubles

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[00:47:44]

massi:

guy when i open up "watch tv" i ve got: "VP: Disabling Audio, params(-1,2,44100)"

[00:47:52]

massi:

what does it mean?

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[00:50:23]

kernel_ghost:

hi people.

[00:50:24]

kernel_ghost:

i have a strange issue, my dvb-t card is tuning channels, showing their names correctly, but when i try to watch tv, I get no lock, and in messages i see this http://paste.ubuntu.com/39250/

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[01:10:30]

inkynoob:

My TV's LCD is 1360x768, can I create a theme at that resolution or will that confuse MythTV? This site <http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Theme_development_guide> seems to say that MythTV expects a widescreen theme to be 1280x768.

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[01:17:17]

massi:

i realized I cant change audio output: no matter if I set alsa:default, /dev/ad or null – i ve ever got "AO, ERROR: Aborting reconfigure" in log and audio source remain "predefinita" – any ideas?

[01:17:30]

iamlindoro:

and that is correct. -wide themes must be 1280x720, and 4:3 must be 800x600

[01:18:40]

iamlindoro:

Which is to say no, you cannot use 1360x768. Use 1280x720 and myth will scale appropriately.

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[01:22:05]

chasep:

I was creating a dvd with mytharchive last night. It took like 3 or 4 hours to encode it, and then it failed when it tried to burn because mythtv wasnt in the cdrom group. I fixed that, but I'm curious if there is a way I can start back at the burning step, or do I have to do the encoding all over again?

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[01:24:05]

Glypo:

hello all

[01:24:19]

cesman:

heelo Glypo

[01:25:43]

Glypo:

after some great advice here last night i'm looking at a nova-s-plus to capture DVB-S. reading through mythtv documentation about CPU it mentions it depends on whether the card decodes or it's software, yet i can't see on the nova-s-plus page anything about decoding – so do i assume in this case it's a 'dumb' card and sftware has to decode?

[01:26:15]

iamlindoro:

Glypo, digital tuners (which DVB cards are) need no encoding of any kind, all of that is done at the broadcast source

[01:26:22]

iamlindoro:

digital tuners just dump the streams to the disk

[01:26:26]

inkynoob:

thanks iamlindoro

[01:26:36]

iamlindoro:

inkynoob, np

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[01:27:19]

cesman:

chasep: the ISO should be there in your filesystem

[01:27:26]

Glypo:

hello again iamlindoro – once again you are a fountain of knowledge – no wonder i couldn't find anything about the encoding!

[01:27:28]

cesman:

chasep: find it and just burn it

[01:27:36]

chasep:

cesman: I didn't tell it to make an iso, and I can't find one either

[01:27:45]

chasep:

I already started it over, no big deal

[01:27:49]

cesman:

oh....

[01:28:02]

iamlindoro:

Glypo, heh, thanks-- yep, digital tuners make it easy, they just tune and dump, and on top of that they tend to have the highest visual quality, so yay that!

[01:28:07]

chasep:

its for someone at work, so its not like I can give it to them till tomorrow morning anyway

[01:28:24]

Glypo:

i've been making my cpu choice today and that was the factor it stated on the documentation

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[01:28:32]

chasep:

and nothing, at least nothing important, is recording till tomorrow night, so I'll sacrifice the cpu

[01:29:18]

Glypo:

i'm looking at an AMD 64 X2 4450e 2.3GHz at the moment – cheap and only 45watts which will be important in my struggle for low noise :-) so hopefully this will suffice

[01:29:28]

chasep:

im also changing my recording profiles from 480x480 to 720x480 so in the future I hopefully wont need to re-encode

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[01:32:22]

roothorick:

maybe you guys can help with some general PC specs so I can extrapolate

[01:32:40]

roothorick:

first of all, will a frontend-only machine ever need more than 64MB of RAM?

[01:33:04]

cesman:

yes

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[01:33:21]

roothorick:

even if it's driving a display at 480p or lower?

[01:33:24]

craftyguy:

most certainly

[01:33:52]

Dagmar:

Good fucking luck finding a machine that shouldn't be in the dumpster that will take "only" 64Mb of RAM.

[01:34:05]

roothorick:

Dagmar: embedded platform (Nintendo Wii).

[01:34:19]

Dagmar:

roothorick: MythTV doesn't run on a Wii. Move along now.

[01:34:40]

roothorick:

I was gonna try porting it, but if it won't fit in the RAM I won't even bother

[01:34:44]

Dagmar:

The Nintendo Wii is also not a "general PC"

[01:34:58]

Dagmar:

Have fun getting the licence from Nintendo for that.

[01:35:00]

roothorick:

"so I can extrapolate"

[01:35:07]

roothorick:

Dagmar: ever heard of homebrew? And why are you so hostile?

[01:35:34]

Dagmar:

Not hostile.

[01:35:45]

wagnerrp:

i assume hes trying to prevent you from undergoing a task that can only end in tears

[01:35:58]

Glypo:

wii uses ppc doesn't it? so some madness could be attempted but unlikely it will work

[01:36:07]

Dagmar:

You, on the other hand, aren't actually doing anything but asking strangers questions you probably already know are unrealistic.

[01:36:26]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp++

[01:36:33]

Dagmar:

He says it nicer.

[01:36:42]

Dagmar:

The Wii isn't even remotely suited for this

[01:36:47]

Dagmar:

I've got one.

[01:36:48]

Dagmar:

I know.

[01:37:00]

Glypo:

i won't argue that for sure – i agree

[01:37:04]

roothorick:

hey, it was worth investigating

[01:37:34]

roothorick:

and then there's the guy that got full retail Quake 1 to run on the DS... it's not completely unrealistic

[01:37:55]

wagnerrp:

basically, there are already plenty of upnp/480i capable devices

[01:37:57]

Dagmar:

The DS almost has as much power as the Wii.

[01:37:59]

Glypo:

it's not a bad idea though, for an idea for a frontend would be small and has no real work to do.... but would be so hard going about it

[01:38:14]

wagnerrp:

such that its not really worth the effort to make one that will only run on a hacked wii

[01:38:32]

roothorick:

hm, true

[01:38:35]

Dagmar:

That you're equating physical size with capability is another warning sign

[01:38:36]

dustybin:

i think i might sell this macbook pro and get a thinkpad instead

[01:38:39]

roothorick:

what should I use for a frontend then?

[01:38:56]

Dagmar:

Spend $500 on a simple mini-ATX setup.

[01:38:58]

Glypo:

i'm making my own pc

[01:39:10]

roothorick:

Dagmar: I was actually talking more in the factor of RAM. DS has only 4MB RAM, and Quake expects 8–12MB.

[01:39:10]

Dagmar:

...or get second hand parts and aim for about $350.

[01:39:15]

dustybin:

roothorick: will the frontend be for watching HD

[01:39:25]

roothorick:

dustybin: not anytime soon but it's good to look ahead

[01:39:26]

dustybin:

or SDTV

[01:40:04]

Glypo:

nice energy efficient cpu for £40, smart media looking mATX case for £50, a little ram and nice quiet harddrive and you're onto a full system for under £300 :-)

[01:40:23]

wagnerrp:

for a small frontend, you may actually want to look at how compatible linux is with the Atom and A64 2000+ systems

[01:40:27]

dustybin:

roothorick: im going to use one of these for a SDTV frontend for now: http://i19.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e7/ae/3d92_1_b.JPG

[01:40:34]

wagnerrp:

both can be had for <$100

[01:40:43]

Dagmar:

Just odn't try HD content on them

[01:40:46]

roothorick:

Glypo: I'd rather buy a proprietary set-top solution for much less and use my Wii and maybe an Xbox 360 for everything else

[01:41:07]

Glypo:

you can get ITX mobo with Atom built in cheap – theya re tiny

[01:41:26]

Glypo:

fair enough

[01:41:27]

dustybin:

im going to spend £50 on my frontend box

[01:41:42]

roothorick:

dustybin: and what exactly am I looking at?

[01:41:42]

Glypo:

roothorick – have you tried window mce?

[01:41:55]

dustybin:

roothorick: thats my future frontend box

[01:42:16]

Dagmar:

There's a large degree to which the more money you throw at this, the more useful the machine will be.

[01:42:25]

Dagmar:

...and the curve is very shallow on it.

[01:42:29]

Glypo:

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=92480 – this is my front end box soon – ideal imo

[01:42:29]

roothorick:

Glypo: it has very similar requirements — namely, a PC that can run it.

[01:42:38]

roothorick:

but come to think of it

[01:42:42]

Dagmar:

So, like, $750 would pretty much qualify as "high end"

[01:42:46]

roothorick:

I may just have an old Dell that's up to the task

[01:42:49]

Glypo:

roothorick – 360 can act as an extender

[01:43:01]

roothorick:

only for SD, but hey, better than nothnig

[01:43:11]

Dagmar:

Glypo: LOL that's the same one I've got

[01:43:11]

roothorick:

it's not like I own an HDTV yet anyway

[01:43:13]

wagnerrp:

Glypo: not really

[01:43:25]

Dagmar:

The lack of a big-ass volume knob on the front was refreshing

[01:43:39]

wagnerrp:

the 360 cannot handle mpeg2 or nuv files, so its next to worthless for mythtv

[01:43:44]

Dagmar:

roothorick: Ah then score some Atom box

[01:44:03]

roothorick:

damn. Complication — slim PCI only

[01:44:04]

Glypo:

Dagmar – is it good? i've not ordered yet so would be nice to know. i've read only good things

[01:44:08]

Dagmar:

...or check for a Craigslist specific to your area.

[01:44:14]

dustybin:

Dagmar: do you have any sun sparc hardware laying around?

[01:44:22]

Dagmar:

Glypo: I keep hearing they've got "just barely" the power needed for SD playback

[01:44:27]

Dagmar:

So, that should work fine

[01:44:39]

roothorick:

waiiiiit

[01:44:42]

roothorick:

that's an AGP slot there

[01:45:00]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Well, there's some here at work, but I don't own any

[01:45:07]

Glypo:

wagnerrp – i was talking about roothorick perhaps using vista with 360, rather than myth

[01:45:13]

inkynoob:

Does anyone know how to make the "MUSIC_PLAY" command work on the main menu? I'm editing a theme, but it's not working

[01:45:28]

Glypo:

if the 360 is there – would make an easy solution

[01:45:30]

Dagmar:

The one good thing I can say about Sun hardware is that it's the next best thing to buying freshly made zombies.

[01:45:43]

dustybin:

LOL

[01:45:52]

Dagmar:

By the time you're ready to gid rid of the thing, it'll still be running, and everyone will say "Jesus, this thing hasn't died yet?"

[01:46:13]

Dagmar:

We're still in the process of getting rid of our last sparc 2 servers

[01:46:43]

dustybin:

ive never touched solaris, am tempted to test out open-solaris but that only runs on x86 platform

[01:46:50]

Dagmar:

My last comment to them about that was "You know my PDA has more power than this thing now, and doesn't take up nearly the room on a rack shelf this does."

[01:46:52]

Glypo:

right it's nearly 3am so i must disappear. thanks again for your help!

[01:47:12]

dustybin:

lol

[01:47:15]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Basically you're not missing much, excepting the consoles

[01:47:20]

dustybin:

ok

[01:47:33]

Dagmar:

The consoles on sun hardware, and I'm not talking about mouse/keyboard/CRT but the serial/ethernet management consoles... are PIMP

[01:47:37]

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[01:47:59]

Dagmar:

No matter how stuffed up the OS gets, you can always connect to the console, stab the thing in the brain and reset it

[01:48:01]

dustybin:

aye interesting, im sure 'clever' would be interested

[01:48:20]

dustybin:

clever: are you here

[01:48:36]

Dagmar:

This means you can do things up to and including inputting a command that will cause the machine to netboot the next time and go grab a complete disk/installation image from the jumpstart server

[01:49:10]

dustybin:

how does the BIOS know where the networked image is?

[01:49:13]

Dagmar:

You can also dump the current image out for forensics purposes

[01:49:22]

Dagmar:

dustybin: The command yer inputting tells it

[01:49:27]

dustybin:

ok

[01:49:33]

Dagmar:

Literally the BIOS has it's own little teeny OS thing going on

[01:49:47]

dustybin:

Dagmar: is this the same as netbooting a frontend

[01:49:52]

dustybin:

you cant just turn it on in the bios

[01:49:54]

Dagmar:

Pretty much the same deal yah

[01:50:09]

dustybin:

the netboot machine still needs to boot?

[01:50:14]

dustybin:

but with what?

[01:50:19]

Dagmar:

Eh wot?

[01:50:31]

Dagmar:

Oh, outside of the x86 world, netbooting is common.

[01:50:35]

dustybin:

i dunno, i need to figure out how net booting works

[01:50:44]

Dagmar:

Remember, SUN is an acronym.

[01:50:48]

dustybin:

yep

[01:51:07]

Dagmar:

Basically, they're more Apple than Apple when it comes to "You buy a machine, and you get X, Y, and Z in it and NO CLONES"

[01:51:13]

wagnerrp:

typically with a netboot, your dhcp server tells the computer where to grab a boot image, that boot image then pulls the full system image

[01:51:16]

dustybin:

nice mini-itx case, shame about the price tag

[01:51:17]

dustybin:

http://www2.multithread.co.uk/mtcshop/images/ . . . ase_main.jpg

[01:51:25]

Dagmar:

So the bios has drivers for the NIC and video and all that jazz

[01:51:35]

wagnerrp:

with the sun, you can tell it where the system image exists directly in the BIOS

[01:51:46]

wagnerrp:

and bypass all the dhcp shit

[01:51:48]

dustybin:

ok

[01:51:57]

Dagmar:

I dunno about bypassing the DHCP shit

[01:52:04]

Dagmar:

DHCP and BOOTP are pretty closely related

[01:52:16]

Dagmar:

I mean yeah it's not doing a DHCP query, but the same stsuff is happening

[01:52:26]

Dagmar:

...it's just jumping straight to TFTP

[01:52:54]

dustybin:

when you netboot a normal frontend, do you need to boot it via a usb stick, then that boots and tells the computer where to find the main system image over the network?

[01:53:05]

wagnerrp:

right, all dhcp/bootp does is tell the system where the tftp server is (and possibly tell it where the nfs root is)

[01:53:41]

Dagmar:

dustyin: Dpeends on whether or not your motherboard has pxe/netboot caps

[01:53:52]

Dagmar:

SOME x86 boards have it built in

[01:53:57]

Dagmar:

It's becoming more common.

[01:53:57]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: typically, the BIOS boots off the NIC

[01:54:32]

Dagmar:

I've got a couple machines in my house that don't need anything but someone prodding them in the right spot in the BIOS to start booting off hte network with no disks of any kind.

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[01:54:47]

wagnerrp:

you have a basic loadable rom on the network card, that knows how to poll dhcp/bootp and forward onto the next step

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[01:55:02]

roothorick:

looks like this Dell has a slim AGP slot

[01:55:09]

Dagmar:

Mean old opers

[01:55:10]

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[01:55:21]

Dagmar:

As I was saying before they booted people, I've got a couple machines in my house that don't need anything but someone prodding them in the right spot in the BIOS to start booting off hte network with no disks of any kind.

[01:55:33]

dustybin:

when you say boot off the network, how does the computer know where to look?

[01:55:41]

Dagmar:

dustybin: It doens't.

[01:55:45]

Dagmar:

It's basically a broadcast query.

[01:55:46]

dustybin:

:o

[01:55:46]

wagnerrp:

my frontend/backend and two machines sitting next to me require no boot disk of any sort

[01:55:56]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Quickest responder wins, too. ;)

[01:55:59]

dustybin:

Dagmar: does that mean your LAN is insecure

[01:56:01]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: thats the purpose of dhcp/bootp

[01:56:05]

dustybin:

anyone could do the netboot

[01:56:14]

Dagmar:

Hence, We Do Not Use BOOTP On An Unrestricted Broadcast Segment.

[01:56:25]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: if you can preempt the server, yes you can

[01:56:39]

wagnerrp:

you just have to get your response in before the official server does

[01:56:40]

dustybin:

hmm

[01:56:54]

dustybin:

dodgy

[01:57:06]

Dagmar:

Considering that usually bootp servers tend to be old, leftover stuff, it's generally not too hard to win the race against them

[01:57:25]

Dagmar:

Not exactly dodgy

[01:57:37]

Dagmar:

...just not something anyone in their right mind is going to do at a LAN party.

[01:58:02]

Dagmar:

If yer usin' bootp, it's pretty much a given that ONLY your equipment is going to be connected to that broadcast segment.

[01:58:02]

dustybin:

hehe

[01:58:19]

dustybin:

ok

[01:58:31]

Dagmar:

By the way, some little ricers like to leave PXEboot enabled in their BIOS because it looks very technical when they boot up

[01:59:01]

dustybin:

aye interesting

[01:59:03]

Dagmar:

So, only a very bad, bad naughty person would EVER create a bootp server setup loaded with a DBAN image.

[01:59:32]

Dagmar:

...especially knowing how fast DBAN works.

[01:59:42]

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[01:59:49]

iamlindoro:

You'

[01:59:52]

wagnerrp:

computer 'ricers'? i dont think ive heard that term used towards computer geeks before

[01:59:58]

Dagmar:

wut?

[02:00:03]

Dagmar:

google "Gentoo is rice"

[02:00:04]

iamlindoro:

er You'd better hope for some poor sap's sake that clever didn't read that

[02:00:39]

dustybin:

http://www.funroll-loops.info/

[02:00:55]

Dagmar:

Nah, I actually suspect he'd be more likely to accientally erase one of his own machines than to deliberately do something like that

[02:01:11]

Dagmar:

'cuz that would be really evil.

[02:01:21]

** Dagmar whistles innocently. **

[02:01:34]

Dagmar:

I'll let you know after PhreakNIC if I catch anyone.

[02:01:40]

iamlindoro:

Some of those quotes are priceless

[02:01:42]

dustybin:

lol

[02:03:55]

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[02:05:11]

iamlindoro:

I like all the senseless angst aimed at Debian

[02:06:32]

dustybin:

Dagmar: http://kentie.net/article/netvista/index.htm

[02:06:37]

iamlindoro:

"As a Gentoo user what really stands out to me is that this test was clearly biased away from Linux. If the reviewers had been serious they would have used an optimised distributions such as Gentoo, which would have taken far fuller advantage of the extra 32bits in each register to provide a much fuller experience, more than any current Linux distribution possibly could. It really saddens me to see that people go out of thei

[02:06:38]

iamlindoro:

r way to spend so much money on such expensive hardware and then squander their investment by running barely suitable software on it. To me, an extra 0.1% performance increase, even if I am only imagining it to be faster, is certainly worth one day a week recompiling all of the latest packages from source code. Even if I do occasionally get my CFLAGS in a muddle! I think I speak for Slashdot when I say that Gentoo is the onl

[02:06:39]

iamlindoro:

y sane option for getting the most from your hardware!"

[02:06:48]

iamlindoro:

holy cow, that didn't seem that long before-- sorry folks.

[02:07:39]

iamlindoro:

"far fuller advantage of the extra 32 bits...." Priceless.

[02:07:59]

iamlindoro:

The bits aren't like trucks, they're like a series of tubes.

[02:08:57]

mishehu:

what happens if you want your tubes to be ipv6?

[02:09:10]

iamlindoro:

emerge ipv6

[02:09:22]

iamlindoro:

it's soooo l33t

[02:09:32]

mishehu:

yeah, helps if the backbone providers support it on the wire instead of 6 in 4 tunnels...

[02:11:16]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Acutally what I'm about to (stop spanking around with and actually) deploy tomorrow at home is a NetVista X41, which has a screen and so forth as well

[02:11:45]

Dagmar:

Cost me all of $75.

[02:12:50]

dustybin:

yep i remember you saying, nice

[02:13:38]

Dagmar:

Somewhere around here that guy is basically getting rid of zero-value corporate assets this way

[02:13:41]

dustybin:

ive never had a proper firewall at home before, id like to run m0n0wall or pfsense

[02:13:53]

dustybin:

jeeze

[02:13:59]

dustybin:

Dagmar: craigs list?

[02:14:22]

Dagmar:

I'm tempted to send him another email and tell him if he has any of those things on him come late October that he should talk to my guy Dolemite about paying the pittance for a vendor table at PN.

[02:14:35]

Dagmar:

I"m damn sure he could sell 15–20 boxes like that at a hacker con easily

[02:14:44]

dustybin:

lol yes

[02:15:03]

dustybin:

Dagmar: are you going to give your old firewall to some poor hacker?

[02:15:10]

Dagmar:

THinkin' about it yeah

[02:15:14]

dustybin:

hehee

[02:15:28]

Dagmar:

I don't want to throw it in a dumpster, and I've no need for anything that's in it anymore

[02:15:41]

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[02:16:47]

dustybin:

mini-itx cases are pricey

[02:16:54]

dustybin:

and so are the mobos

[02:16:56]

Dagmar:

For obvious reasons, Linux tends to attract people who have exactly zero spare budget money

[02:17:03]

dustybin:

lol

[02:17:29]

Dagmar:

I've been there before myself.

[02:19:27]

** dustybin imagines a lot of richard stallman types **

[02:19:58]

** iamlindoro imagines bringing beard clippers and handcuffs **

[02:20:05]

iamlindoro:

and lots of BAN roll-on

[02:20:36]

dustybin:

all computer people love beer

[02:20:59]

dustybin:

ive seen pictures of hack parties and there is beer everywhere

[02:21:21]

iamlindoro:

Their love for beer is balanced only by their sheer terror of showers

[02:21:28]

dustybin:

LOL

[02:22:07]

dustybin:

they probably havent socialized for months + years, so beer is required to steady nerves

[02:22:55]

tank-man:

i dont drink beer

[02:30:10]

roothorick:

I have here a 1Ghz PIII, 256MB SDRAM, will add a GeForce FX5200 and a 10GB hard drive later... will this make a good frontend?

