MythLogBot@irc.freenode.net :: #mythtv-users

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Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
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Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-06 03:13:50 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-06 03:13:50 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-06 03:13:50 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-06 03:13:50 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120

Error at /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php, line 120:
htmlentities() [function.htmlentities]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

Details:
    datetime:  2010-12-06 03:13:50 (UTC)
    errornum:  2
  error type:  Warning
error string:  htmlentities() [<a href='function.htmlentities'>function.htmlentities</a>]: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
    filename:  /opt/beirdobot/share/beirdobot/web/includes/utils.php
  error line:  120
Thursday, August 25th, 2005, 00:00 UTC
[00:00:00] LedHed: try it as mythtv anyhow. it may work
[00:00:00] LedHed: I have had troubles withthe frontend as root, that werent problems when run as mythtv
[00:00:00] lcdg720: highly inappropriate but I assume everyone is a gentlemen here. k-man, can you ssh to my box?
[00:01:00] lcdg720: will do. led.
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[00:01:00] k-man: lcdg720, i guess so
[00:01:00] lcdg720: 70.177.99.135
[00:01:00] lcdg720: user k-man
[00:02:00] LedHed: k-man are you using true nvidia drivers or the opensource
[00:02:00] k-man: lcdg720, are you sure you should be handing out ssh logins to your box?
[00:02:00] lcdg720: nvidia
[00:02:00] k-man: LedHed, nvidia
[00:02:00] lcdg720: I don't think anyone will hurt it.
[00:02:00] mchou (n=mchou@c-67-161-61-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11")
[00:02:00] lcdg720: I don't think too many kids are surfing the mythtv-users channel.
[00:02:00] LedHed: lcdg720, you should have sent him a private massage. this irc is logged and made public
[00:03:00] lcdg720: gotcha.
[00:03:00] LedHed: google myth ledhed and you will get a log og this channel
[00:03:00] k-man: thanks
[00:04:00] lcdg720: ahh. will change users, firewall off port 22 for a while.
[00:04:00] lcdg720: let k-man get his file first.
[00:05:00] LedHed: just trying to keep you safe....
[00:05:00] lcdg720: Actually, I'm a security analyst. Just don't think anyone will harm my mythbox for a few minutes.
[00:06:00] k-man: lcdg720, can you just mail it to me please?
[00:06:00] lcdg720: sure.
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[00:09:00] MrFluffy: hmmmm, mythfilldatabase is quietly ignoring every source except the first one too..
[00:11:00] lcdg720: port 22 now closed led. Thank you for the help. I will try going through the guide again as mythtv user and run mythfrontend from a shell to look for errors.
[00:12:00] lcdg720: later.
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[00:15:00] Tatster: hi – i'm getting this message when I try to start mythtv-backend Starting MythTV server: mythbackendQSettings: error creating /home/anthony/.qt
[00:15:00] Tatster: Can anyone help?
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[00:18:00] MrFluffy: are you running the mythtv-backend as user anthony?
[00:19:00] Tatster: Nope – this is waht I typed: sudo /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start
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[00:20:00] MrFluffy: and who owns the /home/anthony/.qt dir?
[00:21:00] MrFluffy: it sounds like its picking your user system env variables up even though your using sudo to assume root priv's...
[00:21:00] Tatster: there isn't one
[00:22:00] MrFluffy: does it work if you su to root and fire up the init script instead of using sudo?
[00:22:00] MrFluffy: or even better a su -l :)
[00:24:00] Tatster: root@beta:/etc/init.d # /etc/init.d/mythtv-backend start
[00:24:00] Tatster: Starting MythTV server: mythbackendQSettings: error creating /root/.qt
[00:24:00] MrFluffy: mkdir /root/.qt ?
[00:24:00] k-man (n=jason@adsl-112-70.swiftdsl.com.au) Quit ("Leaving")
[00:25:00] MrFluffy: if its trying to touch a file in there, but theres no dir of that name it will just say error creating
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[00:26:00] MrFluffy: the dir isnt created dynamically because the ctime on mine is jan 15th..
[00:27:00] Tatster: it didn't error – but it doesn't appear to be running after doing a ps -eaf
[00:28:00] MrFluffy: did it write anything to /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log ?
[00:28:00] Tatster: with nothing in the /root/.qt dir
[00:28:00] MrFluffy: I just checked, and my .qt dir is empty too..
[00:29:00] Tatster: ah yes – a few permission issues with my video store dir
[00:30:00] MrFluffy: sort them out and try it again?
[00:31:00] Tatster: I've just done that and it's now running – yippee
[00:31:00] Tatster: thanks
[00:31:00] MrFluffy: no problem, im just glad it was that simple :-)
[00:32:00] MrFluffy: your user probally will fire it up by sudo now if you make a .qt dir in the users home directory as user anthony..
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[00:49:00] MrFluffy: ok, problem still driving me mad, ive got 3 seperate channel feeds configured in mythtvsetup, theyre showing up in mythweb, and I can do a manual record from the second and third feeds, but theyre not showing in livetv browse mode, even though they have the visible flag set... any ideas?
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[00:54:00] MrFluffy: Ever felt dumb... Ive just pressed the Y key...
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[00:59:00] EL_Whistey: Hello. Where do I submit bugs and logs?
[00:59:00] EL_Whistey: and logs of bugs
[01:01:00] EL_Whistey: the Beirdo FAQ gives me a URL for bugs, but it is a dead link
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[01:13:00] EL_Whistey: http://sh.nu/p/438 here is what's occurring. Can anyone suggest anything? Latest CVS as of 20m ago.
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[01:21:00] EL_Whistey: Found trac stuff, submitted ticket.
[01:22:00] Chutt: try reading the dev list before submitting tickets
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[01:25:00] EL_Whistey: Ah. Sorry. Shall do that now.
[01:25:00] Chutt: you honestly mean you're using svn and not on the dev or commits list?
[01:25:00] EL_Whistey: I'm on commit, as recommended.
[01:26:00] Chutt: heh, and you didn't know the trac url?
[01:26:00] EL_Whistey: Correct. I am a beta whore.
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[01:27:00] EL_Whistey: It's a cultural thing – I'm on Debian unstable, and don't find it unstable.
[01:28:00] EL_Whistey: So, not to spoil my fun ... am I likely to discover that this is a known bug?
[01:28:00] Chutt: no shit
[01:28:00] GreyFoxx: +++++6.
[01:28:00] GreyFoxx: +54
[01:28:00] GreyFoxx: oops
[01:28:00] Chutt: it's been the #1 topic of conversation
[01:28:00] GreyFoxx: My daughter says hello
[01:28:00] GreyFoxx: hehe
[01:29:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, COOL! I've been bitching about it here, and you're the first person who's suggested dev list.
[01:29:00] Chutt: what?
[01:29:00] ** kormoc shakes his head sadly. **
[01:29:00] Chutt: why would you be running unstable software without bothering to look at the dev list?
[01:30:00] EL_Whistey: It's not about 'bothering', it's about 'realising the necessity'.
[01:30:00] EL_Whistey: As mentioned, some projects use HEAD as a staging post to release, so it's mainly stable.
[01:30:00] EL_Whistey: Some projects (e.g. Debian) the bugs aren't worse, just newer.
[01:31:00] EL_Whistey: mythtv doesn't, I can cope with that now I know.
[01:31:00] EL_Whistey: BTW, is my ticket a duplicate?
[01:32:00] kormoc: EL_Whistey, did you try searching the tickets?
[01:32:00] EL_Whistey: Nope. I mentioned the problem here, got no sense of recognition, presumed it was new.
[01:32:00] ** kormoc laughs. **
[01:33:00] kormoc: sorry, that's just amusing to me :)
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[01:33:00] Chutt: people like you are why i really want to make the bug tracker private
[01:33:00] Chutt: people that don't search first piss me off
[01:34:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, oh right – good move. And if the bug tracker is private, there'll be fewer bugs.
[01:34:00] Chutt: yup
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[01:35:00] Chutt: but no wasted time
[01:35:00] EL_Whistey: No, there really will.
[01:35:00] EL_Whistey: Love the 'tude.
[01:36:00] EL_Whistey: 'People like me', how would you know what I'm like?
[01:36:00] EL_Whistey: That's monumentally arrogant.
[01:36:00] kormoc: EL_Whistey, so you perfer to waste the dev's time rather then they fix known bugs eh?
[01:36:00] EL_Whistey: kormoc, I prefer to engage in straw man arguments rather than deal with real problems. How about you?
[01:37:00] Chutt: you've just demonstrated that you: don't read the mailing list, and didn't bother to search the bugtracker
[01:37:00] EL_Whistey: How about, if you don't want to waste time, you mention the dev list along with your admonition to subscribe to commits?
[01:37:00] EL_Whistey: How about you add this sage advice to the bug submission text on the wiki (one or all) which purport to provide frontline support?
[01:37:00] kormoc: EL_Whistey, his point was, by just posting the bug, rather then you taking the time to search to see if it's already reported, you wasted his time, and then you say he's the one with the attitude.
[01:38:00] EL_Whistey: Or would you prefer to deal with 'people like me' who do what I just did on a regular basis?
[01:38:00] EL_Whistey: kormoc, anyone who starts a sentence with 'people like you' need an attitude adjustment.
[01:38:00] EL_Whistey: needs.
[01:38:00] Chutt: no, not really
[01:38:00] Chutt: you need to search before filing duplicate bugs
[01:39:00] Chutt: there _is_ a handy-dandy little search button right next to the 'new ticket' one
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[01:39:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, cool. Keyword in context search?
[01:39:00] Chutt: but, you should have seen all the dvb bugs being filed, if you're on the commits list as you say you are
[01:39:00] Chutt: should be pretty damn obvious that dvb's in flux right now
[01:40:00] EL_Whistey: Hey, look, I'm on the tcl dev team. I check out cvs *all* the time, it's rock solid. Not sure why ... perhaps because there's an extensive test suite.
[01:40:00] EL_Whistey: Now I understand that mythtv is dealing with hardware, and that isn't possible here, however:
[01:40:00] Chutt: perhaps because it's easy to develop a test suite for a non-used language
[01:40:00] EL_Whistey: C++ doesn't have one.
[01:40:00] Chutt: and it's kind of difficult to do so with a tuner card
[01:41:00] Chutt: gcc has one for it
[01:41:00] Chutt: if you've ever compiled it, you'd see :p
[01:41:00] EL_Whistey: compiled gcc? yeah, I've done that. IIRC, it runs itself through itself and does a binary comparison.
[01:42:00] Chutt: there's a whole set of tests, but, anyway
[01:42:00] EL_Whistey: I was merely responding to your en passant ill-informed diss of tcl.
[01:43:00] Chutt: heh
[01:43:00] EL_Whistey: I figured it'd be reasonable to suggest a parity with C++, since I (at least) am familiar with both.
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[01:44:00] EL_Whistey: So anyway, sorry I wasted your time, it was unintentional.
[01:44:00] EL_Whistey: However, I'm just *not* going to get the guilts about it.
[01:45:00] Chutt: uh, i really don't care if you 'get the guilts' or not
[01:45:00] EL_Whistey: If I thought you were interested in fixing the problem you're bitching about, I'd step you through the docco I followed to get to where I committed this grave wastage of precious dev time.
[01:45:00] Chutt: i didn't think it was necessary to explicitly state that people should try not to file duplicate bugs
[01:45:00] EL_Whistey: But I guess bitching at the passing trade is one of the perquisites of being a mythtv dev.
[01:46:00] Chutt: figured that that was common sense, especially for someone who says they're a dev on another project
[01:46:00] EL_Whistey: You should probably get out more, then.
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[01:46:00] Chutt: heh
[01:46:00] Chutt: that all you can come up with?
[01:47:00] DCG: anyone successful in playing 1920x1080 nuv's in windows?
[01:47:00] EL_Whistey: You're quite insular. I think it goes along with C++ and Qt usage.
[01:47:00] Chutt: see, you're not even making sense
[01:47:00] EL_Whistey: Which part of that makes no sense to you?
[01:47:00] Chutt: dcg, they're mpeg
[01:48:00] Chutt: might need a different mpeg-ts demux
[01:48:00] EL_Whistey: You, as a group, are quite insular. Need a dict ref?
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[01:48:00] Chutt: heh
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[01:48:00] Chutt: how does that relate to wanting people to look for existing bugs before filing new ones?
[01:49:00] DCG: Chutt: yes, except i can't get anything to play it reliably. vlc can't get the audio to work right, nero can't decode 1920x1080 fast enough (looks like they have some bad code as its only using 10% cpu to render choppy video)
[01:49:00] Chutt: for unreleased software?
[01:49:00] EL_Whistey: It relates to your usage of 'common sense'.
[01:49:00] EL_Whistey: I get dup bug reports all the time.
[01:49:00] DCG: qt crashes instantly on opening the file, as does wmp. mpc locks on the first frame.
[01:49:00] EL_Whistey: I get hundreds of bug reports.
[01:49:00] EL_Whistey: What I don't get is panty bunchage as a result.
[01:50:00] Chutt: you get hundreds of bug reports for a portion of software that is currently in-process of being rewritten?
[01:50:00] Chutt: and they're all dupes?
[01:50:00] EL_Whistey: tcl's an older project, so the production process is continuous, not discrete.
[01:51:00] EL_Whistey: I guess that doesn't make sense either.
[01:51:00] Chutt: so how's it compare, again?
[01:51:00] Chutt: say 'slow' and 'fast' :p
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[01:52:00] EL_Whistey: Heh. Like I've never written realtime software in C++. It's such a black art.
[01:52:00] EL_Whistey: Mythv's obviously qualitatively different from any other piece of s/w on the planet, hence beyond comparison.
[01:52:00] EL_Whistey: Insular. In. Su. Lar.
[01:53:00] Chutt: you can't compare it to the dev process for a language that's hardly used anymore, is all
[01:53:00] DCG: Chutt: what would you suggest i try to use to play this back?
[01:53:00] Chutt: dcg, dunno, sounds like you've tried most things i'm aware of :p
[01:53:00] DCG: yea, with quicktime i get "file is not an mpeg"
[01:53:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, you seem to enjoy this red herring, 'tcl is not used'. Sometimes I think that people's argumentation style relates to their coding style.
[01:53:00] Chutt: and again, you're making no sense
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[01:54:00] EL_Whistey: It's not like "oops, my project HEAD is broken. That is my fault." it's like "You have reported a bug. It's your fault."
[01:54:00] EL_Whistey: From where I sit, reportage of bugs, even duplication, is a good thing.
[01:54:00] Chutt: that's not what i did
[01:54:00] Chutt: "you reported a duplicate bug. that's your fault.'
[01:54:00] EL_Whistey: Personally, I encourage people to report even when it's probably not necessary.
[01:55:00] Chutt: which it is, since you didn't bother to search the open bug reports
[01:55:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, the duplication is my fault, the bug is not.
[01:55:00] Chutt: i didn't say the bug was your fault
[01:55:00] EL_Whistey: Two ways to prevent it. (a) prevent duplication ('sometimes I want to make bug reporting private'), (b) prevent bug.
[01:55:00] Chutt: how do you prevent a bug?
[01:56:00] DCG: Chutt: by implementing error checking when you write something the first time :)
[01:56:00] EL_Whistey: That's a big question.
[01:56:00] Chutt: heh
[01:56:00] Chutt: and i can't prevent duplication, because apparently, people are too lazy to search
[01:56:00] EL_Whistey: Making the code more modular.
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: Not writing all of it in a low level language.
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: Those can help.
[01:57:00] Chutt: none of that would prevent a bug
[01:57:00] Chutt: no, they wouldn't
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: Sure it does.
[01:57:00] Chutt: no
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: Heh. Yeah.
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: higher level language means fewer lines of code.
[01:57:00] DCG: mandating programmers not touch the code while drunk.
[01:57:00] EL_Whistey: bugs occur at a constant rate per loc of given complexity
[01:57:00] DCG: :) i've done that in some of my projects and its done wonders.
[01:58:00] Chutt: right, and high level languages have such nice constructs for dealing with dvb cards
[01:58:00] EL_Whistey: You use the HLL as glue.
[01:58:00] Chutt: guess what – the bugs in the current dvb stuff are all in low level places dealing with the driver
[01:58:00] EL_Whistey: You restrict the low level language to stuff that needs intimate relations with the hardware.
[01:58:00] DCG: Chutt: you mean you can't do everything with a simple struct?
[01:58:00] EL_Whistey: No surprise there.
[01:59:00] Chutt: so, why are you recommending a 'high level language' again?
[01:59:00] EL_Whistey: Hint: client/server comms protocols are not good candidates for Low Level Language.
[01:59:00] Chutt: why not?
[01:59:00] DCG: chutt: noone was suggesting using tcl were they?
[01:59:00] Chutt: he was
[01:59:00] EL_Whistey: HLLs have good constructs for dealing with interprocess comms over sockets.
[02:00:00] EL_Whistey: Low level languages do not.
[02:00:00] Chutt: how's that relate to the current situation again?
[02:00:00] EL_Whistey: Sure, it's the unix way.
[02:00:00] Chutt: or even to anything in myth?
[02:00:00] EL_Whistey: Well, one of the problems seems to be that mythbackend gets all autistic.
[02:00:00] Chutt: since it's one line of code to send a message to the server in myth
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[02:00:00] DCG: tcl has _no_ place within something like mythtv, atleast not at the core. maybe as a way to extend it with easy to make plugins that require no compilation. but python would be even better.
[02:01:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, I disagree.
[02:01:00] Chutt: dcg, but it'd magically fix all the bugs!
[02:01:00] EL_Whistey: Of course not.
[02:01:00] Chutt: but you just said it would
[02:01:00] EL_Whistey: No, this is another of your straw men.
[02:01:00] DCG: tcl would slow things down, possibly introduce more bugs, and add unneeded complexity
[02:01:00] Chutt: EL_Whistey Not writing all of it in a low level language.
[02:02:00] Chutt: you just said that for a way to reduce bugs
[02:02:00] EL_Whistey: You know, if this is an example of how you think things through, it's a worry.
[02:02:00] Chutt: i'm just going by what you're telling me
[02:02:00] EL_Whistey: HLL is good to reduce linecount which reduces maintenance load.
[02:02:00] Chutt: oh, sorry, preventing bugs
[02:02:00] EL_Whistey: And we haven't even gotten onto modularity yet.
[02:02:00] Chutt: no, you said that that was a way to prevent bugs
[02:02:00] rw`: pop corn anyone?
[02:02:00] Chutt: not reduce linecount
[02:02:00] DCG: rw`: yea, but not that kettle corn garbage.
[02:02:00] EL_Whistey: Yes, #bugs is a function of complexity and code size.
[02:03:00] Chutt: prevent bugs
[02:03:00] DCG: heh
[02:03:00] EL_Whistey: I thought this argument was settled sometime in the 70s.
[02:03:00] Chutt: so, using a high level language magically prevents bugs
[02:03:00] EL_Whistey: No, it merely moves them to where they can do most good.
[02:03:00] Chutt: and speeds up development, i assume?
[02:03:00] EL_Whistey: sure.
[02:03:00] Chutt: let's compare freevo's state of development to myth's
[02:03:00] ** DCG notes C/C++ are high level languages and also notes mythtv is implemented using said languages. **
[02:03:00] Chutt: since they're using python, no?
[02:04:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, C/C++ are not HLLS.
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[02:04:00] EL_Whistey: I've no idea. Are they?
[02:04:00] Chutt: and they're not even doing anything with video playback, and pushing that all off to mplayer/xine
[02:04:00] Chutt: yes, they are
[02:04:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: from your perspective, maybe.
[02:04:00] Chutt: it's your ideal project!
[02:04:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah. I think the thing to do with Mythtv is gut it.
[02:04:00] Chutt: they use c for low level stuff (ie., mplayer), and python for the ui
[02:04:00] Chutt: naw, you should just go use freevo
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: Sounds like a good move.
[02:05:00] DCG: heh
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: Why should I go use freevo?
[02:05:00] Chutt: because they already do everything like you want
[02:05:00] DCG: cause they need some prodding.
[02:05:00] Chutt: you'll have to give up tv stuff, though
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: It'd make more sense to gut mythtv, take the good stuff, glue it together with some UI stuff.
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: Why?
[02:05:00] Chutt: freevo doesn't really do tv stuff
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: Oh, if I took your only route.
[02:05:00] Chutt: even though they've been around longer
[02:05:00] EL_Whistey: fallacy of the excluded middle, I think.
[02:06:00] Chutt: and livetv's been 'coming soon' for 3 years
[02:06:00] EL_Whistey: Thing to do is gut mythtv, get the good stuff, and link it using a HLL.
[02:06:00] Chutt: why?
[02:06:00] EL_Whistey: mythtv has some good low level stuff.
[02:06:00] Chutt: what would that get you?
[02:06:00] DCG: uhm, EL_Whistey, do that then.
[02:06:00] EL_Whistey: Trouble is, it's *all* low level stuff.
[02:06:00] EL_Whistey: livetv.
[02:06:00] Chutt: and why would you have to gut anything?
