MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (183):

A-, abqjp, adante, Agrajag-, ahbritto, ahbritto_, akv, alexvd_, andreax1, Anduin, AndyCap, anykey_, Arttu, Aval0n, Beirdo, benc_, bex2, bio___, bobgill_, briand, bsdfox_, cafuego, Caliban, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, chainsawbike, ChanServ, charlieS, clever, cocoa117, Computer_Czar, CoreDump, Cougar, cout, crichardson, croppa, CRXLNAWAY, d00gster, dagar, Dagmar, Dave123, dec, DGnome, Dibblah, Disputin, dlblog, dmz, drfontus, dustybin, eNeRGi, Exstatica, famicom_, Fen_Star, Floppe, FooBar01, fryfrog, GiantPickle, gnome42, gorillas, gregL, GreyFoxx, growler, Gumby, Hannibal-, harrisony, harzi, hatchmt, high-rez, Honk, Hoxzer, Huijari, iamlindoro, ivor, i_is_cat, J-e-f-f-A_, jabra, jamesd, jams, janneg, Jared555, jarle, jduggan, jk1joel, JohnMahowald, jpabq, justdave, justinh, kabtoffe, KaZeR, keith4, Kevin`, kormoc, kothog, KraMer, kuil_, LabMonkey, ldam, leprechau, Lynet, mace, MartinCleaver, MaverickTech, meshugga, mikegrb, mikeones, MilkBoy, mishehu, Mixx, moodboom, MythLogBot, mzb_d800, nagnag, neddy, Nem^, neztiti, Nido, Nik_Doof, nuonguy, Octane, olds, oliver, oobe, opello, packetscan, Patina, PatrickDK, pat_, phedny, phunguy, pigeon, piksi, PointyPumper, praet, psofa, purserj, quicksilver, RaYmAn-Bx, Ra^, Reiver, robthebob, rooaus, russK, Sedorox, selmanj, SHADOW__X, sid3windr, simcop2387, SlicerDicer, sphery, splat1, squidly, squish102, Sulx, sutula, tank-man, Tanthrix, tarbo, teprrr, test34, tfm, TheAsp, Therock_, Thomas-, thoraxe, tjcarter, tomimo, tonyb, toorima, Toxicity999, tris, TyposuDlrrp, Virindi, wagnerrp, webvictim, wesw02, Winkie, wire, xand, xris, zer-0-, [PUPPETS]Gonzo, _charly_, _gunni_
Monday, July 28th, 2008, 00:02 UTC
[00:02:14] Dagmar: Sounds like an ATI driver problem to me
[00:02:48] Dagmar: A problem that persists once a "normal" display is supposed to be on the scree, like the program guide, would indicate something has gone wrong with Xorg.
[00:03:27] Dagmar: Turn off any/all GL stuff, try to replicate the problem. Then turn off any/all XvMC stuff, try to replicate the problem.
[00:03:47] Dagmar: Changing one of those things is likely to make a decent workaround
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[00:03:53] MrGandalf: XvMC is off, Gl is off
[00:04:13] MrGandalf: MythTV crashes on GL with ATI + Xorg driver
[00:04:51] MrGandalf: it worked fine with an older Ubuntu.. likely a newer driver
[00:04:59] MrGandalf: quite annoying
[00:05:22] Dagmar: Yeah well, by now you've probably heard that nVidia is a much easier to deal with choise, so I won't nag
[00:05:51] MrGandalf: it's a laptop
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[00:07:19] wagnerrp: my ATI laptop works just great... go go 90's technology!
[00:07:59] wagnerrp: of course it starts to choke on higher bitrate divx...
[00:09:21] xamindar (xamindar!n=xamindar@32.156.107.165) has quit ("Leaving")
[00:11:31] black_Nightmare_: dagmar I have to agree..hadn't liked ati cards for quite a long while now myself
[00:12:17] massi_: where I can do "fine tuning" for analog channels?
[00:12:20] wagnerrp: well hopefully thats going to change in the near future
[00:12:36] wagnerrp: ATI seems to be pushing forward with better drivers
[00:14:44] cesman (cesman!n=cecil@76.91.113.176) has joined #mythtv-users
[00:15:16] Dagmar: Sounds like posturing for the press to me
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[00:15:37] Dagmar: I have yet to hear that these drivers magically solve long-standing problems with their unstable chipsets.
[00:15:56] Dagmar: ...and until that happens, it's jsut empty posturing that doesn't change a thing.
[00:16:23] MrGandalf: I get the feeling my issue is with having to disable opengl. I need to get down to the bottom of that segfault.
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[00:25:07] squish103: can any1 give me a good ir receiver that works well with mythtv?
[00:25:23] squish103: or does everyone use the keyboard
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[00:27:45] iamlindoro: Few use a keyboard. Most use either homebrew serial receivers, the MCE USB receiver, or receivers which are onboard their capture devices
[00:28:18] iamlindoro: There are, of course, many many other options, but those seem to be the most common.
[00:29:09] Dagmar: squish103: THere's _many_ listed on the wiki
[00:29:17] ** black_Nightmare_ uses a pre-built serial>ir connector board for my pc (might end up getting second one for mythtv but who knows) **
[00:37:23] SHADOW__X: man i wish i could tell what movies i am watching when i tune to my on deamnd channels
[00:37:25] SHADOW__X: lol
[00:37:58] SHADOW__X: hey everyone again
[00:38:10] SHADOW__X: i wish ubuntu moved forward quicker on kernels
[00:39:32] iamlindoro: IF you need your kernel to package up your kernel pretty for you, then you don't get to complain about them not being fast enough ;)
[00:39:45] iamlindoro: er that first kernel =distro
[00:40:07] SHADOW__X: alright well then i guess i need to learn how to keep lirc working
[00:40:08] SHADOW__X: :D
[00:43:19] SHADOW__X: better iamlindoro?
[00:46:22] Dagmar: I'm pretty sure your cable company would view your "on deamnd" channels to be theft.
[00:46:30] Dagmar: I strongly suggest you not bring that up in here again.
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[00:47:16] ** iamlindoro finally stumbles across the magic mplayer voodoo hoodoo options that make his Star Trek HD-DVDs play properly and in sync **
[00:47:28] wagnerrp: if it were to be theft, they would encrypt it
[00:47:37] wagnerrp: they cant fault you for hitting the scan button on your TV
[00:47:40] black_Nightmare_: heh...did they sell star trek season sets on hd-dvd?
[00:47:48] iamlindoro: yes
[00:48:10] iamlindoro: Well, one season's worth of TOS, that is
[00:48:20] SHADOW__X: Dagmar: they encrypt other stuff
[00:48:30] SHADOW__X: and fair enough
[00:48:51] black_Nightmare_: hmm well colour me a bit blind but I never ever saw any hd-dvd's in stores because well the last time I bothered checking the local new&used movie place was several months ago (figured didn't that) so hm well yeah I haven't even seen much bluray ones yet as well
[00:49:18] Dagmar: wagnerrp: I can assure you that's _not_ the way the courts would view it.
[00:49:42] Dagmar: This isn't a subject we want to dick with, because it's hard enough to watch our legit content.
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[00:50:37] Dagmar: If it became a media-facing issue, like P2P music trading and movies were/are, you can expect that there will come down a number of laws and legal rulings that will basically make it pretty much fucking impossible to watch our stuff, and a class E felony to even *try*.
[00:51:06] SHADOW__X: alright Dagmar no more of that then fair :)
[00:53:45] wagnerrp: well the bigger problem is that there is no mechanism to predict such broadcasts, so without somehow decrypting the transmissions between nearby cable boxes, its nothing more than a... cant think of the word
[00:53:53] wagnerrp: something interesting... but ultimately pointless
[00:54:28] SHADOW__X: right
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[00:57:23] massi_: what about p2p TV? can I watch on mythtv?
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[00:57:48] black_Nightmare_: hmm iamlindoro just looked on amazon out of curiousity and damn..so many movies with deep price cuts .. maybe I need to see if I want order some :p
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[00:59:22] Dagmar: I tend to trawl through Best Buy's $5.99 and $4.99 specials each week for that very same reason
[01:00:05] Dagmar: No point in pirating anything when I can stay more than busy buying cool scifi/supernatural flicks for less than the video store is likely to cost me for renting something twice
[01:00:31] Dagmar: Like, none whatsoever.
[01:00:37] black_Nightmare_: hmm yes these cheap-price bins ... the east recycler I know of sometimes has one of these filled up mainly with generic/oversupplied items (too often many mouses end up in there)
[01:00:43] Dagmar: It's less trouble to buy the stuff, and that's the way it _should_ be
[01:00:55] Dagmar: Pfft.
[01:01:00] Dagmar: I look on the *website*
[01:01:06] black_Nightmare_: dagmar I so have to agree...the only thing I download from internet are well like free pictures, emails, etc .. all easily legal :p
[01:01:15] Dagmar: They'll ship it to me so I don't even have to spend time going there and back or digging through bins
[01:01:43] black_Nightmare_: well many stores don't even list their used/bin items online due to it not being a stable 'weekly' product
[01:01:48] black_Nightmare_: (for around here anyway)
[01:02:32] massi_: no way to fine-tune analog channels in looktv section?
[01:03:14] Dagmar: Look into the Channel Editor.
[01:03:55] massi_: in beckend?
[01:04:06] Dagmar: It's either under http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frontend_Channel_Editor or it's in one of the last two screens in Mythtv-setup
[01:04:29] Dagmar: Don't bother asking me any more about it because that's all I know of it, never having to change the fine-tuning numbers
[01:05:08] massi_: hope i wont Dagmar ;)
[01:07:22] black_Nightmare_: dagmar well can you agree on one thing with me – massi is nice? :p
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[01:09:24] black_Nightmare_: heh
[01:09:37] massi_: black_Nightmare_: i m so sorry but i m trying to set up mythtv so i did not read all stuff. I agree with i saying yes: i just download opensource software.
[01:10:04] massi_: nothing illegal :D
[01:10:10] black_Nightmare_: heh well I actually meant more of you're not like repeating questions ... making little sense .. etc
[01:10:13] black_Nightmare_: ;)
[01:11:35] massi_: i m very sorry but i had to repeat! I can't find fine-tuning-editor-channel. But i'll repeat the question tomorrow :D
[01:12:02] Dagmar: http://www.rif.org
[01:12:24] massi_: lol
[01:12:43] Dagmar: It's in one of those two places, or it _does not exist_.
[01:12:47] massi_: yes, i m reading :)
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[01:15:05] massi_: in betwen... there is not autosearch for cover for music and video. I have a lot of them on my hd
[01:15:26] massi_: nevermind i just found it
[01:15:28] Dagmar: Of course there's no autosearch.
[01:15:59] massi_: i can set cover, but not mythtv do not do it automatically
[01:16:51] Dagmar: Software is supposed to be able to look at an image and decide what multimedia file it goes with?
[01:16:53] Dagmar: Umm.. no.
[01:18:02] massi_: i use elisa media center as well. Elisa set any album-covers just putting image file called "cover" inside the album's folder
[01:18:36] massi_: forgive my eng sorry
[01:18:51] massi_: it s late to me :)
[01:19:31] Dagmar: MythMusic assumes anything that's an image in the directory with the music files is an album cover.
[01:19:40] Dagmar: MythVideo doesn't make any assumptions like that.
[01:19:41] Dagmar: Read the docs.
[01:20:16] massi_: in a couple of month i ll read eveerything thank
[01:20:48] Dagmar: Well, I suppose that saves me the trouble of answering any more questuons.
[01:21:18] massi_: none ask direct to you
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[01:30:18] black_Nightmare_: ugh well ebay.ca has the hd-dvd drive category filled with JUNKS so if noone mind me asking: were there that much hd-dvd drives made for computers or it was pretty much more of settop player market before toshiba pulled out?
[01:31:00] wagnerrp: HDDVD drives were far more common than BR before the loss
[01:31:16] iamlindoro: Just buy the Xbox hd-dvd drive, it's just a USB computer drive
[01:31:23] iamlindoro: $20–30 now
[01:31:23] wagnerrp: if for no other reason than it was 1/3 the price
[01:32:36] black_Nightmare_: hmm wagnerrp were there only hddvd-rom's or are burners somehow likely (neverminding the question of where to even get media heheh :"> )
[01:33:07] wagnerrp: im just assuming sales, based off the prices
[01:33:09] black_Nightmare_: iamlindoro hmm I forgot about that one, is it just a standard drive inside or its a custom MS external drive?
[01:33:26] wagnerrp: however theres little worth to a hddvd burner anymore
[01:33:41] black_Nightmare_: true that, was only wondering about it
[01:33:43] iamlindoro: Just a standard toshiba drive
[01:33:57] iamlindoro: w/ xbox branding
[01:34:10] black_Nightmare_: iamlindoro ah ok – one quick question related to it.... ide or sata type?