[02:30:30]

dustybin:

SD frontend, yes

[02:30:35]

dustybin:

maybe more ram

[02:30:39]

dustybin:

512

[02:30:49]

roothorick:

it's gonna be frontend only

[02:31:05]

dustybin:

think you will need another 256 inside it because of themes

[02:31:06]

roothorick:

I have yet to figure out where/what the backend will be but I have a 1Ghz Athlon that's returning to my possession tonight

[02:31:35]

dustybin:

thats enough for a backend

[02:31:41]

dustybin:

backends can go low as 500mhz

[02:31:51]

roothorick:

I have a frame grabber...

[02:31:55]

Dagmar:

...provided you are not using a framebuffer card.

[02:32:02]

dustybin:

:`P

[02:32:31]

dustybin:

after reading this

[02:32:35]

dustybin:

"I don't have the experience with that exact setup but I would guess

[02:32:35]

dustybin:

no. I had to go from a 2.4 to 2.8HT processor in my Pundit to do 480p

[02:32:37]

dustybin:

reliably. Although that was through a PCI video card."

[02:32:54]

dustybin:

are PCI graphic cards a problem?

[02:32:55]

Dagmar:

I don't think the PCI bus is hte problem

[02:33:10]

Dagmar:

480p will go to a PCI card without issue

[02:33:16]

dustybin:

ok

[02:33:23]

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[02:33:24]

roothorick:

1080p, you need at least AGP

[02:33:32]

roothorick:

but 480p is fine over PCI

[02:33:50]

dustybin:

roothorick: have you used PCI

[02:33:53]

dustybin:

graphics

[02:33:57]

roothorick:

I have in the past

[02:34:00]

roothorick:

and I know the bandwidth

[02:34:04]

PatrickDK:

what processor should I be looking at for a backend to do mythweb video streaming?

[02:34:05]

dustybin:

aye ok

[02:34:14]

roothorick:

you need to be able to get unencrypted frames over the bus, and 1080p frames over PCI isn't gonna happen

[02:34:26]

dustybin:

ok

[02:34:31]

Dagmar:

s/unencrypted/uncompressed/;

[02:34:35]

roothorick:

maybe at 5fps, but not at brodcast speeds

[02:34:35]

PatrickDK:

you can't even do 1080i over pci

[02:34:40]

roothorick:

Dagmar: thanks for typo correction

[02:34:45]

Dagmar:

no problem

[02:36:11]

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[02:37:00]

dustybin:

i know you need a fast processor for h.264 HD, what is the minimum spec CPU for mpeg-2 HD?

[02:37:05]

dustybin:

3.0ghz ?

[02:37:32]

iamlindoro:

not even close--- a 2.5ish Ghz P4 or a low end Core 2 Duo is more than enough

[02:38:02]

dustybin:

i rememeber before i built my backend, h.264 wasnt much heard of and i built it thinking it would be HD ready

[02:38:24]

roothorick:

YES, that IS an AGP slot

[02:38:25]

roothorick:

awesome

[02:39:02]

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[02:39:14]

dustybin:

im a bit paranoid about PCI graphic card, even for just SDTV

[02:39:47]

dustybin:

theres something wrong about it.... and that could mean i wasted my cash on a worthless sd frontend

[02:39:58]

roothorick:

don't worry

[02:40:01]

roothorick:

SD will make it fly

[02:40:25]

roothorick:

if you're that worried about it, AGP cards aren't much more

[02:40:26]

dustybin:

or make it jitter

[02:40:37]

dustybin:

roothorick: the box i want only has 1x PCI slot

[02:42:20]

** dustybin READS **

[02:42:21]

dustybin:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/PCI_Latency

[02:50:23]

dustybin:

i cannot see any hard evidence that there should be a problem with PCI graphics + SDTV

[02:50:38]

dustybin:

hopefully my special modelines will work ok still

[02:51:12]

dustybin:

hopefully it will act the same as it would if it was in a AGP slot

[02:51:26]

iamlindoro:

there is no reason whatsoever PCI graphics would be a problem for SDTV

[02:51:37]

iamlindoro:

and, in fact, special secret, 1080i is possible on PCI

[02:51:51]

iamlindoro:

just as long as we're talking about 66 Mhz PCI

[02:51:58]

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[02:52:38]

dustybin:

ok

[02:55:10]

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[03:32:16]

inkynoob:

Does anyone know how to get a "Browse Videos" button in the main menu?

[03:32:29]

inkynoob:

I'm editing a theme, and want to be able to jump right to the browse view

[03:39:46]

iamlindoro:

mainmenu.xml

[03:46:43]

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[03:54:38]

andyman53:

Hey guys

[03:54:54]

andyman53:

what do you use to remotely control mythtv besides an irblaster and x11vnc

[03:55:08]

andyman53:

is there a way to pass keystrokes from console (eg an ssh session?)

[03:55:17]

wagnerrp:

you can control the frontend over telnet

[03:55:25]

andyman53:

i can?

[03:55:30]

wagnerrp:

uh huh

[03:55:39]

andyman53:

how?

[03:56:07]

wagnerrp:

you telnet in, and then just pass keystrokes from the console

[03:56:15]

andyman53:

mhmm

[03:56:53]

iamlindoro:

he's being serious-- you enable the telnet controls on each frontend, and telnet into the right port, and there's a nice littl emenu and everything

[03:56:54]

tank-man:

and enable the option fron settings

[03:57:09]

andyman53:

i see

[03:57:12]

andyman53:

i didn't doubt him

[03:57:18]

andyman53:

but its just that i'm logged in ssh now

[03:57:26]

andyman53:

so i was a bit confused

[03:57:56]

wagnerrp:

well ssh logs you into the linux terminal, the telnet interface is direct access to the frontend

[03:58:02]

andyman53:

i see

[03:58:09]

andyman53:

i have to enable that in mythtv-setup though right?

[03:58:15]

iamlindoro:

and as tank-man mentioned, you need to turn it on on each frontend

[03:58:20]

andyman53:

ok

[03:58:21]

iamlindoro:

nope, mythfrontend

[03:58:22]

wagnerrp:

i have no idea how to use it (mainly because ive never looked into it), but i know mythweb uses it for its remote keyboard

[03:58:31]

andyman53:

i see

[03:58:54]

andyman53:

i'm also getting an error message about mytharchive not being able to find its work directory...

[03:58:57]

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[04:03:20]

iamlindoro:

anyone notice that their local cable provider has cranked the NBC bitrate WAY the hell up for the Olympics? It's been consistently 7 GB/hour this laste few weeks. It's nice to see that for once :)

[04:03:49]

Dagmar:

NBC is greedy, not stupid.

[04:04:28]

iamlindoro:

I have a feeling they leaned on the cable cos to have their engineers crank it for these few weeks

[04:05:04]

iamlindoro:

reminds you what a dog MPEG-2 is when even at those bitrates the high-motion stuff still looks like poop

[04:05:08]

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[04:14:09]

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[04:14:12]

andyman53:

what's that error message

[04:14:19]

andyman53:

mytharchive cannot find work directory

[04:14:52]

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[04:15:07]

iamlindoro:

it means it can't find the directory you have set for it to work in *eyeroll*

[04:15:22]

andyman53:

where is that setting

[04:15:25]

andyman53:

i can't find it in mythtv-setup

[04:15:29]

iamlindoro:

Try looking in the Mytharchive settings, and confirm that all the directories there exist and have proper permissions

[04:15:58]

iamlindoro:

because all plugin settings are in mythfrontend...

[04:16:02]

andyman53:

i see

[04:16:04]

andyman53:

found it

[04:17:32]

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[04:17:46]

andyman53:

and when i telnet to the port set in mythfrontend

[04:17:50]

andyman53:

putty exits automatically

[04:18:20]

iamlindoro:

you don't need putty, just use telnet from a command line

[04:18:24]

andyman53:

ok

[04:20:00]

andyman53:

"press any key to continue"

[04:20:01]

andyman53:

then nothing

[04:20:25]

iamlindoro:

you are doing something wrong

[04:20:43]

andyman53:

i'm using telnet from windows

[04:20:50]

wagnerrp:

default is port 6544?

[04:20:53]

andyman53:

connecting to the right port

[04:20:57]

andyman53:

6546

[04:20:59]

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[04:21:02]

andyman53:

and i changed it to 6547

[04:21:02]

iamlindoro:

6546

[04:21:14]

iamlindoro:

why?

[04:21:21]

andyman53:

i tried both

[04:21:26]

wagnerrp:

putty works just fine for me

[04:21:37]

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[04:21:54]

iamlindoro:

and telnet from any of my machines works fine for me-- you've done something to mess with it

[04:22:04]

iamlindoro:

arbitrarily changing ports is a great start

[04:22:14]

andyman53:

well its back to 6546 now

[04:22:24]

iamlindoro:

I would start by trying to connect from the frontend itself, ie "telnet localhost 6546"

[04:22:39]

andyman53:

i got it working

[04:22:40]

andyman53:

there we go

[04:22:58]

iamlindoro:

and the answer was....?

[04:23:06]

andyman53:

i set the port back

[04:23:09]

andyman53:

and i'm using telnet in windows

[04:23:54]

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[04:26:48]

Anusien:

So for UPnP, I just changed the MythTV general config to have the local IP as the IP address, and there is a route out of the network (I think). Any other reasons why Nero Showtime might not find it?

[04:27:15]

iamlindoro:

Is the 360 finding it now?

[04:27:30]

Anusien:

I haven't tried yet, but if Showtime can't find it, it's unlikely the Xbox can

[04:27:46]

iamlindoro:

Not so

[04:27:47]

Anusien:

trying now...

[04:27:55]

iamlindoro:

myth works with many upnp clients, but not all

[04:28:03]

iamlindoro:

so much for the "u"

[04:28:11]

Anusien:

yeah, it still sees the old upnp server I used to have

[04:28:20]

Anusien:

also, I believe it's known to work with nero

[04:28:36]

iamlindoro:

Greyfoxx would be the person to ask, if he's around

[04:28:53]

iamlindoro:

or Cardoe, but he's never here

[04:29:28]

Anusien:

as an aside, how do I check if the defualt install put a firewall on?

[04:29:53]

iamlindoro:

default install of what? That's a question for #$YourDistro

[04:30:09]

Anusien:

fair

[04:30:35]

iamlindoro:

think the *doras put on SELinux by default, but not sure

[04:30:49]

iamlindoro:

the *buntus mostly leave stuff operational

[04:31:18]

Anusien:

it's mythbuntu, so I'm asking. The Xbox is suggesting to open ports, and it made me think

[04:31:23]

iamlindoro:

And if you're using any myth specific distro, there's virtually no chance of any of the relevant ports being blocked

[04:31:50]

iamlindoro:

you can ask in #ubuntu-mythtv, but I would drop dead of shock if they blocked uPnP by default

[04:32:30]

Anusien:

So would I. But like, MythMusic has audio, all the items are on the same subnet, it has the right IP address. Running out of things to tr

[04:33:58]

Anusien:

Iptables is intstalled; could that be dropping upnp packets?

[04:34:30]

iamlindoro:

shouldn't be

[04:34:42]

Dagmar:

Can't.

[04:34:49]

Dagmar:

iptables won't do a thing you didn't tell it to.

[04:35:02]

Dagmar:

That you don't know about what it's doing is generally a sign it ain't involved.

[04:35:47]

Anusien:

LIke, I know iptables is really powerful, and I'm really bad at networking, so I ain't touching it

[04:35:49]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Has the subject of the multicast route been approached yet?

[04:36:10]

Dagmar:

Anusien: Note. Iptables is just a binary for manipulating netfilter rules.

[04:36:20]

Dagmar:

Netfilter is what's doing the firewalling stuff, and it's in-kernel.

[04:36:25]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar, yeah, think they had him put in a route this afternoon

[04:36:29]

Dagmar:

It's default is to not give a crap;

[04:36:41]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Okay, might be the same "just doesn't @#$@ work" issue I've had

[04:36:51]

Dagmar:

I've not gotten home to see if adding the multicast route changed aything

[04:37:08]

iamlindoro:

uPnP doesn't do anything for me, so I've never really done more than play with it

[04:37:14]

Anusien:

Dagmar: More evidence on the side of "I'm too smart to fuck with netfilter!"

[04:37:38]

Dagmar:

anusian: If you have a DIFFERENT box, you *might* do some simple tests with something called MediaTomb

[04:38:14]

Anusien:

Is that a linux or windows tool?

[04:38:18]

Dagmar:

It's low-tech as all hell, and not very functional, BUT, even in my case where my PS3 doesn't seem to be able to elicit a response from MythTV, my MtyhTV box *will* respond to probes/queries from MediaTomb.

[04:38:19]

Dagmar:

Go figure.

[04:38:25]

wagnerrp:

linux uPnP server

[04:38:31]

Dagmar:

http://mediatomb.cc/pages/download

[04:38:33]

Anusien:

I have a seperate windows machine or two, not linux

[04:38:47]

wagnerrp:

but you have a linux machine running mythtv

[04:38:49]

wagnerrp:

just use that one

[04:38:49]

Anusien:

Also as an aside, mythtv can't play my video! but it can find it, so maybe that'll change things

[04:39:06]

Anusien:

wagnerrp: [23:37] <Dagmar> anusian: If you have a DIFFERENT box

[04:39:13]

Dagmar:

Heck, see if you can coax a trial download out of http://upnp.hilisoft.com/ then

[04:39:31]

Anusien:

Dagmar: I previously had a TVersity server running on this network

[04:39:35]

wagnerrp:

ah, sorry... not really paying close attention

[04:39:48]

Dagmar:

No idea what that uis

[04:40:05]

wagnerrp:

tversity is a upnp server for windows

[04:40:06]

Anusien:

It's a windows based UPnP server

[04:40:18]

Dagmar:

Well, that much I could guess.

[04:40:20]

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[04:40:34]

Anusien:

Incidentally, how do I kill the front-end? I told it to play a video, and it's playing audio, but not video, and ESC won't stop 'playback'

[04:40:44]

Anusien:

Is just killing it fine?

[04:40:50]

Dagmar:

CTRL-ALT-BKSP kills X just fine.

[04:40:51]

wagnerrp:

complete with (relatively) fancy GUIs and transcoding

[04:41:25]

Anusien:

I can keep using it by switching to another desktop

[04:41:56]

Dagmar:

Then open a terminal and run `killall mythfrontend` and if that doesn't work, `killall -9 mythfrontend`.

[04:42:04]

Anusien:

killed that and mplayer and I have my machine back

[04:42:10]

Dagmar:

If the latter won't stop it, rebooting is the sole option remaining.

[04:42:17]

Anusien:

anyway, one suggestion was to load up ethereal and run some traces. any other ideas?

[04:42:38]

wagnerrp:

so it wasnt mythfrontend that was not responding, but rather mplayer?

[04:42:40]

Dagmar:

Unless you know the uPnP protocol, Ethereal isn't going to be of much help.

[04:42:53]

Dagmar:

Running things with "-v upnp" appended says about as much as needs to be said.

[04:43:02]

Anusien:

huh?

[04:43:13]

Anusien:

wagnerrp: Apparently. SInce I killed the frontend and the 'video' kept playing...

[04:43:13]

Dagmar:

Do you speak Romanian?

[04:43:31]

Anusien:

negative

[04:43:46]

Dagmar:

Okay, so if you had a tool that translated spoken Romanian to text, would it be any use to you?

[04:44:07]

Dagmar:

...and the next question from there is "Do you speak uPnP?"

[04:44:09]

Anusien:

to romanian text? No

[04:44:13]

Anusien:

:P

[04:44:27]

Anusien:

so try loading another upnp server then?

[04:44:58]

Dagmar:

No this is to illustrate why etherreal prolly isn't going to help much

[04:45:00]

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[04:45:04]

AlsMe:

hello people

[04:45:16]

AlsMe:

how is everyone doing?

[04:45:23]

Anusien:

Pretty shitty, you?

[04:45:28]

wagnerrp:

nevermind the fact that ethereal no longer exists

[04:45:28]

AlsMe:

just pissed

[04:45:35]

Dagmar:

Running `myhtfrontend -v upnp` and/or starting the backend with those options will log stuff that's a bit more human-readable, as well as let you know exactly what of Myth is seeing what

[04:45:45]

Anusien:

ah

[04:45:50]

AlsMe:

you?

[04:45:53]

AlsMe:

why so shitty

[04:45:55]

Anusien:

wagnerrp: Well, it went through a change, but the tool still exists

[04:45:59]

Anusien:

Life

[04:46:21]

AlsMe:

meh

[04:47:37]

AlsMe:

does anyone know if the HD-PVR from Hauppauge works with mythtv yet?

[04:47:58]

wagnerrp:

0.21-fixes, no. trunk, ... kind of...

[04:48:22]

wagnerrp:

trunk has alpha-quality support for it

[04:48:26]

AlsMe:

ohh

[04:48:29]

AlsMe:

not cool

[04:48:41]

wagnerrp:

IIRC, there is no IR support for it

[04:48:57]

wagnerrp:

and if the source changes resolution, the driver crashes

[04:48:58]

Dagmar:

Pfft.

[04:49:09]

wagnerrp:

besides that, it works decently well

[04:49:13]

Dagmar:

Ship me one of the remotes for it and I'll code in LIRC profiles

[04:49:21]

Dagmar:

s/in/up/;

[04:49:51]

Dagmar:

...although I'd be suprised if it wasn't using the same profile as the other Hauppauge stuff

[04:50:07]

iamlindoro:

wagnerrp, res change is now fixed

[04:50:09]

wagnerrp:

i believe the remote is the same, its the receiver itself that doesnt have drivers written

[04:50:11]

Anusien:

Damgar: You've given me some avenues to approach!

[04:50:19]

AlsMe:

alright thanks

[04:50:38]

AlsMe:

I'll just use SageTv till its fully working

[04:50:41]

Dagmar:

Anusien: TBH I'd rather have a _fix_ to tell you, but the damn thing refuses to do uPnP for me at the moment as well

[04:50:56]

Dagmar:

I likes me PS3 and PSP.

[04:51:02]

iamlindoro:

AlsMe, officially speaking, that will be when .22 comes out

[04:51:08]

iamlindoro:

so you can just be on the lookout for that

[04:51:30]

Dagmar:

I would rather like to be able to use Remote Play (or try to anyway) to watch stuff off the MythTV box on the PSP through the PS3.

[04:51:36]

Anusien:

Dagmar: These look interesting from the logs 2008-08–20 23:47:42.362 MonitorRegisterExtensions(0x40, ogg,mp3,aac,flac)

[04:51:37]

Anusien:

SIP listening on IP Address 192.168.37.37:5060 NAT address 192.168.37.37

[04:51:37]

Anusien:

SIP: Cannot register; proxy, username or password not set

[04:51:38]

Anusien:

err

[04:51:40]

Anusien:

http://rafb.net/p/oDIrQQ10.html

[04:51:48]

Dagmar:

Anusien: that's mythphone

[04:51:56]

Dagmar:

Just kick out the plugins you've no intention of using

[04:52:05]

Dagmar:

It'll make the jibber-jabber a little less voluminous.

[04:52:23]

Dagmar:

SIP == da phone procotol

[04:52:33]

Anusien:

ah

[04:52:41]

Anusien:

What about the other one?

[04:52:48]

Dagmar:

What otehr one

[04:52:51]

Anusien:

pastebin

[04:52:58]

Dagmar:

The first line is completely normal boring jibber jabber

[04:53:29]

Dagmar:

The last two are just MythPhone carping because you've not set it up, and trust me, it won't be fun

[04:53:42]

Dagmar:

Well, mythPhone is easy enough to set up I guess.

[04:53:54]

Dagmar:

What you have to do to get it to go through your firewall is another question

[04:54:08]

Anusien:

so the "2008-08–20 23:47:33.263 MCP::DefaultUPnP() – No default UPnP backend

[04:54:10]

Anusien:

is not important?

[04:54:21]

Dagmar:

...but basically unless you intend to be using it, just uninstall the mythphone plugins

[04:54:32]

wagnerrp:

of course setting up asterisk so it doesnt have to go through your firewall would be considerably more painful

[04:54:39]

Dagmar:

Anusien: It'll browse for one when it needs it. That there's no default shouldn't be breaking anything

[04:54:53]

Anusien:

I don't think I actually have a firewall except at the barrier of my network

[04:54:57]

Anusien:

So when I do a search for upnp servers some lines pop in the logs

[04:55:09]

Dagmar:

If yer using Ubuntu as a desktop you would be better served using Ekiga for SIP instead of using MythPhone

[04:55:32]

Anusien:

http://rafb.net/p/nDYgWW28.html <-- what does that mean? Anything?

[04:55:52]

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[04:55:52]

Dagmar:

Anusien: It's a uPnP query

[04:56:00]

Dagmar:

uPnP's innards look and behave a lot like HTTP.

[04:56:01]

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[04:56:31]

Anusien:

so mythtv is receiving the UPnP query, and for some reason one isn't being sent back properly

[04:56:47]

Dagmar:

So, the same s**t I'm seeing when I try to use it

[04:57:00]

Dagmar:

It gets the query, and just doesn't seem to care.

[04:57:25]

Dagmar:

You DO have to set the access code for uPnP tho

[04:57:31]

Anusien:

oh?

[04:57:34]

Dagmar:

"somewhere in the frontend setup menus"

[04:57:37]

Anusien:

this is unfamiliar to me

[04:57:41]

Dagmar:

If you don't set one, it'll ignroe everything

[04:57:46]

Anusien:

*checks*

[04:57:56]

Dagmar:

Kinda like a four digit bluetooth password

[04:58:00]

Dagmar:

...only not always "1234"

[04:58:03]

wagnerrp:

Dagmar: really? i thought that was just for frontend/backend connectivity

[04:58:13]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: kormoc IIRC told me it has to be set

[04:58:28]

Dagmar:

Didn't do me any good

[04:58:50]

Dagmar:

At some point I'll probably get desperate enough to dig into the code and start littering the place with printf's so I can see what's going on

[04:59:11]

Anusien:

doesn't appear to be general

[04:59:36]

Anusien:

I see a pin, but I don't know if it's for that

[04:59:50]

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[05:00:15]

Anusien:

The only such thing I see is a setup PIN code. is that it?

