Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Tuesday, June 17th, 2008, 00:06 UTC

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wasabi:

Maybe one of you in here might know. As a temporary measure until I get a new TV, I need a way to get my video card to the TV. Video card has VGA and DVI-D out. I can use S-Video or composite in my receiver.

[00:32:29]

wasabi:

I'm suspecting I'm out of luck without an expensive box to do anything with the DVI signal.

[00:32:42]

wasabi:

Was hoping there was something simplier perhaps for VGA to composite.

[00:33:07]

Kelerion:

yup

[00:33:20]

Kelerion:

I have a cable here laying around somewhere that is exactly that

[00:34:04]

wasabi:

I found a few cables that appear to do it on the surface but after closer examination they only work for projectors which run composite through some of hte pins on the VGA side

[00:35:49]

wasabi:

Ahh. Found a box for 30$

[00:35:51]

wasabi:

40$.

[00:35:56]

wasabi:

Which is like, probably as low as I'll get

[00:36:07]

wasabi:

Guess I should just go find a better TV and receiver.

[00:36:36]

clever:

wasabi: i have a cord here with vga->composte,svideo

[00:36:56]

Kelerion:

yup

[00:36:58]

Kelerion:

me too

[00:37:17]

wasabi:

Oh yeah? Hmm.

[00:37:25]

wasabi:

I cannot find any such cord online.

[00:37:54]

wasabi:

http://www.amazon.com/EFORCITY-VGA-S-Video-RC . . . p/B000P3UB24 <----

[00:37:56]

wasabi:

notice:

[00:38:00]

wasabi:

#

[00:38:01]

wasabi:

# NOTE: Your VGA card must support TV out directly through VGA port function. Please consult with your VGA card's user manual for more information.

[00:38:23]

Kelerion:

http://www.optimization-world.com/details/prodid/170.html

[00:38:25]

clever:

i fed my damn old laptop thru the cord and got a semi usable signal on my bttv card

[00:38:31]

Kelerion:

first link i looked at in google

[00:38:34]

clever:

i dont think i ever actualy used it on my tv

[00:38:37]

wasabi:

Kelerion:

[00:38:37]

wasabi:

CAUTION: Only works with VGA cards that have TV-Out functionality through the VGA connector. Check your Video Card manual to make sure that your VGA card has TV-Out capability.

[00:39:57]

wasabi:

actually maybe mine does have that heh

[00:43:15]

Kelerion:

ok... just checked... i must be thinking of something else...

[00:43:56]

wasabi:

Yeah. I think mine may actually support that. Not much more than a passing ambigous mention in the tech docs though

[00:44:53]

Dagmar:

Wow. I knew they were making HTPC case smsll, but not *this* small http://ahanix.com/products/mce/mce_301.php

[00:45:10]

Dagmar:

Oh wait, nevermind that's the PSU size. Heh

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conathan:

Hello, I was having problems compiling mythtv on this current system build (The only change since then, was moving all libraries from /usr/lib to /usr/lib64

[00:49:39]

conathan:

It is asking me for a threaded QT install

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Dagmar:

conathan: So give it a threaded Qt

[01:02:11]

Dagmar:

It ain't hard.

[01:03:02]

conathan:

Dagmar: I fixed it

[01:03:16]

** sphery thinks conathan is forgetting to pass --libdir-name=lib64 **

[01:03:19]

conathan:

Dagmar: the mythtv installation script was not looking at the standard gcc library paths

[01:03:32]

Dagmar:

Suuuure it wasn't

[01:03:38]

conathan:

Dagmar: threw a /usr/lib64 into ld.so.conf, and vola

[01:03:42]

** sphery thinks conathan hacked it rather than fixed it **

[01:03:45]

Dagmar:

Dude, gcc _always_ looking in the standard library paths.

[01:03:51]

Dagmar:

That's hard-wired into it at compile time.

[01:03:52]

conathan:

not gcc,

[01:03:57]

conathan:

the mythtv config script.

[01:04:08]

sphery:

conathan: --libdir-name=lib64

[01:04:17]

Dagmar:

Are you trying to build a machine *up* to 64-bit from 32-bit base?

[01:04:21]

sphery:

that's the fix

[01:04:28]

conathan:

sphery: alright, I'll try that too

[01:04:50]

iamlindoro:

sphery: configure options are for cowards!

[01:04:50]

conathan:

Dagmar: I already had, 1 build ago, this is a 2nd build with libraries in /usr/lib64 instead of /usr/lib

[01:04:59]

Dagmar:

Damnit. The motherboard I was looking at has no serial ports.

[01:05:09]

conathan:

Dagmar: first build's mythtv worked, but I wanted to add 32bit compatilibility to this buid

[01:05:13]

conathan:

buikld

[01:05:14]

Dagmar:

conathan: why are you bothering to stick them into /usr/lib64 then?

[01:05:17]

iamlindoro:

sphery: if a configure script can't read my mind then that software is BETA

[01:05:22]

Dagmar:

Ah

[01:05:32]

Dagmar:

I don't see any point in that.

[01:05:45]

Dagmar:

It's not like you're going to be heavily dependent on flashplayer.

[01:05:53]

conathan:

actually, I wanted wine.

[01:06:01]

conathan:

eventually

[01:06:05]

Dagmar:

Ugh. Screw that

[01:06:14]

sphery:

iamlindoro: yeah, what's with Myth's requiring people to learn how the project works before compiling and building it on their own? Why not be like all the other projects that allow brain-dead users to just say, "./configure && make && make install"

[01:06:36]

conathan:

sphery: it's not autoconf based, probably

[01:06:44]

sphery:

not at all

[01:06:48]

sphery:

and by choice

[01:07:03]

conathan:

never said it was a bad thing, just as an explination

[01:07:18]

** iamlindoro helpfully notes that sphery needs little education about how the project his code is a part of works :) **

[01:07:51]

sphery:

though sphery could probably be a bit less sarcastic, now...

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conathan:

ok, so it adds libdir_name to LIBPATHS, yeah that's the fix alright

[01:08:22]

iamlindoro:

sphery: well THAT would hardly be the #mythtv-users way

[01:08:32]

sphery:

lol, how true

[01:08:35]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Take that polite and straightforward stuff to #ubuntu-mythtv

[01:08:54]

Dagmar:

Hmm.. NewEgg's info is just inaccurate. The motherboard has a serial port header on the board, and sure as shootin' there's a rear bay serial port thingie

[01:08:59]

Dagmar:

*whew*

[01:09:25]

sphery:

those technical terms from newegg?

[01:09:28]

** conathan wonders if he's left a bad impression with Dagmar over his stupid questions over the last 2 visit's **

[01:10:05]

sphery:

conathan: on the bright side, many of us in #mythtv-users can't remember all the people we plan to hold grudges against

[01:10:14]

sphery:

(and typing in an ignore is just too much work :)

[01:10:19]

Dagmar:

conathan: You have clever to thank for having the bar set EXTREMELY low for that

[01:10:20]

Dagmar:

No worries

[01:10:31]

gizmobay:

Anyone running 0.22?

[01:10:35]

conathan:

next thing to fix, is my tuners,

[01:10:48]

sphery:

conathan: are you just starting with mythtv for the first time?

[01:10:53]

conathan:

sphery: had it for years

[01:11:01]

conathan:

sphery: although been 32bit for years

[01:11:02]

sphery:

oh, new setup then. cool

[01:11:02]

Dagmar:

sphery: Well, NewEgg just didn't *say* anything about the serial port being there. You can see it in the picture, and the ASRock website shows it and mentions the COM header explicitly

[01:11:04]

conathan:

sphery: source based lfs distro

[01:11:09]

conathan:

sphery: set it up about 10 times now

[01:11:14]

conathan:

sphery: (mythtv that is)

[01:11:24]

Dagmar:

...and for the record, http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=A . . . ullHD%20R3.0 is looking pretty good right now

[01:11:24]

sphery:

cool

[01:11:25]

conathan:

sphery: just not in a multilib 32/64bit environment

[01:11:31]

iamlindoro:

I remember. I remember gooooooood

[01:11:46]

iamlindoro:

I keep a list in my wallet at all times

[01:11:47]

Dagmar:

The only further "tweak" I can think of for that front is going to simply be "Can I customize the damn BIOS splash screen or not."

[01:12:09]

conathan:

sphery: hit 2 snags, this one, and only one tuner works (but I am blaming my kernel, until proven otherwise)

[01:12:24]

sphery:

conathan: I feel that LFS-like distros are the worst possible distro to use for MythTV. (And, I happen to run a distro of my own creation that was LFS in 1999 but has diverged significantly.)

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conathan:

hmm, LFS's been straight forward, even before the configure script

[01:13:11]

conathan:

CLFS I imagine will have users in a fit, if they ran into what I ran into

[01:13:25]

sphery:

conathan: correction, there may be one distro that's worse, but I won't name it.

[01:13:37]

conathan:

but they support multiple arch's, with option of 32, 64, or multilib

[01:13:58]

conathan:

sphery: MacOSX?

[01:14:07]

conathan:

sphery: Now getting mythtv on there was a pain (:

[01:14:22]

conathan:

gave up on the source, and found some unnoficial prebiult one

[01:14:43]

sphery:

conathan: I know exactly what LFS is. I used it for a time around 1999, and I still do things in a very similar way (though I use my own variant)

[01:14:43]

conathan:

(but that's probably my fault, as I am not as used to using gpl libs on MacOSX)

[01:14:51]

iamlindoro:

Mac OS X is probably the *easiest* to build myth for

[01:15:00]

iamlindoro:

./some_buildy_thing

[01:15:02]

iamlindoro:

the end!

[01:15:18]

conathan:

as I said, probably my fault. I think at the time though, it was barely supported

[01:15:31]

sphery:

conathan: Not Mac OS X. An actual distro. Don't want to start a distro war, so I won't name it. And, it's not so much the distro's fault that it's a bad choice.

[01:15:58]

conathan:

got me curious now, but the safe choice to take

[01:16:05]

iamlindoro:

Yeah, they'd probably Suse...er. Sue you

[01:16:29]

conathan:

even the windows environment's not too bad, but I saw how the applications have walked all over the organization

[01:17:05]

sphery:

iamlindoro: I can't say no to all the guesses or I might as well just name the distro.

[01:17:23]

iamlindoro:

sphery: Haha, no, it's ok, I have my own opinions

[01:17:24]

iamlindoro:

:)

[01:17:49]

sphery:

I will admit that I haven't seen nearly as many problems from this distro in the last couple of years as we used to have, so it may be time to re-evaluate.

[01:19:22]

sphery:

conathan: I do have to say that one thing I like about LFS is that generally, when things don't work, the LFS user blames himself/herself (figuring that there's something missing/done improperly/...).

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[01:20:00]

Dagmar:

They're generally right.

[01:20:00]

sphery:

Though I think that LFS is a waste of time. (And I freely admit that I waste thousands of hours of my time taking a similar approach.)

[01:20:08]

sphery:

Dagmar: yep

[01:20:18]

Dagmar:

Probably 90% of the problems on that distro are people who EPIC FAIL at following directions.

[01:20:23]

conathan:

sphery: hate to say it, but usually it is the user's fault.

[01:20:31]

Dagmar:

I won't say it's a _waste_ of time.

[01:20:33]

conathan:

sphery: I scripted my build

[01:20:49]

conathan:

sphery: so it's usually just of case of starting the scripted bash script, and vola

[01:20:57]

sphery:

Dagmar: Yeah, I should say it's a waste of time to use that for anything but "academic" purposes.

[01:21:00]

Dagmar:

It tends to be a waste of *other people's* time, which is *worse* because then the poor SOB has a godawful time getting help from anyone else who knows what they've been up to when they DO have a legit problem tho

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Dagmar:

The folks who manage to survive LFS tho tend to be pretty solid troubleshooters, provided they don't turn out to be "gimme teh helps" junkies

[01:21:52]

sphery:

true

[01:22:02]

sphery:

so, good for academic purposes

[01:22:20]

Dagmar:

They've managed to survive a relatively large number of fubar scenarios in a relatively short period of time, and are more likely to correctly identify "reasonable" approaches to addressing problems later.

[01:22:27]

conathan:

Dagmar: I did use vi on configure, searched for the word multithread, when I came here (:

[01:22:28]

Dagmar:

...which is about as far from clever as it can possibly be.

[01:22:50]

Dagmar:

conathan: Basically you just pass a special argument to configure and you get an mt build.

[01:22:57]

conathan:

Dagmar: it's mt.

[01:23:08]

conathan:

Dagmar: trust me, it's mt

[01:23:23]

Dagmar:

It astounds me just how quickly clever can come up with a completely overcomplex "solution" to moderately complex problems

[01:23:24]

conathan:

Dagmar: and I've got it compiling happly

[01:23:33]

conathan:

oh wait,

[01:23:34]

conathan:

failed

[01:23:52]

Dagmar:

Aside from that the kid's okay tho

[01:23:52]

** conathan restarts build with some tweaks **

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[01:25:18]

sphery:

Dagmar: Yeah, I've wondered about his insistence on using 1970's hardware for current MythTV. I've got to think that a new semi-modern computer has to be cheaper than all the time he spends trying to overcome problems with the underpowered hardware.

[01:25:30]

conathan:

which kid is that?

[01:25:40]

** conathan hopes 1970 is an exageration **

[01:26:00]

sphery:

yeah, an exaggeration, but I think he is using a 400MHz system for his MySQL server.

[01:26:10]

conathan:

hmm, I did that (:

[01:26:29]

conathan:

P3 333, had a hardware encoder card in there though

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[01:27:19]

conathan:

worked farely well, was 2 years ago when I replaced it

[01:28:08]

Dagmar:

sphery: Well, I was thinking what's a better example is him attacking the binary with strace and it's raging torrent of visual noise instead of just looking at the damn frontend and backend logs first

[01:28:17]

sphery:

I believe resources should go where they're needed. In the MythTV world, that means a 1.5GHz CPU with 512MB RAM or better on a backend or MySQL server and/or SDTV frontend and a good Athlon X2 or Core 2 Duo or better on an HDTV frontend.

[01:28:39]

Dagmar:

Strace is only a first choice troubleshooting tool if you're a masochist, IMHO

[01:29:01]

sphery:

Dagmar: but why would you think that a dev may have chosen to actually tell you what you need to know? :)

[01:29:13]

Dagmar:

sphery: 15 years of experience

[01:29:23]

sphery:

guess I can't dispute that

[01:29:45]

sphery:

Well, I've got to get back to the Pegasus galaxy. I think they need my help fighting the Wraith.

[01:29:46]

conathan:

mythtv isn't 15 years old

[01:29:47]

conathan:

afaik

[01:29:58]

conathan:

sphery: what about the kilwrathi?

[01:30:00]

Dagmar:

Only greenhorn coders don't check for possible error conditions and bizarre states and then log *something* about it when they occurr

[01:30:12]

sphery:

back then it wasn't a myth, it was PolytheismTV

[01:30:16]

jamesd__:

sphery, why do you need that much power.. you can probably do better with a p3 or something old like that... its not very cpu intensive

[01:30:31]

sphery:

which it?

[01:30:52]

Dagmar:

jamesd: Myth actually *is* a CPU-hungry app once you figure in commflagging and transcoding.

[01:30:57]

jamesd__:

the front end needs all the cpu and graphics you can give it, the back end doesn't need it

[01:31:16]

Dagmar:

For this reason, it's more efficient to use a newer CPU with a MUCH HIGHER clock-cycle-per-watt ratio than it is to pull some POS out of the closet

[01:31:22]

jamesd__:

dagar, but those don't need to happen real time.

[01:31:39]

sphery:

A backend with a P3 would probably be fine assuming it has sufficient RAM and hardware encoders/digital capture cards. Might work for a dedicated MySQL server, but I don't think it's worth my time to find out.

[01:31:41]

Dagmar:

jamesd: Umm... No one's even trying to transcode in realtime.

[01:31:58]

Dagmar:

Just getting something transcoding well at half realtime speed is a goddamn achievement.

[01:32:10]

sphery:

jamesd__: that why I said the powerful processor for the HDTV frontend

[01:32:12]

Dagmar:

Doing it on a P3 means if you record 4 hours of stuff a day, your box may actually never STOP transcoding

[01:32:17]

conathan:

sphery: yeah, my backend had hardware encoder, and probably at least 512MB or 1G [I dont remember]. no transcoding

[01:32:32]

conathan:

sphery: from what I read, it just dumps it to the harddrive

[01:33:50]

sphery:

Yeah, and the new AMD/Intel CPU's and associated chipsets and mobo's have some serious power-saving features that probably make them lower-power in the long run than even a "low-powered" CPU.

[01:34:16]

Dagmar:

sphery: Some of the newer chips definitely use less power than the ones I was using back around 2000

[01:34:43]

conathan:

sphery: that's why I went from my P3 333 (undeclocked P3 500) to a Core2

[01:35:14]

sphery:

Yeah. I've considered replacing some of my overpowered (and overly-power-hungry) Athlon XP systems with newer, more powerful systems just for the power savings.

[01:35:15]

Dagmar:

I've gotten three sub-350W quotes from various PSU calcs online now for the new frontend I'm building, and basically, that's less PSU than any desktop I've assembled in the past 7 years

[01:35:28]

conathan:

sphery: but before that, maybe the athlon's may have been good, but Cpu power was unreasonable

[01:35:44]

sphery:

Maybe then the CPU could keep up with that idle process that's always sucking up CPU time...

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[01:38:17]

jamesd__:

true story network operations at a large fortune 500 company actually paged a unix engineer at 2am on a saturday night because it got an alert that said "idle thread uisng 100% of cpu for the last 15 minutes"

[01:38:47]

sphery:

lol

[01:39:54]

Dagmar:

There might have been a good reason for that

[01:40:06]

Dagmar:

If that was one of their Oracle servers, that *would* be cause for alarm.

[01:40:45]

jamesd__:

you mean they were boneheads and in cable of reading the message and thinking that its okay for the system to be idle at 2am on a saturday night.

[01:40:56]

Sedorox:

my work just got a new blade server in.. dual quad core... installed server 08... the one server admin hasn't been able to tax any of the CPU's yet.. I toldhim to let me use it as either my normal workstation.. or one of my servers.. and I'd have all of them taxed :p

[01:40:57]

jamesd__:

er s/in cable/capable/

[01:41:19]

Dagmar:

I know on a firewall I put together once (the first one I did with SELinux) I actually put the rc5 client on there and if the thing ever stopped doing X number of keys every minute, it was considered a warning condition because something else was sucking up CPU

[01:41:55]

jamesd__:

Sedorox, just start wrapping all your favorite commands in for i in * ; do command $i & done ... its easy.

[01:41:58]

conathan:

wait a min... -march=k8?

[01:42:07]

Dagmar:

jamesd: If you're working in network ops, you don't get to pick and choose what you call people on.

[01:42:23]

Dagmar:

You get to mock them for setting up useless alert criteria when you call them at 2am.

[01:42:26]

Dagmar:

That more than makes up for it.

[01:43:19]

jamesd__:

dagar, considering i was on the team of people that were getting pages and we told them to think before paging and were later asked to help them learn some debugging skills just so that this didn't happen.. i would say they had lead way in this matter.

[01:43:38]

Dagmar:

Nothing makes engineers work harder at solving problems than hearing someone in the NOC say "Damnit I'm going to be calling him every half hour tonight if he doesn't get that @#$@ mail/web/auth/db server stabilized or they change the monitoring criteria.

[01:43:43]

Sedorox:

jamesd__: yea.. it'll be our imaging server for Symantec Ghost... we're still waiting for the HDDs to put in the SAN and give us 8TB

[01:44:11]

Dagmar:

jamesd: I'd say the person running your NOC didn't have any testicles.

[01:44:27]

Dagmar:

You set up a condition where they have to know *all your jobs* better than you do.

[01:44:35]

Dagmar:

...and you pay them less for it.

[01:45:14]

jamesd__:

they read documents and guides we wrote so they can handle situations without paging engineers at 2am

[01:45:14]

Dagmar:

NOC people get paid less than admins and engineers on the basis of they aren't required to know as much (because in some places it's damn impossible to be that familiar with all the equipment)

[01:45:49]

conathan:

ok mythtv, tell me why you think k8 is the best optimization for a Intel Core2 processor running on a x86_64 environment

[01:45:53]

** conathan opens configure **

[01:45:58]

Vaelys:

and NOC people aren't really people at all.

[01:46:38]

Dagmar:

Look man, it's real simple. In a properly-run NOC, if someone's being called at 2am about idle accounting for 100% of the CPU, it's because some jackass laid down the criteria that *anything* consuming 100% of the CPU was an alarm condition.

[01:47:09]

Dagmar:

If the NOC people are the ones allowed to setup all the criteria upon which they call someone, this just makes them scapegoats.

[01:47:35]

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[01:47:38]

Dagmar:

Eventually something's going to happen that will look okay to them, because monitoring tools only get you so far, and in the morning some admin will be screaming blue murder because say, the paycheck printer has been printing solid black all night.

