| Tuesday, April 8th, 2008, 00:00 UTC | ||
| [00:00:48] | iamlindoro_: | Tanthrix: I record little enough that I really care about archiving that I'll probably only need one for now-- Should get one of the first ones, though, so I'm psyched |
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| [00:01:12] | iamlindoro_: | Tanthrix: I may even tool around with it in Windows while I wait for the support to materialize |
| [00:01:29] | Tanthrix: | Well of course! You couldn't just let it sit there doing nothing.. |
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| [00:01:59] | Tanthrix: | Did you see the sample someone posted from it? It was interlaced so it didn't look that hot to me, but was otherwise ok. |
| [00:02:11] | Tanthrix: | (And mplayer couldn't deal with it, had to use PowerDVD.) |
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| [00:02:28] | iamlindoro_: | Tanthrix: I posted the first sample to the users list-- recent mplayer SVN plays it fine |
| [00:02:43] | Tanthrix: | Yah, I'm way out of date. |
| [00:03:04] | iamlindoro_: | That was just a 9 Mbit CBR stream, so not close to the max, looked pretty good to me |
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| [00:03:35] | Tanthrix: | I doubt bumping up the bitrate will make a big difference. |
| [00:03:46] | Tanthrix: | Past 9–10 mbps, that is. |
| [00:03:56] | iamlindoro_: | If linux drivers *are* available at release and I can even cat /dev/rawh264 or whatever to a file, I may never even bother w/ windows |
| [00:04:13] | Tanthrix: | Indeed. |
| [00:04:21] | iamlindoro_: | Tanthrix: Depends on the source bitrate, really-- If my MPEG-2 source is even close to 19 Mbit, I'd probably set it at the full 13.5 |
| [00:04:58] | iamlindoro_: | For Comcast purposes where most sits between 7–12 Mbit, 6–9 on the HD PVR ought to be just about perfect |
| [00:05:20] | iamlindoro_: | I'll certainly still record everything I can via QAM, of course |
| [00:06:19] | iamlindoro_: | Win MCE is a freakin disaster-- can't play h.264, can't tune QAM... lord, what a POS |
| [00:06:36] | Tanthrix: | hehe |
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| [00:16:30] | [diablo]: | hi, anyone tell me how to use Bob deinterlacing please? |
| [00:18:17] | iamlindoro: | Change the deinterlacer to bob? Or are you asking how to change deinterlacers? |
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| [00:18:53] | [diablo]: | hi iamlindoro |
| [00:19:06] | [diablo]: | yeah, how to change to bob |
| [00:19:24] | iamlindoro: | Utilities/Setup->Setup->TV Settings->Playback, Page 3 (Playback profiles)... edit the rules... deint is on the second page of the profile |
| [00:19:47] | [diablo]: | ah ok thank you kindly |
| [00:19:51] | iamlindoro: | yup |
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| [00:21:42] | spe3c: | Greetings. I had a little mythtv setup on an old VIA Epia board. With mythtv 0.21 I had to upgrade my hardware. So got my new hardware today, but when I play live TV it is choppy. Got an AMD X2 CPU and an AMD 690G motherboard with an ATI x1200 onboard video card. Any thoughts ? |
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| [00:21:57] | quink: | anyone here using mythweb and familiarw ith it? I need help...still |
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| [00:23:06] | darkfrog: | Hey guys, I seem to be having a pretty standard problem when trying to burn a DVD in MythArchive I get a "Can't find all required streams" from mythreplex. The same exact file worked before 0.21 upgrade. Anyone know if there's a fix for this? See http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/ . . . eams;#327982 for other references. |
| [00:23:11] | iamlindoro: | spe3c: MythTV isn't supported w/ ATI |
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| [00:24:32] | spe3c: | iamlindoro: wow, figured I would only run into issues if doing something complicated vith the video card |
| [00:24:36] | Tanthrix: | iamlindoro: Well, I think I've made my decision. Once I get all the new HD channels that I'm supposed to be getting, and the HD PVR is supported under myth, I'll buy it. For now, I'm going to chicken out. |
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| [00:24:47] | iamlindoro: | Tanthrix: wimp! |
| [00:24:56] | ** Tanthrix hangs his head in shame ** | |
| [00:25:11] | iamlindoro: | spe3c: For ATI under linux, making pictures on the screen is complicated ;) |
| [00:25:38] | Tanthrix: | spe3c: You might try playing with different video decoders and interlacers, but really nvidia is the only game in town for linux. |
| [00:26:13] | Tanthrix: | spe3c: Playing back some recorded video with mplayer is also a good test – if it doesn't work well in mplayer, it definately won't work well in myth. |
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| [00:28:01] | spe3c: | ooh found something on the wiki... hopefully it will help |
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| [00:32:10] | spe3c: | I will take a look at the mplayer testing too, thank you for the info. |
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| [00:33:31] | quink: | anyone? Mythweb? |
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| [00:33:54] | iamlindoro: | quink: It's useless to ask to ask... just ask ffs |
| [00:34:10] | quink: | Well if no one here is familiar with the install of it then whats the point of asking? |
| [00:34:26] | ** iamlindoro rolls his eyes ** | |
| [00:35:01] | fryfrog: | you *are* in a mythtv help channel, and mythweb *is* a part of myth :/ |
| [00:35:04] | JohnMahowald: | If no one's familar with it no one will answer the question |
| [00:35:25] | iamlindoro: | quink: Literally dozens of people in this room are familiar with the install of mythweb and hundreds of other aspects of myth... literally 0 of us are going to jump forward and beg to be the one to help... ask and if someone is inclined, they will help |
| [00:35:32] | fryfrog: | even if no one watching the screen when you say "does anyone know mythweb" knows mythweb doesn't mean that in 10 min someone who *does* know mythweb won't look at the screen. |
| [00:35:48] | JohnMahowald: | It may be polite but asking to ask is not efficient |
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| [00:36:19] | quink: | ah. wait i may have figured it out anyways. |
| [00:36:20] | quink: | hah |
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| [00:43:30] | [diablo]: | ok thanks for the info got bob working |
| [00:43:34] | [diablo]: | bb tomorrow |
| [00:43:35] | [diablo]: | nite |
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| [01:29:17] | iamlindoro_: | mkrufky: Ordered one of your pretties early this morning ;) |
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| [01:30:59] | mkrufky: | yikes |
| [01:31:17] | mkrufky: | hehe,... cool, |
| [01:31:26] | mkrufky: | i know you've been waiting for the opportunity |
| [01:31:33] | iamlindoro_: | True true |
| [01:31:55] | iamlindoro_: | Allow me to be the first to suggest /dev/rawh264 as the dev node of choice |
| [01:32:00] | mkrufky: | i hear those are supposed to ship at a very ballsy surprisingly early date |
| [01:32:04] | ajh: | so this Soundgraph Imon device is showing up as usb:4:4 and vendor:device as 15c2:ffdc but I'm really not having much luck getting lirc to talk to it. |
| [01:32:20] | mkrufky: | iamlindoro_: i am totally not working on the linux driver |
| [01:32:31] | mkrufky: | so, the suggestion is lost on me :-) |
| [01:32:33] | ajh: | got the LCDd working though :) |
| [01:32:33] | iamlindoro_: | mkrufky: I know, but that's never stopped me running my mouth |
| [01:32:47] | mkrufky: | i dont want anybody to even think im working on such a thing |
| [01:33:02] | mkrufky: | i know how to use the thing |
| [01:33:06] | mkrufky: | and i know how the IR works |
| [01:33:18] | mkrufky: | beyond that — no clue what happens inside that box, lol |
| [01:33:26] | ajh: | any hints how to access it would be appreciated. |
| [01:33:29] | mkrufky: | all i know is nice video in a small pipe |
| [01:33:44] | iamlindoro_: | mkrufky: I know, you're just the only person I've got to yammer at |
| [01:34:01] | mkrufky: | i knwo... and this was my first chance to deny any association to it, lol |
| [01:34:07] | mkrufky: | so there |
| [01:34:13] | mkrufky: | and i finally have one, here!! yay! |
| [01:34:23] | mkrufky: | so i will have some recordings for my living room |
| [01:34:35] | iamlindoro_: | mkrufky: I note you haven't denied knowing who *is* working on the linux driver ;) |
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| [01:35:40] | mkrufky: | ...got disconnected, did i miss anything>? |
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| [01:35:46] | iamlindoro: | what the... |
| [01:35:57] | kslater: | neither of you missed anything |
| [01:36:02] | mkrufky: | er, thats wierd... somebody impersonating u? |
| [01:36:03] | iamlindoro: | me too... at the exact same moment... what are the odds of that? |
| [01:36:22] | iamlindoro: | I think the NSA wants to suppress the HD PVR |
| [01:36:29] | kslater: | mkrufky: did you say you already have a PVR-HD? |
| [01:36:33] | mkrufky: | something's shady |
| [01:36:38] | mkrufky: | no, i dont have on |
| [01:36:39] | mkrufky: | one |
| [01:37:05] | califdreas: | you got two even? :O |
| [01:37:13] | mkrufky: | yeah, i probably should go |
| [01:37:18] | mkrufky: | talk to you guys later |
| [01:37:30] | iamlindoro: | awww |
| [01:37:31] | iamlindoro: | I stop |
| [01:37:40] | iamlindoro: | no need to go, conversation over |
| [01:37:45] | mkrufky: | nah, thats not fair |
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| [01:37:56] | mkrufky: | just because im mean shouldnt stop people from talking about what they want |
| [01:38:01] | mkrufky: | im going to go |
| [01:38:09] | mkrufky: | ... i'll be in #linuxtv , and i'll drop by later |
| [01:38:12] | iamlindoro: | naw naw, there's no need |
| [01:38:13] | mkrufky: | bye |
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| [01:38:19] | califdreas: | lol. curiosity got the best of iamlindoro. |
| [01:38:34] | iamlindoro: | not at all, have been talking about it w/ him for months |
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| [01:39:31] | iamlindoro: | ha |
| [01:39:32] | califdreas: | i guessed so. everyone seems very eager to check that hd-pvr out. |
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| [01:40:01] | not_krufky: | hello |
| [01:40:06] | not_krufky: | i have this hvr1600 thing |
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| [01:40:12] | not_krufky: | it suddenly works in linux |
| [01:40:15] | not_krufky: | analog AND digital |
| [01:40:19] | not_krufky: | did you know that? |
| [01:40:41] | califdreas: | indeed, Ii did know that |
| [01:40:44] | not_krufky: | (stoth got digital working this weekend) |
| [01:40:48] | ** not_krufky playing ** | |
| [01:40:48] | iamlindoro: | not_krufky: Does that mean I have to stop swatting people seeking to use it w/ MythTV? |
| [01:40:58] | not_krufky: | umm... |
| [01:41:14] | not_krufky: | swat people that have a model # other than 74041 and want to watch QAM with it |
| [01:41:20] | not_krufky: | ... or 74021 |
| [01:41:26] | not_krufky: | .... all the rest are atsc-only |
| [01:42:11] | iamlindoro: | meh, I can still stomp the dude who comes in here biweekly trying to get his HVR-1500 expresscard rebadge thingie working and bitching that it's myth's fault |
| [01:42:33] | not_krufky: | oh, those work too |
| [01:42:43] | not_krufky: | but digital only |
| [01:42:46] | califdreas: | the hvr-1600 now works just like any other dvb adaptor in mythtv. You have to look for other victims. |
| [01:42:50] | not_krufky: | and the 1500Q ssupports qam |
| [01:43:06] | iamlindoro: | yeah, I know, but the whole "experimental driver" business is lost on him |
| [01:43:15] | not_krufky: | lost on who? |
| [01:43:32] | iamlindoro: | The dude who keeps complaining about it, biweekly |
| [01:43:38] | not_krufky: | 1500 / 1500q already supported in mainline |
| [01:43:53] | not_krufky: | hvr950q is also supported in linux, and its not even in stores yet! |
| [01:44:08] | iamlindoro: | not_krufky: K. Now get my Kworld 120 working ;) |
| [01:44:17] | iamlindoro: | </kidding> |
| [01:44:17] | not_krufky: | hvr1950 too... and now i sound like a commercial, so i'll stop |
| [01:44:25] | not_krufky: | kworld 120 — easy! |
| [01:44:42] | not_krufky: | pull from http://linuxtv.org/hg/v4l-dvb |
| [01:44:44] | ** iamlindoro picks it up from the shelf under the desk and waggles it ** | |
| [01:44:45] | not_krufky: | its supported now |
| [01:44:53] | not_krufky: | support should be in 2.6.26 |
| [01:44:54] | califdreas: | it *is* kind of annoying that a lot of these new devices are not/a little/not yet supported in linux. and for someone new to the whole linux thingie that gets overwhelming quickly. |
| [01:45:17] | not_krufky: | no new device will _ever_ be supported out of the box, so long as the vendors dont help with the development |
| [01:45:19] | iamlindoro: | hrm, interesting, It may actually be able to drop it in my other box, I pulled from hg last week |
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| [01:45:52] | not_krufky: | when a vendor doesnt care about linux, that means that a driver wont appear until an obsessed maniac like me gets the device |
| [01:45:59] | iamlindoro: | meh, I don't really need any more tuners in the box, there's nothing worth watching as it is |
| [01:46:18] | not_krufky: | ... and this obsessed maniac now works for a company that gives him free hardware months before its released......... |
| [01:46:27] | iamlindoro: | oh, rub it in, thanks |
| [01:46:44] | iamlindoro: | 17 days to LOST |
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| [01:46:52] | not_krufky: | (thats how that stuff usually able to be supported by the distro kernels out of the box) |
| [01:47:08] | not_krufky: | ji yeon / meet kevin johnson next thursday caption episodes |
| [01:47:13] | not_krufky is now known as mkrufky | |
| [01:47:21] | iamlindoro: | I can't watch those, too distracting and nothing really worth gleaning |
| [01:47:22] | mkrufky: | hey, i watch lost, too |
| [01:47:27] | iamlindoro: | har har |
| [01:47:33] | califdreas: | not_krufky: I know (more or less) about the reasons for the lack of drivers. Does not make it any easier for the "end user". |
| [01:47:40] | iamlindoro: | I do love Ji Yeon, though... may be my favorite of the show, ever |
| [01:47:46] | mkrufky: | blame the vendor |
| [01:47:47] | mkrufky: | always |
| [01:47:59] | mkrufky: | they have the option to contribute to open source, but they dont |
| [01:48:23] | mkrufky: | they have the option to help users make said contributions..... some do, some dont |
| [01:48:55] | mkrufky: | anyway... . it fine for me this way ... the less support there is, the more support i can provide :-) |
| [01:49:29] | califdreas: | i usually stay away from manufacurers that don't support linux. |
| [01:50:24] | califdreas: | doesn't make sense to buy shiny new hardware and let it gather dust on the shelf |
| [01:51:01] | mkrufky: | write a driver! |
| [01:51:36] | califdreas: | I can write an essay. |
| [01:51:42] | califdreas: | even translate it. |
| [01:51:52] | califdreas: | but not a pice of software :( |
| [01:51:57] | califdreas: | piece. |
| [01:56:26] | ** iamlindoro watches the end of "Ji Yeon" again ** | |
| [01:57:06] | mkrufky: | awww |
| [01:57:36] | mkrufky: | well, maybe i'll watch BSG — i started watching this weekend, now im up to episode 2 |
| [01:57:50] | iamlindoro: | Off to a slow start ;) |
| [01:57:59] | iamlindoro: | Hope you are watching the HD version if you can |
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| [02:00:33] | TelnetManta: | BSG is awesome |
| [02:00:38] | TelnetManta: | hate its going away :-( |
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| [02:05:09] | ajh: | ok, I hadn't loaded lirc_dev along with lirc_imon, loaded now and I see the IR device opening and closing when I run lirc but irw still shows nothing :( |
| [02:06:02] | mkrufky: | HD version ?? |
| [02:06:10] | mkrufky: | im watching on a DVD |
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| [02:07:23] | slug: | hello |
| [02:07:30] | mikeones: | anyone reccomend a filesytem format for servering files via nfs that is running on a raid? |
| [02:07:49] | slug: | installed mythtv but now when i try to setup it tells me that it can not logon to database |
| [02:08:01] | slug: | do i have to manually create the db |
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| [02:08:48] | fryfrog: | mikeones: any fs should be fine, i use xfs for my big raid array |
| [02:08:59] | fryfrog: | but in theory, nothing is *horrible* about jfs, ext3, etc |
| [02:09:07] | mikeones: | ok |
| [02:09:11] | mikeones: | thanks fryfrog |
| [02:09:16] | fryfrog: | np :) |
| [02:09:30] | mikeones: | I was leaning towards xfs.. I will go with it |
| [02:09:39] | ajh: | so I get /dev/lirc0 which is where the kernel module says it should be, 61,0, but irw still shows nothing... any pointers? |
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| [02:10:06] | slug: | any idea guys ..? |
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| [02:11:13] | ajh: | is there a specific driver I need to set before irw will see something? |
| [02:12:26] | iamlindoro: | ajh, irw won't do anything without a properly configured lircd.conf... mode2 is your better bet until then |
| [02:13:17] | ajh: | iamlindoro, ahh... now for an RCA universal any suggestion on which lircd.conf to try? |
| [02:13:48] | ajh: | oh, that's a tool :) ok looking. |
| [02:13:48] | iamlindoro: | ajh: nope, first get output in mode2 and if you get some, you can either record one with irrecord or search the remote db at lirc.org |
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| [02:15:51] | ajh: | thanks, that's what I thought irw did. |
| [02:16:30] | iamlindoro: | nope, just registers keypresses so long as they match button definitions in lircd.conf |
| [02:17:04] | ajh: | ok, knowing that things make more sense. Mode2 isn't seeing anything either though :( |
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| [02:17:43] | ajh: | ran the entire tv code set |
| [02:19:19] | iamlindoro: | ajh: mode2 spits out any ir it sees, regardless of button/codeset |
| [02:19:41] | iamlindoro: | sometimes you have to explicitly state device, though, so look at the --help options |
| [02:19:59] | ajh: | yeah, I did that... |
| [02:20:25] | ajh: | I'm wondering if this Fusion has the logic but not the actual receiver |
| [02:21:03] | ajh: | I get IR port opened when I run anything that hits /dev/lirc0 though |
| [02:23:22] | ajh: | this is getting really frustrating. |
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| [02:31:50] | ajh: | ok, pulled the vfd board out, I don't 'see' an ir receiver |
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| [02:32:17] | ajh: | know if it's supposed to be right on the vfd or somewhere else hanging off? |
| [02:33:10] | ajh: | looks like I'll be soldiering together a serial one tomorrow. |
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| [02:35:50] | slug: | guys i get a error that cuold not connect to master backend server ? how do i fix that |
| [02:36:21] | jams: | ajh- if it's version one of the case there is no receiver, but the knob does run through lirc |
| [02:36:56] | ajh: | jams, it's a VFD-MCE-AT board, any way to tell if it has the IR or not? |
| [02:37:15] | ajh: | the module sure thinks it's opening and closing an IR port. |
| [02:37:58] | jams: | like i said the knob shows up as and lirc device |
| [02:38:49] | ajh: | yeah, I'm seeing that |
| [02:39:16] | ajh: | but I havent' had any luck finding out how to tell if there is actually an IR port or not. |
| [02:39:20] | iamlindoro: | mode2 + turning the knob may give you something |
| [02:39:36] | ajh: | it does |
| [02:39:53] | jams: | your probably do have v1 |
| [02:39:58] | iamlindoro: | IIRC the ir receiver is a little nubbin just to the right of the LCD that is fairly obvious |
| [02:40:03] | J-e-f-f-A: | ajh: I thought you answered that yourself when you pulled out the board, and you didn't see a receiver... |
| [02:40:35] | ajh: | jeff, well if it's behind the glass I woudln't be able to tell visually. |
| [02:41:09] | iamlindoro: | In a strong light you should be able to see it w/o pulling it out |
| [02:41:27] | iamlindoro: | It'll be a little dime-sized window off on its own |
| [02:41:34] | J-e-f-f-A: | ajh: Like jams said, if you don't get anything with mode2, but you do get the volume knob, then there probably isn't one... |
| [02:41:49] | kslater: | slug: you have a separate frontend / backend? |
| [02:41:49] | iamlindoro: | well, not way off on it's own, a few millimeters to the side of the LCD |
| [02:42:08] | aoeu: | can mythtv be used in the client-server model? like have one box with a bunch of tv cards and a bunch of clients that network boot on the tvs? |
| [02:42:13] | iamlindoro: | yup |
| [02:42:19] | slug: | ok |
| [02:42:28] | slug: | I only have one? |
| [02:42:29] | ajh: | ok, I see where the header should be then :( |
| [02:42:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | I've got the opposite problem – I've got an Antec Fusion Black 430, and the IR receive works perfect, but haven't been able to get the LCD to work properly yet... (fancy imon one with graphics and icons) |
| [02:43:01] | iamlindoro: | J-e-f-f-A: Having done it, it's a bit of a pain in the butt-- need to patch/compile LCDProc still, I believe |
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| [02:43:35] | ajh: | yeah, I used the deb package then built my own modules and copied them over the existing ones. |
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| [02:43:40] | ajh: | that finally worked well. |
| [02:43:41] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: Yeah, I dabbled with it for a bit, but it's a test backend atm, so I haven't done much else with it... It will be a frontend in a month or so... |
| [02:44:04] | ajh: | ok, solider up a serial ir receiver tomorrow then if the local electronics show has the bits. |
| [02:44:07] | iamlindoro: | ajh: The silver is the easy one, the black is a different device |
| [02:44:10] | ajh: | thanks for the help. |
| [02:44:48] | iamlindoro: | J-e-f-f-A: Built a myth box for my folks on a black-- ended up actually pulling the plug on the LCD because it is SO freaking bright |
| [02:45:39] | J-e-f-f-A: | ajh: Yeah, the silver one is a Character VFD that emulates a standard LCD — the Black case is a graphical LCD, with lots of extra icons... Which currently aren't supported in the lircd driver... |
| [02:45:41] | ajh: | isn't it adjustable? |
| [02:45:54] | jams: | yeah i never understood why they used different devices |
| [02:46:03] | iamlindoro: | Even at minimum backlight it was still blinding |
| [02:46:18] | ajh: | I will never try to understand the Taiwanese. |
| [02:46:38] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: yeah, I adjusted it with the software on my winblows system... Also to verify that the thing worked... (Since I was having such a bugger of a time getting it to work in Linux, even following a howto for gentoo...) |
| [02:47:04] | ajh: | hell, I got to watch the whole Netwinder fiasco up close and I couldn't understand their choices either. |
| [02:47:30] | iamlindoro: | J-e-f-f-A: Took me a good few tries to get it going properly... was actually working on that box a bit today and looking at some of the stuff I kludged together for them wondering what I was thinking |
| [02:47:39] | slug: | how do i repopulate mydb |
| [02:47:52] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: And it stays on when you turn the box off... I'll probably re-wire mine to shut off the backlight if the machine is off. (In the winblows world, it tells the lcd to display a clock when powered off, but it is not very accurate!) |
| [02:48:06] | slug: | it is something like mythfieldbackend |
| [02:48:29] | aoeu: | how many tv cards can mythtv use at once? |
| [02:48:43] | aoeu: | and what kind of harware do i need on the server end? |
| [02:48:45] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: Any many as you want/can fit in as mny backends as you have |
| [02:49:23] | iamlindoro: | And presuming you are using hardware encoder cards/digital tuners, you don't need much power on the backend at all-- frontends do most of the work |
| [02:49:51] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: And if you have hardware encoder cards (for analog), or digital cards, then your backend can be minimal... Unless you want to transcode to other formats or want commercial flagging to be fast... |
| [02:49:53] | aoeu: | also can mythtv access videos outside of its system? |
| [02:49:54] | nevyn: | iamlindoro: you need more io bandwidth than you can get tho |
| [02:50:27] | aoeu: | how accurately can it flag commercials? |
| [02:50:29] | nevyn: | iamlindoro: 4 streams + 2 transcodes kills the io to my backend |
| [02:50:34] | nevyn: | aoeu: moderatly |
| [02:50:42] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: Yeah, but realistically, most motherboards have at most 5 pci slots — many of the new ones only have 1 to 3... |
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| [02:50:53] | nevyn: | J-e-f-f-A: usb tuners |
| [02:51:08] | nevyn: | you won |
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| [02:51:14] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: I can record 10+ things at once across four tuners w/o issue onto the same drive-- sounds like you may be maxing out USB IO |
| [02:51:24] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: I've seen it darn close to perfect in the last year or so... |
| [02:51:43] | nevyn: | iamlindoro: 3x pci + transcodes == can't stream hd to a remote frontend |
| [02:51:48] | ** aoeu can't watch tv without the commercials ** | |
| [02:51:59] | aoeu: | it takes away the whole viewing experience |
| [02:52:00] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: Surprising, I have no such issue |
| [02:52:01] | nevyn: | it can't get bits off the rust fast enough |
| [02:52:13] | nevyn: | 4x 500g hdd in md0_r5 |
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| [02:52:45] | GreyFoxx: | nevyn: weird. I can do 8 recordings on my slave (writing to my masters nfs store) and 4 recordings on the master all while streaming HDTV to a frontend |