[05:00:43]

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[05:00:57]

Anusien:

... seems unlikely

[05:02:55]

Anusien:

Looks like somebody forgot to call justfuckingwork()

[05:03:23]

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[05:05:22]

Dagmar:

SecurityPin under MythWeb IIRC

[05:05:26]

Anusien:

THe wiki says this: "Make sure you have a route for 239.0.0.0/8 out your lan nic BEFORE mythbackend starts (route add -net 239.0.0.0/8 eth0)." but I was told to run "route add -net 239.0.0.0 netmask 255.0.0.0 dev eth0" <-- is there a difference

[05:05:29]

Anusien:

mythweb?

[05:05:30]

Dagmar:

I see that mine is currently freaking blank

[05:05:52]

Anusien:

don't even see mythweb

[05:06:01]

Dagmar:

Only if your network interface is actually eth2 or something

[05:06:24]

Dagmar:

MythWeb is something ratehr nice xris and kormoc do

[05:06:37]

Anusien:

ah, heard about it. was going to investigate once upnp works

[05:06:41]

Dagmar:

If you have apache setup on that box, try going to http://thatip/mythweb/

[05:07:08]

Anusien:

is there a clean way to restart the backend?

[05:07:37]

wagnerrp:

kill it and start it back up again

[05:08:01]

wagnerrp:

about the only way you piss mythtv is when you kill it mid-recording

[05:08:34]

Anusien:

wait, the backend doesn't seem to be running

[05:08:39]

Dagmar:

That doesn't really bother it all that much

[05:08:47]

Dagmar:

lol

[05:08:57]

wagnerrp:

if the backend isnt running... then youre not going to be streaming upnp to anything

[05:09:00]

Dagmar:

Yeqah if the backend is running, all bets for functionality are off.

[05:09:07]

Anusien:

or rather, ps -u anusien | grep myth and ps -u root grep myth

[05:09:08]

Anusien:

both showed nothing

[05:09:18]

Dagmar:

Don't bother with -u

[05:09:23]

Dagmar:

Just ps -ef | grep mythback

[05:09:42]

Anusien:

ah, ran under mythtv username

[05:10:02]

Anusien:

err

[05:10:06]

Dagmar:

Or, if you want to be really intelligent about it: ps -C mythbackend

[05:10:14]

Anusien:

"2008-08–21 00:09:54.545 MediaServer:: Loopback address specified – 127.0.0.1. Disabling UPnP"

[05:10:25]

Dagmar:

DINGDINGDING

[05:10:31]

Anusien:

!! A WINNER IS YOU

[05:10:38]

Anusien:

how do I fix that?

[05:10:44]

Dagmar:

Damned if I know, but it's *something*

[05:10:50]

wagnerrp:

change your backend and frontend settings to a real IP

[05:10:57]

wagnerrp:

rather than the localhost address

[05:11:02]

Anusien:

wagnerrp: where? I thought I did already, so this is baffling me

[05:11:05]

Dagmar:

I'll bet that's what's been fucking mine up

[05:11:13]

Dagmar:

Anusien: Run mythtv-setup

[05:11:15]

wagnerrp:

mythtv-setup, the first page on the first group

[05:11:22]

Anusien:

okay

[05:11:22]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: This brings up an interesting issue

[05:11:29]

Anusien:

other than `find / -type f | xargs -n 1 grep "127.0.0.1"`

[05:11:31]

Dagmar:

Let's say you're using DHCP to assign IPs at home

[05:11:37]

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[05:11:44]

Dagmar:

Anusien: That command will do nothing useful

[05:11:55]

Anusien:

no?

[05:12:15]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: If the IP of the thing is unknown, it testing for any given IP is just going to break the hell out of uPnP

[05:12:31]

wagnerrp:

Anusien: the setting is stored in a mysql database, not in a greppable file

[05:13:21]

Anusien:

ah

[05:13:32]

wagnerrp:

well if the IP is unknown, youre going to break the hell out of mythtv in general

[05:13:47]

wagnerrp:

however uPnP *should* be able to autodetect and recover

[05:14:35]

Anusien:

http://rafb.net/p/g9EQqS98.html <-- a good sign

[05:15:03]

Anusien:

SUCCESS!

[05:15:12]

Anusien:

nero showtime sees 1 video

[05:15:33]

Anusien:

time to check the xbox

[05:15:41]

wagnerrp:

actually, if youre on DHCP, and the backend's IP changes, it no longer thinks its the primary backend

[05:15:52]

wagnerrp:

so it outright disabled uPnP

[05:15:52]

Anusien:

so it wasn't quite as simple as I thought, but close

[05:16:13]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: See that's when we're poking in 127.0.0.1 and/or localhost for the locations it asks about

[05:16:14]

Anusien:

interestingly, the XBox "finds" the old server as well, which annoys me to no end

[05:16:46]

Anusien:

but I now have video streaming from my media machine to my TV. Thanks a bunch everyone

[05:16:46]

Dagmar:

That's something I suspect we might need to do a bug report on so there's one location for people to yammer about it

[05:17:01]

Dagmar:

It should REALLY be making those distinctions based on it's apparent hostname, not the IP address.

[05:17:07]

Anusien:

Dagmar: Basically I ran mythbackend in a terminal and it popped right up on the logs

[05:17:08]

justinh:

Dagmar: trac is not a discussion forum

[05:17:18]

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[05:17:24]

Dagmar:

jstinh: Yeah, but it's a *something* that other data can swing from and scratch itsefl

[05:17:29]

Anusien:

Dagmar: Also, did you see the note on the wiki re: PS3?

[05:17:35]

Dagmar:

Nope

[05:17:38]

Dagmar:

Lemme search it

[05:18:55]

wagnerrp:

as much as i would like to see FQDNs in mythtv, rather than IPs, the users should be able to figure out how to get a static IP

[05:19:16]

justinh:

the users. the user should have a clue :)

[05:19:23]

Dagmar:

Yeah they should, but any reasonable software should be able to find out it's own hostname

[05:19:52]

Dagmar:

I'm pretty sure if I dug through my big white Unix TCP/IP box I could probably find something from Richie saying that point blank

[05:20:03]

justinh:

myth also doesn't do any sanity in case a remote frontend has the same hostname as a backend

[05:20:16]

wagnerrp:

what doesnt make sense is that all the settings are done by hostname, but the primary backend is chosen by IP

[05:20:28]

Dagmar:

justinh: That also technically means the network is broken, so no big deal there.

[05:20:33]

justinh:

wagnerrp: they're not done by hostname. it's IP address

[05:21:01]

Dagmar:

hostnames are supposed to be unique to a domain, period-it's-rfc-stuff

[05:21:09]

wagnerrp:

justinh: i look in the settings table, and i see a list of hostnames

[05:21:21]

justinh:

oh in the SETTINGS table sure

[05:21:53]

Anusien:

AMusingly now that streaming works, I don't have time to watch a movie!

[05:22:22]

justinh:

Anusien: well, at least it's good for tomorrow/whenever

[05:22:33]

justinh:

enjoy the crashiness of Showtime btw

[05:23:17]

justinh:

still, at least it didn't make my backend fall over like winmyth did

[05:23:33]

Dagmar:

If I go to the mess of looking through this 1.75" thick monster of a book to find the Thou Shalt Use Hostnames bit, expect that I'm going to use it like an RFC trout

[05:23:54]

justinh:

Dagmar: expect that you'll fall on deaf ears too

[05:24:17]

Dagmar:

We Do Not Argue With Mr. Richard Stevens on Unix Network Programming Issues

[05:24:30]

Dagmar:

This book here http://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Network-Programmin . . . p/013490012X is always right

[05:24:37]

justinh:

fact is I don't think too many users bother setting up BIND & such at home

[05:24:54]

Dagmar:

Yeah, but /etc/HOSTNAME and so forth are basically universale

[05:25:26]

Dagmar:

...and even on things which aren't BSD-derived/centric/whatever are still loading the hostname into the environment using a localized setting

[05:25:31]

Dagmar:

This is like, deep, old Unix stuff

[05:25:42]

justinh:

maybe the ubuntus of the world should make things clear in their settings dialogues

[05:25:46]

wagnerrp:

justinh: perhaps, but i would believe that users setting up multiple mythtv machines such that they might run into duplicate domain names would know not to do so

[05:25:48]

Dagmar:

It can be relied upon that the machine won't need to use DNS to find out it's own hostname

[05:26:14]

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[05:26:18]

justinh:

hell I don't even know my network-101

[05:26:27]

Dagmar:

justinh: I think we can probably arrange to convince them to make ti clear that machines should have a unique hostname, but Ubuntu does a pretty good job of that when you install Ubuntu

[05:26:36]

Dagmar:

justinh: Oh I do

[05:26:55]

Dagmar:

Remember, I pre-date a whole slew of these protocols, saw them being thought up on USENET and so forth

[05:27:08]

justinh:

don't feel I need to know, so I don't know. i.e. I've got by fine so far thankyou ;)

[05:27:20]

Dagmar:

...so like, most of the common ways someone can just set themselves up to fail, I'll probably remember some semi-famous fuckup that someone else did

[05:27:43]

Dagmar:

That XTI book isn't actually that bad, BTW.

[05:27:57]

Dagmar:

A hell of a lot clearer than the man pages on a lot of these networking calls, too.

[05:28:01]

justinh:

seen a few people in my time here who had frontends not able to play recordings because the frontend hostname was the same as the backend & they were different machines

[05:28:18]

Dagmar:

Those people screwed up from day one by not assigning unique names

[05:28:30]

justinh:

yeah but maybe they didn't know it was important

[05:28:45]

Dagmar:

Ubuntu does like windows and tries to generate a partially psuedorandom hostname

[05:28:51]

justinh:

if nobody tells you something, assumptions can take over sometimes

[05:29:06]

Dagmar:

justinh: Like sometimes people don't think not having more htan one uid 0 account, or setting a root password is important

[05:29:24]

Dagmar:

It doesn't make what they did not wrong. It just makes them visibly ignorant.

[05:29:26]

Dagmar:

:/

[05:30:16]

justinh:

everybody's ignorant until they find out stuff

[05:30:33]

justinh:

if you don't know you're wrong.. I mean.. what can you do?

[05:31:17]

justinh:

oh yeah. that'll be their fault for not reading the tome about *nix networking before picking up that install CD

[05:32:56]

wagnerrp:

its nothing to do with unix networking, its common sense

[05:33:05]

wagnerrp:

if you name them the same thing, how do you tell them apart

[05:33:06]

justinh:

I know I sometimes rail against people who don't RTFM but there's a line

[05:33:50]

wagnerrp:

i mean george foremann named all his kids george, but thats because he has been repeatedly bludgeoned in the face

[05:34:29]

justinh:

wagnerrp: to you & I it might be common sense yes. logic has no meaning in this discussion though ;)

[05:35:40]

justinh:

actually I think I remember at least one of the cases where 'hostname' was the hostname

[05:35:42]

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[05:36:43]

justinh:

that'd do it. reading a howto rather blindly could have that effect. or a simple case of a howto making an assumption the user knows what a hostname is about

[05:38:31]

justinh:

when I was in my teens I was shown an RAF radar repair manual. It was massive. The first few chapters were devoted to telling the operator how to use a screwdriver. God knows what'd happen if they didn't know what a 'hand' was though.. yikes ;)

[05:39:46]

** justinh chuckles at the -users list post title.. "signal to noise ratio" **

[05:40:16]

iamlindoro:

sort of an apt term to apply to the users list itself

[05:41:19]

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[05:44:57]

Anusien:

Does MythVideo traverse symlinks when looking for files?

[05:48:04]

wagnerrp:

without a problem

[05:49:55]

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cesman:

Anusien: yes

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[05:56:30]

Anusien:

weird; it took a while to register the changes

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[05:56:35]

Anusien:

works though!

[06:30:12]

justinh:

time to play with a new menu button methinks

[06:32:33]

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[08:30:55]

roothorick:

I've just been offered a 1.8Ghz P4. Videocard would be a GeForce 3, but a GF6200 can be made available if needed. Will I be able to do broadcast 1080i from a local capture card with this?

[08:32:19]

roothorick:

on a side note, has the PS3 BD remote been hacked yet?

[08:33:57]

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[08:37:07]

quicksilver:

I don't think it needs hacking?

[08:37:18]

quicksilver:

isn't it a standard bluetooth remote?

[08:38:12]

quicksilver:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Sony_PS3_BD_Remote

[08:39:50]

roothorick:

oh cool

[08:44:50]

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[09:18:42]

roothorick:

the P4 turned out to be too much

[09:18:58]

roothorick:

so I'm back to this 1Ghz PIII with a GFFX5200

[09:19:35]

justinh:

ruh? trying to play 1080i mpeg2? nevah!

[09:19:41]

roothorick:

yeah, I know

[09:20:02]

roothorick:

someday I'll have to upgrade it

[09:20:10]

roothorick:

but for now, my TV is only 480i anyway

[09:20:27]

roothorick:

and all the unencrypted QAM channels already have analog counterparts

[09:21:42]

roothorick:

don't some VIA C3 processors have built-in MPEG2 decoding? How's the compatibility with that?

[09:22:14]

justinh:

nope

[09:22:25]

justinh:

won't help you for HDTV anyway

[09:22:39]

roothorick:

why not?

[09:23:02]

justinh:

on most of them the max size of streams they can accelerate is 1000x1000

[09:23:14]

justinh:

if you're lucky

[09:24:11]

justinh:

plus for the price of one of them you can get a real frontend

[09:25:56]

roothorick:

I have limited shelf space in my home theater setup

[09:25:57]

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[09:26:19]

pat_:

cheapest, tinyest, sdtv frontend?

[09:26:38]

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[09:26:56]

pat_:

using an old sff dell at the moment, but the powersupply fan is dying

[09:27:04]

justinh:

roothorick: so. do you want to be able to play hdtv or not? if yes, don't get the via boards

[09:27:20]

justinh:

pat_: cheapest cannot == tiniest

[09:27:39]

justinh:

small sizes cost ya

[09:27:44]

pat_:

eee boxes are pretty tiny and cheap

[09:27:57]

pat_:

well cheaper than a mac mini I guess

[09:28:06]

pat_:

in .au they're $850

[09:28:13]

pat_:

so I'd call half of that cheap

[09:28:27]

justinh:

well, mac mini is about as small as it's going to get

[09:28:42]

roothorick:

and PS3 isn't really viable for anything above 480p I take it

[09:28:46]

justinh:

half the money a mac mini costs is not going to buy you a box anything like as small

[09:28:51]

justinh:

roothorick: course not

[09:29:06]

justinh:

roothorick: not running linux

[09:29:16]

purserj:

pat_: been down to your local computer fair?

[09:29:26]

roothorick:

what are the limits in terms of using UPnP?

[09:29:33]

justinh:

yeah local computer fairs have real ugly noisy boxes for cheap

[09:29:42]

justinh:

roothorick: ?

[09:29:51]

roothorick:

can I entirely replace a Myth frontend (no addons) with UPnP and mythweb?

[09:30:01]

justinh:

you're limited to the formats the lame media player supports

[09:30:44]

pat_:

purserj: nah. I'm thinking that the easiest thing would be to cut the back out of one of the speaker spots in the tv cabinet and put a small tower in there

[09:30:47]

roothorick:

okay. format considerations aside.

[09:31:00]

justinh:

roothorick: in theory yes

[09:31:07]

roothorick:

justinh: in practice?

[09:31:12]

purserj:

pat_: that could work as well

[09:31:14]

justinh:

roothorick: probably not

[09:31:22]

roothorick:

justinh: would you care to elaborate?

[09:31:33]

pat_:

purserj: probably the cheapest option, I could use existing components and get a $50 case

[09:31:39]

justinh:

roothorick: would you care to do some of your own research into what formats the PS3 supports?

[09:31:50]

roothorick:

justinh: I was thinking 360 actually

[09:31:53]

pat_:

just I'd have to pull a bunch of stuff apart

[09:31:59]

justinh:

whatever. I couldn't care less

[09:32:00]

roothorick:

360 + Wii

[09:32:10]

purserj:

pat_: I'm planning on doing something similar once I get the money together

[09:32:42]

justinh:

AFAIK xbox360 can play even fewer formats than the PS3

[09:32:46]

roothorick:

justinh: so I'm likely to run into showstopper issues with regards to format compatibility. Not something I can transcode around.

[09:33:06]

justinh:

you probably could transcode around them but wow. what a ballache

[09:33:24]

roothorick:

especially considering my backend doesn't have the balls to transcode 1080i in real time

[09:33:57]

roothorick:

I think what I'm gonna have to do, is let this Dell handle it for now, and re-evaluate my options once I get that HDTV.

[09:34:49]

roothorick:

dumb Sony. Putting such restrictions on the GPU largely defeats the purpose of Linux on PS3.

[09:35:09]

justinh:

so?

[09:39:10]

justinh:

oh yeah I forgot. it has a cpu inside so therefore must be allowed to run linux or else!

[09:39:42]

roothorick:

... do Mini-ITX motherboards that support Core 2 series procs even exist?

[09:39:57]

justinh:

yup

[09:40:01]

justinh:

there're not cheap though

[09:45:11]

roothorick:

it looks like I'm stuck building a desktop system and hiding it behind the TV stand

[09:48:23]

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[09:53:36]

AndyCap:

kontron ktus15 or what it's called.

[09:55:07]

AndyCap:

uh, never mind. that was the atom one

[09:55:31]

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[09:55:39]

justinh:

by the power of gary's skull.. the mighty (cough) atom

[09:56:51]

** bagpuss_thecat appears **

[09:58:06]

** bagpuss_thecat has ben given approval by the missus to buy a Xbox360 **

[09:58:19]

bagpuss_thecat:

for christmas

[09:58:25]

bagpuss_thecat:

for the both of us

[09:59:12]

justinh:

and some earplugs?

[09:59:22]

bagpuss_thecat:

got them already

[10:02:32]

pat_:

doesn't mentioning castle greyskull automatically qualify you as old?

[10:03:30]

roothorick:

how much RAM does a Myth box doing 1080p need?

[10:03:49]

pat_:

I think it depends on the theme

[10:04:16]

roothorick:

probably just the default

[10:04:23]

i_is_cat:

i tried upgrading my mythtv to the dev version and now everything is hosed

[10:04:29]

roothorick:

unless that's too blurry at 1080p

[10:04:40]

bagpuss_thecat:

now that I think about it... does a XBox360 have the power to do 1080p or 1080i playback from a MythTV source? Assuming xbmc or likewise is installed

[10:04:42]

pat_:

i_is_cat: sounds like time to restore from your backup

[10:04:44]

i_is_cat:

i get this when i try to start myth on my frontend: mythfrontend: error while loading shared libraries: libmythtv-0.22.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

[10:05:18]

justinh:

i_is_cat: which mythfrontend

[10:05:33]

roothorick:

will 2GB be enough?

[10:05:34]

i_is_cat:

what do you mean by that?

[10:05:46]

pat_:

roothorick: yes, plenty

[10:05:48]

justinh:

roothorick: maybe

[10:05:53]

justinh:

not if you use blootube-wide

[10:05:59]

justinh:

but nobody with any taste does

[10:06:20]

roothorick:

justinh: as I said, I'll probably be using the default

[10:06:30]

justinh:

GNAT? eew

[10:06:50]

roothorick:

let's put it this way

[10:07:13]

justinh:

oh you like cave paintings

[10:07:20]

roothorick:

an ncurses-inspired theme would be fine by me

[10:07:35]

roothorick:

as long as the actual video looks good

[10:07:36]

justinh:

yikes you need help

[10:08:08]

roothorick:

okay smart guy what theme do you like?

[10:08:34]

justinh:

glass-wide

[10:08:51]

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[10:09:17]

roothorick:

I'm eyeing up an Athlon 64 LE-1600. Is that gonna cut it for 1080p?

[10:10:12]

roothorick:

2.2Ghz...

[10:10:15]

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[10:10:29]

roothorick:

actually the hardest thing I'm gonna be playing is broadcast 1080i

[10:11:12]

pat_:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/requirements

[10:11:17]

justinh:

nothing is broadcast in 1080p

[10:11:36]

roothorick:

I'm aware. Note the i in the second sentence

[10:12:02]

roothorick:

I said the first part, then thought about it and realized that the going won't get tougher than broadcast 1080i for this rig

[10:12:35]

pat_:

roothorick: google for hd minimum requirements and that'll give you an idea of what cpu you require

[10:12:57]

bagpuss_thecat:

so, now that Ofcom has settled on DVB-T2... does this mean that freeview terrestrial receivers will be upgraded over the air if not already capable, or are they all fucked?

[10:13:10]

justinh:

bagpuss_thecat: they won't be able to get HD

[10:13:22]

** bagpuss_thecat has deliberately stayed away from HD until this shit gets sorted out **

[10:13:26]

justinh:

bagpuss_thecat: what's on dvb-t now will be staying dvb-t for the considerable future

[10:14:00]

justinh:

bagpuss_thecat: you mean you're not interested in the er.. 3-ish free HD channels? ;)

[10:14:21]

bagpuss_thecat:

\o/

[10:14:33]

bagpuss_thecat:

I'm just eager to see all this crap sorted out

[10:14:51]

bagpuss_thecat:

just been readin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T#DVB-T2 :-)

[10:14:59]

justinh:

you won't mind waiting til 2015 or so then

[10:15:34]

bagpuss_thecat:

2009 according to wikipedia

[10:15:41]

justinh:

dvb-t2 is all very well, but where are the dvb-t tuner cards? and where is the linux driver support?