[01:48:29]

Dagmar:

Anything that doesn't leave NOC people (by definition) in the lurch, is likely going to be allowing them admin access or at least elevated privs *on everything* which is a disaster waiting to happen.

[01:49:00]

Dagmar:

So, the NOC people monitor based on the criteria the admins and engineers have laid down. Otherwise you run into security issues.

[01:50:57]

conathan:

-march=k8, so that's why mythtv kept segfaulting on my EeePC (Celeron M Processor)

[01:51:03]

Dagmar:

It's an annoying situation, but a realistic one

[01:51:20]

Dagmar:

conathan: You know, this is why I have this great big heaping pile of bash scripts to build things *for me*

[01:51:29]

Dagmar:

...so I can't eff up like that

[01:51:46]

conathan:

Dagmar: I got a billion bash build scripts, and that's the one I used to build it for my EeePC.

[01:52:09]

conathan:

Dagmar: although I built my system on a more powerful machine (:

[01:52:18]

Dagmar:

conathan: So now the question is a) why did you hard-code K8 arch into it as well as possibly b) what effed up so hard it decided k8 was the correct arch

[01:52:22]

conathan:

Dagmar: so it probably confused the cpu autodetection

[01:52:54]

conathan:

Dagmar: actually, I didn't hardcode K8. It looks like it's chosen for some intel's according to configure though

[01:53:02]

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[01:53:15]

Dagmar:

You can pretty much drop in a case statement that regexp checks for "Intel" or "AMD" and then maybe "VIA" from /proc/cpuinfo and get that mostly right

[01:53:54]

conathan:

I could have, but I decided optimization wasn't worth it. Left it to choose it's own default.

[01:54:24]

Dagmar:

egrep "vendor_id.*:.*VIA.*" /proc/cpuinfo && echo "Get real." && exit 1

[01:55:25]

conathan:

line 1473,

[01:55:29]

conathan:

I think...

[01:55:51]

Dagmar:

Are you talking about the cpu/arch/tune checking in the MythTV configure script?

[01:56:15]

conathan:

1472 arch="x86_64"

[01:56:15]

conathan:

1473 disabled cpu_override && ARCHFLAGS="-march=k8"

[01:56:15]

conathan:

1474 enable fast_64bit

[01:56:17]

conathan:

yeah

[01:56:24]

conathan:

probably just means k8 is ignored in 64bit or something

[01:56:41]

Dagmar:

That code is knackered.

[01:56:49]

Dagmar:

Like, severely knackered.

[01:57:21]

Dagmar:

It was cloned from something in ffmpeg, after the ffmpeg devs spent all weekend smoking crystal meth or something

[01:58:09]

Dagmar:

For like, half the pentiums that have a fast_cmov implementation, it sets things opposite what they should be

[01:58:49]

conathan:

well, I'm sure they had good intentions

[01:58:51]

Dagmar:

I'd fix it, if I could find half a day to devote to it, because it's just such a mess

[01:59:03]

Dagmar:

In the meantime just *set those params* yourself

[01:59:15]

conathan:

uname -m, might be a half decent guess

[01:59:20]

Dagmar:

Trust that it's just not going to get it right.

[02:00:10]

Dagmar:

Oh read through the configure script. It gets "looked at" in three different places and the logic in them is rather pretzel-like

[02:00:39]

conathan:

I can live with wrong, can live with unoptimized, but the k8 threw me for a loop

[02:01:05]

conathan:

hmm, I have a nagging suspicion my QT libraries have no OpenGL support

[02:01:07]

Dagmar:

I would say you can't live with K8 since it's going to result in gcc likely using opcodes your celery will choke on

[02:01:45]

conathan:

Core2 duo

[02:02:00]

conathan:

just was thinking back to the mythtv on my celeron when I saw that

[02:02:14]

Dagmar:

This isn't like the first days of "i686" where the most that would happen if you set the wrong profile was that your code might run a bit slower on one target than the other.

[02:02:18]

conathan:

(It half works, just segfaults when I go to the main menu)

[02:02:32]

Dagmar:

Now there's whole rafts-worth of opcodes that just immolate on the wrong target

[02:02:42]

conathan:

now that I know it tries to optimize, I can just recompile myth

[02:04:11]

Dagmar:

Man Raidmax makes some really freaking hideous cases

[02:09:14]

conathan:

OpenGL support ...... no

[02:09:21]

conathan:

ok, qt hates me today

[02:09:29]

** conathan goes back to tinkering **

[02:11:20]

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[02:14:41]

dustybin:

imagine a tool what could sync all your firefox bookmarks, saved passwords, cookies etc over the internet, so you could be at work and have firefox just the way you got it setup at home!

[02:15:03]

Sedorox:

that just got scrapped

[02:15:11]

dustybin:

why

[02:15:34]

Sedorox:

at least the google version of that

[02:15:50]

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[02:16:16]

dustybin:

Sedorox: its still here

[02:16:18]

dustybin:

http://www.google.com/tools/firefox/browsersync/

[02:16:27]

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[02:16:36]

Sedorox:

it isn't being developed anymore tho

[02:16:42]

Sedorox:

/supported

[02:17:06]

Sedorox:

http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2008/06/goog . . . ntinued.html

[02:17:07]

Dagmar:

Yes, imagine htat you're only two mouse-clicks away from accidentally pulling up all your favorite porn sites while you're at work

[02:17:30]

Dagmar:

ALL of them.

[02:17:47]

dustybin:

lol

[02:18:15]

Dagmar:

Remember that FF has the ability to pull up an entire folder's worth of bookmarks at once, in individual tabs.

[02:19:00]

dustybin:

Sedorox: http://labs.mozilla.com/2008/06/weave-status-update/

[02:19:21]

Sedorox:

nice

[02:20:53]

dustybin:

i have 2 desktops, 1 laptop, work computer, im sick of bookmarking on 1 machine

[02:21:01]

dustybin:

i want it all to be sync'd

[02:21:16]

Sedorox:

just share the profile between them all

[02:21:18]

dustybin:

im sick of trying to remember passwords

[02:21:38]

MinDKrime:

then dont use the internet

[02:21:40]

iamlindoro:

!trout dustybin topic

[02:21:40]

** MythLogBot slaps dustybin with a topic trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[02:21:48]

dustybin:

ok

[02:22:28]

dustybin:

im sick of bookmarking mythtv links on 1 machine, then not having access to the link on another :P

[02:22:54]

iamlindoro:

!trout dustybin bullshit

[02:22:54]

** MythLogBot slaps dustybin with a bullshit trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[02:23:04]

dustybin:

haha ok no more

[02:23:22]

iamlindoro:

The problem with this channel is that there's entirely too little trouting

[02:23:28]

Dagmar:

Man I am just driving myself insane over this case issue

[02:23:30]

MinDKrime:

ROFL

[02:23:35]

Dagmar:

I'm going to go have a smoke

[02:24:36]

conathan:

!a b c

[02:25:34]

conathan:

ok, qt's not linking against opengl, because opengl's missing...

[02:25:56]

Dagmar:

*snicker*

[02:26:18]

** conathan wonders if he can say anything to regain his dignity. **

[02:26:36]

iamlindoro:

"Goodbye, have a pleasant evening?"

[02:26:39]

iamlindoro:

;)

[02:26:52]

conathan:

time to reinstall mes

[02:26:53]

conathan:

a

[02:27:07]

conathan:

64bit is a pain...

[02:27:29]

conathan:

well, at least when you have buildscripts that have worked for years...

[02:27:41]

iamlindoro:

You must have gotten your degree at the clever school of answers without problems

[02:27:54]

Sedorox:

I don't have many issues with 64bit

[02:29:03]

conathan:

I wonder how I missed the fact I dont have libgl, or libglu (got libglut though)

[02:29:25]

conathan:

no, for being on a 64bit platform, my only issues are wrong directories

[02:30:43]

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[02:38:30]

Dagmar:

OKay. I think I've finally figured out what the deal is with HTPC cases.

[02:39:02]

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[02:39:08]

Dagmar:

These companies make all these ugly, hideous, weirdly-sized cases very cheap so that by the time you're done looking at all of them, you'll gladly shell out $300 and more for something USEFUL.

[02:39:37]

Dagmar:

justinh: Forget making MythTV remotes. We need to design a freaking case that doesn't suck and get someone to manufacture it for us.

[02:40:34]

Dagmar:

If a Micro ATX motherboard is 9.6 inches by 9.6 inches, it should be perfectly possible for someone to make a damn case that's less than 12 inches deep, suitable for putting on a bookshelf.

[02:40:55]

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[02:40:58]

Dagmar:

...but no.. they always seem to want to add four inches worth of useless plastic bullsh*t to the front of it.

[02:41:23]

Dagmar:

More irritating is the models which are clearly going to be part of a component system, but have a GIANT FREAKING VOLUME KNOB on the front.

[02:41:42]

Dagmar:

There is no point in that volume knob being there other than to piss me off..

[02:42:31]

Dagmar:

Everyone shelling out more than $100 for a metal box already has a stereo system separate from it. They're not using the freaking two-bit speaker pairs that came with their eMachine.

[02:43:33]

Dagmar:

More irritating than that are the LCD panels on the fronts of some of these things that do what? They tell you the temperature inside the case. NO ONE CARES THAT MUCH.

[02:43:59]

Dagmar:

If there's going to be a two-digit display on the front, it should be telling you what channel you're watching.

[02:44:02]

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[02:44:56]

Dagmar:

Everyone and their brother is using an IR remote, yet is there any indication that case makers are aware of this? If they are awware of it, they're expecting us to all break out the Dremel and carve a hole in the front ourselves.

[02:45:33]

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[02:46:00]

Dagmar:

What's wrong with shipping a case that has an IR transparent panel that covers the 3.5" floppy bay that mysteriously is built in, even though no one is using a 3.5" floppy in their HTPC because they're useless.

[02:47:13]

Dagmar:

Fans are important, and power supplies are square. Noise is hostile to HTPC so why the hell do so many of these things have a big vent (and usually a fan as well) on the front of the bloody case.

[02:48:01]

Dagmar:

They should make it so that you can turn the power supply 90 degrees and vent it either out the back or the front of the case as you choose, and give us a transplantable section on the opposite rear corners to accomplish the same thing on the other side.

[02:48:07]

dustybin:

Dagmar: is this a frontend only case?

[02:48:27]

Dagmar:

dustybin: It's a case that doesn't exist and it pisses me off that it doesn't exist.

[02:48:35]

dustybin:

aye

[02:48:49]

Dagmar:

Literally all the cases that don't costs upwards of $200 have a completely retarded design to them it seems

[02:49:14]

conathan:

Dagmar: do you have something against emachine speaker systems?

[02:50:08]

Dagmar:

conathan: Considering the sound quality is only good if you're sitting three feet from the screen? YES.

[02:50:33]

conathan:

poor emachines...

[02:50:35]

conathan:

such a rant

[02:50:45]

Dagmar:

I have been very impressed with what they've done with those scrawny little things, but the fact remains that they're not useful unless you have a TV disproportionately small.

[02:50:58]

conathan:

they made my stepbrothers computer screen wobble

[02:51:15]

Dagmar:

That sounds like some of their older ones with a cone

[02:51:26]

Dagmar:

What they're shipping now are flat and they don't invole massive magnets

[02:51:41]

conathan:

wires were paperthin, and seem to pick up interference

[02:54:28]

Dagmar:

Component racks tend to be 19" wide, not too much different from how racks in machine rooms are a given size, but so many of these idiots design cases that are NOT 19" wide, but instead are just about 19" deep.

[02:55:40]

Dagmar:

THey don't need to be that damn deep. No one is putting ancient "full length" ISA cards into them

[02:57:11]

Dagmar:

Everyone hates plastic doors, because they always feel cheap, and yet way many of these things have just that. Flimsy plastic doors covering the front.

[02:57:41]

Dagmar:

They'll crow to the heavens that the case itself is made with cold-rolled steel, but they'll put a door on teh thing that a loud fart will cause to fall open and possibly break off.

[02:57:41]

conathan:

Dagmar: hey, I paid good money for this SoundBlaster 16 pro

[02:58:27]

Dagmar:

Last week I was actually measuring the bases on LCD TVs at Best Buy. The majority of them are actually about 17" wide.

[02:59:02]

Dagmar:

...so if you're going to stick the thing under the TV as a stand, you get an inch of the stand hanging off each side of the (for god knows what reason) 15–16" wide and 17" deep case.

[02:59:33]

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[03:01:05]

Dagmar:

Even Antec's cases have got some seriously integrated stupid in them

[03:01:44]

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[03:01:53]

Dagmar:

The NSK1380 is a Micro ATX case. Again, a 9.6" board. It's a 10.6" high case, so it's not like the optical drive is going to be crowding the CPU cooler, so why the hell is the thing 13.2" deep?

[03:03:44]

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[03:08:57]

conathan:

that reminds me, I want to find a usb irda receiver

[03:10:17]

conathan:

well, someday,

[03:10:54]

conathan:

there we go, qt now has opengl support

[03:12:34]

conathan:

I wonder what the future holds for mythtv...

[03:15:39]

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[03:50:13]

whoDat_:

grr.. lost prime again

[03:50:36]

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[03:57:16]

Dagmar:

Sweet jesus I think I finally found a case that won't make me go on a killing spree

[03:58:23]

wagner:

Dagmar: i was actually looking around at some cases for this purpose a couple days ago

[03:58:39]

wagner:

supermicro has a couple not-deep 1U micro-atx cases

[03:58:48]

wagner:

although theyre probably loud as hell

[03:59:12]

Dagmar:

Loud is what I don't need

[03:59:20]

Dagmar:

Loud I have, in spades.

[03:59:59]

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[04:03:19]

Dagmar:

I think I'm getting the NSK2400 once I have a chance to get home and measure some things

[04:04:07]

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[04:04:26]

wagner:

fusion without the knob and VFD?

[04:04:27]

conathan:

Dagmar: killing spree?

[04:04:38]

conathan:

Dagmar: over cases?

[04:04:56]

wagner:

he has to measure his cellar, to determine the count of bodies it can hold

[04:05:26]

conathan:

BTW, wouldn't an atom based system be a good choice for fanless?

[04:05:32]

Dagmar:

I don't need a VFD.

[04:05:34]

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[04:05:43]

Dagmar:

Seriously. Other lights up near the TV are something I don't want

[04:05:57]

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[04:06:02]

wagner:

conathan: an atom is a worthless system until they release something better than a i945 to run it on

[04:06:13]

Dagmar:

Actually I have to measure the stereo, and the gap under the LCD TV.

[04:06:23]

Dagmar:

It's going under one of these things. I don't know which.

[04:06:37]

wagner:

the chipset uses 3x the power as the processor

[04:07:07]

conathan:

wagner: hmm, I guess that's a good point

[04:07:32]

Dagmar:

If you scroll way up you can see my long rant there...

[04:07:32]

Dagmar:

This case has none of those retarded qualities, other than it's slightly large

[04:07:40]

Dagmar:

The space is at least put to good use

[04:10:20]

wagner:

i dont understand why HTPC cases invariably have multiple 5.25" bays, and an assload of 3.5" bays

[04:11:09]

wagner:

are there really that few people who understand the virtues of cheap cat-5 and network file systems?

[04:12:22]

iamlindoro:

There are just many many more who like to.. whattaya call it... watch DVDs.

[04:12:35]

wagner:

so what do you need more than one bay for?

[04:13:09]

wagner:

there are some that have only one bay, but there are quite a few that have 2+

[04:13:46]

iamlindoro:

I challenge you to find me a legit HTPC case with 3 5.25" bays

[04:13:48]

Dagmar:

Hell, I'm moving most of the drives OUT of my box

[04:14:19]

iamlindoro:

linux/NFS/netboot HTPC users are by FAR the minority.

[04:14:40]

wagner:

i dont care about linux/NFS/netboot

[04:14:52]

wagner:

just throw a small boot disk in there, windows, and SMB

[04:15:39]

iamlindoro:

wagner: again, many/most HTPC users are not playing anything across the network. They want a STB-like experience.

[04:16:07]

iamlindoro:

HTPC users at a technical level to understand network file systems are the exception, *not* the rule

[04:16:20]

wagner:

iamlindoro: 15 seconds on newegg, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133169

[04:17:01]

wagner:

they dont have to understand network file systems, they need to be able to right click a folder on their desktop and hit 'share'

[04:17:27]

iamlindoro:

wagner: Read my lips. Most. HTPC. People. Don't. Want. To. Do. That.

[04:17:31]

wagner:

or with vista, open up windows media player and click share

[04:17:35]

iamlindoro:

They want to watch DVDs and have a tivo-thingie

[04:18:04]

wagner:

i suppose

[04:19:09]

wagner:

one of the guys i work with knows a lot about computers, programs fortran, uses supercomputers, and stuck 4-drive raid in a PC next to his tv

[04:19:36]

Dagmar:

Either way it doesn't much matter

[04:19:51]

Dagmar:

Especially now that you can get single unit 1Tb and 750Gb drivees.

[04:20:12]

Dagmar:

...and 500Gb drives are CHEAP, and that's way more space than a TiVO has in it.

[04:20:38]

wagner:

how much space do those typically have

[04:20:52]

wagner:

i know theyre rated at like 40–160hrs depending on the model

[04:21:39]

wagner:

oh, no, theyre considerably less than that

[04:21:45]

iamlindoro:

HD Tivo is a 500GB, but I believe that's top end

[04:21:59]

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[04:22:47]

Dagmar:

Pretty much everything requires dual-channel RAM configurations now, right?

[04:22:58]

wagner:

has, yes. requires, no.

[04:23:24]

wagner:

the socket 754 AMDs were the last chips not to support it

[04:23:33]

wagner:

i suppose maybe some VIA machines dont support it

[04:23:59]

Dagmar:

Well, I guess I can justify a Gb of RAM to deal with the MySQL server

[04:24:18]

Dagmar:

Ya just can't find 2x512 kits of DDR2 800 it seems

[04:25:01]

wagner:

not much point when you can get 2x1GB for $30

[04:25:18]

wagner:

less memory may save a little power, but its marginally cheaper

[04:25:35]

Dagmar:

Yeah RAM is damn cheap

[04:28:33]

Dagmar:

I'm lookin' at spending $243.96 before taxes and shipping

[04:29:01]

wagner:

case and all?

[04:29:16]

Dagmar:

Antec NSK2480, ASRock ALiveNF7G, Athlon X2 4600+ Windsor, and 2x512Mb Corsair RAM

[04:29:27]

Dagmar:

It should goddamn well be able to play back x264 at 720

[04:30:00]

Dagmar:

Now I'm going to go check the motherboard manuals

[04:30:04]

wagner:

my 3200+ single core can play back 720p (downloaded)

[04:30:09]

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[04:30:24]

Moonstorm:

are there any vendors in the US that sell mythtv boxes?

[04:30:33]

Dagmar:

not likely

[04:30:41]

wagner:

although thats to a SDTV at 640x480, i dont know how much difference that makes

[04:31:00]

Moonstorm:

because of dvd restrictions?

[04:31:09]

Moonstorm:

or are there pvr restrictions as well?

[04:31:09]

Dagmar:

No, because of GPL in part.

[04:31:14]

Moonstorm:

?

[04:31:17]

Dagmar:

It ain't like you can't build the things

[04:31:28]

Dagmar:

...and just drop in KnoppMyth

[04:31:32]

Moonstorm:

why? build a box, and sell the box with mythtv

[04:31:46]

iamlindoro:

http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44

[04:31:54]

dagar:

wagner: 720p h264?

[04:31:57]

iamlindoro:

waste of money, though. Build your own

[04:32:00]

iamlindoro:

it's easy

[04:32:33]

iamlindoro:

If you're not savvy enough to build it, you're probably not savvy enough to run it.

[04:32:54]

Dagmar:

Moonstorm: Look at the price that site has, and then look at the ~$250 figure I was just talking about.

[04:33:06]

Dagmar:

Granted, I've alreayd got the tuners and more drives than I know what to do with, but still

[04:33:10]

Dagmar:

That's a hell of a difference.

[04:33:14]

Moonstorm:

While the hardware and underlying software supports ripping and playback of DVDs, there is currently no legal means to decrypt CSS-encrypted DVD content in Linux in the USA, and we do not support those capabilities. However, Dragon is still a general-purpose computer, and we cannot prevent people using it as such. – this is what i was wondering about

[04:33:43]

Dagmar:

I could have the parts warranty extended, have everything shipped to me red tag fed-ex, add another drive and PVR-500, and build TWO for the price they're selling one for

[04:33:58]

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[04:33:58]

iamlindoro:

That's the wink wink nudge nudge way of saying "once you get this box, apt-get install libdvdcss2 and you'll be all set"

[04:34:03]

Dagmar:

This is largely not considered to be price-competitive

[04:35:26]

conathan:

Dagmar: I won

[04:35:51]

wagner:

Dagmar: average of ~5Mbit, 1280x528

[04:35:52]

iamlindoro:

Like Dagmar said... just click the "hardware specs" link, buy all that stuff, cut the price in half, put it together, and drop in a mythbuntu or knoppmyth cd.