[01:34:33] SHADOW__X: usb type
[01:34:43] iamlindoro: USB, and I'm not about to crack it open to tell you what interface beyond that-- you're perfectly capable of googling
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[01:38:56] black_Nightmare_: hm seem the drive actually was built from two companies.. samsung and toshiba together
[01:41:14] black_Nightmare_: heh looks like I'll have to take my dremel to one of these thing to make it fit into a conventional 5.25" bay
[01:41:24] Dagmar: It's a normal 2.5" HDD. Whether it's IDE or SATA doesn't much matter, although it wouldn't take 10 minutes of googling to find out
[01:41:53] black_Nightmare_: actually its a optical drive.. 5.25" with custom mount brackets
[01:42:20] iamlindoro: or just leave it in the damn case and plug it in to a USB port like everyone else
[01:42:23] black_Nightmare_: seem to be sata as far as xbox disassemble photo shows
[01:42:23] Dagmar: Not the x-box drive
[01:42:30] black_Nightmare_: dagmar..ohh sorry heh
[01:43:00] SHADOW__X: i secound with iamlindoro it works that way
[01:43:10] black_Nightmare_: iamlindoro well excuse me for having several firewire ports but only a single onboard usb1.1 ^_^
[01:43:17] black_Nightmare_: sound weird I know but meh
[01:43:30] Dagmar: Probably cheaper to buy one without the x-box branding tho
[01:43:37] iamlindoro: If you have a motherboard that doesn't have USB 2.0, then I guarantee you it will be useless to you
[01:43:52] Dagmar: You don't want to use USB 1.1 for anything but mice and keyboards if you can help it
[01:43:54] iamlindoro: as your machine is too shit to handle HD-DVD video
[01:45:14] black_Nightmare_: dagmar yeah true on that, there's basic printers as well tho (I used to have a deskjet on that but its long gone now)
[01:46:51] black_Nightmare_: dagmar..interesting enough wasn't usb actually meant for input devices etc then companies started discovering things like usb webcams etc to the point that now we have usb2 and soon going for usb3 huh? :p
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[01:49:16] cesman: "soon" is up for interpetation
[01:50:59] black_Nightmare_: bah either I must have bad idea of where to look or this is the only one thing pricewatch&pricegrabber lists http://www.canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=S . . . p;cid=CR.405 .. hmm *pokes at web search results some more*
[01:51:10] black_Nightmare_: admittly I guess its a dvdrw drive :p
[01:51:24] Dagmar: Um.... you're just plain wrong.
[01:51:31] Dagmar: USB *was* meant for input devices.
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[01:55:00] black_Nightmare_: sorry I did actually meant that...just type a bit funny at times when I'm tired
[01:55:06] black_Nightmare_: perhaps going to bed soon anyway
[01:55:15] Dagmar: Here's some bedtime reading material then
[01:55:16] Dagmar: http://craphound.com/littlebrother/Cory_Docto . . . _Brother.htm
[01:55:21] Dagmar: Free book of Cory Doctorow's.
[01:55:43] Dagmar: S'good stuff. You'll like it, _and_ it's educational.
[01:56:42] black_Nightmare_: heh ok I've bookmarked it to read another time ty ;)
[01:56:51] black_Nightmare_: not often that I come across free long stories to read :)
[01:58:17] ** black_Nightmare_ still has to even get over halfway through THIS one yet http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/LonHiaw.html **
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[02:00:26] Dagmar: Well, Wadsworth is kinda hard to get into without a lot of history research
[02:00:49] Dagmar: The brain has to do a LOT of work converting that text into mental imagery
[02:01:09] Dagmar: ...not because there's a lot of it, but because it's so extremely alien from what we already know
[02:01:53] black_Nightmare_: anyway I think I'm going off..see you tomorrow or so allright?
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[02:07:39] wagnerrp: i think he meant USB wasnt meant for data transfer
[02:07:53] wagnerrp: bulk data transfer
[02:08:15] Dagmar: fair 'nuff
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[02:15:51] wagnerrp: anyone noticing that USA shows are not following rerun rules?
[02:16:55] wagnerrp: if i delete an old recording, it will automatically re-record that episode
[02:16:58] wagnerrp: only for shows on that channel
[02:17:26] wagnerrp: regardless of 'new episode only' and 'previously recorded' filters
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[02:18:12] SHADOW__X: hmm
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[02:19:21] squish102: i have a problem. doing a 'cat /dev/input/event2' produces some junk when i press remote keys but
[02:19:57] squish102: doing the following '/usr/sbin/lircd -H dev/input -d /dev/input/event2 -n
[02:20:12] squish102: and an irw in another terminal produces nothing :(
[02:21:05] squish102: any1 know what step i should do next to try figure out what is wrong with lircd
[02:21:24] squish102: other than google and read docs, because i have tried that for 2 days now
[02:22:20] Tomasu is now known as TomasuAway
[02:27:58] cesman: lirc will output to syslog (or it own log depending on how it was configured)...
[02:29:24] Lexridge (Lexridge!n=Lexridge@75.108.69.120) has joined #mythtv-users
[02:30:40] Lexridge: Man, if it weren't for bad luck, I would have none at all. Last night my computer network took a lighning strike through the cable modem.....UGH!!!
[02:31:11] SHADOW__X: sweet
[02:31:30] Lexridge: It took out both Hauppauge cards in one system, my router, three gigabit switches and the modem. :(
[02:32:13] SHADOW__X: that shit sucks
[02:32:28] Lexridge: yea, this is the third time in as many years.
[02:32:36] SHADOW__X: arent there surge protectors that do coax
[02:32:48] iamlindoro: God is telling you to MOVE
[02:32:56] SHADOW__X: lol
[02:32:57] cesman: lol!
[02:33:03] iamlindoro: And he's being nice by only hitting computer equipment
[02:33:09] Lexridge: I was going through one.
[02:33:37] Lexridge: iamlindoro: yea, I'm beginning to get the idea.
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[02:34:05] Lexridge: and just 4 wks ago, a fscking 70 foot pine tree fell into my house and garage!
[02:34:30] Lexridge: I don't dare call my insurance company again....DOH!
[02:34:52] squish102: thanks cesman.. i dont see anything in there unfortunatly :(
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[02:35:20] SHADOW__X: man you really need to move
[02:35:31] Lexridge: The tree did about $14K damage, but no computer equipment in that one. I'd guess this strike will cost me about $500.
[02:36:17] Lexridge: When I originally bought my HVR1600 three months ago, I paid $79 for it. Today, the replacement cost me $100. Ouch!
[02:36:33] Lexridge: inflation?
[02:36:53] SHADOW__X: just a bit
[02:37:06] SHADOW__X: if you can find it in a store i found them at circuite city for 50
[02:37:08] Lexridge: SHADOW_X. Trying to actually. Just need to get some things in place first.
[02:37:13] SHADOW__X: it says outlet though
[02:37:22] SHADOW__X: ah right i know that feeling
[02:37:25] Lexridge: I bought this one today at CC.
[02:38:15] Lexridge: I replace two of my GB switches with 100Mb single duplex hubs. Oh the PAIN!!! Well, it will get me by until I can replace the GB swithes.
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[02:38:47] Lexridge: why are GB switches so damn expensive?
[02:39:37] SHADOW__X: because bitches still buy 100mb
[02:39:38] SHADOW__X: lol
[02:39:43] squish102: wait for a special.. i think i got 8 port netgears for about $19
[02:39:49] Lexridge: lol, oh, that's why
[02:39:52] SHADOW__X: where squish102
[02:40:03] SHADOW__X: eh i dont know i have to buy a 16 port soon and that will hurt
[02:40:06] SHADOW__X: so i know how you feel
[02:40:16] SHADOW__X: i got a 8 port dlink it wasnt 20 though it was 60
[02:40:17] SHADOW__X: :(
[02:41:15] squish102: Lexridge http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . 252f1000Mbps
[02:41:24] squish102: around $24 for an 8 port
[02:41:56] Lexridge: I really don't need GB here in the house, but I just like having it. Most of my swithes are small 4 port stuff, but mainly used to get my garage connections complete. Wow, that's cheap!!
[02:42:27] Lexridge: the last 4 port I bought was $70!!
[02:42:48] Lynet: Consumer-grade GigE is cheapo these days.
[02:42:51] SHADOW__X: hmm
[02:43:12] Lexridge: does the consumer grade stuff run any cooler than it used to?
[02:43:27] Lexridge: that stuff could get extremely HOT!
[02:45:46] Lynet: Dunno, depends on switch asic, I suppose.
[02:46:51] Lexridge: yea, I guess so. My experience with D-Link consumer switches you cannot hold them in your hand while on. I cannot believe that lasted as long as they did.
[02:47:47] SHADOW__X: my dlink switch gets decently hot if its being maxed out
[02:48:50] Lexridge: I had purchased these to run an eight machine PowerMac network, doing video production. The switches were quite busy.
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[02:49:27] Lexridge: They got so hot, I had to unstack them....and that only helped a little.
[02:49:43] Dagmar: heheh
[02:50:18] Lexridge: heydagmar
[02:50:24] Lexridge: howya doin?
[02:57:44] Lexridge: I've been considering building my own (managed) switches using a NanoATA setup. I've already built one of these things to turn into a media player for my vehicle. Now, I just to need to create a custom linux install to make it do things. ;)
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[03:00:30] Lexridge: check this out: http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/mainboards/specialty
[03:01:50] Lexridge: These things would make awesome MythTV client machines!
[03:02:56] Lexridge: Especially the AMD boards: http://www.logicsupply.com/categories/mainboards/amd
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[03:03:27] mrfaye: anybody use a bt878 device?
[03:04:02] mrfaye: i cant remember how to get my sound working. it involved some commandline kungfu... im running the audio via a patch cable to the soundcard line in
[03:06:41] Lexridge: dunno if this will help, but there is this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-620252.html
[03:06:48] wagnerrp: that rosewill apparently gets pretty hot
[03:07:01] wagnerrp: but my netgears are not warm to the touch
[03:07:32] wagnerrp: i had an older linksys 8-port gigabit that burned up
[03:08:17] Lexridge: So you're saying linksys gigE is hot too? I will see if the netgears are available around here. thx.
[03:11:30] wagnerrp: to be honest, ive never liked netgear, but the pair of switches i have seem to work fine
[03:13:40] Lexridge: I will certainly check them out.
[03:14:07] Lexridge: MythTV just works so much better over gigabit.
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[03:14:31] wagnerrp: i dont know why it would
[03:14:41] Lexridge: I'm getting a lot of collisons with my single duplex hubs that are now in place.
[03:15:00] wagnerrp: hubs or switches?
[03:15:19] wagnerrp: with hubs, of course youre getting collisions out the ass
[03:15:25] Lexridge: Hubs! Those were spares in the garbage pile, that I am glad I had not thrown them out yet.
[03:15:47] Lexridge: otherwise, I would not be typing this right now.
[03:15:57] wagnerrp: hubs != duplex
[03:16:22] Lexridge: exactly!
[03:16:44] wagnerrp: you said 'single duplex hubs', so i was confused by your working
[03:16:45] Lexridge: That is what I'm saying....collisons out the ass due to this. I think we agree.
[03:16:58] wagnerrp: *wording
[03:16:58] Lexridge: yea, terminology.
[03:17:25] Dagmar: hubs == teh slow
[03:18:09] Lexridge: yea, I'm just glad my throw-aways were not 10 base T. That is the only thing that would've been worse.
[03:20:43] Lexridge: mythtv *might* work under a 10-B-T connection, but just barely.
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[03:21:12] wagnerrp: it should work just fine on 10mbit
[03:21:22] wagnerrp: one stream would, anyway
[03:21:42] iamlindoro: So long as said stream is only medium bitrate SD
[03:21:49] Lexridge: yes.
[03:22:07] iamlindoro: and you don't look at your network too hard and the wind is blowing at your back
[03:22:16] Lexridge: lol, that too
[03:22:39] Lexridge: and you have to hold you head just right.
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[03:23:26] Lexridge: actually, the video streaming would be a cakewalk compared to the database lookups for programming material.
[03:24:02] Lexridge: mysql seems to dominate my backend system.
[03:24:42] wagnerrp: what speed is your backend?
[03:24:57] Lexridge: fortunely, it is a athlon64 4200, so there's plenty of horsepower. It just uses a lot more than I would expect.
[03:25:05] wagnerrp: because there should be minimal sql load
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[03:25:15] wagnerrp: at most a few queries per second
[03:25:44] Lexridge: I cannot quickly scroll through the programming without noticable lag, from a client machine.
[03:26:14] Lexridge: of course the situtation has worsened because of my limited connectivety.