[10:15:47]

justinh:

bagpuss_thecat: optimistic

[10:15:53]

bagpuss_thecat:

unless I'm interpreting it wrongly, which could be likely given my lack of caffeine

[10:16:09]

justinh:

oh wait. there are no dvb-t2 tuners available yet

[10:16:09]

roothorick:

so I should go a little farther up the chain, say a 2.4Ghz single-core. This is going to be a frontend-only machine, so

[10:16:25]

purserj:

justinh: I've got a dvb-t tuner card in my box

[10:16:36]

justinh:

dvb-T 2

[10:16:43]

justinh:

and in DVB-T2

[10:16:50]

justinh:

as in.. NOT DVB-T

[10:16:54]

bagpuss_thecat:

justinh: well, that goes without saying

[10:17:05]

justinh:

as in DVB-T tuners will not be able to tune DVB-T2 signals, purserj

[10:17:27]

bagpuss_thecat:

justinh: "but where are the dvb-t tuner cards?"

[10:17:28]

roothorick:

does a Myth backend necessarily have to have a tuner? Could I e.g. run a backend on my server to put those twin Katmais to work commercial-flagging and maybe transcoding?

[10:17:35]

** bagpuss_thecat suspects purserj was replying to that **

[10:17:38]

justinh:

duh

[10:17:48]

justinh:

pedantry!

[10:18:14]

bagpuss_thecat:

recieve what you give :-)

[10:18:22]

bagpuss_thecat:

s/ie/ei/

[10:18:43]

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[10:18:58]

justinh:

wowser. dvb-t has an extra 10mbits/sec capacity. that's enough for 50 HDTV channels!

[10:19:01]

justinh:

:-O

[10:19:05]

justinh:

er.. dvb-t2 I mean

[10:19:41]

jduggan_:

ble

[10:19:43]

jduggan_:

talkin of HD

[10:19:56]

jduggan_:

has channel 4 said when/if theyre putting 4hd fta?

[10:20:14]

justinh:

nope

[10:20:55]

jduggan_:

when 4 hd goes fta i'll probably make the effort to invest in hd

[10:21:50]

bagpuss_thecat:

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051316

[10:21:57]

bagpuss_thecat:

only 9 years until I get HD then :-D

[10:22:00]

bagpuss_thecat:

\o/

[10:22:23]

justinh:

bagpuss_thecat: assuming ofcock don't mess it up

[10:22:47]

bagpuss_thecat:

how dare you suggest they would do such a thing!

[10:23:10]

bagpuss_thecat:

the british government and associated regulators are the pinnacle of efficiency and planning

[10:23:21]

justinh:

oh wait they ARE messing it up. from 6 overstuffed muxes down to only 5 even more over stuffed muxes. yay!

[10:24:20]

justinh:

nowhere in that plan says "remove licences to broadcast from shopping channels & pointless muzak channels"

[10:24:32]

roothorick:

what are the chances I could find a slim slot-load Blu-ray drive?

[10:24:42]

bagpuss_thecat:

roothorick: slim

[10:24:45]

bagpuss_thecat:

badoom-tish

[10:24:52]

bagpuss_thecat:

fucked if I know, tbh

[10:24:58]

justinh:

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=sl . . . ch&meta=

[10:25:14]

bagpuss_thecat:

justinh: I never understand why people actually respond to those "100+ channels" adverts

[10:25:17]

bagpuss_thecat:

it's all just pish

[10:25:30]

roothorick:

justinh: sweet! And only a grand too!

[10:25:35]

roothorick:

:p

[10:26:03]

roothorick:

wow, it's a lot more common than I thought...

[10:26:35]

justinh:

amazing isn't it? GOOGLE, I mean

[10:27:12]

roothorick:

justinh: the question was actually sarcastic, hahahahahaha

[10:27:22]

roothorick:

I didn't know they actually existed

[10:27:31]

dustybin:

if a PCI card uses a riser card, does that mean some of the bandwidth is gone?

[10:27:48]

** bagpuss_thecat wouldn't imagine so **

[10:27:55]

bagpuss_thecat:

PCI is just a big shit bus anyway

[10:28:13]

roothorick:

dustybin: does the PCI slot at the bottom of the motherboard have less bandwidth than the PCI slot at the top of the motherboard?

[10:28:26]

dustybin:

no

[10:28:33]

roothorick:

there's your answer :)

[10:28:45]

dustybin:

so a riser card still work in parellel

[10:28:55]

justinh:

ruh?

[10:28:56]

dustybin:

even if the riser had 3 slots

[10:29:03]

justinh:

depends on the riser

[10:29:08]

dustybin:

it would work the same as 3 slots on the mobo?

[10:29:13]

justinh:

if it comes with the system, you're good

[10:29:14]

jduggan_:

usually the riser has a piece that plugs into the regular pci slots

[10:29:22]

jduggan_:

to just transfer

[10:29:26]

dustybin:

yep i know

[10:29:32]

roothorick:

dustybin: wait... what kind of reiser are we talking about?

[10:29:39]

dustybin:

jduggan_: i was wondering if it takes away some of the bandwidth

[10:29:53]

justinh:

the kind that throws passenger seats out of cars

[10:30:00]

dustybin:

riser what plugs into 1 PCI slot so card can be put in at a angle

[10:30:12]

jduggan_:

not as far as i know

[10:30:17]

dustybin:

aye ok thanks

[10:30:19]

justinh:

dustybin: if it doesn't come with the system, tread carefully

[10:30:23]

jduggan_:

you can get issues though

[10:30:25]

jduggan_:

:o

[10:30:39]

dustybin:

justinh: it does come with system, that box has 1 PCI slot but i think it uses a riser what comes with it

[10:30:44]

jduggan_:

i've had various weird anomalies, with cards not detecting etc

[10:31:00]

roothorick:

dustybin: those don't have any effect on bandwidth whatsoever. The multiple card ones however... if they don't plug into multiple PCI slots, there's some crazy voodoo going on there... unless they plug into a proprietary connector on the motherboard they come with, that is

[10:31:01]

justinh:

dustybin: should be ok then. shut your cakehole

[10:31:17]

dustybin:

was just checking :o

[10:31:45]

dustybin:

----> :|

[10:32:27]

roothorick:

dustybin: rule of thumb: if it came with the motherboard, you're good. If not, as long as it has as many PCI connectors on it as it does slots, you're good. Otherwise, just plain avoid.

[10:32:41]

dustybin:

ok

[10:34:54]

jduggan_:

actually rule of thumb is to not eat yellow snow

[10:35:19]

justinh:

avoid women who approach you in takeaways late at night

[10:35:28]

jduggan_:

no no

[10:35:39]

jduggan_:

(unless you havent pulled)

[10:35:40]

jduggan_:

;]

[10:35:47]

jduggan_:

in which case, perfect pickings

[10:36:05]

justinh:

hrm. so long as you wake up still as drunk as when you got home

[10:36:23]

justinh:

beer googles ftw!

[10:39:02]

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[10:51:27]

webvictim:

haha

[10:53:12]

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[10:53:18]

justinh:

still, only the shallow look at the mantelpiece, eh ;)

[10:59:18]

dustybin:

im going to hit the buy button!!!

[11:01:52]

dustybin:

going, going

[11:07:23]

roothorick:

Newegg has a really awesome looking barebones from MSI

[11:07:24]

roothorick:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167020

[11:07:33]

roothorick:

just add CPU, RAM and hard drive for a complete set-top PC

[11:07:41]

roothorick:

even has a front VFD

[11:07:44]

dustybin:

bastard

[11:08:19]

** dustybin dies **

[11:08:24]

roothorick:

whether said VFD works with Myth is unknown

[11:08:46]

roothorick:

but I know I'll be buying one

[11:09:45]

dustybin:

wow that box has real connections

[11:09:49]

dustybin:

rather than computer connections

[11:11:12]

mzb_d800:

quite nice to look at

[11:11:31]

dustybin:

got bad reviews

[11:11:33]

mzb_d800:

sans logo

[11:12:29]

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[11:13:21]

at0m|c:

got this rather expensive alu case from Gigabyte, looked super in the shop

[11:13:28]

at0m|c:

untill it started resonating eh

[11:13:57]

mzb_d800:

dustybin: reviews from anyone that counts?

[11:15:45]

roothorick:

dustybin: most of those reviews complain primarily about the pre-production BIOS. Which is a non-issue since a newer one is available from MSI

[11:17:27]

mzb_d800:

better if available in black

[11:17:30]

mzb_d800:

;)

[11:18:05]

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[11:20:52]

mzb_d800:

old stock? no longer available in .au

[11:23:34]

mzb_d800:

err... make that $507-$570 +post ... nah

[11:23:55]

mzb_d800:

although it does have some nice features

[11:24:20]

mzb_d800:

if it was available in black I might look twice

[11:25:51]

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[11:26:06]

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[11:26:49]

dustybin:

Based on NVIDIA C51PVG + MCP51 chipset <-- never heard of that

[11:28:21]

dustybin:

Graphics Controller NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE

[11:28:23]

dustybin:

not bad

[11:33:29]

roothorick:

dustybin: C51PVG+MCP51 == nForce 5/6 series (forget which)

[11:33:52]

roothorick:

also I just noticed it has built-in WiFi

[11:34:08]

roothorick:

literally PERFECT for my setup

[11:34:34]

dustybin:

stll expensive here, £250 + cost of CPU

[11:34:48]

dustybin:

will be around £300 squid

[11:34:59]

roothorick:

I priced it out with CPU+RAM and using a hard drive I have laying around. $465 USD for me.

[11:35:14]

dustybin:

ok

[11:35:16]

roothorick:

not bad at all considering everything you get

[11:35:22]

dustybin:

aye

[11:35:47]

dustybin:

but for a extra 100 you can get a macmini

[11:35:52]

roothorick:

remote, VFD, built-in WiFi, and already has all the hookups you need to integrate it directly into your home theater rack

[11:36:08]

roothorick:

does a Mac Mini come with optical audio out? or 8x RCA jacks?

[11:36:12]

dustybin:

thats if they all work...

[11:36:21]

dustybin:

im sure it comes with optical out

[11:36:28]

dustybin:

not RCA jacks

[11:36:54]

roothorick:

how about composite, S-vid, component, HDMI, D-Sub, and just for the sake of the guys across the pond, SCART as well?

[11:37:08]

dustybin:

well not everyone needs all those

[11:37:18]

dustybin:

if you are buying a unit for HD, all you need is a dvi out

[11:37:22]

dustybin:

nothing else

[11:37:42]

roothorick:

not necessarily. There's still a number of older HDTVs in the wild that have composite, s-vid, and component in only.

[11:37:44]

dustybin:

i wouldnt spend £300 on that unit just to use s-video :-/

[11:37:54]

dustybin:

ok

[11:38:06]

mzb_d800:

hence my purchase of m10k's ;)

[11:38:16]

dustybin:

what are they?

[11:38:23]

mzb_d800:

epia

[11:39:10]

roothorick:

as I said though, it's perfect for my setup. composite out, so it works with my current TV, and I get a selection of component, D-Sub, and HDMI so I can use any HDTV I damn well want with it, it has built-in WiFi so I don't need to plug a USB dongle into it...

[11:39:22]

mzb_d800:

us$390 for 2xM10K's in case with 40GB hdd, + 1xcase (all 3 with PSU's), and 2x USB IR keyboards

[11:39:27]

mzb_d800:

(2nd hand)

[11:40:00]

roothorick:

mzb_d800: isn't that VIA C-series procs? A little lackluster for HD video?

[11:40:03]

mzb_d800:

us$100 of that was for post

[11:40:11]

mzb_d800:

not looking for HD

[11:40:19]

roothorick:

haha. I sort-of am.

[11:40:23]

mzb_d800:

composite or s-video SD only

[11:40:24]

justinh:

a little lacklustre. rofl

[11:40:43]

mzb_d800:

justinh knows from experience ;)

[11:42:32]

mzb_d800:

roothorick: I figure by the time I'm ready for HD, the system I'd want to build would be half the price (as would be the TV)

[11:42:51]

mzb_d800:

TV prob. comes first ... not sure ;)

[11:43:36]

roothorick:

hey, that's you :p

[11:43:37]

mzb_d800:

in the meantime, I'll stick with my ancient PAL TV's and be happy with glorious colour (and true black ;P)

[11:43:53]

roothorick:

CRTs don't actually produce true black.

[11:44:03]

Dibblah:

roothorick: Eh? Yes, they do.

[11:44:08]

Dibblah:

LCDs don't.

[11:44:20]

roothorick:

Dibblah: CRTs are closer, but they still have ambient glow.

[11:44:25]

** mzb_d800 sits back and watches the entertainment **

[11:44:36]

gbee:

half the price but still an additional cost on top of what your are paying out now, at least that's the way I looked at it – invested for the future so I wouldn't keep paying out down the road

[11:44:38]

mzb_d800:

roothorick: only if they're badly tuned

[11:44:42]

Dibblah:

It's on the order of a 20000:1 CR, though.

[11:44:57]

Dibblah:

(If you're talking of the heater excitation)

[11:45:31]

roothorick:

mzb_d800: if that's the case, every single CRT I've come across has been badly tuned, ranging from computer monitors of all sizes, to arcade monitors, and a very wide variety of TVs.

[11:45:50]

gbee:

Dibblah: depends on the quality of the CRT, no TV I've ever owned managed black, just greys

[11:45:51]

Dibblah:

roothorick: And? Your point?

[11:46:12]

Dibblah:

TVs are _all_ pre-tuned for in-store sales wow.

[11:46:30]

Dibblah:

Which means that black level is up, white level is waaaay up, etc.

[11:46:37]

mzb_d800:

if black the same regardless of the screen being turned on or off ... I'm with that. No way can a modern panel match that.

[11:46:40]

gbee:

even when switched off TV screens aren't black

[11:46:42]

mzb_d800:

point is moot

[11:46:46]

roothorick:

what about arcade monitors? You don't exactly see an arcade cabinet powered on before you buy it from your distributor.

[11:46:50]

mzb_d800:

(mute?;)

[11:47:59]

roothorick:

fwiw, Mitsubishi's new laser projection tech is capable of true black IN THEORY, but in practice the control circuitry isn't quite precise enough.

[11:48:07]

mzb_d800:

arguing apples vs oranges is pointless ... bottom line is that one technology gives a *true*(er) black ... and the (newer) doesn't

[11:49:13]

mzb_d800:

CRT is still the known winner, regardless of it's implementation ... in brightness, colour, contrast and price.

[11:49:18]

gbee:

and we're saying that's only true if you are comparing new for new, new CRTs might give a truer black, but my new LCD and in fact all my computer screens manage a much better black than any CRT I've ever owned

[11:49:50]

roothorick:

gbee: that's unfortunate. My 22" Nokia from the late 90s has beaten every LCD I've ever seen

[11:50:17]

gbee:

Nokia made TVs? Never knew that

[11:50:29]

roothorick:

computer monitors. For professional applications. Video editing, etc.

[11:50:32]

** mzb_d800 decides to sit back while the experts squabble **

[11:51:01]

roothorick:

said monitor is the very one I'm sitting in front of right now. I can take pictures if you'd like.

[11:51:12]

gbee:

roothorick: huh, never seen one – only Nokia products I knew about were their phones and mobile devices

[11:51:25]

roothorick:

yeah, that's what they're known for.

[11:52:20]

gbee:

roothorick: no, I believe you – but then if anything you made my earlier point, that if you are prepared to pay then I'm sure it was (is) possible to get a CRT with great blacks

[11:53:01]

gbee:

a professional device should probably manage a pretty good black, but at a price I'll bet

[11:53:12]

sid3windr:

nokia made tv's too

[11:53:18]

roothorick:

I got this monitor for free, actually ;)

[11:53:31]

** justinh wonders how good broadcast LCD monitors are **

[11:53:34]

roothorick:

being an older unit, it's not worth much today

[11:53:38]

sid3windr:

nokia also makes firewall appliances, softwre and toilet paper ;)

[11:53:55]

roothorick:

...toilet paper?

[11:54:02]

justinh:

sid3windr: the toilet paper I can believe. as for the rest of it...

[11:54:15]

mzb_d800:

turn the lights off, turn TV on without signal ... still black? ... now compare it to LCD. And I'm not talking professional gear ... I mean consumer items.

[11:54:35]

directhex:

roothorick, there's a reason people liked old 17" dell monitors. guess who comes up on the EDID info

[11:54:43]

gbee:

I'm not disputing that CRTs can beat LCDs on black, it's true – but I would question just how many people have (or have owned in the past) a CRT than will beat a modern LCD

[11:54:49]

roothorick:

directhex: oh I don't know, Nokia?

[11:55:08]

roothorick:

gbee: modern CRTs beat modern LCDs :p

[11:55:33]

sid3windr:

roothorick: sony

[11:55:34]

directhex:

roothorick, who makes modern CRTs?

[11:55:36]

justinh:

this debate will run & run. pistols at dawn, shaps

[11:55:54]

mzb_d800:

my 35yo 69cm AWA Thorn TV beats my 24" Dell LCD ... and why? => it looks better, it was cheaper (free), and I've got a spare.

[11:56:05]

roothorick:

directhex: CRTs are still popular in SDTV. Walk down the aisle in any Wal-Mart ;)

[11:56:08]

mzb_d800:

oh ... and it's bigger

[11:56:13]

i_is_cat:

i was using a crt that displays something like 1772x1280 resolution up until about a week ago

[11:56:28]

gbee:

roothorick: yes :) I'm not about to put a CRT back in my living room or turn over my entire desk for a 19"/22" CRT though

[11:56:35]

mzb_d800:

justinh: 10 paces?

[11:56:35]

directhex:

roothorick, CRT TV? wal-mart? i'd rather die. the damn things give me a splitting headache

[11:56:40]

roothorick:

directhex: also, CRT front projectors are still very popular

[11:56:57]

i_is_cat:

and aside from the physical size of the monitor i think the picture quality was much better than any lcd i've seen personally

[11:57:00]

directhex:

roothorick, there isn't a single projection tv in yurp

[11:57:13]

justinh:

mzb_d800: as many or as few paces as you want

[11:57:17]

i_is_cat:

physical size being the reason im not using it lol

[11:57:21]

roothorick:

not really at the consumer level, but the commercial front projector market is dominated by CRT based units

[11:57:30]

justinh:

put them in each other's mouths for all I care ;)

[11:57:47]

mzb_d800:

justinh: ok ... start counting ... I'll shoot when I come back and see who it hits ;)

[11:58:41]

gbee:

my monitor claims 5000:1, not sure whether it's true but just holding up various black objects from around the room shows that they are actually grey in comparison :P

[11:59:23]

roothorick:

5000:1 is beyond human recognition in a lit room

[11:59:33]

roothorick:

the higher contrast ratios come into play when the lights go down

[11:59:34]

gbee:

my phone, the portable HDD, the handle of my bottle opener, the lid of a black pen

[11:59:37]

mzb_d800:

tried holding your d!ck up in front of it to tell if it's doing true white?

[11:59:48]

mzb_d800:

;)

[12:00:10]

** mzb_d800 starts to think that drinking and typing might be a bad idea **

[12:00:16]

gbee:

yeah ...

[12:00:18]

justinh:

mzb_d800: so that's how it's easy to mis-measure screen size. aha!

[12:01:07]

mzb_d800:

justinh: yeah, apparently ... americans in particular get confused about inches vs centimeters

[12:01:19]

mzb_d800:

(so I'm told;)

[12:01:56]

** gbee is getting impatient waiting for a delivery **

[12:02:26]

justinh:

bah I have to do some real work work

[12:02:54]

** gbee hasn't done anything today **

[12:03:40]

justinh:

is that bad?

[12:03:51]

pat_:

typical for some

[12:04:35]

mzb_d800:

justinh: cm vs in is probably parallax error ;)

[12:07:57]

pat_:

hmm, I'm drunk and not trying to piss people off, what's your problem mzb_d800?

[12:08:36]

justinh:

drunk in IRC usually only happens when I come home from a night out

[12:08:38]

mzb_d800:

pat_: not sure,want to enlighten me?

[12:15:17]

** mzb_d800 has built in care-factor override **

[12:19:40]

mzb_d800:

(faulty when installed but still works on a good day;)

[12:27:21]

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[12:53:36]

mzb_d800:

question for those running mixed gigabit / 10–100 networks ... is there any point in setting mtu=9k on 10/100 hosts?

[12:55:00]

dustybin:

the Philips 26PW8402/37 26" CRT TV is a HDTV? WTF?

[12:55:08]

justinh:

I don't know anything about it but I suspect it won't make all that much difference

[12:55:11]

dustybin:

how the hell can a CRT be HD?

[12:55:16]

justinh:

dustybin: easy!

[12:55:24]

dustybin:

??

[12:55:26]

justinh:

same way an LCD/plasma can be SDTV

[12:55:48]

dustybin:

26-inch widescreen RealFlat CRT offers vivid, high-contrast HD images

[12:55:57]

justinh:

also the same way a CRT can be a velly high resorution monitor

[12:56:01]

dustybin:

1080i, 480p capable with 2 HD component-video inputs and 8 total video inputs

[12:56:33]

dustybin:

wtf

[12:56:57]

justinh:

you were here when people were saying HD CRTs are available

[12:59:10]

mzb_d800:

in the case of CRT's isn't it just down to electronics for the resolution, as opposed to LCD's?

[12:59:28]

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[12:59:29]

mzb_d800:

ie: screen is analogue?

[13:00:23]

justinh:

mzb_d800: and the pitch of the mask

[13:00:29]

mzb_d800:

ah true

[13:01:20]

justinh:

one area flat panels will always beat CRT. that's _geometry_ :D

[13:01:27]

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[13:01:54]

mzb_d800:

yeah, no more pin-cushion, I guess ;)

[13:02:09]

mzb_d800:

(etc)

[13:02:09]

justinh:

oh and convergence

[13:02:23]

mzb_d800:

heh

[13:02:59]

mzb_d800:

and think of all the tv-fiddlers (err... technicians) that will be retiring soon

[13:03:40]

justinh:

mzb_d800: nah. they're already arming themselves with gear to fix the temperamental SMPSUs of panels

[13:04:04]

mzb_d800:

evolution, huh?

