MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

Daily chat history

Current users (183):

A-, abqjp, adante, Agrajag-, ahbritto, ahbritto_, akv, alexvd, andreax1, Anduin, AndyCap, anykey_, asjoyner, Beirdo, benc_, bio___, blackest, bobgill_, briand, bsdfox, BULLE, cafuego, Caliban, Captain_Murdoch, cesman, chainsawbike, ChanServ, charlieS, clever, clintar_, ColdFyre, Comedy, compbrain, CoreDump, Cougar, cout, crichardson, croppa, CRXLNAWAY, Czar_Away, d00gster, dagar, Dagmar, Dave123, dec, DGnome, Disputin, dlblog, dmz, drfontus, Dt, dustybin, eNeRGi, Exstatica, famicom, Floppe, FooBar01, frobi, fryfrog, generichuman2, GiantPickle, gnome42, gorillas, grantm, gregL, GreyFoxx, growler, Hannibal-, harrisony, hatchmt, high-rez, Honk, Hoxzer, Huijari, iamlindoro, ivor, i_is_cat, J-e-f-f-A, J-e-f-f-A|work, jabra, jafa, jamesd, jams, janneg, jarle, jblack, jduggan, jk1joel, JohnMahowald, jpabq, justdave, kabtoffe_, KaZeR, keith4, Kevin`, kothog, LabMonkey, ldam, lsobral, mace, madfactor, MaverickTech, meshugga, mikegrb, mikeones, MilkBoy, mishehu, Mixx, MythLogBot, mzb_d800, nagnag, neddy, Nik_Doof, nuonguy, Octane, olds, oobe, opello, otwin, pablo, packetscan, Patina, PatrickDK, pat_, phedny, phunguy, phunyguy, pigeon, piksi, PointyPumper, praet, psofa, purserj, quicksilver, RaYmAn-Bx, Ra^, Reiver, riddlebox, rooaus, Sedorox, selmanj, SHADOW__X, sid3windr, simcop2387, SlicerDicer_, Slim-Kimbo, sphery, splat1, squidly, squish102, Sulx, sutula, tank-man, tarbo, tcpsyn, terr1, tfm, Therock_, Thomas-, thoraxe, til, tjcarter, TomasuDlrrp, tomimo, tonyb, toorima, Toxicity999, tris, Virindi, wagnerrp, webvictim, Winkie, wireddd, xamindar, xisle, xris, zand, zer-0-, zoomzoom, [gquit]bombadil, [PUPPETS]Gonzo, _charly_, _gunni_

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument


Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-01 17:56:44 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Wednesday, July 23rd, 2008, 00:00 UTC
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[00:19:42] sphery: iamlindoro: The "bulk import" is not actually a script. I'm building it into mythbackend (will be done automatically as part of housekeeping or on demand). Also, it's not done (just a plan, no code, yet). "Bulk delete" will also be in backend/frontend, but won't be automatic (as we never know if a file is missing or if some storage is unmounted).
[00:20:11] iamlindoro: Ah, I see-- cool, good to know, thanks
[00:20:15] sphery: will probably work on it in the next couple of weeks and will post a patch once it's working.
[00:20:48] jpabq: sphery, I am working on building a brand new replacement MBE. Is there a "new" way of copying over the recordings?
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[00:25:03] sphery: iamlindoro: Basically, things will just appear in an "Unidentified" recording group and you can then edit title, subtitle, description as desired.
[00:25:14] sphery: jpabq: the database_mythconverg_{backup,restore}.pl scripts can do it for you
[00:25:53] sphery: sorry for the slow reply. POS hotel 'net connection drops any "low traffic" connections because, "if there's not a ton of data flowing through, the user will never notice its dying..."
[00:26:06] sphery: even ServerAliveInterval doesn't help.
[00:26:33] wagnerrp: well it was in fact just a shitty amplifier
[00:26:49] wagnerrp: i went to radio shack, got a replacement, and the video quality is significantly better
[00:27:22] wagnerrp: but even more important, it reminded me that ive got a pair of DSTB coupons that expire tomorrow
[00:27:23] sphery: jpabq: the scripts are available in trunk, now, and have (way too) extensive --help output. Don't think I can give you much more through this 'net connection.
[00:27:28] Dagmar: sphery: It could be worse.
[00:27:39] sphery: jpabq: in trunk/mythtv/programs/scripts/database, IIRC.
[00:27:48] Dagmar: You could have Comcat's Sandvine shit actively breaking any connection older than a few minutes whenever they want to free up bandwidth
[00:27:53] jpabq: sphery, thanks. I will take a look.
[00:28:28] sphery: Dagmar: nice. Perhaps that's the provider here (though I think this is mainly Verizon land--D.C.)
[00:28:54] sphery: Anyway, gotta go before my connection dies, again.
[00:29:16] sphery: jpabq: btw, the old way works, too, if you don't want to spend the time learning.
[00:29:32] jpabq: Learning is good :-p
[00:29:35] sphery: I'm planning on doing up some wiki documentation, then a patch for the MythTV HOWTO for Robert.
[00:30:05] sphery: and, the scripts work with all versions of Myth--even -fixes or 0.13 (if you're a bit behind the times :)
[00:34:26] wagnerrp: gizmodo has an image of a giant display outside the Apple Beijing store booting up Windoes XP
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[00:39:42] victor_: can anyone look at my dmesg output for my TV Tuner Kworld ATSC 120: http://pastebin.com/m2eb867ba
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[01:14:54] wagnerrp: well this whole thing started because the cable run to the pool was poor
[01:15:28] wagnerrp: turns out it had nothing to do with damaged lines, or excess devices, or poor tuner quality
[01:15:46] wagnerrp: but the modulator stuck in-line to send DVD down there was stuck 'on'
[01:16:04] wagnerrp: destroying the signal like if you enable 'tv/vcr' on a vcr
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[01:25:45] CWALv2: Is there a way to make an 'unpriveleged frontend' that can only watch shows and not change anything on the bakcend?
[01:28:34] Dagmar: Nope
[01:28:51] GreyFoxx: closet
[01:28:55] GreyFoxx: thing would be a upnp client
[01:29:50] CWALv2: Dammit
[01:29:55] CWALv2: That's a really big flaw
[01:30:10] CWALv2: Something should be done about that
[01:30:12] GreyFoxx: it's only a flaw if it's unintentional
[01:30:19] Dagmar: I don't think we have that many peeople in the US actually
[01:30:22] Dagmar: wrong chan
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[01:30:37] CWALv2: Well I don't want my roomates to overrid my recording schedules by accident
[01:30:52] CWALv2: But want to let them be able to watch
[01:30:54] GreyFoxx: Carry a stick :)
[01:30:58] CWALv2: lmao
[01:31:44] GreyFoxx: of and on over the years some users have expressed and interest in users/permissions and such, but none have ever come forth with any code
[01:32:02] GreyFoxx: Mainly those who don't want their kids to see certain shows or be able to screw up their recordingfs
[01:32:28] CWALv2: Well good enough for me would be an option for the backend
[01:32:38] CWALv2: 'ignore commands from this host but let them watch movies'
[01:32:51] Dagmar: Doesn't exist
[01:32:56] CWALv2: Figured
[01:33:13] CWALv2: Any option to compile the frontend without the ability to tell the backend stuff?
[01:33:19] GreyFoxx: nope
[01:33:23] CWALv2: Eh
[01:33:28] CWALv2: Oh well, threats of force it is
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[01:33:38] GreyFoxx: CWA: YEs, and carry a stick :)
[01:34:06] GreyFoxx: shouldn't make more than 1 snap with it after they screw something up to "fix" it :)
[01:35:33] CWALv2: Hehe
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[01:41:59] KungFuJesus: hello, I'm having some issues with my mythtv configuration since I updated my xorg to 7.3 and my nvidia drivers
[01:42:11] KungFuJesus: does anybody know why I'm getting a half million prebuffering pauses?
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[01:43:17] Comedy: Hi, I just started looking at mythtv and I can't for the life of me figure out how to just use it as a media center and stream movies... I think the only thing I need to know is how to point mythtv to specific directories containing movies.. Can anyone help?
[01:43:22] Comedy: (i did read around online first)
[01:43:44] Dagmar: Did you *set up a MythTV box*?
[01:44:07] Dagmar: ...and did you *install the MythVideo plugin*?
[01:45:08] KungFuJesus: nobody?
[01:45:13] Comedy: I guess my answer is now.. I'll have to look into that. someone recommended it to me but I thought it would be an 'out-of-the-box' media server.. After reading around I see it's pretty different
[01:45:22] Comedy: thanks, I'll read up on mythvideo
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[01:45:58] Dagmar: KungFuJesus: Neither of those should be able to affect the backend.
[01:46:05] Dagmar: You changed something else.
[01:47:07] Comedy: how do i point mythtv at a specific folder then when my media server is running?
[01:47:27] KungFuJesus: I know, the problem is my frontend, why is the internal player having so many problems now?
[01:47:28] Comedy: just tell me straight if m,y questions are stupid or easily faq'able... i just couldnt find an answer
[01:48:30] GreyFoxx: comedy: Yes, you tell mythvideo what the root directory containing your video files is (note this is different than where you store recordings)
[01:48:56] GreyFoxx: kungfu: you could try running mythfronted with -v playback and checking the output
[01:48:58] Dagmar: ...and everything about MythVideo is documented on it's wiki page, which is also it's first Google hit
[01:49:12] GreyFoxx: see if it's using XV for output or X11
[01:49:30] Comedy: thanks GreyFoxx.. I don't know where the config files for mythtv are though :/
[01:49:37] GreyFoxx: there are none
[01:49:41] GreyFoxx: It's all stored in the database
[01:49:50] Comedy: Dagmar, i'm really not trying to be lazy.. I'm just confused by the whole thing
[01:49:52] GreyFoxx: you configure the mythvideo directory in the frontend setup menus
[01:49:53] Dagmar: It's documented on the web page that you had to have found, had you actually googled "MythVideo"
[01:51:48] wagnerrp: FUCK!
[01:51:58] wagnerrp: ive got insects in my LCDs again
[01:52:49] Dagmar: You should really stop keeping eclairs inside the machine.
[01:53:19] wagnerrp: i dont know whats in there thats so desireable
[01:53:57] Dagmar: I'm trying to remember what screws up ants but I can't
[01:54:05] Comedy: Ok, i figured out how i was being stupid.. i was trying to config these things through the backend setup and wondering why it was completely irrelevant
[01:54:07] Dagmar: It's not borax--that's for cockroaches
[01:54:29] wagnerrp: well the problem is that these things are so small, they go right through the screen windows, and the casing to my monitors
[01:54:32] GreyFoxx: whereever you are launching mythfrontend
[01:54:59] wagnerrp: they only appear when the AC fails, and we open up the windows
[01:56:11] Dagmar: I'd think about maybe putting some citronella something or other inside the machine then
[01:56:19] Dagmar: ...or just spraying the screens down with it
[01:56:25] Dagmar: (mesh screens, not flatpanels)
[01:56:33] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: this is my script to launch the frontend: http://rafb.net/p/87rN3c92.html
[01:56:49] KungFuJesus: my cpu usage through the whole thing seems to be only at 20%
[01:57:25] KungFuJesus: no swap in use, it's not a resource issue, it seems to be a lower level issue
[01:57:30] GreyFoxx: add playback to the end of that file
[01:57:35] GreyFoxx: err line
[01:58:30] KungFuJesus: alright, I'll tail -f the log remotely while I watch a program
[01:59:01] Dagmar: You could also make sure you included proper disk controller support in your rebuilt kernel.
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[02:00:27] KungFuJesus: sorry for the paste, it's a one liner: 2008-07–22 21:59:51.966 VideoOutputXv: Frame D is in use by avlib and so is bein
[02:00:30] KungFuJesus: g held for later discarding.
[02:01:21] KungFuJesus: errr, I'm sorry, that was after playback. If I scroll up during playback...
[02:02:16] KungFuJesus: http://rafb.net/p/pE0pq537.html
[02:03:03] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: Now let me change audio output to null and show you what happens
[02:05:40] KungFuJesus: still the same problem, my logs and situation seem to be identical to this guy's http://lists.atrpms.net/pipermail/atrpms-user . . . /005948.html
[02:06:26] Dagmar: You consider 20% to be "high CPU"?
[02:08:07] Dagmar: Frankly, I'd just downgrade X back to what was working before.
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[02:09:29] KungFuJesus: that's the problem, I can't, my xf86-input-keyboard driver won't build, this is gentoo
[02:09:48] KungFuJesus: I'm not saying 20% cpu usage is high, but my playback errors are abundant
[02:10:04] Dagmar: ...and these are all X errors
[02:10:09] KungFuJesus: I think the guy was confusing high cpu usage because of the stuttering video
[02:10:27] KungFuJesus: well was this .21 branch in svn tested against xorg 7.3?
[02:10:42] KungFuJesus: I was quick to point the finger at nvidia, but mplayer with xvmc and without xvmc works fine
[02:11:37] KungFuJesus: I did try to downgrade, until it exploded on the keyboard driver. This is going to be inevitabilty though once 7.3 is default for most distributions
[02:11:54] Dagmar: Doubtful
[02:12:00] Dagmar: I blame gentoo.
[02:12:30] KungFuJesus: lol, blame gentoo all you want, but I'm telling you most of gentoo keeps the code untouched, with some patches for known bugs
[02:12:38] KungFuJesus: the code is pretty much vanilla
[02:12:43] Dagmar: That you can't downgrade to something that was running before should be a pretty serious sign that something isn't right with your box.
[02:12:51] KungFuJesus: my CFLAGS are stable too
[02:13:02] Dagmar: Your CFLAGS are not executable code.
[02:13:03] fryfrog: no --omg-optimized?
[02:13:10] KungFuJesus: I can't downgrade because it complains about some missing header, I probably have to downgrade my kernel
[02:13:15] Dagmar: Nope.
[02:13:24] Dagmar: It's not dependent on the kernel.
[02:13:25] KungFuJesus: nope, just a simple -O2 -mtune=pentium4
[02:13:39] KungFuJesus: hmm, well then there's something wrong with their distfile, strange
[02:13:53] Dagmar: Neither 7.2 nor 7.1 require any particular version of the kernel
[02:14:09] KungFuJesus: I was running it before but not on this installation
[02:14:36] Dagmar: ...and there is no reason to believe that this is "going to be inevitabilty though" because there's plenty of people already using xorg 7.3
[02:14:44] KungFuJesus: if a fedora user is having this problem, it's not gentoo specific
[02:14:53] Dagmar: KungFuJesus: Make up your mind
[02:14:59] Dagmar: Are you running Gentoo or are you running Fedora?
[02:16:01] KungFuJesus: it's going to be an inevitability that myth will be used with a 7.3 xorg-server and dependencies
[02:16:10] KungFuJesus: I'm running gentoo, but this fedora user has the same problem
[02:16:14] Dagmar: You should really look up what that word means.
[02:16:20] Dagmar: I do not think it means what you think it means.
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[02:16:49] KungFuJesus: which word?
[02:16:49] Dagmar: ...and as to 7.3, well, there's "many" Ubuntu users
[02:16:56] Dagmar: "inevitability"
[02:17:09] KungFuJesus: yes, at some point all distros will use xorg 7.3
[02:17:12] Dagmar: Here's an idea. Download MythBuntu.
[02:17:16] KungFuJesus: I think that's an invevitability
[02:18:00] Dagmar: They have no problems making it work with Xorg 7.3, probably because they can maintain their headers and keep a clean development environment.
[02:18:22] Dagmar: Something isn't "an inevitability".
[02:18:27] KungFuJesus: Dagmar: this isn't a flame war about gentoo
[02:18:27] Dagmar: It's "inevitable"
[02:18:34] Dagmar: KungFuJesus: Who said it was
[02:19:10] Dagmar: I'm not blaming Gentoo for anything other than leading people who aren't following careful enough development procedures into thinking they can just ignore such with impunity.
[02:19:15] KungFuJesus: my point is there is a user posting on a mailing list for fedora5 having the same issue, so this issue can't be new or related to xorg 7.3
[02:19:18] Dagmar: I'm saying _your_ machine however, is screwed up.
[02:19:34] Dagmar: If you downloaded MythBuntu, you would see that it does in fact work with Xorg 7.3.
[02:19:47] Dagmar: So effing what?
[02:19:51] KungFuJesus: does mythbuntu use the nvidia drivers for xvmc?
[02:20:27] Dagmar: One lone kook on the internet has one symptom similar to yours, and you assume he has your exact problem, even though this was HOW long ago? ...and a full release behind?
[02:21:06] KungFuJesus: touche
[02:21:25] KungFuJesus: although, he is using nvidia drivers as well
[02:22:12] KungFuJesus: does the internal player still use ffmpeg to decode the video?
[02:23:25] GreyFoxx: it uses the same libraries yes
[02:23:32] GreyFoxx: for decoding that is
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[02:24:34] KungFuJesus: well this is straight mpeg2 from a pchdtv card, so encoding probably isn't an issue
[02:24:50] KungFuJesus: well, then again...maybe I should try the raw mpg's in a different player to see
[02:27:00] KungFuJesus: well, it happens on dvd playback too
[02:30:04] KungFuJesus: it's strange how many people experience similar playback issues using fedora. I'm not seeing much of a pattern apart from that, though
[02:32:14] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: using -vc ffmpeg12mc with mplayer yields perfect results. Libmpeg2 doesn't seem to do any better
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[02:34:36] KungFuJesus: I really do enjoy mythtv's internal player, I just wish I know what was wrong with it :(
[02:35:28] Dagmar: Nothing here.
[02:35:40] Dagmar: ...other than the usual x264 bitchiness
[02:35:48] Dagmar: Seriously, downlaod MythBuntu.
[02:37:18] KungFuJesus: well, x264 is always a problem in linux
[02:37:28] KungFuJesus: could it be a ring buffer problem?
[02:37:43] Dagmar: Considering the ringbuffer no longer exists? No.
[02:38:03] KungFuJesus: lol, when did that happen?
[02:38:11] Dagmar: It *could* easily be what happens when you try to use the latest unstable versions of everything.
[02:38:15] Dagmar: MONTHS ago
[02:38:35] Dagmar: There was no ringbuffer with 0.21
[02:38:55] KungFuJesus: guess the code was never changed, then, because this is in the log: 2008-07–22 22:07:29.037 TV: StopStuff(): stopping ring buffer[s]
[02:39:10] KungFuJesus: and there is a ringbuffer option to change in my config
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[02:39:46] Dagmar: Ask around.
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[02:39:56] KungFuJesus: to be clear, my svn branch is p17722
[02:40:03] Dagmar: Why you want to misinterpret something in the logs over something a human is telling you in full sentences, I have no idea.
[02:40:12] Dagmar: Feel free to search your disk for the ringbuffer if you like.
[02:40:47] KungFuJesus: calm down, I simply said the function writing to the log probably wasn't changed
[02:41:10] KungFuJesus: Dagmar: why do you seem so condescending, what did gentoo do to you?
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[02:41:38] Dagmar: It gives us people with unclean development environments and impossible to troubleshoot problems like yours, for one thing.
[02:41:41] wagnerrp: ugh... who thought it was a good idea to put ECW on scifi
[02:42:09] Dagmar: ...but if you'll look at what you typed you'll see it's perfectly reasonble to interpret what you said as meaning you believe in the existance of a ringbuffer, man.
[02:42:34] Dagmar: wagnerrp: I think that's what's generally referred to as "the booze making the decisions"
[02:42:42] KungFuJesus: I don't know why I still am able to change it in the menu, that is still to question
[02:43:13] GreyFoxx: It's not the ringbuffer of old used for livetv
[02:43:31] GreyFoxx: it's an inmemory buffer of decoded frames ahead of the ones actually being displayed
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[02:44:37] wagnerrp: it would have only been more confusing if they put it on monday, preceding their Anime showings
[02:45:05] wagnerrp: of course putting it on tuesday, following star trek doesnt make much sense either
[02:45:26] Dagmar: At least some of the Anime is science fiction
[02:45:42] Dagmar: ...as opposed to ECW which is all redneck-fiction
[02:45:44] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: that seems to be what my problem is related to, isn't it?
[02:46:03] GreyFoxx: I highly doubt it
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[02:46:18] KungFuJesus: what might happen if I increase it?
[02:46:25] wagnerrp: im saying the anime and star trek crowds are so far removed from the wrestling crowd, the line up is mind boggling
[02:46:41] GreyFoxx: Kung: Likely nothing beyond a bigger ram buffer
[02:46:48] GreyFoxx: but do it and see
[02:48:09] Dagmar: wagnerrp: What baffles me is that it's just this isolated incident
[02:48:22] Dagmar: Generally such things are part of a wholesale, "whoring out" of the network
[02:48:35] Dagmar: Like what Comcast did with "G4TechTV"
[02:49:07] Dagmar: Clearly, they decided geeks needed to behave more like men, so three hours of "The Man Show" gets added to the lineup each day for a few weeks
[02:49:10] KungFuJesus: yep, nothing. It just stutters, it will stall, then jump at about 4x the speed
[02:49:24] Dagmar: ...and then "Hurl", which is a show about eating too much _just_ to vomit it back up.
[02:49:34] GreyFoxx: take the output of a -v playback and put it into pastebin.ca
[02:49:58] wagnerrp: my roommate used to watch 'cheaters' a lot, and i think that was on G4
[02:50:00] KungFuJesus: ahh, I have a pastebin of it somewhere in this room
[02:50:05] wagnerrp: that doesnt make sense either
[02:50:06] KungFuJesus: err channel
[02:50:17] wagnerrp: of course him watching cheaters makes no sense to begin with
[02:50:49] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: I'll clear out my log and then throw the whole thing into pastebin for you
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[02:52:10] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: I changed my audio device to null to help with the length of the log and to eliminate the sound card as a possible problem
[02:52:38] Dagmar: wagnerrp: It just goes to show that a management team that managed a network of less than four million viewers can INDEED buy a network with forty million and reduce it to twelve million in under six months.
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[02:54:38] KungFuJesus: GreyFoxx: http://rafb.net/p/vRxtPc97.html
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[02:55:25] wagnerrp: "ECW became the most popular program on the network by the summer of 2007"
[02:55:29] wagnerrp: that is absolutely pathetic
[02:56:34] Dagmar: I suspect it's an outright lie.
[02:57:01] wagnerrp: well its on wikipedia, and of course wikipedia can tell no lie
[02:57:41] wagnerrp: then again, i wouldnt expect it to be false, considering people who use the internet and people who enjoy ECW tend not to be one and the same
[02:57:42] Dagmar: Then they must have completely lost their minds, because Eureka cleaned house, and Battlestar Galactica is their megalith crusher
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[03:02:21] wagnerrp: so they cancelled all their shows last season?
[03:03:26] Dagmar: JKust mark the passage as being disputed and wait for someone to look it up
[03:12:35] fryfrog: Dagmar: you are talking about the wrestling on sci-fi?
[03:12:43] fryfrog: it is true, it was their most popular show on the network
[03:12:49] fryfrog: and i agree, that is pathetic :/
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[03:18:36] Gumby: anyone know why I would get choppiness when playing live HD but its fine when I am recording something and start to watch it via recording programs as it continues recording?
