Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, August 5th, 2008, 00:02 UTC

[00:02:48]

strike:

does this help?

[00:02:49]

strike:

[ 25.357273] dvb-usb: found a 'DViCO FusionHDTV DVB-T USB (TH7579)' in warm state.

[00:02:49]

strike:

[ 25.361190] dvb-usb: will pass the complete MPEG2 transport stream to the software demuxer.

[00:02:49]

strike:

[ 25.712250] dvb-usb: schedule remote query interval to 100 msecs.

[00:02:49]

strike:

[ 25.712259] dvb-usb: DViCO FusionHDTV DVB-T USB (TH7579) successfully initialized and connected.

[00:02:49]

strike:

[ 25.712285] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_cxusb

[00:03:26]

strike:

but i get that with or without the firmware

[00:04:38]

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[00:05:24]

strike:

is there a way to test if im using usb2

[00:05:33]

jblack:

I'm so annoyed. Myth is great, but what's broadcast sucks

[00:07:37]

strike:

can i make sure myth is using my 3d card?

[00:07:57]

strike:

gnome is and glxgears works

[00:11:03]

jblack:

You go into the menu around tv settings, and you tell it what method to use. There's about 5 of them.. framebuffer, x11, etc etc

[00:11:50]

strike:

i was in playback before

[00:11:54]

strike:

just a min

[00:12:49]

jblack:

No need for me to wait. I told you as much as I'm interested in saying

[00:13:20]

strike:

cheers then

[00:15:03]

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[00:18:52]

strike:

cant find that setting .. resorting to google again

[00:22:23]

strike:

couldnt see it in mythtv-setup either

[00:23:23]

clever:

strike: its in the frontend settings under playback

[00:24:19]

strike:

third screen?

[00:25:00]

strike:

im in playback profiles again

[00:26:35]

clever:

i think it lists several rules below there

[00:26:44]

clever:

and when you edit one you can change the video out methods

[00:28:22]

strike:

i have changed the profiles before and i added one that had everything xvmc kinda given up on that one tho

[00:29:06]

clever:

i managed to get xvmc working before

[00:29:18]

clever:

but it didnt save any noticable cpu and i lost the colors in my OSD

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[00:32:59]

strike:

yeah i lose colour as well but the performance is the same

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strike:

im pretty sure that indicates the driver is working

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wireddd is now known as wire

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

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strike:

some profiles are worse than others i might be onto something here cheers jblack

[01:00:02]

strike:

they are all bad tho

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[01:24:45]

Dagmar:

Well, they're entirely user-configurable

[01:25:21]

Dagmar:

...and monochrome OSD is a known issue that there are workarounds for on the wiki.

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mzb_d800:

fryfrog: awake? pm?

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[02:17:33]

hadees:

um, anyone know why my mythtv database is 12 gigs?

[02:17:49]

hadees:

doesn't that seem a bit much? how can i shrink it

[02:18:02]

strex-work:

hadees that does seem a bit much..

[02:18:25]

strex-work:

hadees what kind of setup do you run / is there any reason for it to be so large?

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[02:18:28]

GreyFoxx:

uhmmmm sounds more like mysql binlogs than the myth database porttion

[02:19:08]

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[02:19:43]

hadees:

ok, i'll ask in mysql how to turn them off, thanks

[02:20:23]

hadees:

GreyFoxx, well actually is there any reason to have them for mythtv?

[02:20:48]

GreyFoxx:

not imho

[02:21:02]

GreyFoxx:

just do daily mysqldump backups and you are pretty much fine

[02:21:32]

GreyFoxx:

I've yet in years here seen ANYONE use the binlogs (or know how) to restore the database :)

[02:21:48]

hadees:

lol, i think we actually use them at work

[02:22:04]

hadees:

i am a little surprised the default mysql install for gentoo has them on

[02:31:25]

hadees:

in portage there is an ebuild for 0.22_alpha17733, i know 0.22 is was a bit more unstable then normal but how is it now and how will it work with like mythvideo which only has 0.21_p17595 in portage

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[02:44:01]

Shadow__X:

are these things good

[02:44:02]

Shadow__X:

http://www.wyse.com/products/hardware/thincli . . . DV/index.asp

[02:44:44]

cesman:

good for what?

[02:45:16]

Shadow__X:

well what is that good for

[02:45:29]

Shadow__X:

i know that isnt necessarily a mythtv question

[02:45:54]

Shadow__X:

would that be ok for a linux desktop and also could that possible be enough to run a sd frontend

[02:47:17]

strex:

Shadow__X: linux desktop?

[02:47:47]

Shadow__X:

i just dont see info about cpu speed or anything

[02:47:58]

Shadow__X:

sorry for such scatter brained questions

[02:48:21]

cesman:

w/o hardware details, how are we suppose to tell you what it is good for?

[02:48:40]

strex:

what you linked above is good for a thin client.. :p..

[02:48:55]

cesman:

the way thin clients general work, the backend hardware does all the heavy lifting and the video is just displayed on the client

[02:49:14]

Shadow__X:

hmm can mythtv run in a thin client environment

[02:50:06]

cesman:

with a b@da$$ backend, I don't see why not

[02:50:18]

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[02:50:21]

Shadow__X:

badass as in like a quad core>?

[02:50:55]

cesman:

I'd think a quad core is way overkill for SD

[02:51:09]

Shadow__X:

hmm so then amd x2 3800

[02:51:10]

Shadow__X:

?

[02:51:17]

|chiz| (|chiz|!n=steve@hlfxns0148w-142068224236.pppoe-dynamic.ns.aliant.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[02:51:21]

|chiz|:

I'm getting a message saying "cannot log into database?" when running the mythtv-setup, can anyone help?

[02:51:31]

cesman:

Shadow__X: should work

[02:51:46]

strex:

|chiz|: sounds like permissions or a bad ip to me..

[02:51:57]

Shadow__X:

thanks cesman sorry for such a empty question

[02:52:05]

strex:

|chiz|: does the 'user' had access rights?

[02:52:13]

cesman:

you're welcome. I hope the answer was filling

[02:52:31]

strex:

|chiz|: can you login via command line with the same creds?

[02:52:33]

wagnerrp:

can you log into the database manually?

[02:52:40]

|chiz|:

strex: not sure, how can I check?

[02:52:50]

wagnerrp:

'mysql -umythtv -pmythtv -h<sql server ip>

[02:52:56]

strex:

|chiz|: do you have console access to a linux box.

[02:52:57]

Shadow__X:

yeah i just should of thought before i asked

[02:53:07]

|chiz|:

strex: yes

[02:53:23]

strex:

|chiz|: follow wagnerrp's command..

[02:53:30]

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[02:53:38]

my2keh:

does pulse audio work with Myth and spdif?

[02:53:49]

|chiz|:

I can log in as root no problem

[02:53:56]

cesman:

still at it huh my2keh....

[02:54:04]

wagnerrp:

you dont want to log in as root, you want to log in as mythtv

[02:54:05]

strex:

|chiz|: you need to be able to login via the mythtv user

[02:54:14]

my2keh:

cesman>> I'll stop when I'm done :)

[02:54:17]

my2keh:

I've got video now

[02:54:20]

wagnerrp:

thats the mysql mythtv user, not the local mythtv user

[02:54:30]

cesman:

my2keh: if this is a standalone system, why are you dicking w/ pulse audio?

[02:54:40]

cesman:

my2keh: I mean, what is pulse audio going to give you?

[02:54:44]

my2keh:

cesman>> because I can't get ALSA to work

[02:54:55]

my2keh:

I have no iec958 switch in my alsamixer

[02:54:56]

strex:

my2keh: what audio card??

[02:55:12]

cesman:

did I not tell you this morning that if you don't get alsa working pulseaudio isn't going to work?

[02:55:24]

my2keh:

HDA NVidia, VT1708B

[02:55:27]

my2keh:

Oh right

[02:55:33]

strex:

lol

[02:55:37]

my2keh:

I'm going in circles...it's been a long hot day

[02:55:40]

my2keh:

28 today lol

[02:55:45]

** cesman goes back to watching American Dad... **

[02:55:51]

cesman:

hmmm wine...

[02:55:54]

cesman:

here I come!

[02:56:04]

my2keh:

haha

[02:56:21]

my2keh:

the guys in #fedora suggested Pulse audio btw

[02:56:24]

my2keh:

so yeah lol

[02:56:35]

wagnerrp:

|chiz|: did that command work?

[02:56:39]

cesman:

WTF?!

[02:56:54]

my2keh:

exactly

[02:56:57]

cesman:

with advise like that, I'd glad I don't use Fedora

[02:57:07]

my2keh:

ugh circular reference

[02:57:13]

my2keh:

I wish I had a choice

[02:57:19]

my2keh:

I'll be comin' back to KM soon

[02:57:32]

cesman:

my2keh: "PulseAudio is a sound server for POSIX and Win32 systems. A sound server is basically a proxy for your sound applications."

[02:57:37]

wagnerrp:

km?

[02:57:43]

cesman:

KnoppMyth

[02:57:55]

cesman:

his hardware is too new for my kernel

[02:58:13]

my2keh:

stupid new hardware

[02:58:14]

my2keh:

damn it

[02:58:24]

my2keh:

I rushed my purchase, I never ever do that

[02:58:52]

cesman:

my2keh: did you follow me advise about compiling the latest ALSA?

[02:58:58]

my2keh:

yup

[02:59:08]

my2keh:

i'm on 1.0.17 or osmething like that

[02:59:21]

strex:

my2keh: and this is a builtin audio card, right?

[02:59:22]

cesman:

any advise from #alsa?

[02:59:22]

wagnerrp:

apparently fedora 8 and better default to pulseaudio

[02:59:27]

my2keh:

regular audio works fine

[02:59:30]

my2keh:

strex>> yes

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[02:59:46]

cesman:

please define "regular audio works fine"

[02:59:50]

my2keh:

cesman>> We dicked around with some stuff, but in the end the directed me to a wiki which did not work

[02:59:53]

strex:

yea..

[03:00:11]

my2keh:

cesman>> I can use aplay to play a wave file when using the uhh 'normal' audio jack (ie not spdif)

[03:00:20]

cesman:

also define what problem you are having if, "regular audio works fine"

[03:00:20]

wagnerrp:

|chiz|: you still around?

[03:00:27]

my2keh:

http://alsa.opensrc.org/Hda

[03:00:28]

|chiz|:

yeah sorry

[03:00:30]

my2keh:

I want spdif :)

[03:00:38]

|chiz|:

just trying to get mythtv user to work on my database

[03:00:39]

strex:

my2keh: what are you trying to play?

[03:00:44]

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[03:00:46]

strex:

over spdif

[03:01:00]

my2keh:

uhhh my audio? from shows?

[03:01:04]

strex:

my2keh: do you have a HW baised decoder?

[03:01:18]

cesman:

my2keh: and you followed http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Configur . . . C3_and_SPDIF

[03:01:19]

strex:

my2keh: what quality are these shows?

[03:01:25]

my2keh:

strex>> not sure?

[03:01:35]

** cesman doesn't had fancy digital audio ;) **

[03:01:38]

wagnerrp:

|chix|: in mysql as root, "grant all on mythconverg.* to 'mythtv'@'<your frontend's IP>' identified by 'mythtv'"

[03:01:51]

strex:

my2keh: if you don't even know if the audio is in AC3 format, why are you even messing with spdif?

[03:01:58]

my2keh:

strex>> It's really not for all shows...but on my old KM box, I had spdif for everything and if it's a 'regular audio' quality, it plays that too

[03:02:11]

cesman:

:)

[03:02:30]

my2keh:

otherwise I'd have to run another cable

[03:02:40]

my2keh:

but heck, if you get HDTV, why would you not wnat Dolby sound?

[03:02:42]

strex:

lol... I've run like 4 cables..

[03:02:53]

my2keh:

but I'm close to running that extra cable

[03:03:24]

my2keh:

cesman>> I've followed that link; however I can't UNMUTE my spdif, because it doesn't exist in alsamixer heh

[03:03:26]

wagnerrp:

my2keh: because running 6-channel audio gives better quality than AC3, with a sufficiently good source

[03:03:27]

strex:

my2keh: so coming off this sound card, what are you running the audio to?

[03:03:33]

wagnerrp:

err... 6-channel analog

[03:04:04]

my2keh:

my Yamaha AV receiver

[03:04:21]

my2keh:

this mobo has built in spdif; however, I

[03:04:34]

my2keh:

I'm going to try my spdif bracket tomorrow I think, prolly no diff but still

[03:05:06]

strex:

my2keh: on my reciever it only takes spdif on a particualr imput, not all imputs, yours might be similar, do you know if yours works like that?

[03:05:34]

my2keh:

yes, mine takes it on DTV/CABLE

[03:05:42]

my2keh:

which is what my source is set too

[03:05:48]

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[03:06:01]

my2keh:

I already made that mistake the first time I was setting up KM lol

[03:06:01]

strex:

my2keh: also, when you go into alsamixer what sources / sliders do you have?

[03:06:11]

strex:

my2keh: same here, lol

[03:06:15]

my2keh:

I have a bunch, but not iec958

[03:06:20]

my2keh:

which I need to unmute

[03:06:38]

|chiz|:

I can log into mysql as mythtv but still getting database issues

[03:06:48]

my2keh:

but it doesn't exist so I can't unmute

[03:07:12]

strex:

my2keh: you said you came from KM, what are you trying to get working now?

[03:07:29]

my2keh:

i had to build from scratch using fedora 9

[03:07:49]

my2keh:

so I got myth installed and video wroking, just trying to get sound

[03:08:00]

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[03:08:09]

strex:

my2keh: so did you ask KM what ALSA version they were using? and / or did you save your configs from when it was working?

[03:08:40]

my2keh:

I can't remember what they were using

[03:08:47]

my2keh:

but my hardware is different now

[03:08:53]

my2keh:

hence the reason I had to switch to fedora

[03:09:03]

cesman:

strex: his hardware is different now

[03:09:16]

strex:

my2keh: so what kind of cable do you have running from your audio card to your amp now?

[03:09:20]

my2keh:

cesman knows a little bit about KM heh

[03:09:27]

my2keh:

optical

[03:09:58]

strex:

my2keh: and you said you get 'regular' audio.. is that through your amp or another source / cable?

[03:10:06]

my2keh:

amp

[03:10:09]

my2keh:

by regular audio

[03:10:14]

my2keh:

I meant not a spdif cable

[03:10:21]

strex:

my2keh: by regular as in RCA?

[03:10:31]

my2keh:

yeah MIC -> RCA

[03:10:44]

my2keh:

whatever that connector is

[03:11:12]

wagnerrp:

1/8"

[03:11:19]

my2keh:

yeah 1/8" -> RCA

[03:11:25]

my2keh:

the audio works fine using that

[03:11:27]

** strex ssh's into mythbox **

[03:11:35]

my2keh:

like aplay works

[03:11:47]

my2keh:

but when I aplay a wav and connected via spdif, not so much

[03:12:35]

strex:

my2keh: in alsamixer do you have 'anything' listed for IEC95x??

[03:12:53]

my2keh:

no

[03:13:11]

cesman:

my2keh: yeah...just a little ;)

[03:13:17]

my2keh:

:)

[03:13:49]

my2keh:

blazing trails is no fun when you don't knwo what you are doing lol

[03:14:33]

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[03:15:15]

cesman:

trust me, even if you know what you are doing sometimes it isn't fun :/

[03:15:32]

mike3:

I'm having some troubles with my PVR 150. I am trying to record from composite and have selected it from the console with ivtvctl -i 2 and I can hear and see the video. However, the video is all scrambled. Anyone face this issue?

[03:15:55]

my2keh:

yeah, I wouldn't doubt it...at least it keeps me busy

[03:16:15]

my2keh:

I might have to bite the bullet and use non-spdif to be ready for the olympics!

[03:16:19]

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[03:17:49]

cesman:

well, think I'll do some R6 work to relax...

[03:19:16]

my2keh:

I'm all for that!

[03:19:25]

my2keh:

but I'm bias

[03:19:29]

my2keh:

and so is my wife

[03:19:46]

cesman:

oh?

[03:19:51]

cesman:

does she like KM as well?

[03:20:07]

my2keh:

she loves it

[03:20:11]

my2keh:

hates me

[03:20:14]

my2keh:

for redoing the box

[03:20:19]

cesman:

does she have a sister?! ;)

[03:20:36]

my2keh:

She actually shows it off to other mom-friends when they come over

[03:20:38]

my2keh:

LOL

[03:21:05]

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[03:21:52]

my2keh:

but please, continue your good work on R6

[03:22:02]

my2keh:

maybe it'll come out before my marriage ends lol

[03:22:21]

Shadow__X:

r6?

[03:22:26]

|chiz|:

ok so I can login to mythconverg as mythtv from the command line but mythtv-setup is still not working, its saying it cannot login to database

[03:23:10]

cesman:

|chiz|: if you have a mysql.txt file it probably has the incorrect password

[03:23:28]

cesman:

|chiz|: check ~/.mythtv or /etc/mythtv

[03:23:36]

my2keh:

have a good night! see ya

[03:25:10]

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[03:25:22]

|chiz|:

cesman: those both look good

[03:25:53]

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[03:28:40]

|chiz|:

I had a space infront of localhost

[03:28:42]

|chiz|:

:S

[03:28:50]

cesman:

:)

[03:29:14]

cesman:

Shadow__X: I name my release KnoppMyth Release X

[03:29:24]

cesman:

Shadow__X: the first was KnoppMyth Release 1

[03:29:26]

cesman:

R1

[03:29:35]

cesman:

the current is R 5.5

[03:29:36]

Shadow__X:

oh ok

[03:29:44]

cesman:

the next major is Release 6

[03:29:49]

cesman:

R6

[03:30:53]

Shadow__X:

ah ok

[03:31:01]

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[03:52:26]

Shadow__X:

hmm thats weird

[03:52:38]

Shadow__X:

firewire over stb wasnt working reboot fixed it

[03:53:31]

Shadow__X:

see ya later guys

[04:02:02]

** sutula is missing something obvious...is there a way within mythweb or the frontend to run a user job on an existing recording? **

[04:07:23]

cesman:

yes

[04:07:45]

sutula:

cesman: Pointer?

[04:08:30]

cesman:

frontend > Recordings > Info (press info on the recording in question) > Job options

[04:09:08]

cesman:

whatever jobs you've defined should show up

[04:09:18]

** cesman goes back to his wine... **

[04:11:25]

** sutula sees that now, selects one, and waits to see if the backend automagically starts doing the job **

[04:13:11]

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[04:14:43]

cesman:

:)

[04:18:42]

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[04:24:01]

sutula:

cesman: Thanks much...the option is there on mythweb also...I missed it earlier

[04:26:17]

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[04:33:26]

cesman:

you're welcome

[04:34:07]

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[04:35:17]

cworth:

Hmm... I seem to be having the same problem reported here:

[04:35:19]

cworth:

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/341472

[04:35:34]

cworth:

(Though Thomas didn't seem to get any reply to his posting...)

[04:35:57]

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[04:36:08]

cworth:

And bugs.debian.org doesn't seem to be responding at the moment, so I haven't been able to check there yet.

[04:36:21]

cesman:

same tuner?

[04:37:41]

cworth:

cesman: I'm not sure.

[04:37:55]

cesman:

lol!

[04:38:06]

cworth:

I think it was "WinTV Go" on the box.

[04:38:26]

cworth:

lspci says "Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video Capture (rev 11)"

[04:39:02]

cesman:

ok, not the same card but the same chipset

[04:39:03]

cworth:

(Maybe it was "WinTV Go Plus". It was a long time ago so I don't remember details.)

[04:39:09]

** cesman use to have a 401... **

[04:39:20]

cesman:

same kernel?

[04:39:38]

cworth:

But like that report, tvtime works fine. And things were working up to a recent Debian upgrade.

[04:39:52]

cworth:

Oh, I'm not on amd64 like Thomas is.

[04:40:05]

cworth:

But Debian sid kernel, yes.

[04:40:24]

cworth:

I'm inclined to just compile a new kernel to see if that helps.

[04:40:32]

cesman:

why?

[04:40:35]

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[04:40:45]

cesman:

why not just get v4l/dvb from mercurial?

[04:41:20]

cesman:

http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb

[04:41:24]

cworth:

cesman: Only because compiling kernels is something I'm familiar with. ;-)

[04:41:32]

cworth:

cesman: Thanks. I'll try that instead.

[04:41:40]

cesman:

1)compiling v4l/dvb is faster

[04:41:43]

cesman:

2)compiling v4l/dvb is faster

[04:41:48]

cesman:

3)compiling v4l/dvb is faster

[04:41:59]

cesman:

4)you'll get the latest drivers...

[04:42:12]

cesman:

get the bz2 or gz

[04:42:30]

cesman:

untar, ./configure --wtih-drivers=all

[04:42:31]

cesman:

make

[04:42:33]

cesman:

make install

[04:42:44]

cesman:

if I remember correctly...

[04:43:02]

cesman:

sorry enjoying some wine...