[02:07:00] Chutt: it's all modular
[02:07:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, I'd do it rather than switch to something that did less, sure.
[02:07:00] DCG: i still see no logic for switching to another language.
[02:07:00] Chutt: dcg, but it'd magically fix bugs!
[02:07:00] Chutt: and make development easier for certain people!
[02:07:00] DCG: Chutt: and cook my lunch too i bet!
[02:07:00] EL_Whistey: And it would kill 99% of all known straw men.
[02:07:00] EL_Whistey: Catch 95.3% of all red herrings.
[02:08:00] EL_Whistey: How do you guys even manage code?
[02:08:00] Chutt: i'm just repeating what you've said
[02:08:00] ** DCG notes he used to write stuff in tcl, back in highschool... **
[02:08:00] EL_Whistey: Ah, so you can show me where I said 'magically fix bugs' ?
[02:08:00] Chutt: you said that a high level language was one of two ways to reduce bugs
[02:08:00] Chutt: i added 'magically'
[02:08:00] Chutt: because i thought it was hilarious
[02:09:00] EL_Whistey: Quite so. HLL reduces code size which reduces bug count.
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[02:09:00] DCG: Chutt: i think we need to rewrite mythtv in mindfcuk
[02:09:00] EL_Whistey: I don't even get where this is problematic.
[02:09:00] EL_Whistey: mindfuck is not a HLL.
[02:09:00] Chutt: how about that shakespear language?
[02:10:00] EL_Whistey: English?
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[02:10:00] Chutt: http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report . . . espeare.html
[02:10:00] DCG: ooh, what about that one that uses varying types of whitespace
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[02:10:00] EL_Whistey: The 2d language?
[02:11:00] EL_Whistey: I don't think you guys really know what you have. I think you're way too close to the trees.
[02:11:00] DCG: thats cause we are up here chillin with the high level languages.
[02:11:00] EL_Whistey: And your duelling banjos routine doesn't help.
[02:11:00] DCG: banjos? i hate banjos.
[02:11:00] Chutt: know what i have?
[02:12:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, a perty mouth?
[02:12:00] Chutt: i think i know what i have quite well
[02:12:00] EL_Whistey: Oh, that was a rhetorical question.
[02:12:00] EL_Whistey: I don't think you know where the value of what you do resides.
[02:12:00] ** DCG passes around some beer to everyone but EL_Whistey **
[02:13:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, heh, yeah, just to the cousins.
[02:13:00] Chutt: the value of what i do?
[02:13:00] Chutt: heh
[02:13:00] EL_Whistey: you, collectively.
[02:13:00] Chutt: i have a project that i work on in my spare time
[02:13:00] EL_Whistey: I have no idea what you do, personally, Chutt.
[02:13:00] EL_Whistey: apart from berate passing users.
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[02:13:00] DCG: passing?
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[02:13:00] Chutt: which attracts crazy people like nobody's business
[02:14:00] Chutt: not really sure why it does, but, it does
[02:14:00] awb4422: I'm having a little issue with apache...i think
[02:14:00] EL_Whistey: Are you implying I'm a crazy user, Chutt?
[02:14:00] rw`: awb4422, hahaha
[02:14:00] DCG: awb4422: what kinda symptoms?
[02:14:00] awb4422: all my shows come up in mythweb correctly under recorded programs, as in they are all there, and when I ssh in they are too
[02:15:00] EL_Whistey: (leaving aside the fact that it's an ad hominem)
[02:15:00] awb4422: but when i browse directly out to the folder via firefox, they arent there
[02:15:00] awb4422: the folder is symlinked if that matters. i've restarted apache to no avail
[02:15:00] DCG: awb4422: can you stream/download them from the links in mythweb?
[02:15:00] awb4422: i also have a cron job for mythlink, and it is still running
[02:15:00] Chutt: awb4422, 2 gig file support
[02:16:00] awb4422: no, thats why i have a setup like this. I wanted to download them from mythweb, but couldnt get it working
[02:16:00] DCG: strange.
[02:16:00] EL_Whistey: It's fair enough that you impute that I'm insane. After all, I was implying that mythtv devs are a bunch of banjo playing incestuous hillbillies :)
[02:16:00] Chutt: ie, your apache doesn't have it, so it's not showing the files
[02:16:00] awb4422: thought that was fixed?
[02:16:00] Chutt: i would assume not =
[02:16:00] Chutt: err, =)
[02:16:00] awb4422: guess not since i cant see them lol
[02:17:00] Chutt: put a smaller file in that directory, just to check
[02:18:00] awb4422: some of the other shows show up
[02:18:00] awb4422: and, yes they are less than 2 gig
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[02:21:00] awb4422: so is there a way to fix this? i've seen it pop up from time to time on the mailing list
[02:22:00] Chutt: dunno
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[02:26:00] EL_Whistey: It'd be really nice if the front end was capable of a little more multithreading, you know.
[02:27:00] EL_Whistey: Sadly, that's a major task, as it's been written.
[02:27:00] Chutt: libmythui
[02:27:00] Chutt: new ui code
[02:28:00] EL_Whistey: Probably what it needs is a recognition that the front end is managing displays like the back end is managing receivers.
[02:28:00] Chutt: huh?
[02:28:00] EL_Whistey: And a reframing of the problem as less of a menu system, and more of a window manager.
[02:29:00] Chutt: again, 'huh?'
[02:29:00] EL_Whistey: After all, window managers are designed to handle the screen as a resource.
[02:30:00] EL_Whistey: What, Chutt? The menu system doesn't provide the notion that you might want to suspend a mythmusic song play, do something else, then come back to it.
[02:30:00] Chutt: sure it does
[02:30:00] Chutt: ever ripped a dvd?
[02:30:00] EL_Whistey: Because it's been designed as a menu – a tree – all state is implied by tree address.
[02:30:00] Chutt: it does _exactly_ that
[02:30:00] EL_Whistey: yes, it does some multithreading. That's good.
[02:30:00] Chutt: mythmusic wasn't written to be suspended, is all
[02:30:00] EL_Whistey: yeah, cooperative multitasking. tsk.
[02:30:00] Chutt: that has absolutely nothing to do with the menu system
[02:30:00] EL_Whistey: sure it does.
[02:30:00] Chutt: no, it doesn't
[02:31:00] Chutt: if mythdvd can do it easily, it has nothing to do with the underlying menu system
[02:31:00] EL_Whistey: It's always possible to write code to do it. It's just not well supported.
[02:31:00] Chutt: it doesn't have to be supported
[02:31:00] Chutt: rather – it already is, because there's nothing preventing a plugin from doing it
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[02:31:00] EL_Whistey: Right. Who needs high level abstractions when you've got C++.
[02:32:00] Chutt: what the hell does that have to do with c++?
[02:32:00] EL_Whistey: Mindset.
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[02:32:00] Chutt: huh?
[02:32:00] EL_Whistey: Mind. Set.
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[02:32:00] Chutt: you really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
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[02:32:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, at least one of us doesn't.
[02:32:00] Chutt: right, and that's you.
[02:33:00] EL_Whistey: Must be, yeah.
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[02:33:00] Chutt: seeing as i wrote the code in the first place, i think i know what i'm talking about with respect to the 'menu system'
[02:33:00] EL_Whistey: Well, that's one of us.
[02:33:00] Chutt: do you know why mythmusic doesn't allow you to stop and resume? because it was written to act like it currently does
[02:34:00] Chutt: that has nothing to do with 'the menu system'
[02:34:00] Chutt: and everything to do with the way that particular plugin was written
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[02:34:00] Chutt: but of course, it must be because it was written in c++
[02:34:00] Chutt: instead of tcl
[02:35:00] EL_Whistey: There's no support for suspending and resuming a task. Plugins aren't really distinct processes, they have no real processing context.
[02:35:00] Chutt: and not because of how it was originally designed
[02:35:00] Chutt: how don't they have a processing context?
[02:35:00] EL_Whistey: And that's because things which hang off menus generally don't. That's how it's conceived.
[02:35:00] Chutt: please explain how they don't have a processing context
[02:35:00] Chutt: if mythdvd can take you back to a rip in progress
[02:35:00] EL_Whistey: Well, they're not processes, are they.
[02:35:00] Chutt: they certainly could be if a plugin wanted to
[02:36:00] Chutt: absolutely nothing preventing a plugin from initializing a long-lived thread
[02:36:00] EL_Whistey: I presume mythdvd maintains its own processing context.
[02:36:00] Chutt: if it were written to do so
[02:36:00] EL_Whistey: it would be nice if they all did it, but then mythui would have to be a window manager, and a manager of audio and video output resources.
[02:37:00] EL_Whistey: if they all did it without needing special code.
[02:37:00] Chutt: why would it have to be a window manager?
[02:37:00] Chutt: what special code?
[02:37:00] EL_Whistey: That's more what WMs do. They manage the screen as a resource.
[02:37:00] EL_Whistey: That's their job.
[02:37:00] EL_Whistey: Whatever special code mythdvd has which mythmusic does not.
[02:37:00] Chutt: there is no "special code"
[02:38:00] EL_Whistey: mythdvd has to manage its own restoration of state.
[02:38:00] Chutt: no it doesn't
[02:38:00] EL_Whistey: It doesn't have to redraw its window and stuff?
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[02:39:00] EL_Whistey: Is it aware of the fact that it's being re-entered?
[02:39:00] EL_Whistey: If so, then that code which is there to deal with the re-entry.
[02:39:00] EL_Whistey: If not, then there's no reason mythmusic can't do it natively.
[02:39:00] Chutt: nope
[02:39:00] Chutt: i said that minutes ago
[02:39:00] Chutt: there is absolutely no reason why mythmusic couldn't be written to do it
[02:40:00] Chutt: repeating myself – it was designed to act as it currently does
[02:40:00] EL_Whistey: How much work to do that?
[02:40:00] Chutt: not much, really
[02:40:00] EL_Whistey: I wonder why. What would persuade someone to prevent something from persisting?
[02:40:00] Chutt: because i didn't want it to
[02:40:00] EL_Whistey: Possibly it would be difficult to get it to release audio resources.
[02:40:00] Chutt: nope
[02:41:00] Chutt: be quite easy
[02:41:00] EL_Whistey: Oh. So it was a conscious decision? Why, man?
[02:41:00] Chutt: because that's how i designed it
[02:41:00] EL_Whistey: begging the question.
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[02:41:00] Chutt: obviously, i didn't have you around to change my mind earlier
[02:42:00] Chutt: and tell me how to design things properly!
[02:42:00] EL_Whistey: So defensive.
[02:42:00] Chutt: because you're not listening to me
[02:42:00] Chutt: Chutt mythmusic wasn't written to be suspended, is all
[02:42:00] Chutt: one of the first things i said
[02:42:00] Kite-: hi, i'm new and i have my myth box doing it's first recording tonight, but i have a question
[02:42:00] Chutt: over 10 minutes ago
[02:43:00] Kite-: can i watch something else while it is recording?
[02:43:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah, but that's a non-statement, I was tempted to post the URL to Master of the Obvious when I heard it.
[02:43:00] xris: Chutt: and doesn't mfd/mfe invalidate that whole issue?
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[02:43:00] Chutt: xris, that's why i never bothered fixing anything
[02:44:00] Chutt: but that'd be much too difficult to explain to this guy
[02:44:00] xris: lol
[02:44:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah, that's because I'm an idiot.
[02:45:00] Chutt: i think anyone who's bothered to read what you're saying agrees
[02:45:00] rw`: Kite-, you can do this if you have two tuners.
[02:45:00] ip_goat_rodeo: Oh man, looks like I missed some great drama
[02:45:00] EL_Whistey: Can't play the 5-string clawhammer, can't distill moonshine.
[02:46:00] rw`: ip_goat_rodeo, it's all logged :)
[02:47:00] ** EL_Whistey puts on Foggy Mountain Breakdown. **
[02:47:00] APE (n=Cheesy@adsl-68-122-238-132.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[02:47:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: so you can distil moonshine?
[02:48:00] EL_Whistey: No, DCG. It's part of my hilbilly trope.
[02:48:00] APE: theres a reason they outlawed the stuff
[02:48:00] jonK: I've done that
[02:48:00] APE: dumb rednecks couldnt be intelligent enough to use a proper seal for their stills
[02:48:00] jonK: I built a .75 meter reflux column
[02:49:00] APE: same reason nero went nuts
[02:49:00] GeckoFiend: You know it's been a while since we had a "jackass who knows better than the developers of MythTV yet strangely hasn't done shit that compares"
[02:49:00] Chutt: geckofiend, tcl compares!
[02:49:00] EL_Whistey: GeckoFiend, apparently nothing compares. And nice use of 'jackass', there.
[02:49:00] GeckoFiend: it's UBER
[02:49:00] Chutt: cuz, you know, it's so popular
[02:49:00] Chutt: there's 400 whole projects using it on freshmeat!
[02:49:00] GeckoFiend: hey AOL uses tcl!! that makes it #1 in my book
[02:50:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, honestly, when people use such outrageous fallacies in interpersonal argument, I wonder about their ability to code.
[02:50:00] jonK: after a dual distillation I would get out 90–93% pure ethanol
[02:50:00] Chutt: yeah, i can't code worth jack
[02:50:00] EL_Whistey: It seems like there's some disconnect between English logic and Code logic.
[02:50:00] GeckoFiend: EL_Whistey yeaaaaah
[02:50:00] Chutt: because i don't bother to argue with people properly on irc
[02:50:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, you probably can.
[02:50:00] EL_Whistey: I would suggest 'can't' not 'don't'
[02:50:00] Chutt: oooh
[02:50:00] Chutt: tcl has almost 900 projects listed on sourceforge
[02:51:00] Chutt: that's a lot!
[02:51:00] jonK: I'd ferment corn suguar (dextrose) with strains of yeast that could ferment to abotu 18%
[02:51:00] EL_Whistey: It means you're really not open to other viewpoints.
[02:51:00] Chutt: naw, i'm open to other viewpoints
[02:51:00] jonK: distill out, and then cut with water to 40proof
[02:51:00] Chutt: those viewpoints just have to have merit, is all
[02:51:00] EL_Whistey: Because you can't seem to hear the logic, or respond in kind.
[02:51:00] GeckoFiend: not from people who don't have a clue nope none of us are
[02:51:00] Chutt: what logic?
[02:51:00] jonK: add flavoring and enjoy
[02:51:00] Chutt: you're not being logical =)
[02:51:00]
[02:51:00] EL_Whistey: GeckoFiend, again, you know zip about my clue level, or abilities.
[02:51:00] jonK: made gin/rum etc.. teh same way you make apple juice
[02:51:00] APE: pfft
[02:52:00] EL_Whistey: Such presumptuous fellers.
[02:52:00] Chutt: i know about certain inabilities
[02:52:00] ** EL_Whistey listens to wildwood flahr. **
[02:52:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, I'll bet you do.
[02:52:00] Chutt: like, say, the inability to search for existing bug reports
[02:52:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you seem to have attracted a crowd of shine buddys.
[02:52:00] ** APE wouldnt touch the stuff **
[02:52:00] GeckoFiend: I've read what you've said in here. it's pretty clear you're clueless
[02:52:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, they were here already, hidin' in the woods.
[02:52:00] APE: but making it is as easy as leaving a bunch of apples in a barrel in hillbilly country
[02:52:00] jonK: bah, at this point for the effort, I'd rather just put down my $30 for 750ml's of hangar 1
[02:53:00] APE: cant make good applejack unless it gets below 0
[02:53:00] jonK: ape, that just mashes
[02:53:00] jonK: you still need an apparatus of somekind to get to a content more thatn 12–15%
[02:53:00] APE: thats already better than 99% of beer available in mass consumption
[02:53:00] jonK: beer, still love makin' the beer though
[02:54:00] jonK: plus, no throny federal crimes being committed in making beer
[02:54:00] jonK: (thank you jimmy carter)
[02:54:00] EL_Whistey: This is surreal.
[02:54:00] APE: unless you enjoy only drinking an ounce of shine a day theres no point in refining it to much more
[02:54:00] APE: and just an ounce
[02:54:00] jonK: i don't think you can call it shine unless it's distilled
[02:54:00] APE: i knew a guy whod mix in 95% pure into smoothies
[02:55:00] jonK: yes, cause nothing mixes better than dairy products and alcohol
[02:55:00] APE: wasnt even a whole shotglass
[02:55:00] APE: dairy!=smoothie
[02:55:00] APE: smoothie tends to be of a fruit nature
[02:55:00] APE: your thinking of a shake
[02:55:00] jonK: yogurt?
[02:55:00] jonK: yogurt often a smoothie component
[02:55:00] EL_Whistey: GeckoFiend, I won't drink the kool-aid, that doesn't mean I'm clueless.
[02:56:00] jonK: Hey! kool-aid man!
[02:56:00] EL_Whistey: I am completely ignorant of mythtv, its implementation, its culture, and its preferred banjo stylings, but I am not stupid.
[02:57:00] EL_Whistey: I can see a lot of value in mythtv. It doesn't accord with the collective self-evaluation.
[02:57:00] EL_Whistey: That doesn't mean I am enemy.
[02:57:00] GeckoFiend: clueless jackass but not stupid
[02:57:00] Chutt: no, you're just silly
[02:57:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, I know you've invested a lot of good work in mythtv.
[02:57:00] jonK: wow, I must have missed some first rate assholerrey
[02:57:00] Chutt: not really
[02:57:00] SlicerDicer-: mellow greetings
[02:58:00] EL_Whistey: That doesn't mean it's not worth more broken into parts.
[02:58:00] SlicerDicer-: enhance your calm
[02:58:00] Chutt: what parts?
[02:58:00] EL_Whistey: I think the livetv stuff is very good. Backend seems to be very good.
[02:58:00] EL_Whistey: Scheduling, etc, couldn't really improve much on it.
[02:59:00] SlicerDicer-: I need a young priest and a old priest the power of Christ compells you the power of Christ compells you! ok gona vom
[02:59:00] SlicerDicer-: if that does not kill the tension nothing will! :)
[02:59:00] SlicerDicer-: hows everybody doing today
[02:59:00] EL_Whistey: I think a lot of thought has gone into trying to make the thing usable with a remote.
[02:59:00] fronkonstin (n=alvaro@marsupilamis.thehackers.org) has joined #mythtv-users
[02:59:00] EL_Whistey: That's no mean feat, and it's quite uncommon in open source stuff.
[03:00:00] EL_Whistey: The graphics are pretty. Theming is good, and makes sense for a retail product.
[03:00:00] Chutt: geckofiend, hey, you see xris's bug report about that midnight theme, btw?
[03:00:00] mchou (n=mchou@c-67-161-61-109.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:00:00] SlicerDicer-: remotes work just fine from what I have seen EL_Whistey at least for my myth setup
[03:00:00] Chutt: a 'retail product'?
[03:00:00] EL_Whistey: SlicerDicer, yep, that's what I said.
[03:00:00] fronkonstin: anybody using avidemux to slice mpeg4 video without having to reencode?
[03:00:00] SlicerDicer-: its really nice actually to be able to use a remote to control everything
[03:00:00] EL_Whistey: Something aimed at users.
[03:00:00] fangji (i=JamesF@58.24.254.57) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:00:00] Chutt: that's not what 'retail product' means
[03:01:00] EL_Whistey: Whatever it means to you, Chutt.
[03:01:00] SlicerDicer-: I have a keyboard shoved under the tv stand just incase but most of the time I dont need it
[03:01:00] djperegrine (n=djperegr@c-24-5-196-208.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:01:00] Chutt: to me?
[03:01:00] ip_goat_rodeo: consumer product would probably be a better description
[03:01:00] EL_Whistey: Here we go again.
[03:01:00] Chutt: uh, weren't you the one throwing around the dictionary a while back?
[03:01:00] SlicerDicer-: fronkonstin, reencode does not take that long
[03:01:00] djperegrine: Ok so I have a bunch of .nuv files now, but I wnat it so its converted to .mpeg automagicly , and the .nuv files are deleted is that possible?
[03:01:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, I also mentioned your inability to see the wood for the trees.
[03:01:00] fronkonstin: how much is not that long? :)
[03:01:00] SlicerDicer-: fronkonstin, hang on I will tell you my settings they werk great
[03:01:00] fangji: does anyone use Leadtek winfast TV2000XP Expert ?
[03:01:00] Chutt: riiight
[03:01:00] Chutt: i forgot
[03:02:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: i think your time would be better spent writing that TCL os you are dreaming of.
[03:02:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, tcl o/s? Nah, my o/s writing days are over.
[03:02:00] Chutt: no, he shoudln't do that, this is amusing
[03:02:00] EL_Whistey: Hands up everyone who's written an o/s here?
[03:02:00] ** EL_Whistey puts his hand up. **
[03:03:00] mchou: EL_Whistey: any OS we know?
