| Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 00:00 UTC |
| [00:00:01] |
Dagmar: |
Jesus no, they've got an ugly tape robot here |
| [00:00:08] |
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| [00:00:09] |
Dagmar: |
I could run that station off my laptop tho |
| [00:00:21] |
Agiofws: |
tape robot here ? |
| [00:00:22] |
Dagmar: |
...and just put in a jacuzzi where the tape robot used to be |
| [00:00:39] |
Agiofws: |
they still use TAPE ? |
| [00:00:43] |
Agiofws: |
cassetes ? |
| [00:00:45] |
Agiofws: |
lol |
| [00:00:50] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: The community access station here, the last time I was there, had a big ugly tape robot switching aroudn tapes at the appropriate times |
| [00:00:55] |
Dagmar: |
They may still be using it |
| [00:00:57] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: most OTA stations could be run via a WRT54G these days, with everything back hauled to the parent company. |
| [00:01:09] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: VLC has scheduling possibilities, too: http://wiki.videolan.org/Documentation:Streaming_HowTo/VLM |
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| [00:01:28] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: I know exactly what problems you're trying to solve. Having a computer play video items at given times is really easy |
| [00:01:41] |
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| [00:01:45] |
Dagmar: |
Yeah, using VLC and streaming the files to it would work pretty well too |
| [00:01:58] |
Dagmar: |
...but you'd still need something to trigger when to stream the files at the one player |
| [00:02:04] |
Dagmar: |
...which would be crond |
| [00:02:16] |
Dagmar: |
I jus didnt' want to mention that level of complexity right off the bat |
| [00:02:21] |
Agiofws: |
you are talking about server and clinet why ? |
| [00:02:35] |
Dagmar: |
Big, finely honed programs should always start as simplified versions of what you want ot actually happen |
| [00:02:40] |
Agiofws: |
don; i need only client ? |
| [00:02:49] |
Agiofws: |
any way |
| [00:02:50] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: and that doesn't take into account that mplayer can sometimes spawn with out focus. |
| [00:02:50] |
Dagmar: |
You don't try to solve one massive problem, ever. |
| [00:03:02] |
Agiofws: |
vlc does not give me start times in play lists |
| [00:03:05] |
Dagmar: |
You break the problem down into little modular tasks, and you solve each of THOSE problems. |
| [00:03:12] |
Agiofws: |
but thats not what i need i think |
| [00:03:21] |
Dagmar: |
It's not VLC's responsibility to give you start times becuase it's just a bloody player, not a scheduler |
| [00:03:44] |
Dagmar: |
JackEStorm: Thankfully, if it's the only thing on the display, focus can take a flying leap |
| [00:04:24] |
Dagmar: |
With VLC you could eliminate some of the issues of mplayer occasionally having two instances running at once momentarily by trying to use VLC to stream to another copy of VLC that plays continuously |
| [00:04:45] |
Agiofws: |
stream the files from vlc server to a vlc clinet and then use a pci digital analog card to take itto the air ? |
| [00:04:59] |
Dagmar: |
...but that would be considerably more arcane and it would be better to have a *reliable* way of queuing programs on time working *first* so you dont pull your hair out trying to figure out which thing broke if something goes wrong |
| [00:05:08] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: yes |
| [00:05:08] |
Agiofws: |
hmm hats seems easier i think |
| [00:05:11] |
NightMonkey: |
Dagmar: VLC does do scheduling, via VLM. |
| [00:05:48] |
Dagmar: |
For me, it would be easier to write the initial stuff in perl than it would be to wade through the VLC man page |
| [00:06:10] |
Agiofws: |
NightMonkey, you ean one clinet to scedule a play list ? |
| [00:06:23] |
Dagmar: |
Or, be sneaky and open a SourceForge project |
| [00:06:23] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: Please rephrase? |
| [00:07:00] |
Agiofws: |
NightMonkey, you mean one client to schedule a play list o multiple instances of clinets starting VIA crontab ? |
| [00:07:18] |
Dagmar: |
He's really fixated on this multiple clients thing isn't he? |
| [00:07:27] |
Agiofws: |