[04:35:59]

Dagmar:

conathan: Finally forced Qt to do your bidding?

[04:36:03]

wagner:

mplayer is bouncing between 30% and 60%

[04:36:08]

conathan:

Dagmar: not just qt, but mythtv

[04:36:11]

Moonstorm:

iamlindoro yep, i know. it's sad they won't license dvdcss

[04:36:14]

Dagmar:

WHoa

[04:36:21]

conathan:

Dagmar: took /usr/lib64 out of etc/ld.so.conf, and it still worked (:

[04:36:21]

Dagmar:

Someone needs to explain to ASRock what "Quick" means.

[04:36:28]

Dagmar:

The user manual is 57 pages.

[04:36:29]

conathan:

Dagmar: boots quicker then 1 min

[04:36:36]

Dagmar:

The "Quick Installation Guide" is somehow *232* pages.

[04:36:38]

iamlindoro:

Moonstorm: who is "they?" The DVD consortium will happily sell CSS to implementors

[04:36:51]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: Actually, they won't.

[04:36:53]

Dagmar:

Not for Linux.

[04:36:59]

iamlindoro:

ergo the several legal linux DVD players that have existed over the years

[04:37:02]

iamlindoro:

Dagmar: not so

[04:37:07]

Dagmar:

It was a serious coup that RedHat/Novell pulled it off

[04:37:15]

iamlindoro:

There have been several legal linux DVD players

[04:37:20]

Moonstorm:

hrm, really? i wonder why nobody has contracted overseas and had a box built with dvd extensions installed

[04:37:41]

iamlindoro:

That's not to say they will install on anything *modern*, but it's been done

[04:37:52]

iamlindoro:

linDVD being the most obvious

[04:38:01]

iamlindoro:

And that's straight from Intervideo

[04:38:19]

Dagmar:

I'll say this. Fuck 'em.

[04:38:21]

conathan:

well, how does that css license work anyway?

[04:38:37]

conathan:

I mean,if intervideo is licensed to sell css enabled devices...

[04:38:44]

Dagmar:

I bought the player, I bought the DVD. If they want to try and charge me because other people might steal things, fuck 'em.

[04:38:55]

iamlindoro:

conathan: individuals can't buy one, and you can't decrypt your DVDs other than in playback, and it has to be closed source. Oh, and give them lots of money.

[04:39:22]

Dagmar:

By that measure I should be able to sue that licencing body because some of their member companies are stealing my fair use rights.

[04:39:26]

Dagmar:

That's not a bad idea acutally

[04:39:30]

Moonstorm:

yes, and i imagine that is the stumbling block to selling mythtv turnkey boxes in the us

[04:39:40]

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[04:39:53]

iamlindoro:

Moonstorm: There *is* no stumbling block. The stumbling block is nobody makes any money doing it

[04:40:12]

iamlindoro:

You can happily make and sell all the myth boxes you like in the US.

[04:40:39]

conathan:

I can?

[04:40:41]

Moonstorm:

when you can buy a tivo for less than you can buy a turn key mythtv box, one has to wonder why?

[04:40:46]

iamlindoro:

Myth proper won't play encrypted DVDs out of the box, so Myth itself is not a problem in the list

[04:40:48]

iamlindoro:

s/list/least

[04:40:53]

conathan:

conathan's mythtv boxes? nice.

[04:40:58]

** conathan renames it a mythtivo **

[04:41:15]

wagner:

it wont play encrypted DVDs, but i bet you can put a button with a disclaimer that recompiles that ability in

[04:41:32]

iamlindoro:

yup, and that's more or less what the US based Dragon guys do

[04:41:40]

Moonstorm:

it would be mythivo

[04:41:53]

Moonstorm:

ah, comythivo

[04:42:30]

Moonstorm:

heh, they are treading a fine grey line

[04:44:14]

Dagmar:

Hah. So that's it... The "Quick Installation Guide" is (for some reason) the User Manual translated into a buncha different languages.

[04:44:47]

Dagmar:

I swear I will probably go to sleep tonight hugging the printed manual, this has been such a pain

[04:45:39]

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[04:47:52]

wagner:

i should really get around to writing

[04:48:00]

wagner:

ive been avoiding it for about a month or so

[04:48:10]

Dagmar:

Writing what?

[04:48:16]

wagner:

masters thesis

[04:57:18]

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[05:06:12]

Dagmar:

O... Yeah that sounds important

[05:07:53]

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[05:17:45]

wagner:

i just never like actually starting writing these things

[05:18:02]

wagner:

once i get started, i can churn things out, its that first couple sentances

[05:18:43]

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[06:22:29]

Ace2016:

Hi all

[06:22:37]

Ace2016:

what is the command for viewing writes?

[06:22:43]

Ace2016:

for showing them in dmesg?

[06:27:04]

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[06:30:18]

Ace2016:

ok found it

[06:30:39]

Ace2016:

and man oh man, a massive number of writes by mythtv, wtf was it doing?

[06:31:26]

Ace2016:

mythbackend(5634): dirtied inode 201669616 (mythbackend.log) on md0

[06:35:50]

Ace2016:

over and over and over again

[06:36:30]

Ace2016:

mythbackend(5634): WRITE block 48870179 on md0

[06:36:30]

Ace2016:

mythbackend(5634): dirtied inode 201669616 (mythbackend.log) on md0

[06:36:46]

Ace2016:

Should i stop using mythtv? this is bad for my raid right?

[06:43:59]

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[07:02:36]

sid3windr:

ehh, never heard of logs? :P

[07:05:50]

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[07:31:40]

justinh:

Dagmar: I started drawing a HTPC case design a while back. on the shelf like so many of my other projects

[07:32:17]

wagner:

hopefully something that would be buildable from commonly available tools?

[07:32:21]

justinh:

standard 430mm wide, 2U high

[07:32:26]

justinh:

nope

[07:33:03]

justinh:

unless people have metal bending jigs at home ;)

[07:34:02]

wagner:

depending on the thickness of the metal, all you need is some bar stock and some hinges

[07:34:36]

sid3windr:

the gpl htpc case!

[07:35:01]

wagner:

build your own arm powered bender

[07:37:40]

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[07:40:57]

Ace2016:

would it not cost more for you to build the case yourself?

[07:41:54]

wagner:

if you already had the tools to do so, the material would cost far far less

[07:42:07]

justinh:

time is the greatest cost

[07:42:19]

justinh:

but at least you could get exactly what you want

[07:42:29]

Ace2016:

doubt it

[07:42:41]

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[07:44:30]

justinh:

how many HTPC cases have front panel ports spoiling their appearance? how many have IR transmissive windows on the front?

[07:44:39]

justinh:

how many aren't the size of wardrobes?

[07:45:01]

anykey_:

justinh: exactly my point, though I bought an old KISS player and just replaced the front...

[07:46:45]

Ace2016:

actually most have covers for those front ports

[07:47:15]

zherlock:

Anyone here know of a IRC channel for minimyth?

[07:47:25]

zherlock:

I need to add a audio driver to minimyth it seems

[07:47:32]

wagner:

anykey_: did i miss a line somewhere, because i dont have any comments from you for a considerable backlog

[07:48:23]

justinh:

zherlock: no irc channel for minimyth. better to use their forum

[07:48:49]

anykey_:

wagner: no, you didn't miss anything, I'm just reading most of the time ;)

[07:49:30]

wagner:

well im missing a previous point that you were confirming

[07:50:01]

anykey_:

wagner: "my point" was related to what justinh said about HTPC cases

[07:50:11]

wagner:

ah, ok

[07:51:08]

wagner:

so you gutted an old DVD player to put your frontend in

[07:51:35]

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[07:51:40]

anykey_:

yeah

[07:51:49]

anykey_:

actually combined frontend/backend

[07:52:26]

anykey_:

wagner: http://flickr.com/photos/chguedel/2456454225/ (not finished yet)

[07:52:36]

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[07:53:39]

wagner:

how do you intend to cool it?

[07:54:01]

anykey_:

wagner: a 60mm fan on the left of the CPU, that'll suffice

[07:54:29]

wagner:

ah, i didnt recognize the fan over there

[07:54:33]

anykey_:

[07:55:19]

Ace2016:

my case arrived

[07:55:31]

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[07:58:04]

wagner:

i guess taking the power supply out of the case makes a big difference too

[07:58:33]

wagner:

for a small one, thats probably an extra ~30W under load

[07:58:41]

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[07:58:54]

anykey_:

wagner: saves space and puts some of the heat out of the case, yes. and 120W will do it for this system...

[07:59:50]

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[07:59:57]

wagner:

what processor is that? looks like a Core2 heatsink

[08:01:04]

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[08:01:29]

wagner:

weve got a bunch of E6600 compute nodes at work im looking to switch over to DC

[08:01:32]

Ace2016:

anykey_: how is it powered? i do not see a psu

[08:01:44]

anykey_:

wagner: the sys is a Core2Duo E6550 2.33Ghz, 2gb of ram, gigabyte ga-g33m-s2h (dvi/hdmi intel graphics), and a dvb-s(2)/dvb-c tuner card. plus a slimline dvd-burner

[08:01:52]

anykey_:

Ace2016: picoPSU, look on the ATX power connector

[08:01:55]

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[08:01:57]

wagner:

i rated them at 115W peak under load

[08:02:02]

Ace2016:

just saw, picoatx

[08:02:09]

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[08:02:16]

wagner:

but that was including the crappy inwin-style power supplies

[08:02:41]

wagner:

im wondering if maybe we can get by with the 90s

[08:02:53]

anykey_:

wagner: I tried with the 80W version of the picoPSU, wasn't enough when the dvd drive spinned up

[08:03:01]

anykey_:

90W that is

[08:03:18]

wagner:

no optical drive, but there is a single platter 3.5" in each of them

[08:03:43]

wagner:

2gb, gigabyte 965 board

[08:03:56]

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[08:04:10]

anykey_:

ah, I also got an LCD attached to the system

[08:04:31]

wagner:

i cant tell what that is on the right

[08:04:43]

wagner:

2.5" drive, and a CF card? and whats the red thing?

[08:05:30]

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[08:05:55]

wagner:

ah, theres additional pictures

[08:06:01]

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[08:06:32]

anykey_:

wagner: 2.5" drive, CF2SATA converter

[08:07:16]

justinh:

anykey_: where did you get that heatsink? I could do with one of them

[08:07:27]

wagner:

its the generic intel heatsink

[08:07:29]

wagner:

minus the fan

[08:07:36]

anykey_:

exactly

[08:07:43]

justinh:

ahhhh

[08:08:48]

justinh:

I bet there's even room for you to get one of those USB keyboard controllers mame cabinet builders use which'd let you hook up the front panel buttons too

[08:09:31]

Ace2016:

ah it didn't come with instructions :(

[08:09:56]

anykey_:

justinh: I don't want any front buttons ;)

[08:10:00]

wagner:

instructions for a case?

[08:10:02]

anykey_:

justinh: just the power button, no more

[08:10:19]

justinh:

heh ok

[08:10:30]

wagner:

no reset?

[08:10:37]

anykey_:

no, no reset ;)

[08:11:00]

wagner:

man, our latest batch of computer nodes came with reset buttons (the old ones just had power)

[08:11:02]

Ace2016:

yes, it has imon and no instructions on how to connect it to the motherboard and psu, the psu is easy but there are extra connectors which don't make sense

[08:11:04]

wagner:

its amazing how nice it is

[08:11:26]

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[08:11:46]

anykey_:

wagner: I don't think I should need a reset button ;)

[08:11:50]

wagner:

its not just a USB header?

[08:12:06]

wagner:

im going to bed...

[08:12:12]

Ace2016:

nope, there are extra connectors

[08:19:31]

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[08:38:38]

Dagmar:

JOY!

[08:38:51]

Dagmar:

You know, LVM doesn't really like it when you *move disks around*

[08:38:57]

Dagmar:

Not one bit.

[08:40:58]

Dagmar:

Anyone got any talent with re-vivifying an LVM filesystem?

[08:41:40]

Ace2016:

oh it was only the front panel audio connectors

[08:42:10]

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[08:42:25]

Ace2016:

Dagmar: yea lvm is a bad idea, have multiple drives mounted to /storage/disk1 instead

[08:43:39]

Dagmar:

Ace: Dude, this is not the time to try to say silly things like that

[08:43:43]

Dagmar:

Seriously.

[08:44:05]

sid3windr:

Ace2016: how would you do that exactly? :P

[08:44:07]

Dagmar:

When I did the last rebuild of the machine, I jsut added a whole nother 500Gb disk as /space and left my lvm disks alone

[08:44:19]

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[08:44:30]

Dagmar:

Turns out LVM doesn't LIKE IT when you move disks about. It changes the filesystem uuid.

[08:44:37]

Dagmar:

This is, very not good.

[08:45:00]

Dagmar:

I gotta remember what damn command shows me the NEW uuids and I can probably get around this

[08:45:31]

Dagmar:

'cuz you know, data on *non mounted drives* is generally considered safe

[08:46:40]

sid3windr:

auch

[08:46:45]

Dagmar:

Ace2016: ...and considering the way I baby my equipment, LVM is actually a perfectly FINE way of doing things

[08:46:51]

sid3windr:

very auch

[08:46:57]

sid3windr:

Dagmar: vol_id ?

[08:47:27]

Ace2016:

and what if a hard disk fails?

[08:50:00]

Dagmar:

Unless I have a complete controller failure, even if a drive starts showing bad sectors you can just add another disk, and prod LVM and tell it "Hey, here's another disk. Oh and that other disk is going bad. Get the stuff off it." and it will take your stuff off the bad disk.

[08:50:22]

quicksilver:

I find LVM-over-RAID is a good compromise.

[08:50:22]

Dagmar:

...and by "showing bad sectors" I mean smartd starts telling me about them.

[08:50:34]

quicksilver:

makes upgrading to new disks easy.

[08:50:35]

Dagmar:

I don't screw around when I'm dealing with terabytes

[08:50:35]

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[08:51:44]

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[08:52:19]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: what do you mean 'move arond'? You moved disks onto other controllers?

[08:52:22]

Ace2016:

Dagmar: how would you know when its going bad exactly? i want to try

[08:54:14]

Dagmar:

ace: `man smartctl` and `man smartd`

[08:54:20]

Dagmar:

There's howtos literally all over about dealing with smartd

[08:55:16]

sid3windr:

:)

[08:55:21]

** sid3windr has 3 raid5's lvm'd together **

[08:55:23]

sid3windr:

works v. nicely

[08:55:27]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Yep. Gotta love it.

[08:55:49]

Dagmar:

I took the optical drive off the second IDE bus and put it on the first with the boot drive.

[08:56:02]

Dagmar:

...which means I basically swapped hdb and hdc

[08:56:07]

Ace2016:

sid3windr: why? is that not a waste of space? why not 2 raid5s?

[08:57:32]

Dagmar:

Oh

[08:57:33]

Dagmar:

LOL

[08:57:46]

Dagmar:

Pfft. The evil thing was just playing up

[08:57:57]

sid3windr:

Ace2016: because 5x320G 4x200G 4x250G

[08:58:05]

Dagmar:

Drives GO TO SLEEP when you leave htem alone for days on end, unmounted and unloved.

[08:58:06]

sid3windr:

so why not one raid6, should be your question

[08:58:11]

sid3windr:

and the above should be your answer ;)

[08:58:11]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: working now?

[08:58:16]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Yep. Thank god.

[08:58:20]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: because I was going to day "that's not supposed to happen"

[08:58:21]

Dagmar:

I am *really* anal about my MP3's

[08:58:30]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: LVM writes magic numbers onto the partitions it uses

[08:58:37]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: its' supposed to recognise them wherever they end up

[08:58:42]

quicksilver:

(for precisely this kind of reason)

[08:58:50]

justinh:

now I'm really anal about my sounds. no more mp3

[08:58:54]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Yeah, but I figured the uuids changed until I started poking ad /dev/hdd with hdparm

[08:58:59]

Dagmar:

It wouldn't respond.

[08:59:08]

Dagmar:

A power off and reboot sorted it

[08:59:12]

quicksilver:

One of the reasons I like using RAID and LVM is they both insulate you form the BIOS

[08:59:14]

Ace2016:

sid3windr: hang on a sec, what case is that in? thats too many drives for a htpc case, external usb?

[08:59:21]

sid3windr:

Ace2016: supermicro sc942

[08:59:28]

quicksilver:

neither of them cares about either BIOS disk names or linux disk names.

[08:59:34]

quicksilver:

they just find them.

[08:59:56]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Yeah, but it's easy to freak out when you've spent about 40 hours painstakingly retagging metadata and putting in album covers and so forth

[08:59:58]

Ace2016:

so you probably have a separate back end and a fron tend

[09:00:08]

quicksilver:

I have LVM-over-RAID5 and I was able to upgrade my system from a 250/250/400/400 to a 500/500/400/400

[09:00:09]

Dagmar:

Not to mention about, oh, 700Mb of recordings

[09:00:18]

Ace2016:

700MB>

[09:00:18]

quicksilver:

and that didn't require a single copy of a file

[09:00:20]

Ace2016:

?

[09:00:21]

sid3windr:

Ace2016: yes, the rackmount thing is not below my tv ;)

[09:00:23]

Dagmar:

er 700GB

[09:00:24]

quicksilver:

all done with raid rebuild

[09:00:25]

Dagmar:

Sorry. hehe

[09:00:30]

quicksilver:

;)

[09:01:14]

Dagmar:

I have a lotta damn drives in this box. It's the main reason I'm about to spend $300 and get a whole new frontend, take the boot disk out of this thing, turn it into a fileserver only and put it in the study with the mean nasty UPSes, and just start NFS mounting over GigE

[09:01:41]

Ace2016:

quicksilver: why raid5? why not raid1 LVM?

[09:01:59]

Ace2016:

i got a cheap 20" monitor too

[09:02:09]

Ace2016:

now i just need a processor

[09:02:20]

Dagmar:

ace: What kind of motherboard

[09:02:22]

sid3windr:

heheh

[09:02:27]

quicksilver:

Ace2016: just because I'm cheap.

[09:02:29]

sid3windr:

hardware is always fun

[09:02:33]

quicksilver:

Ace2016: I don't want to waste 50% of my disk space

[09:02:38]

quicksilver:

Ace2016: 25% I can stomach.

[09:02:41]

Dagmar:

If it's not Intel, there's not a whole lot about AMD I haven't had to go look up int he last week

[09:03:00]

quicksilver:

On a work machine I'd always do RAID1.

[09:03:04]

sid3windr:

intel AND amd should stop doing their weird processor number shit

[09:03:08]

quicksilver:

But when its my own cash, I'll do 5

[09:03:20]

justinh:

sid3windr: ditto

[09:03:22]

Dagmar:

sid3: Well, at least AMD still tells us something approaching a speed rating

[09:03:27]

sid3windr:

not anymore they don't

[09:03:44]

Dagmar:

You notice Intel just *stopped* with the "we'll make entirely random numbers up for each chip" thing

[09:03:52]

sid3windr:

and intel's "pentium dual core" = wtf. it's not a pentium d, it's a c2d celeron celeron!

[09:04:11]

Dagmar:

What do you mean not anymore they don't

[09:04:28]

sid3windr:

the new amd's don't have a speedrating

[09:04:33]

Dagmar:

I have literally done a clock-cycle-per-dollar chart of just about every damn AMD CPU NewEgg has

[09:04:34]

sid3windr:

it's some number built up like intel's number

[09:04:45]

Dagmar:

The Phenoms? They're all listed by core speed now

[09:04:49]

Dagmar:

It's nice and up front

[09:04:50]

sid3windr:

hmm

[09:04:51]

sid3windr:

:)

[09:05:07]

sid3windr:

but it's not the performance index of comparing them to the intels is it :)

[09:05:07]

Dagmar:

They tell you if there's three cores or four and how fast they go

[09:05:14]

sid3windr:

like 2400+, 4000+, 4200+ etc

[09:05:24]

Dagmar:

No, it's actually a much less annoying way than anyone's done since like, 1998

[09:05:30]

sid3windr:

:]

[09:05:47]

Dagmar:

...and honestly, I've not seen those PR numbers to be very far off the mark

[09:05:48]

sid3windr:

I was always an amd guy, but when I'll be updating my workstation I'm sure it's going to be a core 2 quad

[09:06:08]

Ace2016:

not phenom

[09:06:11]

sid3windr:

I was always an ati guy, but my next graphics card will be an nvidia 8800 :p

[09:06:11]

Ace2016:

?

[09:06:29]

Dagmar:

If I were wanting to spend $140 on a CPU I could get an X3 from NewEgg

[09:06:34]

sid3windr:

dunno – they have a few months to prove themselves :p

[09:06:44]

sid3windr:

I'm currently on a xp 2400+ with 2GB DDR and a Radeon X1650 Pro

[09:06:54]

sid3windr:

but once GTA4 comes out for PC I'll want to play it ;)

[09:07:01]

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[09:07:14]

Dagmar:

sid3windr: You will be amazed at the difference dealing with nVidia makes

[09:07:41]

Ace2016:

good luck finding the cheapest nvidia ;)

[09:08:06]

Dagmar:

That part's dead easy. NewEgg, sort by price.

