Beirdobot, irc.freenode.net

Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 00:02 UTC

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TauPan:

hi... I'm trying to get mythtv running with 1) jack-audio and 2) realtime scheduling... ... Ad 1) setting "JACK:" as audio output device leads to sound that sounds like it's sampled with the wrong sampling rate. Ad 2) As soon as I enabled realtime capabilities in /etc/security/limits.conf, the icons in the frontend partially disappeared.

[00:05:36]

kharan5876:

are there any pci cards that can capture video from RGB component cables that work well with mythtv?

[00:05:40]

Chicago:

TauPan: It's easier to use realtime-lsm module and chmod g+s your /usr/bin/mythfrontend.

[00:05:41]

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[00:05:42]

kharan5876:

I use my cable box as a tuner

[00:06:43]

TauPan:

Chicago: easier? jackd works perfectly well with that setting and the threads have the appropriate FIFO scheduling priority... do you mean mythtv runs better with realtime-lsm?

[00:07:52]

Chicago:

TauPan: Yeah... mythcommflag is another one that's good to chmod g+s for a group you give elevated privileges too... overall the frontend for me responds better searching through video and seeking position when I give the frontend binary the elevated privs.

[00:08:11]

TauPan:

also note that the frontend itself does not have realtime priority, I disabled that

[00:09:17]

TauPan:

but it doesn't make any difference

[00:09:39]

onewheelskyward:

I guess I was wrong, kharan5876. :) There are people here whom would know, if they were around.

[00:13:27]

TauPan:

Chicago: excuse me, what should be the difference whether I use realtime lsm or pam?

[00:14:47]

kharan5876:

is cable-us the right channel frequency table setting for digital cable?

[00:14:57]

onewheelskyward:

It is for me, on comcast.

[00:18:50]

Chicago:

TauPan: If you're running a desktop and watching myth together... then everything you're doing would be under the user with elevated privs.... if you use realtime... and only mod that mythfrontend binary for elevated privs... then you should get proper scheduling for not only myth but also child processes... like the QT interface you were having no icons for earlier...

[00:19:17]

Chicago:

TauPan; but it is normal after you clear the cache for no icons to show up... (after you change the general appearance).

[00:20:02]

TauPan:

I just checked, the only apps that actually have realtime priority are kernel threads and jackd threads.

[00:20:32]

TauPan:

and you can configure groups to get realtime priority privileges with pam as well, so there should be no difference to what you proposed

[00:20:54]

emcnabb:

hum, this may be obvious, but I'm not seeing how to do it: how can I remove all the recordings of a certain program (e.g. delete all of "The Simpsons" episodes)?

[00:21:21]

TauPan:

I tried switching between QT and openGL and I get no icons in either

[00:21:39]

TauPan:

and I get "rescaling icons" every time I start the frontend

[00:23:48]

TauPan:

(it's actually "skaliere Themenbilder", no idea what the english message would be)

[00:24:33]

TauPan:

changing the theme doesn't get me the icons back, either

[00:50:55]

TauPan:

I'm starting to doubt that the disappearing icons have anything to do with realtime scheduling at all.

[00:51:20]

TauPan:

because I just disabled the settings and logged back in and the icons were still missing

[00:51:42]

TauPan:

(+ logged out before logging back in and killed all realtime processes belonging to me)

[00:58:17]

TauPan:

in fact it could also be that the problems are related to my changing the audio output port to "JACK:" via the web frontend

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[01:18:30]

at0m|c:

TauPan: i have similar rescaling issues, it rescales each time i open the frontend, and i'm using default audio output

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[02:02:38]

TauPan:

thanks for listening to my speculations :)

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[02:34:36]

sandeen:

what do people have [ |<< ] and [ >>| ] remote keys mapped to for myth/

[02:34:42]

sandeen:

i.e. the chapter skip type buttons for dvds...

[02:35:07]

hads:

z/a

[02:35:52]

sandeen:

what do those do? :)

[02:36:00]

** sandeen reads the keybinding page on the wiki... **

[02:36:23]

hads:

Congratulations, I was just about to send you there :)

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[02:36:48]

hads:

They skip commercials

[02:37:03]

hads:

Ug, that should be q/z

[02:37:11]

sandeen:

hmm that says .... yeah

[02:37:12]

sandeen:

:D

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[02:37:35]

sandeen:

*shrug* ok that sounds reasonable :)

[02:37:45]

sandeen:

not sure I'd actually use them but might as well hook it up :)

[02:38:00]

hads:

Believe me it's useful.

[02:38:18]

hads:

commflagging is usually pretty darn good.

[02:38:37]

sandeen:

oh, I just turned on auto-skip, so....

[02:38:42]

Captain_Murdoch:

you could also bind those buttons to the JUMPFFWD and JUMPRWND actions which jump in larger increments.

[02:39:16]

sandeen:

Captain_Murdoch, is that pgup/pgdown...?

[02:39:18]

** Captain_Murdoch wrote the flagger and doesn't trust it enough to auto-skip... :) **

[02:39:20]

sandeen:

oh, actions...

[02:39:24]

Captain_Murdoch:

yeah

[02:39:27]

sandeen:

Captain_Murdoch, well I think you did a find job :)

[02:39:29]

Captain_Murdoch:

pgup/down are the defafults

[02:39:30]

sandeen:

fine, even

[02:39:40]

hads:

I let it notify but not auto-skip

[02:39:40]

sandeen:

a magical job even :)

[02:39:51]

sandeen:

i rarely get an auto-skip I don't like

[02:40:12]

Captain_Murdoch:

works better for some channels than others and better for people in the U.S. than other countries it seems.

[02:40:45]

hads:

It definitly wouldn't work here on auto-skip :)

[02:41:12]

sandeen:

skipping commercials is stealing television, you know ;-)

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[02:41:24]

hads:

Up/Down is the same as PgUp/PgDown whilst watching a recording no?

[02:42:54]

xanderp:

ok, i rebuilt my backend on a new fc6 install, but can't seem to figure out how to share my recordings directory in such a way (SMB) that my xbox can access it successfully. I had this before on my old install, but can't for the life of me figure out the samba permissions to allow unfettered read only access to the share with no authentication required so that my xbmcmythtv can read it.

[02:43:20]

Captain_Murdoch:

hads, seems to be actually.

[02:43:57]

sandeen:

hmm if so then I can use the keys for something else :)

[02:44:14]

hads:

Yeah, that's what I figure

[02:44:21]

Captain_Murdoch:

sandeen: actually, I prefer to think of it as just not watching all they gave me. :) I don't need it all, they can give the parts I don't watch to someone else.

[02:44:56]

Captain_Murdoch:

pgup/down are nice to have for screens with lists of things on them though.

[02:45:14]

Captain_Murdoch:

like your scheduled recordings list or watch recordings screen, etc..

[02:45:38]

hads:

True. I use the laptop that's usually sitting on the couch arm for that

[02:46:32]

Captain_Murdoch:

comes in handy when you have 90+ schedules. :)

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[02:52:15]

dorao:

how do I improve the quality of flash stream when playing recordings via mythweb?

[02:52:25]

sandeen:

i think my remote maps chup/chdown to the up/down menu nav keys :/

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[03:23:40]

infinity1:

err ..anyone still around?

[03:23:48]

infinity1:

my autoshutdown stuff works very inconsistently

[03:24:00]

infinity1:

i can't figure out why it sometimes won't shutdown.

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infinity1:

/usr/bin/mythshutdown -v all -s says 0, but myth isn't shuting down. hm

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media_:

#xine

[03:54:06]

media_:

anyone know if there's a fix for newer dvd's like stranger than fiction, the prestige, and other dvd's with junk added to cause read errors while ripping?

[03:55:00]

high-rez:

Not sure if anyone saw this, but the apple tv thing has been totally hacked (white hat).

[03:55:12]

high-rez:

People are modding. Sure would be a nice myth frontend.

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infinity1:

ok. so if i restart mythbackend ...my autoshutdown works. if i don't, it doesn't. what the heck.

[04:18:50]

infinity1:

how does mythtv backend dtermine if a front end is attached

[04:18:51]

infinity1:

?

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[04:24:20]

hads:

high-rez: Mmm, that would be a nice little frontend wouldn't it.

[04:26:00]

hads:

Being apple though I imagine the remote will have 3 buttons or so.

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[04:35:49]

knowledgejunkie:

hads: Power, Buy Music, and Buy Videos

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[04:40:56]

infinity1:

anyone know how idle detection works exatly? is it buggy? my problem appears to be that the box doesn't know its idle, even though it says it is.

[04:41:12]

Cardoe:

anyone seen kormoc lately?

[04:41:13]

hads:

knowledgejunkie: Huh?

[04:47:08]

xris:

Cardoe: he's been out of town all week

[04:47:18]

xris:

will get back sunday or so

[04:47:28]

Cardoe:

xris: ah. alright cool

[04:47:38]

** cesman wonders if anyone else see apple tv as anything more than a big ipod.... **

[04:55:52]

hads:

If it runs Linux I can see it being a lot of things.

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knowledgejunkie:

hads: the 3 buttons

[05:00:26]

hads:

Ahhh.. I get you. It's a slow day here :)

[05:00:49]

hjohnson:

hads: it runs OS X

[05:03:36]

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[05:07:28]

SlicerDicer-:

so xris think there is any chance with the AppleTV running myth? Its got 1ghz with 256mb ram and a nvidia gfx card :)

[05:07:35]

SlicerDicer-:

7300 mobile one

[05:08:20]

xris:

SlicerDicer-: there are rumors that people are going to try

[05:08:40]

SlicerDicer-:

xris: I want to try!

[05:08:50]

SlicerDicer-:

:)

[05:08:53]

SlicerDicer-:

I dont know when I can get one though

[05:08:55]

hads:

So try :)

[05:09:13]

SlicerDicer-:

it will be a sexy frontend thats for sure

[05:09:29]

hads:

Indeed

[05:11:51]

SlicerDicer-:

its not like EFI is a problem eh? ;-)

[05:12:20]

alsoconfused:

electronic fuel injection?

[05:14:07]

SlicerDicer-:

yes

[05:17:45]

clever:

SlicerDicer-: my dell laptop has an ati video board and 1ghz cpu and about 256mb ram and it works good for a frontend

[05:18:12]

clever:

the cpu can underclock to 700mhz which is still enough to feed the frontend

[05:18:28]

SlicerDicer-:

clever ohh no worries on that department

[05:18:35]

SlicerDicer-:

my kitchen computer runs the specs of the appletv

[05:18:36]

clever:

:)

[05:18:41]

SlicerDicer-:

no problem on output there

[05:18:44]

SlicerDicer-:

it runs less actually

[05:18:54]

clever:

and my wifi b is able to stream my mpeg4 tv encodes from the frame grabber

[05:19:17]

clever:

get a bigger batery and i'll have a portable tv which runs anywhere in the house:P

[05:19:18]

SlicerDicer-:

1.4ghz Thunderbird with MMX "note the ooooooooh" and a 64mb mx440 using xvmc with 512 ram

[05:19:21]

SlicerDicer-:

256mb more ram but meh

[05:19:36]

clever:

my laptop has 2 bays in it

[05:19:39]

clever:

left can take a batery

[05:19:45]

clever:

right can take a batery/cd/floppy

[05:20:48]

clever:

once i get a replacement for this and get the tvout working on here i may make it into a full time frontend

[05:20:58]

clever:

this is currently the main pc i use for alot of thing

[05:20:59]

clever:

s

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[05:27:54]

SlicerDicer-:

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951 does not seem to be too crazy of guts inside

[05:44:06]

doc|home:

I'm just wondering how many people use mythtv on their desktops? Would it be worthwhile filing a feature request for a different frontend which is a normal gui app. Might be a lot faster :/

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[05:50:07]

xanderp:

i have a corrupted tv recording listing that won't delete. there is no file, but i can't get rid of the listing (has a blank name also). help please!

[05:50:10]

GreyFoxx:

doc|home: what do you nean "normal gui" ? I run it just find on my work desktop

[05:50:25]

knowledgejunkie:

doc|home: What, like mythfrontend?

[05:51:27]

xanderp:

that wasn't very clear. what i was trying to say is that my frontends show a tv show to watch that doesn't exist, has no name, and won't delete. i don't know how to make it go away.

[05:51:31]

doc|home:

GreyFoxx: does it take forever to start up? When I go back from the initial menu it takes a while to show the 'Do you want to exit?' question. Listing programmes can take 15–20 seconds and I don't have that many nor a slow box

[05:51:48]

doc|home:

knowledgejunkie: yeah, just faster

[05:51:48]

GreyFoxx:

doc|home: Nope, works pefectly find

[05:51:51]

GreyFoxx:

fine

[05:51:56]

doc|home:

:/

[05:52:07]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: you can use myth.rebuilddatabase.pl – it's in /mythtv/contrib

[05:52:33]

xanderp:

awesome, thanks... will that delete my other shows too?

[05:53:37]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: no – it will let you know of any orphaned files/recording entries and allow you to fix them

[05:53:53]

xanderp:

ahh.. didn't even know it existed.. thanks

[05:54:08]

xanderp:

do i need to chmod it to X to run the script?

[05:54:46]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: only if you execute it as a script

[05:56:30]

xanderp:

how to execute it? do i pass it as an argument to perl? perl myth.rebuiddatabase.pl or something?

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[05:57:36]

xanderp:

will google it...

[05:58:04]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: chmod u+x to run directly as a script, or perl myth.rebuiddatabase.pl to run it from the command line via perl

[06:00:54]

xanderp:

wow.. i tried just perl myth.rebuilddatabase.pl and it barfed. http://paste-bin.com/8746

[06:01:52]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: You're missing perl modules. Lookup how to use CPAN to get them

[06:01:58]

xanderp:

thanks

[06:04:27]

** knowledgejunkie smiles because he's just noticed Larry Sanders appear in the UK listings **

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xanderp:

i wish i knew the depends for that rebuilddatabase... i've installed several perl modules for Time and still cant get it working

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knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: they're all listed at the top of the script :)

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xanderp:

knowledgejunkie: do i have to do something to activate perl modules other than installing them? I'm using fedora and pulling them in with yum.

[06:57:57]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: you shouldn't have to

[06:58:04]

xanderp:

hmmm

[06:58:40]

xanderp:

i'm trying to descipher the apt-get names to the yum names for those perl mods and I think i have installed them. odd

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[07:00:53]

FasuxE:

does anyone in here have an opinion about what setup is best for deinterlacing in mythtv?

[07:00:54]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: I would always use CPAN, not apt-get

[07:01:29]

xanderp:

cpan is a install program?

[07:05:20]

xanderp:

i just ran cpan, it's configuring

[07:08:03]

xanderp:

so do i do something like 'cpan install Time::Format' or something to pull in the modules?

[07:09:54]

premier_:

do hauppage wintv-usb2 devices work with mythtv?

[07:12:33]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: man cpan

[07:13:24]

pat_:

there is some package-delio to automatically create debs from the cpan

[07:13:30]

pat_:

repository

[07:14:19]

xanderp:

i think it's going now... it wants me to update my cpan

[07:15:06]

xris:

xanderp: there should already be debian packages for anything you need for mythtv stuff

[07:15:22]

xris:

xanderp: or rpms

[07:15:45]

xanderp:

just trying to run myth.rebuilddatebase.pl and missing perl pieces apparently

[07:16:56]

xris:

xanderp: for fedora?

[07:17:03]

xanderp:

fc6 yes

[07:17:16]

xris:

should have everything you need in yum

[07:17:19]

xris:

yum list 'perl*'

[07:18:04]

xanderp:

coudn't figure out the yum names for the perl modules, or something is broken or something.. i installed what looked like the right ones, but still couldn't run the rebuild.pl file

[07:19:04]

xanderp:

xris that came up with TONS of perl stuff... i tried the Time ones since it appears to want them

[07:19:27]

xris:

should be pretty clean what it wants.

[07:19:37]

xris:

Time::HiRes would be something like perl-Time-HiRes

[07:22:51]

premier_:

Im having trouble setting up the mysql server for mythtv... the manual says I have to do something like "mysql < mc.sql" but that fails on my system

[07:23:05]

premier_:

the error is: "ERROR 1102 (42000): Incorrect database name 'mc.sql'"

[07:23:42]

premier_:

the manual only gives instructions for gentoo, debian, and fc. Im running kubuntu

[07:24:16]

xris:

premier_: sounds like you forgot the < character

[07:24:38]

premier_:

xris: your right, but its still not working

[07:24:45]

premier_:

bash: mc.sql: No such file or directory

[07:24:54]

xris:

premier_: you need to be in the same directory as mc.sql

[07:25:02]

premier_:

where is mc.sql?

[07:25:04]

xris:

start from the beginning. how did you install mythtv?

[07:25:20]

premier_:

apt-get, using the ubuntu repositories

[07:25:31]

xris:

db should already be set up, then.

[07:25:59]

premier_:

okay, so when I start mythtv, I get a blue screen, and it asks me what langauge I speak

[07:26:24]

premier_:

and then it crashes. The command line contians a lot of error code. Should I pastebin it

[07:26:32]

premier_:

xris: ?

[07:28:57]

premier_:

xris: http://pastebin.ca/407696

[07:30:19]

xris:

premier_: did you run mythtv-setup?

[07:30:24]

xris:

and you never run mythtv by itself

[07:30:34]

xris:

you use mythfrontend, and only after you have mythbackend running

[07:30:48]

premier_:

Im using mythtv because Im trying to get a tv tuner working, and all the other programs Im tried seem to crash.

[07:30:59]

premier_:

okay, hold on

[07:31:01]

xris:

mythtv is just the player

[07:31:08]

xris:

it's not a standalone app

[07:31:26]

xris:

it runs inside of mythfrontend

[07:32:02]

premier_:

okay, I ran mythtv-setup, and it still threw a lot of error code, similar to what I pastebinned

[07:32:24]

xanderp:

i think i'm going to be sad... i got myth.rebuilddatabase.pl to work, but it's not what i'm looking for i don't think.. I'm not trying to import files into the database.. I'm trying to remove a bad entry from the database.

[07:32:39]

xris:

premier_: is mysql running?

[07:32:48]

premier_:

I dont know, how do I run it

[07:33:03]

xris:

premier_: ps ax | grep mysql

[07:33:15]

xris:

xanderp: are you running .20?

[07:33:33]

premier_:

7016 ? Sl 0:01 /usr/sbin/mysqld --basedir=/usr --datadir=/var/lib/mysql --user=mysql --pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid --skip-locking --port=3306 --socket=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock

[07:33:42]

premier_:

6805 ? S 0:00 /bin/sh /usr/bin/mysqld_safe

[07:33:44]

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[07:33:45]

xris:

premier_: that means it's running

[07:33:55]

premier_:

okay, good

[07:34:13]

xris:

chances are, you got bit by the ubuntu packages assigning a random password for the mythtv user.

[07:34:24]

premier_:

what?

[07:34:29]

xanderp:

xris yes

[07:34:31]

premier_:

why would they do that?

[07:34:54]

knowledgejunkie:

premier_: Because it makes things easier for the user

[07:34:55]

xris:

premier_: they consider it a security thing. random password is generated on install so that it's not "mythtv" and easy to hack

[07:35:13]

knowledgejunkie:

premier_: :)

[07:35:19]

premier_:

updateb? thats not a command line

[07:35:23]

xris:

xanderp: you should just be able to delete the entry from the frontend or mythweb. backend will still delete the entries even if there's no file.

[07:35:30]

xris:

premier_: updatedb

[07:35:43]

xanderp:

xris i've tried, but it doesn't go away.

[07:35:53]

xris:

if you don't have slocate installed, you might need to install it.

[07:36:03]

xris:

xanderp: ick. could always just manually tweak the recorded table

[07:36:08]

premier_:

man, I thought I had gotten past the noob phase

[07:36:22]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: try myth.find_orphans.pl

[07:36:47]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: Sorry for the confusion

[07:37:12]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: I thought this functionality was in rebuilddatabase too

[07:37:14]

xanderp:

i don't have a myth.find_orphans.pl... looking.

[07:37:34]

premier_:

"DBPassword="

[07:37:52]

xris:

premier_: mysql -u root -p

[07:38:19]

xris:

premier_: GRANT ALL ON mythconverg.* TO mythtv@'localhost' IDENTIFIED BY "some-password";

[07:38:27]

xris:

(password is usually just mythtv)

[07:38:59]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: myth.find_orphans.pl will check your DB and look for matching recordings, and then check your recordings and look for matching DB entries

[07:39:08]

premier_:

ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: YES)

[07:39:22]

knowledgejunkie:

xanderp: it might only be available from the SVN server

[07:39:29]

premier_:

xris: what is that you told me to do? GRANT ALL something?