[04:45:20]

cesman:

5)reboot to enjoy new drivers

[04:45:25]

wagnerrp:

damnit, i just told my package manager to install php5-gd (php graphics library), so it decided to go off and install the entirety of the Xorg backend libraries

[04:45:25]

cesman:

6)compiling v4l/dvb is faster

[04:46:09]

wagnerrp:

oh well, its not like im starving for drive space

[04:49:44]

cworth:

cesman: Hmm... Debian seems to be insisting on me upgrading to 2.6.26 before it will let me install a kernel headers package so I can build v4l-dvb. We'll see if that helps on its own...

[04:51:37]

cesman:

good luck

[04:52:30]

cworth:

cesman: Thanks!

[04:54:19]

cesman:

you're welcome

[04:54:30]

** cworth grumbles at ext3fs mount-count-enforced checks and slow(!) check times **

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[05:42:46]

cesman:

cworth: tune2fs -c 0 /dev/XdYZ

[05:43:02]

cworth:

cesman: Yeah, got that in place now.

[05:43:41]

cworth:

cesman: It's just that I never remember to run tune2fs until I hit an fsck at a really annoying time, (and even then I sometimes forget once it's finally done).

[05:44:19]

cworth:

cesman: So no luck with an hg clone of v4l-dvb, (which maybe isn't that surprising since tvtime was working fine after all).

[05:44:31]

cworth:

So maybe I'll need to come up with a new build of mythtv...

[05:44:55]

cworth:

First, I'm stracing mythtv and tvtime to see if they are tickling the device very differently.

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[05:48:05]

Dagmar:

So when do you usually remember -i 0?

[05:48:07]

Dagmar:

;)

[05:51:05]

wagnerrp:

mmm... firefly for $18 at amazon

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[06:29:16]

cworth:

Ugh. Even downgrading to mythtv 0.20.2 packages I had sitting in /var/cache/apt/archives from last November didn't help.

[06:30:08]

** cworth might need to take this as an excuse to buy a new video capture device... **

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[07:44:25]

justinh:

hmm think it's time I looked at making a translation for mythmovies. it's THEATRE ;)

[07:45:19]

wagnerrp:

huh?

[07:45:40]

justinh:

as opposed to 'Theater'

[07:45:51]

wagnerrp:

oh

[07:46:01]

wagnerrp:

english versus... english

[07:46:20]

justinh:

English vs American, yeah

[07:46:22]

directhex:

english versus yank

[07:46:47]

justinh:

maybe I'll do that when I figure out why the hacked script I use doesn't work on my frontend

[07:47:11]

wagnerrp:

well if you want to go that route, y'all should be typing in iambic pentameter... :P

[07:47:41]

justinh:

er.. nope

[07:48:13]

justinh:

it's a really little thing but Americanized (sic) spellings piss me off

[07:48:32]

wagnerrp:

you just like adding extra 'u's to everthing

[07:48:40]

justinh:

I don't even care that half the time the American spellings are actually the old English way

[07:49:25]

justinh:

and it obviously pissed somebody else off similarly otherwise there'd never have been a GB translation in the first place ;)

[07:49:53]

wagnerrp:

someone actually bothered to do that?

[07:49:53]

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[07:50:02]

wagnerrp:

thats, well... sad

[07:50:02]

directhex:

i use "color" a lot, having learn BASIC using microsoft qbasic, not a bbc micro

[07:50:33]

justinh:

sad my arese

[07:50:35]

justinh:

*arse

[07:50:58]

justinh:

I might even have stopped using mythtv is they hadn't put the spelling right

[07:51:10]

justinh:

how's that for pedantry? ;)

[07:51:54]

wagnerrp:

well you know, everyone has their favourite hates

[07:52:56]

justinh:

not that it'd ever have mattered in the big scheme of things...

[07:53:17]

wagnerrp:

i really wish my mouse had the option of swappable batteries

[07:53:43]

justinh:

well, maybe we'd have lost a huffy, opinionated theme designer. but then, maybe that's already happened

[07:54:19]

jblack:

justinh: You're outnumbered a few thousand nukes to 0.

[07:54:38]

wagnerrp:

hey now, they do have billy clubs

[07:54:43]

justinh:

hahaha http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/344543

[07:54:47]

jblack:

And funny hats.

[07:55:17]

justinh:

jblack: why'd you wanna go & blow your surrogate brains out hmm?

[07:55:25]

wagnerrp:

i really need to get clipboards working in vnc

[07:55:31]

wagnerrp:

this typing out links really sucks

[07:55:44]

justinh:

wagnerrp: open the log, clicky linky

[07:56:26]

wagnerrp:

well the logs are shared over samba

[07:56:57]

justinh:

I meant the beirdo.mythtv.ca/ircLog/channel/1 log

[07:56:57]

wagnerrp:

although the time to either navigate to it in the file system, or open up putty and open it in a terminal, would be just as much as just typing it out

[07:57:04]

wagnerrp:

oh

[07:58:30]

wagnerrp:

maybe, mythtv.beirdo.ca?

[07:59:02]

jblack:

justinh: We would, but we're focused on Britney spears trying to sound like a brit.

[07:59:43]

wagnerrp:

meh, they can have her

[08:00:01]

justinh:

wagnerrp: oh yeah, that way around. oops

[08:00:14]

jblack:

I'm still pissed at nasa.

[08:00:26]

justinh:

you can effing well have madonna back too

[08:00:32]

jblack:

fuck no.

[08:00:49]

wagnerrp:

i cant believe its taking them so fucking long to get the orion working

[08:01:22]

wagnerrp:

they just strapped an SSME to the bottom of the fuel tank, and they have a rocket

[08:01:25]

wagnerrp:

its not that hard

[08:01:33]

wagnerrp:

<-- really is a rocket scientist

[08:01:33]

justinh:

ORLY

[08:02:02]

justinh:

mythtv must've been dead easy to make work then

[08:02:22]

justinh:

and even lirc!

[08:02:36]

wagnerrp:

mythtv is written from scratch, in spare time

[08:02:51]

wagnerrp:

these people get paid to do this, and they just cannibalize 30yr old technology

[08:03:00]

jblack:

I'm still waiting for a myth plugin to make tv not stink

[08:03:42]

jblack:

Though dynamic rate playback comes close. I can be bored to tears in 1/2 the time

[08:03:43]

justinh:

tv stinks no matter what

[08:04:23]

justinh:

no linux PVR will ever make genuinely intruiging, entertaining TV possible

[08:04:54]

justinh:

no matter how you dress it up on a TV, American Idol will always be shit

[08:05:20]

justinh:

s/American Idol/BSG/Lost/24/West Wing/Whatever

[08:05:37]

jblack:

Hey. BSG and Lost are pretty good.

[08:05:59]

justinh:

if you say so

[08:06:02]

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[08:06:16]

jblack:

Thanks for agreeing

[08:07:29]

justinh:

awww the Syncrotron near where I work is being closed down. Damn, no more being able to excuse myself for being late due to singularities

[08:07:41]

wagnerrp:

out of those, ive only seen a couple episodes of West Wing

[08:07:55]

jblack:

Speaking of which, is the LHC destroying earth yet?

[08:08:15]

directhex:

we have a small singularity in an emoty wing of the building, yes

[08:08:22]

justinh:

dunno. maybe we're already gone but life is so crap we've just not noticed

[08:08:40]

jblack:

Time is supposed to slow to an eternity as one falls in....

[08:08:46]

justinh:

maybe we aren't even here in the first place!

[08:09:07]

wagnerrp:

time only slows from the view of an external observer

[08:09:17]

jblack:

Just imagine. Your last eternal thought could be Britney Spears french kissing Elton John

[08:09:32]

justinh:

could be worse. Paris Hilton

[08:09:39]

jblack:

With whom?

[08:09:45]

justinh:

anybody

[08:10:04]

justinh:

she has a forehead you just couldn't tire of slapping. there's enough of it, I mean

[08:10:05]

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[08:10:14]

wagnerrp:

in other news, france surrenders to scientists at the LHC

[08:10:24]

jblack:

heh.

[08:12:07]

jblack:

In seven days, I'll be 36.

[08:14:46]

wagnerrp:

you know, that line in the ticket is just overall a bad line

[08:14:59]

wagnerrp:

too informal for an error message

[08:15:05]

justinh:

wife wasn't happy last night. I pointed out that maybe the novelty of the wii has worn off already. got it on saturday & she's only played on it once

[08:15:17]

jblack:

ouch.

[08:15:43]

wagnerrp:

yeah, the novelty wore off pretty quickly for my roommate and i

[08:15:55]

wagnerrp:

about the only thing that got played was wii tennis when there was company over

[08:16:33]

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[08:16:35]

justinh:

expensive fad though huh? ;)

[08:16:47]

wagnerrp:

well he paid for it, so i wasnt complaining

[08:17:32]

directhex:

i've been playing on my wii lately!

[08:17:36]

directhex:

first time in months :o

[08:17:50]

directhex:

it's a 101% accurate surgeon sim. with time-stopping ability!

[08:18:24]

jblack:

Oh, trauma center?

[08:18:48]

jblack:

is it fun?

[08:18:59]

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[08:19:32]

wagnerrp:

i dont understand why they didnt put a pair of gyro clusters in the wiimote

[08:19:50]

directhex:

idiocy. it's being added now via "wiimotion+"

[08:19:58]

wagnerrp:

i mean theyre just printed circuits, so they're dirt cheap

[08:20:04]

directhex:

jblack, yeah, it's not bad. doesn't help that i'm squamish though

[08:20:35]

wagnerrp:

you stick one on either end, and now you have full inertial sensing, while still being able to connect the nunchuck

[08:21:33]

justinh:

directhex: not idiocy, it's called 'selling more must-have kit later'

[08:21:40]

directhex:

wagnerrp, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ibK5zqm_LM ?

[08:21:56]

justinh:

that's probably why consoles only ever ship with one fscking controller

[08:23:01]

justinh:

oh FFS this company is still rattling on about self-certs on HDMI. they just don't fecking get it

[08:23:26]

directhex:

justinh, in some cases only shipping with one is a positive thing

[08:23:39]

wagnerrp:

the only thing the sensor bar should be used for is an inertial reference

[08:24:02]

directhex:

justinh, but typically official bundles ship with more – my xbox 360 came with two pads, the second one as part of an official "bundle this with things for greater sales plz" box

[08:24:06]

justinh:

we could pay the HDMI co. $4000 to certify a unit, but no we'll spend $10,000 on a new scope & spend fack knows how much engineering time on it

[08:24:22]

directhex:

wagnerrp, what do you think it's used for now?

[08:24:36]

justinh:

'sensor bar' my arse. it senses nothing :)

[08:24:46]

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[08:24:47]

justinh:

'bar for sensors' would be more accurate

[08:24:55]

directhex:

it senses nothing indeed. it's a pair of IR LEDs! \o/

[08:24:58]

wagnerrp:

right, its just a point in space for the remote to key off of

[08:25:23]

directhex:

under the right conditions, tea lights can be used

[08:25:41]

wagnerrp:

directhex: right now, the wiimote only senses linear motion

[08:25:57]

wagnerrp:

angles can only be inferred from the direction of gravity, so its wholly inaccurate

[08:26:10]

justinh:

as for using the wiimote for mythtv.. ah ahhhhh.. the range is pathetic

[08:26:20]

wagnerrp:

once you lose sight of the 'sensor bar', it has no idea where its aiming

[08:26:24]

directhex:

wagnerrp, have you watched the wiimotionplus videos, OOI?

[08:26:41]

wagnerrp:

im watching it now, i dont know why they didnt do that to begin with

[08:26:50]

directhex:

nor does anyone else

[08:26:52]

justinh:

wagnerrp: so they can sell more units

[08:27:00]

directhex:

oh, did we mention it kills battery life

[08:27:01]

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[08:27:21]

directhex:

and breaks compatibility with the partly-official japan-only recharging dock?

[08:27:49]

justinh:

yay they get to sell more recharging docks too!

[08:27:58]

wagnerrp:

no longer fits?

[08:28:03]

justinh:

cynical, moi? ;)

[08:29:10]

wagnerrp:

i wonder if the PS3 controller actually has two sensors, or if it is really only '5-axis'

[08:29:21]

** justinh goes back to trying to debug the naughty movies script & finding out why it no worky on the frontend **

[08:29:47]

directhex:

wagnerrp, no longer fits. since they started pushing those silicone jackets with everything, they push out a new "extended" jacket for wiimotion+ so you can leave it fitted permanently

[08:29:56]

directhex:

wagnerrp, and those things are an arse to remove

[08:30:16]

sid3windr:

lol

[08:30:42]

wagnerrp:

really going for the phallic reference there arent they

[08:30:52]

wagnerrp:

before it was just long and thin

[08:30:54]

directhex:

wagnerrp, funny thing is, the shoulder buttons are pressure-sensitive, so count as axises ;)

[08:31:01]

wagnerrp:

now its even longer, and wrapped in a condom

[08:31:31]

wagnerrp:

well shit, the four thumb buttons are pressure sensitive too

[08:31:34]

directhex:

there's your six axis! experience says playing a ps3 game with "motion control" is no more or less accurate using a ps3 pad versus using a ham sandwich

[08:31:46]

justinh:

wtf? same script, different machines, different output. W T F

[08:31:59]

directhex:

justinh, computers RULE!

[08:32:08]

sid3windr:

they SO do

[08:32:22]

justinh:

ran a diff. no differences

[08:32:30]

wagnerrp:

directhex: then wouldnt it be 7-axis, or 11-axis?

[08:32:52]

wagnerrp:

maybe the d-pad is pressure sensitive too, and dont forget the four on the analogs

[08:33:45]

directhex:

i give up

[08:33:56]

directhex:

let's just call it the eleventeen axis of super next-gen joy

[08:34:02]

directhex:

and pretend nobody likes rumble

[08:37:13]

wagnerrp:

apparently the analogs are now 10-bit, but they still have a horrid dead zone

[08:38:15]

wagnerrp:

they seem to claim direct measurement of angular rates, but i dont know how you would achieve that without something spinning

[08:40:27]

directhex:

i have never liked, and still don't, sony pads

[08:41:25]

wagnerrp:

ive really grown to like the xbox controller

[08:41:44]

wagnerrp:

both the new one and the old one

[08:42:46]

directhex:

MS have a good pedigree. i liked the old game[port sidewinder pads

[08:43:16]

wagnerrp:

never had a pad, but i have an old gameport sidewinder joystick

[08:43:33]

wagnerrp:

but it has fallen out of favor for my saitek

[08:44:38]

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[08:46:36]

justinh:

perl dependencies suck

[08:46:50]

gbee:

so do straws

[08:47:05]

justinh:

especially when distros don't call packages logical names

[08:48:11]

wagnerrp:

i had a problem getting mythweb installed because of that

[08:48:25]

wagnerrp:

although there it was a fault of my not reading what it wanted properly

[08:49:29]

justinh:

thing is, the frontend isnt complaining of anything being missing

[08:50:13]

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[09:01:16]

justinh:

heh. was missing libuser-identity-perl

[09:02:08]

gbee:

who am I?

[09:02:46]

justinh:

well, least mythmovies will work on my frontend now

[09:03:33]

gbee:

well if you want to know what time that film is showing somewhere in North America it will ;)

[09:03:49]

justinh:

ahem. er yes. of course

[09:05:51]

gbee:

unless one of those unofficial UK grabbers is working :)

[09:07:56]

justinh:

funny. couldn't make the unofficial googlemovies.pl work on my older ubuntu system but it works fine on the newer one

[09:08:27]

justinh:

I should really probably upgrade them all to the same hymnsheet

[09:09:06]

justinh:

but then, the backend is still on diaper & works fine, so why change

[09:11:13]

justinh:

seems that different versions of the perl stuff produce different results. hmmpph

[09:11:22]

justinh:

messy!

[09:13:36]

justinh:

speaking of which, seems George Lucas is getting ready to curl another one out

[09:17:57]

gbee:

oh?

[09:18:57]

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[09:19:10]

justinh:

teh cloan warz!

[09:20:15]

gbee:

heh

[09:22:01]

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[09:23:35]

gbee:

he lost me when he create the prequels, it made me thankful he didn't have the tech or budget when producing the first films

[09:24:05]

justinh:

btw I now have an answer for whoever was asking about how often mythmovies grabs its data. it uses a transparent http cache so if the page it scrapes hasn't changed it doesn't download anything :)

[09:25:25]

justinh:

he lost me when he ruined the original 3 episodes. I keep reading what I think are rumours about the original UNTAINTED versions coming out on disc, then forgetting to go look for them in shops

[09:25:25]

gbee:

oh, Mattias's http-cache-transparent? :)

[09:26:10]

directhex:

han shot first!

[09:26:11]

gbee:

didn't think the remastered versions were too bad aside from the odd scene added in

[09:29:15]

jblack:

So, should art be static once publicized?

[09:30:02]

directhex:

someone needs to watch more south park

[09:31:25]

directhex:

http://allsp.com/l.php?id=e88

[09:31:26]

justinh:

south park is the only thing I miss about pay tv

[09:31:45]

jblack:

I have 127 south parks from broadcast tv

[09:31:49]

laga:

justinh: you can watch the episodes on teh intarwebs

[09:32:31]

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[09:32:47]

justinh:

web tv sucks

[09:32:53]

directhex:

jblack, so watch series 6 episode 9 – "free hat"

[09:33:36]

directhex:

justinh, all yanks present may watch in higher res via southparkstudios.com official site. the rest of us need to use hax to link to south park episodes relevant to the discussion

[09:33:46]

jblack:

Got it

[09:34:52]

jblack:

actually, let me put this on the big monitor.

[09:36:20]

jblack:

Oh, I've seen this one.

[09:36:43]

directhex:

yet it remains relevant to the discussion

[09:37:01]

jblack:

Oh, I don't disagree that some changes are bad.

[09:37:05]

directhex:

well, the part about movie directors changing their movies. not the bit about freeing baby killers

[09:37:25]

jblack:

I don't disagree that many changes are bad.

[09:38:02]

gbee:

but some directors cuts are also an improvement – or so those selling you another DVD would like you to believe

[09:39:04]

jblack:

I guess my point is that I'm ot convinced that there's such a thing as "done", never to be modified again.

[09:39:06]

gbee:

actually having recently seen the directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven it's undeniably an improvement on the original

[09:39:26]

jblack:

movies would really suck if all they did was dump raw footage to the screen, so some editing _must_ be done.

[09:39:54]

justinh:

yeah but a lot of people saw the originals as pretty much perfect, warts & all

[09:40:13]

jblack:

You're going to argue that star wars, in _any_ iteration, was flawless?

[09:41:26]

justinh:

I said warts & all

[09:41:34]

justinh:

fine as they were, thanks

[09:41:44]

directhex:

nothing makes a film perfect like having the hero call the actress by name, rather than her character's name

[09:41:46]

jblack:

"Perfect with their flaws" sounds like an oxymoron to me

[09:41:46]

directhex:

REAL pro

[09:41:53]

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[09:42:04]

gbee:

the original Star Wars films were classics, too much time had passed for him to start changing them – it's like remodelling a historic building, you don't do it, after a certain amount of time you pass a point where it should be preserved in the original form

[09:42:31]

jblack:

At one extreme, no editing at all. I don't think anyone could argue that's good.

[09:42:35]

justinh:

if the original prints had been in such good condition that the newly stitched on bits weren't so freakin obvious maybe..

[09:42:56]

jblack:

At the other extreme, complete remakes. Box office receipts show that there's value there too.

[09:42:57]

gbee:

no-one is saying that films should not be edited before they are released to the public, that's just silly

[09:43:08]

jblack:

when one considers the recent batman.

[09:43:10]

justinh:

but all this going back, adding stuff, going back again & adding more. it got daft

[09:45:01]

jblack:

So, at either end it's ok, but for a band in the center, that's bad?

[09:45:49]

jblack:

personally, I think the problem is actually that people hate change.

[09:46:53]

jblack:

I think the point of art is to change our perception of the world.

[09:47:54]

jblack:

'So change the way I think.... BUT JUST ONCE, so i don't have to do it again'

[09:48:28]

gbee:

I get the urge to vomit when people talk about art and changing perceptions

[09:48:37]

justinh:

heh

[09:49:22]

justinh:

was it not some arrogant toffee nosed asshat who once said.. "<complete & utter bollocks>" ;)

[09:49:26]

gbee:

like the English lit lessons that forever ruined Shakespeare, Golding and others for me

[09:50:16]

justinh:

visiting galleries is funny because of those 'intellectual' assholes. they can discuss the arse end out of anything, to no great effect

[09:50:57]

gbee:

why can't people look at a picture, film or book without feeling a compulsion to tell everyone what it meant to them and what they think the artist/author/director was trying to convey

[09:51:20]

justinh:

because their mummy & daddy didn't love them enough? ;)

[09:53:47]

justinh:

that said, I'm probably too much of a snob for my own good too. I mean, wanting to remove ITV from the face of the Earth for one thing...

[09:54:09]

directhex:

but without itv, how can we watch poirot?