[09:08:08]

sid3windr:

I have nvidia's in my frontends because of shitty ati drivers already ;)

[09:08:18]

sid3windr:

but on windows ati was fine

[09:08:24]

sid3windr:

I'm just pretty sure nvidia will be more than fine

[09:08:27]

justinh:

yeah well ATI are starting to pull their socks up now

[09:08:35]

directhex:

justinh, so people say.

[09:08:38]

justinh:

with their own drivers anyway

[09:08:41]

sid3windr:

we develop 3d apps and ATI's opengl is just frakked up

[09:08:44]

directhex:

justinh, i'll be the judge, jury & executioner on that

[09:08:49]

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[09:08:55]

justinh:

I still wouldn't buy ATI

[09:09:18]

justinh:

not even for a windows machine

[09:09:24]

Dagmar:

justinh: 'ja see my rant earlier?

[09:09:48]

justinh:

which one? about cases? I agree

[09:10:10]

Dagmar:

justinh: Yeah. I am seriously considering doing a mockup with Google Sketchup and firing it off to a few people

[09:10:23]

sid3windr:

I'm still pondering about getting that one htpc case from ebay I found

[09:10:25]

sid3windr:

it looks pretty nice

[09:10:39]

Dagmar:

Who makes it?

[09:10:47]

sid3windr:

it's a "tsunami" or something

[09:10:50]

sid3windr:

looking up url :)

[09:11:01]

Dagmar:

TT makes it

[09:11:09]

Dagmar:

Iv'e looked at a LOT of goddamn cases this last week

[09:11:38]

Dagmar:

You should be pleased to know thta front piece is actually aluminum and not plastic

[09:11:48]

Ace2016:

htpc cases with imon are expensive

[09:11:55]

justinh:

gbee's been raving about his and I can see why – though I'd rather have the model without the stupid front ports

[09:11:56]

Dagmar:

http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cases/ . . . mi/1001.html

[09:12:07]

directhex:

urgh

[09:12:27]

directhex:

i mean, for a thermaltake it has fewer go-faster stripes and faux-carbon-fibre checkerboards

[09:12:29]

directhex:

and flame decals

[09:12:31]

directhex:

but still

[09:12:35]

Dagmar:

Ace2016: This would be why you get them without it and just buy somethign directly from Matrix Orbital or whoever you like

[09:12:46]

Dagmar:

Not MUCH of a price savings, but at least you know exactly what you're getting

[09:12:57]

justinh:

wtf use are front panel displays anyway?!

[09:13:10]

Dagmar:

justinh: Why, for extra light pollution of course.

[09:13:12]

Ace2016:

oh feck, my heatsink doesn't fit

[09:13:38]

justinh:

ffs what the fack was that fugly motherloving case? ricer specials R us.com ?

[09:13:46]

Dagmar:

justinh: There's worse

[09:13:48]

Dagmar:

FAR worse

[09:13:51]

justinh:

oh I know

[09:14:18]

justinh:

are there cases designed to appeal to people who aren't 13 year old asians with peachfuzz moustaches?

[09:14:26]

quicksilver:

I'm fairly happy with my silverstone

[09:14:30]

quicksilver:

it's a bit monolithic

[09:14:34]

Dagmar:

Like http://www.directron.com/atx928wo.html

[09:14:39]

quicksilver:

but it blends reasonably well with the denon hifi

[09:14:51]

directhex:

justinh, http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-67-1.htm

[09:14:54]

Dagmar:

It's good that it's got a silent fan because the front of it is as LOUD AS A PIMPS SPORTCOAT

[09:15:06]

justinh:

I like my lc02 but it's too big, and yet not big enough due to the placement of the optical drive bay

[09:15:12]

directhex:

Dagmar, you win

[09:15:20]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: I lost all respect for Denon this week

[09:15:22]

Dagmar:

I'm sure you know whyt

[09:15:28]

Dagmar:

I forgot to call and harass them today.

[09:15:39]

directhex:

i still need to bitch at onkyo

[09:15:41]

quicksilver:

I don't think I was following, no.

[09:15:41]

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[09:15:52]

Dagmar:

"Yes, ma'am, I have a question about the digital ethernet audio cable... How high were your people exactly when they put a price on that?"

[09:16:04]

quicksilver:

justinh: mine is big but then I wanted a case which could hold 4 disks + optical

[09:16:13]

quicksilver:

justinh: so it wasn't likely to be small :)

[09:16:21]

Dagmar:

Dude they listed a five foot ethernet cable for FIVE HUNDRED FARKING DOLLARS

[09:16:24]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: Oh, yes.

[09:16:30]

Dagmar:

REAL money. Not monopoly money

[09:16:32]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: One of my friends pasted that at work :)

[09:17:10]

Dagmar:

For $500 it better be solid gold wire made from recycled nuns' teeth and wrapped in fucking unicorn hair

[09:17:17]

directhex:

Dagmar, it's gold plated – it makes the music more full-bodied and warmer!

[09:17:35]

Dagmar:

directhex: I have so jumped salespersons' stuff for saying things like that to me

[09:17:51]

Dagmar:

"It's the gold on the USB 2.0 contacts that makes the electricity go faster."

[09:18:07]

directhex:

i liked the monster-versus-coathanger comparison

[09:18:22]

Dagmar:

Coathanger == nice thick wire, very low impedance.

[09:18:40]

Dagmar:

Can take abuse, is also very cheap.

[09:18:42]

directhex:

monster costs a smidge more

[09:20:21]

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[09:20:34]

justinh:

hi-fi buffs (or paedophiles, as they like to be called) are suspicious of anything that carries a low price tag, so avoid it

[09:20:39]

waxhead_:

hi everyone...

[09:20:58]

waxhead_:

justinh: just want to say thanks for last night...

[09:21:04]

Dagmar:

justinh: Well, with some of the shady shit I've seen I can't blame 'em.

[09:21:09]

waxhead_:

stuck the new nvidia card in and life is grand!

[09:21:19]

waxhead_:

not problems like last night...

[09:21:28]

Dagmar:

"What's Labtec mean?" "Why it means, 'cheapest shit imaginable'"

[09:21:51]

Dagmar:

"Chinese for 'sounds like ass'" is also an acceptable answer

[09:21:59]

justinh:

I mean, only $500 for that cable? if a dearer one is available they're not gonna buy the $500 one

[09:22:00]

Dagmar:

I wouldn't use labtec stuff as *props*

[09:22:33]

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[09:22:48]

Dagmar:

I have some old Altec Lansing speakers from when they were sucking large back in the early 90's and they *still* sound better than anything Labtec makes

[09:24:47]

Ace2016:

Anyone know a good quiet heatsink for an am2 X2 4800+

[09:25:15]

Dagmar:

Aim for something made by TT with as wide a fan as possible

[09:25:23]

Dagmar:

big fan == slow rotation == less noise

[09:26:06]

directhex:

altec make some nice-sounding speakers, all things considered

[09:26:09]

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[09:26:50]

Ace2016:

i have a Scythe but its too big

[09:27:12]

Dagmar:

Ah so this is where you will be glad to know NewEgg generally tells you how big the things are

[09:27:53]

Ace2016:

it didn't look that big in the picture

[09:29:37]

Dagmar:

For a mid-tower, you're generally safe

[09:29:47]

Dagmar:

I take it you're putting this in something narrower than a mid-tower?

[09:29:48]

Ace2016:

its a htpc case

[09:29:51]

Dagmar:

Yep.

[09:29:59]

Dagmar:

You gotta sometimes go the Zalman route with those.

[09:30:05]

Dagmar:

Heat pipes and a weird shaped HSF

[09:30:25]

Dagmar:

Very few moving parts on a lot of Zalman coolers tho'.

[09:30:30]

Dagmar:

They've got that in their favor. ;)

[09:31:13]

justinh:

well, if this friday night is a flop it'll be because they've only promoted it on facebook. for FUCK'S sakes

[09:31:36]

Dagmar:

Ah just link it oevr at MySpace

[09:31:41]

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[09:31:45]

justinh:

oh well, so long as I get paid wtf

[09:31:52]

sid3windr:

hmm

[09:31:56]

sid3windr:

got called away

[09:32:52]

sid3windr:

Dagmar: http://www.telfordmedia.co.uk/OnlineStore/Hom . . . cProductName <- this is the case I meant

[09:33:10]

Dagmar:

BitchX loves you. You know that don't you.

[09:33:21]

sid3windr:

dude, really, get a real client ;)

[09:33:26]

Ace2016:

who is bitchx?

[09:33:42]

sid3windr:

http://tinyurl.com/4ejqdx for you!

[09:33:55]

** quicksilver seconds the recommendation for Zalman **

[09:34:02]

justinh:

ooo goody goody goatse

[09:34:13]

quicksilver:

I have a Zalman superflower, the fan is effectively silent (quieter than my hard disks spinning)

[09:34:16]

Ace2016:

oh screws, i need to get screws

[09:34:22]

quicksilver:

and it shifts quite a bit of general air in the case

[09:34:26]

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[09:34:40]

justinh:

Dagmar: myspaz members generally aren't of drinking age

[09:34:42]

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[09:34:56]

Ace2016:

yes but they do drink

[09:34:59]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Oh they cheated

[09:35:09]

quicksilver:

Dagmar: ?

[09:35:10]

justinh:

yeah but I wouldn't want them as an audience

[09:35:11]

Dagmar:

Put a big lump in the top of the case like some kind of tumor

[09:35:57]

quicksilver:

;)

[09:35:59]

sid3windr:

=)

[09:36:04]

sid3windr:

yeah you already said that once ;)

[09:36:23]

sid3windr:

this means you have to use the stock intel cooler though

[09:36:33]

sid3windr:

I have an akasa in my other mythfrontend, but it's like 2.5cm higher than a stock intel one

[09:36:48]

sid3windr:

so won't fit this chassis I bet

[09:37:02]

Dagmar:

Probably not

[09:37:44]

Dagmar:

I pretty much plan on sticking with teh stock HSF in the new case until I get everything else squared away in there, and then I'll see how much space is left

[09:38:34]

Dagmar:

hah gf is fussing at me because she just got an mp3 player and half my collection is OGG format.

[09:38:42]

justinh:

muhahahaha

[09:39:38]

Ace2016:

tell her to rename them to mp3 ;)

[09:40:22]

Dagmar:

I was always rather picky abotu encoding to ogg, until I found out what Creative Playcenter could do

[09:40:24]

justinh:

what frickin use is an open source format which very few hardware players support anyway?

[09:40:42]

justinh:

and don't say rockbox. Don't

[09:40:44]

Dagmar:

justinh: I suspect at some point there will be exposure of some anti-competitive stuff over that

[09:40:49]

justinh:

chocolate fireguard springs to mind

[09:40:55]

Dagmar:

I wasn't about to say Rockbox, because it doesn't run on shit

[09:41:09]

Dagmar:

Wow. Eight models of player you can maybe find on eBay.

[09:41:11]

Dagmar:

Very useful that

[09:41:18]

directhex:

it's enormously functional, though

[09:41:30]

Dagmar:

It's easier to just buy a Toshiba Libretto off eBay

[09:41:37]

directhex:

it's not as if there are many players out there whose stock firmwares do things like proper gapless playback

[09:41:42]

Dagmar:

Less bullshit, x86 based, and a LOT larger storage area

[09:42:00]

justinh:

it's not as if there are many players around which CAN run rockbox these days

[09:42:05]

Dagmar:

Just a mite large for the average shirt pocket tho

[09:42:06]

justinh:

widely available, I mean

[09:42:32]

justinh:

I wouldn't want a HDD based player, not the way I drop things

[09:42:45]

Dagmar:

I could handle something like that

[09:42:57]

waxhead_:

What's a PAL CRT TV? 720*480?

[09:43:07]

Dagmar:

...but I think I've just about gotten the PlaysEverywhere thing with my PSP and PS3 working

[09:43:11]

Dagmar:

So, screw it.

[09:43:16]

justinh:

I wouldn't mind a sandisk thing but no idea how lame the controls are

[09:43:39]

justinh:

actually one with line input would be good for recording my sets

[09:43:41]

directhex:

waxhead_, PAL DVD is 720x576

[09:43:47]

Dagmar:

if I can actually play the stuff stored on my fileserver through the PS3, I should be able to get at it using the PSP from any wireless access point

[09:43:57]

directhex:

waxhead_, actual resolutions aren't quite the same thing though

[09:44:29]

waxhead_:

directhex: thanks.. just setting up my Nvidia settings to what's here: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/ComponentOut

[09:45:59]

Dagmar:

I'd leave out the NvAGP directive

[09:46:12]

Dagmar:

The nVidia driver generlaly does the right thing or you just won't get video at *all*

[09:47:25]

waxhead_:

I have to say that TV is OK, but the output doesn't "fit" on the screen at the moment...

[09:47:32]

Dagmar:

Ooo... I will leave a note to myself so that in the morning I will remember to make the powersave settings on the damn IDE disks all do the same thing

[09:47:54]

Dagmar:

waxhead: Generlaly you use nvidia-settings to set the overscan values

[09:48:15]

waxhead_:

oh... I think I saw that somewhere!

[09:48:43]

Dagmar:

poke around ont eh wiki and you can find a few images that are meant for themes, but can be used to just paint the bare X desktop with them as a background so you can set up overscan like the broadcasters expect it

[09:49:10]

justinh:

I use Test Card F – a widescreen version :)

[09:49:53]

waxhead_:

got a 68cm square flat screen CRT

[09:50:09]

waxhead_:

wide screen flat panel might be a christmas pressie.. :)

[09:50:24]

waxhead_:

right! Where the heck is nvidia-settings!

[09:50:55]

Dagmar:

justinh: You'd think someone would do something to redo the version of it they have on Wikipedia

[09:51:55]

Ace2016:

waxhead_: have you installed it?

[09:51:57]

justinh:

redo it?! non-believer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[09:52:02]

justinh:

crucify him!!!!!!!!!!

[09:52:18]

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[09:52:36]

Dagmar:

Yes. *REDO IT* as in regenerate the exact image using something like SVG and just paste the little girl into the middle

[09:52:47]

Dagmar:

The one they have up is all blurry

[09:53:13]

waxhead_:

Ace2016: have now

[09:53:14]

justinh:

I have a very good electronic copy I got from a guy at work. he used to be an IBA engineer

[09:53:14]

waxhead_:

thanks

[09:53:22]

Dagmar:

...to the point where I doubt it's contrast sections are even half useful

[09:53:24]

Dagmar:

Ah

[09:53:29]

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[09:54:06]

Dagmar:

Why not Test card J?

[09:54:15]

Dagmar:

http://www.meldrum.co.uk/mhp/testcard/bbc_test.html

[09:54:38]

Dagmar:

Same girl, in widescreen, with somewhat more useful test patterns and colors in it

[09:55:15]

justinh:

or W :)

[09:55:27]

quicksilver:

what is this stuff I read about 8-bit colours outside 15–230 making noise on NTSC TVs?

[09:55:35]

quicksilver:

I read it in the docs for some openGl library

[09:55:41]

Dagmar:

Yeah. It's very possible.

[09:55:53]

quicksilver:

how strange.

[09:55:56]

Dagmar:

Now, IN THEORY, the Nvidia driver is *supposed* to sort that when using s-video output, but clearly it doesn't.

[09:56:15]

quicksilver:

what's it all about? why does it happen?

[09:56:16]

Dagmar:

"Black" as you see it on the TV, is not actually #000000 like you'd expect, except in NTSC-J format

[09:56:21]

justinh:

quicksilver: it's true. quite easy to screw up a domestic video signal by putting out of gamut signals on there

[09:56:26]

Dagmar:

It's actually either 4 or 4.5 IRE

[09:56:41]

Dagmar:

...and you have to give the same margin on the white end as well.

[09:56:44]

quicksilver:

justinh: something similar true on PAL too?

[09:56:54]

Dagmar:

Violate either, and the signal basically strays into the place *audio* should go

[09:56:58]

justinh:

broadcasters usually (I say USUALLY) keep amplitudes within certain limits

[09:57:03]

Dagmar:

...the result is an annoying hum and weird image stretching

[09:57:22]

quicksilver:

so is this a problem in practice for mythv? I've never noticed a hum.

[09:57:29]

quicksilver:

aren't the white pixels on the menu 255,255,255 ?

[09:57:44]

Dagmar:

Yes. Dangerously so.

[09:57:59]

Dagmar:

If you fed that to an RF modulator like wot comes with a Nintendo, it would result in a screwball signal

[09:58:15]

justinh:

quicksilver: because modern TVs can generally deal with it just fine

[09:58:56]

Dagmar:

One of the "significant time sinks" on the LCARS theme was me researching all this stuff to hell and back and making "perfect" NTSC test screens and working out all the proper damn LCARS colors, adjusted to fit in the new ranges.

[09:59:16]

Dagmar:

Expect to spend an hour or two chasing that particular rabbit hole, just to find out WTF an IRE is

[09:59:22]

directhex:

Dagmar, who uses NES RF modulators these days?

[09:59:23]

** quicksilver nods **

[09:59:34]

Dagmar:

directhex: People who live in the 80's still

[09:59:35]

justinh:

directhex: you'd be surprised

[09:59:37]

quicksilver:

justinh: possibly my graphics card does something to deal with it too?

[09:59:49]

justinh:

people who still have 4:3 TVs, for one lot :P

[09:59:53]

justinh:

quicksilver: nope

[09:59:58]

Dagmar:

quicksilver: Just telling it you're using s-video out is *supposed* to limit it at both ends for you, but I've seen no sign that it's doing so

[10:00:11]

Dagmar:

it resulted in some wobblyness on my TV

[10:00:19]

justinh:

it'd be up to the tv encoder to do it, and I've never seen it done

[10:00:20]

** quicksilver nods **

[10:00:34]

Dagmar:

The docs *say* it does it, but it's apparently bullshit, at least for my 5200.

[10:00:48]

quicksilver:

I'm using an ATI card so it's a different driver + chipset

[10:00:48]

Dagmar:

I never tested the 6600

[10:01:01]

Dagmar:

Yeah, so, over s-video you'll be fine.

[10:01:11]

Dagmar:

Just don't expect to pass that thru a VCR and have the result be happy

[10:01:35]

quicksilver:

I also convert my s-video to compositve

[10:01:41]

quicksilver:

(stupid TV doesn't support composite)

[10:01:43]

Dagmar:

It'll only result in some minor distortion that you're not even likely to notice on the menus, and since you're not broadcasting the stuff into this narrow area of RF the audio and video won't tangle up

[10:01:49]

quicksilver:

so my signal is well and truly mangled beofre display

[10:01:50]

justinh:

I need to revisit the intel tv out code & get it in spec for PAL & NTSC properly

[10:02:06]

quicksilver:

(stupid TV doesn't support S-video, that should have been)

[10:02:25]

Dagmar:

Hehe then those 4 IRE are the least of your problems then

[10:04:07]

justinh:

convert svideo to composite with one of those nasty little capacitive summers eh? blech

[10:05:11]

quicksilver:

justinh: fraid so.

[10:05:22]

quicksilver:

justinh: but my TV is nice old blurry CRT so it probably doesn't make much odds :)

[10:06:07]

justinh:

my telly is one of the rare ones with svideo inputs which actually keeps the Y & C separate

[10:06:16]

waxhead_:

SWEET!!!

[10:06:23]

justinh:

difference in quality between svideo & RGB is minimal :)

[10:06:24]

waxhead_:

that screen setup is tops...

[10:06:33]

waxhead_:

fixed the screen size... things fit much better..

[10:10:04]

quicksilver:

justinh: One day I'll get an HDTV. Then I'll complain about all the compression artefacts which are so subtle on a blurry CRT and so blaringly visible on a sharp high res screen :)

[10:10:19]

quicksilver:

there is somethign to be said for crappy displays

[10:10:24]

quicksilver:

hide a multitude of sins.

[10:11:02]

justinh:

CRT != crappy

[10:11:27]

justinh:

look at all the unrealistically garish LCD junk out there

[10:11:52]

justinh:

colours so bright they eat your eyes. real life doesn't look like that unless you do drugs

[10:11:54]

quicksilver:

justinh: (my CRT) = crappy ;)

[10:12:06]

quicksilver:

well it's not that bad.

[10:12:13]

quicksilver:

but it's distinctly soft and blurry.

[10:12:27]

quicksilver:

it does hide mpeg rectangles nicely

[10:12:39]

justinh:

CRTs DO smooth out mpeg artifacts better than flat panels though

[10:13:06]

justinh:

but then, so can a decent deblocker ;)

[10:13:21]

** quicksilver nods **

[10:13:45]

justinh:

does myth have a deblocker?

[10:14:28]

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[10:22:24]

justinh:

no, would be the answer to that question then

[10:23:19]

waxhead_:

time for some bling!

[10:24:25]

waxhead_:

oh.. there's a catlyst control for the ATI chipset!

[10:24:37]

waxhead_:

that might have helped last night when it was in the box...