[07:39:32]

knowledgejunkie:

see http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/browser/trunk/myth . . . d_orphans.pl for more info

[07:40:13]

xris:

premier_: you need to log into mysql before you can run the grant

[07:40:19]

xris:

try: mysql -u root

[07:40:38]

xanderp:

knowledgejunkie: i had found that, just trying to figure out how to copy/paste it from there without the line numbers getting in the way.

[07:40:58]

premier_:

okay

[07:41:04]

xris:

xanderp: bottom of page "original format"

[07:41:17]

xris:

premier_: logged into mysql? run the grant command now.

[07:41:18]

xanderp:

got it...

[07:41:42]

premier_:

xris: okay, it said "Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.15 sec)"

[07:42:03]

xris:

premier_: now: FLUSH PRIVILEGES;

[07:42:07]

xris:

then exit

[07:42:29]

premier_:

okay

[07:42:58]

xris:

now find all of the mysql.txt files on your drive, and fix the password in there

[07:45:42]

premier_:

okay, I changed it in /home/me/.mythtv/mysql.txt, do I have to fix it at /usr/share/mythtv/mysql.txt.dist?

[07:46:12]

premier_:

also, the other two mysql.txt files dont have a "DBPassword=" line, they're just blank files

[07:47:01]

xris:

no worry about the .dist file

[07:47:14]

xris:

if the files are blank, delete them

[07:47:20]

xris:

now try running mythtv-setup

[07:49:18]

premier_:

okay, I got the langauge screen again, but the background was different

[07:49:38]

premier_:

And then I got a menu, and I went to general, and it crashed

[07:49:46]

premier_:

lots of error code like before

[07:51:16]

premier_:

Is it possible to force mythtv to run in a window?

[07:51:31]

xris:

premier_: are you running mythtv or mythtv-setup?

[07:51:43]

xris:

yes, you can, but you have to get INTO the system first to change the settings

[07:51:57]

premier_:

mythtv-setup

[07:52:02]

xris:

if you're doing this to see if your tv card works, you're better off just running through a normal guide.. generally, you're supposed to get the tv card working before running mythtv stuff.

[07:52:12]

premier_:

oh okay

[07:53:13]

premier_:

something about YUY2 Overlay support

[07:54:29]

premier_:

I tried xawtv, tvtime, kdetv, motv

[07:55:10]

premier_:

kdetv said, "Video display is not possible with the current plugin configuration. Try playing with the configuration options of the V4L2 plugin."

[07:55:22]

premier_:

do you know where the config files are?

[07:57:20]

xris:

not a clue

[07:57:20]

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[07:57:25]

xris:

what kind of card?

[07:59:07]

premier_:

an ati, like I said

[08:00:17]

premier_:

that card has poor driver support. Apparently ati didnt release the specifications neccessary to write open-source drivers, and for some reason the proprietary fglrx drivers aren't as good

[08:00:33]

xris:

the input card, not the output card

[08:00:40]

premier_:

I can render 3d, watch movies, even streaming video fine

[08:01:00]

premier_:

its a hauppauge wintv-usb2

[08:01:14]

premier_:

ubuntu comes with the appropriate drivers

[08:02:03]

premier_:

the wintv-usb2 is not to be confused with the wintv-pvr-usb2

[08:02:26]

xris:

hardware encoder card?

[08:02:39]

premier_:

I think so... what does that mean?

[08:04:26]

xris:

it means that the device does the video encoding instead of some piece of software on your machine.

[08:04:50]

xris:

if it's a hardware encoder card, you should be able to just extract a video file from the device, and play it with something like mplayer

[08:05:11]

premier_:

yeah, it does a huge amount of compression so that it can fit on a usb2.0 bandwidth

[08:05:51]

premier_:

how would I do that?

[08:06:05]

premier_:

mplayer tv:// doesnt work

[08:07:02]

xris:

you'd have to find the device.... and then do something like: cat /dev/video0 > /tmp/myfile.mpg

[08:07:11]

xris:

then hit control-c after awhile and play the file with mplayer

[08:07:36]

premier_:

thats a droll way to do it

[08:08:08]

premier_:

mplayer has some configuration options for video capture devices, can't I just play with those?

[08:08:21]

premier_:

xris, how do I find the device?

[08:08:56]

xris:

it's probably /dev/video0

[08:09:07]

xris:

but it depends on how ubuntu set up the drivers

[08:10:07]

shodan-:

how is the mythcommflag data stored ? (where and how)

[08:10:29]

premier_:

xris: there is a /dev/video0

[08:10:35]

xris:

shodan-: recordedmarkup

[08:13:22]

premier_:

xris: so I dumped it to a file, and the file is about 2.9MB after about 20–30 sec capture, and no media player seems to be able to play it, mplayer, vlc, mplayer frontends, kaffine

[08:13:26]

shodan-:

is this right ? -> | 1515 | 2007-03–24 03:00:00 | 13568 | NULL | 4 | "something" at 13.568 minute ?

[08:13:50]

premier_:

would it help to restart my computer?

[08:14:09]

shodan-:

or is it frame #13568 ?

[08:14:35]

xris:

shodan-: frame#

[08:15:11]

xris:

premier_: I don't know enough/anything about your tuner to be much help. You need to find a guide for how to get it working in linux.. and THEN, you can move on to the mythtv stuff.

[08:15:20]

xris:

linuxtv.org might have some info

[08:15:32]

xris:

and there are many guides for mythtv (and the mythtv wiki and official documentation)

[08:15:51]

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[08:15:58]

perlmonkey:

hi

[08:16:11]

shodan-:

xris, ok, and what it the "type" column ? is it the trigger type ? (like blank frame, or logo detection or something like that ?) values I can see for type are -3,4,5 -3 always seems to appears at frame #0

[08:16:32]

xris:

you'd have to look in the code for what those mean.

[08:16:43]

xris:

but it's things like "cut right" "cut left" "commercial left" etc

[08:17:11]

shodan-:

ah ok, the entire cut list fits in there, not just commercial flagging

[08:17:31]

xris:

any kind of markup

[08:17:57]

perlmonkey:

any ideas?

[08:18:21]

xris:

perlmonkey: errors in the backend/frontend with -v all?

[08:19:03]

perlmonkey:

xris: oh i havent got that far yet, ive only installed ivtv driver and just tried two standard tv viewers

[08:19:39]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: using wrong input or tuning table in your software

[08:19:48]

perlmonkey:

i tried both composite video from vcr, and tv signal, i was able to get composite video to record using cat to mpg file

[08:20:26]

perlmonkey:

i got static picture from tv signal to work, so I guess that works too but needs tuning

[08:20:44]

perlmonkey:

but again, both tests showed nothing on the tv viewer software

[08:20:54]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: which software?

[08:21:31]

perlmonkey:

infact, tvtime says "cannot open /dev/video0" and the other player (x..tv?) just had a black screen

[08:21:54]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: perms on /dev/video0?

[08:22:34]

perlmonkey:

phew, i will have to check on workstation as I'm on laptop, but it looked ok to me... it was root user and video group, and my normal user is in video group

[08:22:59]

Dagmar:

It's gzip we can compress kernel modules with, right?

[08:23:45]

** perlmonkey fires up workstation and ssh's to it **

[08:24:14]

t0ny-p40:

How do I enable upnp?

[08:25:08]

knowledgejunkie:

t0ny-p40: should be enabled automatically

[08:25:32]

t0ny-p40:

port 5000 is not open on localhost or its external ip

[08:29:53]

perlmonkey:

knowledgejunkie: crw-rw---- 1 root video 81, 0 2007-03–24 08:27 /dev/video0

[08:30:41]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: looks OK

[08:30:45]

perlmonkey:

:)

[08:31:38]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: from the tvtime homepage: "The ivtv driver supports cards that provide high quality MPEG2 encoded video. This cards are ideal for PVR systems. However, tvtime has no MPEG2 decoding capabilities or audio playback code, and therefore cannot be used to watch live TV from these cards."

[08:31:42]

perlmonkey:

i installed the ivtv driver from the debian package and the ivtv website

[08:31:58]

perlmonkey:

:-O

[08:31:59]

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[08:32:02]

perlmonkey:

*shock*

[08:32:37]

perlmonkey:

can you recommend a player?

[08:32:38]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: on linux, research, research, research. It took me 10s to find that

[08:32:47]

perlmonkey:

ya :-/

[08:32:57]

knowledgejunkie:

perlmonkey: mplayer? xine?

[08:33:07]

perlmonkey:

seen as both players didnt play i just assumed it was a prob with setup

[08:33:13]

perlmonkey:

thanks

[08:34:00]

perlmonkey:

the other player i tried was xawtv

[08:34:46]

perlmonkey:

both these cards worked reasonably well under my old hauppauge bt848 card, but that didnt do mpeg2

[08:34:55]

perlmonkey:

*cards = softs

[08:34:56]

premier_:

Is it possible, with MythTV or any other application, to mute or not record tv advertisements? I know some older hardware PVRs could do that before advertisers put a stop to it

[08:35:47]

perlmonkey:

my cable tv service now offers a service whereby you view on demand, and all the stuff has the adverts removed which is very handy for recording!

[08:37:04]

premier_:

perlmonkey: oh, yeah, I have that back at home, but you dont get all the shows, just a few

[08:37:15]

perlmonkey:

true

[08:37:49]

perlmonkey:

im sure mythtv can remove adverts, but im a new user and havent got that far yet

[08:38:26]

perlmonkey:

adverts seriously f*!k me off

[08:38:55]

perlmonkey:

i call the mute button on the remote "the advert" button ;-)

[08:41:06]

xris:

premier_: most people record tv with mythtv and watch later without commercials

[08:41:20]

xris:

you can have it auto-skip things, though, but it's not always very accurate

[08:42:20]

premier_:

does anyone know how that's possible, technologically? How does the computer (try to) differentiate tv and commercials?

[08:43:00]

premier_:

the older replayTV boxes were fantastic with that. A friend of mine still uses it.

[08:43:37]

xris:

premier_: it depends on the signal, channel, etc.

[08:43:43]

xris:

it's pretty complex code

[08:44:08]

xris:

for me, discovery channel is 99.9% accurate, but travel channel is 0%

[08:44:19]

xris:

(travel channel's mpeg stream for me is a little weird, though)

[08:44:51]

xris:

most other things are 90–95% accurate

[08:45:02]

xris:

was probably 80–90% accurate when I was using analog tv

[08:45:26]

perlmonkey:

I thought it was done by timing, because most tv shows are consistent length and the tv commercials appear at set intervals eh

[08:45:38]

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[08:46:30]

perlmonkey:

like a 30 minute show will have 1 commercial interval usually, for 4 minutes midway through the show

[08:47:31]

perlmonkey:

I actually timed the commercial break with my shopwatch and all the commercials, there were 8 commercials in a 4 minute interval

[08:47:38]

xris:

perlmonkey: they're definitely not consistent in the US

[08:47:42]

t0ny-p40:

I'm going to record a bunch of crap for a friend is there a way I can add a group other then live tv where I can have the shows not show up with the rest of them?

[08:47:42]

perlmonkey:

*stopwatch

[08:47:46]

perlmonkey:

oh

[08:47:51]

perlmonkey:

thats a bummer

[08:48:30]

xris:

perlmonkey: they're all more or less in the same place, but always +- 30 seconds or so.

[08:48:38]

xris:

and then sometimes late at night, you don't get any commercials.

[08:48:52]

xris:

t0ny-p40: yeah. recgroup. can set up whatever you want.

[08:48:52]

perlmonkey:

one annoying thing in the UK re adverts, dont know if this is the same in US...but the volume definitely increases when the adverts are on

[08:48:59]

xris:

not sure how to do it, though.

[08:49:13]

xris:

perlmonkey: supposedly does here, too. I don't really watch them anymore, so I wouldn't know.

[08:49:37]

xris:

there IS talk of using that for determining breaks, though.

[08:49:45]

perlmonkey:

cool

[08:49:50]

xris:

that and switches from widescreen to fullscreen, or fake-widescreen, etc.

[08:49:59]

t0ny-p40:

where is recording groups? I only have recording profiles and priorities

[08:50:28]

xris:

t0ny-p40: I just set mine manually in the db. dunno where they are in the frontend.

[08:50:43]

t0ny-p40:

what table then?

[08:51:32]

knowledgejunkie:

t0ny-p40: in the recording options for your recording – you can add a new group or assign the recording to an existing group

[08:51:44]

t0ny-p40:

ok thanks

[08:52:26]

** perlmonkey hopes to have a mythtv weekend **

[08:52:35]

xris:

t0ny-p40: um, recgroup?

[08:52:54]

xris:

t0ny-p40: hmm, or not

[08:53:08]

** xris should just go to sleep.. **

[08:53:10]

xris:

'night all.

[08:53:11]

xris (xris!n=xris@xris.forevermore.net) has quit ("Leaving.")

[08:53:17]

t0ny-p40:

I only had recgrouppassword

[08:53:18]

perlmonkey:

one question... when I did the cat test on my card and played back the video file, it had a bunch of horizontal black lines over the picture... could that be a problem with card?

[08:53:21]

t0ny-p40:

ah too late

[08:53:29]

perlmonkey:

that was from video composite input too from vcr

[08:54:57]

perlmonkey:

on my older card (hauppauge Bt848) i would also get lines on the tv viewing, but on the right hand side of the screen

[08:55:03]

perlmonkey:

what causes those lines?

[08:56:12]

t0ny-p40:

Might have something to do with cat

[08:56:22]

perlmonkey:

oh

[08:56:25]

t0ny-p40:

try dd if=/dev/video0 of=./videofile

[08:56:30]

perlmonkey:

ok

[09:05:26]

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[09:05:40]

** perlmonkey drags his lazy ass out of bed and logs onto workstation **

[09:06:19]

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[09:13:29]

knowledgejunkie:

t0ny-p40: recgroup is a column in record and recorded, not a separate table like storagegroup or recgrouppassword

[09:14:26]

knowledgejunkie:

t0ny-p40: you can create new ones using the recording settings, and move recordings between groups using the menu in the Watch Recordings list

[09:17:15]

knowledgejunkie:

time for some sleep

[09:17:17]

knowledgejunkie (knowledgejunkie!n=knowledg@unaffiliated/knowledgejunkie) has left #mythtv-users ("I want my, I want my, I want my MythTV")

[09:17:40]

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[09:17:53]

perlmonkey:

what do you guys use for watching tv then in Linux?

[09:20:21]

Dagmar:

What do you think we use?

[09:20:46]

perlmonkey:

i'm not sure that's why I'm asking

[09:21:04]

Dagmar:

Look at the channel name

[09:21:08]

Dagmar:

It's a pretty strong hint

[09:22:00]

perlmonkey:

mythtv isnt an actual software product is it, its the name of the project which includes various software products?

[09:22:37]

Dagmar:

Look at the topic

[09:22:40]

perlmonkey:

I'm asking what PLAYERS people use

[09:22:47]

perlmonkey:

not about mythtv

[09:22:51]

Dagmar:

We use the internal one

[09:22:57]

perlmonkey:

ok

[09:23:52]

perlmonkey:

i wanted to try and test my cards ability to receive a tv signal before installing the whole mythtv thing

[09:24:17]

perlmonkey:

i just wondered if there was an mpeg capable tv viewing software product someone could recommend

[09:25:56]

Dagmar:

If you can't figure out how to play an mpg file, perhaps MythTV is a little too complex for you.

[09:26:26]

perlmonkey:

ok thanks for the sarcasm, next?

[09:34:45]

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[09:35:21]

perlmonkey:

and i tend to ignore people who have serious attitude issues and zero manners, and also like to make assumptions about people without asking

[09:35:41]

Dagmar:

Would you like some cheese with that?

[09:36:45]

Dagmar:

The wiki answers pretty much everything you've asked, and you're basically saying "my time is too valuable to waste, but yours isn't" with these questions, man.

[09:37:24]

Dagmar:

You *could* have been met with utter silence, but at least I'm telling you that the answers you seek exist and where they exist

[09:38:15]

Dagmar:

I sure as hell do not have the time to walk you through the testing procedures for whatever little card you've got there

[09:38:20]

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[09:38:51]

Dibblah:

perlmonkey: If you're using a hardware card (DVB, ivtv, etc) mplayer is good. bt878, cx88, etc tvtime.

[09:38:58]

Dagmar:

If something doesn't work like it's documentation says, _then_ I might get interested

[09:39:06]

perlmonkey:

Dibblah: thanks

[09:39:20]

** perlmonkey tries mplayer **

[09:39:33]

Zider:

I don't even watch tv in linux ;)

[09:39:52]

perlmonkey:

windows?

[09:39:55]

Zider:

nope

[09:40:02]

Zider:

plain old television set

[09:40:28]

perlmonkey:

i guess pc viewing is not substitute for a proper tv

[09:40:40]

Zider:

have no idea, never tried it

[09:40:48]

Zider:

I don't have a tuner card (yet)

[09:40:51]

Dagmar:

Monitors have an entirely different gamma profile.

[09:41:01]

Dagmar:

It takes some getting used to, and generally a bit of tweaking '

[09:41:16]

Dagmar:

TVs don't get as black as monitors can

[09:41:21]

Zider:

so far, I only use mythtv for avi files, mp3s, shoutcast streams and emulators ;)

[09:41:29]

perlmonkey:

ive used an old bt848 tuner card before

[09:41:56]

perlmonkey:

i have a bunch of old tuner cards

[09:42:10]

Dibblah:

Dagmar: Once again, that's a generalisation.

[09:42:45]

Dibblah:

And... Slightly incorrect.

[09:43:13]

Dibblah:

Sure, if you're looking at the signal levels, 0 is not true black.

[09:43:26]

Zider:

an OLED TV should get pretty black ;)

[09:44:30]

Dibblah:

I get true blacks on my DLP projector.

[09:44:40]

Dibblah:

Of course, it has to be switched off.

[09:44:43]

Zider:

;)

[09:45:24]

Zider:

I wonder when OLED TVs will start becoming cheap..

[09:45:26]

perlmonkey:

phew, i managed to record some composite video using dd

[09:45:35]

perlmonkey:

but it still has vertical lines :(

[09:46:13]

Dibblah:

perlmonkey: I can seriously suggest buying some better capture hardware. ivtv, go7007, etc. It's easier :)

[09:46:23]

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[09:46:41]

perlmonkey:

:-/ I bought a PVR-150 I was told it was one of the better cards

[09:46:45]

Dibblah:

Or, since Digital Switchover is coming (honest!), go dvb / atsc...

[09:47:58]

Bazil_:

pardon a really stupid question .. but what is the newest version out ?

[09:49:04]

Dagmar:

Bazil_: Read the topic

[09:49:21]

Bazil_:

hehe .. as i said .. stupid question . thanks

[09:49:36]

Dagmar:

Hey, at least you knew it was a dumb q

[09:50:15]

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[09:50:26]

Bazil_:

ya ..

[09:51:08]

Bazil_:

i do however have a good question also

[09:51:16]

Bazil_:

my mythbackend dies some time ..

[09:51:25]

Bazil_:

and i have to reboot to get it on again

[09:51:40]

Bazil_:

is there a way to restart mythbackend without rebooting

[09:51:57]

Dagmar:

Well, you can use a while loop

[09:51:58]

adante:

what happens when you try to start it without rebooting?

[09:52:27]

Bazil_:

it says its already started

[09:52:32]

Dagmar:

Probably safer to have a cron job just run every minute and check to see if it's running or not

[09:52:47]

Bazil_:

and if i go ps aux .. it says its not there

[09:52:51]

adante:

Dagmar: what distro are you using?

[09:52:57]

Zider:

damn, those OLED tvs really are ridiculously thin :P

[09:53:07]

Bazil_:

if i type kill -9 mythbackend .. it says its not running

[09:53:16]

adante:

Bazil_: what distro are you using?

[09:53:19]

Bazil_:

if i go mythbackend status .. it says it IS running

[09:53:20]

Bazil_:

gentoo

[09:53:30]

adante:

Bazil_: /etc/init.d/mythbackend zap;

[09:53:32]

adante:

then try restarting

[09:53:38]

Dagmar:

adante: Slackware, mainly

[09:53:55]

Dagmar:

That init script needs to be rebuilt

[09:54:06]

Bazil_:

adante .. thanks

[09:54:20]

Bazil_:

is there a way to keep check so it doesnt die

[09:54:27]

Bazil_:

or so it restarts automaticly ?