[03:22:47] KungFuJesus: Gumby: just curious (and I don't have a solution to your problem) what video card and drivers are you using?
[03:23:49] Gumby: KungFuJesus: onboard nvidia 7150. Latest nvidia drivers self compiled. HDMI out to HDTV 720p
[03:24:19] KungFuJesus: I'm getting something similar with the latest nvidia drivers
[03:24:45] KungFuJesus: my playback through "watch recordings" is ok when the audio device is set to NULL
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[03:25:56] Gumby: hrm, kinda the same only different :)
[03:26:24] KungFuJesus: yeah, I wouldn't say they're identical problems
[03:26:36] KungFuJesus: could be the same source, though
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[03:29:40] Gumby: KungFuJesus: and what is your nvidia driver version?
[03:30:09] KungFuJesus: 173.something
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[04:21:06] hatchmt: So MythTV is really good about remembering which channel you were last watching, but I have yet to find a way to make it remember which tuner you were last watching. As I have channels that aren't available on all tuners, is there a way to make it default to the tuner you were last using when you start watching live TV?
[04:21:47] hatchmt: (I'm using .21, by the way)
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[04:29:01] Dagmar: hatchmt: You should probably assign what channels are available to which tuners correctly in MythTV-setup, man.
[04:29:14] Dagmar: That would elimiate the wrong tuner problem.
[04:29:35] hatchmt: (sigh) no no no...
[04:29:50] hatchmt: The channels are correctly assigned to their tuners
[04:30:37] hatchmt: my problem is that if I'm watching a show on, say, the analog cable input, and I exit tv, if I go back in to continue the show, it defaults to the ATSC tuner instead because it comes first in the list.
[04:30:56] hatchmt: now, I realize that the workaround is to record the show and just go watch it in recordings
[04:31:23] hatchmt: but I'm wondering if there's a way to make it go to whatever tuner was last being used instead of going to the first tuner in the list
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[04:36:19] gregbrady: I'm looking to replace my software based ATI tuner card, which seems of little value, and I was wondering what the best card to get was?
[04:36:34] Anduin: gregbrady: many use one of the hauppauge x50 cards (150 for single tuner, 500 for dual)
[04:36:53] gregbrady: Cool
[04:37:09] hatchmt: gregbrady, I just replaced my ATI TV Wonder with two PVR-150's, and I couldn't be happier
[04:37:33] wagnerrp: ive got a pair of them
[04:37:40] Anduin: gregbrady: there are similar cards as well, and some hybrid ones that would get you SD/HD
[04:37:45] hatchmt: two 150's is about $50 cheaper than the 500
[04:37:56] wagnerrp: they used to be a pain to get running, but ivtv has improved to the point where theyre effectively plug-and-play
[04:37:58] Anduin: if you can burn the PCI slots
[04:38:17] gregbrady: One thing I don't understand though.....years ago...like 10, I had an ATI all in wonder card that did a great job with recording tv signals and such. Now, a decade later, more RAM, more Mhz, more hard drive space and it seems that you need so much more in a video card!
[04:38:20] hatchmt: I use the two 150s and an HDHomeRun, so I don't need an sd/hd card
[04:39:00] gregbrady: Same regular definition signal.
[04:39:38] wagnerrp: gregbrady: thats the difference between running windows where hardware providers give proper drivers, and running linux, where everything is hacked together with limited knowledge
[04:39:59] gregbrady: No, same under windows
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[04:40:11] wagnerrp: even still, my 8yr old laptop handles any standard definition stuff like a champ
[04:40:29] gregbrady: I agree with that though!!!!
[04:40:33] gregbrady: I just don't get it.
[04:40:51] gregbrady: Though tons more processing power, tons more memory and get less performance.
[04:40:58] gregbrady: Booting takes longer
[04:41:01] wagnerrp: how is there less performance?
[04:41:14] hatchmt: gregbrady, you'll notice a huge difference in video quality from using a card like a 150 which does onboard MPEG encoding, whereas the ATI card just threw the frames at the CPU to do the encoding. I don't get the whole 'slower after ten years' thing, though.
[04:41:46] hatchmt: I can't even tell you how crappy the TV Wonder was.
[04:42:06] wagnerrp: there is no CPU load on my machine when recording off my 150s, and negligable load when playing back
[04:42:12] gregbrady: Ok, years ago with a P4 I had an ATI video card. Standard cable feed. It recorded video like a champ. No hiccups and no issues.
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[04:42:52] gregbrady: No, with an AMD 64 3500+ and all the hard drive space it could want, an ATI tuner card just hiccups and spudders with the same signal.
[04:43:11] gregbrady: *Now,
[04:43:40] wagnerrp: under windows or linux?
[04:43:49] gregbrady: Windows originally
[04:43:55] gregbrady: Now Linux
[04:44:17] wagnerrp: under linux, you may have to tweek with the PCI latency
[04:44:32] wagnerrp: if you set the transfer windows too short, it will have difficulties
[04:44:46] gregbrady: No worries, it just seems strange.
[04:45:09] wagnerrp: ive never had issues with it personally, but the ivtv drivers warn you of such things if it detects there may be a problem
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[04:46:49] DurtDiggler: where can I order a pvr500 from
[04:46:52] gregbrady: I just don't get how an AMD 64 3500 processor that can process what, 2 Gflps cannot process a straight up cable video signal. That makes no sense
[04:46:58] DurtDiggler: it seems newegg is all out
[04:47:19] wagnerrp: its got nothing to do with the processor
[04:47:23] wagnerrp: it has to do with the PCI bus
[04:47:24] gregbrady: Yes it does
[04:47:37] gregbrady: And the PCI bus runs at what speed?
[04:47:39] wagnerrp: the bus controller is exactly the same as it was 10 years ago
[04:47:59] wagnerrp: it peaks at 133MB/s, for all devices
[04:48:19] gregbrady: 133 MB/s is more then ample to process video.
[04:48:24] gregbrady: at least SD video
[04:50:27] hatchmt: the video device isn't the only device sharing the PCI bus, though
[04:50:36] wagnerrp: not true, assuming it transfers the data uncompressed, thats nearly 30MB/s
[04:50:44] hatchmt: it's 133MB/s for the entire bus, not per device
[04:51:01] wagnerrp: now have it fight for time with the network controller, disk controller, USB, and a slew of other devices
[04:51:25] wagnerrp: realize that that value is peak, if one device has dedicated access
[04:51:39] wagnerrp: start flipping through several devices, and that total speed drops off dramatically
[04:51:45] gregbrady: What is the transfer speed required for a standard cable signal?
[04:52:03] hatchmt: not that much.  :)
[04:52:13] gregbrady: Exactly
[04:52:19] gregbrady: And nothing else running.
[04:52:19] wagnerrp: like i said, if its sending the raw audio and video across the bus, its upwards of 30MB/s
[04:52:32] gregbrady: Ok, nothing else running.
[04:52:51] gregbrady: Why can it not keep up....I just cannot figure this stuff out, sorry.
[04:53:12] wagnerrp: nothing else running means you disable network, you disable USB, you write to a memory cache rather than disk
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[04:53:29] hatchmt: it does make sence, as wagnerrp has stated, that since the ATI card is just a frame grabber and sends all the data to the CPU, in theory, it uses more PCI bandwidth than a 150 that sends MPEG data across the bus
[04:53:34] hatchmt: sense*
[04:53:35] wagnerrp: there are other things that cannot be turned off
[04:53:42] gregbrady: You mean those other idle things take up 133–30 MB/s?
[04:53:57] wagnerrp: no, but it takes considerable time to switch between them
[04:54:09] gregbrady: That is CPU power
[04:54:29] wagnerrp: that is not CPU power, that is just the switching speed of the bus
[04:54:38] wagnerrp: independent of how fast your computer is
[04:54:50] gregbrady: Ok, let's say the same being wasted.
[04:54:54] gregbrady: 30 MB/s
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[04:55:01] gregbrady: That is 60 MB/s
[04:55:02] gregbrady: Total
[04:55:15] gregbrady: Still a long way to go
[04:55:36] wagnerrp: thats why the switching latency comes into play
[04:55:52] wagnerrp: it reduces the frequency at which devices are switched between, increasing overall bandwidth
[04:56:00] gregbrady: Yes, but I don't understand how my old machine could do it with no problems....
[04:56:14] wagnerrp: if the device is too low, it cant get enough of a time slice to transfer
[04:56:16] hatchmt: what OS was your old machine running?
[04:56:20] hatchmt: 98?
[04:56:21] gregbrady: Have OS's become that bloated?
[04:56:30] gregbrady: I think it was 98
[04:56:30] wagnerrp: the difference is that the old machine had considerably less sitting on the bus
[04:56:47] wagnerrp: you probably still had a handful of cards sitting on the ISA bus
[04:56:55] wagnerrp: which is independent
[04:56:59] hatchmt: I never liked ATIs NT drivers for the TV Wonder series. I was always happier on 9x
[04:57:16] hatchmt: it could very well be the different OS
[04:58:03] wagnerrp: basically, this is the same reason why USB is so slow in practice, far slower than the advertised 60MB/s
[04:58:13] Dagmar: Am I the only person who considers it suspect that a machine that was running Windows 98 is being used as a framegrabber?
[04:58:14] gregbrady: My old card back then could actually search for keywords and record the associated video with it for a predetermined time!
[04:58:36] hatchmt: <shrug> Just get a new card and forget the whole thing.  :)
[04:58:56] wagnerrp: it is designed to do too much, so there is protocol overhead, there is switching overhead, and the resultant speed is less than half what it should be
[04:58:57] gregbrady: I'm sorry...just throw money at the problem?
[04:59:06] wagnerrp: exactly
[04:59:13] wagnerrp: got a catapult?
[04:59:24] gregbrady: Yeah, apparently
[04:59:42] gregbrady: I just want to understand why.
[05:00:48] wagnerrp: i explained why, there are too many devices competing for time, and the linux driver doesnt properly set the latency to make it work properly
[05:00:52] gregbrady: This machine I'm running now should be a supercomputer compared to what I was running ten years ago yet the experience is even less!
[05:01:15] hatchmt: If it ran so great on win98 back then on older hardware, install win98 on the new hardware and see if it runs any differently. If it does, then it could be hardware related. If it runs the same or better, the OS/Drivers are suspect. Of course, the thought of installing win98 on an athlon 64 sickens me...
[05:01:28] wagnerrp: the PCI bus is in no way improved on that machine from 10 years ago
[05:01:34] gregbrady: wagnerrp, what do you mean too many devices? What, a printer, crt, keyboard and mouse?
[05:02:04] gregbrady: hatchmt, If I had not disposed of that I would
[05:02:14] wagnerrp: i doubt you could run the framegrabber while printing
[05:02:33] wagnerrp: ive always found LPT to be unreasonably resource demanding
[05:02:38] hatchmt: i doubt you could run the framegrabber while <insert activity here>
[05:03:02] wagnerrp: but besides that, 10 years ago, that bus was doing far less
[05:03:20] gregbrady: wagnerrp, in what way?
[05:03:53] wagnerrp: well lets take my desktop then and now
[05:04:15] gregbrady: No, take mine
[05:04:19] wagnerrp: then, i had... a modem and a sound card, video was on an independent bus
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[05:05:16] wagnerrp: not... i have a sound card, two ethernet controllers, two tuners, usb, disk controller, firewire, embedded sound card, a handful of other embedded functions
[05:05:36] Dagmar: By the way you CAN set the latency for individual PCI devices with setpci
[05:05:38] gregbrady: And the processor speed is how much faster?
[05:05:42] gregbrady: And the RAM?
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[05:06:35] wagnerrp: i did explain that the bus has not improved over the last decade, right?
[05:07:02] gregbrady: So, devices have become less intelligent and more dependent on the cpu?
[05:07:08] wagnerrp: after ten years, that bus is still the same 133MB/s at the same frequency, switching delays, and everything
[05:07:35] gregbrady: So, we have gone backwards
[05:07:42] wagnerrp: the only difference is that back then, it could consume about 1/10th the FSB transfer rate, now its about 1/200th
[05:07:57] wagnerrp: we have not gone backwards, that bus has just not advanced
[05:08:06] wagnerrp: its currently being replaced by PCI-express
[05:08:09] gregbrady: That would be backwards to me
[05:08:38] wagnerrp: staying in the same place is synonymous to moving backwards?
[05:08:45] gregbrady: Yes
[05:08:50] gregbrady: Of course!@
[05:09:19] nuonguy: I'm still looking for help with http://pastebin.ca/1078139
[05:09:48] gregbrady: I thank you for your explaination. If you are indeed correct, I have a much greater understanding of things now. Thanks and I appreciate it!
[05:09:52] nuonguy: upgrading from .21-fixes to trunk breaks when mythtv-setup wants to upgrade the database schema from 1216 to 1222
[05:10:21] wagnerrp: did you ever post the bug ticket, or search for help in #mysql?
[05:10:54] nuonguy: I did not go to #mysql because I don't know how to describe the problem in mysql terms
[05:11:14] nuonguy: I tried to file the ticket, but even when I use another email address, it still gets marked as spam
[05:11:37] wagnerrp: just give them the postbin, they should understand whats going on
[05:11:50] wagnerrp: youre trying to convert a varchar column to a varbinary column
[05:12:11] wagnerrp: the previous varchar column has a fulltext index bound to it, preventing the conversion
[05:12:15] wagnerrp: and you need to know how to remove the index
[05:13:01] nuonguy: remove the index?
[05:13:31] nuonguy: is that another table or a row in a table or a column in a table?
[05:14:03] wagnerrp: its defined as part of the table, but it is not a separate column
[05:14:24] wagnerrp: it just sets up an index to allow text searches of the column specified
[05:14:41] wagnerrp: however you cannot do text searches of a binary field, so the modify fails
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[05:17:15] nuonguy: judging by the fact that this is committed to svn already, we can assume that any design decisions that led to converting that column to varbinary are final, right?
[05:17:41] wagnerrp: its in trunk, rather than release or stable, so i cant say
[05:17:56] wagnerrp: i believe it had to do with supporting non-standard characters
[05:19:49] wagnerrp: my current schema doesnt use any indexes, so i dont know why yours would
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[05:20:31] wagnerrp: unless making something a 'key' automatically creates an index
[05:21:33] wagnerrp: ah, it seems it does
[05:22:09] nuonguy: which means removing the index is not an option?
[05:22:48] wagnerrp: try 'alter table channel drop column channel_src'
[05:22:58] nuonguy: non-standard, as in unicode for non-latin languages?
[05:22:59] wagnerrp: 'alter table channel drop column sourceid'
[05:23:04] wagnerrp: 'alter table channel drop column visible'
[05:23:17] wagnerrp: that should drop the indexes and allow the columns to be converted
[05:23:25] nuonguy: how did you know to do that?
[05:23:29] wagnerrp: nuonguy: i believe so, yes
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[05:24:02] wagnerrp: i dont, im working on assumptions at the moment
[05:24:12] nuonguy: I actually bought a book on databases this past summer because my current job requires more and more knowledge on the subject, but I've been much too busy to read it
[05:24:28] Steven_M: hi all
[05:24:29] nuonguy: dropping columns sounds kinda dangerous
[05:24:40] ** nuonguy is a bit scared of doing permanent damage to my database **
[05:24:52] wagnerrp: my current database has 'keys', which are apparently the same as indexes
[05:24:59] wagnerrp: so im just dropping them
[05:25:07] wagnerrp: you did backup your database didnt you?
[05:25:13] nuonguy: coumns channel_src, sourceid, visible are no longer used?
[05:25:14] Steven_M: why does mythtv require mysql server
[05:25:17] nuonguy: yes
[05:25:21] wagnerrp: if you backed it up, there is no risk
[05:25:26] wagnerrp: you can just recover it if there are problems
[05:25:44] nuonguy: no risk, assuming I'm not some dolt that can't do a proper load
[05:25:45] wagnerrp: they are apparently fulltext indexes, which cannot be used with varbinary
[05:25:49] Steven_M: ?
[05:26:06] ** nuonguy <- has been know to do things that a dolt would do **
[05:26:11] wagnerrp: no risk, meaning you just do a 'mysql < dumpfile', and your database is back up to working order
[05:26:19] wagnerrp: the database is used for storage of all settings
[05:26:46] wagnerrp: the frontend and backend can just poll that for information, rather than having to write in a separate protocol to do the same thing
[05:27:13] wagnerrp: there has been talk of compiling an embedded sql server into the backend
[05:27:35] hatchmt: something like sqlite?
[05:27:42] wagnerrp: but the task of tracking recordings, channels, logs, and other such things lends itself to a database
[05:28:19] wagnerrp: i dont think sqlite has support for a number of things they were using, so the talk was about embedded mysql
[05:30:54] nuonguy: wagnerrp: are you saying that dropping channel_src, sourceid, and visible does not drop information that cannot be re-acquired somehow?
[05:31:17] wagnerrp: those are just indexes built from other columns
[05:31:23] wagnerrp: they can be rebuilt
[05:31:27] nuonguy: ah, that make more sense
[05:31:31] wagnerrp: or, the database can simply be recovered
[05:31:48] nuonguy: I'm looking at localhost/phpMyAdmin
[05:32:03] wagnerrp: ive never used a gui for mysql management
[05:32:03] nuonguy: do I need to stop mysql before I do something like this?
[05:32:15] wagnerrp: you must have mysql running to do such a thing
[05:32:28] nuonguy: I like bash, but I'm not elite enough to use the mysql prompt proficiently
[05:32:29] wagnerrp: those are commands that you give to the mysql server
[05:32:55] wagnerrp: i learned linux (or freebsd rather) using a headless machine
[05:33:07] wagnerrp: so i use little other than the terminal
[05:33:20] wagnerrp: forced me to learn how to type as well
[05:33:24] wagnerrp: win/win all around
[05:33:25] nuonguy: phpMyAdmin holds my hand for me, thankfully
[05:33:29] nuonguy: indeed
[05:34:06] wagnerrp: plus nearly everything i do at work is done on a terminal
[05:36:31] nuonguy: mythtv-setup even does the backup for me: Backed up database to file: '/mnt/myth/tv/mythconverg-1215–20080722223519.sql.gz'
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[05:36:51] wagnerrp: yeah, i noticed it does that now
[05:36:54] wagnerrp: i dont think it used to
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[05:37:38] wagnerrp: i do a weekly backup anyway
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[05:37:48] wagnerrp: ive corrupted a database more than once
[05:37:54] wagnerrp: so its just nice to have around
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[05:38:38] nuonguy: ERROR 1091 (42000): Can't DROP 'channel_src'; check that column/key exists
[05:39:30] wagnerrp: well figure out what it is for your database
[05:39:47] wagnerrp: 'zcat /mnt/myth/tv/mythconverg-1215–20080722223519.sql.gz | less'
[05:39:53] wagnerrp: and then search for '`channel`'
[05:43:31] nuonguy: I'm not sure I follow
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[05:43:37] nuonguy: there is definitely a tablle called channel
[05:44:41] nuonguy: I don't know what it means for INDEX channel_src to be related to fields channum and sourceid
[05:45:10] wagnerrp: my channel table looks like http://www.pastebin.ca/1080406
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[05:46:00] wagnerrp: there should be some sort of index at the bottom that is tripping you up
[05:46:02] pablo: hi, do i need any special service from my tv provider to be able to use mythtv? form where does it gets the channels schedule?
[05:46:30] wagnerrp: if you have a digital source, you can usually get a day of EPG data from your provider
[05:46:45] wagnerrp: US users typically use schedulesdirect
[05:46:57] wagnerrp: other users get data through XMLTV
[05:48:10] nuonguy: mine looks like this: http://www.pastebin.ca/1080407
[05:48:39] nuonguy: so obviously you're right about the index
[05:49:22] wagnerrp: well i dont know how to get rid of that fulltext offhand
[05:50:23] wagnerrp: try just 'alter table channel drop index channum'
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[05:53:15] nuonguy: query ok, 0 warnings, 465 rows affected
[05:57:25] nuonguy: http://www.pastebin.ca/1080412
[05:58:28] wagnerrp: you have a duplicate entry on a column that is not allowed duplication
[05:58:36] wagnerrp: delete one of them
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[06:01:12] nuonguy: you mean one row is a copy of another?
[06:03:16] wagnerrp: not necessarily
[06:03:47] wagnerrp: any columns or groups of columns specified as a 'key' cannot have a duplicate
[06:04:33] wagnerrp: it could have completely different data in that row, but if that 'key' has already been used, it will fail
[06:14:48] nuonguy: the table people has two fields, person and name
[06:14:49] DurtDiggler: ok no sound coming from my stupid card
[06:15:00] DurtDiggler: what a surprise I was sold a broken card
[06:15:14] nuonguy: name is type UNIQUE
[06:15:41] wagnerrp: unique will have the same effect
[06:16:05] wagnerrp: for whatever reason, when the field gets converted to UTF-8, it becomes a duplicate
[06:16:17] nuonguy: When I see "Duplicate entry 'Andr' for key 2", what is Andr?
[06:16:34] wagnerrp: andr is the actual data
[06:17:20] nuonguy: is 2 the row number?
[06:17:30] wagnerrp: try "select * from people where name='Andr'"
[06:18:03] nuonguy: empty set
[06:18:58] wagnerrp: perform the command manually, it may give you line numbers of the error
[06:19:04] wagnerrp: the alter table command
[06:20:36] nuonguy: ERROR 1062 (23000): Duplicate entry 'Andr' for key 2
[06:21:38] KungFuJesus: hello
[06:22:03] KungFuJesus: it seems that both my tuner cards and video card are on the same interrupt, is this what is causing the stuttering?
[06:23:28] nuonguy: KungFuJesus: how many slots does your motherboard have?
[06:23:39] nuonguy: btw, what kind of motherboard is it?
[06:23:41] KungFuJesus: like 4 pci slots
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[06:23:50] DurtDiggler: does anyone know where I can buy a pvr-500
[06:23:51] nuonguy: pci and not pci-e?
[06:23:55] KungFuJesus: correct
[06:23:56] nuonguy: newegg
[06:23:59] DurtDiggler: nah
[06:24:03] DurtDiggler: it's always out of stock
[06:24:03] KungFuJesus: pci and agp video card
[06:24:14] nuonguy: do you have any spare slots?
[06:24:17] nuonguy: I had to do that for mine
[06:24:34] KungFuJesus: yeah, one or two
[06:24:37] nuonguy: I have a dfi with builtin gfx chip so I had to move my pvr150 to a different slot
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[06:25:04] nuonguy: DurtDiggler: what's wrong with newegg?
[06:25:14] nuonguy: oh
[06:25:15] DurtDiggler: out of stock
[06:25:17] nuonguy: out of stock...
[06:25:19] DurtDiggler: I'm wondering the same thing
[06:25:51] DurtDiggler: are they rare
[06:25:59] DurtDiggler: they seem to be impossible to get
[06:26:40] nuonguy: even amazon lists it as unavailable
[06:26:43] nuonguy: what gives?
