Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Thursday, February 21st, 2008, 00:19 UTC

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geu:

hi I'm looking through the file Extension within MythTV, I could tell MythTV how to handle vobs, oggs, mpgs and isos but I have never seen a file called "file.VIDEO_TS" what is that good for?

[00:27:23]

fryfrog:

VIDEO_TS is the name of the dir found on DVDs with video in it

[00:27:32]

fryfrog:

not sure it'd be an *extension* thouhg?

[00:28:54]

Anduin:

It is special cased

[00:29:04]

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geu:

I found that at Setup/Setup/Media Settings/Video Settings/FileTypes/Extension VIDEO_TS

[00:30:05]

geu:

special cased?

[00:30:14]

geu:

what does that mean?

[00:30:55]

Anduin:

geu: It means is looks for a VIDEO_TS directory (instead of a file extension) and will call the player with the directory.

[00:31:21]

geu:

this would be great!

[00:31:22]

Anduin:

geu: If you don't know what a VIDEO_TS directory is just ignore it.

[00:31:53]

geu:

so all I need is clicking OK upon the folder ?

[00:32:08]

Cackette:

woot, my pvr-150 arrived today

[00:32:19]

Cackette:

now all i need is a bigger HD and i'll be ready to set it up

[00:32:25]

Anduin:

geu: try it (it doesn't show up like a normal folder)

[00:32:26]

geu:

I try to get my ripped DVD running who are stored on my fileserver

[00:33:13]

geu:

ok I'll have a try

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splendidjim_:

THIS IS AWEEEEESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

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** splendidjim_ is geu **

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splendidjim_:

I wanted to keep the waf so I decided to call all the VIDEO_TS folders like the movies /300/VIDEO_TS/blablub.vob --> /300/blablub.vob

[00:44:31]

splendidjim_:

Now it works!!! thx Anduin!

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[00:47:37]

splendidjim_:

does one of you use VLC within MythTV?

[00:50:56]

Cackette:

any good deals on 250GB or 320GB HD's lately?

[00:51:00]

Cackette:

need one to finalize my HTPC

[00:51:15]

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[00:51:57]

fryfrog:

400G and 500G drives are in the "sweet spot" right now

[00:52:03]

fryfrog:

lowest cost / gb

[00:52:36]

fryfrog:

well, seagates at newegg, last time i looked that is :)

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[00:56:19]

Cackette:

meh, i dont wanna spend that kinda $$

[00:56:23]

Cackette:

and i'd never use it all

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[00:59:27]

mikeones:

750 for 149 at fry's

[00:59:32]

fryfrog:

i kind of think it is a waste of money to bay 5 cents / gb when you could get more for say, 2 cents / gb

[00:59:42]

fryfrog:

we are talking the diff between say, $80 and $100

[00:59:47]

Cackette:

i'm thinking more like $60 or $80

[00:59:47]

fryfrog:

maybe $75

[00:59:48]

Cackette:

not $150

[00:59:58]

fryfrog:

400G seagate should be $100 or so

[01:00:07]

Cackette:

why get it if i'll NEVER fill that much up

[01:00:17]

fryfrog:

it will, eventually :)

[01:00:17]

mikeones:

500 gig for 94 at fry's

[01:08:02]

Cackette:

link?

[01:08:23]

jackson:

officemax had a deal on Monday for a 1tb external (two 500GB drives) for $99

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[01:17:21]

Cackette:

what dont you guys understand

[01:17:25]

Cackette:

i want a 250GB or 320GB

[01:17:29]

Cackette:

no smaller, no bigger

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[01:22:34]

Anduin:

It is probably the "no bigger" that is hard to understand.

[01:24:10]

Cackette:

its a simple concept...

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[01:27:19]

fryfrog:

i don't understand :/

[01:27:45]

fryfrog:

i get stuff from newegg, and i only buy seagate hard drives now

[01:27:56]

fryfrog:

or others with 5yr warrenty, there are one or two others who offer it.

[01:28:51]

PatrickDK:

2 months ago I ordered 12 500g sata from newegg

[01:29:01]

PatrickDK:

4 of them had broken off chips on delievery

[01:29:02]

fryfrog:

nice :)

[01:29:08]

fryfrog:

er, yuuck :/

[01:29:09]

PatrickDK:

and 2 others wouldn't do anything

[01:29:16]

fryfrog:

were they packed well?

[01:29:28]

PatrickDK:

as well as they ever package anything

[01:29:36]

PatrickDK:

some foam thing with drives put in it

[01:29:45]

fryfrog:

like hard sided foam?

[01:29:47]

fryfrog:

ie, not peanuts?

[01:29:53]

fryfrog:

a foam "hard drive rack" sort of?

[01:29:54]

PatrickDK:

a foam mold

[01:29:56]

PatrickDK:

yep

[01:30:10]

fryfrog:

we got our hard drives at work like that, never had any trouble

[01:30:17]

fryfrog:

did they rma/replace/etc them for you?

[01:30:20]

PatrickDK:

this was the first time

[01:30:24]

fryfrog:

not from newegg or anything

[01:30:26]

fryfrog:

ah

[01:30:28]

PatrickDK:

I get alot of drives

[01:30:41]

fryfrog:

ah, i guess at some point, something is going to be damaged :)

[01:31:06]

fryfrog:

so far, i've only had one "failure" and that was a ram stick, not sure if it was doa or died a few days/weeks after

[01:31:34]

PatrickDK:

heh, 12 500g drives gave me 3tb

[01:34:05]

Cackette:

shouldn't 6 500gb give you 3tb?

[01:34:19]

directhex:

Cackette, raid1!

[01:34:22]

PatrickDK:

only if you raid0 them

[01:34:23]

Cackette:

oh, weak

[01:34:27]

PatrickDK:

I raid10 them

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[01:36:39]

mikeones:

why

[01:36:57]

PatrickDK:

well, I could go raid5 then instead

[01:37:08]

PatrickDK:

but then if a single drive fails, the speed goes down 80%

[01:37:48]

PatrickDK:

so with raid10 I can get much faster speeds, and if a drive fails it only affects speed alittle, and I can withstand multible drive failures

[01:38:45]

mikeones:

raid0 one drive fails all data is lost right?

[01:38:51]

PatrickDK:

yep

[01:39:14]

mikeones:

so how can you stand multiple drive failures

[01:39:22]

PatrickDK:

6 sets of raid1

[01:39:47]

mikeones:

missed that above

[01:39:57]

PatrickDK:

you raid1 pairs of drives

[01:40:03]

PatrickDK:

then you raid0 all the paired raid1's

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[01:47:23]

cafuego:

mikeones: raid5 or raid6 the lot and have a hot spare

[01:49:17]

directhex:

cafuego, two hot spares! the man has 6 redundant drives, it'd still be an improvement!

[01:49:17]

mikeones:

Well I was consideing a raid5 of 3 750gb drives but will probley just keep the seprate

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cafuego:

directhex: Mind you, raid10 is prolly a better bet for speed if you don't have hw raid.

[01:52:21]

** cafuego has 3 extra 80G drives to add his his /home array as well. **

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[01:52:57]

directhex:

cafuego, frankly, i'm impressed at 12 drives in 1 case

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[02:10:56]

cafuego:

directhex: that fits easily, i can take 16 in mine and still have space left over

[02:11:25]

cafuego:

well, if i remove some of the dvdrws and replace them with drive cages anyway

[02:13:58]

fryfrog:

PatrickDK: I hope you are using this were the speed is actually important?

[02:14:43]

fryfrog:

I've got 10 drives in my case, 12 wouldn't be hard if I got one of those 3–4 slot 5.25" bay devices

[02:15:46]

fryfrog:

PatrickDK: the only problem I see with that is that 2 well placed failures will lose you all your data :(

[02:15:55]

fryfrog:

course, the chances of that happening are *crazy* slim :)

[02:16:33]

Tokayla:

use lvm!

[02:16:39]

Tokayla:

raid is too much hassle :P

[02:16:43]

fryfrog:

lvm != raid :)

[02:16:52]

Tokayla:

:P

[02:16:53]

fryfrog:

lvm is *harder* than raid :p

[02:16:59]

Tokayla:

how is it harder?

[02:17:07]

fryfrog:

raid is... like 2 commands

[02:17:11]

fryfrog:

mdadm

[02:17:16]

Tokayla:

meh

[02:17:19]

iamlindoro:

fryfrog is correct, and mdadm will e-mail me if it goes down, and tell me which... LVM won't do that...

[02:17:20]

Tokayla:

webmin?

[02:17:23]

fryfrog:

well, maybe just one single command?

[02:17:42]

fryfrog:

webmin? is for bitches :)

[02:17:54]

fryfrog:

man, i forgot about webmin

[02:17:56]

fryfrog:

been a long time

[02:18:05]

Tokayla:

i used mdadm for a while but my drives are ide and the array has a tendancy to drop a channel for a second..which means two disks which means mdadm cries ..

[02:18:10]

fryfrog:

but lvm and raid achieve two entirely different goals :)

[02:18:16]

Tokayla:

non striped lvm works fine though

[02:18:37]

fryfrog:

i wouldn't put 2 disks in a raid on the same channel

[02:18:40]

Tokayla:

they both make many hard drives one partion :P

[02:18:41]

fryfrog:

ide, that is

[02:18:53]

fryfrog:

Tokayla: sure, but that isn't the "goal" of raid

[02:18:54]

Tokayla:

but a second controller is expencive ..

[02:18:57]

fryfrog:

while it is the goal of lvm

[02:19:00]

fryfrog:

$10?

[02:19:01]

fryfrog:

:p

[02:19:10]

Tokayla:

go find me one :P

[02:19:25]

Tokayla:

i think most people don't need raid.

[02:19:28]

fryfrog:

I bought two "rosewil" sata cards for *maybe* $12 each

[02:19:39]

fryfrog:

yeah, nobody needs raid

[02:19:46]

fryfrog:

who wants to reliably keep their data?

[02:19:59]

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Tokayla:

most people should be fine with smart

[02:20:01]

fryfrog:

oh, wait... basically only anyone who *hasn't* lost data to a hard drive failure :p

[02:20:09]

fryfrog:

ask google, smart sucks

[02:20:10]

Tokayla:

and most home users don't have anything worth not loosing!

[02:20:20]

Tokayla:

:D

[02:20:22]

fryfrog:

yeah, no home users do their taxes on their home computer

[02:20:22]

mzb:

lvm _on_ raid makes sense

[02:20:23]

iamlindoro:

I think those same users would disagree

[02:20:32]

fryfrog:

or keep their unreplacable, unique home photos

[02:20:40]

Tokayla:

thats called a dvd :P

[02:21:16]

iamlindoro:

Anyone who thinks a DVD is a backup method doesn't have a child/dog/rodest infestation

[02:21:19]

fryfrog:

course, if a home user isn't making backups to an external hard drive or cd/dvd... they probably *also* won't be doing RAID1 or anything :)

[02:21:20]

Tokayla:

when i lost my first important hdd.. i lept on raid.. then i got 20mbit cable.. now i can redownload without much effort..

[02:21:23]

mzb:

I use raid1 on both server and workstation (at home)

[02:21:24]

iamlindoro:

er rodent

[02:21:40]

Tokayla:

home users are far more likely to use mdadm then a dvd burner D:

[02:21:47]

fryfrog:

raid1 on server's /, raid5 for space. workstations are throw away trash though :0

[02:22:19]

Tokayla:

isn't softraid a little debateable for performance boosts as writing / reading uses cpu .. and hardware raid costs the earth..

[02:22:21]

fryfrog:

i got my parents a "Thecus N2100"

[02:22:22]

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[02:22:27]

mzb:

fryfrog: nah, It's a nice change from sitting on the couch ;)

[02:22:43]

fryfrog:

if you are using a p2 or p3, software raid might be "slow"

[02:22:44]

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fryfrog:

but... with current cpus, 1–2% for "normal" usage is hardly worth caring about.

[02:23:15]

fryfrog:

i've seen 20–30%, but that is only during a rebuild / drive failure.

[02:23:16]

mzb:

for me, raid1 is no worse than a single drive, and often faster (for reads)

[02:23:25]

fryfrog:

and this is on an old p4 xeon

[02:23:36]

fryfrog:

yeah, raid1 i never see it's process hit the cpu up

[02:23:44]

mzb:

the important thing is *some* security

[02:23:45]

Tokayla:

7 disk raid 5 on a barton 2500 wasn't too much fun

[02:23:52]

fryfrog:

only my raid5 array

[02:24:09]

fryfrog:

as in, slow read / write with *high* cpu?

[02:24:16]

fryfrog:

or just slow read / write?

[02:24:23]

Tokayla:

no pretty fast read write.. but cripped the cpu

[02:24:43]

fryfrog:

i used to run a 3–4 drive raid5 on an athlon 1600+

[02:24:51]

fryfrog:

the speed limit was the lame ide, not the cpu

[02:25:05]

Tokayla:

yeah well 7 disks on one pci channel is sloooow

[02:25:15]

fryfrog:

now with sata though, my raid5 isn't super fast but it is *way* faster than a single drive for sure

[02:25:22]

fryfrog:

yeah, that does sound slow :)

[02:25:30]

Tokayla:

sata2 + ncq = fast enough for me :P

[02:25:37]

fryfrog:

yar

[02:25:46]

fryfrog:

but really, i don't even care about speed

[02:25:47]

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[02:25:56]

fryfrog:

it is the reliability and storage space that makes me like raid5

[02:26:00]

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[02:26:12]

fryfrog:

as long as it is "fast enough" I am happy

[02:26:27]

fryfrog:

network is still the slowest part of my setup :)

[02:26:33]

fryfrog:

even at 1000mbit

[02:26:44]

Tokayla:

i like the reliablity but in practice using SHAT raid.. or software hardware assisted raid.. the controller screw ups caused raid failues without broken disks

[02:26:47]

Tokayla:

which pissed me off

[02:27:10]

Tokayla:

and using mdadm forced rebuilding ment 99% intact data

[02:27:14]

fryfrog:

you mean those raid controllers built into "normal" or "cheap" priced motherboards?

[02:27:19]

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[02:27:22]

Tokayla:

nah highpoint raid cards :D

[02:27:36]

fryfrog:

same thing

[02:27:49]

Tokayla:

prettymuch

[02:27:51]

fryfrog:

you mean a "raid card" with no actual raid hardware on it, right?

[02:28:04]

Tokayla:

but the highpoint has TWO ide controllers on one chip

[02:28:07]

fryfrog:

basically software raid, but from a piece of "hardware" :)

[02:28:08]

Tokayla:

and has a bios !

[02:28:10]

fryfrog:

ah

[02:28:23]

Tokayla:

but its all cpu..

[02:28:27]

fryfrog:

yar, the rosewil sata cards I use are "raid" cards, but i just use them as ide controllers

[02:28:35]

Tokayla:

mdadm > SHAT raid

[02:28:42]

fryfrog:

for sure

[02:29:00]

fryfrog:

especially since you can move an mdadm array from one system to another w/o really caring what the sata/ide chipset is

[02:29:14]

Tokayla:

yeah .. probably :P

[02:29:16]

fryfrog:

but... much harder to do (if even possible) with fake hardware raid

[02:29:38]

Tokayla:

im paranoid of raid now :|

[02:30:19]

Tokayla:

its not a wise choice when all 7 disks have been on for 3 years

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** iamlindoro longs for the day a 540p video was the best-looking thing he had ever seen... **

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[03:12:58]

iamlindoro:

'cause now I'm spoiled and it's costing too much to make with the pretty TV

[03:23:11]

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[03:27:16]

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[03:30:29]

GreyFoxx:

Wonder if Paramount is gonna start bluray stuff like transformers and other titles they weren't gonna release on bluray

[03:30:33]

amrit|wrk is now known as amrit|afk

[03:30:43]

** GreyFoxx wants Transformers! **

[03:32:28]

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[03:33:32]

** PatrickDK wonders of the cpu needed for nice 1080p videos **

[03:33:36]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: now's your chance to get it cheap... $99 buys you 7 HD-DVDs and a player to go with 'em ;)

[03:33:47]

iamlindoro:

PatrickDK: 2.2 Ghz C2D

[03:34:05]

PatrickDK:

heh? my 2.4ghz couldn't do it

[03:34:13]

iamlindoro:

That's if you want to play rips from disk

[03:34:41]

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[03:34:49]

PatrickDK:

the decoder is multithreaded now?

[03:34:57]

iamlindoro:

PatrickDK: then you weren't trying hard enough ;) mplayer with the right options will play all my blu-ray rips on that spec machine

[03:35:02]

GreyFoxx:

iamlindoro: nice, where ?

[03:35:09]

GreyFoxx:

I might check it out :)

[03:35:19]

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[03:35:21]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: Erm... let me check, was on Engadgethd today

[03:35:39]

iamlindoro:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/20/so-it-be . . . t-city-come/

[03:35:46]

PatrickDK:

well, I haven't tested it with a real stream, just with mp4 encoded, with vlc

[03:35:56]

PatrickDK:

mplayer died on it

[03:36:16]

iamlindoro:

PatrickDK: -lavdopts threads=2:fast:skiploopfilter=all

[03:36:30]

GreyFoxx:

no circuit city here :) Or I'd get one

[03:37:32]

iamlindoro:

GreyFoxx: bummer... I figure it's buying 7 $14 HD-DVDs and you get a free player ;)

[03:38:09]

iamlindoro:

hmm, and per the comments costco has the same deal for $80

[03:40:36]

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[03:41:40]

iamlindoro:

Like I've been saying (perhaps too often) I'm just gonna clean stores out of cheap cheap HD-DVDs and rip 'em... they all look the same to MythVideo

[03:42:16]

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[03:46:08]

iamlindoro:

I had a professor in college who had squirreled away tons of Betamax tapes and recorded everything to them, and had bought three players at fire sales on them

[03:47:09]

iamlindoro:

There he was, 20 years later, playing Alias off of Betamax :)

[03:56:46]

robbins61:

what a poor guy

[03:57:33]

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[03:57:45]

tcpsyn:

I started a fresh db last night.

[03:57:55]

tcpsyn:

and I re-created my tuners with my 2 dvb tuners as 1 and 2

[03:58:02]

tcpsyn:

and then my 2 ntsc tuners as 3 and 4

[03:58:20]

tcpsyn:

and I've matched the callsigns on my dvb stations and ntsc stations

[03:58:29]

tcpsyn:

and preferred inputs 1 and 2

[03:58:31]

tcpsyn:

but..

[03:58:40]

tcpsyn:

my scheduled recordings are only using tuners 3 and 4

[03:58:43]

tcpsyn:

period

[03:59:03]

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[03:59:07]

tcpsyn:

if there's a conflict, that program will not record before it uses tuners 1 and 2

[03:59:14]

tcpsyn:

all 4 tuners work in live tv

[03:59:21]

tcpsyn:

any ideas?

[04:00:24]

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[04:05:37]

robbins61:

Anduin, get any word from IMDB yet?