[13:04:50]

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[13:06:28]

mzb_d800:

doesn't sound as honourable as dealing with kV (killer-volts;))

[13:06:51]

justinh:

lcd backlights are still deadly

[13:09:58]

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[13:10:15]

porcodildo:

heil

[13:10:59]

mzb_d800:

gnite all .. don't let the bed-bitches reduce your inches! ... oops, I mean bed-bugs/centipedes(/meters) ... ah forget it.

[13:11:15]

mzb_d800:

gnite ;)

[13:11:33]

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[13:20:50]

roothorick:

retirement is realizing you have the means to become useless and that you actually want to be useless

[13:21:15]

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[13:22:55]

AndyCap:

and there's still plasma displays to contend with too

[13:24:09]

roothorick:

and don't forget about Mitsubishi's new laser projection mess

[13:24:42]

ajh:

What, you're not all IMAX at home?

[13:25:11]

roothorick:

I'm sure laser projection has many of the same geometry issues as CRTs do

[13:26:51]

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[13:29:20]

gbee:

oh, we're back on this subject again?

[13:30:49]

ReikoShea:

it has been known to happen

[13:31:08]

ReikoShea:

its like UPnP that way

[13:33:20]

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[13:58:56]

** Dibblah wonders how possible it is to make the program descriptions region scrollable... **

[13:59:28]

ReikoShea:

you running 0.21 or trunk?

[13:59:31]

Dibblah:

From a UI point of view, it's nasty, since you'd have to have a *third* mode to the recorded programs view.

[14:01:58]

ReikoShea:

oh, nm, i ALWAYS seem to think people are talking about mythvideo no matter what

[14:03:17]

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[14:14:59]

dustybin:

i think ive found a solution to running public servers in a DMZ on the same box what runs all my private stuff using xen

[14:15:25]

dustybin:

i would need to buy another NIC connect it to my lAN and connect a xen domu to it

[14:16:07]

dustybin:

that could then be put in a DMZ, would be as if there was another box with its own NIC on my LAN

[14:16:45]

dustybin:

mythtv frontend / backend would be running on domn0

[14:16:50]

dustybin:

and all my other stuff

[14:19:24]

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[14:20:21]

ReikoShea:

yeah, thats the only way you can ever be on 2 subnets

[14:20:25]

ReikoShea:

is with a second nic

[14:20:31]

ReikoShea:

just make sure you dont configure a gateway

[14:21:56]

dustybin:

if i bought another static IP from my ISP, i could assign a domain name to it, and then direct port 80 to that xen domu

[14:22:28]

dustybin:

so that means my private stuff has its own IP and my public stuff another IP

[14:22:36]

ReikoShea:

yeah

[14:22:49]

ReikoShea:

thats how people do it when they host their own servers

[14:22:57]

ReikoShea:

one nic is public the other is private

[14:23:01]

dustybin:

ace

[14:23:11]

justinh:

Dibblah: why would you need a 3rd mode?

[14:23:21]

dustybin:

i have a perfect intel dual NIC ready to go in the box too

[14:23:22]

dustybin:

:-)

[14:27:31]

ReikoShea:

well if its a dual nic you can do what i do

[14:27:50]

ReikoShea:

my mythstuff is on its own subnet...but you need a switch that supports vlans

[14:31:24]

ReikoShea:

aww thats sad...golf digest didnt like penny-arcade's bogey golf comics :(

[14:31:30]

ReikoShea:

poor tyco and gabe :(

[14:35:16]

Dibblah:

... How do you differentiate between selecting programs/groups/... (left side), individual programs, and scrolling the description?

[14:37:33]

dustybin:

from good to bad

[14:37:35]

dustybin:

"The NVIDIA driver does not currently work on Xen kernels."

[14:37:54]

** dustybin goes back to the drawing board **

[14:38:08]

dustybin:

maybe a frontend should really be split away from the backend

[14:38:15]

dustybin:

its not professional is it

[14:38:40]

ReikoShea:

Dibblah: we arent ignoring you, we just dont have an answer for your question

[14:39:05]

ReikoShea:

dustybin: how do you mean? Are all your mythboxes frontend/backend?

[14:39:16]

Dibblah:

Eh? justinh replied.

[14:39:31]

ReikoShea:

just didnt want you thinking we are ignoring you

[14:39:37]

ReikoShea:

this really is up justin's alley.

[14:39:42]

Dibblah:

Oh. How sweet. ;)

[14:39:52]

Dibblah:

ReikoShea: Actually, I know that.

[14:40:06]

dustybin:

ReikoShea: my main server is my frontend / backend

[14:40:10]

dustybin:

for bedroom

[14:41:07]

ReikoShea:

dustybin: yeah, for me its convenient to have a single backend since i only have one cable jack, and that same computer has excessive amounts of harddrive space

[14:41:17]

dustybin:

ok

[14:41:27]

ReikoShea:

if youve got higher end hardware, then there really is no problem doing it that way

[14:42:59]

ReikoShea:

so wait...if i understand you correctly...you have a kernel that doesnt support multiple nics?

[14:43:02]

ReikoShea:

how does that work?

[14:43:24]

dustybin:

the xen kernel doesnt support the nvidia driver

[14:43:46]

dustybin:

all its not lost, there are other virtualizations out there

[14:44:02]

ReikoShea:

yeah like vmware

[14:44:14]

ReikoShea:

thats ridiculous...

[14:47:16]

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[14:51:44]

ReikoShea:

mmmm tootsie roll pop

[14:51:49]

Easy_Rider9999:

is an AMD 2400+ too slow for getting good quality in live TV?

[14:51:59]

ReikoShea:

not really

[14:52:07]

ReikoShea:

im running a semperon 2000+ just fine

[14:52:28]

ReikoShea:

what capture card?

[14:56:04]

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[15:01:10]

ReikoShea:

anyone in the DFW, Texas area by chance?

[15:01:31]

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[15:01:57]

Easy_Rider9999:

I have a Terratec Cynergy 200 Card running with SVIDEO.

[15:03:17]

ReikoShea:

if i recall all the terratec cards are software encoding, so it might put a little bit of load on your PC especially if you're trying to watch HD channels

[15:03:44]

iamlindoro_:

There are no HD software encoders.

[15:03:52]

ReikoShea:

oh, didnt know that

[15:04:01]

Easy_Rider9999:

I didnt have so many problems when I had a monitor connected to VGA, now I have a larger panel connected to DVI (1280x1024). I have a Geforce 6200 running with proprietary drivers

[15:04:11]

iamlindoro_:

But yes, if you're using that card with S-video, it's a framegrabber, and is software encoding. Sd only, though.

[15:04:16]

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[15:04:17]

ReikoShea:

i do know that i barely pass 1.5 on my sempron with a pchdtv-5500

[15:04:31]

Easy_Rider9999:

I dont watch HD channels

[15:05:01]

Easy_Rider9999:

Also the tuner channels have bad quality

[15:05:36]

Easy_Rider9999:

So is there any difference concerning speed wether I connect my panel to DVI or to VGA?

[15:05:41]

iamlindoro_:

no

[15:06:08]

Easy_Rider9999:

I thought the same

[15:06:58]

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[15:07:07]

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[15:07:27]

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[15:07:34]

ajh:

there is differences though.

[15:07:43]

bradd:

hmmm...kernel: mythcommflag[3063]: segfault at 1d ip 0000001d sp bfabe63c error 4

[15:07:43]

ajh:

DVI will probably report back the right size.

[15:07:57]

iamlindoro_:

ha nothing to do with speed

[15:07:58]

iamlindoro_:

er has

[15:08:04]

iamlindoro_:

which is what he asked about

[15:08:07]

sid3windr:

ajh: and vga wouldn't?

[15:08:10]

ajh:

If I used VGA I get everything non-X at a smaller size, if I use DVI It all auto-adjusts.

[15:08:24]

ajh:

It might not, depends on the display you probably want to try both.

[15:08:24]

gbee:

I'll never complain about urpmi again having now tried yum

[15:08:35]

Easy_Rider9999:

Is Xorg normally running in the background? It seems to eat up al lot of cpu

[15:08:44]

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[15:08:49]

ajh:

That's blitting the screen.

[15:09:01]

ajh:

So the more display the more load.

[15:09:07]

iamlindoro_:

Easy_Rider9999: yes, it will always be running when you're running mythfrontend, and if it's taking alot of CPU it's a sign your graphics drivers are wrong or misconfigured

[15:09:53]

Dibblah:

Or just don't have accellerated XV.

[15:10:25]

iamlindoro_:

He's using nvidia with prop drivers, so he should have Xv... signs point to misconfigured

[15:10:37]

iamlindoro_:

in failed to put Option "UseEvents" "True"

[15:10:40]

iamlindoro_:

er ie

[15:11:02]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/NVidiaProprietaryDriver

[15:11:07]

iamlindoro_:

Read section "High CPU Usage"

[15:11:12]

Easy_Rider9999:

where is Option "UseEvents)

[15:11:13]

gbee:

UseEvents shouldn't cause high CPU, but using it will reduce the CPU

[15:11:25]

Easy_Rider9999:

thank you!

[15:11:35]

iamlindoro_:

gbee: I said *failed* to put it, didn't say it would cause it

[15:12:20]

gbee:

iamlindoro_: no, but my point is that leaving it out won't cause especially high CPU – after all that option was only introduced to the driver recently

[15:12:36]

ajh:

high is relative.

[15:12:57]

gbee:

true, I'd take it to mean over 60%

[15:13:06]

gbee:

at the least

[15:13:10]

iamlindoro_:

whereas I would see 60 as wayyyyy to high :)

[15:13:12]

iamlindoro_:

er too high

[15:13:20]

ajh:

depending on the machine, etc. :)

[15:13:40]

porcodildo:

here is my problem in the ml:

[15:13:41]

porcodildo:

http://mythtv.org/pipermail/mythtv-users/2008-August/231432.html

[15:13:57]

ajh:

In theory if it's a single core dedicated machine, if it only ever hits 99 you're good.

[15:14:19]

ajh:

Total :)

[15:14:28]

gbee:

without UseEvents, X sits between 10–20% during video playback

[15:14:41]

ajh:

cpu dependant.

[15:14:58]

iamlindoro_:

gbee: I've seen it go to 50–70 on an E4500 without

[15:14:59]

gbee:

on my old laptop ;) With a 6200

[15:15:31]

ajh:

anyway, I think the point is, events good.

[15:15:46]

gbee:

yup

[15:16:05]

jams:

it's even better when you use them =)

[15:16:29]

gbee:

I'd check the frontend log anyway, any errors about X/XV etc and you need to check that you've installed and configured the driver correctly

[15:17:22]

** iamlindoro_ always chuckles when he sees the guy on the ML with the .sig "Personal Trainer – Professional Engineer" **

[15:17:26]

ajh:

Ugh, the only thing more painful than preparing my 2007 taxes will be paying them.

[15:19:28]

laga:

UseEvents! i need to add that for my HD playback. i hope it'll work

[15:21:35]

ReikoShea:

....

[15:21:58]

ReikoShea:

taxes....now? not in the US are you.

[15:22:30]

ajh:

They're a little late, but no, not in the US, self-employed so June 14th was the deadline.

[15:22:32]

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[15:22:48]

ajh:

The delay is worth it though, got a pile of 'side business expenses' going against them.

[15:23:19]

ReikoShea:

i dont even know what i spent my return check on

[15:23:26]

ReikoShea:

id be willing to be my wife does though

[15:23:37]

iamlindoro_:

because it's lost in a haze of hookers and blow?

[15:23:47]

ReikoShea:

knowing her

[15:23:49]

ReikoShea:

thats a possibility

[15:23:58]

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[15:23:59]

iamlindoro_:

My kind of woman

[15:24:02]

ajh:

Ugh, I just hit 'total' in the spreadsheet, the number is very very depressing.

[15:24:11]

ReikoShea:

thats why i married her :)

[15:24:32]

ReikoShea:

you owe....another 2,000 dont you

[15:25:05]

ajh:

Heh, I wish it was in that order of magnitude.

[15:25:16]

ReikoShea:

awww

[15:25:43]

ajh:

Actually, no idea for 2007 still need to classify all these and figure out which are 100% expenses and which are assets over a longer period, then of course % of personal vs business use, etc.

[15:25:57]

ReikoShea:

good luck sir

[15:26:03]

ajh:

It's something I decided to do late too, so it took months to assemble the paperwork.

[15:26:16]

ReikoShea:

thats why i pay a cpa a 100 bucks a month to manage all the crap for my side business

[15:26:17]

ajh:

Setting up myth was easy in comparison. :)

[15:26:18]

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[15:26:31]

ReikoShea:

i just send her all my invoices and she takes care of everything

[15:26:34]

ajh:

For 2008 I will be doing that. :)

[15:27:30]

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[15:27:55]

ajh:

Lets just say going biodiesel is going to save about 10–15K a year.

[15:28:09]

Easy_Rider9999:

I added UseEvents to the Screen section and now I restart to see if it makes any difference.

[15:28:47]

ReikoShea:

nice

[15:28:50]

ReikoShea:

you make your own?

[15:29:15]

ajh:

Moving in Nov, then I will be.

[15:29:38]

ReikoShea:

just remember if you write it off as a business expense you better pay taxes on it

[15:29:49]

ReikoShea:

or the govt will EAT YOU

[15:29:56]

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[15:30:28]

ajh:

I'm going to be replacing home heating oil with it too.

[15:30:36]

ReikoShea:

in england the tax on bio diesel is like 2.30GBP and in the states its about $1.85.

[15:31:08]

ReikoShea:

but remember....all i know about england i learned from top gear

[15:31:16]

ReikoShea:

so take that number with a grain of salt

[15:31:45]

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[15:35:36]

ajh:

Reiko, when has Clarkson ever led someone astray?

[15:43:06]

ReikoShea:

every day of his life

[15:43:07]

ReikoShea:

duh

[15:43:11]

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[15:43:39]

ReikoShea:

mr im gonna race a gt-r against the bullet train

[15:43:50]

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[15:44:45]

ajh:

Sigh, this would have been a whole lot less work had I noticed the spreadsheet only sorted one column early on... the date one.

[15:45:14]

ReikoShea:

EE-Poc Fail

[15:45:15]

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[15:48:13]

ajh:

that and if open office would stop crashing.

[15:49:17]

sid3windr:

dot org

[15:51:02]

ReikoShea:

ajh: youre obviously doing it wrong

[15:51:10]

Easy_Rider9999:

Option Option "UseEvents" "True" does not make much differences. If I set live TV to 720x576 the picture is even worse (jumpy). The system monitor shows me that mythbackend is eating up to 60% of CPU power, so it seems to my that mythfrontend doesnt have enough power left for display

[15:51:14]

ajh:

Oh I know what I did wrong.

[15:52:11]

PatrickDK:

Easy_Rider9999, I guess you aren't using a real tv mpeg capture card

[15:52:18]

iamlindoro_:

Easy_Rider9999: Mythbackend is likely using all that CPU because you're using a framegrabber

[15:52:23]

iamlindoro_:

PatrickDK: yup

[15:52:42]

PatrickDK:

I have a frame grabber :)

[15:52:54]

PatrickDK:

I have never ever even thought about using it in mythtv

[15:53:17]

iamlindoro_:

Easy_Rider9999: You can reduce CPU load by purchasing a hardware encoding capture card, and you *may* be able to reduce it somewhat by playing with the encoding options in recording profiles, but I wouldn't expect much improvement from that

[15:53:46]

PatrickDK:

Easy_Rider9999, what speed cpu you using?

[15:53:53]

iamlindoro_:

For best results, you should just get a better card. Digital tuners are NOT a good choice when you're capturing analog material.

[15:54:18]

ajh:

I'd wait and get a 1212 :)

[15:54:46]

Easy_Rider9999:

The hauppauge PVR 150 seems to be pretty good

[15:54:50]

iamlindoro_:

ajh: If he doesn't have the CPU to play back SD from a framegrabber, there is no way in hell he could manage even the lowest bitrate on the HD-PVR

[15:55:07]

iamlindoro_:

Easy_Rider9999: yes, that is a good choice for what you are trying to do.

[15:57:09]

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[15:58:04]

styelz:

how does the fallback deinterlacer work ?

[15:58:23]

styelz:

does it use that if the main deinterlacer fails.. or something else

[15:58:29]

iamlindoro_:

yes

[15:58:41]

styelz:

ok

[15:58:58]

iamlindoro_:

ie if you select a 2x deinterlacer but your screen doesn't support the required refresh rate, then it would fall back to the second.

[15:59:04]

sebrock_:

Is it possible to autotoggle subtitles whenever there is (using .srt in the same dir)? I have my "caption" button on my remote set to nextsubtitle for DVDs. But watching avis doesnt work because I need to toggle it first...

[15:59:06]

styelz:

ah

[15:59:09]

styelz:

i see

[16:00:24]

styelz:

hm

[16:01:19]

styelz:

odd, i get tearing on the picture after a while. if i restart X its fine for a hours, then i notice it will start tearing again. wonder what that is.

[16:02:25]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frame_display_timing

[16:03:23]

styelz:

thanks iamlindoro_

[16:03:53]

styelz:

i wonder if its cause i am forcing the dpms with xset +dpms

[16:04:14]

styelz:

something changes

[16:04:52]

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[16:05:22]

styelz:

ill suss out this sysctl settings anyway

[16:05:42]

styelz:

its a plasma 42"

[16:06:37]

styelz:

using dvi

[16:11:37]

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[16:14:24]

bjb1959:

I have 3 problems on ubuntu hardy. sound is out of sync on livetv, channel guide has "unknown" listed for programs and sound doesn't record any ideas?

[16:16:01]

styelz:

i have it working sweet on hardy here

[16:18:15]

iamlindoro_:

First of all, you probably want #ubuntu-mythtv, where they are legally oblige to be nice to you (not so in this channel). Secondly, Problems one and three are one and the same, you are using a framegrabber and haven't set up audio right as descibed in the manual on mythtv.org. Problem two is you haven't set up a listings source properly and then run mythfilldatabase. All of these point to not having carefully read the manual first.

[16:18:31]

iamlindoro_:

s/oblige/obliged/

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[16:21:19]

styelz:

i cant see any problems in the logs regarding timing issues. and sysctl is at 1024 for the max-user-freq

[16:22:51]

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[16:25:42]

styelz:

no tearing at the moment.. i wonder what causes it

[16:26:59]

iamlindoro_:

styelz: As you say that it gradually drifts out of sync, I would be curious as to whether you're doing any over/underclocking or bus speed manipulation-- just a shot in the dark, though.

[16:27:53]

iamlindoro_:

You may also want to experiment with the OpenGL Vsync features if you haven't already

[16:28:31]

styelz:

yes, i have tried the OpenGL settings too

[16:28:48]

styelz:

i am overclocking the CPU by 100Mhz

[16:28:53]

styelz:

not the GPU

[16:29:53]

styelz:

and i have lowered the FSB from 400 to 380 as the ram is unstable at any higher

[16:30:02]

styelz:

so, maybe a dodgy M/B ?

[16:30:14]

iamlindoro_:

I would wager that the OC and bus speed changes have caused your issue

[16:30:35]

iamlindoro_:

in particular the lowering the FSB

[16:30:42]

styelz:

hmm ok

[16:30:56]

iamlindoro_:

which has the capacity to throw the RTC out of whack, which is related to frame timing, which causes tearing.

[16:31:20]

styelz:

i see

[16:31:48]

bjb1959:

iamlindoro, thanks but I actually did follow the manual but if they will be nice to me at the other channel I can certainly go there if you prefer

[16:32:36]

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[16:32:57]

iamlindoro_:

bjb1959: If you followed the manual, then you would have seen the section that *explicitly* talks about not recording audio/audio out of sync w/ framegrabbers, and would understand why you have "Unknown." But now you know why it occurs, and they can help you nicely in #ubuntu-mythtv

[16:33:47]

iamlindoro_:

1) Audio device not set up properly/passthrough not installed properly, 2) Listings not set up properly/mythfilldatabase not run.

[16:33:54]

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[16:37:24]

bjb1959:

iamlindoro, I will take your advice and go to the other channel, but I have followed step by step the manual and even though it is very poorly documented, did what it said exactly to no avail so I will see if someone on the other site is more knowlegable. thanks for the help though

[16:37:37]

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[16:38:02]

styelz:

iamlindoro: thanks for the help!

[16:38:08]

styelz:

er iamlindoro_

[16:38:13]

iamlindoro_:

styelz: no problem

[16:38:36]

iamlindoro_:

ah, he's going to seek someone more knowledgeable in #ubuntu-mythtv

[16:38:39]

iamlindoro_:

That ought to work

[16:39:02]

iamlindoro_:

sort of like seeking someone more grounded in reality in arkham asylum

[16:39:11]

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[16:39:18]

ReikoShea:

lol

[16:39:25]

justinh:

ugh. is it just me or is inkscape a bit poo at scaling bitmaps?

[16:39:25]

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[16:39:40]

ReikoShea:

i think you enjoy your rtfm moments a little too much, iamlindoro_

[16:42:18]

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[16:44:06]

sebrock_:

Anyone knows if its possible to autotoggle subtitles from srt? (ie no need to press "T"). Or how to use togglesubtitle and nextsubtitle on the same button on remote?

[16:44:48]

justinh:

nah. I don't watch foreign films. I'm ignorant

[16:44:49]

iamlindoro_:

ReikoShea: I don't enjoy them, heck, I even *told* him what the problems were, but it's silly to claim you read the manual when there is a section that *specifically* adresses his issue

[16:45:14]

justinh:

read/skimmed/knew it existed

[16:46:11]

ReikoShea:

yeah...this channel probably hurts me more than helps

[16:47:30]

justinh:

bah inkscape doesn't have a 'duplicate layer' doobry

[16:48:51]

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[16:50:36]

iamlindoro_:

ReikoShea: Oh baby, we don't mean to hurt you. But sometimes you just make us so mad.... You know I love you, baby. Just come home and make me dinner. Come on, baby.