[06:26:46] DurtDiggler: I don't know
[06:26:56] DurtDiggler: I don't get it
[06:27:01] DurtDiggler: if it discontinued
[06:27:04] DurtDiggler: is*
[06:27:44] wagnerrp: for some reason, im thinking youre no longer allowed to sell them in the US
[06:28:00] wagnerrp: i think all tuners have to be digital capable
[06:28:10] DurtDiggler: did the factory where they make it burn down
[06:28:37] DurtDiggler: nah you can buy all sorts of analog tuner cards
[06:28:41] wagnerrp: since march 1 of last year, you can no longer sell them in the US
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[06:28:56] wagnerrp: congressional mandate
[06:29:01] DurtDiggler: what
[06:29:06] DurtDiggler: I never heard this
[06:29:14] wagnerrp: part of the whole ATSC conversion
[06:29:14] DurtDiggler: wouldn't surprise me
[06:29:31] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: you looking for a PVR500?
[06:29:36] DurtDiggler: haha why would they not be allowed to sell them though
[06:29:41] DurtDiggler: haha thats ridiculous
[06:29:50] wagnerrp: since that date, all tuners sold in the US must be able to receive ATSC
[06:29:52] fryfrog: i think it was just suplanted by different cards from haupage
[06:30:00] fryfrog: oh, really?
[06:30:05] DurtDiggler: tahts like saying your not allowed to sell a vcr anymore in the US
[06:30:33] fryfrog: wagnerrp: i'm pretty sure that they are allowed to sell, but have to come with a warning.
[06:30:34] wagnerrp: VCRs may be exempt for playback, i dont know
[06:30:40] DurtDiggler: wagnerrp: then why are there tons of other analog tuners still sold
[06:30:42] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: if you really want a PVR500, i have one that I don't use
[06:30:50] nuonguy: DurtDiggler: you're misunderestimating the intelligence involved in these decisions
[06:30:51] DurtDiggler: oh yeah
[06:30:59] fryfrog: haha
[06:31:05] fryfrog: <3 govenment
[06:31:11] DurtDiggler: misunderestimating
[06:31:12] DurtDiggler: haha
[06:31:16] fryfrog: but i'm pretty sure they are allowed to sell, but must carry a warning
[06:31:51] DurtDiggler: I'm pretty sure congress needs to stay out of my buisness
[06:32:09] wagnerrp: well the wikipedia article cites a news report that only mentions small TV sets
[06:32:14] wagnerrp: so that may not be true
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[06:32:29] wagnerrp: anyway, you cant buy an analog only TV in the US
[06:32:35] fryfrog: yes you can
[06:32:38] nuonguy: wagnerrp: since I didn't find a row with Andr in it, does it mean that the row is missing but should be there?
[06:32:40] fryfrog: the *HAVE* to come with a warning
[06:32:48] fryfrog: a few stores got fined for it
[06:33:01] wagnerrp: that means that the row does not exist until you make the encoding change
[06:33:19] nuonguy: is this a catch 22 situationN?
[06:33:37] wagnerrp: at which point two previous dissimilar rows get converted into the same thing
[06:33:39] wagnerrp: yes
[06:34:30] DurtDiggler: well Im glad the government is protecting me from being able to buy the pvr500
[06:34:41] nuonguy: how do I search for a row where Andr is a substring rather than the whole string?/
[06:34:44] DurtDiggler: what woudl I do without them
[06:34:58] wagnerrp: create a searchable index
[06:35:50] DurtDiggler: fryfrog: why arent you using yours
[06:36:25] DurtDiggler: I already have one broken card here right now and I don't want anther
[06:36:55] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: I use a pair of firewire STBS
[06:37:10] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: i also have a pair of air2pc cards (ATSC) that i don't use anymore either
[06:37:19] DurtDiggler: oh
[06:37:25] fryfrog: i've got the 500 and its daugther card, not the usb ir or remote though
[06:37:57] fryfrog: i used to use it to record analog cable, ~6 months ago, i'd say?
[06:38:09] fryfrog: how does one of those things *die* anyway?
[06:38:12] fryfrog: you sure it is busted?
[06:38:18] DurtDiggler: no audio
[06:38:26] fryfrog: tried it in winblows?
[06:38:30] fryfrog: and no audio from what?
[06:38:32] DurtDiggler: it just makes a buzzing noise in mythtv
[06:38:34] fryfrog: rf, rca?
[06:38:38] DurtDiggler: and sometimes nothing at all
[06:38:42] DurtDiggler: now I tried it in windows
[06:38:45] DurtDiggler: and there's no audio at all
[06:38:55] fryfrog: not under warrenty or anything?
[06:39:02] DurtDiggler: I just got it
[06:39:07] DurtDiggler: and now Ill be returning it
[06:39:11] fryfrog: wait, it is brand new?
[06:39:15] DurtDiggler: yeah
[06:39:16] fryfrog: thats... weird
[06:39:20] DurtDiggler: not for me
[06:39:27] DurtDiggler: half the stuff I order comes broken
[06:39:30] fryfrog: you get a lot of new things that fail?
[06:39:36] fryfrog: thats... also weird :/
[06:39:40] DurtDiggler: quite often yes
[06:39:43] fryfrog: do you use hammers to open boxes? :p
[06:39:51] clever: fryfrog: /dev/hammer is faster:P
[06:40:13] fryfrog: i think i've only ever gotten one failed piece of electronics, a stick of ram that was bad out of the box
[06:40:15] DurtDiggler: no just a pliers and an ice screw driver
[06:40:31] fryfrog: stuff has failed inside warrenty, but very rarely has arrived DOA
[06:40:35] fryfrog: (not that it can't happen)
[06:40:50] DurtDiggler: read some reviews on newegg
[06:41:01] DurtDiggler: youll see it happens to a lotta people
[06:41:38] wagnerrp: has there been any timeline set for the cable transition?
[06:41:40] fryfrog: no offense, but i usually think of those people as people that open their boxes with hammers and tazers :p
[06:41:51] fryfrog: wagnerrp: why would cable switch?
[06:41:53] DurtDiggler: haha
[06:42:01] fryfrog: i mean, why would there need to be a mandate
[06:42:08] fryfrog: the govt. just wanted those airwaves to sell
[06:42:12] wagnerrp: for the same reason the cell network switched
[06:42:16] fryfrog: no airwaves on cable, no reason to care
[06:42:27] wagnerrp: there was no government mandate to switch cell networks to digital
[06:42:41] wagnerrp: they just removed the requirement that they provide analog service
[06:42:45] fryfrog: and again, they did it for teh money
[06:42:55] fryfrog: digital == cheaper
[06:43:03] DurtDiggler: which is wierd cause your talkin about peoples privacy there
[06:43:07] fryfrog: anyway, cable is doing the same thing
[06:43:08] wagnerrp: they didnt resell the cell spectrum did they>
[06:43:26] fryfrog: wagnerrp: no, they re-use it for digital afair
[06:43:37] fryfrog: supports more people, allows for more services
[06:43:38] wagnerrp: AFAIK, cable providers are required to provide analog service
[06:43:39] fryfrog: etc, etc
[06:43:54] fryfrog: but they also provide digital service as well
[06:44:12] wagnerrp: i remember some article where comcast was complaining that they 'had' to recompress the digital channels at a lower bitrate because they were running out of bandwidth
[06:44:21] fryfrog: heck, if they weren't required to provide analog i suspect they'd switch in an instant
[06:44:24] wagnerrp: claiming the government's fault because they have to provide analog cable
[06:44:30] fryfrog: exactly
[06:44:48] fryfrog: they could re-claim those ~70 analog channels and have 140 or 210 digital ones :p
[06:44:50] DurtDiggler: they're all just greedy
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[06:44:56] DurtDiggler: we all know that
[06:45:00] fryfrog: the world runs on greed :)
[06:45:12] wagnerrp: so my question... is there any timeline for the removal of that mandate?
[06:45:22] fryfrog: i dunno, nothing i've heard of
[06:45:26] DurtDiggler: timewarner screwed everyone the most
[06:45:37] fryfrog: most of what i hear is like "OTA analog, going away... cable analog not"
[06:45:39] wagnerrp: i thought i remembered some 2013 date, but i could be making that up
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[06:46:13] fryfrog: i wouldn't mind analog cable going away, but i'd also wish for them to not be retarded with the new space
[06:46:21] fryfrog: also, not have such crappy service and hardware :p
[06:47:44] DurtDiggler: well they are always gonna be retarded
[06:48:18] wagnerrp: i found a post that cable companies will be able to shut off analog in 2009
[06:49:34] DurtDiggler: does digital cable cost more than analog
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[06:50:04] wagnerrp: ah, theyre required to keep analog cable through 2012, so 2013 was right!
[06:50:13] wagnerrp: you get digital cable already
[06:50:21] wagnerrp: all you need is a tuner
[06:50:32] DurtDiggler: digital and analog over the same line?
[06:50:42] wagnerrp: they charge you extra for the decryption code for anything beyond the local channels
[06:51:04] wagnerrp: thats correct, digital uses everything over 500-something MHz, or channel 78 and up
[06:51:32] DurtDiggler: so if I hook my cable line up to a digital tv I wouldn't know the difference
[06:51:55] wagnerrp: well that digital tv will likely be able to receive the analog channels as well
[06:52:12] wagnerrp: but yes, if it has a QAM tuner, you can receive anything the cable co is broadcasting in the clear
[06:52:15] DurtDiggler: well yeah but what Im saying is I can get all te same channels with a digital tuner?
[06:52:32] wagnerrp: no, its a completely different lineup
[06:52:41] DurtDiggler: oh
[06:52:49] wagnerrp: the channels are likely all still available
[06:52:56] wagnerrp: but theyre probably packaged differently
[06:53:02] DurtDiggler: so shoudl I jsut get me a digital card then
[06:53:19] wagnerrp: that depends, most cable cos encrypt everything but local broadcasts
[06:53:25] wagnerrp: some dont
[06:53:41] DurtDiggler: well I pay for more than local broadcast
[06:53:42] wagnerrp: some cable cos block reception of most channels over firewire
[06:53:44] wagnerrp: some dont
[06:53:51] wagnerrp: that doesnt matter
[06:53:57] wagnerrp: theyre encrypted
[06:54:14] DurtDiggler: haha so you pay for it but they won't let you watch it
[06:54:21] wagnerrp: so you either need a cablecard tuner and rented cablecard, or a rented STB
[06:54:51] wagnerrp: its like the scrambled analog channels
[06:55:10] wagnerrp: the basic package you can get straight off the cable
[06:55:15] wagnerrp: anything better and you need a box
[06:55:30] DurtDiggler: well thats the way it is for anything
[06:55:47] DurtDiggler: basica cable and broadcast channels arent the same thing
[06:56:02] DurtDiggler: basic cable is what I get now
[06:56:06] wagnerrp: correct
[06:56:13] DurtDiggler: it's more than just broadcast channels
[06:56:23] DurtDiggler: if I want more I gotta have a box
[06:56:32] wagnerrp: but its the same concept
[06:56:40] wagnerrp: only now its easier for them to restrict things
[06:56:47] DurtDiggler: I just want to knwo if I will still get the basic cable with a digital tuner
[06:56:55] wagnerrp: before, it wasnt work the effort to restrict anything but the premium channels
[06:57:02] wagnerrp: that depends
[06:57:10] wagnerrp: sometimes you can, usually you cannot
[06:57:39] wagnerrp: with my provider, only the local broadcast channels are provided unencrypted
[06:57:45] DurtDiggler: so then your basically saying that it's more expensive to get digital cable
[06:57:46] wagnerrp: beyond that, i need a cable box to access them
[06:57:58] wagnerrp: only because you have to rent the box
[06:58:14] DurtDiggler: I see
[06:58:18] DurtDiggler: well thats gay
[06:58:18] wagnerrp: but as i said, that depends
[06:58:25] wagnerrp: some people have a lot more available unencrypted
[06:58:28] wagnerrp: such that they dont need a box
[06:58:31] wagnerrp: meaning its the same price
[06:58:42] DurtDiggler: oh I'm sure they won't give me anything
[06:58:51] DurtDiggler: it's time warner
[06:58:56] wagnerrp: they HAVE to give you the local broadcast channels
[06:58:58] DurtDiggler: they are a complete rip off
[06:59:20] DurtDiggler: the idiots call me all the time trying to sell me some pile of shit internet service plan
[06:59:52] DurtDiggler: I'm like no thanks what I have you guys can't even come close to matching
[07:00:08] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: on comcast in my area of atlanta, the *only* non-encrypted QAM digital channels were the major networks (NBC, ABC, etc) in HD and all the really, really shitty channels like QVC
[07:00:42] fryfrog: but with an STB over firewire, i could get any channel
[07:00:46] wagnerrp: seems time warner in texas is fairly generous with their unencrypted channels
[07:00:54] DurtDiggler: but they still charge you for basic cable?
[07:01:03] wagnerrp: no, hes renting an STB
[07:01:11] fryfrog: here in Silicon Vallery, my firewire STBs get a lot of channels but i've not got a very stable setup yet :/
[07:01:17] fryfrog: DurtDiggler: no, you only get what you pay for
[07:01:23] wagnerrp: plus you probably have additional tiers of digital cable, beyond the basic
[07:01:32] DurtDiggler: well Im paying for basic cable
[07:01:34] fryfrog: not much beyond
[07:01:40] DurtDiggler: so it seems that I should get basic cable
[07:01:47] fryfrog: i guess i should say, i'm paying for "digital cable" but nothin glike HBO/Showtime/etc
[07:02:04] fryfrog: and i can get pretty much everything via my firewire STB
[07:02:06] wagnerrp: well, you have extended cable, but nothing premium
[07:02:07] fryfrog: that i pay for
[07:02:14] fryfrog: yeah
[07:02:22] fryfrog: i hate comcast and their tiers of service
[07:02:35] fryfrog: i get Discovery HD and TNT HD :)
[07:02:49] fryfrog: (and others, but those are the 2 i <3)
[07:02:50] wagnerrp: everyone does that
[07:02:52] DurtDiggler: I only watch like 3 channels
[07:02:56] wagnerrp: why charge a la carte
[07:02:59] DurtDiggler: but I pay for all sorts of other garbage
[07:03:02] DurtDiggler: thats hwat I hate
[07:03:06] wagnerrp: when you can bundle and charge people for shit they dont want
[07:03:12] fryfrog: i concur, lame tastic
[07:03:32] fryfrog: if i could pick *just* the channels i want, i'd probably actually buy hbo/cinimax/etc
[07:03:38] fryfrog: and leave off a ton of the ones i don't care about
[07:03:40] DurtDiggler: exactly it's not about selling a good product for a good price
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[07:03:59] fryfrog: i wonder if stuff like QVC would be like -$1
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[07:04:01] DurtDiggler: it's about finding ways to force poeple to buy crap they dont want
[07:04:07] fryfrog: so if you sign up for it, they charge you less :p
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[07:04:27] fryfrog: but for example, i wouldn't have all the spanish channels, or the kids only channels
[07:04:34] fryfrog: (i'd still want cartoon network for adult swim)
[07:04:42] DurtDiggler: yeah what the hell do I want a spanish channel for
[07:04:46] DurtDiggler: when I only speak english
[07:04:52] fryfrog: hehe
[07:04:55] wagnerrp: oh come on, spanish talk shows are fantastic
[07:05:11] DurtDiggler: haha well some of the girls are hot on those spanish soap operas
[07:05:24] DurtDiggler: and I love their car commercials
[07:05:26] wagnerrp: who cares what theyre saying
[07:05:41] DurtDiggler: alwyas latina hotties standing around cars in bakinis
[07:06:02] DurtDiggler: but I really don't need it
[07:06:40] wagnerrp: well youre going to have to learn spanish to function in the US eventually
[07:07:01] DurtDiggler: ugh
[07:07:13] DurtDiggler: thats another issue
[07:08:37] fryfrog: not if one of those stupid attempts to declare english as the national language goes through :p
[07:09:01] wagnerrp: funny, i thought english already was the national language
[07:09:08] DurtDiggler: haha
[07:09:12] wagnerrp: and you had to speak it fluently to become naturalized
[07:09:20] DurtDiggler: well isn't it always smarter to make things more complicated
[07:09:27] DurtDiggler: why woudl you want to simplify anything
[07:09:53] DurtDiggler: it's much better to have everything printed in 5 different languages
[07:10:37] wagnerrp: you would like belgium then
[07:10:53] DurtDiggler: I liek making my life more complicated
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[07:11:50] wagnerrp: dutch, french, german, walloon (whatever the hell that is)
[07:12:10] wagnerrp: our old people are a menace on the road
[07:12:22] DurtDiggler: is that where your from
[07:12:24] wagnerrp: their old people speak their own secret language from Wallonia
[07:13:20] DurtDiggler: god now I get to rma my tv card.. plus I have no monitors right now cause Im waiting for my replacements since those both went out
[07:13:21] wagnerrp: no, im a kentuckian, how y'all doin'
[07:13:33] wagnerrp: both failed at the same time, what are the odds
[07:13:41] DurtDiggler: 2 days later
[07:13:45] DurtDiggler: the other one went out
[07:13:53] wagnerrp: same brand/model?
[07:13:58] DurtDiggler: second time
[07:14:12] DurtDiggler: this happened once within 2 weeks of eachother a year ago
[07:14:18] DurtDiggler: a year after I got them
[07:14:20] wagnerrp: heh
[07:14:30] DurtDiggler: now the replacements just both went out
[07:14:37] DurtDiggler: samsungs
[07:14:46] wagnerrp: i had a power supply go out in a sony a few hours after i got it, kept overheating
[07:14:49] DurtDiggler: I don't know whats taking them so long
[07:15:03] wagnerrp: and my samsung was replaced about a year after i got it due to dead pixels
[07:15:08] DurtDiggler: I ordered them on wednesday
[07:15:24] wagnerrp: failed, how?
[07:15:35] DurtDiggler: I'm not even sure what it is
[07:15:46] DurtDiggler: but the power light starts blinking about 3 times a second
[07:15:55] DurtDiggler: and it doesnt turn on or anything
[07:16:02] DurtDiggler: just blinks
[07:16:06] DurtDiggler: as long as it's plugged in
[07:16:36] DurtDiggler: the tech tried to say that it's cause it doenst see a signal
[07:16:45] DurtDiggler: but I think he's confused
[07:16:50] DurtDiggler: I knwo what that looks like
[07:17:02] DurtDiggler: I'm not stupid
[07:17:18] wagnerrp: ive got a POS ~9yr old LCD with an extrenal power supply that would overheat
[07:17:34] DurtDiggler: hah
[07:17:47] wagnerrp: i ended up zip tying a pair of slot 2 heatsinks on either side
[07:17:57] DurtDiggler: haha
[07:18:00] wagnerrp: they were the perfect size
[07:18:04] wagnerrp: havent had a problem since
[07:18:13] DurtDiggler: I'm about to just go buy a new monitor
[07:18:16] wagnerrp: except for the fact that it has about 20 dead vertical lines
[07:18:18] DurtDiggler: tired of watiing
[07:18:39] DurtDiggler: at least it worked for more than a eyar
[07:18:40] DurtDiggler: year
[07:18:54] DurtDiggler: I paid fricken 400 dollars for each of these
[07:19:02] wagnerrp: yeah, the thing worked fine until my mom decided to wash it with windex
[07:19:09] DurtDiggler: I expect them to last longer than a year
[07:19:16] DurtDiggler: haha
[07:19:21] wagnerrp: then it continued to work, but with dead lines
[07:19:23] DurtDiggler: clr
[07:19:32] DurtDiggler: use clr next time
[07:19:34] DurtDiggler: haha
[07:19:52] DurtDiggler: actually commit would be better
[07:19:52] wagnerrp: how about i not use something that will etch the front
[07:20:06] DurtDiggler: I wash mine with commit
[07:20:20] DurtDiggler: nothin cleans them like commet clenser
[07:20:35] wagnerrp: youre supposed to wipe them with a dry, high thread count cloth
[07:20:43] wagnerrp: or if youre really nuts, lens paper
[07:20:55] DurtDiggler: oh I was using brillo bads
[07:20:57] DurtDiggler: pas*
[07:21:00] DurtDiggler: pads*
[07:21:28] DurtDiggler: gotta get those pieces of food off
[07:23:51] phedny: someone here knows something about digital tv signals on cable in the us?
[07:24:02] wagnerrp: what about them
[07:24:11] phedny: is that ATSC?
[07:24:15] wagnerrp: no
[07:24:18] DurtDiggler: I think I heard someone talking about that in here once
[07:24:42] phedny: than ATSC is only terrestrial?
[07:24:43] wagnerrp: digital cable is usually QAM64 or QAM256
[07:24:48] wagnerrp: correct
[07:24:54] phedny: okay
[07:25:00] wagnerrp: typically ATSC tuners can also tune QAM
[07:25:22] phedny: ah, and is that compatible with DVB or is it completelly different?
[07:25:46] justinh: ATSC != DVB
[07:25:48] wagnerrp: DVB is a completely independent set of standards
[07:25:56] phedny: point is: I live in Europe, so I have no way to test it, but I'm quite interested in how it works in the US
[07:26:02] DurtDiggler: would it be smart to get an analog and digital card then and set up my channels to use the digital for the digital channels that are available
[07:26:06] wagnerrp: however all digital TV is handled by the DVB system in linux
[07:26:08] justinh: it probably won't work in the US
[07:26:15] phedny: ok
[07:26:28] justinh: you'll more than likely need a specific ATSC tuner
[07:27:27] phedny: is the bandwidth of these QAM signals 6 MHz?
[07:27:45] wagnerrp: yes, however its a different modulation
[07:27:51] wagnerrp: allowing for almost twice the data
[07:28:07] phedny: now, what I'm wondering:
[07:28:22] phedny: I've been reading the DOCSIS specs (for internet over cable) and the downstream is in a MPEG-2 multiplex
[07:28:42] phedny: so I'd like to know whether I would be able to pick up this multiplex using a QAM receiver
[07:29:00] wagnerrp: really... DOCSIS sends data through mpeg2?
[07:29:09] wagnerrp: seems rather, pointless
[07:29:16] phedny: in the specs they say this is because cable operators can use one frequency for inet downtstream and also for video
[07:29:58] wagnerrp: i suppose
[07:30:00] justinh: for cable internet you need a DOCSIS cable modem or bust
[07:30:32] wagnerrp: well if its in the mpeg2 stream, i dont see why a QAM receiver would not be able to record it
[07:30:50] phedny: wagnerrp: that's exactly what I'm trying to find out
[07:30:50] wagnerrp: but you would probably have to hack the drivers in some manner
[07:31:07] wagnerrp: in order to bypass mechanisms otherwise preventing this
[07:31:19] phedny: is there a QAM receiver that streams a full MPEG2 TS to software (like the DVB-C PCI card I use)
[07:31:33] wagnerrp: all qam receivers stream the full ts
[07:32:08] phedny: nice :)
[07:32:24] wagnerrp: mythtv 0.21 added the ability for 'virtual tuners', such that you could tune multiple channels on the same multiplex from the same tuner
[07:32:37] justinh: next stupid question
[07:32:43] phedny: yes, I use it :)
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[07:33:13] phedny: here in The Netherlands I receive DVB-C using a PCI card
[07:33:31] phedny: for some reason they have chosen the DOCSIS standard for internet, instead of 8 MHz EuroDOCSIS
[07:33:41] phedny: so I cannot test receiving this with my DVB-C card
[07:33:45] justinh: why would you want to record cable internet. I can only assume your intentions are not entirely honourable
[07:33:46] wagnerrp: so the DOCSIS limit of ~40Mbps is because the data stream is not allowed to span multiple channels?