[04:06:13]

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[04:11:34]

fryfrog:

tcpsyn: did you give the dvb tuners weight? are your recording profiles set to "only this channel"? Is myth setup to "avoid conflicts with live tv" or anything else you can think of?

[04:11:47]

tcpsyn:

weight?

[04:11:53]

fryfrog:

i find that my dvb tuners *always* pick up the channels i have configured on both

[04:11:56]

tcpsyn:

I prefered them both by one.

[04:12:04]

fryfrog:

but i usually use an "any channel any time" profile for recordings

[04:12:07]

fryfrog:

k

[04:12:24]

fryfrog:

what about the "reduce/prevent livetv conflicts" feature?

[04:12:34]

fryfrog:

but i think that usually tries to use a "low" priority tuner :/

[04:12:53]

fryfrog:

you know what, i think the answer is almost certainly that it doesn't think they are the same channel or show

[04:13:11]

fryfrog:

did you make sure the *xmltvid* entry in the db for the "same" channels is also the same? not just the callsigns?

[04:13:38]

fryfrog:

in fact, i'd almost wager that the xmltvid is *more* important than the call sign :/

[04:13:54]

tcpsyn:

I do "this channel at any time"

[04:14:10]

tcpsyn:

but I've set the callsigns the same for both say.. channel 4 and 4_1

[04:14:13]

fryfrog:

1) try "any channel, any time" or 2) make sure xmltvid entry matches

[04:14:33]

tcpsyn:

xmltvid is the same.

[04:14:45]

fryfrog:

humm

[04:14:51]

fryfrog:

then i guess, try 1 and see what it does :)

[04:15:57]

tcpsyn:

Even if I adjust it to prefer input 1

[04:16:03]

tcpsyn:

it uses 4

[04:17:16]

tcpsyn:

like it doesn't even know about the dvb channel list

[04:17:48]

tcpsyn:

oh yeah

[04:17:56]

tcpsyn:

it's not getting any listings for those channels either

[04:18:05]

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[04:19:14]

fryfrog:

oh, there you go

[04:19:22]

fryfrog:

if it doesn't have *listings* for the channel, it won't know what is on

[04:19:30]

fryfrog:

so if you visit mythweb, those channels are *blank*?

[04:19:35]

InteliWasp:

does anyone recomend a decent capture card that can do closed caption?

[04:19:39]

fryfrog:

er, devoid of listings, that is?

[04:19:56]

fryfrog:

ntsc, atsc, pal, dvb, etc?

[04:20:23]

tcpsyn:

Hrm. I gotta setup mythweb again

[04:20:32]

tcpsyn:

I downgraded from svn to stable

[04:20:40]

tcpsyn:

thats why I had to rebuild the db

[04:20:54]

fryfrog:

ah

[04:20:59]

fryfrog:

0.21-fixes or 0.20-fixes?

[04:21:26]

tcpsyn:

0.20.20070821–1

[04:24:07]

GreyFoxx:

night :)

[04:24:11]

GreyFoxx:

oops, wrong channel

[04:24:36]

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[04:40:10]

InteliWasp:

does anyone recomend a decent capture card still for sale that can do closed caption?

[04:40:24]

tank-man:

pvr 150

[04:40:48]

InteliWasp:

i had read that the 150 might not do cc

[04:41:13]

tank-man:

i have the pvr 250 and cc works for me

[04:41:23]

tank-man:

and that is similar to the pvr 150

[04:41:44]

** InteliWasp dives into new egg store... **

[04:42:28]

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[04:43:31]

InteliWasp:

is it posible to pull video off a digital cable box directly?

[04:44:07]

cesman:

firewire

[04:44:21]

tank-man:

or svideo

[04:44:38]

tank-man:

or is that not considered directly

[04:45:13]

InteliWasp:

i mean still mpeg format and not analoge

[04:47:55]

tcpsyn:

I just verified.. The callsigns and xmltvid's are identical on my SD and HD listing sources, but the HD ones get no listing data and are ultimatly ignored in my scheduling.

[04:49:54]

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[04:50:47]

tcpsyn:

I've noticed before that mythfilldatabase --do-channel-updates filled these channels with data, but now it's not working

[04:52:26]

fryfrog:

tcpsyn: i had that problem once before, but i don't recall how i fixed it :/

[04:52:34]

fryfrog:

can you watch mythfilldatabase manual run and see errors?

[04:52:40]

tcpsyn:

I think if I can get the guide data

[04:52:45]

fryfrog:

InteliWasp: fireiwre is the only "way"

[04:52:50]

tcpsyn:

that the scheduling issue is realated

[04:52:52]

tcpsyn:

fryfrog:

i think that will solve it

[04:52:54]

fryfrog:

yeah

[04:52:56]

tcpsyn:

obviously

[04:53:03]

fryfrog:

obviously :)

[04:53:06]

tcpsyn:

heh

[04:53:08]

fryfrog:

i wonder why it isn't getting it :/

[04:53:16]

fryfrog:

wait, hummm

[04:53:20]

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[04:53:25]

fryfrog:

should the xmltvid actually *match*?

[04:53:27]

fryfrog:

i think i'm wrong

[04:53:32]

fryfrog:

when i was doing what you were doing...

[04:53:51]

tcpsyn:

yeah...

[04:53:59]

tcpsyn:

the xmltvid and callsign should match

[04:54:03]

fryfrog:

it was firewire STB and a dvb card, so I was making two *HD* channels match (say, 811 on FW STB and 11_1 on atsc)

[04:54:04]

tcpsyn:

that's how i've done it before

[04:54:16]

fryfrog:

but if you are SD vs. HD, then the xmltv should *not* match, really

[04:54:27]

fryfrog:

because then, it will show up as an "SD" station

[04:54:39]

tcpsyn:

xmltvid is only for guide data right.

[04:54:40]

fryfrog:

even the call sign *should* be different

[04:54:54]

tcpsyn:

so if the SD xmltvid is 10996, the hd channel has the same listing data

[04:54:57]

fryfrog:

i don't think so, i think guide data is different

[04:54:57]

tcpsyn:

I just want to use that

[04:55:10]

fryfrog:

let me check, i can tell you because i have some SD and HD channels which are the same

[04:55:32]

fryfrog:

myth gives "HD" a preference, so if you do "Show Name" at any time on any channel, it will *prefer* the HD version

[04:55:47]

fryfrog:

and if your SD channel gives xmltvid for SD info... it won't know it is HD :/

[04:55:54]

fryfrog:

but that doesnt explain why you get no data either :/

[04:57:55]

tcpsyn:

I may have found it

[04:58:00]

fryfrog:

WAGA (SD, analog) 11269

[04:58:14]

fryfrog:

WAGA (HD, atsc) 20430

[04:58:19]

fryfrog:

so the xmltv id does not match

[04:58:22]

tcpsyn:

oh wow

[04:58:26]

tcpsyn:

but.

[04:58:29]

tcpsyn:

In the myth manual

[04:58:31]

fryfrog:

but for atsc SD, it does

[04:58:37]

tcpsyn:

hrm.

[04:58:42]

fryfrog:

11269 for "WAGA-SD 5_2"

[04:58:42]

amrit|afk is now known as amrit

[04:58:44]

tcpsyn:

That's interesting.

[04:58:52]

tcpsyn:

But the problem here, I'm pretty sure.

[04:59:03]

tcpsyn:

was that I'm a moron, and the HDTV listing source wasn't set up at all.

[04:59:05]

fryfrog:

but what *you* have done *should* be putting SD data into your "HD" channel

[04:59:10]

fryfrog:

oh, bwhahaha

[04:59:12]

fryfrog:

that'd do it :)

[04:59:12]

tcpsyn:

like, I had never assigned it a lineup.

[04:59:24]

fryfrog:

i'd strongly suggest using the right xmltvid though

[04:59:26]

fryfrog:

not the SD one

[04:59:36]

tcpsyn:

Yeah, that'd make sense.

[04:59:38]

fryfrog:

otherwise, myth won't know it is an "HD" showing and will just randomly pick a tuner

[04:59:48]

fryfrog:

rather than saying "oh, i see it in HD and SD, i'll do the HD one"

[04:59:49]

tcpsyn:

That explains why my searches show no results for HDTV recordings

[04:59:53]

fryfrog:

hehe

[04:59:55]

tcpsyn:

because that data is in the HDTV

[04:59:56]

fryfrog:

yup

[05:00:01]

tcpsyn:

I was essentially doing the same thing..

[05:00:06]

tcpsyn:

just by preferring the dvb inputs

[05:00:12]

fryfrog:

ah

[05:00:12]

tcpsyn:

if it can record in hd, it will

[05:00:27]

tcpsyn:

but yeah, that's better

[05:00:29]

fryfrog:

yeah, built in priorities prefer "hd" showings over SD

[05:00:30]

tcpsyn:

match the callsigns

[05:00:40]

tcpsyn:

plus, I set up my cards that way

[05:00:40]

fryfrog:

or just do any channel, any time

[05:00:45]

fryfrog:

and not restrict to a single channel

[05:00:53]

tcpsyn:

if theres no priority, they default to the order they're entered.

[05:00:56]

fryfrog:

there are filters for "not generic, not repeat" etc

[05:00:59]

tcpsyn:

I put the dvb cards as 1 and 2

[05:01:00]

fryfrog:

ah

[05:01:03]

tcpsyn:

they are preferred.

[05:01:05]

tcpsyn:

heh.

[05:01:10]

tcpsyn:

I'll fix the xmltvids

[05:01:17]

tcpsyn:

It'd be nice to have that search functionality.

[05:01:37]

tcpsyn:

in mythweb

[05:02:23]

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[05:03:17]

iamlindoro:

Search for what? Mythweb has a search, perhaps you mean something different...

[05:04:25]

iamlindoro:

oh, ok, I read back, I gotcha

[05:05:15]

mikeones:

iamlindoro: are you using the mythextras/mythflash in svn trunk?

[05:05:57]

mikeones:

straming is broke when I build with mythflash

[05:06:17]

fryfrog:

fix it!

[05:06:20]

iamlindoro:

Nope... why would I need to? I just use the onboard flash player.

[05:06:34]

mikeones:

I see

[05:07:06]

iamlindoro:

I think the mythextras flash player and the svn trunk mythweb being installed together are redundant, but don't quote me on that

[05:07:53]

iamlindoro:

Then again, my saying "Mythweb" just made xris' computer beep, so I imagine he'll eventually step in and set us straight

[05:08:14]

iamlindoro:

furthrmore, xris xris xris, mythweb, nuvexport? nuvexport, xris, mythweb.

[05:12:24]

tcpsyn:

fryfrog, that was it

[05:12:26]

tcpsyn:

all better

[05:12:31]

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[05:13:08]

iamlindoro:

robbins61: per the user's list, IMDB is allowing LWP::Simple back in... imdb.pl should be working.

[05:13:37]

robbins61:

yeah!

[05:15:38]

robbins61:

appears to be working perfectly...love it

[05:16:35]

iamlindoro:

Now you can finally get that Talladega Nights poster you've been waiting on

[05:17:17]

robbins61:

and you know i've been waiting!

[05:17:27]

robbins61:

what's the mass meta thing?

[05:17:34]

robbins61:

i can't remember the name of the app

[05:17:50]

robbins61:

you do -N or something as an option, i remember that much

[05:18:28]

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[05:18:32]

iamlindoro:

Ryan Pisani's script is imdb-bulk-updater for movies, mine is metacleanup.sh, for TV shows and non-IMDB movies.

[05:18:46]

robbins61:

thanks!

[05:18:53]

iamlindoro:

http://www.mythtvtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7077

[05:19:08]

iamlindoro:

Mine is at the top of that thread, Ryan's is linked about five messages down

[05:19:18]

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[05:19:23]

iamlindoro:

np

[05:19:45]

xris:

iamlindoro: the FLEX code in mythextras is already compiled into swf and included with mythweb.

[05:19:59]

iamlindoro:

xris: I figured as much

[05:20:14]

xris:

yup, just confirming that you're correct.

[05:20:29]

iamlindoro:

gotcha, thanks

[05:20:34]

mikeones:

thanks

[05:20:34]

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[05:20:36]

xris:

that's why nothing in mythextras gets installed as a package. mythextras is just a place to drop random other code bits.

[05:20:49]

xris:

I'll still be packaging up nuvexport on forevermore.net like I always have.

[05:20:52]

xris:

afk again.

[05:23:11]

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[05:46:51]

Tanthrix:

Chiptunes are addicting.

[05:48:00]

** iamlindoro googles chiptunes **

[05:49:01]

iamlindoro:

ah, cool

[05:50:38]

fryfrog:

d

[05:51:20]

califdreas:

I just got myself an hdtv card and notice a lot of "dropouts" or "blips" in some recordings. The card is hooked up to cable with real good signal quality. Any ideas what might cause it?

[05:52:36]

iamlindoro:

If you get dropouts in ATSC/MPEG-2 stream recordings, it can pretty much *only* be signal issues or broken stream from the cable co

[05:53:04]

iamlindoro:

keep in mind that signal strength information in myth/linux is not accurate

[05:53:18]

iamlindoro:

so you might not be getting the signal strength you think

[05:55:02]

califdreas:

iamlindoro: that's what I thought at first, but then recordings from the same channel are sometimes flawless and sometimes littered with dropouts.

[05:55:23]

califdreas:

is it possible that my beloved comcast might have issues?

[05:55:44]

Tanthrix:

califdreas: Signal issues are by their very nature intermittent. How many splitters are between the entry point and your myth box?

[05:55:51]

** iamlindoro marks the date for the first time anyone ever said "My beloved Comcast" in #mythtv-users **

[05:57:29]

califdreas:

iamlindoro:yep, they are the good guys. And the earth is a disk :D

[05:58:20]

califdreas:

I have one 4-way-splitter for 3 cards and the tv.

[05:58:52]

iamlindoro:

Heh, I hope for your sake that it's powered

[05:58:54]

Tanthrix:

califdreas: Amped, or regular?

[06:00:15]

califdreas:

no, I tried a highly recommended motorola amp and that caused some horizontal lines, like with a grounding issue.

[06:00:48]

califdreas:

so I left that one out and the picture quality on the tv an d with the analog cards is near perfect.

[06:01:21]

iamlindoro:

analog and digital are different animals. That's almost certainly your problem...

[06:01:46]

Tanthrix:

My money would be on that as well.

[06:02:07]

Tanthrix:

califdreas: Do you recall if the motorola amp in question had a ground (third prong) on the power adapter for it?

[06:03:16]

califdreas:

Tanthrix: It didn't. Instead it had a screw for a grounding cable, and I hooked that up to a ground rod outside.

[06:04:01]

Tanthrix:

Analog and digital are definately very different beasts, as iamlindoro says. I once cut my coax by accident and carefully soldered it back together until Comcast could repair it properly. Analog looked 100 percent perfect, but neither the cable modem nor the digital boxes would work at all.

[06:04:10]

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[06:04:39]

Tanthrix:

califdreas: Not sure what your issue is then, assuming it's a ground loop. In any case, you definately need a powered splitter for a four-way if you're doing digital anything.

[06:05:30]

califdreas:

Well, thanks for the input. I had not even considered that it might be due to bad signal quality.

[06:06:15]

califdreas:

I will test for a day without any splitter and then with the amp and see if that helps

[06:06:43]

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[06:06:46]

Tanthrix:

Good plan.

[06:07:05]

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[06:07:49]

califdreas:

Ever since I started with MythTV I have acquired a ton of spare parts, cables and connectors anyway, so I'll switch them around a little :)

[06:08:33]

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[06:08:41]

califdreas:

Thanks Tanthrix & iamlindoro!

[06:08:51]

iamlindoro:

no prob, good luck

[06:08:53]

Tanthrix:

No prob. Good luck tinkering.

[06:09:02]

mikeones:

I split my cable in a 4way in the attic and in the room with my mythtv server, another 3 way. I never considered a power splitter

[06:09:47]

iamlindoro:

*ouch*

[06:12:47]

Tanthrix:

What sucks for me is that I'm about 300 feet away from the pole, so my signal isn't great from the get go.

[06:13:06]

Tanthrix:

Even with an amped splitter I still get various blips on my A180 card. Comcast boxes seem to work a bit better.

[06:13:14]

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[06:13:27]

iamlindoro:

yeah, they definitely seem a bit more tolerant of poor signal

[06:14:39]

Tanthrix:

iamlindoro: By the way, I'm getting pretty damned impatient with Happuage over here!

[06:14:46]

califdreas:

Ah, that's interesting. I have that very sane aver a180 here.

[06:14:54]

califdreas:

same, that is.

[06:14:56]

iamlindoro:

Unfortunately that tolerance only extends to playback... they still dump the same shite signal out firewire

[06:15:20]

iamlindoro:

Tanthrix: e-mail to Hauppauge PR got a reply saying March

[06:15:39]

Tanthrix:

Oh? Good!

[06:15:45]

iamlindoro:

Hope it stays there

[06:16:15]

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[06:16:21]

Tanthrix:

Aye.

[06:17:32]

Tanthrix:

iamlindoro: That's interesting. I never considered that it might be Myth/ffmpeg's intolerance of TS corruption that makes it more of a problem, rather than chips that need more signal on the tuner cards in comparison to whatever the Comcast boxes use.

[06:18:11]

Tanthrix:

iamlindoro: Makes sense though, since a lot of the problems seem to not be very noticable. The audio blips are the one exception, and they're so short lived that there must be some sort of close to trivial way of ignoring them.

[06:18:19]

iamlindoro:

Tanthrix: well, it's obviously anecdotal, and it could be a little of each...

[06:18:30]

Tanthrix:

True.

[06:19:17]

iamlindoro:

lord knows my firewire streams choke the shit out of mythtranscode

[06:20:19]

iamlindoro:

near as I can tell it's because mythtranscode considers them ever so slightly broken

[06:27:02]

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[06:27:51]

tjcarter:

These days I do exactly two sorts of transcodes

[06:28:25]

tjcarter:

lossless cutlist deletions and re-encode as AVC for archival

[06:29:15]

tjcarter:

In Teh Future when Hauppauge AVC hardware encoders are everywhere, I'll have two of them and there will only be cutlist deletions ;)

[06:29:19]

iamlindoro:

those lossless transcodes are exactly the ones that are impossible for many people with FW.

[06:29:46]

iamlindoro:

A regular transcode will work fine... try to do lossless, however, and mythtranscode tanks.

[06:29:55]

tjcarter:

So my solution works for you too? ;)

[06:30:33]

iamlindoro:

The Hauppauge device will help, but it would still be nicer to not have to resort to a D/A/D conversion

[06:30:34]

** tjcarter still thinks someone outside the US needs to figure out how CableCards work and start selling CableCard-using cards **

[06:30:37]

tjcarter:

muahahaha

[06:31:03]

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[06:31:06]

tjcarter:

but I think that should be done just because it'll piss off the industry

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iamlindoro:

sweet zombie jesus

[06:38:19]

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[06:44:11]

califdreas:

why did y'all leave?