[03:28:23] Lexridge: this only happens when actually using the database (mythweb, programming guide, etc) On my LAN, it takes almost 2 minutes to get a full programming guide into Firefox from a client machine.
[03:28:43] SHADOW__X: try in opera
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[03:29:03] SHADOW__X: interestingly enough if i am editing my channel info in mythweb firefox 3 locks up on me
[03:29:16] SHADOW__X: although that could be a issue due to some of my plugins
[03:29:23] SHADOW__X: still wortth a shot though
[03:29:34] wagnerrp: is there such a thing as consumer POE equipment?
[03:29:35] Lexridge: I will crash when running FF and MythTV at the same time....on different monitors.
[03:29:57] wagnerrp: like a cheap access point that accepts cat5 power
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[03:30:46] SHADOW__X: hmm wagnerrp i dont know about that but they do have point to point poe
[03:31:26] Lexridge: wagnerrp: Yea, but I cannot tell you a brand to look for. I do know that DD-WRT supports several dedicated POE access points. Look there first.
[03:31:52] wagnerrp: ah, you can buy power splitters as well
[03:32:23] Lexridge: dunno about that, but it seems reasonable.
[03:34:15] Lexridge: Does Opera support Linux now? It's been several years since I've looked at Opera.
[03:35:08] SHADOW__X: yup
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[03:35:19] SHADOW__X: if you are running ubuntu its in add/remove programs
[03:35:46] Lexridge: well, I guess that proves it. ;)
[03:36:00] SHADOW__X: http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?platform=linux
[03:36:09] wagnerrp: its been on linux for several major versions
[03:36:30] Lexridge: I'm afraid to launch firefox as I have mythtv running on the other monitor. I fear a Xorg lock-up.
[03:36:49] SHADOW__X: do opera
[03:36:57] Lexridge: I'll check it out later. thanks, I will certainly d/l it.
[03:37:02] SHADOW__X: hmm what os so you can do wget
[03:37:07] SHADOW__X: ill give you the donwload link
[03:37:15] Lexridge: gimme a link...wget works fine.
[03:37:25] SHADOW__X: give me os info
[03:37:28] Lexridge: fedora rpm
[03:37:46] SHADOW__X: 64 or 32
[03:38:09] Lexridge: FC6 to be exact. Yea, I'm a little behind, but I compile most of my stuff these days, and don't want to loose it. 32 bit
[03:39:34] SHADOW__X: over ftp get.opera.com
[03:39:40] Lexridge: Is Opera still semi-commercial?
[03:39:41] SHADOW__X: i am having issues finding the donwload link
[03:39:49] Lexridge: okay
[03:40:22] Lexridge: lemme try konqueror. it may work.
[03:40:32] SHADOW__X: k
[03:40:38] Lexridge: If i timeout disconnect, you will know why ;)
[03:40:40] SHADOW__X: or yanno gftp or a ftp prog
[03:41:15] Lexridge: gftp is running
[03:42:31] SHADOW__X: k
[03:43:02] Lexridge: oh, there is a qt4 version. I have qt4.1 installed.....static version should work.
[03:43:59] Lexridge: found a qt3 version. that should work better. d/l'ing now.
[03:46:07] Lexridge: okay, opera 9.1 is now running.
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[03:47:22] Lexridge: so far so good.
[03:47:41] SHADOW__X: thats good
[03:48:04] Lexridge: yea
[03:48:38] Lexridge: what is the hotkey to open a new tab?
[03:49:08] SHADOW__X: control t
[03:49:10] SHADOW__X: isnt it
[03:49:13] SHADOW__X: the same as ff
[03:49:34] Lexridge: ctl t brings up the "Speed Dial"
[03:49:59] SHADOW__X: type in the addy in the top
[03:50:03] Lexridge: nm, figured it out.
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[03:51:24] Lexridge: looks nice, I will play for a few days on this.
[03:51:26] Lexridge: thanks
[03:51:28] SHADOW__X: mhm
[03:51:31] SHADOW__X: aytime
[03:52:19] Lexridge: what about my firefox plugins?
[03:52:31] Lexridge: do they automagically work with Opera?
[03:52:37] SHADOW__X: ol
[03:52:40] SHADOW__X: your a funny guy
[03:52:48] Lexridge: thought so. ;)
[03:53:51] Lexridge: Apparently, I have some reading to do on Opera. lol
[03:55:42] SHADOW__X: yup
[03:56:14] Lexridge: flash 9 appears to work fine.
[03:56:43] SHADOW__X: yup
[03:56:51] SHADOW__X: for linux standards that is
[03:56:52] SHADOW__X: :D
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[04:50:47] Jared555: hey, would the RS-232 port on a cable box 'to be hooked up to an external hd tv decoder' be of use for mythtv? or the 'high speed'/'out of band' data or ir ports? (all 3 are the same)
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[04:52:36] wagnerrp: not quite sure what youre asking
[04:53:01] wagnerrp: at most, the rs-232 port would take the place of an ir blaster for changing volume
[04:53:07] wagnerrp: err... channel
[04:53:44] wagnerrp: and putting a cable box inline of another tuner is pointless
[04:53:53] wagnerrp: you have to capture the video output from the tuner
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[05:03:22] Jared555: what I read said something about it connects to high definition tuner (it is a low def cable box)
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[05:29:29] wagnerrp: a low definition cable box wont get you anything but low definition TV
[05:29:53] wagnerrp: also, there is no reason for a SD STB unless you want to access scrambled channels
[05:30:09] wagnerrp: with digital cable, you have three options
[05:30:20] wagnerrp: try to access the channels directly with a digital tuner card
[05:30:32] wagnerrp: but you only get unencrypted channels
[05:30:53] wagnerrp: try to access an STB over firewire, but again, you can run into encryption
[05:31:13] wagnerrp: or, access the video outs of an STB
[05:31:34] wagnerrp: but if youre using an STB, there is no reason for a tuner card
[05:32:36] Jared555: basically it is a SD digital set top box.... no firewire.... just seemed strange that the manuals I looked at said it was for connecting to an external decoder
[05:33:09] Jared555: then the two other 'data' jacks that I am really not sure what it is.... one says high speed, one out of band
[05:33:34] wagnerrp: well 'out of band' implies a management port
[05:33:40] wagnerrp: i have no idea what 'high speed' is
[05:33:49] wagnerrp: perhaps that is a passthrough port for a cable modem
[05:34:07] Jared555: what I thought.... just seemed strange that it was the same kind of connector as the IR/OOB
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[08:02:52] justinh: hmmph. seems even getting stuff delivered to work isn't immune from risk. package came in for me on friday & it's disappeared
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[11:05:50] waxhead: hi everyone
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[12:20:52] anny__: hi, I have a SunWin ATU688 USB capture card with no linux driver apparently, is there a workaround for this or i have to buy a new capture card from the supported list of MythTv
[12:23:21] Sulx: new card from list of v4l-dvb
[12:23:43] Sulx: its more up to date
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[12:56:07] oobe: does anyone else find it hard to see the tick in setup boxes using some themes is it possible to change the tick colour to white instead of black
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[13:00:10] mzb_d800: yes, don't know
[13:00:21] mzb_d800: (either)
[13:01:20] justinh: black tick boxes?
[13:01:30] justinh: don't think I've ever seen one
[13:01:54] clever: the style of the check boxes used to depend on the qt style chosen
[13:02:03] justinh: thought they were all white or yellow on transparent backgrounds.
[13:02:06] clever: not shure how the mythui is affecting that
[13:02:24] justinh: oh wait yeah the setup menus are mostly qt widgets
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[13:11:36] oobe: thanks so if i change the st stype from opengl it may fix it
[13:13:38] justinh: nope
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[13:19:34] justinh: the setting you want is 'Qt Look'
[13:19:38] justinh: oops
[13:19:42] justinh: Qt Style
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[13:22:10] oobe: justinh, thanks that works
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[13:59:45] tcpsyn: morning folks.
[14:00:24] tcpsyn: I noticed while moving my mythbox that my ps3 no longer sees the upnp server...
[14:00:50] sid3windr: I think if it happens while you're moving the myth box it should be normal, no? :>
[14:00:53] tcpsyn: Could this be because I have my mythbox on a wired router and my ps3 on a seperate wireless router?
[14:01:10] tcpsyn: do I need to open up any ports on the wireless router that could be blocking upnp traffic?
[14:03:51] justinh: wouldn't expect it to be blocking anything on the LAN side
[14:10:57] clever: the 1st time i hooked 2 routers together i did it 'wrong'
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[14:11:02] clever: and made 2 seperate lans
[14:11:25] GreyFoxx: tcpd: My wireless laptops see my wired mythbox upnp server
[14:12:02] tcpsyn: Nah me neither. But my network is a little different... Mythbox is connected to the physical router over a wireless bridge.
[14:12:05] GreyFoxx: I did have a cheap little acer wireless router one where upnp traffic didn't pass
[14:12:15] tcpsyn: and the ps3 is connected to a standalone wireless access point on the san subnet
[14:12:36] GreyFoxx: If it's one of those wireless "gaming routers" I'd expect those to have problems
[14:13:16] tcpsyn: the wirless router is one of the newer linksys N routers..
[14:13:22] tcpsyn: and the bridge is netgear
[14:13:24] GreyFoxx: The ones I've seen use proxy arp rather than a straight brigge
[14:13:48] tcpsyn: hrm I guess I could skip the wireless router and just run a cable straight to my main router
[14:13:50] sphery: Doesn't UPnP use multicast UDP (or is that just the backend autodiscovery)? Isn't that unroutable?
[14:14:01] tcpsyn: but then I'm still going to have to get that traffic passing through the bridge
[14:14:24] GreyFoxx: spher: it is multicast , and wont pass through networks without a specific multicastrouting config
[14:14:39] tcpsyn: sphery, I'm not really routing anything though, everythings on the same subnet.
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[14:15:19] clever: tcpsyn: yeah and the 1st time i hooked up 2 routers i made 2 seperate subnets
[14:15:28] sphery: OK. Just thought what clever mentioned might apply (since configuring every router is different, it's easy to make mistakes as setting up new ones).
[14:15:30] GreyFoxx: tcps: tried running mythbackend with -v upnp and see if it sees the ps3 looking for it ?
[14:15:45] tcpsyn: is there any way I can troubleshoot with telnet or something
[14:15:50] clever: sphery: i hooked the WAN of the new one to the LAN of another and told it to dhcp the wan port
[14:15:51] tcpsyn: just to see where the fault is?
[14:16:26] clever: sphery: the 'proper' way to make them the same subnet is to change the private ip of the router into the right subnet then connect the LAN ports together
[14:16:41] tcpsyn: aye
[14:16:45] tcpsyn: edzachery
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[14:17:21] GreyFoxx: clev: Don't need to set the IP of the second router, just turn off DHCP and then connect the lan ports
[14:17:35] GreyFoxx: doesn't matter what the IP of the second router is, it's just 2 bridged switches at that point
[14:17:45] clever: GreyFoxx: yeah but it helps if i ever want to look at its config
[14:17:48] GreyFoxx: BUt you shuold ensure they are different
[14:17:59] GreyFoxx: so no two devices try to use the same IP
[14:18:03] sphery: GreyFoxx: assuming the firmware of the router actually supports disabling NAT, et. al.
[14:18:05] clever: yep
[14:18:13] clever: sphery: no need to disable nat
[14:18:24] clever: aslong as i dont use the router's ip as a gateway, it wont nat things
[14:18:24] GreyFoxx: spher: Any router with a switch is fine, just turn off DHCP so you will never use it as a gateway,
[14:18:29] GreyFoxx: just a expensive switch :)
[14:18:44] clever: GreyFoxx: yep im doing that with the old linksys router
[14:18:45] tcpsyn: not really, anymore.
[14:18:53] clever: and the dlink router im using as a wifi access point
[14:19:02] tcpsyn: just as cheap to buy a router as a switch it seems
[14:19:06] sphery: Yeah, but I've seen some routers where you can't turn off DHCP (and a lot more of the routing stuff).
[14:19:07] tcpsyn: at least a little 4 port one
[14:19:23] GreyFoxx: sphe: That would suck pretty hard :)
[14:19:27] justinh: arghh asshats in purchasing dept had my package
[14:19:29] clever: sphery: then make that one the main router and shut dhcp off on all others
[14:19:39] clever: sphery: or make everything not use dhcp(static config)
[14:19:41] GreyFoxx: tcpd: 8 port surcom switches are like $16
[14:19:57] GreyFoxx: I've yet to see any of those little linksys type routers in that range
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[14:23:30] GreyFoxx: I've got a ton fo switches at home, managed, and so on, but I don't use them as I don't like the sound of the fans :) so I['m just using a couple bridged 8 port surecoms into the back of a linksys wrt with openwrt on it :)
[14:24:39] dalesworld: hello i need some help i have a visiontek tv wondercard hd600 how do get to run in mythtvubuntu there is nothing about it in there weke
[14:25:41] justinh: does anybody in #ubuntu-mythtv know?