| [02:52:46] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: wow... I've got 3 Hauppauge tuners, 2 HD tuners (US ATSC), and can record on all and stream at the same time... of course I'm running an AMD 64 X2 4600+ w/2GB ram too, that always helps... |
| [02:52:48] | slug: | how can test my capture card |
| [02:53:26] | nevyn: | J-e-f-f-A: this is a core2 with 2gig/ram |
| [02:55:01] | aoeu: | what formats can mythtv stream in? |
| [02:55:01] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: Then something's not configured right... I'm running 3x500GB in a software raid5 too... haven't had any issues, even with all 5 cards recording and streaming and commercial flagging... |
| [02:55:34] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: Not sure what you mean, myth streams in whatever it was recorded as |
| [02:55:39] | ajh: | Ah, good my board does have a serial header on it, just not a back port. Has anyone here done a hand-wired serial IR receiver? |
| [02:55:46] | aoeu: | GreyFoxx, oh |
| [02:55:50] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: It streams the video in it's recorded format to either a local or remote frontend systems, and there's a flash video streamer in the web interface. |
| [02:55:57] | aoeu: | what about for watching live tv? |
| [02:55:57] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: usually mpeg2 |
| [02:56:02] | aoeu: | does it stream that too? |
| [02:56:03] | nevyn: | J-e-f-f-A: you recording HD or SD? |
| [02:56:04] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: depends on your source |
| [02:56:07] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: yup |
| [02:56:15] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: Both... 3x SD – 2x HD. |
| [02:56:56] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: I've recorded 4x HD and a handful of SD at the same time, while streaming to another frontend and recording from a slave backend onto the same drive via NFS... never a hiccup |
| [02:57:22] | aoeu: | is it smart too? like can hog a whole drive for rewinding live tv, but keep it reasonably clear for recording scheduled recordings? |
| [02:57:31] | iamlindoro: | 'course, I was really *trying* to challenge Myth, there's never that much worth watching on :) |
| [02:57:44] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: it will chop it into seperate files based on when shows start and end |
| [02:57:54] | GreyFoxx: | and will auto expire liveTV to make room for recordings |
| [02:58:18] | slug: | guys i can not find my kworld 115 in the card list any ideas |
| [02:58:20] | slug: | ? |
| [02:58:53] | iamlindoro: | slug: Go to the kworld 115 page on the myth wiki and follow it step by step |
| [02:58:59] | slug: | ok |
| [02:59:07] | aoeu: | also what cards are best? i'm looking for a card without hw mpeg2 and thats booktree compatible? right now i like the old pci hauppauge cards |
| [02:59:24] | iamlindoro: | Those two don't go together ;) |
| [02:59:31] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: why would you want one WITHOUT hardware encoding?!? |
| [02:59:45] | GreyFoxx: | you end up chewing CPU to encode it when you could let the cared do the work |
| [03:00:03] | aoeu: | well i like storing things in formats other than mpeg2 |
| [03:00:04] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: Brooktree = framegrabber (crap) Hauppauge = Hardware MPEG2 = GOOD! |
| [03:00:13] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: no hardware encoder = framegrabber = lamegrabber = bad |
| [03:00:20] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: You can transcode after the recording finishes |
| [03:00:28] | GreyFoxx: | either using mythtranscode, or customer user jobs |
| [03:00:34] | GreyFoxx: | or manually if you rprefer |
| [03:00:39] | ajh: | so if I wanted to just buy a USB IR receiver, any 'better' one to get? |
| [03:00:44] | aoeu: | but then there's quality loss from the transcoding |
| [03:00:58] | Deek: | J-e-f-f-A: Hauppauge are sometimes framegrabbers too, depending on age :) |
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| [03:01:09] | ** J-e-f-f-A eek! ** | |
| [03:01:10] | iamlindoro: | ajh: The mceusb receiver |
| [03:01:12] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: well, you save nothing doing CPU encoding. it will use the same amount of space |
| [03:01:24] | GreyFoxx: | transcoding afterware you can save some |
| [03:01:28] | ** Deek has a WinTV 401 hanging around somewhere ** | |
| [03:01:28] | GreyFoxx: | but not during the recording stage |
| [03:01:59] | GreyFoxx: | besides, diskspace is cheap :) |
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| [03:02:27] | ajh: | ok, thanks, cheap too. |
| [03:02:49] | aoeu: | oh ya, mpeg2 can also record interlaced |
| [03:02:51] | aoeu: | forgot about that |
| [03:03:12] | J-e-f-f-A: | Deek: Actually, I've got an old WinCast/TV board here... circa 1996... (eek!) |
| [03:03:32] | aoeu: | so then what's a good cheap mpeg2 encoding card? |
| [03:03:44] | Deek: | WinTV-PVR 150/250/500 |
| [03:03:47] | GreyFoxx: | the hauppahe PVR cards |
| [03:03:53] | GreyFoxx: | go for a 150/500 |
| [03:03:59] | aoeu: | i have a wintv pvr 150, but it doesn't like to play nice with others |
| [03:04:00] | GreyFoxx: | 500 = 2 150's on a single card |
| [03:04:04] | ** aoeu can't figure it out ** | |
| [03:04:06] | ajh: | hey, can you transcode dvb-s streams and de-interlace them at that point? |
| [03:04:19] | ajh: | and scale, etc |
| [03:04:29] | J-e-f-f-A: | Yep ^^^ I 'third' those suggestions... ;-) (I have one of each... but just the PVR-250 and PVR-500 in my backend now) |
| [03:04:46] | ajh: | would it be enough cpu savings on playback to make sense?> |
| [03:04:53] | aoeu: | i was using it with windows though |
| [03:04:57] | Deek: | ajh: not with mythtranscode, the deinterlace filters don't seem to work with it |
| [03:05:02] | aoeu: | maybe its much more compatible on linux than windows |
| [03:05:08] | ajh: | but in theory it should be ok? |
| [03:05:11] | J-e-f-f-A: | ajh: umm... DVB-S is a completly different animal... |
| [03:05:55] | J-e-f-f-A: | (that is, than happauge... oops, got you mixed up with aoeu for a minute...) !trout me! |
| [03:06:18] | J-e-f-f-A: | !trout J-e-f-f-A|work |
| [03:06:18] | ** MythLogBot slaps J-e-f-f-A|work with a trout on behalf of J-e-f-f-A... ** | |
| [03:06:19] | iamlindoro: | !trout J-e-f-f-A for not being hooked on phonicss |
| [03:06:19] | ** MythLogBot slaps J-e-f-f-A with a for not being hooked on phonicss trout on behalf of iamlindoro... ** | |
| [03:06:40] | J-e-f-f-A: | hehe ;-) |
| [03:06:42] | Deek: | an infobot? |
| [03:06:52] | Deek: | (ish) |
| [03:06:53] | iamlindoro: | Gosh, wouldn't THAT be nice, nope, just a trout bot |
| [03:07:00] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: I tried to slap myself, but instead slapped myself at work! ;-) |
| [03:07:05] | aoeu: | hey! what's wrong with hooked on phonics? |
| [03:07:09] | iamlindoro: | !bitrateMattersYouDummy |
| [03:07:14] | iamlindoro: | see? Doesn't work |
| [03:07:16] | iamlindoro: | ;) |
| [03:07:24] | Deek: | ahh, I got an infobot over in #gnustep/sidestep |
| [03:07:47] | Deek: | (well, blootbot technically) |
| [03:10:01] | aoeu: | ugh, it's impossible to find a new board with lots of 32 bit pci slots |
| [03:10:36] | iamlindoro: | more or less true-- Full ATX is your best bet for that |
| [03:10:40] | ajh: | ok, I'm out of touch with media support, but I'm assuming dropping in a bluray/hd-dvd drive is not enoght to play them yet with myth? |
| [03:10:45] | J-e-f-f-A: | iamlindoro: We should see if Beirdo would setup an 'infobot', so we could send people to the wiki with a simple "!wiki nic-name" command and such... |
| [03:10:47] | Deek: | yup, the newest board I found with six of them could only handle a 1.5GHz Athlon. |
| [03:11:34] | iamlindoro: | ajh: That is correct-- There is an extensive article in the wiki that some handsome genius wrote on ripping them and playing them from mythvideo, including patches for mplayer |
| [03:11:36] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: The best one I've found so far is expensive — DFI LANPARTY — iirc, it's got 4 pci slots... |
| [03:12:03] | ajh: | oh, that's better than expected. |
| [03:12:20] | Deek: | iamlindoro: handome genius, eh? I don't recall writing one... |
| [03:12:24] | aoeu: | why is pci going away a lot faster than isa? |
| [03:12:25] | iamlindoro: | MOAR DISKSPACE |
| [03:12:28] | Deek: | :) |
| [03:12:31] | J-e-f-f-A: | But it's like $190... |
| [03:12:34] | ajh: | still not worth the $250 drive yet though with a PS3 sitting here :) |
| [03:12:35] | iamlindoro: | Deek: You're not the only handsome genius in here, sexy ;) |
| [03:12:41] | aoeu: | have people forgotten how many useful pci cards there still are out there? |
| [03:12:49] | iamlindoro: | ajh: You can rip in PS3 linux |
| [03:13:06] | ajh: | or just watch them on the ps3 :) |
| [03:13:28] | iamlindoro: | I can watch all mine from MythVideo and I didn't even have to give Sony money ;) |
| [03:13:44] | Deek: | aoeu: No, but there's a lot more stuff on mobos these days. |
| [03:13:48] | iamlindoro: | well, aside from the implicit licensing fee paid by the manufacturers, I guess |
| [03:13:56] | ajh: | an E2160 for a back-end machine with 10 dvb-s streams coming in seem like enough? |
| [03:14:09] | ajh: | (3 tunes, 3 on each max) |
| [03:14:23] | iamlindoro: | You barely need any CPU for recording digital-- that would be fine |
| [03:14:31] | aoeu: | how much hardware do i need for 5 wintv pvr-150 cards? |
| [03:14:38] | ajh: | cool, need one and $30 sounds good. :) |
| [03:15:02] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: You could just get 2 PVR500's on top of the 150 you have so you only need 3 PCI slots |
| [03:15:15] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: the cpu requirments will be almost 0 |
| [03:15:28] | Deek: | ajh: Two simultaneous hardware recordings only causes my backend to use 0.4% CPU |
| [03:15:38] | Deek: | aoeu even |
| [03:15:39] | aoeu: | and can i adjust the bitrate of the hw encodings? |
| [03:15:39] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: Very little. I would advise you buy any currently-sold desktop-class processor (ie not embedded/low power) and it will be fine |
| [03:16:20] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: Just don't expect that same maching to *play* back everything you throw at it |
| [03:16:34] | iamlindoro: | for SD it would be fine, but HD requires a bit more oomph |
| [03:16:56] | Deek: | My Duron could handle _recording_ 10 simultaneous streams. |
| [03:17:03] | ajh: | deek, yeah at 3 I was at .15 or so. |
| [03:17:05] | aoeu: | it's not going to be playing anything |
| [03:17:15] | ajh: | sometimes it's non-linear though |
| [03:17:38] | aoeu: | will a pentium 3 450 handle 5 cards? |
| [03:17:54] | iamlindoro: | Don't get cocky |
| [03:18:01] | Deek: | heh |
| [03:18:05] | aoeu: | but if it's just the backend |
| [03:18:28] | aoeu: | meh, i'd probably max out the disk controller really quick |
| [03:18:29] | iamlindoro: | I wouldn't want to-- you might want to commercial flag those recordings |
| [03:18:31] | ajh: | nice, then the spare machines lying around can be setup as transcoding/comm slaves |
| [03:18:45] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: one of the devs uses a celeron 333 with 3 or 4 cards in it |
| [03:18:49] | GreyFoxx: | so that shoulod be fine |
| [03:18:57] | ajh: | too bad my Itanic2 died. |
| [03:18:57] | GreyFoxx: | just put in as much ram as you can for disk buffering |
| [03:19:19] | aoeu: | it's a pentium 2 350 right now. i'm thinking of upgrading it |
| [03:19:42] | nevyn: | iamlindoro: how continuously are you recording? |
| [03:19:56] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: can you be more specific? |
| [03:20:11] | slug: | guys where do i find my modules file on suse 10.3 |
| [03:20:14] | nevyn: | in a 24hr period how much do you record in hrs of video? |
| [03:20:17] | slug: | is not under etc |
| [03:20:32] | nevyn: | cause I record ~ 48–50hrs per day. |
| [03:20:44] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: Why do you care? |
| [03:20:45] | ** Deek has never needed to record more than two things at a time ** | |
| [03:21:10] | nevyn: | iamlindoro: I'm wondering if you're not seeing the problem because your ram cache is shielding you from it. |
| [03:21:46] | Deek: | what problem? |
| [03:21:59] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: Can't see why my RAM would be a factor, it's not a resource that is constantly working towards being filled |
| [03:22:34] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: ie if I record 10 things at once, what I recorded the hour before/several hours before has nothing to do with it and no effect |
| [03:22:44] | aoeu: | http://cgi.ebay.com/HAUPPAGE-WinTV-PVR-150-26 . . . photohosting |
| [03:22:55] | aoeu: | lol someone doesn't know they can seperate the 2 cards |
| [03:22:58] | ajh: | ram only helps with the intermittent things. |
| [03:23:02] | aoeu: | so they are selling the whole thing |
| [03:23:09] | jamesd__: | iamlindoro, beccause linux uses ram to cache disk.. and the fastest disks are still glacialy slow compared to cpu and ram |
| [03:23:13] | ajh: | like the syslog writes, make sure you make those async or network |
| [03:23:16] | iamlindoro: | nevyn: But I have recorded for multiple hours at a time with all recorders going with no effect |
| [03:23:23] | nevyn: | ok |
| [03:23:36] | nevyn: | I wonder what's wrong with my setup and my friends then. |
| [03:24:00] | aoeu: | does MCE = media center edition? |
| [03:24:12] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: yes |
| [03:24:15] | nevyn: | usually. |
| [03:24:35] | aoeu: | is it basically the same hardware as the normal 150? |
| [03:25:06] | iamlindoro: | nope, different hardware (different audio inputs and IR is USB versus on-card) |
| [03:25:07] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: What motherboard chipset? |
| [03:25:46] | nevyn: | J-e-f-f-A: intel. |
| [03:25:52] | ** J-e-f-f-A has an Nvidia chipset motherboard.... ** | |
| [03:25:52] | nevyn: | ICH6 |
| [03:26:01] | aoeu: | does the 150 pipe its audio to a sound card to be recorded, or does the card do mpeg2 audio recording too? |
| [03:26:43] | J-e-f-f-A: | aoeu: hardware mpeg encoding, so right into the mpeg. |
| [03:27:09] | ajh: | any major difference where you put your storage, on the master or slave backends? |
| [03:27:35] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: That mighyt have something to do with it — I'd check to see how 'compatible' the particular chipset is with Linux... |
| [03:27:40] | slug: | guys give me a hand i cannot find the modules file in suse 10.3 |
| [03:27:52] | slug: | i am installing a kworld 115 |
| [03:28:06] | J-e-f-f-A: | slug: You'll probably have to use google, most of us don't use suse here... |
| [03:28:12] | slug: | ok |
| [03:28:34] | slug: | what info do i find inside modules so could ask in suse |
| [03:28:34] | nevyn: | J-e-f-f-A: I know it's good (I've been using linux for nearly 10 years I got that bit right. ;) |
| [03:28:41] | ajh: | so I think once I get the IR receiver here and setup, all that's left is adding more tuners and more storage... |
| [03:28:46] | ajh: | that feels good. :) |
| [03:29:01] | ajh: | thanks for the assistance along the way. |
| [03:29:05] | nevyn: | ajh: SPDIF. |
| [03:29:44] | ajh: | nevyn, what about it? |
| [03:31:20] | J-e-f-f-A: | nevyn: But have you been "beating the tar out of it' for that long? Also, your software raid5 will beat you up too... |
| [03:32:02] | ** J-e-f-f-A kicks his winblows machine again... (hanging again... jeepers...) ** | |
| [03:32:03] | nevyn: | ajh: that's my next thing to fix on the frontend |
| [03:32:45] | ajh: | ah, I'm eyeing a Bryston SP2, but I think I'll buy a Defender 110 first :) |
| [03:33:28] | ajh: | their 875HT looks sweet too, but I stack of 2B's or 3B's used will be cheaper. |
| [03:33:48] | aoeu: | what bitrates does the 150 output? |
| [03:34:17] | ajh: | Given they want $5K for the SP2 and $5K for the 875 and you still need speakers. |
| [03:34:19] | GreyFoxx: | aoeu: You set that in your recording profile |
| [03:34:50] | ** GreyFoxx heads to bed ** | |
| [03:34:57] | aoeu: | whats a good setting for 704x480 ntsc interlaced? |
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| [03:35:43] | aoeu: | 1mbit? |
| [03:40:58] | ajh: | 2008-04–07 23:40:36.308 NVP: Prebuffer wait timed out 10 times. |
| [03:41:18] | ajh: | Can anyone explain that a bit? I see it from time to time and end up with a black screen and can't get back to the menu |
| [03:41:18] | iamlindoro: | MOAR MHZ |
| [03:42:03] | ajh: | seems to sit there indefinately too |
| [03:42:22] | iamlindoro: | It's a nonspecific you're-too-slow |
| [03:42:41] | ajh: | that's odd, because there's no way that's true. |
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| [03:43:24] | aoeu: | does mythtv work as well on ppc as it does on x86? |
| [03:43:30] | ** J-e-f-f-A heads to bed too... ZZZZzzzzz..... goodnight iamlindoro... ** | |
| [03:43:37] | iamlindoro: | night J-e-f-f-A! |
| [03:43:56] | ** aoeu likes the older ppc macs better than older x86 machines ** | |
| [03:44:00] | ajh: | aoeu, do the nvidia drivers get released for ppc? |
| [03:44:05] | aoeu: | faster disk controllers :) |
| [03:44:10] | aoeu: | don't card |
| [03:44:12] | aoeu: | *care |
| [03:44:17] | aoeu: | this is for a backend |
| [03:44:43] | ajh: | hrm, I could poke dwmw2 into letting me try it on his G5 in the basement :) |
| [03:44:49] | ajh: | but he may hit me. |
| [03:45:00] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: Not sure how capture cards would work in a ppc machine, but my guess is "not well" |
| [03:45:11] | iamlindoro: | s/well/at all/ |
| [03:45:25] | aoeu: | would they work well in a g3 or g4? |
| [03:45:29] | aoeu: | as long as they are pci |
| [03:45:40] | iamlindoro: | g3/g4 = ppc machines |
| [03:46:30] | iamlindoro: | It would not surprise me in the least if the drivers written for various capture cards were totally incompatible with ppc architecture |
| [03:46:45] | iamlindoro: | in fact, it would surprise me if it were otherwise |
| [03:46:51] | aoeu: | meh, then i'll stick with x86 |
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| [03:47:16] | ajh: | it's more usually a problem getting a pci card with a PC bios to initialize under OpenFirmware |
| [03:48:02] | ajh: | Had tons of problems on AXP with that, most of the other 64-bit and endianness issues have been hammered out now. |
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| [03:55:02] | ajh: | sigh, now I"m getting: 2008-04–07 23:54:11.363 [mpeg2video @ 0x2b41421cc590]Warning MVs not available |
| [03:55:02] | ajh: | and the UI is stuck. |
| [03:55:17] | ajh: | in the watch videos menu too |
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| [03:55:55] | ajh: | came back eventually though. |
| [03:57:51] | ajh: | looks like it's the preview videos. |
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| [04:25:38] | aoeu: | what's the difference between the pvr-150 with two audio rca jacks and a 2.5mm stereo jack? |
| [04:25:56] | aoeu: | just more room for an infrared receiver? |
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| [04:26:53] | aoeu: | http://cgi.ebay.com/Hauppauge-WinTV-PVR-150-T . . . cmdZViewItem |
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| [04:27:05] | aoeu: | http://cgi.ebay.com/HAUPPAGE-WinTV-PVR-150-26 . . . cmdZViewItem |
| [04:27:18] | aoeu: | rca and 2.5mm, respectively (if anyone wanted photos) |
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| [04:28:40] | iamlindoro: | RCA audio is generally a higher quality connector, and the MCE edition (the one w/ RCA) lacks the on-board IR... the MCE one's IR is a seperate USB device |
| [04:29:16] | iamlindoro: | although it appears the guy selling the MCE doesn't intend to sell the remote/IR receiver with it |
| [04:29:24] | ajh: | rca connectors don't lose contact all the time and don't get 'lose' as easy |
| [04:29:54] | ajh: | got fed up with 1/8in on my music system, so went all 1/4 balanced :) |
| [04:29:59] | aoeu: | does the mce one work as well with mythtv as well as the normal one? |
| [04:30:23] | iamlindoro: | Yes, the cards work identically-- the MCE one is the one to buy if you're looking for a good remote/IR receiver |
| [04:30:40] | aoeu: | just looking for cheap cards for a backend |
| [04:30:41] | iamlindoro: | I would buy one where you're getting the remote/USB Ir, though |
| [04:31:09] | iamlindoro: | if you're not looking for a remote/ir receiver/blaster then it doesn't matter for all intents and purposes |
| [04:31:09] | aoeu: | can i buy remotes that work with mythtv? |
| [04:31:15] | iamlindoro: | of course you can |
| [04:31:28] | aoeu: | like that just the clients use |
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| [04:31:42] | iamlindoro: | Yes |
| [04:31:44] | iamlindoro: | of course |
| [04:31:57] | aoeu: | what are they called? |
| [04:32:04] | aoeu: | and can i find them on ebay? |
| [04:32:42] | iamlindoro: | Like I keep saying, buy a PVR-150 that has all its accessories and you'll be getting a USB IR receiver/blaster/remote that will work on any frontend, doesn't need to be on the machine w/ the card |
| [04:32:47] | iamlindoro: | pvr-150 MCE, that is |
| [04:33:17] | iamlindoro: | example: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hauppauge-WinTV-PVR-150-M . . . cmdZViewItem |
| [04:33:25] | clever: | my pvr-150 has the ir receiver/blaster built into the card itself |
| [04:33:31] | clever: | and lirc_i2c now causes a kernel oops |
| [04:34:46] | iamlindoro: | clever: Like I said, he should buy the MCE |
| [04:34:58] | clever: | which is probly 95% identical to what i have |
| [04:35:03] | clever: | except for the receiver |
| [04:35:31] | iamlindoro: | and the audio connections |
| [04:35:39] | clever: | yeah |
| [04:35:58] | iamlindoro: | otherwise, they are identical |
| [04:36:03] | clever: | and my rca->phono cords are all damaged on 1 channel |
| [04:36:08] | clever: | which cuts out if bent |
| [04:36:21] | aoeu: | well if i don't get remotes with the cards, are there other remotes i can buy? |
| [04:36:27] | iamlindoro: | many |
| [04:36:50] | aoeu: | where do i look? |
| [04:36:50] | iamlindoro: | you can make a serial ir receiver, if you want, and use any remote you like |
| [04:37:06] | iamlindoro: | aoeu: why not try the myth wiki before asking people in here? |
| [04:37:10] | aoeu: | ok |
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| [04:42:21] | aoeu: | now what kind of hw do i need on the clients? |
| [04:42:33] | aoeu: | like how much does it take to decode 704x408 mpeg2? |
| [04:42:47] | aoeu: | will at least a p3 500 work? |
| [04:42:49] | iamlindoro: | not much-- why the bizarre resolution? 720x480 is NTSC |
| [04:43:06] | aoeu: | i had a typo, i meant 704x480 |
| [04:43:13] | iamlindoro: | still bizarre |
| [04:43:19] | iamlindoro: | 720x480 |
| [04:43:32] | iamlindoro: | what'd those 16 pixels ever do to you? |
| [04:43:33] | ajh: | Hrm, just me or is network syslog busted on Ubuntu 7.10? |
| [04:43:38] | CCFL_Man2: | iamlindoro: i wish SW here in the US transmitted with digital radio mondiale |
| [04:44:10] | CCFL_Man2: | i mean, hd radio ftl |
| [04:44:47] | iamlindoro: | CCFL_Man2: It wouldn't be the USA if we didn't make up our own standard |
| [04:45:05] | CCFL_Man2: | iamlindoro: i know |
| [04:45:36] | CCFL_Man2: | it's a damn shame |
| [04:45:49] | aoeu: | isn't 4:3 the native aspect ratio for tv? |
| [04:45:55] | CCFL_Man2: | yes |
| [04:46:01] | iamlindoro: | some TV, sure |
| [04:46:44] | aoeu: | so it would be 704x480 for a full 60 fields per second, and 352x240 for 30fps |
| [04:47:00] | aoeu: | and 720x480 would be widescreen dvd |
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| [04:48:28] | CCFL_Man2: | iamlindoro: hd radio sucks balls though, closed, proprietary standard, fcc was obviously paid off |
| [04:48:56] | CCFL_Man2: | actually, same with atsc |
| [04:49:08] | iamlindoro: | I'm out of here, this room goes retarded after 9 PM |
| [04:49:20] | CCFL_Man2: | it's not me, is it? |
| [04:49:34] | iamlindoro: | Nope, you're fine. Night! |
| [04:49:46] | CCFL_Man2: | sweet |
| [04:49:48] | CCFL_Man2: | night |
| [04:50:37] | iamlindoro: | Don't worry, the brits'll be here in 3 hours or so and sanity will return |
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| [04:59:50] | ajh: | what's up with "audio stream changed' 30 times a second? |
| [05:03:05] | Aval0n: | hmm |
| [05:03:31] | Aval0n: | for some reason after I compiled the latest 21-fixes I don't get sound via streaming flash |
| [05:03:37] | Aval0n: | anyone have the same issue? |
| [05:03:51] | xris: | Aval0n: recompile ffmpeg |
| [05:04:44] | Aval0n: | really? |
| [05:04:48] | Aval0n: | it was working before though |
| [05:06:09] | ajh: | anyone else see high phantom loads with LCDd running? |
| [05:06:30] | ajh: | the load average goes up, but none of the visible processes account for it. |
| [05:07:43] | xris: | Aval0n: that's the most common reason for no sound... lack of mp3 support |
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| [05:09:11] | Aval0n: | recompiling now |
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| [05:13:38] | Aval0n: | hwy xris, would mind pasting your result for ffmpeg --version ? |
| [05:13:47] | Aval0n: | so I have what you have enabled |
| [05:14:56] | xris: | Aval0n: you need libmp3lame |
| [05:15:00] | xris: | or whatever your distro calls it |
| [05:15:11] | Aval0n: | Im pretty sure that's in there |
| [05:15:31] | xris: | is it? |
| [05:15:40] | Aval0n: | it was before |
| [05:15:50] | Aval0n: | sound was working on mythweb for a long time |
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| [05:16:43] | Aval0n: | /usr/lib/libmp3lame.so |
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| [05:17:29] | xris: | Aval0n: no.. I mean in your ffmpeg compile string |
| [05:17:36] | xris: | same thing you asked me to paste you. |
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| [05:17:39] | clever: | ajh: i suspect if a program is forking&exiting alot it may evade being see in top/ps but still cause cpu usage |
| [05:17:40] | Aval0n: | right |
| [05:17:46] | xris: | I just happen to know that libmp3lame is the important bit |
| [05:17:59] | xris: | if you have it there, and only have one copy of ffmpeg installed, I don't really have any other ideas. |
| [05:19:16] | Aval0n: | the recompile fixed it |
| [05:19:24] | xris: | :) |