[06:44:59]

iamlindoro:

From our perspective, it was *you* who left

[06:45:05]

iamlindoro:

(netsplit)

[06:45:20]

Dagmar:

Oh come now

[06:45:30]

Dagmar:

You owe it to him to be honest.

[06:45:38]

Dagmar:

*None of us _like_ you.(*

[06:45:49]

iamlindoro:

You got me

[06:45:55]

califdreas:

iamlindoro: that must be some relativistic effect due to my lightning fast internet connection

[06:46:27]

iamlindoro:

That's it... all of us aged six months while you were gone

[06:46:30]

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[06:46:39]

iamlindoro:

'course, *we* have Hauppauge HD PVRs now

[06:46:40]

Dagmar:

Comcast: Internet at the speed of slow.

[06:48:25]

califdreas:

iamlindoro: yeah, well, I went back into the past and stopped the dcma.

[06:48:56]

iamlindoro:

well, you blew it them, because they got the The D *M* CA through after that

[06:49:00]

iamlindoro:

er blew it then

[06:49:43]

califdreas:

darn, these four-letter-things always eluded me. Now whadda we gonna do!

[06:49:53]

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[06:50:09]

iamlindoro:

And now we have no Defense Contract Management Agency... thanks.

[06:50:47]

iamlindoro:

Your dyslexia put tens of thousands of Defense Industry workers out of a job. Real nice.

[06:52:24]

califdreas:

oh you are very welcome. Maybe next time I should try some 3-letter-agency. There's no shortage of them I think.

[06:52:53]

iamlindoro:

You can put any agency that ends in "AA" out of business if you like, but confine it to that

[06:57:04]

califdreas:

I shall think of that while I repair my flux capacitor.

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[07:52:50]

tcpsyn:

how do you select multiple channels in the channel editor

[07:52:52]

tcpsyn:

to delete a lot

[07:54:20]

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[07:59:21]

MilkBoy:

you don't

[07:59:44]

MilkBoy:

easier to delete stuff directly from the database

[08:00:14]

MilkBoy:

(imho, ymmv)

[08:00:16]

iamlindoro__:

or just use the mythweb channel editor and delete as many as you like...

[08:00:32]

iamlindoro__:

by ticking the "delete" box and clicking "update"

[08:00:55]

tcpsyn:

aye. I just deleted them all and rescanned

[08:01:05]

tcpsyn:

damnit

[08:01:12]

tcpsyn:

it added them back

[08:02:15]

tcpsyn:

Hrm, I guess I'd be better to remove those channels from SchedulesDirect

[08:03:40]

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[08:29:37]

tjcarter:

is there a good CLI way to determine the state of a BE, what tuners are in-use, when the next upcoming recording is, etc?

[08:29:46]

tjcarter:

somethhing suitable for sh script

[08:34:10]

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[08:55:54]

waini:

hi

[08:57:17]

waini:

is it possible to start mythbackend with debg mode (i want to see the frequency, sid, .. send out to the dvb-module)?

[09:11:59]

quicksilver:

run it with -v all

[09:12:00]

quicksilver:

IIRC

[09:12:14]

quicksilver:

tjcarter: there is a telnet interface which you might use.

[09:12:38]

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[09:13:31]

Internat:

stupid question with mythvideo how does one increase/decrease volume?

[09:13:54]

quicksilver:

same keys, since it's using the internal player

[09:13:59]

quicksilver:

[ ] by default, IIRC

[09:14:05]

cesman:

that depends on which player you are using

[09:14:05]

quicksilver:

(they're bound in my remote control I'm not 100% sure)

[09:14:39]

Internat:

[] is speed apparently

[09:14:44]

cesman:

if it is the internal player, then it is the same as watching tv

[09:14:57]

cesman:

sounds like mplayer

[09:15:06]

cesman:

9 and 0 will change the volume

[09:15:06]

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[09:15:48]

Internat:

awsome!

[09:15:49]

Internat:

thanks

[09:16:01]

cesman:

you're welcome

[09:16:04]

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[09:19:30]

quicksilver:

ah

[09:19:35]

quicksilver:

sorry ;) wrong keys.

[09:20:37]

tjcarter:

quicksilver: I was thinking something more like a mythstatus tool

[09:21:17]

quicksilver:

understood

[09:21:29]

quicksilver:

you can build somethign which queries the db directly

[09:21:32]

quicksilver:

to answer those quesitons

[09:21:40]

quicksilver:

but it might be easier to script the telent interface

[09:21:50]

tjcarter:

yeah

[09:22:09]

tjcarter:

I have already determined I'm going back to something "stable"

[09:22:28]

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[09:22:33]

tjcarter:

I'll miss glass-wide, which AFAIK requires svn

[09:22:59]

tjcarter:

but I'm kind of frustrated chasing bugs on something I don't actually develop ;)

[09:24:00]

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[10:14:45]

justinh:

woo new xmltv is out

[10:15:13]

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[10:15:19]

justinh:

wonder how the new part time channel stuff works

[10:15:22]

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[10:15:37]

MilkBoy:

before I do something really stupid... Is it "safe" to change the channum value for channels?

[10:15:48]

justinh:

depends

[10:15:49]

Dibblah:

If experience is anything to go by, "With lots of preparation and testing" :(

[10:16:28]

justinh:

MilkBoy: if in doubt – or actually just as a matter of course – back up the database first!!!!

[10:16:50]

MilkBoy:

auch... problem being, I have 10 channel "1", and a few channels which actually are the same but with different channums

[10:16:57]

justinh:

you'd have to be _mental_ not to bother backing up your database regularly

[10:17:14]

Dibblah:

I was mental not that long ago.

[10:17:24]

MilkBoy:

mmm.. backup..

[10:17:30]

Dibblah:

... Last backup I had was before Christmas.

[10:17:33]

justinh:

I still am apparently, just not that way ;)

[10:17:41]

MilkBoy:

whoa.. the media computer is not oncluded in my backup scheme =D

[10:17:54]

justinh:

automysqlbackup.sh <3

[10:17:57]

MilkBoy:

aaanyway.. it's just experimental

[10:18:07]

justinh:

get into good habits early

[10:18:38]

MilkBoy:

is that the same automysqlbackup script that keeps monthly backups forever? =)

[10:18:52]

justinh:

could be

[10:18:59]

justinh:

they don't take up much room though

[10:19:08]

MilkBoy:

got some version of it on the production servers

[10:19:25]

MilkBoy:

emptied 2 years of backups recently.. that was like 2 gigs only =D

[10:21:18]

justinh:

2 gigs for 2 years eh.. that's like an hour of TV.. if that :)

[10:23:07]

MilkBoy:

for the databases

[10:23:28]

MilkBoy:

like 2gigs/24 months = size of db:s

[10:25:58]

dec__ is now known as dec

[10:32:17]

MilkBoy:

mm.. too lazy to set up some fancy backup scheme.. mysqldump in cron, and let the normal home dir backup take care of versioning

[10:40:00]

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[10:58:49]

DustyBin:

after a long think, i might rip my CDs into FLAC format for my mythtv box, then do another rip, FLAC > AAC for my ipod. This way i get best all round

[10:59:52]

directhex|work:

you could use aac generally

[10:59:58]

directhex|work:

do you need lossless?

[11:00:16]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: aac playback on linux will not be as good as itunes / ipod

[11:00:30]

DustyBin:

linux can only do mp3, ogg, flac

[11:00:52]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, lol, wut?

[11:01:19]

DustyBin:

isnt that true?

[11:01:41]

DustyBin:

the linux aac encoder is something what is just hacked together

[11:01:54]

directhex|work:

according to whom?

[11:02:07]

DustyBin:

thats what i thought

[11:02:22]

directhex|work:

libfaac is heavily used on all platforms

[11:02:27]

justinh:

by logical extension you could argue the kernel is 'just something what is hacked together'

[11:02:28]

DustyBin:

"FAAC is an Advanced Audio Coder (MPEG2-AAC, MPEG4-AAC). The goal of FAAC is to explore the possibilities of AAC and exceed the quality of the currently best MP3 encoders."

[11:03:34]

DustyBin:

would a 256kbps encoded AAC file sound better than a 256kbps mp3 file?

[11:03:42]

directhex|work:

yes, significantly

[11:03:49]

DustyBin:

however

[11:04:18]

DustyBin:

would a 256kbps encoded AAC file sound better play backed on a ipod/itunes than on a linux box / libfaac ?

[11:04:25]

justinh:

who knows?

[11:04:30]

justinh:

try it

[11:04:52]

DustyBin:

thats what im worried about

[11:04:53]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, no

[11:05:05]

DustyBin:

are you sure?..

[11:05:23]

DustyBin:

surely apple encoder is more advanced than libfaac ?

[11:05:29]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, the bitstream is defined. decoding should be entirely the same across platforms, assuming you aren't using post-processing effects like equalisers

[11:05:48]

justinh:

directhex|work: the decoder can have a bearing on it too

[11:05:54]

directhex|work:

would you expect a .jpg to "look better" on internet explorer than firefox?

[11:06:03]

DustyBin:

decoder is for playback

[11:06:22]

directhex|work:

justinh, consider the quality of, say, the mp3 encoders in itunes or windows media player

[11:06:26]

DustyBin:

apples original AAC decoder, or the hacked together libfaac decoder ?

[11:06:36]

directhex|work:

what's this "hacked together" thing?

[11:06:52]

directhex|work:

hell, the best mp3 encoder on the planet started life as a big .diff file

[11:06:53]

justinh:

directhex|work: if the encode/decode algorithms are different, then yeah it'll sound different on different platforms

[11:07:01]

justinh:

'better' is for your ear to decide

[11:07:13]

DustyBin:

justinh: thats what im worried about

[11:07:19]

justinh:

DustyBin: TRY IT

[11:07:29]

directhex|work:

1) your hearing isn't good enough to notice

[11:07:39]

directhex|work:

2) everything in open source is "hacked together"

[11:07:40]

DustyBin:

justinh: i might only notice after ive spent 3 days ripping :S

[11:08:04]

directhex|work:

and in closed source too. you think apple have clean room labs for developers? it's just greasy men in t-shirts hacking away in vi

[11:08:10]

justinh:

DustyBin: oh ffs. fed up with your pontification

[11:08:51]

DustyBin:

i will have to use itunes to rip my CDs into AAC

[11:09:15]

DustyBin:

justinh: ripping takes a lot of time and effort, its important to get it right first time round

[11:09:16]

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[11:10:01]

justinh:

select a few tracks you're very familiar with, rip them into various formats & then compare them. won't take long & it'll answer a lot of questions without the need for posturing & bollocks in here

[11:10:14]

directhex|work:

justinh, you missed the word "uninformed"

[11:10:42]

DustyBin:

http://www.rjamorim.com/test/aac128v2/results.html

[11:11:38]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, 2003?

[11:11:51]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, you think faac hasn't been improved for 5 years?

[11:12:09]

directhex|work:

wait, that's v2. 2004, 4 years

[11:12:57]

DustyBin:

jeeze didnt see that

[11:19:59]

justinh:

and ffs you can't base anything on some ducking tables on a webpage. I only trust my ears

[11:21:18]

directhex|work:

that test is for FAAC 1.23.5 versus Apple iTunes 4.2

[11:21:35]

DustyBin:

im ripping moby 18 into perfect flac format from mythtv just to see the file size

[11:22:10]

DustyBin:

i have a 500 gig audio drive, i dont listen to that much music

[11:22:41]

DustyBin:

but i do have a set of quad-lite speakers connected to my mythtv box :D

[11:24:36]

** directhex|work waves his magic wand **

[11:25:32]

DustyBin:

cd paranoia is making my cd drive motor stop and start, maybe crap on the disc

[11:25:34]

directhex|work:

350 meg

[11:25:37]

directhex|work:

give or take

[11:26:00]

directhex|work:

cdparanoia's status messages inform you when there are unfixable problems

[11:27:24]

DustyBin:

-rw-r--r-- 1 102 104 32M 2008-02–21 11:21 01 – We Are All Made Of Stars.flac

[11:29:20]

directhex|work:

32*18 would be... somewhat more than i guessed! is your flac compression turned down low?

[11:29:39]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: im using the built in mythtv 'perfect' setting

[11:36:05]

DustyBin:

456M 18

[11:36:14]

directhex|work:

that's either compression level 5 or 6. trying to be certain

[11:37:21]

directhex|work:

-r3? O_o okay, it's not ANY known flac compression standard

[11:37:36]

DustyBin:

500000 (500 GIG HD) / 500M per album = 1000 albums

[11:37:37]

directhex|work:

-r3,3 even

[11:37:54]

directhex|work:

why is flac not "hacked together"?

[11:38:13]

DustyBin:

it might well be, but at least its lossless :P

[11:39:19]

DustyBin:

1000 albums is a LOT of music

[11:39:30]

directhex|work:

anyway, the flac settings used by mythtv are "-l 8 -b 4096 -m -r 3,3"

[11:39:37]

DustyBin:

aye ok

[11:39:43]

directhex|work:

the 3,3 is just plain weird to my eye

[11:41:30]

DustyBin:

if the FLAC compression can be pushed up, that would be seriously good

[11:41:51]

directhex|work:

if you edit the source

[11:42:05]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: i might rip the music manually instead

[11:42:10]

DustyBin:

direct from my desktop

[11:43:18]

directhex|work:

a sound idea

[11:43:24]

directhex|work:

oh, and 500GB isn;t 500GiB

[11:50:15]

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[11:51:18]

Dagmar:

Yeah, but no one cares about that. Heh

[11:51:52]

Dagmar:

...except for the people who are CONVINCED that they've found a bug in the way linux makes partitions/filesystems/sector_counts.

[11:52:00]

Dagmar:

...and they just can't handle simple math.

[11:53:44]

directhex|work:

maths is HARD! let's go shopping! tee hee!

[11:54:38]

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[11:56:50]

jblack:

I'm bored. Today would be a good day for the space aliens to invade, or the zombies to attack

[11:57:51]

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[11:57:54]

DustyBin:

interesting

[11:58:02]

justinh:

the zombies are always coming in here

[11:58:07]

DustyBin:

just used 'sound juicer' to rip cd > flac and the results were

[11:58:09]

DustyBin:

449M 18

[11:58:33]

DustyBin:

sound juicer ripped a hell of a lot faster than mythtv

[11:58:43]

DustyBin:

there wasnt any of those motor stop and starts either

[11:58:47]

directhex|work:

with which compression level?

[11:58:55]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: just default settings

[11:59:00]

directhex|work:

justinh, braiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiins?

[11:59:02]

DustyBin:

there isnt anything technical in sound juicer

[11:59:36]

DustyBin:

think i need to turn cd paranoia off on the ripper settings in mythtv

[12:00:03]

justinh:

I have two files here, which one sounds best? please help :-\

[12:00:34]

directhex|work:

very probably compression level 5

[12:00:47]

jblack:

Well, is one of them the spice girls, and the other Elton john?

[12:00:55]

directhex|work:

and cdparanoia is significantly better at getting error-free rips from disc

[12:01:05]

directhex|work:

jblack, there's the occasional great elton john track

[12:01:25]

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[12:01:46]

DustyBin:

now its rhythmbox turn

[12:02:01]

jblack:

Yah... But there's no great spice girl tracks. Thusly, we could give competent advice on "which one sounds best"

[12:02:25]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, rhythmbox uses gstreamer for ripping, same as sound juicer#

[12:02:28]

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[12:02:31]

DustyBin:

audio/x-raw-int,rate=44100,channels=2 ! flacenc name=enc

[12:02:33]

DustyBin:

oh yes

[12:03:14]

DustyBin:

this will mean have to use bastard terminal :P

[12:03:44]

DustyBin:

flac --help isnt for the faint hearted :P

[12:03:52]

directhex|work:

flac -8

[12:03:55]

directhex|work:

easy

[12:04:15]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: first i would need to rip my cd into .wav

[12:04:20]

justinh:

hmm playing this mp3 definitely sounds better than /dev/random

[12:04:21]

DustyBin:

then use a approriate flac command

[12:04:46]

directhex|work:

justinh, only if you used --alt-preset extreme though!

[12:05:00]

DustyBin:

justinh: listen to all those mp3 artifacts while your there

[12:05:51]

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[12:07:38]

DustyBin:

-8, --compression-level-8, --best Synonymous with -l 12 -b 4608 -m -e -r 6

[12:07:57]

** DustyBin wonders if mythmusic .21 will use that **

[12:15:15]

DustyBin:

-rw-rw-r-- 1 dustybin dustybin 23M 2008-02–21 12:07 01 – We Are All Made of Stars.wav

[12:15:20]

DustyBin:

-rw-r--r-- 1 102 104 32M 2008-02–21 11:21 01 – We Are All Made Of Stars.flac

[12:15:23]

DustyBin:

o_0

[12:15:38]

Dagmar:

Don't ask us.

[12:15:39]

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[12:15:51]

Dagmar:

You're the one who picked the conversion settings.

[12:15:59]

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[12:16:11]

DustyBin:

the .wav is smaller than the .flac lol

[12:16:24]

Dagmar:

Well, they say ignorance is bliss.

[12:16:28]

DustyBin:

Dagmar: those were mythtv perfect settings!

[12:17:53]

DustyBin:

time to do a flac -8 compression from the terminal on the same track

[12:22:16]

DustyBin:

flac -8 "01 – We Are All Made of Stars.wav"

[12:22:26]

DustyBin:

01 – We Are All Made of Stars.wav: ERROR: unsupported bits-per-sample 25

[12:22:31]

DustyBin:

hmmm

[12:22:48]

directhex|work:

your file is twatted

[12:22:54]

Dagmar:

Are we supposed to care what you're doing over there?

[12:23:00]

DustyBin:

bastard sound juicer made those .wavs

[12:23:10]

justinh:

it doesn't matter. It's Moby

[12:24:10]

directhex|work:

'wav audio' in sound juicer is 24khz

[12:24:13]

directhex|work:

22, even

[12:24:31]

directhex|work:

i.e. not cd quality

[12:24:33]

justinh:

eew

[12:24:48]

justinh:

not FM radio quality either, in theory

[12:25:03]

justinh:

save space by cutting off the frequencies you're too old to hear!

[12:25:09]

directhex|work:

indeed. it's marked as 'voice, lossless'

[12:25:17]

DustyBin:

jeeze how lame

[12:25:43]

directhex|work:

you know you can do flac -> flac, right?

[12:26:07]

justinh:

yeah it's lossless formats you don't copy one to another if you know what's best ;)

[12:26:13]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: jeeze i forgot, its lossless

[12:26:20]

DustyBin:

lol

[12:26:26]

justinh:

just for fun, make an mp3 of an mp3 of an mp3 of an mp3 & see how it sounds :)

[12:26:40]

justinh:

even if you keep the bitrate the same

[12:27:00]

directhex|work:

justinh, if i increase the bitrate, it sounds better!

[12:27:46]

justinh:

mm baby, the music sounds better with.. moar bitrate!

[12:28:03]

directhex|work:

MOAR!