[09:55:00]

adante:

um

[09:55:20]

adante:

i do not know of anything explicitly, but as dagmar said, i'm sure there are scripts around to periodically check/restart

[09:55:40]

Bazil_:

oki

[09:55:46]

Bazil_:

have to search then

[09:56:06]

Dagmar:

If I can get this freaking fire put out that I'm working on, I'll chuck my init script up to the wiki

[09:56:28]

Dagmar:

It actually checks properly before trying to start it

[09:56:38]

Bazil_:

great ;)

[09:56:43]

adante:

looking forward to it Dagmar

[09:56:48]

Bazil_:

ill wait patiently

[09:57:51]

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[10:30:29]

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[10:37:31]

Dagmar:

Okay, fire is out

[10:38:37]

Dagmar:

I'll get this thing up into the wiki after a shower (I just added a couple of REALLY anal-retentive lines at the end) but for the moment, http://blairhouse.homeip.net/~dagmar/rc.mythbackend

[10:39:14]

Dagmar:

If your backend isn't in /usr/bin and your logfile doesn't happen to be /var/log/mythbackend.log you might have to edit it, but beyond that...

[10:39:25]

Dagmar:

The script will not let you start it twice, nor stop it twice

[10:39:46]

Dagmar:

...and it will accurately report the status if you call it with ./rc.mythbackend status

[10:40:12]

Dagmar:

It's a general purpose daemon-starting script, so you can use it for almost anything that daemonizes if you edit the obvious variables at the top

[10:40:33]

Dagmar:

(gf coming over. I gotta clean up)

[10:40:42]

Bazil_:

GREAT .. thanks ALOT

[10:40:56]

Bazil_:

this should be put under crontab then .. for every hour for ex ?

[10:43:39]

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[10:55:45]

perlmonkey:

does anyone know what "char-major* lines might refer to in modprobe.d/ivtv ?

[10:56:51]

perlmonkey:

is a modprobe.d/ivtv file even necessary?

[11:02:09]

Nipper:

Bad day. After upgrading 0.19 to 0.20 (debian-multimedia packages), the backend doesn't seem to be listening on 6543. Any ideas?

[11:03:33]

juski:

Nipper: well, is the backend running? did you run mythtv-setup after upgrading?

[11:04:46]

Nipper:

juski: Yep, it's running, and mythtv-setup seems to be fine. 6543 is the port it's supposed to listen on.

[11:05:47]

juski:

I know that

[11:05:58]

Nipper:

Nothing interesting in mythbackend.log, appears to connect to the DB okay.

[11:06:16]

juski:

did you use the debian multimedia packages before upgrading?

[11:06:31]

juski:

what might've happened is that there are still old libs lying around

[11:06:42]

Nipper:

juski: I meant that mythtv-setup was still configured to uise 6543, I checked it.

[11:07:14]

perlmonkey:

no mythtv for debian?

[11:07:18]

Nipper:

I was using the old marilliat packages I think.

[11:07:23]

juski:

run mythbackend from a terminal session to make sure it stays running

[11:07:42]

Nipper:

I guess there could be somehting old still around.

[11:07:43]

juski:

starting the init script is no guarantee it's still running ;)

[11:09:07]

Nipper:

True...

[11:09:21]

juski:

what exactly does mythfrontend say?

[11:09:31]

juski:

in the console output I mean

[11:09:31]

Nipper:

3411 ? Ssl 0:00 /usr/bin/mythbackend --daemon --logfile /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log --pidfile /var/run/mythtv/mythbackend.pid

[11:10:27]

juski:

to rule out the possibility of mixed lib versions, try 'which mythfrontend' – if it reports /usr/local/bin then I suspect you have a problem with that

[11:12:21]

Nipper:

Oh dear.

[11:12:38]

Nipper:

Segmentation fault when running the frontend or backend at the console./

[11:13:24]

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[11:21:56]

** perlmonkey uses marilliat packages **

[11:22:23]

Nipper:

backtrace makes it look like it has something to do with the nvidia drivers.

[11:23:15]

Nipper:

no debugging symbols of course :P

[11:27:50]

perlmonkey:

can I use my existing mysql server on server with local mythtv or is it better to install another mysql server on same machine as mythtv?

[11:28:53]

Nipper:

I think you only want one mysql server.

[11:29:08]

perlmonkey:

ok thanks

[11:29:23]

Nipper:

I only run a combined box tho.

[11:30:42]

perlmonkey:

sheesh, I installed another mysql now and it wont let me remove it without removing mythtv also

[11:30:53]

perlmonkey:

I guess I can stop it from running and just leave it be

[11:31:24]

Nipper:

package dependencies? Did you install just the frontend package?

[11:31:47]

perlmonkey:

aye, package dependencies

[11:32:18]

perlmonkey:

i installed backend also

[11:33:00]

perlmonkey:

perhaps I should start again

[11:33:32]

perlmonkey:

the backend wants to reside on my server where mysql is I guess

[11:33:41]

perlmonkey:

and frontend where card is

[11:33:53]

** perlmonkey removes everything **

[11:34:56]

Nipper:

Got the backend running, dpkg --purge nvidia-glx, then install again. Bizzare!

[11:35:55]

perlmonkey:

:)

[11:37:17]

Nipper:

The nvidia-glx package relinks a lot of the libraries at boot time, and for some reason mythbackend is compiled against X.

[11:37:28]

juski:

http://linpvr.org/minimyth/download/stable/la . . . .tar.bz2.md5

[11:37:31]

juski:

oops

[11:40:40]

Nipper:

But still not listening on 6543 :P

[11:41:33]

juski:

show some output from mythfrontend, or at least describe how you 'know' mythbackend isn't listening on 6543

[11:41:49]

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[11:41:52]

Nipper:

netstat -a |grep myth

[11:41:59]

Nipper:

netstat -a |grep 6543

[11:42:27]

Nipper:

last line in mybackend.log is: 2007-03–24 23:42:05.646 EITHelper: localtime offset 12:00:00

[11:42:44]

juski:

nothing obvious in the log output?

[11:43:15]

Nipper:

No, not reporting any problems.

[11:43:38]

juski:

funny, but when I run netstat -a |grep myth I don't see mythbackend there on my worky box

[11:44:00]

Nipper:

How about 6543?

[11:44:29]

directhex:

how do i specify the font size used in the program guide, system status, and other similar areas? none of the three "big", "medium", "small" font settings seem to alter it

[11:44:30]

juski:

tcp 0 0 *:6543 *:* LISTEN

[11:44:42]

juski:

directhex: some themes don't allow that to work

[11:44:56]

directhex:

aw balls

[11:45:05]

juski:

make sure your X is running at 100DPI and that you have the fonts the theme requires

[11:45:31]

directhex:

i was hoping to avoid tinkering with the DPI settings since it seems a really rather hackish solution

[11:45:34]

directhex:

never mind

[11:45:52]

juski:

it's not a hackish solution at all since the docs advise you to run X at 100dpi

[11:46:53]

Nipper:

juski: What does your backend.loh file say after the EITHelper line?

[11:47:25]

directhex:

on the bright side, using a CAM works fine with zero configuration required

[11:48:38]

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[11:56:43]

juski:

Nipper: no idea

[11:57:07]

Nipper:

mythbackend.log I mean

[12:06:37]

juski:

just post your output here in a pastebin

[12:10:02]

Milosch:

morning

[12:12:23]

Nipper:

Well, you were right. In mythtv-setup the tuner->input mappings were missing, and mythbackend wasn't starting properly.

[12:12:51]

Nipper:

With those restored it's starting correctly, the frontend can connect, and recording is working fine.

[12:13:08]

Nipper:

Thanks for the help.

[12:13:09]

juski:

well at least I got you to look in your log output

[12:13:12]

juski:

:)

[12:14:33]

Nipper:

Tho it wasn;t the log output that helped :)

[12:15:02]

Nipper:

It was running mythtv-setup and going through every option, as you suggested earlier.

[12:16:37]

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[12:22:55]

Nipper:

Which is the newest theme btw?

[12:23:34]

juski:

neon-wide is the newest I've done

[12:23:46]

juski:

not quite finished yet but it's about 98% there

[12:26:20]

Nipper:

Oooh :)

[12:26:31]

Nipper:

I just have the debain packaged ones I guess.

[12:26:42]

Nipper:

debian ratehr

[12:42:21]

** juski curses changes to minimyth's configuration file AGAIN!!!!! :-( **

[12:42:36]

juski:

damn remote isn't worky now

[12:43:31]

juski:

hrm no /etc/lircd.conf

[12:43:38]

otwin:

juski: had the same problem when updating

[12:43:52]

otwin:

works now:

[12:43:55]

otwin:

MM_LIRC_DRIVER='serial'

[12:43:55]

otwin:

MM_LIRC_REMOTE='hauppauge_R808'

[12:43:55]

otwin:

MM_LIRC_DEVICE='/dev/lirc0'

[12:43:55]

otwin:

MM_LIRC_FETCH_LIRCD_CONF='yes'

[12:43:55]

otwin:

MM_LIRC_FETCH_LIRCRC='yes'

[12:44:15]

juski:

ah I'm missing MM_LIRC_FETCH_LIRCD_CONF='yes'

[12:44:15]

otwin:

you need to tell it to get the files

[12:44:28]

juski:

I wish to hell pablo would leave stuff alone sometimes :)

[12:44:36]

otwin:

:-)

[12:45:42]

juski:

the tvoutput has moved too, I noticed

[12:47:20]

directhex:

lirc is horrible

[12:48:12]

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[12:50:22]

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[12:51:27]

juski:

yay all worky again :)

[12:51:32]

juski:

thanks for the tip otwin

[12:52:14]

otwin:

juski: np

[12:52:18]

juski:

HOW much faster is the frontend now? it's swishy compared to 0.20–21 – when the OSD moves offscreen the playback no longer wows or judders :)

[12:53:22]

juski:

bringing up the OSD menu also no longer makes playback glitch

[12:53:48]

juski:

it's either subtle changes in the -fixes code or variations brought about by using a different Xorg

[12:54:24]

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[12:55:39]

juski:

anyway – me likey a lot :D

[13:01:29]

milan:

hey i have a problem most channels are 'snow'

[13:01:35]

pat_:

juski: mine is working perfectly now, my wife has told me not to change anything for any reason

[13:01:39]

milan:

but the channels are really right

[13:01:54]

pat_:

shame is she's the one with an IT degree, and I'm the pleb here

[13:02:37]

milan:

just a few channels are working

[13:02:38]

otwin:

juski: i don't remember – used fixes for a long time. until I updated to svn 2 days ago.

[13:04:35]

perlmonkey:

i have vertical lines on my recordings :-/

[13:10:23]

perlmonkey:

For those of you that may notice a crappy picture with lines in it, that's an interlacing issue which is present because TV's and computer monitors do not use the same interlacing process. Burn the video to disc and put it in your DVD player and you will see it vanish.

[13:10:47]

perlmonkey:

anyone else experience that?

[13:11:19]

jocon:

hi

[13:11:21]

jocon:

guys

[13:11:24]

perlmonkey:

hi

[13:11:34]

perlmonkey:

seems to be quiet

[13:11:40]

jocon:

hi perlmonkey

[13:11:59]

perlmonkey:

whats up jocon

[13:12:01]

jocon:

it normal

[13:12:08]

jocon:

fine and you ?

[13:12:13]

milan:

some of my channels give 'snow' and i'm sure they are the right frequency :S HELP!

[13:13:42]

jocon:

i want to biuld a ubuntu Ubuntu Media Server but i dont know if it would be safe connected to my router that has the internet connected to ?

[13:14:01]

jocon:

did that make sence ?

[13:14:05]

perlmonkey:

not so good

[13:14:14]

Dave123:

jocon, as long as you don't let any traffic at it

[13:15:30]

jocon:

dave will i staill ba able to get to my files and use mythtv back -end ?

[13:15:44]

GreyFoxx:

perl, turn on Deinterlacing

[13:15:57]

GreyFoxx:

Settings -> TV -> Playback first screen

[13:17:09]

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[13:18:30]

jocon:

what is stoping peaple from the internet from seeing my files,

[13:19:11]

GreyFoxx:

jocon: Are you placing it directly on the outside with a real IP or is it behind a NAT box with a private IP only ?

[13:19:56]

jocon:

its connected to a router ,the router is then connected to the internet

[13:20:08]

jocon:

make sence ?

[13:20:19]

GreyFoxx:

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question of what IP it had

[13:20:34]

jocon:

stuff like that

[13:20:35]

GreyFoxx:

By "router" do you mean a nat box ?

[13:20:44]

GreyFoxx:

ok, then it's not going to be reachable by the outside world

[13:23:19]

jocon:

its called a 4 port cable /DSL broudband router

[13:23:32]

boardom:

Has anyone encountered channel listings showing as "Sconosciuto"

[13:23:37]

boardom:

for an entire week at a time?

[13:24:39]

jocon:

it has "wan" and 4 ports

[13:25:06]

GreyFoxx:

jocon: AS long as you are in the 4 lan ports you will be fine

[13:25:21]

GreyFoxx:

the router is natting your traffic, your box is not directly reachable on the net

[13:27:21]

boardom:

perhaps that was the wrong question... Does mythtv insert a standard label for channels when it can't get a proper listing from zap2it?

[13:29:40]

GreyFoxx:

boardom: well it will often say "Unknown" in english if it can't get programming data

[13:29:48]

GreyFoxx:

but nothing for channel names

[13:30:59]

boardom:

hrmm... so Sconoscciuto would be italian i imagine

[13:31:23]

boardom:

Quite annoying as it's trashed my SportsNet listing (ie: tons of missed Raptors games)

[13:31:36]

boardom:

Has there been any important updates to xmltv?

[13:31:56]

boardom:

trying to figure why there are inconsistencies between the myth listing, and the listing showed on zap2it

[13:32:00]

GreyFoxx:

I wouldn't know as I dont use xmltv

[13:32:11]

GreyFoxx:

myth doesn't use xmltv for zap2it

[13:32:15]

boardom:

oh.

[13:32:18]

juski:

if you let the partition the database resides on get full, all kinds of nasty things can happen to the database ;)

[13:32:37]

GreyFoxx:

zap2it uses the datadirect service. A direct XML feed from xzap2it

[13:32:38]

boardom:

I've run a refresh-all on the listings

[13:32:57]

boardom:

didn't seem to have any affect unfortunately

[13:33:16]

juski:

seems I also need to use MM_MINIMYTH_FETCH_MINIMYTH_SCRIPT='yes' so I can mount my media shares

[13:33:52]

Dave123:

jocon, yes if all of your other boxes are behind the box

[13:38:48]

boardom:

hah.. Sconoscuito set as default for unknown programs

[13:38:51]

jocon:

Dave123 , GreyFoxx that was very clear thank you

[13:39:04]

boardom:

throwback to when I had it as the wrong language set

[13:43:33]

boardom:

next question I guess is what could cause an UNKNOWN listing for an entire channel?

[14:00:00]

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[14:06:20]

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[14:06:25]

UserAbuse:

morning folks

[14:07:08]

UserAbuse:

I've been running 0.18 for a long time now and hit a wall. IN order to use new kernels (post 2.6.15) I need ivtv 10 and also need to start using mysql5

[14:07:24]

UserAbuse:

I suppose this will force me to use mythtv 0.20

[14:07:50]

UserAbuse:

any advice on the above mythtv0.20 mysql5 and ivtv 10 ? (ie known probs?)

[14:08:32]

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[14:09:19]

GreyFoxx:

Just run -fixes, not 0.20 release

[14:09:31]

TauPan:

hiho... has anyone the same problem as me, i.e. that the icons/buttons in mythfrontend partially disappear? E.g. when I start the frontend, I normally have two lines of buttons (blue theme) but I only see the second line and in some screens I don't see any buttons at all.

[14:09:31]

GreyFoxx:

If you update mysql you will have to update (or recompile) QT as well

[14:10:06]

TauPan:

uhm... I run 0.20 ... I thought there were only fixes for the plugins?

[14:10:31]

GreyFoxx:

TauPan: I was talking to UserAbuse, but no, -fixes is for both mythtv and plugins

[14:10:58]

TauPan:

Hm, must have overlooked it then... yes I know that you were talking to userabuse, just had to butt in :-)

[14:11:13]

GreyFoxx:

there have been several fixes in 0.20

[14:12:28]

UserAbuse:

Perhaps svn is the best moethod of downloading then ?

[14:13:17]

TauPan:

when I go to the download page, it only offers me mythtv 0.20 and mythplugins 0.20a... where should I look? svn?

[14:13:25]

GreyFoxx:

well, we don't tar up -fixes for download. So you can either grab the -fixes source with svn or maybe your distro has a package

[14:13:31]

GreyFoxx:

TauPan: yes

[14:13:38]

GreyFoxx:

http://svn.mythtv.org/

[14:13:54]

TauPan:

hmkay... would it hurt me if I use svn head instead of the fixes tag?

[14:14:18]

GreyFoxx:

*shrug* that would depend on your and your setup.

[14:14:29]

GreyFoxx:

I use svn head on all my machines with no problems

[14:14:34]

TauPan:

hm

[14:14:54]

UserAbuse:

Updated to revision 13116

[14:14:57]

TauPan:

would you recommend it?

[14:15:36]

UserAbuse:

URL: http://svn.mythtv.org/svn/branches/release-0-20-fixes/mythtv

[14:15:40]

UserAbuse:

thanks GreyFox

[14:15:55]

TauPan:

hm, I think I'll try fixes just to be on the safe side

[14:16:33]

UserAbuse:

I think I'll wnt to disable opengl

[14:17:48]

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[14:18:43]

TauPan:

I have two other problems: I can't use jack for sound output (it's using the wrong sampling rate it seems, all other jack applications work fine), and as soon as *any* part of mythtv is running, openGL applications slow to a crawl (about 1/5 to 1/10 of their usual fram rate) ... seems like mythtv (0.20) is running in a tight loop or something.

[14:21:37]

UserAbuse:

I hope this works with ivtv 10

[14:21:47]

UserAbuse:

0.18 coughed up a hairball on it

[14:22:47]

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[14:43:40]

TauPan:

this looks like it could be related to my problem http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/3259

[14:55:50]

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[15:26:18]

butterfly_:

anyone know where the contrib directory for mythtv is in ubuntu?

[15:26:28]

butterfly_:

I am trying to find mythrename.pl

[15:26:45]

Dagmar:

This might take a few seconds, but `find /usr -name mythrename.pl`

[15:27:00]

butterfly_:

I have tried that :(

[15:27:09]

butterfly_:

I can't believe the contrib dir was never included

[15:27:19]

butterfly_:

which would be rather dumb .. but trying again

[15:27:27]

Dagmar:

Well, there's _lots_ of other reasons to hate the ubuntu packages

[15:27:32]

Dagmar:

No need to dwell on just one

[15:27:37]

butterfly_:

LOL Dagmar :)

[15:28:04]

butterfly_:

I actually think this dist has a good potential to be popular .. it's my wife's fav desktop dist

[15:28:23]

butterfly_:

popular .. I mean mainstream one day :)

[15:28:34]

Dagmar:

Provided we can track down and flog/pillory the man responsible for the MythTV packages

[15:28:44]

butterfly_:

lol

[15:30:45]

TauPan:

Hm, unfortunately upgrading to 0.20-fixes didn't help with the disappearing buttons problem :-(

[15:31:00]

butterfly_:

damn .. time to go pick up daughter .. will try and pick you guys brain in a bit .. have a good day :)

[15:31:25]

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[15:32:21]

festr___:

hello

[15:32:34]

festr___:

anyone using matrox G450?

[15:42:33]

juski:

TauPan: I have an idea for you. delete the themecache directory in ~/.mythtv/

[15:44:29]

TauPan:

juski: I tried that. didn't work... but I just found the fix.

[15:45:02]

TauPan:

I set the renderer to QT and the font size to standard (default? using german locale) and now I have the buttons back.

[15:45:11]

TauPan:

*after* doing a real restart of the frontend.

[15:45:37]

TauPan:

maybe I can reproduce this problem by switching to the GL renderer again?

[15:47:43]

TauPan:

yes, as soon as I switch to the openGL renderer, the buttons disappear... this could be because of the nvidia driver... I've seen similar problems with other software (such as google earth) with certain versions of the nvidia driver.