[07:34:39] justinh: wagnerrp: cable providers aren't usually sticklers for any specs or standards
[07:35:01] wagnerrp: i guess since its cable internet, you would be able to record everyone else's downloads in your local area wouldnt you
[07:35:08] wagnerrp: that sounds fun
[07:35:20] phedny: justinh: well, my intentions are only to find out whether my way of thinking is correct
[07:35:39] justinh: sounds illegal & definitely against a cable co's T&Cs to me
[07:35:40] phedny: on top of it is a BPI+ interface for encryption, but I'm just very curious
[07:36:33] justinh: not to mention completely pointless
[07:37:14] phedny: well yeah, is pointless
[07:37:36] phedny: but that's with most hobbies :)
[07:37:53] justinh: hey it's your funeral
[07:39:22] wagnerrp: well BPI is a single pass DES, which is reasonably brute forcible with modern computers
[07:40:48] justinh: my cableco is currently testing 100mbit cable internet services, with 50mbit already available
[07:41:04] justinh: so methinks they're not quite adhering to the docsis spec
[07:41:14] wagnerrp: my telco is pushing 5mbit
[07:41:19] wagnerrp: just look at that raw power!
[07:41:32] justinh: either that or they've found a way to link multiple docsis streams
[07:42:12] wagnerrp: of course my dot-com-era DSL modem is only rated for 7.1mbit
[07:42:12] fryfrog: justinh: jesus!
[07:42:47] phedny: wagnerrp: I'm not going to try that way ;)
[07:42:57] justinh: course it'll still have a contention ratio of 20:1
[07:43:03] phedny: justinh: DOCSIS 3.0 allows spanning over multiple streams
[07:43:29] justinh: I'll look out for your nick in the IT press in a while then, shall I ?
[07:43:35] wagnerrp: 20 people vying for that same 100mbit?
[07:43:52] phedny: I know in The Netherlands it's safe to process any signal you receive .. sending or breaking encryptions is not always allowed
[07:43:53] justinh: wagnerrp: better than 20 people vying for the same 20mbit
[07:44:24] justinh: fucking europeans. anything forbidden is like a red rag to a bull
[07:45:05] phedny: no, as I say
[07:45:09] phedny: processing a signal is allowed
[07:45:20] phedny: but breaking encryptions is not
[07:45:27] justinh: if it's permitted by your cableco T&Cs, maybe
[07:45:31] wagnerrp: whats the difference?
[07:45:36] phedny: it's permitted by law anyway
[07:45:41] wagnerrp: decryption is merely a form of processing
[07:45:48] phedny: wagnerrp: technically? don't know, but legally it's different
[07:46:30] justinh: in the UK you're not allowed to connect your own equipment to the cable. not illegal but if they ever find out their contract permits them to disconnect you
[07:47:05] phedny: so connecting a DVB-C device is not allowed?
[07:47:18] wagnerrp: do they not have filters on the pole to block upstream signals?
[07:47:24] justinh: what IS illegal though is selling their cable boxes on ebay, and they seem to be losing that battle
[07:47:33] justinh: phedny: nope
[07:47:53] justinh: the basic idea is that you get everything from them as part of the overall service
[07:48:13] justinh: cable piracy is a big problem in the UK
[07:48:50] phedny: when I got a signup card from my cable provider for digital TV there was a checkbox whether I'd like to buy a receiver from them or not
[07:50:07] justinh: I had a dbox for a while but got rid of it when we cancelled our payTV packages
[07:50:42] justinh: it's a pity they don't let you use your own gear because often, it's much more responsive than their own middleware-crippled shite
[07:51:10] phedny: yes, it is
[07:51:36] justinh: and if they provided a hardware CAM, I might've been tempted to buy a DVB-C card or two, and never would have cancelled the pay packages
[07:51:38] wagnerrp: oh, but crippleware is fun
[07:52:10] justinh: their own boxes are much better these days, much more reliable software & faster too
[07:52:34] justinh: and we get free on-demand content of the last 7 days major TV shows
[07:52:49] justinh: as well as whole series of older shows
[07:52:57] phedny: that's nice
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[07:53:00] justinh: all without advertising!
[07:53:03] phedny: they're working on that too in .nl
[07:53:05] uosiu: hi all
[07:53:17] clever: justinh: i can do the same thing with mythtv if i just invest in a few TB:P
[07:53:20] justinh: I can see them charging for more on-demand stuff in future though
[07:53:34] phedny: from the public (non-commercial) channels most previous programs can be streamed online for free
[07:53:50] wagnerrp: and a few tens of thousands, for the computers and tuners to handle that many channels
[07:53:58] justinh: clever: well, it turned out that I missed a great comedy 'Love Soup' – no way to watch that other than to buy a box set
[07:54:17] wagnerrp: no legal way anyway
[07:54:24] justinh: nope. no way
[07:54:26] jduggan: justinh: i think they do charge for some on-demand stuff, which is otherwise free on the XL tv package
[07:54:42] jduggan: justinh: sopranos seasons 1 and 2 i recall seeing, which is actually something id like to see heh
[07:54:53] justinh: jduggan: for some yeah but I envisage them charging for a lot more eventually
[07:55:17] justinh: gonna buy a TB HDD soon I think
[07:55:25] justinh: and some more free time!
[07:55:37] wagnerrp: when are the 1.5TB drives supposed to be available?
[07:55:38] phedny: wow, you can buy free time in your country? :)
[07:55:41] justinh: I've not finished watching Spooks yet
[07:56:12] clever: phedny: its called calling in sick days at work and loosing half your paycheck!
[07:56:23] clever: cost you money and gives free time
[07:56:27] justinh: clever: we get paid to be off sick
[07:56:40] clever: justinh: until you run out of sick days:P
[07:56:54] jduggan: i dont think i can run out
[07:57:01] justinh: 5 days would be enough time to catch up on all the telly
[07:57:04] jduggan: if im justifiably ill, i get paid, regardless
[07:57:30] justinh: I think a cut-off point is a few months though
[07:57:40] jduggan: but thats what evenings and weekends are for eh??
[07:58:12] jduggan: i still have season 3 of one tree hill to watch
[07:58:15] jduggan: before moving on to 4
[07:58:17] jduggan: :)
[07:58:17] phedny: justinh: not in .nl, the law tells an employer is not allowed to fire someone for being sick and also obligates him to keep paying money
[07:58:27] justinh: if you can get a viewing in edgeways amid all the fuycking soaps & ITV dirge, yeah!
[07:59:04] phedny: justinh: that's why a lot of small companies will never hire any personel, because if for example an accident happens, they must keep paying non-working personal up to two years
[07:59:33] justinh: 2 years? jesus UK folks would only take the piss
[08:00:06] wagnerrp: they just higher temps and contract workers?
[08:01:40] phedny: that's what sometimes happens
[08:02:08] phedny: or you register your people via a payroller, so legally they are not your personel
[08:02:33] phedny: but that costs like 180% of the salary, but gives you all kinds of assurances
[08:02:51] wagnerrp: well the additional cost is for the benefits
[08:02:57] wagnerrp: medical, taxes, etc...
[08:05:29] justinh: one girl in admin here was off sick for 3 months. they then found out she'd got a new job
[08:06:12] sid3windr: lol
[08:06:16] wagnerrp: isnt that where you talk to the new employer, and the new employer fires them rather than employ a dirty bitch?
[08:06:32] sid3windr: fires them TOO, that is ;)
[08:07:07] wagnerrp: well you wouldnt fire them, you would sue them for insurance fraud
[08:07:29] wagnerrp: and then fire them for being convicted of a felony
[08:08:12] sid3windr: insurance fraud?
[08:08:22] wagnerrp: theyre on on sick pay
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[08:08:44] wagnerrp: i suppose if they never actually seek medical attention, it would have nothing to do with insurance
[08:08:56] justinh: insurance? in the UK? hahahaha
[08:09:02] sid3windr: anarchy in the uk!
[08:09:06] wagnerrp: im sure there would be some mechanism by which to recover that pay
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[08:09:24] wagnerrp: yeah, well you can go screw firearms
[08:09:27] justinh: gah it's that awful autoexpire list again. reminds me I was going to look at that & do it properly
[08:10:29] justinh: hmmm new take on it.. wouldn't it be altogether better just to be able to filter by certain flags in 'watch recordings' instead? ;-)
[08:10:58] justinh: and much easier to code no doubt, let's not forget that!
[08:11:33] justinh: though it might not necessarily be able to let you know when they'd be expired based on current recording stats
[08:11:46] wireddd is now known as wiretestbot
[08:12:31] justinh: course I'd ask for opinions on the -dev list but I now know better than to do that!
[08:13:52] wiretestbot is now known as wireddd
[08:17:50] justinh: svn commit
[08:17:51] justinh: doh
[08:19:30] wagnerrp: focus follows mouse?
[08:19:46] uosiu: hi all
[08:19:49] uosiu: i have a problem
[08:20:03] uosiu: 9:51 [ uosiu @ samhain ] /home/uosiu > mythtv | wklej
[08:20:04] uosiu: -> http://www.wklej.org/id/814f5c5bb4
[08:21:10] justinh: what?
[08:21:40] wagnerrp: youre trying to commit to an IRC channel
[08:21:53] wagnerrp: i was wondering if you have focus-follows-mouse and had moused over the irc window
[08:22:01] justinh: 2008-07–23 09:51:45.357 Unable to read configuration file mysql.txt
[08:22:27] justinh: wagnerrp: no, just typed in the wrong window
[08:22:28] uosiu: justinh: but then is written, that it connected
[08:22:30] wagnerrp: well it still seems to have connected properly
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[08:22:43] justinh: it connected to *A* database
[08:22:47] uosiu: 2008-07–23 09:51:29.080 Connected to database 'mythconverg' at host: localhost
[08:22:58] justinh: sure it connected to *A* database.. was it the right one?
[08:23:26] uosiu: yes, i think so
[08:23:39] uosiu: i've started mythtv 3–4 times last week
[08:23:49] uosiu: and now- that thing appears
[08:24:48] uosiu: oh- and one more thing- I don't have TV card in my box
[08:25:12] wagnerrp: i dont have a card in my primary backend, it doesnt cause any issues
[08:25:18] uosiu: only for listening music and watching movies
[08:25:20] justinh: so obviously you won't have any recordings to watch
[08:25:32] wagnerrp: should still be an empty list
[08:26:28] uosiu: yes
[08:26:31] justinh: why not use er.. something other than mythtv if all you want is to listen to music & watch your movies?
[08:26:39] uosiu: welll
[08:26:42] uosiu: well*
[08:26:44] fryfrog: i have to say, i'd ask the same question :)
[08:26:57] uosiu: fedora have problems with elisa
[08:26:58] fryfrog: heck, i might even get one of those little media devices for the tv
[08:27:14] justinh: everybody has problems with elisa. it's shit
[08:27:15] uosiu: entertainer draws black window, nothin' more
[08:27:26] justinh: freevo?
[08:27:31] uosiu: well
[08:27:36] uosiu: hell knows
[08:27:46] uosiu: but I can remember that name
[08:27:52] justinh: so, rather than use the wrong program, why not get one of the others working?
[08:28:06] wagnerrp: justinh: really... ive been looking for software to run a video player in my parent's motorhome, but i guess Elisa is out
[08:28:52] justinh: elisa is merely a vehicle for fluendo to SELL codecs IMHO
[08:29:07] justinh: closed ones at that
[08:29:46] justinh: and it's surprisingly crashy. I mean mythtv has a certain reputation but bloody hell elisa trounces it!
[08:30:18] uosiu: well
[08:30:37] uosiu: maybe i'll try to change mythtv database to a new one?
[08:30:40] wagnerrp: to be honest, mythtv hasnt crashed on me since 0.20.2
[08:30:51] fryfrog: you must not use firewire STBs :)
[08:30:54] uosiu: and- shit, they server is broken- http://freevo.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/doc/Fedora
[08:30:57] wagnerrp: that i do not
[08:31:12] justinh: uosiu: so if you don't have a tuner card, where is the error in the paste log?
[08:31:29] uosiu: justinh: the last line?
[08:31:40] uosiu: i type mythtv and hit enter
[08:31:44] justinh: duh
[08:31:45] wagnerrp: but after that, it proceeds to stop loading?
[08:31:47] justinh: first mistake
[08:31:56] uosiu: after ~1sec i'm back in the console
[08:31:59] justinh: try mythfrontend instead
[08:32:12] wagnerrp: three years of used and ive never actually tried running 'mythtv'
[08:32:14] justinh: the 'mythtv' command launches the TV viewer/player
[08:32:16] wagnerrp: i dont even know what it does
[08:32:27] uosiu: oh
[08:32:29] clever: wagnerrp: it just runs the internal player on the file its given
[08:32:30] justinh: OH
[08:32:32] uosiu: and one more thing
[08:32:33] clever: wagnerrp: like the mplayer command
[08:32:33] justinh: ***OH***
[08:32:56] clever: ive sometimes ran it on a nuv file because it handled the seeking better
[08:33:00] justinh: dan dan dan .. and another one makes the list!
[08:33:12] uosiu: I have subtitles coded in CP-1250
[08:33:55] phedny: wagnerrp, justinh: does any of you know where I could get a (cheap) QAM receiver (PCI, ethernet?) for shipping to Europe?
[08:34:17] justinh: nope
[08:34:18] uosiu: and mplayer started through mythtvfrontend displays shit on the screen, instead our language-specific characters
[08:34:44] sid3windr: SHIT on the screen.
[08:35:01] justinh: oh that's just typical. I raise a ticket to cancel the order & they've emailed me to say it's just been dispatched
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[08:35:21] justinh: oh well. a tenner down the drain. que sera
[08:37:32] jduggan: what order?
[08:38:25] justinh: the 'free' router :)
[08:38:31] jduggan: ah
[08:38:36] wagnerrp: fonera?
[08:38:41] justinh: turns out it's an ADSL one without a WAN port
[08:39:00] sid3windr: so if you don't accept the package, don't they consider it canceled? ;)
[08:39:10] wagnerrp: is there no integrated switch either?
[08:39:18] justinh: yes it has a switch
[08:39:29] wagnerrp: so just turn off the DHCP server
[08:39:35] wagnerrp: and plug it in through the switch
[08:39:40] fryfrog: woo woo, $10 switch he doesn't need? :)
[08:39:51] justinh: $20
[08:40:12] wagnerrp: $20 for a free Wifi router?
[08:40:21] justinh: £10 is the P&P
[08:40:42] justinh: so even under the distance selling regs I can't get the money back
[08:40:48] justinh: like I said, que sera
[08:42:23] sid3windr: sera
[08:42:57] uosiu: Is there any mplayer magican?
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[08:43:14] justinh: oo apparently this router thingy has a linuxy kernel. nothing on openwrt yet but just maybe...
[08:43:37] wagnerrp: mplayer magician... is that like a pinball wizard?
[08:43:50] MasseR: justinh: What router?
[08:43:51] justinh: more like carpet muncher
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[08:44:08] MasseR: justinh: I too have an linux router, which has no luck for having openwrt
[08:44:20] MasseR: For having ar7 board and probably acx1* chipset wifi
[08:44:21] wagnerrp: someone who likes curly rugs, eh?
[08:44:55] justinh: is openwrt the only game in town for router hacking?
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[08:45:17] wagnerrp: never tried it, only used dd-wrt myself
[08:47:55] justinh: looks like the WGR614 I've reserved at PC World can run that
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[09:06:19] justinh: heh I see a poocast script for dvb recordings is now available. pity it uses python
[09:07:22] wagnerrp: its starting to get light outside, i suppose i should go to bed
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[09:14:07] justinh: heh
[09:14:16] justinh: might already be too late for that then
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[09:46:13] VanessaE: Ok, so I figured out my xvmc issue – driver bug. Downgraded back to something I know worked, but now I have a new problem: xvmc causes mythtv to freeze after watching for a few minutes. When it freezes, it takes the whole console with it for several seconds.
[09:46:52] ivor: so you still have a driver bug. :)
[09:47:22] VanessaE: Video is smooth, CPU is only at maybe 30% total, but still suffering from lots of "prebuffering pause" messages on any amount of CPU usage elsewhere in the system. If I try to use the regular xv-blit driver instead, CPU usage is moderate but not heavy by any means, but the video is choppy.
[09:47:35] VanessaE: (and the program doesn't crash with xv-blit, only xvmc)
[09:47:44] VanessaE: and all of this only affects HD video.
[09:48:42] VanessaE: in short, mythtv can't view HD video on my system anymore. :(
[09:49:58] VanessaE: any clue what all those 'prebuffering pause' messages are caused by?
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[09:50:29] justinh: usually caused by a system not having enough oomph
[09:50:42] VanessaE: heh
[09:50:56] VanessaE: AMD 64x2 3800+ with an nv6800 is more than enough.
[09:50:56] justinh: as an ex-epia m10k owner I know plenty about it
[09:51:06] justinh: video driver issues, too
[09:51:21] justinh: try not using xvmc :)
[09:51:40] VanessaE: xv-blit mode is worse.
[09:51:45] justinh: infact I'd be tempted to say if you can't play HD without xvmc, get a faster CPU
[09:51:51] VanessaE: it uses maybe 40% of my total CPU but the video is so choppy it is unwatchable.
[09:52:20] justinh: xvmc isn't worth a light IMHO
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[09:52:58] VanessaE: Well I'd give up on xvmc entirely if I could get some reason (and a fix) for Xvideo being so choppy.
[09:53:37] justinh: UseEvents not set to 'true' in xorg.conf ?
[09:53:43] VanessaE: it is.
[09:54:01] VanessaE: I've gone through all of those tweaks. Some helped, others did not. None fixed the issue.
[09:54:39] justinh: you are using the nvidia binary driver aren't you?
[09:54:40] VanessaE: I even downgraded to an older kernel from around the time I first got my capture card, since I seem to remember there being fewer problems, but that didn't help either.
[09:54:44] VanessaE: yes, I am.
[09:54:47] justinh: sorry for the stupid question but I have to ask :)
[09:55:26] justinh: you're right though – your system should be more than capable of playing mpeg2 HDTV
[09:55:41] VanessaE: exactly.
[09:55:48] justinh: hell even without xv that should be enough
[09:55:52] VanessaE: and this is just low-bitrate ATSC over-the-air video./
[09:56:12] VanessaE: it's not like I'm throwing a blu-ray rip at this :)
[09:56:20] justinh: if the CPU isn't pegged I'd still say it's a video driver issue
[09:56:36] justinh: ah now here's an idea for you to try
[09:56:39] VanessaE: I've tried 6 different driver revisions so far.
[09:56:46] justinh: play a recording back at 1.1x
[09:56:48] justinh: see how it is then
[09:57:10] VanessaE: the earlier/older video drivers do result in far lower CPU usage, but the video is no better
[09:57:14] VanessaE: ok, let me try that.
[09:57:23] sebrock: I got a really strange issue here... I got a PVR-500 with 2 tuners on it. On one of them sound is not working. On the other it is except for once channle
[09:57:39] justinh: VanessaE: have you tried different deinterlacers?
[09:58:07] VanessaE: not yet.
[09:58:13] VanessaE: for now, I just use linearblend.
[09:58:29] VanessaE: (when I'm using xv-blit. else, bob(2x) with xvmc-blit)
[09:58:40] VanessaE: ok..how do I change the playback speed?
[09:59:30] justinh: press A during playback
[09:59:40] justinh: or press M & bring up the OSD menu & enable timestretching
[09:59:47] ivor: then you need to start looking into whether there's some other problem in your system e.g. dma/memory/interrupt/sata issues, since your spec should be more than enough
[10:00:13] justinh: I'd almost bet money on 1.1x playback being fine
[10:00:27] VanessaE: Ok, it says 1.1x now. Still jumpy
[10:00:32] justinh: oh well
[10:00:43] justinh: so it's not a myth player issue then :)
[10:00:47] ivor: how much money was that bet? :)
[10:01:25] ivor: you could/should also validate using xine/mplayer playing back similar res/bitrate files and see how they behave
[10:01:26] justinh: course now I'll never know if the epia playback buffer problem was ever fixed :)
[10:01:30] ** VanessaE tries 0.5x out of curiosity **
[10:01:35] VanessaE: still jumpy.
[10:01:41] ivor: justinh: mine works just fine thanks. :)
[10:02:02] justinh: ivor: even on stuff with AD streams?
[10:02:20] justinh: I had awful problems with prebuffering pauses. just awful
[10:02:51] justinh: I ended up blaming minimyth's use of bleeding edge everything
[10:02:53] ivor: yeah I recall you mentioning it once or twice. :)
[10:03:21] justinh: well, it's lame hardware, what did I honestly expect? ;-)
[10:03:24] ivor: I found the best option is to use bleeding edge everyting. :)
[10:04:09] ivor: hmmm, I think it's quite interesting/cute/neat hardware but a bit of a handful to get going.
[10:04:29] justinh: I loved it at first, but minimyth just wasn't up to the job
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[10:04:39] justinh: and other distros just took too damn long to boot
[10:04:44] Sulx: archlinux <3
[10:05:00] Sulx: quite bleeding edge stuff for mythtv box
[10:05:03] VanessaE: hm, that stream must be progressive...no feathering even with the deinterlacer turned off.
[10:05:13] justinh: and I thought only assholes used arch, since all the people who came in asking about arch were assholes :)
[10:05:30] ivor: justinh: yeah you really need someone to have packaged up a nice "consumer" style package for one with the best combination of drivers.
[10:05:30] VanessaE: hahah
[10:05:30] Sulx: ;)
[10:05:38] Sulx: justinh: not assholes...just too smart for you ;)
[10:05:42] justinh: VanessaE: ffmpeg -i $filename will tell you
[10:05:59] justinh: Sulx: if by 'smart' you mean people who ask questions but don't listen to anybody
[10:06:19] ivor: justinh: trouble is of course there's too many permutations of hardware/software/disto so you get some people with endless unresolvable problems, and others where everything just works. :/
[10:06:24] Sulx: no...just smart enought to use arch =)
[10:06:29] ivor: ZZzzzzzz
[10:06:38] justinh: minimyth was much better when it was only for Epia kit
[10:07:07] VanessaE: yup, it's 1280x720p.
[10:07:10] VanessaE: so anyway..
[10:07:12] ivor: justinh: aye. ended up making my own netboot setup.
[10:07:24] justinh: well, I'm reddy for de hud now :)
[10:07:45] VanessaE: Are there any known kernel settings that might need to be tweaked?
[10:08:01] ivor: justinh: the few times I tried distros people were using on epias I found the behaviour too unpredictable.
[10:08:07] ** VanessaE runs a generic kernel tweaked for her box... (out-of-kernel capture card driver needs it) **
[10:08:24] justinh: ubuntu played back just fine, but.. digital audio was temperamental
[10:08:34] justinh: btw UK peeps – N800 deal right now: http://hotukdeals.com/visit/?m=2734&q=204712
[10:08:43] VanessaE: I just checked with xine, vlc, and mplayer. xine plays the video almost perfect, mplayed chokes, vlc does so-so.