[14:25:56] dalesworld: thay sent me here
[14:26:24] PatrickDK: hmm, a weke
[14:26:42] justinh: is the card even supported in linux?
[14:26:56] justinh: www.linuxtv.org – see the wiki there
[14:27:15] justinh: if it isn't listed there, you can probably forget all hope of it working
[14:27:28] justinh: (with some exceptions)
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[14:29:00] dalesworld: it works on suse but no sound
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[14:52:58] ivor: just saw the PS3 comments.... does anyone have problem playing back large files on their PS3?
[14:53:30] clever: buy me a ps3 and i can test it on a 2gig file:P
[14:53:36] ivor: mine seems to get stuck at about the 2Gb mark.
[14:54:00] clever: ive seen nfs totaly explode on >2g files
[14:54:06] clever: cant even stat the thing
[14:55:07] tcpsyn: ivor, haven't had too many problems with the ps3, other than the whole lack of MPEG2-TS support.
[14:55:18] tcpsyn: And of course the lack of games
[14:55:34] tcpsyn: And the whole sony releasing crap firmware
[15:00:15] PatrickDK: are you sure? nothing else?
[15:00:31] clever: lol
[15:00:40] clever: PatrickDK: did you get that link i sent you a few days ago?
[15:00:42] tcpsyn: I think that's about it
[15:00:53] PatrickDK: dunno
[15:01:08] PatrickDK: atleast I don't remember going to any link
[15:01:14] clever: PatrickDK: http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpress/index.html
[15:01:18] PatrickDK: I did lose power for like 4hours :(
[15:01:28] clever: you mentioned how you had too many cards to fit into 1 server
[15:02:03] PatrickDK: ya, but I also am exceeding the bus bandwidth
[15:02:09] PatrickDK: and have no pcie on those servers
[15:02:41] PatrickDK: hmm, pcie over fiber
[15:02:50] PatrickDK: I wonder how long you can go before you have latency issues
[15:03:09] clever: what could you be using that maxes out the bus itself?
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[15:04:02] PatrickDK: maxing out the bus is easy
[15:04:09] PatrickDK: mainly is just harddrives
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[15:04:52] PatrickDK: pcix supports 530mbytes/s
[15:05:30] PatrickDK: after you take timing into account, I have never been able to push over about 400mb/s though
[15:08:09] PatrickDK: yuk, it's only an pcie x8?
[15:09:53] clever: some of them work on laptops
[15:09:58] clever: full size desktop cards
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[15:10:28] clever: you could get a top of the line video board 'into' a laptop
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[15:11:33] PatrickDK: at the cost of only 8x connectivity
[15:11:39] PatrickDK: instead of x16, or dual x16
[15:11:55] PatrickDK: not that any dual videocard does dual x16, most are x16 + x4
[15:12:03] clever: ive never used pcie so i dont know what that all does:P
[15:12:20] PatrickDK: ok, think of it this way, pcie x1 = agp
[15:12:30] PatrickDK: pcie x16 = agp speed * 16
[15:12:38] clever: lol
[15:13:09] sid3windr: eh?
[15:13:16] sid3windr: not at all
[15:13:20] PatrickDK: I think pcie is equiv to agp 4x speed
[15:13:21] sid3windr: pcie x16 = agp x2
[15:13:29] sid3windr: well
[15:13:32] sid3windr: pcie x16 = 8xagp x2
[15:13:34] sid3windr: actually.
[15:13:37] sid3windr: pcie x1 = pci
[15:13:50] PatrickDK: pcie is not the same speed as pci
[15:13:53] sid3windr: yes, it is
[15:14:32] sid3windr: oh, no, it's not.
[15:14:33] sid3windr: hmmm
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[15:14:41] sid3windr: pcie x1 = almost 2x pci
[15:15:00] sid3windr: but pcie x16 is only twice 8x agp
[15:15:16] PatrickDK: I was never talking abuot 8x agp
[15:15:22] PatrickDK: not i said agp, no 8x
[15:15:24] sid3windr: [28|17:12:17] < PatrickDK> ok, think of it this way, pcie x1 = agp
[15:15:28] sid3windr: hmm
[15:15:31] sid3windr: heh
[15:15:34] sid3windr: you're right
[15:15:34] sid3windr: :)
[15:15:38] ** sid3windr ass-u-me'd ;) **
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[15:15:48] ** sid3windr will retire into lurking once again **
[15:16:06] PatrickDK: and I was confused into normal agp, and 4x agp
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[15:16:11] PatrickDK: cause they have 3 speeds for pcie now
[15:16:21] PatrickDK: normal, 2x, and 4x per channel
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[15:24:47] koenvi: hi al! any belgian MythTV experts in here?
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[15:25:57] koenvi: refrasing the question: anyone with experience in dvb-t and flemish channels?
[15:26:18] sid3windr: yesh
[15:28:26] koenvi: sid3windr, do you use dvb-t in belgium?
[15:28:50] sid3windr: yes
[15:28:58] koenvi: any good?
[15:29:02] sid3windr: sure
[15:29:13] sid3windr: or well, at least it was before I moved
[15:29:23] sid3windr: when I moved I migrated mythtv and I haven't got it working again yet ;)
[15:29:30] koenvi: do I need an external antenna?
[15:29:34] sid3windr: but I live +- 1km from a dvb-t transmitter now so reception should be good ;)
[15:29:44] sid3windr: vrt's site can tell you that
[15:29:47] PatrickDK: yuk
[15:29:57] koenvi: okay, I'll have a look
[15:29:58] sid3windr: do you have one for inside now?
[15:29:58] PatrickDK: it doesn't totally wipe out all other channels you attempt to receive?
[15:30:10] sid3windr: which other channels?
[15:30:15] koenvi: I just ordered ... I'll try that one first and see
[15:30:32] sid3windr: koenvi: basically, if you can see canvas OK with the internal one, should be fine
[15:33:29] koenvi: sid3windr: the vrt site is based on feedback from other users; but there are none for my neighbourhood
[15:33:52] koenvi: so I'll just have to try .. and be the first to feedback
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[15:35:01] sid3windr: :)
[15:35:04] sid3windr: where are you from?
[15:35:05] koenvi: the closest transmitter for me is St-Pieters-Leeuw ... but that is still some 15 to 20 km away
[15:35:21] sid3windr: vrt site also has something on the "if you can see canvas well you're golden" rule though
[15:35:25] sid3windr: I don't remember where :)
[15:35:29] sid3windr: place the antenna near the window in any case
[15:35:42] koenvi: will do .. have 2 go now!
[15:35:48] koenvi: thx already
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[16:01:44] harzi: anykey_: ummen?
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[16:02:19] harzi: anykey_: which pci dvb-c card to buy nowadays?
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[16:31:07] SHADOW__X: hey guys i amhaving issues with mythweather
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[16:31:13] SHADOW__X: i cant setup a location right
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[17:05:13] bmead: any improvements in supporting the hdpvr in mythtv?
[17:06:27] bmead: in the last month or so?
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[17:13:06] abqjp: bmead, there is a channel dedicated to the HD-PVR, #hdpvr
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[17:23:38] SHADOW__X: i put in my zipcode on mythweather but that doesnt work
[17:29:20] wagnerrp: shadow__x: what version of mythweather are you using?
[17:32:29] SHADOW__X: uh the newest how would i check?
[17:32:37] Dagmar: What did you install?
[17:32:41] wagnerrp: i mean, youre running 0.21?
[17:32:42] SHADOW__X: mythbuntu
[17:32:43] Dagmar: 0.21, 0.21-fixes, or trunk?
[17:32:44] SHADOW__X: yeah
[17:32:52] SHADOW__X: .21 i would like to believe
[17:32:57] Dagmar: I have yet to see the new one in fixes work again
[17:33:13] SHADOW__X: hmm
[17:33:18] SHADOW__X: so its an issue with the plugin
[17:33:24] wagnerrp: the one in fixes works fine for me, at least from a few weeks ago
[17:33:34] SHADOW__X: this is from the distro
[17:33:42] SHADOW__X: so i am guessing .21
[17:34:19] wagnerrp: anyway, the old version (0.20) doesnt work, and the old themes dont work with the new mythweather
[17:34:26] SHADOW__X: ah ok
[17:34:28] wagnerrp: besides that, try things other than zip code
[17:34:31] clever: SHADOW__X: mythfrontend --version
[17:34:31] wagnerrp: try local city names
[17:34:34] SHADOW__X: hmm so .21 prob wont work
[17:34:43] wagnerrp: 0.21 works just fine for me
[17:35:33] SHADOW__X: alright
[17:35:46] SHADOW__X: alright
[17:36:17] wagnerrp: if youre used to the mythweather in 0.20, this one functions completely different
[17:36:43] SHADOW__X: i never used .20
[17:37:02] wagnerrp: well then... its still rather counter-intuitive
[17:37:31] SHADOW__X: would something like newark nj be fine or trenton nj
[17:37:44] SHADOW__X: or hwo would i eneter the ifno to search
[17:39:00] wagnerrp: youre in 'Screen Setup' currently?
[17:39:10] SHADOW__X: yes sir
[17:40:01] wagnerrp: i go to 'Current Conditions', type 'Newark', and it gives me two valid results (of four)
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[17:40:30] nuonguy: aacdecoder.cpp:317: error: cannot convert ‘uint32_t*’ to ‘long unsigned int*’ for argument ‘4’ to ‘char NeAACDecInit2(void*, unsigned char*, long unsigned int, long unsigned int*, unsigned char*)’
[17:40:52] wagnerrp: thats when building mythtv?
[17:41:05] nuonguy: mythmusic, to be precise
[17:41:10] Dagmar: I'm guessing this is yet another case of "trunk doesn't always build"
[17:41:28] SHADOW__X: i thought you had to type everything out but ok that isnt bad thanks wagnerrp
[17:42:06] wagnerrp: shadow__x: the search is not very smart, typing too much will cause it to filter out what youre looking for
[17:43:04] SHADOW__X: ah so i have learned thanks
[17:44:35] wagnerrp: now if only mythweather could handle multiple of the same source type
[17:46:31] wagnerrp: it would also be nice if the images were almost full screen, instead of taking up a small corner of it
[17:46:37] wagnerrp: although that may be the theme's fault
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[18:03:13] mkrufky: im shocked
[18:03:21] mkrufky: im in the top 20 kernel developers, i think of all time
[18:03:23] mkrufky: http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/7/28/267
[18:03:30] mkrufky: how could this be possible?
[18:03:38] SHADOW__X: congrats mkrufky
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[18:03:56] mkrufky: im totally dumbfounded
[18:04:07] SHADOW__X: nice
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[18:07:40] GreyFoxx: heheh
[18:08:15] mkrufky: i just posted the link to facebook so that all my friends that i never talk to can know EXACTLY how much of a dork ive become
[18:08:28] mkrufky: :-P
[18:08:31] SHADOW__X: yay
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[18:09:57] mkrufky: oh, btw SHADOW__X and MartinCleaver , those cx23887 bug fix patches are in master now
[18:10:16] mkrufky: the fix for streaming vida vidb and vidc concurrently, etc
[18:10:52] MartinCleaver: does this mean Analog works for the HVR-1800?
[18:10:56] SHADOW__X: ah so hg pull -u should bring me right up with analog
[18:10:59] mkrufky: it always worked
[18:11:01] SHADOW__X: yay sweet thanks mkrufky
[18:11:17] mkrufky: er.. .please pretend i didnt say "always"
[18:11:45] ** MartinCleaver pretends that the wiki never said it doesn't work **
[18:12:12] mkrufky: analog didnt work when stoth first released the cx23885 driver
[18:12:27] mkrufky: (actually, it *did* work, but we had it disabled on purpose, because it sucked)
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[18:12:40] mkrufky: then once we fixed its suckiness, we enabled it by default
[18:12:44] mkrufky: then ~ six months went by
[18:12:49] mkrufky: and we enabled the mpeg encoder
[18:13:02] mkrufky: it should all work
[18:13:17] MartinCleaver: ok – so how do I check which versions I am running?
[18:13:28] mkrufky: (unless you're letting mythtv futz with the encoder settings, like what happened with SHADOW__X's 32 KHz audio)
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[18:13:42] mkrufky: MartinCleaver: i thought you were using the one from linuxtv.org
[18:13:52] Dibblah: Myth always futzes with the encoder settings.