[09:54:48]

gbee:

if you draw inspiration from something, or think you see a deeper significance, hidden message in it then fine – but don't spoil it for everyone else who didn't, or who took a different view

[09:56:54]

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[09:57:41]

gbee:

I'm sick of people telling me what I should be seeing in art, even if it's what I already knew instinctively – the act of pulling apart, analysing and interpreting things a hundred different ways just kills whatever beauty I might have originally seen – like seeing a cute kitten and then dissecting it until all you can remember is blood and guts

[09:58:56]

justinh:

anyway, how the feck should anybody know wtf a long-dead artist intended to convey in a painting/etching/whatever

[09:59:27]

gbee:

I've been having this argument for years with people and I think the kitten dissection is the best analogy I've come up with, I'll file that for later use ;)

[09:59:29]

directhex:

"heh, and in this one, lisa's smiling 'cos she farted. hehehe ^__^"

[09:59:39]

justinh:

get rid of the snobbery, maybe more of the proletariat will get involved ;)

[10:00:29]

justinh:

oh & maybe stop ploughing so much public money into bollocks like The Angel Of The Norf ffs

[10:00:45]

justinh:

</philistine>

[10:00:56]

directhex:

i need to get the electrician in

[10:01:42]

gbee:

justinh: exactly – I suspect that all the 'depth' and 'significance' attributed to many authors etc is all in the imagination of these idiots, that they just wrote a story that is pretty much as shallow as it first might appear

[10:02:07]

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[10:02:17]

justinh:

people call that The Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome.. and I agree

[10:04:27]

jblack:

I disagree with you two.

[10:05:31]

justinh:

well, those who subscribe to the opposite idea have to keep justifying the status quo somehow ;)

[10:06:30]

justinh:

overanalyse the ass end out of everything & take all the joy out of it. then wonder why the majority of the world views you as elitist prigs & how come no normal kids ever get into art

[10:06:54]

justinh:

anyway, meanwhile back in #mythtv-users ...

[10:07:06]

jblack:

Oh, I agree things can be overanalyzed.

[10:07:30]

jblack:

I also think that there's room for appreciation of skill.

[10:08:37]

jblack:

i.e., it's not just what, but how.

[10:08:57]

justinh:

we should have more luminaries like Brian Sewell. no nonsense there

[10:09:50]

justinh:

you can accuse him of being a snob, elitist or whatever you want but at least this is true – it can never be said he takes himself too seriously :)

[10:10:25]

justinh:

reading what critics say about the works of the likes of Gilbert & George just crack me up though.. that's the kind of thing I'm talking about

[10:10:47]

jblack:

For example, Seurat's "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte".

[10:11:35]

jblack:

The content isn't anything of deep thought. It's the way he did it that mattered.

[10:11:50]

directhex:

iirc dali had no depth or meaning to any of his work, he was just out for profit

[10:11:55]

directhex:

a model to be emulated <3

[10:12:53]

jblack:

Sure. The great bard was the sitcom writer of his day.

[10:13:41]

jblack:

Or Warhol for that matter.

[10:14:05]

Tomasu is now known as TomasuDlrrp

[10:14:09]

jblack:

Both people that made art I don't have a whole lot of love for.

[10:14:26]

** justinh can spell $$$$$$$ too **

[10:14:52]

jblack:

Few things are done for free. =)

[10:15:28]

jblack:

Hell... Pythagoras had to _pay_ his student to attend

[10:15:45]

directhex:

don't they pay students these days?

[10:15:53]

** laga is not paid. **

[10:16:18]

justinh:

directhex: we used to :)

[10:16:21]

directhex:

in some countries/states they do

[10:16:46]

justinh:

student loans & tuition fees ftw!

[10:16:53]

directhex:

justinh, i'm talking kids. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/340720.stm

[10:17:02]

justinh:

vive la ignorance!

[10:17:04]

jblack:

justinh: loans are pay?

[10:17:07]

jblack:

You should live in america

[10:17:14]

justinh:

we used to give it away

[10:17:28]

justinh:

plenty of people took a lend of that idea. wasters

[10:17:41]

justinh:

smart wasters though :)

[10:17:46]

directhex:

justinh, as per the above, kids on low incomes are paid £160 a month to do a-levels

[10:17:53]

gbee:

jblack: yes, you can appreciate skill but everyone is different and evaluates skill and the results in different ways – discussion gets you nowhere, but in the art world more than most there is an unreasonable level of agreement which leads most sane people to suspect that experts have no opinions of their own, they just go along with each other

[10:18:06]

justinh:

to what end? do you need a-levels to work in LIDL?

[10:18:14]

directhex:

gbee, did you hear about the wine taster con?

[10:18:24]

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[10:18:34]

directhex:

justdave, you need foreign languages to work the tills & read the labels!

[10:18:38]

directhex:

justinh, ^^

[10:18:49]

justinh:

lol

[10:19:03]

justinh:

what, like English innit?

[10:19:07]

jblack:

I don't have a great love for 'experts'. I've bumped into enough of them in various fields to know that expert doesn't directly translate to correct.

[10:19:16]

gbee:

the best example of the diversity in taste and appreciation would be in music – I can't find any two people who have identical tastes, to me some bands are talentless but to others they are the best band in the world

[10:20:06]

gbee:

directhex: no

[10:20:34]

jblack:

Which takes us right back to changing art after initial release. Some that loved it before the change hate it after, and the converse as well.

[10:20:38]

directhex:

"Frederic Brochet, of the University of Bordeaux, conducted two separate and very mischievous experiments. In the first test, Brochet invited 57 wine experts and asked them to give their impressions of what looked like two glasses of red and white wine. The wines were actually the same white wine, one of which had been tinted red with food coloring. But that didn't stop the experts from describing the "red" wine in language typica

[10:20:38]

directhex:

lly used to describe red wines. One expert praised its "jamminess," while another enjoyed its "crushed red fruit." Not a single one noticed it was actually a white wine."

[10:21:17]

directhex:

"The second test Brochet conducted was even more damning. He took a middling Bordeaux and served it in two different bottles. One bottle was a fancy grand-cru. The other bottle was an ordinary vin du table. Despite the fact that they were actually being served the exact same wine, the experts gave the differently labeled bottles nearly opposite ratings. The grand cru was "agreeable, woody, complex, balanced and rounded," while the

[10:21:17]

directhex:

vin du table was "weak, short, light, flat and faulty". Forty experts said the wine with the fancy label was worth drinking, while only 12 said the cheap wine was."

[10:21:29]

justinh:

is it pleasing to drink? yes. does it get you drunk if you have enough? yes. buy it

[10:21:30]

jblack:

Huh. I can tell the difference between red and white.

[10:21:58]

jblack:

Think it was an emperor clothing story?

[10:22:16]

gbee:

directhex: hehe, love it

[10:22:30]

justinh:

and the wine-tasting world reacted how? ;)

[10:22:57]

jblack:

nice

[10:23:00]

directhex:

http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/11/the_su . . . rce=rss_feed

[10:24:12]

gbee:

I do think it's incredible that they'd be unable to tell the difference between red and white, but then I'm sure there are some wines that of both colours that have similar taste

[10:24:43]

justinh:

when all mixed up with vodka in a punch bowl they're all the same

[10:24:44]

jblack:

yeah. I think wine tasting is fluffy bullshit too.

[10:25:16]

jblack:

gbee: I suppose that's entirely possible.

[10:28:39]

justinh:

and yes, the extra layers of cotton on this particular model of HDMI cable softly wrap the atoms in a fluffy cushion, greatly reducing jitter & picture dropouts

[10:29:25]

gbee:

having unrefined taste buds is probably more of the blessing than a curse – if I can't taste the difference between the cheap and expensive (whatever the food/drink) than that makes me lucky, since I can save my money ;)

[10:29:48]

justinh:

(I paid £5000000 for that cable & I'd be an idiot if I didn't notice enough of an improvement to justify such an expense)

[10:30:00]

jblack:

heh. Give me a cheeseburger and diet coke any time.

[10:30:22]

jblack:

justinh: discodiant reasoning? I buy that

[10:30:43]

jblack:

I used the wrong word.

[10:31:45]

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[10:32:03]

justinh:

hmm I wonder how many 3rd world people could be fed for a year for the price of one bottle of Chateu de Neuf Bollox Nouvelle

[10:32:25]

justinh:

oops. communist thoughts again. must. stop

[10:32:50]

gbee:

maplin's are refusing to answer my question about the benefits of gold plated TOS connectors – in fact I notice that they are now blocking questions entirely on that item to stop others questioning it ;)

[10:33:13]

justinh:

hahaha

[10:33:33]

justinh:

maybe the gold plating stops the plastic oxidising

[10:33:49]

gbee:

oh, of course .... silly me

[10:35:01]

jblack:

Actually.....

[10:35:04]

justinh:

hmm come to think about it.. depending on how the gold is deposited of course.. wouldn't that have a likelihood of actually *worsening* the cable by affecting the smoothness of the outer wall? :-O

[10:35:20]

jblack:

Now sure, there's a HUGE ripoff going on, it's not _entirely_ without reason.

[10:35:39]

jblack:

Check out tin not doped with lead sometime. Whiskers form.

[10:36:18]

jblack:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lo . . . age&cd=1

[10:36:24]

justinh:

eventually, sure

[10:36:38]

jblack:

actually, http://lowendmac.com/mail/07/0628.html is a better url for the latter.

[10:41:32]

justinh:

er.. 9mm growth per year?! ffs! wow

[10:44:06]

jblack:

Yeah. I used to have a problem with those myself when I lived in san diego.

[10:44:20]

jblack:

Bargain basement asian equipment.

[10:46:43]

justinh:

here was I thinking nickel would be cheaper than pure tin

[10:49:00]

justinh:

heh @ the users thread about recording the olympics. I wonder if there's a way to AVOID recording any olympic coverage

[10:50:09]

justinh:

as in avoiding the "oh, the show originally scheduled was deemed less important, so here's more coverage of the UK narrowly missing a bronze in archery"

[10:53:48]

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[10:57:04]

justinh:

oh, somebody has a 'few issues' with the screen size wizard. yeah well not RTFMing can produce side effects

[10:58:33]

justinh:

gbee: not nagging btw but did you ever manage to figure out what was up with that thing not working right without the settings being reset?

[10:59:51]

gbee:

no, sorry, can't promise to fix it any time soon but I'll try

[11:00:16]

justinh:

that's fine I couldn't remember if it'd ever been resolved or not

[11:01:43]

justinh:

I'm not sure it ever will – make a piece of canvas a certain size & you can't paint outside of it ;)

[11:02:51]

justinh:

fixing the origins properly might be possible. I'll put my thinking hat on

[11:11:30]

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[11:12:54]

justinh:

yet again I find myself wondering what's really wrong here – the perception that it's broken or just that it has limitations we already know about

[11:13:15]

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[11:14:40]

coolerguy:

is there an easy way to make mythtv find and stream video from SMB servers?

[11:15:21]

justinh:

yes

[11:15:35]

justinh:

or rather, no

[11:15:49]

justinh:

I think you have mythtv confused with XBMC

[11:16:06]

coolerguy:

okay?

[11:16:15]

coolerguy:

why?

[11:17:13]

justinh:

although if you think about it for a sec, mounting said SMB share to a directory you point mythvideo at & enable file browsing...

[11:18:36]

justinh:

you do have to actually mount it somehow though. there's no entering SMB://foo.bar/share in paths nonsense

[11:19:44]

gbee:

*cough* samba is shit *cough*

[11:20:00]

coolerguy:

so... symlinking from the myth video folder to where the volume is mounted, right?

[11:20:54]

justinh:

that might work. trying it would cost you nothing

[11:25:00]

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[11:31:42]

justinh:

course it helps to read the little help text in mythvideo's path entry field which tells you that multiple dirs can be specified, separated by semicolons

[11:39:53]

gbee:

huzzah, scalable mythuibuttonlists finally work, sort of

[11:40:00]

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[11:40:54]

wagnerrp:

fuckers teepee'd my house

[11:41:07]

laga:

haha

[11:41:42]

wagnerrp:

i get woken up after about 3 hours of sleep, and told to come outside with a rake and help clean

[11:43:04]

directhex:

we got egged a week or two ago

[11:43:33]

wagnerrp:

i go outside, and my mom claims 'they stole the recycling'

[11:43:44]

wagnerrp:

honestly, who the fuck would steal garbage

[11:43:56]

wagnerrp:

the garbage truck just came and collected early

[11:44:12]

justinh:

egging or teepeeing is a sight better than having your house petrol bombed though, so be glad :)

[11:44:50]

wagnerrp:

well theres only one house of mouth breathers on the street we think might have done it

[11:44:55]

gbee:

heh, well metals are worth enough these days that I'm expecting people to start taking the cans from the recycling here

[11:45:21]

wagnerrp:

i have to imagine if they had decided to play with fire, there would be burned corpses out in front of our house instead of toilet paper

[11:46:36]

justinh:

gbee: let em do it round here, PLEASE. we've got 2 fullsize wheelie bins for recycling. one for glass, one for paper. Tins go in a polythene bag smaller than a pedal bin liner. nothing at all for the biggest constituent of rubbish, i.e. plastics

[11:47:01]

justinh:

I don't know where they got the idea anybody goes through that much paper & glass in 2 weeks

[11:47:31]

wagnerrp:

they pick up just about anything easily recyclable around here

[11:47:45]

wagnerrp:

one bin a week, newspapers, plastic/glass bottles, cans

[11:48:14]

gbee:

justinh: glass, plastic, cans all go in a single wheelie here, another large wheelie for garden/kitchen waste and cardboard, bag for newpaper/white paper

[11:48:19]

justinh:

a wheelie bin full of glass is a hell of a lot of wine. or indeed jam

[11:48:40]

laga:

recycling companies are actually fighting with the town over paper recycling here

[11:48:44]

wagnerrp:

but its just a single bin, they do all the separating on their end

[11:48:47]

justinh:

see that sounds like it makes sense gbee

[11:49:07]

justinh:

ours is like huh? why bother?

[11:49:25]

gbee:

it seems to work well

[11:49:29]

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[11:49:36]

wagnerrp:

pretty much any food waste we have, besides bone, just goes down the sink

[11:50:15]

laga:

must be lovely if that is clogged..

[11:50:17]

justinh:

then again, I bet your council hasn't come up with a hair-brained congestion charging scheme

[11:50:31]

gbee:

all compostable material gets composted here

[11:50:34]

wagnerrp:

in sink grinder prevents that

[11:50:58]

justinh:

we got the bus into town on sunday. £3.50 each, single fare :-O

[11:51:05]

wagnerrp:

no compost collection either

[11:51:05]

gbee:

justinh: heh, they did but it was so unpopular despite the huge government subsidies it would bring that they dumped it

[11:51:10]

justinh:

you can park all day for less even during the week

[11:51:39]

justinh:

and it doesn't take 45 minutes to drive 7 miles by car ;)

[11:51:41]

wagnerrp:

the neighbors once decided to build a compost heap, only they didnt realize that you had to put effort into a compost heap

[11:51:46]

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[11:51:56]

wagnerrp:

it wasnt just some pit in which you threw all your garbage

[11:52:02]

justinh:

heh

[11:52:24]

gbee:

£3.50 is steep, really steep ... I mean I complain about it being £2.70 return here ...

[11:53:02]

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[11:53:11]

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[11:53:11]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stoffel_

[11:53:14]

justinh:

we love our train service but they plan to get rid of it in favour of the tram. can you spell 400% price increase? :(

[11:53:36]

gbee:

it's not quite 7 miles into town from here though

[11:53:36]

wagnerrp:

we have no 'congestion charges' over here, bus fare is $1, but parking is horrendous

[11:53:45]

justinh:

no frequency increase either, I should add

[11:53:54]

wagnerrp:

$8/day, or $220 for 10 weeks

[11:54:23]

justinh:

gimme a viable alternative to my car & I'll use it, yes sir I will

[11:55:27]

justinh:

think of all the TV/radio/reading I could catch up on if I could get public transport to work in a realistic timeframe

[11:55:36]

wagnerrp:

public transportation would be fantastic if i lived and worked in a large city, but where i am now, it just doesnt work

[11:55:57]

justinh:

so much for the myth that other countries get it right all the time, then ;)

[11:56:45]

wagnerrp:

i think i could do it, but it would involve about 3 hours of bus, and a half-mile hike back to work

[11:57:27]

justinh:

heh I work 35 miles away from home. train fares are £15 each way & would take 3 hours each way. Nice long day

[11:57:27]

wagnerrp:

i work at the top of a sizeable hill, there is stuff at the top and bottom of the hill, but the hill itself is empty

[11:57:38]

wagnerrp:

so they put the bus stop right in the middle of the hill

[11:57:47]

wagnerrp:

theres not even a side walk on the hill

[11:57:51]

justinh:

oops

[11:57:54]

wagnerrp:

how are you supposed to get to the bus stop

[11:58:16]

justinh:

teleportation? (you mean you can't?!)

[11:58:44]

wagnerrp:

im still a quarter mile down some private drive anyway

[11:59:08]

wagnerrp:

shitty, unkept private drive

[11:59:17]

wagnerrp:

so roller blades or skateboard would be ill advised

[12:02:17]

justinh:

good that our congestion charge is going to the vote though. it'll be even better if they don't rig/ignore it too

[12:04:02]

wagnerrp:

northern states over here like their toll roads

[12:04:12]

wagnerrp:

i dont know why theyre willing to put up with it

[12:07:10]

** justinh is puzzled by skd5aner's mentioning of him on the -users list & the misrepresentation therein **

[12:10:09]

wagnerrp:

ok, back to bed

[12:10:56]

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[12:11:22]

Freman:

Hey guys, is there a way to make the internal mythdvd player skip streight into playing the longest chapter?

[12:11:33]

Freman:

like you can with the external ones?

[12:11:50]

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[12:12:36]

gbee:

without pressing any buttons at all? No – there is a jump to main chapter binding iirc

[12:13:03]

gbee:

I've actually got a patch somewhere which could be modified to add that behaviour according to a user setting

[12:13:25]

gbee:

I'll dig that out when I get time

[12:14:09]

gbee:

doesn't jump to the longest chapter, just the one labelled as the main title

[12:15:03]

justinh:

wonder how this'd sit with all the criticism that myth has too many settings already :P

[12:16:12]

Freman:

Yes, that's what I'd like, if you can find it gbee :)

[12:16:43]

justinh:

when did being a couch potato get so lazy that one or 2 button presses is too many, anyhow?

[12:16:45]

Freman:

Meh, I like settings, the more the better, some prefer things to be simple, but they are generally the kind that fit well into a moulded society

[12:17:15]

Freman:

justinh: it's more about the anti-piracy garbage at the start of every dvd these days... and the advertising

[12:17:40]

GreyFoxx:

too many settings is a bad thing, imho

[12:17:46]

justinh:

I thought myth already let you skip past them anyway

[12:17:49]

Freman:

You only set it up once...

[12:17:51]

gbee:

it can work two ways, jump straight to the menu, or jump straight to the film

[12:17:53]

GreyFoxx:

code complexity, bugs, and so on

[12:17:57]

GreyFoxx:

and support nightmare

[12:18:03]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: agreed

[12:18:21]

Freman:

GreyFoxx: from that standpoint yes, but for customization...

[12:18:29]

Freman:

I don't mind if it's a compile option :)

[12:18:37]

Freman:

gbee – jumping streight to the menu would be good

[12:18:38]

GreyFoxx:

and later it's a restriction on code growth because you have to weigh the decision of people bitching that you had to remove something :)

[12:18:54]

justinh:

GreyFoxx: remove/rename ;)

[12:19:11]

GreyFoxx:

BUT I personally would find that feature useful :)

[12:19:30]

gbee:

there are definately settings that we could remove but also a few that we should add – the balance is tricky and every setting should be well justified even if it means alienating a minority who want the option

[12:19:41]

justinh:

GreyFoxx: btw I hacked those comments in last night. playback now starts doubly quick :D

[12:19:46]

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[12:19:58]

Freman:

yes, there is a stack of settings I don't even look at

[12:20:01]

GreyFoxx:

Sweet, I knew it would make a difference for some

[12:20:19]

Freman:

and then there's the few (sound) that I can never get right the first time round – or right in general

[12:20:22]

GreyFoxx:

justin: I'm gonna get off my butt and rearrange that particular code before 0.22

[12:20:26]

justinh:

still sits there for 2 secs waiting for data from the backend though but I can live with that

[12:20:38]

justinh:

< 5 secs now :)

[12:20:39]

GreyFoxx:

hehe

[12:20:55]

gbee:

I've removed a bunch of settings from mythvideo as part of the mythui port – I'll have to don my flameproof underwear when it gets merged back to trunk

[12:21:09]

justinh:

where that 2 secs comes from I'll never know

[12:21:21]

justinh:

not network latency :P

[12:21:27]

Freman:

I don't really use that much from there even – what dir, what player, what rip settings (subtitles especially)

[12:21:30]

gbee:

justinh: never that slow for me, despite a remote backend

[12:21:37]

Freman:

everything else in mythvideo is about the same

[12:21:54]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: it looks like it's a specific mix of libttf versions

[12:22:08]

GreyFoxx:

I had someone update libttf and the slow channel changes started

[12:22:13]

justinh:

'if <day of the week> do XYZ when REW pressed'..