[12:29:28]

DustyBin:

the decoded .flac

[12:29:31]

DustyBin:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 46M 2008-02–21 11:21 01 – We Are All Made Of Stars.wav

[12:31:02]

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[12:31:15]

DustyBin:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 32M 2008-02–21 11:21 01 – We Are All Made Of Stars.flac <-- using -8

[12:31:39]

DustyBin:

-rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv 32M 2008-02–21 11:21 01 – We Are All Made Of Stars_2.flac <-- mythtv

[12:32:11]

DustyBin:

why are the times the same o_0

[12:36:24]

justinh:

why do birds suddenly appear ?

[12:36:31]

DustyBin:

there is hardly any difference, 32636576 mythtv, 32566617 using --best setting

[12:39:44]

Dagmar:

So?

[12:40:00]

Dagmar:

I wasn't aware flac made _any_ guarantee about the resulting file being smaller.

[12:40:11]

DustyBin:

directhex|work thought it might

[12:41:01]

Dagmar:

All the promise is that it'll be _lossless_, and that it'll be digital (in a roundabout way).

[12:41:22]

DustyBin:

aye

[12:41:24]

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[12:42:01]

Dagmar:

One of these days you're going to run something that'll make your computer sprout a sword-wielding arm and lop off your willie and all we're going to have to say to you about it is "you should have read the documentation"

[12:42:24]

DustyBin:

o_0

[12:42:41]

jblack:

Someone has been watching too much anime

[12:42:44]

Dagmar:

That the file became larger should _not_ have confused you.

[12:43:14]

justinh:

can you all please address people on my ignore list by their nicks so I can't see what you're saying?

[12:43:21]

DustyBin:

lol

[12:43:26]

Dagmar:

hahah

[12:43:31]

** directhex|work proposes use of penis-shaped sound waves **

[12:43:38]

jblack:

justinh: heh. Can you provide us a list of who you're ignoring?

[12:43:46]

DustyBin:

dont paste

[12:43:49]

justinh:

hmm on 2nd thoughts....

[12:44:09]

Dibblah:

Or, do the /ignore in software ;)

[12:46:12]

Dagmar:

...or hire contractors to go and +q the user.

[12:53:33]

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[13:08:17]

DustyBin:

do non-apple hardware players use the open source libfaac to play back AAC files?

[13:10:38]

rinaldi_:

directhex|work: hey there, a few days ago i spoke about the ps3 problems with mpeg-2. found out the problem. sony said that the latest firmware version had increased upnp "security" which broke the streams of mpeg-2 ts files. what a coincidence... there is also no fixed date yet. people have got their hopes up though...

[13:11:27]

directhex|work:

rinaldi_, sounds like they're full of shit to me

[13:12:10]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, mpeg4 part 3 is a published spec

[13:12:49]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, and faad2 is GPL (i.e. can't be integrated into closed-source apps)

[13:13:58]

rinaldi_:

directhex|work: yeh i know, shame because that would have been perfect, also i tried mediatomb, but for some reason mediatomb doesnt even see the recording as a video file at all

[13:20:10]

DustyBin:

ive boiled everything down to 3 solutions

[13:20:13]

DustyBin:

http://paste.linux-noob.com/index.php?query=2487

[13:23:10]

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[13:25:16]

directhex|work:

faac is an encoder, not a decoder

[13:26:08]

DustyBin:

oh

[13:26:39]

DustyBin:

so what lib is used to play back a AAC in linux?

[13:26:49]

directhex|work:

faad2

[13:26:52]

directhex|work:

generally

[13:27:11]

DGnome:

Anyone seen an explanation to the tuning parameters for DVB-T or DVB.C ?

[13:27:13]

DustyBin:

faac could easily be replaced with itunes for the ripping

[13:27:58]

directhex|work:

libfaad2 is used by xmms, bmp, mythmusic, avidemux, and gstreamer apps

[13:28:13]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: does faad2 play back a AAC with the exact same quality as a ipod/itunes ?

[13:28:19]

directhex|work:

that's not to say portions of faad source aren't in other apps

[13:29:41]

directhex|work:

infact, that's definitely the case. ffmpeg contains 'faad.c' and 'faac.c'

[13:30:39]

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[14:05:00]

rinaldi_:

how can i apply mythstranscode to a scheduled recording?

[14:05:43]

justinh:

edit the recording options

[14:06:59]

rinaldi_:

justinh: how can i apply the --mpeg2 option to it?

[14:07:36]

justinh:

the 'lossless' option?

[14:07:50]

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[14:09:12]

rinaldi_:

justinh: wher can i change that? under post recording processing?

[14:09:39]

justinh:

you guessed it, since it's processing that takes place after recording

[14:10:36]

rinaldi_:

justinh: hmm, i only get autodetect, high quality, medium quality and low quality options

[14:11:01]

jblack:

rinaldi_: What high, medium and low mean is defined in the settings pages.

[14:11:49]

rinaldi_:

so where exactly is lossless?

[14:12:34]

jblack:

I dunno. i think I've seen a lossless option in there somewhere.

[14:12:54]

GreyFoxx:

When you go into a transcoding profile it's on the first page

[14:12:58]

GreyFoxx:

a check box

[14:13:47]

rinaldi_:

ah gotcha, thanks i'l give it a try

[14:16:16]

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[15:02:05]

DustyBin:

can faad2 decode a AAC file exactly the same as a IPOD/ITUNES? If something is decoded, does that mean its either decoded or not, ie, there can only be one kind of decoding? or can there be different quality in the actual decoding process?

[15:03:44]

quicksilver:

only one kind of decoding

[15:03:51]

quicksilver:

decoding is absolute

[15:03:53]

quicksilver:

(encoding is not)

[15:04:05]

quicksilver:

the critical step when playing is the DAC

[15:04:05]

directhex|work:

in serial, that ought to be the case

[15:04:13]

quicksilver:

the purely digital part is safe enough.

[15:04:24]

quicksilver:

(of course, faad2 might have bugs in! but that's not the same thing)

[15:04:59]

justinh:

oh ffs not still this!

[15:05:04]

quicksilver:

on the other hand some decoders post-process after the decoding

[15:05:07]

DustyBin:

15:03 < quicksilver> only one kind of decoding <-- if thats the case, then a mythtv box can play back AAC files what have been 'encoded' on itunes, exactly the same as a IPOD / ITUNES !!

[15:05:20]

quicksilver:

DustyBin: and that is indeed true, yes.

[15:05:20]

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[15:05:30]

quicksilver:

I do so myself, although not very often.

[15:05:30]

DustyBin:

good news :D

[15:05:35]

justinh:

some codecs, you DO benefit from having improved decoding algorithms

[15:05:35]

quicksilver:

and without the CAPS and !!!

[15:05:58]

quicksilver:

justinh: normally that's a separate post-process pass, is it not?

[15:06:02]

justinh:

nope

[15:06:08]

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[15:06:21]

DustyBin:

decoding is absolute justinh

[15:06:25]

quicksilver:

certainly many video decoders do all kinds of post process shit to try to improve things.

[15:06:37]

justinh:

ATRAC is one example, as used on minidisc

[15:06:39]

quicksilver:

DustyBin: I only meant for AAC. Not for all imagineable codecs.

[15:06:44]

DustyBin:

oh ok

[15:06:47]

quicksilver:

AAC and mp3 are both deterministic decode.

[15:07:10]

justinh:

it's reckoned that a disc recorded with one old version of atrac can sound better played back with a newer version than it was recorded with

[15:07:17]

GreyFoxx:

quicksilver: "decoders" do nothing of the sort

[15:07:35]

quicksilver:

GreyFoxx: yes, I was using the term loosely in the sentence.

[15:07:41]

justinh:

heh and it's players, not decoders doing the post-processing

[15:07:41]

DustyBin:

so the logic is, if i rip all my CDs using Itunes, 256kbps AAC files, mythtv will be able to play them back exactly the same as if they were played on my ipod and itunes, there would be no quality differences in the decoding

[15:07:44]

GreyFoxx:

ok

[15:07:51]

quicksilver:

GreyFoxx: that's what I meant (to justinh) about post-processing.

[15:08:12]

justinh:

post-processing has FA to do with it

[15:08:30]

quicksilver:

?

[15:08:48]

quicksilver:

I think we're at crossed purposes and I"m not sure I have the energy to argue with you

[15:09:10]

justinh:

decoding is never absolute in terms of psychoacoustic codecs

[15:09:21]

DustyBin:

justinh: we are talking about AAC

[15:09:36]

justinh:

not all mp3 decoders are made the same

[15:10:03]

DustyBin:

Apples AAC decoder will do the exact same job as Linux faad2 decoder

[15:10:16]

DustyBin:

the output would look 100% the same

[15:10:37]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, can you try something for me?

[15:10:37]

justinh:

not all *insert decoder name* decoders are made the same either

[15:10:46]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: whats that

[15:10:53]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, play an aac file with winamp

[15:11:01]

DustyBin:

im in windows now

[15:11:03]

DustyBin:

hold on

[15:11:07]

quicksilver:

my understanding of MP3 and AAC was that decoding was "just" a fourier transform.

[15:11:28]

quicksilver:

whilst encoding was a complex decision about which parts to compress most and which least.

[15:11:33]

quicksilver:

maybe I simplified it too much.

[15:12:16]

justinh:

well, obviously some software decoders do a better job than others. wmp makes a ducking awful job compared to vlc, for example

[15:12:43]

mick_laptop:

if i have a DVD that i just backed up (and i changed the name -so it doesn't pull a thumbnail) — how can i change that?

[15:13:42]

quicksilver:

A little research says that MP3 decoding is precisely specified by the standard and that most decoders will produce the same bitstream, given the same mp3 file.

[15:13:46]

quicksilver:

that's what I thought was the case...

[15:14:04]

mick_laptop:

justinh: not to mention, sometimes a video player will just work better on one box (like playing DVDs on my system — works great in mplayer, quality looks worse in vlc)

[15:14:19]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: winamp is playing the AAC

[15:14:28]

justinh:

quicksilver: if that was the case, WMP wouldn't sound like arse compared to VLC or winamp

[15:14:28]

mick_laptop:

not the case with another box that i have

[15:14:35]

DustyBin:

does that mean winamp is using the faad2 decoder

[15:15:02]

quicksilver:

justinh: I'd be inclined to suspect dodgy post-processing *shrug*

[15:15:02]

directhex|work:

DustyBin, no, but it's not using apple's decoder. notice any difference?

[15:15:25]

DustyBin:

directhex|work: yes ive noticed a few artifacts in the lower 2347.3 frequency

[15:15:27]

mick_laptop:

i'm under video manager now — if i go to edit it doesn't have a field for IMDB number to change it (or to search for that matter) :-/

[15:15:43]

justinh:

god, the amount of bollocks talked in here these days is unbelievable

[15:15:52]

DustyBin:

:P

[15:16:12]

justinh:

mick_laptop: you're using a broken theme

[15:16:42]

mick_laptop:

MythCenter-wide

[15:17:10]

** mick_laptop tries another **

[15:17:16]

justinh:

so you upgraded mythtv & didn't update the themes

[15:17:42]

mick_laptop:

no – fresh install

[15:18:14]

justinh:

well, sounds like the video-ui.xml file has a 'textedit' area for the IMDB entry rather than a 'remoteedit' area

[15:18:17]

mick_laptop:

other themes do that too

[15:18:43]

justinh:

lemme guess. ubuntu packages?

[15:18:46]

mick_laptop:

i'm under "Edit Video Information"

[15:18:50]

mick_laptop:

yes :)

[15:18:56]

justinh:

weekly builds?

[15:19:00]

mick_laptop:

nope

[15:19:05]

mick_laptop:

mythbuntu

[15:19:17]

directhex|work:

hardy alpha?

[15:19:24]

justinh:

well, the version of themes/ui files is out of step somehow

[15:19:28]

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[15:19:59]

mick_laptop:

hmm

[15:21:43]

justinh:

you know how I guessed you were on ubuntu? somebody was in here the other day with the same problem

[15:22:20]

justinh:

and I know about that symptom because I had to fix all my shitty themes in trunk a while back

[15:22:28]

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[15:22:31]

directhex|work:

ubuntu's themes are outdated

[15:22:42]

directhex|work:

poke superm1. he lives over there --->

[15:22:49]

justinh:

well, they'll have less to keep up to date :)

[15:23:14]

Hoxzer:

I was wondering how important it is to have exactly same gcc version in all distcc nodes when compiling mythtv? I'm havign problems with mythtv and only with it

[15:23:51]

directhex|work:

Hoxzer, vital, generally

[15:23:56]

directhex|work:

Hoxzer, and you mean g++

[15:24:00]

rinaldi_:

justinh: you know when i select to do the post processing with transcoding how do i know when it is finished? the video file is in the recordings folder...

[15:24:08]

directhex|work:

Hoxzer, c++ ABI breaks every 20 minutes

[15:24:13]

mick_laptop:

ok, i wonder – if i get some themes if that will help me

[15:24:14]

justinh:

job status screen

[15:25:36]

rinaldi_:

justinh: where can i find that?

[15:25:55]

justinh:

information centre

[15:26:16]

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[15:26:21]

** justinh stops being the fecking manual **

[15:26:49]

Dagmar:

FRENCHY!

[15:26:51]

rinaldi_:

alight alright, thanks found it

[15:26:56]

Dagmar:

"centre" pfft.

[15:27:25]

justinh:

ok then. Center (sic)

[15:28:37]

justinh:

where the autoexpiring list is gonna move from when I have my wicked way with it

[15:28:49]

directhex|work:

kinky

[15:39:28]

GreyFoxx:

yay, my projector screen arrived

[15:40:28]

Ojg:

anyone using a wintv hvr3000 here ?

[15:40:32]

jackson:

GreyFoxx, what type of screen?

[15:40:55]

justinh:

Ojg: nobody talks about 'wintv' anything here :P

[15:41:15]

GreyFoxx:

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Search . . . p;CatId=2444

[15:41:19]

Ojg:

justinh: will its the tvcards name :S

[15:41:34]

justinh:

Ojg: hvr3000 will do

[15:41:48]

GreyFoxx:

being it's my first projector, AND I just bought a LCD flatscreen last week I wasn't gonna shell out thousands of $$$ on a screen :)

[15:42:25]

jackson:

GreyFoxx, understand – I just ended up painting the wall flat white (I'm in a total light controlled room) then painted the rest of the room black :)

[15:42:39]

Ojg:

anyway anyone using a hvr3000 ? having problems getting the analog tuner to work

[15:42:47]

jackson:

what projector? I'm using an infocus in72.

[15:42:48]

GreyFoxx:

jackson: I was gonna do that, but we decided to put a flatscreen on that wall for "regular" stuff

[15:43:16]

GreyFoxx:

so I'm gonna hang the screen just in front of it from the ceiling

[15:43:16]

jackson:

it's amazing what difference the dark ceiling/walls make (black in my instance)

[15:43:21]

directhex|work:

there's no market for home projectors in .uk

[15:43:21]

justinh:

Ojg: no mention is made of the analogue part of that card on http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV-HVR-3000 so I'd assume it doesn't work in linux

[15:43:56]

justinh:

directhex|work: cos so few people have houses with big enough livingrooms :P

[15:44:03]

GreyFoxx:

jackson: I'm getting a uses infocus 4805. only 1000 hours on the bulb. It belongs to a friend of mine and I've watched many an hour of stuff on it, and it's more than enough for my uses :)

[15:44:10]

justinh:

how many projectors have throws of < 4feet ?

[15:44:14]

GreyFoxx:

especially with the flatscreen there for regular stuff

[15:44:19]

directhex|work:

justinh, indeed!

[15:44:33]

GreyFoxx:

justinh: heh

[15:44:36]

GreyFoxx:

that would be a problem :)

[15:44:42]

directhex|work:

justinh, no wonder people go mad for lcd tellies, it doubles the floorspace in the lounge!

[15:44:51]

Ojg:

justinh: found mailing lists where it seems like they got i to work but cant get any information about how

[15:45:17]

justinh:

you should see them round by my place. all have their flat screens above the fireplace. they must have stuff necks all the time

[15:45:43]

GreyFoxx:

I'd be teriffied of heat damage

[15:46:07]

directhex|work:

chimneys are for rich people!

[15:46:26]

directhex|work:

GreyFoxx, there are greater dangers to tvs than heat

[15:47:10]

GreyFoxx:

I wouldn't think so if the TV was just above a fireplace :)

[15:47:20]

GreyFoxx:

but my fear might be unreasonable :)

[15:47:27]

GreyFoxx:

being that I don't have a fireplace :)

[15:47:31]

directhex|work:

consider how hot a plasma runs anyway...

[15:47:35]

justinh:

when the top of the mantel is 4 feet off the ground

[15:47:38]

jackson:

GreyFoxx, I must say that I've been really impressed witht eh picture that the in72 throws – ~92" diag from 12'

[15:47:40]

mick_laptop:

anyone know if i can add AssaultCube as a "game"?

[15:47:46]

mick_laptop:

i'm not into ROMs much

[15:47:54]

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[15:48:00]

mick_laptop:

and atm – i start it outside of mythtv

[15:48:18]

mick_laptop:

but i'd like to go under "MythGames" and start it from there

[15:48:29]

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[15:48:29]

GreyFoxx:

mick_laptop: Go into mythgames setup,m define a PC game

[15:48:40]

GreyFoxx:

point it to the location of the binary, give it a name , etc

[15:48:42]

iamlindoro:

You can run any script or executable from mythgame with some cajoling

[15:48:53]

GreyFoxx:

if you have extra work to do, make a shellscript

[15:50:28]

mick_laptop:

ok, i did that – but under "games" – it isn't listed

[15:50:56]

mick_laptop:

just says "game root" on the left

[15:51:04]

mick_laptop:

and favorites, all games ....

[15:51:26]

GreyFoxx:

Ahhh

[15:51:40]

GreyFoxx:

you still have to do a "scan for games" or whatever I called it

[15:51:50]

mick_laptop:

i did

[15:51:56]

mick_laptop:

it added the "players"

[15:51:57]

GreyFoxx:

hmmm that should do it

[15:52:02]

GreyFoxx:

lemme try it here

[15:52:04]

mick_laptop:

still nothing is listed :-/.

[15:52:20]

mick_laptop:

it did say "adding to ROM database"

[15:52:53]

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[15:53:29]

mick_laptop:

"Game Player" > i added a playername, type: pc game, command: ~/AssaultCube/assaultcube.sh then "finish"

[15:53:36]

mick_laptop:

then i did a "scan for games"

[15:53:38]

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[15:53:42]

mick_laptop:

then i looked in "Games"

[15:54:09]

GreyFoxx:

It's there in mine

[15:54:16]

GreyFoxx:

under Byname, by year, by genre

[15:54:25]

GreyFoxx:

all have links to it

[15:54:29]

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[15:54:48]

GreyFoxx:

hmmmm what version of myth are you running ?