[10:09:05] justinh: VanessaE: that pins it down as a video driver issue then
[10:09:05] ivor: did mplayer use xvmc?
[10:09:17] VanessaE: no, all three used xv.
[10:12:58] VanessaE: btw, I should qualify this by saying that "choppy" means that it looks like it plays a bunch of frames slightly too fast, then pauses for a split second as if to make up for the excess speed, and then repeat over and over a few times a second.
[10:13:06] VanessaE: does that sound familiar at all?
[10:13:58] justinh: yeah
[10:14:01] justinh: totally
[10:14:17] justinh: is this a remote frontend btw?
[10:14:21] VanessaE: nope.
[10:14:24] VanessaE: all on the same box,
[10:14:32] justinh: rules out network load then
[10:15:05] justinh: could still be a bug in mythtv's buffering code
[10:15:13] ivor: try video as timebase option
[10:15:19] justinh: oops.. not if mplayer has problems too
[10:15:20] VanessaE: ok
[10:15:20] ivor: and a few other of the similar settings
[10:15:21] VanessaE: trying...
[10:15:32] justinh: ivor: I never found they made any difference
[10:15:47] ivor: depends what problem you're having. :)
[10:16:09] VanessaE: no good.
[10:16:13] ivor: sucks
[10:16:54] justinh: wow. LWE has a date for the UK at last
[10:19:04] VanessaE: oh, btw, while it's playing a video in XV mode, all other screen ops get extremely *sluggish*
[10:19:53] justinh: well, do we bother going to London to exhibit mythtv or what?
[10:20:11] justinh: they might still accept an application
[10:20:27] VanessaE: sure, just make sure you put it on a seriously bad-ass box for now, just in case ;)
[10:20:56] justinh: pfft. last time, the guy bringing the hardware thought it'd be fun to reinstall it the night before
[10:21:11] ivor: !
[10:21:12] justinh: I had to get folks to rally round & bring some recordings
[10:21:25] ivor: last time I went the myth stand was very cool.
[10:21:27] ** VanessaE looks at /proc/interrupts. Good G*d that's a lot of IRQ's. **
[10:21:31] ivor: 2006 I think.
[10:21:40] justinh: was it 2006?!
[10:21:54] justinh: hmm it must've been, since I only did LRL last year & there was no LWE
[10:22:17] ivor: or was is the 05 one? I did two in a row and swore never to do another.
[10:22:35] justinh: things going for LWE this year – it doesn't conflict with any important dates – like my wedding anniversary!
[10:22:39] ivor: was I upbeat and chirpy or grumpy and seriously hacked off when you saw me?
[10:23:06] justinh: last time I saw you, you were in a hurry to get into a cab & I help you carry a machine out
[10:23:11] justinh: s/help/helped
[10:23:21] ivor: 06. :) and annoyed.
[10:23:28] sebrock: I need some advice, I only have sound on one of me tuners on PVR+500.. I got no clue on where even to begin... dmesg logs seem fine
[10:23:44] justinh: I thought you were only annoyed because everybody else had fecked up & left you in the thick of it
[10:23:56] ** VanessaE tries xshm mode just out of curiousity. **
[10:24:03] justinh: er.. fecked off I mean, not up
[10:24:15] VanessaE: still choppy and now the video is vertically stretched.
[10:24:23] VanessaE: (and the CPU is at about 70%)
[10:24:45] justinh: I dunno if there's any point trying to preach the mythtv gospel, but the socialising is fun
[10:25:59] VanessaE: xlib is completely unusable .. choppy audio, video is stuck, CPU is riding at about 60%.
[10:27:12] VanessaE: ditto for openGL (but a bit more CPU)
[10:28:27] ivor: justinh: yup that was the reason. but yeah socialising was ok, bumped into a few interesting people.
[10:28:47] ivor: and of course had a good selection of serious crackpots turn up at the stand and harrass me!
[10:30:33] ivor: sebrock: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppaug . . . st_recording
[10:30:38] justinh: muh! why are you copying from windows?!?!?!?!?! I DEMAND YOU TELL ME!
[10:30:47] ivor: sebrock: does that give any clues?
[10:31:20] justinh: we (that is me, stuarta & stuartm) decided after LRL last year we'd only do worthy expos in future, if ever
[10:31:28] ivor: justinh: yup that was one. and oh why are you wasting all your time you should have one desktop environment, it's crazy you guys all doing the same thing on your own just think what you could achieve together.
[10:31:51] ivor: justinh: then there's the I have this really weird problem, let me describe it to you in detail.... and I expect you to tell me how to fix it.
[10:31:56] justinh: it's naieve to say that, and I've been guilty of it in the past
[10:32:07] justinh: sounds like you met Gerv
[10:32:23] ivor: :) the agression in some of the questioning was quite sweet though. :
[10:32:30] justinh: with his "why does mythbackend fall over every 2 minutes?"
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[10:33:03] justinh: he wasn't impressed when I replied with "I don't know. mine's never fallen over like that"
[10:33:23] sebrock: ivor, no Ive been reading that. See it has worked just fine before. Now one tuner works the other dont
[10:33:43] ivor: justinh: superb. I usually give a similar response when people whine about their EPIA's not working. :D
[10:34:07] sebrock: tried all that... and it cant be hardware fault because they share the same audio processor
[10:34:17] justinh: do they?
[10:34:23] justinh: I doubt it
[10:34:37] ivor: sebrock: yeah, just wondered if the ivtvctl commands were any help.
[10:34:46] justinh: they have two of the same encoders onboard, I thought
[10:34:48] VanessaE: even if they did, a hardware fault could be as little as a single I/O line on a control chip that doesn't work, etc.
[10:34:50] justinh: nothing shared
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[10:35:29] VanessaE: (though I'm not saying yours is a hardware fault – that's the last thing I generally blame when something fails)
[10:35:55] sebrock: justinh, maybe you are right
[10:36:01] justinh: what you're saying is not to rule anything out ;)
[10:36:12] VanessaE: precisely.
[10:36:28] sebrock: Im just confused right now
[10:37:04] sebrock: ironically all my problem resided on the frontend before. Now that Ive taken my time to fix it, backend caves in haha
[10:38:45] justinh: hmm no other linux media people exhibiting at LWE in london on.. maybe it's worth a punt
[10:39:04] sebrock: well except one thing on frontend. When I press the key Ive mapped to JumpMainMenu it first says No devices to eject... as if I try to eject a DVD or something
[10:39:32] justinh: oh shite. it IS in conflict with my wedding anniversary. 1st date I read was oct 8th.. it's the 23rd – 25th
[10:39:48] justinh: well, forget about that one then. can't be let off twice
[10:40:25] justinh: how romantic – shacked up in a cold & crappy Earl's Court hotel room by myself on my wedding anniversary. heh
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[10:41:06] justinh: weird, this year it's on a weekend
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[10:54:21] sebrock: thats funny, Main Menu Jumppoint now hangs frontend
[10:54:28] sebrock: with no debug info at all
[10:59:32] sebrock: now its working again
[10:59:56] sebrock: anyways, in which xml is the pip defined?
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[11:57:21] black_Nightmare_: hey
[11:57:51] black_Nightmare_: just wondering about it but is there likely a suggestion list of what kind of cpu power to have for certain multimedia types or its often a user experience 'hit and miss'?
[11:58:16] fryfrog: you can do pretty much anything except h264/x264 with almost any cpu
[11:58:30] fryfrog: x264 playback requires some grunt, but most any modern dual core will handle that
[11:58:54] fryfrog: for example, my 4200+ X2 939 cpu can do 720p x264 but not 1080p
[11:58:59] anykey_: Is there a patch for interlaced pictures with MBAFF/spatial direct mode available? I'm getting loads of errors and no deinterlacing on some HD channels here
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[12:00:45] black_Nightmare_: fryfrog hmm so a lowend (well for skt 479 at 667mhz fsb) core2duo mobile should be able to take everything underneath 264's without a hiccup?
[12:01:40] justinh: anykey_: not the skiploopfilter thingies?
[12:02:07] fryfrog: yeah, i'd say a 1000mhz p3 should be able to do anything but h264
[12:02:11] fryfrog: and maybe HD mpeg2
[12:02:31] justinh: black_Nightmare_: I can play BBC HD (1080i h.264 with godknowswhat) on my C2D T5600 frontend with skiploopfilter
[12:02:35] fryfrog: i'd say a P4 or ~2000+ amd cpu should be okay with HD mpeg2
[12:03:00] justinh: btw *and* deinterlace it
[12:03:02] fryfrog: i think a modern c2d could probably easily do h/x264
[12:03:03] black_Nightmare_: not to sound dumb but whats 'skiploopfilter'?
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[12:03:15] fryfrog: nfi, sorry :)
[12:03:26] justinh: skiploopfilter disables some internal playback processes which improve decoding
[12:03:32] black_Nightmare_: oh ok
[12:03:42] black_Nightmare_: hm well...
[12:03:57] justinh: depending on the source material, YMMV
[12:04:01] justinh: (greatly)
[12:04:20] justinh: saying h.264/x264 you might aswell just say 'a video' FWIW
[12:04:48] justinh: seems there are way more variables at play than with mpeg2 HD streams
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[12:05:39] justinh: for one thing, being able to play h.264 with multiple cores relies on the stream being encoded in slices at the moment
[12:06:33] fryfrog: true, some x264 isn't HD
[12:06:33] black_Nightmare_: hm well I know that they still sometimes perform a bit lower than what they actually look like but anyone played any mpeg4 etc on the via C7's yet?
[12:06:37] justinh: or another, there are all kinds of things other than bitrate & resolution which can impact playback
[12:06:47] justinh: black_Nightmare_: mpeg4 != h.264
[12:06:55] mzb_d800: fryfrog: all ok?
[12:07:05] justinh: I think via tyically mean xvid/divx when they say 'mpeg4'
[12:07:08] fryfrog: mpeg4 is easy, but i dunno about on a C7
[12:07:32] fryfrog: mzb_d800: no post office yet, still workin. I'll prolly hit em up thurs or fri :(
[12:07:40] justinh: I wouldn't bet my house on anything from Via being about to play REAL HD
[12:07:48] mzb_d800: ok, sure
[12:07:53] justinh: s/about/able
[12:08:01] black_Nightmare_: justinh...I wasn't refering to any 264's yet but ^-^
[12:08:22] anykey_: justinh: no, i've got the skiploopfilter ;-)
[12:08:37] anykey_: justinh: but some interlaced channels won't deinterlace
[12:08:39] black_Nightmare_: just thinking about mpeg4 more like how mpeg2 is to retail dvds .. if you get what I'm saying
[12:08:48] justinh: I'm referring to not holding your breath for via to produce a low powered motherboard which can deliver the goods
[12:09:51] justinh: black_Nightmare_: bluray? FWIW, consider only 'real' computing solutions. Via are small, cute etc but expensive for what they are. $ for $, buy real gear everytime IMHO
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[12:10:33] justinh: there never really has been any substitute for throwing CPU power at the issue of video playback in linux
[12:10:48] justinh: unless you're willing to make serious compromises
[12:11:04] black_Nightmare_: justinh...hm? a whole C7 board costs less than what just the cheapest mobile core processor alone can cost .. I guess thats why they still keep making improvements and people keep buying
[12:11:30] justinh: so don't buy new mobile CPUs – plenty of good uns on ebay
[12:11:51] Sulx: maybe Atom based integrated board
[12:11:52] justinh: I got my T5600 CPU for less than £40 & it's just fine
[12:12:03] black_Nightmare_: one particular against-epia suggestion I do tell others at times tho is to not bother trying ask for dvd playback or so on the original 500mhz epia's .. these only had an early Trident graphics instead of the well known unichrome series
[12:12:06] justinh: Sulx: for SDTV, maybe
[12:12:22] black_Nightmare_: justinh...and where's the warrenty on these? ^_^ (well...I am being a bit literal)
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[12:12:31] ivor: black_Nightmare_: actually... being a pedant... the trouble is driver support.
[12:12:46] justinh: black_Nightmare_: you're at the mercy of the seller, be careful
[12:12:49] justinh: worth the risk IMHO
[12:13:02] ivor: the pre-unichrome s3 chips actually did have macroblock accelleration... just no drivers.
[12:13:24] ivor: (on the other hand... who knows if it actually worked)
[12:13:53] ivor: s/s3/trident/
[12:13:56] ivor: :)
[12:14:01] black_Nightmare_: ivor hm well only the original 500mhz had no unichrome as far as I know ... anything newer (usually a hint is no yellowish-brown pcb colour) do ;)
[12:14:10] justinh: black_Nightmare_: also be aware that S479 != Socket M – there are 2 variants of S479 .. or was it S478? anyway the mobile C2D pinout
[12:14:23] justinh: I found that out the hard way
[12:14:24] ivor: what was it called... ProSavage I think or something.
[12:14:42] black_Nightmare_: ivor..I think 'prosavage' was actually the name to budget Sis agp cards
[12:14:50] ** ivor heads off to google **
[12:14:50] justinh: Socket M (Merom) & Socket P.. something else. same number of pins but incompatible
[12:15:05] black_Nightmare_: Sis is still in pcie video card business tho .. but I don't think they make much sales at all
[12:15:26] justinh: plenty of motherboards with integrated SiS controllers, of that you can be sure
[12:16:02] black_Nightmare_: ugh... ok didn't realized about P .. that makes it at least $300+ for a lowend processor now
[12:16:05] black_Nightmare_: >_<
[12:16:08] justinh: anyway what I'm saying is, don't hold your breath if you're expecting to find a low powered Via system that'll play HD
[12:16:48] justinh: black_Nightmare_: don't disregard 2nd user CPUs
[12:17:09] justinh: they mostly come from people ugrading laptops.. people who know what they're doing
[12:18:02] justinh: besides, if you whack a big enough heatsink on any C2D chip you can cool it passively
[12:18:57] justinh: there we go.. T7200 chips going for around £70 on ebay right now
[12:19:14] justinh: but then a C2D 2Ghz for a desktop is less than even that IIRC
[12:19:34] ivor: black_Nightmare_: aha! yes. VIA ProSavage PN133
[12:19:42] justinh: infact I wouldn't be surprised if you could almost buy a quad core cpu for that
[12:21:59] ivor: there we go... features: "DVD Motion Compensation"
[12:22:06] black_Nightmare_: hm well just asking but any thought on 945GM verus GM965 for intel?
[12:24:38] justinh: wouldn't have said it'd make any difference
[12:24:55] justinh: not for mythtv anyway
[12:25:58] black_Nightmare_: hm ok
[12:26:15] black_Nightmare_: 3 boards have the former and just one (a msi industrial board, no wonder) has latter
[12:26:29] black_Nightmare_: [well of the several boards from one store that I'm looking at anyway]
[12:27:29] justinh: any mention of the C7 & HDTV I can find seems to point to the boards not being capable of VC-1 which renders em impotent
[12:28:03] AndyCap: do any use VC-1 for broadcast or is it just discs?
[12:28:13] justinh: both IIRC
[12:28:27] ivor: the Chrome9 chips are supposed to be doing VC1
[12:29:20] justinh: I've never said I wouldn't be tempted to try a via board again if they ever come up with the goods & if the price is right
[12:29:41] justinh: but the epia m-10k is still nearly a hundred quid ffs
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[12:30:11] ** ivor shrugs **
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[12:30:32] ** ivor whips out a tiny violin **
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[12:31:11] justinh: they're expensive for what they can do, is all I'm saying. nevermind the form factor
[12:31:27] ivor: yeah but there's a premium for the form factor
[12:32:28] AndyCap: anyone tried atom based itx?
[12:32:32] black_Nightmare_: the MII10000 is actually rather cheap close to here
[12:32:59] black_Nightmare_: but the MII12000 oddly enough has a sharp price increase like its still quite in demand
[12:33:20] AndyCap: http://www.tranquilpc-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Motherboards.html
[12:33:30] justinh: there was an atom board on hotukdeals yesterday for under £50
[12:34:23] ivor: funky. someone buy one and see how they work.
[12:34:44] AndyCap: G945 chipset though for graphics. there is promise of a low-power chipset as well.
[12:34:56] ivor: VGA out only.
[12:35:01] justinh: http://www.lambda-tek.com/componentshop/index . . . =0&go=go
[12:35:15] AndyCap: yeah. I've seen one from gigabyte? with hdmi
[12:35:53] black_Nightmare_: andy...I've actually skipped these by a long way .. lets just say they're lacking in features for what I'll like (and who has heard of finding a 3-pci riser on budget anyway? heh)
[12:36:12] AndyCap: black_Nightmare_: 3-pci in your frontend?
[12:36:20] AndyCap: what do you use it for?
[12:36:27] black_Nightmare_: andycap..to add the pci cards to make up for lack of onboard ^_^
[12:36:30] black_Nightmare_: but to our own anyway
[12:36:33] justinh: last I heard about the atom boards was that the northbridge power consumption totally negated the savings on the CPU
[12:36:35] ivor: any pci's in a frontend? that'd be like having a hard drive in there. :P
[12:36:54] ivor: yeah I read that too. quite amusing. on the reg or the inq I think.
[12:37:00] justinh: still lower power than most desktops though
[12:37:21] ivor: did you read the review of the tosh with the cell in it?
[12:37:26] justinh: but if you're looking to save the planet, power savings on your frontend are really the very last place to start looking
[12:37:40] ivor: 20watts just for the cell. gulp.
[12:37:41] AndyCap: ORLY.
[12:37:42] justinh: don't remember it
[12:38:09] ivor: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2 . . . -uber-laptop
[12:38:26] ivor: the summary at the end is excellent.
[12:39:01] justinh: AndyCap: RLY. buy a more economical car, use less air-conditioning at home, share baths.. etc :)
[12:39:27] AndyCap: justinh: yes. I know. :)
[12:39:56] jduggan: my grandad used to make me share baths with him during the summer of 95, to conserve water
[12:40:04] jduggan: i say my grandad, more a friend of my grandads
[12:40:11] justinh: I'm still slightly concerned by my own backend though.. over 100W 24/7
[12:40:16] AndyCap: O_o
[12:40:28] justinh: I bet most of that is the nvidia card doing nothing
[12:40:51] ivor: justinh: should check mine. it's pretty stripped down, but has a few SATA's in it on permanently.
[12:41:03] mzb_d800: fryfrog: not sure if my pocket will last 2 or 3 days ... just looking at X2 4200 + 1GB au$210
[12:41:06] justinh: jduggan: 0800 1111 !
[12:41:10] ivor: although it does do mail/web/stuff also.
[12:41:17] AndyCap: Kontron KTUS15 has a different chipset http://shorl.com/fuprajogapila
[12:41:57] justinh: I don't really need my backend on 24/7 at all – there are at least 12 hours a day when it could be off
[12:42:17] justinh: but I hate to think what all that cycling will do to it
[12:43:27] ivor: justinh: yeah, might give it a go, pull the web/mail stuff onto a reeeeally low power box, move the storage to a network attached widget and get the backend powering down./
[12:43:49] ivor: I'll add it onto my todo list
[12:44:10] ** AndyCap just turns off the heaters instead. :P **
[12:44:26] ** ivor doesn't have heaters in the server room. **
[12:44:42] GreyFoxx: My basement, where we spend most of our time, is heating by the PC's
[12:44:46] GreyFoxx: err heated
[12:44:56] justinh: I just got rid of my S100 boxes too
[12:44:58] GreyFoxx: we don't turn the heat on down there
[12:44:59] ivor: GreyFoxx: you spend most of your time in the basement?
[12:45:02] black_Nightmare_: either way andycap what I was actually looking for in video&audio at minimum were: vga, svideo-out, optional component-out, analog 4.1 audio with still able to use a mic at same time as well, optional coaxial digital output
[12:45:09] GreyFoxx: ivor: Thefamilyroom + hometheatre room
[12:45:14] justinh: and the flea-pea aye ay went ages ago
[12:45:19] ivor: GreyFoxx: ah... I had horrible visions forming.
[12:45:22] GreyFoxx: flatscreen+projector are down there
[12:45:32] black_Nightmare_: neverminding three other hardware features too
[12:45:33] mzb_d800: GreyFoxx: PC controlled climate control ;)
[12:45:35] justinh: it'll keep the damp out for sure GreyFoxx :)
[12:45:59] jduggan: justinh: lol, it was a joke :P (stolen from ricky gervais, doesnt have the same effect via IRC :P)
[12:46:14] justinh: had the same effect here
[12:46:31] justinh: ricky gervais being about as hilarious as cancer
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[12:46:48] ivor: oh dear. sourpuss. :)
[12:47:05] black_Nightmare_: andycap hope that helped ^-^
[12:47:08] ** ivor goes off to google some good cancer jokes **
[12:47:15] justinh: I love comedy, I just find RG too cringe-inducing
[12:47:31] ivor: aye, it's a fine line.
[12:47:48] justinh: family guy are regularly crossing that line these days too :(
[12:48:10] ivor: tbh I think he usually balances carefully on the line and only dips into fist biting cringeness occasionally.
[12:48:19] ivor: but that's part of the beauty of that style of comedy.
[12:48:29] ivor: diffent tastes and all taht I guess.
[12:49:33] justinh: Gervais is like marmite :)
[12:49:39] ivor: I love marmite
[12:50:11] justinh: I'm not kidding when I say the first time I tried marmite I was tempted to lick the dog to rid myself of the taste
[12:50:33] ivor: there you go. your theory is thoroughly validated and peer reviewed. :D
[12:54:11] jduggan: justinh: you dont like gervais?
[12:54:17] jduggan: :\
[12:54:28] jduggan: thats wots brilliant about him, is the cringe factor
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[12:55:57] laga2: hello.
[13:01:41] rsdvd: justinh : thanks for the S100s......not been on since, but I thought I would let you know they arrived OK and are working hard :-)
[13:02:37] laga2: nice. what OS are you using?
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[13:05:22] black_Nightmare_: well I'm going for now
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[13:08:10] justinh: rsdvd: cool. figured if there'd been owt wrong you'd have been in touch before now
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[13:10:26] tcpsyn: morning
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[13:11:49] tcpsyn: I thought I was finally through with playing with xorg.confs...
[13:11:51] tcpsyn: but noooo.
[13:11:56] justinh: ROFLMAO
[13:12:04] justinh: just got a machine back from a show demo rack
[13:12:04] tcpsyn: I just got a directv dvr
[13:12:11] tcpsyn: so I only want to use my mythbox for videos
[13:12:16] justinh: the HDD is gaffa taped to the chassis ffs
[13:12:22] tcpsyn: and since it's a badass box, I want that to be my primary machine.