| [05:19:27] | Aval0n: | same config string that was already there |
| [05:19:28] | Aval0n: | heh |
| [05:19:29] | Aval0n: | weird |
| [05:19:39] | olds (olds!n=olds@antitech.xmission.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [05:20:12] | olds: | how do I specify some channels to use the eit data, while others to use the data pulled from schedules direct |
| [05:20:46] | olds: | I tried setting the "useonairguide" value to 1 for the channels I want to use the eit data for |
| [05:20:49] | olds: | but with no success |
| [05:21:04] | xris: | olds: I believe it just uses them both if it has both |
| [05:21:18] | xris: | can always delete the xmltvid from the db for channels you don't want SD data to affect. |
| [05:21:19] | olds: | and just overwrites each other? |
| [05:21:27] | olds: | hmmm |
| [05:21:28] | olds: | true |
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| [05:23:38] | olds: | yea, seems like that should work thx |
| [05:24:33] | ajh: | yeah, and there's steady disc access without anything looking it it's doingit |
| [05:25:13] | ** xris pours some scotch to help with work for SD ** | |
| [05:25:16] | ajh: | ok, that was the local myth backend |
| [05:26:02] | olds: | I guess I wonder now what my mythtv is using to pull data from |
| [05:26:07] | olds: | SD or eit |
| [05:26:07] | ajh: | does having a backend process running on a frontend box make sense? |
| [05:26:32] | olds: | like mythbackend and mythfrontend on the same box? |
| [05:26:38] | ajh: | no |
| [05:26:42] | olds: | oh |
| [05:26:51] | Deek: | yes, it makes sense. |
| [05:27:04] | ajh: | is it needed or is it optional? |
| [05:27:17] | Deek: | the frontend runs the backend to generate thumbnails. |
| [05:28:18] | ajh: | for hitting the disc constantly that seems excessive |
| [05:28:23] | Deek: | when the thumbnail is done generating it exits |
| [05:28:39] | ajh: | I mean the one started on boot. |
| [05:29:00] | Deek: | why do you have it starting on boot? |
| [05:29:17] | ajh: | it defaulted that way from the package, so that's why I'm asking :) |
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| [05:29:37] | Deek: | what package? |
| [05:29:42] | ajh: | on ubuntu |
| [05:29:53] | Deek: | what, you just installed "mythtv"? |
| [05:30:07] | Deek: | silly people. |
| [05:30:36] | Deek: | just install mythtv-frontend and the plugins you want. |
| [05:31:08] | ajh: | I originally built it from svn but had issues scanning channels. |
| [05:31:32] | ajh: | I think I know why that was now though, so hopefully I can move back to that soon. |
| [05:38:05] | ajh: | OK, that fixed the load issue, thanks :) |
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| [05:43:11] | ajh: | ugh, from time to time I'm getting X windows behind the frontend showing through in a kinda semi-transparent bleedthrough... not all the time though. |
| [05:44:06] | Dagmar: | So you should be asking yourself, why am I running this with Compiz in the first place. |
| [05:45:06] | ajh: | I very well probably should be. |
| [05:45:21] | ajh: | how does one make that go away? :) |
| [05:46:31] | ajh: | OK, could that have been causing other oddness too? |
| [05:47:59] | ajh: | thanks btw. |
| [05:53:20] | Dagmar: | Mainly you just cull it from the xorg.conf |
| [06:03:39] | ajh: | I don't see it referenced in there. |
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| [06:17:39] | hardkrash: | evening folks, has anyone noticed the stretch mode for video playback is different from 0.20.x? |
| [06:21:13] | Dagmar: | Why yes, it is. |
| [06:21:18] | Dagmar: | It's acutally useful |
| [06:21:32] | Dagmar: | Try pressing ctrl-W instead |
| [06:22:48] | hardkrash: | i didn't see any documentation on the change of w vs crtl-w |
| [06:23:12] | hardkrash: | what is it changing? |
| [06:23:26] | Dagmar: | Try it and find out. |
| [06:23:44] | hardkrash: | I did... i asked what setting it was changing.... |
| [06:24:01] | Aval0n: | anyone have a script that will restart mythfrontend if it crashes? |
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| [06:25:16] | Dagmar: | ctrl-alt-bksp works well enough. |
| [06:25:35] | Aval0n: | not on a system without a keyboard :) |
| [06:25:48] | Aval0n: | I just /etc/init.d/gdm stop/start |
| [06:25:49] | Aval0n: | hehehe |
| [06:25:49] | hardkrash: | #!/bin/bash |
| [06:25:57] | hardkrash: | while true |
| [06:25:59] | Aval0n: | but I just want something for when I'm not home and my wife crashes it |
| [06:26:00] | hardkrash: | do |
| [06:26:04] | hardkrash: | mythfrontend |
| [06:26:06] | hardkrash: | done |
| [06:26:12] | Dagmar: | So learn about how init works and put that to use. |
| [06:26:22] | Dagmar: | You don't need GDM for an appliance box. |
| [06:26:51] | Aval0n: | I want her to be able to login as a user |
| [06:26:52] | Aval0n: | and use gnome |
| [06:27:03] | Aval0n: | multi function htpc |
| [06:27:13] | Dagmar: | So she's logging in without a keyboard. |
| [06:27:23] | Aval0n: | no |
| [06:27:28] | hardkrash: | talented, mind link? |
| [06:27:31] | Aval0n: | I have it setup with gdm now |
| [06:27:32] | fryfrog: | Aval0n: cron job |
| [06:27:36] | Dagmar: | Then why can't she use ctrl-alt-bksp? |
| [06:27:40] | Aval0n: | she hasn't gotten the kb in yet |
| [06:27:46] | fryfrog: | Aval0n: very easy, like "if pgrep mythfrontend; then mythfrontend |
| [06:27:50] | Aval0n: | i ordered her a logitech htpc keyboard |
| [06:27:53] | Deek: | mingetty --autologin |
| [06:27:54] | fryfrog: | set it to run ever minute |
| [06:27:58] | Dagmar: | Okay, the problem here is that your design goals are stupid. |
| [06:28:02] | fryfrog: | then, if fe ever crashes, it fires up in 1 min |
| [06:28:17] | Aval0n: | fryfrog thanks |
| [06:28:27] | hardkrash: | i put a script here that will do it |
| [06:28:36] | fryfrog: | i could give you my specific script if you want |
| [06:28:52] | Aval0n: | i want to make sure it runs as user mythtv |
| [06:28:55] | Aval0n: | fryfrog sure thanks |
| [06:29:25] | Dagmar: | So, you want her to login, without a keyboard, and you want it to run the frontend as someone else? |
| [06:29:37] | Aval0n: | no |
| [06:29:38] | Aval0n: | lol |
| [06:29:51] | Aval0n: | eventually I want her to be able to use a wireless kb with it |
| [06:29:58] | fryfrog: | http://pastebin.ca/976508 |
| [06:30:01] | Aval0n: | by default the machine boots and auto logs in as mythtv |
| [06:30:16] | Dagmar: | So again, you don't need GDM for that. |
| [06:30:25] | Aval0n: | I'm still getting mythtv where it needs to be before I worry about her using gnome |
| [06:30:26] | hardkrash: | while true; do mythfrontend; done |
| [06:30:27] | Deek: | 7:2:respawn:/sbin/mingetty --autologin mythtv tty7 |
| [06:30:32] | Deek: | done |
| [06:30:34] | fryfrog: | i use ubuntu, the script is run from "mythtv" user via cron, and also those specific commands are in sudo |
| [06:30:38] | Dagmar: | If the machine is going to act as an appliance, running a login manager of any kind if useless. |
| [06:30:42] | fryfrog: | the problem with *those* solutions is many-fold |
| [06:30:43] | hardkrash: | deek you win on init :-) |
| [06:30:59] | fryfrog: | it makes it *really* hard to not log in as mythtv |
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| [06:31:20] | Aval0n: | thanks fryfrog |
| [06:31:21] | fryfrog: | and the gdm login manager, when set to auto login is barely seen |
| [06:31:27] | Dagmar: | I just hacked up rc.4 to su – mythtv mythfrontend |
| [06:31:36] | Aval0n: | hard; while true |
| [06:31:43] | Aval0n: | wouldn't that mean if it IS running start it? |
| [06:32:01] | Dagmar: | fryfrog: It's still a pretty massive waste of system resources tho |
| [06:32:01] | Deek: | while true just means do it forever. |
| [06:32:15] | Dagmar: | GDM is going to bring in the whole gtk+ kit, which is something that Myth can't use at all |
| [06:32:32] | fryfrog: | ohz noz, my dual core cheap as 4200 X2 w/ 1G of ram is wasting some reasources! :p |
| [06:32:52] | hardkrash: | ok..... more bash |
| [06:32:53] | Aval0n: | deek even if it's already started? |
| [06:33:02] | Dagmar: | It's also rather _pointless_ to involve GDM in the process. |
| [06:33:03] | fryfrog: | i might re-think the setup if i noticed that gdm was impacting performance |
| [06:33:06] | ** Deek smacks the crap out of Aval0n ** | |
| [06:33:09] | fryfrog: | but i use gdm to launch fluxbox, so who cares |
| [06:33:19] | Aval0n: | lol |
| [06:33:32] | fryfrog: | i *do* agree that using gdm to launch gnome to luanch myth is a waste |
| [06:33:33] | Aval0n: | myth's performance is fine with gdm running |
| [06:33:35] | Aval0n: | before I just used openbox |
| [06:33:37] | Dagmar: | It won't impact performance beyond making it take longer for the system to start, but it's still utterly pointless on an appliance-centric install. |
| [06:33:43] | Aval0n: | and skipped gdm all together |
| [06:33:56] | Dagmar: | GDM simply brings *nothing* useful over. |
| [06:33:56] | Aval0n: | but I want her to be able to log out and login with gdm and use firefox |
| [06:34:21] | fryfrog: | though, with your method, you don't have to wait ~60 seconds when myth crashes/exits |
| [06:34:26] | fryfrog: | so that is nice |
| [06:34:33] | Dagmar: | Avalon: So I'd just put in a session file that starts mythfrontend then and make that the default for the user |
| [06:34:41] | Dagmar: | er for the myth user |
| [06:34:45] | Aval0n: | I have that |
| [06:34:50] | Aval0n: | it logs in and starts just fine |
| [06:34:57] | Aval0n: | but it occasionally crashes |
| [06:35:04] | Aval0n: | so I wanted it to auto start back up |
| [06:35:10] | Aval0n: | since we currently have no kb |
| [06:35:11] | Dagmar: | That'll cause the login to exit then. |
| [06:35:25] | Aval0n: | it isn't |
| [06:35:29] | Aval0n: | it just crashes back to desktop |
| [06:35:36] | Dagmar: | Is myth _crashing and exiting_ or just _locking up_? |
| [06:35:46] | Aval0n: | crashing and exiting |
| [06:35:51] | Aval0n: | and it's rare |
| [06:35:52] | Dagmar: | No, there should be no desktop if you actually make mythfrontend the session |
| [06:36:06] | Aval0n: | hmm ok |
| [06:36:42] | justinh: | Saviq: well if the Skystar2 card worked just fine – that'd just mean that there's a little problem with fully-featured cards & multirec, rather than anything major. Still worth reporting with a log of mythbackend -v all --nodatabase (IIRC) though |
| [06:36:45] | Dagmar: | Look in /etc/X11/sessions. |
| [06:37:11] | Dagmar: | Pick a file, any file, clone it and edit it to forcibly start just mythfrontend, and then pick this new session from within GDM before you login as the mythtv user. |
| [06:37:34] | nevyn: | grrr gdm stabby |
| [06:37:51] | clever: | i set mythfrontend in a file in $HOLE |
| [06:37:52] | nevyn: | hardcode in gdm prevents autologon as root. |
| [06:37:54] | clever: | $HOME |
| [06:37:59] | Aval0n: | cool dagmar thnx |
| [06:38:05] | Dagmar: | nevyn: For good reason |
| [06:38:07] | clever: | i think it was .x-session |
| [06:38:10] | Aval0n: | Xsession |
| [06:38:12] | nevyn: | Dagmar: not for an appliance |
| [06:38:13] | clever: | yeah |
| [06:38:19] | Dagmar: | nevyn: Even for an appliance. |
| [06:38:28] | Dagmar: | If you don't want a security model, run bloody windows. |
| [06:38:40] | clever: | nevyn: for a dedicated device i wouldnt even run gdm |
| [06:38:43] | nevyn: | I care about my workstation. I care about my backend |
| [06:38:47] | Deek: | ESPECIALLY for an appliance. |
| [06:38:50] | nevyn: | I Don't care about the frontend. |
| [06:38:54] | justinh: | pfft |
| [06:38:56] | Dagmar: | If you're using GDM, it is predicated that you are _going_ to be creating user sessions. |
| [06:38:59] | clever: | my nfsroot'ed frontends all boot right into frontend&X&metacity |
| [06:39:15] | clever: | no session manager |
| [06:39:21] | nevyn: | and I want the performance and timing benifits of running mythfrontend as root |
| [06:39:25] | justinh: | if the machine isn't accessible externally what's there to worry about? _Realistically_ I mean |
| [06:39:26] | Dagmar: | If you're making an appliance, you're not likely to be generating user sessions, dig? |
| [06:39:30] | hardkrash: | ret=1; while [ "$ret" -ne "0" ]; do mythfrontend; ret=$?; done |
| [06:39:49] | Dagmar: | nevyn: So then run the damn thing as root, and don't use GDM for it. |
| [06:39:52] | hardkrash: | this way if myth exits normally it will not continue the loop |
| [06:40:08] | justinh: | the biggest danger a user has from running as root is from themselves |
| [06:40:24] | Dagmar: | justinh: It's a matter of someone using a tool for something it's not designed for, and then complaining it doesn't work well. |
| [06:40:24] | clever: | id just run mythfrontend under its own limited user |
| [06:40:31] | clever: | and give it access to shutdown thru sudo |
| [06:40:37] | justinh: | Dagmar: so? let it be their own lookout |
| [06:40:48] | clever: | posibly thru a wraper script to only allow shutdown/reboot |
| [06:40:53] | nevyn: | Dagmar: I disagree.. preventing me from using a tool for managing desktop sessions in the way I want is wrong. |
| [06:41:02] | justinh: | if a user is determined to break stuff they'll do it anyway ;) |
| [06:41:07] | Dagmar: | You're not creating a desktop session if your having it auto-login as root. |
| [06:41:20] | Dagmar: | You're pulling in GDM to do a whole lot of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING USEFUL. |
| [06:41:34] | clever: | Dagmar: yep |
| [06:41:36] | nevyn: | ah but you're wrong. |
| [06:41:38] | Dagmar: | If you want to autologin as root, just having freaking rc.4 start your damn window manager directly and you are _done_ |
| [06:41:47] | nevyn: | I get error handling for broken X config.. |
| [06:41:50] | clever: | Dagmar: im using rc.local |
| [06:41:51] | justinh: | Dagmar: and even if you don't ;) |
| [06:41:51] | Dagmar: | No, I'm not wrong. I know this window manager and X and session crap like the back of my hand. |
| [06:42:01] | nevyn: | I get a sane responce to crt-alt-backspace |
| [06:42:18] | Dagmar: | Ctrl-alt-backspace has nothing to do with GDM. |
| [06:42:33] | nevyn: | I get all sorts of benifits. that would require extensive coding to replicate in a custom startx on boot script |
| [06:42:40] | clever: | ctrl+alt+backspace is X itself |
| [06:42:47] | nevyn: | yes. |
| [06:42:54] | clever: | it causes X to just shutdown |
| [06:43:04] | clever: | and a proper script arround it can restart like gdm |
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| [06:43:12] | nevyn: | but restarting the session on ctrl-alt-backspace is a function of the DM |
| [06:43:15] | Deek: | dude, init. |
| [06:43:18] | Dagmar: | "all sorts of benefits" == "i'm going to make things up to reinforce my shoddy logic" |
| [06:43:19] | nevyn: | clever: yep a proper script. WORK. |
| [06:43:20] | Deek: | *duh* |
| [06:43:21] | justinh: | launch X, start mythfrontend. job done |
| [06:43:38] | hardkrash: | i'd suggest sudo to run things as root, you can lock it down for the executables you want to allow and to require no password for them. |
| [06:43:40] | justinh: | maybe even load nvidia-settings -l too |
| [06:43:54] | Dagmar: | _Init_ will restart things just fine. |
| [06:44:04] | clever: | http://pastebin.ca/976515 is my rc.local for my nfs rooted systems |
| [06:44:10] | nevyn: | hardkrash: yep and for workstations and server's that's the right approach for a dedicated frontend it's wrong ;) |
| [06:44:37] | justinh: | in general desktop use I wouldn't recommend running anything rooty unless you absolutely have to – and even for those to use sudo. but for a standalone myth frontend... which doesn't even have a keyboard.. yeesh. talk about paranoia |
| [06:44:53] | Dagmar: | nevyn: And no, restarting the session on ctrl-alt-bksps is NOT a function of the desktop environment. You are utterly and completely wrong about that. |
| [06:44:58] | nevyn: | justinh: thanks ;) |
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| [06:45:14] | justinh: | fear teh bogeyman!!!! |
| [06:45:18] | nevyn: | Dagmar: it's not a function of the desktop environment .. it's a function of the display manager. |
| [06:45:29] | Dagmar: | No, it's fucking not. It's a built-in that kills X. |
| [06:45:45] | nevyn: | the recovery and restarting of X is done by the DM not by X |
| [06:45:46] | Dagmar: | That key sequence makes X _exit_ unless DontZap was enabled. |
| [06:45:48] | clever: | i use ctrl+alt+backspace on my nfs frontends when i want to manualy run gnome thru startx |
| [06:45:51] | Dagmar: | No, it's not. |
| [06:46:01] | clever: | but nothing realy stops me from leaving the fe up and using double the ram |
| [06:46:06] | Dagmar: | Oh fuck this. It's clear you don't have a clue as to what processes start what other processes. |
| [06:46:09] | justinh: | all that said, I totally accept it's generally not a good idea to go around telling noobs that running stuff as root is a good idea – they can join the dots & jump to all kinds of crazy conclusions which in the long run is _bad_ |
| [06:46:29] | Dagmar: | When X dies, your DM is already DEAD. |
| [06:46:33] | Dagmar: | It's not restarting X. |
| [06:46:37] | Dagmar: | Sheesh. |
| [06:46:41] | nevyn: | no it's not. |
| [06:46:44] | Dagmar: | Parent dies == children die with it |
| [06:47:02] | nevyn: | ok.. so the init script that is the dm service restarts it. |
| [06:47:03] | Dagmar: | X starts your desktop manager, not the other way around. |
| [06:47:09] | justinh: | ahh if only that were true.. people would look after old folks much better ;) |
| [06:47:19] | clever: | Dagmar: X doesnt realy start anything |
| [06:47:26] | clever: | xinit/startx runs X and the session manager |
| [06:47:27] | Deek: | Dagmar: I think he means the display manager |
| [06:47:39] | Dagmar: | clever: Do your pslist as a tree |
| [06:48:10] | Dagmar: | Deek: desktop/display, doens't matter, they're synonymous to the extent that they're nothing like what he thinks they are |
| [06:48:15] | clever: | X is a childless child of kdm |
| [06:48:27] | nevyn: | Dagmar: you may be correct.. but from my pov.. the gdm/kdm init script and executable are sortof fungible. |
| [06:48:28] | Deek: | Dagmar: The X server has no children. |
| [06:48:31] | clever: | then theres something called -:0 with a sh leading to startkde |
| [06:48:36] | clever: | Deek: correct:) |
| [06:49:00] | Deek: | Dagmar: The display manager is the parent of X and all the user's processes. |
| [06:49:03] | Dagmar: | No shit |
| [06:49:12] | Dagmar: | rather fucking no |
| [06:49:14] | clever: | but X doesnt start anything |
| [06:49:36] | fryfrog: | anyone much of a centos / rhel user? |
| [06:49:36] | clever: | ive manualy started X and a session before |
| [06:49:36] | clever: | thru ssh |
| [06:49:38] | clever: | i did startx's job manualy |
| [06:49:56] | Deek: | The session/desktop manager is a child of xsession |
| [06:49:56] | Dagmar: | clever: I have to do it on a regular basis |
| [06:49:58] | fryfrog: | http://pastebin.ca/976517 |
| [06:50:05] | clever: | Dagmar: sounds fun |
| [06:50:09] | fryfrog: | anyone have a clue how to resolve that stupid rpm/yum dependancy? |
| [06:50:18] | Dagmar: | Every time bloody GNOME changes the way they start, I have to revisit all this stuff so believe me by now I'm seeing it in my sleep |
| [06:50:41] | Deek: | Dagmar: How many times has that happened now? |
| [06:50:48] | clever: | ive got it working with just running plain gnome-session as a client for the X server |
| [06:50:52] | Dagmar: | Deek: At least three times since I've begun working with Dropline |
| [06:50:55] | Deek: | hell, are they still using gnome-session? |
| [06:51:04] | nevyn: | Deek: the session manager is NOT the display manager. |
| [06:51:04] | Dagmar: | ...and this doesn't count all the keyring crap I've got to keep an eye on. |
| [06:51:06] | clever: | Deek: it works on ubuntu 7.10 atleast |
| [06:51:13] | Deek: | nevyn: no shit. |
| [06:51:29] | clever: | but on one of my systems that(and everythign else) errors on Xvnc4 |
| [06:51:37] | xris (xris!n=xris@xris.forevermore.net) has quit () | |
| [06:51:39] | clever: | so i cant fire gnome up in vnc |
| [06:51:51] | Deek: | nevyn: I already said that. |
| [06:51:51] | clever: | cant even run metacity or xsane |
| [06:52:53] | Deek: | nevyn: Regardless, gdm is absolutely insane for an appliance. |
| [06:52:57] | nevyn: | I said that the displaymanger will restart X on ctrl-alt-backspace. |
| [06:53:07] | nevyn: | Deek: right because it won't let you autologin as root.. |
| [06:53:17] | nevyn: | where kdm says don't do it but will let you ;) |
| [06:53:24] | Deek: | No, because there should be no possible way to log into an appliance. |
| [06:53:33] | Dagmar: | I'm glad I'm not using code that facilitates stupidity |
| [06:53:38] | Deek: | Not even an option. |
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| [06:55:50] | Deek: | force autologin on the console, no freakin' display manager, shut the machine down from mythwelcome because the only other way to do it is with the button on the front. |
| [06:56:02] | justinh: | when I ran gentoo, I used root as a regular user. bad user! BAD user! I could never be arsed to set up a 'normal' user. No ill ever came to it but I'm not suggesting for one minute it was a good idea ;) |
| [06:58:54] | Deek: | You need more paranoia on an appliance, not less. :) |
| [06:59:43] | justinh: | I don't think any TiVo owners need to worry about being pwned |
| [06:59:54] | Deek: | There's no way to log into a TiVo. |
| [07:00:45] | justinh: | it has a network port and I believe you can run ssh on it |
| [07:00:48] | purserj: | umm AFAIK tivo has a shell |
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| [07:01:42] | Dagmar: | it does have one |
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| [07:01:59] | Dagmar: | What it doesn't have is a "meaningful amount of CPU power" |
| [07:02:23] | Deek: | justinh: You have to modify it to get ssh started. |
| [07:02:45] | hardkrash: | Are there any HD myth tv users around? |
| [07:03:04] | nevyn: | hardkrash: yep. |
| [07:03:12] | justinh: | so? the point I'm making is that an appliance running all its processes as root doesn't have to be insecure |
| [07:03:18] | hardkrash: | i started using myth back in the day when HD was unheard of, now it's time to upgrade |
| [07:03:28] | MilkBoy: | argh... can I control the dvb module load order with udev? |
| [07:03:35] | Deek: | justinh: It is if there's a way in. |
| [07:03:48] | clever: | MilkBoy: why would you want to? |
| [07:03:54] | MilkBoy: | keeps switching dvb-c and dvb-t card numbers |
| [07:04:06] | MilkBoy: | which, kindof does not work too well |
| [07:04:07] | clever: | you can give the cards static numbers |
| [07:04:09] | clever: | with udev |
| [07:04:15] | clever: | without playing with the load order |
| [07:04:16] | MilkBoy: | mmm.. any gurus around? =) |
| [07:04:20] | justinh: | MilkBoy: there are 2 ways. module blacklisting, or mangling udev rules |
| [07:04:27] | hardkrash: | justinh: lock down ssh and you should be fine..... |
| [07:04:31] | Deek: | MilkBoy: You can control which cards get which devices without worrying about load order. |
| [07:04:42] | clever: | i made my 3com webcam showup as /dev/3com(symlink to real device) |
| [07:04:50] | clever: | and the same for a pixart camera |
| [07:04:57] | clever: | and eth devices on my router |
| [07:04:59] | justinh: | BUT – it's way easier to blacklist modules than edit udev rules |
| [07:05:01] | hardkrash: | nevyn: any recomendations for quality HD tuners/setups? |
| [07:05:12] | MilkBoy: | okay.. so I need to figure out some ID of the devices and create som cryptic udev rules? =D |
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| [07:05:21] | justinh: | udev is still too much like magic for my liking |
| [07:05:28] | Dagmar: | It's just arcane |
| [07:05:33] | clever: | MilkBoy: i made my rules based on the brandname of the usb devices |
| [07:05:48] | clever: | i only had 1 3com thing so i didnt need to match to any uniq id |
| [07:06:06] | clever: | the nic's i just did thru mac adr |
| [07:06:10] | justinh: | device node names might as well be bloody 128 digit hex numbers ffs |
| [07:06:27] | clever: | SUBSYSTEM=="video4linux", SYSFS{model}=="Pixart PAC207-BCA", SYMLINK+="videopixart" |
| [07:06:32] | MilkBoy: | clever: ok.. so I have 2 identical dvb-t tunersm and one dvb-c... so the only important thing is to have the dvb-c as the same number always |
| [07:06:51] | clever: | MilkBoy: then youll probly want to go with a more uniq id |
| [07:06:57] | clever: | like the location on the pci bus maybe |
| [07:07:30] | MilkBoy: | clever: mm.. which will break if (when) they are replugged in a different location (dvb-t are usb devices) |
| [07:07:36] | clever: | ooo usb |
| [07:07:45] | MilkBoy: | dvb-c is pci |
| [07:07:50] | clever: | ahhh |
| [07:07:53] | Deek: | easy then |
| [07:07:58] | MilkBoy: | it is? |
| [07:08:01] | clever: | you can identify by the pci/usb also |
| [07:08:05] | clever: | if you only have 1 of each |
| [07:08:11] | MilkBoy: | 2 usb :P |
| [07:08:14] | clever: | ahh |
| [07:08:18] | Dagmar: | Well, less difficult than a open-heart surgery, but "easy" I'm not so sure about |
| [07:08:18] | clever: | matching usb tuners? |
| [07:08:20] | Deek: | you don't need to care about the dvb-t |
| [07:08:23] | hardkrash: | but the 2 usb are identical |
| [07:08:28] | Deek: | they don't matter |
| [07:08:41] | Deek: | Just give the dvb-c a special name. |
| [07:08:44] | justinh: | clever: more like 'eugh usb' :) |
| [07:08:54] | clever: | dvb-t are both receiving the same signal so it shouldnt matter which -t your using |
| [07:09:03] | justinh: | people say 'usb' like it's a _good_ thing |
| [07:09:05] | MilkBoy: | clever: I know |
| [07:09:14] | hardkrash: | firewire forever! |
| [07:09:40] | clever: | there was some udev command which would list all the properties on a device |
| [07:09:49] | clever: | which can then be used to build the udev rules |
| [07:09:49] | Dagmar: | Yes, it's always good to have a transport bus that allows you to access all of the host's RAM |
| [07:10:06] | califdreas: | MilkBoy: there is a patch to add the adaptor number to the module options, posted on the linuxtv dvb mailing list |
| [07:10:08] | clever: | Dagmar: now i can rootkit the box without admin powers! |
| [07:10:20] | Dagmar: | ...even though you're just going to be sending files acorss with it, you might want to browse all the hosts memory for some reason or other. |
| [07:10:36] | Deek: | udevinfo |
| [07:10:38] | MilkBoy: | califdreas: sounds too easy |