show schedule displays a summary of schedule states. ? |
| [00:07:34] |
Agiofws: |
Dagmar, i am i think |
| [00:07:36] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: No crontab. Check out the options on the page I linked to. One instance. |
| [00:07:49] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: if it was me, I'd just use a transport player, and use/write a transport queuer for the backend and be done with it. |
| [00:08:04] |
Dagmar: |
NightMonkey: And if VLC should crash in the middle of the night? |
| [00:08:09] |
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| [00:08:18] |
JackEStorm: |
well in this case a program stream and not transport |
| [00:08:22] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: You can update the schedule via an HTTP interface or telnet. Unfortunately, no direct command line interface to change schedules, however. |
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| [00:08:32] |
Dagmar: |
Separate, independent tasks will *much* more easily recover from a single failure event |
| [00:09:10] |
NightMonkey: |
Dagmar: Sure, that's a problem. Could it not be solved via a simple "while true" loop, or, for heavy hitting, monit? |
| [00:09:15] |
Agiofws: |
date (year)/(month)/(day)-(hour):(minutes):(seconds)|now: |
| [00:09:21] |
Dagmar: |
I kinda think "reliability" and "fault tolerance" should really figure into the design for sometihng that's realtime dependenct |
| [00:09:43] |
Dagmar: |
NightMonkey: A spinlock? NO. |
| [00:10:02] |
Dagmar: |
Only b*tch*s write spinlocks. |
| [00:10:28] |
Agiofws: |
setup my_media input my_video.mpeg input my_other_movie.mpeg |
| [00:10:36] |
Agiofws: |
setup my_media output #standard{mux=ts,access=udp,dst=239.255.1.1,sap,name="My Media"} |
| [00:10:44] |
Agiofws: |
setup my_sched date 2012/12/12–12:12:12 |
| [00:10:44] |
Agiofws: |
setup my_sched append control my_media play |
| [00:11:24] |
Dagmar: |
Even if the operation is while (true) { task } if task should ever jam, you simply have the equivalent of a runaway spinlock |
| [00:11:35] |
Agiofws: |
so what would that do considering he schedule ? |
| [00:12:03] |
NightMonkey: |
Dagmar: Whatever. Launch VLC in a shell wrapper: "while true; do vlc --intf telnet; done". Not a spinlock, per se. |
| [00:12:24] |
Agiofws: |
do vlc --intf telnet what would that do ? |
| [00:12:30] |
Agiofws: |
update something |
| [00:12:41] |
Agiofws: |
i could have the server and the clinets on the same BOX |
| [00:12:43] |
Dagmar: |
Maybe keep something monitoring the displaying VLC process, but no other form of while (true) should be involved in that |
| [00:12:46] |
Agiofws: |
i could have the server and the clinet on the same BOX |
| [00:13:15] |
Dagmar: |
crond is one of the most stable things ever because it's so simple |
| [00:13:28] |
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| [00:13:29] |
Dagmar: |
Thousands of admins would be howling if crond ever failed them |
| [00:13:32] |
Dagmar: |
Daily. |
| [00:13:52] |
Dagmar: |
Logs would not get rotated, transaction batches would not be run... |
| [00:13:57] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: not to mention it's one of the oldest too. |
| [00:14:06] |
Dagmar: |
So for scheduling events to take place on a computer at given times, crond wins |
| [00:14:32] |
Agiofws: |
Dagmar, i am goingto try outthis solution its just that people there do not know LINUX |
| [00:14:39] |
Agiofws: |
and do not wantto learn new thgings |
| [00:14:50] |
Dagmar: |
Don't piss me off or I'll just write a TV station and you can explain to everyone why Dropline was another two months behind |
| [00:14:52] |
Agiofws: |
and are using a ONE instance program |
| [00:15:06] |
JackEStorm: |
Agiofws: well cron is not linux, it's UNIX, it's old, older than me |
| [00:15:11] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: This is why you give them a stupid-simple web interface to use |
| [00:15:24] |
Agiofws: |
and if a hard drive a USB one goes down the even if one file is corrupted the whole program halts |
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| [00:15:47] |
Agiofws: |
webintreface ? to handel cron ? |
| [00:15:51] |
Agiofws: |
webintreface ? to handle cron ? |
| [00:16:10] |
Dagmar: |
Yes. |
| [00:16:24] |
Dagmar: |
Find a college student and exploit them |
| [00:16:32] |