[12:22:15]

GreyFoxx:

I reverted it and his changes went back to normal

[12:22:37]

justinh:

gbee: just do it anyway, I'll back you up

[12:22:44]

gbee:

ahh, the fonts are a bitch – wonder what happened to sphery's fixes

[12:23:18]

justinh:

why is there even a need to specify so many different fonts anyway? I doubt ANYBODY ever touches them

[12:23:29]

GreyFoxx:

I've been meaning to redo that bit of code for way too long

[12:23:33]

Freman:

there are font settings? :)

[12:23:34]

gbee:

justinh: oh I'm not really that worried, I can fully justify what I've removed (mostly stuff relating to the appearance/behaviour of each screen)

[12:23:58]

Freman:

they should become merged with myth'

[12:24:00]

Freman:

anyway

[12:24:07]

gbee:

or stuff which exists merely to work around a bug or missing/incomplete feature

[12:24:45]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: was it you then, not sphery who was working on some font optimisations? I've a poor memory

[12:25:00]

GreyFoxx:

he might have as well after I first found it

[12:25:19]

justinh:

I think he did take a look at it. some distant memory of that

[12:25:22]

GreyFoxx:

but at the same time I was thinking of a global object cache and he might have been waiting on me for that

[12:25:52]

GreyFoxx:

now I'm planning on just a image cache and rewritting the CC font loading to be on an ass needed basis only rather than all fonts, all sizes every time

[12:26:05]

GreyFoxx:

considering the vast majority don't use them

[12:26:18]

** Freman raises hand as a sample of the vast majority **

[12:26:20]

gbee:

small things like not loading fonts if there are no captions in the stream

[12:26:24]

GreyFoxx:

yeah

[12:26:45]

justinh:

and maybe just have a global CC font instead of all those different options... I dunno if there's a good reason for that though

[12:27:18]

GreyFoxx:

Once you merge back in mythvideo I'm going to convert my existing load/scale/cache bit and convert stuff like mythgame and so on to use it

[12:27:33]

GreyFoxx:

and likely many other bits too

[12:27:44]

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[12:28:11]

gbee:

I've been thinking about that and it might need a different approach, I ran into an issue in mythgallery

[12:28:25]

^V^:

Hi, for some reason I can't get mp3 audio to play in the internal mythtv player (part of a DVB stream) but it works when using mplayer. Any ideas?

[12:28:41]

directhex:

you didn't compile mythtv with mp3 support?

[12:28:47]

justinh:

hmmm. something just came to me about the screen size wizard thing. if GUIsize <> screensize, ask if user wants to reset the size/offset. if not, quit

[12:28:49]

gbee:

I'm now thinking that making the disk caching, scaling etc integral to mythuiimage would be a better idea

[12:29:03]

^V^:

directhex: I didn't compile mythtv myself.. I'm running mythbuntu

[12:29:09]

justinh:

NEWSFLASH! DVB doesn't use mp3 audio. NEWSFLASH!

[12:29:12]

gbee:

directhex: doesn't need it, ffmpeg supports mp3 natively

[12:29:15]

directhex:

hm, then it should work. oh, there's that too

[12:29:16]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: That's where I was going to move my stuff too

[12:29:21]

Freman:

Oh, that's another brilliant question I have for you guys, this multi-stream recording, it's not working for me, does it require driver level support from my dvb card?

[12:29:25]

GreyFoxx:

so it would be used all over the place

[12:29:32]

justinh:

DVB audio is mpeg1 layer 2, or else it's AC3

[12:29:43]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: oh right, ok, then we are probably thinking along the same lines

[12:29:47]

justinh:

Freman: nope

[12:29:58]

^V^:

justinh: yeah, sorry...I meant mpeg

[12:30:13]

gbee:

Freman: no, but you need to explicitly enable it in mythtv-setup

[12:30:16]

justinh:

Freman: though some cards are really lame (think fully featured cards) & do the demuxing onboard

[12:30:31]

Freman:

Yeh I enabled it

[12:30:47]

^V^:

So what could be the problem with the audio playback? AC3 works fine

[12:30:48]

Freman:

I was wondering cos the dvico dual tuner drivers are... unfriendly at the best of times

[12:31:06]

gbee:

ok, then yes, it should work assuming that all the channels you are trying to record are on the same multiplex

[12:31:14]

justinh:

Freman: after enabling it, how many encoders does mythweb say the backend has?

[12:31:29]

^V^:

gbee: but it doesn't :(

[12:31:45]

^V^:

example output from mplayer: VIDEO MPEG2(pid=161) AUDIO MPA(pid=81) NO SUBS (yet)! PROGRAM N. 1

[12:31:52]

gbee:

^V^ try changing the audio channel – there is an option in the OSD menu or press -/+

[12:31:53]

Freman:

checking

[12:32:08]

^V^:

what's the keyboard shortcut?

[12:32:08]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: Right now I take the load request which is passed a label, filename and requested size, and check for ~/.mythtv/themecache/LABEL-PATH-wxh.png (all '/' are converted to -' and if it exists returns it, if not it opens the original, scales it , saves a copy and returns the scaled data

[12:32:31]

Freman:

hmm, I have to fix php first

[12:32:45]

GreyFoxx:

so for example a load of /data/mythtv/videocovers/0083658.jpg is stored as MythVideo--data-mythtv-videocovers-0083658.jpg-276x277.png

[12:33:05]

justinh:

Freman: or just point a browser at http://backend.ip.address:6544 IIRC

[12:33:13]

^V^:

gbee: only one audio stream present

[12:33:35]

GreyFoxx:

gbee: And the beauty is that it's in the theme dir so seperate themes scaled images are kept seperate and get cleaned up when the theme is rescaled for new reslutions and such

[12:33:39]

Freman:

9 encoders

[12:33:43]

Freman:

I have 3 tuners

[12:33:53]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: nice

[12:34:05]

Freman:

but I find my shows still cut each other off.

[12:34:07]

justinh:

Freman: hrm. I had some problems when I upgraded so I just deleted all my tuners & re-set them up

[12:34:13]

GreyFoxx:

it makes a huge scpeed up in my mythvideo gallery and such

[12:34:18]

Freman:

ok, I might try that

[12:34:19]

justinh:

ahh soft-padding can cause that

[12:34:25]

Freman:

oh?

[12:34:30]

Freman:

rip out the soft padding settings?

[12:34:33]

justinh:

i.e. global start early/end late settings

[12:35:01]

Freman:

ooooh... not sure about that – channel 10 is a bit lame in this country... shows can start 20 minutes late...

[12:35:19]

GreyFoxx:

One thing I might add is date checking. See if the user replaced a file with another of the same name

[12:35:30]

GreyFoxx:

if the date on the requested one is newer than the one in the cache, rescale anyway

[12:35:33]

gbee:

I might want to suggest a couple of additions but I'll wait until I've seen what you have now (after it's committed)

[12:35:42]

GreyFoxx:

sure

[12:36:28]

Freman:

I'll try deleting the tuners and putting them back, hoping it's not the soft padding

[12:36:48]

justinh:

Freman: recording rules can still have hard padding IIRC

[12:36:51]

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[12:37:39]

Freman:

sounds like a weekend job :)

[12:37:45]

natty:

hi all

[12:37:46]

gbee:

GreyFoxx: thanks for working on it, it's one less thing I have to worry about :)

[12:37:52]

Freman:

I'll try all three later when it's not doing anything

[12:38:08]

Freman:

in the mean time I'll sit arround and salivate for gbee's patch :)

[12:39:38]

Freman:

might be able to start tinkering my own in myth soon – I just sent my first official kernel patch in :)

[12:40:43]

natty:

anybody out there have an MediaMVP connected to a remote mythTV server (on OpenSuse11)?

[12:41:34]

gbee:

Freman: might not have time to dig it out and clean it up for a couple of hours

[12:42:05]

Freman:

it's ok, I'll wait :)

[12:42:21]

Freman:

or if it's in an online location, I'll dig :)

[12:42:38]

^V^:

okay.. I see what the problem is... audio plays fine when ffmpeg is used but not when libmpeg2 is used... why is that?

[12:45:52]

justinh:

because libmpeg2 doesn't have the right level of support? or maybe you're missing libmp3lame which happens to also support mpeg1 layer2

[12:46:24]

justinh:

in my experience libmpeg2 has never given better results than ffmpeg anyway

[12:46:39]

gbee:

has ffmpeg not evolved well past libmpeg2?

[12:46:53]

justinh:

might be another interesting feature to introduce the concept of extinction to ;)

[12:47:35]

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[12:48:54]

natty:

is there anyone with experience of MythTV as a server? I'm sooo close (or maybe I'm not) to getting it to work.. :)

[12:49:07]

justinh:

ruh?

[12:49:59]

^V^:

I was only using libmpeg2 because of the lower processing requirements

[12:51:04]

sid3windr:

mythtv as a server eh

[12:51:06]

cesman:

natty: define "server"

[12:51:12]

^V^:

I guess ffmpeg will be fine though. Thanks for the help

[12:51:41]

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[12:51:43]

natty:

ok...I have a server box in my local subnet running MythTV

[12:51:47]

justinh:

^V^: I'd put money on libmpeg2 not being measurably better performing than ffmpeg

[12:51:50]

natty:

and thats working fine

[12:52:39]

cesman:

so, what is the issue?

[12:52:39]

natty:

but I wnat to pipe that throught to the MediaMVP box connected to my TV

[12:53:08]

natty:

issue is I can't get the MVP to connect to the server...

[12:53:37]

cesman:

is mysql on you backend configured to accept connections?

[12:54:04]

justinh:

is mythbackend running on the LAN IP address of the box as opposed to 127.0.0.1 ?

[12:54:04]

cesman:

in mythtv-setup, under General do you have the actual IPs of the server listed?

[12:54:25]

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[12:54:30]

cesman:

those should be the only two things you need to do....

[12:54:40]

justinh:

is mysql bound to 127.0.0.1 or the LAN IP address ?

[12:54:51]

cesman:

I've no personal experience w/ the MediaMVP

[12:55:45]

natty:

i'll check tttthe mysqul parts, the General settings are right, and the mythbackend is running on the IP of the machine..

[12:55:49]

gbee:

Freman, GreyFoxx: ok, I can easily extract the part of the patch which would allow jumping straight to the menu, I remembered wrong that the jumping to main title does indeed depend on determining the largest VOB and splitting out this part of the patch will take a little longer

[12:55:50]

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[12:56:05]

justinh:

natty: if the IP addresses in the general page within mythtv-setup are set to 127.0.0.1, you need to change them to the LAN ip address of the box & restart mythbackend for said changes to take effect

[12:56:35]

gbee:

s/vob/ifo/

[12:56:43]

natty:

justinh – thanks, nope they are set to the IP address of the box so that parts ok

[12:57:40]

Freman:

gbee: I think you'll find a carton of beer for the menu jump

[12:58:02]

justinh:

then it's either mysql privileges or the lack of mysql being bound to the LAN IP address

[12:58:07]

Freman:

it pretty much acheives the same goal – skip all the crud they're sticking on the front of dvd's these days

[12:58:30]

justinh:

I think I've only ever bought two dvds in my life

[12:58:41]

justinh:

the rest have all been unwanted gifts

[12:58:55]

justinh:

or rented :)

[12:59:41]

gbee:

I'll add both eventually – although the jumping to title is only 95% accurate since there is no absolute way to determine which is the main title other than by size

[13:00:13]

natty:

justinh: thanks ill look into that and come back

[13:00:53]

Freman:

justinh: rentals are just as bad

[13:02:32]

justinh:

not rented a dvd for years now

[13:03:32]

Freman:

I got really peved off at the whole issue when I bought a boxed set of stargate dvd's that had advertising and anti-piracy messages on every disc in the box...

[13:03:57]

Freman:

I mean, I've just bought season 8, don't you think I might automatically be going to by, or have already bought, the other 7 seasons?

[13:04:08]

justinh:

heh. I hear Disney are pretty bad for adverts

[13:04:22]

Freman:

the industry seems to be TRYing to insult me...

[13:04:36]

justinh:

succeeding, by the sound of it!

[13:04:43]

Freman:

no, just ticking me off

[13:05:05]

justinh:

went to see Wall-E the other week. we got there late & missed all the adverts & trailers & anti-piracy preaching :D

[13:05:28]

Freman:

we've switched from "You wouldn't steal a car" to "aussies make great films"... um sure... the only aussie film I've seen that I remmember was the dish, and it was crap

[13:05:40]

justinh:

literally 30 minutes worth of adverts & crap

[13:05:53]

Freman:

I don't go to cinemas any more

[13:06:03]

Freman:

I've been slowly integrating mythtv with my home theator

[13:06:09]

justinh:

only way to see a film properly IMHO

[13:06:17]

justinh:

can't beat the communal experience

[13:06:30]

Freman:

5.1 surround sound, 109" screen, I can sit down with a steak, and no-one talks

[13:06:40]

justinh:

nobody talks when I go, or they die

[13:06:43]

Freman:

controlls lights, remotes, switching video/audio inputs

[13:06:52]

Freman:

all being handled by mythtv

[13:07:09]

Freman:

some of it even automatically (perl + x hacks + telnet remote control)

[13:07:45]

justinh:

for something we do so occasionally I'd find it difficult to justify the use of space/expense

[13:07:51]

kslater:

Freman: don't forget – no knuckleheaded teens text messaging in the middle of the movie and blinding you with their white background on their cell phones

[13:07:55]

Freman:

I can't justify the expense of the cinemas :)

[13:08:13]

Freman:

last time I went with a friend... it was $30.

[13:08:17]

justinh:

esp. considering the lack of decent output these days

[13:08:19]

justinh:

wha?!

[13:08:29]

Freman:

australia – we'll rip your wallet apart

[13:08:58]

justinh:

we go on Orange Wednesdays.. txt 'film' to 241 from an orange phone. £6 for two

[13:09:11]

Freman:

I wish

[13:09:28]

Freman:

but then... 6 pound is almost $20

[13:09:33]

justinh:

hell, £15 on a weekend gets you 'the studio' – basically 'VIP' viewing

[13:10:04]

justinh:

free soft drinks, nachos, popcorn, chocolates, massive armchair affair

[13:10:16]

justinh:

£10 mid-week

[13:10:30]

Freman:

$80 here

[13:10:34]

Freman:

for 2

[13:10:35]

justinh:

and a licenced bar at good prices

[13:10:46]

Freman:

wait1?!? free stuff?

[13:10:52]

justinh:

so if the film sucks you can get drunk :D

[13:10:53]

** Freman moves to justinh's land **

[13:11:15]

Freman:

nup, home theator easy justified here

[13:11:24]

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[13:11:38]

Freman:

it's only 800x600, but... it's better then tv :)

[13:11:40]

justinh:

its the best kept secret in a lot of cinemas. it actually works out cheaper if you go in for popcorn etc. what they charge for those at the concessions stands is robbery

[13:12:11]

justinh:

£6 for a 'small' popcorn – which is actually the size of a small car

[13:12:47]

Freman:

we only have the concessions stands

[13:13:02]

justinh:

I hope we don't catch on here

[13:13:40]

Freman:

probably one of the reasons australia is such a heavy downloader of pirate films and tv shows, 1) our 4 channels like to show things out of order, if at all... 2) we get ripped assunder when we try to do the right thing

[13:13:48]

justinh:

1st time we went, bar staff gave us 2 bottles of wine cos it was my wife's birthday. we have BEEN to see Spiderman but I'll be damned if I can remember what happens

[13:13:59]

exburn:

i edited the mainmenu.xml and it did not effect anything

[13:14:36]

justinh:

exburn: you need to reload mythfrontend, or issue a killall mythfrontend -USR1

[13:15:35]

Freman:

oooh, thanks that kill signal will come in handy :)

[13:16:45]

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[13:23:09]

gbee:

pastebin.ca down?

[13:23:30]

justinh:

apparently

[13:23:38]

justinh:

unless it's VM's fault

[13:23:59]

gbee:

:/ pastebin.com doesn't allow you to upload files

[13:26:49]

Freman:

that's why I got a dropbox – problem i it doesn't work in linux yet

[13:27:06]

Freman:

what do you need hosted I can pop it up for a bit

[13:27:11]

gbee:

Freman, GreyFoxx: entirely untested since I've just pulled it out of a larger patch – http://pastebin.com/m1dd90530

[13:27:39]

exburn:

mythfrontend: no process killed

[13:28:11]

justinh:

exburn: yeah but it should force a theme reload

[13:28:20]

Freman:

gbee, it's cool I'll give it a whirl, and try to fix whatever I can :)

[13:28:39]

Freman:

that's... a lot smaller then I thought it'd be :)

[13:28:49]

gbee:

if I get time later in the week I'll test it and commit

[13:29:02]

** justinh wonders if there's an 'inner circle wishlist' anywhere.. **

[13:29:07]

exburn:

nope still no change, why does it take change on root user

[13:29:28]

justinh:

exburn: maybe because you copied it to the wrong place?

[13:29:37]

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[13:29:41]

gbee:

Freman: yeah, the part which allows jumping to the maintitle is a little larger – not huge, but jumping to the menu is a lot easier

[13:29:45]

exburn:

i thought that

[13:30:02]

exburn:

couldnt find another mainmenu.xml

[13:30:04]

justinh:

exburn: you know you can put local xml files into ~/.mythtv

[13:30:21]

Freman:

this is why I love gentoo so much, I can test a patch and commit to using it with so little fuss

[13:30:33]

justinh:

local copies in there will override the defaults

[13:31:04]

Freman:

I admit it's a pain in the butt to maintain sometimes :)

[13:32:13]

Freman:

seems tonight I fail at patching

[13:32:26]

Freman:

patch -p1 < dvd.patch

[13:32:34]

Freman:

patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.

[13:34:34]

justinh:

you didn't wget http://pastebin.com/m1dd90530 > dvd.patch, I hope...

[13:35:20]

Freman:

no no :)

[13:35:33]

Freman:

http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=m1dd90530

[13:35:51]

Freman:

crazy maybe, stupid – not always :)

[13:37:08]

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[13:40:14]

gbee:

pastebin.com is screwing it up somehow

[13:41:44]

Freman:

it's ok, I'm manually applying

[13:42:36]

exburn:

still nothing

[13:43:24]

gbee:

it's weird since the patch after downloading doesn't apply, but diff/kompare tell me it's identical to the original

[13:43:35]

gbee:

guessing EOL problems

[13:44:38]

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[13:45:06]

Freman:

I even tried copying it from the text box and pasting it to cat – > diff

[13:45:43]

Freman:

it's small enough, I've already applied it

[13:46:42]

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[13:48:03]

Freman:

about to build gbee :)

[13:48:47]

Freman:

ooooh crud, I'm glad I backed that up first :)

[13:48:58]

gbee:

think pastebin.com uses windows line endings or something

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[14:04:30]

kambei:

I'm having a little Myth trouble. I changed from a Gentoo-based system to Ubuntu. It seems like the machine now has a hard time playing back video. When it is commercial flagging, HD video stutters greatly, and is unwatchable. I have tried a bunch of different approaches to solving this issue, to no avail. Any ideas?

[14:05:40]

Sulx:

switch distro :I

[14:05:52]

kambei:

I did.

[14:05:56]

kambei:

That seems to be my problem.

[14:06:00]

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[14:06:49]

justinh:

there you go then. you know what's wrong :)

[14:06:53]

kambei:

Not really.

[14:06:58]

kambei:

I think it's a config problem.

[14:07:39]

kambei:

Do you guys just hate Ubuntu, or something?

[14:08:37]

jblack:

Ubuntu is fine for myth. That's what I use

[14:08:47]

justinh:

I just hate users

[14:09:02]

kambei:

Fair enough.

[14:09:02]

justinh:

pretty universal, nothing distro-centric

[14:09:22]

jblack:

kambei: you probably lost acceleration with x.org.

[14:09:23]

justinh:

usual questions follow. video card? drivers used? etc...

[14:09:33]

jblack:

Try things like gltest and such. Odds are they're running slow too.

[14:09:45]

kambei:

GL seems fine.

[14:10:00]

kambei:

It is an Opteron 185 (duel core)

[14:10:02]

kambei:

dual

[14:10:05]

jblack:

And?

[14:10:09]

justinh:

if using nvidia, install the binary (restricted driver). yah-boo sucks if you heart OSS drivers

[14:10:28]

kambei:

I have the proprietary nvidia drivers

[14:10:29]

Freman:

hehe, more of a "just make it work" man myself

[14:10:51]

jblack:

kambei: So use the free software nvidia driver.

[14:11:05]

justinh:

jblack: that won't improve anything

[14:11:12]

kambei:

Yeah, I dont' see how that will help.

[14:11:14]

justinh:

it'd make it worse if anything

[14:11:18]

jblack:

I thoguth you were asking for ideas of what to check.

[14:11:21]

kambei:

I am.

[14:11:26]

kambei:

And I appreciate your ideas.

[14:11:40]

jblack:

Like I said, check xorg.conf, make sure dri isn't disabled.

[14:11:47]

kambei:

DRI is not enabled.

[14:11:53]

laga:

ah. kambei was cross-posting so i'll continue in here

[14:11:58]

laga:

try a different video display profile

[14:11:58]

justinh:

so it is disabled then!

[14:12:17]

kambei:

Yes.

[14:12:26]

** justinh goes back to sleep. fscking cross-posters. greedy bastards **

[14:12:32]

kambei:

I am quite proficient at general Linux config.

[14:12:49]

jblack:

great. why are you asking for help, then?

[14:12:59]

jblack:

I'm trying to help, and you've been nothing but hostile.

[14:13:06]

kambei:

Well, I posted the question to mythbuntu, since it the question was ubuntu related, with the notice that I was also posting the question here.

[14:13:10]

kambei:

I've been hostile?

[14:13:17]

jblack:

Yeah, so bugger off.