| [07:10:45] | hardkrash: | udevinfo --attribute-walk --name /dev/video0 |
| [07:10:48] | clever: | Dagmar: for dma file transfer |
| [07:10:57] | clever: | dump the entire file into the host ram without any host cpu usage |
| [07:11:09] | Dagmar: | clever: No, you don't need to browse the hosts' memory for that |
| [07:11:33] | clever: | the problem seems to be that the firewire device can pick where in real ram to read/write |
| [07:11:55] | clever: | it would be better to setup a dma 'channel' or range with the firewire controler |
| [07:12:16] | clever: | which the controler will only give access to a certain device |
| [07:12:17] | hardkrash: | it is all in virtual memory anyhow, so no you cant get to it with out it being granted it in a computer |
| [07:12:29] | hardkrash: | granted in the DMA engine |
| [07:12:46] | Dagmar: | hardkrask: Dig up some of the recent laptop compromise techniques that were published about three months ago |
| [07:12:48] | clever: | hardkrash: in some cases firewire works on real ram |
| [07:12:53] | clever: | not virtual addresses |
| [07:12:55] | hardkrash: | but on a dumber device, yea it is a big memory map |
| [07:13:02] | califdreas: | MilkBoy: I have not tried it, but the patch applies cleanly and the modules compile (except for the new cx18 driver) |
| [07:13:04] | Dagmar: | XP is such a "dumber device" |
| [07:13:27] | MilkBoy: | califdreas: mmkay |
| [07:13:27] | hardkrash: | sorry /me works for apple, i dont do firewire in XP |
| [07:13:41] | Dagmar: | heh |
| [07:13:53] | hardkrash: | i avoid it like the plauge |
| [07:14:19] | hardkrash: | so as for hd cards in USA any reccomendations |
| [07:14:23] | clever: | hardkrash: my desktop with xp has onboard firewire:O |
| [07:14:40] | clever: | weee |
| [07:14:48] | clever: | mythfrontend exploded |
| [07:14:51] | califdreas: | äh what, MilkBoy? |
| [07:15:07] | clever: | left a 200mb pile of crap in my hdd |
| [07:15:23] | Deek: | little core dumpage? |
| [07:15:29] | clever: | yep |
| [07:15:34] | clever: | moar asserts! |
| [07:16:07] | Dagmar: | QVC? |
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| [07:16:36] | clever: | 2008-04–08 04:13:44.347 MythEvent: COMMFLAG_UPDATE 1028 2008-04–08T02:58:00 |
| [07:16:39] | clever: | ASSERT failure in QList<T>::operator[]: "index out of range", file /usr/include/qt4/QtCore/qlist.h, line 394 |
| [07:16:53] | clever: | #6 0x080829a0 in QList<QString>::operator[] (this=0xbfe867b0, i=3) at /usr/include/qt4/QtCore/qlist.h:394 |
| [07:16:55] | clever: | #7 0xb7a183fc in TV::customEvent (this=0x9437850, e=0x93b88e8) at tv_play.cpp:6536 |
| [07:16:59] | clever: | #8 0xb5955c16 in QObject::event () from /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4 |
| [07:17:21] | califdreas: | clever: are you going to quote the whole 200 mb? |
| [07:17:39] | clever: | califdreas: no that would take a week with flood protection on:P |
| [07:17:52] | Deek: | that's the backtrace, not the core dump. :) |
| [07:17:56] | califdreas: | lol. no kidding. |
| [07:17:57] | clever: | notice i left 5 levels of backtrace out |
| [07:18:05] | clever: | and its 20 long in total |
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| [07:19:48] | clever: | the bt should be enough to work out where the problem is |
| [07:19:54] | clever: | but i have no idea what that code is doing |
| [07:20:31] | califdreas: | MilkBoy: oh, here's the patch i was talking about: http://linuxtv.org/pipermail/linux-dvb/2008-March/025077.html |
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| [07:23:06] | MilkBoy: | califdreas: tnx |
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| [07:23:57] | califdreas: | no problem :) |
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| [07:25:41] | justinh: | wow. I get scant information with udevinfo for my dvb tuners |
| [07:25:53] | justinh: | at least on the dvb side |
| [07:26:17] | justinh: | the only unique thing about each frontend is SYSFS{dev}=="212:5" |
| [07:26:31] | justinh: | how that relates to which card it actually is I dunno |
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| [07:31:07] | MilkBoy: | justinh: heh.. same here.. the damn serial is "001" on all usb devices =D |
| [07:31:27] | justinh: | no serial at all here |
| [07:31:34] | hardkrash: | lol |
| [07:31:39] | justinh: | nothing in terms of device strings either |
| [07:32:10] | hardkrash: | use diff to highlight? |
| [07:32:13] | justinh: | if I run udevinfo -a -p /class/dvb/dvb0.frontend0 I basically get 3 lines of output |
| [07:32:15] | MilkBoy: | heh.. I have names and stuff for the usb-devices, but only hex for the pci =D |
| [07:32:25] | justinh: | KERNEL=="dvb0.frontend0" SUBSYSTEM=="dvb" SYSFS{dev}=="212:3" |
| [07:33:18] | justinh: | useless! |
| [07:34:42] | MilkBoy: | yup |
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| [07:38:28] | hardkrash: | --attribute-walk should show you the parents, that might allow you to lock into a particular location on the bus |
| [07:38:40] | Deek: | no ATTRs? |
| [07:39:10] | justinh: | hardkrash: SHOULD, yes |
| [07:39:24] | hardkrash: | are thoughsts root? |
| [07:39:34] | justinh: | what? |
| [07:39:55] | hardkrash: | run as root? |
| [07:39:56] | justinh: | ah – no difference if I sudo it |
| [07:41:41] | Deek: | try --name=/dev/device |
| [07:42:00] | califdreas: | try udevinfo --query=all --attribute-walk --name=[path_to_device_node] |
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| [07:42:09] | tenchi21: | hi |
| [07:42:11] | hardkrash: | --query=all |
| [07:42:13] | hardkrash: | ? |
| [07:42:29] | tenchi21: | whats the best video format for dvdrips? |
| [07:42:39] | hardkrash: | lol califdreas my thoughts too |
| [07:42:58] | califdreas: | yep,gives tons of (mostly useless) output :) |
| [07:43:16] | justinh: | udevinfo: invalid option — - :P |
| [07:43:45] | Deek: | holy ancient udev |
| [07:44:57] | justinh: | if it ain't broke – don't upgrade :) |
| [07:45:02] | ** justinh pats his dapper box ** | |
| [07:45:30] | califdreas: | I wouldn't know how to write a udev rule that deals with a folder structure anyway. |
| [07:46:03] | Deek: | folder structure? |
| [07:46:08] | califdreas: | but maybe some elaborate bash script with lots of grep, sed and of cource awk will do it :) |
| [07:46:43] | califdreas: | Deek: yes, on openSUSE I have /dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0, for example. |
| [07:46:44] | hardkrash: | wow i fel old hearing udev called old.... i remember static devices...... |
| [07:47:28] | hardkrash: | what's replaced udev if it is old? |
| [07:47:33] | Deek: | udev |
| [07:47:58] | Deek: | justinh has a udev that is ancient in udev terms. |
| [07:48:08] | hardkrash: | ahh |
| [07:48:33] | Deek: | doesn't have long arguments. |
| [07:48:38] | califdreas: | time to update & bork justin's system, me thinks! |
| [07:49:38] | Deek: | If it ain't broke, break it...how else will you get to fix it? :) |
| [07:49:41] | califdreas: | give me ssh access and i will guarantee for nothing ;) |
| [07:53:17] | justinh: | dapper isn't _that_ old anyway |
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| [07:53:47] | justinh: | as for upgrading.. that's how stuff gets borked |
| [07:53:54] | Deek: | it's what, two years? |
| [07:54:14] | Deek: | I don't keep track of ubuntu. |
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| [07:54:18] | justinh: | this is where the myth of 'having to constantly fiddle with it' comes from I think |
| [07:54:32] | justinh: | Deek: your point being? |
| [07:54:49] | Deek: | Wasn't aware I was trying to make one. |
| [07:54:58] | Deek: | I was asking how old it was. |
| [07:55:01] | justinh: | no idea |
| [07:56:16] | Deek: | aggressive channel ;) |
| [07:56:29] | califdreas: | well, if i could finally play these 1080p h264 videos, i would stop tinkering right away. |
| [07:57:02] | justinh: | califdreas: dodgy downloads eh. nice |
| [07:57:04] | Deek: | Personally, I upgrade to MAKE things break. |
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| [07:57:20] | justinh: | Deek: June 2006 |
| [07:57:34] | justinh: | ancient it may be, but it works & just keeps on working |
| [07:57:54] | califdreas: | justinh: nope, tv recordings, transcoded with mencoder. |
| [07:58:05] | justinh: | 1080p? you jest! |
| [07:58:09] | califdreas: | aggressive channel, this. |
| [07:58:21] | justinh: | nothing is broadcast in 1080p |
| [07:58:48] | califdreas: | I have a lot of 1080i recordings, encoding them with deinterlacing to 1080p |
| [07:59:02] | justinh: | wow that's wasteful |
| [07:59:18] | califdreas: | my downloads are 720p :)) |
| [07:59:28] | justinh: | 1080i would only deinterlace to 540p |
| [07:59:31] | Deek: | justinh: movie -> broadcast -> ivtc = 1080p |
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| [08:00:39] | Deek: | @23.976 fps |
| [08:00:51] | califdreas: | fact is, I tried a lot of different things to transcode the recordings, but they just won't play without judder or a/v sync problems |
| [08:00:58] | justinh: | MOAR MHZ! |
| [08:01:04] | justinh: | MOAR MHZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| [08:02:09] | Deek: | ...the hell? "Plaza Sesamo"?!? |
| [08:02:52] | justinh: | h.264 is a royal bitch to decode. and if you're doing it yourself you're not likely to be able to benefit from multithreaded decoding either |
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| [08:03:22] | justinh: | er.. I mean if you're encoding it yourself |
| [08:03:45] | hardkrash: | my ipod decodes h.264 :-P |
| [08:03:58] | justinh: | hardkrash: not 1080p h.264 I'd bet :P |
| [08:04:07] | hardkrash: | i think you may want to look at this device..... let me grab the link |
| [08:04:13] | justinh: | 320x240 – possibly 640x380 at a push |
| [08:04:13] | califdreas: | justinh: yep, that's one prob. no multithreading. |
| [08:04:23] | justinh: | califdreas: 0.21 is capable |
| [08:04:55] | justinh: | unless you're one of those file squirrel types though I really don't see the point in transcoding anything |
| [08:05:24] | califdreas: | would that be like a packrat? |
| [08:05:30] | hardkrash: | http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/prod . . . uct1.en.html |
| [08:05:33] | califdreas: | then yes, that's me. |
| [08:05:43] | hardkrash: | but that was an encoder.... not a decoder.... |
| [08:05:49] | Deek: | anything? surely, you jest. |
| [08:06:03] | justinh: | Deek: anything |
| [08:06:17] | justinh: | not worth wasting cycles on stuff you're only gonna delete anyway! |
| [08:06:37] | Deek: | cycles are cheaper than disk space. |
| [08:06:38] | califdreas: | not anything, but i like to keep copies of lost, new amsterdam, csi, etc, etc..... |
| [08:06:55] | justinh: | everything is disposable. EVERYTHING |
| [08:07:05] | justinh: | :) |
| [08:07:35] | justinh: | Deek: not in terms of time though. much easier to buy a bigger HDD |
| [08:07:39] | hardkrash: | i keep my copies in bittorrent :-P |
| [08:07:47] | califdreas: | uh oh. |
| [08:07:52] | califdreas: | the b word. |
| [08:08:01] | califdreas: | in here. |
| [08:08:05] | califdreas: | not good. |
| [08:08:17] | Deek: | yeah, thanks for playing |
| [08:08:48] | justinh: | I just can't get my head around all these people who keep loads of TV recordings. My wife has me archive all her 'bad girls' shows (eeeeeeew) but she's NEVER watched one more than once. I play along to keep the peace |
| [08:09:25] | justinh: | I could delete the files & just leave the metadata & she'd never find out |
| [08:09:27] | Deek: | I keep Good Eats around, and Atlantis until I watch it (got almost two seasons sitting around waiting for me to watch them — I haven't, because we're missing episodes) |
| [08:09:37] | hardkrash: | http://www.elecard.com/technology/avc-dxva.php there are some listings of video cards that can accelerate h.264 decoding |
| [08:09:40] | califdreas: | hardkrash: that looks like a nice gadget. but I can not spend any more on my myth system, or i have to sleep on the porch. |
| [08:09:51] | califdreas: | and it's cold at night, still. |
| [08:10:16] | justinh: | hardkrash: not in linux, they don't. not in linux. or with mythtv in windows, either |
| [08:10:32] | hardkrash: | i see, only a mac thing? |
| [08:10:50] | Deek: | Not on the Mac either IIRC |
| [08:11:10] | hardkrash: | then why have the silicon that can do the decode if the drivers don't support it? |
| [08:11:15] | justinh: | mac video hardware can accelerate h.264 I think.. not in linux though |
| [08:11:28] | justinh: | I said not with mythtv on windows |
| [08:11:33] | justinh: | not "not on windows" |
| [08:11:42] | hardkrash: | ahh oks. |
| [08:12:27] | justinh: | video decoding help from GPUs in linux is strictly limited to xvmc.. which is... strictly limited |
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| [08:13:17] | califdreas: | i have heard somewhere that intel & amd drivers *may* include hardware acc. for h264 sometime in the future. |
| [08:13:39] | califdreas: | no word about nvidia, though. |
| [08:13:48] | justinh: | nvidia MAY include hardware acceleration in future at some point too |
| [08:13:53] | Deek: | I should find an older nvidia card for xvmc :) |
| [08:14:03] | justinh: | that's the rub isn't it – some time in the future. when? |
| [08:14:31] | justinh: | by the time they get around to it, I'll bet there's a new format to contend with :) |
| [08:14:57] | califdreas: | justinh: that's a good question. probably when h264 hardware acceleration is a obsolete as xvmc is today . |
| [08:15:06] | Deek: | By the time they get around to it, it'll be easy to add something else. |
| [08:15:19] | justinh: | anyway – I mean really... computers.. to play video. pfft |
| [08:15:30] | Deek: | On nvidia, media acceleration is done by shaders. |
| [08:15:33] | hardkrash: | just thought of a cute idea, get a FPGA pci demo card, make a decoder in the FPGA, plenty of drivers to write, but it could be done. |
| [08:15:40] | califdreas: | lol. you use what you have. |
| [08:16:02] | justinh: | we shouldn't fscking _need_ to use a computer to do this stuff. all this convergence.. it's possible NOW but is anybody doing it (well) ? |
| [08:16:27] | hardkrash: | justinh apple tv? |
| [08:16:29] | justinh: | califdreas: plenty of patent lawyers to satisfy too |
| [08:16:40] | justinh: | hardkrash: appletv doesn't record TV. |
| [08:16:51] | justinh: | nor does it play _real_ HD |
| [08:17:05] | califdreas: | patent lawyers. :( |
| [08:18:13] | justinh: | if software patents ever turn out to be a big deal, mythtv is screwed anyway.. along with ffmpeg & everybody else bar Fluendo |
| [08:18:56] | hardkrash: | mythtv will never dissapear |
| [08:18:59] | califdreas: | do you guys in europe have software patents? |
| [08:19:00] | tank-man: | i live in the caribiean |
| [08:19:04] | justinh: | califdreas: almost |
| [08:19:08] | tank-man: | lol |
| [08:19:11] | hardkrash: | software parents won't stop myth |
| [08:19:37] | justinh: | what.. like devs trying to keep their noses clean is stopping support for p2p & the likes.. |
| [08:20:38] | nevyn: | myth torrent plugin. |
| [08:20:45] | califdreas: | well, mythtv sure tries to keep up a particularly 'clean' image. |
| [08:20:50] | justinh: | nevyn: never gonan happen officially |
| [08:20:53] | nevyn: | right |
| [08:22:11] | justinh: | califdreas: it's sensible to stay on the right side of the law.. least hassle that way too. not that many other projects seem to give a damn |
| [08:22:29] | nevyn: | ffmpeg.. mplayer xine. |
| [08:22:59] | nevyn: | not to mention the blatent copyright infringement that is w32codecs |
| [08:23:23] | justinh: | if MS wanted them stopped they'd be all over it |
| [08:23:50] | justinh: | certain linux libs have already caused legal action – think libdts |
| [08:24:05] | Deek: | which takes out myth just as quickly as it does ffmpeg |
| [08:24:08] | nevyn: | ms would rather for now people encoded to avi rather than support free formats |
| [08:24:52] | nevyn: | so is there any chance of myth moving away from nuv? |
| [08:24:56] | justinh: | nevyn: so would I, if I was them |
| [08:25:04] | nevyn: | justinh: right. |
| [08:25:15] | nevyn: | it's a completely sensible business manuver. |
| [08:25:16] | Dagmar: | It barely uses nuv unless you're using framegrabber |
| [08:25:25] | Deek: | avi *is* a free format. |
| [08:25:33] | justinh: | avi is a _container_ not a format |
| [08:26:07] | Deek: | how exactly do you define format, if a container isn't one? |
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| [08:26:18] | nevyn: | well codecs are formats. |
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| [08:26:33] | Deek: | codecs are content formats. |
| [08:27:24] | Deek: | avi's as good a container format as any. |
| [08:27:34] | nevyn: | not really |
| [08:27:39] | nevyn: | it lacks useful features |
| [08:27:40] | califdreas: | justinh: there has to be some sense in the laws our governments want us to live by, though. |
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| [08:27:45] | Deek: | like? |
| [08:27:56] | nevyn: | multiple audio tracks. decent subtitle support. |
| [08:28:41] | Deek: | I don't buy it. By convention, maybe. |
| [08:28:48] | nevyn: | it might have multiple audio tracks.. maybe. but it definitly doesn't have subtitle support. |
| [08:30:20] | Deek: | It doesn't have _specific_ support for lots of things, but it's extremely general. |
| [08:31:12] | justinh: | subtitles. jesus this new world order is never going to happen if everybody isn't speaking English |
| [08:31:18] | justinh: | ;) |
| [08:31:52] | califdreas: | you mean german, of course. |
| [08:31:53] | califdreas: | :)) |
| [08:32:23] | Deek: | nevyn: Any decent container format (i.e. not MPEG) can support any arbitrary data stream. |
| [08:32:38] | nevyn: | Deek: ok so subtitles using external file.. gigantic FAIL |
| [08:33:00] | Deek: | That's not contained. |
| [08:33:06] | Deek: | Disqualified. |
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| [08:33:34] | califdreas: | this must be what is generally know as the war of the formats :)) |
| [08:34:15] | nevyn: | I quite like matroska |
| [08:34:23] | Deek: | Look, you can create a perfectly legal avi file with subtitles and audio tracks in 35 languages that nothing will ever be able to play. :) |
| [08:34:29] | justinh: | califdreas: some sense in the laws our governments want us to live by.. like er.. "having sex with your goat is only permitted on the 3rd friday of the month", and "you can only marry your sister on a Monday when the moon is in ascenscion".. that kind of thing? |
| [08:34:55] | Dagmar: | You can get waivers for those in most placces. |
| [08:35:05] | nevyn: | Deek: ok so the file format doesn't prohibit arbitary streams but they're going to throw all existing implementations for a loop |
| [08:35:07] | Dagmar: | \It's okay to f**k a goat, if you have money. |
| [08:35:15] | justinh: | sensible & government – not two words you can generally use in the same sentence :) |
| [08:35:16] | califdreas: | no, that's the law in Arkansas, I was talking about developed countries. soryy for the misunderstanding. |
| [08:35:32] | Deek: | ITYM "Alabama". |
| [08:35:35] | Dagmar: | Arkansas somewhat expects it, I think. |
| [08:35:45] | Dagmar: | ...for the goats anyway. |
| [08:35:53] | califdreas: | and btw, do not make love to your picknick table, you *will* end up in jail. |
| [08:36:01] | Dagmar: | Or a bicycle. |
| [08:36:02] | justinh: | the MPAA et al want movie viewing to be like it was in the olden days. with everybody paying for every single time they watch a film |
| [08:36:31] | Deek: | someone reads LICD :) |
| [08:36:50] | califdreas: | justinh: I must be kinda too old, then. I has never been like this. people were always copying their media. |
| [08:37:18] | justinh: | want to watch a disc? great – just hook up your HDCP crippled player to the HDCP crippled TV.. allow the HDCP validation device to count the number of people within viewing distance of the TV, insert credit card.. and of you go |
| [08:37:18] | Deek: | califdreas: Doesn't mean MPAA were happy about it. |
| [08:37:57] | justinh: | "this is all neat & all, but how can we make a LOT more money?" |
| [08:38:03] | califdreas: | and in Germany, you even pay a copy fee on every blank media you buy. still you are technically not allowed to make a copy for your mp3 player. |
| [08:38:27] | hardkrash: | night folks |
| [08:38:39] | califdreas: | night, hardkrash |
| [08:38:41] | hardkrash: | thanks for ctrl-w |
| [08:38:44] | hardkrash: | :-) |
| [08:38:45] | justinh: | nighty night |
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| [08:39:29] | califdreas: | and in california, people go from door to door and try to sell you copied dvds. |
| [08:39:30] | Deek: | califdreas: same in the US, except it's in law that they aren't permitted to sue. :) |
| [08:39:44] | justinh: | ooo Ken Burns effect for mythgallery. now all we need is a menu transition that isn't that awful fade |
| [08:40:31] | califdreas: | justinh: aren't you the most dedicated themer for myth? |
| [08:40:36] | justinh: | WAS |
| [08:40:59] | nevyn: | is there any central source of themes for mythtv? |
| [08:41:09] | Dagmar: | The wiki |
| [08:41:10] | califdreas: | ah. sorry to hear that :( |
| [08:41:21] | Deek: | califdreas: It is an infringing act to copy a CD, but it is illegal for the copyright holder to sue you over it as long as you copy it to an audio disc. |
| [08:41:22] | justinh: | OMFG. more flipbook animation for mythtv :( changeset 16982 |
| [08:41:28] | Dagmar: | Mainly you can just press on your eyes real hard and have hte same effect tho |
| [08:41:35] | justinh: | califdreas: I'm not |
| [08:41:55] | califdreas: | Deek: now, that's typical American Law :)) |
| [08:42:16] | justinh: | fuck it I think I'll have a go making a radial wipe widget for graphics – like the progress indicator only radial |
| [08:42:16] | Dagmar: | Typical wanna-be lawyer. |
| [08:42:20] | Dagmar: | It's called "fair use" noob |
| [08:42:34] | Dagmar: | It's that thing that the 5C people are trying to eliminate. |
| [08:42:39] | justinh: | we don't need no more steenking flipbook animations |
| [08:42:45] | nevyn: | justinh: :) |
| [08:42:56] | Dagmar: | justinh: I'll take one that doesn't gobble disk or RAM like there's no tomorrow. |
| [08:43:09] | nevyn: | has anyone thought of retargeting the myth drawing stuff to plasma ;-P |
| [08:43:10] | Deek: | califdreas: here's the fun part — if you copy a "protected" CD, they still can't sue you for copyright infringement...but they can prosecute you for breaking the encryption device. |
| [08:43:11] | califdreas: | justinh: I was under the impression that the glass-wide and neo-something were yours? |
| [08:43:19] | Dagmar: | Deek: No, they can't. |
| [08:43:23] | justinh: | califdreas: yes they were |
| [08:43:32] | Dagmar: | Get your facts straight, guy. |
| [08:43:44] | Dagmar: | Fair use rights have exemption under the DMCA. |
| [08:43:49] | justinh: | nevyn: it's only just being ported to mythui now |
| [08:44:10] | nevyn: | justinh: I was kidding... kidding... |
| [08:44:11] | Deek: | Dagmar: heh, fair use is a legal fiction. |
| [08:44:15] | Dagmar: | Deek: no, it's not. |
| [08:44:19] | Deek: | Dagmar: It's not defined in law. |
| [08:44:23] | Dagmar: | Yes, it is defined. |
| [08:44:34] | Deek: | It's outlined in _caselaw_. |
| [08:44:43] | Dagmar: | That's still law. |
| [08:44:56] | Deek: | note, outlined as opposed to defined. |
| [08:45:01] | califdreas: | justinh: I liked them themes. |
| [08:45:06] | Dagmar: | Case precedent simply defines it's scope more explicitly. |
| [08:45:20] | Deek: | there is no legal definition of fair use. |
| [08:45:27] | Dagmar: | Not "outlined". _defined_. |
| [08:45:42] | Dagmar: | Deek: Spend a few years with crime as your hobby and then come back and talk |
| [08:46:00] | Deek: | Dagmar: err, huh? |
| [08:46:02] | califdreas: | aggressive channel, that :) |
| [08:46:18] | Dagmar: | calfd: When someone's spreading misinformation, yes. |
| [08:46:59] | Dagmar: | Let's look over a wikipedia for just how _easy_ it is to debunk Deek's argument... |
| [08:47:13] | Deek: | Yes, lets. |
| [08:47:15] | Dagmar: | "Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows [...]" |
| [08:47:32] | justinh: | califdreas: I hate those themes now & I had more than enough nasty emails to make me pull the plug on the lot. and no they ain't ever coming back |
| [08:47:33] | Dagmar: | "It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test." |
| [08:47:38] | Dagmar: | It's _very_ well-defined actually. |
| [08:48:08] | justinh: | hate is a strong word, but probably not strong enough |
| [08:48:18] | Dagmar: | If you're going to avoid _breaking_ the law, rather frequently you have to do a lot of research. |
| [08:48:23] | Dagmar: | Most of them don't make much noise when they snap. |
| [08:48:34] | Dagmar: | You have to listen really closely to hear it sometimes. |
| [08:48:39] | Deek: | heh |
| [08:48:52] | califdreas: | I didn't want to ask, justinh. Just wanted let you know that I liked them. |
| [08:48:54] | Dagmar: | Lemme find a Negativland clip real quick |
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| [08:49:23] | Dagmar: | Here we go |
| [08:49:35] | Dagmar: | The Weatherman of Negativland doing cellular/radio scanning |
| [08:49:38] | Dagmar: | http://youtube.com/watch?v=caBm-1yB4dY |
| [08:51:17] | califdreas: | äh, what? |
| [08:51:26] | Dagmar: | "Yeah we broke the law. Right now at this very instant, didn't we?" |
| [08:51:42] | califdreas: | Won't I go to jail for watching that? |
| [08:52:05] | Dagmar: | They seriously bend the laws with respect to signal interception, but not because of the content of the broadcasts... but because of the texture of the sounds and how they use them in their musical works. heh |
| [08:53:09] | califdreas: | got to keep a low profile until i get my greencard :( |
| [08:53:09] | Dagmar: | califdreas: You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to prosecute, plus one of the issues with the early cell phones was that it was a bit grey still as to whether or not there was anything remotely resembling an expectation of privacy on the part of the cellular phone user who isn't doing anything but broadcasting in the clear. |
| [08:53:22] | Deek: | Dagmar: Copying CDs for your buds is clearly not a fair use, thus the exception in US Code. But the exception does not create a new fair use, only means that you can't be sued for the infringing act. It doesn't help you avoid DMCA prosecution by an overzealous prosecutor. |