[18:13:55] mkrufky: i recommend that you use the one from linuxtv.org master v4l-dvb branch
[18:13:59] MartinCleaver: I am using something from linuxtv.org
[18:14:07] mkrufky: Dibblah: hmm... that'll be a problem with the hvr1800 then
[18:14:11] MartinCleaver: but I don't think I used the hg
[18:14:17] mkrufky: Dibblah: there is a driver bug.... it will need to be fixed
[18:14:17] Dibblah: There's no way to say in profiles 'just leave it as is'...
[18:14:22] ** mkrufky makes another mental note **
[18:14:23] MartinCleaver: I think I used a zip download
[18:14:51] Dibblah: ISTR default is 48kHz.
[18:15:05] MartinCleaver: v4l-dvb-5ed003809808.tar
[18:15:11] mkrufky: ok, Dibblah ... just FYI, if a user sets audio bitrate to 32KHz, then the stream will just play slowly — it will still get 48Khz, but play it at 32KHz
[18:15:28] Dibblah: Nice.
[18:15:33] mkrufky: Dibblah: hmm, in that case, then the issue is all the user's fault :-P
[18:15:36] ** MartinCleaver installs hg **
[18:15:48] mkrufky: if 48KHz by default, then it should not cause a problem
[18:16:02] Dibblah: That's for HQ, though.
[18:16:11] Dibblah: I think normal too.
[18:16:16] mkrufky: ok
[18:16:27] ** MartinCleaver finds hg is not in any of his repositories for Centos **
[18:16:50] mkrufky: "mercurial" , MartinCleaver
[18:17:39] MartinCleaver: thanks mkrufky
[18:18:41] MartinCleaver: installed
[18:18:58] mkrufky: you're welcome
[18:22:18] MartinCleaver: do I need a 2.6 kernel for this?
[18:22:48] mkrufky: yeah
[18:22:50] MartinCleaver: I have 2.6.18–92
[18:22:55] mkrufky: thats a 2.6 kernel
[18:23:01] mkrufky: meanwhile....
[18:23:06] MartinCleaver: Y, sorry I recalled it wrong!
[18:23:20] mkrufky: i have doubts that v4l-dvb works fine against 2.6.18
[18:23:22] mkrufky: it used to
[18:23:25] mkrufky: and maybe still does
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[18:23:42] mkrufky: ... did you have it working with that kernel prior to today??
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[18:23:58] MartinCleaver: dvb, yes
[18:24:03] MartinCleaver: analog, no
[18:24:09] MartinCleaver: doesn't tune.
[18:24:13] MartinCleaver: fuzzy though
[18:24:18] MartinCleaver: so maybe its supposed to
[18:24:20] mkrufky: did you "modprobe tuner"
[18:24:20] mkrufky: ?
[18:24:36] mkrufky: cx23885 driver does not load "tuner" automatically
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[18:24:48] mkrufky: ...that would explain why u cant tune :-P
[18:24:57] ** MartinCleaver checks **
[18:25:40] MartinCleaver: lsmod | grep tuner returns nothing
[18:25:56] MartinCleaver: ok modprobe
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[18:26:06] MartinCleaver: and then lsmod worked
[18:26:18] mkrufky: nobody cares what lsmod says
[18:26:28] mkrufky: if you load a module, it will show in lsmod, even if it doesnt work
[18:26:45] mkrufky: what _does_ matter is whether or not you see the tuner get attached in dmesg
[18:26:50] MartinCleaver: I thought we were testing whether it had been loaded
[18:27:04] mkrufky: maybe you were ;-)
[18:27:09] mkrufky: i _knew_ it wasnt loaded
[18:27:19] mkrufky: :-P tuning should work for you now
[18:27:31] MartinCleaver: y, so I wanted to check before forcing it!
[18:27:33] MartinCleaver: tuner' 2–0042: chip found @ 0x84 (cx23885[0])
[18:28:22] Dagmar: Man, just because you can load a module doesn't mean a damn thing other than it didn't immediately find a reason to carp and die
[18:28:36] Dagmar: It doesn't even mean you have the right hardware for that module
[18:28:48] Dagmar: Not all of them even check to see if the hardware they're supposed to support is presnet
[18:29:03] clever: Dagmar: some cant precheck, like usb
[18:29:09] clever: and have to stay loaded and waiting
[18:29:16] MartinCleaver: Didn't it tell me whether it loaded on reboot?
[18:29:17] Dagmar: clever: Wrong.
[18:29:37] clever: Dagmar: what if the device isnt even plugged in yet?
[18:29:48] wagnerrp: doesnt mean it cant scan for it
[18:30:00] Dagmar: ...nor does it mean it has to scan for it.
[18:30:04] clever: yes it can try to scan for it but it wont find anything
[18:30:06] Dagmar: That a module loaded means nothing
[18:30:10] ** MartinCleaver runs channel tune **
[18:30:22] clever: i mean the module cant refuse to load if its for usb stuff
[18:30:36] Dagmar: They generally don't refuse to load anyway
[18:30:37] clever: just because of the hotplugable nature of usb
[18:30:50] Dagmar: SOME do, but this is not the same thing as it being required they look
[18:31:01] clever: yeah
[18:31:24] Dagmar: clever: Hot pluggable or not, you're getting your causality messed up. Udev loads any usb driver modules if and when the USB device appears on the bus
[18:31:44] clever: Dagmar: then why doesnt my treo phone work until i manualy modprobe the driver?
[18:31:47] Dagmar: If lsmod reports a module loaded, the only thing this means is something loaded it.
[18:32:03] Dagmar: clever: Because you've broken something
[18:32:18] clever: i never changed it
[18:32:23] Dagmar: clever: I've been using both a Treo and a Palm T|X with libusb rather recently
[18:32:27] clever: the driver came with the kernel in the package system
[18:32:45] Dagmar: clever: If you're using the visor module, that's part of your damn problem.
[18:32:50] Dagmar: That thing is *obsolete*
[18:32:56] clever: yeah thats what i was trying to remember
[18:33:03] clever: visor has to be manualy loaded
[18:33:17] clever: and the word obsolete may explain why it randomly hardlocks the phone and/or computer
[18:33:23] Dagmar: It *will* also *fail* at important points with newer PalmOS PDAs because of changes in the Palm sync mechanism which don't adhere to the spec Palm wrote
[18:33:39] Dagmar: Yeah, blacklist visor.ko or remove it entirely.
[18:33:48] Dagmar: You should be using libusb: mechanisms to access those and then things will work fine.
[18:33:58] clever: i mainly use ppp over it to get the phone online
[18:34:01] Dagmar: You were having to manually load it because udev knew better than you what was goin gon
[18:34:04] clever: sync is imposible also
[18:34:14] clever: the phone 'unplugs' itself halfway thru
[18:34:17] Dagmar: I still gotta convince Patrick Volkerding to fuckin' blacklist the module for several of these new devices
[18:34:24] clever: destroying the comport device that i was connected to
[18:34:33] clever: making it imposible to sync fully
[18:34:39] Dagmar: See, again, it should be using libusb:
[18:34:52] Dagmar: ALl the new pilot-link stuff *that works* uses libusb:
[18:34:54] clever: then why cant any of the sync programs use libusb:P
[18:35:07] clever: and how do i get pppd to use libusb?
[18:35:07] Dagmar: clever: Probably because you're using Little Timmy Linux or something
[18:35:27] Dagmar: How you use pppd with it, frankly is your problem
[18:35:41] clever: i was able to send pppd to the port made by visor
[18:35:47] Dagmar: I'm telling you that for sure you shouldn't expect visor.ko to do anything more than crash a lot on every PalmOS unit made after the Zire 21.
[18:35:48] clever: and accept the connection from the phone
[18:35:54] clever: creating a ppp link between the 2
[18:36:06] clever: then a simple iptables NAT and the phone has 'free' inet
[18:36:19] Dagmar: Using libusb, which does not have the shortcomings visor.ko does, communication shoudl happen properly.
[18:36:39] Dagmar: LIke, here's an example of a "hard and fast" bit of breakage
[18:36:47] clever: all i need is some character based device node
[18:37:04] Dagmar: That photo viewer app they started shipping with the Zires... When it syncs pictures, it sends the whole picture across in one packet
[18:37:15] Dagmar: The PalmOS spec says these packets can't be greater than 64k in size.
[18:37:16] clever: lol
[18:37:38] Dagmar: So, if you try and use it with a Zire 31 or 71, when it gets to synching that photo app, it'll fail
[18:37:51] MartinCleaver: now I just get a blank screen on Analog
[18:37:58] clever: i cant sync anything
[18:38:37] clever: and lately i cant even get pppd thru bluetooth to work either
[18:39:09] sphery: changing libs/libmyth/util.h makes a recompile take forever...
[18:39:16] sphery: I need a faster dev box.
[18:39:33] clever: sphery: distcc helps some
[18:39:41] clever: i spread the load over every frontend
[18:40:01] wagnerrp: seems some google devs broke free and started a... gasp... search engine
[18:40:17] sphery: yeah, I'm not using that currently (don't like the idea of running a distcc server on a bunch of machines)
[18:40:47] Dagmar: clever: Seriously, install libusb and KPilot or JPilot (whichever you want to try with) and they should sync like magic
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[18:41:17] clever: kpilot_3.5.7enterprise20070926–0ubuntu2_i386.deb
[18:41:22] clever: Dagmar: might that be too old?
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[18:41:51] Dagmar: clever: Only if you're deliberately using some ancient repository
[18:42:03] clever: or using the defaults of ubuntu 7.10
[18:42:05] Dagmar: Oh, and they don't really mention this up front, and I found it baffling so I'll just say it to you...
[18:42:25] Dagmar: For the device name to access, if you're using libusb: you don't tell it /dev/ttyUSB0, you tell it "libusb:"
[18:42:27] Dagmar: No joke.
[18:42:39] Dagmar: Don't ask how it finds the device or gets permission.
[18:42:44] clever: lol
[18:42:51] Dagmar: I know I don't want to know, and you probably don't either.
[18:43:00] Dagmar: I like being able to sleep at night.
[18:43:07] clever: sounds about as obvious as using alsa: instead of /dev/dsp in mythtv sound config
[18:43:32] sphery: teprrr: It's about time someone Finnished the translations. They've been working on those for a long time... ;)
[18:44:48] Dagmar: sphery: s/.*$/\1 bork bork bork/g;
[18:44:53] Dagmar: No wait, that's Swedish
[18:45:06] sphery: :)
[18:45:33] sutula: Anyone have a recommendation for a motherboard for an inexpensive mythfrontend, something with integrated graphics that includes s-video or coax TV out? (Not for HD stuff) Or am I better off buying a cheap graphics card?
[18:46:06] sphery: For a frontend, I'm a believer in discrete graphics.
[18:46:25] sphery: (Even a $20 NVIDIA card or something works great.)
[18:46:34] Dagmar: sutula: Look at my user page on wiki.mythtv.org
[18:46:45] ** sutula nods to both **
[18:47:18] Dagmar: No S-video, but just about any nVidia PCI card should work,
[18:47:33] Dagmar: MX440's are cheap as hell
[18:47:40] clever: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 MX 440] (rev a3)
[18:47:50] sphery: clever: what makes the long recompile seem to take even longer is that I've already found 3 typos in the patch...
[18:47:51] clever: that works fine for me(tv svideo vga out)
[18:48:00] clever: sphery: ouch
[18:48:23] sphery: at least they're not in util.{h,cpp}, so the re-recompile will go fast
[18:48:31] sphery: just itchin' to fix 'em
[18:49:04] teprrr: sphery, how's that? though those aren't Finnished yet, but a lot better than the old ones used to be :)
[18:49:28] sphery: GreyFoxx: are you doing a MythGame mythui conversion?
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[18:49:42] Dagmar: sutula: You probably actually don't want a card old enough to have the single RCA composite output
[18:49:51] teprrr: sphery, at least mythtv's finnish translators don't take a part of our Finnish OSS translators project, or at least I haven't seen it anyways :P
[18:49:54] sphery: teprrr: I guess we'll never be Finnished, then.
[18:50:20] Dagmar: sphery: Have you considered using Google Translator on the text?
[18:50:22] wagnerrp: yeah, just about anything made in the last 6 years is going to either have s-video, or a breakout box
[18:50:23] teprrr: sphery, hehe, translations won't usually be never completed.. just like software
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[18:51:12] sutula: Dagmar: OK...I was looking at the ASUS M3A78-EM being discussed Friday as it looks like something nice for the future, but will have to connect it to an old TV for now
[18:51:18] teprrr: and I don't count "let's translate this to that even though it doesn't work this way to get better stats" method in for translation stuff :P
[18:51:24] bsdfox_: I also use an mx440 without issue
[18:52:24] wagnerrp: ive got a 440 floating around somewhere, worked fine with mythtv last time i tried
[18:52:34] sphery: Dagmar: that could make for some confused users... Thinking of the OSD saying things like, "Recreate" or "Halt" or ... :)
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[18:52:59] Dagmar: sphery: I bet you the first Finn reading those would be quick to pipe up with corrections tho
[18:53:03] bsdfox_: I have a pci mx440 too :D
[18:53:27] ** sutula thinks the mx440 wins the popularity contest **
[18:53:46] sphery: Dagmar: yeah, teprrr actually just did a bunch of the Finnish translations and I was just purposefully mis-interpreting the word "Finnish" (as finish).