[16:52:00]

ReikoShea:

....

[16:52:33]

ReikoShea:

i was just meaning that i feel more comfortable asking questions than reading docs

[16:52:39]

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[16:53:41]

iamlindoro_:

It's fine to ask questions in here, but the understanding is that it's a LAST line of support, not a first one-- that is to say, read the manual, grasp basic concepts, and firm them up here and you'll do well. Skip the manual entirely and you'll get (multiple) tongue-lashings.

[16:54:05]

iamlindoro_:

I'm neither the worst nor the only one to insist people at least *try* some other avenue first :)

[16:54:17]

ReikoShea:

thats what im saying

[16:54:24]

ReikoShea:

since i sit in here all day while im at work

[16:54:31]

ReikoShea:

i generally wont read the manual

[16:54:49]

ReikoShea:

but if i didnt, id be on google for days...never find my answer and give up

[16:54:54]

ReikoShea:

so...its kind of a trade off

[16:55:20]

iamlindoro_:

Why not split the difference-- google so that you can narrow the problem, mention that when asking, and find the solution here?

[16:55:46]

iamlindoro_:

Nobody in here expects anyone to find every answer from google or the manual (although 99% of them *are* there)

[16:55:56]

iamlindoro_:

We just expect a token effort first.

[16:55:57]

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[16:56:59]

ReikoShea:

lol

[16:57:00]

ReikoShea:

gotcha

[16:57:07]

ReikoShea:

well at least im never on here when im at home

[16:57:15]

ReikoShea:

soooo...i guess the effort will have to be made

[16:57:25]

ReikoShea:

like when i installed trunk last night it couldnt connect to my DB

[16:57:31]

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[16:57:58]

ReikoShea:

qt4.4 doesnt install the right sql module by default...took me forever searching....

[16:58:35]

iamlindoro_:

That's a packaging issue

[16:58:58]

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[16:59:07]

sebrock_:

What do you guys think about the Elisa project? or is that what-we-do-not-speak-of...

[16:59:13]

iamlindoro_:

but semi-understandable-- the QT4 and QT3 packages that do the same thing have changed naming methods in debian and derived distros

[16:59:29]

ReikoShea:

i compiled by source

[16:59:41]

ReikoShea:

it put in 2 sql modules but not the one mythbackend calls

[17:05:20]

justinh:

sebrock_: it doesn't record TV, ergo it's useless for me. plus the times I tried it all it seemed to do was crash and crash

[17:06:03]

justinh:

its ui has improved no end though. it really used to suck. it still sucks, but less now than it first did

[17:06:25]

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[17:06:44]

sebrock_:

justinh, oh I never tried it just watched a demo. UI seems nice now thought

[17:06:56]

sebrock_:

though*

[17:07:20]

Dubstar_04:

Elisa always crashes on me too.

[17:07:26]

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[17:07:34]

sebrock_:

Its the one thing I think mythtv is lacking... a nice UI. Or a more convienient way to create new themes

[17:07:52]

sebrock_:

Themeing today is hell :D

[17:07:56]

justinh:

mythtv is getting a nicer UI

[17:07:58]

ReikoShea:

..........

[17:08:01]

sebrock_:

So I heard

[17:08:16]

sebrock_:

In what way? totally revamped?

[17:08:26]

justinh:

and fwiw I've looked at other OSS projects skins/themes. they're generally awful to work around

[17:08:43]

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[17:08:53]

iamlindoro_:

Giving you the tools to do what you want, yes. But it'll still rely on people to actually *use* said tools.

[17:09:13]

justinh:

sebrock_: for one thing, a lot less is going to be hard-coded meaning that stuff like layouts will be much more flexible. infact it WILL be flexible – unlike now

[17:09:29]

sebrock_:

thats great news

[17:09:36]

Dubstar_04:

justinh, your completely right. mythtv is the most simple to theme for but that will become less true when the new effects are used.

[17:09:57]

justinh:

well, great & not so great. it'll also allow people to do some whacked out stuff. and not in a good way

[17:10:06]

iamlindoro_:

Like Batman themes

[17:10:09]

Dubstar_04:

haha

[17:10:09]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[17:10:12]

justinh:

but in the right hands it'll be great :)

[17:10:16]

Dubstar_04:

ooooohh

[17:10:28]

sebrock_:

I migrated from MediaPortal because of the obvious lacking OS. I think they had pretty nice themes and was easy to edit aswell

[17:10:29]

Dubstar_04:

na na na na na na batman

[17:10:48]

Dubstar_04:

media portal?

[17:10:53]

justinh:

sebrock_: the sheer volume of XML files is awful

[17:10:53]

sebrock_:

But Mythtv is way better in every other aspect

[17:10:55]

Dubstar_04:

that must of been way back

[17:11:14]

sebrock_:

they develop MP still or?

[17:11:18]

justinh:

yup

[17:11:19]

iamlindoro_:

Of course they do

[17:11:32]

sebrock_:

well, talk about craching systems

[17:11:32]

iamlindoro_:

It's almost certainly got more users than Myth

[17:11:57]

Dubstar_04:

Yeah its just there are so many options available to the themer its terrible to theme

[17:12:06]

justinh:

for its userbase it doesn't have many good skins IMHO

[17:12:18]

sebrock_:

because of windows, however it was extremely unstable

[17:12:33]

sebrock_:

maybe you are right

[17:12:43]

Dubstar_04:

mythtv has only got good themes because you (justinh) made them!! ass kiss

[17:12:52]

sebrock_:

haha

[17:13:02]

sebrock_:

no phun intended*

[17:13:14]

kormoc:

justinh, the real trick will be to write a theme editor for myth, so it's auto-generated rather then hand generated

[17:13:14]

justinh:

sebrock_: and the times I tried it, it wasn't exactly unstable but by gawd it seemed clunky. the scrolling seemed jerky, moving items seemed jerky...

[17:13:29]

justinh:

kormoc: I keep saying that'll happen over my dead body

[17:13:33]

sebrock_:

yes, mythtv is fast and very responsive

[17:13:41]

kormoc:

justinh, ooh?

[17:13:50]

justinh:

kormoc: even if it'd make my own life much easier I'm dead against it

[17:13:51]

** kormoc blinks at sebrock_ **

[17:14:06]

sebrock_:

:)

[17:14:11]

kormoc:

justinh, why?

[17:14:17]

Dubstar_04:

I can't see a mythtv theme builder getting developed in the near future

[17:14:19]

ReikoShea:

ooo

[17:14:27]

ReikoShea:

why not?

[17:14:43]

justinh:

kormoc: the ONLY reason I don't like the idea is that I think if it's made TOO easy we'll end up with billions of shite themes like winamp has awful skins

[17:14:45]

ReikoShea:

it actually sounds like a fun project

[17:15:06]

kormoc:

justinh, true, but we don't need to allow crap themes in the official repo and all that jazz

[17:15:08]

ReikoShea:

the hard part will be a preview section

[17:15:18]

justinh:

but then it's hardly difficult now really. replace a few graphics, play with positioning...

[17:15:19]

Dubstar_04:

It will take more maintainance than 3 themes put together!!

[17:15:28]

justinh:

it's not rocket science but it takes dedication

[17:15:43]

sebrock_:

which all deadly lack

[17:15:51]

kormoc:

ReikoShea, it's easy, write an app that uses mythui, buttons to create elements and attach actions, position and all that jazz and then generate

[17:16:19]

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[17:16:47]

sebrock_:

I just thought some of Elisas features was quite nice

[17:17:02]

ReikoShea:

yeah, it doesnt seem like it would be too difficult

[17:17:11]

justinh:

the beauty of OSS is being able to borrow ideas from other places. even better them ;)

[17:17:13]

Dubstar_04:

Would it be possible to get a themer to read the source code and let the user know what elements are needed?

[17:17:18]

ReikoShea:

previewing is all that seems like it would be an issue for me to knock out in a week

[17:17:36]

ReikoShea:

(a week if i didnt have a full time job)

[17:17:46]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: I once planned to write a more extensive theming guide but it all takes time

[17:17:46]

Dubstar_04:

quit your job

[17:17:48]

sebrock_:

a year with that job :D

[17:18:03]

ReikoShea:

more than likely, sebrock_

[17:18:19]

Dubstar_04:

I know i am still making a theme from 12 months ago!!

[17:18:31]

sebrock_:

haha me too!

[17:18:43]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: start reading gbee's commits on ticket 12 if you don't want to be caught out when 0.22 comes along

[17:18:52]

justinh:

I'm starting to catch up now & oh boy

[17:18:57]

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[17:18:59]

sebrock_:

better do that right bow then

[17:19:15]

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[17:19:20]

Dubstar_04:

my problem is that i use mythtv. if i didn't i would have more time to help make it!!

[17:19:35]

justinh:

I watch maybe an hour of TV a day. if that

[17:20:43]

sebrock_:

justinh, a link to that ticket?

[17:20:51]

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[17:21:02]

sebrock_:

nevermind

[17:21:02]

justinh:

I dunno what people see as a big deal in theming anyway. just get in there with a browser, see what all the graphic elements are, plop a screenshot into an editor & start mocking stuff up on top of it. export elements to new files, copy new files into existing base theme.. badabing

[17:21:05]

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[17:23:00]

ReikoShea:

i know how to get myth into the bedroom

[17:23:04]

ReikoShea:

make a theme my wife likes

[17:23:06]

ReikoShea:

mwahahaha

[17:23:22]

Dubstar_04:

I think I will hang up my theming gloves. I have started making some basic plugins so I will be concentrating on adding features as soon as I can make something people will want

[17:23:45]

justinh:

stuff people want? heretic! :D

[17:23:47]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: Eww... you'd make a "Playgirl" theme??? Yikes!

[17:23:53]

ReikoShea:

lol

[17:24:03]

ReikoShea:

She would want a .hack theme

[17:24:20]

ReikoShea:

i can guarantee if i made that she'd let me put a FE in the bedroom

[17:24:30]

ReikoShea:

id put money on it

[17:24:38]

justinh:

one thing mr bat-theme neglected was prolly that at least one of his images is used without permission. big no-no, that

[17:24:41]

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[17:24:48]

Dubstar_04:

Don't bite my head off but I would like to see somthing along the lines of Aeon from XBMC

[17:24:52]

justinh:

legs-wide anybody? :P

[17:25:01]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: Do you have a TV in the bedroom now? If so, why wouldn't she want one?

[17:25:13]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: feature request ignored. no head biting off necessary;)

[17:25:21]

ReikoShea:

yes and she doesnt want to spend money on it

[17:25:39]

justinh:

but seriously what's Aeon ?

[17:25:48]

justinh:

Aeon as in Aeon Flux? :-O

[17:26:04]

ReikoShea:

http://www.vimeo.com/1430130

[17:26:07]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: Well, you can build a SD frontend with spare parts... might not be small & quiet, but it would work... ;-)

[17:26:10]

Dubstar_04:

It wasn't aimed at you justin, more a general comment, i really like the media sensitive backgrounds most

[17:26:40]

justinh:

thing about detailed backgrounds is that they can detract from the onscreen content

[17:26:47]

iamlindoro_:

Grey's Anatomy-wide? wtf

[17:26:56]

Dubstar_04:

ha ha careful!!

[17:27:25]

justinh:

and oh look at all the copyrighted images they've raped!

[17:27:28]

ReikoShea:

J-e-f-f-A|work: I think if i get the xbox setup as a front end, that we'll end up putting our old tower in the bedroom for the front end

[17:28:14]

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[17:28:22]

Dubstar_04:

Justin there is that!! Every major tv program, film and musician. could be costly!!

[17:28:24]

justinh:

anyway.. newsflash – by the look of that menu bar thing, that's possible in mythui

[17:28:53]

iamlindoro_:

also the video gallery view may be possible as I understand it

[17:29:04]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: I had an Xbox running Myth 0.20, it's a bit slow to boot, and menus are a bit slow. But it works quite well otherwise (only 64mb ram in the thing, Celeron 733)

[17:29:07]

justinh:

but all that 'oh we're on a 1080p display so let's use tiny fonts' seems silly too

[17:29:07]

Dubstar_04:

I have made a copy of it for myth already. the problem is that every menu is sideways!!

[17:29:40]

ReikoShea:

J-e-f-f-A|work: Thats fine, I only watch SD anyway, and then I need MythVideo as well

[17:29:41]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

justinh: ^^^ Agreed! ;-)

[17:29:49]

ReikoShea:

as long as I get both of those, im good

[17:30:11]

justinh:

all text still has to be _readable_ from a reasonable distance. never forget that

[17:30:28]

ReikoShea:

mythmusic too...i always forget about that one until i need it

[17:30:36]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: I haven't updated it to 0.21 yet – My son's been using a HD UPnP player for about a year now.

[17:31:14]

justinh:

the scroller thingy is on the table, somewhere under a pile of somebody's to-do list. but it's there alright

[17:31:18]

ReikoShea:

yeah...we're getting a PS3 in december so, the xbox might get relegated to the bedroom when that happens...something tells me the PS3 wont have very many problems

[17:31:33]

justinh:

that said, if anybody wants to come in & do it... the code's all there ;)

[17:31:46]

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[17:31:48]

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[17:31:55]

J-e-f-f-A|work:

ReikoShea: BTW: The xbox has a loud fan... I replaced mine with a temperature-controlled fan, and it still comes on...

[17:32:20]

ReikoShea:

we live by the highway

[17:32:22]

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[17:32:24]

ReikoShea:

we wont even hear that thing

[17:32:27]

ReikoShea:

:-D

[17:34:45]

ReikoShea:

RAWR...wtf....someone put a CVS repo on a production server

[17:34:49]

justinh:

so XBMC has yet another UI offshoot to get a different layout? heheheh.

[17:34:51]

ReikoShea:

ima kill a developer today

[17:35:40]

justinh:

I might scribble up a working example of that menu bar effort just for laughs

[17:36:13]

justinh:

doh. one snag. myth's menu functions are called long names.

[17:36:38]

ReikoShea:

want me to tar up default for you?

[17:36:49]

justinh:

could be worked around with a custom menu theme I suppose but even so...

[17:37:11]

laga:

justinh: just add hypenation support for the menu entries. like in latex ;)

[17:37:17]

justinh:

not having to deal with TV stuff has its blessings I spose

[17:38:05]

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[17:39:47]

justinh:

laga: yeah. I could do that in oooo five minutes! :-<

[17:40:36]

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[17:42:30]

justinh:

never tried just escaping non-xml friendly characters in a theme file. that might 'just work'

[17:43:59]

justinh:

wonder how easy it'd be to have variable length horizontal menu items. probably not

[17:45:16]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: I would be interested to see how you implemented the horizontal scrolling menu-- if you *do* play around with that idea, I'd love to take a look at it. Have been toying with a theme for a while now but would rather have a horizontal layout

[17:45:20]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: just had a proper look at that Aeon. Seriously doesn't look unpossible with mythui

[17:45:54]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: I hate horiztonal menus, so it'd only be a mockup

[17:46:05]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: ah

[17:46:15]

sebrock_:

btw, is it possible to change subtitle size and location when using .srt's in the same dir as avis?

[17:46:44]

justinh:

the plan is, when all the core themes have been converted to mythui there'll be at least one concept theme for people to take apart

[17:46:53]

justinh:

with notes (!)

[17:47:51]

justinh:

sebrock_: font size YES. position, nope

[17:48:46]

justinh:

subtitle position with some forms is strictly dictated by the stream (e.g. in the case of DVD & DVB/ATSC subtitles) so adding a global offset might be tricky

[17:48:55]

iamlindoro_:

Heh, the newest revision of MythTube will do revision3 feeds, that ought to shut people the fuck up for a while

[17:49:14]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: lol. I doubt it

[17:50:37]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: point taken

[17:51:40]

justinh:

sebrock_: it was something I thought about when I was coding the screen setup wiz feature. didn't think too hard about it though ;)

[17:54:29]

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[17:56:20]

troldrik:

Okay, I'm doing something wrong here. The ubuntu packaged mythvideo plays .mp4 videos with x264 and aac audio just fine. But my self compiled myth does not do aac audio. AFD Error: Could not find decoder for codec (AAC), ignoring.

[17:57:14]

justinh:

troldrik: you probably didn't have libaac-dev or whatever when you compiled it

[17:57:36]

iamlindoro_:

troldrik: Some of the libfaad/mp4ff stuff in Ubuntu is a little tricky IIRC, #ubuntu-mythtv would be more help but IIRC you need to get the ubuntu specific patches and apply them to get it to work

[17:58:02]

troldrik:

I got libfaad-dev installed.

[17:58:02]

justinh:

oh yeah libfaad-dev etc

[17:58:21]

justinh:

troldrik: what does ./configure say – that aac support will be included?

[17:58:35]

sebrock_:

justinh, so the answer is no its not possible right now?

[17:58:36]

justinh:

doh that's just for mythmusic IIRC

[17:58:46]

troldrik:

Yeah that's just mythmusic.

[17:59:05]

iamlindoro_:

ah, and there's the obvious step of , when configuring myth, using --enable-libfaad

[17:59:06]

justinh:

sebrock_: no not now. it might be quite easy it might not. yet another setting though. hmpph

[18:00:13]

sebrock_:

justinh, ok. Is it mentioned before? I guess it would be a nice feature

[18:00:55]

justinh:

sebrock_: it might be a nice feature for people with non-dvb subtitles

[18:01:07]

justinh:

but I'd have to ask why the subs are appearing outside of the safe area anyway

[18:01:49]

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[18:01:50]

datadevil:

hi

[18:02:26]

** justinh coughs loudly & starts playing at the piano again **

[18:04:02]

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[18:04:30]

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[18:05:01]

Dubstar_04:

Does anyone know what this means? cannot find -lXv

[18:05:03]

Dubstar_04:

collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

[18:05:05]

Dubstar_04:

make[2]: *** [libmythupnp-0.22.so.0.22.0] Error 1

[18:05:06]

Dubstar_04:

make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/laptop/trunk/mythtv/libs/libmythupnp'

[18:05:08]

Dubstar_04:

make[1]: *** [sub-libmythupnp-make_default-ordered] Error 2

[18:05:09]

Dubstar_04:

make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/laptop/trunk/mythtv/libs'

[18:05:11]

Dubstar_04:

make: *** [sub-libs-make_default-ordered] Error 2

[18:05:19]

iamlindoro_:

It mean your's missing dependencies (and should use pastebin)

[18:05:23]

iamlindoro_:

er you're

[18:05:23]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: it means you need to use a pastebin

[18:05:42]

Dubstar_04:

Sorry

[18:06:02]

Dubstar_04:

Where can I find a list of all the depandancies?

[18:06:04]

datadevil:

my mythtv hangs more or less when I try to watch tv, using mythbuntu and ivtv. I tried to search the mailinglist but to no avail, might # 6 Use "cat /dev/videoX > test.mpg" to test help?

[18:06:28]

iamlindoro_:

What distro are you running, Dubstar_04 ?

[18:06:29]

datadevil:

Dubstar_04: this seems to be something with Xv, so try find a libXv-devel or similair for your distro

[18:06:41]

Dubstar_04:

ubuntu 8.04

[18:06:48]

iamlindoro_:

Dubstar_04: apt-get build-dep mythtv

[18:06:59]

iamlindoro_:

will get you all the deps minus the recent QT4 stuff

[18:08:02]

Dubstar_04:

Thanks guys, its aptitude has just listed about 50 things!!

[18:08:11]

datadevil:

more is better

[18:08:13]

datadevil:

:-P

[18:08:31]

sebrock_:

justinh, dont quite understand what you mean by safe area? I'm talking about .srt subtitles in the same dir as the video

[18:09:27]

iamlindoro_:

sebrock_: He's talking about the "overscan safe" area

[18:09:43]

AndyCap:

the title safe area I guess. :)

[18:09:44]

AndyCap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_safe

[18:09:50]

iamlindoro_:

which is to say, the 80% or so of the screen that can reliably be expected not to be lost to overscan

[18:13:20]

sebrock_:

Strangly my subtitles are shown very very near to the TV bottom.

[18:13:30]

sebrock_:

when using srt's, DVDs are fine

[18:13:35]

justinh:

isn't that controlled in the srt file anyway?

[18:13:43]

iamlindoro_:

Don't get strangly, there's no need for violence

[18:13:52]

datadevil:

hehe

[18:13:56]

sebrock_:

heh

[18:14:03]

sebrock_:

is it?

[18:14:14]

justinh:

sebrock_: I dunno. I was asking ;)

[18:14:29]

sebrock_:

I'll have a look

[18:14:39]

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[18:14:45]

sebrock_:

nope

[18:14:49]

sebrock_:

nothing but timestamps

[18:15:01]

gbee (gbee!n=stuartm@cpc3-derb9-0-0-cust581.leic.cable.ntl.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[18:16:40]

datadevil:

srt is quite simple

[18:18:08]

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[18:18:30]

justinh:

no position data? ouchy

[18:19:10]

gbee:

does anyone happen to know whether thunderbird is any good and whether it supports offline/disconnected/cached imap?

[18:20:12]

iamlindoro_:

gbee: It's quite good, and yes, suppots offline IMAP

[18:20:53]

ReikoShea:

i prefer evolution on my ubuntu systems just because thunderbird crashes under the weight of my inbox

[18:21:11]

ReikoShea:

if i break 50,000 emails, it crashes until i delete some

[18:21:17]

ReikoShea:

thats my only negative experience

[18:22:29]

Dubstar_04:

50000 emails?

[18:22:50]

ReikoShea:

approximately that number

[18:23:13]

Dubstar_04:

I've not had that many emails in the whole of my life!!

[18:23:38]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: violate more license terms :P

[18:23:39]

ReikoShea:

you do if you get emails about server status

[18:23:55]

Dubstar_04:

Ha ha

[18:23:58]

ReikoShea:

HTTP took longer than 2 seconds to respond

[18:24:10]

ReikoShea:

ping response is over 600ms

[18:24:25]

ReikoShea:

god help you if 10 users are logged onto a box at once

[18:24:43]

ReikoShea:

its pretty easy to hit than #

[18:24:49]

ReikoShea:

that #*

[18:25:33]

Dubstar_04:

what is the command to update the trunk source?