| [08:53:59] | Dagmar: | Deek: That's why the SLAPP provisions exist. |
| [08:54:34] | Dagmar: | Arguing that you can't be protected against frivlous lawsuits is a moot point, but SLAPP at least grants people the ability to get their legal fees back and then some. |
| [08:55:01] | califdreas: | you guys lost me a while ago. I think it was right here: [01:45] <Dagmar> Not "outlined". _defined_. |
| [08:55:33] | Dagmar: | Well, the gist of it is that if you work in new/emerging technologies, you often don't have a lot of choice. |
| [08:55:53] | Dagmar: | You don't get to guess at it. You have to go look stuff up to find out if you're actually breaking the law, because it's bloody easy to do it without realizing it. |
| [08:56:07] | Dagmar: | ...but "fair use" is not some undefined thing. It's very well-defined, actually. |
| [08:56:26] | Dagmar: | It's been tested (albiet somewhat expensively) many times. |
| [08:56:31] | justinh: | we don't have any worries about this 'fair use' – we don't have it in our law |
| [08:56:39] | Dagmar: | You have "fair dealing" |
| [08:56:41] | Deek: | califdreas: In law, every word and phrase has a specific meaning, and always carries that meaning. The thing about fair use is that it has somewhat vague boundaries. |
| [08:57:03] | Dagmar: | It's not "vague". |
| [08:57:14] | Dagmar: | Read the damn wikipedia article at least |
| [08:57:24] | Dagmar: | I had to go and read the freaking law books, you've got it easy. |
| [08:57:46] | Dagmar: | It's part of the Copyright Act of 1976. |
| [08:57:49] | Deek: | califdreas: Unlike in real language, when you have a new meaning in law you need a new word/phrase. |
| [08:58:13] | Dagmar: | Since when. |
| [08:58:37] | Deek: | (usually referencing some previous "thing") |
| [08:59:18] | nevyn: | Dagmar: juristiction? |
| [08:59:37] | Dagmar: | huh? |
| [09:00:14] | nevyn: | copyright act of 1976 which juristiction are we talking here? US ? |
| [09:00:23] | califdreas: | absolutely nobody does really know "the law". And if there were no room for interpretation, we would not need these tons of comments accompanying every new legislative act. |
| [09:00:26] | Dagmar: | US Law of course. |
| [09:00:46] | Deek: | califdreas: Fair use was created by the US Supreme Court in order to not invalidate the copyright act. |
| [09:01:10] | Deek: | (the copyright act is, on its face, illegal) |
| [09:01:31] | Dagmar: | You need to stop listening to whoever you're getting your legal interpretations from. |
| [09:01:51] | Deek: | Dagmar: That'd be the decision. |
| [09:02:02] | directhex|work: | Dagmar, billy-bob down at the bar |
| [09:02:05] | Dagmar: | Please feel free to cite *anything* backing that up |
| [09:02:07] | nevyn: | hrm we have an act older than the american one. |
| [09:02:13] | nevyn: | our's is 1968 |
| [09:02:20] | Dagmar: | I say that is just full of what makes the flower grow purty. |
| [09:02:59] | Dagmar: | nevyn: The first US copyright act was in 1700-something |
| [09:03:06] | Dagmar: | 1790 |
| [09:03:28] | Deek: | 1934 |
| [09:03:40] | Dagmar: | That group I mentioned earlier, Negativland, have been in "the sh*t" more times than I can easily count over fair use and parody |
| [09:04:16] | Dagmar: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6gPSSYxex0 <-- the biggest example of such |
| [09:04:40] | Dagmar: | U2 said they were fine with it, which turned out to be a lie, as they had already instructed their lawyers to look for a way to sue |
| [09:04:46] | Dagmar: | ...which made for pretty serious news drama. |
| [09:05:16] | califdreas: | ok guys, i'm outta here. gonna watch some recordings now. |
| [09:05:28] | Dagmar: | We all figured Casey Casem would be the one to sue over it, but apparently he's "got a pair" and will stand behind his words no matter how bad they might look publicly. |
| [09:05:34] | Dagmar: | I have serious respect for that. |
| [09:06:36] | Dagmar: | The lawsuit over that song was part of what got the ball rolling on redress of copyright law with respect to protecting parody as free speech (and therefore a fair use) |
| [09:07:23] | Dagmar: | Copyright isn't just some arbitrary thing designed to enforce monopolies (like it's being used for now) |
| [09:08:11] | justinh: | if that's how the establishment treats it, then that's what it is. not much we can do about it |
| [09:08:26] | Dagmar: | It's meant as a formal declaration of a social contract. The core of which being if someone comes up with something, in exchange for society not just using it willy nilly, the original author (or right's holder) is allowed exclusive use over the created work _for a specific amount of time_ after which the work is *supposed* to go into the public domain, Sonny Bono notwithstanding. |
| [09:08:49] | Deek: | Dagmar: Indeed. |
| [09:09:05] | Dagmar: | justinh: It's current misuse has got a lot to do with why there's so much effort put into smashing copyright protection mechanisms. |
| [09:09:40] | justinh: | there are more important things going on in the world to worry about |
| [09:10:33] | Deek: | Dagmar: s/copyright protection/copy prevention/ — let's call it what it is, shall we? |
| [09:10:38] | Dagmar: | Like obsessing over dead blonde royals? |
| [09:11:00] | Dagmar: | Deek: I said I respect copyright protection. |
| [09:11:01] | justinh: | Dagmar: as if I ever gave a shit about Diana |
| [09:11:05] | Dagmar: | I didnt' say anything about bullshit copy protection. |
| [09:11:26] | Deek: | <Dagmar> justinh: It's current misuse has got a lot to do with why there's so much effort put into smashing copyright protection mechanisms. |
| [09:11:32] | Dagmar: | If I'm engaging in fair use, such mechanisms restrain me about as much as toilet paper. |
| [09:11:35] | Deek: | that's what I was talking about. |
| [09:11:44] | Dagmar: | Now you're just nitpicking |
| [09:12:25] | Dagmar: | But let's face it, rather a great deal of the work that gets done for smashing these onerous restriction mechanisms isn't done by profit-making companies... It's done by pissed off coders. |
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| [09:14:07] | Dagmar: | Deek: These things *do* protect copyright. |
| [09:14:20] | Deek: | I wouldn't call it nitpicking, that's just being accurate. the mechanisms don't protect copyright, they just prevent copying (which is a separate issue). |
| [09:14:25] | Dagmar: | The problem is that they also trample all sort of other reasons for duplicating content in whole or in part. |
| [09:14:48] | Deek: | Copying a work does not harm its copyright. |
| [09:15:01] | Dagmar: | No, but it does *violate* it's copyright. |
| [09:15:20] | Deek: | It infringes it, yes, but doesn't do damage to it. |
| [09:15:26] | Dagmar: | The rights' holder is supposed to have _exclusive_ use of that media (excepting fair use) |
| [09:15:38] | Deek: | content, not media |
| [09:16:14] | Deek: | Or work, if you prefer; the media's just a carrying device for the work. |
| [09:17:59] | Deek: | Hell, your whole tirade is based on my description of a use that is not fair. |
| [09:18:07] | Dagmar: | No, I said media and I mean media. |
| [09:18:27] | nevyn: | Dagmar: excepting fair use is the critical part of that. |
| [09:18:29] | Dagmar: | Buying a song on a tape is separate from buying a song on CD for example. |
| [09:18:45] | nevyn: | the problem is the vast majority of DRM schemes have no provision for fair use at all. |
| [09:18:46] | Dagmar: | You can space-shift at home via fair use, but you're not allowed to take it home and make 40 copies, even if they're all for you. |
| [09:18:54] | nevyn: | not that I have a right to fair use. |
| [09:20:02] | nevyn: | and here mythtv is infringing because it has 30second skip |
| [09:20:45] | Deek: | Dagmar: Copying a protected CD for your friend onto an audio CD-R is a violation of the DMCA, but not an _actionable_ copyright infringement. |
| [09:20:56] | justinh: | mythtv has arbitrary skipping :) |
| [09:21:19] | Deek: | Doing the same thing with an unprotected CD is a non-actionable copyright infringement. |
| [09:21:22] | nevyn: | justinh: yep. |
| [09:21:23] | purserj: | nevyn: timeshifting is allowed in Aus |
| [09:21:46] | Dagmar: | Did you even read what you just typed? |
| [09:21:54] | nevyn: | purserj: my recollection was it was something rediculous like you could skip forward but not back. |
| [09:22:06] | Dagmar: | In neither case was there an "actionable" infringement by what you said. |
| [09:22:27] | Deek: | In both cases, you have not engaged in fair use. In one, however, you are committing a crime. |
| [09:22:44] | Dagmar: | You can be sued for one copy just fine |
| [09:22:53] | Dagmar: | It would just be suicidal for labels to do so |
| [09:22:58] | purserj: | nevyn: they tried to get that through, along with the "watch once only" restriction but I believe it got dumped |
| [09:23:16] | Dagmar: | purserj: That's where we got DivX from, actually |
| [09:23:40] | purserj: | Dagmar: hmm? |
| [09:23:51] | Deek: | Dagmar: technically, if you use audio recording media, it doesn't matter how many copies you make — as long as you don't do it commercially. |
| [09:23:51] | directhex|work: | DIVX discs were rent-to-bin dvds |
| [09:24:05] | directhex|work: | unlockable too, iirc, but only on a per-player basis |
| [09:24:36] | purserj: | Deek: if you're distributing without permission from the original copyright holder then you're in breach |
| [09:24:38] | Dagmar: | Not "audio". "Analog" |
| [09:24:55] | Dagmar: | ...and this is where you're getting burned frem listening to bums in the alley |
| [09:25:20] | Dagmar: | The "industry" was reasonably fine with analog copies because they degrade, so they always had a "value-add" in that originals didn't suffer from signal degradation. |
| [09:25:23] | Deek: | Dagmar: right there in the US Code. |
| [09:25:33] | Deek: | "digital audio recording media" |
| [09:25:45] | Dagmar: | Please cite with context. |
| [09:26:41] | jvs (jvs!n=jvs@cm64-247.liwest.at) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | |
| [09:27:44] | Deek: | 17 USC C10 § 1001–1010 |
| [09:28:35] | Deek: | §1008: "No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings." |
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| [09:29:36] | Dagmar: | http://www.virtualrecordings.com/ahra.htm |
| [09:29:46] | nevyn: | the gigantic fail of DAT. |
| [09:29:57] | Deek: | §1001(4)(A) defines the term "digital audio recording medium" |
| [09:30:05] | Dagmar: | The law does not say what you claim it does. |
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| [09:30:26] | Deek: | A “digital audio recording medium” is any material object in a form commonly distributed for use by individuals, that is primarily marketed or most commonly used by consumers for the purpose of making digital audio copied recordings by use of a digital audio recording device. |
| [09:30:47] | doje (doje!n=doje@cpe-76-90-33-176.socal.res.rr.com) has quit () | |
| [09:31:06] | Dagmar: | So? |
| [09:31:38] | Dagmar: | "(a) Prohibition on importation and manufacture |
| [09:31:38] | Dagmar: | No person shall import into and distribute, or manufacture and distribute, any digital audio recording |
| [09:31:38] | Dagmar: | device or digital audio recording medium unless such person records the notice specified by this section |
| [09:31:38] | Dagmar: | and subsequently deposits the statements of account and applicable royalty payments for such device or |
| [09:31:39] | Dagmar: | medium specified in section 1004." |
| [09:31:48] | Deek: | you know those audio CD-R discs that cost $3 apiece? |
| [09:31:49] | Dagmar: | In fact, it says the exact opposite of what you claim. |
| [09:32:07] | Dagmar: | VHS was where this stuff got hashed out with respect to _analog_ recording media. |
| [09:32:30] | Dagmar: | Industry heads were a lot less willing to concede ground when it came to digital media, because of "perfect digital copies" |
| [09:33:02] | justinh: | perfect. pfft. they're encoded with a lossy format. not what I call perfect damnit |
| [09:33:19] | Dagmar: | justinh: Actually we tested that here kinda early on. |
| [09:33:27] | purserj: | gold plugs! It's not perfect if you're not using gold plugs! |
| [09:33:42] | Dagmar: | Music degrades a bit, but speech you can decode and reencode literally thousands of times before it goes to crap |
| [09:33:53] | justinh: | incase anybody has forgotten this is #mythtv-users |
| [09:34:24] | Deek: | Dagmar: Regardless, as long as you use the designated digital audio recording media ("audio CD-R", which cost about $3 each) you are free from lawsuits, but if you break encryption to do it you're still committing a crime. |
| [09:34:26] | Dagmar: | There was this old vinyl I had which had some guy talking about the acoustics of the room, and what he was doing was talking and recording his little speech, then playing it back and recording that to show how it degrades over iterations and becomes simply the sounds of the natural resonant frequenccies of the room. |
| [09:34:26] | purserj: | right, well in that case I shall share a tale of a family member talking out his butt with regards to myth |
| [09:34:29] | Dagmar: | It was pretty hypnotic. |
| [09:34:42] | Dagmar: | The same thing did not work worth a damn for mp3<->wav for instancce. |
| [09:35:02] | Dagmar: | We ran 8000 duplications of a 30 second bit of speech, and basically, all we got was it sounding a little fuzzier. |
| [09:35:16] | Dagmar: | ...and that was using 128kbps rate |
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| [09:35:25] | purserj: | my uncle likes to think of himself as the tech geek of the family and is using a couple of all in one media centre boxes to manage his home entertainment system. My mother brought up my myth system and how well it seemed to work with regards to quality and so on |
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| [09:36:21] | Dagmar: | 8000 dupes of a 30 second bit of music made it sound like a cheap FM radio, but it was still very recognizable. We were really hoping for something bordering on the abstract, like when you crank jpeg compression way, way up and get a cubist nightmare. |
| [09:36:22] | purserj: | My uncle, in what appears to be an attempt to dismiss something that might challenge his status as tech guru proceeded to tell her that myth couldn't possibly handle high definition without spending up big on the latest and greatest graphics hardware |
| [09:36:41] | Dagmar: | To get the sound we wanted we had to basically artificially degrade the recordings by violence. |
| [09:36:51] | Deek: | Dagmar: Obviously, not many people care about this any more because hard drives are way cheaper. :) |
| [09:37:42] | justinh: | Dagmar: you should hear minidisc after 5 or 6 generations |
| [09:37:50] | Dagmar: | Deek: Dunno where you're paying $3 apiece for those |
| [09:38:12] | Dagmar: | justinh: Tried that. Once you eliminate a few obvious technical issues, that one doesn't do all that badly either. |
| [09:38:16] | Dagmar: | It's very irritaing. |
| [09:38:18] | justinh: | Dagmar: deek was talking about 'audio' CD blanks – the non-tax-free ones |
| [09:38:19] | Deek: | Dagmar: yeah, I know they're really more like $1 each |
| [09:38:22] | Dagmar: | We wanted something like a cylon on crack. |
| [09:38:41] | justinh: | Dagmar: turn up the noise reduction too high in Audacity :P |
| [09:38:47] | Dagmar: | Oh I know |
| [09:39:02] | Dagmar: | I've got all kinds of nice filters through the emu10k1 on my SBLive card for this sort of thing |
| [09:39:35] | Dagmar: | It still kills me that that chip used to be almost identical to what made the Alesis Quadraverb "go" and it cost a mint |
| [09:40:23] | Dagmar: | Remmebner, I used to do a radio mix show and probably more than a dozen times I wound up just dragging my computer to the station and hooking it up as a partial passthru so I could do manipulations in realtime or near realtime |
| [09:40:48] | Dagmar: | Having trouble getting a new record synched? Grab a loop with the sampler, start it playing, fade that in, and then you have all the time you need |
| [09:41:29] | justinh: | I had fun trying out Mixx over the weekend |
| [09:41:41] | Dagmar: | mixx.com?? |
| [09:42:16] | justinh: | nah dj mixy thingy |
| [09:42:22] | Dagmar: | Oh, okay |
| [09:42:31] | justinh: | mixxx.org |
| [09:42:50] | justinh: | like tracktor & pcdj but erm.. not shit |
| [09:43:08] | Dagmar: | I still don't know if I want to buy the same kit my gf has |
| [09:43:24] | Dagmar: | I'm going to definitely have to put some thought into it, or score a paying gig (which I'd rather not do) |
| [09:44:09] | Dagmar: | These smpte-coded vinyls are nice and all, but they don't make a very interesting sound if you wobble them in front of a mic. |
| [09:44:32] | Dagmar: | :) |
| [09:44:53] | justinh: | turntables are for dinosoars |
| [09:44:55] | Dagmar: | I need to find another "zoob tube". I wish they were more commonly for sale |
| [09:44:57] | Dagmar: | Pfft. |
| [09:45:13] | Dagmar: | CD players are for people who lack hand-eye coordination., |
| [09:45:14] | reviloot1eg (reviloot1eg!n=oliver@130.75.237.231) has quit ("leaving") | |
| [09:45:22] | Dagmar: | ...and people with no rhtyhm. |
| [09:45:45] | Dagmar: | Mic each end of one of these things: http://zubetube.com/ |
| [09:45:48] | justinh: | I disagree. they're as hard to mix with as records |
| [09:46:07] | Dagmar: | Not when you've got a button to mash that says "beat match for me daddy" |
| [09:46:12] | justinh: | harder, depending on the software in the player |
| [09:46:31] | justinh: | Dagmar: they never get it right enough to do a long running mix with though |
| [09:46:51] | justinh: | and producers are still doing beat-losing edits in dance tracks |
| [09:46:52] | Dagmar: | This is where I'm good with my vinyl. |
| [09:47:20] | Dagmar: | Meh. I'm not even going to comment on what typically passes for "dance mix" cds |
| [09:47:41] | justinh: | same here, but they're hardly compact. I used to card around 500 vinyls every night |
| [09:48:04] | justinh: | I wasn't talking about those mix cds either |
| [09:48:06] | Dagmar: | You should do like I did. Get a large bag with wheels on ot. :) |
| [09:48:29] | justinh: | large bags with wheels don't do stairs |
| [09:48:44] | Dagmar: | That's what groupies are for |
| [09:48:58] | Dagmar: | ...and "trustworthy hangers on" |
| [09:49:16] | justinh: | stil lhave to carry the damn stuff to the car from home though :P |
| [09:49:33] | Dagmar: | If the sheer mass of the vinyls wern't almost enough to kill me, I'd have brought the computer to teh station more often |
| [09:49:44] | Dagmar: | Most of the time I just did my edits and home and used something lightweight to play 'em back |
| [09:49:59] | justinh: | as for the fawning, always hand-shaking idiots who 'appreciate' ths stuff – I always wished they'd just fuck off & leave me to it |
| [09:50:19] | Dagmar: | I found a solution to that, actually. |
| [09:50:26] | Dagmar: | Have them try to DJ for a month or two |
| [09:50:27] | justinh: | a taser? |
| [09:50:49] | Dagmar: | My gf's attitude about talking to DJs "while the ride is still in motion" changed in a matter of weeks |
| [09:50:52] | justinh: | loved Djing. hated the crowds. idiots, the lot of them |
| [09:51:18] | Dagmar: | "Damnit can't these people tell I'm trying to mix these things?? Why do they insist on interrupting me!?!" |
| [09:51:25] | justinh: | there's one thing worse than pissed up idiots. idiots on ketamine, E or speed (or all the above) |
| [09:51:27] | Dagmar: | I was rolling on the floor over that |
| [09:51:58] | Dagmar: | She used to get on my case about being short with people trying to pass compliments. |
| [09:52:31] | Dagmar: | "If I let them come up and thank me while I'm doing it, I'm much less likely to be doing something worthy of being thanked *for* baby" |
| [09:52:54] | justinh: | I never did quite get what it was about some people insisting on the hand shaking. you're sweating your nuts off – there's condensation running down the walls & these idiots have freezing cold hands |
| [09:53:17] | Dagmar: | It's because they just came in from outside and haven't really been putting any effort into dancing |
| [09:53:25] | justinh: | nope |
| [09:53:48] | Dagmar: | I mean, I used to run home, shower and change clothes, but I always hated the poseurs who'd show up at 2:00–2:30am, fresh as a daisy, acting like they've been there all night |
| [09:54:55] | justinh: | last time I went clubbing you couldn't go to the loo because of the queue for the cubicles. waiting in line to do their coke out of sight |
| [09:55:03] | Dagmar: | Heheh |
| [09:55:23] | justinh: | I heard they have powerful ceiling fans these days |
| [09:55:43] | Dagmar: | "Everyone in the queue waiting to do a line, please realize that *most* of your are here to do a line, so just do one off your wrist and let the rest of us pee. Thank you." |
| [09:55:59] | Dagmar: | <-- is enough of an asshole to say that. |
| [09:56:23] | Dagmar: | justinh: That's not a bad idea |
| [09:56:59] | Dagmar: | I've definitely gone into the bathroom and said "Everyone too high to find their way out of the stall, please say something and a rescue crew will be dispatched to help you." |
| [09:57:08] | justinh: | cutting their coke with heroin wouldn't be a bad idea either. sort them out one way or the other |
| [09:57:44] | justinh: | as for the Ket heads. jesus just put them all down |
| [09:58:18] | EvilGuru: | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4182845.stm & mdash; one way of cutting down on coke |
| [09:58:25] | Dagmar: | Those people I jut don't "get" |
| [09:58:40] | Dagmar: | Tehre's plenny of drugs out there wot have no built in "k-hole" |
| [09:59:07] | justinh: | k-hole, aka Tuesday |
| [09:59:15] | Dagmar: | hahah |
| [09:59:54] | justinh: | I had enough of seeing (and being hassled by) munters with no taste in _anything_ ;) |
| [10:00:36] | Saviq: | justinh: once I set the new thing up properly, I'll try and get you the logs |
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| [10:05:02] | Dibblah: | Meh. Beat matching is properly done with a wiimote. ;) |
| [10:05:45] | Saviq: | on another note... is there a good solution for grouping channels by providers? I could use several video sources and input providers, but that could mean not being able to record two channels from the same multiplex, 'cause the input group would forbid that, or am I wrong? |
| [10:06:03] | Saviq: | s/input providers/input connections/ |
| [10:06:24] | justinh: | Saviq: input groups are (kind of) on their way but multirec broke the patch |
| [10:06:33] | justinh: | er.. channel groups I meant |
| [10:08:25] | Saviq: | is the input group 'higher' in the decision-making process of determining if we can record the channel, or will mythtv see that the multiplex is the same and record regardless of the input group? |
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| [10:10:25] | justinh: | no – input groups are to stop myth trying to use inputs which can't be used at the same time |
| [10:10:45] | justinh: | e.g. composite & svideo on one tuner card |
| [10:10:57] | Saviq: | or a diseq switch |
| [10:11:01] | justinh: | yeah |
| [10:11:58] | justinh: | gbee: just the man. I'm gonna have a stab at making a radial fill widget for a progress indicator. all this flipbook nonsense has gone on long enough |
| [10:15:47] | gbee: | justinh: I was going to look at putting something together which would allow a pie chart progress bar effect |
| [10:15:47] | justinh: | I know it's 'more versatile' to have bitmaps for every state of an animation but it's a PITA to make them |
| [10:16:39] | justinh: | I went as far as reading some qt docs yesterday – doesn't look like a big deal but whether or not it'd be possible to do a radial 'wipe' effect on any graphic (as opposed to a gradient fill) is unclear for now |
| [10:17:15] | gbee: | <progressbar><fill>{vertical, horizontal,pie}</fill></progressbar> |
| [10:17:50] | justinh: | yeah that's what I was thinking. might be easy to add the radial fill to the widget, might not |
| [10:19:52] | justinh: | maybe I wouldn't be so anti flipbook if I could animate as well as I can doodle static pngs :P |
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| [10:20:49] | Dagmar: | Learn about tweening |
| [10:21:35] | Dagmar: | If you can do static pages, you can probably do animations--once you get over the idea that the work is generally increased directly by number of frames * 75% or so |
| [10:21:40] | gbee: | the flipbook animation is more versatile, e.g. Mepo could have the little guy running on the spot in the busy dialog |
| [10:21:50] | justinh: | mepo could go to hell :) |
| [10:22:04] | Dagmar: | gbee: Wouldn't it be better to have him just gobbling down a bucket full of deep fried RAM sticks? |
| [10:22:15] | justinh: | gbee: *if anybody had a sequence of frames depicting that ;) |
| [10:22:17] | gbee: | heh |
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| [10:41:07] | justinh: | hmm won't get past reboot eh? bull! |
| [10:41:29] | justinh: | must be ENOCLUE on a manager's part |
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| [11:07:33] | dustybin: | im going to convert all my FLACs into MP3s keeping the id tags, can a IPOD sort out all my music collection using the id tags? or would i need to keep all my music in directory structure of albums etc ? |
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| [11:11:47] | dustybin: | heres a flac to mp3 script if anyones interested |
| [11:11:50] | dustybin: | http://paste.linux-noob.com/index.php?query=2532 |
| [11:13:22] | Dibblah: | %SYS-E-BUYMOREDISKS% |
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| [11:32:54] | justinh: | why the linux-noob part of that url? is it so people take pity on the poster before reading the posts? |
| [11:35:08] | Saviq: | and how's that related to myhttv? |
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| [11:38:32] | justinh: | woo almost clicked on 'hp launches Eee pc rival', then saw 'powered by via' |
| [11:39:35] | Saviq: | lol |
| [11:40:01] | Saviq: | I just read that the 9" Eee prolly won't be powered by atom, after all |
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| [11:43:48] | justinh: | munching away on my lunch, thinking about how to get more people contributing to & maintaining themes – maybe start documenting it better. oft considered an 'anatomy of a theme' thing. wonder if that'll help people too scared to even try it |