[15:55:28]

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[15:55:35]

mick_laptop:

ok it does show up deep in there – still can't start the game

[15:56:17]

GreyFoxx:

I did fix a bug back in april'07 related to PC game scanning.... honestly I'm not sure if I backported it to 0.20-fixes or not

[15:56:42]

GreyFoxx:

if you see it in there, and you try to launch it, it should have some output on the frontends console output

[15:57:09]

mick_laptop:

hmm, how can i see what version i have... actually hold on, i'll use dpkg to tell me

[15:57:23]

GreyFoxx:

even just a "Launching Game" type message

[15:57:39]

mick_laptop:

0.20.2

[15:58:03]

GreyFoxx:

That might suffer from the scanning bug I fixed, but if you see the game in the list it "should" be ok

[15:58:18]

GreyFoxx:

what do you see in the frontends console output when you try to run the game ?

[15:58:22]

mick_laptop:

if i go to "all games" it lists my player

[15:58:55]

mick_laptop:

if i select the right arrow – it gives me a directory listsing (so i go to assaultcube)

[15:59:22]

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[15:59:28]

mick_laptop:

and i press enter and it wants to know which player to choose – i hit the assaultcube player

[15:59:38]

mick_laptop:

press enter and nothing happens

[15:59:45]

mick_laptop:

it just goes away

[16:00:06]

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[16:00:09]

GreyFoxx:

look at the output of the frontend

[16:00:15]

Hoxzer:

Wohoo

[16:00:16]

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[16:00:16]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[16:00:16]

GreyFoxx:

(not talking graphical interface)

[16:00:35]

Hoxzer:

:) Updated g++ on another distcc node and now Mythtv compiles with distcc

[16:00:35]

mick_laptop:

yes, i'll start it from a terminal

[16:01:04]

mick_laptop:

Hoxzer: how much faster is it? (w/ 2 compilers vs 1)

[16:01:24]

mick_laptop:

i did that and i had about 6 computers compiling – things went blazing fast

[16:01:40]

mick_laptop:

i didn't do it for mythtv though

[16:02:42]

directhex|work:

it's already fast enough on 1 machin

[16:02:43]

directhex|work:

ee

[16:03:30]

Hoxzer:

mick_laptop: It is clearly notictable..

[16:04:18]

mick_laptop:

GreyFoxx: it says: MythThemedDialog.o: something is requesting a sxcreen update of zero size

[16:04:22]

Hoxzer:

mick_laptop: Can't really tell because I'm using ccache and I haven't measured it but I think it is more than 50% to speed. It can also be almost 90%

[16:04:33]

mick_laptop:

ccache is evil

[16:04:35]

Hoxzer:

mick_laptop: I'm usign two computer one 3200+ and one 2.4Ghz pentium 4

[16:05:01]

mick_laptop:

i did some cross comiling stuff w/ ccache enabled and i found taht all of my problems were due to ccache

[16:05:25]

stuarta:

cross compiling is a black art at the best of times

[16:05:37]

stuarta:

combining that with ccache is asking for trouble

[16:06:01]

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[16:06:07]

Hoxzer:

I read they should work well together

[16:06:24]

mick_laptop:

GreyFoxx: a widget probably has not done a calculateScreenArea(). Will redraw the whole screen (inefficient!)

[16:06:25]

stuarta:

YMMV

[16:06:31]

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[16:06:33]

mick_laptop:

that is the rest of the message

[16:06:37]

mick_laptop:

Hoxzer: they lied

[16:06:39]

justinh:

mick_laptop: the theme is missing an image or something. not to worry

[16:06:56]

mick_laptop:

just like the wiki docs on getting the ATI remote wonder plus to work :-P (all lies)

[16:07:14]

mick_laptop:

justinh: ah ok

[16:07:18]

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[16:07:24]

mick_laptop:

i wonder why this isn't working though

[16:07:38]

mick_laptop:

seems like much of mythtv works while the rest is a hack to get it running

[16:07:38]

iamlindoro_:

lies, once again, that I'm sure you corrected once you found the solution?

[16:07:52]

mick_laptop:

lmao – hi iamlindoro:D

[16:07:56]

mick_laptop:

we missed you

[16:07:58]

justinh:

I've never got mame to jive in linux

[16:07:58]

mick_laptop:

:)

[16:08:17]

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[16:08:21]

** iamlindoro_ goes to check the edit history on the ATI Remote Wonder article **

[16:08:28]

mick_laptop:

not to worry though – i hope to contribute to get some of this stuff working better :D

[16:09:29]

iamlindoro_:

Myth can all "just work," but you have to build it with the right hardware-- hackery is only necessary when you use "Absalom's Homebrew CPU and IR receiver"

[16:09:42]

justinh:

I hope to help make some parts of mythtv suck less :)

[16:10:25]

justinh:

only the parts I care about though. not arsed about recipes & youtube plugins :P

[16:10:30]

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[16:10:45]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, Heh, you *really* hate that guy's recipe plugin

[16:11:27]

directhex|work:

justinh, consider a frontend in the kitchen. recipes are easier to work with than pausing cookery shows!

[16:12:16]

justinh:

crazy talk

[16:12:22]

justinh:

computers in the kitchen. ffs

[16:13:10]

directhex|work:

the in-laws have a small widescreen freview/dvd combo thing in the kitchen

[16:13:50]

justinh:

mix flour & stuff in bowl with hands, clean hands, press buttons, clean hands mix flour & crap again. clean hands..

[16:14:00]

directhex|work:

yes!

[16:14:19]

iamlindoro_:

I think justinh makes all his meals in a bread machine... and may have slight OCD re: clean hands

[16:14:21]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[16:14:49]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: I have this obsession with not giving anybody in my house the runs

[16:15:04]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, amusingly you chose not to clean hands before step 1 :)

[16:15:29]

justinh:

step 0 was wipe arse. I was making a cake for LRL

[16:15:36]

iamlindoro_:

hahaha

[16:15:42]

mick_laptop:

iamlindoro_ or you go to a store and you buy a bunch of things — like an ATI remote and you hope to use it in linux :)

[16:15:57]

mick_laptop:

anyone know who Gregfleury is?

[16:16:00]

stuarta:

haha

[16:16:15]

iamlindoro_:

mick_laptop, Why in God's name would one go to the store and buy things without first determining how much of a hassle they'd be to get working?

[16:16:16]

stuarta:

isn't he the guy with flour on his hands

[16:16:46]

mick_laptop:

iamlindoro_ directions on patching a kernel aren't hard to follow

[16:17:20]

iamlindoro_:

mmmmmkay, 'cause that answered the question

[16:17:41]

mick_laptop:

yes, if a workaround is posted and someoen said "yes, i got it working"

[16:17:46]

mick_laptop:

then i believe it

[16:17:54]

iamlindoro_:

ah, the fatal flaw

[16:17:55]

mick_laptop:

like the other remote that i have

[16:18:00]

mick_laptop:

from ati

[16:18:26]

mick_laptop:

which has a kernel module that is already there

[16:18:31]

mick_laptop:

which also didn't work for me

[16:19:00]

mick_laptop:

it would (and i'm not kidding) be easier for me to write my own remote driver than to get one of these atis to work

[16:19:37]

mick_laptop:

stuarta: i asked since he said "i copied this info from somewhere online" in that wiki article

[16:19:45]

mick_laptop:

the one that i'm talking about

[16:19:54]

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[16:19:55]

mick_laptop:

iamlindoro i did just add a message btw :-P

[16:19:58]

stuarta:

hah

[16:20:49]

mick_laptop:

goes to show that if someone writes something online, it can spread and easily become "fact" w/o anyone verifying it

[16:20:53]

mick_laptop:

sad, but true

[16:20:59]

justinh:

not bad, only two hate emails today

[16:21:07]

mick_laptop:

lol

[16:21:08]

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[16:21:20]

mick_laptop:

your popularity is decreasing justinh ;)

[16:21:52]

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[16:22:01]

justinh:

mick_laptop: about furgin time

[16:22:53]

justinh:

nice to be finally moving on

[16:25:56]

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[16:33:51]

Anduin:

robbins61: No, but they seem to have stopped blocking it for now.

[16:34:23]

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[16:35:13]

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[16:36:15]

Tokayla:

anyone here familiar with ubuntu?

[16:36:32]

Led-Hed:

Tokayla, somewhat. Whats your question?

[16:37:00]

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[16:37:01]

Tokayla:

i installed lvm2 .. and it all works.. but every time i boot i have to do .. modprobe dm-mod and partprobe to be able to mount the lvm partions..

[16:37:01]

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[16:37:03]

Tokayla:

anyway around that?

[16:37:40]

Led-Hed:

look in /etc/modules

[16:38:05]

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[16:39:49]

Tokayla:

oo thanks

[16:39:51]

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[16:39:53]

Tokayla:

what about partprobe?

[16:39:56]

Tokayla:

or is it now not needed

[16:41:01]

Led-Hed:

Tokayla, also look at /etc/modutils

[16:41:24]

Led-Hed:

I'm not sure what partorobe is.

[16:41:32]

Led-Hed:

is it a command?

[16:41:34]

Tokayla:

yeah

[16:41:39]

Led-Hed:

err, executable

[16:41:59]

Tokayla:

i think it refreshes the devices in /dev/

[16:42:06]

Led-Hed:

try /etc/rc.local

[16:42:35]

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[16:42:38]

Tokayla:

partprobe is probably run at boot anyway.. it should be okay as long as dm-mod is loaded at boot

[16:42:40]

Tokayla:

maybe

[16:43:16]

Led-Hed:

Tokayla, I'm new to Ubuntu also. I'm more familiar with RH based distros

[16:43:28]

Led-Hed:

have you tried the #ubuntu channel?

[16:43:35]

Tokayla:

pretty useless there >_>

[16:43:39]

Led-Hed:

ahh

[16:43:45]

Tokayla:

ill work it out somehow

[16:44:07]

Tokayla:

i used to use fedora quite a bit.. but now ive moved over to ubuntu server with xfce

[16:44:27]

Led-Hed:

to my knowledge Ubuntu's installer supports LVM partitioning. so you would think that it would load the necessary modules at boot time

[16:44:29]

Tokayla:

it just seems to play nicer

[16:45:04]

Led-Hed:

My backend is Ubuntu. Easier install, but it Fedora feels faster.

[16:45:36]

PatrickDK:

I install ubuntu onto lvm all the time, with the installer

[16:45:49]

Tokayla:

i find xfce + ubuntu faster.. but that might be beacuse im running it on a laptop with odd hardware and older machines

[16:46:19]

Tokayla:

im only using lvm to combine my storage drives .. not really fussed about the system disk

[16:46:29]

Led-Hed:

Ubuntu as an OS seems fine, but as a backend it just feels slugish

[16:47:10]

Led-Hed:

Tokayla, are your storage disks all the same size?

[16:47:13]

Tokayla:

erg i think i know whats wrong.. my modules file is empty

[16:47:17]

Tokayla:

yeah they are all 200gb ide's

[16:47:25]

Led-Hed:

Tokayla, just stripe them

[16:47:29]

Led-Hed:

mdadm

[16:47:32]

Tokayla:

i did

[16:48:03]

Led-Hed:

why LVM them if you already have them striped then?

[16:48:04]

Tokayla:

i moved over to lvm beacuse all the disk have been online for 3 years and its 7 disk ide with two drives per channel

[16:48:10]

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[16:48:42]

Led-Hed:

I guess I dont understand LVM very well

[16:48:58]

Tokayla:

the disk have a tendancy to drop off the controller and come straight back.. which screws raid 5 over

[16:49:11]

Led-Hed:

ahh

[16:49:16]

Led-Hed:

that makes sense

[16:49:22]

Tokayla:

with non-striped lvm i can keep my one big disk without risking all the data at once

[16:49:48]

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[16:50:03]

Led-Hed:

ya, stripe does increase your chances of data loss

[16:50:23]

PatrickDK:

I thought lvm spanned across multible disks was just as bad

[16:50:34]

Led-Hed:

shouldnt be.

[16:50:41]

Tokayla:

it doesn't seem to bad.. if i unplug a few disks lvm doesn't even notice

[16:50:47]

Led-Hed:

If you loose 1 disk then only the data on that disk is lost

[16:50:50]

Tokayla:

just renders the files on those disks unreadable

[16:50:57]

Tokayla:

untill you plug them back in

[16:51:12]

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[16:52:27]

PatrickDK:

hmm, maybe that was an lvm1 issue, and not lvm2

[16:52:59]

Tokayla:

my etc/modules is empty :|

[16:58:06]

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[17:00:42]

directhex|bsp:

so?

[17:01:18]

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[17:02:26]

Tokayla:

there were things in it before >_<

[17:02:28]

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[17:28:33]

mick_laptop:

is there a way to "minimize" mythtv?

[17:28:42]

mick_laptop:

i'm ripping a dvd – wanna do other things too :)

[17:29:16]

mick_laptop:

nm – figured it out

[17:29:21]

jams:

you could move it out of the way

[17:29:33]

stuarta:

rm works pretty well

[17:29:36]

mick_laptop:

in full sc reen mode?

[17:29:47]

stuarta:

cat /dev/null > mythtv.binary

[17:29:50]

mick_laptop:

i just did atl tab

[17:30:05]

mick_laptop:

alt*

[17:35:40]

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[17:41:44]

Ojg:

is it possible to make myhtv follow links in a folder for videos like if i make a folder and then make links to all my video folders in to it ?

[17:41:56]

GreyFoxx:

Yes

[17:42:06]

GreyFoxx:

mythvideo will do that

[17:42:34]

Ojg:

i tryied with symbolic links but it doesnt follow them

[17:43:15]

clever[rev]:

broken links or forgot to rescan?

[17:43:36]

Ojg:

i ran the video manager but ill try again

[17:44:34]

mick_laptop:

how can i jujst get all of my videos to play?

[17:44:44]

mick_laptop:

instead of doing one at a time

[17:45:30]

Dagmar:

Go into each of them in the video browser, and on the same screen where you set the thumbnail for the video, you can set which video should always play after that one

[17:45:39]

Dagmar:

Yes, it's just loads of fun.

[17:45:59]

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[17:46:03]

iamlindoro_:

or create a .pls file containing all the filenames and feed that to mplayer. Either way, yucky.

[17:47:24]

Ojg:

hmm worked now :S

[17:47:37]

mick_laptop:

ok, both of those answers suck :)

[17:47:41]

jackson:

xbmc had a cool 'stack' feature whcih would automatically play like named (sequentualy) files

[17:48:02]

Dagmar:

mick_laptop: You can always learn SQL and do it that way

[17:48:14]

mick_laptop:

i know SQL :-P

[17:48:28]

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[17:48:31]

mick_laptop:

been writing multitier apps for over 10 yrs :-P

[17:48:51]

mick_laptop:

still a bad answer

[17:48:56]

mick_laptop:

not very wife friendly

[17:49:15]

iamlindoro_:

so fiiiiiiiiiiix iiiiiiiiiiiiit

[17:49:15]

mick_laptop:

there should be an option to playall

[17:49:30]

mick_laptop:

sigh

[17:49:51]

Dagmar:

So code one

[17:50:12]

Dagmar:

Not too many people want to cue up 15 movies to play one after the other, and that's the majority use-case for MythVideo at the moment.

[17:50:34]

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[17:50:42]

mick_laptop:

noone watches Music videos?

[17:50:48]

directhex:

nope!

[17:50:50]

jblack:

Actually, there's good uses for that.

[17:50:51]

jackson:

mtv's dead

[17:50:52]

Dagmar:

Watch them, yes. _Have_ them, no.

[17:50:59]

directhex:

mythvideo sucks for anything other than movies

[17:51:08]

Dagmar:

We've got _channels_ with videos on them for that

[17:51:11]

iamlindoro_:

Heh, music on MTV... what will they think of next

[17:51:26]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: I hear they're going to start MTV6 to show videos on soon. :)

[17:51:32]

jblack:

My kid isn't incredibly big on TV, but when she watches, she watches things like 4 or 5 airbenders (it's a cartoon) or malcolms at a time.

[17:52:27]

GreyFoxx:

airbenders?? You mean Avatar ? :)

[17:52:30]

jblack:

Yup.

[17:52:39]

Dagmar:

That japanese stuff will warp 'em.

[17:52:40]

GreyFoxx:

<<-- Loves Avatar. My daughter and I both watch it heh

[17:52:52]

mick_laptop:

how do i tell it to go back and look for missing video info?

[17:52:54]

Dagmar:

Sooner or later, there's _always_ a tentacle involved.

[17:53:01]

mick_laptop:

?

[17:53:05]

jblack:

She likes to bake sometimes, and the TV keeps her company. Of course, when she's baking and such, I yell at her for getting flour on the computer.

[17:53:05]

directhex:

i think the show is called "avatar the last airbender" or "avatar the legend of aaaaaaaaaaaaang" depending on where you live

[17:53:08]

directhex:

Dagmar, only one?

[17:53:14]

GreyFoxx:

mick_laptop: What do you mean, missing info ?

[17:53:19]

Dagmar:

directhex: When we're lucky

[17:53:23]

directhex:

Dagmar, the overfiend had, like twenty of them, they crashed through walls, and sucked things in!

[17:53:37]

mick_laptop:

well – imdb.pl was broken in what i was using — got the latest from trunk

[17:53:49]

directhex:

like magnetic AND absorbant mile-long tentacles of doom

[17:53:52]

mick_laptop:

so i have a few videos with missing thumbnails etc

[17:54:13]

jblack:

anyways, she's a serial watcher... whether it's air-boy, or dead like me, or serenity...

[17:54:16]

iamlindoro_:

#mythtv-users is awesome. It's a cycle of a) someone comes in. Day one. They ask questions and behave humbly and get mythtv installed. b) They get MythTV half-installed, but still broken, and proceed to tell you how broke-ass it is. c) This is MythTV's fault. I am a coder extraordinaire. I could code MythTV to do this and suck my wang at the same time. d) No. No, I'm too busy for that. I make $100 an hour to do that. e) Person disa

[17:54:16]

iamlindoro_:

ppears.

[17:54:45]

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[17:55:00]

directhex:

iamlindoro, you missed f) discussion of prehensile cocks

[17:55:03]

GreyFoxx:

mikeones: I don't know if the trunk and 0.290* versions are compatible

[17:55:14]

GreyFoxx:

mick_laptop: I don't know if the trunk and 0.290* versions are compatible

[17:55:17]

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[17:55:20]

GreyFoxx:

bah 0.20*

[17:55:22]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, I'd be satisfied if we could just jump from a to d without the intermediate stuff

[17:55:41]

GreyFoxx:

mick_laptop: But you would go into video manager and tell it to do a imdb search again

[17:55:52]

mick_laptop:

ah ok

[17:55:55]

GreyFoxx:

though personally I find it MUCH more convienient to ue the mythweb mythvideo interface

[17:55:56]

directhex:

GreyFoxx, did you hear? sony added "upnp security" to the ps3, so it doesn't do mpeg2 over the network anymore :/

[17:55:58]

GreyFoxx:

which lets me do it too

[17:56:06]

GreyFoxx:

directhex|bsp: ummm wtf ?