[14:13:32]

kambei:

Please explain how I have been hostile?

[14:13:40]

kambei:

It was not my intention.

[14:15:03]

laga:

this channel is priceless

[14:15:35]

jblack:

heh

[14:16:20]

kambei:

jblack: Listen, if I appeared hostile, it was definitely not intentional. I don't even understand what you're referring to, but I apologize if it appeared that way.

[14:16:37]

justinh:

laga: go hug a noob or something ;)

[14:17:16]

jblack:

Hey! What's wrong with noobs? I like noobs!

[14:17:50]

natty:

hi again...[MediaMVP connecting to MythTV probs].. I have checked the MySQL settings all seem ok; the problem seems to be that the MVP cant find the server...I'm using OpenSuse11, all firwall ports open...

[14:18:08]

jblack:

At least when they're not lying to you (I already checked that four times), screwing with you (oh, that's the config file from before I changed it), or otherwise kicking themselves in the balls. :)

[14:18:24]

justinh:

settings SEEM ok? are they ACTUALLY ok?

[14:18:26]

natty:

do you know if its possible to telnet into the MVP or something to force it to look at the right IP?

[14:18:56]

jblack:

sorry natty. if i have a mediamvp, i don't know it. Is that a baseball thing?

[14:18:59]

natty:

I'm a noob, sorry, but according to the googled solutions I have found they are ok

[14:19:08]

justinh:

if you issue a command like mysql -u mythtv -p$password -h ip.add.re.ss does it work?

[14:19:39]

justinh:

i.e. can you access the database from a different machine?

[14:19:55]

justinh:

that's probably crucial

[14:20:06]

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[14:20:20]

kambei:

Well, thanks anyway for the attempt.

[14:20:30]

natty:

erm...I only have winblows machines to check which dont have mysql I think..hold on ill try...

[14:21:14]

natty:

(other than the MVP box of ocurse)

[14:21:37]

justinh:

kambei: check how much CPU commflagging/user jobs are set to use... the default should normally be 'not much'

[14:21:57]

kambei:

justinh: Where do I find that particular setting?

[14:22:09]

justinh:

in mythtv-setup

[14:22:19]

justinh:

general page IIRC

[14:22:29]

kambei:

justinh: Like I said, the general Linux stuff is no problem. Myth in particular I am less familiar with. I don't know right off the top of my head where each setting is.

[14:22:34]

justinh:

can't tell you any more than that without going in myself & looking

[14:22:42]

kambei:

justinh: No problem. I appreciate it.

[14:23:04]

justinh:

also, you said DRI was disabled. try enabling it

[14:23:16]

kambei:

justinh: I will double-check that now. Also I am running the frontend with elevated privileges.

[14:23:32]

kambei:

justinh: I want DRI for an nvidia GPU?

[14:23:33]

justinh:

sometimes that is counter productive

[14:24:11]

kambei:

justinh: Yeah, well I have been having a lot of trouble, so I was trying anything I could think of to try to narrow down the problem.

[14:24:32]

kambei:

justinh: Let me go check the setup once again. Thanks.

[14:25:10]

justinh:

also maybe experiment with different video playback profiles. mythfrontend – > utils/setup > setup > tv settings > playback

[14:26:13]

kambei:

justinh: The other thing I noticed was that when I started commercial flagging, even when I ended the flagging process. video still suffered thereafter. And playback maxes both cores of the processor.

[14:28:07]

justinh:

should only use 1 core unless you enabled more

[14:28:56]

justinh:

multithreaded decoding is only any use for HD material encoded in slices & will only have a detrimental effect on playback of material of other types

[14:29:53]

kambei:

Well, I don't know what it's doing, but both cores go to 100%. Where do I find that?

[14:30:01]

justinh:

so, while you're in playback profile settings, check the max # of CPUs to use is set to 1

[14:30:10]

justinh:

maybe it's not mythfrontend ;)

[14:30:26]

justinh:

anyway I'm going home. I've had enough of this dump today

[14:30:48]

natty:

thanks for the help jason...still no joy over here, have a good eve

[14:31:01]

kambei:

justinh: I really appreciate the help. Thank you.

[14:32:34]

gbee:

yay for the SoC ffmpeg project which is adding multithreaded decoding to more codecs

[14:32:57]

GreyFoxx:

yay that's pretty cool

[14:33:26]

GreyFoxx:

the bitblit.org stuff looks interesting too

[14:34:30]

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[14:44:29]

gbee:

yeah, although the multi-thread stuff will have a faster impact since it's part of ffmpeg

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[14:49:35]

Shadow__X:

yay for that

[14:49:49]

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[14:57:51]

jblack:

My daughter gave me an analog radio shaped like a computer. how ironic.

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[15:43:08]

justinh:

yay we're gonna be a 3 laptop household from tonight

[15:43:30]

justinh:

wonder if my desktop machine still works..

[15:44:53]

Pryon:

are you running mythbackend on a laptop?

[15:46:06]

gbee:

my Aspire One is supposed to be shipping this week

[15:46:39]

gbee:

but they've already delayed the release a couple of times and by nearly a month, so I'm not holding my breath

[15:46:50]

justinh:

why would I want to run linux on a laptop? :-O

[15:47:29]

justinh:

it's my wife who needs to run linux on her laptop but she refuses point blank :-\

[15:47:40]

gbee:

lower power consumption, longer battery life ? ;)

[15:47:54]

justinh:

we ain't shelling out for MS Office just for Vista, that's fer shire

[15:49:47]

justinh:

longer battery life? heh not with ubuntu :P (so I read somewhere)

[15:50:21]

gbee:

OpenOffice is fine, koffice isn't too bad either – in fact I'd probably pick koffice for general use as OpenOffice has a larger memory footprint

[15:50:49]

justinh:

OO is bad at opening & saving the real MS docs my wife deals with at work

[15:50:52]

gbee:

but I have both installed and swap between them

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cesman:

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gbee:

welcome back

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[16:09:52]

PatrickDK:

welcome back? your the one that left :)

[16:10:10]

bmead:

I compiled the svn trunk version of mythtv, and the hdpvr driver. I get hd video, but no audio. The terminal running mythfrontend reports "No codec context returning false" Anybody have an Idea how to fix this one?

[16:10:24]

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[16:14:08]

bmead:

anybody see what I am typing?

[16:14:13]

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[16:14:40]

cworth:

bmead: Not me.

[16:15:04]

bmead:

Good at least my irc is working.

[16:15:33]

gbee:

cworth: eh?

[16:15:47]

bmead:

I tried asking these questions on the #hdpvr channel, but there is no-one there.

[16:16:24]

gbee:

bmead: I'd wait around for janneg

[16:16:43]

abqjp:

bmead: I answered you in hdpvr

[16:17:13]

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[16:17:38]

bmead:

I think the hdpvr driver is working just fine, I think it is just the mythtv and possibly the audio codec configuration that I don't have right.

[16:18:47]

bmead:

abqip going back to hdpvr.

[16:21:00]

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[16:27:57]

abqjp:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116030

[16:29:01]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[16:29:42]

Shadow__X:

so according to the comcast tech that just left qam was only a "test" for them with the change to digital

[16:30:14]

Shadow__X:

i just cant believe that i dont want to buy 4 hdpvr's

[16:32:19]

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[16:33:34]

justinh:

Oh , I can. easily :)

[16:34:37]

Shadow__X:

man thats close to 1 thousand i cant afford that one shot

[16:36:25]

justinh:

the whole argument about mythtv being cheap is pretty much non-existent anyway IMHO

[16:36:45]

justinh:

it's certainly not cheaper than a commercial PVR if you value your own time ;)

[16:37:28]

kambei:

justinh: I tried several of your suggestions, and the situation seems to have improved significantly. Time will tell, I suppose. Thanks again for your help.

[16:37:49]

justinh:

but saving money isn't what mythtv is about & that's what almost every single press article seems to miss the point of

[16:38:00]

justinh:

np kambei

[16:38:15]

PatrickDK:

heh why does everything have to use 5v these days

[16:38:17]

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[16:38:20]

PatrickDK:

why cant they just use 12v input

[16:38:21]

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[16:39:24]

Shadow__X:

justinh, i love mythtv dont get me wrong thats more of a complaint directed towards my cable company rather than comcast but i could just switch away from them at that point

[16:39:33]

PatrickDK:

so when is hdpvr v2 coming out :)

[16:39:33]

Shadow__X:

i doubt fios will have qam though

[16:39:37]

Shadow__X:

:(

[16:39:45]

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[16:39:51]

Shadow__X:

hdpvr 2 should have hdmi in :D

[16:40:05]

PatrickDK:

not possible

[16:40:21]

PatrickDK:

but I would love to have 1080p and something higher than 13mbit

[16:40:43]

PatrickDK:

but I'm the crazy one that records SD at 8mbit

[16:40:59]

Shadow__X:

hmm why isnt that possible PatrickDK ?

[16:41:02]

Shadow__X:

if it has hdcp

[16:41:11]

Shadow__X:

or would that just plainly be illegal

[16:41:13]

PatrickDK:

cause they will never get hdcp

[16:41:19]

justinh:

HDCP, that is the problem

[16:41:37]

PatrickDK:

once you convert from hdcp to non-hdcp compliant hardware, it's illegal

[16:41:46]

justinh:

the whole point of HDCP is to restrict what can be recorded, when & by whom

[16:41:57]

Shadow__X:

hmm ah ok

[16:42:18]

justinh:

see 'closing the analogue hole' ;)

[16:42:51]

MrGandalf:

HDCP == corporate greed.

[16:43:03]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[16:43:13]

Shadow__X:

tv should be open

[16:43:15]

justinh:

if a cheap, easy to use & featureful commercial PVR was available, one which didn't have silly format/content/viewing restrictions there'd be no need for things like mythtv

[16:43:16]

Shadow__X:

we pay for it

[16:43:19]

Shadow__X:

we should get it

[16:43:29]

Shadow__X:

if i want to record it so i can watch it later

[16:43:34]

Shadow__X:

wtf the deal

[16:43:40]

Shadow__X:

is the*

[16:43:43]

justinh:

Shadow__X: my sentiments too. but come down really hard on pirates. Like REAL hard

[16:44:05]

PatrickDK:

you pay for it?

[16:44:05]

MrGandalf:

Shadow__X: but you really didn't pay for it though.

[16:44:11]

Shadow__X:

yeah but if there is a will there is a way

[16:44:16]

PatrickDK:

you pay for the cable company to let you view it :)

[16:44:20]

Shadow__X:

right

[16:44:38]

Shadow__X:

so since i pay the cable company should they allow me to TRUELY view it'

[16:44:39]

Shadow__X:

?

[16:44:42]

justinh:

the PPV model is almost right apart from one aspect. the price

[16:45:12]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[16:45:17]

Shadow__X:

ok so lock ppv down

[16:45:23]

justinh:

and of course you ARE free to watch whatever the cable company gives you. on their terms. you don't like it, tell then to stuff it up their jumper

[16:45:34]

Shadow__X:

heh

[16:45:39]

Shadow__X:

but then what option do i have

[16:45:45]

justinh:

if more people did, they'd sit up

[16:46:03]

justinh:

life without television. OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[16:46:10]

AndyCap:

Shadow__X: go out, get some fresh air. go see a movie.

[16:46:11]

MrGandalf:

jumper? maybe stuff it up their modulator.. ;)

[16:46:15]

PatrickDK:

heh

[16:46:20]

PatrickDK:

I hardly watch tv anymore

[16:46:28]

PatrickDK:

if it wasn't for the wife, I wouldn't have cable

[16:46:35]

justinh:

I only watch about 2–3 hours a week.

[16:46:50]

PatrickDK:

I watch 1hour a week now

[16:46:50]

Shadow__X:

AndyCap, the reason why i record is so i can go out and have fresh air then later watch what i recorded

[16:46:56]

justinh:

and with the olympics coming up, that might very well dwindle to nothing once I run out of recordings to watch

[16:47:23]

PatrickDK:

last season I didn't watch anything, just downloaded anything I wanted to watch instead

[16:47:32]

AndyCap:

justinh: what? it will be wall-to-wall explosions all over the news.

[16:47:34]

justinh:

might get around to some development work though :)

[16:47:44]

justinh:

AndyCap: I don't watch TV news

[16:48:38]

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[16:48:50]

justinh:

I hear the news on Radio4 on the way to & from work, so I already know the stories in more depth before the 6pm slot airs the very same stuff on telly

[16:49:06]

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[16:49:45]

justinh:

sitting here in a room without the telly on as wallpaper. I must be getting old!

[16:51:14]

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[17:12:30]

kothog:

going to see a movie: those little brown spots that keep flashing up on the screen are just horrible distractions

[17:13:43]

Shadow__X:

?

[17:14:56]

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[17:16:56]

AndyCap:

kothog: what, you think the projectionist is splicing goatse into the film?

[17:18:50]

joomla_user:

Thats sums up mythtv

[17:19:45]

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[17:23:12]

justinh:

the only thing 'wrong' with going to the cinema is this IMHO: 18FPS

[17:23:31]

justinh:

and guess what – even the leap to bluray isn't going to prevent that ! :(

[17:25:47]

gbee:

18fps? Really?

[17:26:20]

Shadow__X:

because of the reel?

[17:26:39]

justinh:

nah it's really 24fps

[17:27:05]

abqjp:

At least it is 24fps progressive and not interlaced.

[17:28:09]

justinh:

ahh that'd be why it's so judderry then

[17:29:39]

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[17:29:54]

Shadow__X:

tahts why its better to get a 120khz lcd tv?

[17:30:22]

justinh:

nope

[17:30:38]

Shadow__X:

why not

[17:30:40]

justinh:

cos it's not better

[17:30:50]

Shadow__X:

hmm whats the benefit of 120 then

[17:30:56]

justinh:

there is none

[17:31:01]

Shadow__X:

ah

[17:31:03]

keith4:

120 Hz, you mean

[17:31:07]

justinh:

can you spell marketing bullshit?

[17:31:10]

wagnerrp:

a 120hz screen allows then to do interpolation, smothing things out

[17:31:15]

wagnerrp:

its of limited usefulness

[17:32:07]

wagnerrp:

similarly 2160p TVs let them be pixel accurate on all resolutions (1080, 720, 480), but again, limited usefulness

[17:33:05]

Shadow__X:

ah ok

[17:33:37]

wagnerrp:

ive heard people claim that 720p looks better on a 720p screen than a 1080p screen due to the lack of scaling, but considering nearly all 720p TVs run at somethng other than 720p, i cannot believe that either

[17:34:02]

kothog:

AndyCap: no, there's these little brown dots on the action scenes so cams can be tracked to the theatre that showed them. I happen to be able to see the single-frame brown dots when they show up. Not a lot of people can, but it's fscking annoying when you can.

[17:34:28]

justinh:

so blame the pirates

[17:34:40]

wagnerrp:

or blame the MPAA

[17:34:42]

kothog:

I'll blame the MPAA instead.

[17:34:48]

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[17:34:55]

Shadow__X:

mpaa all the way

[17:35:07]

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[17:35:19]

wagnerrp:

its the MPAA who has decided to punish the rest of us because of the actions of a few

[17:35:28]

kothog:

and based on faulty data, too.

[17:35:57]

Shadow__X:

mhm

[17:36:12]

Shadow__X:

there are alot of people who start watching tv shows because they say it online

[17:36:22]

wagnerrp:

the data isnt faulty, just the conclusions that piracy in any way affects their bottom line

[17:36:22]

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[17:36:23]

Shadow__X:

or because someone was able to show them

[17:36:48]

Shadow__X:

they gonna make money anyway they just want to squeeze everylast drop where thye can

[17:36:55]

kothog:

no, the data's also faulty. they claim that Canada was responsible for X% of cam'd movies, and that was a lie.

[17:37:13]

Shadow__X:

wait wait

[17:37:17]

Shadow__X:

your forgetting something

[17:37:26]

** kothog waits. :) **

[17:37:30]

Shadow__X:

we have to blame canada

[17:37:37]

wagnerrp:

:)

[17:37:38]

kothog:

oh yea. Even Canadians do that.

[17:37:38]

Shadow__X:

what where you thinking

[17:38:37]

wagnerrp:

oh yeah, thats bash worthy

[17:38:46]

Shadow__X:

heh

[17:38:57]

wagnerrp:

if only bash were online

[17:40:23]

Shadow__X:

:(

[17:43:43]

AndyCap:

the logical next step of tagging movies for the cinema would be to demand ID and signed contracts of the moviegoers.

[17:43:56]

AndyCap:

and just hold all of the liable if it leaks from that theatre. :)

[17:44:35]

Shadow__X:

or no one go anymore

[17:44:43]

Shadow__X:

and make them break

[17:44:52]

Shadow__X:

really if consumers werent so stupid

[17:45:00]

Shadow__X:

we could make them do whatever we wanted

[17:45:06]

justinh:

same goes for TV, DVD & bluray sales

[17:45:11]

AndyCap:

Shadow__X: what? if people stop going to the movies it's obvious the pirates are to blame, massive crackdowns!

[17:45:27]

justinh:

is denying yourself really that big a deal?

[17:45:35]

Shadow__X:

AndyCap, how will there be crackdowns when they have no money

[17:45:36]

AndyCap:

government subsidies to the poor industry

[17:45:36]

justinh:

think how many hours of your life you might get back!

[17:45:53]

Shadow__X:

i agree justinh

[17:46:03]

Shadow__X:

but alot of people can control themselves

[17:46:08]

Shadow__X:

or most for that matter

[17:46:21]

AndyCap:

and now you can spend them working overtime to pay for the subsidies. :>

[17:46:38]

Shadow__X:

heh

[17:46:48]

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[17:46:51]

joomla_user:

overtime rocks

[17:47:04]

Shadow__X:

the point is if we the consumers got together we could make any company do what we want them to

[17:47:09]

** Shadow__X dance puppets dance **

[17:47:29]

Shadow__X:

but since most consumers are idiots they just tell them what to do and they gladly go along

[17:47:59]

AndyCap:

Shadow__X: and if the companies get together they can get any government to do what they want. :)

[17:48:17]

Shadow__X:

not unless they have users behind them

[17:48:23]

Shadow__X:

they cant do jack without money

[17:48:43]

Shadow__X:

without users blindly paying their gravy train is over

[17:48:47]

joomla_user:

1000 people 100 ideas, no way is that going to work

[17:48:51]

joomla_user:

1000

[17:49:07]

Shadow__X:

we at no point said that it would

[17:49:35]

joomla_user:

Free money

[17:49:53]

Shadow__X:

can someone give joomla_user a free boot?

[17:50:10]

Shadow__X:

nothing is free someone has to pay eventually

[17:50:14]

Shadow__X:

you just hope its not you

[17:51:00]

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[17:51:56]

joomla_user:

Air is free

[17:52:45]

Shadow__X:

so is pollution in that theory

[17:53:00]

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[17:55:22]

joomla_user:

no it costs to create polution

[17:55:29]

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[17:55:38]

Shadow__X:

trees create oxygen

[17:55:55]

wagnerrp:

joomla_user: it costs to not make polution

[17:56:09]

Shadow__X:

:)

[17:56:22]

wagnerrp:

you have to go out of your way to do something differently

[17:56:56]

Shadow__X:

also you can analyze what cost really means

[17:56:59]

Shadow__X:

:)

[17:57:21]

wagnerrp:

although i suppose you could consider that pollution is only produced by inefficient mechanisms

[17:57:39]

Shadow__X:

what truely is efficient

[17:59:16]

wagnerrp:

pure stoichiometric consumption

[17:59:16]

Shadow__X:

i know circuitcity isnt

[17:59:23]

PatrickDK:

heh? when did trees create oxygen?

[17:59:26]

PatrickDK:

I never knew that

[17:59:27]

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[17:59:35]

PatrickDK:

cause they produce just as much co2 as they do oxygen

[17:59:41]

Shadow__X:

maybe it was plants

[17:59:48]

PatrickDK:

same deal

[17:59:56]

PatrickDK:

when they burn, decompose, ....

[18:00:02]

Shadow__X:

yeah

[18:00:04]

PatrickDK:

they cancel out all the oxygen they produced

[18:00:12]

wagnerrp:

trees produce O2 when making food, and then use it back up when consuming that food

[18:00:53]

PatrickDK:

now, I want to hear when we will stop having vocanos producing co2

[18:01:08]

PatrickDK:

cause they are still #1 o the list of co2 producers

[18:01:09]

Shadow__X:

first we need vocanos

[18:01:45]

wagnerrp:

yeah, a big one of those pops and its worth several years of ourCO2 production

[18:01:50]

PatrickDK:

we need vocano's like I need a new computer, and more kids :)

[18:02:19]

Shadow__X:

i wouldnt mind a new computer

[18:02:25]

Shadow__X:

and why would you

[18:02:34]

PatrickDK:

I wouldn't

[18:02:41]

PatrickDK:

the vocano's owes it to me

[18:02:46]

PatrickDK:

to cancel out it's carbon foot print :)

[18:03:29]

Shadow__X:

mhm

[18:03:37]

Shadow__X:

computers atleast process and do stuff

[18:03:40]

Shadow__X:

lol

[18:03:46]

wagnerrp:

i could use a new machine, this current one increases instability the longer its overclocked

[18:04:07]

wagnerrp:

if i overclock it for a month, it will crash increasingly more frequent over time

[18:04:21]

wagnerrp:

starting at maybe a week a crash, and ending at a few hours per crash

[18:04:31]

wagnerrp:

if i clock back to stock, the opposite happens

[18:04:39]

wagnerrp:

crashes will become less and less frequent

[18:04:47]

Shadow__X:

of course

[18:04:53]

Shadow__X:

what processor are you using wagnerrp

[18:05:03]

wagnerrp:

allendale

[18:05:12]

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[18:05:23]

wagnerrp:

low cache, low FSB Core 2

[18:05:39]

wagnerrp:

thats not an of course, that makes absolutely no sense

[18:05:52]

wagnerrp:

its as if the computer is slowly heating up over that month period

[18:06:08]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[18:06:11]

Shadow__X:

stock cooling?