| [11:49:04] | gbee: | justinh: a guide to what elements are required and optional on each screen would be good |
| [11:49:35] | gbee: | pain to initially create, but once done it wouldn't be too hard to maintain |
| [11:50:04] | justinh: | I'm not even sure what's optional on each screen. I generally comment stuff out & if it doesn't make the frontend puke .... |
| [11:50:35] | gbee: | yeah, requires looking at the code to know what possible elements are |
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| [11:51:12] | justinh: | from the recent messing about with glass-wide I've done, seems 0.21 is a lot better at reporting/handling problems in the xml files than it used to be though |
| [11:53:00] | gbee: | mythui should be even better, I'm sticking to a format that I'll encourage (with beatings) everyone to stick to, that means all required elements must be checked before we add the screen to the stack |
| [11:53:53] | justinh: | btw I had a good look at removing a lot of duplication in ui.xml with contexts, but the classes involved didn't support the context stuff |
| [11:54:27] | justinh: | couldn't figure out how to get round that so I left it alone. seemed like a lot of work when it'd all be undone with mythui anyway :) |
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| [11:54:40] | gbee: | at this point it's not worth bothering, what with mythui in the works |
| [11:55:30] | gbee: | starting to realise just what a massive task I've taken on with mythui though, some screens are simple, they might even be completed in an hour – but others could take days |
| [11:55:35] | justinh: | other stuff in my plan is still likely to go ahead though – a much improved autoexpiry list |
| [11:55:44] | pbj: | A question. I want to connect an external tuner using the Svideo input in a Hauppauge PVR500 – But on the satelitetuner – there's only RGB or Scart output. What do I do about the sound – Kan I still take that using the Audio RGB input ??? |
| [11:56:06] | justinh: | pbj: yeah. same audio inputs for svideo as for composite |
| [11:56:52] | justinh: | sounds like you'll be stuck with composite unless the STB can output YC on the SCART socket. not many can |
| [11:57:52] | justinh: | gbee: it was never going to be an overnight job. to redo some widgets & possibly combining some to gain commonality might require lots of deep thought ;) |
| [11:58:08] | pbj: | GREAT – getting really tired of the bad picture. Solved the other problem. STB should NOT have a default channel – even though its mention in mythtv-setup help!! Don't think Mine can! |
| [11:58:45] | pbj: | But hopefully getting a better ( Much better ) picture when using Svideo instead of RGB |
| [11:58:57] | justinh: | pbj: every source needs a channel to start on. that very quickly becomes 'the last channel used on that input' though |
| [12:00:21] | justinh: | gbee: from my own PoV, whittling ui.xml down to 3 or 4 basic views will be great. if anything could benefit from contextualisation, that file is it |
| [12:01:11] | justinh: | programme guide. livetv programme guide. recorded shows programme guide, watch recordings, jump to recordings... it's a mare |
| [12:01:25] | Dagmar: | Holy crap when the ffmpeg devs get to chatting on their mailing list, they really run on at the mouth |
| [12:01:48] | justinh: | then with the other screens which are basically identical (upcoming, previous, search results, priorities.. ) |
| [12:03:45] | justinh: | wow. £5.0 for my epia board? knock yourselves out guys! |
| [12:03:50] | justinh: | £5.50 even |
| [12:04:30] | justinh: | ach, it's not as if I was ever gonna use it again |
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| [12:09:03] | brett: | anyone able to give me hand to fix freezing on livetv program transition? |
| [12:09:38] | justinh: | on what? 0.19? ;) |
| [12:09:58] | justinh: | thought that bug was long gone already |
| [12:10:00] | brett: | latest and greatest |
| [12:10:13] | brett: | 0.21 |
| [12:11:12] | justinh: | backend log? |
| [12:11:53] | Freman: | Anyone able to help me fix not being able to tune one channel in mythtv when I can with tzap |
| [12:12:20] | brett: | http://pastebin.ca/976745 |
| [12:13:48] | justinh: | ahh selective logging :( |
| [12:14:06] | brett: | do I need to enable more verbose logging? |
| [12:14:11] | brett: | and if so, how so |
| [12:14:15] | justinh: | that wasn't what I meant |
| [12:14:26] | justinh: | I meant ENOTENOUGHLOG |
| [12:14:47] | brett: | oh, how long do you want? |
| [12:15:14] | justinh: | a while before and a while after the show transition might help |
| [12:15:47] | justinh: | ordinarily I might joke it's because you have MythTaste installed :P |
| [12:15:59] | gbee: | frontend log might help too |
| [12:16:20] | justinh: | ladette to lady.. just cut out the middleman – record it & delete without watching :P |
| [12:17:25] | brett: | http://pastebin.ca/976749 |
| [12:17:30] | brett: | yes, I know |
| [12:17:35] | brett: | its the other half |
| [12:17:56] | brett: | she also likes to switch channels in the ad breaks |
| [12:19:11] | justinh: | Dr Justinh prescribes a £20 Freeview box |
| [12:20:00] | brett: | eh? |
| [12:21:01] | directhex|bsp: | those aren't pvr usage patterns. she may as well just skip the pvr and use a cheap stb |
| [12:21:09] | justinh: | give the mrs a freeview box & let her zap the living daylights out of it |
| [12:21:30] | brett: | hehe, okay, but the problems occur when we don't skip around as well |
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| [12:21:44] | justinh: | 1st line of suspects.. the signal quality |
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| [12:23:10] | brett: | we do have a low signal, but we never get breaks or skips in the program |
| [12:23:11] | brett: | s |
| [12:23:34] | justinh: | I'd break out tzap with mythbackend stopped |
| [12:23:41] | justinh: | see what the numbers look like |
| [12:24:02] | mkrufky-away: | (or run femon with myth running) |
| [12:24:56] | pbj: | justinh: I know – But couldn't see TV oir change channel – it just went back to MENU – before I removed the default channel ( not start channel) |
| [12:25:55] | pbj: | in mythtv-setup help – says – when a external tuner is connected – the default input channel are 3 or 4 ! I needed tp remove this number before getting it to work |
| [12:26:21] | mkrufky-away is now known as mkrufky | |
| [12:26:52] | brett: | right – status 1f | signal 6200 | snr 5a00 | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK |
| [12:27:30] | gbee: | brett: can you pastebin a frontend log? |
| [12:27:46] | Dagmar: | *gasp* |
| [12:27:49] | Dagmar: | It is forbidden! |
| [12:28:07] | ** Dagmar runs for the emergency shelter. ** | |
| [12:29:52] | brett: | http://pastebin.ca/976761 |
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| [12:32:21] | spe3c: | Greetings. Got new hardware to run my mythtv on since 0.21 doesn't run on via EPIAs. AMD 64 CPU, had to fight the installer, it kept locking up or kernel panicing. Finally got an install, and now a good number of binaries are segfault'ing. Anyone hear of this ? |
| [12:33:58] | directhex|bsp: | what installer? |
| [12:34:34] | spe3c: | AMD64 installer. initially I used the 32bit one, that seemed to work fine |
| [12:34:44] | directhex|bsp: | amd64 installer for what? |
| [12:35:08] | spe3c: | the mythbuntu CD iso installers |
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| [12:35:38] | directhex|bsp: | well, that only took 5 minutes |
| [12:35:42] | directhex|bsp: | sounds like bad RAM |
| [12:35:57] | spe3c: | yeah I am running the memtest now, off the installer |
| [12:36:30] | spe3c: | currently at 3000+ errors |
| [12:36:37] | justinh: | heh I'm always forgetting about femon |
| [12:37:11] | brett: | femon? |
| [12:37:11] | directhex|bsp: | 3000? |
| [12:37:16] | justinh: | status 1f | signal 002d | snr ffff | ber 00000000 | unc 00000000 | FE_HAS_LOCK – it's like I live next door to the mast (I don't, btw) |
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| [12:37:43] | justinh: | the 'low' signal there is because the driver lies |
| [12:37:54] | justinh: | it gives ffff with the aerial unplugged :) |
| [12:38:04] | directhex|bsp: | ffffuck's sake! |
| [12:38:19] | justinh: | I should send in a patch but CBA |
| [12:38:24] | brett: | I've done two "upgrades" of ubuntu without doing clean installs, would some stuffup with a separate binary be causing the issues? |
| [12:38:44] | brett: | (i've heard that clean install is preferable to upgrades) |
| [12:38:51] | Dagmar: | 3000 errors? |
| [12:39:02] | spe3c: | The # of errors continue to grow *sigh*.... last time I looked was up to 9000 |
| [12:39:11] | justinh: | one error in memtest would be bad news |
| [12:39:13] | Dagmar: | Damn dude, you have major issues |
| [12:39:24] | Dagmar: | You can pretty much stop it now. |
| [12:39:31] | Dagmar: | Did you buy _matched_ sticks of RAM? |
| [12:39:35] | gbee: | these days upgrades are pretty safe, depends on the distro though |
| [12:39:40] | directhex|bsp: | spe3c, 1 error per 72 hours is too many |
| [12:39:46] | justinh: | MOAR_RAMCOOLINGFINZ |
| [12:40:12] | Dagmar: | Using the RAM in dual-channel configuration, you generally want to buy RAM sold _as_ matched pairs, just to be safe. |
| [12:40:16] | spe3c: | yes macthed. 2 pairs of 1 gig sticks |
| [12:40:21] | Dagmar: | You have to do weird things with loosening timings otherwise. |
| [12:40:28] | justinh: | if you'd OC'd the living hell out of everything I could prolly understand... |
| [12:40:29] | directhex|bsp: | try individual sticks |
| [12:40:33] | Dagmar: | OKay, if your board can handle using just ONE stick at a time, it's time to test each stick. |
| [12:40:36] | directhex|bsp: | i.e. test with 1 stick, test with the other |
| [12:40:45] | Dagmar: | Pray one works and the other doesn't. |
| [12:40:51] | spe3c: | Dagmar: Thats what I was thinking |
| [12:41:04] | directhex|bsp: | dead ram is more common than you'd think |
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| [12:41:09] | justinh: | try running the test without the loose screw underneath the motherboard too :) |
| [12:41:11] | Dagmar: | Otherwise, that one comes down to a bad CPU, bad PSU, or bad motherboard (tiny chance) |
| [12:41:18] | gbee: | brett: nothing in those logs to indicate a known or unknown mythtv fault, so I'll leave you in the capable hands of justinh |
| [12:41:37] | Dagmar: | Oh and the good news is that after you sort the RAM issue, you might as well go ahead and zero out the hard drive and start over. |
| [12:41:40] | Dagmar: | heh |
| [12:42:17] | Dagmar: | Depending on the motherboard, this might just be a matter of needing a BIOS upgrade to handle that particular type of RAM correctly (by getting the CPU voltage/type right), but one never knows |
| [12:42:23] | spe3c: | well new hardware.. no issue there.. only done it 15+ times already ;) then I get to tackle the ATI graphics card fun, when everything works |
| [12:42:58] | Dagmar: | Anyone got the name of that Hauppauge HD unit that's coming out in the summer that has component input? |
| [12:43:15] | directhex|bsp: | hd pvr |
| [12:43:17] | directhex|bsp: | i think |
| [12:43:26] | Dagmar: | Got it |
| [12:43:27] | Dagmar: | thanks |
| [12:43:45] | brett: | so justinh, any ideas? Anything I should try (apart from a fresh install) |
| [12:43:51] | dustybin: | link of the day: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title . . . der_settings |
| [12:43:55] | brett: | oh, I am compiling from source btw |
| [12:44:13] | justinh: | arghh feck. my nuts are for the block. a board which was found to be 'faulty' was actually one which went out un-programmed. no JTAG, no life |
| [12:45:01] | justinh: | brett: don't reckon a fresh install will do anything for you other than give you plenty to do |
| [12:45:47] | justinh: | maybe try playing with the tuning timeout settings... |
| [12:46:10] | brett: | cool, thanks for all the help |
| [12:46:41] | justinh: | your other half obviously has some kind of patience if she's willing to put up with the long time myth takes to change channels so why not sit her down in front of the guide & record everything she could possibly want to watch instead? ;) |
| [12:47:15] | justinh: | there's _always_ something better to do than waste hours every day surfing channels :) |
| [12:47:21] | brett: | hehe |
| [12:48:08] | brett: | thats the point, she doesn't want to record some things if she isn't home to watch them |
| [12:48:12] | justinh: | our mythbox at home has no 'watch tv' in the menus. any time we do watch tv live is when we've got a few minutes to kill before going somewhere |
| [12:48:22] | justinh: | brett: so wtf is the point in having a pvr? |
| [12:48:32] | brett: | note, i said "some things" |
| [12:48:53] | justinh: | just think.. no more adverts! |
| [12:48:54] | brett: | one ramsay kitchen nightmare is exactly the same as the other so if home, will watch, otherwise, cbf'd |
| [12:49:31] | justinh: | we got talking to people at the bar on holiday (as you do) – they started going on about some advert or other. we just looked at them blankly |
| [12:50:11] | brett: | yah, ads do suck the big ones, worst is channel 10 here in oz |
| [12:50:48] | justinh: | then one of the buggers wheeled his laptop out & got the ad up from youtube – the Cadbury ad with the gorilla (monkey, as thick annoying bloke called it). oh how we laughed :-\ |
| [12:51:10] | ** justinh sends some Sheila's Wheels jingles to Oz ** | |
| [12:51:24] | jduggan: | lol @ it being a monkey |
| [12:52:39] | justinh: | brett: one more thing – while frantically zapping from channel to channel do you ever see a message like "you should have gotten a lock by now... " ? |
| [12:52:49] | brett: | sometimes, very rarely |
| [12:53:05] | spe3c: | maybe it would of helped if I had actually bought Dual Channel memory *sigh* I am such an idiot sometimes. |
| [12:53:16] | justinh: | brett: is this a fresh install or an upgrade? |
| [12:54:02] | justinh: | brett: and your tuner... what kind is it? hardware CAM or all FTA channels? |
| [12:54:15] | brett: | dvb-t fta |
| [12:54:29] | justinh: | brett: modern-ish card? |
| [12:54:43] | brett: | 1 – 2 years old |
| [12:54:44] | justinh: | make/model ? |
| [12:54:59] | brett: | twinhan 3056 and a realtek winfast 2000h |
| [12:55:13] | brett: | but was happening on the twinhan 3056 before I put in the realtek |
| [12:55:24] | justinh: | just wondering if the multirec goodness is doing anything funky the card doesn't like |
| [12:55:33] | brett: | this happened on 0.19 as well |
| [12:55:42] | justinh: | ahh well rules that out then |
| [12:55:51] | justinh: | what about kaffeine et al? they work ok? |
| [12:56:18] | brett: | dunno, only use mythtv |
| [12:56:35] | justinh: | heh the penny just dropped about you being curious about the £20 freeview box prescription earlier. doh! |
| [12:56:45] | justinh: | try other apps & see how they go |
| [12:57:15] | brett: | but it only occurs for program transition, so if kaffeine is just reading the stream direct, then no transition |
| [12:57:50] | justinh: | that log output looked more like zapping around frantically than anything else |
| [12:58:29] | brett: | hmm, would it be some obscure setting in the mythconverg db somewhere? |
| [12:58:41] | brett: | I might try wiping the db |
| [12:58:42] | justinh: | IMHO it's still a good idea to get into the habit of recording stuff more anyway |
| [12:59:39] | brett: | oh well, at the end of the day, its only tv, have a good one and thanks for the help |
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| [13:11:18] | natoka: | re |
| [13:12:11] | natoka: | i've got something really strange here |
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| [13:12:38] | Dagmar: | Hair growing there is normal, and still off-topic for here. |
| [13:12:38] | justinh: | "got any leeches for _this_ ?" |
| [13:13:27] | Dagmar: | Dear god as if there wasn't enough stupid online already, someone's got a blog article talking about CNN anchors using "racist body language" |
| [13:13:32] | Dagmar: | Well... |
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| [13:13:52] | Dagmar: | I suppose once I'm out of the office and at home I'll put together a response designed to cause someone to have a stroke. |
| [13:14:17] | natoka: | i've created a daily recording schedule with mythweb, and it gets recorded and shows up as a recording in mythweb, though in mythfrontend I don't find it in any media list |
| [13:14:33] | justinh: | racist body.. language? wtf?!?! |
| [13:14:38] | Dagmar: | justinh: Exactly. |
| [13:14:50] | justinh: | natoka: it's a faq in the wiki |
| [13:14:51] | Dagmar: | justinh: Look down memestreams.net and you'll see the link to the blog post |
| [13:15:08] | gbee: | natoka: press MENU in watch recordings screen, "Change Group Filter" and select "All Programmes" |
| [13:16:14] | justinh: | Dagmar: that blog is a wind-up, right? |
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| [13:16:38] | Dagmar: | If not, I'm going to be posting some really vitriolic stuff for no useful reason |
| [13:16:48] | Dagmar: | I'll have to look at it closer to make sure it's not a baiting act I guess |
| [13:17:15] | justinh: | just saw 'digital monkeys – a primative perspective'.. seems a bit suss |
| [13:17:25] | natoka: | justinh: thx |
| [13:18:19] | natoka: | Dagmar: just to pump up the situation you should invite others to blog there too ... |
| [13:18:29] | Dagmar: | My response will be a graceful construction of scorn and disgust, limned with hatred and resting on a base of utter contempt, with a rich crust of jewel-like obscenities adorning each light-reflecting surface. |
| [13:18:58] | Dagmar: | natoka: No, I wanna make sure my torrent of rage gets top billing. ;) |
| [13:19:32] | Dagmar: | Some people have a natural gift for diplomacy, some women can make any man think they're in love with them. |
| [13:19:48] | Dagmar: | My uncanny talent is a little different |
| [13:20:03] | Dagmar: | I can drive strangers into apoplexy with just a few moment's preparation. |
| [13:20:24] | justinh: | in any eventuality it's a little disconcerting that blog exists at all, yay for free speech |
| [13:20:30] | natoka: | ^^ you need a moment of preparation? |
| [13:21:10] | Dagmar: | natoka: One always has to try a few off-center phrasings and get a few test responses so that one may map out "where the person lives", so to speak. |
| [13:21:22] | justinh: | it's such a pity the verb sounds more like a bodily function than what it actually is, anyway ;) |
| [13:21:30] | Dagmar: | Sometimes it's a comment about their sister. Sometimes it's a direct challenge to their masculinity. |
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| [13:21:49] | Dagmar: | Sometimes, when the person is really receptive, you only have to say something about their kitchen decor and they'll act as if you just threatened their life. |
| [13:23:31] | natoka: | sounds like the inverse of dale carnegie |
| [13:23:52] | justinh: | lol |
| [13:24:34] | natoka: | probably quite easy to get right ... |
| [13:24:46] | Dagmar: | When you want to really pwn someone, blogs are great. You can dig around through weeks of stuff and find out exactly what pisses them off, and then post as an amalgam of everyone who ever made them mad. |
| [13:25:18] | justinh: | maybe there should be a book on "how to make sure your feature request / grip is even listened to" |
| [13:25:26] | justinh: | s/grip/gripe |
| [13:26:30] | justinh: | aka "how to ask nicely without coming across like a selfish asshole" |
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| [13:39:32] | ** jarle is having trouble locating a motherboard with a lot of PCI ports and built in S/PDIF out... ** | |
| [13:40:27] | directhex|bsp: | lots of PCI ports is history |
| [13:40:48] | iamlindoro_: | This isn't another one of those "I want a Micro-ATX board with 12 PCI slots, is it?" :) |
| [13:40:56] | directhex|bsp: | iamlindoro_, and a pony! |
| [13:41:05] | iamlindoro_: | OMG PONIEZ |
| [13:41:27] | directhex|bsp: | iamlindoro_, http://www.magma.com/products/pci/13PCI/ |
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| [13:42:05] | iamlindoro_: | Eeeexcellent |
| [13:43:44] | rambo3: | sup |
| [13:44:06] | rambo3: | any chess for myth yet? |
| [13:44:07] | janneg: | jarle: GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G has 5 pci slots and S/PDIF header |
| [13:44:30] | rambo3: | thats 4 slots too much |
| [13:45:14] | justinh: | rambo3: same amount of mythtv plugins for chess as there were 3 years ago. you not finished coding yours yet?! |
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| [13:45:35] | iamlindoro_: | rambo3: Figured you'd still be too busy "installing mediaportal on myth." |
| [13:46:38] | rambo3: | i did i extracted mediportal ino myth plugins directory , and when i start it it says segfoult |
| [13:47:19] | directhex|bsp: | rambo3 admitted yesterday he's just here to troll |
| [13:47:30] | iamlindoro_: | Well there you have it folks, sometimes they come out from under bridges |
| [13:47:35] | directhex|bsp: | or maybe it was the day before |
| [13:47:38] | iamlindoro_: | directhex|bsp: Ha, ,great minds think alike |
| [13:47:43] | directhex|bsp: | suffice to say, it's in the logs |
| [13:48:29] | rambo3: | you must be new on this channel |
| [13:48:32] | directhex|bsp: | Apr 04 15:00:08 <joomla_user> I use mediaportal with chess game . don't have need for myth right now , just trolling here from time to time. I dont like mediaportal 2 so i think ill change when they stop supporting v 1.0 |
| [13:48:34] | justinh: | gbee: been thinking some more about the radial fill malarkey – might be possible to paint a new Qpixmap with the same dimensions as the base image then use that as the pixmap mask for the onscreen image, with alpha premultiplied (or not?) |
| [13:48:34] | directhex|bsp: | there we go |
| [13:49:17] | directhex|bsp: | Apr 03 17:26:05 * joomla_user (i=Prdonja@c-a0f871d5.027-6-6b73641.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se ) has joined #mythtv-users |
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| [13:49:27] | directhex|bsp: | in case it wasn't clear |
| [13:49:29] | iamlindoro_: | directhex|bsp: Yar, was here when it happened ;) |
| [13:50:14] | gbee: | justinh: maybe, I really don't know until I look at what QImage/QPixmap are capable of in QT4 and how we'd integrate that into mythimage |
| [13:50:45] | justinh: | gbee: maybe a use for XORing too, but the edges might be a bit hard |
| [13:51:22] | justinh: | some overloading will be needed AFAICT |
| [13:51:41] | justinh: | ok I'll stop talking bollocks now :) |
| [13:52:01] | justinh: | reading qt docs beats working |
| [13:52:09] | directhex|bsp: | Captain_Murdoch, jams, GreyFoxx, Beirdo, time to use your +o powers for good, not evil |
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| [13:53:12] | justinh: | is somebody weakly bleating about a chess plugin every once in a blue moon really that much of a pest? I mean – could be worse ;) |
| [13:53:36] | directhex|bsp: | justinh, it's not weak bleating though, it's lame trolling |
| [13:53:41] | directhex|bsp: | justinh, so just ban the twat |
| [13:54:06] | justinh: | if there were already a chess plugin it'd probably 'suck' anyway.. not as good as Deep Blue etc... |
| [13:54:21] | iamlindoro_: | Then we could start a wiki page! |
| [13:54:28] | Dagmar: | Considering this is the third incident of such trolling I've seen from those two... |
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| [13:54:45] | rambo3: | newbes . |
| [13:55:05] | justinh: | rambo3 has been coming here for a long time, asking the same thing |
| [13:55:05] | justinh: | part of the channel now |
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| [13:55:51] | iamlindoro_: | He's in a remote part of Sweden where the only things to do are troll #mythtv-users and molest sheep... and all the sheep have run off |
| [13:56:04] | Dagmar: | Time to skin him and make a lampshade, trhen. |
| [13:56:16] | justinh: | as far as trolling goes, he's not on my list of hate-fueled flame-baiters that's for sure |
| [13:56:21] | iamlindoro_: | It puts the lotion on its skin |
| [13:56:22] | rambo3: | iamlindoro_, son your mother wasnt a sheep |
| [13:56:57] | iamlindoro_: | I weep for the swedish educational system-- the best he can do is a "yo momma" joke? |
| [13:56:58] | Dagmar: | Grr... stupid digest auth |
| [13:57:28] | justinh: | it's like going into #nvidia every week & asking if they have h.264 acceleration working in their linux drivers yet :) |
| [13:57:54] | iamlindoro_: | Yeah, except nvidia is *supposed* to have that... chess in myth is like tits on a boar |
| [13:58:48] | justinh: | as far as I'm concerned it'd be as stimulating as the MythWatchPaintDry plugin but to each their own |
| [13:59:31] | justinh: | gonna have a stab at a sucky-ducky game plugin though, fer sure |
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| [14:02:41] | Dagmar: | I don't want to know what the rules to that are. |
| [14:03:07] | iamlindoro_: | Just make sure to wear protection |
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| [14:04:04] | justinh: | arghh qt4 has done away with XOR painting |
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| [14:04:39] | Dagmar: | Was myth using it for something? |
| [14:04:56] | justinh: | no |
| [14:05:20] | Dagmar: | It's universally ugly. I'm a little baffled how such a revelation warrants being prefixed with "arghh" |
| [14:06:30] | justinh: | need a way of masking off an image with another image |
| [14:07:18] | Dagmar: | There's no alpha-channel support? |
| [14:08:17] | gbee: | justinh: might be able to do something with QImage::transformed() |
| [14:09:45] | gbee: | not sure yet, but it looks promising |
| [14:10:27] | justinh: | transformations are just for scaling, perspective & the likes, I thought |
| [14:13:01] | EvilGuru: | justdave: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/qpixmap.html#setMask &mdash ; would that not do it? |
| [14:13:13] | justinh: | QPixmap::setMask |
| [14:13:16] | gbee: | like I said, I'm not sure yet, but it seems to offer the possibility of defining shapes in the form of a QMatrix which can be used to crop the image – not it's primary purpose and I'm still not sure it's possible |
| [14:13:16] | justinh: | haha snap |
| [14:13:53] | gbee: | ideally we want a QImage method since we'd have to convert from QImage to QPixmap and back again otherwise |
| [14:14:00] | rambo3: | thats a image perspective not effect |