[13:13:03] tcpsyn: so that means.. I gotta set up 2 x servers
[13:13:09] tcpsyn: one for the vga and one for the dvi
[13:13:09] justinh: hard drive, gaffa taped to the chassis. jesus
[13:13:14] tcpsyn: and that's always a pain in the arse
[13:14:19] sebrock: mmm.. no way to render the channle logos better? I got a crappy analog signal and the logos from my channles looks like **** in OSD
[13:14:27] sebrock: any workaround
[13:14:59] sid3windr: (channel) ;)
[13:16:03] jduggan: sebrock: yea, dont use them
[13:16:03] jduggan: :P
[13:16:13] justinh: sebrock: depends where they're sourced from – if they come in as low res GIFs, they stay as low-res shitty GIFs
[13:16:58] justinh: chances are they're coming in as low res GIFs :D
[13:17:29] justinh: add to that the fact the OSD is rendered at the current video resolution
[13:18:23] justinh: so if your video is being played at 320x240, the OSD will be
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[13:23:41] justinh: hmm there's an idea that never occurred to me before. plonk the channel icon graphic somewhere other than on the OSD info bar itself, like a corner of the screen
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[13:27:08] sebrock: justinh, yes, its crappy 320x240
[13:27:16] sebrock: or something like that
[13:27:25] sebrock: icons are 100x100 pngs
[13:27:59] sebrock: and are those that are provided from my sources. However they look great in EPG and so on.. so its just that OSD
[13:28:09] justinh: most OSD themes only show them at 50x50 max
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[13:28:21] sebrock: upscaling video somehow heh :D
[13:28:24] sebrock: ?
[13:28:50] sebrock: justinh, Ah, right! I might change that
[13:28:55] justinh: I'm not sure if the OSD is ever rendered at the full res rather than just the current video res these days
[13:29:15] justinh: I know it always WAS scaled to the video res before but I dunno about now
[13:29:21] sebrock: to bad I still live in a flat with shared digital tv
[13:29:33] sebrock: them suckers output it at lower analog to all flats
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[14:07:52] justinh: bah still not banned from the forum & I tried so hard :(
[14:10:04] jduggan: try hotlinking to a pic of goatse
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[14:12:08] laga2: what forum? maybe i can arrange something ;)
[14:12:18] justinh: mythtvtalk.com
[14:12:23] laga2: heh
[14:12:28] laga2: i'll take a look later..
[14:12:42] justinh: though I've successfully been staying away by myself
[14:12:44] laga2: spamming for chinese shoe sweatshops is a good idea if you want to get banned
[14:12:51] laga2: i spend thirty minutes cleaning up last night.
[14:13:08] justinh: ahh, I thought just using the 'c' word would be enough
[14:14:19] justinh: still, wonder what's wrong (or not wrong) with me to not treat all the noobs as cuddly & fuzzy people. hate just isn't a strong enough word anymore
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[15:13:17] rambo3: Why is white-power.com sponsoring mythtv
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[15:19:14] GreyFoxx: ummm what ?
[15:19:27] GreyFoxx: Noone sponsers mythtv
[15:19:29] wagnerrp: white-power, you know... Apple?
[15:19:50] iamlindoro_: GreyFoxx: Resident troll
[15:19:50] iamlindoro_: (ie myth chess plugin, etc.)
[15:20:01] GreyFoxx: ahhh one of those
[15:20:21] wagnerrp: man, mythchess would be awesome
[15:20:41] rambo3: no it wouldn't
[15:20:59] GreyFoxx: controlling chess pieces with a remote would suck :)
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[15:21:10] wagnerrp: you dont understand the power of the white chess pieces
[15:21:45] rambo3: GreyFoxx: media portal has it, as long as there is no time limits it is ok to play
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[15:22:08] rambo3: with a remote
[15:22:15] rambo3: Wii remote
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[15:43:53] kslater: fryfrog – reading the mythlogbot history – you say you have a couple of air2pc cards you don't use? Want to sell one?
[15:44:27] sid3windr: air2pc ?
[15:45:26] iamlindoro_: sid3windr: Digital tuner cards
[15:45:31] iamlindoro_: ATSC/QAM
[15:46:32] iamlindoro_: They're the predecessors to the pcHDTV 5500
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[15:48:49] sid3windr: aha
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[15:49:58] kslater: I have one already, but I could use another one with the new frontend
[15:50:09] kslater: more cards == less unsolvable conflicts
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[15:50:17] sid3windr: :)
[15:50:40] sid3windr: so why does everyone think I'm crazy with dvb-t, dvb-c, pvr500 and pvr150 for stb
[15:50:43] sid3windr: ;>
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[15:51:19] kslater: doesn't matter what others think. does it provide you with value? that's the only question
[15:51:39] iamlindoro_: Doubt anyone thinks that too crazy... I have lots of tuners
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[15:52:21] iamlindoro_: 2 x Firewire STBs, 3 x QAM Tuners, 1 x ATSC
[15:52:22] sid3windr: well, in this channel probably noone thinks so
[15:52:27] sid3windr: but when I tell people about the setup.. ;)
[15:52:30] sid3windr: they're just jealous!
[15:52:35] sid3windr: :>
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[16:27:44] rambo3: Sup
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[16:31:05] justinh: wtf? aaanyway now all wirelessly :)
[16:31:52] J-e-f-f-A|work: sid3windr: I'm currently running a PVR-500, HD-3000, HD-5500 and HVR-1250... ;-)
[16:32:54] J-e-f-f-A|work: sid3windr: plus lots of disk space... 2.4TB for my recordings... ;-)
[16:33:03] sid3windr: myeah
[16:33:05] sid3windr: only 1TB here ;)
[16:33:23] justinh: irc in the gardin! yay!
[16:33:36] sid3windr: justinh: through the new useless free wireless router? ;)
[16:33:41] J-e-f-f-A|work: Raid5 ...  ;-) and a 200GB raid1 system disk... ;-)
[16:34:13] J-e-f-f-A|work: justinh: wireless hardly works outside my house due to my Aluminum Siding... :-(
[16:34:31] justinh: sid3windr: nah bought a different one from pcworld for 25 of your Earth GBP
[16:35:03] justinh: allegedly capable of running open source firmware too, not that I'll be bothering for ages
[16:35:28] justinh: jeesis only 2 signal bars though
[16:35:44] i_is_cat: hey man dont be blaming the rest of us earthings for those gbp's
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[16:35:54] i_is_cat: earthlings that is
[16:35:58] justinh: might yet be able to run the other one in AP mode when it arrives
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[16:36:37] i_is_cat: anyone know how to get the ir blaster working on the mceusb2 box dealer that came with my pvr 150?
[16:36:44] i_is_cat: input from the remote works fine..
[16:36:56] justinh: oh joy the admin password fields don't work in firefox :-\
[16:37:29] i_is_cat: well fine as in the pvr 350 remote works perfectly on the mceusb thing but the remote that came with the mceusb thing only registers every second button press for some weird reason
[16:37:30] J-e-f-f-A|work: justinh: for your router? Humm... what brand?
[16:37:58] justinh: oops. yes they do
[16:38:07] iamlindoro_: i_is_cat: Aside from http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/MCE_Remote#IR_Blasting?
[16:38:40] i_is_cat: ya i checked it out
[16:38:47] iamlindoro_: Well, that's all there is to it
[16:38:47] J-e-f-f-A|work: <ugh... can't test mine on my box now... Firefox is already running on the primary display, won't let me run on the NX display for some reason... oh well... time for lunch anyways!>
[16:38:55] i_is_cat: the irsend says transmission failed
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[16:39:22] justinh: there we go. all access listy aswell :)
[16:39:29] ** J-e-f-f-A|work leaves for lunch... **
[16:39:32] iamlindoro_: irsend --help
[16:39:40] iamlindoro_: and specify your lirc device
[16:40:31] ** iamlindoro_ remembers he refuses to troubleshoot LIRC and shuts up **
[16:41:41] i_is_cat: iamlindoro, i tried specifying the device checked the help file im at a loss but thanks :)
[16:41:56] justinh: heheh mythweb streaming wirelessly too. niftyness. I could be turned into a convert yet
[16:42:06] xris: heh
[16:42:18] xris: my phone doesn't do streamiing video. he
[16:42:28] iamlindoro_: i_is_cat: pastebin your lircd.conf, and the irsend command you are trying to use
[16:42:55] i_is_cat: k one sec i gotta go to the pc i did it on
[16:43:22] justinh: whee four bars upstairs. all I could ask for
[16:43:34] justinh: time to walk the doggle or he'll be pissed
[16:44:49] iamlindoro_: It's your carpet that'll be pissed
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[16:51:31] i_is_cat: heres my lircd.conf http://pastebin.com/m7a8f11a7
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[16:52:00] SeaWeed: good morn all
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[16:52:29] i_is_cat: and i did this: irsend LIST att "" ... irsend SET_TRANSMITTERS 1 ... irsend SEND_ONCE blaster 1_82_KEY_POWER
[16:52:57] iamlindoro_: i_is_cat: you are using a lircd.conf for an onboard PVR-150 blaster, not the mceusb
[16:53:22] iamlindoro_: those raw codes will never work with the mceusb blaster
[16:53:29] i_is_cat: well then
[16:53:32] iamlindoro_: That's why it's failing
[16:53:41] i_is_cat: that would be an awesome reason why its failing
[16:53:51] iamlindoro_: And also likely why the included remote isn't working properly
[16:54:10] i_is_cat: well i did an irrecord for the remote
[16:54:29] iamlindoro_: What is the remote whose codes you are trying to blast?
[16:55:09] i_is_cat: i really dont know.. i've got a motorola dct 6000 and i was trying all the motorola codes that were listed
[16:55:32] i_is_cat: but the remote is only branded with the cable companies name
[16:55:33] iamlindoro_: OK. All the moto boxes use the same codes, so hang on a second
[16:55:46] iamlindoro_: (except the DCT 700, that is)
[16:55:46] SeaWeed: got a issue with newer rev of trunk compiled fine and now when i try to run mythfrontend i get segfault and crash's out on me currious what i may be missing here is my error
[16:55:48] SeaWeed: http://pastebin.com/d7d215065
[16:56:17] iamlindoro_: SeaWeed: Did you check the issue tracker? (no)
[16:57:21] iamlindoro_: http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/5137 You compiled w/ old shared libraries from a QT3 build in the myh install directories
[16:58:01] SeaWeed: Hum ill check into that thank for insight .
[16:59:37] iamlindoro_: i_is_cat: create a new lircd.conf and add the following two codesets: http://lircconfig.commandir.com/lircd.conf/?viewremote=31
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[17:01:34] iamlindoro_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallLirc . . . .conf.mceusb
[17:01:58] iamlindoro_: That will allow you to receive the included mceusb remote fine, and should allow you to blast the Moto cable box with something like:
[17:02:19] iamlindoro_: irsend SEND_ONCE DCT2000 POWER
[17:02:25] iamlindoro_: (to send a power button)
[17:02:46] iamlindoro_: you may or may not have to restart the daemon, BTW
[17:03:46] i_is_cat: hmm ok one sec thanks :)
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[17:04:09] i_is_cat: is that for the black remote btw?
[17:04:27] iamlindoro_: They're all the same codeset
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[17:05:07] iamlindoro_: That said by someone who owns nearly all the MCEUSBs in one form or another :)
[17:05:16] i_is_cat: ya i read that part but they seem to have different labelled buttons.. it should be all good i'll irw them to find out which ones are which..
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[17:07:23] iamlindoro_: The only real difference is that some have color-name buttons (Red, Blue, etc.) and some have the "My TV," "My DVD," etc.
[17:07:57] iamlindoro_: but they're still the same buttons, and it doesn't matter what LIRC thinks they're called... makes no difference whatsoever to the end user if they're called "Bob," "Fred," and "Queequag"
[17:13:26] i_is_cat: omg :O it works!@! :O you are the man!@ thanks so much! :D
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[17:14:27] iamlindoro_: you are welcome
[17:14:46] iamlindoro_: Thank you for not being the usual semi-retarded LIRC troubleshooter :)
[17:15:06] iamlindoro_: Which is why I usually refuse to troubleshoot it in the first place :)
[17:16:26] i_is_cat: lol no problemo :) i knew it had something to do with the settings i just couldnt seem to figure out what exactly :| but this is freakin sweet now this box is starting to be a wicked pvr
[17:16:55] iamlindoro_: Yeah. Getting that out of the way goes a long way towards making myth usable
[17:17:20] i_is_cat: and my uncle gets a surprise when he comes home that should make him happy i think the only thing left now is getting the hdmi to work :|
[17:17:54] i_is_cat: at least until new hardware gets purchased that is hehe
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[17:18:22] i_is_cat: ran out of space on the 750gb so fast we had to get a 1tb to put in it :S
[17:19:55] iamlindoro_: Good thing drives are getting so cheap
[17:20:23] justinh: hmmm I need to install mythmovietimes on my frontend
[17:20:28] justinh: damn useful
[17:20:35] jduggan: would be
[17:20:45] jduggan: if i had time to go watch a movie
[17:20:47] jduggan: :o
[17:20:48] justinh: I fixed the grabber for my own use :)
[17:20:56] jduggan: nice
[17:21:00] jduggan: is it a scraper
[17:21:29] justinh: yup
[17:21:50] justinh: they all are though
[17:22:11] justinh: if there was an xml feed or just a page we'd be allowed to scrape I'd submit it
[17:29:03] jduggan: too much upkeep to bother with a scraper :P
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[17:52:13] Ryushin: Okay, looks like I'm going with the HD-PVR sooner than I thought. Moving to DirectTV. Is anyone using the HD-PVR on a regular basis? I read the link in the wiki and it says the it can't be used for regular use yet as it's missing a lot of functionality such as changing channels and such.
[17:52:47] iamlindoro_: The Wiki is up to date
[17:52:56] wagnerrp: i remember something about the driver being good for one channel change, and then it had to be reloaded
[17:53:11] iamlindoro_: There is no IR blaster/receiver support yet, LiveTV has some major issues, tons of functionality in myth not yet implemented
[17:53:31] iamlindoro_: and 1080i capture has major major problems with playback
[17:53:37] iamlindoro_: 720p is more or less stable, though
[17:53:51] wagnerrp: maybe it was a problem with being unable to change resolutions
[17:54:02] iamlindoro_: wagnerrp: yeah, still present
[17:55:46] Ryushin: Well, that is a bummer.
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[17:55:57] Ryushin: I guess I have no choice but to wait.
[17:57:09] wagnerrp: any idea what the current back order on units is?
[17:57:19] Ryushin: Also reading the wiki, it looks like they are trying to close the analog hole now as well.
[17:57:46] wagnerrp: if they close the 'analog hole', that just means you have another $350 in equipment to buy
[17:57:56] wagnerrp: but i seriously doubt they will get that passed
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[18:08:35] abqjp: Ryushin: as long as I limit the output on my Directv H20 to 720p, the HD-PVR works pretty well. I currently get around 1:10 shows which don't record correctly, and have to be rescheduled.
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[18:13:33] Ryushin: abqjp: Are you using a blaster to change the channels on DirectTV?
[18:14:08] iamlindoro_: Ryushin: His STB has USB control, so he uses that
[18:14:21] iamlindoro_: you can also use any other IR Blaster, Firewire, or whatever, just not the one on the HD-PVR itself
[18:15:01] abqjp: Right, I use USB to control the H20
[18:15:05] Ryushin: That works.
[18:15:27] Ryushin: I guess I'll order 3 of them, and get 7 DirectTV boxes.
[18:15:44] abqjp: Gads, 7?
[18:15:50] wagnerrp: why 7, rather than 3
[18:16:12] abqjp: I have two HDHomeruns, giving me 4 OTA, plus two Directv boxes.
[18:16:24] Ryushin: 2 for my myth box, 1 for the wife's pc running beyondtv, and enough for 4 other TV's.
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[18:16:48] wagnerrp: you have two separate DVR programs running...
[18:17:44] Ryushin: wagnerrp: Until Myth run's well on windows for my Wife, yea.
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[18:18:13] wagnerrp: well for my purposes, it runs well enough
[18:18:19] wagnerrp: but i almost never watch live tv
[18:18:33] Ryushin: I have two pcHDTV cards for my OTA HD. So that works well for me.
[18:18:50] Ryushin: My wife almost watches live tv exclusively on her computer.
[18:19:10] Ryushin: She surfs and has a window running the TV.
[18:19:19] abqjp: Ryushin: you should note, that while the HD-PVR works well enough for me, it is not easy to get working in the first place, if you have no experience building Myth from source.
[18:19:23] Ryushin: Though, maybe I can just get away with svideo for that.
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[18:20:51] Ryushin: abqjp: I've been doing linux since kernel .74. So yea, I'm very familiar with compiling from source.  :)
[18:20:55] dustybin: iamlindoro_: im seriously thinking about buying this unit, its fairly cheap and will fit under my desk perfectly
[18:20:58] dustybin: iamlindoro_: http://www.homestead.co.uk/productcategorydet . . . goryid=54348
[18:21:12] dustybin: 10U is more than enough for home network
[18:21:48] Ryushin: I have a 72U cabinet, and it's 3/4 full with gear.
[18:21:57] dustybin: Ryushin: bloody eck
[18:22:09] iamlindoro_: Looks like a nice little rack. Doubt you will want it under your desk though
[18:22:11] AndyCap: Ryushin: apart from the fact that there never was a .74 kernel.
[18:22:16] dustybin: iamlindoro_: why not?
[18:22:20] iamlindoro_: LOUD
[18:22:31] Ryushin: I'm a network/security/unix engineer.
[18:22:37] dustybin: iamlindoro_: i will put in my own built silent 2U server
[18:22:50] dustybin: all the components i will build myself
[18:23:03] iamlindoro_: k
[18:23:13] Ryushin: AndyCap: I'm pretty sure that is what I started with. Linux was on 2 floppies at that point.
[18:23:27] dustybin: iamlindoro_: a lot of those type of cabinets have doors? surely thats no good for keeping your equipment cool?
[18:23:49] wagnerrp: well they also have copious fans
[18:24:01] wagnerrp: some have integrated AC
[18:24:03] AndyCap: Ryushin: nope. but there were a couple of distros that were on two floppies. Toms root & boot and MCC
[18:24:04] dustybin: ok
[18:24:24] iamlindoro_: dustybin: as wagnerrp says. Also usually little ducts in the top and the backs are often/usually perforated
[18:24:36] dustybin: this is a extra for that unit
[18:24:38] dustybin: http://www.homestead.co.uk/productcategorydet . . . goryid=54354
[18:25:04] dustybin: i bet those are noisy
[18:25:17] Ryushin: AndyCap: No, it was way before tomsrtbt.
[18:25:39] dustybin: wagnerrp: do you think at normal average room temps, a server, firewall and switch would be kept cool enough with the door closed
[18:26:20] wagnerrp: no idea, never used racked equipment
[18:26:24] dustybin: ok
[18:26:47] dustybin: i think a little mini rack for your home network is a perfect way of keeping everything together
[18:27:26] dustybin: i might choose a server case from here: http://www.rackmountmaster.com/
[18:27:32] Ryushin: AndyCap: Okay, you're right. It was version 1.1.74.
[18:28:17] AndyCap: :)
[18:28:22] Ryushin: Back in december of '94. Though it was January '95 when I started playing with Linux.
[18:28:56] dustybin: now this is what i call a mythtv HD backend case
[18:28:58] dustybin: http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/yhst . . . _1975_325843
[18:29:24] wagnerrp: i often wonder if im a newbie, or old man, starting around 2.2
[18:29:33] wagnerrp: i suppose it depends on the room and time of day
[18:29:48] dustybin: i was in linus's bedroom whilst he was coding the kernel
[18:30:01] AndyCap: dustybin: how did he get anything done then?
[18:30:30] dustybin: hehe im not sure
[18:30:33] iamlindoro_: dustybin was his fluffer
[18:31:16] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: you're saying that Linus is as l33t as Stanley Jobson?
[18:31:36] iamlindoro_: exACTly
[18:32:11] dustybin: ive got a thing for hot-swap drive bays
[18:32:21] wagnerrp: he must be kept stimulated to perform... coding
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[18:33:27] dustybin: if one day i have 6x 1TB hard drives for HD recordings, is it possible to configure all of those 6 drives into a RAID configuration?
[18:33:55] dustybin: or is RAID only done in 3's ?
[18:33:59] AndyCap: dustybin: well, you need a GPT and 64 bit LBA but sure.
[18:34:11] wagnerrp: yes,no
[18:34:16] sid3windr: :)
[18:34:30] AndyCap: dustybin: and you probably need to read up on RAID.
[18:34:30] sid3windr: you don't strictly need gpt ;)
[18:34:37] wagnerrp: raid5 is done in a minimal of 3
[18:34:39] dustybin: ok
[18:34:41] AndyCap: since only pervs make raids of 3 disks
[18:34:47] wagnerrp: raid6 is done in a minimal of 4
[18:34:55] wagnerrp: raid1 done in pairs
[18:35:02] AndyCap: wagnerrp: you could make a raid 6 of 3 disks.
[18:35:03] wagnerrp: raid0 is done in whatever the hell you want
[18:35:13] sid3windr: sounds pretty useless though AndyCap ;)
[18:35:18] wagnerrp: andycap: only if it is degraded
[18:35:25] AndyCap: wagnerrp: um, no. :)
[18:35:33] Dagmar: It would be pointless to do that
[18:35:37] Dagmar: Completely pointless.
[18:35:40] wagnerrp: one data, and two parity?
[18:35:43] AndyCap: Dagmar: that is besides the point.
[18:35:48] wagnerrp: you may as well just do mirroring
[18:36:01] Dagmar: AndyCap: People come up with enough stupid ideas in here on their own.
[18:36:03] dustybin: what RAID could i use for 6x 1TB disks, if one goes down, i could just replace it and it rebuilds ?
[18:36:07] Dagmar: Please don't help them come up with more.
[18:36:17] wagnerrp: actually, one disk would be a mirror, the other disk would be an opposite
[18:36:21] AndyCap: anyhow. raid 5 and 6 should be outlawed.
[18:36:38] wagnerrp: how so
[18:36:45] Dagmar: Said by a man who isn't responsiible for keeping any disk arrays running
[18:37:05] AndyCap: my raid10 arrays are working perfectly fine thank you.
[18:37:18] Dagmar: They're not >50Tb in size, either.
[18:37:19] wagnerrp: 5 and 6 are low cost
[18:37:25] wagnerrp: 10 is overkill for most tasks
[18:37:28] sid3windr: 6 is excellent
[18:37:44] dustybin: i think RAID3 sounds the best for me
[18:37:51] sid3windr: raidWUT?
[18:38:02] wagnerrp: raid3 has throughput issues
[18:38:10] wagnerrp: since you have one disk dedicated to parity
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[18:38:18] dustybin: hm
[18:38:22] sid3windr: you will suffer poor support too
[18:38:28] wagnerrp: plus its bit striping, which is just funky
[18:38:32] sid3windr: I haven't seen a single controller supporting raid 3, neither does the linux kernel for md
[18:38:44] wagnerrp: my areca card supports raid 3
[18:38:48] sid3windr: does it?
[18:39:09] sid3windr: you're right
[18:39:12] dustybin: GreyFoxx uses RAID but i cannot remember what one he uses
[18:39:13] sid3windr: create Parameter: <raid=xx> <capacity=xxx> <level=<0|1|3|5|6>> [ch=<0>]
[18:39:16] sid3windr: heh.