[03:03:00] SlicerDicer-: video = DVD, audio = Lame, output fmt = MPEG A+V (PS) fronkonstin I dont really set any filters and it will take about 6 mins to convert it from .nuv to .mpg that can be converted to dvd format using dvdstyler and make menus
[03:03:00] APE: depends on your definition of "os"
[03:03:00] ip_goat_rodeo: depends on what you call an o/s
[03:03:00] Agrajag-: fangji: yeah i have one of those
[03:03:00] SlicerDicer-: hi mchou
[03:03:00] EL_Whistey: mchou, I ported Minix to the 68k and then wrote a very small fast real time kernel, 56uS context switch on 16MHz 68K, 7uS latency.
[03:04:00] fronkonstin: SlicerDicer-: 6 mins for what length of video?
[03:04:00] mchou: hi SlicerDicer-
[03:04:00] EL_Whistey: There were about 100 lines of assembler, the rest was C++.
[03:04:00] EL_Whistey: It was roughly modelled on pSOS.
[03:04:00] SlicerDicer-: fronkonstin, well take Last of the Mohecians for example a very long movie took 6 mins to do
[03:04:00] mchou: SlicerDicer-: any progress with your compaq "tablet?"
[03:05:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: and i wrote a usermode os that allows binary compatibility between 4 different host oses.
[03:05:00] SlicerDicer-: mchou, I dont have the cash to get the microdrives I need yet
[03:05:00] fangji: my tv2000 xp can't use, How to install for mythtv?
[03:05:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, what's a 'usermode os' ?
[03:05:00] mofu (n=eric@pcp04232064pcs.plyntv01.mi.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:05:00] SlicerDicer-: I got another computer though mchou
[03:05:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: an os that runs exclusively inside another os.
[03:05:00] mchou: SlicerDicer-: another one??
[03:05:00] SlicerDicer-: yeah
[03:05:00] fangji: does I need patch kernel 2.6.12?
[03:05:00] fronkonstin: SlicerDicer-: that's really quick; I'll try that... I'm no expert in video codecs, and I wonder, how does DVD (mpeg2?) compare with mpeg4/divx?
[03:06:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, did you write it in tcl?
[03:06:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: no, c/c++
[03:06:00] SlicerDicer-: fronkonstin, I have no beef with doing it that way the quality is supurb by my standards but I record videos to where they are 3.8gb – 5.4gb
[03:06:00] DCG: tcl is the visual basic of the opensource world.
[03:06:00] SlicerDicer-: sometimes they require a reduction to make them fit on a dvd but thats not to bad still
[03:06:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah, that's not an unreasonable criticusm, DCG.
[03:07:00] SlicerDicer-: mchou, http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT6520149088.html
[03:07:00] SlicerDicer-: thats what I got
[03:07:00] EL_Whistey: However, I don't think it's well-founded. I think it's more accurately descriptive of PERL.
[03:07:00] SlicerDicer-: although I can connect a IDE drive to that thing so that one will be running sooner than the tablets as far as I can see right now
[03:07:00] mchou: SlicerDicer-: you shoulda just gotten an xbox :)
[03:08:00] fronkonstin: SlicerDicer-: thanks a lot, I'll try that way and see what I get
[03:08:00] EL_Whistey: tcl's a C library with a *very* simple language over it.
[03:08:00] SlicerDicer-: mchou, for 20$ total?
[03:08:00] fangji: Agrajag-, can you use this card in mythtv?
[03:08:00] DCG: hrm, tk = visual basic, tcl = basic,
[03:08:00] SlicerDicer-: haha they are fun machines to mess with to see what I can get a old computer to do
[03:08:00] SlicerDicer-: good amusement for 20$ is hard to find these days
[03:08:00] mchou: SlicerDicer-: where did you get it for $20?
[03:08:00] ** APE looks at his 286 **
[03:08:00] bin13 (n=bin33@dsl-38-117-145-134.pilosoft.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:08:00] Agrajag-: fangji: yes. load the bttv driver
[03:08:00] APE: i paid $10 for a 486
[03:08:00] EL_Whistey: I don't really see much similarity between basic and tcl.
[03:08:00] APE: and now its got win3.1 that has full net access
[03:08:00] APE: and rudimentry smb
[03:09:00] SlicerDicer-: I got the 2 tablets and the other one for 20$ total with 2 usb to ethernet thingos as well
[03:09:00] EL_Whistey: structurally. Except they're both typeless, I guess.
[03:09:00] SlicerDicer-: it was total cost 20$ for all 3 machines
[03:09:00] SlicerDicer-: APE, these are 266mhz tablets and a 200mhz box thing heh
[03:10:00] APE: this is a 133mhz amd 486
[03:10:00] APE: its fpu is crap so it barely runs duke 3d at 320x240
[03:10:00] SlicerDicer-: not bad
[03:10:00] SlicerDicer-: hehe
[03:10:00] fangji: Agrajag-, I modprobe bttv error, does I need patch kernel 2.6.12?
[03:10:00] SlicerDicer-: APE, old machines are always fun to see how far you can push them :)
[03:10:00] EL_Whistey: I was talking to a friend, works for a large telco, has about 5 mates there who also run mythtv. We were having a good old bitch about it.
[03:10:00] APE: yes
[03:10:00] APE: yes they are
[03:11:00] EL_Whistey: He was, really. About mythtv's inability to stream music as it does video.
[03:11:00] ** EL_Whistey was all 'refactor' **
[03:11:00] SlicerDicer-: APE, check out the tablets I got http://home.comcast.net/~slicerdicer/compaqthingies.jpg
[03:11:00] Chutt: yeah, because video streaming's similar to audio
[03:11:00] APE: not bad
[03:11:00] EL_Whistey: I'd have thought audio was a lot easier.
[03:11:00] Chutt: different protocols, generally
[03:11:00] APE: they look like compaq took spare monitor casings and cut them up though
[03:12:00] Chutt: but mfd/mfe stream audio easily.
[03:12:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: how about you port tcl over to the psp and i'll use it in my next project.
[03:12:00] Chutt: in svn
[03:12:00] EL_Whistey: No good reason they should be.
[03:12:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, what's psp?
[03:12:00] Chutt: historical reasons
[03:12:00] EL_Whistey: hysterical reasons, as my mate akpm says.
[03:12:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you lose 8 geek points.
[03:12:00] APE: sonys half-assed handheld
[03:12:00] SlicerDicer-: well APE they are not exactly tablets I would have to show you other pictures
[03:12:00] Chutt: might not be good, but it's nice to be compatible
[03:12:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, don't need 'em.
[03:13:00] APE: shine lets you forget you lost em
[03:13:00] Chutt: ooh, i just got a great suggestion
[03:13:00] SlicerDicer-: http://www.to-tech.com/mobileviews/MSNC/Compaq-1A-1-small.jpg see they are more of a desktop thingo
[03:13:00] Chutt: i should write mythtv to run inside of emacs
[03:13:00] APE: looks similar to the iopener
[03:13:00] EL_Whistey: Ahh, ok. DCG, does it run under WinCE?
[03:13:00] SlicerDicer-: bingo!!!
[03:13:00] APE: but ill bet that has a better screen
[03:13:00] SlicerDicer-: yeah they built this one alot better than the iopener
[03:13:00] Chutt: i had an iopener
[03:13:00] EL_Whistey: tcl and tk already run under PDAs under WinCE.
[03:13:00] APE: one of my teachers hacked an iopener
[03:14:00] Chutt: i put a touch screen in it
[03:14:00] EL_Whistey: some of the tcl fiends swear by it.
[03:14:00] APE: overclocked it, added a fan and a lappy hdd
[03:14:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you can try porting wince if you feel like it. uses dual mips R3000 cpus.
[03:14:00] SlicerDicer-: APE, the cool thing about these is that they were in the box never opened
[03:14:00] Chutt: it cicked ass =)
[03:14:00] SlicerDicer-: cant beat taht :)
[03:14:00] SlicerDicer-: compaq tape seal was still on the boxes lol
[03:14:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, the answer is 'no' then. I'm highly unlikely to port tcl anywhere.
[03:14:00] SlicerDicer-: purchased then never used what some people do it astounding to me
[03:14:00] APE: might have been purchased in batch
[03:14:00] APE: and set aside when not needed
[03:15:00] APE: ive seen that sort of thing happen all the time
[03:15:00] SlicerDicer-: my neighbor had a software development firm in seattle that went belly up during the bubble so he had all this shit that he was selling at a garage sale
[03:15:00] SlicerDicer-: he said well I would rather give it to some nerd like you for a extreme low price than see them go in garbage
[03:15:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: those compaq IA;s?
[03:15:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, yeah
[03:15:00] SlicerDicer-: I got 2 of them
[03:16:00] APE: reminds me of when the vid game portion of atari keeled over
[03:16:00] APE: you could find alpine boards and manuals all over the place
[03:16:00] SlicerDicer-: hehe
[03:16:00] EL_Whistey: Conceptually, what does backend do? It manages and mediates access to receivers.
[03:16:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: where at?
[03:16:00] SlicerDicer-: neighbor who was selling them
[03:16:00] SlicerDicer-: garage sale
[03:16:00] DCG: dang
[03:16:00] SlicerDicer-: everybody wants one hehe
[03:16:00] ** ip_goat_rodeo now wants to kill the maintainers of the gv-mvp/rx patches for ivtv **
[03:16:00] DCG: i'm still looking for a 7" touchscreen for cheap to use in the living room.
[03:17:00] EL_Whistey: Conceptually, frontend should manage and mediate access to the client relevant resources – dvd cd audio rc video.
[03:17:00] APE: cheap?
[03:17:00] Chutt: <gasp>
[03:17:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: conceptually, we all can't stand you.
[03:17:00] Chutt: like mfd does?
[03:17:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, there was one on ebay for 40$
[03:17:00] APE: the best prices for vga based touch screens is ~$400
[03:17:00] Chutt: the 'myth frontend daemon'?
[03:17:00] Agrajag-: fangji; no
[03:17:00] APE: and still be worht a damn
[03:17:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, that's emotion, not concept.
[03:17:00] EL_Whistey: If you could tell the difference, your stuff might be worth a pinch.
[03:18:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: what is emotion if not a concept?
[03:18:00] ip_goat_rodeo: I've seen some cheaper ones at surplus places
[03:18:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, in your case? Emotion's a substitute.
[03:18:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: is a chicken not also the egg?
[03:18:00] Chutt: haha
[03:18:00] APE: to divert the topic slightl
[03:18:00] APE: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?m=/c . . . DEC3A844.DTL
[03:19:00] APE: that turtle has some bigass stones
[03:19:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, do you code mythtv?
[03:19:00] Chutt: no, he doesn't
[03:19:00] fangji: Agrajag, I dmesg get card=5 tuner=38(PLA) is right?
[03:19:00] EL_Whistey: colour me 'relieved'
[03:19:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: no, i write software for video game systems.
[03:19:00] fronkonstin (n=alvaro@marsupilamis.thehackers.org) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
[03:20:00] Agrajag-: fangji: no. mine is card=34 – you pasted that yesterday and it looked like you weren't even using the bttv driver.
[03:20:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, cool. I was technical director for a MMORPG development. I guess they're similar.
[03:20:00] Agrajag-: fangji: try loading the bttv driver with card=34
[03:20:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: no. not anywhere near it.
[03:20:00] Agrajag-: fangji: otherwise, i dont think you really do have what card you say you do
[03:20:00] EL_Whistey: No, you're right – the 3d immersive video stuff was just a client subcomponent of what I was doing.
[03:21:00] APE: i coded a guess the numbers game for basic that ran on an apple][
[03:21:00] Chutt: ape, that's awesome!
[03:21:00] APE: yeh, and when it ended and asked you to start another round
[03:21:00] APE: it asked if you wanted to lay an egg!
[03:21:00] DCG: i coded a screensaver for the apple ][... back in 1988
[03:21:00] EL_Whistey: I wrote a hard disk driver that ran under UCSD pascal under the starcard on an Apple][
[03:21:00] fangji: but I modprobe cx8800 card=34 tuner=38 always get error
[03:22:00] EL_Whistey: USCD pascal and CP/M. Next.
[03:22:00] Agrajag-: fangji: are you retarded? did i say bttv or did i say cx8800
[03:22:00] DCG: wooo.
[03:22:00] APE: everyone likes java
[03:22:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: i wrote an apple][ emulator from scratch for the dreamcast and xbox
[03:22:00] EL_Whistey: I liked Java when it was USCD Pascal.
[03:23:00] EL_Whistey: That is an achievement, DCG.
[03:23:00] DCG: (and the xbox version was the first legally developed emulator targeted at the xbox)
[03:23:00] Agrajag-: i wrote a program that made my e-penis the biggest
[03:23:00] APE: nuhuh
[03:23:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: what lines in the linux kernel would i find your name at?
[03:23:00] EL_Whistey: Just lemme know when the pissing contest is over.
[03:23:00] APE: i did that one
[03:23:00] APE: it also patched your 486 into being a pentium
[03:23:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, none at all! In fact, I promised never to write a line of code for Linux.
[03:24:00] DCG: thank god, we'd have some nasty TCL infection going.
[03:24:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, when Andrew Morton and I were working on his previous O/S, we formed a really close relationship.
[03:24:00] DCG: glad the TK configurator is gone now.
[03:24:00] EL_Whistey: I, frankly, don't like Linux.
[03:24:00] DCG: so why are you here?
[03:24:00] EL_Whistey: It works, that's all I care about.
[03:24:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, huh?
[03:24:00] Agrajag-: can you guys take this somewhere else
[03:25:00] EL_Whistey: Pissing contest over yet?
[03:26:00] DCG: eh?
[03:26:00] DCG: you're the only one pissing.
[03:26:00] Chutt: no, you're still here
[03:26:00] Agrajag-: EL_Whistey: don't gimme that you started it
[03:26:00] fangji (i=JamesF@58.24.254.57) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[03:26:00] SlicerDicer-: whats the lowest speed cpu anybody here has gotten the frontend to work on?
[03:27:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, you imagine I'm trying to put you down by criticising/critiquing mythtv?
[03:27:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: 733mhz PIII
[03:27:00] Chutt: no?
[03:27:00] EL_Whistey: No.
[03:27:00] Chutt: why would i do that?
[03:27:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, alright
[03:27:00] EL_Whistey: I had no idea you'd written the thing, when I started in on you. Or responded to your starting in on me.
[03:27:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: you could get it running on less but would have a hard time decoding video i think.
[03:27:00] Chutt: i honestly don't what you think
[03:27:00] EL_Whistey: Not that it'd have made any difference.
[03:28:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, I want to have it run on a 266mhz
[03:28:00] ** SlicerDicer- notes he is mad **
[03:28:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, missing 'care', or 'understand' ?
[03:28:00] DCG: you have a hardware mpeg2 decoder, maybe.
[03:28:00] SlicerDicer-: no hardware :/
[03:28:00] Chutt: 'care', of course
[03:28:00] rabies (n=mythtv@unaffiliated/rabies) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:28:00] rabies: hi
[03:28:00] DCG: well, you might get away with 320x240...
[03:28:00] rabies: how do i enable the poweroff option in mythtv?
[03:28:00] rabies: mythfrontend i mean
[03:28:00] DCG: but dvd res will eat a 266mhz machine
[03:28:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, thats what I was hoping was a low resolution
[03:29:00] DCG: rabies: setup, halt command.
[03:29:00] DCG: er
[03:29:00] rabies: DCG: mythtv-setup?
[03:29:00] DCG: no
[03:29:00] Chutt: man, i've got so many other people laughing at the channel logs right now
[03:29:00] rabies: i have the command set
[03:29:00] EL_Whistey: So mfd is a frontend demon, presumably, and it's written explicitly as a manager of the client/user resources?
[03:29:00] DCG: utilities/setup->general
[03:29:00] Chutt: this kicks ass
[03:29:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, yeah.
[03:29:00] SlicerDicer-: 800x600 at 16bit color what you think DCG?
[03:29:00] DCG: Chutt: me too, i invited my friend ape back when that shine comment came out.
[03:30:00] EL_Whistey: We haven't even started on the wisdom of using an sql db for interprocess comms.
[03:30:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: yea, you could maybe scale 400x288 to that.
[03:30:00] Chutt: when's it used like that?
[03:30:00] EL_Whistey: Another day.
[03:30:00] SlicerDicer-: mchou, must be rolling his eyes at me right now :)
[03:30:00] rabies: DCG: do you know?
[03:30:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, its fixed at 800x600
[03:30:00] rabies: DCG: i can set the key, but i dont know how to set a poweroff option
[03:30:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, front end writes to db, back end reads it. QED.
[03:31:00] Chutt: errr
[03:31:00] rabies: DCG: i set the command to "sudo halt" and the key is left as ESC
[03:31:00] Chutt: for what?
[03:31:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: no, i mean have the video scale up to 800x600 from 400x288...
[03:31:00] EL_Whistey: Am I mistaken? I must be, I guess – front can run remotely. My error.
[03:31:00] Chutt: how would you schedule programs to be recorded if the backend weren't running, if you had no where to store things?
[03:31:00] DCG: rabies: you see the option to poweroff when you exit frontend?
[03:31:00] SlicerDicer-: ohh they are 420x something I think
[03:32:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, I don't even want to go there atm. I'm not convinced it's a bad idea.
[03:32:00] rabies: DCG: no
[03:32:00] rabies: DCG: no option to power off
[03:32:00] DCG: rabies: hrm, odd. it should show up if you have that set.
[03:32:00] EL_Whistey: mfd ... is that what I see running on my screen, or is it in the future?
[03:33:00] Chutt: in the future
[03:33:00] rabies: DCG: it doesnt]
[03:33:00] ** EL_Whistey nods. Good stuff. **
[03:34:00] rabies: DCG: in the "halt command" i have "sudo halt"
[03:34:00] rabies: DCG: am i missing something?
[03:34:00] DCG: rabies: you might have to put the full path to each.
[03:34:00] Chutt: a combined front/backend won't have that option
[03:35:00] Chutt: it assumes that you have the auto shutdown/wakeup stuff setup in that situation
[03:35:00] Chutt: since it knows what's recording better than you do
[03:35:00] DCG: ah
[03:37:00] SlicerDicer-: DCG, image 480x480?
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[03:37:00] DCG: SlicerDicer-: thats prolly way overkill for a 266.
[03:38:00] DCG: especially since it will be scaling that to 800x600
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[03:39:00] DCG: i think it might handle 352x288 (vcd res) but not likely much more than that.
[03:39:00] rabies (n=mythtv@unaffiliated/rabies) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[03:41:00] Crazy6 (i=joe@PPP-36-130.caltech.edu) has joined #mythtv-users
[03:41:00] Crazy6: wow it does exist
[03:41:00] GreyFoxx: this channel ?:)
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[03:42:00] rabies: DCG: no option for it
[03:42:00] Crazy6: yeah
[03:42:00] Crazy6: hrm so I guess mythtv doesn't have a fancy tv listings interface like the tivo does, right?
[03:43:00] DCG: Crazy6: schedule -> program guide or watchtv -> menu -> program guide
[03:43:00] GreyFoxx: What do you mean? there is an EPG
[03:43:00] GreyFoxx: Hit M while watching LiveTV and pick the Program Guide, or You can get at it via the regular menus
[03:43:00] Crazy6: oh ok, well I mean I am jsut investigating right now, before I tak the plunge and buy all the hardware
[03:43:00] rabies: anyone know how to get the poweroff option when pressing ESC out of mythtv?
[03:43:00] rabies: er, out of mythfrontend
[03:43:00] rabies: i entered the halt command
[03:43:00] rabies: do i have to do something else?
[03:43:00] DCG: rabies: you on combined frontend/backend machine or seperate?
[03:44:00] GreyFoxx: rabies: If it's a combined mythfrontend+backend then it's not an option unles you edit the code to mythfrontend
[03:44:00] rabies: DCG: combined
[03:44:00] rabies: GreyFoxx: the code or a config file?
[03:44:00] GreyFoxx: code
[03:44:00] DCG: rabies: combined wont show the option ever.
[03:44:00] rabies: ugh
[03:44:00] GreyFoxx: programs/mythfrontend/main.cpp
[03:44:00] rabies: well i want the option
[03:44:00] rabies: i dont know cpp =\
[03:44:00] rabies: this mean i have to reinstall mythtv?
[03:44:00] GreyFoxx: It's literally one line to comment out heh
[03:44:00] Chutt: add a shutdown button to the menu .xml file
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[03:45:00] GreyFoxx: Yeah, the theme would be an option
[03:45:00] Crazy6: hrm there isnt a linux driver for the tuners on ATI all in wonder cards, are there?
[03:45:00] rabies: GreyFoxx: which line?
[03:45:00] rabies: Crazy6: gatos
[03:45:00] rabies: Chutt: where is that?
[03:45:00] Chutt: i dunno
[03:46:00] GreyFoxx: Line 500 in the latest svn version
[03:46:00] Chutt: no, he meant for the menu
[03:46:00] GreyFoxx: comment out "if (!backendOnLocalhost)"
[03:46:00] GreyFoxx: ahhh
[03:46:00] Chutt: oh, wiat
[03:46:00] Chutt: err, he asked you too =)
[03:46:00] GreyFoxx: hehe
[03:46:00] Chutt: sorry, i only read the highlighted lines
[03:47:00] GreyFoxx: hehe
[03:47:00] rabies: :)
[03:47:00] rabies: either or
[03:47:00] Chutt: the menu's no code change, just a restart of the frontend
[03:47:00] Chutt: you'd have an item that said 'shutdown' then
[03:47:00] EL_Whistey: Wow, dev list is quite thorough. Shame I didn't think to read it a week ago.