[18:06:15]

Shadow__X:

what speed stock and oced

[18:06:18]

wagnerrp:

computers cant accumulate instability, they just fail

[18:06:40]

Shadow__X:

no but electricity can accumulate

[18:06:45]

wagnerrp:

ninja tower, 2.2GHz (200) to 3GHz (267)

[18:06:50]

Shadow__X:

and when you oc more is being pushed through pipes

[18:06:56]

wagnerrp:

1:1 memory

[18:06:58]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[18:07:01]

Shadow__X:

what board

[18:07:10]

Shadow__X:

and what does it idle oc'ed

[18:07:11]

Shadow__X:

in F

[18:07:12]

wagnerrp:

MSI SLI P35

[18:08:54]

wagnerrp:

seems to be running hot at the moment, 42C stock

[18:09:02]

wagnerrp:

its usually in the mid 30s

[18:09:10]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[18:09:13]

wagnerrp:

high 30s idle when oc's

[18:09:13]

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[18:09:43]

Shadow__X:

wagnerrp, thats not really hot

[18:09:44]

Shadow__X:

but

[18:09:45]

wagnerrp:

oh, im not idle, im at 50% load

[18:10:00]

Shadow__X:

how is your northbridge

[18:10:11]

Shadow__X:

and does superpi or prime95 fail

[18:10:21]

Shadow__X:

have you torture tested it

[18:10:27]

wagnerrp:

i cannot force it to crash

[18:10:34]

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[18:10:41]

wagnerrp:

it crashes on its own, regardless of what im doing

[18:10:41]

Shadow__X:

i have had math processor issues

[18:10:45]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[18:10:46]

Shadow__X:

ok

[18:10:50]

Shadow__X:

but did you prime95 it

[18:10:52]

wagnerrp:

actually, its the memory subsystem that fails

[18:10:54]

Shadow__X:

have you tried those

[18:11:09]

wagnerrp:

i did months ago, nothing recently

[18:11:10]

Shadow__X:

check your northbridge temps

[18:11:21]

Shadow__X:

and oc's can degrade over time and cause issues

[18:11:28]

Shadow__X:

depends on your setup and all that

[18:11:34]

wagnerrp:

well ive got two others listed besides the CPU, but i dont know what is what

[18:11:41]

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[18:11:42]

Shadow__X:

hmm

[18:11:47]

Shadow__X:

brb

[18:11:51]

wagnerrp:

43 and 47

[18:11:53]

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[18:11:59]

wagnerrp:

cpu is idling at 37 now

[18:13:33]

joomla_user:

NOOP

[18:13:57]

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[18:14:46]

wagnerrp:

i should just go to water and be done with it

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[18:24:00]

justinh:

oh arse. the google movies grabber is broken again

[18:24:47]

wagnerrp:

google grabber, instead of imdb?

[18:25:49]

justinh:

nope

[18:28:04]

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[18:43:19]

justinh:

hrm... I just love fixing page scrapers :-\

[18:45:07]

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[18:45:26]

clever:

all the scrapers ive made stay working for months->years

[18:45:28]

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[18:45:48]

clever:

the only thing that has changed is the auti bot protections, which have just gotten easyer and easyer to break:P

[18:46:07]

justinh:

any scraper would work for aeons if the page never changed, smartass

[18:46:29]

clever:

its a dynamic cgi based page:P

[18:46:35]

clever:

but the code has allmost never changed

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[18:50:53]

justinh:

yay found a working one attached to a ticket

[18:53:10]

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[18:56:39]

justinh:

arghh. working, apart from the differences in perl libs which make it non-worky on my newer frontend

[18:56:55]

clever:

yay

[18:58:02]

justinh:

hrm how would one clear the transparent cache I wonder?

[18:58:03]

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[19:00:30]

i3ooi3oo:

w00t get to build a new mythbox today

[19:01:01]

i3ooi3oo:

guess i should start getting a distro

[19:01:12]

justinh:

when I run googlemovies.pl on the commandline it works fine but in mythfrontend it's not displaying show times & ratings :(

[19:04:18]

i3ooi3oo:

will myth take advantage of multi- core system ?

[19:04:47]

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[19:04:48]

justinh:

yes & no

[19:05:03]

i3ooi3oo:

ok & damn

[19:05:31]

justinh:

playback of sliced mpeg recordings can be multithreaded

[19:05:57]

i3ooi3oo:

is that it ?

[19:06:12]

justinh:

that & user jobs/transcoding jobs

[19:06:17]

kothog:

myth can actually do multi-threaded playback?

[19:06:26]

GreyFoxx:

h264 only

[19:06:35]

kothog:

huh.. cool.

[19:06:39]

GreyFoxx:

sliced, h264 encodings can be played back using multiple threads

[19:06:55]

GreyFoxx:

but the curren SoC working being done in ffmpeg will enable multithreading for more codecs

[19:07:12]

i3ooi3oo:

building a core2quad with mce 150 and hd1800 2x750GB drives

[19:07:13]

kothog:

good. kind of needed the way cpus are going.

[19:07:30]

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[19:07:41]

justinh:

quad core just for SDTV? talk about futureproof!

[19:08:08]

i3ooi3oo:

should have astc hd too

[19:08:34]

i3ooi3oo:

but all encoding is on the cards

[19:08:43]

GreyFoxx:

nope

[19:08:44]

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[19:08:50]

i3ooi3oo:

no ?

[19:08:52]

GreyFoxx:

the atsc cards do no encoding at all

[19:08:56]

i3ooi3oo:

OIC

[19:08:57]

GreyFoxx:

it's broadcast that way

[19:09:04]

i3ooi3oo:

duh

[19:09:09]

GreyFoxx:

dvb/atsc cards just read the stream and feed it to the app

[19:09:29]

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[19:09:37]

i3ooi3oo:

well it will have some other functions too...

[19:13:21]

justinh:

bah to hell with it

[19:13:41]

i3ooi3oo:

ok i see the card i was think about has astc tunner and analog w/ mpeg2 encoder

[19:14:48]

i3ooi3oo:

justinh: and yes I am futureprrofing a little... just got a good deal on the c2q

[19:17:55]

GreyFoxx:

Wow, I'm suprised the usability thread didn't spin into a bigger, snippier thread :)

[19:18:00]

GreyFoxx:

must be people on vacation :)

[19:19:19]

andreax:

Hm. Last week my bros got a remote control and mythtv on my tv. He was able to use mythtv without any explanations (except keybindings). So I can't understand this thread... :)

[19:20:09]

GreyFoxx:

literally, my 78 year old grandmother uses trunk, so surely most people can :)

[19:20:15]

andreax:

rofl

[19:20:20]

i3ooi3oo:

lol

[19:20:40]

i3ooi3oo:

anything gained from running 64bit os ?

[19:22:20]

laga:

GreyFoxx: current trunk?

[19:22:46]

GreyFoxx:

laga: Yup

[19:23:08]

GreyFoxx:

2 pvr 150's, on a slackware box, running trunk from like 2 weeks ago

[19:23:10]

GreyFoxx:

mce remote

[19:23:15]

GreyFoxx:

and an nvidia video card

[19:23:24]

GreyFoxx:

so basically, all the safest choices I could make :)

[19:24:17]

GreyFoxx:

I use trunk on her machine as a test point, if she runs into problems that I don't she lets me know, which is basically never

[19:24:50]

andreax:

Hitech-Grandma... I guess she's riding a bike? :)

[19:24:53]

laga:

nice

[19:25:04]

GreyFoxx:

Andr: Her PC has been a Slackware linux box since '99 :)

[19:25:13]

GreyFoxx:

I install and maintain it, she just uses the apps

[19:25:26]

laga:

yay, three days left till anixe hd! 1080i h.264 goodness

[19:25:39]

GreyFoxx:

she never understood everyones complaints about crashing windows because it never happens on hers :)

[19:25:52]

GreyFoxx:

she didn't understand she wasn't using the same thing as they were :)

[19:26:03]

GreyFoxx:

laga: Time for a HDTV ?:)

[19:26:43]

laga:

GreyFoxx: well, they show really hot stuff like 'happy days'.

[19:26:54]

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[19:27:12]

laga:

and the olympics. i guess i'll be watching some sports then on my 22" flat screen ;)

[19:27:41]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[19:29:55]

laga:

i hope i won't need the coreavc patches. maybe with some overclocking I'll be ok

[19:33:28]

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[19:36:15]

wagnerrp:

id like to think a c2q could handle any (properly encoded) h264 thrown at it

[19:36:23]

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[19:36:30]

Dagmar:

lol

[19:36:52]

Saviq:

hi guys, any idea why updating my backend would render my frontend unable to seek in recorded media?

[19:37:05]

GreyFoxx:

did you also update the frontend ?

[19:37:07]

wagnerrp:

did you update your frontend as well?

[19:37:14]

GreyFoxx:

You cannot mix versions

[19:37:37]

dustybin:

is there still a constant stream of 'ground breaking' technology in the HD TV world, or has the technology settled down a bit?

[19:37:40]

wagnerrp:

usually it would list a different protocol version, and just outright refuse to work

[19:37:58]

Saviq:

it's an update 'inside' 0.21

[19:38:04]

Saviq:

some revisions moved, though

[19:38:36]

wagnerrp:

chances are the revisions on your respective package manager are the same for the frontend and backend

[19:39:01]

wagnerrp:

no settings should be affected by a frontend upgrade

[19:39:02]

Saviq:

yes that's true, but as it's playing fine but not seeking, regardless of whether it's read from nfs or streamed from the backend..

[19:39:16]

Saviq:

I thought that it shouldn't matter...

[19:39:25]

Dagmar:

You cannot max versions.

[19:39:26]

wagnerrp:

correct, something probably changed in the protocol, rendering that non-functional

[19:39:27]

Saviq:

well, upgrading myth, then

[19:39:29]

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[19:39:29]

Dagmar:

s/max/mix/;

[19:41:18]

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[19:41:20]

Saviq:

that will take some hours on a gentoo machine :/

[19:41:29]

wagnerrp:

what power is the machine?

[19:41:42]

Saviq:

don't ask ;)

[19:41:49]

wagnerrp:

do you have any more powerful gentoo machines available?

[19:41:58]

Saviq:

yeah I'm distcc'ing

[19:42:47]

wagnerrp:

are these two physically separate boxes?

[19:42:56]

wagnerrp:

because gentoo does the frontend and backend in one shot

[19:42:56]

Saviq:

yes

[19:44:28]

wagnerrp:

well serves you right to run gentoo on an old machine... :P

[19:45:10]

wagnerrp:

ive got an old P3 laptop, and it usually takes days to do a full update if it is doing the compiling

[19:45:18]

dustybin:

why doesnt mythtv work on xen domu? doesnt domu have all the resources available as a normal box would?

[19:45:23]

dustybin:

(backend)

[19:45:38]

Saviq:

wagnerrp: yeah but it made it possible to _just_ play all my tv channels

[19:46:10]

Saviq:

while other distros didn't manage to play some that had, for example, ac3 streams and high bitrate video

[19:46:56]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: i assume this backend is only to be used for transcoding/commercials/management?

[19:47:08]

dustybin:

yep

[19:47:14]

wagnerrp:

i dont see why it wouldnt work

[19:47:15]

dustybin:

and recording off my tv card

[19:47:22]

wagnerrp:

that wouldnt work

[19:47:27]

dustybin:

why not?

[19:47:32]

wagnerrp:

well, i dont know

[19:47:48]

wagnerrp:

"it is an unprivileged domain with (by default) no access to the hardware"

[19:47:51]

kothog:

don't you have to allocate the pci device to the domu?

[19:48:01]

wagnerrp:

i imagine it would take some effort to get the tv card working

[19:48:08]

wagnerrp:

but the backend itself should run without issue

[19:48:26]

wagnerrp:

what is it complaining about

[19:48:36]

dustybin:

i thought there are 2 types of xen, the main user who has access to all resources and the guests

[19:48:46]

dustybin:

maybe im wrong

[19:49:02]

Saviq:

dustybin: dom0 is the host, domU are the guests

[19:49:10]

dustybin:

right ok

[19:49:19]

kothog:

i thought things like video cards needed to be deliberately allocated to either the dom0 or the domU. sharing a PCI device I thought wasn't possible.

[19:49:21]

wagnerrp:

xen appears to be the same concept as a freebsd jail

[19:49:33]

dustybin:

would mythbackend run on dom0 and record from my tv card?

[19:49:34]

wagnerrp:

ive got a (cardless) backend running in a hail

[19:49:36]

wagnerrp:

*jail

[19:49:36]

Saviq:

and as Xen uses paravirtualization, you'd need to have paravirtualized drivers to access the pci card

[19:49:49]

Saviq:

dustybin: it should work fine in dom0

[19:49:59]

dustybin:

hmm

[19:50:02]

clever:

wagnerrp: ive got a cardless slace backend in my colinux, and currently it CANT alocate pci devices to the linux side

[19:50:10]

clever:

and sharing would never be posible

[19:50:22]

dustybin:

Saviq: ideally id like to run all my private stuff on dom0 and public stuff on domu in a DMZ

[19:50:33]

wagnerrp:

right, ive never attempted to, and had no intention to access the cards either

[19:50:45]

wagnerrp:

dustybin: thats what i do

[19:50:49]

wagnerrp:

(except in jails)

[19:50:54]

Saviq:

dustybin: should be possible

[19:51:05]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: the backend works on dom0????

[19:51:12]

dustybin:

with tv card connected etc

[19:51:17]

wagnerrp:

no, the backend works in a jail, without a tv card

[19:51:23]

dustybin:

oh

[19:51:24]

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[19:51:48]

dustybin:

if i want to run my own world accessable website, i have 2 choices, 1) use another box in a DMZ, 2) use VM

[19:51:49]

wagnerrp:

freebsd doesnt have much support for tv cards anyway, so trying to connect them would be futile

[19:52:03]

wagnerrp:

however i can push through hardware into a jail

[19:52:14]

wagnerrp:

i have asterisk running in a jail, with an X100 modem

[19:52:25]

dustybin:

jails are easy to break out of

[19:52:42]

wagnerrp:

this is a jail, not a chroot

[19:52:57]

wagnerrp:

effectively the same thing as a domU in xen

[19:53:10]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: is this a freebsd thing

[19:53:14]

wagnerrp:

correct

[19:53:17]

dustybin:

ok

[19:53:33]

dustybin:

i usually just end up bribing the guards to break out of jail

[19:53:44]

wagnerrp:

it runs off the same kernel, but in a protected memory space (in addition to the traditional chroot file space)

[19:53:56]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: your security is flawed

[19:54:17]

kothog:

http://www.novell.com/communities/node/2880/a . . . tual-machine

[19:54:39]

dustybin:

hmm

[19:54:45]

wagnerrp:

if you know better than the freebsd devs, let them know

[19:55:02]

kothog:

dustybin: de Raadt seems to think paravirtualisation shouldn't be relied on for security purposes.

[19:55:25]

wagnerrp:

da Raadt is openbsd

[19:55:35]

dustybin:

hmm

[19:55:36]

kothog:

wagnerrp: :-) I know.

[19:56:09]

kothog:

i was responding to the commend re: the choice for the world-accessible website stuff..

[19:56:32]

dustybin:

really i should just buy some webspace like normal people do

[19:56:44]

dustybin:

but thats boring

[19:56:53]

wagnerrp:

ah, i really only use it for separation/management purposes than anything else

[19:56:58]

kothog:

dustybin: there used to be some great $99/mo deals on flat-rate bandwidth about 6 months ago (last I checked)

[19:57:42]

wagnerrp:

i used to run some dozen servers on one file system, and the dependency trees just got too out of whack for anything to work properly

[19:57:57]

wagnerrp:

so i flushed everything, and rebuilt them separated

[19:58:04]

dustybin:

[MODEM] — [PFSENSE/FIREWALL]---DMZ[FREEBSD/WEBSERVER/MAILSERVER]-----[PRIVATE HOME SERVER]

[19:58:42]

wagnerrp:

your dmz sits in between your private stuff and your firewall?

[19:58:49]

dustybin:

public stuff really should be split from your private shit

[19:59:01]

dustybin:

the DMZ would sit before the public box

[19:59:07]

dustybin:

the private box is just on my LAN

[19:59:19]

Dagmar:

Wrong answer.

[19:59:20]

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[19:59:24]

Dagmar:

The DMZ doesn't go between anything.

[19:59:34]

Dagmar:

The DMZ is off to one side, isolated to itself.

[19:59:38]

dustybin:

ill use pfsense to assign the DMZ

[19:59:48]

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[20:00:31]

wagnerrp:

a dmz isnt really worthwhile unless its physically on another network

[20:00:32]

Dagmar:

The DMZ is not an area packets pass _through_ unless they are destined for, or coming from the DMZ.

[20:00:36]

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[20:00:46]

wagnerrp:

otherwise they can just alias onto the primary network, and have full access

[20:00:59]

Dagmar:

Pretty much

[20:01:25]

Dagmar:

A DMZ is a place machines go when they need to be accessed from both the internet, _and_ your internal resources.

[20:01:46]

Dagmar:

You build a third physical leg on the firewall, and that's there the DMZ lives.

[20:01:53]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: my pfsense box will have 3 NICS, 1 for incoming modem, the other 2 can be assigned 2 different networks

[20:02:05]

Dagmar:

This way, your DMZ machines are firewalled to protect them from the internet, and _you_ are firewalled to protect you from _them_

[20:02:16]

wagnerrp:

that works, but you cant just 'assign' it in software

[20:02:53]

clever:

wagnerrp: i have a cisco switch which can move the ports between virtual lans

[20:03:06]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: i can setup the firewall rules for both NICs in pfsense

[20:03:27]

wagnerrp:

port based vlans set up separate physical networks

[20:03:36]

clever:

so i can connect my router to 2 ports for both the private and dmz_lan

[20:03:43]

Dagmar:

clever: Don't confuse the newbiew

[20:03:44]

wagnerrp:

but you have to have it on a different port

[20:04:20]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: my diagram is wrong, my public server will be connected to 1 NIC on the firewall, my private server on the other NIC

[20:04:26]

wagnerrp:

correct

[20:04:52]

dustybin:

ideally id like to use just 1 server, and maybe use xen instead of 2 boxes

[20:05:02]

dustybin:

but i dont think mythtv backend likes dom0

[20:05:23]

clever:

my wifi keeps cutting out causing horid lag in my line editing

[20:05:25]

wagnerrp:

dom0 is just the host, it should have no problem working

[20:05:49]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: google doesnt show much

[20:05:51]

clever:

wagnerrp: also i allready have 2 NIC's from my router<->switch

[20:06:04]

clever:

but im currently using the 2nd for the pppoe trafic

[20:06:21]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: i could use dom0 the host for all my private services, and domu for a public accessable web server

[20:06:30]

dustybin:

instead of 2 boxes

[20:06:47]

wagnerrp:

i mean mythtv should have no problem in dom0

[20:07:08]

dustybin:

if its the host, nothing at all should have any problems

[20:07:18]

wagnerrp:

however connecting a domu to the dmz network would necessitate connecting dom0 to the dmz network

[20:07:44]

dustybin:

well my 2 servers would need some kind of connection

[20:07:49]

dustybin:

but i could use nice firewall rules

[20:08:37]

dustybin:

really anything with ports facing to the world should be DMZ'd

[20:09:12]

dustybin:

all your private stuff, like mythbackend, zoneminder, NFS/SAMBA, VOIP, should be totally seperate

[20:09:28]

wagnerrp:

but as mentioned before, a DMZ requires a physical separation

[20:09:34]

dustybin:

eek

[20:09:46]

** dustybin looks at the PIII 733 on the floor **

[20:09:48]

Dagmar:

Basically, the idea is that anything someone could potentially compromise shouldn't be able to be used to get to your *other* internal resources.

[20:09:50]

wagnerrp:

sticking them on the same machine, even with virtualization, just doesnt work

[20:10:02]

dustybin:

ok

[20:10:10]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: I've say VLANs work fine, but that's just me

[20:10:16]

Dagmar:

I wouldn't VM them tho

[20:10:27]

wagnerrp:

maybe vmware esx would be able to pull off something like that, where the network card is dedicated specifically to that VM

[20:10:32]

Dagmar:

Actually, separate NICs and one box with some VMs on it should be fine

[20:10:39]

Dagmar:

...but that's just too much damn trouble

[20:10:48]

dustybin:

logically speaking, your wifi would have some kind of security too, maybe a VPN ?