[10:24:54]

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[10:48:53]

justinh:

hmmm my credit card is burning a hole in my pocket. I want to buy a new cd player

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[11:00:46]

directhex:

justinh, http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_pag . . . ategory_oid=

[11:00:50]

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[11:00:51]

directhex:

job jobbed

[11:02:01]

Dibblah:

Ah, Matsui. The epitome of style and finesse.

[11:02:55]

justinh:

roflmao

[11:03:37]

Dibblah:

See – Another Matsui fan.

[11:04:56]

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[11:06:41]

justinh:

ooo can you lift up the cd lid & do wicky wicky with the disc? :D

[11:07:14]

waxhead_:

I have an interesting thing with the video out...

[11:07:23]

waxhead_:

even for VOBs ...

[11:07:43]

waxhead_:

the black background has little white dots through it, like there's interference

[11:15:00]

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[11:16:38]

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[11:17:14]

Esotericisms:

I have been playing with the VideoPlayback sql entry trying to get my audio working

[11:17:33]

Esotericisms:

but I just realized that it isn't using the new entries I put in for testing

[11:17:44]

Esotericisms:

it has the old one (like its cached), how can I fix this?

[11:18:05]

directhex:

by not mangling the sql directly

[11:20:12]

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[11:22:00]

Esotericisms:

directhex: that sucks, I am trying to figure out what the right -ao for mplayer is for my audio to work :?

[11:22:02]

Esotericisms:

:/

[11:23:34]

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[11:23:41]

directhex:

sdl:alsa

[11:25:04]

Esotericisms:

sdl:alsa?

[11:25:07]

Esotericisms:

I am using spdif

[11:25:22]

Esotericisms:

nothing I have tried has work, and I must run now

[11:25:32]

Esotericisms:

I will come back in a little while for more advice

[11:25:34]

Esotericisms:

thansk

[11:25:40]

justinh:

advice? use Internal

[11:26:15]

justinh:

muhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh but internal doesn't play my retarded borderline illegal fansubs!

[11:26:38]

directhex:

moooo

[11:27:17]

dramman:

I'm trying to configure mythtv to play audio using my motherboard's Realtek ALC662. It works directly through mplayer with "Device: plug=surround51" but when I try to play the same DVD in mythtv there's no audio at all.

[11:28:34]

directhex:

which player app have you told myth to use for dvds?

[11:30:42]

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[11:32:10]

Ace2016:

Can mythtv be installed to a hard disk?

[11:32:11]

Ace2016:

and

[11:32:22]

Ace2016:

hard drives mounted to /storage/disk-1,2,3...

[11:32:23]

Ace2016:

?

[11:32:35]

Ace2016:

so the drives can go to sleep if they want

[11:32:36]

Dagmar:

Why couldn't it be?

[11:32:59]

Ace2016:

well i need an installer

[11:33:01]

Dagmar:

You're the admin

[11:33:05]

Dagmar:

Set it up like you want it.

[11:33:19]

Ace2016:

is there an install disk that will install to a pen drive?

[11:33:56]

justinh:

a USB disk is just a disk

[11:33:57]

justinh:

ffs

[11:34:09]

Ace2016:

oh, so it will show up in the installer?

[11:34:11]

Puh_:

i recently installed mythbuntu to an usb flash stick

[11:34:30]

Ace2016:

Puh_: is that a thin client?

[11:34:33]

Puh_:

data goes to a sata hard drive

[11:34:39]

Puh_:

works like crime

[11:34:41]

justinh:

though you sometimes have to mes about with the bootloader to make it mount a usb device

[11:34:44]

Ace2016:

i want to install the main system onto a flash drive

[11:34:53]

directhex:

so do it

[11:34:54]

justinh:

why?

[11:34:56]

Dagmar:

justinh: I don't think he knows what "bootloader" means

[11:35:17]

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[11:35:19]

Ace2016:

so the hard disks can sleep

[11:35:27]

Ace2016:

and because usb flash disks are more reliable

[11:35:33]

Dagmar:

ace: Dude, go google "MythBuntu" already

[11:35:37]

Puh_:

my disks go to sleep after 30 minutes idle

[11:35:43]

Dagmar:

It's not our job to teach you all there is to know about Linux.

[11:35:45]

Dagmar:

That's lame.

[11:35:53]

justinh:

HDDs aren't exactly unreliable if you treat them right

[11:36:33]

Puh_:

my data goes on a raid mirror

[11:37:07]

directhex:

justinh, we get lots failed disks

[11:37:10]

directhex:

justinh, bloody hitachi

[11:37:14]

justinh:

heh

[11:37:37]

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[11:40:14]

Ace2016:

i found a 16GB flash disk on ebay

[11:42:26]

Dagmar:

"usb flash disks are more reliable" <-- If you believe this, it's probably time to put away the bong.

[11:42:45]

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[11:42:55]

** directhex writes to Dagmar a finite number of times **

[11:43:03]

Dagmar:

They have a *much* shorter lifespan than magnetic storage by the number of writes they'll take.

[11:43:08]

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[11:43:25]

Ace2016:

wait since when?

[11:43:36]

Dagmar:

Since, um, effectively forever.

[11:43:39]

Ace2016:

oh well, at lest its quiet

[11:44:55]

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[11:47:16]

dramman:

Ah – Default DVD player command is "Internal", so it's not using mplayer. Still doesn't explain why audio is not working

[11:48:37]

Dagmar:

You don't have support for the codec the audio on the DVD uses

[11:50:19]

dramman:

mplayer does

[11:51:02]

dramman:

what's "passthrough output device"?

[11:51:54]

directhex:

for using SPDIF

[11:53:12]

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[11:54:12]

dramman:

If I'm not using SPDIF is "Default" ok?

[12:06:59]

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[12:19:07]

Dibblah:

USB flash drives are perfectly reliable.

[12:19:18]

Dibblah:

You just need to set your expectations right :)

[12:19:23]

Dagmar:

hah

[12:19:45]

Dibblah:

ie use it as primarily a read-only medium.

[12:20:24]

Dibblah:

Still considering raid10ing a bunch of them for the Myth DB :)

[12:20:40]

Dagmar:

Considering that a 16Gb thumb drive costs about as much as a 250Gb drive SATA disk, seems like insanity to me

[12:20:53]

Dibblah:

Seek times are very important.

[12:21:18]

Dagmar:

For reading long, sequential areas of disk?

[12:21:50]

Dagmar:

Dibblah: Just you wait until you try to buy another machine

[12:21:56]

Dibblah:

... My scheduler run still takes 20s.

[12:22:11]

Dagmar:

Seems like no one wants to make anything less than a 512Mb stick of PC 6400.

[12:22:23]

Dagmar:

So, I'm putting a Gb of RAM in the frontend.

[12:22:47]

Dibblah:

Of course, that's partially because the scheduler has no concept of 'never going to impinge on the schedule' programs.

[12:22:57]

Dagmar:

I might as well put the MySQL server on it as well

[12:23:29]

Dagmar:

'cuz that's gonna be at least 512Mb of RAM for MySQL to screw around in.

[12:23:35]

Dagmar:

Should be enough for me. Heh

[12:24:11]

Dibblah:

Depends on the working set of your mysql instance's tables.

[12:24:25]

Dagmar:

That's about twice as large as the tables have gotten

[12:24:26]

Dibblah:

For me, I have waaay too many channels in there.

[12:24:36]

Dibblah:

Working set != table size.

[12:24:46]

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[12:24:57]

Dibblah:

There are in-memory indices and other stuff.

[12:25:05]

Dibblah:

Primarily caching, though.

[12:25:09]

Dagmar:

With a dual core 4600, I don't think it's going to be a big problem

[12:25:34]

justinh:

on a via epia m10k.. meh

[12:25:43]

Dibblah:

I have it running on a dual core 4000+, with 4Gb RAM.

[12:25:54]

Dibblah:

It's still disk bound for me.

[12:26:19]

Dibblah:

Scheduled items: Scheduled 1189 items in 20.3 = 10.00 match + 10.31 place

[12:26:35]

justinh:

who was it round here that used a tranquil pc again?

[12:26:51]

justinh:

it worked fine except when the scheduler ran...

[12:26:52]

XLV:

Dibblah, why not a ssd?

[12:27:16]

Dibblah:

justinh: Did I say that I found the i945gmm-hl takes 3Gb RAM?

[12:27:23]

Dibblah:

XLV: Price.

[12:27:28]

Dibblah:

And performance.

[12:27:50]

justinh:

Dibblah: no, but I can't say I'd be bothering to try ;)

[12:28:01]

Dibblah:

RAID10ing a bunch of flash drives on different USB busses gives me 80Mbytes / sec with the right drives.

[12:28:04]

justinh:

though, maybe if I get one for my desktop machine :)

[12:28:10]

Dibblah:

With no seek times.

[12:28:43]

XLV:

some 2GB kingston i picked up for 5 euro each do 13MB/s read, 7MB/s write

[12:28:57]

waxhead_:

oooo XvMC.. something else to check into

[12:29:00]

XLV:

but still a 16GB ssd is 80$

[12:29:01]

Dibblah:

XLV: Ick.

[12:29:18]

Dibblah:

Look at the rally2.

[12:29:20]

XLV:

prices do get insane for larger

[12:29:45]

Dibblah:

35MB/s (read), 30MB/s (write)

[12:29:48]

XLV:

Dibblah, i didnt want something extremely fast, just cheap, to use them as boot media instead of floppies.. thats why i got 3

[12:30:01]

XLV:

i know faster exist

[12:30:18]

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[12:30:44]

XLV:

but arent SSD latencies slow as usb sticks? iirc they are

[12:30:59]

XLV:

s/slow/as low

[12:32:00]

XLV:

more than 3 different usb controllers on one mb, i dont think any mb has them.. you'd need a separate usb2 card

[12:33:48]

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[13:18:23]

waxhead_:

how do i get the tv grabber in mythsetup?

[13:19:36]

waxhead_:

fsck!!!

[13:19:42]

waxhead_:

can't spell!

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[14:02:20]

a1fa:

heh

[14:02:28]

a1fa:

damn.. :) schedules direct.. $20/year

[14:02:41]

a1fa:

i whish it was more accurate

[14:03:11]

a1fa:

my mytthv has been re-recording many shows I previously watched because the "origional air-date" is set to "today"

[14:03:28]

GreyFoxx:

Can't say I've run into that

[14:03:33]

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[14:03:40]

a1fa:

its mostly on cartoon network

[14:03:46]

a1fa:

couple of more channels

[14:03:48]

GreyFoxx:

You can blame Cartoon network

[14:04:00]

GreyFoxx:

they provide the original airdates to TMS

[14:04:06]

GreyFoxx:

which is where your data is coming from

[14:04:59]

a1fa:

hm

[14:05:38]

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[14:05:44]

a1fa:

fuckers :(\

[14:06:00]

GreyFoxx:

they probably want people rerecording their stuff

[14:06:06]

GreyFoxx:

more chance of commercial watching :)

[14:06:12]

a1fa:

hm

[14:06:19]

a1fa:

did you see what PBS is doing now?

[14:06:34]

a1fa:

fuckers pause your tv show and insert an ad over it

[14:06:39]

a1fa:

and then they unpause it

[14:06:43]

a1fa:

wtf

[14:07:07]

GreyFoxx:

I record a lot of PBS, but haven't run into that yet :)

[14:07:26]

GreyFoxx:

that would be annoying

[14:07:27]

a1fa:

or its TBS

[14:07:32]

a1fa:

i think its TBS

[14:07:34]

a1fa:

not PBS

[14:07:36]

GreyFoxx:

ahh I never record from there

[14:07:50]

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[14:08:22]

a1fa:

its on youtube

[14:08:31]

a1fa:

search "TBS pause advertisments"

[14:08:37]

waxhead_:

well a productive night.. EPG is working now too..

[14:08:37]

a1fa:

what a bullshit

[14:08:59]

waxhead_:

some minor glitches with the display though.. but that's OK... will work on that some other time

[14:09:00]

|Torg|:

I reoced planty of PBS, the only thing that annoys me is the 5 mins of sponsor leadins, I just skip past it

[14:09:03]

waxhead_:

ngiht all

[14:09:09]

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[14:09:26]

a1fa:

heheh

[14:09:29]

a1fa:

my #1 recorded show

[14:09:32]

a1fa:

"MODERN MARVELS"

[14:09:33]

a1fa:

FTW!

[14:09:45]

|Torg|:

ahh TSB not PBS

[14:09:50]

|Torg|:

err TBS

[14:09:56]

a1fa:

#2.. how its made.. #3 Family Guy, #4 Third Watch, #5 MythBusters

[14:10:03]

a1fa:

<a1fa> search "TBS pause advertisments"

[14:10:15]

a1fa:

<a1fa> search "TBS pause advertisments"

[14:10:17]

a1fa:

hehe

[14:10:29]

|Torg|:

<a1fa> did you see what PBS is doing now?

[14:10:33]

a1fa:

yes

[14:10:39]

a1fa:

and read below

[14:10:49]

a1fa:

<a1fa> i think its TBS

[14:10:49]

a1fa:

<a1fa> not PBS

[14:11:03]

a1fa:

<a1fa> i think its TBS

[14:11:03]

a1fa:

<a1fa> not PBS

[14:11:05]

Dibblah:

Really – Who cares?

[14:11:07]

a1fa:

damn

[14:11:10]

a1fa:

i hate synergy

[14:11:20]

Dibblah:

It's just another ad break format.

[14:11:27]

a1fa:

fuckers

[14:11:34]

Dibblah:

You're not "losing" anything extra.

[14:11:48]

a1fa:

tgfff

[14:11:55]

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[14:11:56]

a1fa:

thanks god for fast forward

[14:11:59]

Dibblah:

tits go first first first?

[14:12:36]

a1fa:

i dont know if i should soup my mythtv box.. or get another motherboard with quad-core AMD

[14:12:48]

a1fa:

i am thorn.. $40 upgrade vs. $400 upgrade

[14:13:07]

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[14:13:10]

a1fa:

AMD64 4000+ vs. buying a new mobo and a new cpu

[14:13:21]

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[14:13:27]

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[14:14:00]

directhex:

why would yuo buy amd if buying new?

[14:14:20]

a1fa:

directhex : what do you mean?

[14:14:50]

directhex:

you were talking about buying a quad core AMD. why would you do that?

[14:14:54]

hatchmt:

AMD is significantly more affordable than Intel

[14:15:14]

a1fa:

why not :)

[14:15:18]

Dibblah:

http://pendor.org/shared/veggie5.jpg

[14:15:23]

Dibblah:

Argh. Wrong channel.

[14:15:27]

a1fa:

hehe

[14:15:30]

a1fa:

veggie pr0n

[14:16:20]

directhex:

hatchmt, but significantly slower per-watt, per-pound, and per-clock

[14:16:42]

a1fa:

either way

[14:16:44]

a1fa:

i like AMD

[14:16:53]

Dibblah:

Not veggie porn.

[14:16:54]

a1fa:

i've only had one intel in my life

[14:16:59]

Dibblah:

Just DIY disasters :)

[14:17:14]

|Torg|:

Dibblah: that your garden?

[14:17:19]

Dibblah:

Yeah.

[14:17:41]

|Torg|:

I use old rail road ties myself, but this is way off topic

[14:17:49]

a1fa:

wow

[14:17:52]

a1fa:

nice garden

[14:17:59]

** directhex has no garden \o/ **

[14:18:07]

Dibblah:

Just a tad off-topic.

[14:18:13]

Dibblah:

Apologies :)

[14:18:23]

|Torg|:

no Im the one who asked :)

[14:18:34]

EvilGuru:

Dibblah: Unless someone needs help/support off-topic discussion seems to be condoned

[14:18:47]

directhex:

EvilGuru, overlooked more than condoned

[14:18:58]

a1fa:

http://pendor.org/shared/veggie5.jpg

[14:19:00]

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[14:19:03]

a1fa:

again

[14:19:07]

a1fa:

fuck synergy

[14:19:32]

a1fa:

model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+

[14:19:35]

a1fa:

there we go

[14:19:39]

Dibblah:

synergy is OK. You just need to learn what the different clipboard links are.

[14:19:48]

a1fa:

what do you mean?

[14:20:07]

Dibblah:

X has more than one clipboard.

[14:20:20]

a1fa:

i cant find a >4000+ cpu in 939 socket

[14:20:25]

Dibblah:

Windows doesn't. Mapping between them is difficult.

[14:20:26]

a1fa:

which is depressing

[14:20:35]

EvilGuru:

a1fa: fleabay

[14:20:54]

a1fa:

whats the fastest they made them?

[14:21:01]

Dibblah:

Whoever that is, you can stop looking for da porn. There isn't any.

[14:21:11]

EvilGuru:

4800+ X2

[14:21:16]

|Torg|:

Dibblah: was it you that was saying somehting about the memory usage of a 2.4GHZ vs 2.5GHZ processor?

[14:21:18]

a1fa:

not in X2 socket

[14:21:19]

a1fa:

939

[14:21:21]

directhex:

a1fa, socket 939 topped out with the fx55 in single core

[14:21:39]

Dibblah:

... Memory usage of a processor? How do you mean?

[14:21:51]

EvilGuru:

A2 is 939

[14:21:54]

EvilGuru:

*X2

[14:22:06]

justinh:

off topic frowning should be a murderable offence

[14:22:10]

|Torg|:

someone was saying that the 2.4ghz was actualy faster then a 2.5 becae of L2 cache usage

[14:22:11]

a1fa:

hm.. i dont know if my motherboard supports x2

[14:22:18]

directhex:

in dual core, it went up to 4800+

[14:22:22]

Dibblah:

Not me.

[14:22:22]

|Torg|:

Ive been looking for some refernces to that but have come up with nothing

[14:22:55]

a1fa:

anyway to get motherboard info through console?

[14:22:55]

directhex:

|Torg|, the whole AMD approach to model numbers was odd really

[14:23:06]

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[14:23:08]

directhex:

yeah, but not "your board supports x2 chips"

[14:23:13]

|Torg|:

yes directhex I think they use a dart board myself

[14:23:17]

directhex:

in theory, all 939 boards do, possibly with a ios updater

[14:23:18]

a1fa:

i will go look it up against mfg

[14:23:20]

a1fa:

i just need model #

[14:23:25]

a1fa:

mythtv box is at home

[14:23:37]

EvilGuru:

It did make sense — 4800 = 4.8x faster than a 1Ghz T-bird, although if it was accurate...

[14:24:18]

quicksilver:

they've more or less stopped making 939 X2s

[14:24:22]

quicksilver:

I can't find any for sale in the UK

[14:24:33]

Dibblah:

70.136.110.69 – Really, trust me – There's nothing interesting in there.

[14:24:37]

quicksilver:

mildly annoying, I was hoping to buy one when they were cheap but before they stopped.

[14:24:37]

a1fa:

directhex

[14:24:49]

Dibblah:

It's just a dumping ground for stuff.

[14:24:50]

quicksilver:

I got my timing wrong.

[14:25:00]

EvilGuru:

quicksilver: second hand?

[14:26:27]

Dibblah:

Okay. #diydisasters created. Come across if you're interested.

[14:27:11]

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[14:27:39]

a1fa:

EvilGuru AM2 != 939

[14:28:05]

EvilGuru:

a1fa: Can still get a 4800+ X2 second hand, which is 939

[14:28:18]

a1fa:

ah

[14:28:22]

quicksilver:

EvilGuru: thought about it, convinced myself that I don't really need one.

[14:28:25]

quicksilver:

;)

[14:28:41]

a1fa:

EvilGuru : it costs more than 6000+ X2 AM2

[14:28:44]

a1fa:

:P

[14:28:52]

a1fa:

i'd rather upgrade everything at that point

[14:29:08]

a1fa:

4800+ in 939 variant — $250

[14:29:46]

EvilGuru:

How can someone expect someone else to pay that

[14:30:02]

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[14:30:10]

a1fa:

i dont know

[14:30:14]

a1fa:

for 2nd hand

[14:30:17]

a1fa:

fu that

[14:30:35]

EvilGuru:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AMD-Athlon-64-X2-4800-R . . . cmdZViewItem

[14:30:56]

EvilGuru:

If it goes for £20 that is £25 total == $50

[14:31:30]

EvilGuru:

no wait, that is AM2, sorry

[14:31:49]

a1fa:

ya

[14:31:50]

a1fa:

:P

[14:31:57]

a1fa:

i'll just spec out a new motherboard

[14:32:09]

a1fa:

and buy AM2 cpu

[14:32:13]

a1fa:

and be done with it :)

[14:37:00]

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[14:43:34]

** Kelerion cries **

[14:43:45]

Kelerion:

I just spent an hour building a kernel on the wrong machine

[14:45:54]

justinh:

murhahahahaha ;)

[14:46:03]

|Torg|:

good practice

[14:46:03]

Lynet:

You don't have the computer name in the shell prompt?

[14:46:36]

Lynet:

You're halfway there, though. Just copy the .config over. ;-p

[14:46:39]

justinh:

since when did building a kernel take that long anyway?

[14:46:55]

Lynet:

Must be gentoo.