[03:47:00] rabies: that works, but i dunno which .xml file or the syntax
[03:47:00] GreyFoxx: That's likely the better option
[03:48:00] Chutt: i dunno either =)
[03:48:00] rabies: heh
[03:48:00] Chutt: i'd have to find it
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[03:48:00] DCG: wtf is with the winmyth team, i havent gotten a single release of winmyth to work, and my dsmyth setup is correct.
[03:48:00] GreyFoxx: Just add an EXEC line to execute halt ?
[03:48:00] rabies: i think its in /usr/share/mythtv
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[03:48:00] Chutt: dcg, they refused to port existing code
[03:48:00] Chutt: greyfoxx, yup
[03:48:00] DCG: yea, thats obvious
[03:48:00] Chutt: i thought there was a template for a shutdown button commented out in there
[03:48:00] DCG: by their "reverse engineering" of mythtv.
[03:48:00] GreyFoxx: Chutt: IU think there is.. there is also one for adding xawtv as an option
[03:49:00] DCG: i always laugh when someone reverse engineers open source software.
[03:49:00] Chutt: what's it do!@#!@#!
[03:49:00] Chutt: that stuff's really not that complicated
[03:50:00] rabies: ill just recompile
[03:50:00] rabies: settings shouldnt change anyway'
[03:50:00] Crazy6: rabies: any idea if that driver will be sufficient for mythtv?
[03:50:00] rabies: Crazy6: none at all
[03:50:00] Crazy6: blasted hell
[03:50:00] Chutt: 'no'
[03:50:00] DCG: its a shame knoppmyth doesnt boot in qemu :/
[03:50:00] Chutt: rabies, you want the commented out 'SHUTDOWN' section from mainmenu.xml
[03:51:00] Chutt: (in <prefix>/share/mythtv)
[03:51:00] Chutt: unless you use a different menu theme
[03:52:00] Chutt: then those are in themes/classic or themes/DVR
[03:52:00] rabies: Chutt: thanks
[03:52:00] rabies: Chutt: that works great
[03:53:00] Chutt: easier than recompiling =)
[03:53:00] GreyFoxx: heh
[03:54:00] rabies: what should i set as the command?
[03:54:00] rabies: /usr/bin/sudo halt
[03:54:00] rabies: that look good?
[03:54:00] Chutt: whatever you want it to be
[03:54:00] Chutt: it'll run anything you tell it to
[03:54:00] rabies: didnt run it
[03:55:00] Chutt: heh
[03:55:00] GreyFoxx: If you have a pvr350, and are using the decoder for playback, does the internal player fall back to xv if the content being played isn't mpeg2 ?
[03:55:00] Beirdo: give full path for halt too maybe
[03:55:00] rabies: just ignores it
[03:55:00] GreyFoxx: Or just refuse to play ?
[03:56:00] Chutt: oh wait
[03:56:00] Chutt: change that <action>SHUTDOWN</action>
[03:56:00] rabies: did
[03:56:00] Chutt: to <exec>/usr/bin/sudo halt</exec>
[03:56:00] rabies: ah, ok
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[03:56:00] Chutt: err
[03:56:00] Chutt: one sec, lemme check that format
[03:57:00] rabies: the button disappeared
[03:57:00] Chutt: <action>EXEC /usr/bin/sudo halt</action>
[03:57:00] Chutt: there we go
[03:57:00] Chutt: been ages since i've done any of that
[03:57:00] rabies: k
[03:57:00] rabies: heh, thx
[03:57:00] rabies (n=mythtv@unaffiliated/rabies) Quit ("Lost terminal")
[03:58:00] Chutt: i take it it worked
[04:02:00] GreyFoxx: doh
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[04:03:00] EL_Whistey: Cool. All I have to do is move back to 7120 and I'm sweet.
[04:03:00] EL_Whistey: And warn all my cronies to subscribe to dev before using svn.
[04:03:00] EL_Whistey: or give it a miss entirely.
[04:04:00] Chutt: that'd be preferred.
[04:05:00] eiGh6iex: We're moving to svn at work, so I guess it means I have to figure it out.
[04:06:00] KillerBunny (i=Killer@port149.ds1-arno.adsl.cybercity.dk) Quit ("Leaving")
[04:06:00] EL_Whistey: I recommend http://mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythInfo be modified to mention dev list here: 'If you're using CVS, it's also a very good idea to subscribe to the commits list'
[04:07:00] EL_Whistey: Secondly, since this 'mythtv-users' channel refers to it, http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/wiki/index.php/FAQ#Do . . . g_tracker.3F should also probably be amended accordingly
[04:07:00] EL_Whistey: That would have the effect of justifying your flaming people who did what I did :)
[04:07:00] Chutt: naw, i still think common sense covers it
[04:07:00] Beirdo: so maybe you should update it, EL_Whistey
[04:07:00] GreyFoxx: EL_Whistey: It's a wiki, you vcan edit it yourself (at least the mythtv.beirdo.ca one. I have not looked at the other)
[04:07:00] Beirdo: it's a frigging wiki
[04:08:00] EL_Whistey: Might conceivably reduce your already clearly unsupportable workload.
[04:08:00] Chutt: and if you're on the commits list as you say, every single email you're getting from it has the url of the bug tracker on it
[04:08:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, sure. You just like to complain about people making that error, because it gives you an excuse to feel good.
[04:09:00] Chutt: actually, let's look at the duplicate bug count
[04:09:00] EL_Whistey: Let's not, and say we did ... kinda like the docco.
[04:09:00] EL_Whistey: Beirdo, it's a frigging wiki with a login screen.
[04:10:00] Chutt: 260 total bugs since the switch to trac
[04:10:00] GreyFoxx: Hrm, almost scheduled maintenance time. Time to go find my drill
[04:11:00] Chutt: 9 duplicates?
[04:11:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, here's the bottom line, dude – you have user docs, they mention bugtracking, you imply I lack common sense and so on, yet bitch about the duplication.
[04:11:00] Chutt: i have user docs?
[04:11:00] Beirdo: EL_Whistey, so create a login and edit
[04:11:00] Beirdo: don't be so dense :)
[04:11:00] Chutt: i don't think my user docs mention a bug tracker at all
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[04:11:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, heh, so what're you bitching about? 9/260 is < 5%
[04:11:00] Chutt: that's what i'm getting at
[04:11:00] EL_Whistey: ah, ok, who's in charge of mythtv.org?
[04:11:00] Chutt: _most_ people search first
[04:12:00] EL_Whistey: Nah, *most* people can't be fucked to report bugs in the first place.
[04:12:00] Chutt: um, we're obviously referring to those that do
[04:13:00] EL_Whistey: Just don't take it so personally.
[04:13:00] Chutt: ah, and 3 of these duplicates were actually valid
[04:13:00] Chutt: different crashes with the same root cause
[04:14:00] EL_Whistey: anyway, who's in charge of mythtv?
[04:14:00] Chutt: me
[04:14:00] Chutt: i'm not going to add something that says you should be on the dev list if you're using dev software
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[04:14:00] Chutt: or at least be reading it occasionally, such as before you update
[04:14:00] ** EL_Whistey shrugs, like I care. **
[04:14:00] Chutt: that's common sense.
[04:14:00] EL_Whistey: You're the man with the problem.
[04:15:00] Chutt: riiight, mr. i can't be assed to search
[04:15:00] EL_Whistey: Now I know, I'll certainly do that in future.
[04:15:00] dopester (n=dopester@user-0c8hs63.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[04:15:00] EL_Whistey: BTW, nice kwic search on the dev list.
[04:15:00] EL_Whistey: Oh, that's right, it doesn't have one.
[04:16:00] Chutt: um
[04:16:00] Chutt: there's one linked to right beside the link to sign up for it
[04:16:00] EL_Whistey: You are really more interested in proving your thesis that it's common sense, than doing anything even trivial to prevent its recurrance.
[04:16:00] Chutt: i'm sorry you can't read, but that's really not my problem.
[04:16:00] EL_Whistey: Can't read which?
[04:17:00] Chutt: your current bitching about the lack of searching for the dev list
[04:17:00] EL_Whistey: My error. People make errors. That's common sense.
[04:17:00] Raven_301 (n=raven_30@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3566698.sympatico.ca) Quit ()
[04:17:00] Chutt: you make lots of errors, don't you?
[04:17:00] EL_Whistey: Sure do.
[04:17:00] EL_Whistey: My buglist is private, though, so you can't tell me about 'em.
[04:18:00] Chutt: there _is_ the lists, which work just fine for general reporting of bugs
[04:19:00] EL_Whistey: If you have a preferred method for reporting bugs and problems, then it would seem to me to be common sense to document your expectations clearly on mythtv.org, rather than bitching when they're not fulfilled.
[04:19:00] Chutt: but of course, since they're not searchable except by people that can read, that makes it difficult to see if you're reporting a duplicate
[04:19:00] EL_Whistey: But that's entirely your biz. You may well prefer the bitching.
[04:20:00] EL_Whistey: Yep, keep telling yourself I can't read, because that fixes the problem.
[04:20:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you have much free time, yes?
[04:20:00] EL_Whistey: Hey, mr I CAN READ, is dysfunctional one word, or two?
[04:20:00] Chutt: heh
[04:20:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, yeah, it's good.
[04:21:00] EL_Whistey: You ought to try it. Oh, maybe you can't.
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[04:21:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: might i suggest the bar scene, there has been a significant reduction of your type there...
[04:21:00] tetra: hi
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[04:22:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, I have no idea what you're talking about, but I suspect they're not the kind of bars I frequent.
[04:22:00] tetra: anyone run mythtv on a VIA MII-6000 motherboard? I'm wondering if it is fast enough
[04:22:00] eiGh6iex: tetra: There's a ton of discussion about mini-itx on the mailing list archives.
[04:23:00] tetra: eiGh6iex: i just searched and didn't find anything relevant to the MII 6000
[04:24:00] tetra: it only has a 600 MHz CPU
[04:26:00] tetra: thanks...
[04:27:00] travolta: xbox is able to run mythfrontend
[04:27:00] travolta: and it has 64mb ram and a p3
[04:27:00] tetra: a p3–733 is much faster than a VIA C3 600 MHz
[04:28:00] EL_Whistey: This thing's logged, right? Whereabouts?
[04:28:00] travolta: have you tried playing mpegs on it? in like xine or mplayer?
[04:29:00] tetra: travolta: me?
[04:29:00] EL_Whistey: I wanna share the joy.
[04:29:00] travolta: yea
[04:29:00] tetra: travolta: I haven't bought it yet
[04:29:00] travolta: like in xine/mplayer
[04:29:00] travolta: oh
[04:29:00] tetra: travolta: i'm interested in a fanless system (not just for mythtv but a primary reason)
[04:29:00] travolta: This channel is logged – http://mythtv.beirdo.ca/ircLog/
[04:30:00] Chutt: or search for #mythtv-users irc log on google
[04:30:00] Chutt: kinda scary how you can ask it for stuff
[04:30:00] Chutt: and it knows
[04:30:00] EL_Whistey: Yep, I have it, thanks.
[04:30:00] Chutt: it's magic!
[04:30:00] EL_Whistey: Maybe they use C++?
[04:32:00] fatmatt: anyone know where I would look to find a listing of available/detected audio devices?
[04:32:00] Chutt: no, i'm sure google is written in tcl
[04:32:00] Chutt: cat /dev/sndstat
[04:33:00] fatmatt: cat: /dev/sndstat: No such device
[04:34:00] fatmatt: this is annoying, I've screwed something up here
[04:34:00] EL_Whistey: Nah, surely not tcl. They'd be using mysql wouldn't they?
[04:34:00] Chutt: if you're using alsa, there's always /proc/asound
[04:34:00] EL_Whistey: Probably because they too couldn't configure postgresql.
[04:34:00] Chutt: you think that's why myth uses mysql?
[04:34:00] Chutt: heh
[04:34:00] EL_Whistey: I have no idea. I have slightly less interest.
[04:35:00] Chutt: then why say that?
[04:35:00] EL_Whistey: Why, you think I think you can't configure postgresql?
[04:35:00] Chutt: sure seemed that way
[04:36:00] EL_Whistey: I didn't notice too many consistency checks in the mysql db. Did I miss 'em, or we don't believe in 'em?
[04:37:00] StillBob is now known as Bob-Laptop
[04:37:00] Bob-Laptop is now known as StillBob
[04:37:00] fatmatt: Chutt: I'm using alsa, mythtv is pointed at /dev/dsp0 but I get a device not found error
[04:37:00] Chutt: heh
[04:37:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, must be me throwing out some random plausibly deniable insult. I'm getting the mythtv dev culture down.
[04:37:00] fatmatt: I've also got a soundblaster on /dev/dsp1 that works..
[04:38:00] Chutt: what are you talking about?
[04:38:00] EL_Whistey: It's complicated.
[04:38:00] fatmatt: does alsa still use /dev/dsp or is there another device?
[04:38:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: i'm sorry, i forgot i had the infinite implausiblity engine running.
[04:38:00] EL_Whistey: So, we don't use triggers or sql scripting or anything to ensure db consistency? Because we don't believe in them?
[04:38:00] Chutt: fatmatt, try without the 0
[04:38:00] tetra: fatmatt: I like using the OSS emulation in alsa to provide /dev/dsp
[04:39:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, yay, you can refer to Doug Adams.
[04:39:00] Chutt: because i'm using the database for storage, and that's all
[04:39:00] DCG: doug who?
[04:39:00] Chutt: no complicated stuff
[04:39:00] Agrajag-: douglas adams
[04:39:00] Chutt: dcg just watches movies, he doesn't read stuff
[04:39:00] Chutt: obviously!
[04:39:00] Agrajag-: look guys im at work and not getting any work done because of this conversation
[04:39:00] EL_Whistey: It's a simple Q. mythtv doesn't use db scripting, and I am wondering whether it's because we don't believe in them.
[04:40:00] Agrajag-: can you put it on hold and come back to it in a couple of hours or something
[04:40:00] EL_Whistey: Agrajag, gimme your supervisor's email, we'll fix that.
[04:40:00] Chutt: agrajag, i've been trying to fix a lameass bug for hours now in work stuff
[04:40:00] DCG: Chutt: actually i am quite familiar with HG2G, read the book, played both games watched both movies.
[04:40:00] Chutt: recompile, test, recompile
[04:40:00] Agrajag-: haha
[04:40:00] Chutt: dcg, just kidding :p
[04:41:00] EL_Whistey: Played both games! Priceless!
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[04:42:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: well, they changed things from the original
[04:42:00] EL_Whistey: no, no, the idea that you get familiar with something like HHGTTG by playing the games.
[04:43:00] EL_Whistey: nevermind.
[04:43:00] DCG: you obviously can't read, since you skipped ", read the book, "
[04:44:00] EL_Whistey: It was originally a radio play. I find that superior to the book. Bit like Under Milkwood, in that respect.
[04:44:00] EL_Whistey: You get more out of it when you see/hear it performed, don't you think?
[04:44:00] DCG: not really.
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[04:45:00] DCG: its better to get your own idea of things are then trust actors (of any type)
[04:45:00] EL_Whistey: You prefer the script of under milkwood to the performance?
[04:45:00] DCG: i prefer talking to ChanServ vs talking to you.
[04:45:00] EL_Whistey: I guess you prefer the libretto of don giovanni to the opera.
[04:46:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, yeah, more your speed.
[04:46:00] Chutt: chanserv's probably written in tcl, though
[04:46:00] Chutt: so i dunno about talking to it
[04:46:00] EL_Whistey: If not, it ought to be.
[04:46:00] EL_Whistey: Hey, eggdrop!
[04:46:00] DCG: you do realize you are wasting effort.
[04:46:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, are you written in tcl?
[04:46:00] DCG: Chutt: depends on the implementation
[04:47:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: nah, i'm written in bourne sh.
[04:47:00] Chutt: there _were_ about 3x more shell script projects on sf than tcl ones
[04:47:00] Chutt: so that's likely
[04:48:00] EL_Whistey: Hey, there's < 10 mythtvs. That proves bourne shell is superior.
[04:48:00] Chutt: there's multiple mythtv projects?
[04:48:00] EL_Whistey: Keep going the way you're going.
[04:48:00] Chutt: heh
[04:49:00] Chutt: you're going to fork it?
[04:49:00] ** DCG hopes EL_Whistey meets the chutney ferret. **
[04:49:00] EL_Whistey: Nah. I would consider gutting it though.
[04:49:00] Chutt: yeah, i doubt that
[04:49:00] EL_Whistey: Why?
[04:49:00] Chutt: well, see, there's this small reading requirement
[04:50:00] EL_Whistey: I'll wait for the movie, like DCG.
[04:50:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, are you implying your code is hard to read?
[04:50:00] Chutt: no, i did say 'small'
[04:50:00] tetra: anyone know if mythtv (not just frontend) will run on a via epia MII-6000? I'm thinking about putting in a PCI hauppauge PVR-*50 but I'm not sure if a VIA C3 600 MHz will be fast enough and I really like the idea of a fanless system
[04:50:00] DCG: Chutt: i think EL_Whistey is an alice bot, what do you think?
[04:50:00] Chutt: naw, alice is a bit smarter
[04:50:00] EL_Whistey: Perhaps Alice could fork mythtv then.
[04:51:00] DCG: yea, you're right, the logic of alice just isnt there with EL_Whistey
[04:51:00] Chutt: _maybe_ an uberhal
[04:51:00] EL_Whistey: Hey, btw, is the front/backend protocol documented?
[04:51:00] Chutt: nope
[04:51:00] EL_Whistey: The logic of Alice. Another priceless one from DCG.
[04:51:00] DCG: why would it?
[04:51:00] Chutt: not by me, at least
[04:51:00] Chutt: it may be in the mvpmc project, though
[04:51:00] GreyFoxx: I think someone who worked on the mvp / mythtv stuff did some documenting of it
[04:51:00] GreyFoxx: But I havenb't got the URL handy
[04:51:00] Chutt: since one of those guys did a c lib version of it
[04:52:00] EL_Whistey: It's probably a good idea to read the source code for the protocol. We don't believe in docco.
[04:52:00] rtsai: my god you guys have been at this for 4 hours !?!
[04:52:00] Chutt: yeah
[04:52:00] EL_Whistey: at what?
[04:52:00] Agrajag-: rtsai: heheh
[04:52:00] Chutt: rtsai, i'm fixing a lame bug for work
[04:52:00] Chutt: this is more amusing
[04:53:00] tetra: *sigh*
[04:53:00] Chutt: though i'm down to it being a buffering issue
[04:53:00] Chutt: so i'm almost done =)
[04:53:00] EL_Whistey: I think it'd be worth writing a tcl implementation of the client-side protocol.
[04:54:00] EL_Whistey: I might do that.
[04:54:00] rtsai: i clearly have nothing to contribute here tonight
[04:55:00] ** xris can't read "tcl" without thinking about "Think! Pascal Libraries" **
[04:55:00] EL_Whistey: I'd expect, though, that the protocol changes pretty arbitrarily from version to version.
[04:55:00] xris: EL_Whistey: not ALL that much, or I'd never be able to keep mythweb up to date
[04:55:00] Chutt: minor changes
[04:56:00] EL_Whistey: xris, what do you use? C or C++ to interface with the backend?
[04:56:00] Chutt: php, of course
[04:56:00] EL_Whistey: Ouch.
[04:56:00] xris: EL_Whistey: it's just a big array.. not exactly difficult
[04:56:00] Chutt: the protocol's dead simple =)
[04:57:00] EL_Whistey: Is it? Interesting idea.
[04:57:00] xris: I'd be interesting in updates/changes for some stuff, though... like a standard way to pass configuration stuff around, so I could put recording profile config into mythweb without knowing a thing about what goes into a recording profile....
[04:57:00] Chutt: xris, yeah
[04:57:00] xris: but I'm patient, and WAY overworked.
[04:57:00] EL_Whistey: That would imply some kind of programming by contract interface spec though :)
[04:57:00] rw`: xris, that's interesting.
[04:57:00] xris: would rather get my "favorites" stuff put in first. heh.
[04:58:00] Chutt: xris, ask bruce+david on the developers list
[04:58:00] xris: Chutt: re favorites, or the protocol stuff?
[04:58:00] Chutt: if they care about the favorites
[04:58:00] EL_Whistey: submit an rfe ticket!!!
[04:58:00] Chutt: he already did
[04:58:00] xris: Chutt: willdo
[04:58:00] EL_Whistey: Oh.
[04:58:00] xris: tickets are easily overlooked/ignored
[04:58:00] Chutt: but since he's actually going to write code, he gets leeway :p
[04:58:00] ** xris knows that all too well from his own mythtv to-do ticket list **
[04:59:00] Chutt: xris, i personally don't care about channel favorites, since i don't use em
[04:59:00] Chutt: cept on my new remote =)
[04:59:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: daryl called, he wants his corprate reality displacment machine back.