Dagmar: |
Any code monkey can write a CGI to do that |
| [00:16:34] |
Agiofws: |
this is rocket science for me :( |
| [00:16:40] |
Dagmar: |
It's really not that hard |
| [00:16:44] |
Agiofws: |
CGI ? |
| [00:16:47] |
Dagmar: |
You just have to break each problem down into bite size pieces |
| [00:16:59] |
Dagmar: |
Common Gateway Interface |
| [00:17:14] |
Dagmar: |
The generic term for a "web application" |
| [00:17:20] |
Agiofws: |
ok |
| [00:17:27] |
Dagmar: |
You know when you have a website that wants your email address and you type it in the little blank? |
| [00:17:39] |
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| [00:17:44] |
Agiofws: |
yeah :) |
| [00:17:48] |
Dagmar: |
It's a CGI program on the webserver that takes your email address and gives it to russian spammers |
| [00:18:06] |
Dagmar: |
xris wrote MythWeb |
| [00:18:19] |
Dagmar: |
It's a PHP script, which is also a CGI app |
| [00:18:31] |
Dagmar: |
Or I should say it's a CGI app written in PHP |
| [00:18:40] |
Dagmar: |
Such things aren't very hard at all |
| [00:18:57] |
Dagmar: |
If you know one programming language that doesn't suck and HTML you know all you need to |
| [00:19:00] |
Agiofws: |
you mean simple html clinets that use http protocol to connectto an httpd server ? |
| [00:19:07] |
xris: |
Dagmar: the php isn't cgi. |
| [00:19:23] |
xris: |
only the perl stuff in mythweb (streaming) is cgi, and only if people don't have mod_perl running |
| [00:19:23] |
Dagmar: |
I was under the impression that CGI dictated the variables Apache passes down and so forth |
| [00:19:48] |
xris: |
Dagmar: no.. "common gateway interface".. it's the protocol with which the web server communicates with non-plugin applications providing web services. |
| [00:19:57] |
Dagmar: |
Either way, you agree that what Agiofws would need for an interface would not be hard |
| [00:19:57] |
xris: |
mod_perl and mod_php are plugins, and thus use their own protocols |
| [00:20:15] |
Agiofws: |
NightMonkey, i would just like to know that i add the Schedule Properties to the VLC server right ? |
| [00:20:35] |
xris: |
Dagmar: didn't see what Agiofws wants to do |
| [00:20:37] |
JackEStorm: |
xris: PHP can be CGI, as well as C, Perl, Python, Java, etc... |
| [00:20:46] |
Agiofws: |
i'll have to set up a linux box at the station and start some testing |
| [00:20:51] |
xris: |
JackEStorm: yes.. but php is rarely run in cgi mode |
| [00:20:52] |
JackEStorm: |
Agiofws: btw: http://old.spiney.org/public/phpRecEvent/ |
| [00:20:57] |
Agiofws: |
but first i have to start it here on my own box |
| [00:21:03] |
Dagmar: |
xris: basically he wants to convert a dinky TV station to run more or less on automatic for the queuing |
| [00:21:18] |
JackEStorm: |
xris: 'cept for me, thats how I run it. in a suexec jail |
| [00:21:43] |
xris: |
JackEStorm: php just has a lot of overhead... |
| [00:21:51] |
xris: |
Dagmar: interesting. |
| [00:22:03] |
Dagmar: |
xris: Yeah, it's not a terribly hard thing to do |
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| [00:22:28] |
Dagmar: |
Probably less complex in many ways than what you've done with MythWeb |
| [00:22:31] |
Agiofws: |
Dagmar, basiaclly the streaming softarew that goes to the AIR wONT play a file bigger than 2 GB |
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| [00:22:44] |
Agiofws: |
cause it was made for |
| [00:22:45] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: Yes, welcome to Linux where we don't care how large files are |
| [00:22:54] |
Agiofws: |
fat32 |
| [00:22:56] |
Agiofws: |
its so old |
| [00:23:11] |
Agiofws: |
aand its a windows machine |
| [00:23:12] |
Dagmar: |
Give 'em a samba share mapped to an XFS filesystem |
| [00:23:20] |
Agiofws: |
it crashes on AIR somethimes |
| [00:23:21] |
Dagmar: |
Let 'em drag and drop programs into the store |
| [00:23:38] |
Dagmar: |
Then queue them up to play using a web interface |
| [00:23:41] |
Agiofws: |
sometimes |
| [00:23:51] |
Agiofws: |
Dagmar, the playlist is about 1000 files |
| [00:24:03] |
Dagmar: |
Doesn't matter to a computer |
| [00:24:21] |
Dagmar: |
Drawing all those fractals everyone was so fond of in the 90's meant doing a simple math computation a few trillion times |
| [00:24:23] |
Agiofws: |
yes buts its onoy one instance of a mplayer |