[17:56:10]

mick_laptop:

iamlindoro — are you catagorizing me in that?

[17:56:10]

iamlindoro_:

o_O

[17:56:32]

directhex:

GreyFoxx, good, isn't it. s' why my recordings don't work anymore. anti-myth firmware update

[17:56:43]

GreyFoxx:

directhex|bsp: If all they want is a MSMEdiaRegistrar authentication I have that in there

[17:56:48]

GreyFoxx:

It's just commended out for non xbox's

[17:56:54]

iamlindoro_:

remains to be seen. In all fairness, you haven't *left* yet.

[17:57:21]

GreyFoxx:

directhex|bsp: Do you have a link to a readme or notes on it ?

[17:57:33]

directhex:

http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs . . . _id=26112933

[17:57:41]

mick_laptop:

iamlindoro i contribute a lot to FOSS – and i plan to contribute to mythtv

[17:57:44]

xris:

GreyFoxx: yeah, kormoc did a good job with that.. mythvideo's manager is quite unwieldy because the imdb stuff doesn't live in the browser side of mythvideo — I just want to be able to hit "get info" while looking at a new file.

[17:57:59]

directhex:

http://community.eu.playstation.com/showthread.php?p=3774772

[17:58:34]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, that blows... And to think I was considering maybe looking at someday possibly if warranted getting a PS3.

[17:59:15]

mick_laptop:

GreyFoxx: how do i tell it to do it again? i am looking in the video manager

[17:59:16]

directhex:

apparently "mediatomb" upnp server works

[17:59:19]

GreyFoxx:

directhex|bsp: ok, the 2.10 mpegts issue I had heard of

[17:59:40]

directhex:

if you specify <protocolInfo extend="yes"/>

[18:00:07]

directhex:

to the source code!

[18:00:11]

GreyFoxx:

yeah

[18:00:19]

GreyFoxx:

if it's just xml we can fake it

[18:00:31]

mick_laptop:

found it! :)

[18:00:31]

GreyFoxx:

assuming they aren't doing some sort of on the fly transcoding

[18:02:18]

directhex:

configure.ac: AC_DEFINE([EXTEND_PROTOCOLINFO], [1], [This is required for Playstation 3 support, it adds certain tags to the protocolInfo attribute])

[18:02:27]

directhex:

time to track down the tags

[18:02:49]

GreyFoxx:

directhex|bsp: I'll grab the source, if it's just tags we can definately add that

[18:03:06]

mick_laptop:

if i need to enter a an IMDB # manually — from say: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259324/ — would tt0259324 be the #?

[18:03:26]

iamlindoro_:

minus the tt

[18:03:32]

mick_laptop:

ah – tahnks

[18:05:06]

mick_laptop:

is there a plugin for automatically adding mp3s? (from an mp3 cd) — or even playing from an mp3 cd?

[18:05:15]

mick_laptop:

MythMusic does CDs

[18:05:23]

mick_laptop:

(only from what i see)

[18:07:08]

directhex:

GreyFoxx, something about a content type...?

[18:07:26]

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[18:07:29]

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[18:07:50]

GreyFoxx:

A custom mime type maybe ?

[18:07:56]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v GreyFoxx

[18:08:08]

directhex:

GreyFoxx, looks like.

[18:08:09]

directhex:

Ref<Dictionary> mappings = config->getDictionaryOption(

[18:08:09]

directhex:

CFG_IMPORT_MAPPINGS_MIMETYPE_TO_CONTENTTYPE_LIST);

[18:08:13]

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[18:08:15]

directhex:

String content_type = mappings->get(item->getMimeType());

[18:08:26]

GreyFoxx:

I'm looking at it now

[18:09:24]

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[18:13:15]

Dibblah:

Heh. "although nobody would say that Myth Music is a bad music player,"...

[18:13:34]

Dibblah:

Err... Most people would say Mythmusic is a bad music player, I think he'll find.

[18:13:44]

Dibblah:

http://www.htpchouse.com/software/tv-playback

[18:16:44]

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[18:18:31]

amrit|zzz is now known as amrit|wrk

[18:23:28]

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[18:28:09]

Dagmar:

It plays music

[18:28:14]

Dagmar:

To that end, it works fine.

[18:28:16]

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[18:29:04]

Dagmar:

The playlist editor is awkward as hell, but I don't really think a WHOLE lot better can be accomplished with a remote control as the interface, so I'm not faulting it for that.

[18:29:33]

PatrickDK:

heh, being so nice

[18:29:51]

Dagmar:

If I could do better, that would be the one I would have tried it on

[18:30:09]

Dagmar:

I have interface design-fu

[18:30:25]

PatrickDK:

I am a programmer

[18:30:28]

Dagmar:

...but there's way worse problems elsewhere in the interfaces for the other parts, IMHO

[18:30:32]

PatrickDK:

so by definition, I can't do interfaces :)

[18:30:38]

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[18:31:02]

directhex:

Dagmar, the playlist editor is kinda okay. but mythmusic is so damned crashy :(

[18:31:02]

Dagmar:

Hmm... Maybe you'll be one of the first people I hunt down if I finally find time to do mockups of an interface for a combined recording playback selector and mythvideo then

[18:31:09]

Dagmar:

Weird. I've never had it crash.

[18:31:29]

Dagmar:

MythVideo and the recording playback selector should really be using the same interface

[18:31:30]

directhex:

Dagmar, i gave up using it. it was a segfaultfest

[18:31:36]

Dagmar:

Very odd

[18:31:49]

PatrickDK:

directhex, maybe some lib you had was buggy

[18:31:55]

Dagmar:

I'll start letting the thing run 12 hours a day on my off days again then

[18:32:04]

Dagmar:

What are your files mostsly?

[18:32:16]

Dagmar:

I've got mainly mp3's and a few ogg. No flac at all

[18:32:32]

directhex:

mostly vorbis

[18:32:59]

Dagmar:

Okay, so I'll encode a dozen more of my CDs as ogg and throw 'em in then

[18:33:28]

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[18:33:41]

directhex:

it's probably something in the visualization code. doesn't seem to crash if i disable them

[18:33:57]

Dagmar:

Ahhhh that might be another thing. I just leave it on Goom.

[18:33:57]

PatrickDK:

how do you turn off the visualization?

[18:34:09]

Dagmar:

You just take it out in the setup for the music player

[18:34:14]

PatrickDK:

on my computer running at 1024x768 it causes X to use 100% cpu

[18:34:33]

Dagmar:

That's because scribbling on the entire screen is a bit of work, and is not GL accellerated

[18:34:40]

PatrickDK:

ya

[18:34:46]

iamlindoro_:

--disable-libvisual

[18:34:49]

PatrickDK:

I downsized to 640x480 and it runs fine

[18:34:55]

PatrickDK:

just 80% cpu

[18:34:56]

directhex:

goom sucks

[18:35:04]

directhex:

i'd like to see some projectm action

[18:40:00]

Ojg:

hmm how do i fix so the aspect ratio doesnt get a image from the movie when i play hd?

[18:40:12]

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[18:40:27]

iamlindoro_:

That question hurts my brain

[18:40:33]

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[18:41:59]

Ojg:

hehe, well basicly when i play a hd movie the black spaces on the top and lower part of the tv gets fucked up

[18:43:27]

iamlindoro_:

Press M, go to the aspect ratio option, change it

[18:43:35]

iamlindoro_:

(while watching, that is)

[18:44:08]

** PatrickDK loads all his music into mythmusic to test **

[18:45:00]

sid3windr:

auch

[18:45:02]

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[18:45:10]

Ojg:

iamlindoro_ M is mute in mplayer =)

[18:45:19]

iamlindoro_:

ojg, mplayer isn't myth

[18:45:31]

iamlindoro_:

-monitoraspect 16:9

[18:46:01]

Ojg:

didnt think the internel player could handel it

[18:46:11]

directhex:

can you HANDLE IT? zomg!

[18:46:25]

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[18:46:35]

iamlindoro_:

"Thank you, Iamlindoro."

[18:46:40]

iamlindoro_:

*ahem*

[18:46:54]

PatrickDK:

hmm, this is taking forever to import my music

[18:47:07]

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[18:53:53]

rico4295:

hellos

[18:54:28]

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[18:55:56]

alexvd_:

all still having issue with frontend freezing on livetv on :30 minute intervals. I did the defrag and i thought it fixed it but alas no. Its strange sometimes it freezes sometimes it does not. It seems that if no activity happens than it will freeze. If activity occurs. ( channels changing or volume) it doesnt crash. About to rebuild from scratch again

[18:58:02]

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[19:00:06]

PatrickDK:

alexvd, you sure that isn't just an issue of your backend being too slow?

[19:00:42]

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[19:03:00]

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[19:03:57]

\matt\:

with a normal tv tuner card you're not able to get encrypted channels, do satellite tuner cards have the same problem?

[19:04:27]

iamlindoro_:

yes

[19:04:40]

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[19:05:00]

\matt\:

so if i have direct tv and get a satellite tuner card i would still not be able to get premium channels?

[19:05:08]

iamlindoro_:

Satellite cards in *some* areas (read: not the USA) can get a Hardware CAM from their provider, but thsoe are few and far between

[19:05:21]

alexvd_:

patrickDK: well it didnt happen from day 1. it only started happening

[19:05:23]

iamlindoro_:

\matt\, especially not with Direct TV, since that's not even DVB-S

[19:05:26]

alexvd_:

my backend is slow

[19:05:28]

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[19:05:43]

PatrickDK:

the issue (atleast with mine was)

[19:05:53]

PatrickDK:

the backend hadn't created the file for the new show that started

[19:05:54]

alexvd_:

its only 1ghz p3 with 256RDRAM

[19:06:05]

PatrickDK:

so when the frontend went to play it, it wasn't found

[19:06:09]

PatrickDK:

so frontend just stopped

[19:06:16]

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[19:06:28]

PatrickDK:

try just leaving the frontend playing a few mines behind real time

[19:06:33]

PatrickDK:

and see if it has the issue or not

[19:06:39]

alexvd_:

thats just it though its an ongoing show that is playing. It just freezed the picture. I can exit the show and go back in

[19:06:49]

PatrickDK:

my backend is a 850mhz with 768megs

[19:06:55]

lanuser:

Hello – is anyone using the lirc pvr150 blaster with any 2nd lirc driver, like serial?

[19:06:59]

alexvd_:

its not a crash where it locks the frontend

[19:07:01]

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[19:07:11]

alexvd_:

i am going to try your suggestion

[19:08:14]

alexvd_:

now i have to wait 20 minutes :)

[19:08:16]

iamlindoro_:

\matt\, That's correct... you can't use DVB-S cards with DirectTV or Dish. DTV is DBS, so another format for which there are no capture cards. Dish is DVB, but no Hardware CAM is available to decrypt any channels at all.

[19:08:45]

\matt\:

why do they have to make shit so hard =\

[19:08:53]

ma9mwah:

do any graphics card offer hardware accel for HD decoding on linux? i know nvidia has that purevideo stuff for windows, but im prety sure they haven't ported that yet

[19:09:00]

PatrickDK:

cause they don't want people getting free service :)

[19:09:32]

\matt\:

how did tivo do it?

[19:09:33]

\matt\:

=\

[19:09:47]

PatrickDK:

they didn't

[19:10:05]

PatrickDK:

directtv got together with tivo and made a directtv receive with a built in tivo

[19:10:13]

iamlindoro_:

^^^ Yup

[19:10:13]

PatrickDK:

save for dish

[19:10:20]

PatrickDK:

same

[19:10:29]

\matt\:

with normal cable also?

[19:10:44]

PatrickDK:

yes, with normal cable also

[19:10:49]

\matt\:

damn it ;[

[19:10:50]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, Only ability is to accelerate MPEG-2 with XvMc on Nvidia, VIA, and Intel graphics cards... no hardware accel of any other formats right now

[19:10:57]

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[19:11:01]

PatrickDK:

when was the last time you went to the store and got a digitaltv cable box?

[19:11:10]

PatrickDK:

or do you get the custom one from your cable company?

[19:11:47]

\matt\:

i thought the original tv didnt go though the cable co

[19:11:57]

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[19:11:59]

iamlindoro_:

huh?

[19:12:06]

iamlindoro_:

you mean tivo?

[19:12:07]

\matt\:

when tivo first came out

[19:12:12]

iamlindoro_:

Original tivo was analog only

[19:12:20]

\matt\:

ah

[19:12:21]

PatrickDK:

when tivo came out, it never supported digital

[19:12:29]

iamlindoro_:

ie, just like myth, it used an ir blaster and an output from a STB

[19:12:34]

PatrickDK:

how many digital tivo's have you seen at the store?

[19:12:36]

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[19:12:48]

\matt\:

i've never shopped for a tivo

[19:12:52]

PatrickDK:

well, try it

[19:12:55]

PatrickDK:

you won't find any

[19:13:07]

PatrickDK:

unless it says, for directtv only, or for dish network only

[19:13:48]

ma9mwah:

bit of a pitty that, I assume that ill need a reasonably ok dual box for viewing it HD on then

[19:14:38]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, If you intend to watch high-bitrate h.264, then yes, a decent Dual Core system is a good idea

[19:14:39]

rico4295:

I've installed mythtv and seems to run ok but where does it install to?

[19:15:02]

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[19:15:05]

fryfrog:

your hard drive, probably?

[19:15:15]

iamlindoro_:

fryfrog, hahahahaha, I was *totally* going to say that

[19:15:23]

fryfrog:

i win! :)

[19:15:26]

iamlindoro_:

fryfrog, I'm trying to moderate my sarcasm

[19:15:43]

rico4295:

ya know , i didn't think of that hehe

[19:15:54]

iamlindoro_:

the fucking swearing with sure as shit continue, though

[19:16:21]

alexvd_:

will a mac mini be able to handle .264 running linux?

[19:16:22]

iamlindoro_:

rico4295, it's all distro dependent, and if you compiled, it's dependent on what --prefix= you set

[19:16:26]

fryfrog:

rico4295: where it is depends on your distro, how you installed it, etc, etc

[19:16:48]

iamlindoro_:

alexvd_, The 2.0+ Ghz ones should handle pretty nicely

[19:17:07]

alexvd_:

wondering if the cheaper one will do

[19:17:24]

rico4295:

well i'm a ubuntu newb so...

[19:17:29]

iamlindoro_:

alexvd_, maybe downloads and some 720p, but real high-bitrate stuff at 1080 will be impossible

[19:17:30]

alexvd_:

i was wishing the apple tv would do it but that is just barely doing 1080

[19:18:11]

iamlindoro_:

rico4295, likely /usr/local (and associated subdirectories, /usr/loca/bin, /usr/local/share/mythtv, etc)

[19:18:19]

alexvd_:

yeah guess i will have to go for the 2.0 ghz

[19:18:54]

rico4295:

i've seen a couple mythtv folders but not much in them

[19:19:16]

iamlindoro_:

alexvd_, to give context, I rip all my blu-ray and hd-dvd disks into mythvideo... so we're talking about 4x the bitrate of stuff on bittorrent... I can *barely* make them play in multithreaded mplayer with all processing turned off on a 2.2 Ghz Core 2 Duo

[19:19:37]

fryfrog:

wow

[19:20:06]

alexvd_:

shoot so how am I going to play my blu-ray rips on it?

[19:20:37]

alexvd_:

i will want to use it for mythvideo as well

[19:21:07]

iamlindoro_:

alexvd_, If they're "your" blu-ray rips, then you will want a 2.2 Ghz machine or better... if they're stuff you downloaded, the odds of them being real 40 Mbit/s bitrate are infinitesimally slim.

[19:21:08]

fryfrog:

get a faster core 2 duo?

[19:21:51]

alexvd_:

have a 3.2 core duo on main box but that is a pig hoping to go smaller for the lcd on the wall thing

[19:22:56]

PatrickDK:

heh strange

[19:22:59]

alexvd_:

I guess I will have to get some long hdmi or dvi cables

[19:23:02]

PatrickDK:

the volume control in mythmusic doesn't work

[19:23:06]

PatrickDK:

but it works in livetv

[19:23:22]

armbar:

iamlindoro are you able to play the blue-ray rips from a frontend across you lan?

[19:23:41]

iamlindoro_:

armbar, sure, hd video isn't *that* big

[19:24:02]

iamlindoro_:

Think about it, bitrate is max 40 Mbit/second... no trouble at all for gigabit or even a decent 100 Mbit network

[19:24:04]

fryfrog:

didn't you just say it was 40Mbit/s?

[19:24:06]

fryfrog:

oh

[19:24:11]

fryfrog:

mbit :)

[19:24:29]

fryfrog:

but 2x on 100mbit would be cutting it close

[19:24:42]

armbar:

iamlindoro and do you run your frontend without fans? to keep it quiet?

[19:25:20]

iamlindoro_:

armbar, nope, It's in the media closet, all cabling runs through the walls, and video output through the ceiling to the projector.

[19:25:28]

iamlindoro_:

Probably pretty loud in the closet, though...

[19:25:34]

armbar:

i see

[19:25:44]

iamlindoro_:

silent in front of the TV.

[19:25:44]

alexvd_:

I do the same thing. Long cables.....

[19:25:54]

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[19:29:32]

iamlindoro_:

fryfrog, btw, it *is* Mbit rather than mbit

[19:29:32]

alexvd_:

You know what would be a great feature to build into mythtv or really one of the distros. The ability to have interactive setup that says if you have slaves or frontend to automatically configure and setup up mount points for music, video, pictures

[19:29:55]

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[19:31:09]

iamlindoro_:

alexvd_, I think (although have never used it) that the mythbuntu roles setup does a lot of that for you, if not all

[19:32:15]

alexvd_:

iamlindoro: using mythbuntu. Sets up slaves really nicely and roles for backend and frontend only. However if you want to setup centralized video it doesnt do it

[19:32:39]

fryfrog:

right, i saw "40Mbit" and thought "40Mbyte" :)

[19:32:59]

XLV:

iamlindoro, you compress them any, the bluray rips?

[19:33:12]

XLV:

lower bitrate i mean?

[19:33:35]

iamlindoro_:

XLV, nope

[19:33:39]

iamlindoro_:

fryfrog, ah, ok, I gotcha

[19:34:32]

alexvd_:

patrickDK: So your suggestion to run livetv a few minutes behind seemed to keep the frontend from freezing at 30 minutes. So what does that mean? The backend has very low memory only 256 and uses swap alot I guess. So its a matter of memory on the backend causing the frontend to freeze on the slave?

[19:35:06]

iamlindoro_:

XLV, I had a mythvideo array crash a few months back, and decided that when I rebuilt my collection, I would just watch DVDs, and only true HD material would go in to MythVideo... I have 50ish HD-DVDs and Blu-ray movies, so it left me lots of space... I've pretty much stopped transcoding as the experience is monumentally better when watching.

[19:35:09]

PatrickDK:

it's just a matter of the backend being too slow

[19:35:16]

PatrickDK:

if that is a harddrive issue, memory issue, ...