[04:59:00] xris: Chutt: my thought is just to reduce the load on the main mythweb listings page... but to keep low-used channels around in case I might someday want to watch them
[04:59:00] Chutt: xris, you've got a lot of mythweb tickets open :p
[04:59:00] xris: no surprise.
[04:59:00] xris: I'm a slacker.
[04:59:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, do you ever talk in anything but cliches?
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[05:00:00] xris: been working on my wiki lately.. and enjoying the nice weather.
[05:00:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: do you ever talk?
[05:00:00] EL_Whistey: xris, you're writing a wiki?
[05:00:00] xris: EL_Whistey: sort of.
[05:00:00] EL_Whistey: xris, cool. Oh, PHP again?
[05:00:00] xris: http://cooktools.forevermore.net/test
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[05:00:00] xris: always php. it's easy.
[05:01:00] DCG: php its good for the web, tcl is bad for the web.
[05:01:00] xris: I always briefly consider perl, but probably won't use perl for web stuff again until perl6 is out.
[05:01:00] EL_Whistey: tcl's great for the web.
[05:02:00] Chutt: xris, even with their new "let's use characters not available on a US keyboard" stuff?
[05:02:00] EL_Whistey: tclhttpd, e.g. is excellent.
[05:02:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you can use tcl, but i dont know anyone who would want to.
[05:02:00] xris: Chutt: didn't hear about that one...
[05:02:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, what you don't know ...
[05:02:00] DCG: EL_Whistey: you can take your smoke and blow it up your own butt.
[05:02:00] EL_Whistey: Presumably PERL has run out of special characters, and are now using unicode.
[05:03:00] EL_Whistey: DCG, ... would fill a library
[05:03:00] Chutt: xris, someone mentioned that they're using »
[05:04:00] EL_Whistey: next version of PERL is going to use katakana.
[05:04:00] xris: Chutt: can't read that, my IM client is set to latin1
[05:04:00] Chutt: ah
[05:04:00] Chutt: the >> in one character
[05:04:00] rw`: well, that's enough for me, thanks for the documentary and popcorns. Good night...
[05:04:00] xris: Chutt: repaste that (trying something)
[05:04:00] xris: »
[05:04:00] EL_Whistey: xris, what're you using to parse the xml?
[05:04:00] Chutt: you got it
[05:04:00] xris: EL_Whistey: what xml?
[05:04:00] Chutt: you pasted it
[05:04:00] xris: Chutt: yeah. compose, >, >
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[05:04:00] Chutt: right
[05:05:00] xris: that sucks, though...
[05:05:00] EL_Whistey: <recipe> etc
[05:05:00] xris: EL_Whistey: that's generated, not parsed.
[05:05:00] EL_Whistey: Ah. And you've snuck some CSS there to make it render in the textarea?
[05:05:00] xris: no
[05:05:00] EL_Whistey: no, that's not possible.
[05:06:00] xris: the textarea is the source
[05:06:00] EL_Whistey: You're parsing that? Jebus.
[05:07:00] ** xris is a former regex god... now I only have "guru" status **
[05:07:00] xris: (out of practice)
[05:07:00] EL_Whistey: there's a good shallow xml parser in regexp, btw.
[05:07:00] Tommck: I know this is a bit off-topic, but I've been thinking about upgrading my switch from 10/100 Linksys to a 10/100/1000 switch and maybe something a bit more robust, if it's worth it.
[05:07:00] xris: php has xml parser stuff built in...
[05:07:00] Tommck: Anyone have any suggestions?
[05:07:00] xris: were I to use it.
[05:07:00] EL_Whistey: that's one virtue of PHP, lots of builtins.
[05:07:00] xris: EL_Whistey: probably its main virtue.
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[05:08:00] ** EL_Whistey hard-pressed to think of a second virtue. **
[05:08:00] xris: among vices: lousy object support (better than perl, though), and HORRIBLE scoping problems.
[05:08:00] EL_Whistey: It's not PERL.
[05:08:00] xris: it's also REALLY easy to use.
[05:08:00] EL_Whistey: xris, really, tclhttpd is excellent for generated content.
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[05:08:00] xris: never used tcl
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[05:08:00] Tommck: it tickles
[05:09:00] xris: and all of my work (other than being a manager these days) is php, perl or bash
[05:09:00] xris: oh, and html, css and javascript
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[05:09:00] DCG: xris: download a linux kernel 2.2.x and make xconfig.
[05:09:00] xris: but kormoc stole my new AJAX book for himself.
[05:09:00] Tommck: 2.2? what year is this? :)
[05:09:00] EL_Whistey: BTW, they're trialing a patch to mozilla to allow arbitrary scripting languages to replace javascript.
[05:09:00] xris: DCG: messed with it a bit in perl AGES ago...
[05:10:00] xris: EL_Whistey: javascript really isn't that bad. the problem is IE.
[05:10:00] DCG: Tommck: just refering to running something that uses tcl...
[05:10:00] EL_Whistey: <script type='text/whatever'> ... </script>
[05:10:00] Tommck: DCG – ahh
[05:10:00] EL_Whistey: It's not too bad, yeah, but it's also not too good.
[05:10:00] Agrajag-: what, so every browser has to implement all the dfiferent text/whatever scripting?
[05:10:00] EL_Whistey: and the dev environment *deeply* sucks
[05:10:00] EL_Whistey: Agrajag, it's purely mozilla.
[05:11:00] xris: dev environment? what dev environment? you can use whatever you want.
[05:11:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah, what dev environment.
[05:11:00] EL_Whistey: I've got an sql in js, btw.
[05:12:00] EL_Whistey: it's quite cool. Some mad catalan wrote it.
[05:12:00] xris: I'll stick with basic stuff.. adding functionality without affecting existing features.
[05:13:00] EL_Whistey: Aaaaanyway ... pull apart mythweb to discover protocol, such as it is.
[05:13:00] EL_Whistey: that's a plan.
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[05:14:00] Agrajag-: xris: talking about ajax, here's a shameless plug for something im toying with http://whatsbeef.net/philip/licqweb/
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[05:15:00] xris: Agrajag-: that's scary
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[05:16:00] Agrajag-: i think it's pretty cool :P
[05:16:00] xris: quite
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[05:20:00] EL_Whistey: xris, where's get_backend_rows defined? Is that PHP for querying the db directly?
[05:21:00] Chutt: sweet, my bug's fixed
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[05:26:00] Beirdo: bedtime...
[05:26:00] Beirdo: night
[05:28:00] EL_Whistey: I will call this interface mythtcl, btw.
[05:29:00] EL_Whistey: becauth it will have mythtcl magical powerth
[05:30:00] Agrajag-: what's it going to do exactly?
[05:30:00] EL_Whistey: Just interface to the backend.
[05:30:00] Agrajag-: so as to schedule recordings and such?
[05:30:00] EL_Whistey: Who knows. To do whatever backend does.
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[05:35:00] EL_Whistey: Oooh, payload.setNum() ... how very NASA
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[05:36:00] EL_Whistey: There's something I'm misunderstanding, or is the field delimiter really "[]:[]" ? Surely not.
[05:36:00] Chutt: surely it is
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[05:37:00] EL_Whistey: Chutt, any particular reason for that?
[05:38:00] Chutt: no, not really
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[05:38:00] Chutt: why, is it a problem?
[05:39:00] EL_Whistey: It's not a problem as such, but ... 5B for a delimiter?
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[05:39:00] Chutt: <shrug>
[05:41:00] xris: EL_Whistey: all the less likely to send it accidentally
[05:41:00] EL_Whistey: xris, like, if you were on crack or something?
[05:41:00] xris: heh
[05:41:00] xris: like Chutt said.. why not?
[05:42:00] Chutt: apparently it's bad to waste a few bytes when you're going to be transferring gb of videos
[05:43:00] LedHed: :)
[05:43:00] EL_Whistey: I dunno, I'm just more used to having some reason for doing things. My bad.
[05:43:00] Chutt: it won't show up in program data, and i didn't feel like writing something to escape the delimiter and un-escape it at the time
[05:43:00] EL_Whistey: And, hey, for protective redundancy, you could have alternating messages going like >:< then <:> and play space invaders with the protocol dump.
[05:44:00] EL_Whistey: errr.
[05:44:00] LedHed: how would I go about figuring out how many streams I can run at the same time before flooding my network?
[05:44:00] xris: Chutt: I use null characters for that.
[05:44:00] Chutt: xris, used to get nulls from xmltv
[05:44:00] xris: damn, that sucks
[05:44:00] xris: LedHed: um, "bits per second"
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[06:10:00] EL_Whistey: Am I getting this right? The messages are sent \n terminated, too?
[06:11:00] Chutt: no
[06:12:00] EL_Whistey: Ok, thanks. that would be too weird in a pascal style string.
[06:13:00] Chutt: where did you see the \n?
[06:13:00] EL_Whistey: No, I didn't. I am flipping between xris' backend php and the utils.c. php used fputs(), and I thought it might be \n terminating
[06:13:00] ** EL_Whistey working with incomplete information **
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[06:27:00] The_Ball: where is a channels frequency defined, my setup seems to just tune to "junk"
[06:28:00] tetra: anyone know if mythtv (not just frontend) will run on a via epia MII-6000? I'm thinking about putting in a PCI hauppauge PVR-*50 but I'm not sure if a VIA C3 600 MHz will be fast enough and I really like the idea of a fanless system
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[06:31:00] stevenm: Hi
[06:31:00] stevenm: How the heck do you setup TV LISTINGS? Like, mythfilldatabase and all?
[06:32:00] stevenm: Reading the doc here, seems it says just RUN IT. I run it, it errors out with Authorization Required
[06:32:00] stevenm: where to register? etc
[06:34:00] Chutt: all that info's in the docs
[06:35:00] fatmatt: okay, now I'm gettign sound from my bt878 card, but its running ahead, ie not buffered with the video
[06:36:00] Chutt: mixer isn't setup
[06:36:00] fatmatt: so I mute the line in input?
[06:36:00] Agrajag-: and set it as capture
[06:36:00] fatmatt: ooh, how do you set it as capture?
[06:37:00] Agrajag-: in alsamixer.. press space
[06:37:00] Agrajag-: hit f4 i think it is (depending on version)
[06:37:00] Agrajag-: or f5
[06:37:00] SlicerDicer-: mchou, you around?
[06:39:00] fatmatt: Agrajag-: that worked, oh, I've got the same audio twice, one slightly delayed..
[06:40:00] Chutt: then it's not muted
[06:41:00] EL_Whistey: The fact that a client doesn't use []:[] delimiting had me going for a bit.
[06:41:00] Chutt: what doesn't use it?
[06:42:00] EL_Whistey: The client sending to the server doesn't use the wonky delimiter
[06:42:00] Chutt: sure it does
[06:42:00] EL_Whistey: Yeah? Odd. I'm sending without and it's working fine.
[06:43:00] Chutt: does anything need delimited?
[06:43:00] EL_Whistey: ANN, protocol declaration, etc
[06:43:00] Chutt: that's a single command
[06:43:00] Chutt: the delimiter's only used for when there's multiple fields of information
[06:44:00] EL_Whistey: So you use the ... hmm. ANN Playback localhost 1 elicits an OK
[06:46:00] Chutt: main time the big field separator comes into play is transferring the program structure
[06:46:00] fatmatt: excellent, all working again
[06:46:00] Chutt: most commands don't need it
[06:46:00] fatmatt: just in time, I'm off on a trip tomorrow and I would have been in deep s* with the wife if both tuners weren't working again
[06:48:00] fatmatt: I should make an image of the drive in case I fuck up again
[06:49:00] ip_goat_rodeo: s/in case/for when/
[06:49:00] ip_goat_rodeo: always assume the worst
[06:49:00] fatmatt: yup
[06:50:00] adante: it's a bit scary sometimes how often "the wife" gets mentioned with regards to myth
[06:50:00] fatmatt: whats a good card for tv out? svideo or rca,
[06:50:00] fatmatt: yeah, I've noticed that
[06:50:00] fatmatt: the shit I got last night when some crap reality tv show was recording without sound...
[06:51:00] adante: it's like some sort of mystical deity that must be appeased with offerings of mythtv recordings
[06:51:00] fatmatt: swmbo
[06:51:00] ip_goat_rodeo: well, my first post to the local user group about building a myth box had a line in my design spec saying "Shuttle SFF Case (so the wife will let it in the living room)"
[06:52:00] fatmatt: mines a standard beige box next to the tv, she lets it there because its so handy, that and I told her what a nice quiet case would cost
[06:53:00] ip_goat_rodeo: I'm going to actually trash my proof-of-concept box next week and start putting together the real machine.
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[06:54:00] ip_goat_rodeo: managed to work out all the uniquely japanese issues pretty quickly with it though
[06:54:00] fatmatt: I'm thinking I'll get another couple of dtv cards, get a dedicated frontend and just put the backend in a cupboard
[06:55:00] ip_goat_rodeo: I have no option for digital except very expensive experimentation buying outboard tuners with firewire interfaces that have big disclaimers "no guarantees of compatability with any hardware but our own".
[06:56:00] ip_goat_rodeo: no one makes a usable ISDB-T card yet
[06:57:00] adante: i've got 3 tuners atm, been tossing up the idea of going for a 4th but not really sure if the old faithful hdd can handle it
[06:57:00] ip_goat_rodeo: add more disk spindles?
[06:58:00] adante: already got 3 disks and a cdrom, would need another controller
[06:59:00] adante: (2 of those disks are used for non-myth shennanigans)
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[06:59:00] thechris: anyone know what msp3400 is ?
[07:02:00] Krazylegz: Sound for PVR-xxx, I think.
[07:02:00] ip_goat_rodeo: the fm tuner chip isn't it?
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[07:02:00] thechris: hmm. i still get static.
[07:02:00] thechris: no luck for me
[07:03:00] swim: well that's nice, looks like mythdora installs directly to harddrive without asking any questions at all
[07:03:00] ** swim sarcasm of course **
[07:05:00] ip_goat_rodeo: which ivtv version you using?
[07:06:00] thechris: 0.37h
[07:12:00] thechris: i guess all i can do is leave a bad review for the pvr500
[07:12:00] thechris: after all, it didn't work in windows either...
[07:17:00] EL_Whistey: Well, cool. Now I have a tcl client in 170 lines. And a ham sandwich and a nice espresso.
[07:18:00] EL_Whistey: I call it mythtcl, because it has mystical powers.
[07:18:00] xris: thechris: sounds like a bad card, then
[07:19:00] thechris: xris: i hope not. i've already had to RMA the card once
[07:19:00] EL_Whistey: Except, I don't know how to specify NULL in QUERY_SETTING
[07:19:00] thechris: last time there were parts ripped off the back...
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[07:20:00] xris: thechris: if it doesn't work in windows, there's probably something wrong with it.
[07:20:00] thechris: xris: well, i can't install the drivers in windows
[07:20:00] thechris: xris: it asks for the winXP-pro cd repeatedly
[07:20:00] thechris: even if i insert the XP pro cd...
[07:20:00] xris: weird
[07:21:00] thechris: i know
[07:21:00] thechris: i have bad luck with computers
[07:21:00] thechris: i just wish someone who has a PVR500 would tell me how to get this thing to work
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[07:31:00] xris: thechris: join the ivtv mailing list
[07:31:00] xris: or hang out on #ivtv-dev
[07:32:00] swim: hmm mythdora wont boot after install, giving me an error at grub stage 1.5 of error 15... anyone have any ideas for me?
[07:36:00] EL_Whistey: 1.5 is the thing that loads the grub loader proper.
[07:36:00] EL_Whistey: I suspect you need to run grub again, after you boot :)
[07:36:00] EL_Whistey: boot from some recovery medium
[07:36:00] EL_Whistey: use the root=/dev/whatever command to the kernel.
[07:37:00] swim: hmm i tried to do that but got a kernel panic
[07:38:00] EL_Whistey: it would rather depend upon what the panic was, as to what you need to do.
[07:38:00] EL_Whistey: It sounds a bit like yer root fs is abgefuckt.
[07:38:00] EL_Whistey: you could try root=/dev/whatever init=/bin/sh
[07:39:00] swim: hrmm ok
[07:42:00] thechris: hmm. i used an alternative modules.conf for IVTV that i found online
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[07:42:00] thechris: i now have BW
[07:42:00] thechris: and sorta audio
[07:42:00] thechris: audio is staticy, like a really bad AGC was used
[07:43:00] thechris: tvtime still won't work
[07:43:00] thechris: mythtv does a bit better
[07:51:00] awb4422: anyone know how to fix the apache and 2 gig file limit problems?
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[07:53:00] thechris: what should i set my channel change command to?
[07:54:00] thechris: all my channels are off
[07:55:00] thechris: channel 68 is 69
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[07:55:00] thechris: channel 2 just doesn't work
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[08:50:00] thechris: how do i set up my frequencies in mythTV. the ones in uscable and uscable hrc don't work
[08:51:00] Chutt: if you're in the us and those don't work, you very likely have the wrong tuner being used.
[08:51:00] Chutt: or have ivtv and/or myth set up for pal and not ntsc.
[08:52:00] thechris: hmm. would PAL settings on NTSC still kinda work?
[08:53:00] thechris: my channels are 1 off, BW, and the sound has pops in it
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[08:54:00] thechris: options ivtv ivtv_std=1 tuner=56,56 tda9887=0,0 ivtv_debug=1
[08:54:00] thechris: is that ok?
[08:54:00] Chutt: i dunno
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[08:56:00] Chutt: well, tuner type 56 is a pal tuner
[08:56:00] thechris: where did you find that?!
[08:56:00] Chutt: so, why'd you use that specifically?
[08:56:00] Chutt: from the list of tuners in tuner.h
[08:56:00] thechris: tuner.h from ivtv?
[08:56:00] Chutt: ie., where 'modinfo ivtv' tells you to look
[08:56:00] Chutt: yes
[08:57:00] Chutt: #define TUNER_PHILIPS_FQ1216AME_MK4 56 /* Hauppauge PVR-150 PAL */
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[08:57:00] Chutt: dunno why you'd be trying module arguments blindly...
[08:58:00] thechris: it was on a forum
[08:58:00] thechris: and it sorta made things better
[08:58:00] thechris: i get a picture
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[09:12:00] thechris: ah. ok. so now it works decently
[09:12:00] thechris: which brings up the next Q
[09:12:00] thechris: ALSA + mythTV
[09:13:00] ip_goat_rodeo: Oh wow, the kurotoshikou card is in mainstream ivtv now?
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[09:21:00] k-man: hey
[09:22:00] k-man: has anyone thought of building an rss video feed player/downloader into mythtv?
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[09:58:00] Shanee: hi!
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[10:12:00] Shanee: is somebody using mythtv and dbox2 with success?
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[10:15:00] fangji: in China, can I use mythtv watch TV program?
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[10:20:00] fatmatt: k-man: theres torrentocracy, just read about it, never used it thoug, no real idea exactly what it does
[10:23:00] k-man: fatmatt, hmm... interesting
[10:23:00] k-man: i was more after something for watching rss feeds
[10:23:00] k-man: but thats certainly interesting
[10:26:00] k-man: i mean for downloading rss feeds of video streams, not just torrents
[10:26:00] k-man: but i guess both would be good
[10:26:00] fatmatt: mythnews used rss I think...
[10:26:00] fatmatt: but not video
[10:29:00] fatmatt: I think easily rss ing video streams would border on copyright infringement and I don't think the developers want to go in that dirction with myth
[10:34:00] cochi: rss *pling* *awake*
[10:35:00] cochi: but ... for what purpose
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[10:41:00] k-man: fatmatt, what are you talking about?
[10:41:00] k-man: there are a number of shows showing up now that are specificaly set up for rss distribution
[10:41:00] k-man: its a valid form of media distribution
[10:42:00] k-man: cochi, i think there should be a way of downloading and "reacording" rss video streams in mythtv
[10:42:00] k-man: like say rocketbomb
[10:42:00] cochi: mh. then i could just agree to fatmatt...
[10:42:00] k-man: i'd like it to just show up in my recorded shows just like anything else
[10:43:00] cochi: announcing completed recordings via rss internal'd be nice
[10:43:00] cochi: but linking others' recordings. bad idea
[10:43:00] k-man: no
[10:43:00] k-man: your missing my point
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[10:43:00] k-man: i want to download rss treams from people like rockedbomb.com
[10:43:00] k-man: thats all
[10:43:00] k-man: i don't want to announce it at all
[10:43:00] k-man: rocketbomb.com
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[10:44:00] cochi: but it'd result in you getting the recording, wouldn't it
[10:44:00] k-man: yeah, whats wrong with that?
[10:44:00] k-man: they put it up for download
[10:44:00] k-man: are you familiar with rocketbomb?
[10:44:00] k-man: it is licenced cc iirc
[10:45:00] cochi: mh no i'm not. but you'd have to restrict it to "free" shows.