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JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: 90's? I was fond of them in the 80's and still am now |
| [00:24:55] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: And I'm talking about starting one instance of a player, letting it play one file and exit, only to be replaced by a new instance of a player |
| [00:25:05] |
Agiofws: |
yes |
| [00:25:12] |
Agiofws: |
ok i understand that |
| [00:25:26] |
Dagmar: |
So why does it matter if it's 1,000 files, 10,000 files, or just three files |
| [00:25:43] |
Dagmar: |
Trying to deal with and make changes to a 1,000 entry playlist would get ugly |
| [00:25:45] |
Agiofws: |
yes it does not matter the way you set it up |
| [00:25:52] |
Agiofws: |
butthe way its playing now |
| [00:25:54] |
Agiofws: |
it is |
| [00:25:59] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: dude, WHY? use a transport stream, and use that to queue in and out, and you can still over-ride. |
| [00:26:04] |
Agiofws: |
cause it uses a 1000 file plaulist |
| [00:26:27] |
Dagmar: |
JackEStorm: yes, keep using those big words in front of him and see if he doesn't run away screaming |
| [00:26:40] |
Dagmar: |
This guy is not a leet coder |
| [00:26:48] |
Dagmar: |
We gotta start him with simple |
| [00:26:58] |
Agiofws: |
hey anyone thinking of suing netcat to stream the files ? |
| [00:27:02] |
Agiofws: |
LOL |
| [00:27:10] |
Dagmar: |
You laugh, but... |
| [00:27:17] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: ok, ummm, lemme think |
| [00:27:19] |
Dagmar: |
It could probably be done |
| [00:27:45] |
Agiofws: |
i once streammed FLV from one host and landed UP mp3 on there other host :) |
| [00:27:48] |
JackEStorm: |
Agiofws: thats back to VLC, and that would be better |
| [00:28:12] |
Agiofws: |
maybe you could just do |
| [00:28:12] |
Dagmar: |
...but possibly more complex than he could handle right now |
| [00:28:22] |
Agiofws: |
cat foo faa fee fum |
| [00:28:22] |
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| [00:29:10] |
Dagmar: |
A half-assed coder who was reasonably familiar with mplayer could probably hack something together in about nine hours of work |
| [00:29:49] |
Agiofws: |
1)cat with-out-you.flv | nc 192.168.2.5 5000 |
| [00:29:51] |
Dagmar: |
Properly organized, someone could continue to improve/optimize it from there without ever really stopping the output |
| [00:30:00] |
Agiofws: |
2)nc -l -p 5000 | ffmpeg -i – -acodec mp3 with-out-you.mp3 |
| [00:30:23] |
Agiofws: |
buts thats nothing to do with my issue i think |
| [00:30:38] |
Agiofws: |
maybe stream to client ? |
| [00:30:39] |
JackEStorm: |
wait a sec, doesn't mplayer support mysql playlists? |
| [00:30:42] |
Agiofws: |
i don;t know\ |
| [00:30:49] |
Dagmar: |
I've gotta quit talking about this or I'll wind up writing the thing |
| [00:31:06] |
Dagmar: |
It's too easy and I should be polishing my packet mangling skills |
| [00:31:13] |
Agiofws: |
if i had money we would do it togethro Dagmar |
| [00:31:58] |
GreyFoxx: |
What exactly are you trying to do? Just setup a network video feed? |
| [00:32:17] |
Dagmar: |
JackEStorm: Another thing I'm taking into consideration is from what I've learned of the campus TV stations I've talked to, people love submitting all sorts of cooked files |
| [00:32:24] |
Dagmar: |
...so you really need to be ready for the player to do something weird |
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| [00:32:34] |
Agiofws: |
submitting all sorts of cooked files |
| [00:32:39] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: This might also be something to investigate, but you do need to do a little C coding: http://www.mltframework.org/twiki/bin/view/MLT/ |
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| [00:33:20] |
Dagmar: |
Agiofws: You know how when you download por...er video files off the internet and they don't always play correctly? |
| [00:33:32] |
Dagmar: |
Sometimes too slow, sometimes too fast, etc |
| [00:34:01] |
JackEStorm: |
Dagmar: true... |
| [00:34:17] |
Dagmar: |
What length a file SAYS it is might not actually be that length once it gets done feeing the video player lots of corrupted frames |
| [00:34:32] |
Agiofws: |
sometimes only 2 secs of a 1 hour video ? |
| [00:34:58] |
Dagmar: |