[18:53:47] Dagmar: sutula: It looks like that ASUS's boards main pros are Displayport (if you actually have something that uses that, and they're STILL rare) and that it has a customizable boot logo
[18:54:02] Dagmar: I have yet to find a way to even shoehorn that featuer into ASRock boards
[18:54:03] wagnerrp: everyone had an MX440, but that doesnt make it anything less then (functional) crap
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[18:54:25] sphery: wagnerrp: that requires the use of the legacy NVIDIA drivers
[18:54:28] Dagmar: I'm seriously considering breaking the BIOS cutter out and taking another shot at it now that I know this ASUS board has it
[18:55:28] sphery: Nice. I want DisplayPort. (I want it on my TV, though, instead of HDMI.)
[18:55:32] teprrr: Dagmar, sphery :)
[18:55:43] teprrr: what's the point of using displayport instead of hdmi?
[18:55:50] teprrr: what are the pros I mean :P
[18:55:57] wagnerrp: its an open standard isnt it?
[18:56:00] sphery: mainly HDMI licensing
[18:56:00] Dagmar: teprr: If you bought a TV with a displayport connector
[18:56:10] Dagmar: Actually, that damn ASUS board doesn't have a serial port
[18:56:13] sphery: Dagmar: they're making those, now?
[18:56:20] Dagmar: Considering I use a serial IR dongle, that would be a dealbreaker for me
[18:56:24] Dagmar: Sphery: Not that I've seen, no
[18:56:26] sutula: Dagmar: Good catch...that's a problem!
[18:56:41] Dagmar: Yowza that board is more expensive than the ASRock one I bought too
[18:56:42] teprrr: ahh, okies. my telly has only hdmi in it :/
[18:57:04] sphery: too bad. I'm guessing that DisplayPort will mainly exist on monitors and TV's will never get it (getting HDMI, instead)
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[18:57:34] wagnerrp: well TVs got VGA and DVI, why not DisplayPort?
[18:57:47] Dagmar: sutula: You begin to see why I quickly doc'd up what I bought this last round at http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/User:Dagmar_d%27Surreal
[18:58:17] Dagmar: wagnerrp: I'm guessing because of Sony lawyers standing around waiting to sue and/or create "torturous interference"
[18:59:51] sphery: yep
[18:59:52] teprrr: btw, anyone here familiar with lcdproc devs? any ideas why dm140 is not included inside their tarballs? because of separate control libs?
[19:00:36] wagnerrp: ive got a friend whos going to be one of those types in a few weeks
[19:00:54] wagnerrp: starts the bar tomorrow
[19:01:35] sutula: Dagmar: I appreciate your list...thanks
[19:02:43] Dagmar: It's no problem at all
[19:04:22] teprrr: hrm. is it possible to change a channel to be "commercial free" without shutting down the backend? or do I need to reach mythtv-setup for that?
[19:04:31] bsdfox_: Dagmar: fwiw, I dunno if lirc will be happy but you can get rs232-usb adapters for <$5 on ebay
[19:04:47] bsdfox_: or if you wanna do it low level you can get USB-TTL chips for about the same
[19:05:16] Dagmar: bsdfox: The "win" here is that the serial port isn't built into the ATX connector bundle
[19:05:35] Dagmar: It's actually a 9-pin header on the board you can connect to inside the case
[19:05:42] bsdfox_: oh that's cool
[19:05:53] Dagmar: Yep. No more funky lookin' bit of plastic sticking out
[19:06:38] Dagmar: I pretty much looked at every single board NewEgg, Mwave, and TigerDirect had
[19:06:44] Dagmar: Like, individually.
[19:06:50] Dagmar: Not just with the search engine
[19:06:52] Dagmar: Hehe
[19:07:04] Dagmar: Yay for Full Throttle or that would have put me in a coma
[19:08:48] sphery: Didn't realize you were a fan of Charlie's Angels (specifically, the 2003 movie, Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle)...
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[19:09:05] Dagmar: Haha no.
[19:09:16] Dagmar: http://www.fullthrottleenergy.com/index.jsp
[19:09:39] Dagmar: They have a mocha not listed on the site that is delicious
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[19:09:48] Dagmar: ...and more caffiene than "normal" iced coffee.
[19:09:52] Dagmar: VROOM VROOM!!
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[19:13:23] sutula: Dagmar: The Iguana only for receiving?
[19:15:33] iamlindoro_: sutula: iguanaworks units send and receive
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[19:16:06] ** sutula is puzzled about what he'd want to "send", and is looking to be educated **
[19:16:36] iamlindoro_: Lots of devices (amps, Set top boxes, etc) need to be controlled via IR
[19:16:49] ** sutula nods...thanks **
[19:16:59] ere4si: mythfrontend closes with a segmentation fault if I use it for playback works ok otherwise – is that missing libs or similar?
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[19:17:36] GreyFoxx: ere: not likely
[19:17:43] GreyFoxx: what are you trying to play when that happens?
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[19:18:11] ere4si: GreyFoxx: either recordings or live tv
[19:19:02] GreyFoxx: can you see anything at the end of your logs? Both frontend and backend ?
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[19:25:26] high-rez: lindoro: Did you say you had an HD-PVR some day pervious ?
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[19:27:37] ere4si: sorry got cutoff – where did we get to?
[19:28:13] high-rez: it's prolly not a lib... What does it say right before the segfault?
[19:28:20] ere4si: nothing in backend – can't find a frontend log – mythfrontend -v playback ends with opening audio then seg fault
[19:28:33] clever: mythfrontend -v most
[19:28:45] ere4si: k
[19:30:04] MartinCleaver: Apart from hacking the database is there another way to clear out _NO_TITLE_ entries in the recorded program list?
[19:31:07] clever: MartinCleaver: hit the right arrow on one of the recordings and go down thru 'recording options' then 'change recording title'
[19:32:02] MartinCleaver: thx. will try, clever
[19:32:18] sutula: Anyone know if the eDATA DEC-200B is usable? Not listed at lirc.org. (combo deal at NewEgg :) )
[19:32:29] ere4si: http://pastebin.ca/1085517 – ends with disabling audio – seg fault
[19:33:25] clever: ere4si: mythfrontend -v all will show more details
[19:33:42] clever: i cant see anything obvious in that pastebin
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[19:35:17] ere4si: clever: I can't find a clue anywhere except one post someewhere that mention seg faults and libs
[19:35:32] clever: missing libs wont make it segfault
[19:35:39] ere4si: mythfrontend -v all tells nothing more
[19:35:44] Dagmar: Missing libs will make it never run to begin with
[19:35:44] clever: most programs will refuse to start if the libs are missing
[19:35:52] clever: yep
[19:36:19] ere4si: clever: yep ok – that was the closest to a clue I could stumble upon
[19:36:36] clever: ulimit -c unlimited; mythfrontend -v most
[19:36:42] Dagmar: One of those first things the OS does when you try to start an ELF binary is to look at the list of what shared libs it says it needs (`man readelf`) and make sure they're either cached or somewhere known. If it can't find any of them it'll just say "command not found" and pretend the file isn't executable
[19:36:47] clever: it should now leave a coredump
[19:37:13] clever: Dagmar: i find that the linux kernel doesnt do that on its own, its the ld.so that does all that work
[19:37:33] Dagmar: clever: The kernel is not the sole component in "operating system"
[19:37:37] clever: yeah
[19:37:53] clever: but everything below that is mostly the distro then the kernel
[19:38:58] ere4si: http://pastebin.ca/1085523 – looks the same to me
[19:39:06] Dagmar: ...but you're right in that it's the linker that's doing that particular bit
[19:39:39] clever: ere4si: line 12 is different
[19:39:45] Dagmar: ere4si: If setting it to make a coredump affected the way the program behaved, it would become nearly impossible to properly troubleshoot
[19:39:46] clever: its saying it left a core file this time
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[19:39:54] clever: by default its called 'core' in the current dir
[19:40:00] ere4si: clever: :)
[19:40:14] clever: now just open that up with gdb and get a backtrace
[19:40:50] clever: gdb mythfrontend core
[19:40:53] ere4si: clever: gdb? – I'm new to that
[19:40:58] ere4si: k
[19:41:50] ere4si: gdb is not installed – I gotta go to work thanks for now :)
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[19:42:04] keith4: ...
[19:42:17] clever: some people have there priorities 'wrong'
[19:42:19] keith4: shortest. attention. span. ever
[19:42:24] Dagmar: Translation: "Now just take your quantum spammer and rebrobdingate the calibratory hyperaxiallator."
[19:42:33] Dagmar: clever: Dude. Not everyone can read gdb output.
[19:43:02] clever: i avoid sleep as much as posible:P
[19:43:14] clever: Dagmar: but they can still put it on pastebin
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[19:52:02] sphery: Hmmm. If you forget to make install, the patch you're testing has no effect...
[19:52:54] Dagmar: heh
[19:53:15] clever: sphery: i often skip that when moding just 1 lib
[19:53:27] clever: LD_PRELOAD=./libmythtv... mythfrontend
[19:53:49] clever: faster dev work
[19:57:56] Dagmar: Don't do that
[19:58:02] Dagmar: Just trust me on this.
[19:58:33] clever: it works perfectly fine when my patch only affects 1 lib
[19:58:51] clever: and i allways test it after a normal make install once im shure it works
[19:59:01] Dagmar: Dude, you really need to start using a packaging system for this stuff.
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[19:59:37] clever: switching from a shared --prefix to a .deb would cause some problems
[19:59:41] Dagmar: I just rebuilt bind over here. Know what I typed? ./build bind && installpkg-mine bind
[20:00:08] sid3windr: bind ;/
[20:00:37] clever: i have 422mb free on / of my media slave backend
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[20:00:43] clever: the --prefix for mythtv is 542mb
[20:00:45] Dagmar: Doing this i can be sure that I *didn't* do anything different this time from the last time
[20:00:55] Dagmar: ...and I can be sure that what behaviours I see are what I will see in production.
[20:01:11] clever: i wrote a couple scripts which will svn update configure and make the whole mythtv tree
[20:01:12] Dagmar: There can be no suprises from the linker, or due to things being not as they are in "production".
[20:02:17] MartinCleaver: what firewall entries need to be made to make mythfrontend run on a mac frontend to a linux backend?
[20:02:36] Dagmar: No more than what you'd do for a Linux frontend and backend
[20:02:47] clever: i was goign to say that:P
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[20:03:32] MartinCleaver: Q: what firewall entries need to be made to make mythfrontend talk to a backend?
[20:03:45] MartinCleaver: ;)
[20:03:47] Dagmar: MartinCleaver: The ones for the ports it's binding to
[20:03:59] Dagmar: I'm not about to do your research for you and type in a bunch of iptables lines.
[20:03:59] clever: which can be viewed/change in mythtv-setup on the backend
[20:04:02] GreyFoxx: Are they on the same lan with each other ?
[20:04:04] Dagmar: This isn't hard, acutally.
[20:04:09] MartinCleaver: yes, same lan
[20:04:11] Dagmar: Type this... `netstat -tunap | grep myth`'
[20:04:24] Dagmar: That will show you which ports everything with "myth" in the name is binding to
[20:04:32] Cyrano-Octavious: anyone know how to setup mythtv for DLNA devices?
[20:04:50] Dagmar: You really *should* learn this little bit, because it makes pretty much all subsequent problems with knowing what iptables rules to allow trivial to fix.
[20:04:58] GreyFoxx: Cyra: Just ensure the backends IP is set to an externally reachable IP in mtyhtv-setup
[20:04:59] MartinCleaver: thanks Dagmar – much appreciated
[20:05:01] GreyFoxx: and not to localhost
[20:05:04] teprrr: hmm, anyone using multiple mythtv installations parallelly?
[20:05:17] MartinCleaver: ah, thanks GreyFoxx
[20:05:23] GreyFoxx: tepr: You mean slave backends or completely seperate masters?