[10:45:00] k-man: yeah
[10:45:00] k-man: of course
[10:45:00] k-man: but thats not the job of mythtv
[10:45:00] k-man: imho
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[10:45:00] cochi: well but if they did some plugin for that, they'd be accused of promoting piracy
[10:46:00] cochi: and that's the reason for why it'd probably never happen
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[10:50:00] k-man: well...
[10:50:00] k-man: i think it will happen
[10:50:00] k-man: its inevitable
[10:50:00] k-man: as more and more cc licensed shows turn up, people are going to want to watch those shows in their tv
[10:51:00] k-man: and eventually someone will get motivated enough to write something
[10:51:00] cochi: and get sued for that. sure, but not me ;)
[10:52:00] cochi: let's first wait for apple's iTunes to go video. :)
[10:53:00] k-man: i don't think its such a big issue.. i mean... are there really so many illegall rss feeds?
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[10:53:00] k-man: look at this..
[10:53:00] k-man: http://www.filefarmer.com/techshows/
[10:53:00] k-man: there are lots of shows up for downloading
[10:55:00] k-man: oh
[10:55:00] k-man: i meant rocketboom before, not rocketbomb
[10:55:00] k-man: sorry
[10:58:00] cochi: ah you mean vlogs
[10:58:00] cochi: (mostly)
[11:02:00] k-man: yeah
[11:02:00] k-man: vlogs
[11:02:00] k-man: blogs
[11:02:00] k-man: etc
[11:02:00] k-man: anyway
[11:02:00] k-man: i have to go
[11:02:00] k-man: ttyl
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[12:42:00] Dibblah: Anyone getting anything from the mailing lists?
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[15:06:00] orlax: hi everyone
[15:08:00] orlax: what does this mean: Incompatible protocol version (mythweb=15, backend=17), in mythweb
[15:09:00] Dibblah: Hi – It's quite common to get the wrong channel – Don't worry about it ;)
[15:09:00] orlax: mythbackend version: 0.18.20050523–1, mythweb 0.18.1
[15:09:00] Dibblah: It means you need to update your version of Mythweb.
[15:09:00] orlax: but there is no update available
[15:09:00] Dibblah: You've installed the new version somewhere different to the old version, probably.
[15:10:00] orlax: same problem if i want to mythlivetv:// in windows
[15:10:00] GreyFoxx: Or the person who made your packages didn't bother packaging a new mythweb
[15:10:00] orlax: i've only one version installed
[15:11:00] orlax: kay, that means i've to uninstall the package and recompile the one from the mythtv.com site
[15:11:00] GreyFoxx: They must be of different versions, regardless of what your package system is telling you, or you would not be seeing that problem
[15:12:00] orlax: is there a possibility to save all my configurations?
[15:12:00] GreyFoxx: It's all stored in the mysql database, so as long as the database is still there then your config should be fine
[15:13:00] GreyFoxx: but doing a mysqldump would be a good thing as a backup just in case
[15:13:00] orlax: thx4info
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[15:27:00] EL_Whistey: orlax, chances are you tried installing from source, put stuff into /usr/local/bin and mythfront is loading from there.
[15:27:00] EL_Whistey: ie: PATH issue
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[15:45:00] orlax: what does this mean: mythbackend: error while loading shared libraries: libmythtv-0.18.1.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory, the libmythtv-0.18.1.so.0 is there /usr/local/lib/
[15:45:00] laga: orlax: make sure that /usr/local/lib is in your /etc/ld.so.conf and run ldconfig.
[15:45:00] orlax: kk
[15:46:00] Dibblah: Also, remove the old libs from /usr/lib.
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[16:15:00] Deepdelver[away: hello
[16:15:00] Deepdelver[away: can someone help me with my knoppmyth installation
[16:16:00] Deepdelver[away: cant get xmpltv working :"(
[16:16:00] Deepdelver[away: xmltv
[16:17:00] Beirdo: damn Florida
[16:17:00] Beirdo: stop being a Hurricane magnet!
[16:18:00] Deepdelver[away: do somebody know how i can get xmltv working please :x
[16:18:00] laga: Deepdelver[away: start by giving us some information, like the error message
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[16:21:00] Deepdelver[away: ok
[16:21:00] Flik (n=Flik@d205-250-145-88.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:21:00] Deepdelver[away: ;)
[16:21:00] Deepdelver[away: i need to do mythfilldatabase --manual
[16:21:00] Deepdelver[away: zo i push crtl +alt + F! so i get console log in typ that but there i get more errors then i can count
[16:22:00] Deepdelver[away: is this ok laga?
[16:22:00] laga: no. errors are never ok.
[16:23:00] Deepdelver[away: hehe :P
[16:24:00] Deepdelver[away: but how do i fix this cause i cant install any channels without a channel list in the database
[16:25:00] laga: go to www.pastebin.ca and post your errors there.
[16:26:00] Deepdelver[away: yes i will do but i want to fix it fast
[16:26:00] Beirdo: it's good to want things
[16:26:00] GreyFoxx: hahahaha
[16:27:00] GreyFoxx: Made me snort my water out my nose hehe
[16:27:00] dfgh: What should I do if I can use both; use mythtv native lirc support, or run irxevent?
[16:27:00] Beirdo: GreyFoxx: use your mystical powers and convince Tropical Storm Katrina to fuck off and not hit Florida, K?
[16:27:00] GreyFoxx: Sorry, my powers are more focus on keeping it away from here when it's done with Florida
[16:28:00] Beirdo: hehe
[16:28:00] Beirdo: it won't make it there, it's going west
[16:28:00] o_cee (n=o_cee@c83-249-52-214.bredband.comhem.se) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:28:00] ChanServ sets mode +v o_cee
[16:28:00] batdog is now known as batdog|gone
[16:28:00] laga: dfgh: native lirc
[16:28:00] Beirdo: pretty much straight for the airport I'm supposed to fly through a day later
[16:28:00] GreyFoxx: Beirdo: Exactly, It's working
[16:29:00] Beirdo: and my are the flights ever empty now :)
[16:29:00] GreyFoxx: heh cheap seats!
[16:30:00] GreyFoxx: hahahah I think I just disturbed my coworkers
[16:30:00] Beirdo: good :)
[16:30:00] Beirdo: they need disturbing once in a while
[16:30:00] GreyFoxx: Some new backstreet boys song came on(I have headphones on) and apparently I started singing along with it outload. hahahahaha
[16:30:00] ** Beirdo is wearing his iron ring for the first time in months **
[16:30:00] Beirdo: hahaha. wow
[16:30:00] dfgh: laga: how can I know if that's enabled? (I installed with apt)
[16:33:00] laga: dfgh: umm. try an ldd `which mythfrontend` | grep lirc
[16:33:00] The_Ball: is the freqid the frequency in mhz?
[16:34:00] GreyFoxx: Man, I wish I was getting a percentage of all the cable modem subscriber accounts I find that people aren't being billed for
[16:34:00] The_Ball: my setup seems to tune to "junk"
[16:34:00] Deepdelver[away (n=Anonymou@vandenbosch.speedxs.nl) Quit (" HennesScript <NW> 0.61b")
[16:34:00] dfgh: lada: liblirc_client.so.0 => /usr/lib/liblirc_client.so.0 (0x0039b000)
[16:34:00] ** laga wonders if deepdelver is crying again **
[16:35:00] laga: dfgh: looks good
[16:35:00] The_Ball: i woudn't mind signing up with what ever isp that is GreyFoxx
[16:35:00] GreyFoxx: The_Ball: Every isp :) I've run a check on serveral over the years. I setup one place that had 5500 cable modems online, but only 5000 paying customers :)
[16:36:00] GreyFoxx: Running one now on a place with 60k modems and so far I've found a 100 that are not in the billing system
[16:36:00] dfgh: laga: thank you
[16:36:00] The_Ball: wow, that's alot of money
[16:36:00] GreyFoxx: Yeah
[16:36:00] GreyFoxx: Serisouly, the industry average for non billed accounts is rediculous
[16:37:00] GreyFoxx: people not following through with disconnects or the proper procedures
[16:37:00] k-man_ (n=jason@unaffiliated/k-man) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:37:00] GreyFoxx: or just being incsecure and letting anymodem on regardless of whether they are a customer :)
[16:37:00] k-man_: would it be tricky switching from the .debs of myth to my own compiled version?
[16:37:00] The_Ball: GreyFoxx, do you know where the frequency is entered in myth tv, the value i store as freqid doesnt do much for me
[16:37:00] GreyFoxx: The_Ball: I've never looked
[16:38:00] GreyFoxx: There is a arrary of them in the code, and I think I've seen entries in the DB, but I've never actually looked to touch them
[16:39:00] The_Ball: aha, so when i have the mhz values i will have to find them in that array, seems a bit awkvard
[16:40:00] GreyFoxx: The_Ball: Honestly I can't tell you what you need to do, I'm just saying where I've seen references to it :)
[16:40:00] The_Ball: thanks i can at least look in that direction
[16:40:00] GreyFoxx: I'd try searching the mailling list as I'm sure people have done what you are looking to do
[16:41:00] ** Tommck wonders if there are networking weenies in here that want to help me decide on something for my house **
[16:41:00] StillBob: go fiber
[16:42:00] Tommck: StillBob – I already have 5000 ft of cat-5e in the house :)
[16:42:00] StillBob: go fiber
[16:42:00] Tommck: I will upgrade to fiber if it becomes necessary (I have conduit cables in the walls too)
[16:42:00] The_Ball: tomimo, you can do gigabit on cat5 so ur sweet
[16:43:00] Tommck: The_Ball – right.. .but I want to buy a new switch (I'm using a Linksys 10/100 now)
[16:43:00] Tommck: and want to know what to buy
[16:43:00] Tommck: I don't mind spending a little more to buy something better if there's a reason to
[16:43:00] StillBob: Tommck: I have a Netgrear Gigabit here, very happy with it
[16:44:00] Tommck: will someone explain to me what a layer 2 switch is?
[16:44:00] ** Tommck apologizes in advance to Beirdo for being off-topic **
[16:44:00] Beirdo: gooooogle
[16:44:00] Tommck: Beirdo – yeah yeah yeah
[16:44:00] Tommck: :)
[16:44:00] ** Tommck feels lazy today **
[16:47:00] Deepdelver[away (n=Anonymou@vandenbosch.speedxs.nl) has joined #mythtv-users
[16:47:00] Deepdelver[away: hello
[16:47:00] Deepdelver[away: can someone tell me how to setup my xmltv for tv_grab_nl
[16:47:00] Tommck: so... I guess everyone's pointing me to google at this point?
[16:48:00] StillBob (n=bob-lapt@astound-66-216-233-59.mn.astound.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[16:48:00] ** Tommck thinks Deepdelver is an IRC Ventriloquist... he's "away"... but still typing.... weird **
[16:48:00] Deepdelver[away: lol
[16:49:00] The_Ball: Tommck, it means it looks at the packet's second layer, which means it can route smarter
[16:49:00] Deepdelver[away is now known as Deepdelver
[16:49:00] Deepdelver: is this better
[16:49:00] Tommck: The_Ball – and why would one need that?
[16:49:00] Tommck: Deepdelver – much... :)
[16:49:00] Deepdelver: ok
[16:49:00] Deepdelver: :P
[16:49:00] The_Ball: less congestion for one
[16:49:00] GreyFoxx: A Layer 2 switch is your standard ordinary switch. It forwards traffic based on the MAC address it's destined for
[16:49:00] GreyFoxx: It doesn't consider to look at IP address, there are no routing tables
[16:50:00] Tommck: GreyFoxx – but your typical Linksys and Netgear are not Layer 2?
[16:50:00] Deepdelver: but i have a fucking problem i want to get the xmltv in knoppmyth but it doesnt work
[16:50:00] GreyFoxx: Unless you count vlans, but that's anopther story
[16:50:00] GreyFoxx: Tommck: Of course they are layer 2
[16:50:00] Tommck: GreyFoxx – feel free to describe that too :)
[16:50:00] Tommck: GreyFoxx – oh.. ok.
[16:50:00] Tommck: I see some switches support VLAN too and that means nothing to me
[16:50:00] StillBob (n=bob-lapt@astound-66-216-233-59.mn.astound.net) has joined #MythTV-Users
[16:51:00] Deepdelver: i have googled like till my fingers are broken but i cant find anything what fix my problem
[16:51:00] GreyFoxx: Tommck: That's irrelevant to 99% of the population who want switches :)
[16:51:00] Tommck: ah... and "managed" versus not?
[16:51:00] Deepdelver: anybody?
[16:51:00] ** Tommck doesn't use xmltv or Knoppmyth **
[16:51:00] GreyFoxx: managed means literally that, you have some configurability and or the ability to poll it via snmp for statistics and other info
[16:51:00] Deepdelver: :'( Deepdelver is going to cry :'(
[16:52:00] laga: bwahahaha
[16:52:00] Tommck: ok.. so managed isn't such a big deal either.
[16:52:00] GreyFoxx: Not for most home users
[16:52:00] Tommck: so, why do some switches cost like $400 versus $200 for the "same" thing?
[16:52:00] Deepdelver: can someone plese help me one step further
[16:52:00] laga: Deepdelver: i told you what to do. but you didn't follow my instructions. how the fsck are we supposed to help you if you're being plain stupid?
[16:52:00] GreyFoxx: Cause a Marketing Droid thinks they can get away with it :)
[16:52:00] Deepdelver: laga what do you mean
[16:53:00] Tommck: so, GreyFoxx, you see _no_ reason to go with something more expensive rather than a cheap 10/100/1000 for my house?
[16:53:00] GreyFoxx: Tommck: A managed switch is usually much more expensive than a dumb switch
[16:53:00] Deepdelver: I hope to find another dutch person that have the same issue
[16:53:00] Tommck: GreyFoxx – but you only get SNMP and logs?
[16:53:00] laga: Deepdelver: never mind, i'm not going to waste my time on you any longer
[16:53:00] Deepdelver: ok shut the fuck up
[16:53:00] Tommck: children!
[16:53:00] Tommck: don't make me separate you two!
[16:54:00] Deepdelver: sorry father :P
[16:54:00] GreyFoxx: Tommck: Well, depends on the switch. You can do port mirroring, mac filters, vlanning, snmp stats, and a host of otyher things. If those are not important to you I wouldn't spend the money on them
[16:54:00] Tommck: yeah... doesn't seem like I need it
[16:54:00] Tommck: now, some of them specify their buffers... is there something I should look for there?
[16:54:00] GreyFoxx: I can telnet into my switch for example (or serial console) and have fine control over the entire thing. Even down to what speed/duplex each port will accept and so on
[16:55:00] Tommck: cool
[16:55:00] GreyFoxx: The bigger the buffer the better
[16:55:00] Tommck: but unnecessary :)
[16:55:00] Tommck: (for my house)
[16:55:00] Tommck: ok... what would be considered a "good" size?
[16:55:00] Tommck: (for my house)
[16:55:00] GreyFoxx: A small buffer CAN cause packet loss if they can't flush the buffer before new traffic comes in forcing packet retransmission
[16:56:00] Tommck: right.. makes sense
[16:56:00] GreyFoxx: but I've only seen it on cheap little home/nat routers for the most part
[16:56:00] GreyFoxx: I've never seen it on any of the switches I deal with, but I don't know what sort of buffer they have
[16:56:00] Tommck: cool.
[16:56:00] GreyFoxx: some of them just have SIMMs/DIMMs in them
[16:56:00] Tommck: here's one more question...
[16:57:00] Tommck: If I want to have about 50 cat5e connections, should I just buy a few 16-port switches? or try to find something bigger?
[16:57:00] GreyFoxx: 50 gigabit ports?
[16:57:00] Tommck: yeah.. :)
[16:58:00] Tommck: not everything will be connected to something
[16:58:00] Tommck: I just have that many jacks and I'm lazy... don't want to have to rewire my closet every time I move something
[16:58:00] Tommck: or add a PC
[16:58:00] GreyFoxx: hrm, well since it's a home network you wont be saturating that, so you could certainly daisy chain a couple 16's if they are cheaper
[16:59:00] Tommck: I guess I just have to make sure that they can daisy chain... usually I only see one uplink port
[16:59:00] Tommck: unless I'm looking for the wrong thing
[16:59:00] GreyFoxx: Tommck: Crossover cables are all you need
[16:59:00] Tommck: ahh.. good point
[16:59:00] GreyFoxx: The uplink port is just internal "crossed" Or has abutton to do it :)
[16:59:00] Tommck: yep
[16:59:00] laga: crossover cables? i thought the gigabit stuff has auto sensing
[17:00:00] GreyFoxx: laga: Is it? I've never had to deal with linking two together via ethernet, only through fibre modules
[17:00:00] GreyFoxx: If it does, even better :)
[17:00:00] laga: heh. even the newver SOHO fast ethernet switches do it ;)
[17:01:00] Tommck: any brands to stay away from?
[17:01:00] GreyFoxx: Definately handy, though I'll stick to my crossover cables. I find autosensing (including auto negotiation for ethernet traffic) to be flaky at best
[17:03:00] Hydrian (n=Hydrian@65.213.79.252) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:04:00] jonK (i=js2638@xmission.xmission.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:04:00] KillerBunny (n=Killer@port149.ds1-arno.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:04:00] Tommck: Asus makes switches now?
[17:06:00] Tommck: dammit.. all these switches have 2 gigabit ports (looking on Newegg)
[17:06:00] Tommck: annoying
[17:07:00] hadees (n=hadees@dsl001-130-101.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:08:00] ** Beirdo no longer cares if Miami gets pounded. **
[17:08:00] ** Beirdo is now flying via Chicago **
[17:08:00] Tommck: you're going on your vaca?
[17:08:00] Beirdo: on Saturday
[17:08:00] Tommck: sweet
[17:08:00] Beirdo: and a hurricane's due to hit just north of Miami... tomorrow
[17:09:00] Tommck: :)
[17:09:00] Beirdo: I don't want to be risking cancelled flights
[17:09:00] Beirdo: fuck Miami very much
[17:09:00] Tommck: I flew into Miami from Key West _during_ a hurricane
[17:09:00] Beirdo: heh
[17:09:00] Tommck: in a puddle jumper!
[17:09:00] Tommck: scared the crap out of me
[17:09:00] Beirdo: yeah, well American Airlines will likely cancel the flights
[17:09:00] Beirdo: and I wanna get to San Juan on time and in one piece
[17:10:00] Tommck: the captain (mid-flight) says... "we've been flying between two bands of the hurricane up until now"
[17:10:00] Tommck: "it's not going to be any better than this."
[17:10:00] Beirdo: hehe
[17:10:00] Kyler (n=chatzill@12-210-184-195.client.insightBB.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:10:00] Tommck: "we now have to descend to the airport so we have to fly through it, so we might have some turbulence" :)
[17:10:00] Beirdo: "the flight attendants will bring you fresh barf bags in a moment"
[17:11:00] Beirdo: "just as soon as they are done puking"
[17:11:00] Tommck: we landed on the front tire and ONE back tire... and then slammed down on the other tire... it was nice
[17:11:00] Beirdo: hey, you made it, that's all that matters
[17:11:00] Tommck: yeah... next time I'll drive :)
[17:12:00] Kyler: I've been getting programs from LxM on channels I haven't selected. I deleted them from the database and am refreshing. Anything else I should do?
[17:12:00] Beirdo: and get blown off the causeway
[17:12:00] The_Ball: GreyFoxx, ./libs/libmythtv/frequencies.c had the tables and the freqid
[17:12:00] Tommck: :)
[17:12:00] The_Ball: so that worked for me thanks
[17:13:00] Kyler: My LxM update just finished. I didn't get the unselected channels this time. All seems to be o.k.
[17:14:00] Kyler: It sure took me awhile to figure out why "Dogs with Jobs" always had horrible video (but the audio was fine).
[17:14:00] Kyler: It was because it was recording from a cable channel I don't get (well).
[17:16:00] hadeees (n=hadees@cpe-70-113-20-102.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[17:17:00] terevos (n=terevos@gw.meetingmaker.com) Quit ()
[17:18:00] Deepdelver: hello how can i delete or ename my tv_grab_nl i get bareword "tv_grab_nl" now allowed while "strict subs" in use (at eval 1) line 1
[17:18:00] gf: i cant watch live tv for more than 1 second before it freezes
[17:18:00] gf: any ideas?
[17:19:00] terevos (n=terevos@gw.meetingmaker.com) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:19:00] Deepdelver: i wish i was that far :P
[17:19:00] GreyFoxx: gf: Yeah, watch both the frontend and backend output to see what if any error messages they give :)
[17:20:00] gf: remote encoder not responding is one
[17:20:00] orlax: how to disable screensaver in mythfrontend?