[20:11:08]

Dagmar:

dustybin: I have a two-fisted security policy on my wireless at home

[20:11:15]

dustybin:

Dagmar: tell us

[20:11:22]

Dagmar:

One the one hand, I have WEP.

[20:11:32]

dustybin:

ok

[20:11:39]

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[20:11:41]

dustybin:

WEP can be cracked in less than a hour?

[20:11:51]

wagnerrp:

wep can be cracked in less than 5 minutes

[20:11:56]

dustybin:

:-o

[20:12:00]

Dagmar:

On the other hand, if you don't think to forge my MAC addresses, let's just say that what you'll get from dhcpd and squid can best be summed up as "All Your Internets Are Belong To Tubgirl"

[20:12:10]

Dagmar:

I also audit.

[20:12:16]

dustybin:

hmmm

[20:12:24]

Dagmar:

Basically, my main goal is to cause people pain.

[20:12:32]

wagnerrp:

ive considered doing something like that

[20:12:42]

dustybin:

how about once your connected to your WIFI, you must first log into a VPN server to access your LAN?

[20:12:50]

Dagmar:

I could make the wireless require OpenVPN or FreeS/WAN to go out

[20:12:53]

Dagmar:

I used to do that

[20:13:06]

Dagmar:

I've only seen one person even try to crack my WEP tho.

[20:13:14]

Dagmar:

A neighborhood kid I'm now friends with.

[20:13:19]

dustybin:

Dagmar: why not use WPA?

[20:13:32]

Dagmar:

dustybin: Perhaps you have overlooked my goal.

[20:13:36]

wagnerrp:

no one around my house knows how to use a computer, much less crack WEP

[20:13:41]

Dagmar:

"<Dagmar> Basically, my main goal is to cause people pain."

[20:13:53]

dustybin:

lol

[20:13:54]

Dagmar:

I also have a few handhelds that won't do WPA

[20:13:57]

wagnerrp:

provide relatively easy access to the fecal internet

[20:14:04]

dustybin:

Dagmar: is justinh your brother by any chance? :P

[20:14:11]

wagnerrp:

my DS wont do WPA

[20:14:21]

Dagmar:

Statutes aside, it took me almost fifteen minutes to stop laughing after that kid cracked my WEP kit.

[20:14:26]

wagnerrp:

my mom's phone does it, but will only handle 15 characters or so

[20:14:39]

Dagmar:

I just *happened* to be coming back from teh store while this kid was sitting outside with his laptop

[20:14:57]

Dagmar:

He about fell over.

[20:15:13]

Dagmar:

I don't think he'd ever seen that before. lol

[20:15:27]

AndyCap:

so he's a fail open goat

[20:15:34]

Dagmar:

lol

[20:16:25]

wagnerrp:

i was actually thinking something more along the lines of the blurry internet

[20:16:44]

wagnerrp:

something completely baffling, and not immediately noticable

[20:17:33]

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[20:17:38]

wagnerrp:

or maybe push all text traffic through google translate

[20:17:56]

Dagmar:

But see, a *blurry* internet wouldnt' have had me rolling around on the ground in the parking lot at 10pm laughing my head off

[20:18:05]

wagnerrp:

so true

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[20:26:28]

justinh:

one day I'll remember wth regex is supposed to do. one fine day

[20:26:55]

dustybin:

should services like irssi and rtorrent be running on my public box or private box?

[20:28:33]

** dustybin thinks public **

[20:28:41]

** dustybin writes list **

[20:29:02]

wagnerrp:

irssi should be dmz'd as much as a web browser should

[20:29:22]

wagnerrp:

torrents need open ports, so they can go on public boxes

[20:32:32]

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[20:36:01]

dustybin:

this is how ill split my server up

[20:36:02]

dustybin:

http://rafb.net/p/CQrZXD94.html

[20:37:17]

wagnerrp:

why would you put an email client on a dmz

[20:37:29]

dustybin:

that is a email server

[20:37:37]

dustybin:

ohh mutt

[20:37:44]

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[20:37:55]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: ideally id like to ssh into my public box from work

[20:38:11]

dustybin:

then access irssi, mutt and tin

[20:38:24]

wagnerrp:

just ssh into your private box

[20:38:30]

dustybin:

ok

[20:38:49]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: irssi and rtorrent would still need to be running on the public box

[20:38:57]

wagnerrp:

if youre really concerned, you could change the port, at least requiring a port scan

[20:39:00]

Freman:

ssh -t -A <public box> ssh <private ip>

[20:39:12]

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[20:39:15]

wagnerrp:

maybe set up some script that detects brute force attacks, and auto-blocks the IP

[20:39:32]

dustybin:

fail2ban does that

[20:39:43]

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[20:40:07]

dustybin:

wagnerrp: i dont see the problem with ssh'ing into my public box

[20:40:33]

wagnerrp:

of course if youve got apache available, just run squirrelmail or something similar

[20:40:40]

dustybin:

yep

[20:42:10]

dustybin:

the only bit was is concerning is that my mail server will be on the public box, but if i secure it properly it should be ok

[20:42:30]

dustybin:

the mail server is public accessable and should be seperate from the rest of my network

[20:42:50]

wagnerrp:

so do a nightly backup to your private server

[20:43:00]

wagnerrp:

if need be, just flush and restart

[20:43:33]

dustybin:

all the open ports are on the public box, the only ports open on my private box will be on the LAN

[20:43:59]

wagnerrp:

so have your private box ssh in, tar, and copy back

[20:44:07]

dustybin:

aye ok

[20:44:52]

dustybin:

this is also a good excuse to start using freebsd ;-)

[20:44:56]

dustybin:

anyway, back top the topic

[20:45:11]

wagnerrp:

mythtv in xen?

[20:45:18]

dustybin:

forget that idea

[20:46:27]

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[20:46:33]

RogerM:

Hi.. Got a question. Is there any way to Add black borders left and right of the picture when viewing a 4:3 movie?

[20:47:07]

wagnerrp:

for... column boxing on a 16:9 tv?

[20:47:30]

wagnerrp:

is this for mythtv or mythvideo?

[20:47:35]

RogerM:

yup.. I personally hate the stretching when viewing 4:3 in 16:9 format.

[20:48:00]

wagnerrp:

mythtv, you can go into the on screen menu and set the aspect ratio

[20:48:13]

keith4:

and then "w" toggles viewing format

[20:48:15]

wagnerrp:

i believe theres a keyboard key for that, but i dont know what it is off hand

[20:48:35]

keith4:

between stretch, zoom, etc.

[20:48:44]

RogerM:

I just tried that and it didn't work as I thought it would.. But then I might have overlooked something when setting it up.

[20:48:46]

wagnerrp:

mythtv, that depends on mplayer, but i thought mplayer just uses the source aspect ratio

[20:49:20]

keith4:

consider adding the aspect ratio to your .mplayer file

[20:50:09]

RogerM:

I'm using Myths internal player.. I dont think Myth reads the .mplayer file.

[20:51:02]

keith4:

if you set your aspect ratio correctly in mythtv, it should give you the black bars on either side when viewing 4:3 content on a 16:9 screen

[20:51:15]

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[20:51:52]

RogerM:

back to the drawingboard then.. Does myth have an internal setting for this or does it rely on the DisplaySize in xorg.conf?

[20:54:56]

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[21:01:45]

wagnerrp:

there are internal settings for tv, i assume the internetl player in mythtvideo uses the same settings

[21:03:53]

justinh:

yup

[21:06:41]

Freman:

hmmm... well that's a little depressing, that patch isn't working for me

[21:06:44]

** Freman goes to fiddle **

[21:08:07]

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[21:14:13]

justinh:

I just don't get this. stupid, stupid perl!

[21:14:51]

AndyCap:

so it's perl that's stupid is it?

[21:15:23]

AndyCap:

blame the cunning linguist.

[21:15:42]

justinh:

works fine on one machine. works differently on another

[21:15:58]

justinh:

works fine on the commandline on the other machine too

[21:16:13]

wagnerrp:

i thought the whole purpose of scripting languages was that they were playform independent

[21:16:32]

AndyCap:

the abstraction will leak tho.

[21:16:48]

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[21:18:19]

justinh:

acting different on different distros with different perl package versions

[21:18:58]

justinh:

though if the script seems to be behaving on the frontend via a shell but isn't behaving when it gives data to mythmovies.. wtf?!

[21:19:18]

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[21:19:49]

AndyCap:

hehe, there are so many ways this can fail. :>

[21:22:37]

justinh:

is <Name>Mamma Mia!</Name> valid xml? I'm not sure

[21:23:58]

AndyCap:

depends what you mean by valid.

[21:25:00]

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[21:25:05]

AndyCap:

justinh: only thing I'm unsure of is the ! but I think that's ok

[21:25:52]

justinh:

yeah the ! is what made me unsure too

[21:26:34]

AndyCap:

nah, it's fine

[21:28:23]

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[21:31:24]

justinh:

aha! 2008-08–05 22:28:56.511 MSqlQuery: SELECT data FROM settings WHERE value = 'MythMovies.LastGrabDate' AND hostname = 'core2f

[21:31:44]

justinh:

so it runs maybe once a day I suppose

[21:32:07]

justinh:

so if the script changes... wah wahhhhhhhhhh

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[21:37:53]

Dagmar:

Okay. I think the sign I put up in the datacenter prep room is clear enough now

[21:39:08]

Dagmar:

"A MESSY WORKPLACE IS A HAZARDOUS WORKPLACE. MEANING 'ACCIDENTS' WILL HAPPEN TO PEOPLE WHO MAKE A MESS IN HERE"

[21:39:49]

Dagmar:

I am getting a wee bit testy about being chewed out over the state of a work area that basically, I go into about once a week, make a couple cables, and leave.

[21:40:19]

Dagmar:

...because you would think wild boars had been trying to make nests out of spare parts by what certain people in another department are doing.

[21:40:44]

justinh:

Dagmar: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/01/bofh_2008_episode_26/ :D

[21:40:59]

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[21:44:53]

RogerM:

is there a limit how small a theme can scale too? When I reach somewhere below in 450px height I menus stops to show up(pictures look right and settingscreens work. althoug small. :))

[21:46:03]

wagnerrp:

not really sure why you would want something smaller

[21:46:24]

Dagmar:

An abundance of heavy metals in the drinking water.

[21:46:42]

Dagmar:

Definitely no sane reason.

[21:47:24]

RogerM:

well.. I have a CRT with 720x576(PAL) resolution. In 4:3 I loose some to overscan. in 16:9 i loose even more to overscan.

[21:47:25]

wagnerrp:

i mean NTSC has 480 displayed lines, PAL has... 576?

[21:48:02]

wagnerrp:

so run the screen to PAL standards, and just shrink the video

[21:48:43]

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[21:49:09]

ajh:

Any quick way to do what mythweb does with direct download on the local filesystem? i.e. naming the file correctly.

[21:49:31]

wagnerrp:

theres a script on the wiki to do that

[21:49:37]

ajh:

Ah, ok thanks.

[21:49:43]

RogerM:

That's what I'm doing, except I will get see my 16:9 as letterboxed even though my TV-set can show it in 16:9 it it gets the right signal which myth can't send as I know.

[21:49:44]

wagnerrp:

it just makes human readable links to the files

[21:49:57]

ajh:

Any that'll export and delete the original properly?

[21:50:08]

wagnerrp:

no, it just makes links

[21:50:16]

ajh:

Basically I just want to migrate things over to mythvideo.

[21:50:48]

wagnerrp:

so modify the script to move and rename, instead of just link

[21:50:49]

Dagmar:

ajh: Basically, you have to do that manually.

[21:51:17]

ajh:

OK, thanks. Perhaps in January when I get a minute or two I'll try to get that working in the UI. :)

[21:51:28]

wagnerrp:

mythrename.pl

[21:51:42]

ajh:

I just want to be able to do things like the access controls and sort by my own criteria.

[21:52:20]

justinh:

RogerM: 720x576 with 5% overscan should be fine with most well designed themes

[21:53:15]

ajh:

Ah, that should do most of what I need, thanks.

[21:53:58]

ajh:

So that updates the database as well so myth can still find them?

[21:54:07]

ajh:

I know, I should read the source.

[21:54:22]

justinh:

mythrename.pl aka dicing with losing all your recordings

[21:54:39]

justinh:

for safest results use mythrename.pl --link /somedir

[21:54:45]

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[21:54:53]

ajh:

OK, thanks.

[21:55:11]

RogerM:

justinh: yes it does.. For 4:3 that is.. You know.. Black borders.. With the recorded 16:9 I get another set of borders. So I thought.. Why not always use 16:9 but that leads to more overscan.. So much that the menutext disapperas. :(

[21:55:47]

wagnerrp:

if you hardlink the files, will mythtv still destory them when you delete them from recordings?

[21:56:22]

wagnerrp:

there will still be a link in the file system, so the data should not get deleted right? (unless you have slow delete)

[21:56:23]

RogerM:

I could switch the TV-set to 16:9 when needed but why do it manually when it can be done automatically. I can say I'm using the TV-out on my PVR-350 but only for XV.

[21:56:34]

ajh:

I'd hope it symlinks then I can just copy them over using follow symlinks.

[21:56:49]

chuck-:

does anyone here use MythTV with Ubuntu? Im debating tossing my windows media center solution for a nice free/open source Ubuntu/MythTV solution..im looking for some opinions ..im mainly using it to playback HD .mkv files

[21:56:56]

ajh:

I'm doing the h.264 conversion elsewhere.

[21:57:01]

wagnerrp:

im saying if you hardlink to the same hard drive, there is no need to copy anything

[21:57:26]

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[21:57:35]

ajh:

Yeah, that would require my storage groups to go from RR to an LVM join.

[21:57:59]

Shadow__X:

chuck-, try the #ubuntu-mythtv room

[21:58:05]

wagnerrp:

ok, with multiple drives, thats not an option

[21:58:10]

ajh:

I really wish I had the time to setup an iSCSI store.

[21:58:14]

xris:

ajh: look in contrib for mythrename

[21:58:28]

ajh:

xris, yes we covered that thanks :)

[21:58:29]

Dagmar:

I'm going to try 2.6.26.1.

[21:58:31]

Dagmar:

Wish me luck.

[21:58:32]

chuck-:

Shadow__X: thanks

[21:58:33]

wagnerrp:

seems somewhat overkill

[21:58:35]

xris:

I'd recommend using it with the --link option to create symlinks rather than actually renaming the files. then just share the symlink directory with smb

[21:58:48]

wagnerrp:

im still back on 23 something...

[21:58:52]

wagnerrp:

i should probably upgrade

[21:58:59]

xris:

(sorry, he said wiki, I missed the mythrename bit later on)

[21:59:06]

wagnerrp:

my tuner card driver got included in the 24 kernel

[21:59:28]

** xris just likes to encourage use of his programs **

[21:59:42]

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[22:00:08]

ajh:

yeah, a ui option to move a particular recording to mythvideo would be nice. :)

[22:00:17]

justinh:

RogerM: I run 720x576 into my 16:9 TV without any problems

[22:00:27]

justinh:

my themes fit just fine

[22:00:27]

wagnerrp:

huh, i am running 2.6.24

[22:02:25]

dustybin:

justinh: have you thought about using freesat and changing your TV yet

[22:03:00]

justinh:

nope

[22:03:14]

dustybin:

maybe this time in 2 years

[22:03:16]

justinh:

HD is still overrated

[22:03:34]

wagnerrp:

well you dont like tv anyway

[22:04:36]

dustybin:

how long does it take for the human brain to forget how nice or bad the picture looks when you are actually watching a film and getting into it?

[22:05:05]

dustybin:

or does your brain think, wow this is HD constantly?

[22:05:06]

wagnerrp:

not long

[22:05:17]

wagnerrp:

not for me anyway

[22:05:18]

ajh:

audio is even less important.

[22:05:32]

ajh:

unless you're doing surround and the rear speakers are too loud.

[22:05:48]

dustybin:

its all over-rated

[22:06:02]

ajh:

then your primative brain keeps telling you there's something sneaking up on you from behind which causes you to look away from the screen :)

[22:06:07]

dustybin:

all you need is something that is reasonable to watch and something you can hear

[22:06:12]

dustybin:

lowres ftw

[22:06:37]

ajh:

I wouldn't go that far, but given how bad most content is...

[22:07:18]

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[22:07:42]

wagnerrp:

oh, but i can get Farmer Needs a Wife in HD!!!

[22:08:31]

AndyCap:

meh, you only need 1 bit! http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n08/doencas/drugs/videorat_i.htm

[22:08:45]

dustybin:

justinh: how long will it take for low res broadcasts to stop and for HD to take over on all channels 24.7

[22:08:53]

dustybin:

(in uk)

[22:09:22]

Dagmar:

Someone's going to have to define "HD" in a non-weaselly way, first.

[22:09:45]

gbee:

Freman: how is that patch working out?

[22:10:15]

justinh:

dustybin: remembering it took about 15 years for 405-line TV to be switched off...

[22:10:26]

gbee:

not less than 15–20 years

[22:10:32]

dustybin:

jesus hell

[22:10:54]

justinh:

give em a break they've just managed to get yay many people onto freeview

[22:11:01]

dustybin:

theres me thinking everything will be HD in a couple of years

[22:11:02]

gbee:

but I suspect it will be higher even

[22:11:08]

wagnerrp:

remember that US is not making a HD switch over, but rather a digital switch over

[22:11:21]

wagnerrp:

there are a lot of channels still in 480i

[22:11:23]

justinh:

imagine the furore if they turned around & said "nevermind chaps, better buy new boxes in 5 years"

[22:11:34]

gbee:

nah, not enough bandwidth even with the next gen protocols and codecs they are currently rolling out

[22:11:53]

ajh:

Most content is perfectly find in SD.

[22:11:57]

ajh:

er, fine

[22:12:03]

justinh:

wagnerrp: yeah but NTSC was so damn awful something had to be done ;)

[22:12:29]

AndyCap:

yes, it's called PAL.

[22:12:32]

ajh:

I'd really like to see no difference between HD and SD channels though, just let them send what they have and can buy trime for.

[22:12:37]

wagnerrp:

its still effectively NTSC video, just mpeg encoded

[22:12:45]

gbee:

you'll have HD equivalents of the major channels, BBC 1,2 ITV 1, C4 and Five – maybe a couple of others (on Satellite only)

[22:12:49]

Dagmar:

Actually it's not.

[22:12:57]

Dagmar:

That's kind of insane to even say.

[22:12:57]

justinh:

dagmar's right

[22:13:07]

dustybin:

gbee: will there be lowres and HD equivalents?

[22:13:07]

ajh:

Isn't the MPEG colour space different?

[22:13:13]

wagnerrp:

its the NTSC analog feed, encoded

[22:13:22]

ajh:

Not always.

[22:13:26]

Dagmar:

Not that simple, man.

[22:13:40]

Dagmar:

For one thing, it's entirely digital, so there's no more colorspace issues.

[22:13:46]

ajh:

The main problem with NTSC... what he said.

[22:13:50]

Dagmar:

No more having to shift everything a certain number if IRE.

[22:13:51]

gbee:

I have to say that having just watched Lost Land of the Jaguar in HD – there are definately places that HD makes a difference

[22:14:15]

ajh:

HD allows them to do focus panning and front/background stuff you just can't do in SD.

[22:14:19]

** AndyCap seems to remember that there are lots of colorspace issues with digital. **

[22:14:22]

dustybin:

gbee: once the novelty wears off it will be just like having normal PAL

[22:14:32]

justinh:

I'd love to be able to say it'll be less blocky on HD, but it won't

[22:14:36]

Dagmar:

ajh: "Pan & Scan"? No thanks.

[22:14:52]

gbee:

but I can't really see why I'd want to watch the olympics in HD ... maybe the opening/closing ceremonies and women's volley ball..

[22:14:52]

ajh:

Dagmar, heh no I mean in the videography.

[22:14:56]

Dagmar:

...and I've no idea what this "front/background" stuff you speak of is

[22:14:58]

ajh:

Watch how in CSI they shift focus.

[22:15:04]

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[22:15:04]

dustybin:

HD is just a waste of bandwidth and disk space

[22:15:11]

wagnerrp:

ok, so its just NTSC resolutions, but doesnt have any of the broadcast signal issues, instead it has mpeg blocking artifacts

[22:15:22]

kothog:

AndyCap: there are. compression artifacts of lots of cable channels destroy the NTSC signal. i doubt some of them ever get a pure black anymore.

[22:15:25]

gbee:

dustybin: sure, once it wears off – but that doesn't mean that once it has worn off that we aren't still left with a better product

[22:15:27]

ajh:

You see it in HD, in SD it's more a prime focus and doesn't have the same visual queue effects.

[22:15:28]

justinh:

yay I fixed the movietimes scripticle!

[22:15:46]

justinh:

frontend wasn't updating cos it'd already been run today. sneaky bugger

[22:15:49]

Dagmar:

Okay, I think there you've been listening to the salespeople a little bit too much

[22:16:23]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: Again, no. MPEG blocking artifacts are just what you get when the people doing the encoding are too cheap to allocate enough bandwidth.

[22:16:25]

dustybin:

im gonna stick with lowres

[22:16:33]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: PAL can be fucked up that way just as easily.

[22:16:44]

ajh:

Where HD matters is sports.

[22:16:55]

AndyCap:

ajh: but where does sports matter?

[22:16:58]

ajh:

Hockey in HD vs SD....