[19:35:19]

PatrickDK:

is left to you :)

[19:35:38]

PatrickDK:

but you shouldn't be using swapo

[19:35:40]

PatrickDK:

that is bad

[19:36:24]

iamlindoro_:

I do still transcode HD Television to nice, 1 GB 720p h.264/AAC files, though. I leave the movies as is.

[19:36:38]

alexvd_:

Well the box only does recording. I have 5 tuners in it. The drives are only running at 66 I think and the memory is only 256. The strange part is that it only started happening recently

[19:36:42]

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[19:36:55]

alexvd_:

Drives are 7200 rpm

[19:37:43]

PatrickDK:

5 tuners recording to a single drive?

[19:37:51]

PatrickDK:

is it doing realtime commflag too?

[19:37:56]

PatrickDK:

or no commflag?

[19:37:57]

alexvd_:

Yeah I have done that.

[19:38:13]

alexvd_:

Commflagg gets done on the slave which is 3.2ghz dual core

[19:38:16]

PatrickDK:

so your using approx, 20megs per second on the drive

[19:38:27]

PatrickDK:

with random seeks thrown in

[19:38:32]

fryfrog:

iamlindoro_: what do you mean the experience is better? as in, uncompressed looks nicer? or it just saves so much time and energy?

[19:38:34]

PatrickDK:

I think you are totally maxing out the drive

[19:38:39]

PatrickDK:

and swap is just making is worse

[19:38:45]

iamlindoro_:

fryfrog, some of the latter, much more of the former

[19:38:56]

fryfrog:

ah

[19:39:19]

ma9mwah:

would myth make use of a quad core?

[19:39:24]

alexvd_:

Well ok hold sec. The livetv is run on the slave. It has its own drive.

[19:39:44]

alexvd_:

So I technically have 6 tuners.

[19:39:45]

iamlindoro_:

I just looks *rullah* good if you don't mess with it, and it's displaying to 106" so some things that might be unnoticed on a smaller screen are glaring at that size

[19:39:49]

PatrickDK:

but the livetv is being recorded from where? and stored to what drive?

[19:40:29]

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[19:40:29]

PatrickDK:

if livetv is being recorded and stored on the frontend machine

[19:40:33]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, Somewhat... myth itself (unless you're running SVN with multithreaded playback) isn't heavily multithreaded, but when you're spawning lots of commflagging, transcoding, etc., etc., then the multiple cores are extremely helpful

[19:40:35]

PatrickDK:

then your frontend is the one that is slow

[19:41:30]

mick_laptop:

anyone know how to get mythstream to work?

[19:41:42]

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[19:41:46]

alexvd_:

So I havent tweaked it totally but right now I have livetv being recorded mostly too the slave because that is the directv tuner. The backend also has two other happague captures doing connected to DTV but they do mostly recording. So some livetv gets done to the slave

[19:41:49]

xris:

does it even still work with mythtv?

[19:41:53]

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[19:42:12]

mick_laptop:

i downloaded it and unbzipped it / untarred it to /usr/share/mythtv

[19:42:15]

iamlindoro_:

xris, yeah, it still works... install instruction on the guy's site are pretty self explanatory, though

[19:42:17]

mick_laptop:

hoping it would :-P

[19:42:25]

iamlindoro_:

mick_laptop, you *do* have to compile and install it, ya know

[19:42:41]

alexvd_:

PatrickDK: I also watch LiveTV using the pchdtv tuners on the backend and I am guessing they get recorded to the backend

[19:42:58]

mick_laptop:

ah yes

[19:43:00]

mick_laptop:

:)

[19:43:00]

iamlindoro_:

http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~moongies/howto/index.html

[19:43:02]

mick_laptop:

oops

[19:43:03]

PatrickDK:

yep, that is even worse

[19:43:05]

mick_laptop:

http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~moongies/howto/index.html

[19:43:10]

mick_laptop:

i was there

[19:43:13]

ma9mwah:

is myth with multithreaded playback likely to make it to a release version/trunk is it just some messing about with the concept still

[19:43:18]

iamlindoro_:

soo..... do those things, then?

[19:43:29]

alexvd_:

PatrickDk: So probably best bet would be too upgrade memory on backend

[19:43:37]

PatrickDK:

defently

[19:43:42]

PatrickDK:

and you need faster drives probably

[19:43:46]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, should be in .21, I believe

[19:44:04]

jackson:

alexvd_, is your backend also your mysql host?

[19:44:14]

alexvd_:

jackson: yes

[19:44:27]

mick_laptop:

ok, so i need to get the source package for mythtv to get this to work

[19:45:00]

mick_laptop:

nm, apt-cache shows a package

[19:45:27]

mick_laptop:

hmmm, says it is the newest version

[19:45:34]

mick_laptop:

yet i don't see it

[19:45:36]

iamlindoro_:

I don't envy you trying to compile mythstream against packaged mythtv... this will end in tears

[19:45:44]

mick_laptop:

nono

[19:45:49]

alexvd_:

jackson: is this where you tell me to migrate the sql to another box? Kinda dont want to do more boxes. I have a small datacenter in my basement with all the boxes down thier. I do have dual xeon doing nothing but I dont want to turn it on. That room heats itself right now and its 20degrees right now

[19:45:52]

mick_laptop:

i see a premade package

[19:46:05]

mick_laptop:

and it is installed

[19:46:05]

jackson:

alexvd_, I was just askin a question :)

[19:46:10]

mick_laptop:

just not showing up

[19:46:32]

alexvd_:

Alright going to stop being cheap and buy some memory on ebay :)

[19:47:31]

ma9mwah:

cool, looks like its in already http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/changeset/15918 :)

[19:48:08]

iamlindoro_:

Likely it hasn't been hacked into your themes, but mythstream is an unsupported app, and any package would be a packaged version of an unsupported app and... well, as such, you won't get much help for it.

[19:48:36]

iamlindoro_:

Still, like I said, probably just hasn't been hacked into the themes you have

[19:49:54]

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[19:50:26]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, Note that was committed to trunk and not to .21-fixes

[19:50:45]

iamlindoro_:

(not that it's impossible that it has been, I just don't know)

[19:51:27]

ma9mwah:

good point, think i'll go look at the .21 branch code

[19:52:07]

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[19:52:08]

ARfdee:

hi

[19:52:51]

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[19:53:38]

ARfdee:

hi, anyone use compiz-fusion and mythtv?

[19:54:26]

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[19:55:10]

alexvd_:

Arfdee: I have them both running on this tablet yes

[19:55:39]

iamlindoro_:

ma9mwah, Looks like yes on that, btw

[19:56:15]

ma9mwah:

yeah, just found it in there now myself :

[19:56:17]

ma9mwah:

*:)

[19:58:38]

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[19:59:04]

ARfdee:

alexvd_: i have the problem that when i open mythtv it doesn't cover the screen, the top part

[19:59:27]

jackson:

enable the legacy fullscreen support in compiz configuration app.

[19:59:59]

jackson:

I think it's under the General section

[20:08:09]

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[20:08:30]

ARfdee:

jackson: i did

[20:08:35]

ARfdee:

it doesn't work half of the time

[20:08:54]

ARfdee:

or more like 80% of the time

[20:09:25]

jackson:

what x server and desktop env?

[20:09:30]

ARfdee:

nvidia

[20:09:32]

ARfdee:

gnome

[20:09:49]

jackson:

what xserver?

[20:09:53]

ARfdee:

xorg

[20:09:57]

ARfdee:

fedora 8

[20:10:04]

jackson:

do you know the version of the xserver?

[20:10:32]

ARfdee:

Build Date: 21 January 2008

[20:10:33]

ARfdee:

Build ID: xorg-x11-server 1.3.0.0–40.fc8

[20:11:05]

jackson:

but it works 20% of the time? :)

[20:14:35]

ARfdee:

actually more like 10%

[20:14:40]

ARfdee:

it works very rarely now

[20:16:01]

jackson:

what version of myth?

[20:17:08]

jackson:

I haven't had an issue using xorg-server 1.2 and myth (svn from last week) latest nvidia-drivers

[20:17:08]

ARfdee:

mythtv-frontend-0.20.2–172.fc8

[20:17:32]

ARfdee:

it always starts like one inch down

[20:17:46]

ARfdee:

i have it start on my second screen

[20:20:19]

ARfdee:

it starts below where the menu should be

[20:20:24]

jackson:

also what version of compiz-fusion? using compiz-0.6.2 and compiz-fusion-0.6.0 here.

[20:20:57]

ARfdee:

compiz-0.6.2–3.fc8

[20:21:02]

ARfdee:

compiz-fusion-0.6.0–12.fc8

[20:22:16]

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[20:30:57]

ARfdee:

jackson: ?

[20:32:19]

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[20:33:50]

iamlindoro_:

I'm 99% sure Compiz has several known issues with Myth

[20:33:52]

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[20:34:33]

iamlindoro_:

of which this is one

[20:34:43]

hume:

hi... i've got a problem: suddenly my myth turned quiet, no sound – probablu my kid did something witht he keyboard, but what??

[20:34:51]

hume:

is there a "mute" function somewhere?

[20:36:30]

iamlindoro_:

| or F9 I think

[20:36:49]

iamlindoro_:

That's while watching TV or using internal player

[20:37:23]

hume:

hrm...happens nothing with F9

[20:37:47]

iamlindoro_:

Then you probably aren't muted...

[20:37:52]

iamlindoro_:

or have changed keymappings

[20:38:12]

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[20:38:12]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v stuarta

[20:38:17]

hume:

no changed keymaps at least

[20:38:25]

** stuarta trouts another piece of shit website **

[20:39:17]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: what do i do?

[20:39:46]

hume:

iamlindoro: now... I changed program and another recording was with sound – but not the currently running show....??

[20:40:20]

hume:

is tehre a setting for recording without sound....?

[20:40:24]

iamlindoro_:

ARfdee, you don't use compiz if you don't want to the deal with the problem

[20:40:31]

iamlindoro_:

hume, no, there isn't

[20:40:46]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: i want to use compiz and i want to not deal with the problem

[20:40:49]

ARfdee:

apparently this is possible

[20:41:00]

iamlindoro_:

ARfdee, What are you basing that on?

[20:41:04]

hume:

iamlindoro: any idea how the sound could be off on the running show but not the recorded?

[20:41:17]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: the conversation that has been going on for 20 minutes?

[20:41:19]

ARfdee:

with jackson?

[20:41:51]

iamlindoro_:

ARfdee, just because it has worked for some doesn't mean it will work for all. Like I told you (and like you would know if you had searched the mailing lists) Compiz is a known problem with Myth.

[20:42:21]

iamlindoro_:

hume, I don't know... if you are using a framegrabber (something with an audio passthrough) I suppose it's possible the passthrough has been disconnected

[20:44:43]

iamlindoro_:

ARfdee, http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3109

[20:45:24]

iamlindoro_:

Closed as invalid as the deficiency is with Compiz

[20:46:16]

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[20:47:31]

ARfdee:

10 months ago

[20:47:31]

ARfdee:

Changed 10 months ago by iscy@… ¶

[20:47:31]

ARfdee:

I'm using beryl head & myth head and I'm not seeing this.

[20:47:31]

ARfdee:

Configuration issue perhaps?

[20:48:26]

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[20:49:18]

iamlindoro_:

So?

[20:49:30]

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[20:50:01]

ARfdee:

so so?

[20:50:11]

iamlindoro_:

Again, Not a mythtv issue, and a workaround is suggested for Compiz. Whether it works for you or not, it's still not Myth's problem. Complain in #ubuntu

[20:50:34]

iamlindoro_:

Once more, and for a third time, Myth and Compiz do not co-exist nicely.

[20:51:09]

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[20:51:11]

iamlindoro_:

If you want to prevent the issue, the *only* sure way to do so is not to use Compiz. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't make it not the answer

[20:51:46]

Cheavera:

I just copyd a grapper file to /usr/bin but mythtv cant find it. What should i do to make mythtv find the grabber file?

[20:52:32]

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[20:53:47]

iamlindoro_:

Cheavera, I think it also needs to be registered with XMLtv, http://eep.pommepause.com/install/xmltv.html

[20:54:00]

iamlindoro_:

(that may not be for your specific grabber, but just illustrating the idea)

[20:54:35]

iamlindoro_:

and, of course, you will need xmltv installed

[20:57:27]

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[20:57:36]

jackson:

ARfdee, if you can't get the workaround to work, you could try setting that panel to allow other applicatons to cover it.

[20:57:43]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: i think you don't like that the answer is not the answer

[20:58:02]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: and quit whiningyourself

[20:58:18]

ARfdee:

jackson: i don't have the panel on that screen, that's what is weird

[20:58:20]

justinh:

now now. if any whining is to be done around here let me be the person doing it. ffs

[20:58:38]

ARfdee:

the window itself just starts down

[20:58:39]

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[20:59:00]

iamlindoro_:

ARfdee, yes dear. I've linked you to the ticket that explains why it's a problem, explained that Compiz and Myth have known issues, and done it fairly patiently. In fact, I've done it several *times* very patiently. But now, you get the /ignore...

[20:59:06]

jackson:

ARfdee, then you might be experiencing a different issue than what the legacy fullscreen support addresses.

[20:59:23]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: thanks, i appreciate you putting me on ignore

[20:59:28]

ARfdee:

jackson: hmm

[20:59:30]

Dagmar:

Arfdee: He's right. You're wrong. Get over it.

[20:59:57]

Dagmar:

Regardless of what the Disney Corporation says, _wanting_ something doesn't make it real, unfortunately.

[21:00:19]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar: I'd wish myself home and in to a cold beer, meself ;)

[21:00:27]

ARfdee:

Dagmar: i'd suggest putting me on ignore as well, because you're assistance is just as useless as his

[21:00:34]

Dagmar:

I would have three women here, with various hair colors and states of undress.

[21:00:38]

Dagmar:

...and that's just for starters.

[21:00:44]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: repeat after me.. "there's NO place like home, there's NO place like home..."

[21:00:49]

|Torg|:

shutdown gnome, display it with geometry and no wm, easy.......

[21:01:07]

ARfdee:

jackson: so you think it may be something else?

[21:01:08]

Dagmar:

Arfdee: Well, your alternative of course, is just to continue pissing _everyone_ off so that no one in here helps you with anything ever again.

[21:01:10]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar, I only need one state of undress ;)

[21:01:13]

Dagmar:

I would really not recommend that option.

[21:01:20]

ARfdee:

Dagmar: just shut up if you're not going to offer anything

[21:01:23]

ARfdee:

jackson is at least helping

[21:01:28]

Dagmar:

iamlindoro: C'mon. Chrismas isn't nearly as fun when you don't have to unwrap things

[21:01:41]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar, true true. Ah, this is a MUCH nicer conversation

[21:01:42]

Dagmar:

Arfdee: It's not "just" a known bug, it's a technical limitation right now man.

[21:01:42]

iamlindoro_:

;)

[21:01:57]

Dagmar:

The only way it's going to do what your'e wanting is if a lot of code patching and refactoring happens.

[21:01:59]

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[21:02:01]

ARfdee:

Dagmar: why don't you and iamlindoro go off in a corner and discuss it among yourselves

[21:02:17]

justinh:

just a random guess but I'm figuting this is something to do with still not being able to bend mythtv around a cube

[21:02:20]

Dagmar:

This problem you have with reality--they have pills for it now.

[21:02:30]

justinh:

s/figuting/figuring

[21:02:55]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, it's not even worth your time figuring it out, TBH

[21:03:04]

justinh:

cos until mythtv can be bent around a cube & spun around, it just can't 'compete' :P

[21:03:04]

iamlindoro_:

that is, figuring out what his issue is

[21:03:11]

jackson:

hey felllas, it's workin correctly for my setup here so it can't be a hard and fast tech limitation as that bug report was from a year ago and lots had happened with compiz and compiz-fusion since then.

[21:03:14]

ARfdee:

iamlindoro: i thought you had put me on ignore?

[21:03:18]

Dagmar:

Now that I'm starting to mess with the stretch modes more, I think I have a fix for the "16:9 Stretch" doesn't work right thing.

[21:03:21]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: you're prolly right. I have enough issues of my own

[21:03:39]

Dagmar:

Hitting 'w' to page through stretch modes hits one that is _not_ in the on-screen menu. "Fill"

[21:03:59]

justinh:

Dagmar: hahaha. should be an easy enough fix

[21:04:05]

Dagmar:

I'mma just cheat and lob some debug prints in there to find what numbers are being used for Fill.

[21:04:06]

Dagmar:

hehe

[21:04:06]

Chutt:

Dagmar, there's two menus for that

[21:04:06]

ARfdee:

jackson: if i full screen a program on that second monitor, and then start mythtv

[21:04:23]

ARfdee:

err mythfrontend, it starts just below the menu

[21:04:24]

Dagmar:

Chutt: Well, there's a whole 'nother issue secondary to that

[21:04:44]

Dagmar:

Having the OSD have the same scaling applied to it as the video is FTL

[21:05:03]

jackson:

ARfdee, you using twinview also?

[21:05:08]

Dagmar:

For one, it _really_ breaks the marks on the cutlist editor with at least three themes, so I'm guessing it's not a theming problem.

[21:05:21]

Dagmar:

...and for the other it makes the OSD look really ugly in some modes.

[21:05:22]

justinh:

Dagmar: OSD scaling was tackled a way back IIRC

[21:05:36]

Dagmar:

justinh: Is that something that's been sorted in trunk now?

[21:05:39]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar, Have you tried Metallurgy-OSD w/ the OpenGL OSD render? It's super-sexy to have the OSD in HD regardless of the resolution of the material

[21:05:44]

justinh:

Dagmar: IIRC yeah it is

[21:05:51]

Dagmar:

Okay, awesome

[21:06:07]

ARfdee:

jackson: i believe so, i am using nvidia and two monitors as big desktop

[21:06:13]

justinh:

Dagmar: there might still be a weird issue with font scaling but it's easily worked around

[21:06:16]

Dagmar:

I was going to actually ask since there's GL code why the heck isn't the OSD just a GL surface in front of the video surface now

[21:06:37]

jackson:

ARfdee, that another difference in our setups, I'm using a single 22" 1680x1050 with 4 'viewports' (aka virtual desktops)

[21:06:41]

Dagmar:

justinh: Well, there shouldn't eb anything scaling could do to the fonts

[21:06:56]

directhex:

what is it with neecy whiny cunts on irc?