[14:47:10]

Kelerion:

of course I the host name in the prompt... I just wasn't taking notice

[14:47:16]

Kelerion:

not gentoo

[14:47:26]

justinh:

think my 800 smegahurts athlon would take less time than that but it pales into insignificance when you've a world to emerge :P

[14:48:09]

Kelerion:

and can't copy the config over...radically different architecture

[14:48:50]

Kelerion:

its ok... will just watch another program while its doing it again

[14:48:58]

justinh:

GO TRISHA!

[14:49:40]

EvilGuru:

Jeremy Kyle FTW!

[14:49:50]

justinh:

oh wow this new dvr has stayed up for almost an hour before rebooting. is this progress? hell yes it is!

[14:49:53]

** Kelerion shivers **

[14:51:53]

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[14:52:13]

Lynet:

Would that be the haupcanneverspellthatnamecorrectly hd-dvr?

[14:52:48]

justinh:

I saw 5 minutes of jezza once. made me think just execute every mother****ing last one of them

[14:53:08]

justinh:

Lynet: no

[14:53:14]

justinh:

and it's HD-PVR

[14:53:47]

EvilGuru:

justinh: Fantastic, lowbrow television

[14:53:53]

justinh:

no, the product I was bad-mouthing was a prototype dvr with 32 inputs

[14:54:18]

justinh:

EvilGuru: for me, less "unplug brain", more "unplug TV"

[14:54:51]

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[14:56:08]

GreyFoxx:

justin: Security cam dvr I assume ? :)

[14:56:29]

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[15:00:30]

matthijs_:

hi, how can i improve the tv + sound quality? i'm also hearing noise sometimes

[15:00:39]

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[15:00:49]

matthijs_:

now i dont hear any sound at all...

[15:00:51]

|Torg|:

matthijs_: cleaner inputs

[15:01:35]

matthijs_:

i have a cinergy 400 capture card, and i've been on the mythtv wiki

[15:02:02]

matthijs_:

i can test my tv settings there, and i hear suond

[15:02:12]

matthijs_:

but in "Watch TV" i dont hear sound

[15:02:21]

matthijs_:

and mute is off

[15:03:20]

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[15:03:34]

Lynet:

Did it work fine earlier or have you always had the problem? Done any changes?

[15:03:41]

AndyCap:

matthijs_: maybe it's muted in v4l?

[15:03:43]

matthijs_:

it worked before

[15:04:02]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, could be, idont know what that is

[15:04:10]

justinh:

GreyFoxx: yup

[15:04:33]

Lynet:

matthijs_: Done any changes?

[15:04:38]

matthijs_:

Lynet, i did try to inprove the quality of the video but now i dont hear suond

[15:04:48]

AndyCap:

matthijs_: are you using the saa7134-alsa module?

[15:04:57]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, i think so

[15:05:10]

justinh:

arghhh fucking useless shitstabbing ... gave me a dome camera to upgrade. yay 5 minute job. If they'd left the screw terminal connector on the camera

[15:05:24]

AndyCap:

matthijs_: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Terratec_Cinergy_400

[15:05:24]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, because i used that command to view TV in mplayer (with the terminal) and then the sound works

[15:05:33]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, yes ive been there

[15:05:55]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, those commands for "No sound at all" dont work

[15:05:55]

AndyCap:

matthijs_: this is the one I'm thinking of "v4lctl volume mute off"

[15:06:12]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, wait ill tell u what it says if i try that

[15:06:48]

matthijs_:

The program 'v4lctl' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:

[15:06:49]

matthijs_:

sudo apt-get install xawtv

[15:06:49]

matthijs_:

bash: v4lctl: command not found

[15:07:05]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, pretty weird..

[15:07:33]

AndyCap:

oh, some ubuntu crap

[15:07:44]

justinh:

remove framegrabber support altogether :)

[15:07:49]

AndyCap:

well, you should read what it tells you.

[15:08:06]

AndyCap:

justinh: hehe, you think that would help on the questions in here?

[15:08:29]

matthijs_:

justinh, what do u mean, were u talking to me?

[15:08:32]

justinh:

AndyCap: no, but it'd be entertaining for a while

[15:08:43]

AndyCap:

justinh: 2 years from now people come in here asking about their mythtv 0.20 not working. :)

[15:08:51]

matthijs_:

AndyCap, so shuold i install that xawvtv?

[15:09:04]

AndyCap:

matthijs_: if you want that tool it seems to tell you that yes

[15:09:11]

matthijs_:

k ill try

[15:09:15]

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[15:09:19]

quicksilver:

my mythtv 0.85 isn't working right, the holographic projections are washed out and bluish as seen from above

[15:09:20]

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[15:09:42]

AndyCap:

quicksilver: your projector is broken. replicate a new one.

[15:09:55]

AndyCap:

quicksilver: or get a real holodeck

[15:10:08]

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[15:10:47]

|Torg|:

the real holodeks are too expensive, ebay has thatm for $250

[15:11:09]

matthijs_:

is it ok to use the update manager, to update ur system? because im using mythbuntu 8.04 and it says i have 111 updates...

[15:11:27]

|Torg|:

matthijs_: is your box not working?

[15:11:38]

directhex:

matthijs_, of course it's fine. that's why it exists

[15:11:45]

justinh:

oh well. no connectors, no upgrade. swivel!

[15:11:50]

matthijs_:

|Torg|, it works yes.

[15:12:03]

|Torg|:

then is there some reason you want to update it?

[15:12:06]

matthijs_:

directhex, ye but 111 updates when version 8.04 is the latest? wtf

[15:12:13]

directhex:

matthijs_, unless you've done something silly like compiled your own apps into /usr, then the entire pupose of the update manager is to manage updates

[15:12:24]

matthijs_:

directhex, ok thanks

[15:12:27]

justinh:

|Torg|: why of course! it's working, so therefor has to be upgraded to make it un-working again

[15:12:41]

matthijs_:

justinh, lol

[15:13:02]

directhex:

matthijs_, an average system may have about 2000 packages on it. 2 months of security updates etc to those 2000, updating 5% of the system sounds reasonable to me

[15:13:10]

justinh:

"help! my system was working great, then I upgraded stuff, and now it's broken"

[15:13:20]

justinh:

"so uhh, why did you upgrade stuff?"

[15:13:24]

matthijs_:

directhex, thanks

[15:13:29]

justinh:

"I don't know, I just figured I should"

[15:13:30]

directhex:

justinh, update != upgrade

[15:13:39]

justinh:

same diff

[15:13:44]

|Torg|:

your running an application platform, that platform is some flavor of linux. Your goal is to keep mythtv working. View your linux as a vehicle for yotu myth and it will be allot more stable

[15:13:50]

AndyCap:

directhex: hopefully the packagers agree. :)

[15:14:03]

directhex:

AndyCap, other than mad upstream (e.g. mozilla) they do

[15:14:19]

justinh:

hopefully new packages won't overwrite your config files n stuff

[15:14:42]

justinh:

gentoo was a twat for doing that

[15:14:43]

quicksilver:

Yes. I would never upgrade the packages under a working myth install without a specific reason.

[15:14:45]

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[15:14:53]

quicksilver:

One such reason might be security.

[15:15:04]

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[15:15:05]

matthijs_:

brb

[15:15:08]

quicksilver:

But I'd rather have the myth installed insulated from the net so its security was a non-issue.

[15:15:10]

directhex:

justinh, debconf will always ask you whether it has permission to overwrite a config file with an updated version, with defaulting to "no"

[15:15:11]

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[15:15:24]

justinh:

not only overwriting config files, but changing the bloody syntax. grrr

[15:15:56]

directhex:

where syntax changes violently, generally a package gets disabled via /etc/default or similar, until you've manually checked the config file & marked it as okay

[15:16:00]

justinh:

well, my un-updated dapper box is still fine

[15:16:20]

directhex:

which can break things like md, on reflection

[15:17:52]

quicksilver:

I still say, treat your myth box like an appliance, don't upgrade it.

[15:18:08]

quicksilver:

if you have to upgrade it, put aside enough time to fix hte problems which occur in a relaxed way

[15:18:13]

AndyCap:

at least if you can't fix it on your own. :)

[15:18:32]

justinh:

no no no no no no no! upgrades should be as frequent and as annoying to your family as possible. you just don't get it!

[15:18:38]

quicksilver:

and make sure you test everything

[15:18:38]

directhex:

i say "if it has internet access, then update it"

[15:18:38]

directhex:

not every distro subscribes to the NEW = BETTAR solution to bugs & issues

[15:19:03]

quicksilver:

something like debian security updates is a fairly safe kind of upgrade, on the grand spectrum of such things

[15:19:04]

justinh:

you have to make mythtv live up to the myth that you need to sit next to it 24/7 to keep[ it going

[15:19:15]

quicksilver:

but definitely don't do anything like tracking testing/universe/unstable

[15:19:24]

PatrickDK:

heh

[15:19:24]

directhex:

quicksilver, no, because then you'd be a fucking moron

[15:19:26]

** AndyCap doesn't need WAF. **

[15:19:36]

PatrickDK:

I want to see mythtv in rhel :)

[15:19:50]

sid3windr:

fo'rhel!

[15:20:02]

justinh:

unplug brain. insert RHEL

[15:20:03]

directhex:

quicksilver, and in the stated case of ubuntu stable, then the updates complained about are kernel stability fixes, assorted security fixes to frameworks like gtk, bug fixes to "desktop" apps

[15:20:07]

AndyCap:

PatrickDK: two words, patent infringement. :)

[15:20:35]

PatrickDK:

dunno, I have never been happy with redhat, fedora, ...

[15:20:53]

PatrickDK:

but using rhel in commercial setting is kind of nice, for upgrades

[15:20:58]

PatrickDK:

vs the hell I have had with ubuntu

[15:21:18]

PatrickDK:

but I was seriously joking about myth :)

[15:21:21]

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[15:21:46]

AndyCap:

PatrickDK: well, axel makes packages for RHEL, and I think he's still the only game in town for Fedora packages

[15:21:48]

directhex:

Myth on Centos. because picking a pretend version of your pointy haired boss' choice for distro makes perfect sense in the living room!

[15:22:32]

PatrickDK:

I will never understand why anyone would use centos

[15:22:50]

directhex:

PatrickDK, it's (pretend) Enterprise Ready(tm)!

[15:23:16]

justinh:

argghhh fucking idiot! I told him, no connectors, no upgrade!!!!! so he told my boss & he came looking for me. explained no connector no upgrade situation, all is well. apart from now I want to hurt the c*** who wants the upgrade

[15:23:53]

directhex:

ever considered stress management classes?

[15:24:10]

justinh:

classes for that?

[15:24:11]

AndyCap:

haha, that's a load of crap.

[15:24:16]

justinh:

venting is good :)

[15:24:56]

AndyCap:

stress management class -> bottling it up -> going postal.

[15:24:58]

justinh:

trying to adopt an attitude of 'no, I really couldn't give a shit if I tried' but it's not working

[15:25:01]

|Torg|:

centros rocks :)

[15:25:39]

directhex:

RHEL is the distro your boss tells you to run because he read about it in "practical management" magazine, and you go ahead and install debian behind his back to get some actual work done

[15:25:50]

justinh:

when you spend all day trying to configure one lame ass dvr machine, following the script from the one you just got working but this one isn't playing ball, it kind of wears your patience down

[15:25:52]

directhex:

CentOS is pretend RHEL without the gimps on the phone you can moan at when it sucks

[15:26:18]

directhex:

yet it's still better than SLES \o/

[15:32:51]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, Having had a Red Hat support contract a few jobs ago, those gimps are 100% useless

[15:33:14]

directhex:

iamlindoro_, i never said they weren't :)

[15:33:17]

iamlindoro_:

hehe

[15:33:21]

directhex:

iamlindoro_, but they exist, which is enough for PHB

[15:33:35]

iamlindoro_:

Yeah

[15:33:58]

justinh:

it's gotta be better than working here

[15:34:56]

iamlindoro_:

But then, so is wrestling crocodiles

[15:35:21]

justinh:

I wouldn't go that far

[15:35:38]

iamlindoro_:

Ah, so you *do* have limits

[15:36:29]

gbee:

I shouldn't have cancelled my Nova-HD-S2 order, prices have shot up since then :(

[15:36:47]

iamlindoro_:

Work ordered me a Macbook Air, this will be the first laptop I might actually carry around

[15:37:01]

gbee:

too big

[15:37:29]

iamlindoro_:

gbee, all a matter of perspective, I guess-- small to me :)

[15:37:30]

justinh:

and all the ladies will say they like that big powder compact you have in your handbag

[15:37:52]

** iamlindoro_ wonders how justinh knows about his purse **

[15:38:14]

justinh:

all macbook owners have man bags & purses

[15:38:16]

justinh:

jesus

[15:39:10]

gbee:

iamlindoro_: thin yes, but no really compact in the dimensions that actually matter to me – I wonder how quickly it would get broken because you've stacked your bags in the wrong order in the boot or on a train etc

[15:39:48]

iamlindoro_:

gbee, from the experience of my friends, it's apparently a good deal sturdier than you expect it to be, FWIW

[15:39:55]

justinh:

gbee: you mean you wouldn't use a laptop while driving? :-O

[15:40:18]

gbee:

;)

[15:40:18]

iamlindoro_:

here in California every second driver is iPhone web surfing

[15:40:24]

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[15:40:38]

justinh:

I've seen that. there are the map readers, makeup appliers, shavers.. and now laptop users

[15:40:41]

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[15:40:51]

matthijs_:

my sound still doesn't work. any suggestions?

[15:40:56]

iamlindoro_:

fix it!

[15:41:03]

justinh:

in a 2 hour tailback I could understand it. not at 70mph +

[15:41:07]

matthijs_:

it does work when i use MPlayer

[15:41:13]

iamlindoro_:

There, now your question and my answer are equally uninformative

[15:41:27]

justinh:

enable subtitles. problem solved

[15:41:46]

gbee:

I think I've said a few times now that as far as ultra-portables go, I'd pick something smaller in height/width and more robust like an Aspire One

[15:42:07]

gbee:

whenever they actually appear in the shops :(

[15:42:36]

justinh:

ahh to have such money to fritter away ...

[15:42:40]

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[15:42:58]

AndyCap:

And get one of these http://www.bookofjoe.com/2007/08/steering-wheel-.html

[15:43:33]

gbee:

my requirements are probably pretty different from yours though, I want something I can literally throw into a rucksack instead of carrying an extra laptop bag as I do now

[15:44:08]

justinh:

AndyCap: omfg

[15:44:27]

gbee:

justinh: well having just looked at my accounts I'm not so sure I do have that money ;) Been an expensive couple of months

[15:45:48]

justinh:

I need to look into whether I can claim my travelling to work on friday is tax deductable or not

[15:46:01]

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[15:46:03]

Ace2016:

hi all

[15:46:28]

Ace2016:

can someone point me to a theme that uses a custom menu or tell me what the custom menu file is within the theme

[15:46:59]

justinh:

eh?

[15:47:01]

gbee:

Ace2016: none do that I'm aware, you'll need to copy over the menu files from the default theme into your theme folder

[15:47:16]

justinh:

mainmenu.xml, etc etc etc

[15:47:41]

Ace2016:

ok

[15:48:47]

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[15:49:00]

matthijs_:

i dont hear sound while watching Live TV. it does work when i use MPlayer

[15:49:00]

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[15:49:49]

justinh:

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinput! neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed input!

[15:50:08]

matthijs_:

?

[15:50:13]

justinh:

input!

[15:50:17]

justinh:

more information

[15:50:30]

justinh:

help my sound no worky! HELP!

[15:50:36]

iamlindoro_:

I should come up with something suitably obnoxious to repeat every five minutes until someone pays attention to me, since everyone else seems to do that around here

[15:50:39]

justinh:

that doesn't give anybody anything to go on

[15:50:48]

matthijs_:

what do u want to know justinh

[15:51:03]

justinh:

have a think about what kind of information might be pertinent here

[15:51:11]

justinh:

and then furnish us with it

[15:51:20]

|Torg|:

my mythtv is broken and the input does not work :P

[15:51:45]

matthijs_:

just tell me what u want to know because i dont understand what is wrong ;o

[15:51:59]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, you know what would be helpful? If myth were able to put pertinent information into a f ile of some sort that could later be used for troubleshooting. Someone should look into that.

[15:52:12]

justinh:

awesome idea. I'll get right on it

[15:52:29]

justinh:

1. what kind of tuner card is it?

[15:52:31]

iamlindoro_:

Like a twitter for your console output!

[15:52:40]

iamlindoro_:

I'll call it a "twog!"

[15:52:43]

EvilGuru:

#alsa have a neat little script which does that for sound etc and dumps it to a paste bin

[15:53:08]

matthijs_:

1. Cinergy 400 (yes ive been on the wiki site and tried both the ciommands that are there if your sound doesnt work)

[15:53:27]

gbee:

matthijs_: have you configured the sound device in the setup?

[15:53:27]

justinh:

framegrabber

[15:53:28]

justinh:

bye bye

[15:53:30]

matthijs_:

and they both didnt work

[15:53:49]

matthijs_:

gbee, no, but the sound works anywhere else

[15:54:05]

matthijs_:

except for live tv via mythtv

[15:54:11]

gbee:

anywhere else in mythtv?

[15:55:07]

matthijs_:

let me try

[15:55:43]

matthijs_:

yes

[15:55:48]

matthijs_:

avi files or mp3 files work

[15:55:53]

justinh:

help! my patience has gone away! somebody help! ;)

[15:55:53]

matthijs_:

and i hear sound

[15:56:03]

iamlindoro_:

*cough* mplayer *cough*

[15:56:08]

matthijs_:

hehe, im patient :)

[15:56:14]

iamlindoro_:

yeah, but we're not

[15:56:18]

matthijs_:

i hear sound on mplayer

[15:56:32]

matthijs_:

when i watch tv with it

[15:56:34]

iamlindoro_:

that's the point, matthijs_, those avi files are probably being played by mplayer

[15:56:52]

Ace2016:

what about dvds?

[15:56:55]

matthijs_:

ok i dnot know how mythtv works lol

[15:57:11]

Ace2016:

i don't think mplayer plays them because mythtv can't play dvds properly but mplayer can

[15:57:12]

matthijs_:

how does mythtv plays live tv?

[15:57:33]

iamlindoro_:

anyway, as justinh said, you're using a framegrabber-- you need to get your TV card working, with sound, in *linux* before you can expect it to work in Myth. You should be testing in something like tvtime, etc. until you have the tuner hooked up properly, *then* we can help you with myth

[15:57:54]

matthijs_:

ah

[15:58:12]

matthijs_:

i hear sound on mplayer (with live tv..) doesnt that say enough?

[15:58:12]

gbee:

Ace2016: wtf? MythTV can play DVDs just fine

[15:59:21]

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[16:00:07]

matthijs_:

iamlindoro, the sound worked in myth before, i have no idea why it doesnt work now

[16:00:43]

matthijs_:

now it works in mplayer, with live tv, that means there is something wrong in myth right?

[16:01:25]

justinh:

hmm no sound in mythtv with a framegrabber but it works in mplayer. myers. nothing to do with anything like not having the soundcard input the tuner is plugged into selected to be CAPTUREd or anything like that, eh?

[16:01:28]

Ace2016:

mine are messed up

[16:01:37]

Ace2016:

not sure why

[16:02:01]

justinh:

Ace2016: and unreported problems are unfixed problems

[16:02:18]

matthijs_:

justinh, i dont get what u mean

[16:02:39]

Ace2016:

http://img385.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03oo0.png

[16:03:01]

** justinh recommends all future framegrabber users be terminated at birth, or worst-case just forced to read the 'configuring sound' section of the official mythtv docs **

[16:03:18]

matthijs_:

lol

[16:03:25]

Dibblah:

Myth has documentation?

[16:03:34]

matthijs_:

:D

[16:03:40]

Dibblah:

I thought it was all "contact justinh on IRC"...

[16:03:50]

Dibblah:

;)

[16:03:54]

iamlindoro_:

It certainly appears some user beleive that to be true

[16:03:57]

iamlindoro_:

users

[16:04:05]

|Torg|:

no its bug Dibblah then ask justinh on IRC, RTFM :P

[16:04:24]

Ace2016:

bye all

[16:04:26]

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[16:04:33]

iamlindoro_:

What really irritates me is when you tell someone to google their simple problem and they go "Can't you just tell me? It's so much easier."

[16:04:33]

justinh:

no it's bug everybody else, ignore everything they say, then bug me, then give up when I shout

[16:04:55]

|Torg|:

whats google?

[16:05:19]

|Torg|:

and I looked it up on wikipedia so it must be true

[16:05:46]

gbee:

matthijs_: mplayer doesn't record livetv it just streams video from the card and the audio arrives passively through the soundcard – mythtv records livetv but can't record the sound unless you setup the cables and audio mixers correctly, it's not a mythtv bug just a setup issue

[16:06:05]

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[16:06:09]

matthijs_:

ok gbee

[16:06:26]

matthijs_:

so mythtv records all live tv?