[15:48:50]

juski:

TauPan: in the theme dir of the theme you're using make sure there's a base.xml file – if not that will be what's causing your problem & you need to upgrade your themes

[15:49:10]

TauPan:

I've just upgraded all my themes to 0.20-fixes

[15:49:18]

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[15:53:31]

TauPan:

I think there's either a problem in the nvidia driver (very likely... I hate having to use this driver) or in the way mythfrontend is using the GL api.

[15:55:38]

Dagmar:

Or you've enabled opengl-xvmc support

[15:55:41]

Dagmar:

...which is broken

[15:55:45]

TauPan:

oh

[15:55:53]

Dagmar:

Oh is that what you did then?

[15:56:00]

Dagmar:

That was a shot in the dark on my part

[15:56:00]

TauPan:

I didn't use that switch, but is it auto-enabled?

[15:56:04]

Dagmar:

nope.

[15:56:10]

Dagmar:

It's not enabled because it's known broken

[15:56:13]

TauPan:

ok

[15:56:18]

Dagmar:

You're not spawning this to another machine's display are you

[15:56:20]

TauPan:

no, I'm not using that then, I guess

[15:56:24]

TauPan:

nope, local display

[15:56:30]

Dagmar:

GL dont' worky on exported displays either

[15:56:39]

Dagmar:

It's great fun trying to use mythtv-setup here for that reason

[15:56:42]

TauPan:

yes, I know that :)

[16:00:09]

TauPan:

Hm, mythfrontend still hangs for a few seconds occasionally.

[16:00:16]

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[16:00:24]

TauPan:

(that's a different problem that I didn't report yet)

[16:01:08]

juski:

TauPan: so despite you upgrading your themes to 0.20-fixes did you check the theme dir for the base.xml file?

[16:01:44]

TauPan:

mom

[16:01:46]

TauPan:

(not yet)

[16:03:06]

juski:

yup

[16:03:47]

juski:

ah wait there's no base.xml in titivillus here

[16:03:51]

juski:

maybe that's the problem

[16:03:52]

TauPan:

only default and G.A.N.T have base.xml files, the other themes haven't... but (e.g.) blue and Titivillus still work with the Qt renderer

[16:04:16]

juski:

yeah well they will work with the qt renderer without a base.xml file

[16:04:37]

juski:

FWIW I never bother with the gl renderer. I hate the crummy fade

[16:04:44]

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[16:05:17]

TauPan:

oh, so that's the difference

[16:05:41]

TauPan:

I thought I could actually spare some cpu power by putting some of the rendering workload to the GPU

[16:05:46]

juski:

pfft

[16:05:55]

Dagmar:

hhaha

[16:05:56]

TauPan:

Hey, what do I know! :)

[16:06:02]

juski:

it's not like the gui needs much grunt to draw

[16:06:06]

** stuarta knows nothing :) **

[16:06:08]

juski:

afternoon stuarta :)

[16:06:13]

Dagmar:

It's a good idea, but nothing in Linux has gotten quite that kinky yet

[16:06:13]

stuarta:

afternoon juski

[16:06:41]

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[16:09:29]

juski:

blinkin nora! 320GB HDD now under 65 quids :)

[16:10:18]

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[16:10:27]

juski:

or 500GB for about 80 squids :) mmmm nice

[16:12:49]

SirTuxalot:

Good morning, I am in the process of building a mythbox with 2 pvr-250's my backend is segfaulting and I get this error "Card 1 does not have a hostname defined." I have ran the setup as it asks but I can not find anything concerning a hostname for the cards. Can someone tell me what I am missing. Thank you.

[16:13:23]

stuarta:

thats a new one...

[16:15:07]

SirTuxalot:

thats what i like to hear :)

[16:15:19]

nasa:

SirTuxalot: r u sure u have the computer's hostname set? Only thing I would/could look for given the message

[16:17:33]

SirTuxalot:

my /etc/conf.d/hostname reads HOSTNAME="mythbox"

[16:18:05]

SirTuxalot:

my /etc/hosts reads 127.0.0.1 mythbox.home-linux.net mythbox localhost.localdomain localhost

[16:18:44]

SirTuxalot:

should I also put the network address in along with the loopback address?

[16:18:49]

nasa:

hmmm.... that looks fine.

[16:19:32]

nasa:

Is ivtv finding your cards?

[16:19:56]

SirTuxalot:

the box is running gentoo and the gentoo-wiki doesnt mention anything about this

[16:20:21]

SirTuxalot:

yes, the setup for myth was able to probe for the cards

[16:21:01]

SirTuxalot:

is there another way i can check ivtv? I dont have coax connected yet

[16:22:44]

nasa:

look at your log files in /var/log/... (It may be different location on your box, I haven't tried gentoo yet)

[16:22:46]

TauPan:

gah... my box just spontaneously rebooted... Disabled AGP for now...

[16:26:20]

nasa:

brb

[16:27:42]

SirTuxalot:

okay, I found in dmesg what looks to be what your looking for

[16:28:07]

SirTuxalot:

it sees both cards ivtv0 and 1

[16:28:33]

SirTuxalot:

both cards seem to initialize fine

[16:29:47]

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[16:30:02]

toad_:

*** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption (fast): 0x00002aaaaee5cf3f ***

[16:30:11]

Dagmar:

yay!

[16:30:19]

Dagmar:

Oh wait, that's bad, isn't it...

[16:30:47]

toad_:

using the debian package 0.20-svn20070223–0.0

[16:30:55]

toad_:

which presumably is the SVN as of 23/02/07

[16:31:11]

Dagmar:

Probably. They should really learn about r-numbers

[16:31:19]

toad_:

r-numbers?

[16:31:21]

toad_:

oh yeah

[16:31:26]

Dagmar:

If it's not happening regularly, I'd just wait for them to update it

[16:31:27]

toad_:

svn rev numbers

[16:31:35]

toad_:

well it causes it to crash quite frequently

[16:31:39]

Dagmar:

Ouch

[16:31:50]

toad_:

according to google this indicates buffer overruns or similar errors

[16:31:57]

toad_:

suggests valgrind'ing it

[16:32:18]

** toad_ wonders if it would be safe to downgrade to the stable version? **

[16:32:25]

toad_:

(the testing version to be precise)?

[16:32:47]

Dagmar:

Well, I've got a few weeks continuous uptime (barring hard crashes caused by the frontend) 12793

[16:32:49]

toad_:

it's only crashing once a week o r so

[16:33:06]

toad_:

Dagmar: with an SVN build or with a released build?

[16:33:10]

Dagmar:

Mind you this is r12793 from 0.20-fixes

[16:34:01]

TauPan:

Dagmar: hard crashes of the backend or the whole box?

[16:34:21]

toad_:

Dagmar: well, is it safe to keep the database and the files, and install the testing version (which is plain 0.21 iirc) ?

[16:35:25]

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[16:35:38]

Dagmar:

TauPan: hard crashes of the whole darn box

[16:35:44]

Dagmar:

TauPan: It's pretty impressive

[16:36:04]

TauPan:

I daresay that this can and should not be the fault of mythtv.

[16:36:12]

toad_:

:)

[16:36:16]

Dagmar:

toad_: If you upgrade forwards, upgrading backwards later may be "problematic"

[16:36:28]

TauPan:

I just had my box reboot on me, that's why I'm interested.

[16:36:29]

toad_:

Dagmar: :|

[16:36:33]

toad_:

i can live with it :|

[16:36:41]

Dagmar:

TauPan: I'd like to say that, but it's a rather predictable problem or two on a completely stable machine

[16:36:45]

toad_:

alternatively i could upgrade to latest SVN manually ...

[16:37:07]

Dagmar:

One of them is just *fun*. Try to select a program from the past in the program guide and *splat* it dies

[16:37:32]

TauPan:

oops... I think I'll try that one, after saving all my data...

[16:37:36]

Dagmar:

That preview window is still capable of boning the system ata moments notice

[16:38:09]

Dagmar:

It's interaction with the video is pretty much the only reason it's taking the whole machine down

[16:38:54]

Dagmar:

I've not had any "happens at random times" crashes in a while now

[16:39:00]

toad_:

would it help if i compiled myth from SVN with valgrind?

[16:40:12]

Dagmar:

It would probably be more effective than stroking it gently and speaking in a soothing voice, but beyond that I can't say

[16:40:17]

TauPan:

Dagmar: I'd like to know whether you use nvidia (on amd) by any chance.

[16:40:22]

Dagmar:

Oh yes

[16:40:26]

TauPan:

ok

[16:40:35]

Dagmar:

I know it's more xvmc fun

[16:40:50]

TauPan:

tried disabling AGP?

[16:41:06]

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[16:41:09]

Dagmar:

That would make it somewhat hard to watch vidoe

[16:41:12]

TauPan:

(yes, graphics get very slow, but it's just for testing)

[16:41:26]

toad_:

hmmm it doesn't work with NPTL...

[16:41:59]

TauPan:

no, you can still watch video, no problem

[16:42:11]

Dagmar:

I could do that, but it wouldn't really tell me anything I didn't already kow

[16:42:20]

TauPan:

it just practically disables 3D acceleration

[16:42:36]

TauPan:

you mean that the nvidia drivers are crappy?

[16:42:43]

Dagmar:

No, that there's a fatal bug there

[16:43:24]

Dagmar:

Extending the adage about "if you break it you get to keep both pieces" a bit, at least this way I don't have any broken pieces to throw away

[16:44:38]

TauPan:

a fatal bug where?

[16:44:41]

Dagmar:

Besides which it provides good testing for the stuff I've written to handle the cases where there's a sudden power failure

[16:45:30]

Dagmar:

The where is unimportant to me, since I stand about a 3% chance of fixing it

[16:45:44]

TauPan:

I see.

[16:46:23]

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[16:46:34]

Dagmar:

It's almost been long enough for me to do another pull of 0.20-fixes and this was a new one, so I'll worry about investigating and reporting it if it's still there

[16:47:33]

TauPan:

I just tried, btw... I *can* select a show from the past.

[16:47:44]

Dagmar:

TauPan: and you're using which codebase?

[16:47:55]

TauPan:

0.20-fixes from... eh... 15 minutes ago

[16:47:59]

Dagmar:

Well there you go

[16:48:04]

** toad_ will likewise ignore the *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption (fast): 0x00002aaaaee5cf3f *** **

[16:48:05]

toad_:

for now

[16:48:38]

Dagmar:

I generally wait a month or so between pulls

[16:48:42]

toad_:

most likely it's due to a buffer overrun/other pointer issue in myth... but debian's valgrind doesn't support NPTL properly, so it's not immediately obvious how to attack it

[16:48:48]

toad_:

so i'll leave it for now

[16:49:38]

Dagmar:

Basically, I'm looking for another little plateau of not having to dance around this version being dependent on that version and so forth

[16:50:09]

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[16:50:11]

Dagmar:

That and I'm trying to get a bloody package set of GNOME 2.18 working here

[16:50:22]

Dagmar:

Otherwise I would have done all that this weekend

[16:50:40]

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[16:51:50]

TauPan:

I'd really like to have a fullscreen-toggle key for the frontend... that's all I need to integrate mythtv into my desktop setup.

[16:52:27]

SirTuxalot:

nasa: I set up my box according to the gentoo-wiki: Mythtv HOWTO, I am not sure what differences there are between them though

[16:53:06]

TauPan:

because I sometimes like to have a small tv window in one corner of my desktop

[16:53:22]

TauPan:

I've read there was such a key once but it's gone for good.

[16:58:00]

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[17:04:04]

nasa:

SirTuxalot: Not sure what could be wrong then.... Usually these seem to be pretty easy to setup. I would take a closer look at the logs and see if there's any other clues there.

[17:09:04]

SirTuxalot:

alright, i will do that, hopefully something sparks something

[17:11:43]

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[17:21:56]

TauPan:

Ok, that was *fun*.

[17:22:37]

TauPan:

My box just froze on me while watching tv with mythtv (AGP disabled!). And since something messed with the clock, all my harddisk partitions wanted to be fscked.

[17:23:05]

TauPan:

So I'm afraid I can't continue using mythtv, because of that.

[17:23:23]

TauPan:

(I'm using it on my desktop box, I don't have a dedicated box set up for it.)

[17:28:36]

Dagmar:

You could always just disable interval-based fscking on the filesystems that don't need it, you know

[17:29:07]

TauPan:

well, I can also press ctrl-c when it's inconvenient to wait for the fsck

[17:29:07]

gardengnome:

you could just fix your box ;)

[17:29:50]

TauPan:

gardengnome: I'd be interested what in particular you have in mind here.

[17:31:11]

gardengnome:

TauPan: nothing in particular. it could be caused by a bad PSU or broken RAM.. or some broken drivers

[17:31:13]

blahmartinblah:

Hi, can someone help me with where to find mythtv logs?

[17:31:37]

blahmartinblah:

My frontend is crashing during startup.

[17:31:43]

gardengnome:

TauPan: your capture card might be messed up, or your PCI bus. i wouldn't know :)

[17:31:50]

TauPan:

yes, it's probably a bug in the nvidia drivers that mythtv triggers here, and it appears that Dagmar and I have very similar problems (both on nvidia + amd)

[17:32:03]

TauPan:

you did read the complete conversation, didn't you?

[17:34:46]

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[17:44:38]

juski:

blahmartinblah: if you start mythfrontend from a terminal you'll see some output there

[17:45:00]

juski:

you can also use --help to illuminate the possible logging options ;)

[17:45:00]

WattoDaToydarian:

Hey guys, I'm having a problem loading a recording with mythfrontend, it says "GetRecordBasename found no entry

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[18:04:48]

banyan:

All this technology just so I can fill up 30 GB of drive space with Surreal Life marathons.

[18:06:19]

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[18:07:59]

Dagmar:

In the interests of humanity, I will now hack the MythTV SVN server to insert trojan code to erase banyan's filesystem.

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[18:16:57]

dj_segfault:

Ouch! My FC6 install just upgraded Myth to mythtv-backend-0.20–154.fc6.at, and after that all my scheduled recordings went away!!! Is this a known problem? Which database table are they stored in?

[18:18:10]

banyan:

It'll be terrible now but eventually I will thank you.

[18:18:16]

banyan:

:-)

[18:30:15]

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[18:30:25]

perlmonkey:

hi

[18:31:34]

perlmonkey:

does the mysql db for mythtv need to be on the same machine as the backend?

[18:31:47]

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[18:34:12]

Dagmar:

perlmonkey: nope.

[18:34:22]

Dagmar:

perlmonkey: I'mma give you a URL that will help you

[18:34:26]

perlmonkey:

thanks

[18:34:45]

Dagmar:

perlmonkey: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Executive_Overview

[18:34:57]

** perlmonkey reads **

[18:35:05]

Dagmar:

I don't wanna hear any sass about making people read documentation, because I wrote all but about three sentences on that page

[18:35:29]

Dagmar:

It's meant to get you up to speed with how the thing works in a reasonably non-technical fashion, which should save you a LOT of headaches

[18:35:34]

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[18:36:32]

spiderworm:

when i try to run mythtv-setup as user mythtv, i get an error like: Xlib: connection to 0:0 refused by server

[18:37:06]

spiderworm:

does anyone know how i give mythtv permissions to start up mythtv-setup when another user is logged in?

[18:37:25]

perlmonkey:

phew this is what i have been looking for, i was finking it hard to picture the whole mythtv setup and how things work together

[18:38:00]

Dagmar:

perlmonkey: Yeah, figuring out how it all fit together threw me for a couple of days so I figured I better do something to make that hurdle go away

[18:38:33]

Dagmar:

spiderworm: Why don't you just start X as the mythtv user to make your life easier?

[18:38:55]

perlmonkey:

:)

[18:40:44]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: In a shell of the user that started the X session, enter "xhost localhost".

[18:43:04]

frink_:

hey all

[18:43:23]

dj_segfault:

Ouch! My FC6 install just upgraded Myth to 0.20–154.fc6.at, and after that all my scheduled recordings went away!!! Is this a known problem? It looks like the "record" table was the one affected. I still have my schedule.

[18:43:45]

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[18:43:46]

frink_:

doea anybody know if the TerraTec 2400 Dual DVB-T tuner card works oright ?

[18:44:23]

banyan:

I'm just 4 days into the reinstall of my crashed system but it seems to be working very well.

[18:45:49]

banyan:

3x400 gigs of raid 5 software hard drive

[18:46:12]

spiderworm:

argh

[18:46:37]

frink_:

banyan: nice :) Whar country are you in?

[18:46:38]

spiderworm:

i just upgraded from dapper to edgy and now mythfrontend throws "cannot connect to backend server"

[18:46:52]

spiderworm:

ip, port, mysql information is all correct

[18:47:18]

spiderworm:

in fact, mythbackend log shows successful connections to mysql

[18:47:28]

spiderworm:

but it shows no record of frontend trying to connect to backend

[18:47:41]

spiderworm:

maybe a firewall is blocking the port or something?

[18:48:22]

ille:

frink_: sounds like it does not work http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/index.php?showtopic=51323

[18:48:47]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Are you using a firewall config program like firestarter?

[18:48:56]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: no

[18:49:09]

perlmonkey:

why does the mysql db need so much disk space

[18:49:26]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: installing as we speak

[18:49:33]

perlmonkey:

1GB seems rather a lot for a db, whats actually stored there

[18:49:44]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Run "tail -f /var/log/messages" in one window then try starting up the frontend. If you see iptables entries, then that's your problem

[18:50:11]

frink_:

ille: Thanks, thats what I gathered... linuxtv.org had a report of some drivers being developed but.. :(

[18:50:22]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: I really like firestarter these days for controlling iptables/

[18:50:46]

frink_:

Are there any duel tuner DVB cards supported (apart fromt he Hauppage one) ?

[18:50:50]

perlmonkey:

my setup may not capable enough to do mythtv :(

[18:51:19]

ille:

frink_: I guess there will be a driver sometime.. my terratec cinergy 1200 DVB-C works extreemly well.

[18:51:49]

frink_:

ille: Ahh thanks, I'll see if they are the same chipset, if so, I can prob handle botching something..

[18:52:14]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: no luck... no messages whatsoever

[18:53:31]

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[18:54:52]

ille:

frink_: I guess you have to go for the hauppauge NOVA-T 500 if you want dual tuners.

[18:55:10]

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[18:55:53]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Try running "tcpdump" in one window. Oh, and just to cover the stupid stuff, are you positive the backend is currently running?

[18:55:55]

banyan:

Canada, frink_

[18:56:16]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: yes 9225 ? 00:00:00 mythbackend

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Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : +v xris

[18:56:21]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Do you have mythweb set up? Does that work

[18:56:38]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: no mythweb

[18:57:07]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Could the error be a bogon and it really can't get to the database instead?

[18:57:22]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: What about myth's logfile?

[18:57:30]

frink_:

ille: Yeah, but I think they are just two of their USB tuners on a PCi card. The PCI card is like 80UKP and the USB tuners are about 16UKP – So I'll just get two external ones then ;-)

[18:57:36]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: log shows successful db connections, plus i can log in manually with same un/pass

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[18:58:12]

** frink_ feeds his son more peanut butter and jam sanis **

[18:58:43]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: tcpdump is outputting like crazy... should i grep it for myth or something?

[18:58:46]

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[18:59:07]

dj_segfault:

frink_: Yes, another Mythtv plus: No more sandwiches shoved into the VCR tape slot.

[18:59:31]

hjohnson:

dj_segfault: no, but the drink holder might get damaged.

[19:00:07]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Do you have Ethereal, or some other slightly more user-friendly program? If not. then grepping the output might work. Is this a server on the internets?

[19:00:07]

ille:

dj_segfault: my son has never seen a VCR :)

[19:00:49]

spiderworm:

that's the ip as i have it in mythtv-setup as well

[19:01:51]

xris:

spiderworm: could you reiterate your problem? I missed it.

[19:01:54]

dj_segfault:

spiderworm: Hmm. So what's all that traffic? if you tcpdump | head -50 to just see a few lines, what's in there?

[19:02:32]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: im doing this on a laptop upstairs via vnc and the machine is downstairs

[19:02:48]

Dagmar:

hahah

[19:02:53]

spiderworm:

the machine is hard to work with because the overscan on the tv is so huge :)

[19:02:55]

Dagmar:

tcpdump == SPAM then

[19:03:16]

Dagmar:

You'll want to tell it to not show you any of the traffic from VNC then

[19:03:29]

Dagmar:

tcpdump -n -v not port (whatever port VNC is on)

[19:03:38]

spiderworm:

dj_segfault: nothing i grep on tcpdump is turning anything up

[19:03:46]

spiderworm:

wife is yelling at me, i gotta go anyways

[19:03:50]

spiderworm:

thanks fro the help guys

[19:03:53]

spiderworm:

sorry i cant stay

[19:04:34]

Mode for #mythtv-users by ChanServ!ChanServ@services. : -v jams

[19:08:00]

frink_:

spiderworm: good luck!