| [14:14:25] | EvilGuru: | For QPainter the composition methods will probably do it |
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| [14:14:48] | EvilGuru: | Oh crap, sorry justdave, I meant justinh |
| [14:14:54] | rambo3: | so i was thinking of making CD Burning plugin for mythtv named auschwitz |
| [14:15:30] | EvilGuru: | QImage does not have a lot of useful methods, I usually just use it as a QPainter backend |
| [14:16:29] | gbee: | I'd rather a more portable method, using QPainter limits the solution to the QT painter and leaves the GL painter needing it's own methods |
| [14:16:58] | justinh: | given that qt4 can use opengl is it still worth having 2 different painters? |
| [14:17:00] | EvilGuru: | Doesn't Qt have an OpenGL backend |
| [14:17:03] | gbee: | if we can keep the solution within MythImage or even MythUIImage that would be better – so no QPainter |
| [14:17:41] | gbee: | justinh: that's a question for another time, Chutt was going to look into it and I'm quite happy to let him |
| [14:17:58] | justinh: | just idly wonderered ;) |
| [14:18:52] | gbee: | I'll leave you guys discussing this, I've got plenty to do with mythui already |
| [14:19:31] | justinh: | AFAIK the only existing code of myth's own that even comes is the image clipping stuff but that's only for rectangles |
| [14:19:41] | justinh: | *comes close |
| [14:20:33] | directhex|work: | yarr |
| [14:21:07] | justinh: | there's no rush. somebody'll think of something I expect |
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| [14:21:21] | gbee: | I want to replace the skipin stuff with a better rectangle clip, but if I can create a multipoint (polygon) clip that would be useful too (star/radial wipes etc) |
| [14:21:25] | justinh: | til then it's flipbook or bust |
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| [14:21:49] | justinh: | does anything even use skipin? |
| [14:21:56] | gbee: | the flipbook is better than anything we've had until now, lets not get greedy ;) |
| [14:22:15] | ** justinh remembers his disappointment at finding out skipin didn't actually make the image skip in ** | |
| [14:22:16] | gbee: | justinh: mythweather does, to clip the radar images |
| [14:22:43] | gbee: | it's designed to clip unwanted tat from the edges of third party images e.g. cover art etc |
| [14:23:02] | gbee: | but in it's present form it's pretty useless |
| [14:23:31] | justinh: | ah so a 40x40 rectangle with a skipin of 5,5 will be shown as a 30,30 rect? |
| [14:24:28] | gbee: | 35,35 starting 5 pixels from the left/top edges |
| [14:24:57] | justinh: | heh. what's the point of that then? if it's for edge clipping, I mean.. |
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| [14:25:15] | gbee: | or something like that anyway, never really looked that hard at it |
| [14:25:23] | justinh: | might have a dig later |
| [14:25:50] | gbee: | it was one of those single purpose additions – mythweather radar images had noise on the top and left edges |
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| [14:26:17] | justinh: | plenty of those kind of additions about |
| [14:26:22] | gbee: | whoever wrote it didn't have the forsight to create a full image clipping function and they named it badly too |
| [14:26:35] | justinh: | the scale-on-demand list views spring to mind |
| [14:27:31] | justinh: | it'll all come out in the wash :) |
| [14:28:22] | gbee: | I think mythui might upset some people because it doesn't do any scaling to content – it might in future if I can see how that can be accomodated without f'ing up themes |
| [14:34:31] | Dagmar: | gbee: Try to incorporate some racist body language into the code |
| [14:34:48] | Dagmar: | That'll get them more visibly upset and let you cull them easily. |
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| [14:52:01] | jarle: | janneg: according to http://tw.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/ . . . oductID=2628 GIGABYTE GA-P35-S3G has only got 3 PCI ports... |
| [14:53:47] | janneg: | jarle: http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboa . . . oductID=2729 has five |
| [14:53:58] | jarle: | seems like I have to look abroad for a S/PDIF module for my motherboard. is there a service in uk that will let me search for the shop that has the cheapest one? |
| [14:55:00] | janneg: | jarle: your link misses the G at the end of the product name |
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| [14:59:13] | jarle: | janneg: yeah, I noticed the difference... However the mb you a suggest also needs an extra module to get S/PDIF out, it only has 1 x S/PDIF Out header, the same problem with my Asus P5GC... So I'll have to try locating somewhere to buy the optional module... |
| [14:59:42] | Reiver: | jarle they are easy to make with an RCA female plug and a CD to Sound Card cable |
| [14:59:54] | Reiver: | its only 2 wires |
| [15:00:37] | GreyFoxx: | What is considered a good board maker these days? Almost time to upgrade my main frontend and I'm not really in any particular love with any specific board maker/chipset |
| [15:01:37] | jarle: | Reiver: +5V, SPDIFOUT, GND |
| [15:02:41] | jarle: | any of you UK guys able to recommend a good online computer store? |
| [15:04:08] | jarle: | GreyFoxx: I tend to look more at what features I get, rather than the brand name. I'd like to have plenty of PCI and SATA slots, and S/PDIF out on the main board is always a plus... |
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| [15:06:57] | hashbang: | jarle: I've been happy with dabs.com and more recently, insight.com over the last few years. |
| [15:07:42] | hashbang: | GreyFoxx: Asus, Gigabyte are my two faves. Intel would be in for reliability, if not performance/features, and others rate MSI and Abit. |
| [15:08:34] | hashbang: | jarle: pricerunner.co.uk ? |
| [15:08:41] | ** hashbang is answering in roughly reverse order ** | |
| [15:08:49] | jarle: | hashbang: thnx! |
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| [15:16:00] | GreyFoxx: | hashbang: aus, is where we tend to buy here at work these days |
| [15:16:02] | GreyFoxx: | asus |
| [15:16:14] | GreyFoxx: | and historically I've had a good experience with Asus in general |
| [15:16:49] | hashbang: | GreyFoxx: our OEM uses Intel and Supermicro boards, seems to do OK. |
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| [15:28:15] | directhex|work: | GreyFoxx, i would typically avoid asus these days |
| [15:28:21] | directhex|work: | GreyFoxx, they strike me as a confused company |
| [15:28:37] | directhex|work: | GreyFoxx, they make major fuckups, then hack their way around them, rather than getting it right in the first place |
| [15:29:13] | Dagmar: | Asrock seems to be doing better. |
| [15:29:30] | Dagmar: | It makes ya wander if they weren't spun off so much as they "escaped" |
| [15:29:42] | iamlindoro__: | directhex|work, Like my slave backend which goes through POST then reboots itself and gets it right the second time? :) |
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| [15:42:58] | hashbang: | Dagmar: yeah, I'm kinda intrigued by Asrock. Haven't actually tried their kit myself, though. |
| [15:44:33] | directhex|work: | it's generally budget kit |
| [15:45:13] | directhex|work: | IME though, the only ones doing "interesting" boards these days are asus and aopen, and i've had my best boards from the most obscure manufacturers |
| [15:45:20] | directhex|work: | my albatron board was fantastic |
| [15:45:25] | directhex|work: | my chaintech was good too |
| [15:45:32] | directhex|work: | abit... meh |
| [15:45:38] | directhex|work: | gigabyte, problems |
| [15:47:32] | Dagmar: | Hashbang: I've got two of the ASrock 939dual-SATAII boards. |
| [15:47:42] | Dagmar: | They've been pretty awesome |
| [15:48:08] | hashbang: | Dagmar: I remember some of their early boards were sound electronically, but had some daft component placement issues |
| [15:48:13] | Dagmar: | My *sole* complaint is that there wasn't enough free space in the BIOS for me to hack in a boot splash screen. (and yes, I said "in the BIOS" and know how to do it) |
| [15:48:18] | hashbang: | Dagmar: tall capacitors next to PCI slots, that sort of thing |
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| [16:09:07] | Dibblah: | Dagmar: Urmm.... You submitted a patch. Nicely done! ;) |
| [16:09:23] | Dagmar: | Yeah, I'm still sorting out what's "legal" to use as far as sh code |
| [16:09:48] | Dagmar: | I actually *know* how to do the cpu/arch/tune settings correctly, since I already worked that code out as _bash_ script months ago |
| [16:10:18] | Dagmar: | ...but what I've got is very much bash-centric code, and I don't know how portable that might be for asshats that insist on using ash as their system shell |
| [16:10:29] | Dagmar: | ...or rather, I know it *won't* be portable |
| [16:10:50] | Dibblah: | Well, I would suggest Not Doing That. |
| [16:10:58] | Dibblah: | There's a script out there already. |
| [16:10:58] | Dagmar: | In particular, it depends on being able to store _very_ long ints in shell variables (although I suspect I could cull it down to just nine digits) |
| [16:11:06] | Dagmar: | No, see, here's the problem... |
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| [16:11:17] | Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris | |
| [16:11:19] | Dagmar: | -mtune is *not* valid for all versions of gcc. |
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| [16:12:19] | Dagmar: | So unless there's an assumption that gcc >= 4.1.0 (I think that's it) then one has to use -mcpu instead |
| [16:12:31] | Dagmar: | Unless I missed it, the configure script completely doesn't look for that at the moment |
| [16:13:00] | Dibblah: | No, there's many GCC version checks. |
| [16:13:10] | Dibblah: | I am not referring to Myth's configure script. |
| [16:14:05] | Dagmar: | I was |
| [16:14:22] | Dibblah: | Damnit. I can't find the script now. |
| [16:14:24] | Dagmar: | ...and when I say bash-isms, I mean I pull out *all* ths stops |
| [16:14:25] | Dagmar: | http://pastebin.ca/977041 |
| [16:14:36] | Dagmar: | I don't just use one, I use *bunches* of them. Heh |
| [16:15:23] | Dagmar: | Granted that dotted_to_longnum can probably be simplified a bit, since that's a general-purpose function that should handle just about every goddamn insane version string devs can come up with |
| [16:15:25] | Deek: | Putting bash code in a #! /bin/sh is, put simply, fscking retarded. |
| [16:15:42] | Dagmar: | Deek: Yet people do it all the time |
| [16:15:54] | Dagmar: | _Mainly_ it's safe on Linux machines, because we've _all_ got bash |
| [16:15:55] | Deek: | yeah, fscking retards. :) |
| [16:18:48] | Dibblah: | What I'm meaning is that someone already wrote a fairly nice portable script that caught a few more corner cases. |
| [16:18:54] | Deek: | It's never safe, and how hard is it to type that extra two letters at the beginning of the file? |
| [16:19:01] | Dibblah: | I just can't find where I saw it, though :( |
| [16:19:06] | Dagmar: | No, they're not retarded. Shell scripting is painful enough without forcing yourself to do everything in sh-centric ways when you don't need to |
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| [16:19:26] | Dagmar: | Dibblah: Ah good |
| [16:19:34] | Dibblah: | As long as it's #!/bin/bash, that's fine. |
| [16:19:47] | Dagmar: | Having an x264 file play all crazy this week got me looking at WTF was going on with my builds |
| [16:19:47] | Dagmar: | heh |
| [16:19:48] | Dibblah: | If it's #!/bin/sh, you're asking for trouble. |
| [16:20:07] | Dagmar: | Yeah, but most people just type #!/bin/sh at the start of their scripts, never giving thought to what that implies |
| [16:20:08] | Deek: | maybe even the oh-so-scary #! /usr/bin/env bash |
| [16:20:59] | Dibblah: | http://www.pixelbeat.org/scripts/gcccpuopt |
| [16:21:00] | Deek: | Dagmar: exactly...retards. |
| [16:23:03] | Dibblah: | Heh. They cheat. |
| [16:23:20] | Dibblah: | Don't look at the actual version number. Check if what you're trying to do works. |
| [16:23:55] | Dagmar: | 1. Jesus that's far more complex than what I just ripped out of DBS 2.x |
| [16:23:59] | Saviq: | damn can anyone explain to me how should I configure the Video Sources / Input connections for a 2 input DiSEQc switch? |
| [16:24:02] | Deek: | Checking version numbers is usually a bad idea. |
| [16:24:08] | Dagmar: | 2. How the @#$@# are they doing it without looking at the version number.. *shudder* |
| [16:24:10] | Dagmar: | lemme look at taht |
| [16:24:18] | Dagmar: | Deek: No, it's a very good idea. |
| [16:25:01] | Dibblah: | They're cheating, as I said. |
| [16:25:07] | Dibblah: | No, it's a bad idea. |
| [16:25:11] | Deek: | Dagmar: BS. You run the compiler and _check_ whether something works/ |
| [16:25:21] | Dagmar: | Why bother |
| [16:25:23] | Dibblah: | Since some distributions do funky things with upstream patches. |
| [16:25:41] | Dibblah: | Okay, I lied. *all* distros do funky things with upstream patches. |
| [16:25:48] | Dagmar: | For the difference between -mtune and -mcpu, it was a straightforward change to the released gcc |
| [16:25:55] | Deek: | The version is always worthless. |
| [16:25:57] | Dagmar: | Someone with a non-compliant gcc needs to fix it |
| [16:26:10] | Deek: | ALWAYS. |
| [16:26:21] | Dagmar: | This isn't some stuff where people may have patched in support for different optimization profiles |
| [16:26:52] | Dagmar: | No, *not* always |
| [16:27:03] | Dagmar: | That's a positively dim approach to programming. |
| [16:27:23] | Deek: | Even straight from the tarball. |
| [16:27:30] | tjcarter: | Dagmar: /bin/sh -> bash isn't safe on Linux machines because people substitute lighter shells for /bin/sh |
| [16:28:00] | xris: | not to mention that some versions/configs of bash actually run with reduced feature sets if you call it as sh |
| [16:28:01] | Deek: | tjcarter: Or just different ones, like zsh |
| [16:28:01] | Dagmar: | tjcarter: Frankly, screw those people, but mainly it's only rescue CDs where I've seen something other than bash masquerading as sh. |
| [16:28:18] | tjcarter: | Dagmar: spoken like a Linux bigot |
| [16:28:38] | Dagmar: | tjcarter: No, spoken like someone who's familiar with about a half dozen unix variants as well as linux |
| [16:28:50] | tjcarter: | Dagmar: bash is not sh. |
| [16:28:53] | Dagmar: | No shit. |
| [16:29:04] | Deek: | Dagmar: heh, that's all? |
| [16:29:18] | tjcarter: | The multitude of Linux people who act otherwise is a disturbing factor |
| [16:29:29] | Dibblah: | So are you contending that funky obtuse code to try and derive a comparable version number is better than just checking for functionality? |
| [16:29:38] | tjcarter: | Remember Linux runs on a 386. |
| [16:29:42] | Dagmar: | Dibblah: Am I what? |
| [16:29:53] | tjcarter: | Assuming you can get glibc on a 386 ;) |
| [16:30:01] | Dagmar: | Dude, that routine was a general purpose code I grabbed from something else |
| [16:30:14] | tjcarter: | glibc compiles to twice the size of the average 386's hard drive, but whatever |
| [16:30:19] | Dagmar: | It was just there so that no one would go "wtf is this dotted_to_longint() function" |
| [16:30:19] | Dibblah: | You would disagree about it's funkyness? |
| [16:30:29] | Dagmar: | Oh I *know* it's a funky piece of nightmare code |
| [16:30:57] | Dagmar: | I wouldn't use that for a check to report if gcc had a given version or not, because you only need to care about the first two digits |
| [16:31:36] | Dagmar: | That thing converts all version numbers currently released by Slackware into comparable ints, because that's what it had to do. |
| [16:31:47] | tjcarter: | anyway, I gotta work on my lesson plans |
| [16:32:06] | Dagmar: | It would be *less* of a nightmare if people wouldn't do bizarre crap like use 2.94.104.34.4a |
| [16:33:13] | Dagmar: | And at any rate, for those that weren't actually paying attention I pastebinned that as an example of _just how far off the rails_ my non-sh-safe code goes |
| [16:33:33] | Dagmar: | Hmm... although I guess s/rails/reservation/; (better use of alliteration) |
| [16:34:41] | Dibblah: | Dagmar: I hate to say this, but I believe your patch may be doing the wrong thing, unless I'm misunderstanding. |
| [16:35:13] | Dagmar: | Eh? Lemme look at the thing again to be sure |
| [16:35:22] | Dibblah: | Or something in the surrounding code is still wrong. |
| [16:35:30] | Dibblah: | Core2 should be fast CMOV, right? |
| [16:35:38] | Dibblah: | Since it's not netburst. |
| [16:36:24] | Dagmar: | Dunno. I didn't write the string it's using to compare. |
| [16:36:56] | Dagmar: | I've no idea for sure which ones are netburst and which ones aren't. I just chased down about a dozen different threads on the ffmpeg and mplayer lists to figure out WTF they were doing with that fast_cmov stuff and why |
| [16:37:40] | Dagmar: | Basically, if the string it uses elsewhere in there to define which CPUs require the "slower" cmov is correct, then the patch is correct |
| [16:37:58] | Dagmar: | It would probably be a good idea to check the ffmpeg source... Lemme do that real quick |
| [16:39:44] | Dagmar: | svn 9807 for them (can't get to the server to cheek trunk at the moment) still lists just pentium4|prescott|nocona as !fast_cmov types |
| [16:40:13] | Dagmar: | Either way, at the moment the code defaults to the slower cmov in many cases where it shouldn't |
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| [16:40:40] | Dagmar: | So long as it behaves as correctly as ffmpeg does, it shouldn't cause anything super-weird to happen |
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| [16:42:46] | Dagmar: | I know it was definitely defaulting to the slower cmov for k8 (which is what I've got) |
| [16:45:50] | Dagmar: | Basically, I fixed the _logic_ order for that bit. |
| [16:46:17] | Dibblah: | I'm just tracing it through to see why. |
| [16:46:26] | Dagmar: | Whether or not the right CPUs were put in the list of "teh slow" ones is something I'm not touching, because it results in things like that script you pasted the URL for a few minutes ago |
| [16:46:40] | Dagmar: | Dibblah: Oh it's dead easy to see why it wasn't |
| [16:46:46] | Dagmar: | fast_cmov was *off* by default |
| [16:47:14] | Dagmar: | ...and the logic to check for it was never triggered unless you use --enable-proc-opt, which basically throws use of --cpu/arch/tune out the window |
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| [16:47:39] | Dagmar: | I can't see any sane reason to allow those to be set, and then throw _out_ the ability to use fast_cmov |
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| [16:48:39] | Dagmar: | Now it'll get it right in either case, and should even get it right (if I was readin correctly) when you force --cpu to something for a different arch target |
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| [16:54:02] | Dagmar: | Anyway, back to the gcc thing... the tune/cpu change was flat out a change to a wholly different switch name (and mildly different meaning) that was made a one specific point in gcc development. It's not something that could have been optionally compiled in while removing the other by anyone in their right mind because of the level of the change |
| [16:55:01] | Dagmar: | If this were some little screwball simd extention check that lots of distros had this, that, or the other tweak in it, I'd be saying "oh hell yes we need to test and check" but this case isn't. It's simple, so I'd approach it like almost all the other GNU autoconf scripts work, which is by checking the version number on clear-cut and well-defined changes. |
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| [16:56:52] | a1fa: | bllllllah |
| [16:56:54] | a1fa: | :p |
| [16:56:58] | Dagmar: | ...and before anyone has a chance to up and comment again, ther'es no way in hell I'd sumbit that omgcomplex bash function as a patch for this. again, it was just something else in the DLG engine used for an entirely different and much more broad-sweeping purpose, and it gives *me* headaches to look at it but it works at least. |
| [16:57:22] | Dagmar: | I jsust didn't want anyone asking "wtf is that 127234214000 number about?" |
| [16:57:55] | Dagmar: | Thanks for helping to keep my day simple. lol |
| [17:00:02] | Dibblah: | Well, the code's not run because by that point, cmov is set to 'yes' not 'default'. |
| [17:02:41] | Dagmar: | Meh. Finally... I've been trying to get the damn tarball back open so I could look at the script this whole time |
| [17:03:00] | Dagmar: | The string it's using for the slower ones is pentium4,pentium4m,prescott,nocona which looks right to me... |
| [17:03:46] | Dagmar: | Hmm... double checking that otehr bit |
| [17:03:55] | Dagmar: | The patch *did* make it start working correctly here |
| [17:04:41] | Dagmar: | Nah man. cmov gets set to "default" at line 1252 in release-0.21-fixes from a day or so ago |
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| [17:05:40] | Dagmar: | For two arch types it gets set to "yes", but all the rest are going to wind up getting to that latter point in the script with the thing still being set to default. Lemme double-check that with an echo |
| [17:06:33] | Dibblah: | I just did. It didn't. |
| [17:06:40] | Dibblah: | http://pastebin.com/m478555c8 works. |
| [17:07:23] | Dagmar: | Look at line 1466 or so... |
| [17:07:25] | Dibblah: | (This is current 0.21 fixes. |
| [17:07:50] | Dagmar: | There's a case for $arch of x86_64|amd64 there that sets cmov to "yes" for those two alone |
| [17:07:52] | Dibblah: | Yes, that's vaguely right. |
| [17:08:01] | Dagmar: | I missed that, which would break this for those two types |
| [17:08:04] | Dibblah: | Hmm. Actually, why does it do that? |
| [17:08:09] | Dagmar: | This is why I hate piecemeal hackery shit like that |
| [17:08:31] | Dagmar: | If people would set a thing once and in one place, one wouldn't have to chase all over code to fix bugs |
| [17:09:00] | Dagmar: | Dibblah: It sets cmov to "yes", so since it's not "default" like I expected, just moving that check line won't get it for those two |
| [17:09:53] | Dagmar: | Bleh. That makes what I submitted a partial fix. Drat it |
| [17:10:01] | Dibblah: | Yes, it also doesn't work without your patch. |
| [17:10:09] | Dibblah: | Removing that line does the right thing. |
| [17:10:16] | Dibblah: | Well, slightly more of the right thing. |
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| [17:10:55] | Dagmar: | Yeah, I am definitely going to need coffee and a smoke before I dig into this again tho |
| [17:10:58] | Dibblah: | BTW, svn diff is easier than maintaining a pristine version, if you're working from a checkout. |
| [17:11:08] | Dagmar: | I'm just at the end of a 12 hour work shift right now so my brain is a little fried |
| [17:11:13] | Dibblah: | Just add removing that line to your patch. Job done ;) |
| [17:11:19] | Dagmar: | Dibblah: Heh |
| [17:12:12] | Dagmar: | I just clone the whole directory over as $name-pristine before I start chopping, just out of habit |
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| [17:14:12] | Dagmar: | Once I've had a smoke and some coffee I'll have all six cylinders firing again |
| [17:14:43] | Dibblah: | http://pastebin.com/m5e5b696e |
| [17:14:48] | Dibblah: | Reads better to me. |
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| [17:15:06] | Dibblah: | Hmm. Wonder when this broke :) |
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| [17:25:33] | tjcarter: | Deek: This is neither Thinkpad X300 nor airbook: http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/San-Francisco-H . . . 33eb7ed41d8/ |
| [17:25:58] | tjcarter: | it's a bezelbrick! |
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| [18:15:38] | goreguts: | I get choppy video/audio when i have bob deinterlacing on when watching HDTV after the first 5 seconds or so... will more ram help this or is my processor (athlon 64 3400+) not beefy enough? |
| [18:15:50] | goreguts: | i have 1 gig of ram |
| [18:16:37] | directhex: | h264 or mpeg2? |
| [18:17:09] | goreguts: | mpeg2 in the internal player(for watching tv/recorded shows), it runs h264 just fine in mplayer |
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| [18:23:39] | orthoevra: | Hey gang |
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| [18:24:20] | orthoevra: | question about mythtv and shutting down computer.. i see a commented out "shutdown" in the base.xml how can i make thjis work? |
| [18:27:30] | orthoevra: | nvm... ill just script something |
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| [18:46:30] | tony_: | anyone familiar with zap2xml? |
| [18:46:58] | justinh: | why? zap2it for consumers is dead ain't it? |
| [18:47:11] | GreyFoxx: | I think it's one of the screenscrapers |
| [18:47:16] | GreyFoxx: | of the regular zap2it page |
| [18:47:33] | justinh: | ah. automatic sympathy failure in that case |
| [18:48:38] | tony_: | is there any other good way to get tv listings? |
| [18:48:44] | GreyFoxx: | tonyb: most people tend to use schedulesdirect |
| [18:48:58] | GreyFoxx: | screenscrapers usually are too much of a pain |
| [18:48:59] | tony_: | GreyFoxx: do you have to pay? |
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| [18:49:11] | GreyFoxx: | tonyb: $20 for a year, which is pretty much nothing |
| [18:50:35] | Saviq: | hmm shouldn't the Menu > Select Input only show 'real' inputs, not all inputs that were created due to multirec? |
| [18:50:49] | tony_: | GreyFoxx: well, I do have vista media center and listings are free since i bought it. i hate to go through setting it all up and realize vmc is actually more free |
| [18:51:14] | justinh: | it's 'free' as in beer – er, as in MS is paying for a lot of things on your behalf |
| [18:51:54] | justinh: | it's not 'free' in the sense that you can fix bugs, add features or indeed use content recorded on your system elsewhere without hacking |
| [18:52:17] | tony_: | i almost have it all set up and hate to quit. i do mythfilldatabase --file 1 -1 /tmp/xmltv.xml and says it's an illegal option after reading the file |
| [18:52:37] | justinh: | tony_: you get a 14 day free trial with schedulesdirect AFAIK |
| [18:52:51] | justinh: | so you can decide if it's for you or not |
| [18:53:02] | tony_: | justinh: on the site now, says 7 days |
| [18:53:17] | justinh: | so a 7 day free trial. enough to get a feel for it |
| [18:53:41] | tony_: | the channels and remote is all i lack setting up which seems moot considering i've never successfully been able to get it up and running before and hate to quit |