[17:20:00] Deepdelver: do someoen know an answer on my question
[17:20:00] Deepdelver: how can i delete or rename my tv_grab_nl i get bareword "tv_grab_nl" now allowed while "strict subs" in use (at eval 1) line 1
[17:20:00] GreyFoxx: gf: Then you need to check why the IVTV drivers are either not loaded or stop responding :)
[17:21:00] GreyFoxx: orlax: I thought that was done automatically (when watching a video)
[17:21:00] primeministerp (n=ppouliot@130.57.22.69) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
[17:21:00] orlax: oh
[17:21:00] orlax: thx anyhow
[17:22:00] Deepdelver: somebody
[17:22:00] gf: greyfoxx: they are loaded
[17:22:00] Deepdelver: help me with rename that shit
[17:22:00] gf: i get a prebuffering pause first, then readstringlist timeout
[17:22:00] gf: then a bunch of bad sockets
[17:23:00] gf: it records fine, i've already tested that
[17:23:00] Deepdelver: you can ignore me :'(
[17:23:00] xris (n=xris@xris.forevermore.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:23:00] ChanServ sets mode +v xris
[17:23:00] ** Tommck notices that gigabit switches are expensive **
[17:24:00] gf: ok mythbackend is failing to bind port 6543
[17:25:00] Deepdelver: how can i delete or rename my tv_grab_nl i get bareword "tv_grab_nl" now allowed while "strict subs" in use (at eval 1) line 1
[17:27:00] ** laga whistles **
[17:27:00] Filip (n=Filip@sterrenbos.demon.nl) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:28:00] Deepdelver: #23 hello
[17:29:00] Deepdelver: how can i delete or rename my tv_grab_nl i get bareword "tv_grab_nl" now allowed while "strict subs" in use (at eval 1) line 1
[17:29:00] ** Tommck hears an echo **
[17:29:00] kramman (n=kramman@longhorn.esu10.k12.ne.us) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:29:00] Deepdelver: cause nobody give an answer
[17:30:00] Tommck: Deepdelver – maybe nobody has an answer
[17:30:00] Deepdelver: maybe they can tell it me
[17:30:00] Tommck: Deepdelver – you expect EVERY person in here to say "I have no idea" ?
[17:30:00] Deepdelver: then i know they have read it but dont have an answer
[17:30:00] xris (n=xris@xris.forevermore.net) Quit ("l8r")
[17:30:00] Deepdelver: no
[17:30:00] Beirdo: maybe you can stop asking the same thing again and again
[17:30:00] Beirdo: we obviously don't know
[17:30:00] Deepdelver: ok
[17:32:00] GreyFoxx: Ummmm I assume "mv" doesn't work for you ?
[17:36:00] Filip: I suppose: "which tv_grab_nl" first, then use that path to "mv tv_grab_nl tv_grab_nl_old"?
[17:37:00] Filip: possibly there's some redirection fun to be had
[17:37:00] Filip: mv `which tv_grab_nl` `which tv_grab_nl`-old
[17:37:00] Filip: would that work?
[17:44:00] primeministerp (n=ppouliot@130.57.22.69) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:54:00] Tommck: ping
[17:55:00] Filip: pong
[17:55:00] ** Tommck thought he lost connection **
[17:55:00] gf: please i need help, i cannot watch live tv, it freezes after 1 second of playback
[17:55:00] Tommck: what is it with people repeating themselves today?
[17:55:00] gf: what is it with people not answering questions :(
[17:56:00] Filip: what freezes? your entire computer, mythfrontend, mythbackend, X?
[17:56:00] gf: mythfrontend
[17:56:00] BleedAway (i=whocares@saus04.usc.es) Quit ("changing servers")
[17:56:00] gf: then it kicks me out of the frozen video to mtyhfrontend
[17:56:00] Filip: have you tried getting a new ffmpeg
[17:56:00] Filip: can you record?
[17:56:00] gf: i can record video fine
[17:56:00] gf: yes
[17:56:00] gf: i can watch recorded video fine
[17:56:00] jonK (i=js2638@xmission.xmission.com) Quit ("[BX] Occifer, I'm not as think as you stoned I am!")
[17:56:00] gf: i cannot watch livetv
[17:57:00] Tommck: gf – any errors?
[17:57:00] gf: yes, remote encoder not responding
[17:57:00] gf: and bad sockets
[17:57:00] BleedAway (i=whocares@saus04.usc.es) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:57:00] Tommck: is the backend running?
[17:57:00] gf: should be, how do i tell
[17:57:00] xris (n=xris@c-24-19-148-45.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[17:57:00] ChanServ sets mode +v xris
[17:57:00] Tommck: ps?
[17:57:00] gf: ps?
[17:58:00] Tommck: ps -ef | grep mythbackend
[17:58:00] Tommck: ?
[17:58:00] Tommck: not a unix person?
[17:58:00] gf: no im not :(
[17:58:00] Tommck: ok
[17:58:00] gf: ok i did that line
[17:58:00] gf: what ami looking for here
[17:58:00] Tommck: did anything show up?
[17:58:00] gf: yes
[17:58:00] Tommck: some line that has "mythbackend" in it that's NOT your "grep mythbackend" process
[17:58:00] Tommck: (ps lists processes)
[17:59:00] xris: gf, type this, and then run Tommck's line again: export GREP_OPTIONS='--color=auto' GREP_COLOR='0;32'
[17:59:00] Tommck: xris – what's that do?
[17:59:00] xris: Tommck: exactly what it looks like.
[17:59:00] Deepdelver: are there any dutch people over here?
[17:59:00] ** xris is dutch (3 generations removed) **
[18:00:00] Deepdelver: xris can you help me
[18:00:00] gf: ok i have 3 mythbackend
[18:00:00] xris: Deepdelver: no.
[18:00:00] Deepdelver: xris why?
[18:00:00] gf: a mythtv user: grep mythbackend
[18:00:00] xris: Deepdelver: "3 generations removed" means my great grandfather was from NL, not me.
[18:00:00] ** Tommck played 'double dutch' once **
[18:00:00] gf: and a root /usr/bin/mythbackend --daemon
[18:00:00] Tommck: 3?
[18:00:00] xris: I'm the fourth.
[18:00:00] Deepdelver: ok
[18:00:00] Deepdelver: lol
[18:00:00] Tommck: gf – 3 mythbakends?
[18:01:00] Deepdelver: is there someone who use xmltv
[18:01:00] gf: well there are 2 lines
[18:01:00] Tommck: ignore the one with "grep" in it
[18:01:00] gf: and the grep one
[18:01:00] gf: ./usr/bin/mythbackend, /var/run/mythbackend.pid
[18:01:00] xris: Tommck: you try out my grep options line? if you didn't, it just tells grep to highlight matches in green.
[18:01:00] gf: ignore the .
[18:01:00] gf: yes i did xris
[18:02:00] gf: i followed jarods guide and mythbackend should be auto loading
[18:02:00] KaZeR (n=kazer@81.80.32.245) Quit (""Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC"")
[18:02:00] Tommck: gf – you running mythweb?
[18:02:00] gf: not yet
[18:02:00] Tommck: ahh..
[18:02:00] ** Tommck tries to think of another way to test the backend **
[18:03:00] gf: how do i kill it
[18:03:00] gf: and then restart it
[18:03:00] gf: so i can see if it gives any error codes
[18:03:00] Tommck: look for the first number on the line output from "ps"...
[18:03:00] xris: gf: service mythbackend stop
[18:03:00] Tommck: then do "kill <number>"
[18:03:00] Tommck: or that :)
[18:03:00] ** NightBird wonders how to fix up the network issue... **
[18:03:00] gf: 2909?
[18:03:00] gf: *3909
[18:04:00] Tommck: it's a process ID
[18:04:00] Beirdo: how would we know what process number it is on your machine? :)
[18:04:00] Tommck: different every time you run.
[18:04:00] gf: ok
[18:04:00] Tommck: but do what xris said
[18:04:00] gf: i killed it
[18:04:00] Tommck: Beirdo – he doesn't know unix
[18:04:00] Beirdo: ah
[18:04:00] gf: now allt hat remains is the grep mythbackend
[18:04:00] Beirdo: never mind then
[18:04:00] Beirdo: my apologies
[18:04:00] NightBird: I'm on a network, however since I only had one network jack, so I got a router... however I want to get an ip address from the main network... if I disable dhcp, that should work, right?
[18:04:00] Tommck: gf – the grep is not running now
[18:04:00] gf: it says it is
[18:05:00] Tommck: it will every time... because you're running it in the "ps -ef | GREP ..."
[18:05:00] gf: should i kill it?
[18:05:00] Tommck: no
[18:05:00] Tommck: it's not running
[18:05:00] gf: ok
[18:05:00] gf: how do i startup mythbackend
[18:06:00] Tommck: mythbackend -v all
[18:06:00] Tommck: the "-v all" makes it output verbose messages
[18:06:00] gf: woo
[18:06:00] gf: it works now
[18:07:00] gf: i wonder why
[18:07:00] ** Tommck thinks gf is brave for trying Myth without knowing Linux :) **
[18:07:00] gf: how do i edit the startup script that jarod uses
[18:07:00] Kyler (n=chatzill@12-210-184-195.client.insightBB.com) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.8/20050513]")
[18:07:00] gf: im no computer n00b, just a linux nub
[18:07:00] Tommck: right
[18:08:00] Tommck: you'll have to learn an editor :)
[18:08:00] gf: gedit :)
[18:08:00] xris: gf: hit control c
[18:08:00] Deepdelver: still no dutch people over here?
[18:08:00] gf: i hate vi
[18:08:00] Tommck: or copy it to a Windows box to edi tit
[18:08:00] Tommck: Is there a way to ignore someone in IRC?
[18:08:00] gf: isnt that going to kill the front end xris?
[18:08:00] xris: (to stop mythbackend running in your terminal)
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[18:08:00] xris: gf: not if you control-c the backend.
[18:08:00] xris: then, type: chkconfig --list | grep myth
[18:09:00] gf: as su?
[18:09:00] gf: er root
[18:09:00] xris: gf: sure
[18:09:00] djperegrine: is it possible to play .tivo files in mplayer ( or anything) anymore?
[18:09:00] gf: bash: chkconfig: command not found
[18:10:00] djperegrine: I get Encrypted VOB file! read DOCS/HTML/en/dvd.html when I try to play it
[18:11:00] gf: . /sbin/chkconfig --list | grep myth  ??
[18:11:00] Beirdo: so read the documentation?
[18:11:00] gf: ok, it gives me 0–6
[18:11:00] xris: gf: when you su'd, you probably forgot to add the – ( ` su – `)
[18:11:00] djperegrine: I did
[18:11:00] gf: 2345 are on
[18:12:00] djperegrine: its useless didn't tell me anything
[18:12:00] xris: gf: are 3 and 5 set to "on?
[18:12:00] xris: ok
[18:12:00] xris: that's correct, then
[18:12:00] djperegrine: http://mplayerhq.hu/~diego/DOCS/HTML/en/dvd.html
[18:12:00] gf: so if i reboot, mythbackend should load correctly?
[18:12:00] xris: that lists the "startup modes" of linux, and says that mythbackend is set up to auto-start in modes 2–5 (5 is the standard gui mode)
[18:12:00] Beirdo: djperegrine: I fail to see how this is a mythtv question :)
[18:12:00] xris: gf: give it a try.
[18:12:00] Filip: Deepdelver: did you see http://visualization.tudelft.nl/~paul/grabber/
[18:12:00] gf: ok
[18:13:00] dfgh: When running irw I get signals even without pressing buttons, as if my receiver is picking up ir from another source. If I cover the "eye" with my finger, nothing happens though :\
[18:13:00] djperegrine: well the watch video compent :P
[18:13:00] djperegrine: I'm trying to get my recorded tivo files in myth
[18:13:00] Beirdo: good luck. if mplayer won't play it, deal with mplayer people
[18:14:00] Beirdo: not sure what help any of us can be :)
[18:14:00] gf: can the pvr250 encode in mpeg4?
[18:14:00] djperegrine: righto
[18:14:00] xris: gf: no
[18:14:00] gf: those systm guys lied to me!
[18:14:00] Beirdo: I wish you luck though, it would be handy
[18:14:00] xris: gf: mpeg2
[18:14:00] gf: yep
[18:15:00] gf: ok xris, upon reboot
[18:15:00] gf: the same problem is happening
[18:15:00] xris: gf: afaik only the $$$ plextor usb ones can do mpeg4 directly.
[18:15:00] xris: gf: tail /var/log/mythtv/mythbackend.log
[18:16:00] xris: or did you do that already?
[18:16:00] xris: another thought... chkconfig --list | grep mysql
[18:17:00] gf: 2–5 are on
[18:17:00] gf: what does that tail command do
[18:17:00] Beirdo: man tail
[18:17:00] Beirdo: :)
[18:19:00] gf: the ps when i do it before killing it and after are tottally different
[18:19:00] Beirdo: of course
[18:19:00] xris: gf: tail shows the last N lines of a file
[18:19:00] Beirdo: every time you run a command, you get a new process id for that command
[18:19:00] gf: how do i make it autostart with mythbackend -v all
[18:19:00] gf: no like there is more info beirdo
[18:19:00] Beirdo: so if you kill it and restart it, it will have a new processid
[18:19:00] xris: gf: you don't want that. -v all just prints extra info to the console
[18:20:00] xris: gf: service mythbackend restart
[18:20:00] gf: ok
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[18:22:00] gf: now what
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[18:23:00] gf: do i want mythbackend to be run as a daemon?
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[18:23:00] mwtb: "SQL Error: Can't open file: 'program.MYI' (errno: 145)" Recoverable?
[18:25:00] xris: gf: yes
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[18:26:00] mwtb: Is program a schedule table?
[18:29:00] gf: aight i think i got it to work
[18:29:00] gf: i turned off the /sbin/chkconfig mythbackend
[18:30:00] gf: and put an autostart line of mythbackend -d
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[19:24:00] swim-zz: hey folks im unable to play dvd's (this is in knoppmyth) i noticed something about not xine possibley not having the ability to play encrytped dvds?
[19:26:00] GreyFoxx: it wont be able to if libdvdcss is not install
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[19:40:00] orlax: what does this mean: Warning at /var/www/html/mythweb/includes/init.php, line 50:
[19:40:00] orlax: session_start(): open(php_sessions/sess_a35d0d6ef9917957269a9a5312edc9ab, O_RDWR) failed: No such file or directory (2)?
[19:41:00] orlax: but mythweb works... only the error above
[19:41:00] GreyFoxx: create the director php_sessions and make sure it'sread/writable by the user the webserver runs as
[19:42:00] riksta (n=rick@84.93.243.170.broadband.plus.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[19:43:00] orlax: where do i have to create this dir
[19:45:00] orlax: found
[19:45:00] orlax: thx
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[20:00:00] ** NightBird is back from class **
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[20:15:00] hadees: GreyFoxx, you know of any other RF usb remotes beside niveus?
[20:15:00] Deepdelver: hello
[20:16:00] Deepdelver: can someone help me with my install of knoppmyth
[20:16:00] Deepdelver: i can get my xmltv working
[20:17:00] Krazylegz: You can or cannot get your xmltv working?
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[20:21:00] Chacabaou: How do I remove mythmusic and mythvideo completely from my system? I'm compiling manually from svn.
[20:24:00] kormoc: Chacabaou, rm mythmusic_files mythvideo_files
[20:25:00] Chacabaou: kormoc: I don't have those files...but the plugins still seem to be available in mythweb.
[20:26:00] kormoc: Chacabaou, you have to replace the *_files with the files you installed
[20:27:00] Chacabaou: kormoc: What do you mean?
[20:27:00] kormoc: Chacabaou, what you did the make install, it copyed files all over the system, you have to delete them.
[20:29:00] Chutt: wow, jarod posted
[20:29:00] Chacabaou: kormoc: Yeah...unfortunately, I already deleted the build-directories, so I could only use `locate`. Now I don't have anymore files matching to "mythmusic" or "mythvideo", but it still works in MythWeb.
[20:30:00] Chutt: mythweb doesn't have anything to do with the mythmusic + mythvideo plugins
[20:30:00] Chacabaou: kormoc: Maybe I have to delete some tables in the db. But which ones?
[20:30:00] Chacabaou: Chutt: Except that it shows the (working!) links to mythmusic and mythvideo at the top.
[20:30:00] Chutt: um
[20:30:00] Chutt: and that has nothing to do with the actual plugins
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[20:31:00] kormoc: Chacabaou, yeah, those will be there no matter if you have them installed or not
[20:31:00] Chacabaou: kormoc: Ok...but I want to remove the data (listed movies and music) from the db at least.
[20:31:00] Chutt: why?
[20:32:00] Chacabaou: It annoys me for some reason... ;)
[20:33:00] Chutt: there's no need to remove it
[20:33:00] Chacabaou: I just don't want it to waste space if I don't use these plugins at all.
[20:34:00] Chutt: yeah, compared to many gb of video, a few hundred k of database space is absolutely crucial to save
[20:35:00] Chacabaou: Gah...
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[20:36:00] laga: *snicker*
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[20:44:00] FITH: Heh, if I could only count the overtime I've worked because of cow-workers "innocent cleanups"  :)
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[20:47:00] Krazylegz: Cow-workers?
[20:48:00] Beirdo: MOOOOO!
[20:48:00] kormoc: cow-orkers
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[20:49:00] abarbaccia: hey all
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[20:50:00] FITH: Heh, from the BOFH files :) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/05/09/wante . . . tors_to_man/
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[21:26:00] gf: does anyone know how to change the name of my computer in linux?
[21:27:00] GreyFoxx: I just edit /etc/HOSTNAME on my box.
[21:27:00] opello: the name of your computer?
[21:27:00] gf: yea so on a network
[21:27:00] GreyFoxx: Your distro might store/read it from another location
[21:27:00] gf: its not seen as LOCALHOST
[21:28:00] gf: i'm using FC3
[21:28:00] gf: i'll try the hostname thingy
[21:28:00] opello: well, if you mean the 'netbios' name, it's in the smb.conf
[21:30:00] gf: what shoudl i look for in the smb.conf file
[21:30:00] opello: "netbios name = x"
[21:31:00] GreyFoxx: If that isn't specified it will default to the local system hostname
[21:31:00] opello: really? for me it generally just doesn't show up unless i set it
[21:32:00] mwtb: Hmm... MythWeb is not showing anything in the scheduled recordings list, but there is stuff in the recording schedules that should be there.
[21:33:00] GreyFoxx: opello: I've never set it on any machine, and it always defaults to the local hostname
[21:33:00] opello: when accessing a share on a windows machine, the host shows up as an empty string unless i set it there
[21:34:00] opello: but i do see it should take the hostname in the docs unless it's overridden
[21:34:00] gf: ok kde is a pos, i cant enter admin mode in the control center to edit stuff
[21:34:00] GreyFoxx: gf: Is that for a desktop machine or a dedicated myth machine ?
[21:35:00] gf: dedicated myth machine
[21:35:00] gf: i want to make a shared folder
[21:35:00] gf: and drop movies into it
[21:35:00] GreyFoxx: Then why would you use a pig of an desktop environment like KDE ? :)
[21:35:00] gf: trust me its not cuz i want to
[21:35:00] gf: its how the jarod guide went through
[21:35:00] gf: he said his guide was geared to kde
[21:35:00] GreyFoxx: You can change it if you don't want to use it :)
[21:35:00] GreyFoxx: You aren't stuck with it :)
[21:35:00] gf: i do prefer gnome
[21:36:00] GreyFoxx: even that is a waste
[21:36:00] gf: but i dont know how to get the autostart config to work
[21:36:00] gf: lol
[21:36:00] gf: i HATE those right click environments
[21:37:00] GreyFoxx: A good lightweight window manager such as icewm, or the miriad of others is perfect for a dedicated myth box. No reason to waste memory / cpu on the big bulky "fluff" if you're not using it
[21:37:00] gf: i just need something that will let me share files easily. ubuntu was easy to work with but myth didnt wnat to run on it very well
[21:38:00] gf: fc3 is the only one that i've been able to get myth to run on
[21:38:00] gf: and perform correctly
[21:38:00] GreyFoxx: the window manager really doesnm't control shares. It might help you edit the underlying files, but it's not required for the sharing itself
[21:38:00] Chutt: myth runs on ubuntu just fine
[21:38:00] gf: well i havent the slightest on how to configure it properly
[21:38:00] gf: so i gave up
[21:38:00] GreyFoxx: But having your stuff shared out is quite handy
[21:39:00] gf: that it is
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[21:42:00] mwtb: Scheduled recordings are in the record table, right?
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[21:58:00] Tanthrix: anyone know if there is a decent list of btaudio compatible cards out there?
[21:58:00] Tanthrix: I've been googling and not finding a whole heck of a lot..
[22:00:00] kormoc: Tanthrix, two cards of the same brand, one might work, one might not, it's a crapshoot
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[22:01:00] mala: Hi! Has anyone had any problems when trying to burn cd's in mythmusic. I can't burn audio or mp3 cd's.......
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[22:17:00] gf: omfg
[22:17:00] gf: what kind of friggin theme doesnt have an icon for the setup/utilities window....
[22:17:00] Beirdo: wyfl
[22:17:00] gf: is there a way to manually change the mythtv theme?
[22:18:00] gf: cuz the ui that im using right now doesnt give me an option to change to another theme
[22:18:00] beavis: just change it in your db
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[22:18:00] gf: how
[22:19:00] beavis: phpmyadmin for example
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[22:20:00] gf: could i delete the database and rebuild it?