[19:08:06]

frink_:

(with the wife :)

[19:09:36]

perlmonkey:

damn

[19:10:29]

banyan:

And I finally got around to installing my 500, so I have 3 tuners now, and my hard drive space, in 4 days, has about 300 MB filled.

[19:10:49]

banyan:

I mean 300 GB.

[19:13:56]

dj_segfault:

About my problem that I mentioned (I upgraded, and all my programs to be recorded got deleted): I think I figured out what happened. ivtv didn't get upgraded to the new kernel, so when I rebooted, mythbackend said "Oh, that card doesn't exist anymore. Let me remove all it's programming"!! DOH!! This is just a guess

[19:14:04]

dj_segfault:

That really sucks though.

[19:14:20]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[19:14:53]

perlmonkey:

I only have 36GB of space to play with, I have 2 free slots in my raid but im limited to the capacity of scsi (and budget) drives

[19:15:10]

perlmonkey:

but I will probably not record much, just the occasional program

[19:15:32]

perlmonkey:

for archiving purposes on cd, should be still userable?

[19:16:41]

xris:

perlmonkey: yup.

[19:16:45]

xris:

esp. if you watch/delete

[19:16:53]

perlmonkey:

my main concern is more about how much storage space the mysql db will need, as my mysql server is running on a 1.3GB partition which at present only has 300MB free

[19:17:01]

perlmonkey:

xris: cool

[19:17:09]

perlmonkey:

i will watch delete ya

[19:17:31]

perlmonkey:

why does mythtv need such massive db?

[19:17:44]

perlmonkey:

for a light user it wouldnt be so large surely, a few megs?

[19:18:49]

perlmonkey:

I have a remote server I could use on the net in a datacenter which has 100's of GB's, but it wouldnt be a good idea to use a remote db I guess?

[19:19:38]

xris:

how fast is the connection?

[19:19:55]

hjohnson:

i wonder how long until someone hacks the appleTV to be a mythfrontend

[19:20:23]

perlmonkey:

my connection to net is 1mbit, my connection at datacenter is 10mbit

[19:20:47]

xris:

1mbit probably isn't fast enough

[19:20:52]

perlmonkey:

ok

[19:21:32]

perlmonkey:

has to be local then, i just hope the space requirement doesnt run away

[19:22:08]

perlmonkey:

i could install another mysql server in my workstation i guess and buy a large capacity ide drive dedicated to backend, maybe thats a more sensible setup

[19:22:31]

sid3windr:

perlmonkey: you could always move the myth db to the raid5 array, no?

[19:22:45]

perlmonkey:

can you do that?

[19:22:52]

perlmonkey:

that would be a good solution

[19:24:37]

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[19:26:11]

sid3windr:

yeah

[19:26:32]

sid3windr:

if you move /var/lib/mysql/mythconverg to /home/storage/mysql/mythconverg or so you can just symlink the directories

[19:26:33]

perlmonkey:

cool

[19:26:35]

sid3windr:

it's not pretty

[19:26:37]

sid3windr:

but it works fine

[19:26:48]

perlmonkey:

:) wow

[19:26:49]

xris:

perlmonkey: $60–70 for a 250G drive these days.. holds a LOT of tv.

[19:26:49]

ByteChanger:

lo all

[19:26:54]

frink_:

hey

[19:26:59]

sid3windr:

a few years ago I had /var/lib/mysql linked to /home/mysql because /var was pretty small

[19:27:01]

xris:

could always use a usb/firewire drive, too

[19:27:03]

perlmonkey:

true

[19:27:31]

xris:

sid3windr: never understood why people still use that old segregation partition scheme...

[19:27:50]

sid3windr:

hehe

[19:27:55]

sid3windr:

/dev/md3 559G 462G 95G 84% /

[19:27:58]

sid3windr:

I got over it ;)

[19:28:09]

perlmonkey:

my /home is mounted on an NFS raid system to allow max space to users

[19:28:32]

perlmonkey:

phew

[19:28:37]

perlmonkey:

559GB!

[19:28:51]

perlmonkey:

my raid is 36GB :P

[19:29:44]

xris:

perlmonkey: you certainly don't need raid for mythtv

[19:29:50]

banyan:

/dev/md0 769156144 300401052 429684220 42% /var

[19:30:25]

perlmonkey:

cool, maybe just use some raid space for the mysql db, and then invest in a decent size SATA drive for backend

[19:30:54]

frink_:

sid3windr: Yeah I do that on my company boxes, the mysql datgabase dir is linked to the iSCSI arrays

[19:30:54]

sid3windr:

hehe

[19:31:02]

sid3windr:

/dev/mapper/storage-storage

[19:31:03]

sid3windr:

2.4T 2.3T 136G 95% /home/storage

[19:31:16]

sid3windr:

that's my mythbackend server ;/

[19:31:20]

perlmonkey:

ideally i would like to have my backend on the server where my mysql is running, and make use of dual CPU, but its not practical as my server is nowhere near my cable box

[19:31:26]

sid3windr:

and about 10MB of it is mythtv stuff :P

[19:31:29]

frink_:

sid3windr: Thats disgusting.

[19:31:45]

frink_:

sid3windr: Whats worse is the 95% ! What you got on there?

[19:31:49]

sid3windr:

for a home storage box? ya, I guess it is

[19:31:59]

sid3windr:

well, backups, and "backups" ;)

[19:32:00]

xris:

I have enough trouble filling up my 500gb drive with music, videos, photos, recordings, etc.

[19:32:07]

xris:

s/drive/array/

[19:32:15]

perlmonkey:

phew

[19:32:19]

banyan:

sounds like you don't need to erase the old shows very fast.

[19:32:27]

sid3windr:

indeed heh

[19:32:30]

frink_:

sid3windr: I keep all my "backups" on the office servers, I have 16Mb/s DSL at home so they get here reasonably fast..

[19:32:34]

perlmonkey:

dont you make archival copies?

[19:32:44]

sid3windr:

well it's getting full :|

[19:32:52]

frink_:

but like when you can get 400GB for < 100 UKP....

[19:32:54]

sid3windr:

I should get my dvd burner ready for a 96 hour session =)

[19:33:00]

perlmonkey:

why not just burn a load of dvds and free up some space

[19:33:06]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[19:33:10]

banyan:

you doing the hardware raid or software? or just lvm?

[19:33:14]

sid3windr:

software

[19:33:19]

sid3windr:

3 raid5's combined with lvm

[19:33:24]

frink_:

sid3windr: You could prob buy more disk space cheaper than enough DVDs to write that to!

[19:33:25]

sid3windr:

5x320 4x200 4x250

[19:33:43]

sid3windr:

it's full

[19:33:47]

sid3windr:

I'll have to swap out disks to expand it :)

[19:34:03]

perlmonkey:

eek

[19:34:10]

sid3windr:

but I'm not planning on that

[19:34:16]

sid3windr:

I still have 100 or so dvd's here

[19:34:20]

frink_:

last year somebody pwned a company Win XP box (not mine) and left 400Gb of stuff on it for me – bless em..

[19:34:25]

sid3windr:

heheh

[19:34:37]

sid3windr:

our company xp workstations don't have that much diskspace ;)

[19:34:56]

banyan:

Why don't you just erase some stuff?

[19:34:57]

frink_:

sid3windr: I mograted my DVD collection to disk last year.

[19:35:12]

frink_:

banyan: Why erase when 400GB is 90 quid :)

[19:35:14]

sid3windr:

banyan: either I still want to see it, or I may want to see it again as it was good :)

[19:35:52]

sid3windr:

frink_: meh, that would be <2x90 – I have 0 systems without raid these days, my windows box has a 3ware sata controller and my mythfrontend box has 2x 80G in softraid

[19:35:52]

banyan:

Cause personally I hate mucking around with the guts of my computer.

[19:36:10]

sid3windr:

oh, that storage box has 15 frontal hotswap cage thingies :p

[19:36:19]

sid3windr:

no guts anymore for me =)

[19:36:21]

banyan:

Besides, what kind of case do you have with enough drive bays and enough coolage?

[19:36:39]

sid3windr:

supermicro 4U rackmount with 3 5-in-3 hotswap sata enclosures

[19:36:43]

frink_:

sid3windr: Raid 0 ?

[19:36:49]

sid3windr:

raid 1 of course

[19:36:53]

sid3windr:

I don't trust hard drives :)

[19:37:09]

frink_:

sid3windr: yup..

[19:37:13]

banyan:

I decided raid 5. Then I don't need to worry about stuff until a drive actually dies.

[19:37:24]

xris:

banyan: assuming you only ever lose 1.

[19:37:32]

xris:

raid5 + hot spare is usually enough, though

[19:37:36]

banyan:

well, that and I already had 3 400 gig machines.

[19:37:37]

sid3windr:

at work I have just about everything on raid6

[19:37:46]

sid3windr:

which saved my ass already once when 2 drives died at the same time

[19:37:49]

banyan:

I mean 400 gig drives.

[19:37:50]

xris:

sid3windr: nice that cards are finally starting to support it.

[19:37:59]

sid3windr:

yes, areca rawks.

[19:38:05]

frink_:

banyan: my company is about to chuck out the NetApp arrays (support costs too much) then will be 6TB of very good well protected RAID..... I'll put it in the basement :)

[19:38:12]

sid3windr:

hehe

[19:38:17]

frink_:

Thats if I can arrange it's removal from the asst register...

[19:38:19]

banyan:

What happened to kill 2 drives at once?

[19:38:26]

sid3windr:

I dunno

[19:38:30]

sid3windr:

they were from the same batch I guess

[19:38:35]

sid3windr:

both equally broken :)

[19:38:35]

frink_:

banyan: 2 dead drives on Raid 5 ?

[19:38:45]

** xris tries to remember the discussions about areca at work.. something about "works like shit in linux" I think **

[19:39:55]

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[19:40:04]

frink_:

i've given up on tryig to select a good Linux DVB tuner – any suggestions?

[19:40:12]

xris:

or not. looks like we do sell it in some of our storage servers.

[19:40:17]

sid3windr:

xris: mm, works great in linux for me, with excellent throughput :)

[19:40:28]

xris:

sid3windr: I'm probably confusing it with other stuff.

[19:40:32]

sid3windr:

3ware is shit though.

[19:40:40]

banyan:

ah, and expensive shit!

[19:40:42]

sid3windr:

works great until a drive dies and its onboard cpu can't keep up calculating parity

[19:40:42]

xris:

sid3windr: really? 9650 works great

[19:41:05]

xris:

but I don't spend enough time hanging out with proddev anymore to remember which cards are having trouble, etc.

[19:41:06]

sid3windr:

7xxx 8xxx 9000 at least, xris – never used 9650, i've completely switched to areca :)

[19:41:31]

sid3windr:

haha

[19:41:39]

sid3windr:

myea, but not too much to do about that I think :)

[19:41:41]

dj_segfault:

I got my database restored now and I'm up and running. Thanks, Bye.

[19:41:54]

frink_:

dj_segfault: Happy viewing!

[19:41:58]

sid3windr:

dj_segfault: enjoy :)

[19:42:17]

Kritter:

the only tuner my local shop has is an Sapphire Theatrix Theatre 550 Pro which is an ati chip, but I can't seem to establish if it's a supported chip (with hardware encoding) or not...

[19:42:36]

Kritter:

only searches come up with forums.

[19:42:48]

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[19:42:50]

Kritter:

and no one seems to be saying yes or no directly. Does anyone know?

[19:42:55]

frink_:

Kritter: www.linuxtv.org has a good database

[19:43:12]

frink_:

its quite depressing

[19:43:14]

sid3windr:

I got a pvr500 simply because I knew it worked

[19:43:15]

Kritter:

looking...

[19:43:26]

frink_:

only one duel tuner card seems to work, and it's hauppauge, so it's shit :(

[19:43:27]

xris:

Kritter: you want analog recording? get a pvr-150

[19:43:29]

sid3windr:

and a pinnacle 300i for dvb-t because I read somewhere it worked ;)

[19:43:30]

Kritter:

yeah they don't have the 250, or the 500. or even the 150.

[19:43:54]

Kritter:

only reason I'm even looking at this one is it's what they have in stock.

[19:44:00]

xris:

Kritter: sometimes it's worth using mailorder and waiting a few days.

[19:44:05]

Kritter:

wanted 2 250s.

[19:45:10]

xris:

Kritter: 250 was EOL'd like 2 years ago when the 150 came out

[19:45:28]

Kritter:

but the lists seem to bitch aobu tthe 150 being poor quality

[19:45:35]

Kritter:

and the screwed up package

[19:45:43]

Kritter:

withthe 1600's hiding in them.

[19:45:51]

doc|home:

Kritter: why not buy a card online?

[19:45:59]

xris:

no clue. mine worked great (I use firewire now), but it *was* one of the early ones.

[19:46:00]

doc|home:

they tend to be a lot cheaper that way

[19:46:02]

Kritter:

international shipping.

[19:46:19]

doc|home:

Kritter: I bet you'd save money, even with shipping :/ where are you?

[19:47:43]

Kritter:

well I'm in a major commercial metropolis so I should be able to find it locally.

[19:48:08]

Kritter:

or rather something.

[19:48:58]

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[19:48:59]

banyan:

areca huh? I just bought a promise 2-port SATA card and use software raid.

[19:49:06]

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[19:49:13]

xris:

banyan: areca isn't cheap

[19:49:24]

xris:

enterprise grade gear like 3ware.

[19:49:29]

sid3windr:

ye

[19:49:40]

sid3windr:

areca 16port we use is 800 eur+

[19:49:43]

banyan:

Well, 300 pounds if it works right is reasonable.

[19:49:45]

sid3windr:

areca 4port "only" 325

[19:50:13]

banyan:

how many pounds per euro?

[19:50:14]

xris:

yup. looks right inline with what we change.. $925 or so for the 16 port

[19:50:41]

xris:

slightly more for pcie

[19:50:47]

sid3windr:

banyan: 1.5 :)

[19:50:53]

sid3windr:

err

[19:50:54]

sid3windr:

0.6

[19:51:00]

frink_:

only one duel tuner card seems to work, and it's hauppauge, so it's shit :(

[19:51:14]

xris:

frink_: pvr-500 works fine

[19:51:27]

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[19:51:43]

hjohnson:

frink_: what's wrong with the Hauppauge cards?

[19:52:26]

frink_:

hjohnson: I duno, I have a USB version and it seems slow/buggy..

[19:52:39]

hjohnson:

frink_: well, that's USB

[19:52:48]

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[19:53:00]

hjohnson:

frink_: the PCI cards are good pieces of work, fi you want to record analog SD

[19:53:07]

banyan:

that's 1.5 euros per pound?

[19:53:12]

frink_:

i thought the 500 was two usb chipe on a pci card?

[19:53:25]

opello:

not usb

[19:53:27]

frink_:

hjohnson: Heh, I Want DVB innit.

[19:53:33]

Kritter:

it's two tuners on the card... nothing to do with usb

[19:53:41]

sid3windr:

banyan: yes

[19:53:52]

frink_:

Kritter: you have one?

[19:54:01]

sid3windr:

the 500 is like 2 350's I think?

[19:54:03]

hjohnson:

well, i'm now back to dino-diesel.. we'll see if I get a mileage difference

[19:54:06]

sid3windr:

and I have one

[19:54:06]

banyan:

the 500 gets set up as though it is a pair of cards.

[19:54:13]

xris:

sid3windr: it's exactly 2 x 150

[19:54:18]

sid3windr:

ivtv0: Initialized WinTV PVR 500 (unit #1), card #0

[19:54:20]

frink_:

I am interested in the DVB-T 500

[19:54:22]

sid3windr:

ivtv1: Initialized WinTV PVR 500 (unit #2), card #1

[19:54:37]

xris:

350 is also EOL and a waste of money when you consider that you're paying like $75 extra just for tv-out that works as good as a $20 nvidia card

[19:54:38]

Kritter:

no... but I've been ploting a mythtv box for months.

[19:54:38]

sid3windr:

xris: dunno what the diff is between 150 and 350 :)

[19:54:44]

sid3windr:

but I thought the 150 was newer than the 500

[19:54:45]

banyan:

350 has tv out.

[19:54:48]

Kritter:

so I know what a 500 vs a usb device is.

[19:54:49]

sid3windr:

ah

[19:54:54]

xris:

sid3windr: 350 is a generation or two older, and has tv out.

[19:54:55]

banyan:

150 is like 250 with a few hardware diffs.

[19:55:11]

banyan:

350 is functionally just fine.

[19:55:16]

xris:

Kritter: what country are you in?

[19:55:23]

Kritter:

Canada.

[19:55:31]

banyan:

me too!

[19:55:48]

xris:

international shipping to canada from amazon or newegg shouldn't be that bad

[19:56:36]

frink_:

anybody here in the uk?

[19:56:44]

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[20:00:38]

** perlmonkey puts hand up **

[20:01:05]

Kritter:

found a place with 3 500s.

[20:01:13]

hjohnson:

the 500 is just two 150s on a single PCI card

[20:01:22]

frink_:

perlmonkey: Hey! Do you use DVB?

[20:01:34]

perlmonkey:

hi, no im not so advanced :)

[20:01:58]

frink_:

oh bah, i'll just get another cheep thing on ebay :)

[20:02:29]

perlmonkey:

ebay is the place eh

[20:02:44]

perlmonkey:

i just got a pvr 150 for 25.00

[20:03:04]

** juski is in the UK & loves his dvb-t tuners **

[20:03:25]

** perlmonkey robs one of juski's tuners **

[20:03:30]

perlmonkey:

:P

[20:03:43]

juski:

!trout perlmonkey thief

[20:03:43]

** MythLogBot slaps perlmonkey with a thief trout on behalf of juski... **

[20:03:50]

** perlmonkey realises he doesnt have anyway to use it and puts it back **

[20:04:11]

juski:

everybody in the UK needs to go digikal

[20:04:35]

perlmonkey:

i have digital cable

[20:04:39]

juski:

the anal logs is gonna be switched orf soon :)

[20:04:45]

perlmonkey:

but i dunno nuffin

[20:04:49]

juski:

I have digital cable too. it sucks

[20:05:18]

perlmonkey:

it sucks because you cannot record and watch another channel and it cant change channels to record

[20:05:21]

juski:

we cut back our channel package the other week – sod all worth watching on the paid-for channels anyway

[20:05:34]

perlmonkey:

but now VirginMedia is trying to sell me a dvr for £20 a month

[20:05:51]

juski:

ah the V+ thingy? bah to that, amen

[20:05:57]

perlmonkey:

yes exactly

[20:06:43]

perlmonkey:

haha

[20:07:03]

juski:

oh wait no I sometimes like to watch TV when it's raining & stuff

[20:07:14]

perlmonkey:

all the moula you save on cable tv channels you dont watch can go into mythtv hardware eh

[20:07:36]

perlmonkey:

i got the basic package for £5 and its got plenty of channels still i never have time to watch them all

[20:07:47]

juski:

what money? I've spent £50 on tuners, £200 on the frontend

[20:07:56]

perlmonkey:

phew

[20:08:24]

juski:

<3 my epia frontend :)

[20:08:27]

juski:

...mostly

[20:08:37]

perlmonkey:

did you Sky is doing war on VirginMedia now

[20:08:43]

perlmonkey:

Sky channels been removed eh

[20:08:47]

perlmonkey:

*see

[20:09:03]

doc|home:

I can't even parse that sentence

[20:09:39]

juski:

yeah I was following that closely

[20:09:45]

perlmonkey:

I think it's revenge on Richard Branson for the feud with Rubert Murdock over the ITV takeover bid

[20:09:51]

juski:

"oh noes! no mores $kys One$ !"

[20:09:56]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[20:10:04]

doc|home:

sky one is shite.

[20:10:14]

juski:

eggsackerly innit

[20:10:17]

doc|home:

Only thing it ever did that was good was show the simpsons

[20:10:32]

doc|home:

and that it did way too much

[20:10:37]

doc|home:

constant repeats--

[20:10:41]

juski:

yeah well since there's not been a single decent *new* simpsons episode in at least 2 years...