[22:17:03]

ajh:

Canada. :)

[22:17:04]

Dagmar:

Dpeends on what you call a sport

[22:17:23]

gbee:

there are hundreds of things where I really couldn't care if it's HD or SD, I'm just not going to appreciate the difference while watching it – but nature/gardening/travel documentaries in HD make it worthwhile

[22:17:27]

AndyCap:

sure, whitewater slalom is interesting.

[22:17:29]

Dagmar:

Personally, I'm a big fan of intramural mattress wrestling

[22:17:37]

ajh:

Well, also when you're blowing it up to 6 feet across it kinda helps.

[22:17:50]

AndyCap:

the mattress?

[22:18:42]

justinh:

maitresse ? ;)

[22:18:55]

gbee:

ajh: I'd disagree, maybe because I'm not a huge fan of sports, but probably more because I don't really need or care to see every detail of the players uniform, in most sport you only care about where the ball is

[22:18:57]

wagnerrp:

ive heard the intramural matress wrestling industry does not like HD

[22:19:08]

wagnerrp:

it costs too much to make their contestants attractive

[22:19:13]

ajh:

argh, annoying the ubuntu packager doesn't include contrib.

[22:19:34]

justinh:

well, took 1.5 hours to fix one poxy line of script. bah!

[22:19:34]

gbee:

watched football in HD and afterwards I couldn't really say I noticed a difference

[22:19:39]

ajh:

gbee, you don't need 1080p but hockey in 720p is finally interesting.

[22:19:41]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: I think that's a matter of Sony severely snubbed them at the outset of Blu-Ray

[22:19:47]

justinh:

gbee: Sky's HD is all shite ;)

[22:19:58]

ajh:

If football was any slower it'd be golf.

[22:19:58]

Dagmar:

Everyone knows "porn makes new technology profitable".

[22:20:03]

** justinh goes to bed **

[22:20:04]

Saviq:

hockey? interesting? yeah, right..

[22:20:08]

gbee:

justinh: agreed, though this was BBC HD

[22:20:31]

Dagmar:

...but Sony didn't want Blu-Ray to "be known as a medium for porn" so they limited the number of discs that the adult entertainment companies could press

[22:20:36]

Dagmar:

Now...

[22:20:37]

gbee:

ajh: rather be playing a game than watching

[22:20:43]

Dagmar:

What's rather obvious about that situation?

[22:20:55]

ajh:

gbee, any day, I only ever watch during playoffs and it's social more than anything.

[22:21:02]

wagnerrp:

you would think they had learned their lesson after losing out to VHS

[22:21:05]

Dagmar:

Sony's monopoly basically engaged in censorship, without anyone getting into trouble for it.

[22:21:14]

wagnerrp:

although they seem to have done something right this time

[22:21:20]

ajh:

Porn is medialess now anyway.

[22:21:27]

kothog:

their right to refuse service to anyone..

[22:21:31]

Dagmar:

"Monopoly" and "Censorship" are two words we're going to be seeing a lot of now that the DMCA has allowed both

[22:21:35]

AndyCap:

I guess we won't be seeing Electric Blu then

[22:21:49]

Dagmar:

kothog: Not when they're the only outlet for it.

[22:22:01]

Dagmar:

One lawsuit would bring "official" attention to that

[22:22:08]

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[22:22:21]

kothog:

Dagmar: sure; who are we to force them to sell to anyone?

[22:22:27]

ajh:

So would Regime change.

[22:22:39]

Dagmar:

kothog: Again, when they're the _only_ outlet for it

[22:23:20]

kothog:

Dagmar: yes, but who cares? the format doesn't get accepted, and will either sink or swim on the remaining merits. if some guy without a shirt or shoes walks into my store, I'm kicking his ass to the curb.

[22:23:23]

gbee:

didn't I read that HD has proved to be a problem for the porn industry because you can actually see that most of the 'actresses' are all ugly and caked in makeup an inch deep?

[22:23:26]

Dagmar:

Instead of just repeating yourself and hoping I'll magically disregard all the case law and historical precedents, how about you do some research into the matter?

[22:23:27]

wagnerrp:

they own the patents, so they just revoke the stamping rights for anyone who distributes porn

[22:23:45]

AndyCap:

gbee: not just the pr0n industry that has that problem

[22:23:56]

ajh:

gbee, more that they actually have to spend money on production quality.

[22:24:08]

ajh:

You really see a poorly done job that much clearer.

[22:24:19]

ajh:

Which of course includes the above done poorly.

[22:24:21]

Dagmar:

'cept HD video cameras are pretty easy to come by

[22:24:39]

kothog:

gbee: yea, it's kind of scary. only a few very specific models end up looking like knockouts still, and the angles are all screwed up anyway. lol

[22:24:48]

ajh:

The camera isn't the end of the chain, most of the 'quality' is in the source and in the post.

[22:24:57]

Dagmar:

They're not in the $300 range or anything yet, but they're definitely not unacceptably priced, even for a cheap studio

[22:25:23]

ajh:

Good makeup artists, sound engineers, directors with a clue, all those things matter a whole lot more.

[22:25:26]

Dagmar:

ajh: Umm... nothing makes up for a bad camera or screwed up lightinh

[22:25:30]

Freman:

gbee: it didn't work, I've just re-compiled with a couple of debug prints to make sure the setting is set

[22:25:35]

wagnerrp:

well anything decent is still in the $10K+ range

[22:25:36]

Dagmar:

...and it's porno.

[22:25:47]

Dagmar:

All that other stuff you're talking about doesn't mean a whole lot.

[22:25:57]

gbee:

Freman: ok, I'll debug it here, I might have missed something

[22:26:03]

ajh:

dag, true of course, but I'm just saying getting that right is just the beginning and with SD you could skip more of the rest and still have something.

[22:26:35]

Freman:

mythfrontend -v for more verbosity yeh?

[22:27:04]

Saviq:

Freman: '-v help' for help

[22:27:07]

gbee:

mythfrontend -v help

[22:27:14]

Dagmar:

That "caked on makeup" issue is just a red herring people try to float.

[22:27:22]

Dagmar:

The same pretty much applies to all actresses.

[22:27:37]

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[22:28:21]

AndyCap:

you think? http://www.strangecelebrities.com/content/item/1688.html

[22:29:23]

wagnerrp:

yeah, well shes also a floating head there

[22:29:29]

RogerM:

justinh: ok.. my 5% values that looks ok om 4:3 is 660x535.. Now when I set my TV-set on 16:9 I loose a big chunk of both the top and bottom(I have a philips TV-set). If I use the setting that my DVD-player set called Widescreen it looks ok but I know no way of making ivtv set that mode.

[22:30:01]

kothog:

Uh.. right. I'll just whip out a lexis-nexis search string right now and see what applies to Sony refusing to allow the adult industry to be a major consumer of its goods..

[22:30:15]

ajh:

OK, this script sure beats doing it by hand :)

[22:30:24]

Dagmar:

kothog: You have fun witht hat

[22:30:27]

kothog:

Monopolistic practices apply when Sony squeezes out a competing format, not when they refuse to sell an otherwise unnecessary product.

[22:30:27]

Freman:

I basically added VERBOSE(VB_IMPORTANT,QString("StartPlayer(): m_dvdMode setting %1").arg(m_dvdMode)); to if (prbuffer->isDVD())

[22:30:38]

Dagmar:

kothog: Believe what you like

[22:30:49]

kothog:

Dagmar: I'm not the one citing invisible case law and precedent.

[22:31:01]

Dagmar:

kothog: Not "invisible". You just don't know what you're talking about.

[22:31:10]

ajh:

kothog, winning by having the best product is fine, it is how you go about it.

[22:31:13]

Freman:

2008-08–06 08:31:00.996 StartPlayer(): m_dvdMode setting 0

[22:31:16]

ajh:

and even that is fine under Bush.

[22:31:20]

Freman:

I know I set it to 1 :)

[22:31:21]

kothog:

Dagmar: Uh huh. You keep telling yourself that.

[22:31:39]

Dagmar:

kothog: I will. I've been paying attention to new media issues since, oh, VHS.

[22:31:44]

wagnerrp:

kothog: walmart effectively censors video games by not allowing certain games on the shelves

[22:31:49]

Dagmar:

There's case precedent for this relating to VHS

[22:32:02]

wagnerrp:

distributors then listen to what walmart is willing to sell, rather than what the consumer wants to buy

[22:32:07]

ajh:

It all depends on the position of the company doing it.

[22:32:12]

wagnerrp:

is that not monopolistic?

[22:32:17]

kothog:

Which ones?

[22:32:24]

ajh:

Nope, because walmart is not the only option, far from it.

[22:32:28]

Dagmar:

Once a company creates a monopoly condition, they run into the problem of being required to not make judgements about the media

[22:32:29]

wagnerrp:

basically anything thats too voilent

[22:32:47]

ajh:

Really? I thought it was sex that was taboo in the US>

[22:33:01]

Dagmar:

ajh: There's not much of anything that's taboo in the US actually.

[22:33:02]

ajh:

It's ok to show someone's head exploding, as long as they're wearing a shirt or at least a bra.

[22:33:05]

kothog:

Dagmar: and saying you've been around since VHS doesn't fly unless you're talking to punk 24-yr-olds. Which I am not.

[22:33:15]

Dagmar:

It's just graphic sex isn't supposed to be _easy_ to access

[22:33:30]

Dagmar:

kothog: That's not what I said

[22:33:36]

Dagmar:

And welcome to the ignore list again, dipshit

[22:33:41]

kothog:

Dagmar: idiot.

[22:33:47]

AndyCap:

then somebody should be stopping teh internets.

[22:33:55]

Dagmar:

No one's stopping the internets.

[22:34:04]

Dagmar:

Thank god the FCC at least stomped on that

[22:34:13]

Freman:

I think maybe I found it gbee

[22:34:19]

Freman:

without understanding much of this

[22:34:51]

Freman:

There's no apparent storage of DVDPlaybackMode

[22:35:42]

Freman:

should HostComboBox *gc = new HostComboBox("DVDPlayMode"); be HostComboBox *gc = new HostComboBox("DVDPlaybackMode"); ?

[22:36:06]

** Freman only asks cos it takes forever to recompile on this poor machine :) **

[22:36:24]

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[22:36:26]

kothog:

wagnerrp: If there was no such thing as DVD, nor VHS, nor.. well any alternative, then it might be considered a monopoly. But since there are (granted, lesser-quality) alternatives, it's not a monopoly, and it's the same thing as refusing service to someone. They're not refusing service to blacks, women, or Jews. They're refusing service to the adult industry.

[22:37:17]

gbee:

Freman: my mistake, I'm saving DVDPlayMode but loading DVDPlaybackMode

[22:37:53]

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[22:37:55]

Freman:

so which bit to change? :)

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[22:38:15]

Freman:

I think I'll change the playmode to playback as it's quicker to recompile the plugin :)

[22:38:59]

gbee:

sure just change HostComboBox("DVDPlayMode"); to HostComboBox("DVDPlaybackMode");

[22:39:24]

Freman:

:)

[22:39:41]

wagnerrp:

theyre an organization with sufficient control that they can influence the market

[22:40:03]

wagnerrp:

until considerable bandwidth becomes ubiquitous, they have control over the HD market

[22:40:25]

wagnerrp:

they are in a position to censor media, without being elected

[22:40:32]

sutula:

I wrote a user job to compress a file. It runs fine and the file is smaller. But the UI (mythfrontend and mythweb) both report the old file sizes. I've tried adding 'mythcommflag -f "$FILENAME" --rebuild' and 'mythtranscode -i "$FILENAME" --buildindex' to the end of the script, but neither affects it. What am I missing, besides brains? :)

[22:41:01]

wagnerrp:

if the government wants to censor us, thats our fault for electing them

[22:41:19]

Dagmar:

wagnerrp: That 5C thing will probablyl be on the order of the AT&T breakup

[22:41:26]

xris:

sutula: why not just use the built-in transcode stuff to re-compress/reencode the files rather than a separate user job?

[22:42:01]

xris:

wagnerrp: you must live in a country with a real democracy rather than the silly outdated republic us US-ians do.

[22:42:18]

Dagmar:

It's just a matter of the gov't's a little busy right now trying to figure out how to keep Bush from starting WWIII before we get him out or we'd probably be seeing rumblings in that direction

[22:42:27]

sutula:

xris: Honestly, because I can't figure out how it works and can't find documentation. On my default install, all the different transcode options have exactly the same settings.

[22:43:14]

Freman:

gbee, you are the king!

[22:43:27]

sutula:

The commercial flagging and transcoding page is a little weak about transcoding/compressing

[22:43:40]

gbee:

I assume that means you've got it working?

[22:44:22]

Freman:

oh yes!

[22:44:39]

xris:

sutula: probably because a lot of people just like the lossless mode to cut commercials. If you really want to re-encode to a more efficient format, you should look at nuvexport.

[22:45:31]

xris:

as for documentation, I think it gets overlooked because the settings are fairly standard for video encoding.. bitrate, etc. They're passed in pretty much verbatim from ffmpeg.

[22:46:03]

jblack:

One of the things I noticed about commskip was that it goes a lot faster if I transcode first.

[22:46:30]

kothog:

wagnerrp: the HD market is a small portion of the A/V market. Take proprietary microcontrollers for an analogy.. Atmel essentially has their niche markets cornered. And, for a while, they refused to sell AT90S2313 to very specific markets. Their chips were the only ones capable of doing the job (because of their ridiculous timing quality) and yet, Atmel says bugger off. I wouldn't call that monopolistic practices. Just a company refusing risk

[22:46:30]

kothog:

associating their brand with a particular business type.

[22:46:35]

Freman:

There's a slight cough at the start where the first frame of audio sounds like it's playign for the "you wouldn't steal a car" but then it jumps to the menu like a charm

[22:46:43]

sutula:

xris: My script was using ffmpeg...I'll try that...thanks

[22:47:53]

wagnerrp:

its like how civil lawsuits run rampant and create unwritten law in the US

[22:48:07]

wagnerrp:

just because its technically legal, doesnt make it in any way right

[22:48:22]

Dagmar:

Bleh

[22:48:29]

Dagmar:

Civil lawsuits are nothing compared to corporate greed

[22:48:38]

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[22:50:53]

Freman:

mind if I share this with a couple of friends gbee? I'll support it

[22:51:58]

xris:

sutula: myth's internal stuff uses the same backend libraries that ffmpeg does. however, since myth is pretty particular about the formats it plays back in TV mode, it's recommended that you use the built-in transcoder for that stuff. If you want another format (like mkv with h.264), it's recommended to use nuvexport and then move your files into somewhere mythvideo can see them.

[22:52:36]

sutula:

xris: OK...thanks...really appreciate the pointers

[22:53:11]

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[22:53:48]

Freman:

I might just give them the simplified version if it's ok tho – if (prbuffer->isDVD()) { nvp->GoToDVDMenu("menu"); }

[22:54:01]

xris:

I wrote nuvexport, so the whole exporting thing sort of falls on me to know about. :)

[22:54:49]

gbee:

Freman: sure, no problem

[22:55:07]

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[22:55:27]

Freman:

You've made a lot of people very happy

[22:55:29]

Freman:

expect beer

[22:55:35]

gbee:

heh

[22:55:41]

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[22:56:07]

gbee:

the complete patch, including the straight to main title stuff will be in 0.22 (well almost certainly)

[22:56:55]

Freman:

jolly good, I was really only after jump to menu – I just figured jump to title might have been there as it's how some other players work by default.

[22:57:09]

Freman:

I didn't think for a second how easy it might be to jump to menu

[22:57:16]

Freman:

given that it's an existing function

[22:57:47]

gbee:

a lot of players work that way since they originally didn't handle menus very well, so it was an efficient way of hiding that issue

[23:00:39]

gbee:

luckily the DVD normally labels the menu in the nav packets, but unfortunately not the main title – so for that you have to inspect the filesizes, it's all written it will just take a free hour or two to bring it up to date and into a format suitable for inclusion in trunk

[23:01:27]

gbee:

I'm not the guy who normally looks after the DVD playback stuff and he might want to look it over first

[23:03:25]

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[23:03:33]

Freman:

:)

[23:03:52]

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[23:03:54]

Freman:

I was starting up a whole website about dvd's that treat you like retards... now I don't need it

[23:03:55]

Freman:

:)

[23:13:32]

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[23:15:04]

Freman:

of course, you know now that they'll start bringing out dvd's with the you wouldn't steal a car in the main stream...

[23:17:23]

wagnerrp:

i love that, treating me like some sort of criminal because i choose to play my DVDs from a hard drive copy, rather than get up off the couch, search through an assload of DVD cases, and stick the movie in the player, after which having to sit through ads for movies that came out 5 years ago, and warnings telling me not to steal

[23:18:11]

kothog:

wagnerrp: have they made it illegal to modify a DVD on the way to an archive then? (I mean aside from stripping copy protections out of it. I just mean fiddling with the menu structure.)

[23:18:50]

Freman:

wagnerrp: no, they treat you as a criminal when you BUY a dvd, when you rip one you don't get all that crap

[23:19:00]

wagnerrp:

you can modify whatever you want, to your hearts content, for your own use

[23:19:06]

wagnerrp:

you just cant break the encryption

[23:19:49]

Freman:

in windows, the easiest way around that is to exploit a flaw in the system – play the dvd with a legit player (just a few seconds per chapter) then rip.

[23:19:58]

Freman:

you didn't break anything, it was legitimatly unlocked :)

[23:20:13]

kothog:

wagnerrp: Right.. thought so. Sometimes US law diverges a little and laws sneak in that I'm not aware of.

[23:20:25]

directhex:

Freman, they DO use the "you wouldn't steal a car" video

[23:20:27]

wagnerrp:

its personal use

[23:20:40]

Freman:

huh?

[23:20:41]

directhex:

Freman, any dvd with a 6-page language selection before you start uses it

[23:20:42]

kothog:

and archival purposes..

[23:20:45]

wagnerrp:

youre licensed to do whatever the hell you please as long as you dont distribute

[23:20:57]

wagnerrp:

except the encryption makes it illegal

[23:21:09]

kothog:

... which would be the DMCA provisions..

[23:21:10]

directhex:

wagnerrp, depends on your jurisdiction

[23:21:28]

directhex:

wagnerrp, and you're not LICENSED to do that, you're NOT LICENSED, whilst permitted by law. assuming US law

[23:21:31]

directhex:

big difference

[23:21:46]

Freman:

hmmm that's something I didn't think of gbee, I wonder what happens when I throw in a startrek dvd – they come in dozens of languages

[23:22:54]

gbee:

Freman: there is a default language setting in the frontend settings, we _should_ attempt to find the correct language and use that

[23:22:58]

kothog:

i thought it was an implicit right that hasn't been specifically eroded yet.

[23:23:30]

kothog:

fair use isn't it? It's the absence of law covering it right now?

[23:24:02]

gbee:

Freman: try it and see, if it doesn't work let me know and I'll discuss it with Stanley

[23:24:13]

kothog:

fair use hasn't been codified: that's what eben moglen was going on about in that talk he did a while back.

[23:25:02]

Freman:

okeydokey – just a side note here, some of these dvd's don't seem to have pressed properly cos english is french and visa versa (not myth's fault I almost sent them back because I couldn't find english)

[23:25:28]

wagnerrp:

anyone know how to force ffmpeg to output an mpeg2 container?

[23:25:38]

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[23:25:42]

wagnerrp:

it keep trying to mux into an mpeg1, which is causing problems

[23:26:11]

kothog:

Freman: do an mplayer -identify and check to see what the language code is, matched to the -aid. if it's backwards, then that's a problem. else, they've just re-ordered the default numerical indexes and somewhere in the dvd menu it defaults to the right one.

[23:26:26]

gbee:

Freman: at worst you'll have to switch the language via the DVD menu or OSD menu

[23:28:19]

wagnerrp:

ah, i needed a '-f vob'

[23:28:57]

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[23:29:23]

Freman:

it works fine

[23:29:33]

Freman:

jumps streight to the english menu

[23:30:03]

Freman:

but it might be a consideration for non-english viewers later :)

[23:30:03]

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[23:30:11]

Freman:

doesn't effect me adversly today

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[23:43:08]

zippytech:

what can be done to speed up the guide other operations of myth

[23:43:23]

zippytech:

i have a 2.8 p4 with 1 gig ram

[23:43:26]

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[23:43:50]

zippytech:

but seems slow some times almost looks to be locked on the guide but then resumes

[23:45:40]

kothog:

i get that, but in my case it's because my machine is overloaded and the backend database is running on old hardware on another machine.

[23:46:45]

zippytech:

well that why i upgraded to that , would a newer machine fix that

[23:47:33]

kothog:

i couldn't tell you I'm afraid. anything I say would be wild speculation. :) just work through it, use top, try some sar, and find performance thresholds.

[23:48:06]

zippytech:

there don't seem to be any overload that top show anyway

[23:48:50]

Freman:

I had it on my 1800xp but not on my newer 20something hundred xp amd... but then this is a complete fresh install and I probably did something different

[23:48:53]

bsdfox:

zippytech: what guide are you using

[23:48:59]

bsdfox:

there are some designed for low cpu usage

[23:49:15]

zippytech:

not sure directv

[23:49:35]

bsdfox:

uh

[23:49:39]

bsdfox:

what

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