[16:06:30]

gbee:

yes

[16:06:32]

matthijs_:

didnt know that

[16:06:36]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: the nursemaid generation

[16:06:40]

matthijs_:

so is there a

[16:06:46]

matthijs_:

i cant get the word

[16:06:46]

gbee:

otherwise it can't pause and rewind, which is the point of a PVR

[16:06:53]

matthijs_:

ye i understand that

[16:07:01]

matthijs_:

byut i thought it only records stuff

[16:07:04]

matthijs_:

when u pause

[16:07:20]

iamlindoro_:

you were mistaken

[16:07:20]

justinh:

why can't everybody just read the fucking docs before even installing mythtv? WHY?

[16:07:30]

stoneymonster|aw is now known as stoneymonster

[16:07:36]

matthijs_:

but is it true that if u watch live tv, that yu are actually a few seconds behind? or am i wrong

[16:07:54]

justinh:

yes it's true

[16:07:54]

|Torg|:

its true that if you watch tv at all your a few seconds behind

[16:08:04]

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[16:08:09]

justinh:

but if you watch live tv it's also true that you're WASTING YOUR LIFE

[16:08:10]

matthijs_:

hmm

[16:08:27]

matthijs_:

whgat is wrong with u :p

[16:08:37]

justinh:

the whole point of mythtv is to record everything you might conceivably enjoy watching

[16:08:38]

MinDKrime:

Live TV? Myth can do that? (Snickers)

[16:08:40]

matthijs_:

justinh that is

[16:08:57]

iamlindoro_:

matthijs_, it's a few seconds behind because Myth is *recording everything*, like we said.... it's not just appearing out of the magic TV buffer in the sky

[16:08:57]

justinh:

so that YOU are in control of what you watch, when you want to watch it

[16:09:18]

matthijs_:

i understand, ty

[16:09:39]

matthijs_:

so how many seconds is it or is that variable

[16:09:45]

gbee:

guys, go easy on him, I know it's frustrating but ...

[16:09:48]

justinh:

you might aswell just open mplayer if all you want to do is watch dumb TV

[16:09:50]

matthijs_:

becuase there must be a limit in whicn u can forward

[16:10:01]

matthijs_:

gbee, lol

[16:10:04]

GreyFoxx:

math: 1–6 seconds

[16:10:06]

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[16:10:13]

GreyFoxx:

assuming you haven't paused for a while

[16:10:16]

justinh:

6–30 seconds

[16:10:22]

matthijs_:

GreyFoxx, ok

[16:10:24]

justinh:

depends very much on the kind of tuner you have

[16:10:59]

justinh:

it's not that it matters much – tv schedules are on a timeline of their own anyway

[16:11:01]

matthijs_:

ok let me RTFM ;p

[16:11:28]

justinh:

in their own time-space continuum in some parts of the world

[16:12:10]

justinh:

what the hell is people's problem with reading the docs BEFORE installing?

[16:12:28]

GreyFoxx:

excitement and the thrill of a new toy

[16:12:37]

GreyFoxx:

I NEVER read the docs on a newly bought toy

[16:12:39]

justinh:

weird

[16:12:43]

GreyFoxx:

until I get stuck

[16:12:56]

justinh:

I RTFM before I even buy new toys

[16:12:58]

GreyFoxx:

But, once I get stuck I go right for the manuial :)

[16:13:02]

justinh:

I must be weird

[16:13:12]

matthijs_:

i tried GreyFoxx :p

[16:13:22]

matthijs_:

i just didnt know what ALSA was

[16:13:25]

matthijs_:

i think i got it now

[16:13:47]

matthijs_:

uhm lol

[16:13:50]

justinh:

and I'm not making this up – before I installed mythtv I read the docs like 3 or 4 times

[16:14:00]

GreyFoxx:

just: Same here

[16:14:01]

matthijs_:

i chose Watch TV and now it just closed

[16:14:06]

matthijs_:

the whole program (mythTV

[16:14:08]

GreyFoxx:

but for real physical stuff I never do

[16:14:14]

EvilGuru:

SIGSEGV

[16:14:15]

justinh:

and that was because I'd been told it was a real bitch

[16:14:28]

** GreyFoxx goes to lunch **

[16:14:51]

|Torg|:

and here I thought I was strange becae I downloaded documentaiton and drivers and vistied hardware forums BEFORE I bought the hardware

[16:15:13]

justinh:

so I'm not the only one then. thank God for that

[16:15:27]

matthijs_:

guys, now when i choose Watch TV, mythtv just closes...

[16:15:56]

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[16:15:57]

justinh:

I want to meet somebody who posts a list of hardware on a forum asking "will mythtv work on this" so I can slap them though

[16:16:05]

GreyFoxx:

hehehe

[16:16:20]

EvilGuru:

For hardware the manual normally contains the list of un-supported functionality/features marketing normally omit

[16:17:07]

matthijs_:

my hardware isnt the problem i think..

[16:17:20]

justinh:

matthijs_: I suppose there's no log output you could pop into a pastebin to help enlighten us ?

[16:17:31]

matthijs_:

i just changed something (like TFM said) and now it crashes

[16:17:35]

Dibblah:

matthijs_: Which guide are you following for installation / configuration?

[16:17:46]

matthijs_:

http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-7.html

[16:18:06]

matthijs_:

Using ALSA. (that is on Sound Configuration)

[16:18:20]

matthijs_:

wait let me search for the log

[16:19:28]

justinh:

well, time I wasn't here

[16:19:30]

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[16:20:13]

abqjp:

|Torg|: where you the one wanting multiple socket motherboards? http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3335

[16:20:20]

|Torg|:

yes sir, thanks

[16:23:57]

matthijs_:

so, what did i do wrong? btw, which logfile shuold i check

[16:27:15]

matthijs_:

brb

[16:27:22]

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[16:39:55]

matthijs_:

hi, ive been testing some sound configurations

[16:40:05]

matthijs_:

and when i use ALSA:default

[16:40:05]

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[16:40:22]

matthijs_:

i see 1 frame every 3 seconds.. so it goes very slow

[16:40:30]

matthijs_:

when i use ALSA:analog

[16:40:53]

matthijs_:

its more like 10 fps, and it also goes very slow

[16:41:12]

matthijs_:

does anyone know what i have to do to get it to work?

[16:42:49]

Lynet:

To repeat someone else: I suppose there's no log output you could pop into a pastebin to help enlighten us ?

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[16:47:11]

matthijs_:

its more lik slowmotin, when i use ALSA:analog

[16:47:27]

matthijs_:

now i also have the mixer on ALSA:default, but still it looks like slowmotion, and i dont hear any sound

[16:48:11]

Lynet:

To repeat someone else: I suppose there's no log output you could pop into a pastebin to help enlighten us ?

[16:48:28]

matthijs_:

which logfile do i need

[16:48:46]

matthijs_:

i have mythtv-backend

[16:48:48]

matthijs_:

and forend

[16:48:50]

matthijs_:

or somethng

[16:49:24]

Lynet:

matthijs_: The comlpetely unrelated apache tomcat log, obviously. Duh. The frontend/backend logs, please.

[16:49:43]

matthijs_:

lol

[16:49:49]

matthijs_:

paste them here?

[16:49:58]

Lynet:

*no*

[16:50:05]

Lynet:

On a pastebin. Do you know what that is?

[16:50:20]

matthijs_:

ye i kno

[16:50:21]

matthijs_:

wait

[16:51:18]

matthijs_:

var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log {LSA:default

[16:51:18]

matthijs_:

daily

[16:51:18]

matthijs_:

rotate 7

[16:51:18]

matthijs_:

notifempty

[16:51:18]

matthijs_:

copytruncate

[16:51:19]

matthijs_:

}

[16:51:23]

matthijs_:

omg

[16:51:30]

matthijs_:

i copied the link lol (damn this mouse)

[16:51:48]

matthijs_:

http://pastebin.ca/1049242

[16:52:01]

matthijs_:

anyway, that is what is in the file ;s doesnt look like a logfile to me tho

[16:52:57]

matthijs_:

i think i got the wrong logfile

[16:53:00]

matthijs_:

:D

[16:54:23]

matthijs_:

wait, its a pretty long log

[16:55:59]

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[16:56:38]

matthijs_:

ok i updated the bin

[16:56:41]

matthijs_:

http://pastebin.ca/1049242

[16:57:00]

matthijs_:

its the backend log

[16:57:27]

Lynet:

You sure that's the right link? I still see the old file.

[16:57:29]

matthijs_:

(the end of it :p)

[16:57:35]

matthijs_:

wait

[16:57:53]

matthijs_:

http://pastebin.ca/1049243

[16:57:55]

matthijs_:

sry

[17:00:02]

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[17:00:22]

matthijs_:

do u need more? because it is a very long log i cant select it all, and the other logfile aswell

[17:00:24]

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[17:03:23]

matthijs_:

WAIT

[17:03:26]

matthijs_:

i think i found it

[17:03:30]

matthijs_:

but i dont understand it

[17:03:32]

matthijs_:

2008-06–17 18:43:15.518 AudioOutput Error: snd_pcm_open(analog): No such file or directory

[17:03:32]

matthijs_:

2008-06–17 18:43:15.518 NVP: Disabling Audio, reason is: snd_pcm_open(analog): No such file or directory

[17:03:45]

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[17:08:43]

whoDat_:

hrmph, icon download only grabbed icons for maybe 20% of my channels

[17:08:49]

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[17:09:13]

iamlindoro_:

That's pretty much normal

[17:09:27]

whoDat_:

6

[17:09:28]

whoDat_:

WUAB

[17:09:38]

whoDat_:

common channel i would think.. no icon for it though

[17:09:59]

whoDat_:

unless it doesnt use just the callsign?

[17:10:09]

iamlindoro_:

why would you think a local channel would be common?

[17:10:14]

iamlindoro_:

only common to your immediate area

[17:10:40]

whoDat_:

oh good point

[17:11:06]

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[17:11:06]

whoDat_:

it missed channels like TLC, DSC, BRAVO, HISTORY though

[17:11:30]

iamlindoro_:

yep, like I said, it can only do its best

[17:11:39]

iamlindoro_:

20% on a blind run is pretty much par for the course

[17:12:04]

tritium:

Hello, I'm trying to run mythtv-setup, but I get an error "Cannot login to database?" when I try.

[17:12:11]

whoDat_:

okay, i will fill in the rest manually, just takes a little time

[17:12:31]

iamlindoro_:

all the icon scripts are in contrib/icons

[17:12:41]

iamlindoro_:

you can run it from the command line and pick from the things it thinks it might be

[17:12:47]

iamlindoro_:

that ought to get you 90% of your icons

[17:13:03]

whoDat_:

iamlindoro, oh, i looked all around the documentation on how to jump straight to a channel in the channel guide, it doesnt seem possible?

[17:13:35]

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[17:13:57]

whoDat_:

ahh, so its interactive if you run the script from the command line

[17:14:00]

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[17:14:35]

matthijs_:

so guys, my sound still doesnt work and i fuond this in my logs

[17:14:37]

matthijs_:

2008-06–17 18:43:15.518 AudioOutput Error: snd_pcm_open(analog): No such file or directory

[17:14:57]

matthijs_:

2008-06–17 18:43:15.518 NVP: Disabling Audio, reason is: snd_pcm_open(analog): No such file or directory

[17:15:04]

iamlindoro_:

matthijs_, so you appear to have set ALSA:analog, but there is no ALSA device called "analog." Fix it.

[17:15:17]

matthijs_:

i also set it to default

[17:15:20]

iamlindoro_:

and stop repeating your questions. If someone wants to help you, they will

[17:15:26]

iamlindoro_:

It is really, really irritating

[17:15:33]

matthijs_:

repeating?

[17:15:45]

matthijs_:

my pc crashed, thats why maybe i repeated it

[17:15:48]

iamlindoro_:

yes, you have been here for several hours and you keep re-requesting help

[17:15:49]

iamlindoro_:

stop

[17:15:50]

matthijs_:

i coulndt look it back

[17:16:05]

iamlindoro_:

you have also been basically talking to yourself for an hour. Stop doing that too.

[17:16:31]

matthijs_:

right but i suppose nobody is going to read what i said 3 hours ago

[17:16:39]

whoDat_:

iam: as long as he doesnt repeat it every 5 minutes lol

[17:16:52]

iamlindoro_:

whoDat_, no. It's not ok.

[17:16:55]

whoDat_:

in an hour or so, other ppl can show up

[17:17:14]

iamlindoro_:

whoDat_, stay out of it.

[17:17:19]

matthijs_:

now i found something (i guess) so i pasted that once, then my pc crashed

[17:17:22]

matthijs_:

so i posted it again

[17:17:25]

** whoDat_ zips hit lips. **

[17:17:57]

matthijs_:

iamlindoro, i set it to ALSA:default too but then the live TV is also slow as hell

[17:18:10]

matthijs_:

i didnt look in the logs, what it said there tho

[17:18:21]

matthijs_:

but with analog, it said that, what i posted before

[17:18:52]

iamlindoro_:

matthijs_, I have already answered why that appears

[17:18:56]

Lynet:

Gotta love people that are in write-only mode, eh? :-/

[17:19:10]

matthijs_:

u said

[17:19:15]

matthijs_:

Fix it

[17:19:28]

iamlindoro_:

way to ignore the sentence *before* that

[17:19:28]

matthijs_:

to what?

[17:19:45]

Lynet:

"so you appear to have set ALSA:analog, but there is no ALSA device called "analog.""

[17:20:07]

matthijs_:

i explained that..

[17:20:10]

** iamlindoro_ decides not to waste any more time helping **

[17:20:16]

iamlindoro_:

have fun!

[17:20:20]

matthijs_:

i tried default, analog, all of them

[17:20:31]

Lynet:

Google for the error message. Look in alsa documentation.

[17:20:38]

matthijs_:

did both

[17:20:41]

EvilGuru:

Or #alsa

[17:20:53]

matthijs_:

in docu, it says i need default

[17:20:59]

matthijs_:

but that doesnt work

[17:21:12]

matthijs_:

the video lagges as hell and i dont hear anything

[17:21:24]

matthijs_:

but the manual says i need default

[17:21:36]

iamlindoro_:

So your alsa default setting is broken/wrong, #alsa again. Ask them how to set up the alsa "default" device properly.

[17:22:07]

matthijs_:

ok

[17:24:15]

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[17:27:31]

dustybin:

i think www.mozilla.com is being DoS'd i cannot seem to log in

[17:28:10]

iamlindoro_:

It's Firefox 3 day, duh

[17:28:17]

iamlindoro_:

they're not being DoS'ed

[17:28:20]

dustybin:

a DoS what they created themselves

[17:28:25]

Lynet:

Self-DoS'ed.

[17:28:28]

dustybin:

yes

[17:28:42]

dustybin:

they wanted to do a world record for the most amount of downloads

[17:28:44]

dustybin:

doh...

[17:28:45]

wagner:

i just grabbed the installer, took about 15 seconds

[17:28:56]

wagner:

thats near my download limit

[17:29:17]

Lynet:

Http/1.1 Service Unavailable

[17:29:47]

PatrickDK:

loads fine for me

[17:30:00]

wagner:

their front page is slow, but it eventually opens

[17:30:19]

wagner:

i just clicked a direct link, first post on the /. article

[17:30:49]

wagner:

ah yes, mozilla.org still works, but mozilla.com is down

[17:31:08]

PatrickDK:

heh

[17:31:21]

PatrickDK:

it's not firefox 3 day, atleast their homepage is pushing 2.0.0.14

[17:31:42]

wagner:

ff3 day started half an hour ago

[17:31:46]

Lynet:

Was supposed to have stared half an hour ago. Hmm.

[17:31:48]

PatrickDK:

I went to www.mozilla.com just fine

[17:32:17]

PatrickDK:

well, 30seconds ago from www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/ says Firefox 2.0.0.14

[17:35:46]

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[17:43:31]

tritium:

I followed http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category:MySQL to reset the mythtv password, but it fails as follows: mysql> UPDATE user SET Password=PASSWORD('Mukilteo97') WHERE user='mythtv';

[17:43:35]

tritium:

ERROR 1046 (3D000): No database selected

[17:43:40]

tritium:

Any thoughts?

[17:45:35]

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[17:45:38]

iamlindoro_:

other than you forgot to put "mysql" at the end of the command line so that you would be using the mysql DB? Nope.

[17:45:48]

iamlindoro_:

"mysql -u root mysql"

[17:45:54]

iamlindoro_:

you forgot the second mysql

[17:46:24]

tritium:

I just followed the wiki page.

[17:46:34]

iamlindoro_:

That's pasted *from* the wiki page you just posted

[17:46:46]

tritium:

No, that's pasted from my cli

[17:46:55]

tritium:

along with the resulting error

[17:46:57]

iamlindoro_:

*I* just pased from that wiki page

[17:47:17]

iamlindoro_:

so you didn't follow it closely enough

[17:47:20]

tritium:

I first did mysql -u root -p, and was then prompted for the passowrd

[17:47:29]

iamlindoro_:

jesus christ

[17:47:33]

iamlindoro_:

"mysql -u root mysql"

[17:47:35]

iamlindoro_:

look closely

[17:47:40]

iamlindoro_:

the last word in that paste?

[17:47:45]

iamlindoro_:

That's the NAME OF THE FUCKING DB

[17:47:47]

directhex:

iamlindoro, seems it's an extra length sunday this week

[17:48:11]

tritium:

Calm down, please.

[17:48:11]

** iamlindoro_ hands directhex a trout and presents his right cheek **

[17:48:33]

iamlindoro_:

tritium, you are claiming to have followed the wiki, but you are making up your own commands

[17:48:49]

iamlindoro_:

*you* blew it because *you* did not follow the commands as they are written

[17:48:52]

directhex:

tritium, he said exactly what you did wrong. twice. and you argued against it. how much are you paying for this support contract, exactly?

[17:48:55]

tritium:

iamlindoro_: mysql -u root mysql errors out

[17:49:05]

iamlindoro_:

tritium, so now add a -p

[17:49:11]

iamlindoro_:

mysql -u root -p mysql

[17:50:25]

tritium:

Thanks, that was the diff I needed.

[17:50:33]

matthijs_:

iamlindoro, u told me to go to #also and ask them to set up my default device properly, but what does that actually mean?

[17:50:42]

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[17:50:57]

tritium:

directhex: note that there was a difference from the wiki page

[17:51:02]

directhex:

matthijs_, you have a problem with the configuration of ALSA on your system. guess how to get ALSA support

[17:51:44]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, I'm going to end up owing you a beer if you keep heading off my blood pressure hikes like this

[17:51:47]

directhex:

tritium, every distro i've encountered allows passwordless authentication to mysql when running as root

[17:52:27]

tritium:

michael@htpc:~$ mysql -u root mysql

[17:52:28]

tritium:

ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)

[17:52:32]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, Ah, but your stupid wiki doesn't take into account people who set one for MOAR SIKURITEE

[17:52:41]

whoDat_:

i looked all around the documentation on how to jump straight to a channel in the channel guide, it doesnt seem possible?

[17:52:56]

directhex:

tritium, so your distribution behaves in a non-standard manner, OR you set something up in a non-standard manner

[17:53:01]

directhex:

whoDat_, press M

[17:53:08]

whoDat_:

oops i reposted a question * hides from iamlindoro ;) *

[17:53:22]

tritium:

directhex: so your anger is misplaced

[17:53:32]

whoDat_:

M! thanks directhex

[17:53:45]

directhex:

if i were angry i'd be calling you a cunt. safe bet is i'm not angry

[17:53:48]

directhex:

mildly peturbed at best

[17:54:17]

tritium:

I pasted the error, so you can see I've not lied.

[17:54:31]

iamlindoro_:

You know, it usually doesn't get this short-bus in here until eveningtime in the USA

[17:55:32]

directhex:

that's not the point. the point is you were typing an incorrect command which was NOT the command on the wiki (even though that didn't work, that's a distinct issue) and A) lied by saying it was a paste from the wiki and B) refused to correct what you were typing to fix the error you were reporting, by ignoring the repeated fixes from iamlindoro_

[17:55:40]

directhex:

that's the problem, and source of annoyance

[17:56:22]

tritium:

I never said anything was a paste from the wiki. I said it was a paste from cli.

[17:56:42]

directhex:

[18:46] <tritium> I just followed the wiki page.

[17:56:49]

iamlindoro_:

You repeatedly claimed to have followed the wiki-- but what you used was *not* from the wiki

[17:56:58]

Lynet:

" I followed http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Category:MySQL to reset the mythtv password"

[17:57:01]

tritium:

nothing about pasting from the wiki there

[17:57:16]

directhex:

know what? i don't use /ignore enough

[17:57:22]

directhex:

iamlindoro, i suggest the same

[17:57:27]

iamlindoro_:

ooh, +me

[17:58:03]

tritium:

Your point A) is incorrect, and a false accusation of lying.

[17:58:32]

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[17:58:46]

iamlindoro_:

and thus, the ignore is made unnecessary.

[17:59:27]

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[17:59:36]

directhex:

i don't get it. why do people ARGUE so much when they want free support?