[22:20:00] juski: gf: you could easily delete the database.. it's too damn easy to delete it
[22:20:00] juski: hi all :)
[22:22:00] juski: what's with the mythtv.org documentation being so far ahead of the releases?
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[22:23:00] gf: good call juski
[22:24:00] Chutt: how's it 'so far ahead'?
[22:24:00] juski: http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#ss22.22
[22:24:00] juski: and that code isn't in 0.18.1 is it?
[22:25:00] Chutt: no, but that does have a date on it
[22:26:00] juski: yeah I'd expect the documentation to have a date on it, but wouldn't quite expect the date on the doc to match the date on the release – if you catch my drift
[22:26:00] Chutt: why?
[22:27:00] Chutt: i mean, sure, if there was only one branch of development
[22:27:00] juski: well maybe I WOULD want it to be that way, but I know how things tend to happen
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[22:28:00] juski: my beef is that there's documentation for features that aren't in the released code – could be kinda confusing – but that's a lot better than it being the other way
[22:28:00] Chutt: seems like a pretty silly reason to whine
[22:29:00] juski: who's whining?
[22:29:00] Chutt: you?
[22:29:00] juski: er.. no
[22:29:00] juski: if you think that's whining...
[22:30:00] Chutt: complaining about little stuff counts as whining
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[22:30:00] juski: no – I just thought, when I first saw it, that there was a new release I'd somehow missed
[22:31:00] juski: it was only a question anyway – not a complaint
[22:31:00] juski: I rest my case
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[22:36:00] mala: does anyone know why the "burn audio cd" under mythmusic is transparent and can't be selected?
[22:36:00] Chutt: because it's not implemented
[22:37:00] mala: So this function hasn't been developed yet?
[22:37:00] Chutt: that's what 'not implemented' means, generally
[22:37:00] juski: probably not a good idea to implement it anyway... DMCA & all that
[22:37:00] mala: okey
[22:38:00] mala: thx, then I can stop trying to make it work
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[22:39:00] Julie_: hi, mala, may you release me my nick?
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[22:44:00] malaTG:
[22:45:00] euphobot_ (n=don@adsl-64-170-69-114.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #mythtv-users
[22:45:00] euphobot_: hi
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[22:57:00] euphobot_: I would like to see hdtv using this hardware: pchtv 3000, dell 2405fpw lcd monitor. how do I choose an nvidia vid card to support the monitor, pchdtv and software such as myth, v4l and gnome??
[22:58:00] terevos: euphobot_: have you been to http://byopvr.com/ ?
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[23:02:00] terevos: euphobot_: also – http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/fcmyth.php has a number of machines. he uses a pcHDTV HD-2000 with a GeForce FX 5200
[23:04:00] euphobot_: is the 5200 $$$
[23:05:00] juski: fx5200 is about the cheapest card (still made) you can buy
[23:05:00] euphobot_: on byopvr are you referring me to the how to?
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[23:06:00] euphobot_: cheapest? really? huh. I take it that that means the idct support needed is not great.
[23:07:00] juski: not at all, euphobot_
[23:07:00] juski: it just means it can't do fifteen gazillion megatexels per second
[23:09:00] Tanthrix: do the hauppuage pvr cards require patch cables or btaudio?
[23:09:00] euphobot_: oops dell ssays the 5200 doesn't work. The want (have not found out why) GeForce 6800 256mb, pr Quadro fx 1300 , 1400, 3400, or 4400.
[23:09:00] Tanthrix: someone said that the audio is embedded in the encoded mpeg2 stream so neither are necessary
[23:09:00] Tanthrix: is this correct?
[23:09:00] juski: Tanthrix: yes
[23:10:00] Tanthrix: now is that just for recordings or does that work for live tv as well?
[23:10:00] juski: the RCA audio sockets on the cards should be a giveaway
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[23:10:00] Tanthrix: heh, that does make sense
[23:10:00] Tanthrix: thanks for the help
[23:11:00] juski: live TV is actually just recorded TV which isn't stored for future use
[23:12:00] Tanthrix: so the card is constantly encoding mpeg2 and you simply view that stream instead of the "live tv" as with a standard tv card?
[23:12:00] juski: yep
[23:12:00] Tanthrix: I see
[23:13:00] juski: which is also why channel zapping isn't 'fast enough' for some people... but they miss the point of having a PVR IMHO
[23:13:00] Tanthrix: I was just going to ask if there was some kind of delay involved
[23:13:00] Tanthrix: and by chappen zapping you mean switching channels?
[23:13:00] Krazylegz: It's too much to ask to have instant channel changes AND PVR features?
[23:14:00] juski: live TV could be taken out of mythtv for all I care. I just don't watch it anymore
[23:14:00] Tanthrix: I always have been annoyed by slow channel changing on TVs, but I don't think I would use my card for anything other than recording
[23:14:00] juski: why live your life by a TV schedule? ;-)
[23:14:00] Tanthrix: live tv is actually the reason I'm going to setup a pvr, I'm so sick of the damn commercials and schedules
[23:15:00] Tanthrix: juski: which card you do use?
[23:15:00] juski: I use two DVB-T tuners
[23:15:00] Krazylegz: Well, I'm in front of the television a lot, so I like the PVR features, but I want to watch the show that's on.
[23:15:00] Krazylegz: I don't care if I miss them. They're not important enough to record, I'd just find something else to watch.
[23:15:00] Krazylegz: Besides, I don't have enough hard drive space to be recording lots of stuff.
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[23:16:00] juski: commercial flagging doesn't work so well (probably due to the DVB-T mpeg timing), but that's nothing a skip fwd button can't fix
[23:16:00] Tanthrix: I'm trying to keep this setup on the cheap hence I'm looking at the pvr150 mce
[23:16:00] juski: don't have enough hard drive space.. you can NEVER have enough!
[23:16:00] Tanthrix: hehe, no kidding
[23:16:00] Tanthrix: I'm up to 600 gigs or so now
[23:17:00] juski: I've got about 1.5TB in this room with me... lots of it is mirrored material though
[23:17:00] Tanthrix: various people have said they have had problems with the pvr150, so I'm being a bit hesitent
[23:17:00] juski: Tanthrix – the driver isn't what you could call 'stable' just yet. for some, it just works.. for others... it doesn't
[23:18:00] Tanthrix: so I've gathered
[23:18:00] Tanthrix: I'm pretty persistent though – as long as it's not an impossibility methinks I can get it running correctly
[23:18:00] juski: the user is the biggest and most fallible variable of all
[23:18:00] Tanthrix: true enough
[23:19:00] MrFluffy: I got a pair of pvr250's from ebay uk for just over 100
[23:19:00] Tanthrix: are there any other sub $70 cards that have pvr capability and stable drivers?
[23:19:00] juski: when was that MrFluffy – I wouldn't mind one
[23:19:00] Tanthrix: 100 euros / pounds or USD?
[23:20:00] juski:
[23:20:00] MrFluffy: pounds sorry, but the going rate for a pvr250 in the uk is about 90 quid a pop, so worth keeping an eye out
[23:20:00] juski: last one I saw went for more than the shop price – damn fools on ebay
[23:20:00] Tanthrix: that's about 170 dollars
[23:20:00] MrFluffy: i forgot the rate is terrible for the dollar at the moment...
[23:21:00] juski:
[23:21:00] Tanthrix: http://www.magicitx.com/modules.php?name=cata . . . oducts_id=42
[23:21:00] MrFluffy: juski: im also one of the livetv users... but theres good reason for it
[23:21:00] Tanthrix: 89 for an MCE 250
[23:21:00] juski: so you guys get the best deals – unless it's on Uk products lol
[23:21:00] MrFluffy: the frontends have no antenna connection availible, so the only way to watch livetv is via myth..
[23:22:00] MrFluffy: but currently my livetv performance sucks bigtime, but server rebuild this weekend and different fs on the video buffers etc
[23:22:00] juski: my wife is thinking about recording all her soap operas (yay!).. so she can watch them at 1.5x speed, but I'm reluctant to hand over the HDD space to such drivel
[23:23:00] MrFluffy: heh, ive told mine its ok, but if she wants to keep anything long term she has to record it to dvd or video..
[23:23:00] MrFluffy: her mum would freak if she turned up with a dvd of eastenders...
[23:23:00] juski: no TV is worth keeping IMHO
[23:24:00] juski: it's HDTV I'm NOT looking forward to in the UK... god knows what it's gonna do for open-source stuff like mythtv if it's all DRM'd
[23:24:00] MrFluffy: i would agree with stuff like soaps, but documentaries, things that inspire.. you know..
[23:25:00] MrFluffy: and pr0n, you should always keep pr0n
[23:25:00] juski: haha
[23:25:00] juski: i tell a lie actually – I do keep some things... just not forever
[23:26:00] juski: you'd think, wouldn't you – that with over 250 channels there'd always be something you wanna watch
[23:26:00] MrFluffy: your dvb card, you use it to pick up what was the old on digital feeds?
[23:26:00] juski: yeah – so I get 'council telly'
[23:26:00] MrFluffy: which card have you got?
[23:27:00] juski: Leadtek lr6650
[23:27:00] juski: it's the one window$ users can't make work, so sells dirt cheap on ebay
[23:27:00] MrFluffy: any major glitches?
[23:27:00] juski: only compiling the kernel to get it to work – that took a bit of getting my head around – being a total noob
[23:27:00] MrFluffy: thats just the chipset right though isnt it? what is the brand of the card?
[23:28:00] juski: cx88 chipset
[23:28:00] MrFluffy: ack no, sorry, misread google :)
[23:28:00] MrFluffy: I just bought a dvb stb today to feed into one of the bt848 cards in my backend server
[23:28:00] Tanthrix: I think I'm going to go with the pvr150 and hope for the best
[23:29:00] juski: conexant cx23880 video decoder, cx2272 demodulator
[23:29:00] MrFluffy: i was thinking i could remove the soundcard in it, and use the slot to put a dvb card instead...
[23:29:00] MrFluffy: since Ive ran out of pci slots now :)
[23:29:00] juski: tanthrix – there's one thing – it'll be stable one day :)
[23:29:00] Tanthrix: hehe
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[23:29:00] juski: and the more users who use it, the more it gets tested
[23:29:00] MrFluffy: you have to ask yourself how much your time is worth though Tanthrix
[23:30:00] Tanthrix: I've got time, what I don't have is money
[23:30:00] Rincewind (n=kjames@83.100.228.200) Quit (Client Quit)
[23:30:00] Tanthrix: well, that is to say, I'm cheap
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[23:30:00] Tanthrix: and I enjoy wrangling things into a working state – can learn quite a bit
[23:30:00] juski:
[23:31:00] juski: that hurt!
[23:31:00] Tr0gd0r: would mythtv run on a P1 200mhz with 128mb of ram? using a hardware encoder.
[23:31:00] Tanthrix: how does mythtv get its channel schedules / info?
[23:31:00] juski: that might be pushing your luck a bit, Tr0gd0r
[23:31:00] MrFluffy: hehe your at my total spend for my home cinema bar the screen there juski
[23:31:00] Tr0gd0r: well if the card is doing the encoding then the cpu shouldnt matter right?
[23:31:00] juski: Tanthrix – that depends on where you live
[23:31:00] MrFluffy: Tanthrix, it scrapes them off using xmltv and your channel scraper of choice
[23:32:00] Tanthrix: I'd like to check if I can get correct info for my cable service and area
[23:32:00] juski: Tr0dg0r – you might be able to record video, but you certainly won't be able to play back mpeg2 without hardware decoding too
[23:32:00] juski: .. and the GUI etc might run a bit er... slow lol
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[23:33:00] Tr0gd0r: does the backend decode the video, or does the frontend?
[23:33:00] juski: the frontend does
[23:33:00] Tr0gd0r: so i could run a frontend on my xbox
[23:33:00] juski: or the backend, if it's transcoding
[23:33:00] Tr0gd0r: and have the encoding done on that
[23:33:00] MrFluffy: yep, but the livetv would probally suck :)
[23:34:00] MrFluffy: <-- has two xbox frontends...
[23:34:00] Tr0gd0r: livetv, lol i can watch that directly from my tv
[23:34:00] juski: and the xbox is noisy
[23:34:00] Tr0gd0r: i dont need to go thru the p200mhz
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[23:34:00] MrFluffy: you can shut them up with some carefull stuff
[23:34:00] MrFluffy: different fans etc
[23:34:00] Tr0gd0r: my xbox isnt noisy
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[23:34:00] MrFluffy: noisiest thing in my quiet one is the hd
[23:34:00] juski: I tried cutting the metal grille in front of the fan.. just made it more noisy
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[23:34:00] juski: and they look like shite
[23:35:00] MrFluffy: you can get silent running fans for the case etc
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[23:35:00] MrFluffy: theyre a lot more family friendly that having a pc on every tv!
[23:36:00] MrFluffy: If i can get the livetv performance to not jerk, they'd be the perfect frontend for me, and im going to go over to fedora-xbox chasing that goal this w/e
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[23:36:00] juski: MrFluffy – you using XBMC or proper linux?
[23:36:00] MrFluffy: im using an anchient xebian install, that seems to be stuck in apt-get dependacy hell when i do a apt-get upgrade
[23:36:00] purplefrog: I am getting closer to upgrading my mythtv backend with a pchdtv card, but http://www.linuxis.us/linux/media/howto/pchdtv/ doesn't have info on how to use the 2.6.12 kernels, and implies that the instructions will be different. Any suggestions?
[23:37:00] MrFluffy: i havent tried the xbmc, can you watch livetv on it?
[23:37:00] juski: what's livetv again?
[23:37:00] awb4422: Is there a workaround to get by the apache 2 gig file limit?
[23:37:00] MrFluffy: its where i have two sky boxes in the loft and only cat5e to the xboxes as I live in france :)
[23:37:00] juski: no – I've tried it, but it sucked & needed a lot of fiddling – which I couldn't be bothered with
[23:38:00] juski: awb4422... yep there is – have a look at www.apache.org & read the docs
[23:38:00] Tanthrix: how can I check to see if I can get correct xmltv schedules in my area?
[23:39:00] MrFluffy: the us is zapit tv isnt it? if your there..
[23:39:00] juski: Tanthrix – you in the USA? Would have thought zap2it.com or whatever had all the schedules you'd ever need
[23:39:00] purplefrog: http://www.zap2it.com/index
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[23:39:00] Tanthrix: they've got it, thanks
[23:39:00] MrFluffy: juski, do you know the frequency range your dvb card will tune to? dvb signals are still on vhf here...
[23:40:00] juski: I think it goes all the way down to vhf... that's part of the DVB-T spec AFAIK
[23:41:00] purplefrog: better reference for zap2it: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Setup_MythTV#Zap . . . nt_.2F_XMLTV
[23:41:00] awb4422: juski: is there something specific this is called, ive already searched there and the mailing lists for 2 gig limit
[23:41:00] Beirdo: how about just reading the MythTV docs?
[23:42:00] Beirdo: silly people using Gentoo docs instead of the real thing
[23:42:00] awb4422: gentoo docs?
[23:42:00] Cromz: Beirdo, kick that dog... :>
[23:42:00] purplefrog: Hey, it was the first obvious thing that came up in google.
[23:42:00] awb4422: oh
[23:42:00] awb4422: lol nm
[23:42:00] Krazylegz: We should have a Google bot in here.
[23:42:00] Krazylegz: .g searchphrase
[23:42:00] Beirdo: no thanks
[23:43:00] Krazylegz: Then it could print the link to Google so that we could click on it or something.
[23:43:00] purplefrog: I have a browser. I can hit ^K.
[23:43:00] murray11 (n=murray11@207.200.24.217) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[23:43:00] Beirdo: or they can just go use a browser
[23:43:00] kormoc: Krazylegz, but it would cause a lot of spam
[23:43:00] MrFluffy: you could always get it to be really sarcastic and belittling before responding :)
[23:43:00] Krazylegz: No, I want my IM client to do everything!
[23:43:00] Krazylegz: Oh yeah, tons of SPAM. :-)
[23:43:00] purplefrog: Then use the emacs-irc elisp module.
[23:43:00] Cromz: Beirdo, see if you can get a movieflix.com mythtv plugin.. lol
[23:44:00] purplefrog: Hmm, when will mythtv have the ability to harvest RSS/torrent feeds?
[23:44:00] Beirdo: never
[23:44:00] djperegrine: um
[23:44:00] djperegrine: use Ipodder
[23:44:00] djperegrine: thats what I am doing
[23:44:00] Chutt: heh, someone edit that gentoo-wiki and get rid of the RenderAccel line
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[23:45:00] MrFluffy: theres a plugin isnt there to do the torrent stuff?
[23:45:00] djperegrine: I think so
[23:45:00] djperegrine: honestly I dunno but I think iPodder can use bittorent
[23:45:00] MrFluffy: it was on freshmeat ages back... i didnt look into it because im stuck on a k56 connection :(
[23:45:00] djperegrine: oh torrentocracy or whatever?
[23:46:00] juski: that's pushing things into slightly grey legal areas I would have thought
[23:46:00] djperegrine: no its not
[23:46:00] Beirdo: yes it is
[23:46:00] djperegrine: just using bittorent isn't errr 'shouldn't ' be illegal
[23:46:00] juski: it is since that US court ruling the other week
[23:46:00] purplefrog: well, if you subscribe to ILLEGAL torrents, duh. But I was thinking, Isn't Cringely going to be distributing video clips via torrent later this year?
[23:46:00] djperegrine: yea true
[23:46:00] laga: this is interesting. i've done a make distclean on my cvs checkout, ran ./configure, qmake mythtv.pro and everything, and my build errors out in various dirs in mythtv/programs/. when i cd to mythtv/programs/<program>, do a make clean and a make, it builds fine. that's very odd, ihmo
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[23:47:00] Tanthrix: well, I'm off
[23:47:00] laga: SVN checkout i mean. ;)
[23:47:00] Tanthrix: thanks for the help all
[23:48:00] Tanthrix (n=tanthrix@c-67-160-130-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit ()
[23:48:00] purplefrog: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050707.html NerdTV.
[23:48:00] purplefrog: If I remember correctly, you can also legally watch episodes of Frontline on-line.
[23:49:00] MrFluffy: i seen a pvr black box today, i bet the makers of that are thinking about torrents...
[23:49:00] juski: yes, but for every legal use...
[23:49:00] Beirdo: home time
[23:50:00] hadees (n=hadees@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/hadees) Quit (Connection timed out)
[23:50:00] juski: just trying to think like the legislators ;-)
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[23:51:00] MrFluffy: thats probally why its not mentioned on mythtv, if you take time to compile/install it, you obviously chose to do so and take the responsibility
[23:51:00] purplefrog: The best hope for making legislators decide in our favor is to show them a multitude of LEGAL uses for controversial technology that are supported by intellectual property owners.
[23:52:00] laga: there's no decision to be made. bittorrent is a legal content distribution technology.
[23:52:00] Chutt: which is used mainly for distributing content illegally
[23:53:00] MrFluffy: so was ftp before it
[23:53:00] MrFluffy: ftp ratio sites, i didnt hear anyone shouting about making ftp illegal..
[23:53:00] laga: Chutt: that's still not a reason to ban it.
[23:53:00] Chutt: riiight, and that was 99% of all ftp traffic?
[23:53:00] MrFluffy: probally, just nobody bothered to check :-)
[23:55:00] MrFluffy: them figures are somewhat suspect for me anyway, wasnt they from some company who makes web filtering appliances, and their angle was "buy our kit or you may have illegal stuff, and look 99% of bit torrents are illegal"
[23:55:00] djperegrine: "its like sueing boeing after 9/11 for making the airplanes"
[23:55:00] laga: we totally need some kind of DRM-BT.
[23:55:00] purplefrog: Iaga, as you grow older your capacity for doublethink will grow, and you will understand both sides of the argument, regardless of which side you personally support.
[23:56:00] Chutt: and of course, you have the author of bt publicly saying that he's completely for subverting copyrights
[23:56:00] Chutt: but hey, since people can transfer their home videos with it, it's gotta be ok!
[23:56:00] Chutt: :p
[23:57:00] Tr0gd0r (i=Tr0gd0r@dialup-4.242.3.88.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net) Quit ("[I was using TyCoBka] Version:[6.03] Webpage:[http://netruss.com/tycobka]")
[23:57:00] Cromz: Chutt: huh I dunno about seeeeing some of those..
[23:57:00] Cromz: lol
[23:57:00] purplefrog: I think the best example of torrents done legal and right is http://filerush.com/ . They don't allow links to rights-restricted stuff (like apple's exclusive star wars trailers).
[23:58:00] MrFluffy: the bbc opening up their stuff can only be good too..
[23:58:00] laga: purplefrog: it's probably just that our law makers are not as stupid as yours. ;)
[23:58:00] MrFluffy: im not abreast of if they used bt to distribute them yet...
[23:59:00] juski: IRC is being used for illegal file xfers now.. I wonder how long it'll take for DCC transfers to be demonised
[23:59:00] laga: i wonder if DCC is part of the official IRC RFC

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