[20:10:45]

hjohnson:

on the other hand, all the channels I want to watch aren't on basic tv

[20:10:52]

hjohnson:

if only they'd sell channels $1 apiece of somthing

[20:11:05]

perlmonkey:

so Sky thinks people will drop cable for Simpons and get Sky eh

[20:11:09]

perlmonkey:

dumbasses

[20:11:43]

perlmonkey:

but things will hot up now between cable and sky in the coming months

[20:12:29]

perlmonkey:

hjohnsons do you have Sky

[20:13:03]

doc|home:

so, how can you get HD in Uk / Ireland without sky?

[20:13:18]

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[20:13:28]

perlmonkey:

HD is coming to cable eh

[20:13:43]

fiber0pti:

I'm trying to play MP3s on my mythtv box and it hangs everytime I try to play a file. Any ideas?

[20:14:15]

juski:

how can you get HDTV in the UK & use it with mythtv or a 3rd-party PVR? Ahh that's right – you can't!

[20:14:34]

perlmonkey:

juski can the cable boxes be interfaced directly to mythtv? they have usb, and ethernet eh

[20:14:47]

doc|home:

juski: why can't you?

[20:14:53]

juski:

perlmonkey: you can't

[20:14:57]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[20:15:05]

juski:

doc|home: the $ky HD boxes are closed

[20:15:09]

perlmonkey:

but can use the IR blaster?

[20:15:23]

xris:

perlmonkey: but how would you access the data?

[20:15:28]

doc|home:

juski: sure, but have the output go into your own pvr card, then use the ir blaster to switch the channels.

[20:15:37]

doc|home:

xris: data?

[20:15:38]

juski:

doc|home: not in HD you can't

[20:15:41]

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[20:15:48]

doc|home:

they're encrypted?

[20:15:50]

perlmonkey:

xris: i dunno I thought perhaps could be useful for changing channels

[20:15:50]

doc|home:

(the output)

[20:16:01]

juski:

so if you have $ky HD, you're locked into $ky for recording and viewing

[20:16:07]

xris:

perlmonkey: right.. but you still couldn't get the HD signal int the mythbox

[20:16:15]

perlmonkey:

:(

[20:16:22]

juski:

if you have cable HD, you're locked into the cable box for recording and viewing

[20:16:27]

doc|home:

xris: why's that?

[20:16:47]

doc|home:

is hdcp or something necessary?

[20:16:52]

juski:

the only hope we have is for HDTV to be broadcast over the air, but that's not gonna happen until at least analogue has been switched off

[20:17:00]

xris:

doc|home: how would you record HD?

[20:17:03]

perlmonkey:

teleport TV is like cable's mythtv

[20:17:23]

juski:

and the firewire/ethernet/etc ports on all the boxes are disabled

[20:17:24]

perlmonkey:

but it needs ALL of the tv scheduling, its too limited at present

[20:17:25]

hjohnson:

i've seen one hdmi capture card for not too much money

[20:17:36]

hjohnson:

but of course it didn't work with HDCP

[20:17:36]

perlmonkey:

juski: that sucks

[20:17:48]

perlmonkey:

juski: you tried it out eh :P

[20:17:49]

juski:

gees do I have to put the myth about capturing HDMI to bed again?

[20:18:08]

hjohnson:

juski: i've seen a card that does it, in person.

[20:18:08]

xris:

hjohnson: you'd still need a HUGE cpu to recompress the signal

[20:18:12]

juski:

so you capture uncompressed HDMI... wtf do you do with it when you've got it?

[20:18:27]

juski:

15Gb/sec... hmmm try compressing that on the fly

[20:18:28]

hjohnson:

juski: recompress it with a couple of fast DSPs. :)

[20:18:38]

juski:

yeah yeah mr dreamer :)

[20:18:41]

perlmonkey:

what about non-HD tho?

[20:18:47]

perlmonkey:

can it be interfaced

[20:18:50]

hjohnson:

though I think it only did up to 720p

[20:18:59]

juski:

SD is no problem – you just grab it with a pvr card

[20:19:06]

juski:

then use an IR blaster

[20:19:16]

hjohnson:

juski: it can always be done.. it's just about how much money you're willing to spend.

[20:19:18]

xris:

perlmonkey: it'd be analog, but should work fine

[20:19:29]

xris:

hjohnson: or how many laws you want to break.

[20:19:29]

juski:

but who wants to record HD at SD resolution?

[20:19:30]

doc|home:

what's the output on a sky box like?

[20:19:39]

juski:

doc|home: component or HDMI

[20:19:57]

juski:

the next gen of $ky boxen will be HDCP encrippled

[20:19:59]

hjohnson:

xris: none, i live in Canada, it's prefectly legal for me to record the stuff ofr my own personal use.

[20:20:02]

doc|home:

and what are the inputs on HD capture cards? Can they not read those?

[20:20:05]

doc|home:

juski: bastards

[20:20:26]

juski:

doc|home: the HD tuner cards which have analogue capture are only framegrabbers

[20:20:33]

doc|home:

urgh

[20:20:54]

xris:

hjohnson: I think that bellvu would probably complain if you were decrypting their signal... they'd at least cancel your account in violation of TOS, and then they could get you for theft of signal, or something like that.

[20:20:58]

juski:

they demodulate the mpeg stream for HD & pass it over the pci bus – their video inputs/analogue tuners are framegabbed

[20:21:02]

perlmonkey:

if you upload something off tv onto YouTube who is breaking the law, you for uploading/sharing it, or Google for hosting it/public broadcasting?

[20:21:13]

perlmonkey:

mebbes both?

[20:21:27]

juski:

perlmonkey: primarily YOU for uploading it

[20:21:31]

perlmonkey:

ok

[20:21:44]

xris:

perlmonkey: in the US, the isp isn't liable as long as they perform due diligence to try to prevent it.

[20:22:08]

juski:

see the recent case of a youtube user who got his nuts in a vice for uploading '24' clips

[20:22:10]

doc|home:

so even if you legally wanted to use a sky box, you couldn't? So in that case I'm better off using one of the boxes of questionable legality.

[20:22:18]

hjohnson:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/13/hdmi-capture-card-for-249/

[20:22:22]

perlmonkey:

but if Google makes revenues off of YouTube and copyright holders lose revenue, Google is liable for losses eh

[20:22:38]

hjohnson:

xris: they can't chage you with theft, since you've already paid for it.

[20:22:43]

hjohnson:

and it's not theft anyhow.

[20:22:47]

perlmonkey:

I heard Viacom sued Google for $1 billion dollars?

[20:22:47]

xris:

perlmonkey: will have to wait for the outcome of the current lawsuit

[20:22:48]

juski:

hjohnson: wooyeah uncompressed HDMI... 15Gb/sec. try writing that to hdd

[20:22:51]

hjohnson:

it's copyright violation, a civil tort, not a criminal offense.

[20:23:05]

hjohnson:

juski: I can sustain 200MB/s writes to my disk subsystem.

[20:23:07]

xris:

hjohnson: you missed the part about them cancelling your account for violation of TOC

[20:23:10]

xris:

er, TOS

[20:23:14]

doc|home:

hjohnson: it's possible the card could convert it and output to mpeg, right?

[20:23:19]

hjohnson:

xris: sure, they can do that, but how would they know?

[20:23:30]

juski:

doc|home: no

[20:23:33]

juski:

NO NO NO NO

[20:23:35]

doc|home:

xris: they have to find out first

[20:23:37]

juski:

:)

[20:23:38]

doc|home:

juski: why not?

[20:23:40]

hjohnson:

doc|home: anything's possible.

[20:23:47]

juski:

it IS NOT POSSIBLE

[20:23:55]

doc|home:

ok, but why?! :)

[20:23:56]

perlmonkey:

the Google v Viacom is a test case?

[20:24:02]

hjohnson:

juski: 15gigabit isn't that much.

[20:24:03]

perlmonkey:

will set a precedence?

[20:24:06]

hjohnson:

in the modern era.

[20:24:11]

xris:

hjohnson: doesn't make it any less illegal.

[20:24:14]

juski:

ok maybe possible but it's hardly practical

[20:24:23]

hjohnson:

xris: it's a civil tort.

[20:24:27]

hjohnson:

it's civil, not criminal..

[20:24:41]

** xris thinks that "hdmi capture" will work pretty much like a framegrabber card. **

[20:24:44]

doc|home:

juski: why not, your computer subsystem works with those speeds all the time. If it was all done on the card, you'd be fine.

[20:24:50]

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[20:24:54]

hjohnson:

xris: selling it is criminal, selling the equipment to do it is criminal.

[20:24:54]

doc|home:

xris: but not conversion?

[20:24:56]

xris:

input -> display.. but you'd need a huge cpu/hard drive to actually record it.

[20:24:57]

juski:

doc|home: but it's not all done on the card

[20:25:06]

perlmonkey:

copyright enfringement is theft?

[20:25:11]

perlmonkey:

theft = criminal

[20:25:17]

xris:

hjohnson: civil or criminal is still illegal

[20:25:30]

juski:

the card hjohnson linked to grabs hdmi data & compresses it on the fly, lossily using something similar to mjpeg

[20:25:42]

juski:

there are no linux drivers for it, and mythtv can't use it

[20:25:45]

hjohnson:

xris: and it's only illegal if you give it to someone else. recording it for your own personal use is quite legal.

[20:25:57]

xris:

hjohnson: NO, not if you don't pay for it.

[20:26:08]

hjohnson:

xris: whoever said i wasn't paying for it?

[20:26:10]

juski:

and besides all of that, the storage requirements are ridiculous

[20:26:17]

hjohnson:

if you don't pay for it, it's copyright violation, through and through.

[20:26:21]

perlmonkey:

we can record anything for our own use?

[20:26:31]

hjohnson:

perlmonkey: sure.

[20:26:34]

perlmonkey:

cool

[20:26:35]

xris:

hjohnson: if you're decrypting the sat signal to get at the HD, you're at the very least violating the TOS of the provider.

[20:26:36]

rjune:

one can always count on #mythtv-users for a rousing argument about copyright

[20:26:43]

banyan:

If they decide to change how the tv is delivered, it doesn't change our rights as users.

[20:26:44]

perlmonkey:

but we cant share it with a friend?

[20:26:52]

xris:

rjune: no kidding

[20:26:55]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: in most civilised countries you can download for your own use. It's distribution that's illegal.

[20:26:59]

perlmonkey:

hehe its a good debate

[20:27:11]

xris:

doc|home: and by "most civilized countries" you're definitely excluding the US.

[20:27:25]

perlmonkey:

when you see the copyright it says, selling, renting, leasing, redistribution

[20:27:28]

banyan:

It used to be TV was on cable or air. If they're distributing it digitally now, we still have the right to record it.

[20:27:30]

perlmonkey:

all commercial activities eh

[20:27:45]

perlmonkey:

personal use and showing your mates, thats not commercial eh

[20:27:55]

banyan:

Now, true enough, if you chuck it on a website after you record, you might hear the knock knock of a process server at your door.

[20:27:59]

perlmonkey:

but it also goes on to say, public broadcasting

[20:28:27]

perlmonkey:

when does showing your mates, become public broadcast

[20:28:39]

xris:

doc|home: the DMCA f'd over things in the US. it's still legal for personal use to record a radio show onto an analog cassette tape for personal use, but if you use a computer to do the same thing, it's a felony.

[20:28:45]

perlmonkey:

if money is involved?

[20:28:45]

banyan:

If you do it at home that's cool.

[20:28:57]

doc|home:

xris: by the way, for the cable company to take issue with you violating their TOS, they have to know you're violating it. How would they if it's only for your own use.

[20:29:16]

banyan:

If you have a bar and you show stuff there, you are doing it in public.

[20:29:25]

xris:

doc|home: again, doesn't make it any less wrong/legal that you don't get caught.

[20:29:29]

perlmonkey:

and thats also commercial eh, so they want paying?

[20:29:44]

perlmonkey:

but if you're a school, thats public but non-commercial so you wouldnt be expected to pay?

[20:29:47]

banyan:

I think once somebody with brains and balls gets into the white house that might get bounced out.

[20:29:54]

doc|home:

xris: they're getting paid. I believe my obligation to them ends there.

[20:29:57]

banyan:

The DMCA is generally a piece of shit.

[20:30:07]

hjohnson:

xris: right, but it's also questionable as to whether those terms in The ExpresVu TOS are even legal, sinc ethey infringe upon a person's right to fair use.

[20:30:21]

xris:

doc|home: except that you've violated your side of the agreement.

[20:30:25]

banyan:

you can't even back up your own programs for backup purposes.

[20:30:42]

xris:

hjohnson: could be. but it'd have to go to court to be decided for sure.

[20:30:43]

perlmonkey:

the public broadcasting thing seems to be a big grey area especially where sites like YouTube are concerned

[20:30:45]

banyan:

that's a civil matter.

[20:30:58]

xris:

I believe the "right to refuse service" comes into play no matter what, though.

[20:30:59]

doc|home:

xris: I didn't see any terms and conditions. I came into this building and the cable was provided as is for $45 per month.

[20:31:19]

xris:

doc|home: you probably signed something on your lease.

[20:31:35]

doc|home:

xris: nope. 1 sheet of paper. No details specific to the cable connection.

[20:31:36]

rjune:

I didn't sign a lease.

[20:31:44]

perlmonkey:

if the cable company has paid for the material it shows, then that extends to the viewers to use it how they see fit?

[20:31:57]

perlmonkey:

providing its not commercial

[20:32:01]

xris:

doc|home: if you're in canada, then you might then be allowed to decrypt the digital cable signal for personal use. not in the US, though

[20:32:19]

hjohnson:

xris: you're not decripting it, the digital box is.

[20:32:30]

hjohnson:

you're just recording what was transmitted to you, and have the right to use.

[20:32:32]

xris:

hjohnson: if you're recording HD, you're decrypting.

[20:32:37]

perlmonkey:

exactly

[20:32:52]

doc|home:

xris: as an aside, a lot of the time rules only change when people pay no attention to them or publicly and actively disrespect them. Online distribution of music being one.

[20:32:55]

hjohnson:

xris: hmm? you're uncompressing, but not decrypting.

[20:33:16]

xris:

hjohnson: if the signal on the wire is not encrypted, sure.. but most cable signals are encrypted.

[20:33:26]

xris:

and I *know* that satellite signals are.

[20:33:35]

perlmonkey:

putting material online is classed as distribution then it seems

[20:33:37]

rjune:

not the signal provided to your television.

[20:33:39]

perlmonkey:

thats a no no

[20:33:40]

hjohnson:

xris: right, but their box is decripting it, you're just capturing it after its been decrypted.

[20:33:48]

xris:

hjohnson: then you're not capturing HD.

[20:33:54]

perlmonkey:

but...

[20:34:04]

hjohnson:

xris: depends on how you capture.

[20:34:09]

perlmonkey:

if you put material on your server, which happens to be online :P

[20:34:09]

xris:

or you're using a wacky hdmi card and need a huge cpu to recompress the signal.

[20:34:10]

doc|home:

xris: no, if you circumvent encryption you're breaking the DMCA. But are you if you're saving an unencrypted stream to your computer?

[20:34:12]

xris:

and then it's lossy.

[20:34:16]

perlmonkey:

are you distributing material?

[20:34:24]

xris:

doc|home: that'd be a huge file.

[20:34:34]

xris:

compressed HD is like 9.6G/hour

[20:34:45]

doc|home:

xris: to me, even the stuff off mythtv is huge imo

[20:34:47]

doc|home:

:)

[20:34:52]

hjohnson:

you can do whatever you want, it just boils down to how much money you're willing to spend...

[20:34:59]

juski:

uncompressed HD is like ummm... 15Gb/sec... you do the sums

[20:35:07]

perlmonkey:

phew

[20:35:10]

doc|home:

xris: I don't mind lossy. I've got a cable connection here which is analog and terrible

[20:35:13]

perlmonkey:

HD is overrated

[20:35:26]

juski:

not everybody will be comfortable having a terabyte storage array at home

[20:35:27]

perlmonkey:

the technology has to catch up with it still

[20:35:29]

hjohnson:

15gb/sec

[20:35:37]

perlmonkey:

but its not worth the massive cost at this point in time

[20:35:45]

rjune:

juski: I'm comfortable with it. Now if only my wallet was

[20:35:55]

doc|home:

so. the stuff on torrent sites that's HD. How is that captured now?

[20:35:55]

hjohnson:

heh

[20:36:07]

xris:

doc|home: probably firewire.. or illegally via satellite.

[20:36:13]

xris:

and most of that stuff isn't actually HD.

[20:36:17]

hjohnson:

doc|home: probably at a network hub or something, from the raw ASI video.

[20:36:23]

juski:

perlmonkey: you've seen it then? I keep repeating here that I saw real HD next to $ky HD a while ago – the *real* HD from a demo disk blows $ky away

[20:36:26]

juski:

anyway...

[20:36:27]

juski (juski!n=juski@spc1-salf3-0-0-cust227.bagu.broadband.ntl.com) has quit ("If I could go just one whole day without seeing")

[20:36:33]

doc|home:

xris: isn't HD?

[20:36:41]

perlmonkey:

juski: I saw Sky HD

[20:36:47]

hjohnson:

that's because satellite HD tends to be 4 to 6 megabit or so.

[20:36:53]

hjohnson:

cable 3 to 4

[20:36:58]

hjohnson:

OTA can be upwards of 12 megabit

[20:37:00]

perlmonkey:

yeah its clearer picture, but i wouldnt go spend $$$ for that... big deal eh

[20:37:15]

doc|home:

ah, ok

[20:37:27]

xris:

hjohnson: my cable HD is the same as ota, sizewise.

[20:37:31]

doc|home:

hell, I'd be happy with that. It's far better than my analog :/

[20:37:39]

xris:

doc|home: might have originally been hd, but have been sized down

[20:37:42]

hjohnson:

xris: most of the BSG episodes I grab are higher resolution than that... and the only reason why I grab those is they won't broadcast them to me in a rasonable time frame, even though they film it here.

[20:37:50]

hjohnson:

xris: right, but the bitrate is lower...

[20:37:56]

doc|home:

xris: and what hardware could you use for that?

[20:37:59]

hjohnson:

xris: ergo more compression, less quality.

[20:38:05]

xris:

hjohnson: odd. scifi doesn't broadcast in HD anywhere that I know of. wish they did.

[20:38:15]

xris:

hjohnson: um, bitrate == size

[20:38:23]

hjohnson:

hmm? no

[20:38:30]

hjohnson:

unless by size you don't mean resolution

[20:38:46]

xris:

hjohnson: a 1 hour show is 9.6G/hour from cable and OTA.. same size, same bitrate.

[20:38:55]

hjohnson:

when I transmit stuff via satellite, I can chose to run NTSC at 2 megabit, 4 megabit, 6 megabit, 8 megabit.

[20:38:56]

xris:

bitrate + time == size

[20:39:13]

hjohnson:

it's still the same resolution, but quality changes drastically.

[20:39:15]

hjohnson:

xris: oh, ok...

[20:39:15]

xris:

I didn't say *all* cable. just mine.

[20:39:24]

perlmonkey:

Iran has seized 15 british military personnel

[20:39:37]

hjohnson:

anyhow, I need to go take a sawzall to a friend's house.

[20:39:38]

xris:

now, the SD stuff changes size/bitrate based on channel and time of day (it's how they allocate bandwidth)...

[20:40:13]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: old news. Iran says they were in Iranian waters. Brits say not.

[20:40:40]

xris:

doc|home: hardware to encode from HD to SD isn't so bad... since the final product is smaller.

[20:40:49]

perlmonkey:

they better release them as SAS will be on their asses

[20:41:07]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: they don't even know where there being held and Iran is huge :)

[20:41:12]

doc|home:

s/there/they're

[20:41:18]

perlmonkey:

so was Iraq

[20:41:25]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: and look at the mess that is

[20:41:29]

perlmonkey:

but it didnt take them long to bring that down eh

[20:41:37]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: you're assuming it's down

[20:41:46]

banyan:

Poll time! when Calgary is mentioned, the first adjective that comes to mind is:

[20:41:50]

perlmonkey:

it was down when they took out the power and telecoms within 2 hours

[20:42:02]

doc|home:

they don't even control the 5 mile stretch from the airport in baghdad to the primary military base in baghdad

[20:42:27]

doc|home:

banyan: cold?

[20:42:53]

banyan:

OK... not moneygrubbing, soulless, cultureless?

[20:43:04]

doc|home:

haven't been there yet :)

[20:43:14]

perlmonkey:

where is Calgary?