[18:39:19] sid3windr: I guess I never paid attention to it
[18:39:42] sid3windr: anyway, with 6x1TB I'd go for raid 6
[18:39:48] sid3windr: or if your data is less important, raid5
[18:41:07] AndyCap: hmmm, I never read the end of the unraid discussion.
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[18:41:15] wagnerrp: unraid?
[18:41:26] dustybin: sid3windr: ok thanks
[18:42:08] sid3windr: dustybin: this gives you a 4TB netto stoarge, or in case of raid5, a 5TB
[18:42:17] AndyCap: wagnerrp: yes. lime-technology implemented a variant of raid 4 where you have a complete filesystem on each drive + 1 parity drive.
[18:42:19] sid3windr: but in raid6 2 disks can fail without you losing everything
[18:42:28] sid3windr: in raid5 only one
[18:42:37] dustybin: sid3windr: i think RAID5 is enough
[18:42:45] AndyCap: wagnerrp: so you can lose more than 1 disk, and just lose the data on that drive
[18:43:02] dustybin: sid3windr: i very much doubt 2 disks will go down, if that does happen it doesnt matter that much anyway
[18:43:17] AndyCap: dustybin: you know when the 2nd disk dies?
[18:43:27] dustybin: ?
[18:43:27] wagnerrp: so basically raid5 without the volume striping
[18:43:36] AndyCap: dustybin: when you're reading all the data on the array trying to rebuild the 1st dead drive.
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[18:43:50] ** sid3windr had 2 drives die within 10 minutes **
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[18:43:55] sid3windr: I was happy to have raid6
[18:43:56] wagnerrp: AndyCap: pretty much
[18:44:08] sid3windr: and even then the data was not *that* important, it was one of the backup servers :)
[18:44:40] dustybin: RAID 6 + 6x 1TB disks = 4 TB of mythtv HD recordings, not bad
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[18:45:13] AndyCap: dustybin: if you use storage groups, you get 6TB and you lose only the recordings on the dead drive
[18:45:26] wagnerrp: thats what im doing at the moment
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[18:45:33] dustybin: AndyCap: aye interesting
[18:45:37] wagnerrp: my redundant storage is only for transcoded and ripped media
[18:45:56] AndyCap: wagnerrp: hehe, stuff you invested time into.
[18:46:07] wagnerrp: pretty much
[18:46:10] dustybin: AndyCap: i think i would like some kind of backup mechnism
[18:46:21] dustybin: how about 8x 1TB disks and 6TB of storage
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[18:46:51] sid3windr: heheh
[18:46:53] dustybin: in a beast of a case like this: http://www.rackmountmaster.com/rm-3250s-3u-ra . . . er-case.html
[18:47:04] sid3windr: or 15x 1TB disks and 13TB of storage? ;)
[18:47:40] dustybin: one last question, would i need to find a linux compatible RAID controller card?
[18:47:45] sid3windr: yes.
[18:47:46] dustybin: or can it all be done via software?
[18:47:54] sid3windr: software can do it too
[18:47:56] wagnerrp: well shit, why not just get X4800
[18:48:07] wagnerrp: ive not seen software RAID6 before
[18:48:15] iamlindoro_: MDADM will do 6
[18:48:22] sid3windr: yes, md does raid6
[18:48:27] sid3windr: since 2.6.2something
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[18:48:56] dustybin: and i take it there are a few linux drivers in the kernel for RAID controller cards too?
[18:49:14] wagnerrp: thats not the right name... whats the Sun box that has 48 hotswap bays in a 4U case?
[18:49:46] AndyCap: dustybin: are you sure you want to spend that much?
[18:49:48] wagnerrp: X4500
[18:50:16] dustybin: AndyCap: storage is coming down in price
[18:50:23] wagnerrp: if you want a hardware card, check out the promise E8xxx cards
[18:50:25] AndyCap: dustybin: raid controllers are expensive
[18:50:33] dustybin: oh are they?
[18:50:40] wagnerrp: probably the cheapest raid6 card youll get
[18:50:45] Dagmar: They actually are.
[18:50:46] iamlindoro_: dustybin: software raid is MUCH better for almost everyone
[18:50:46] wagnerrp: its only in the $300 range for 8-port
[18:51:00] wagnerrp: my 12-port areca was $620
[18:51:00] AndyCap: wagnerrp: and the linux drivers?
[18:51:12] wagnerrp: i dont know if it has linux drivers
[18:51:16] AndyCap: ...
[18:51:19] wagnerrp: i didnt give it much consideration
[18:51:20] iamlindoro_: if your hardware raid card goes out, you're screwed... if your whole SYSTEM gos out with software raid, you can move the drives into any linux system and have your RAID back up in five minutes
[18:51:36] wagnerrp: iamlindoro_: absolutely wrong
[18:51:36] Dagmar: wagnerrp: Are you sure about the number of drive bays you're talking about?
[18:51:46] iamlindoro_: wagnerrp: ummmmm no. I'm not.
[18:51:52] Dagmar: I don't think you can fit 48 drives in 4U.
[18:51:59] iamlindoro_: Since I've done said recovery myself, multiple times
[18:52:03] wagnerrp: i can swap out my areca card with any other areca card of sufficient size, and it mounts the arrays without issue
[18:52:03] Dagmar: Not even SAS drives are that small
[18:52:04] AndyCap: Dagmar: on the top
[18:52:14] dustybin: iamlindoro_: software raid will have CPU overhead
[18:52:20] wagnerrp: Dagmar: you load them from the top, rather than the front
[18:52:22] AndyCap: Dagmar: i.e. you have to pull out the server to swap disks
[18:52:23] iamlindoro_: wagnerrp: key phrase being "any other areca card"
[18:52:39] iamlindoro_: dustybin: It is not *nearly* as bad as you imagine it to be
[18:52:52] wagnerrp: still, youre not screwed
[18:52:54] sid3windr: areca are some of the best cards for hardware raid
[18:52:57] wagnerrp: you just have to get a replacement card
[18:53:00] sid3windr: but they're expensive for home use
[18:53:07] wagnerrp: just like if you drop a drive, you have to get... a replacement drive
[18:53:18] wagnerrp: it just restricts you somewhat
[18:53:21] sid3windr: but yeah, I have a 16 port in my fileserver and an 8 port in my backend
[18:53:34] Dagmar: wagnerrp: Being someone who works in a datacenter, that sounds like a fundamentally shifty design to me
[18:53:53] AndyCap: http://www.sun.com/servers/x64/x4540/
[18:53:53] iamlindoro_: wagnerrp: You're still married to a particular manufacturer, and your ability to keep replacing that card. What happens when you can't find replacements any more? I can *still* move my software raid anywhere I like, and you are in trouble.
[18:54:03] sid3windr: Dagmar: still that's how sun does it :)
[18:54:10] sid3windr: top loading drives
[18:54:24] sid3windr: don't put it in the top 5U of your rack though
[18:54:28] sid3windr: it'll probably tilt ;)
[18:54:33] AndyCap: sid3windr: it's how one sun model does it.
[18:54:34] wagnerrp: can any hardware raid migrate to a different card manufacturer?
[18:54:40] sid3windr: yes, that's what I mean.
[18:54:43] iamlindoro_: no.
[18:54:54] sid3windr: wagnerrp: no, that's why iamlindoro_ advocates software raid
[18:55:14] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: if you're really hackish you can mount some hardware raids with md.
[18:55:19] ** sid3windr prefers areca because linux and software raid simply doesn't have the same performance + you need a "dumb" many-port card anyway + hotswap is dodgy usually **
[18:55:22] iamlindoro_: In *most* cases. There are, of course, times and places for hardware... but home ain't one of 'e,
[18:55:25] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: but that's more desperation than anything else
[18:55:25] iamlindoro_: er em
[18:55:44] ** sid3windr replaced his lvm'd 3-md raid at home with an areca 2 months ago **
[18:55:50] sid3windr: after very good experience with them at work
[18:55:50] wagnerrp: if i had a dedicated file server, i might consider software raid
[18:56:07] wagnerrp: but since i run other things on the machine with the array, i would rather have hardware
[18:56:11] wagnerrp: and offload the processing
[18:57:29] dustybin: what are adaptec RAID controllers like?
[18:57:37] dustybin: http://www.adaptec.com/en-US/products/controllers/hardware
[18:57:50] iamlindoro_: They're like little green cards that go in your computer
[18:57:57] iamlindoro_: and have wires and shit
[18:58:01] AndyCap: dustybin: remembered fondly from when they were any good.
[18:58:05] iamlindoro_: a lot like that, actually
[18:58:11] Dagmar: hehe
[18:58:58] dustybin: this beast looks ideal
[18:59:00] dustybin: http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9650.asp
[18:59:19] Dagmar: sid3windr: That might bite them in the ass, since heat makes drives die faster and I imagine it's probably "interesting" to keep a layer of drives that thick properly cooled.
[18:59:29] ** iamlindoro_ wonders where dustybin got his inheritance. **
[18:59:57] Dagmar: We've a netapp chassis here that was killing a drive every three weeks for about three months until we figured out it had a failed fan
[19:00:08] dustybin: iamlindoro_: i dont plan to buy everything in one go, ill buy a little at a time
[19:00:18] AndyCap: Dagmar: not to mention there's no access to air from top or bottom
[19:00:19] iamlindoro_: Like... a chip at a time?
[19:00:21] dustybin: its a long way before UK becomes fully HD, but i will start planning now
[19:00:38] Dagmar: AndyCap: Air does not travel vertically in a rack mount chassis.
[19:00:38] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: maybe he can get sata ports on an installment plan
[19:00:44] iamlindoro_: AndyCap: hahaha
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[19:01:01] AndyCap: Dagmar: exactly.
[19:01:04] Dagmar: It goes in the front and out the back, period and always.
[19:01:04] iamlindoro_: layaway USB ports
[19:01:17] wagnerrp: ive got a friend with an older 8-series 3ware
[19:01:18] iamlindoro_: Forever and ever, ameeeeeeen
[19:01:22] wagnerrp: has never given him problems
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[19:01:40] wagnerrp: although do note that is a multilane card
[19:01:48] wagnerrp: you have to get a supporting backplane, or breakout cables
[19:02:28] AndyCap: http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-ii-drive-enclo . . . ltilane.html  :P
[19:03:12] wagnerrp: my case separates every two 5.25" bays with a vent
[19:03:18] iamlindoro_: Heh, that's totally, no joke, the exact plexiglass case I had on a shuttle PC a few years ago
[19:03:20] wagnerrp: so i cant fit any multilane backplanes
[19:04:06] AndyCap: wagnerrp: maybe your case manufacturer has one at four times the price.
[19:04:16] wagnerrp: i was going to say it was reminiscent of the G4 power macs
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[19:04:47] iamlindoro_: Was actually my second or third myth box IIRC
[19:04:50] wagnerrp: AndyCap, multilane connectors are for four drives, at most you can put three in 2 5.25" bays
[19:04:54] wagnerrp: it wouldnt be worth it
[19:05:40] iamlindoro_: Hey, AndyCap, did you even get to the bottom of what case those Fiire machines were using? Sexy, that.
[19:06:01] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: nope, haven't found it
[19:06:09] iamlindoro_: ah, bummer
[19:06:17] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: haven't been looking too hard yet either
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[19:07:00] wagnerrp: what they were using? case wise?
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[19:07:11] iamlindoro_: That was the question
[19:07:15] iamlindoro_: http://www.fiire.com/fiire-invisible.php
[19:07:41] wagnerrp: well their backend looks a lot like a P182
[19:07:49] wagnerrp: but their frontend, no idea
[19:09:18] wagnerrp: i would assume theyre custom built
[19:09:40] iamlindoro_: To date they had always used publicly available cases, but you may be right
[19:09:45] wagnerrp: its just a sheet of stamped, brushed aluminum
[19:10:13] wagnerrp: i mean they didnt even weld on the motherboard spacers, its all screwed together
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[19:10:55] wagnerrp: power supply is probably a picopsu
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[19:11:07] wagnerrp: maybe some injection molded plastic for the back and sides
[19:11:45] wagnerrp: you could probably get the tooling made for a few hundred, and then press them out for ~$10 apice
[19:12:06] iamlindoro_: I think the question was more "Is this case available for anyone" versus "How do I get one made/how was it made"
[19:12:10] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: ahaa. polywell
[19:12:55] iamlindoro_: AndyCap: Which model?
[19:12:58] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: though I'm pretty sure that VIA is the OEM for the vesa mount case that polywell sells
[19:12:58] sid3windr: btw dustybin – avoid 3ware, go for areca
[19:13:01] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: dunno yet.
[19:13:03] sid3windr: 3ware is sucks
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[19:14:46] iamlindoro_: Imma' go gym, let me know if you learn anything about it
[19:15:13] dustybin: aye thanks for info :-)
[19:17:12] rambo3: Batman must be the worst movie ever made
[19:17:40] AndyCap: says rambo3 :>
[19:17:42] rambo3: or worst torrent i ever downloaded
[19:18:29] rambo3: no i didn't see it
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[19:22:43] dustybin: gym? what does that mean?
[19:25:03] Dagmar: That's because it's not Batman
[19:25:06] Dagmar: It's The Dark Knight.
[19:25:11] Dagmar: There's a difference between the two.
[19:25:49] Dagmar: The Dark Knight is not even remotely the same as the Batman from the movie Michael Keaton was in
[19:27:52] Dagmar: Let's just say if they sequel this one, ther'es a damn good chance it'll be rated R
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[19:55:23] iamlindoro_: dustybin: The gym is like one of those places outside your house with girls in it... sometimes scantily clad.
[19:56:17] jduggan: outside?
[19:56:18] jduggan: yuk
[19:57:09] dustybin: eek
[19:57:53] iamlindoro_: Better stay inside, though, if you go outside you might meet a girl and have to spend some of that precious RAID money on her
[19:58:06] dustybin: sod that
[19:58:44] iamlindoro_: You never know, might find one impressed by the size of your array
[19:59:01] dustybin: :-O
[19:59:03] iamlindoro_: but those kinds of girls are like... level 100 night elves on WoW and don't go outside themselves
[19:59:11] iamlindoro_: so yeah, better stay inside
[19:59:23] dustybin: yes
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[19:59:27] dustybin: ..back to this cabinet
[19:59:43] dustybin: am i right in thinking that one would need a rack of fans if its got a door like that
[19:59:46] dustybin: http://www.netshop.co.uk/productcategorydetai . . . goryid=54347
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[20:00:05] dustybin: http://www.netshop.co.uk/productcategorydetai . . . goryid=54353 <-fans like this
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[20:00:41] iamlindoro_: That would be "ok," but you can also get fans mounted front back, which might be a little more conducive to good air flow
[20:01:00] iamlindoro_: and you can mount it on the back rails so that it pulls the hot air out through the grill side
[20:01:05] black_Nightmare_: OT but just wondering...can dvi cards be plugged into hdmi-only lcdtv's? (don't see any other means other than dvi>vga>vgatv-box>svideo which seem too complicated heh)
[20:01:08] dustybin: ok
[20:01:26] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: yes, a DVI to HDMI cable should be fine
[20:01:48] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: so long as the TV doesn't *insist* on HDMI being HDCP, but none of the ones I've seen/tried do
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[20:02:26] dustybin: http://www.netshop.co.uk/CategoryImages%5CELITE606l.jpg <-- it looks like you can put a fan on top and bottom of the unit
[20:02:26] black_Nightmare_: thanks
[20:02:50] black_Nightmare_: was looking at a few lcdtv's this afternoon .. they surprisingly seem to not be much $ (but they do still cost a bit) these days
[20:03:27] black_Nightmare_: but I think I like this one anyhow if you want look iamlindoro :p http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?lg=en&a . . . mp;category=
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[20:03:37] black_Nightmare_: $450cad+tax it is
[20:03:59] iamlindoro_: 19"... for a bedroom?
[20:04:20] dustybin: that will fit under my desk nicely
[20:04:47] dustybin: but when i eventually get my own place ill keep it in a dedicated room
[20:04:53] black_Nightmare_: nah..for the theatre/computer shared table at my place
[20:04:54] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: If all you want is HD resolution, at that size, you could get an LCD monitor for probably much less
[20:04:54] dustybin: ideally a basement
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[20:06:36] Dagmar: Screw that TV.
[20:07:02] Dagmar: You can buy a 32" for far too close to that price
[20:07:31] iamlindoro_: ^^ Agreed
[20:07:31] Dagmar: You could definitely get a monitor for that price with more resolution
[20:07:32] black_Nightmare_: dagmar..did you miss the 'computer' part? heh ^_^
[20:07:46] Dagmar: My 24" only cost $250
[20:08:08] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: What's to miss? You can buy a 32" that would be a fine monitor AND HDTV for that price
[20:08:15] Ryushin: I know there was issues with myth and 2.6.25. Are things fixed in 2.6.26?
[20:08:27] Dagmar: My freakin' 24" *monitor* that does 1680x1050 was only $250.
[20:08:35] iamlindoro_: Ryushin: Which issues? None noted here w/ 2.6.25
[20:08:36] Dagmar: The 32" LCD TV I have was only ~$500
[20:08:51] Dagmar: They're just charging a ludicrous amount for an integrated DVD player
[20:09:07] black_Nightmare_: dagmar well when I looked the tv-only LG 19" was $360 .. thats only $90 difference to add the dvd and pc hookup
[20:09:17] Dagmar: That thing only does 1440x900, and for that price, that resolution is crap.
[20:09:37] Dagmar: black_Nightmare: Dude, where the hell are you buying stuff?
[20:09:49] Ryushin: In the dev mailing list, there were issues with 2.6.25 and some V4L stuff.
[20:09:51] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...well next to the toshiba was a larger sony that was 26" but did like 1333x___-something instead oddly enough
[20:10:02] Dagmar: ...and I have news for you, *most* LCD TVs have either DVI or VGA input on them
[20:10:04] Dagmar: It's not a selling point.
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[20:10:10] Dagmar: It's basically standard equipment.
[20:10:15] black_Nightmare_: well dagmar.. the two LG's didn't even have any
[20:10:22] iamlindoro_: 1366x768... black_Nightmare_, that is the bog-standard LCD resolution for < 40 inches
[20:10:32] Dagmar: black_Nightmare_: Then you're shopping at Circuit City and have lost your mind
[20:10:43] iamlindoro_: Seriously
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[20:10:55] black_Nightmare_: nope..its a local shop that also have highend audio too (but not even my type at all heh)
[20:11:02] Dagmar: We're not just voices in your head, man.
[20:11:08] iamlindoro_: Heck, even Worst Buy has better deals than that, and lots of 32 inchers for the 500 range
[20:11:12] Dagmar: If we tell you you're being screwed, you're being screwed.
[20:11:26] Dagmar: That they sell "high end audio" should be a sign that they're in the business of overcharging the hell out of you
[20:11:47] Dagmar: \iamlindoro: That's where I got my 32" LCD TV actually.
[20:12:06] iamlindoro_: Hey, I won't lie, one of my HDTVs is from there, sometimes the sales are good
[20:12:06] GreyFoxx:
[20:12:06] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...so will someone explain to me why the local shop is barely only making 20 back on the toshiba lcdtv's? (yeah they listed their prices as shipping+profit=total .. bit different from usual shops)
[20:12:36] iamlindoro_: Because they're liars or stupid enough to buy way-too-overpriced stuff themselves
[20:12:46] black_Nightmare_: nope.. the shipping price is as direct from toshiba
[20:12:47] Dagmar: black_Nightmare_: Well let's see... either they're lying bastards (gosh, imagine that) or Toshiba is not giving them any kind of multi-unit reseller price break
[20:13:08] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: You are getting irritating right now
[20:13:09] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...heh they had one demo beside four unopened boxes
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[20:13:26] Dagmar: So, they expect to find at least four idiots and one bargain shopper who is also an idiot.
[20:13:36] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: You can and SHOULD be getting in the low 30-inch range in the $500 area. If you are not, that's not OUR fault and not our fucking job to explain your getting bilked
[20:13:41] Dagmar: "Audiophile" shops are *never* where you buy anything from unless you like to just burn money.
[20:13:51] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...its not an audiophile shop btw
[20:13:57] Dagmar: Suuure it's not
[20:14:02] iamlindoro_: So stop putting the onus on US to explain your inability to find a deal that any fucking HALFWIT should be able to fine
[20:14:08] iamlindoro_: er find
[20:14:14] black_Nightmare_: yeah they don't even have any of these silly monster cables etc (overpriced at other brick stores)
[20:14:40] Dagmar: If they're selling stuff that costs that much more than the common price ranges, then if they DON'T start catering to "audiophiles" with more money than technical knowledge, they're going to go under before the year is out.
[20:14:41] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: It doesn't MATTER
[20:14:43] iamlindoro_: we don't GIVE A SHIT
[20:14:50] iamlindoro_: about your shop
[20:15:26] iamlindoro_: The *first* Google shopping result for "32" LCD" is from Circuit City of all overpriced places, of a Sharp LCD @ $549.
[20:16:08] iamlindoro_: With, whodafuckingthunkit, 2 x HDMI
[20:16:46] iamlindoro_: or
[20:16:47] iamlindoro_: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=32%2 . . . 931770249248
[20:16:55] iamlindoro_: or
[20:16:56] iamlindoro_: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=32%2 . . . 363246893441
[20:17:04] dustybin: wow what a frontend case
[20:17:05] iamlindoro_: or
[20:17:06] dustybin: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CES_2008/L . . . lianli08.jpg
[20:17:06] iamlindoro_: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=32%2 . . . 474121571094
[20:17:12] TelnetManta: Guys, can anyone tell me an easy way to find out where all the space on my drive has gone? Im suddenly down to only 7GB and its not enough to let myth startup.
[20:17:22] TelnetManta: I checked my /var/logs already
[20:17:25] iamlindoro_: So do your research, stop walking into your local pound-you-in-the-ass shop, and GOOGLE
[20:17:25] dustybin: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CES_2008/L . . . lianli09.jpg
[20:17:25] Dagmar: Oh look, an LG 19" for $229 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId . . . 213399955235
[20:17:56] iamlindoro_: TelnetManta: The "du" command is likely to be what you want
[20:18:00] Dagmar: The 24" which does 1900x1200 and can thusly handle 1080 which that overpriced Toshiba can't do is just $479
[20:19:03] ** iamlindoro_ is so done with this conversation **
[20:19:23] black_Nightmare_: that 19" doesn't even show any kind of a/v anywhere?
[20:19:46] iamlindoro_: you are dumb
[20:19:49] dustybin: after a lot of thought i think rackmount will be 1, too expensive, 2. too noisy 3. too big for me
[20:19:51] iamlindoro_: click the "specifications tab"
[20:20:03] Dagmar: That's because you're illiterarte.
[20:20:12] Dagmar: s/illiterarte/illiterate/;
[20:20:16] dustybin: i really do think im going to just go with this case instead for my server backend
[20:20:17] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...then explain to me why the images only show dvi, vga, power
[20:20:19] dustybin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112141
[20:20:33] Dagmar: black_Nightmare_: Like I said, because you're an idiot.
[20:20:45] iamlindoro_: Because we don't rely on pictures to tell us stories
[20:20:46] Dagmar: I'm not going to mince words when the cause is so clear cut.