[21:07:00]

justinh:

Dagmar: yarrr, but that's nee good for people with flea-pee-aye-ay or pvr350

[21:07:07]

Dagmar:

SCrew them

[21:07:10]

directhex:

it's like all the twatfaces who mail justinh to bitch that he OWES them his themes

[21:07:23]

Dagmar:

They can use Mesa. :)

[21:07:26]

directhex:

DAMN YOU JUSTINH, MAKE ME THEMES THE WAY I WANT OR I FORCE-FEED YOU DICK

[21:07:30]

ARfdee:

jackson: http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comp . . . encp8.th.jpg

[21:07:34]

justinh:

directhex: I wouldn't say 'all' – it's probably just one retard

[21:07:39]

ARfdee:

jackson: http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=compizscreencp8.jpg

[21:07:47]

directhex:

justinh, there's one a day, more or less

[21:07:49]

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[21:08:00]

justinh:

and yeah if I wasn't such a selfish dick it wouldn't happen in the 1st place but that's not negotiable

[21:08:23]

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[21:08:35]

Dagmar:

Hmm... I guess this really means I should finish the svn puller code in my build engine

[21:09:14]

directhex:

i should cook dinner, but i had 6 hot cross buns when i got in from work

[21:09:19]

directhex:

cheez on toast, that's the key

[21:09:37]

justinh:

directhex: better n' me. I used to live on peanut butter on toast

[21:09:42]

Dagmar:

I should cook, but I have a microwave oven.

[21:09:51]

Knopit:

hey all — how would I cause the script I wrote "evrouter_start.sh" to be run at boot?

[21:09:52]

Dagmar:

Easier to simply apply heat through technology.

[21:10:14]

Dagmar:

Knopit: Look for something like rc.local in /etc/rc.d/ or /etc/init.d

[21:10:16]

iamlindoro_:

Knopit, add it to rc.local or to your init scripts

[21:10:21]

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[21:10:24]

justinh:

Knopit: depends on your distro, but rc.local is a common method

[21:10:41]

Dagmar:

Every distro has the mechanism, but they all have different names. Almost all involve the word "local"

[21:11:06]

Dagmar:

So anything you find living in /etc/rc.d/ or /etc/init.d with "local" in the filename is probably the thing to hit.

[21:11:12]

justinh:

at an extreme push you could use a session manager UI item to do it (eeew)

[21:11:22]

Dagmar:

That wouldn't do it on bootup tho

[21:11:24]

Knopit:

justinh: Dagmar: thanks — what if there is something already in those files?

[21:11:32]

|Torg|:

only RH and its ilk use local AFAIK, the only sysV part is rc and rc.d, limuns deviatin is init.d and should be in /etc

[21:11:36]

justinh:

Knopit: they're just lists of stuff to do

[21:11:39]

Dagmar:

Knopit: They're all just shell scripts. You just add the command to the end or something

[21:11:48]

Dagmar:

WITH ONE STIPULATION

[21:11:51]

directhex:

debian has no rc.local

[21:12:11]

|Torg|:

nor does Solaris

[21:12:13]

directhex:

ubuntu does, because much as it's technically a bad way of doing things, it's oh so very much easier than writing init scripts

[21:12:16]

Knopit:

I'm using knoppmyth, and it has a rc.local

[21:12:17]

iamlindoro_:

directhex, really? Weird (as there's one in ubuntu)... wonder if it'll take one if it's there

[21:12:22]

Dagmar:

The program you put in rc.local or whatever it's called MUST MUST MUST either immediately go to the background, or you must script it to go to background.

[21:12:34]

|Torg|:

ubuntu, from debian does not

[21:12:41]

Dagmar:

...because otherwise, your boot process will basically _stop right there_ and likely never let you log in again.,

[21:12:55]

iamlindoro_:

|Torg|, heh, *my* ubuntu sure does

[21:13:02]

directhex:

|Torg|, yeah, it does. debian and ubuntu don't share an init mechanism

[21:13:12]

ARfdee:

jackson: did you get that url?

[21:13:24]

Knopit:

So all that work I did with update-rc.d was for not?

[21:13:35]

Dagmar:

I've no idea what you did

[21:13:36]

jackson:

ARfdee, yeah, but I'm trying to finish something up here at the office.

[21:13:45]

|Torg|:

sorry, it does ( I only have one ubu box, the rest are Debian)

[21:13:59]

|Torg|:

still its easer to simply write a init script and put it under rc control

[21:14:13]

Knopit:

I thought all of the scripts in rc2–5 were run depending upon the run level.

[21:14:27]

ARfdee:

jackson: there are certain times that i've gotten it to do it on a regular basis

[21:14:39]

Dagmar:

Knopit: They are

[21:14:48]

|Torg|:

mostly rcX.d are symplings with SXX and KXX denoting start and stop to init.d

[21:15:03]

justinh:

bugger. none of the mp3 downloady services I can find have Jack N Chill – The Jack That House Built :(

[21:15:05]

Knopit:

Dagmar: not to worry about the rc#.d stuff — easy enough to undo

[21:15:33]

Dagmar:

Knopit: The elegant way to "kiosk" this is that most distros use runlevel 3 for the text console, and putting the machine in _either_ runlevel 5 or 4 will automatically start XDM/GDM/KDM and put the machine into "graphical" runlevel.

[21:15:40]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, Amazon seems to?

[21:15:56]

iamlindoro_:

(although maybe they restrict to just US users right now?)

[21:16:04]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: the 12" version?

[21:16:07]

iamlindoro_:

yup

[21:16:08]

iamlindoro_:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_dmusic/103- . . . ;x=0&y=0

[21:16:11]

Dagmar:

...so basically, you figure out if your distro uses 4 or 5 for the X-enabled console, and then you take the _other_ one and use it to run the commands that start the frontend

[21:16:13]

justinh:

bah USA only

[21:16:32]

directhex:

note: ubuntu and debian do NOT use particular runlevel for X

[21:16:35]

justinh:

aha! play.com have a new downloady service & it's drm free too

[21:16:53]

Dagmar:

So like, if you need to login to the thing to work on it, you can ssh into it, su to root, and do a `telinit 3` and *blam* it'll shut down X and the frontend and give you a nice text console

[21:17:12]

Dagmar:

directhex: They don't? Are you serious?

[21:17:15]

|Torg|:

just put it in a xinit script for a user and force login via initab that user

[21:17:20]

directhex:

note: ubuntu and debian use runlevel 2 for *everything*, there is no preconfigured use of runlevels for "x or not x"

[21:17:30]

Dagmar:

I would have thought debian would still be sticking to 3 for vesa console and 5 for X

[21:17:34]

justinh:

now then, if I convert my speakers into rubbish bins & replace the wires with wet string, will it sound as good through Itunes as it does in mplayer?

[21:17:43]

Dagmar:

Wow is that a lame use of SysV init

[21:17:56]

|Torg|:

runlevel N 2

[21:18:14]

directhex:

Dagmar, what's special about x? you might not have it installed. and why remove sysadmin control by mandating what all the runlevels can be used for?

[21:18:15]

Dagmar:

You don't have to force a login

[21:18:21]

Dagmar:

That's somewhat pointless.

[21:18:23]

|Torg|:

looks like unix, acts (well somewhat) like unix, but it aint unix

[21:18:48]

Dagmar:

directhex: Because basically, these are the modes that are commonly considered useful.

[21:19:09]

justinh:

wtf? last.fm have a free download! (?)

[21:19:25]

|Torg|:

Dagmar: I woul dus inittab only becase if you force shutdown X it will restart, and that it forces whatever is runing to be under a user you can fence off

[21:19:30]

Dagmar:

On a "unix" box you can generally know that runlevel 1 is for single user (definitely locks everyone out) mode with no networking, and runlevel 2 is maintenance mode

[21:19:34]

Dagmar:

This is handy when you're a consultant

[21:19:36]

|Torg|:

but there is more then one way to kiosk a linux box

[21:19:45]

Knopit:

Dagmar: I see many apps that appear to be called in rc5.d that are not running after boot. lirc. Of course, I have no need for lirc. So I wonder why it is there?

[21:19:46]

directhex:

Dagmar, why is x special, though? if all you want to do is run or not run a single service from init.d, why not just run or not run a single service from init.d?

[21:20:13]

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[21:20:13]

|Torg|:

and Dagmar you are confuising REAL sysV runleves with linux TRY to act like sysV

[21:20:16]

justinh:

how the hell do last.fm have freebie downloads of musics available and still be in business?

[21:20:17]

Dagmar:

Because you're not specifically running X. Generally you're starting the GUI login manager.

[21:20:38]

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[21:20:41]

directhex:

Dagmar, and what's special about it? why not have a runlevel for cups or not?

[21:20:47]

Dagmar:

The difference between X-console and text console is generally just whether it's spawning /bin/login, or XDM/GDM/KDM

[21:21:01]

siXy:

RL 3 = tui, RL 5 = gui isn't actually a unix thing. its just a bsd & gnu convention

[21:21:12]

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[21:21:14]

|Torg|:

its not having a runlevel for X or having a runlevel cor cups, its at what runlevel do they start

[21:21:18]

justinh:

hmm I think maybe this last.fm plugin thingy is going to be more worthwhile than I thought after all

[21:21:20]

Dagmar:

directhex: If you had a reason to administratively _not_ have the printer working at certain times, sure. Go right ahead.

[21:21:26]

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[21:21:40]

siXy:

in fact AIX uses RL 2 as default runlevel

[21:22:07]

Dagmar:

3–5 have just always been multi-user modes for awhile

[21:22:07]

Dagmar:

siXy: AIX is crap

[21:22:07]

directhex:

siXy, quiet, Dagmar's on a roll!

[21:22:07]

Dagmar:

I really, really, really loathe it

[21:22:19]

siXy:

directhex: hehe :)

[21:22:30]

|Torg|:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runlevel

[21:22:33]

justinh:

oh jesus. just wait til this becomes the new arch – http://www.andlinux.org/

[21:22:57]

directhex:

justinh, the stability of windows; the ease of use of linux

[21:23:09]

iamlindoro_:

Holy god.

[21:23:21]

|Torg|:

stability of windows!?!

[21:23:25]

Dagmar:

directhex: Basically, tehse things are for the admin to be able to change the behaviour of the machine quickly and cleanly

[21:23:27]

PatrickDK:

heh, people use wikipedia for their info?

[21:23:37]

|Torg|:

hell I can do that to my linux boxes, I think I hav a flaky drive ctroller somwhere

[21:23:39]

justinh:

iamlindoro_: some user on the forum was asking about how to get mythtv worky on that

[21:23:53]

|Torg|:

hmm how I do I make limux lock up when I put in a CD, oh I know install Windows

[21:23:57]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, Dear sweet Jesus no...

[21:24:05]

|Torg|:

stability my ass

[21:24:09]

Dagmar:

One reason to despise AIX... It's `killall` command.

[21:24:23]

Dagmar:

Never, ever assume you are dealing with GNU killall, which is not a lit stick of dynamite.

[21:24:31]

directhex:

Dagmar, but why is x special? you're advocating the reverse – rather than stick everything into one runlevel by default & leave the admin to fuck about subsequently, there's an arbitrary division between 3 and 5 (on SOME distributions of linux) based on a SINGLE service. why?

[21:24:40]

Dagmar:

If you run `killall` on AIX, it'll basically line up every process in the system, and shoot it dead.

[21:24:43]

directhex:

Dagmar, killall does that on most real unix

[21:24:52]

siXy:

PatrickDK: actually that particular wikitruth(tm) page is correct. although the author never heard of *bsd

[21:24:54]

Dagmar:

it is singly one of the most stupid command invocations ever

[21:24:54]

iamlindoro_:

justinh, then again, once he's *got* it running (guffaw) it'll be "Why cain't I run it with Compiz??"

[21:24:58]

directhex:

sysv release 3 & 4: 5 – halt the operating system, go to firmware

[21:25:08]

directhex:

solaris: 5 – shut down, power-off if hardware supports it

[21:25:16]

directhex:

hp-ux: 5 – user-defined

[21:25:35]

directhex:

gentoo: 5 – Full multi-user with display manager (Alias for runlevel 3)

[21:25:37]

Dagmar:

It's right up there with the VMS "CRASH" command, which _would_ actually crash a VAX. This was to take the "challenge" out of it for students and technicians.

[21:25:38]

siXy:

Dagmar: its GNU killall thats dangerous, not AIX. aix killall was there first, and does what it says on the tin.

[21:25:44]

directhex:

slackware: 5 – Not used/User definable

[21:25:51]

|Torg|:

soarlis 5 is power down, 6 is reboot

[21:25:58]

iamlindoro_:

Dagmar, hahaha, that's funny... I appreciate that kind of humor

[21:25:59]

Dagmar:

siXy: The problem being there's really no time you'd ever want to have it do what it does tho

[21:26:00]

siXy:

gnu killall gives linux users the idea that running killall on unix is clever. which it mostly isnt

[21:26:09]

directhex:

it's just suse & redhat that use 5 for x

[21:26:20]

directhex:

and derivatives, obviously

[21:26:30]

siXy:

Dagmar: its useful when executed as a user, just not as root

[21:26:31]

|Torg|:

and directhex I have yet to see a solaris box that dosnt shutdown at init 5

[21:26:39]

PatrickDK:

I personally only use runlevels 1,2,5

[21:26:39]

directhex:

|Torg|, remount /tmp ro

[21:26:42]

siXy:

because it ownly kills processes started by that user

[21:26:43]

Dagmar:

sixy: So why not the one sane uid check?

[21:26:46]

directhex:

|Torg|, that'll do it

[21:26:47]

PatrickDK:

and just use the init.d scripts to start/stop things

[21:27:06]

|Torg|:

uinit too :P

[21:27:06]

siXy:

unix philosophy has never been to protect users from themselves :)

[21:27:18]

Dagmar:

This would be a matter of self-preservation

[21:27:27]

Dagmar:

Linux doesn't allow you to rm /proc/kcore anymore

[21:27:36]

PatrickDK:

dagmar, that is no fun

[21:27:39]

Dagmar:

That used to be pretty spectacularly fatal

[21:27:42]

siXy:

people with root access on aix are assumed not be competant enough not to issue random commands to see what they do :)

[21:27:48]

Dagmar:

There was just no sane reason for it to do what it was doing.

[21:28:05]

|Torg|:

naa siXy thats what SMIT is for :P

[21:28:22]

siXy:

:)

[21:28:33]

Dagmar:

siXy: Even mechanics don't drive cars with a lot of sharp edges inside, man

[21:28:58]

|Torg|:

but then I have seen Oracle DBAs just go arround removing files, and then wonder why the Solaris box disnt stop them

[21:29:12]

Dagmar:

here's a nice joke some people will appreciate... "How many patches have been applied to the AIX machine?"

[21:29:19]

Dagmar:

The answer is "None."

[21:29:43]

Dagmar:

You'd be horrified to know how many times I've seen that

[21:30:01]

|Torg|:

waht Oracle DBAs thingint there unix admins?

[21:30:04]

siXy:

Dagmar: http://www.simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf :)

[21:31:25]

Dagmar:

I've seen it

[21:31:37]

|Torg|:

you should see what Oracle teaches them, raid5 is bad, here go thorw this shit in /etc/system, memory is cheap here use curors in your sql

[21:32:13]

PatrickDK:

cursors are good

[21:32:33]

PatrickDK:

but only use them when you need to, or it's a waiste

[21:32:36]

|Torg|:

sure if you have temp space to chew up like its going out of style

[21:32:42]

iamlindoro_:

"Certifications" scare me. It's like, "Hey, gimme some money and I'll give you this paper. It's like a college degree, but you can get it in a week."

[21:32:55]

Dagmar:

sixy: Keep in mind that a whole crapton of things in that book are problems which have basically been solved with most Linux distros

[21:33:24]

Dagmar:

Hence, why GNU killall doesn't let you destroy your whole everything, and shadow utils, and so forth

[21:33:42]

|Torg|:

you can "tune" most "slow" Oracle boxes by about 50% if you simply rewite there stupid SQL statemnts

[21:33:46]

PatrickDK:

I have never taken a Certification cause of after studing for some of them, I found the questions just plain stupid

[21:33:52]

Dagmar:

The whole section ranting about security in that book is basically, wrong from the get go.

[21:34:01]

|Torg|:

Dagmar: kill -9 -1....go on Ill wait for ya

[21:34:32]

Dagmar:

I like to believe that in my world there are more ducks and kittens and the "The Problem with SUID" section is just a joke.

[21:34:50]

Dagmar:

Torg: Yeah, but you see, that's something _very_ specific

[21:34:58]

siXy:

Dagmar: well it is kinda old :)

[21:35:07]

Dagmar:

You can somewhat guage the intent of the user based on the granularity of the invocation

[21:35:25]

siXy:

and personally i *hate* gnu. it encourages users to be lazy/stupid

[21:35:36]

Dagmar:

Sixy: Well, I mean the whole time they're bitching about passwd being suid root, and there's no reason it ever had to be suid _root_

[21:35:37]

siXy:

eg passwd now has a --stdin ffs

[21:35:42]

justinh:

siXy: but.. they don't need any encouragement

[21:35:47]

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[21:35:48]

Dagmar:

It's just a blindingly obvious thing to overlook

[21:36:03]

siXy:

justinh: heh :)

[21:36:12]

Dagmar:

So, this isn't a problem with suid, this is just a problem of _that_ implementation

[21:36:13]

directhex:

siXy, i like gnu. unix is pain because it's genuinely painful by default. things like "ed" as standard editor

[21:36:31]

Dagmar:

Oh F**k a bunch of ed

[21:36:34]

PatrickDK:

ed? are you insane, shouldn't it be vi

[21:36:48]

Dagmar:

Even the commodore 64 had a better editor than ed

[21:36:50]

justinh:

heh on my 1st day in a new job I was given a choice. ed or vi. I didn't know so asked to try both. I chose vi

[21:36:53]

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[21:37:02]

|Torg|:

ed is standard unix, converted to vi on SysV, we now use vim on most distros

[21:37:02]

Dagmar:

Unless your machine GLOWS from it's vacuum tubes, you should not be using ed.

[21:37:27]

Dagmar:

You just might as well use cat

[21:37:30]

|Torg|:

and it works fine, there is noting wring it with (well other then I use :wq to exit any text editor now)

[21:37:37]

directhex:

PatrickDK, standard editor on solaris, unless you override it, is ed

[21:37:44]

PatrickDK:

heh

[21:37:48]

Dagmar:

It will make you want to kill yourself.

[21:37:48]

directhex:

e.g. run "crontab -e", get ed

[21:37:48]

PatrickDK:

I hate switching distros

[21:38:01]

siXy:

directhex: yeah ed is fun. i love the typical response when telling someone to use ed

[21:38:05]

PatrickDK:

have to get used to ones that only have vi install, or pico, or nano,

[21:38:07]

PatrickDK:

just annoying

[21:38:19]

|Torg|:

yes exeopct laszy ass users is why ther eis shot like pico as the dfault editor, want to talk about annoying

[21:38:19]

Dagmar:

At least pico lets you back up a line easily

[21:38:31]

directhex:

it's not that you *can't* use something else, it's that doing so is part of the "stupid by default" design of most old-school unix

[21:38:32]

|Torg|:

yyp

[21:38:50]

PatrickDK:

I switch off between vi and joe

[21:38:55]

Dagmar:

It has shown a horrifying tendency in the past to insert NULs into files for no discernable reason, but at least it doesn't make you cry

[21:38:56]

directhex:

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