[20:05:53] wagnerrp: i assume separate masters
[20:06:29] teprrr: GreyFoxx, having two installation of both frontend and backend on the same computer
[20:06:31] clever: or several masters on a system:P
[20:06:34] wagnerrp: Cryano-Octavious: there is no setup for DNLA devices, they just work
[20:06:39] teprrr: one for stable, one for trunk version
[20:06:43] GreyFoxx: tep: I have multiple frontends running on a single box
[20:06:50] GreyFoxx: but not multiple backends on 1 machine
[20:06:59] clever: teprrr: try seperate --prefix's and diff usernames
[20:07:00] GreyFoxx: all using the same database/backends
[20:07:14] wagnerrp: well, either they just work, or they dont work and you have to wait for upnp support to be updated
[20:07:34] clever: seperate usernames keeps the PATH's from overlaping
[20:07:41] clever: and seperates the ~/.mythtv/mysql.txt
[20:07:44] Cyrano-Octavious: @wagnerrp kk thanks
[20:07:45] GreyFoxx: Cyran: The biggestestproblem you might run into that you can control is the setting of the backend IP on your master backend in mythtv-setup
[20:07:47] MartinCleaver: It's got ip addresses in the myth-setup – can it use a hostname instead?
[20:07:54] teprrr: clever, that's what I'm doing atm. for some reason trunk's mythbackend reads settings from /etc/mythtv/mysql.txt instead of from the user's homedir
[20:07:55] GreyFoxx: Martin: I don't beleive so
[20:08:02] GreyFoxx: not in 0.21-fixes or earlier
[20:08:10] clever: teprrr: it goes thru several locatiosn for mysql.txt
[20:08:18] MartinCleaver: where does it say the version number?
[20:08:18] clever: teprrr: just delete/move the one in /etc/mythtv/
[20:08:31] GreyFoxx: tep: ~user/.mythtv/mysql.txt always overrides other locations
[20:08:53] wagnerrp: MartinCleaver: if you were using something newer than 0.21-fixes, you would have done so deliberately
[20:09:31] MartinCleaver: In that case I am not
[20:09:32] MartinCleaver: but
[20:09:37] teprrr: GreyFoxx, yup, that's what I was thinking too.. need to take another look at it
[20:09:45] MartinCleaver: shouldn't it say on setup front page?
[20:09:58] GreyFoxx: mythfrontend --version or mythbackend --version
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[20:10:45] MartinCleaver: setup very helpfully tells me today's time
[20:10:53] MartinCleaver: ;)
[20:10:59] teprrr: ahh, it's working now.. hmm, odd :)
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[20:11:47] clever: teprrr: only problem i can think of after all that is that ldconfig may not keep the libs seperate
[20:12:08] clever: and compiling may link to the wrong one
[20:12:21] clever: i had some plugins linking to a 0.20 that was still in my lib dir
[20:12:29] clever: had 2–3 full sets of libs
[20:12:40] clever: old versions didnt go away when i upgraded
[20:12:57] clever: Dagmar: and yes using packages would solve that problem
[20:14:02] clever: the problem is basicaly i need to make uninstall before i svn update
[20:14:04] Dagmar: So like, "man up" on the problem and knock out a whle migratory group with one stone
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[20:14:21] clever: which then totaly kills the whole myth network for the entire hour of compiling
[20:14:30] clever: with no fast way to restore the working binarys
[20:15:36] clever: im thinking i could rename the whole prefix to move it out of sight and have a clean one each time
[20:15:53] clever: but ive also got a few other programs installed there now because i thought it may help to share them
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[20:19:23] teprrr: oh well, any ideas how can I find out the settings for already tuned channels?
[20:19:55] sphery: Wow. I'm having one of those days. It turns out that when you forget to apply the patch you're testing, it has no effect, either.
[20:20:03] clever: lol
[20:21:30] teprrr: ah, messed up my database then.. well well :)
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[20:23:31] sphery: teprrr: you need 2 DB's to go back and forth from -fixes to trunk
[20:25:48] clever: yep
[20:26:36] teprrr: sphery, yup, I do have.. ubuntu's hacks for the stable installation made that mess I think
[20:27:16] sphery: Ah, yeah. Packages + self-compiles makes a mess.
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[20:28:19] teprrr: ahh great, their backend's initscript is, hrmm, not so fine grained..
[20:28:35] MartinCleaver: Ok – so I can telnet to port 6543 on my myth backend server
[20:28:46] MartinCleaver: but, frontend on the mac doesn't work
[20:28:58] MartinCleaver: doesn't seem to try very hard
[20:29:13] MartinCleaver: as when I telnet I get an error message in the backend console output
[20:29:25] clever: MartinCleaver: you also need the mysql port open
[20:30:04] MartinCleaver: I turned off the firewall on both machines
[20:30:22] clever: cant do much to fix it without an error msg
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[20:31:16] MartinCleaver: ah. WHost 'stardust' is not allowed to connect to this MySQL serverConnection closed by foreign host.
[20:31:35] MartinCleaver: mysql has a filter
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[20:32:21] MartinCleaver: somewhere
[20:32:41] sid3windr: it's in the grants
[20:32:45] sid3windr: hostmask is also there per user
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[20:38:33] MartinCleaver: gotta do some work
[20:38:46] Dagmar: For this stuff, the MySQL documentation actually isn't impossible to deal with
[20:39:22] MartinCleaver: Does myth-setup have the means to set up a remote client?
[20:39:35] Dagmar: eh? Not really.
[20:39:47] Dagmar: You basically run it on the same machine as the backend
[20:39:56] Dagmar: Export the DISPLAY or not, as you choose
[20:40:08] MartinCleaver: I have mythfrontend for the mac
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[20:40:23] MartinCleaver: but you are right, I could run using DISPLAY
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[20:41:28] Dagmar: What the frontends do basically has next to nothing to do with what mythtv-setup does. Even less so now that uPnP has come into play for *finding* backends
[20:42:57] MartinCleaver: setting up a frontend is not a role for myth-setup?
[20:43:14] MartinCleaver: I agree it doesn't do it now
[20:43:20] Dagmar: DId you happen to notice anything in there that looked like it had anything to do with frontend operation?
[20:43:33] MartinCleaver: operation, no
[20:43:44] MartinCleaver: authorization however, is setup
[20:43:51] MartinCleaver: I'd have thought, anyway
[20:44:08] Dagmar: Not in the way you'd think
[20:45:04] MartinCleaver: its not "setup"? I know its not a "configure TV hardware" setup, but isn't it still setup?
[20:45:19] Dagmar: All the frontend really does is talk to the backend.
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[20:45:49] Dagmar: ...since hte backend pretty much lets *anything* talk to it, what's to set up?
[20:46:14] Dibblah: Argh. Note to self: Myth still needs qt3compat :)
[20:46:15] MartinCleaver: mysql doesn't let just anything talk to it
[20:46:28] MartinCleaver: mysql allows localhost to talk to it
[20:46:52] Dagmar: That varies depending on the default your _distribtion_ uses
[20:47:01] Dagmar: Some disable TCP sockets by default.
[20:47:10] Dagmar: well, disable all networking by default.
[20:47:19] Dagmar: Note that 'localhost' is a *special name* for MySQL.
[20:47:34] Dagmar: If you tell it to talk to something at 'localhost' it does *not* use the resolver to find 127.0.0.1
[20:47:50] Dagmar: It will instead use a unix domain socket, which is *not* part of the networking stack
[20:48:05] Dagmar: well, the ethernet networking stuff anyway but you get the idea
[20:48:07] Dagmar: It's not IP based
[20:48:13] MartinCleaver: understood
[20:48:46] MartinCleaver: if anything was to set up these factors it would be myth-setup
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[20:50:29] Dagmar: when I wrote http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview the frontend definitely talked to the database, but I don't know for sure if it does anymore
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[20:50:39] kormoc: it still does
[20:50:49] kormoc: but it can get database connection info via UPnP these days
[20:50:53] bradd: hmm..does "allow channel jumping in guide" no longer work? i have it checked in the config but when i try channel jumping it doesnt work...i edited the keybindings to remove the 0,3,6,9 stuff in the frontend config...any tips?
[20:51:37] Dagmar: kormoc: That's the backend telling it about the databse tho, right?
[20:51:51] Dagmar: I haven't noticed anythging in MySQL about it runnign a uPnP advertiser
[20:52:53] teprrr: hmm, can I somewhat easily copy channels from an installation to another?
[20:53:20] teprrr: channels.conf perhaps? seems like the channel searcher is not working in the trunk atm :)
[20:53:47] teprrr: Dagmar, localhost can be resolved with mysql.. but I doubt that's the case in here :)
[20:54:01] kormoc: Dagmar, Aye, the backend tells the FE how to conenct directly to the server
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[21:04:00] sutula: Is there somewhere in the wiki (or anywhere else) that explains transcoding to the novice like http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Playback_profiles does for playback profiles?
[21:04:25] Dagmar: teprr: It's not a matter of "can't". It's a matter of "won't".
[21:04:36] Dagmar: MySQL considers 'localhost' to be a reserved name
[21:05:07] Dagmar: People tend to get freaked out because they can't connect to it by telnetting to 127.0.0.1
[21:05:26] Dagmar: ...when it's simply not listening on that interface.
[21:05:51] Dagmar: sutula: Transcoding is not a subject that can be reduced to anything even close to that simple.
[21:06:27] Dagmar: sutula: Basically, you have to know about almost all the various aspects of what a video can be before you can begin to learn how to tell the tools to convert it to someething else without seriously messing it uo
[21:06:57] sutula: Dagmar: That's what it seems like...OK...bedtime reading :)
[21:07:23] Dagmar: The transcoding tools have NO problem at all transcoding a video into something 16 pixels wide and nine pixels high, or with the bandwidth that can go across a 14.4k modem if you mess up
[21:08:12] Dagmar: sutula: Just the concept of "telecine" and "pulldown" and "comb filters" is one night's reading for most people
[21:08:24] sutula: My meager experimentation suggests that different programs respond differently, depending on the source content itself
[21:08:35] sutula: (also)
[21:08:36] Dagmar: A lot of swearing is considered a normal reaction.
[21:09:28] sutula: So the basic approach is to transcode something, then see how it looks? You get better at guessing/understanding over time. :)
[21:09:35] Dagmar: sutula: Wikipedia is actually very helpful in explaining much of it
[21:09:47] Dagmar: I recommend the following:
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[21:10:29] Dagmar: Step #1: Identify all the "players", namely learn to spot the difference between a codec, a frame, an aspect ratio, a container format, and pixel resolution terminology. Don't worry about their relation to each other.
[21:11:00] Dagmar: Step #2: Figure out how to use one or possibly two (I recommend mencoder) CLI tools to tell you _what the hell_ your video files are actually composed of.
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[21:11:54] Dagmar: Step #3: Attack the problem of figuring out how to tell one of the trancoding tools what format you want something to *be* in, and the few leftover bits that you'll hopefully have already come across (like comb filters and telecine) will hopefully "click" into place in your head then
[21:12:13] Dagmar: ...cuz you're generally going to have to tell the transcoders *all* of this most of the time
[21:12:45] Dagmar: What the file is, what you want it to be, and how you want it to get from A->B because they do NOT make very intelligent decisions on their own when faced with anything out of the ordinary
[21:13:44] ** sutula is appreciative of the help...thanks **
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[21:23:03] Nido: I can't watch TV with MythTV. It works fine in tvtime though so I guess it's a configuration issue. I checked the database and "dvt_multiplex" table is empty and the "channel" table has a lot of entries
[21:23:26] Nido: any ideas? This is mythtv on ubuntu hardy. I've got an SAA tuner, in case it matters
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[21:33:40] teprrr: Dagmar, umh, afaik you can force mysql to use socket connection on localhost too.. but perhaps you have to use 127.0.0.1 with it, can't be sure about it
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[21:40:19] Dagmar: teprrr: Dude... "localhost" and "127.0.0.1" are different things. I can't really make that any clearer.
[21:40:32] Dagmar: One's an IP address, the other is generally assumed to be a hostname
[21:40:44] sid3windr: or in mysql's case, a socket :)
[21:40:50] sid3windr: ("file")
[21:40:54] Dagmar: localhost does not always resolve to 127.0.0.1 anyway so you can't assume it
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[21:46:12] Dagmar: Heck, in a rather common case, localhost might resolve to an IPv6 address even
[21:46:15] teprrr: Dagmar, yes, I know..
[21:46:38] teprrr: but still, iirc you can use resolving for "localhost" for mysql
[21:47:35] teprrr: no idea why anyone would like to do that though :P
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[21:50:14] Dagmar: teprr: Advanced brain degeneration caused by syphillus is my guess
[21:50:19] Dagmar: Take a look a this
[21:50:19] Dagmar: http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=31577
[21:50:33] Dagmar: This Marc Perkel guy really needs some penicillin.
[21:51:05] Dagmar: He's calling ssh to wrapper a tunnel from the unix socket to the tcp socket
[21:51:14] Dagmar: EPIC FAIL.
[21:51:59] Dagmar: Hostnames are not allowed to specify protocols. Period. End of story.