[18:25:45]

wagnerrp:

svn update?

[18:25:49]

ReikoShea:

yup

[18:25:55]

Dubstar_04:

not svn up?

[18:25:56]

ReikoShea:

be in trunk/

[18:26:04]

ReikoShea:

svn up or svn update

[18:26:07]

wagnerrp:

svn is the only way youre going to get trunk

[18:26:08]

ReikoShea:

doesnt matter

[18:26:46]

justinh:

svn up == svn update

[18:26:57]

ReikoShea:

werd

[18:27:34]

ReikoShea:

im the guy that types full commands when im working on cisco products

[18:28:21]

sid3windr:

you have to, as it doesn't complete them unlike juniper, and without commit/rollback functionality any typo on a cisco can be fatal ;>

[18:28:52]

ReikoShea:

the new OS tab completes

[18:29:09]

sid3windr:

any ios tab completes, but this requires you to press tab :p

[18:29:12]

ReikoShea:

the old ones didnt, and i didnt feel comfortable shorting a command

[18:29:23]

sid3windr:

junos space-completes

[18:30:08]

Dubstar_04:

how long should it take to compile /trunk/mythtv

[18:30:14]

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[18:30:15]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: what cpu you got?

[18:30:40]

gbee:

iamlindoro_: thanks, I normally use kmail but this new machine runs linpus by default and right now I don't want to fill it up with kde libs

[18:31:14]

justinh:

anyway, those aeon guys not heard of safe areas? pfft

[18:31:16]

Dubstar_04:

P3 1G

[18:31:21]

ReikoShea:

Dubstar_04: took me an hour and 15 minutes to compile trunk yesterday

[18:31:25]

gbee:

in the longer term I might have to since I also want other k* apps

[18:31:25]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: couple of hours maybe

[18:31:31]

ReikoShea:

on a sempron 2000+

[18:31:39]

ReikoShea:

JUST mythtv though

[18:31:46]

ReikoShea:

plugins took another hour and a half

[18:31:47]

Dubstar_04:

ha ha it smells like it might not last that long!!

[18:31:49]

gbee:

*cough* ccache *cough*

[18:31:50]

justinh:

Dubstar_04: but take heart, with ccache, additional compiles take less time

[18:32:20]

justinh:

ccache means only the changes are re-compiled

[18:32:31]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: c'mon you know we all run 1080p LCDs now, derrrrrrrrrr

[18:32:59]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: which don't overscan – not even a tiddly little bit?

[18:33:13]

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[18:33:16]

gbee:

oh F**K, just accidently uninstalled yum because I typed it twice on the command line – what sort of package manager uninstalls itself??

[18:33:30]

justinh:

yuk, yuk

[18:33:30]

ReikoShea:

ROFL

[18:33:32]

iamlindoro_:

justinh: I paid for my Sony Bravia Ultria SuperFellatimax flat panel!!! It has MOAR PIXLS!

[18:33:49]

AndyCap:

justinh: if the people making the standards had gotten their heads out of their asses we could have had pixelmapping. but nooo.

[18:34:19]

gbee:

guess I need to use the recovery disk for the second time tonight :(

[18:34:29]

Dubstar_04:

More compile errors!! http://paste.ubuntu.com/39477/

[18:34:30]

justinh:

bummer

[18:34:38]

ReikoShea:

gbee: that right there should be incentive to move to a debian based system

[18:34:56]

iamlindoro_:

Dubstar_04: don't svn up from a qt4 myth

[18:35:03]

iamlindoro_:

you are dealing with old qt3 cruft

[18:35:08]

gbee:

ReikoShea: debian? yuk, I'm sticking with linpus right now since I don't want to lose my 17 second boot

[18:35:11]

iamlindoro_:

er don't svn up from a qt3 myth, that is

[18:35:36]

gbee:

but when I'm confident that I can get similar battery performance and boot times I'll switch to mandriva

[18:35:50]

ReikoShea:

gbee: then you get crappy package management

[18:35:55]

ReikoShea:

apt > all

[18:36:03]

laga:

gbee: ACPI S3 for the win ;)

[18:36:03]

gbee:

urpmi is just fine thanks :)

[18:36:15]

ReikoShea:

dont get me wrong

[18:36:22]

ReikoShea:

i wish my laptop had battery life

[18:36:23]

ReikoShea:

i do

[18:36:45]

ReikoShea:

but i just like an intuitive system that knows i dont want to uninstall my packagemanger

[18:37:15]

Dubstar_04:

I am in trunk

[18:37:19]

justinh:

now. where was I?

[18:37:29]

gbee:

laga: hmm, maybe for short spells but I hate wasting battery on suspend when I can just as easily turn it on/off

[18:37:29]

ReikoShea:

uninstalling qt3?

[18:37:57]

Dubstar_04:

yeah i had this problem last week i think it eas qt3

[18:38:00]

Dubstar_04:

thanks

[18:38:07]

ReikoShea:

yup

[18:38:19]

ReikoShea:

4.4 takes forever to compile

[18:38:22]

ReikoShea:

just an fyi

[18:38:27]

ReikoShea:

it stole my soul

[18:38:41]

iamlindoro_:

there is no need to uninstall qt3 to compile trunk

[18:38:51]

ReikoShea:

5:15–11:30 yesterday to compile 4.4

[18:39:09]

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[18:39:15]

ReikoShea:

i thought trunk was 4.3+ dependent....

[18:39:22]

iamlindoro_:

just do a clean checkout, and make sure it uses qmake-qt4.

[18:39:37]

iamlindoro_:

it is 4.3 dependent... doesn't mean you need to do ANYTHING to your existing qt3 install

[18:39:37]

ReikoShea:

why leave the old crap?

[18:39:55]

ReikoShea:

i unno...maybe im old fashioned

[18:40:06]

iamlindoro_:

if the only thing in your system which compiles against three is myth, then fire away.

[18:40:14]

iamlindoro_:

But it's a waste of a step and totally unnecessary

[18:40:21]

iamlindoro_:

and will solve *nothing*

[18:41:07]

ReikoShea:

im not all that familiar with qt, just stating that it seems strange to use the old version when 4 has reverse compatibility...or at least thats what the docs say online

[18:41:21]

ReikoShea:

(really not trying to argue...you're probably right about it being a waste)

[18:41:26]

iamlindoro_:

you try compiling .21 against qt4 and tell me how that goes :)

[18:41:34]

iamlindoro_:

tell me how that backwards compat works out

[18:42:02]

Dubstar_04:

anyone got any suggestions?

[18:42:07]

datadevil:

me me

[18:42:11]

datadevil:

my mythtv hangs more or less when I try to watch tv, using mythbuntu and ivtv. I tried to search the mailinglist but to no avail, might # 6 Use "cat /dev/videoX > test.mpg" to test help?

[18:42:18]

iamlindoro_:

Dubstar_04: I've already told you

[18:42:34]

wagnerrp:

they have routines to make it easier to convert from 3 to 4, but its not direct compatibility, its not even source compatibility

[18:42:34]

iamlindoro_:

check out fresh, make sure you have all the qt4 dev stuff installed, and you should be fine.

[18:42:53]

Dubstar_04:

Ok back asap thanks

[18:43:05]

iamlindoro_:

I'll wait with baited breath

[18:43:05]

datadevil:

lol

[18:43:06]

datadevil:

sorry

[18:43:15]

datadevil:

I read 'anybody have any questions'

[18:43:20]

datadevil:

instead of suggestions

[18:43:24]

** datadevil giggles **

[18:43:28]

iamlindoro_:

datadevil: all the answers you need are likely in your mythbackend.log

[18:43:41]

datadevil:

k

[18:43:44]

datadevil:

that helps

[18:43:52]

datadevil:

as I had no idea where to start

[18:44:24]

iamlindoro_:

and if nothing's out of place there, then you should check the frontend log, which you can see by opening a terminal and running "mythfrontend." the relevant info will then scroll to the terminal.

[18:45:44]

iamlindoro_:

that is to say, run "mythfrontend" and then make it hang, then swap back to the terminal with alt-tab and see what's up. or, if it hangs the machine, you can run "mythfrontend -v all -l somefile.log" and look at somefile.log when the machine comes back up.

[18:46:05]

datadevil:

ok

[18:46:06]

datadevil:

good tips

[18:46:13]

** datadevil copy pastes for testing it in a bit **

[18:46:41]

iamlindoro_:

Problems with reording or accessing the capture card will be in backend log, problems with *displaying* it (which may be the case here) will be in the frontend log

[18:46:45]

iamlindoro_:

er recording

[18:50:14]

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datadevil:

iamlindoro_: thanks, dont have the possibility to test now, but I'm sure your help put me on the right track

[19:07:14]

iamlindoro_:

datadevil: at the very least that should get you the info you need to solve it

[19:07:22]

iamlindoro_:

or get the help to solve it :)

[19:07:41]

datadevil:

yup

[19:07:43]

datadevil:

sounds like ti

[19:07:43]

datadevil:

it

[19:08:16]

datadevil:

i'm hoping to set this up, then try xbmc on the same machine as the frontend, as I like that for other AV stuff as well, and then also try streaming livetv to my lappy

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[19:39:03]

justinh:

!trout inkscape dirty-paste

[19:39:03]

** MythLogBot slaps inkscape with a dirty-paste trout on behalf of justinh... **

[19:39:28]

justinh:

dropping an svn into an existing drawing is screwing up the shading. grrr

[19:39:38]

justinh:

s/svn/svg

[19:40:00]

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[19:42:59]

justinh:

eh? what's with not being able to paste between windows?

[19:43:29]

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[19:44:49]

justinh:

one drawing, one palette :(

[19:46:17]

s34n:

Myth was running pretty smoothly when I first installed it, but...

[19:46:35]

s34n:

I was playing with settings and it started running very slowly

[19:46:39]

justinh:

awww

[19:46:48]

justinh:

lesson learned. don't play with the settings :)

[19:46:54]

s34n:

menus take seconds to respong to keystrokes, etc.

[19:47:07]

s34n:

s/respong/respond/

[19:47:11]

justinh:

er.. that's not really a setting change related problem

[19:47:44]

s34n:

Well, I'm just trying for full disclosure

[19:47:53]

s34n:

I did mess with myth settings

[19:48:14]

s34n:

But I can't think what would cause the UI to be so sluggish

[19:48:52]

s34n:

Any ideas where to start looking?

[19:49:07]

s34n:

(I've tried to set everything back the way it was.)

[19:49:37]

s34n:

I've obviously done something to change the behavior, but I can't find it.

[19:49:48]

justinh:

low on ram?

[19:49:52]

justinh:

swapping much?

[19:50:19]

wagnerrp:

did you change skins? possibly to mepo?

[19:50:48]

clever:

now do do something my system is in bad need of, resize the root fs

[19:51:05]

justinh:

_themes_ if you please. winamp has skins :)

[19:51:07]

wagnerrp:

i apologize justinh, rather themes

[19:51:39]

wagnerrp:

heh... i saw that coming

[19:51:48]

clever:

what exactly is the diff:P

[19:52:18]

wagnerrp:

a skin just changes the look, a theme changes the layout and behavior

[19:52:42]

clever:

ive seen winamp skins rearranging half the buttons

[19:53:01]

wagnerrp:

winamp 3/5 has more of themes

[19:53:03]

ReikoShea:

but it doesnt change their function

[19:53:04]

wagnerrp:

winamp 2 had skins

[19:53:15]

clever:

ahh

[19:53:33]

clever:

and how exactly do i add a 'make cheesebuger' button to mythtv with a theme:P

[19:53:40]

clever:

(cant change the function much still)

[19:53:46]

ReikoShea:

very carefully

[19:53:55]

ReikoShea:

lots of lubricant

[19:53:58]

clever:

lol

[19:54:23]

wagnerrp:

but really, its just to make justinh feel he is above the level of the creators of brittney spears winamp skins

[19:54:35]

ReikoShea:

lol

[19:54:39]

ReikoShea:

dont give it away

[19:54:43]

clever:

lol

[19:54:48]

ReikoShea:

justin was feeling good about him self

[19:55:15]

justinh:

feel? I blimmin am!

[19:55:33]

justinh:

ooo look what I did in paint! :D

[19:55:56]

clever:

2008-08–21 10:02:01.243 scheduler: Finished recording: How It's Made: channel 1045

[19:55:59]

clever:

*** glibc detected *** mythbackend: malloc(): memory corruption: 0x08723ee9 ***

[19:56:03]

clever:

======= Backtrace: =========

[19:56:20]

ReikoShea:

fail

[19:56:33]

clever:

its been doing this all week

[19:56:48]

ReikoShea:

maybe try different ram?

[19:57:17]

clever:

the system has never had the problem until after the dist-upgrade

[19:58:38]

iamlindoro_:

It has that problem because *you* can't resist screwing with it

[19:59:05]

clever:

how exactly did i corrupt the memory?

[19:59:15]

ReikoShea:

you looked at it wrong

[19:59:23]

justinh:

bah. I can't be bothered with revamping these icons in inkscrape

[19:59:25]

ReikoShea:

it might be a bad c library or something

[19:59:27]

clever:

its not even in the same room

[19:59:37]

clever:

i havent seen the system in hours

[20:00:14]

justinh:

drop a new shape you already drew into a button drawing... and it automagically messes up the colour palette. grr

[20:01:01]

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[20:01:19]

andreax1:

justinh: hehe, that reminds me to old amiga times and the crazy ham-mode... :)

[20:02:12]

justinh:

I had intended to make a new master watermark SVG with every icon on its own layer. inkscrape has other ideas unfortunately

[20:02:26]

s34n:

wagnerrp: I changed themes, but I put back the original

[20:02:40]

justinh:

s34n: have you tried restarting mythfrontend?

[20:02:58]

s34n:

justinh: not even a reboot fixes it

[20:03:10]

justinh:

oh did you change the theme painter to opengl?

[20:03:21]

justinh:

try mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[20:03:51]

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[20:05:42]

s34n:

justinh: I had changed it to opengl, then back to qt

[20:06:10]

justinh:

well, there's nothing else anybody can really suggest

[20:08:39]

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[20:09:00]

dpick:

is it possible for myth to contintue to scroll if one of the arrows is held down on a remote

[20:09:17]

justinh:

dpick: read the lirc docs, particularly about _delay_ and _repeat_

[20:09:27]

dpick:

thansk

[20:09:28]

dpick:

thanks

[20:10:21]

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[20:10:46]

hachi:

does mythtv depend on MyISAM as it's storage engine, or did it just use that because it was the default in my mysql config?

[20:11:01]

justinh:

just the default AFAIK

[20:11:12]

justinh:

like it makes much difference in this context

[20:11:56]

justinh:

well well well facebook. adding somebody as a friend on my behalf is the last straw. FOAD, Mr Facebook. F O A D

[20:12:39]

ReikoShea:

ive always liked die in a fire

[20:13:44]

s34n:

even the transitions between menus can take 30+ seconds to fade between

[20:14:01]

directhex:

i like "go catch cancer"

[20:14:11]

justinh:

oh how about that you're still on the opengl painter s34n

[20:14:32]

justinh:

and your opengl is er.. well BROKEN to say the least if it's that slow

[20:14:58]

justinh:

I did suggest trying mythfrontend -O ThemePainter=qt

[20:15:25]

s34n:

justinh: ok. it says Qt, but I will try it from the command line instead

[20:15:46]

justinh:

s34n: needs a restart of mythfrontend for the change to take effect

[20:16:20]

justinh:

which again is why I asked if you'd tried restarting mythfrontend ;)

[20:17:20]

wagnerrp:

FOAD?

[20:17:31]

iamlindoro_:

F off and die

[20:17:42]

iamlindoro_:

< – Shows restraint, dislikes it

[20:18:34]

ReikoShea:

lol...what comes up if you type foad in google....first hit....the definition

[20:18:41]

ReikoShea:

RTFM M8

[20:19:28]

wagnerrp:

oh im sorry... there is no manual for slang. but we would have accepted RTFG... :P

[20:19:37]

ReikoShea:

urban dictionary

[20:19:47]

s34n:

justinh: thanks

[20:20:21]

s34n:

justinh: sorry to mislead you. It said Qt and I had actually rebooted

[20:20:32]

wagnerrp:

well search anything on urban dictionary and you usually end up with a dozen different answers

[20:20:33]

s34n:

justinh: but you were right

[20:20:52]

s34n:

justinh: it works much better now. thx

[20:23:12]

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[20:25:42]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: restraint is the new me. wanna arrange a sweepstake for the day postal is reached?

[20:26:23]

** iamlindoro_ lays his money on the next elections **

[20:26:32]

ReikoShea:

......

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[21:01:48]

LanUser:

Is anyone here using an ATCS signal distribution amplifier?

[21:01:58]

mkrufky:

ATSCm you mean LanUser?

[21:02:00]

LanUser:

make that *ATSC*

[21:02:05]

iamlindoro_:

Good lord no

[21:02:15]

mkrufky:

grr i typo'd too

[21:02:27]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[21:02:32]

mkrufky:

anyway, i have an awesome drop-amp that i recommended to many people and they all love it

[21:02:36]

mkrufky:

iamlindoro_: , included

[21:02:45]

iamlindoro_:

yes, me included-- it rules

[21:02:50]

mkrufky:

except.... i never tried it with ATSC — i only tried it with QAM Annex-B

[21:03:01]

mkrufky:

but im sure it would work with ATSC just as well

[21:03:11]

mkrufky:

for ATSC, I used this inline amp that I bought from BBTI

[21:03:22]

mkrufky:

...and thats really only for testing

[21:03:35]

mkrufky:

i never use ATSC for normal use — thats why I have cable

[21:03:36]

iamlindoro_:

I live on a hill and the hill is between me and the towers... which are 50 miles away. Ugh.

[21:03:52]

mkrufky:

iamlindoro_: do you use that 8-way drop amp for ATSC ?

[21:03:58]

iamlindoro_:

Nope, QAM

[21:04:01]

mkrufky:

ok

[21:04:07]

mkrufky:

btw... my stuff will be here tomorrow!

[21:04:11]

** mkrufky so excited **

[21:04:14]

iamlindoro_:

nice! You'll have a busy weekend

[21:04:24]

mkrufky:

heh yeah

[21:04:41]

mkrufky:

actually... it really shouldnt be much work

[21:04:58]

iamlindoro_:

Oh please, you'll be tweaking for weeks ;)

[21:05:05]

mkrufky:

well yeah — thats for sure

[21:05:06]

iamlindoro_:

up until the TV Season, I wager

[21:05:10]

mkrufky:

ha

[21:05:14]

mkrufky:

then all hands off

[21:05:20]

iamlindoro_:

Me too

[21:05:25]

mkrufky:

which is the first show to come back?

[21:05:26]

iamlindoro_:

still lots of time though

[21:05:28]

mkrufky:

(or start)

[21:05:37]

iamlindoro_:

I dunno... Something is 9/22... The Office Maybe?

[21:05:38]

mkrufky:

is it prison break and fringe on 9/8 ?

[21:05:42]

mkrufky:

9/22 is heroes

[21:05:59]

iamlindoro_:

Ah, the Office also that date I think... Pushing Daisies is back in alte Sept also

[21:06:00]

mkrufky:

sounds like FOX comes back 2nd week and NBC comes back 4th week

[21:06:08]

mkrufky:

really?? awesome

[21:06:14]

mkrufky:

i love it when too much tv is on

[21:06:26]

mkrufky:

especially when its shows that nobody cares about in the office

[21:06:40]

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[21:06:47]

mkrufky:

that means i can watch them in bed weeks later without anybody ruining them for me

[21:07:12]

mkrufky:

right now, the only show that i must see on the night of, is HEROES

[21:07:17]

justinh:

oh well. no more love for inkscape

[21:07:23]

mkrufky:

of course LOST also, but that doesnt matter until Jan

[21:07:28]

mkrufky:

inkscape?

[21:07:39]

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[21:07:42]

mkrufky:

when does Caprica start, iamlindoro_ ?

[21:07:47]

dupondje:

Can't use string ("1") as an ARRAY ref while "strict refs" in use at /usr/bin/tv_grab_be line 1376.

[21:07:51]

dupondje:

any id how to fix this one :)

[21:08:09]

justinh:

mkrufky: copy/paste issues. it's botching the colours/gradients

[21:08:19]

iamlindoro_:

mkrufky: I have nooo idea

[21:08:19]

mkrufky:

oh, i thought it was a tv show :-P

[21:08:30]

mkrufky:

i thin BSG comes back in october, but thats just rumors

[21:08:33]

justinh:

rofl

[21:09:02]

ReikoShea:

what version is that dupondje?

[21:09:21]

dupondje:

XMLTV module version 0.5.52

[21:09:21]

dupondje:

This is tv_grab_be.in version 1.14, 2008/06/08 21:10:17

[21:11:08]

dupondje:

cfr http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=482839

[21:12:57]

LanUser:

mkrufky: what's the drop-amp that you recommend?