[20:43:21]

doc|home:

Canada

[20:43:24]

perlmonkey:

oh

[20:43:41]

perlmonkey:

isnt Canada the wealthest country?

[20:44:02]

banyan:

I'm unsure. I'd be surprised if it was.

[20:44:11]

banyan:

More than the US?

[20:44:16]

perlmonkey:

I think it's in the top 3 if not the first

[20:44:18]

perlmonkey:

yes

[20:44:27]

perlmonkey:

becuz US has a huge national debt

[20:44:32]

perlmonkey:

Canada doesnt

[20:45:10]

perlmonkey:

but where does Canada get its wealth? theres nothing there eh, what does it export?

[20:45:20]

doc|home:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countrie . . . 28nominal%29

[20:45:23]

banyan:

Diamonds, oil and gas.

[20:45:32]

perlmonkey:

oil eh

[20:45:36]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: oil, gas, wood, Canadians.

[20:45:41]

doc|home:

common sense

[20:45:43]

perlmonkey:

Canada is big!

[20:45:47]

perlmonkey:

bigger than USA

[20:45:49]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: and it's on top!

[20:45:53]

perlmonkey:

people don't realise

[20:45:53]

** doc|home runs **

[20:45:58]

perlmonkey:

phew

[20:46:20]

perlmonkey:

so Canada is the wealthest?

[20:46:33]

Paladine:

wealthier than the US

[20:46:34]

banyan:

It's #2 in size to China. Except a lot of that is ice and unlivable.

[20:46:45]

Paladine:

the user has more debt than any other country in the world

[20:46:50]

Paladine:

the US even

[20:46:51]

perlmonkey:

oh

[20:46:52]

doc|home:

banyan: no, to russia I thought

[20:47:08]

doc|home:

china's smaller

[20:47:09]

perlmonkey:

China and Russia and Canada look very large

[20:47:13]

perlmonkey:

compared to USA

[20:47:16]

doc|home:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationCanada2.svg

[20:48:03]

perlmonkey:

but the size of Canada is misleading as banyan said, large areas are inhabitable?

[20:48:36]

banyan:

Canada's #8 or #9.

[20:48:54]

banyan:

But we're not nearly as populous, so maybe it's gdp per capita.

[20:48:55]

perlmonkey:

thats strange

[20:49:10]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: I'd say the same about china or russia for mainly economic/political reasons :?

[20:49:11]

doc|home:

:/

[20:49:12]

brianw_ is now known as JoeyJoeJo

[20:49:19]

perlmonkey:

I remember seeing on news they said Canada was wealthiest, but it must been in a different context, like lowest national debt maybe

[20:49:26]

doc|home:

banyan: yeah, but does GDP factor in national debt?

[20:49:51]

hatlevip (hatlevip!n=hatlevip@static-71-98-119-44.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection)

[20:50:00]

perlmonkey:

doc|home: good point

[20:50:07]

doc|home:

it might do, I don't know

[20:51:28]

banyan:

we're second to russia. China is very nearly the exact same size.

[20:51:36]

perlmonkey:

does the USA keep a lot of gold reserves to back the dollar?

[20:51:55]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: it's unknown. The Fed won't allow an audit

[20:52:00]

perlmonkey:

damn

[20:52:14]

banyan:

I think nobody's on the gold standard anymore.

[20:52:37]

perlmonkey:

the UK put a third of its gold reserves into the Euro, with no set date for joining it even

[20:52:38]

doc|home:

banyan: the euro is backed by 30% gold. The dollar by 10% at most

[20:52:53]

perlmonkey:

thats low, only 10%

[20:53:19]

perlmonkey:

the US dollar seems to have suffered a lot under Bush administration

[20:53:27]

doc|home:

yeah, the whole thing's a mess. The Fed prints 10 dollars. The banks buy it and with that 10$ the banks can loan 100$

[20:53:38]

perlmonkey:

phew!

[20:53:55]

doc|home:

then someone high up in the tree calls in their loans and you have a recession

[20:54:03]

doc|home:

which is what's going to happen soon

[20:54:09]

perlmonkey:

do you think so?

[20:54:19]

perlmonkey:

its nearly $2 to £1 now isnt it

[20:54:24]

banyan:

Currency has to be partly fiat anyway, there is simply no reason to peg a country's economy against a single commodity.

[20:54:27]

doc|home:

Alan greenspan said there's a 1/3 chance that there'll be one this year

[20:54:35]

perlmonkey:

ive never seen the dollar so low

[20:54:50]

doc|home:

banyan: yep, once you don't have crazy printing of money like there has been for the last few years a fiat should be ok.

[20:55:09]

doc|home:

and crazy loans so people end up in debt, then when the debts get called in, people lose everything.

[20:55:12]

banyan:

The biggest issue right now in the US is the subprime loans.

[20:55:27]

perlmonkey:

but you have to back your currency with real commodity like gold, and keep your spending in check

[20:55:33]

banyan:

something like 13% of them end up in default.

[20:55:36]

tominglis (tominglis!n=tomingli@80-192-59-214.cable.ubr01.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:56:01]

tominglis:

hi guys, does anyone know where i would put a remote control configuration file?

[20:56:07]

xanderp (xanderp!n=xanderp@74-142-5-21.dhcp.insightbb.com) has joined #mythtv-users

[20:56:08]

tominglis:

specifically this one

[20:56:09]

tominglis:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Nebula_DigiTV_Remote

[20:56:10]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: no, it's not really necessary, and it can be as bad as having nothing. The real problem is the Fed being a private bank and controlling the money. Gold can have the same problem.

[20:56:12]

perlmonkey:

if the US goes into recession it will hit the UK

[20:56:15]

perlmonkey:

and then Asia

[20:56:31]

perlmonkey:

like dominos affect

[20:56:38]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: it'll hit everywhere, but then china is owed a lot of that debt so will own a lot of things in the US when it all goes down

[20:56:47]

perlmonkey:

:(

[20:57:01]

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[20:57:10]

doc|home:

tominglis: into your .mythtv folder

[20:57:25]

perlmonkey:

how are the interest rates now in USA

[20:57:36]

banyan:

let's say that there's a country called mumu, with 1 million grams of gold and 1 million buks in circulation. Wages are stable, prices are stable...

[20:57:47]

xanderp:

anyone using xbmcmythtv online now? I'm trying to figure out why i can't get closed captions working, like on my 'real' frontends.

[20:57:48]

perlmonkey:

yes

[20:57:58]

banyan:

and suddenly a giant diamond mine is discovered in the countryside in mumu.

[20:58:01]

doc|home:

deosn't matter, there's both very low growth and inflation. Interest rates can only fix one at the detriment of the other.

[20:58:27]

xanderp:

i love that we have all this debt, but nations all over the world owe us money! why don't we sell their debt to the people we owe?

[20:58:51]

doc|home:

banyan: diamonds are only worth a lot because their supply is controlled. A huge mine means the price of diamonds go down.

[20:58:52]

perlmonkey:

the UK owes USA $40 billion from WWI still

[20:59:10]

banyan:

So what happens to the exchange rate of the buk against other currencies, and do wages and prices go up in mumu?

[20:59:11]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: no, the UK paid off its last WWII debt a couple of months back

[20:59:17]

xanderp:

diamonds are mined and then put in vaults to keep them off the market.

[20:59:25]

perlmonkey:

that was from WWII tho, we still owed u from WWI!

[20:59:30]

perlmonkey:

its not been mentioned by USA

[20:59:47]

perlmonkey:

becuz UK is owed money from lots of countries from the empire days, even USA owed some

[21:00:18]

banyan:

it's true. the things that are actually in short supply are nickel, iron, cadmium, etc.

[21:00:26]

perlmonkey:

i think those old debts are pretty much cancelled out now

[21:01:03]

perlmonkey:

banyan: what happens in mumu

[21:01:09]

xanderp:

what happened to that ship in the uk that had all the nickel on it that ran aground?

[21:01:20]

perlmonkey:

I'm not sure

[21:02:33]

doc|home:

xanderp: the US is acquiring a debt of 10billion per month to china alone. Other debts to you don't come close.

[21:02:38]

perlmonkey:

there was a ship which ran aground off the southwest coast, is that the one?

[21:02:39]

banyan:

My point is that the pegged dollar doesn't allow for growth of an economy. A fiat dollar actually handles this better.

[21:02:47]

perlmonkey:

it spilled a lot of oil into the sea

[21:03:11]

doc|home:

banyan: the dollar you should have is the one that's just enough to allow commerce to take place. No inflation, no recessions.

[21:03:17]

perlmonkey:

banyan: ah yes I see your point now

[21:03:27]

doc|home:

money is only really a replacement for bartering

[21:03:41]

** frink_ just wants the UK husing market to collapse so he can buy a house **

[21:03:44]

banyan:

whereas the pegged dollar is bartering with gold by proxy.

[21:03:51]

perlmonkey:

frink_ haha

[21:04:00]

frink_:

cus like 500,000 UKP for a 3 bedroom council house in London is just crazy

[21:04:00]

perlmonkey:

that will happen soon if present growth rates continue

[21:04:07]

doc|home:

frink_: if it collapses are you sure you'll be able to keep your job? No job, no mortgage

[21:04:26]

frink_:

half a million for a nasty looking council house in a grotty council estate with ganga, drugs and asll that

[21:04:29]

banyan:

It will, but you might not like living where the foreclosures are happening.

[21:04:49]

perlmonkey:

london is too expensive, why not move out a bit further

[21:04:55]

perlmonkey:

and avoid all the nasty gangs and drugs

[21:05:11]

banyan:

leeds?

[21:05:12]

hardnova:

my myth box keeps deviding shows with 2mins in the next recording of the last show how do i ajust that ?

[21:05:14]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:05:15]

banyan:

southampton?

[21:05:17]

perlmonkey:

leeds!

[21:05:17]

nuonguy (nuonguy!n=john@c-24-6-175-26.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users

[21:05:33]

frink_:

doc|home: I'm in WiMAX – next big thing ;-) So prob not. I'll be living on one of these 500k council houses for free ;-)

[21:05:37]

perlmonkey:

then u'll have nasty northerner gangsters and different drugs

[21:05:53]

xanderp:

nice, i search google looking for help with xbmc and closed captions and the best links i can find are the chat logs from beirdobot of my asking the same questions months ago!! :)

[21:05:57]

frink_:

hmm

[21:06:03]

perlmonkey:

retire to south of france

[21:06:14]

frink_:

loose job, get free council house, use right to buy to buy it for 50k, sell 3 years later , profit.

[21:06:23]

perlmonkey:

thats an idea

[21:06:34]

frink_:

probobly for more than I could make in those 3 years anyway

[21:06:40]

doc|home:

frink_: if other people don't have jobs, how can they afford to pay for internet connections? :)

[21:06:41]

perlmonkey:

with only 2 minor pitfalls

[21:06:52]

xanderp:

move to the phillipines, i'm pretty sure the cost of living there is low...

[21:07:06]

frink_:

doc|home: Everybody needs t'internet, its like gas electric and water!

[21:07:25]

doc|home:

frink_: which would be more important to you. Food and electricity or the internet?

[21:07:29]

frink_:

xanderp: And if you're short of a few quid you can always sell yourself to english tourists ;-)

[21:07:31]

hardnova:

I though it maybe the system time but I have that in sync with the local atomic clock

[21:07:33]

perlmonkey:

you guys have really gone off topic now :P

[21:07:39]

doc|home:

40 quid buys you a lot of food :)

[21:07:45]

xris:

doc|home: internet sort of depends on electricity

[21:07:46]

frink_:

doc|home: Internet! If you aint got the Internet how do you order the food?

[21:07:52]

perlmonkey:

true

[21:08:01]

banyan:

the people who most often get suckered into taking those subprime mortgages in the US are minorities so the homes are in low income areas.

[21:08:07]

perlmonkey:

do you guys all get your shopping online?

[21:08:13]

doc|home:

xris: exactly and if you can't afford the electricity paying for a net connection's a bit pointless : )

[21:08:15]

tominglis:

hi guys. what is the difference between lircd.conf and lircrc? do i need both? do i need to install lirc, (the remote already seems to do very limited things in mythtv), and if so do i need to tell myth where it is?

[21:08:22]

banyan:

very little of my shopping is online.

[21:08:26]

hardnova:

through ntpd but it still cuts the last 2 mins off and puts them in the next recording

[21:08:26]

frink_:

banyan: People in the UK get suckered into taking out mortgages they can barely afford to pay. Soon as interest rates go up, they are in for it.

[21:08:34]

perlmonkey:

i get my food shopping delivered

[21:08:36]

xris:

tominglis: one controls lirc, the other tells lirc how to talk to your app

[21:08:48]

xris:

er, one tells lirc how to talk to the remote, the other tells it how to talk to the app

[21:08:50]

hardnova:

can i adjust the system by 2 mins somewhere?

[21:08:54]

banyan:

their only salvation will be if they had good downpayments but I bet not so much.

[21:09:08]

doc|home:

tominglis: lircrc is for the remote conf. lircd.conf is for the lirc deamon configuration

[21:09:26]

xanderp:

the problem here in the us is that they sell new houses with payments people can afford the first year, then the property taxes go up on the 'improved' lot and they can't afford them anymore.

[21:09:26]

doc|home:

damn, too slow :(

[21:09:26]

perlmonkey:

you can pay off your mortgage in 2 years some guy says

[21:09:38]

perlmonkey:

if you're smart with your money

[21:09:56]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: sure, and there are hot girls in your town just waiting to talk to you. Ring this number 555–6969

[21:10:04]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:10:13]

xris:

perlmonkey: depends on how much money you make, and how big your mortgage is.

[21:10:21]

perlmonkey:

seriously, there was a series on BBC2 about it and some couples managed it

[21:10:24]

xanderp:

if you make double payments you can almost pay off a 30 year loan in 7 years. The rest is them screwing you on interest

[21:10:29]

perlmonkey:

yes

[21:10:40]

xris:

I could pay mine off in just over 3 years if I didn't eat, didn't have interest, etc.

[21:10:56]

doc|home:

a friend of my sister was 4 years into his mortgage, had a heart attack, insurance cover paid remaining 26 years of mortgage

[21:11:08]

perlmonkey:

alot of money can be saved simply by having a good budget and managing your spending better

[21:11:14]

xris:

doc|home: that's why I have a big life insurance policy.

[21:11:15]

doc|home:

indeed

[21:11:18]

xanderp:

yep... that's one time insurance is nice.

[21:11:20]

doc|home:

xris: :)

[21:11:36]

ASiDiE:

GrayFoxx, you around?

[21:11:39]

xris:

if either my wife or I die, the other won't get stuck with a mortgage payment.

[21:11:56]

perlmonkey:

thats reassuring to know

[21:12:15]

xanderp:

back to the xbox frontend... does anyone here know how to get it to do closed captions? i'm using the xmbcmythtv script, not a linux install.

[21:12:42]

xanderp:

wow! i thought he died.

[21:12:47]

doc|home:

nope

[21:12:55]

xanderp:

good insurance then

[21:12:56]

doc|home:

he's not even married as far as I know

[21:13:01]

xanderp:

(probably $$$$$$$$)

[21:13:03]

perlmonkey:

but if you have a heart attack you can be rendered unable to work again

[21:13:22]

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[21:13:29]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: he used to be in the army as far as I know. He stayed long enough that he could retire at 39 :)

[21:13:29]

xanderp:

i'm rendered unable to work by lazyness... is that an illness coverable by insuance?

[21:13:33]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:13:35]

perlmonkey:

nope

[21:13:45]

doc|home:

he was Irish by the way, not the US army :)

[21:13:52]

perlmonkey:

doc|home: phew

[21:14:03]

xanderp:

20 years is retirement from usarmy

[21:14:14]

doc|home:

with an army pension?

[21:14:15]

xanderp:

20 years service

[21:14:21]

xanderp:

yes

[21:14:23]

perlmonkey:

heart attack at 39?

[21:14:24]

doc|home:

is the army pension any good?

[21:14:37]

doc|home:

perlmonkey: he might have been a bit older but not much

[21:14:43]

xanderp:

so about the same. (in at 18 or 19+20 years = 38–39 years old)

[21:14:46]

perlmonkey:

just shows eh

[21:14:48]

banyan:

OK, I am missing something. My remote works in mythfrontend but only partly. The buttons I typically use to go forward / backward don't work anymore. What's the connection between the lirc stuff and what the buttons do in mythfrontend?

[21:14:59]

perlmonkey:

i blame stressful living

[21:15:04]

xanderp:

military pay in the us sucks unless you are a higher ranking officer.

[21:15:52]

xanderp:

people dont' realize it buy you actually have to BUY your uniforms and stuff... it's not free from the gvmnt.

[21:15:57]

banyan:

it's a job some people take in the US because they want to serve their country but a lot of people take because they'll take you in if there are no other opportunities for you.

[21:16:12]

xanderp:

i was in for 6 years (navy)

[21:16:40]

perlmonkey:

you can get trained in the army for a variety of careers its a good way to get training for many eh

[21:16:48]

doc|home:

banyan: wages are shit and you're liable to end up in a country you really shouldn't be in :/

[21:16:54]

perlmonkey:

providing you dont get shot

[21:17:01]

banyan:

Statistically which armed forces branch (army / navy / marines / air force) is the least dangerous?

[21:17:01]

tominglis:

so i can't just dump a lircrc file in .mythtv, lircd.conf file in /etc, and install the lirc package from ubuntu repository and boom?

[21:17:05]

tominglis:

oops can

[21:17:22]

tominglis:

?

[21:17:31]

xanderp:

you have to be selective with what branch of military you go into, and what job you sign up for to make it unlikely you will be shot at... :)

[21:17:34]

doc|home:

tominglis: not always. Remote controls aren't standardised, even in the one model. You usually have to train it but it's easy

[21:17:37]

banyan:

How do I re-link the buttons on the remote to specific actions in mythfrontend?

[21:17:53]

doc|home:

banyan: it's in the documentation :/

[21:18:05]

perlmonkey:

probably the navy i would say is least dangerous

[21:18:09]

xanderp:

i was an electrician on an aircraft carrier for most of my time in the military.

[21:18:18]

perlmonkey:

cool

[21:18:20]

tominglis:

doc|home: why does it work basically now, when i haven't done anything? it can do basic browsing with no lirc installed?

[21:18:25]

banyan:

My remote's programmable. I have it rigged as a gray hauppauge but I can't even find the gray hauppauge remote anymore.

[21:18:33]

doc|home:

tominglis: that *is* weird :)

[21:18:37]

banyan:

ok, I get it... rtfm....

[21:18:45]

doc|home:

banyan: :)

[21:18:57]

banyan:

It's actually pretty good documentation now.

[21:18:57]

tominglis:

doc|home: i just have kubuntu feisty, and all the mythtv packages installed, no lirc

[21:19:13]

perlmonkey:

xanderp: when you leave the army and try for a civillian job does your military training put you in good sted with potential employers?

[21:19:20]

tominglis:

doc|home: but i can scroll menus and things and there are no config files for it or anything

[21:19:20]

doc|home:

tominglis: no idea myself. Someone else here might know

[21:19:36]

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[21:19:38]

xanderp:

it can... they see that you are trainable, and probably have a good work ethic.

[21:19:59]

xanderp:

also you get experience if you pick a job you are interested in for civilian life.

[21:20:01]

banyan:

but they may not believe you think for yourself unless you got some rank.

[21:20:12]

tominglis:

does anyone know why my remote works in mythtv (for basic navigation) without installing lirc or setting a config file?

[21:20:12]

perlmonkey:

cool

[21:20:17]

doc|home:

banyan: lircrc in your mythtv folder

[21:20:40]

tominglis:

it is nebula electronics rev b

[21:20:47]

xanderp:

i trained for electrical nuclear power plant operator, so since that wasn't what i wanted to be as a civilian, it didn't do much good as job experience

[21:20:57]

banyan:

It's in there? oh! ok.

[21:21:03]

banyan:

Thought there was another step to it.

[21:21:23]

doc|home:

xanderp: car salesman! (this car has the best engine this side of a nuclear powerplant)

[21:21:27]

** xanderp = homer simpson **

[21:21:33]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:22:40]

perlmonkey:

has anyone thought of using solar powered mythtv

[21:22:45]

xanderp:

off i go, be good!