Or, sometimes a 20 minute file that is cooked in a manner that causes it to actually take 22 minutes to play |
| [00:35:22] |
Agiofws: |
they also have this problem |
| [00:35:52] |
Dagmar: |
Yes, this is where having individual segments started at a specific time, able to just kill the old player if it's running too long, would be a lifesaver |
| [00:36:12] |
Agiofws: |
the motaz compuetrs use a program again witha canopus card that it uses to edit the videos and cut them and add music or speakage but |
| [00:36:34] |
Agiofws: |
the progrmam can only EDIT ITS OWN FILES ON tHAT COMPUTER |
| [00:36:39] |
Agiofws: |
and on fomr another ONE |
| [00:36:47] |
Agiofws: |
it only can edit AVI files |
| [00:36:49] |
Dagmar: |
Yes, well, Cinelerra can do all the cutting and editing like that you want |
| [00:36:50] |
Agiofws: |
not MPG |
| [00:37:04] |
Agiofws: |
yeah i know |
| [00:37:13] |
Agiofws: |
and the MIAN problem is that |
| [00:37:14] |
Dagmar: |
If you can't get it for your distro, Google for "Dynebolic". You can get it on a LiveCD you can just boot |
| [00:37:16] |
Agiofws: |
the sw |
| [00:37:32] |
Agiofws: |
is OLD so again they have a limit of 2GB files |
| [00:37:39] |
Agiofws: |
so if the have a reportage |
| [00:37:51] |
Dagmar: |
Yes, Dynebolic can supply them with an NLE for video files that will astound them then, probably |
| [00:37:55] |
Agiofws: |
overs like 30 mINS the PLAYER wont play it |
| [00:38:04] |
Dagmar: |
NLE == non-linear editor |
| [00:38:39] |
Dagmar: |
If this is what's considered the state of the art there, you really might want to consider starting a sourceforge project |
| [00:38:52] |
Dagmar: |
There might well be people out there willing to spend some time coding something up |
| [00:39:23] |
Dagmar: |
I'd do it, but I'm kinda doing the Dropline thing |
| [00:39:37] |
Agiofws: |
nah you have done enough |
| [00:40:12] |
Agiofws: |
NightMonkey what exactly is MLT/ ? |
| [00:40:18] |
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| [00:40:19] |
Agiofws: |
MLT is an open source multimedia framework, |
| [00:40:26] |
Agiofws: |
nd developed for television broadcasting. ? |
| [00:40:39] |
Agiofws: |
is it a ready application ? |
| [00:40:48] |
Agiofws: |
i don;t think so right ? |
| [00:41:01] |
Dagmar: |
OKay, I see now... All those years of using the Perl CGI module have gotten my nomenclature all scrambled |
| [00:41:14] |
Agiofws: |
nomenclature all scrambled ? |
| [00:41:16] |
NightMonkey: |
Agiofws: Dunno. It's F/OSS, try it out, if it looks good to you. |
| [00:41:47] |
Agiofws: |
is it a ready app or is it lke a back end ? |
| [00:41:58] |
Agiofws: |
ok thanks though |
| [00:42:20] |
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| [00:42:22] |
Dagmar: |
Jesus, version 0.1.1 |
| [00:42:25] |
Dagmar: |
That's scary |
| [00:43:13] |
JackEStorm: |
NightMonkey: wait I thought MLT was a frame work? |
| [00:43:17] |
Dagmar: |
What is it, a readme file and three headers? |
| [00:43:18] |
my2keh: |
anyone here use VMWare? |
| [00:43:56] |
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| [00:43:56] |
NightMonkey: |
NightMonkey: Yep, looks like it. But doing programming as a possiblity was already broached... ;) |
| [00:44:22] |
JackEStorm: |
NightMonkey: stop talking to your self |
| [00:44:48] |
GreyFoxx: |
my2keh: I use ti all the time |
| [00:44:57] |
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| [00:44:59] |
NightMonkey: |
JackEStorm: Doh! That was meant for you... ;) |
| [00:45:00] |
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| [00:45:26] |
my2keh: |
GreyFoxx>> ok, I'm just starting with it...might have a few Q's your way :) |
| [00:45:30] |
JackEStorm: |
NightMonkey: :) |
| [00:45:37] |
Agiofws: |
Dagmar, what woulodi use the OS scope for ? |
| [00:45:43] |
NightMonkey: |
JackEStorm: Some of the subprojects look interesting: http://www.mltframework.org/twiki/bin/view/MLT/Projects |
| [00:45:44] |
Agiofws: |
to calibrate what exactly ? |
| [00:45:44] |
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| [00:46:06] |
NightMonkey: |
JackEStorm: The KNOPPIX one (for try-out) especially. |
| [00:46:14] |
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| [00:47:28] |
NightMonkey: |
Dagmar: 0.2.4 of mlt was released on 8/6, if their sf.net page is to be believed. |
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