[20:21:08] Dagmar: Go to http://www.rif.org, maybe ask a grownup to help you.
[20:21:24] Dagmar: "no inputs" pfaugh
[20:22:02] iamlindoro_: Guess someone doesn't think you can input anything with DVI or VGA
[20:22:15] black_Nightmare_: dagmar...did you bother looking at the bestbuy spec? it doesn't state one single a/v anywhere .. only that its just a pc monitor
[20:22:30] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: DVI and VGA are a/v input your fuckwit
[20:22:32] iamlindoro_: er you
[20:22:36] black_Nightmare_: iamlindoro because show me any game console, dvd deck, etc that even have vga on them
[20:23:00] iamlindoro_: black_Nightmare_: PS3, Xbox, and Wii can ALL do VGA or HDMI/DVI out
[20:23:20] iamlindoro_: and if you don't like that, then look at the seventeen MILLION google links I provided you with, those all have what you call "TV"
[20:23:23] iamlindoro_: er A/V
[20:24:49] Dagmar: I'm going to have to go with "no one's this dim" as an explanation and drop him in the ignore list for trolling.
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[20:24:58] iamlindoro_: No shit
[20:25:38] Dagmar: It doesn't even make sense to buy a TV with a DVD player built into it if you have a mythTV box
[20:26:19] black_Nightmare_: dagmar – for a quick short movie watching on your own? (not having to boot up etc)
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[20:28:24] dustybin: thats it, this is final!
[20:28:38] Dagmar: hmm?
[20:28:50] dustybin: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/CES_2008/L . . . lianli09.jpg <-- will buy 2 of these for frontends, 1 for downstairs, 1 for my bedroom
[20:29:07] dustybin: and this box will be my server / backend
[20:29:09] Dagmar: Not bad
[20:29:09] dustybin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx? . . . 70B+Black+Co
[20:29:20] dustybin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112141
[20:29:24] dustybin: nicer link
[20:29:32] xris: wow, that seriously needs tinyurl. or the second link. :)
[20:29:33] black_Nightmare_: thats a nice box – I hope that the blueish colour is just the protection sticker cover is it?
[20:29:47] dustybin: its all black
[20:29:56] dustybin: yep that is protective
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[20:30:25] black_Nightmare_: hm whats the model name on that one if you don't mind?
[20:30:27] dustybin: otherwise i will end up spending a fortune on rackmount
[20:30:43] black_Nightmare_: (the desktop form that is)
[20:31:51] dustybin: black_Nightmare_: http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product0 . . . x=64&g=f
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[20:33:55] black_Nightmare_: nice, how much did that one cost you?
[20:33:56] dustybin: if i buy 2 with the exact same components, maybe i could netboot both using the same image
[20:34:09] dustybin: black_Nightmare_: i havent bought anything yet
[20:34:36] black_Nightmare_: I don't see why you couldn't (although I would think that two different hd capacity might not matter as long as the image matched the smallest one?)
[20:34:39] black_Nightmare_: ahhh ok
[20:34:46] Dagmar: dustybin: Almost certainly
[20:35:29] black_Nightmare_: hmm well thanks dustybin I'll have to keep that bookmarked whenever anyone asks me about more-than-beige desktop cases
[20:35:37] Dagmar: Netbooting them would make a number of things easier, but if you have some old thumbdrives, I'd just have them boot off that and NFS mount /usr because it'll be a little easier to mess with
[20:36:04] Dagmar: I still like my NSK2480 tho
[20:36:06] dustybin: ok
[20:36:43] Dagmar: You have to do a bit of song and dance in the init scripts to do certain things based on the hostname it got from the DHCP server if you outright netboot them
[20:37:14] Dagmar: ...cuz otherwise they might not know they each have different frontend identifiers in the DB if they're booting the entire exact same disk images
[20:37:19] black_Nightmare_: NSK2480? am I wrong or does that sound like antec to me?
[20:37:30] ** black_Nightmare_ can kinda remember almost all antec numberings **
[20:37:43] dustybin: thats something i will need to test out, i like the idea of being less heat in the case, slightly less electric used, and the software consistent on both frontends
[20:38:03] Dagmar: That Lian Li case is literally the second one that doesn't have something on the front that pisses me off
[20:39:22] Dagmar: Big win for "no useless giant volume knob on the front"
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[20:39:56] black_Nightmare_: dustybin yeah I have to agree (thats one reason I often prefer microatx over atx boards .. when they're good enough for you onboard gpus often draw quite less than any current cards)
[20:40:07] black_Nightmare_: heh giant volume knobs – I sure hate these on computer cases
[20:40:58] justinh: I've yet to see a HTPC case I can't find anything wrong with
[20:41:31] Dagmar: justinh: I feel your pain, but I can't see anything immediately wrong with that Lian Li he posted
[20:41:36] Dagmar: ...which just about shocks me
[20:41:58] iamlindoro_: I *do* like that little thing from Fiire as a tiny little frontend, but I won't pay $750 for it
[20:42:19] dustybin: justinh: nothing wrong with LIAN LI PC-C36 or LIAN LI PC-C37 if they are just used for frontends
[20:42:32] justinh: front USB sockets. meh
[20:42:45] justinh: my LC02's are side mounted at least
[20:42:49] Dagmar: Yeah, but front USB sockets are fine
[20:42:51] black_Nightmare_: the only thing I don't like with certain desktop cases (at least none are from antec, some is from aopen tho) are when you can't just use a standard atx psu in them
[20:42:52] justinh: as are the audio ports
[20:43:10] dustybin: now that is a cool position for the PSU
[20:43:12] dustybin: http://images.bit-tech.net/news_images/2008/0 . . . ex/htpc2.jpg
[20:43:14] justinh: but at least they're quite unobrtusive on the lian-li cases
[20:43:30] justinh: could it be that a manufacturer finally has a clue?
[20:43:35] Dagmar: justinh: Could be
[20:44:04] Dagmar: Or maybe someone finally paid attention to the rants that HTPC fiends like us were posting online, railing against the same things over and ovewr
[20:44:17] justinh: heh
[20:45:12] Dagmar: dutybin: Dude, does that case take full ATX?
[20:45:22] justinh: so maybe one day soon there'll be stylish, affordable AND functional cases which aren't the size of top loading VCRs
[20:45:24] Dagmar: It damn well looks like it might judging from that second image
[20:45:47] black_Nightmare_: now if there is one thing I perhaps could like to see tho would be to have one htpc case with a small onboard-usb-plugged (well don't most boards these days have 2–4 of them so stealing one would be nothing?) graphical lcd screen ... I could think of many programmable uses for that ^_^
[20:46:23] black_Nightmare_: there's many sources of usb-plugged screens of various sizes online these days anyway
[20:48:44] Dagmar: justinh: The main problem appears to be the size of the mainboard, but I do definitely agree there's an issue with case makers padding a ludicrous amount of slack space around them
[20:48:56] Dagmar: That in particular was a bullet point in my last rant
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[20:59:23] dustybin: the question is, is there a such thing as a low profile 'SILENT' CPU cooler?
[20:59:37] justinh: a heatpipe?
[20:59:52] dustybin: pound signs ?
[21:00:39] Dagmar: Yeah
[21:00:41] justinh: the thing is, the heat has to go somewhere
[21:00:49] Dagmar: Zalman probably makes it
[21:00:54] iamlindoro_: It goes into my pants
[21:01:03] justinh: badaboom
[21:01:06] Dagmar: It just won't be cheap
[21:01:33] justinh: the reserator cpu block is pretty low profile :P
[21:01:56] dustybin: http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/watercooling/zm-wb5
[21:02:09] justinh: ugh that lian-li also has front panel audio
[21:02:13] justinh: wrong again
[21:02:19] Dagmar: It's two little holes.
[21:02:25] Dagmar: You can cover that with a sticker.
[21:02:35] iamlindoro_: I had Reserators for all the machines in my office... there's something wrong with the water pump, though, it's way underpowered so it likes to crap out... often.
[21:02:50] justinh: how much for a case & then you have to piss about with it hiding holes? just get it right from day one
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[21:03:11] justinh: otherwise the case is fine
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[21:03:49] justinh: yeah I know my yamaha cinema receiver has sockets on the front but they're not shitty looking plastic
[21:03:59] dustybin: justinh: i think its a good idea to have those sockets on the front because they are only for tempory fitting something to it
[21:04:09] dustybin: and sometimes its awkward to get to the side of the case
[21:04:17] black_Nightmare_: dustybin heh I've ordered once from quietpc.ca and I think they're a good company
[21:04:26] justinh: but they permanently scar the front
[21:04:35] justinh: put em behind a flap if they're for temp use
[21:04:37] dustybin: they dont look that bad
[21:04:49] justinh: I draw the line & don't move from it
[21:04:58] dustybin: :P
[21:05:15] justinh: my lc02 case looks fine – it's the internal layout I have issues with
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[21:06:39] beighto: Has anybody had experience with or know if it is possible to run TV over IP straight to a network card on a Mythtv server without a tuner? My provider pushes their TV through a DSL connection.
[21:06:44] justinh: one of my 'other side projects' is designing a nice case
[21:07:08] rambo3: like tv server
[21:07:16] andreax1: justinh: Selfmade?
[21:07:17] justinh: beighto: this question comes up from time to time, and nobody can give you an answer other than "it depends exactly how it's deleivered"
[21:07:38] justinh: myth will work with some IPTV services, that much is known
[21:07:56] justinh: whether or not it'll work with yours... YMMV
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[21:08:34] justinh: andreax1: nope, but the metalwork company the firm I work for deals with are open to custom jobs at discount
[21:08:59] beighto: justinh: any forums you know of offhand that might this?
[21:09:09] justinh: beighto: the mythtv wiki
[21:09:44] beighto: justinh: thanks, i'll check it out... my google search was less than succesful
[21:09:46] andreax1: justinh: I still got a damaged sony videorekorder here (drive is damaged) – it lay here around just for starting my project implementing an atx board in it, even the jogshuttle and the display...
[21:09:53] justinh: beighto: if you can use a PC to look at the streams just by pointing it at a URL, then yes, MAYBE
[21:10:08] justinh: beighto: if it relies on a box the provider gives you, probably NO
[21:11:42] oobe: does anyone know a way to set different commercial flagging rules for one channel and leave the rest at default default all methods works perfect for most channels but not at all for one channel
[21:11:56] justinh: see, IPTV – far from being the great white hope that so many people wish for, actually makes it possible to restrict users more than ever before :)
[21:12:04] andreax1: beighto: Sometimes I convert nasatv to myth understandable streams with vlc and send it to the iptv recorder... works so far...
[21:13:38] beighto: I guess I will have to try and see what happens
[21:13:57] andreax1: justinh: Can I send you 2 19" Racks for drilling some clean holes in both? :)
[21:14:30] andreax1: The iptv recorder is a nice idea imho...
[21:14:34] justinh: heh no
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[21:14:49] justinh: drilling holes is easy though
[21:14:49] andreax1: heh
[21:15:01] andreax1: Some bigger ones for fans...
[21:15:33] justinh: ouch
[21:15:41] ** justinh hands andreax1 a Dremel **
[21:16:18] andreax1: Meeeh... Im sure I wreck the whole case! Its a big hole itself after the mission.
[21:17:08] andreax1: I got a Dremel, but I still need some parts – this was a gift from any bonuspoints card...
[21:17:44] andreax1: But im really afraid damage them...
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[21:25:00] andreax1: So, I hacked libmythtv in a crazy, dirty way to ending the frontend after sleeptimer instead of ending to the menu. As I wake up this morning, backend and frontend was down – as I want to. Isn't this more logical this way?
[21:25:21] iamlindoro_: Uhhhhhhhhh
[21:25:22] iamlindoro_: no
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[21:25:40] andreax1: hm, why not ?
[21:25:43] iamlindoro_: Why in the world would one want the sleep timer to bring the frontend AND backend down?
[21:25:53] andreax1: nana, just the frontend...
[21:26:02] iamlindoro_: "backend and frontend was down"
[21:26:14] andreax1: the backend goes down automatically... but it COULD only if the frontend dies...
[21:27:07] andreax1: If it stay senseless in the menu its keeping the connections open and the backend will never shutdown...
[21:28:26] iamlindoro_: I for one would never want the sleep timer to kill the frontend altogether-- I use my myth system as an appliance. If it's not at a frontend menu, something is wrong. Many others use it in exactly this way.
[21:28:28] andreax1: or am I wrong in anything ?
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[21:28:47] andreax1: Aaah....
[21:28:50] andreax1: understand...
[21:28:59] iamlindoro_: I would not mind it if the sleep timer was configurable to put a frontend-only box into sleep mode, but no more than that.
[21:29:19] andreax1: Sleepmode is also fine imho...
[21:29:56] iamlindoro_: I bet if you patch it such that there is a selection box for the behavior, the patch would be accepted... just so long as there are options.
[21:30:13] iamlindoro_: perhaps three, revert to menu, sleep, shutdown
[21:30:28] iamlindoro_: That way everyone preference could be addressed.
[21:30:35] iamlindoro_: er everyone's
[21:31:00] Dagmar: "send to a batter place" and "replace with the nearest match the pet store has" should also be options
[21:31:24] Dagmar: There might be kids in the house and you can't just tell them you had the frontend put to sleep.
[21:31:31] Dagmar: iamlindoro never thinks of these things.
[21:33:07] iamlindoro_: It seems you're trying to preserve a child's feelings. Would you like me to courtesy flush the toilet?
[21:33:09] andreax1: Yes, sure – I also think that should something like iamlindoro said... the thing the sleeptimer toggle should be configurable...
[21:33:32] andreax1: Its anyway just for the sleeptimer... Any kid using this ?
[21:33:48] iamlindoro_: andreax1: He's making a joke
[21:33:56] Dagmar: lol
[21:33:58] andreax1: I see... :)
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[21:37:20] justinh: maybe if the multi-user stuff ever comes to fruition there could be a viewing hours timer :D
[21:37:32] iamlindoro_: MythParenting
[21:37:38] andreax1: harthar
[21:37:42] justinh: me so solly, you go to bed NOW
[21:38:04] justinh: :-O whaddya mean there's no homebrew browser for the DS yet?!
[21:38:08] iamlindoro_: A tickbox marked "supervise my children for me"
[21:38:27] AndyCap: iamlindoro_: that's the on button on the telly.
[21:38:28] iamlindoro_: Of course, that would rely on a Myth user having successfully sexed a woman.
[21:38:44] justinh: ticket #59878 – mythfrontend showed my kids adult-only tv shows. lawsuit attached
[21:39:25] andreax1: rofl
[21:39:28] AndyCap: teletubbies wardrobe malfunction.
[21:39:46] sid3windr: danger danger
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[21:43:07] Dagmar: lol
[21:43:43] justinh: iamlindoro_: speaking of which...
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[21:47:05] rambo3: It's never too early to learn
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[21:52:56] Ryushin: What do you think of this MB for a frontend? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131324
[21:54:41] iamlindoro_: Interesting... I'd never seen DisplayPort before, let alone one on a MoBo
[21:55:32] iamlindoro_: Nice Price, probably a nice little board
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[21:56:18] Ryushin: Yea. I thought that was interesting. I don't know if TV's are going to come with it. But if it's there, that gives me a little future proof. I think I'm going to put in a 2.9ghz dual-core 65 watt chip, and let 'er rip.
[21:56:57] Ryushin: Now I get to look at the latest HTPC cases.
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[21:58:29] Dagmar: Ryushin: Antec NSK2480 makes a good start
[21:58:41] Dagmar: Just watch and see if you don't keep coming back to that model for one reason or another
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[22:00:17] Dagmar: Ah... NOW I see what DisplayPort is
[22:01:07] Dagmar: It's a mechanism that does the same thing as HDMI, but with open, documented, and properly standardized copy-protection support
[22:01:24] Dagmar: ...which is a sure recipe for failure, but it's worth hoping for.
[22:02:16] Ryushin: I'll take a look at that.
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[22:02:58] black_Nightmare_: hmm I had wondered what gpureview kept meaning about cards coming with displayport .. never knew it was an actual name ^-^
[22:03:06] ** black_Nightmare_ goes look again **
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[22:06:19] black_Nightmare_: hm yeah could be interesting if more cards would come with displayport included
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[22:15:24] hadees: has anyone tried out MyMote?
[22:16:14] wagnerrp: ive seen monitors with a displayport port
[22:16:22] wagnerrp: but ive not yet seen a video card with one
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[22:17:37] sid3windr: some dell laptops have one
[22:17:49] sid3windr: with adapter cables to convert to vga/dvi/hdmi
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[22:18:15] wagnerrp: yeah, the monitor i saw was a dell ultrasharp
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[22:25:33] clever: i got mythtv in the van!
[22:25:49] wagnerrp: is the van down by the river?
[22:25:57] clever: no its in the driveway:P
[22:26:05] clever: just going to the master backend thru wifi
[22:26:13] wagnerrp: well then i have no idea
[22:26:32] clever: i just put the laptop frontend in with an inverter
[22:26:57] wagnerrp: not even running native DC... tsk tsk
[22:27:08] clever: the dc->dc suply is broken
[22:27:29] clever: but im not using an fm transmiter
[22:27:39] clever: this new sterio has a audio input jack
[22:28:59] wagnerrp: i was considering putting a computer in my car
[22:29:07] clever: same
[22:29:27] wagnerrp: however the cell phone input i was going to use only outputs to the front two speakers
[22:29:45] clever: this stereo can run 2 inputs at once
[22:29:50] clever: so i can hear the aux in the rear
[22:29:56] clever: while the front play something else
[22:30:02] wagnerrp: beyond the fact that i was going to have to reverse engineer a data bus to figure out how to enable the aux inputs
[22:30:22] clever: kenwood kdc-mp438u
[22:30:33] wagnerrp: id rather keep everything stock
[22:30:48] wagnerrp: i was going to stick it in the trunk, in place of the onstar unit
[22:30:53] clever: this one fits into the stock dash with an adapter and was dead simple to wire in
[22:30:58] wagnerrp: and control it over bluetooth with a nokia tablet
[22:31:26] clever: www.mp3car.com has a ton of usefull stuff for carpc's
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[22:32:41] clever: ugh
[22:32:44] clever: wifi is strugling
[22:32:49] clever: causing playback to stutter
[22:35:09] wagnerrp: i suppose i could buy my hayes manual
[22:35:24] wagnerrp: see if i can tap into and rewire the stock onstar wiring harness
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[22:36:09] wagnerrp: but like i said, if i do anything, i want to keep my stock radio frontend
[22:37:06] clever: ive seen people replace the whole radio with a lcd touch panel
[22:37:11] clever: and stuff the radio into the glove box
[22:39:13] wagnerrp: well i want to keep this looking completely stock
[22:39:24] wagnerrp: save a removable screen on my dash
[22:39:26] clever: ive seen lcd panels thrown into the dash and looking stock
[22:39:52] clever: they got a replacement dash panel
[22:39:54] wagnerrp: but that would require considerable skill
[22:40:08] clever: then cut it up and shaped it with body filler to fit the lcd panel perfectly
[22:40:18] clever: yeah the guy who did it wasnt even near the car
[22:40:24] clever: he was doing it for some1 else
[22:40:35] clever: just ordered a replacement dash panel localy, did it up, shiped it out
[22:40:47] clever: then you just rip it out and shove in the new ready made panel
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[22:49:48] clever: wagnerrp: something id realy need for a frotnend in a car/van
[22:49:51] clever: bigger harddrive
[22:50:01] clever: and some automated way to sync new recordings into the car when in range
[22:50:38] clever: but it would also need its own master backend and mysql to run by itself
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[22:52:17] clever: might also be fun to have an OTA capture device:P
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[22:53:56] SHADOW__X: ota could possible get sticky
[22:54:01] SHADOW__X: with moving around
[22:54:04] SHADOW__X: and diff areas
[22:55:43] clever: yeah
[22:55:56] clever: but once you park you can just rescan and eit or something
[22:56:24] clever: sat would be more work to keep aimed while moving but less changes once you park
[22:56:29] clever: just aim back at the same sat as before
[22:58:37] SHADOW__X: yup
[22:58:40] SHADOW__X: that would be interesting
[22:58:56] SHADOW__X: and if you could get to it "auto" align that would be nuts
[22:59:02] clever: yeah
[22:59:12] clever: gps and compass would help
[22:59:21] SHADOW__X: mhm
[22:59:28] AndyCap: you can get autoalign if you spend enough.
[22:59:29] clever: along with a signal meter so it can sweep the area and find the best direction
[22:59:32] SHADOW__X: man that could be mythtv's flag ship
[22:59:44] clever: AndyCap: or make it from scratch:P
[22:59:56] clever: brb
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[23:04:26] SHADOW__X: how hard is doing a myth db dump and setting that up on another machine carrying recordings over
[23:05:59] clever: SHADOW__X: doing it is easy
[23:06:13] clever: but doing it between 2 systems which are both being used&changed gets complex
[23:07:11] SHADOW__X: ah alright well clever what i want to do is save my db recordings so i can preserve the backend
[23:07:25] SHADOW__X: save that while i reformat the system and start from a fresh install
[23:10:48] clever: you can just backup the entire mysql db using mysqldump
[23:10:54] clever: and the recording directorys
[23:11:49] SHADOW__X: ah really and that would be perfect ? so then i just import the db on the new install and put the recordings there
[23:11:51] SHADOW__X: and be done
[23:11:51] SHADOW__X: ?
[23:11:59] clever: and redo the mysql perms
[23:12:06] clever: and mysql.txt
[23:12:39] SHADOW__X: hmm so not bad at all
[23:13:15] AndyCap: SHADOW__X: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-23.html#ss23.7
[23:13:29] AndyCap: SHADOW__X: if you just want the recordings.
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[23:14:20] SHADOW__X: anything else i can setup thais would be great
[23:14:21] SHADOW__X: thanks man
[23:14:24] SHADOW__X: bookmark here i come
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[23:20:11] wagnerrp: SHADOW__X: motorhomes have autotracking satellite dishes
[23:20:23] SHADOW__X: ah nice i didnt know that
[23:20:41] wagnerrp: ours is not rated for tracking while in motion, but you can get those that are
[23:20:45] SHADOW__X: do they just use gps and comfigure it to the geostationary satellites?>
[23:20:59] wagnerrp: no, they just use three receivers
[23:21:01] AndyCap: SHADOW__X: http://www.allroadcommunications.com/mobilepr . . . kmarine.aspx 20k. :P
[23:21:08] wagnerrp: and rotate in the direction that has the best signal
[23:21:43] SHADOW__X: aww i like my way better that would use brains
[23:22:03] wagnerrp: ours just has a single receiver, so it has to sweep the sky to find the best signal
[23:22:13] SHADOW__X: hmm nice site AndyCap interesting stuff
[23:22:18] SHADOW__X: ah ok
[23:22:26] SHADOW__X: pretty straight forward it seems
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[23:47:07] Dagmar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsp8oHKZzfo
[23:47:12] Dagmar: More disk space animations
[23:47:15] Dagmar: Go figure.
[23:47:49] Dagmar: I have *no clue* what deranged algorithm they're using to determine what videos were related to that.
[23:47:53] Dagmar: None whatsoever
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