[21:22:48]

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[21:23:00]

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[21:24:28]

** perlmonkey prepares tea and gives some to doc|home **

[21:24:42]

doc|home:

mmmtea

[21:25:05]

perlmonkey:

tea and disgestive biscuits

[21:25:13]

perlmonkey:

*digestive

[21:25:16]

doc|home:

chocolate hobnobs > *

[21:25:22]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:25:28]

perlmonkey:

only the best eh

[21:25:31]

doc|home:

:)

[21:25:49]

tominglis:

choccie digis

[21:26:03]

tominglis:

and shortbread

[21:26:05]

tominglis:

shortbread rocks

[21:26:13]

perlmonkey:

that guy paid off his mortgage by writing about tea and biscuits on the web didnt he

[21:26:26]

tominglis:

which guy?

[21:26:59]

perlmonkey:

nicecupofteaandasitdown.com

[21:27:05]

perlmonkey:

cult site now

[21:27:49]

perlmonkey:

maryland cookies

[21:28:12]

doc|home:

the man can't even write:

[21:28:13]

doc|home:

It might of been the third biscuit to join the HobNob family but for years the plain chocolate HobNob (that's dark chocolate for those who don't quite follow UK chocolate naming conventions) has enjoyed a loyal following.

[21:28:18]

doc|home:

HAVE BEEN!

[21:28:21]

** doc|home explodes **

[21:29:03]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:31:07]

perlmonkey:

is the UK the biscuit capital of the world?

[21:31:11]

tominglis:

yes

[21:31:14]

perlmonkey:

:D

[21:31:46]

tominglis:

they have three biscuits factories not too far from here

[21:31:51]

perlmonkey:

in the USA do you call them cookies, like a generic term for all sweet biscuit things?

[21:32:23]

perlmonkey:

tominglis: Burtons?

[21:33:58]

** perlmonkey puts on the kettle and fetches the biscuit tin **

[21:35:03]

tominglis:

hmmm, not sure, probably one of them

[21:35:20]

tominglis:

there's one in peffermill and i think there are some in south west edinburgh too

[21:35:25]

bpickford:

garibaldi = itilian revoloutionary

[21:35:27]

tominglis:

lots of biccies :)

[21:35:41]

bpickford:

bourbon = french revoloutionary

[21:35:44]

bpickford:

:)

[21:35:46]

perlmonkey:

:-)

[21:36:01]

tominglis:

this week, i shall be mostly eating, bourbon biscuits

[21:36:13]

bpickford:

hehe

[21:36:17]

perlmonkey:

burton = married to liz

[21:36:47]

bpickford:

biccy factory is at ashby?

[21:37:09]

perlmonkey:

i went past the marmite factory once

[21:37:15]

perlmonkey:

phew that town stinks

[21:37:24]

tominglis:

ashby?

[21:37:36]

bpickford:

ashby-de-la-zouch

[21:37:43]

perlmonkey:

no the marmite one in burton on trent

[21:38:14]

bpickford:

some one has to taste every batch of that

[21:38:16]

perlmonkey:

i do like marmite tho

[21:38:17]

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[21:38:20]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:38:21]

tominglis:

marmite is good

[21:38:22]

bpickford:

:( now thats a poor job

[21:38:23]

perlmonkey:

imagine that

[21:38:25]

tominglis:

but only thinly spread

[21:38:32]

perlmonkey:

yes only thin

[21:38:33]

tominglis:

bovril is good though

[21:38:37]

tominglis:

for stews and things

[21:38:54]

perlmonkey:

i prefer vegiemite but they only sell it in those big tubs

[21:38:59]

tominglis:

hahahaha

[21:39:00]

tominglis:

yeah

[21:39:02]

perlmonkey:

:D

[21:39:02]

xris:

perlmonkey: not in the US.

[21:39:12]

xris:

little tiny cans here.

[21:39:12]

perlmonkey:

ok

[21:39:26]

perlmonkey:

did you see Guinness has a marmite now

[21:39:29]

xris:

no one here eats that stuff. heh.

[21:39:37]

xris:

mmm... dried lees.

[21:39:38]

xris:

lol

[21:40:03]

perlmonkey:

haha

[21:40:44]

tominglis:

there are so many weird british food things

[21:40:52]

perlmonkey:

true

[21:40:54]

xris:

tominglis: like curry?

[21:40:56]

tominglis:

whenever i go food shopping abroad i always notice the lack of them

[21:41:04]

perlmonkey:

hedgehog flavoured crisps

[21:41:09]

xris:

tominglis: same goes for peanut butter if you're from the US

[21:41:11]

tominglis:

not really, more ingredienty / standalone snacky stuff

[21:41:22]

tominglis:

nah, you get peanut butter most places?

[21:41:28]

bpickford:

badger snacks

[21:41:32]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:41:34]

tominglis:

peanut butter jam and marmite sandwiches

[21:41:36]

xris:

tominglis: not in south america.. at least not when I was down there in the late 80s

[21:41:51]

xris:

we had to have friends import peanut butter and chocolate chips for us.

[21:41:55]

perlmonkey:

do americans have black pudding

[21:41:59]

tominglis:

and haggis

[21:41:59]

xris:

perlmonkey: no

[21:42:19]

perlmonkey:

i stopped eating that after i found out what it was

[21:42:28]

tominglis:

black pud?

[21:42:31]

perlmonkey:

ya

[21:42:37]

tominglis:

yeah, it's kinda weird eating blood :)

[21:42:37]

xris:

perlmonkey: I just don't eat animal parts.. solves the problem. heh.

[21:42:41]

tominglis:

tastes good though

[21:42:46]

tominglis:

especially with apple

[21:42:47]

perlmonkey:

it does

[21:43:02]

perlmonkey:

im a vegetarian now tho

[21:43:05]

tominglis:

for breakfast, not so much

[21:43:31]

tominglis:

my condolences

[21:43:32]

tominglis:

:)

[21:43:38]

perlmonkey:

think of some more weird british food

[21:43:39]

perlmonkey:

:P

[21:43:48]

tominglis:

welsh rarebit

[21:43:52]

tominglis:

bubble and squeak

[21:43:55]

perlmonkey:

the names of our foods tend to assume people

[21:43:56]

tominglis:

yorkshire pudding

[21:43:58]

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[21:44:01]

perlmonkey:

like toad in the hole

[21:44:13]

tominglis:

arbroath smokies

[21:44:24]

bpickford:

deep fried mars bars

[21:44:27]

tominglis:

hahaha

[21:44:29]

perlmonkey:

bubble and squeak ive never even tried it

[21:44:33]

bpickford:

never had one, but i know they exiist

[21:44:44]

tominglis:

they exist solely in glasgow

[21:44:46]

tominglis:

:)

[21:44:55]

perlmonkey:

oh yes ive heard thats a scottish thing

[21:44:58]

bpickford:

healthiest place on earth

[21:45:11]

perlmonkey:

scotch eggs

[21:45:16]

xris:

perlmonkey: sticky toffee pudding. :) that at least is good *and* vegetarian.

[21:45:20]

tominglis:

the statistics for obesity in scotland are skewed massively by glasgae

[21:45:23]

perlmonkey:

ahh thats yummy

[21:45:29]

bpickford:

lol

[21:45:31]

perlmonkey:

jamaica cake

[21:45:47]

tominglis:

cranachan

[21:45:54]

perlmonkey:

bread and butter pud all soggy with currants

[21:46:11]

tominglis:

gravadlax? think that's how its spelt

[21:46:12]

xris:

perlmonkey: british puddings tend to be pretty good.. at least the sweet ones.

[21:46:19]

tominglis:

yeah

[21:46:22]

tominglis:

bread and butter is immense

[21:46:24]

xris:

much better than the american styld.

[21:46:28]

perlmonkey:

i like those puds

[21:46:33]

xris:

any bread pudding... heh.

[21:46:40]

perlmonkey:

treacle pudding

[21:46:47]

tominglis:

although spotted dick

[21:46:54]

xris:

people on my side of the US don't do treacle/molasses..

[21:47:00]

xris:

but if you like it, you should look up "shoo fly pie"

[21:47:11]

tominglis:

a lot of these puddings you don't see much outside school / pubs now though

[21:47:12]

xris:

it's from amish country.. really tasty

[21:47:33]

perlmonkey:

true but they are british classics, we should have them more in places eh

[21:48:01]

xris:

too many "classics" are considered lower class food, and restaurants avoid them.

[21:48:05]

xris:

it's really annoying, actually

[21:48:11]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[21:48:20]

tominglis:

we need some british restaurants really

[21:48:30]

tominglis:

that serve buff venison stews and bread and butter pudding and stuff

[21:48:53]

xris:

tominglis: problem is that most "british" food has been taken over by curries and other stuff not actually from there.

[21:48:58]

tominglis:

especially now that people don't cook so much at home

[21:49:02]

perlmonkey:

i tried ginger beer for first time y'day, anyone tried that

[21:49:04]

perlmonkey:

phew

[21:49:10]

tominglis:

yeah!?

[21:49:19]

xris:

all of the classics are just the weird stuff that you only get at pubs, or only a handful of people make/eat.

[21:49:21]

perlmonkey:

nearly burned my throat out

[21:49:26]

tominglis:

proper ginger beer, or rubbish schweppes shite?

[21:49:27]

xris:

perlmonkey: huh? ginger beer / ale can be anything.

[21:49:36]

perlmonkey:

a real authentic old recipe one

[21:49:48]

xris:

I have about 15 lbs of ginger and galangal in my kitchen to make up a batch or three. :)

[21:49:55]

tominglis:

ginger beer is a classic hangover cure

[21:50:02]

perlmonkey:

wow

[21:50:19]

xris:

I love the stuff... can't get anything commercial strong enough anymore (only one brand comes close)

[21:50:33]

perlmonkey:

wow, you should try the one I have

[21:50:38]

perlmonkey:

its very strong

[21:50:57]

perlmonkey:

fetinmans.com

[21:51:13]

xris:

404

[21:51:35]

perlmonkey:

i like how theres a dog on the bottle and its the owners dog, "fearless thomas fentiman"

[21:51:39]

perlmonkey:

:(

[21:51:41]

tominglis:

err, i think i need to restart the noo, to get this lirc / mythtv thing working, brb

[21:51:50]

perlmonkey:

fentimans.com

[21:51:58]

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[21:53:42]

xris:

perlmonkey: too bad I can't seem to get it in the US.

[21:54:09]

perlmonkey:

:-/

[21:54:17]

xris:

my homemade stuff is pretty good, though.

[21:54:37]

xris:

I just need to remember to make the concentrate up in batches that I can freeze, so I don't have to make 5 gallons at a time.

[21:54:44]

perlmonkey:

does it burn your throat?

[21:55:21]

perlmonkey:

wooooooah

[21:55:28]

perlmonkey:

i just drank some more of it *shakes head*

[21:56:00]

perlmonkey:

its a strange drink, its harsh, yet you want it again

[21:56:01]

xris:

perlmonkey: yup, that's about how I like it. :)

[21:56:06]

perlmonkey:

:D

[21:56:10]

xris:

you should try it with a shot or rum mixed in. :)

[21:56:11]

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[21:56:11]

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[21:56:11]

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[21:56:16]

perlmonkey:

hehe

[21:56:21]

xris:

national drink of bermuda

[21:56:30]

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[21:57:05]

xris:

anyway, I need to go jump into the shower and figure out how much mead I can get made up today.... have to feed my little yeasty friends.

[21:57:11]

tominglis:

dandelion and burdock

[21:57:23]

perlmonkey:

I only have Pastis in the house

[21:57:33]

perlmonkey:

:)

[21:57:38]

tominglis:

i am going to make some venison and cranberry casserole

[21:58:08]

** perlmonkey makes blueberry pie with custard **

[21:58:35]

tominglis:

hmmm fare thee well

[21:58:40]

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[21:59:03]

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[21:59:37]

harryman100:

Hi, I'm getting very jerky audio and slightly jerky video during playback in mythtv, I have a via graphics chipset, does anyone know what I might be able to do to make things run a little smoother?

[22:02:36]

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[22:14:32]

xris:

harryman100: record at a lower resolution?

[22:14:41]

xris:

check RAM use, swap, cpu use, etc.

[22:18:05]

harryman100:

xris: tis digital in, recording at a different resolution would require downscaling then (as I understand it) CPU use is 92% (for mythfrontend) RAM is almost full, swap has been used a small amount

[22:18:37]

harryman100:

I've had this same box playing content from the same sources fine before – but I updated the driver the other day, and now everythings buggered up

[22:19:12]

harryman100:

(I had to update the driver – I managed to delete the kernel module I was using, and I didn't have the original source I compiled from

[22:20:47]

xris:

harryman100: sounds like it's an issue with the driver, then.

[22:21:22]

Inssomniak:

what was the command to fix up the myth database?

[22:21:57]

harryman100:

just tried it in vlc – playing the same file the playback is smooth (and audio does not jerk), however CPU usage is still maxed out

[22:22:32]

xris:

Inssomniak: huh?

[22:22:35]

xris:

"fix up"?

[22:22:52]

Inssomniak:

my installation died

[22:23:03]

xris:

Inssomniak: right. but what do you mean by "fix up"?

[22:23:11]

Inssomniak:

repair ?

[22:23:15]

Inssomniak:

I ran it once before

[22:24:51]

xris:

you thinking about optimize_mythdb.pl?

[22:25:25]

xris:

afk, have to get some work done in the garage.

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maxxer:

hi

[22:38:30]

hads:

/lastlog hads

[22:38:47]

hads:

hmm

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[23:10:12]

tominglis:

hi all, i am having difficulty getting lirc to work

[23:10:30]

tominglis:

i have followed these instructions

[23:10:31]

tominglis:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Install_Lirc_Feisty

[23:10:51]

tominglis:

using these config files

[23:10:52]

tominglis:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Nebula_DigiTV_Remote

[23:11:18]

tominglis:

but when you start lirc, it says it canne load the required kernel modules

[23:11:29]

tominglis:

i have configured it with lirc_gpio

[23:11:41]

tominglis:

does anyone know how to solve this, it is driving me silly :)

[23:11:44]

tominglis:

thanks muchlt

[23:11:46]

tominglis:

y

[23:11:47]

tominglis:

t

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[23:13:02]

kharan5876:

are there any ways to reduce the lag between the video feed coming into mythtv and the video on screen?

[23:16:12]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: not really – MythTV creates a small video buffer when you launch LiveTV

[23:16:23]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: what video card are you using?

[23:16:50]

kharan5876:

hauppauge pvr 150, which is being fed video from a comcast cable box via svideo

[23:17:06]

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[23:17:07]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: the PVR-150 already has some lag in the card itself as it compresses the video

[23:17:27]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: is the lag causing a problem?

[23:17:36]

kharan5876:

the problem is that when i use the comcast remote to navigate on demand menus, there is a lag between the button press on the remote and the cursor movement on the screen

[23:19:06]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: ahh – that's just a fact of life when using MythTV I'm afraid

[23:19:40]

kharan5876:

hmm

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[23:21:01]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: you could edit the source code and reduce the video buffer (I usually see around 5s lag) but you'll never get it instantaneous because the PVR card itself has a small delay as it encodes the video stream

[23:21:32]

kharan5876:

wonder if I could disable hardware encoding somehow

[23:21:59]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: you'd need to check with the ivtv folks

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[23:23:48]

kharan5876:

I still need to have the video decoded even tho it goes thru a cable box first right?

[23:24:40]

kharan5876:

and if I were to reduce the mythtv video buffer would that harm anything else?

[23:25:25]

achew22:

J-e-f-f-A, they realeased the ISO for linuxmce, would you like the link? (I guess its not vaporware)

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[23:26:41]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: Do you use On Demand all the time?

[23:26:51]

kharan5876:

not all the time

[23:27:16]

kharan5876:

but id like to get it to work cuz my gf uses the system and shes a non technical person

[23:27:20]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: In my experience I'd leave it alone and just put up with it. Watch it through the TV directly instead maybe?

[23:27:48]

kharan5876:

yeah considered that

[23:28:38]

kharan5876:

I might just do that

[23:30:39]

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[23:31:39]

kharan5876:

just need the universal remote to get here to make all of that seamless

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[23:40:38]

Qwell:

hey, would you guys happen to know if it's possible to get a hauppauge not delay video on the composite? I tried to modprobe ivtv with mpg_buffers=0, but that didn't help too much

[23:42:07]

Chicago:

Qwell: The hauppauge cards are 3 chips... you might be able to get the raw digital video before it hits the encoder... but I think that's 29MB/sec I don't know how to do it though.

[23:42:23]

Qwell:

size doesn't matter much, I'm not saving it

[23:42:33]

Qwell:

I just want to play playstation :p

[23:42:36]

Chicago:

lol

[23:42:55]

Qwell:

racing games aren't very possible with that 2s delay, heh

[23:42:58]

Chicago:

That's the same reason I want to get the delay out... so I can get a nintendo wii and play it through the computer.

[23:43:27]

Qwell:

My old ATI all-in-wonder did it just fine.. fast as can be

[23:43:28]

kharan5876:

i just asked someone about that

[23:43:47]

kharan5876:

i dont think its possible

[23:43:48]

knowledgejunkie:

Qwell: you might be able to use another output from the ivtv driver, like I told kharan5876

[23:43:50]

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[23:43:57]

Qwell:

another output?

[23:44:24]

knowledgejunkie:

Qwell: you'd need to check with the ivtv driver folks – one of the other /dev/videoX devices

[23:44:31]

Qwell:

ahh

[23:44:44]

knowledgejunkie:

Qwell: think I recall reading this, but not sure and have never tried myself

[23:45:22]

knowledgejunkie:

Chicago: Same info applies to your situation with the Wii

[23:45:38]

kharan5876:

what if you used a program like xawtv? that might reduce it by the buffer mythtv uses

[23:45:51]

knowledgejunkie:

Chicago: You would probably get the best performance using a simple framegrabber card and mplayer

[23:46:15]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: that wouls eliminate the Myth buffer, and leave the card's

[23:46:17]

Chicago:

My guess is that you can have IVTV open a pipe for raw digital video... and then just mplayer on the pipel.

[23:46:30]

knowledgejunkie:

Chicago: that's what I'm thinking

[23:46:58]

kharan5876:

do digital cable boxes output raw digital video?

[23:47:45]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: over HDMI

[23:47:57]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: composite, S-Video and component are analog

[23:48:09]

Chicago:

Intel has dormant code in the HDMI spec that will open up DRM possibilities in 2012.

[23:48:09]

kharan5876:

and those need the 150's encoding correct?

[23:48:19]

juski:

Qwell: you cannot use a different video (i.e. non-mpeg encoded) device with a pvr card in mythtv

[23:48:22]

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[23:48:45]

knowledgejunkie:

kharan5876: correct, if you use the PVR-150

[23:48:54]

Qwell:

I'd be happy with just the raw stream in mplayer

[23:49:22]

juski:

Qwell: you can't get at the framegrabber part of the pvr card with current drivers AFAIK

[23:49:32]

juski:

not in linux anyway

[23:49:53]

juski:

the ONE single thing framegrabbers are good for: playing console games on your pc :)

[23:51:06]

kharan5876:

qwell do you still have the ati card? maybe you can just use that for gaming

[23:51:14]

Qwell:

kharan5876: no agp

[23:51:35]

kharan5876:

maybe get a basic ati tv wonder? they are pretty cheap esp on ebay

[23:51:51]

kharan5876:

not sure if that would work

[23:52:43]

juski:

yeah it'd work – just not in mythtv – cos you'd still have the recording/encoding delay

[23:52:44]

kharan5876:

maybe somewhere they sell cables for consoles that have vga or dvi video output? i dunno

[23:54:04]

knowledgejunkie:

hey juski :)

[23:54:27]

knowledgejunkie:

juski: ready for BST?

[23:54:55]

juski:

whatever...

[23:55:07]

juski:

I never see the impact of time changes :)

[23:55:16]

Chicago:

Qwell: knowledgejunkie: The IVTV FAQ http://ivtvdriver.org/index.php/FAQ shows that /dev/video32 is the raw YUV (uncompressed) encoder device... Wouldn't that be the realtime device?

[23:55:29]

Qwell:

yeah, it doesn't work though :p

[23:58:56]

juski:

like I said you can't use it with mythtv

[23:59:09]

juski:

unlikely you can use it with another tv app at the same time either

[23:59:32]

juski:

just buy some $10 framegrabber & use that with tvtime or whatever

[23:59:57]

juski:

or buy a suitable cable or converter for your console to plug into the tv

[23:59:58]

Chicago:

I wanna go buy a $10 FM antenna so I can have radio. :)

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