| [18:54:12] | justinh: | I'm not going to lie to you – the remote is the biggest pain of all to get working |
| [18:54:29] | justinh: | that's thanks to lirc though – nothing to do with mythtv itself |
| [18:54:56] | tony_: | i had no doubt, couldn't get the remote working in xp and hauppauge drivers are crap. have to go down to 3gigs of ram to work with vista |
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| [18:55:11] | justinh: | why so much ram? |
| [18:55:19] | tony_: | gaming |
| [18:55:33] | justinh: | games need three gigs of ram these days? zoiks |
| [18:55:34] | tony_: | kubuntu's using 3gigs as we speak. it can use it |
| [18:55:56] | justinh: | linux will appear to eat all the ram you can throw at it |
| [18:56:02] | tony_: | games, photoshop, video editing, etc. |
| [18:56:03] | justinh: | doesn't mean it's all being used though |
| [18:56:08] | directhex: | justinh, i have a game from 2005 that requires 1.7 gig to run |
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| [18:56:24] | justinh: | effing hell! |
| [18:56:37] | directhex: | no, 2004 |
| [18:56:44] | directhex: | November 19, 2004 |
| [18:56:53] | tony_: | been thinking of upgrading from 4 to 8gigs. i hear vista can use it but i only use it for gaming |
| [18:56:54] | justinh: | remind me to buy some shares in a ram chip manufacturer |
| [18:57:06] | directhex: | the specs say it needs "384 Megabytes of RAM, plus 1.4 Gigabytes for Windows swap file" |
| [18:57:16] | directhex: | trust me, it ain't kidding |
| [18:57:36] | justinh: | glad I'm 'above' all that now in that case :) |
| [18:57:40] | directhex: | and Crysis will use ANYTHING you throw at it. it's still juddery with 3 ?400 graphics cards in tandem. |
| [18:57:55] | justinh: | money for auld rope! |
| [18:59:55] | tony_: | while i'm here, i couldn't complie lirc, anyone have a clue why or pointers? |
| [19:00:32] | tony_: | should i check, "compile tools for xwindows"? |
| [19:00:48] | tony_: | using pvr 150 with hauppauge remote |
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| [19:20:22] | tony_: | nevermind, had to use lirc from the cvs repos |
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| [19:48:38] | EvilGuru: | I am currently watching some live TV, but am a few seconds behind. How can I skip to the end of the stream (fast-foward, right arrow does not seem to let me) |
| [19:51:46] | justinh: | that's classic PVR behaviour |
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| [19:52:59] | Saviq: | how many recordings can you usually get from a dvb-s card? |
| [19:53:19] | directhex: | Saviq, the limit is 5 |
| [19:53:25] | justinh: | Saviq: depends – pulling a whole transponder down shouldn't be much of a problem |
| [19:53:31] | directhex: | the number of streams on your transponder is your knowledge |
| [19:53:39] | justinh: | or er.. *any* kind of a problem |
| [19:53:57] | Saviq: | cool |
| [19:53:59] | justinh: | the limit is hard-coded (but easily changed if you have the source) |
| [19:55:01] | justinh: | I hacked my dev box (athlon 800, 512MB ram) to a max of 10. coped just fine |
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| [20:05:59] | EvilGuru: | justinh: How did you know I had a PVR? |
| [20:06:12] | justinh: | mythtv is a PVR |
| [20:06:23] | EvilGuru: | Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted you |
| [20:06:34] | justinh: | damn that was my chance to say I can read minds over the intarwebs |
| [20:07:04] | EvilGuru: | Also, I have slight A/V desync can I apply an offset? |
| [20:07:21] | justinh: | audio shouldn't be out of sync at all |
| [20:07:32] | EvilGuru: | It is ever so slightly ahead |
| [20:07:34] | justinh: | what do you mean by slight? |
| [20:07:49] | EvilGuru: | maybe 50ms or so (lips don't sync) |
| [20:07:58] | justinh: | do you have a flat panel TV ? |
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| [20:08:12] | EvilGuru: | I am watching it on my computer |
| [20:08:20] | EvilGuru: | being streamed from my back-end |
| [20:08:26] | justinh: | should be in sync just fine |
| [20:08:37] | EvilGuru: | my system load is nominal |
| [20:08:53] | justinh: | you can adjust the A/V sync but it'd be a ballache to do that every time |
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| [20:09:48] | EvilGuru: | Well, I am getting myself a DVB-T tuner tomorrow (my Nova-T 500 is not working correctly with 2.6.24) so I'll see if it is also out of sync at all |
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| [20:12:27] | justinh: | audio can't really get out of sync with DVB |
| [20:12:50] | EvilGuru: | Yes, so if it is still out of sync then it is probably decoding |
| [20:13:00] | EvilGuru: | otherwise it is my PVR-150 being a pain |
| [20:15:12] | justinh: | maybe try tweaking the ivtv noise reduction stuff. I found the default settings a bit like watching TV on acid when I first rolled ivtv out at home |
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| [20:15:37] | EvilGuru: | I do have some kind of filtering applied |
| [20:15:57] | EvilGuru: | I'll see if I can remember the v4l ctl to get the settings |
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| [20:25:30] | comphappy: | I have seen some hints at a plugin for YouTube/Google video plugin, is there one? |
| [20:28:36] | iamlindoro__: | My grandpappy didn't fight nazis so that I could watch 320x240 video |
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| [20:28:44] | [diablo]: | evening |
| [20:29:25] | iamlindoro__: | Ol' grandpappy iamlindoro Sr. fought the Gerries so that I could watch glorious 1080peeeeee |
| [20:29:30] | [diablo]: | I built last night the latest source release... all good ... a couple of things I am attempting to find out how to do |
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| [20:29:52] | [diablo]: | 1) How can I remove the mini picture in the channels list |
| [20:30:21] | [diablo]: | 2) When I press M I have an overlay menu, but it flickers like crazy, hardly readable |
| [20:30:27] | [diablo]: | anyone advise please? |
| [20:30:36] | iamlindoro__: | 1) Huh? 2) Change your deinterlacer in playback profiles |
| [20:31:07] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, hi, I have selected bob x2 |
| [20:31:14] | [diablo]: | the picture quality is brilliant |
| [20:31:19] | iamlindoro__: | Yeah. Don't do that. |
| [20:31:29] | [diablo]: | why? |
| [20:31:39] | iamlindoro__: | " 2) When I press M I have an overlay menu, but it flickers like crazy, hardly readable" |
| [20:31:41] | iamlindoro__: | That's why |
| [20:31:56] | [diablo]: | yeah but then the picture quality is going to be inferior |
| [20:32:24] | BobSlob: | anyone have a problem with nvidia cards not properly detecting tv displays? |
| [20:32:31] | iamlindoro__: | Yadif is better than bob anyway |
| [20:32:45] | [diablo]: | for eg. I use Sky News (BSKYB) as a way of seeing how good the deinterlacing is... they have a scrolling news ticker |
| [20:32:50] | [diablo]: | oh yeah Yadif |
| [20:32:52] | [diablo]: | dunno that |
| [20:32:55] | [diablo]: | I'll try it now |
| [20:32:55] | [diablo]: | :) |
| [20:32:58] | iamlindoro__: | ugh, please, I'll do anything, just stop explaining things |
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| [20:35:50] | [diablo]: | lol |
| [20:35:57] | [diablo]: | ok, that works great |
| [20:37:14] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, when I go M -> Program Guide ... |
| [20:37:48] | [diablo]: | the picture in the top right is very very sluggish when navigating up and down... any recomendations on improving this please? |
| [20:38:42] | iamlindoro__: | What picture? The TV preview? |
| [20:39:04] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, it shows the channel im currently watching |
| [20:39:13] | iamlindoro__: | A simple yes would have sufficed |
| [20:39:39] | iamlindoro__: | and nope, aside from using a faster machine/not using channel icons, I have no suggestions. I don't watch Live TV. |
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| [20:39:52] | [diablo]: | well, when you say preview, I wondered if you ment a preview of the channel I was highlighted over ;) |
| [20:40:44] | [diablo]: | it's an AMD 2600 Athlon btw |
| [20:40:59] | [diablo]: | maybe I should by a new cpu |
| [20:41:30] | iamlindoro__: | It's not much of a CPU-- next thing you'll be telling me you've got an ATI GPU |
| [20:41:47] | iamlindoro__: | In which case I'll suggest you punch yourself in the face, repeatedly |
| [20:42:05] | [diablo]: | lol |
| [20:42:31] | [diablo]: | well, it's a cheapy ati agp card, but its running the OSS drivers |
| [20:42:36] | iamlindoro__: | UGH |
| [20:42:40] | iamlindoro__: | are you serious?? |
| [20:42:48] | [diablo]: | yep |
| [20:42:53] | iamlindoro__: | Forget it dude, ATI + Myth = garbage |
| [20:42:59] | iamlindoro__: | Buy an nVidia card |
| [20:43:08] | iamlindoro__: | and use the proprietary drivers |
| [20:43:39] | iamlindoro__: | Also, punch yourself in the face repeatedly |
| [20:43:48] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, you have me interested now... how is myth + ati = garbage? |
| [20:44:18] | EvilGuru: | [diablo]: I do not believe the ATi drivers (any of the three) support Xv or XVMC |
| [20:44:29] | [diablo]: | the playback quality is crystal clear |
| [20:44:41] | iamlindoro__: | ATI themselves states that MythTV shouldn't be used with their cards-- the drivers are crap no matter which you choose and it invariably causes disastrous issues when trying to use Myth on them |
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| [20:44:58] | [diablo]: | mmmm |
| [20:45:18] | EvilGuru: | iamlindoro: Do you have a source on that? |
| [20:45:40] | iamlindoro__: | EvilGuru, On what, the ATI statement? It's right in the ATI driver notes. |
| [20:46:01] | [diablo]: | well, I'm not going to argue as to which is the better of the two... I know Nvidia is way better. I only bought the card as my geforce 5200 died, and could not pick up a nvidia here in town |
| [20:46:52] | iamlindoro__: | [diablo], There are many people in here who would be only too happy to use ATI if the drivers allowed for it, myself included, but it's just not practical, thre are *major* issues encountered by everyone who tries. |
| [20:47:32] | iamlindoro__: | [diablo], And every once in a while you'll get some jackass who says they got it working fine, but it's 1) usually not credible and 2) about 1 in 100 cases |
| [20:47:47] | [diablo]: | I have a nice nvidia 8800 GTS sat here in a cardboard box... not being used |
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| [20:48:09] | [diablo]: | but the mobo in the myth box is agp only lol |
| [20:48:29] | iamlindoro__: | You can get another 5200 for next to nothing |
| [20:48:51] | [diablo]: | I might give it a whirl again |
| [20:49:23] | [diablo]: | never really was clear as to what was wrong with it... had X lockups , and they became to frequent |
| [20:49:50] | piksi: | what would be the most obvious reason for mythfilldatabase to fail even when backend is running? |
| [20:50:08] | piksi: | it doesn't matter whether it's connecting localhost:6543 or 192.168.1.100:6543 |
| [20:50:15] | [diablo]: | so, assuming I put an nvidia in... xvmc is the way to go? |
| [20:50:28] | iamlindoro__: | [diablo], XvMC should be avoided if you don't absolutely need it |
| [20:50:59] | iamlindoro__: | The marginal gain in performance is usually offset by the general bugginess of XvMC |
| [20:51:03] | iamlindoro__: | Use Xv if you can |
| [20:51:13] | [diablo]: | ok |
| [20:51:45] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, I assume this is only going to be of benfit when rendering menus etc yeah? |
| [20:51:57] | iamlindoro__: | where this =? |
| [20:52:02] | EvilGuru: | [diablo]: Xv should also help with scaling |
| [20:53:01] | [diablo]: | ah |
| [20:53:02] | [diablo]: | ok |
| [20:53:15] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, your a sarcastic #@# mate ;) |
| [20:53:20] | EvilGuru: | Might also do colour space conversion, I can never remember |
| [20:53:24] | Hoxzer: | piksi: Faulty grabber |
| [20:53:38] | iamlindoro__: | [diablo], wasn't being sarcastic, just didn't know what you mean referring to "this." |
| [20:53:45] | Hoxzer: | Although it wouldn't inform you about failing that much. You just wont have EPG |
| [20:53:51] | [diablo]: | iamlindoro, xv |
| [20:53:57] | piksi: | Hoxzer: meaning exactly? |
| [20:54:02] | iamlindoro__: | [diablo], No, Xv relates to video playback |
| [20:54:16] | [diablo]: | ah really, ok did not know |
| [20:54:21] | iamlindoro__: | no problem |
| [20:54:35] | Hoxzer: | piksi: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/XMLTV |
| [20:54:53] | [diablo]: | I must admit, I've been using Kaffeine for ages for DVB-S ... just got a touch sick of it |
| [20:55:15] | [diablo]: | im not familar with all the terminology |
| [20:55:51] | piksi: | Hoxzer: i'm not even using xmltv and afaik not being able to connect to the backend has nothing to do with the actual channel listings being dumped into the database |
| [20:56:08] | Hoxzer: | Yep, it doesn't you |
| [20:57:11] | piksi: | i already have a valid channels.conf and i've used it succesfully before (the whole mythtv inside lan) |
| [20:57:34] | piksi: | it just suddely stopped working when i changed mythtv users mysql-password (and also modified it in the mythv config) |
| [20:57:41] | piksi: | it connects to the database perfectly |
| [21:01:00] | iamlindoro__: | piksi, Did you edit config.xml as well? (assuming you are using .21 or newer) |
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| [21:01:53] | iamlindoro__: | piksi, I believe most/all elements of myth not use the new ~/.mythtv/config.xml rather than mysql.txt so you should double check the password there as well |
| [21:01:58] | iamlindoro__: | er now use |
| [21:02:58] | piksi: | iamlindoro__: i wasn't aware of such file, i've always thought it was only the mysql.txt (just upgraded to 0.21 some time ago) |
| [21:03:07] | iamlindoro__: | piksi, it's new |
| [21:03:14] | iamlindoro__: | worth a look |
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| [21:10:53] | piksi: | iamlindoro__: seemed to do the job, thanks for notifying of the new config file :-) |
| [21:11:01] | iamlindoro__: | no problem, glad it helped |
| [21:11:18] | piksi: | but mythtv wasn't very verbose on the problem not on the console nor in the /var logs :-( |
| [21:11:45] | piksi: | guess i just would have needed some verbose switch to tell about the wrog password it tried to use |
| [21:11:57] | iamlindoro__: | yep, -v all might have shown it to you |
| [21:12:05] | iamlindoro__: | *might*, can't guarantee without trying |
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| [21:36:10] | ajh: | given enough cpu anyone have an opinion on how much better the yadif x2 and greedy x2 deinterlacing filters are? |
| [21:36:24] | ajh: | are there different scaling approaches? |
| [21:37:12] | ajh: | compared to say a Lumagen |
| [21:38:04] | ajh: | need to figure out if I want to keep the 4400 in the front-end or stick it in the back end and get something with a higher clock rate for the front end. |
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| [21:48:48] | justinh: | same old same old. see what looks best to your eyes |
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| [21:50:31] | nordle (nordle!n=nordle@82.152.156.111) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [21:50:32] | ajh: | got a reference test file that's good for judging? |
| [21:50:40] | ajh: | like the audiotest cd's |
| [21:51:08] | iamlindoro__: | http://guru.multimedia.cx/deinterlacing-filters/ |
| [21:51:39] | iamlindoro__: | That's as close as you're gonna get without looking at each in turn |
| [21:51:48] | ajh: | much appreciated! |
| [21:54:02] | nordle: | howdy. Got a strange, but annoying issue. Upgraded kernel to 2.6.24.4, nvidia driver to 171.06, mythtv 0.21 and now my TV picture looks like two interlaced images overlapped, but missing allignment by 1 inch. A very "hashed" look. Simply going into nvidia-settings and selecting from scale to stretch, or from stretch to scale, solves the problem. So I stuck "nvidia-settings -l" infront of any remote control command to force a re-load of the settin |
| [21:55:02] | justinh: | nordle: add nvidia-settings -l to the X session – maybe in front of mythfrontend, whatever auto loads it :) |
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| [21:56:38] | nordle: | I've tried going back to nvidia 169–12, same issue. justinh: yeah, I've got it on /home/mythtv.fluxbox/startup so it loads each time fluxbox does. It doesnt work. I have to open nvidia-settings and just select the opposite of the "stretch/native/centered" option thats there. The weird thing, check.... |
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| [21:57:09] | nordle: | .ndidia-settings.rc and I cant see where it stores the centred/stretched bit. |
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| [21:59:20] | ajh: | OK, I've done something.. suddenly the gnome top and bottom panels are staying visible while mythfrontend runs |
| [21:59:46] | directhex: | don't use compiz |
| [22:00:06] | ajh: | I'm not |
| [22:00:12] | ajh: | took that off last night |
| [22:00:25] | ajh: | they're not showing through, they're sitting on top |
| [22:00:35] | nordle: | cat ~/.nvidia-settings-rc and there is nothing about GPU scaling. Now "force gpu scaling" is NOT selected, so it would make sense for it not to be in the rc file. But why then does changing the option randomly from "stretched, centered or aspect ratio" have an effect. If gpu scaling is not enabled, it should do nothing right? But it solves the problem. If I DO select force gpu scaling, which I guess is the option to "fix" it permenantly, it t |
| [22:01:46] | nordle: | mmmmm the more I right, the more I think this is a nvidia issue, maybe combined with newer kernel.... I'll poke around nvidia forums and see. |
| [22:01:52] | nordle: | right=write |
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| [22:06:45] | Saviq: | guys, what is it... mythtv-setup switches my DiSEQc fine, but then mythbackend fails to do so |
| [22:07:17] | Saviq: | do I need separate video source for the second diseqc input for mythbackend to switch? |
| [22:10:01] | ajh: | hrm, no clue why X started doing this. |
| [22:12:06] | ajh: | though having the prebuild macox frontends is really handy, now I can give the GF a set of earphones and send her elsewhere to watch :) |
| [22:12:45] | ajh: | anyone tried to build it on win under cygwin? |
| [22:13:41] | directhex: | ajh, don't. |
| [22:13:59] | ajh: | that'd require me to have a win box :) |
| [22:14:09] | directhex: | ajh, the answer is "yes. don't." http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/wp-content/g . . . tv-win32.JPG |
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| [22:16:15] | ajh: | hrm, yeah this is odd, I can even move the panels around over top of myth |
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| [22:18:32] | iamlindoro__: | Almost like they were a series of windows arranged in a simulated three-dimensional space! |
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| [22:21:30] | Saviq: | can anyone help with the not-switching diseq? |
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| [22:22:25] | ajh: | ok, that was strange, running the screen wizard and resetting to defaults fixed it, though it was set to 0x0 offset. |
| [22:22:57] | ajh: | are there packages for that win32 frontend? |
| [22:23:17] | directhex: | ajh, no. and it needs 3 gig of space. |
| [22:23:18] | iamlindoro__: | Nope. It's strictly build-it-yourself. |
| [22:23:36] | ajh: | ugh, no good for just giving to guests on a CD then |
| [22:23:39] | iamlindoro__: | Woe unto you, etc., etc. |
| [22:23:53] | directhex: | iamlindoro__, LOTS of woe |
| [22:23:58] | iamlindoro__: | ;) |
| [22:24:12] | ajh: | yeah, I haven't done windows really since ... lesse 0.99plW. |
| [22:24:19] | ajh: | or 0.97plW :) |
| [22:24:29] | ajh: | A while ago. |
| [22:24:54] | directhex: | libmythtv-0.21.dll Size on disk: 142 MB (149,172,224 bytes) |
| [22:25:13] | iamlindoro__: | *shudders* at libmyth next to "DLL" |
| [22:25:32] | [diablo] ([diablo]!n=diablo@unaffiliated/miles/x-000000001) has quit ("Leaving") | |
| [22:25:49] | ajh: | Well, since I turned the overclocking on the FE machine off after removing compiz :) my instability went away. Yay. :) |
| [22:25:50] | iamlindoro__: | directhex, Have you SVN up'ed since the QT4 merge? |
| [22:26:06] | directhex: | iamlindoro__, i run a 0.21 BE |
| [22:27:08] | iamlindoro__: | directhex, yeah, i'm running a trunk revision from around that time-- wondered how much things have settled down in the last few weeks. Just compiled a fresh checkout on my spare backend but am hesitant to make install and play with it |
| [22:27:41] | directhex: | downtime = poor WAF |
| [22:27:52] | iamlindoro__: | No W to A ;) |
| [22:28:23] | directhex: | tomorrow i get house keys! |
| [22:28:53] | iamlindoro__: | Ah, nice! exciting feeling... also a poverty-stricken feeling :) |
| [22:29:03] | ** iamlindoro__ goes home ** | |
| [22:29:15] | directhex: | i got 30 years of debt for my 24th birthday |
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| [22:33:38] | purserj (purserj!n=purserj@k-sit.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [22:40:10] | FinnTux: | speaking of graphics cards...what do you think about this http://www.aselabs.com/singlenews.php?id=4532 |
| [22:40:18] | ajh: | sub-prime? ;) |
| [22:41:17] | hadees (hadees!n=hadees@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/hadees) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [22:43:11] | ajh: | oh, so what happens when two sources have overlapping channel numbers? |
| [22:44:55] | hadees: | man every time I talk to a Time Warner guy they don't believe me they have to offer firewire |
| [22:45:24] | hadees: | at least this time the guy asked for a print out of the FCC regulation and is taking it to his supervisor, he said he is going to write up an email if it is true |
| [22:45:35] | hadees: | for the rest of Austin Time Warner |
| [22:46:17] | hadees: | although i still haven't heard back from the other tech who said he would get me the enabled boxes, I hope one of these dudes sets Austin Time Warner straight. |
| [22:46:48] | dustybin: | 30 years of debt, 30 years of working your ass off to pay for some bricks |
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| [23:04:59] | neztiti: | hi guys – anyone know how myth_scanner works ??? |
| [23:05:25] | solexious (solexious!n=charlesy@ip-89-168-41-90.cust.homechoice.net) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:05:26] | EvilGuru: | Is there a guide to what the little icons under a recording mean? |
| [23:05:39] | iamlindoro: | Press F1 |
| [23:05:40] | riddlebox (riddlebox!n=james@75-132-225-75.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:05:57] | GreyFoxx: | neztiti: What's that ? |
| [23:06:00] | EvilGuru: | How Windows ;) |
| [23:06:26] | iamlindoro: | If it makes you feel any better you could just press 1 |
| [23:06:35] | EvilGuru: | It does |
| [23:07:06] | neztiti: | searching for channels – smale application |
| [23:08:03] | neztiti: | GreyFoxx:http://dvbn.happysat.org/viewtopic.php?t=4492 . . . &start=0 |
| [23:10:07] | neztiti: | GreyFoxx: صث ىثثي فاهس ةشى؟؟؟ |
| [23:10:48] | neztiti: | GreyFoxx:we need this ??? or not |
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| [23:25:12] | Eemak: | for some reason, lately, using my remote with myth is acting very differently than if i hit right or left on the keyboard |
| [23:25:20] | Eemak: | like, it seems to freeze more when i do it with remote |
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| [23:40:41] | Ra^ (Ra^!n=Ra@cpe-69-207-33-168.buffalo.res.rr.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:41:14] | Ra^: | Anyone know if there's an internal DVD changer supported by myth? |
| [23:41:34] | XLV (XLV!n=XLV@88.218.180.231) has quit ("Leaving") | |
| [23:47:53] | xris: | isn't that usually handled by the OS layer? |
| [23:48:47] | Ra^: | I would think so, but I could be wrong when it comes to myth. I see some hardware listed on myth's site and just wanted to check. |
| [23:49:32] | Ra^: | and I was hoping someone might know of a model/brand/whatever DVD changer 'cause I can't find much through google |
| [23:53:09] | Saviq: | why isn't there a 'Don't Touch' option for scanning channels :( |
| [23:55:43] | ajh: | I'd rather see a 'review and apply changes' option, that and all the channel details brought to one interface for editing in the front-end afterwards. |
| [23:55:55] | ajh: | that and being able to specify a logo directory |
| [23:56:15] | ajh: | entering the full path on 1000 channels just to have them wiped out later sucks. |
| [23:56:30] | Eemak: | xris: do you use lirc? |
| [23:56:40] | xris: | sort of... |
| [23:56:54] | ajh: | hrm, this really doesn'tttt seem to be giving up on trying to run the interactiveTV stuff. |
| [23:57:02] | ajh: | will it ever timeout? |
| [23:57:07] | xris: | Ra^: myth pretty much uses what linux uses.. unless there is some special control layer needed. |
| [23:57:13] | GreyFoxx: | RaYmAn-Bx: There isn't DVD changer support. I'm working on that now actually |
| [23:57:18] | GreyFoxx: | Ra^ |
| [23:57:18] | ajh: | it won't let me switch channels or exit livetv |
| [23:57:27] | GreyFoxx: | I just got a 200Disk DVD Changer |
| [23:57:32] | Ra^: | xris, thanks for clearing that up. :) |
| [23:58:12] | GreyFoxx: | I'm planning on making it so that you can use it to stream the content to the frontend from any backend |
| [23:58:19] | Ra^: | GreyFoxx, I thought about a 400 disc changer, but I'd only use it once to initially load my DVD library. After that, it would just collect dust. That's why I'm hunting around for a 5–6 disc changer |
| [23:58:24] | ajh: | ugh, and of course on restart it'll tune back into the bad channel |
| [23:59:01] | GreyFoxx: | RaYmAn-Bx: Initially I plan to handle the changing and such using the mtx tools and just have myth call those |
| [23:59:02] | TelnetManta (TelnetManta!n=benwilli@24-241-115-007.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) has joined #mythtv-users | |
| [23:59:16] | ajh: | ugh, and it lost setup info, defaulted to some other theme |
| [23:59:17] | GreyFoxx: | and use the built in streaming/storage groups for serving the content to the FE |
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