[18:00:11]

iamlindoro_:

because people can't take responsibility for having fucked htings up, and would rather it be a bug/documentation fault/etc.

[18:00:21]

iamlindoro_:

And this is why we will all be eaten by wolves

[18:01:10]

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[18:01:33]

EvilGuru:

He really did make a dogs dinner out of resetting a password

[18:01:47]

gbee:

henceforth there will be no free support, support will cost a very reasonable $20/hr, payable to my paypal account or by check if in the UK

[18:02:37]

gbee:

heh, so Mozilla has screwed up the FF3 launch, no suprise there

[18:03:11]

EvilGuru:

That and the fact that #mysql would probably have been a better place to ask

[18:03:28]

wagner:

gbee: how so?

[18:03:42]

Lynet:

front-page still lists ff2

[18:03:48]

wagner:

oh

[18:03:48]

gbee:

wagner: go to their website and they are still offering FF2 :)

[18:04:09]

directhex:

gbee, $20 an hour is peanuts for incident support

[18:04:13]

gbee:

FF3 was supposed to start shipping over an hour ago

[18:04:20]

directhex:

gbee, i think £300 per half day is closer the mark

[18:04:23]

gbee:

directhex: exactly, I'm not greedy

[18:04:25]

EvilGuru:

Esp. considering the weakish dollar

[18:05:14]

whoDat_:

wagner: were you the one with the 4250hdc?

[18:05:43]

wagner:

i dont know what a 4250hdc is, so i guess not

[18:07:34]

A-:

gbee: http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox- . . . p;lang=en-US

[18:07:54]

A-:

-win +linux/+osx as needed

[18:08:25]

gbee:

A-: yeah, I know it's available but at the end of the day thousands of people will go to their main page and find it not available, or worse yet for their record, download the wrong version :)

[18:08:37]

A-:

yep

[18:08:41]

|Torg|:

apt-get install firefox

[18:09:00]

JohnMahowald:

yum install firefox

[18:09:12]

gbee:

urpmi forefox

[18:09:13]

gbee:

I win

[18:09:32]

iamlindoro_:

pacman foreskin

[18:09:47]

gbee:

no, I stand corrected – iamlindoro_ wins

[18:10:05]

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[18:11:17]

wagner:

well portage (gentoo) still hasnt been updated for 3.0, the other package systems have?

[18:11:38]

directhex:

wagner, um, ubuntu shipped 3.0 with 8.04

[18:11:52]

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[18:12:25]

wagner:

it shipped with beta5, yes

[18:12:30]

wagner:

i mean today's release

[18:13:06]

wagner:

the version in portage is still 3.0rc3

[18:13:46]

** gbee takes Opera 9.50 for a spin **

[18:20:30]

MrMunkily:

the new mythui wiki page is getting me excited

[18:20:48]

Dagmar:

Do wear looser pants

[18:21:00]

Dagmar:

s/Do/So/;

[18:21:00]

MrMunkily:

I immediately regretted that wording

[18:21:50]

squish102:

apt-get install firefox getting version 3?

[18:22:10]

Dagmar:

Yep. It came out today

[18:22:25]

|Torg|:

ii firefox 3.0~rc1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.8.04.1

[18:23:17]

Dagmar:

I ain't lookin' forward to figurin' out how to compile that one, either

[18:23:55]

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[18:24:55]

squish102:

mine still says there is no update... the repository must be behind

[18:25:01]

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[18:26:37]

keith4:

shocking

[18:26:46]

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[18:29:28]

squish102:

i think mozilla just croaked

[18:30:55]

ImMelody:

Is this a MythDora problem or a Fedora problem? We have a MythDora (latest distro) machine set up. I'm trying to access the shares from a Fedora 9. I can access the shares just fine from Windows, but cannot access it from Fedora 9.

[18:31:13]

wagner:

samba shares i assume?

[18:31:20]

ImMelody:

yes

[18:31:49]

Dagmar:

InMelody: The thing you should be asking yourself is, "Is this a MythTV problem?"

[18:32:15]

ImMelody:

I did ask myself that.. And came up with the answer no. But #fedora says it's not a fedora issue either.

[18:32:27]

wagner:

yeah, try samba

[18:32:36]

Dagmar:

Yes, but those are RedHat users you're talking to

[18:33:00]

wagner:

i would give you the irc link, but it seems the samba site is down

[18:33:06]

wagner:

they must be hosted on the mozilla servers

[18:33:21]

ImMelody:

Oh well.. Thanks :)

[18:33:34]

wagner:

try '#samba' in this server

[18:33:43]

ImMelody:

alrighty thanks

[18:34:07]

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[19:26:09]

Dibblah:

Ugh. How not to write a bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/232004

[19:26:17]

Dibblah:

And how not to triage a bug report.

[19:27:11]

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[19:30:50]

iamlindoro_:

If anyone's interested in a $100 750 GB Seagate drive, Newegg is running a special today

[19:31:30]

wagner:

damn you iamlindoro_, making me spend my money

[19:31:43]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?It . . . A-_-22148134

[19:31:49]

iamlindoro_:

promo code EMCAGBHBF

[19:31:54]

iamlindoro_:

(while checking out)

[19:32:12]

iamlindoro_:

heh

[19:32:15]

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[19:32:43]

wagner:

5 year warrenty too

[19:32:56]

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[19:33:02]

iamlindoro_:

yeah, Seagate are the only people I buy drives from when I can afford it :)

[19:33:11]

iamlindoro_:

but at that price, it's easy to justify

[19:33:18]

wagner:

i guess this means my old array is getting stripped

[19:33:31]

wagner:

ive got enough to completely move it over

[19:33:50]

GreyFoxx:

too bad that wont ship to Canada *sigh*

[19:34:12]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx, that's always seemed like such a grave error on their part

[19:34:32]

iamlindoro_:

I can't imagine dealing w/ customs is *that* awful that it's easier to just cut off the business entirely

[19:34:38]

GreyFoxx:

They've lost thousands in stuff I would bought on a whim just from this channel :)

[19:34:45]

GreyFoxx:

iaml: It's not

[19:35:06]

GreyFoxx:

But several online business stopped selling to Canada not long after we refused to go to Iraq

[19:35:08]

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[19:35:09]

GreyFoxx:

not saying that is the cause

[19:35:16]

GreyFoxx:

just several sites stopped around the same time :)

[19:35:41]

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[19:35:47]

iamlindoro_:

I should hope that's not the cause, *usually* tech businesses have a few brain cells in their heads

[19:35:53]

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[19:35:54]

iamlindoro_:

but anything's possible

[19:36:33]

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[19:38:26]

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[19:38:57]

GreyFoxx:

It's lost revenue for them

[19:39:04]

GreyFoxx:

I know many people who would order from there

[19:39:54]

** GreyFoxx wonders if he knows anyone who actively uses MCE to do some packet sniffing for him **

[19:40:17]

wagner:

iamlindoro_: is this deal one per household?

[19:40:40]

iamlindoro_:

wagner, I don't know, TBH

[19:48:13]

wagner:

i think ill get one of each

[19:48:31]

wagner:

heterogeneous RAIDs are better for reliability

[19:48:46]

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[19:51:12]

wagner:

personally, i love samsung HDs

[19:51:26]

iamlindoro_:

wagner, There is an identical deal on samsung today

[19:51:35]

wagner:

right, im looking at the email

[19:51:40]

iamlindoro_:

ah, ok

[19:51:42]

wagner:

like i said, i was going to get one of each

[19:51:44]

iamlindoro_:

what e-mail?

[19:51:50]

sid3windr:

samsung hd's?! ;/

[19:51:58]

wagner:

the newegg about the deal

[19:52:07]

iamlindoro_:

ah, didn't get that one

[19:52:15]

iamlindoro_:

I pulled myself off all their lists

[19:52:21]

wagner:

ive got two in my desktop, another three in the server, ive not yet had a single failure over a couple years of use

[19:52:42]

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[19:53:06]

wagner:

not needing a warranty is better than having a long one

[19:53:36]

BULLE:

samsung offers long warranty aswell, and seem to have a good reputation for durability these days

[19:53:50]

wagner:

its either 3 or 5 years, i dont remember

[19:54:06]

BULLE:

its all 5 years here, atleast for desktop class drives

[19:54:11]

AndyCap:

haha, all disks die, and all manufacturers have bad batches.

[19:54:15]

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[19:54:19]

BULLE:

AndyCap: sure

[19:54:20]

AndyCap:

behave accordingly

[19:54:34]

BULLE:

AndyCap: still, i prefer to buy a disk with 5 year warranty instead of 2 or 3

[19:54:44]

BULLE:

AndyCap: atleast i will get a broken disk replaced for a longer time

[19:54:59]

sid3windr:

I have had enough disks die to never ever implement a non-raid solution

[19:55:29]

wagner:

doh! they charge shipping

[19:55:41]

sid3windr:

oh no, shipping :x

[19:55:53]

wagner:

sid3windr: even for boot disks?

[19:56:06]

sid3windr:

wagner: yes

[19:56:17]

sid3windr:

I don't have "boot disks" btw

[19:56:26]

wagner:

well, system disks rather

[19:56:59]

wagner:

if i lose my windows system disk, i lose the time it takes to reinstall those programs

[19:57:08]

wagner:

theres nothing unrecoverable on there

[19:57:33]

wagner:

my other machines, i just tarball once i get them set up

[19:57:46]

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[19:58:04]

wagner:

all i have to do is stick another disk in, unpack, and im ready to go

[19:58:23]

wagner:

rather than spending money on mirrored disks

[19:58:35]

wagner:

i guess its all a matter of how much down time youre willing to have

[19:59:29]

sid3windr:

:)

[19:59:36]

sid3windr:

my windows setup is pretty customized

[19:59:43]

sid3windr:

and I save downloads 'n' stuff on c:

[19:59:47]

sid3windr:

so I have raid1 ;)

[20:00:40]

wagner:

well my setup is pretty customized too, and its all stored in my roaming profile on my raid6-backed PDC... :P

[20:01:05]

sid3windr:

;)

[20:01:10]

sid3windr:

I don't to pdc ;)

[20:01:12]

sid3windr:

*do

[20:01:46]

wagner:

i just went to that because i already had the raid setup, and samba, and everything else

[20:01:53]

wagner:

so why not just switch it over

[20:09:18]

iamlindoro_:

Holy cow, Alexander Strange is a fucking beast

[20:09:48]

iamlindoro_:

He is committing patches like it's going out of style on the ffmpeg GSoC multithreading project

[20:10:01]

GreyFoxx:

heh

[20:10:18]

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[20:10:28]

iamlindoro_:

GreyFoxx, seriously! Like 17 today

[20:10:46]

iamlindoro_:

including framework for MPEGvideo multithreading, and support for MPEG-1 multithread

[20:11:23]

iamlindoro_:

that is to say, general support, and then codec-specific support for MPG-1

[20:15:24]

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[20:21:35]

wagner:

well you can only use one code at a time, so i had to do them separately

[20:21:58]

wagner:

im going to lose the old array, out of space on the controller

[20:22:10]

wagner:

but i dont know if i want to bump the new one up to 6, or leave it at 5

[20:24:30]

EvilGuru:

iamlindoro_: Smells like progress

[20:24:42]

iamlindoro_:

ffmpeg really is a children's treasury of entirely uncommented code, though

[20:25:11]

wagner:

is there really much purpose to making mpeg-1 multithreaded?

[20:25:16]

iamlindoro_:

If you see patches in context of their discussion they make great sense, but if you look at some of the codec code, it is wayyyy out there

[20:25:24]

wagner:

or is that just the first step to making the rest of the stuff multithreaded

[20:25:35]

iamlindoro_:

wagner, His point is to add a framework by which all codecs can be, and he is implementing the simple ones to start

[20:25:44]

wagner:

ah, ok

[20:26:01]

wagner:

relatively simple codec to practice on, basically

[20:26:05]

iamlindoro_:

yeah

[20:26:06]

EvilGuru:

iamlindoro_: Will all codecs need a workout?

[20:26:14]

iamlindoro_:

EvilGuru, yeah, appears so

[20:26:19]

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[20:27:59]

EvilGuru:

Do FFmpeg normally use libs for decoding/encoding (such as lame, the FLAC lib, libvorbis) etc or it is their own implementation

[20:28:13]

iamlindoro_:

It's all their own

[20:28:27]

iamlindoro_:

and their library (libavcodec) is in turn used by pretty much everyone

[20:28:41]

iamlindoro_:

well, libraries, that is (libavformat, libavutil, etc)

[20:29:14]

iamlindoro_:

The neat part is this work also adds support for multithreaded *encode* of all codecs, too

[20:29:25]

iamlindoro_:

one of the neat parts

[20:29:44]

EvilGuru:

Now that is neat. I was encoding some theora a while back and it was 2 hours of one-core action

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[20:41:32]

Dagmar:

Oh sweet. Thank you NewEgg. They didn't screw me over on the rush processing so I'll actually have the new gear in time to work on it this weekend

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[21:45:55]

kisak:

I need help

[21:46:05]

kisak:

my master backend has changed it's ip

[21:46:32]

kisak:

this is a one-time occurence and the clients are trying to connect to the old IP address

[21:46:49]

iamlindoro_:

So... switch back to the old IP address.

[21:46:51]

kisak:

where in mythconverg is this set?

[21:46:59]

akv:

I just got myself a LCD tv instead of my old tv. But i still only got an analog feed into my mythbox. Are there any way of controlling zoom, cropping and such in mythtv?

[21:47:45]

iamlindoro_:

akv, yes. Cropping is in playback settings, zoom and fill also. You can also change zoom and fill on the fly by pressing M while watching and navigating to the appropriate menu option.

[21:47:53]

|Torg|:

kisak: its in the settings table, it would be easier to go into the BE set and chanbe it then veryify this on all your FEs. Also if you changed the address of mysql change it in the mysql.txt of these boxes

[21:48:14]

akv:

iamlindoro_: cool, i'll check it out :)

[21:48:29]

kisak:

I can handle mysql.txt no problem

[21:49:40]

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[21:50:19]

kisak:

ok, I'm there

[21:50:42]

kisak:

BackendServerIP value in the settings table

[21:50:46]

akv:

iamlindoro_: nice! Any way of toggeling between them quick?

[21:51:05]

iamlindoro_:

akv: W and... ermm.. can't remember the other key off the top of my head

[21:51:21]

akv:

iamlindoro_: as in, how can i get my girlfriend to use it ;)

[21:51:34]

kisak:

|Torg|: is the update command the right command to use to change it?

[21:51:48]

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[21:51:59]

iamlindoro_:

akv, looks like W is it... both zoom and fill

[21:52:17]

iamlindoro_:

cycles through all the possibilities. Map that to a remote key, maybe, for the gf?

[21:52:23]

akv:

iamlindoro_: yea, looks nice

[21:52:30]

akv:

think that is needed :)

[21:52:40]

|Torg|:

kisak no its in the setup program

[21:53:02]

akv:

iamlindoro_: well, thanks! :)

[21:53:07]

iamlindoro_:

akv, np

[21:53:27]

kisak:

|Torg|: mythtv-setup?

[21:56:01]

|Torg|:

kisak: yes

[21:56:21]

kisak:

|Torg|: so this wouldn't just git'r'done? update settings set data = '192.168.1.7' where value = 'BackendServerIP' and hostname = 'mythtv';

[21:58:22]

|Torg|:

kisak yes it would but its better that you dont go directly into the database and update it

[21:59:14]

kisak:

hmm ... it's more of a pain to do ssh X forwarding to fire up mythtv-setup

[21:59:42]

|Torg|:

its also set as MasterServerIP and each other BE and FE has its own entry

[22:00:31]

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[22:01:01]

|Torg|:

and prusing you can ssh into the box ssh -X -C 192.168.1.7 would work to forward the display

[22:01:47]

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[22:02:17]

kisak:

well, I'm in business

[22:02:24]

kisak:

thanks |Torg|

[22:03:36]

kisak:

iamlindoro_: I staticly assigned the server an ip address on the router so that I'll never have a problem in the future, taking it out of the normal ip pool

[22:04:57]

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[22:06:17]

kisak:

|Torg|: after the fact ... I wanted to change it in mysql directly because I decided that's how I was going to fix it and I was being a bit of a stick in the mud

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Andreaz:

Is it possible that mythwelcome ignore lirc ? Just to confirm...

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[23:26:08]

achew22:

does anyone have any resources for setting up firewire with mythtv?

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iamlindoro:

achew22: The wiki firewire page is probably the most complete resource out there

[23:28:09]

achew22:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/FireWire ?

[23:28:24]

iamlindoro:

yes

[23:28:42]

achew22:

thanks

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[23:35:18]

achew22:

would anyone in here be willing to help me out setting up my IEEE 1394 to work with myth?

[23:36:29]

iamlindoro:

achew22: It's going to be unlikely that anyone will volunteer to walk you through every step. Why not try and then ask about any issues you have? Also you are hopefully aware that firewire works for relatively few people.

[23:36:53]

iamlindoro:

The wiki is incredibly step-by-step, I have a hard time believing you can't even *start* without help

[23:38:58]

achew22:

iamlindoro: my stb's diagnostics screen says it is enabled but inactive

[23:39:21]

iamlindoro:

achew22: If that's so then it's very very unlikely you're going to make it do anything w/ myth

[23:39:38]

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[23:39:39]

achew22:

iamlindoro does inactive mean that it won't work or that I'm not actively using it

[23:39:57]

iamlindoro:

you can follow the wiki and try, but I expect you will either get to the plugreport step and find that it doesn't even sense the box, or get to firewire_tester and get no data back from the box

[23:40:07]

achew22:

plugreport http://pastebin.com/m14f9e51b

[23:40:16]

achew22:

that is the only device plugged in

[23:40:20]

iamlindoro:

achew22: Generally in those cases I find that you might be able to change channels, but cannot capture video

[23:40:53]

iamlindoro:

achew22: Then you need to test firewire_tester. If you can get successful stabilization, you have a shot. If none of the settings work, you won't get any video in myth

[23:41:10]

achew22:

firewire_tester is in contrib?

[23:41:25]

iamlindoro:

yes

[23:41:58]

achew22:

g++ the c file?

[23:43:16]

GreyFoxx:

Look at the top of the source file

[23:43:21]

GreyFoxx:

It shows you the command to compiole it

[23:44:34]

achew22:

hrm... is this good? http://pastebin.com/m7f1ef48f

[23:45:05]

iamlindoro:

yes, that's good

[23:45:12]

achew22:

what does it mean?

[23:45:14]

iamlindoro:

So add it as a capture device in myth and see how it goes

[23:45:22]

iamlindoro:

It means the connection is stabilized

[23:45:56]

iamlindoro:

and that test data has passed between the STB and the computer

[23:46:34]

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[23:47:35]

iamlindoro:

You've got a shot of getting video, based on that result... but you won't know until you try, and the firewire_tester results depend on the 5C status of the program. So you may find that all programs work great, you may find that some channels work great, or you may find that certain programs on a channel work great, and others don't... it's kind of a crapshoot

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[23:49:38]

i_is_cat:

i just got mythtv up and running on slackware 12.1 with a pvr 350 and i can cat the input from the pvr 350 to a .mpg file but mythtv wont play it and just goes to a black screen then back to the menu when i select watch tv

[23:49:43]

i_is_cat:

anyone know what is the deal?

[23:50:14]

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[23:50:27]

iamlindoro:

you'd have to check both the frontend and backend logs for clues

[23:51:00]

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[23:51:10]

i_is_cat:

ok i will do that thanks

[23:52:06]

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[23:53:41]

i_is_cat:

cant believe how fast it was to set up this time only a few hours to get slack installed, and lirc, lcdproc and mythtv going compared to like 3 weeks with linuxmce

[23:54:21]

iamlindoro:

!trout linuxmce everything-on-a-cube

[23:54:21]

** MythLogBot slaps linuxmce with a everything-on-a-cube trout on behalf of iamlindoro... **

[23:55:49]

i_is_cat:

we tried various other distros too but the only one that would work properly with all hardware from a fresh install was linuxmce, other distros wouldnt get the nic and sound driver among other things

[23:56:21]

i_is_cat:

slackware 12.1 was released while we were doing this so figured what the hell.. it should be new enough to support this new hardware.. and sure enough it was :D

[23:56:47]

iamlindoro:

You must have some bizarre sound and network gear for, say, mythbuntu not to support it

[23:57:41]

i_is_cat:

nope

[23:57:48]

i_is_cat:

its onboard

[23:57:51]

iamlindoro:

What hardware is that?

[23:57:54]

iamlindoro:

so?

[23:58:07]

i_is_cat:

seems like most distro's we've thrown at this board cant recognize the hardware in it

[23:58:10]

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[23:58:16]

iamlindoro:

Waht's the chipset?

[23:58:16]

i_is_cat:

an lspci shows "unkown device" for everything

[23:59:10]

iamlindoro:

...?

[23:59:35]

i_is_cat:

its a gigabyte ga-73pvm-s2h with an nforce 630i and a 7100 integrated

MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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