[21:13:32]

iamlindoro_:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PCT-8-PORT-CABLE-TV-DIGIT . . . p3286.c0.m14

[21:13:36]

iamlindoro_:

That 'un

[21:16:00]

ReikoShea:

sorry im not familiar with xmltv, but it sounds like your xml channel guide isnt comming back at all (if i understand what its doing)

[21:16:21]

LanUser:

iamlindoro_: thanks, not a bad price either

[21:16:34]

iamlindoro_:

yup, good price. I paid $30 I think

[21:16:50]

dupondje:

fixxed it by adding: no strict "refs";

[21:16:50]

dupondje:

:p

[21:16:58]

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[21:17:43]

ReikoShea:

its odd that it was strict before and now it being strict breaks it

[21:18:08]

mkrufky:

LanUser: the one in the link that iamlindoro_ posted

[21:18:10]

ReikoShea:

i learned a long time ago commenting use strict is a bandaid that usually comes back to bite you in the arse

[21:25:31]

LanUser:

mkrufky: ok thanks

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[21:52:47]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: oh there you go. mythtube now intended to be similar to .. I can't even say it

[21:53:09]

iamlindoro_:

hahaha

[21:53:32]

iamlindoro_:

He knows not what he says, but he's doing good work, so I say hooray

[21:53:39]

justinh:

Miro

[21:53:42]

justinh:

arghhhhhhhhh

[21:54:39]

justinh:

ok. miro without the torrents would be fine I spose

[21:55:01]

iamlindoro_:

That's more or less what he's got it doing

[21:55:06]

iamlindoro_:

It's really not half bad

[21:55:09]

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[21:55:22]

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[21:55:53]

justinh:

well, I'll drink to it not going as far as that ocracy BS ;)

[21:56:04]

iamlindoro_:

ah, ocracy

[21:56:14]

iamlindoro_:

memories of Myth's WAY past

[21:57:32]

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[21:57:46]

iamlindoro_:

I may even have to find out if there are actual watchable video podcasts

[21:57:56]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: systm, for one

[21:58:03]

iamlindoro_:

Yeah, that seemed decent

[21:58:12]

justinh:

that's one more than I thought I'd ever see

[21:58:21]

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[21:58:37]

iamlindoro_:

WineLibrary TV is actually pretty good

[21:59:01]

justinh:

a whine blog? ;)

[21:59:09]

iamlindoro_:

And, of course, How to do girls

[21:59:17]

justinh:

lol

[21:59:18]

iamlindoro_:

Which is in theory "How-to-do Girls"

[21:59:23]

iamlindoro_:

no, for serious

[21:59:33]

iamlindoro_:

www.howtodogirls.com/

[21:59:39]

justinh:

'do' as in be, temporarily? :P

[21:59:44]

iamlindoro_:

Household projects done by girls in panties

[21:59:58]

iamlindoro_:

Can't beat that.

[22:00:12]

justinh:

sorry I read household objects ...

[22:00:14]

iamlindoro_:

And liberal use of double entendre-- pretty funny actually

[22:00:23]

iamlindoro_:

Oh that's likely on the intarwebs too

[22:01:02]

iamlindoro_:

Home home home

[22:01:04]

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[22:01:15]

justinh:

oh wait. I could be trying mythtube already. I have twunk

[22:01:36]

justinh:

tomorrow!

[22:03:11]

hadees:

mythtube is going to do rss downloading?

[22:03:12]

hadees:

neat

[22:06:58]

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[22:08:29]

gbee_:

already hate thunderbird :)

[22:09:09]

hadees:

its better then outlook

[22:10:31]

gbee_:

looking on the bright side

[22:10:35]

gbee_:

;)

[22:10:58]

hadees:

gbee_, also it is as easy to modify as firefox

[22:11:14]

hadees:

i've written thunderbird extensions before

[22:12:03]

gbee_:

hadees: well unfortunately not, I can't get it to thread correctly, added the config options to override the default (and stupid) behaviour but it's just ignoring it

[22:13:00]

gbee_:

if it won't thread correctly that's a deal breaker for me and I'll have to find a way to stick kmail on the device

[22:15:08]

gbee_:

guess I'll just save myself the hassle and go straight to kmail

[22:15:25]

hadees:

gbee_, try going to mozilla's irc channel for thunderbird

[22:15:35]

hadees:

they are pretty good and might be able to help you

[22:15:43]

hadees:

i personally have moved to webmail

[22:16:17]

gbee_:

webmail isn't secure and isn't really suitable for my imap setup

[22:17:11]

gbee_:

sticking with kmail, just easier that way, I know it, it works

[22:17:14]

hadees:

eh, nothing is really secure

[22:17:43]

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[22:18:24]

gbee_:

hadees: well depends on the webmail I guess, what I mean is that I'd never use gmail, yahoo, hotmail etc since they don't guarentee that your mail will be kept private

[22:20:59]

gbee_:

at least using my own paid for hosting company to deal with my email, storing it on my own servers etc, it's less likely to end up in the hands of some script kiddie who works out how to exploit the security of some popular webmail software or provider

[22:21:01]

hadees:

so when is mythtube getting RSS support?

[22:21:22]

hadees:

gbee_, yeah but what are they really going to do with your mail

[22:21:48]

gbee_:

hadees: don't understand the question

[22:21:52]

hadees:

sure identity theft but if you ever bought anything online then you are already screwed

[22:22:08]

gbee_:

hadees: I don't believe that ;)

[22:22:33]

hadees:

gbee_, i mean i could wrap myself in bubblewrap so i don't ever get a scratch

[22:22:43]

gbee_:

however it's more business or personal email, passwords etc than receipts from online stores

[22:23:22]

hadees:

gbee_, maybe business but what is a script kiddie going to do with your personal email unless you think someone might have a personal grudge against you

[22:25:06]

gbee_:

hadees: sure, but we all take the precautions that we feel necessary, I don't take security to an extreme but I'm certainly not going to chance something as important as my personal correspondance to someone who not only won't guarentee it's safety, but in some cases (google) actively exploits that private information

[22:25:31]

gbee_:

hadees: lets not have this debate, it's really pretty boring ;)

[22:26:06]

hadees:

lol, ok tell me when i can use mythtube to download video files from rss feeds automatically

[22:26:20]

gbee_:

not to mention the fact that if they lose those emails, (hundreds, thousands)

[22:26:32]

gbee_:

my last word on the subject ;)

[22:26:47]

gbee_:

no idea about mythtube, only glanced at the code

[22:26:53]

hadees:

i hord videos no time for email

[22:28:25]

hadees:

i am really surprised, and by really surprised i mean not actually, there would be a backlash against mythtube for adding that support even though it is totally legal

[22:29:14]

hadees:

everyone always sees the glass half empty

[22:29:54]

gbee_:

backlash? I'm missing something?

[22:30:53]

hadees:

gbee_, i'm sort of exaggerating at this point although in previous debates on this issue many have come against it

[22:31:23]

hadees:

because RSS downloading could in theory be used for piracy

[22:32:25]

gbee_:

in the past people have tried to tie torrents and illegal rss feeds in with the legal stuff (because they wanted the illegal stuff but to do it under the cover of legimate functionality)

[22:33:14]

gbee_:

so yeah, in the past when the subject has come up we've shot people down because a) they weren't actually prepared to do the work b) they really wanted the illegal stuff

[22:33:22]

hadees:

gbee_, you are probably right

[22:34:08]

gbee_:

this guy has done the work and hasn't attempted to add support for the illegal rss feeds, at least not publically

[22:34:28]

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[22:35:05]

hadees:

i guess i don't like the idea of not doing something legal because it could be used for illegal activities

[22:35:40]

gbee_:

if we feel it to be necessary, then before it becomes official we'll hardcode the scripts/sources to known legal sites – we have to cover our backs after all

[22:35:50]

Dagmar:

That's what's called a "chilling effect"

[22:36:05]

hadees:

gbee_, hardcoding would suck

[22:36:22]

Dagmar:

hadees: Yeah but the alternative is risk getting sued

[22:36:57]

hadees:

Dagmar, yeah but is that an actual risk that they have talked to lawyers about?

[22:36:57]

Dagmar:

Do what you gotta do to keep the lawyers off your lawn.

[22:37:01]

gbee_:

hardcoding/signing approved scripts etc, it's the only way – people will still modify the source but we can't be accused of making it easier for thieves

[22:37:48]

Dagmar:

hadess: I'd say it depends on the type of coverage it gets.

[22:39:08]

hadees:

what if mythtv just had a plugin that displayed recently added videos to like mythvideo

[22:39:30]

Dagmar:

Strong language (and by which, I mean "R-rated") language in comments in the source to the effect of "If you modify this to pirate things, you're an asshole because the lawyers are more likely to come after *us* than you for *your* actions." so that MAYBE if someone from say Wired should pick up on it, they will know the official stance without having to risk someone deciding it would be more "newsworthy" to not mention it

[22:39:31]

hadees:

that way it wouldn't matter how they were added, and people could do what they want

[22:40:05]

Dagmar:

Big news coverage about a piracy-centric modification would likely be decidedly not good should you not be able to get the "this is not for piracy, noobs" meme out in front of it.

[22:40:19]

hadees:

i guess i'm the only person who used to download Rev3 shows via RSS + bittorrent

[22:40:27]

Dagmar:

No, you're not.

[22:40:28]

iamlindoro:

There ya go, tested, MythTube works with Revision3. Now the people asking for it will all be trying to run trunk. Halle-frickin-lujah

[22:40:46]

hadees:

iamlindoro, it works with Rev3?

[22:40:49]

iamlindoro:

yes

[22:40:56]

hadees:

awesome!

[22:40:57]

Dagmar:

The overriding factor I think is still that people like MediaSentry are basically bad actors.

[22:40:59]

hadees:

thats really all i wanted

[22:41:16]

Dagmar:

Remember, MediaSentry found it necessary to create copyright violation circumstances when none were available.

[22:41:22]

hadees:

iamlindoro, does it only download when you want to watch it or can it download ahead of time?

[22:41:28]

iamlindoro:

Now to fix the horrid broken-ness of his wide theme

[22:41:37]

Dagmar:

Eventually, the FBI will probably come down on them for RICO, but it'll take time

[22:41:42]

iamlindoro:

hadees, on demand for now, he's adding functionality to auto-download

[22:42:21]

Dagmar:

You also have to consider that Big Media has a vested interest in any project not under their direct control facilitating a new channel for simple media distribution.

[22:43:01]

gbee_:

hadees: I think it's been argued many times that users should simply download stuff themselves to a mythvideo folder, but it's never satisfied them

[22:43:18]

Dagmar:

Revision3 was making that happening, and not to sound like a conspiracy fiend, but I think that had no small part in why MediaSentry started targeting them.

[22:43:37]

Dagmar:

gbee: That kind of gives an un-level playing field.

[22:43:53]

Dagmar:

Hulu users can just click on things and "it just plays"

[22:43:57]

Dagmar:

Joost users, same thing

[22:44:33]

Dagmar:

All the pieces for reasonably-automatic video podcast distribution are already in place, except for the last mile bit.

[22:45:01]

Dagmar:

...cuz everyone's worrying about what the lawyers are going to do, which is a very reasonable concern.

[22:45:02]

hadees:

gbee_, its like saying someone shouldn't use mythtv instead use a vcr and a timer

[22:45:06]

Dagmar:

I don't trust those fuckers one bit.

[22:45:19]

hadees:

gbee_, its nice to have one thing for all your media needs

[22:45:44]

Dagmar:

Something _really_ worth running at home won't just attract users, it'll attract more quality coders.

[22:46:09]

hadees:

gbee_, if you strip away everything, at it's core what i really wanted was something that just would tell me when new files were added to mythvideo

[22:46:24]

hadees:

similar to the recent recordings view

[22:46:47]

Dagmar:

It'll also help companies like Revision3 which appear to have a stable business model based on distribution of legitmate homebrew content.

[22:47:08]

gbee_:

hadees: I agree with the idea of having everything in one place, I'm in no way opposed to the mythtube plugin so long as it's not massively abused

[22:47:23]

Dagmar:

...who would then be more likely to throw coders onto problems... coders getting paid.

[22:48:03]

gbee_:

hadees: well that's easy, if I get time I might even add it as part of the mythvideo mythui port (well I'm there already)

[22:48:46]

hadees:

gbee_, mythtube is a good compromise in my opinion, although hard coding feeds seems kind of extreme, i don't know of any piracy sites that do direct downloads

[22:49:42]

hadees:

gbee_, i was going to ask that, does mythtube have to use mplayer? why not just use what mythvideo uses

[22:49:44]

gbee_:

I actually want to harmonise all the main media views, mythvideo, mythmusic, recordings etc so they share features like filters and behave similarly

[22:50:05]

Dagmar:

gbee: That would probably call for a unified table of all media

[22:50:06]

hadees:

gbee_, that would be nice, mythmusic could use a UI redesign

[22:50:23]

gbee_:

hadees: it should use the internal player, no idea why it's using mplayer, I would guess because someone doesn't like the seeking in MKV issues that ffmpeg has

[22:50:29]

janneg:

gbee_: there a new firmware for the Nova-T 500 which fixes the I2C errors and disconnects

[22:51:05]

gbee_:

janneg: good to know, although I've not had many problems in the last 5 months

[22:51:10]

hadees:

gbee_, the internal one? that doesn't really support that many codecs does it?

[22:51:17]

janneg:

I think I haven't seen any since the usb bugfix in iirc 2.6.24.2

[22:51:38]

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[22:51:46]

gbee_:

hadees: well mythmusic will definately get a UI design, might not go as far as I want, but it's kinda required anyway as part of the mythui port

[22:52:09]

gbee_:

hadees: umm, it supports pretty much everything

[22:52:13]

janneg:

gbee_: http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_W . . . 500#Firmware

[22:52:17]

gbee_:

janneg: thanks

[22:52:37]

hadees:

gbee_, really? i guess i'm stuck back in the days when i had to use xine or mplayer for mythvideo

[22:53:03]

gbee_:

we're actually discussing removing the external player support entirely

[22:54:06]

gbee_:

but since 0.21 mythvideo has used internal by default, in 0.22 mythmusic will use internal for playback of all audio codecs, the internal player is recommended (and the default) for DVDs etc

[22:54:06]

hadees:

gbee_, then you would be on the hook in the case where it can't play something

[22:54:18]

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[22:54:34]

kormoc:

the big thing I want to see/code is a mythmusic pretty screen thing that plays videos (so I can play music videos via mythmusic)

[22:54:40]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: I checked the source the default for videos is still mplayer

[22:54:44]

GreyFoxx:

but internal for dvds

[22:55:14]

hadees:

yeah i know dvds were played by internal

[22:55:37]

gbee_:

GreyFoxx: shouldn't be, Anduin changed it about a year or more ago

[22:55:52]

GreyFoxx:

my copy of -fixes has mplayer as the default

[22:56:07]

gbee_:

mplayer might be the default for unknown media types, but all the known types should be internal

[22:56:11]

GreyFoxx:

I'm pretty sure he only changed the default for dvd's back then

[22:56:15]

gbee_:

that can probably change for 0.22

[22:57:47]

GreyFoxx:

mythvideo/globablsettings.cpp *VideoDefaultPlayer() has mplayer in it

[22:58:06]

GreyFoxx:

but I think the default should be Internal

[22:58:19]

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[22:59:21]

gbee_:

GreyFoxx: I'll take a look, I know he did more than change the DVD default, but it's possible that it was just something like a DB update which modified the value for certak filetype

[22:59:24]

gbee_:

certain

[23:00:34]

gbee_:

default should be internal even if it can't handle a particular codec since that at least allows packagers to ship without requiring an external player

[23:00:38]

hadees:

anyone have any idea who actually makes the ATI Remote Wonder and the Niveus remotes? They are pretty much the same remotes, i want to know who made them for those companies

[23:01:00]

Dagmar:

Have you cracked one open?

[23:01:12]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: And brings in more reports so we can find stuff that doesn;/t work

[23:01:16]

Dagmar:

There's likely to eb a clue on the PCB

[23:01:22]

hadees:

Dagmar, i haven't yet, thats the next step if i can't find out though

[23:01:23]

gbee_:

but I'm not aware that anyone has reported unsupported codecs with Internal, despite a lot of people using it exclusively

[23:01:33]

GreyFoxx:

I've taken mine apart, the board had no writing on mine

[23:01:53]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: Most problems seem to be seeking related

[23:02:10]

gbee_:

certainly none of the samples I've collected play under mplayer/vlc but not under the Internal player

[23:02:28]

b^j:

does anyone have a good resource for up to date hardware recommendations, i am looking to build a silent myth frontend but most of the guides i have found are pretty old

[23:02:33]

hadees:

has anyone thought of making a mythtv remote? a real one with the correct button labels

[23:02:49]

Dagmar:

justinh already looked into that one about 18–24 months ago

[23:02:52]

hadees:

i might hack one up for personal use but i wanted to see what you would have to do to actually make one

[23:03:05]

Dagmar:

They can be made cheaply in like, units of 10,000 I think was the verdict

[23:03:19]

hadees:

Dagmar, was it RF or IR?

[23:03:23]

Dagmar:

IR

[23:03:42]

hadees:

see i think rf is the way to go

[23:03:43]

Dagmar:

There's places in China that you can get to do it, but they don't do small batches.

[23:03:52]

hadees:

like the Niveus or the ATI

[23:04:17]

hadees:

the Niveus has both ir and rf

[23:04:44]

hadees:

and is a universal remote

[23:05:02]

GreyFoxx:

I loved my niveus

[23:05:10]

gbee_:

hadees: make in the commercial sense, or homemade? Justin, who has contacts in that world priced up having remotes made commercially but to be cost effective/viable I think the minimum order was tens of thousands

[23:05:11]

GreyFoxx:

but it basically wore out :/

[23:06:11]

gbee_:

I think the MCE remote comes pretty close to being perfect for MythTV, you can even replace the Windows logo with a MythTV one

[23:06:13]

hadees:

gbee_, well i was going to hack a niveus and a ati to make a homemade one but i wanted to see if was possible to make them in the commerical sense, not for a profit really, just so i could have a professionally made one

[23:06:51]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, the niveus was nice but i wish it had some more buttons and frankly i don't need the mouse

[23:06:59]

Dagmar:

I've got a shrinky-dinked MythTV oval over the One4All on my remote

[23:07:12]

high-rez:

how did you replace the windows logo ?

[23:07:15]

gbee_:

hadees: yeah, there might be a cheaper way, but the places that justin was looking had minimum order numbers that would be pretty insane for a few hundred MythTV users

[23:07:16]

hadees:

Dagmar, lol like the case badge

[23:07:21]

high-rez:

i'm using an mce remote too

[23:07:29]

iamlindoro:

Pop open the case, pull out the insert, replace with new one

[23:07:35]

Dagmar:

hadess: Yeah, my calculations were off on shrinking the first time (I can has simple math)

[23:07:39]

hadees:

gbee_, i bet you could sell 1,000

[23:07:50]

high-rez:

no kiddin? huh

[23:07:56]

gbee_:

high-rez: pop the remote open, remove the windows sticker and stick in a MythTV one (haven't actually done the last part since I don't have a colour printer)

[23:08:10]

Dagmar:

gbee: Kinko's

[23:08:15]

high-rez:

is there a premade myth stencil out there ?

[23:08:25]

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[23:08:26]

gbee_:

hadees: maybe, but minimum order numbers of 10,000–40,000 ;)

[23:08:27]

high-rez:

I've got me one of those inkjets.

[23:08:29]

Dagmar:

Not a stencil, but I've found some largish enough logos

[23:08:42]

b^j:

anyone have motherboard recommendations for a myth frontend?

[23:08:55]

hadees:

b^j, i like blue ones

[23:09:08]

hadees:

it really matches well with the mythtv logo

[23:09:14]

high-rez:

i prefer ones with the ability to run big cpu's so I can do h264

[23:09:14]

Dagmar:

b^J: I've got a whole machines' worth of rec's on my user page on the wiki

[23:09:49]

gbee_:

I'd favour colour laser for the finish and resolution, or even commercial printer knocking out a few sheets that could then be sold for beer money at Linux World etc

[23:10:28]

Dagmar:

high-rez: I *think* justinh made this one but I'm not certain http://blairhouse.homeip.net/~dagmar/MythTV_logo.png

[23:10:28]

hadees:

gbee_, i don't think they made shrinky dinks that work with laser printers

[23:10:32]

hadees:

just inkjet

[23:10:43]

Dagmar:

Laser printers and shrinky dinks would be a disaster

[23:11:03]

Dagmar:

...but if you wanted to really ruin a laser printer, it would do the job a treat

[23:11:16]

gbee_:

my mythtv case badge fell off the laptop a while ago :(, knocked it too often with my wrist

[23:11:31]

high-rez:

mmmm beer

[23:11:38]

Dagmar:

nice hard #6 plastic would shove itself right into the corona and probably wrap around the fuser and all sorts of other goodies

[23:11:56]

gbee_:

hadees: oh I was talking about printing direct to gloss paper or something, not shrinky things

[23:12:08]

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[23:12:18]

high-rez:

purdy

[23:12:28]

Dagmar:

...although if you wanted to use a laser printer to print the logo on vinyl or even paper, glue it to a bit of plastic cut the right shape and so on, and then _spray the surface_ with five or six layers of enamel/laquer you'd get a close enough effect

[23:12:31]

gbee_:

those get thicker as they shrink right? You'd probably need to shave it down first

[23:12:53]

Dagmar:

gbee: Yeah, they actually get about as thick as a normal case badge

[23:13:12]

iamlindoro:

oooof

[23:13:20]

iamlindoro:

He's hardcoded his home directory in as one of the locations, heh

[23:13:22]

high-rez:

my button isn't quite that big though

[23:13:22]

gbee_:

can't be too thick or it would permanently be pressing the button beneath it

[23:13:24]

iamlindoro:

fized

[23:14:02]

Dagmar:

gbee: Yeah for an insert, printing on regular paper (photo paper would probably be better, less bleeding) would be much better

[23:14:12]

Dagmar:

I'm thinking cardstock if not photo paper

[23:14:29]

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[23:14:43]

Dagmar:

...and still spray with UV-opaque enamel to make it shiny and not prone to rubbing off

[23:14:48]

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[23:15:05]

Dagmar:

Spray enamel you can get at WalMart or crafts stores, either one

[23:16:08]

Dagmar:

Put two squares of tape on a D20 or something, mount atop a cardboard box, take outside, give it a quick blast with the can, wait 15 minutes as per instructions on the can, rinse and repeat

[23:16:33]

Dagmar:

Granted getting a "pillow-top" effect would mean like 20–30 blasts

[23:17:01]

Dagmar:

<-- good with arts and crafts.

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gbee_:

heh, wifi on the netbook interfers with the wireless mouse

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MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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