[21:52:04] Dagmar: This is why even trying that fails.
[21:52:09] kormoc: ha
[21:52:19] kormoc: just set the host to 127.0.0.1...
[21:52:21] Dagmar: You can take your pick from what the resolver tells you, but that's as far as that goes
[21:52:33] Dagmar: So, for something to assume 'localhost' means a direct unix socket is not technically wrong
[21:52:45] Dagmar: ...becuase localhost has a fixed meaning.
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[21:55:40] sid3windr: upon reading the bug I wonder why people think this is a change from previous mysql versions
[21:55:44] sid3windr: esp. the last comment
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[21:55:56] sid3windr: "ow can you claim that you can't revert it for backwards compatibility reasons when this
[21:55:59] sid3windr: change broke backwards compatibility with tons of systems that relied on the fact that
[21:56:02] sid3windr: --host=localhost meant to generate a TCP connection to localhost, like every other program
[21:56:05] sid3windr: does and mysql did forever previously?"
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[21:56:36] sid3windr: meh @ fixed formatting inserting newlines in a 1-line paste — sorry 'bout that ;)
[21:58:38] Dagmar: sid3windr: Becuase these people are upset that their ugly hacks broke, and want to find some way to complain about it
[21:59:05] Dagmar: No one in their right mind runs multiple copies of the same DB, but differing versions* on the same machine at the same time
[21:59:14] Dagmar: ...and that's the only way that could break.
[21:59:44] Dagmar: It's no better than all those wanks on the gaming forums wailing endlessly about "Class X is overpowered! nerf them!"
[22:01:01] Dagmar: They're basically all jackasses for not just using the name "thismachine" and putting an entry of 127.0.0.1 in /etc/hosts if they want TCP that badly
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[22:02:44] Aval0n: hey guys if your file system fills up from recording does myth start deleting old recordings?
[22:02:47] Aval0n: automatically?
[22:03:52] Dagmar: Aval0n: Yes.
[22:03:56] jams: Aval0n- yes if you allow it to. Often it picks the recording you wanted to keep
[22:03:59] teprrr: Dagmar, ahh, nice one :)
[22:04:13] Dagmar: teprr: I mean, look at the original complaint...
[22:04:13] Dagmar: "I am trying to move the MySQL DB from the main web server to another server. There are
[22:04:14] Dagmar: hundreds of applications that would take forever to find and reconfigure. Stuff set up by
[22:04:14] Dagmar: other people. So what I want to do is remove MySQL and put it on another machine and use
[22:04:15] Dagmar: and SSH tunnel to connect them."
[22:04:26] Dagmar: Wow. Evil embedded newlines
[22:05:02] Aval0n: lol
[22:05:25] Dagmar: Translation: "We have no idea what the hell our previous engineers who no longer work here did to hard-wire hostnames into their code, so we want to continue being ignorant about how the system actually works, and try to shim localhost to actually be a connection to a machine on another part of the network"
[22:05:43] Dagmar: Why fix it when you can fuck it up worse?
[22:06:11] Dagmar: One hack in a professional environment is highly questionable.
[22:06:24] Dagmar: Building another hack on top of that is something they should just shoot you for.
[22:07:12] Dagmar: Stuff like that is _exactly_ how you get flaming computers falling from the sky when the year rolls over.
[22:09:14] teprrr: Dagmar, yeah, sounds great ;)
[22:09:56] teprrr: and urf, if he is pointing localhost to some other machine it may break other applications..
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[22:12:59] Dagmar: teprr: Not to mention be incredibly wrong
[22:13:20] sphery: localhosed
[22:13:49] teprrr: ye
[22:14:03] teprrr: hrrm, tuning fails for reason or another on current trunk :/
[22:14:23] Dagmar: One must follow these little procedures and principles carefully..
[22:14:43] Dagmar: Else one will wind up wondering why the hell some people can reach say, 2600.nashville.tn.us and some people can't.
[22:15:25] iamlindoro_: Works for me (tm)
[22:17:00] Dagmar: Yeah, well, it took me awhile to realize a lot of resolvers took the "THOU SHALT NOT MAKE A HOSTNAME ACTUALLY A NUMBER" at face value and did a check like [0–9]*\..+\..+\..+ to decide if one needs to call the resolver
[22:17:09] Dagmar: s/resolver/apps/
[22:17:31] iamlindoro_: I meant tuning in trunk, not the MySQL stuff :)
[22:17:43] Dagmar: So, since "2600.nashville.tn.us" starts with a number, and has three dots, a lot of stuff assumed it was an IP addrss and would fail on the spot.
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[22:22:58] alexvd_: hello I have an issue with one of my pchdtv card that has only happened recently. Running mythbuntu backend and periodically the card will get a no signal lock error when trying to watch live tv. The other capture cards work fine to record but only if I reboot the box will it start working again. I get a log error error of DVBSignalMonitor(2)::constructor(5,Warning, can not meas
[22:22:58] alexvd_: ure S/N): Remote I/O error
[22:22:58] alexvd_: 2008-07–28 18:18:09.513 MythSocket(81d1b98:-1): writeStringList: Error, socket w
[22:22:58] alexvd_: ent unconnected.
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[22:51:08] teprrr: hrm, what on earth may cause FE_SET_FRONTEND to fail with invalid argument 22? any ideas? :P
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[22:53:57] teprrr: may be symbol rate problem.. oddly enough that code hasn't changed since 0.21 where it's working ok
[22:54:37] Fen_Star: can anyone help me with a redirect error problem when I try to view livetv in mythweb?
[22:55:55] sphery: teprrr: differing dvb lib versions used for the compiles?
[22:57:35] Dagmar: Redirect error?
[22:57:40] Dagmar: You're going to have to be more specific than that
[22:57:55] Dagmar: ...especially sincce mythweb doesn't do LiveTV.
[22:58:20] Fen_Star: well, then that is most likley my problem, lol
[22:58:32] Dagmar: Well, there you go.  :)
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[23:08:13] wesw02: I've been using mythtv for about 2 years and in that time it has always recorded mpg files, last night I noticed it was recording nuv files instead and that the files were only about 4Kb in size and don't contain any video, I did an upgrade hoping to fix the issue, but it still presists
[23:08:23] wesw02: any one have any idea why my video is not being saved
[23:08:30] Dagmar: Something changed.
[23:08:37] Dagmar: Check the backend logs
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[23:09:49] wesw02: i see the following error " NVP::OpenFile(): Error, couldn't read file: /mnt/hdd0/MythTV/1066_20080728190000.nuv"
[23:09:53] wesw02: a few times
[23:10:08] wesw02: I don't understand why it can create the file, but it can't read it
[23:10:38] wesw02: it owns the file
[23:10:48] wesw02: by it I mean the mythtv user
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[23:11:19] Dagmar: It'll be saying somethign more than that
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[23:13:13] wesw02: perhaps this: " NVR(/dev/v4l/video0): Won't work with the streaming interface, falling back"
[23:13:17] wesw02: that is only once
[23:13:26] wesw02: the other error repeats a few times
[23:13:35] wesw02: How about I paste the tail
[23:13:37] Dagmar: So that would indicate a hardware problem
[23:13:39] Dagmar: Check the syslog
[23:14:01] Dagmar: If a poweroff didn't fix it, and your kernel wasn't somehow mangled, it's likely you're just the proud new owner of a dead card
[23:14:31] wesw02: it works if I mplayer /dev/v4l/video0
[23:15:26] wesw02: and mythtv correctly turned the tuner to the right channel
[23:16:43] wesw02: here is my log
[23:16:43] wesw02: http://pastebin.ca/1085721
[23:16:54] Dagmar: That means you get to hunt for what possibly changed in your MythTV configuration.
[23:17:06] Dagmar: The first step of which would be to back up your database, and then nuke it and start from scratch.
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[23:17:34] wesw02: ah man
[23:17:43] ** wesw02 sighs **
[23:17:48] wesw02: thanks for the help
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[23:18:27] wesw02: I actually backed it up last week
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[23:18:44] wesw02: before the trouble began, but also before I upgraded from .20 to .21
[23:18:59] wesw02: do you know will the .20 backup be valid if I slip it in?
[23:19:27] Dagmar: Nope.
[23:19:33] Dagmar: It'll just upgrade it, hopefully.
[23:19:50] ** wesw02 crosses fingers **
[23:19:50] Dagmar: You can't mix and match pieces of this without risking something breaking.
[23:20:11] wesw02: okay
[23:20:14] wesw02: noted
[23:20:29] iamlindoro: wesw02: What capture card type is this?
[23:20:39] wesw02: pvr250
[23:20:45] wesw02: using ivtv
[23:20:47] iamlindoro: Sounds like you set it up as a v4l card, not a mpeg-2 encoder card
[23:20:52] iamlindoro: in mythtv-setup
[23:21:23] Dagmar: ...or that something he's not telling us about damaged his database.
[23:21:39] wesw02: iamlindoro, that looks like it
[23:21:46] wesw02: restarting myth to confirm
[23:22:07] iamlindoro: I'll pre-confirm for you :)
[23:22:11] iamlindoro: That's it
[23:22:50] wesw02: i'll confirm your confirm, you just save me like 5 hours of work, thanks
[23:23:04] iamlindoro: ;)
[23:23:05] iamlindoro: np
[23:23:15] wesw02: something happened to the database though, I didn't make that change
[23:23:20] iamlindoro: Mmmhmmmmm
[23:23:20] wesw02: either way
[23:23:25] wesw02: I'm so happy right now
[23:23:32] wesw02: thanks for the help guys!
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[23:25:17] Dagmar: This is why it's important to have a UPS, and probably have the thing automatically make backups of the database at least once a week.
[23:25:51] wesw02: I do once a month on the backups and I'm too broke to afford a UPs
[23:26:04] wesw02: but after this I'm considering breaking the bank
[23:26:47] Fen_Star: look in the papers for a good deal
[23:27:14] Fen_Star: I got one for $20 a little bit ago
[23:27:23] Dagmar: Find a better job if you can't afford to spend $50 on a UPS.
[23:27:34] Dagmar: For that matter, stop spending your money on computers.
[23:27:35] wesw02: I got a decent job, just trying to finish college ;)
[23:27:47] wesw02: hehe
[23:28:07] Dagmar: Oh, then you probably KNOW what I'm about to suggest, since you're a college student.
[23:28:08] iamlindoro: spend money for to make sexytime
[23:28:09] Dagmar: Sell some plasma.
[23:28:29] Dagmar: At least you won't be doing it for beer like the frat boys.
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[23:28:59] wesw02: yea, plus after you sell the plasma, you only need 4 or 5 beers to get drunk ;)
[23:29:00] Dagmar: Bring some respectability to the realm of selling bodily fluids for money
[23:29:05] wesw02: haha
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[23:35:46] iamlindoro: What the FECK? Let this be the answer to anyone who bitches about Myth's themes/UI: http://www.geektonic.com/2008/07/sagetv-theme . . . de-1_27.html
[23:36:31] GreyFoxx: Omg busy or what
[23:36:44] GreyFoxx: That's really kinda nasty
[23:36:52] iamlindoro: No joke
[23:36:55] ** kormoc blinks **
[23:37:34] GreyFoxx: It's actually hurts me to look at heh
[23:38:07] iamlindoro: look at 1:45
[23:38:19] iamlindoro: when the IE window pops up and you get to minimize it to listen to internet radio
[23:39:05] wesw02: lol
[23:41:31] Dagmar: Whoa
[23:41:34] Dagmar: Who's been kidnapped?
[23:42:05] jamesd (jamesd!n=jamesd@adsl-68-248-236-154.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
[23:42:23] Dagmar: Looks like terrorists put that theme together
[23:42:38] iamlindoro: This is why gbee shouldn't make it *too* accessible with MythUI :)
[23:42:47] Dagmar: I think he should.
[23:43:43] Dagmar: Because then we could point at the *good* theme artists and say "NOW YOU CAN SEE WHAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PROTECTING YOU FROM! STOP COMPLAINING, DAMNIT!"
[23:44:20] iamlindoro: Ah, but what about the ones who come in and go "MSPaint-wide is teh awesomes!!" Because their opinions make me sad.
[23:44:34] Dagmar: I have no problem calling these people idiots. Do you?
[23:44:45] iamlindoro: Do you even have to *ask* me that?  ;)
[23:44:52] Dagmar: Well there you go
[23:45:53] sid3windr: cool background music ;)
[23:45:58] Gumby (Gumby!n=gumby@unaffiliated/gumby) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:46:20] sid3windr: mspaint-wide sounds very interesting, iamlindoro
[23:46:42] jamesd (jamesd!n=jamesd@adsl-68-248-236-154.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[23:46:51] iamlindoro: Yeah, It's so l33t I needed wine to run my... erm... Design program.

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